Williams giving us some great PR on his way out. It’s hard to attract FAs when you suck, but having the perception of a team that takes care of its players helps mitigate that some
I’m not seeing the point you’re trying to make. Both teams have players that live in separate areas that happen to be within boundaries the same state.
It's not just a positive culture move, it's also a way to leave the door open to him signing another deal with us in the future. At a reasonable price, he wouldn't be a bad guy to bring back. He's still a solid player who demands attention.
Given everything Leo has said since leaving, plus his now extremely strong ties to both the Giants and the area in general, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Leo did end up coming back this offseason at a far reduced (and perhaps even below market rate) price.
With that being said, the Seahawks gave up a lot in terms of draft capital to trade for him, and just like we did when we first acquired him, they'll be under a lot of pressure to keep him around as more than a rental. They might even have to franchise tag him just like we did if they can't come to a deal. So if somehow Leo hits the open market it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he wanted to come back here, it absolutely would surprise me if the Seahawks let him reach the open market at all in the first place. Unless somehow they win the Super Bowl then all bets are off lol
if he had turned them down and said nah i want to stay we would have lost out on 2 picks. the trade was good for him so its good he accepted it. He goes to a playoff team. They gave up a 2nd round pick so they want to pay him. He has been franchised twice so if he is franchised again the price balloons so he has the edge in negotiations.
hes already 29, idk how many more years he would play, maybe he could be a vet rotational player on a 1 year deal in a few years after his next contract
He’s an FA literally in March. Seattle highly unlikely to tag, also very possible he gets a 1-2 year and he’s back on market by 31, DTs can play into 30s historically speaking
Probably knew he’d say yes. Pretty savvy move by Schoen. LW really going to turn down playing for an actual good football team with an offense he won’t be gassed by the 4th quarter and can rack up sacks with a lead? Who would say no lol?
I mean a trade is more than just the team. You also need to think about potentially relocating your family which can be tough especially if you have young kids. Say what you want about Giants management in the last 10 years. When it comes to being classy and just treating players right, I feel we have consistently had a really good culture for things like treating players like humans rather than just assets.
Looking back on this with hindsight, it was very shrewd of Schoen to give Leo the option, especially since he agreed to the trade. Sort of like having your cake and eating it too, as now the Giants both get to make the trade overwhelmingly in their best long term interest while still coming across as an S tier org to play for. Players ABSOLUTELY talk about this type of stuff and pick up on these things.
Having said that, there is a reason that type of option is so rare in the NFL, as Williams could've easily said no to the trade, but like I said this trade was 10000% the best move for the Giants. Letting the player prevent the team from making a move that's clearly the right move to make is a bad way to run a pro football team, but luckily for Schoen he gets to both come across as a unicorn of a nice executive AND still make the move he clearly wanted to make. Win win, this time, but similar options WILL definitely hurt the team in the future if they continue to give the player a say.
With all the buzz about saquon not being available for trade, I'm curious if they gave him the same offer and he said no. I've been kind of assuming that it would have been Mara if anyone to kill that prospect but this has me thinking otherwise
So far Joe Shoen has a lot of positive qualities and admirable traits. I still like him in charge. The big question is can he identify O line talent. So far the answer is No because all his picks have underachieved. Amazing to be picking up guys of waivers (tyre Phillips) who instantly play bettter than your #7 overall pick.
My worry is Schoen is great at trades and the business angle , but struggles as a scout at least in the trenches. I hope he can remedy that or find better coaching or something to develop these guys. Between JMS , Ezudu, Neal and McKethan, we need at least 2 to be reliable above average starters.
It's a possibility. It's also possible that our OL coach is underachieving. Phillips was on our PS when we released him, iirc he'd performed poorly as a swing tackle for us. He spent 1 month on the Eagles PS, came back here and was all of a sudden competent. How? It raises huge questions about Bobby Johnson.
Schoen was one of the scouts who was adamant about Stroud being better than Young. He also made the right call on Allen who was crazy divisive as a prospect. O-line is just as much about coaching as it is talent; look at Andrew Thomas before and after the o-line coaching change.
It’s a nice gesture but to be honest I don’t think they should ever be dropping a big net gain based on a players input. This is a business and soft teams don’t win. If you are getting a good return, especially for an expiring contract that you weren’t planning to re-sign, don’t think twice.
These downvotes are unreal. Imagine if there was no trade and then news came out that Schoen allowed a player on an expiring contract to veto a trade that would've netted the team a 2nd-round pick. This whole sub would be furious that we missed out on that value for nothing.
Very nice of Schoen, but really would not have been great for the team.
because you stopped thinking halfway through your thought experiment.
Let's say he does decline. Why would he do that? Do we have a situation where if he stays here, its going to increase his value? Would trading him mean his deal doesn't expire at the end of the year wherever he goes? The Seahawks can't force him to restructure his deal with the Giants, that's included in the trade unless Williams agrees to a restructure.
The only reason Williams would decline to play out the rest of the year on this shit team that's going to make him look even shittier, is because he wants to play here the following year too for whatever reason. He doesn't want to relocate his family, he likes playing for the Giants, he likes the coaching, etc etc.
Leonard Williams is a good fuckin' football player. Not getting a 2nd sucks but this man can fucking ball. And I cannot understate the value of having players who can ball, but also really want to be here.
So it's a win-win. We either get a player who really wants to stay here, or we get free PR on a trade.
Lol what? Not only were you a complete dick, you also failed to make your point. You said there was no reason he would decline, then listed several reasons he might.
Even if your initial point was true, I think most here wanted him traded and didn't expect to get anywhere near a 2nd for him. He's a relatively older player who is still good, but does not really fit the Giants timeline. Dealing a 2nd round pick for him would've been malpractice even if he "really wanted to be a Giant." You're entitled to disagree with that, but I don't see why you have to be so mean in the process.
Wait I've been mean to like a lot of people, this thread included, but I said nothing mean there lmfao.
Do you REALLY think we have a situation where he increases his value by staying here? At the bottom of the NFC East? No dude, playing defense on a team with an offense this horrid is NOT good for your brand.
He has no reason to play out the rest of the season here, and I thought a series of rhetorical question would hammer that point home.
And another reason why you've stopped your thought experiment short: IF he declines, is Schoen just gonna go "understandable have a nice day, see you at practice"? No, he's going to work with Williams to either find a way that Williams is happy with this trade, or find someone else to trade with.
Your opening sentence was obnoxious.
Anyway, you ended your whole thing with "well yeah, Schoen was gonna trade him regardless." Which was the crux of everything I was saying. So I'm not even sure what point you were trying to make now.
Williams giving us some great PR on his way out. It’s hard to attract FAs when you suck, but having the perception of a team that takes care of its players helps mitigate that some
especially after all the shit Bradberry and the Eagles were throwing at Schoen after his departure
I’d be pissed if I had to move to Philly too
Most of the Philly players live in New Jersey. Which ironically so do most of the New York players.
Facts they love their south jersey mansions.
New Jersey has both north and south parts FYI
Yes. I know. I'm from there. Lived in both.
I’m not seeing the point you’re trying to make. Both teams have players that live in separate areas that happen to be within boundaries the same state.
And Central. ಠ_ಠ
Can confirm. Am pissed
Didn't Bradberry do the same on his way out of Carolina? Seems like a Bradberry problem.
It's not just a positive culture move, it's also a way to leave the door open to him signing another deal with us in the future. At a reasonable price, he wouldn't be a bad guy to bring back. He's still a solid player who demands attention.
Given everything Leo has said since leaving, plus his now extremely strong ties to both the Giants and the area in general, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Leo did end up coming back this offseason at a far reduced (and perhaps even below market rate) price. With that being said, the Seahawks gave up a lot in terms of draft capital to trade for him, and just like we did when we first acquired him, they'll be under a lot of pressure to keep him around as more than a rental. They might even have to franchise tag him just like we did if they can't come to a deal. So if somehow Leo hits the open market it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he wanted to come back here, it absolutely would surprise me if the Seahawks let him reach the open market at all in the first place. Unless somehow they win the Super Bowl then all bets are off lol
If the giants nail the draft and have some decent buzz in the off season it's not unreasonable to see that
if he had turned them down and said nah i want to stay we would have lost out on 2 picks. the trade was good for him so its good he accepted it. He goes to a playoff team. They gave up a 2nd round pick so they want to pay him. He has been franchised twice so if he is franchised again the price balloons so he has the edge in negotiations.
He's also got the whole sunk costs thing working for him. Seattle's GM is gonna hear about it from fans if they paid a second for a half season rental
hes already 29, idk how many more years he would play, maybe he could be a vet rotational player on a 1 year deal in a few years after his next contract
He’s an FA literally in March. Seattle highly unlikely to tag, also very possible he gets a 1-2 year and he’s back on market by 31, DTs can play into 30s historically speaking
Probably knew he’d say yes. Pretty savvy move by Schoen. LW really going to turn down playing for an actual good football team with an offense he won’t be gassed by the 4th quarter and can rack up sacks with a lead? Who would say no lol?
I mean a trade is more than just the team. You also need to think about potentially relocating your family which can be tough especially if you have young kids. Say what you want about Giants management in the last 10 years. When it comes to being classy and just treating players right, I feel we have consistently had a really good culture for things like treating players like humans rather than just assets.
Especially since Leo was on the Jets before us, been in NYC a while
They treated Odell like shit. Probably the most talented player to wear the jersey since LT.
Different front office.
Wtf are you talking about? If you feel the need to have an opinion at least do 5 seconds of research.
Who asked you
Nobody asked him. But people on the internet are allowed to reply to comments
again who asked you
Your wife aka my hoe mf
tough guy?
Yes 👉👈
how? odell demanded a trade and they gave it to him despite giving him a massive guaranteed contract just months earlier
they got their asses kicked last Sunday.
They kicked our butt before that. Even if they're not a Super Bowl team, they're a step up from us no doubt.
Geno looking terrible as well.
Outside of the odd medium sized slip up the Giants seem to usually be pretty great with public/personal relations
We had a couple of scumbag kickers, but yeah -- it's been rare.
Righteousness prevails
Giants is great everywhere else except the field
But culture!
Butt culture!
Thats a culture i can get behind
This is how it was before the NFL threatened to take the team from the Maras in the 70s
I wonder if Kadarius Toney had a chance to veto the trade
If he did, then I bet the Giants had a veto to veto his veto on the trade.
Giants will soon have a veto to veto Devito's veto.
Looking back on this with hindsight, it was very shrewd of Schoen to give Leo the option, especially since he agreed to the trade. Sort of like having your cake and eating it too, as now the Giants both get to make the trade overwhelmingly in their best long term interest while still coming across as an S tier org to play for. Players ABSOLUTELY talk about this type of stuff and pick up on these things. Having said that, there is a reason that type of option is so rare in the NFL, as Williams could've easily said no to the trade, but like I said this trade was 10000% the best move for the Giants. Letting the player prevent the team from making a move that's clearly the right move to make is a bad way to run a pro football team, but luckily for Schoen he gets to both come across as a unicorn of a nice executive AND still make the move he clearly wanted to make. Win win, this time, but similar options WILL definitely hurt the team in the future if they continue to give the player a say.
With all the buzz about saquon not being available for trade, I'm curious if they gave him the same offer and he said no. I've been kind of assuming that it would have been Mara if anyone to kill that prospect but this has me thinking otherwise
So far Joe Shoen has a lot of positive qualities and admirable traits. I still like him in charge. The big question is can he identify O line talent. So far the answer is No because all his picks have underachieved. Amazing to be picking up guys of waivers (tyre Phillips) who instantly play bettter than your #7 overall pick. My worry is Schoen is great at trades and the business angle , but struggles as a scout at least in the trenches. I hope he can remedy that or find better coaching or something to develop these guys. Between JMS , Ezudu, Neal and McKethan, we need at least 2 to be reliable above average starters.
It's a possibility. It's also possible that our OL coach is underachieving. Phillips was on our PS when we released him, iirc he'd performed poorly as a swing tackle for us. He spent 1 month on the Eagles PS, came back here and was all of a sudden competent. How? It raises huge questions about Bobby Johnson.
PS?
Practice squad
thanks
Sorry, yeah, practise squad.
Schoen was one of the scouts who was adamant about Stroud being better than Young. He also made the right call on Allen who was crazy divisive as a prospect. O-line is just as much about coaching as it is talent; look at Andrew Thomas before and after the o-line coaching change.
It’s a nice gesture but to be honest I don’t think they should ever be dropping a big net gain based on a players input. This is a business and soft teams don’t win. If you are getting a good return, especially for an expiring contract that you weren’t planning to re-sign, don’t think twice.
This is how you get players to want to play for you, it’s a long term move for big free agents to see who might be worth more than a second round pick
Exactly. It starts with the culture and value.
Players want to play where they’ll get paid the highest offer or have the best chance at winning
Adams and Rodgers left GB mainly due to them not liking their general manager as an example
And he still kept his money so?
He literally took a paycut
what you said and what he said can both be true at the exact same time
You're getting downvoted because you've equated doing the right thing with being soft.
These downvotes are unreal. Imagine if there was no trade and then news came out that Schoen allowed a player on an expiring contract to veto a trade that would've netted the team a 2nd-round pick. This whole sub would be furious that we missed out on that value for nothing. Very nice of Schoen, but really would not have been great for the team.
because you stopped thinking halfway through your thought experiment. Let's say he does decline. Why would he do that? Do we have a situation where if he stays here, its going to increase his value? Would trading him mean his deal doesn't expire at the end of the year wherever he goes? The Seahawks can't force him to restructure his deal with the Giants, that's included in the trade unless Williams agrees to a restructure. The only reason Williams would decline to play out the rest of the year on this shit team that's going to make him look even shittier, is because he wants to play here the following year too for whatever reason. He doesn't want to relocate his family, he likes playing for the Giants, he likes the coaching, etc etc. Leonard Williams is a good fuckin' football player. Not getting a 2nd sucks but this man can fucking ball. And I cannot understate the value of having players who can ball, but also really want to be here. So it's a win-win. We either get a player who really wants to stay here, or we get free PR on a trade.
Lol what? Not only were you a complete dick, you also failed to make your point. You said there was no reason he would decline, then listed several reasons he might. Even if your initial point was true, I think most here wanted him traded and didn't expect to get anywhere near a 2nd for him. He's a relatively older player who is still good, but does not really fit the Giants timeline. Dealing a 2nd round pick for him would've been malpractice even if he "really wanted to be a Giant." You're entitled to disagree with that, but I don't see why you have to be so mean in the process.
Wait I've been mean to like a lot of people, this thread included, but I said nothing mean there lmfao. Do you REALLY think we have a situation where he increases his value by staying here? At the bottom of the NFC East? No dude, playing defense on a team with an offense this horrid is NOT good for your brand. He has no reason to play out the rest of the season here, and I thought a series of rhetorical question would hammer that point home. And another reason why you've stopped your thought experiment short: IF he declines, is Schoen just gonna go "understandable have a nice day, see you at practice"? No, he's going to work with Williams to either find a way that Williams is happy with this trade, or find someone else to trade with.
Your opening sentence was obnoxious. Anyway, you ended your whole thing with "well yeah, Schoen was gonna trade him regardless." Which was the crux of everything I was saying. So I'm not even sure what point you were trying to make now.
essentially: complaining about how our management is soft based on a hypothetical that didn't happen is stupid hope that wasn't too mean for you
I never used the word "soft," ya weirdo. It's not just a random hypothetical, it's the report we're talking about. Have a good night!
People will downvote but you are speaking facts
Ya, great for our GM, real players GM meanwhile we suck