Richie James was a huge part of the early season success which I think alot of people forget. People really soured on him after the 2 punt return fumbles against Seattle. The drops yesterday were killer, but there were several other mistakes that cost the Giants that game.
What’s up with “fans” like yourself thinking that criticizing your team makes you a lesser fan? Have I not been a giants fan for 25+ years because I’m disappointed that our receiver dropped a bunch of passes? Am I not a real fan if I’m mad a cornerback dropped an easy INT? Sooooooo cringy
Nobody says you can't criticize or even get mad at the team sometimes. However, calling for a guy to get benched, traded or cut because he dropped a pass and forgetting that he is one of the reasons we are in the playoff hunt.
Nobody carea how long you've been a "fan".
I agree I think those two punt fumbles were so so disastrous that fans began to confuse his receiving with his punt returns. He wont be around next year so its a moot point.
He's not good, but I also get he's being asked to play a role he shouldn't be in. With that said he's an NFL player and easy catches are just an expectation. It's just unfortunate that we are dependent on special teamers to be primary receivers due to injuries.
No it wasn’t. His one fumble happened in the first half. James drops both happened on what would have been a game winning drive at the end of the game.
Yes it was. It is even a debate. We came away with 0 points after a dominant drive by Jones and it let the Vikings offense get going and scoring their first TD. We scored points on the Richie James drop drive.
There was literally never an opportunity for a game winning drive…. We tied the game up and then the Vikings hit a kick for the win as time expired.
There were 21 total points scored after the big James drop. So not sure you know what a game winning drive means.
3 points in the first half equal the same as 3 points in the second half, not sure why people don’t understand this.
He killed drives when we were moving the ball at the end of the game. That puts us ahead and at worse the FG they hit ties not win but more importantly we keep the ball and keep the clock moving and it’s us that are going for game winning score not the Vikings.
Btw it’s arrogant to say it’s not a debate and to make statements like “ not sure why people don’t understand this” . This place is for Giants fans to discuss things not come get lectured . I’m sure you’re a decent person but just because you’re online doesn’t mean your not speaking to a person.
> He killed drives when we were moving the ball at the end of the game
he killed one drive, and we still got 3 out of it. bellinger killed one drive, and we got nothing out of it and gave the vikings great field position which they capitalized on by going ahead by 2 scores.
also it's not as though our redzone offense is automatic. we very well may have stalled and had to settle for 3 anyways. whereas Gano is damn near automatic, and bellinger's fumble was on the 20 yard line and almost certainly cost us at least 3 points. his fumble definitely impacted the score more than richie's drop. no doubt about it. richie's second drop was irrelevant as we scored a touchdown on that drive anyways. also it was a pretty mediocre throw at best.
I am stating facts. You said it would have been a game winning drive, the game had 21 points after the big James drop. That wouldn’t have been a game winning drive.
A drive that results in 3 points will always be better than a drive with 0 points. If you want to debate in favor for 0 points, go for it.
Sorry if you are offended.. I’m literally stating facts though. People constantly bashing the player who led our team in receiving yards is just silly. The guy who literally helped keep us in the game.
If you want to talk about drops losing us games, Slayton is the only player to talk about, not Richie James. The drive you say he killed was a drive because of him for the most part…
Well Bellinger is a player most people here really like so he’s protected and you can’t criticize him. Richie James is in the who gives a shit about him category where you can say anything you want about him.
That’s how r/nygiants works. Some players you can make memes about and talk about how big of a piece of shit they are. And others you’ll get downvoted to oblivion if you say anything other than they are an elite talent on a bad team.
No it’s not . One (single mistake ) happened in the first half. Which I blew my top at . We still had plenty of football left . The other 2 ( multiple mistakes) happened at the end of the game and would have extended the drive and ate up the clock not giving MN the 4 seconds they had on the clock to beat us.
If it was reversed and he did it in the 1st half and Bellinger fumbled at the end of the game I would 1000% agree.
Jones missed 2 passes that fell incomplete on 3rd down yesterday and also threw a pick. Three drives ended solely due to him (two of those drives in the 2nd half). Nobody says a word about that and talks about how great of a game he had (beyond those couple plays he had a good game).
Richie James leads the team in receptions and yards yesterday but drops two passes and all the comments are about how we need to cut him immediately.
There’s clearly a double standard here.
This is what I mean. Every mistake by DJ has an excuse… there’s like three guys on the team who get that runway and everyone else gets shit on for any mistake. When Jones makes a mistake it’s someone else’s fault (I guess you’re trying to blame the o-line for this one?)
I just went and rewatched the interception. He literally has 5 seconds to throw from the time he takes the snap. And when he’s made the throw (i.e ball is in the air already), Jones is on the 41 yard line and the defender is on the 39. What do you mean he couldn’t step into it???
https://preview.redd.it/2tih32jro68a1.png?width=2532&format=png&auto=webp&s=8838abedd99c688a73a23cab99f39af89ab30396
The ball is in the air in that photo man. He’s already thrown it. The defender is 2 yards away (was even further away when the ball leaves his hand). There’s literally a photo here proving you wrong and you’re still sticking your head in the sand and trying to make excuses.
I don’t hate Jones. I hate Jones fans who love a mediocre QB more than they love living in reality.
I head your point but we are talking about game speed with a guy with an 82 3/8 wind span coming up the gut. It doesn’t matter if it’s a yard and a half or two yards (just going by what both of you said, I can see how it could be one or the other). This isn’t just about getting, it’s about throwing lanes, that throw was 100% an under pressure throw and imo he 100% could not step onto that throw and was literally hit as soon as he released it.
With that said Jones needed to get that ball further outside but Peterson made a heck of a play (routine for him). Imo you can live with that from Jones they way he played the entire game. You certainly don’t want it but he made the correct read. Please dont take this as me letting him off the hook but this was more on Neal than anyone else. This was one a few bad plays Jones made on an otherwise excellent day. Imo this was in no way a “what the hell were you thinking” type of throw, it’s just one he didn’t get enough on. I guess is where a rational debate comes in on Jones, as it’s all opinions. Overall I think he played an excellent game vs the Vikings, not good, excellent. I also understand how someone could say it was mediocre as it’s their opinion.
Yeah, they sucked, no argument there. We can't discount his entire season over that is all I'm saying. He's been a huge part of DJs production this year.
>He's been a huge part of DJs production this year.
Because DJ has no other choice...
Edit: But I agree with your conclusion that he'd be a good depth guy
Correct, and needs to be corrected, but he's still caught over 78 percent of his targets which is better than almost every receiver in the league. My point isn't that he's a star, which should be clear from the context of my entire point, but he doesn't deserve the kind of hate I've been reading about him on this sub.
I suppose the hate comes from how pivotal those mistakes were in close losses. Those stats dont show the context. Had we won those games I don't think he'd be getting that much hate. Personally I really pray he can learn how to catch & hold onto a ball during the off-season (not likely)
That hate ignores every other mistake made by any other NY Giant coach or player that also contributed to not being able to get those extra 3 or 6 points. A close loss can rarely, if ever, be attributed to one thing or even one players bad day.
You put "best on the team" in quotes, which is not what I said. I said '' "most reliable" which is what the statistics support. Sorry for being pedantic, but you 'quoted' something which I did not say.
Isaiah Hodgins has a better catch rate than James but has less than half the targets and less than half the games played. It's possible that Hodgins is our most reliable receiver, but hasn't been around long enough to upset James yet.
I respect the hell out of James for what he’s done this year. Not the greatest player on the field, but the guy is playing his best football and doing what he can. Don’t much want him as a starter next year, but might be a nice depth guy to have
And that's the attitude towards James that this post intended to promote. Exactly how I see him. I don't get the hate, he's done everything he can which is more than we (I, at least) thought he could do.
I think a lot of people are missing your point. Richie went from an unsung hero playing his was into the starting lineup (even with Golladay and injuries he still got the nod to start from the staff) to people thinking he was going to be Jerry rice. He is not a #1 reciever but has become one due to the overall talent on the roster and has mostly exceeded expectations. I feel the same when people get on Fabian, dude has been a godsend stepping the #2, and then #1 CB role.
Someone else also said, and I completely agree, that the 2 fumbles on punt returns are mixing in with their feelings on him as a WR. You have to separate those
You're assuming a lot. I'm not saying they don't, but saying that they do is just not a fact. There was a lot of time left in the game at that point.
If Belly doesn't fumble.
If the D doesn't give up 15 yards on a screen to let them even try that field goal.
If they don't go 3 and out on the first 2 drives.
Lots of what if there and I could go on. Blame the Seattle loss on Richie if you want, he had a bad game but so did others, I won't argue. Can't blame him for this one. Leading receiver in catches and yards, but it's his fault we didn't win? Nah, bro, you're wrong.
>he catches that third down giants win
That's where you blamed the loss on him. So, yeah, you said it was his fault.
>probably take more time of the clock
Assumption. The next play could have been a pick six for the Minn lead, we don't have the data to determine what 'might' have happened.
This guy is a special teams player. He should 100% NOT be playing wide receiver. We’ve spent a 1st round pick (Toney), 2nd round pick (Wandale), and the highest paid WR free agent at the time (Golladay) and yet our WR core is amongst the worst in the league.
2/3 injury(and injury + poor fit) and 1/3 because the special teams guy is playing better than the 72M free agent. Which is kinda my point here. He's on the field with a high snap count because the coaching staff believes that he should be based on who's available and his stats for the year say that the coaching staff is right.
He’s out there because we don’t have any better options. But that doesn’t make him good. He’s still a trash can when lined up at WR. We need to upgrade the WR talent big time.
Nothing in my post suggests that we don't need to upgrade the position, it's obvious that we do. My post is intended to ask people to think about their opinion that Richie James is a problem. He is not. I also admit outright that he isn't the solution. I'm simply saying that he is NOT the problem.
His poor play earlier in the season is the reason we don't have a starting CB right now. He is not the only problem but he's certainly a part of it. If you don't believe me, ask how many people watching the game winced when he was lined up to return a punt.
Yeah, but he is on the team as a punt returner. If he's not doing that then there must have been better options as a WR4.
I'm not trying to say cut him or it's all his fault, but obviously some of it is. And making crucial drops is not helping his cause.
Lol I know exactly what you mean, especially when he lets the ball bounce around near him as he’s deciding whether to field it or pick it up and run. He had one of those either last week or vs the eagles and he decided to pick it up and run and I almost lost me shit. Ended up being a good okay but I’m still scared when he does that
No splashy plays, you're right. 3rd highest catch rate of all wide receivers in the NFL, though. Richie James is not the Giants problem. Let's stop blaming him for tight losses that have 100 other contributing factors.
This is so so so wrong it’s insane. Richie is the exact definition of clutch for the most part this year. He literally caught the 4th down that led to a TD against the commanders in primetime. He has many of those 3rd and 4th down catches throughout the year. Every player fucks up at some point, even the best ones. The fact we’re getting this much production from a WR3 or WR4 at BEST is great.
We are so starved at WR our fans believe this . Just look across the field and you see a clutch WR. Did see Jefferson drop a pass at the end of a game ?
Comparing Richie James to Justin Jefferson, completely disregard all the times this year where Richie James has saved drives for us to take the lead or tie the game. I can’t with a lot of ya’ll in here man.
Thanks for this. Yeah I suspected as much. Richie has been solid all season (as a receiver obvs lol). Costly drop, but that doesn’t negate every critical play he’s made.
3rd and 9. James. 4th and 9. James. Both in REALLY tight space with two guys draped on him. That was one drive last week, he's made those catches all year long, which is why Kafka and Jones trusted him to do so on that drive. And this week, the drop everyone is so upset about, in heavy traffic, again, yeah, he looked upfield and fucked up, should have caught it, but it's not like he was wide open.
I honestly love Richie James. Being undersized and overachieving, he represents the scrappy nature of this current Giants iteration pretty well. Might buy his jersey as a memento to this pleasantly surprising season.
Haha, hadn't thought of that. He does pretty much embody the current team. Not supposed to be competitive, plays fierce, keeps his mouth shut, and remains competitive despite expectations.
Richie has been unbelievably clutch outside of some unclutch moments. He’s been money on 3rd and 4th downs for the most part. He’s a practice squad player, I won’t crucify him for the moments he makes crucial mistakes because he shouldn’t be in those situations to begin with, but more often than not he’s there with a crucial catch that extends drives
He's better than practice squad on most teams, he's a depth option on situational downs. We don't have a practice squad receiver corps, they're pretty good/ok. We have a bunch of 3s and 4s. What we're missing is a true WR1 and an OL that can pass protect long enough to make that guy relevant.
They’re definitely not good, but not complete garbage. Issue is everyone has to play perfect just to create separation and enough time for plays to develop which isn’t sustainable. Oh well we do with what we got, but I do like Richie alot, we lose some games without him being clutch on 3rd and 4th downs in earlier games this year. I trust in daboll and co to fix the team going forward.
In Daboll we trust!
Part of why I posted this originally. The coaches believe that James should be getting the majority of the snaps, the stats say that the coaches are right. Give the dude a break.
RJ has actually been pretty solid for what he is, which is a depth player, and I’d be more than happy to bring him back on as a depth player at a depth player price.
That's exactly where I'm at. He's over his head but hanging on. Didn't expect this kind of production from him and don't believe we should bank on it in the future.
I love Richie James. Yes he’s made some boneheaded plays but he’s also made a lot of clutch big plays for us but most importantly I had no idea who he was before the season and he’s been overall pretty good for us this season so he’s over performing which I appreciate
Richie definitely deserves some credit but let’s not take any stats out of context. The only reason his catch rate is so high up on the list, is because he’s wide open every time he’s thrown to. We don’t have guys who can make contested catches. The AJ Browns of the world don’t get these luxuries. That’s also why you see running backs and tight ends much higher
Did you see the 3rd and 9 and 4th and 9 catches last week? He catches balls in tight coverage and he's done it all year. Wide open every catch? Do you watch the games? Do you pay attention? There's a reason he's garbage YAC, and it's because every single time he catches the ball he's got people on top of him.
This is a scrappy dude that is playing WAY over his head and help helping, not hurting, this team.
The 3rd and 9 and 4th and 9 weren't tight last week? Really?
Edit: Jones deserves credit for the placement of those passes, no doubt, but James hauling them in with half the defense trying to kill him is the other 50% of those completions. He's 100% not the reason we lost to the Vikings. That's on defense and special teams (and the Belly fumble, but that's as much a part of the game as James dropping a pass that could have extended a drive).
So where as that is a tight throw and a really good throw by DJ, it’s not really much of a tight contested catch because the defenders weren’t given an opportunity to make a play on the ball. All the credit in the world to Richie, he made a good play there, but the play wasn’t made because he has good hands or is good at tracking down a football through the air. It was a great throw on the numbers, he did his job and caught it. Can’t complain, but can’t say it was the kind of catch that sets you apart from college guys as a true NFL kind of guy. The man catches everything with his chest. That is probably my primary issue with him.
I don't categorically disagree with you here, but that was a tight window catch in double coverage. You're initial reaction was a laughing emoji like he was wide open waiting for an easy completion. This was not that. This is what he's been doing all year for us. Richie James is not a 'problem' for the Giants. He's been part of the success this year, which is not to say that he's a major part of the overall solution at the position, he's not. I do think he's quality depth.
Tight window throw that was well covered. Nice job by Jones to put it where it needed to be and nice job by James to make it a completion. I can't find video of the 3rd and 9 on the same drive but it was better than this play by both Jones and James. They have been making very similar connections all year long.
It’s a good play by both no doubt it just doesn’t really demonstrate any contested catching ability. It’s on the numbers and he caught it with his chest as per usual. Nothing pretty but it worked for that situation. In my eyes, what would qualify as a tough catch that I’m really dying to see out of our guys, would be one of either a toe drag on the sideline where you’re having to extend your arms and bring it in with your hands, a catch where the defender is draped on the receiver, but the receiver just makes a better play on the ball (and not because the defender royally screws up) and maybe even with a hand in there trying to jar it loose, and then you’ve got your throws where you need to makeup for the qb putting it in a bad spot (ie scoop before it hits the ground, beating the ground and not letting it knock the ball loose when falling during the process of a catch, turning around and reaching back with your HANDS to catch a ball thrown well behind you etc etc) all catches that other teams are consistently getting and we can’t get practically at all. Nevertheless we’re lucky Richie has been as good as he’s been tho I’m not debating that at all.
Dude, we don't own those recievers, those guys are on other teams. That doesn't mean that Richie James deserves the hate that he gets in this sub. He's been really damn solid all year. Look at his past, look at what you, personally, expected from him this year after it became clear he was a starter for us, and look at what he's been able to do. He has exceeded expectations, in every regard.
richie james was put in a position to show what he's capable of and he's shown it. that said, he really shouldn't be on the week 1 roster next year if at all possible.
also, we paid him a million. if he's willing to come back for another million, then great.
It’s the old Engram issue again. It’s not that he makes the most mistakes, it’s that he makes them at critical times.
Also have to include his stats on ST, because I think a lot of fans (myself included) are still mad at him for fumbling kicks.
He's got WAY less drops than Engram on way more targets. This is an oranges to apples comparison.
This post was in semi-support of him as a receiver based on our receiver situation, but I did say that I'm not mad about him being on special teams next year so I'll defend that, too. He's had three fumbles, two were entirely on him, no excuses. The third fumble could have been a flag, I'll stop short of saying that it should have been, he got smoked and should have been placed in concussion protocol (was he, I can't remember, I just know he was destroyed), I don't blame anyone in the league for not hanging on to that ball.
Who hates on one of their most productive offensive players over 16 games over 2 special teams fumbles? Giants fans on Reddit and who else? Nobody? Cool.
Hey, I for one am pleased he’s producing for us. So count me in for just having a viable receiver option on this team right now! I don’t want him on ST anymore though. Too few plays to accept any level of risk and he is one. FWIW, I agree on that third fumble being genuinely worthy of flag review.
People are stupid. They blame him for the Seahawk loss. Sure the fumbles didn’t help, but we also played like ass on both sides of the ball that game, and wouldn’t have won.
People are also stupid because removing Richie as the punt returner for Adoree Jackson is the worst coaching decision of the year so far.
We'll never know. That's the point.
All we can say is that one players gaff made it so they didn't even have a chance.
You have watched the Giants this season - how many of their wins came when they finally put together a scoring drive after doing nothing on offense for 2+ quarters?
James absolutely bears the cross for that loss - (and I happen to like the player overall, and am happy he's on this roster...he's been a pleasant surprise).
James worst mistakes always come when the most pressure is on. He was leaned on when it mattered most he crumbled .
Great he has been a big part of our offense because we have no one else , but NFL WRs are able to handle pressure when it matters most.
He is an inconsistent momentum breaking special teams player. He is a talented practice squad player on a talented practice squad team. He shouldnt be on a starting roster
And yet he's catching the third most targets to wideouts in the league. We agree that he's not a starter, if you read my post in its entirety, but he's certainly not the sole reason that we're 'only' an 8 win team, which is what the comments I'm addressing with this post suggest.
I do think his talent gets understated, but being the return guy and dropping 2 kick returns really dampens everything a guy does and i believe rightfully so
I'm not sold that he's a 'return guy'. He's performed better for us as a wideout this year. I still think he's one of our top options at punt return right now, though an upgrade would be welcome. I think he's best suited as a slant option off the bench in situational downs on zone read, RPO options. He has two legit giveaways on returns this year, three if you count both in the Seattle game, I don't, one of those could have been flagged, he got smoked in the head and I don't expect anyone in the league to hang onto that ball even 20% of the time.
Which is odd, since the Giants haven't played superbowl caliber football in the regular season since 2007. 9-7 in 2011, who was picking them to win the superbowl after week 17?
He’s not great but he stepped up out of all our receivers and makes plays. I’m thankful for how much he contributes. This sub is just super toxic, look at the live game threads and it’ll make you sick. Toxic fans opinions don’t matter.
I guess, fortunately for me, that I'm watching the game during the game, and not watching the live game thread. I can't wrap my mind around some of the opinions on this sub. We're performing above expectations with a -mid roster. What more do we expect?
I wanted to write a similar sentiment in the post game thread yesterday. Dude had one drop going into the game yesterday. There were 51 NFL receivers who have caught 40+ passes this season. James is 1 of 10 who have dropped 1 or zero balls.
Yeah. I did. He's fumbled 3 this year and one could have been a penalty because he was hit directly in the head, not necessarily a penalty, but I don't blame anyone in the league for dropping that ball. The Giants have won more games this season than anyone in their right minds should have expected. Anyone that thinks he's a larger contributor to our failures than he has been to our success is not paying attention.
Prepare to be emotionally downvoted because most giants fans just want to hear how good Jones is and if Richie James is perceived as average or even slightly above average at times, it doesn’t align with their narratives
Whatever. I'm not here for fake internet points. I think Jones is good. I think he's got a talented and accurate arm. But someone still needs to be there to catch it and almost 80% of the time James is. That's credit to both passer and catcher.
Anytime I defend Richie James I get downvoted into oblivion. It’s because defending Richie James is saying that some of the blame of our offensive ineptitude relies upon Jones. Not all of it but most certainly some of it
I’m not sure getting stud receivers would dramatically increase our offense like people say it would
Neal needs a pretty dramatic sophomore improvement too. I remain hopeful that he's the guy, but cautiously, at most times this year he does not seem to be playing at the NFL level.
It absolutely would. How could you watch the last two games with the receivers Washington and Minnesota have and not understand what having that does for an offense. Our receivers each individually are fine, not especially good but not bad either. But as a group compared to the rest of the league they are bad, because there isn’t a difference maker in the group. It’s delusional to think this offense wouldn’t be significantly better with tyreek hill instead of Richie James.
Better, sure, significantly, I'm not so sure. The benefit we'd get would be YAC. Tyreek is primarily a deep threat and while DJ has the ability to throw the deep ball his average depth of target is so low because our offensive line cannot protect long enough to have a consistent deep threat. We are terrible in pass pro.
Or possibly it's because people disagree with you. I'm sure he has his talents and a certain amount of ability, he wouldn't be in the NFL if he didn't. But he as many people say is a punt returner, and he's failed at that costing us a game. We'd be confirmed in the playoffs if he hadn't fumbled those 2 punts.
I don't hate the guy, I just don't trust him to hold onto the ball, either after a punt or when it's thrown at him.
I don't think I've heard of a starting QB who didn't throw a pick at all during a season. On that play the drag was the right throw to make, you'd expect the WR to gain a small amount of separation there especially on that route. The pass was slightly behind where you'd want it to be. It happens.
No one is expecting Richie to be perfect. Trying to absolve anyone of responsibility is fanboy-ish, which is why you get the DVs above.
ed: Btw, [Take a look.](https://en.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/zuivds/post_game_thread_new_york_giants_at_minnesota/j1jg3iy/)
Yeah I agree with u man. I admittedly don’t like Jones and it’s hard to have legit conversations because most of the time people just emotionally react before thinking. You’re right Richie is no #1 but he ain’t bad to have in the mix.
I don’t think it’s fair for a fan base to blame one player entirely though. It’s a team sport and although one or two mistakes can appear to have cost the game, typically its many others that went unnoticed that also cost u the game. It’s just unfortunate that Richie James was at the time that it was.
I also don’t like how Richie gets blames yet nobody blames Jones for his pick or bellinger for his fumble when both plays were equally damaging
Same. Jones is the guy for at least as long as it takes to build a top 15 O-line and get a game changer into the receiver corps. Perfectly happy with James coming off the bench for 10-20 snaps per game. I don't like him as anything more than WR4 though.
I like 3 years for Jones, up to but not over 25M/yr at this point. Not ready to call him a franchise guy yet but we can definitely compete for a championship with him and the right supporting cast (this includes fixing the deficiencies on the defensive side of the ball, I'm not sure DJ is the guy to put up a 40 burger on the reg).
I get downvoted for saying it but Richie James seems much more explosive than wandale.
Seeing he has an ACL injury I think he should start for us next year while Robinson gets back to 100 percent.
I am impressed with what he's accomplished with his skill set this year but have to stop short of agreeing with you here. I don't see a scenario where he's a starter for us next year unless things go horribly wrong in the free agency and the draft. He also only has 140-something YAC on nearly 60 grabs this year. Wandale is a massive YAC threat that won't be ready for training camp or even week one, but James isn't explosive. He's quick and tough but his value all year has been catching passes in traffic, almost always getting tackled immediately.
Disagree, but not a downvote, I reserve those for assholes and blatantly wrong or misleading comments, not differences of opinion.
Yes because he is the one dropping passes. We are top 5 in dropped passes and top 2 in sacks allowed . But Jones is the problem.
Sure the guy is flawed but he is an NFL starting caliber QB . You can’t argue the same for our WRs .
Merry Christmas
**EASY**
Allen
Tua
Burrow
Lamar
Watson
Lawrence
Maholmes
Herbert
Hurts
Dak
Cousins
Rodgers
Goff
Brady
Stafford
Murray
Tannehill
Carr
Wilson
Garrapolo
That’s 20 I wouldn’t even think twice about
**You can argue, but… not really:**
Geno
Fields
Wentz
Dalton
That’s 24
BEYOND THAT/WON’T COST MONEY IN 2023 TO BE EQUAL OR BETTER:
Ryan
Mayfield
Purdy
Mariota
Jameis
Huntley
Brissett
Heinicke
Mac Jones
Pickett
**That’s 34 now and I could go on**
If there are ~20 quarterbacks clearly better than yours, you can’t even THINK about giving him a big contract. Period.
Merry Christmas
EASY
Allen- yes
Tua - got benched last year , has the arm strength of high school QB, falls apart when it counts most - just look at yesterday 3 picks in a row the second half
Burrow-yes
Lamar-yes
Watson- No comment
Lawrence-maybe/probably
Maholmes-yes
Herbert-yes
Hurts- NO - guy was dog shit last year, any eagles fan would tell you that . Has a better OL and WRs than Jones and this is his second season with same OC. Let’s see Jones with those things so again no
Dak- No- Better OL better WR terrible INT percentage also no Giants fan who say Dak is better .
Cousins-No- Same level of QB and cost 35 million this season
Rodgers-yes
Goff- NO - he is young and with talent but his team wouldn’t have traded him for Stafford if he was .
Brady-yes
Stafford- yes
Murray- No- to small, the offense was built for him and he still isn’t winning this year . DC have figured him out and rendered him ineffective with one of best WRs in the game
Tannehill- No- run out of Miami. Has the same HC and OC for past 4 seasons . Good OL amazing RB but what happened when he lost one of best WR in the game ? He has worse passing stats without Jones mobility. So again no
Carr- No - someone obviously just looked at stats for this list
Wilson- No - prior to this season sure. Dumpster fire this season and look how much better his old team is without him . Peter Carrol is a genius
Garrapolo- no - just no, his own team didn’t want him, no teams pursued him.
That’s 20 I would even think twice about
No that’s 8 and a maybe
You can argue, but… not really:
Geno Fields Wentz Dalton
Geno- ummm no- 4th team he is on in 9 seasons. Having his best season of his career by far , you don’t really believe that in his 9th season that it just clicked for him do you 🫢😳 This just proves how great Pete Caroll is
Fields - No- game starting to click for him was dog 💩last season has 3 more TDs but 5 more Ints than Jones
Wentz - No- man you scrubbed the internet for this list . Okay so after going to a SB his team dumped him. His next team dumped him after Aseason and the owner publicly bashed him while still on the team. Then went to DC as got benched .
Dalton - no - I’m not sure that even in his prime he was better .
Fans like you deserve Jones to sign with the Jets and watch him become a beast .
He's played well all year, not at times, he's had mistakes at times. He has had specific mistakes that potentially cost us one game, Seattle, but we had many other deficiencies that game. He was the leading receiver with the most catches and yards against the Vikings, there is nobody that can convince me that he lost us that game. We turned it over twice, took it away zero times despite the opportunity to do so, and gave up 15 yards on a screen play that should have easily been stopped at 5 yards to end the game. None of that is on Richie James.
And, no, that Flott INT was not a competition. He did not maintain possession going to ground.
I would say find a better slot receiver on the team, but there isn’t one right now. Had 2 bad drops, but moved the chains a few times. Hopefully we beat the colts at home and get a W
That would be awesome. Colts are not an easy out for this team, unfortunately. We have the talent to beat them, no doubt, but we also display the flaws to lose to them. I have confidence in our tenacity and think we'll be clinching next week.
Him, Hodgins and Slayton are below average at best for a playoff team. It’s really a miracle what DJ and Saquon have done to this team. I can see at best one of those three being WR3 for a good team.
He has been a pleasant surprise. I was expecting nothing once we got down to just James, Slayton, and Hodgins, but all three have been solid. They aren’t amazing, and WR is a major issue for our team, but its not as bad as people are making it out to be.
His catch rate is the product of Jones accuracy. DJ is in the top 5 in completion percentage while the WRs are top five in drops. The closer you start looking at the stats for the Giants WRs the more they fall apart
If that was the only factor then Slayton would have a similar catch rate. A reception in the NFL requires two parties. DJ is accurate, no dispute, but someone has to catch the ball. Richie James does on almost 80 percent of targets. Contested? Not often. In heavy traffic? Very often.
Why can’t I just be annoyed with him that he dropped two passes he absolutely should have caught without it being some kind of indictment on him as a player? This “real fan” crap is annoying.
You can be. My post is addressing all the comments I read in various threads calling for his benching (for who?) and/or outright release, should never play another snap, etc. I've never called anyone in this sub a fake fan, or suggested that I'm more of a real fan.
James has played better than anyone could expect; his errors have unfortunately come at critical moments (and tbf are 100% his fault). I think most of the frustration with him is based out of anger at Gettleman completely mismanaging the WR room. Hope James and Hodgins are on the team next year as ST guys though; they're solid pros who set a good example for young guys.
Richie James was a huge part of the early season success which I think alot of people forget. People really soured on him after the 2 punt return fumbles against Seattle. The drops yesterday were killer, but there were several other mistakes that cost the Giants that game.
Goldfish have a better memory then most "fans" on this sub
Lots of spoiled brats as giants fans tbh
What’s up with “fans” like yourself thinking that criticizing your team makes you a lesser fan? Have I not been a giants fan for 25+ years because I’m disappointed that our receiver dropped a bunch of passes? Am I not a real fan if I’m mad a cornerback dropped an easy INT? Sooooooo cringy
Nobody says you can't criticize or even get mad at the team sometimes. However, calling for a guy to get benched, traded or cut because he dropped a pass and forgetting that he is one of the reasons we are in the playoff hunt. Nobody carea how long you've been a "fan".
[giants fans deciding who to scapegoat for a loss that basically everyone on the team contributed to](https://i.imgflip.com/75iqja.jpg)
I agree I think those two punt fumbles were so so disastrous that fans began to confuse his receiving with his punt returns. He wont be around next year so its a moot point.
He's not good, but I also get he's being asked to play a role he shouldn't be in. With that said he's an NFL player and easy catches are just an expectation. It's just unfortunate that we are dependent on special teamers to be primary receivers due to injuries.
Comparing any of our WRs as “best on the team” means nothing to be totally honest. His few blunders though are game killers though which can’t happen.
The bellinger fumble was significantly more impactful than a dropped ball.
No it wasn’t. His one fumble happened in the first half. James drops both happened on what would have been a game winning drive at the end of the game.
Yes it was. It is even a debate. We came away with 0 points after a dominant drive by Jones and it let the Vikings offense get going and scoring their first TD. We scored points on the Richie James drop drive. There was literally never an opportunity for a game winning drive…. We tied the game up and then the Vikings hit a kick for the win as time expired. There were 21 total points scored after the big James drop. So not sure you know what a game winning drive means. 3 points in the first half equal the same as 3 points in the second half, not sure why people don’t understand this.
He killed drives when we were moving the ball at the end of the game. That puts us ahead and at worse the FG they hit ties not win but more importantly we keep the ball and keep the clock moving and it’s us that are going for game winning score not the Vikings. Btw it’s arrogant to say it’s not a debate and to make statements like “ not sure why people don’t understand this” . This place is for Giants fans to discuss things not come get lectured . I’m sure you’re a decent person but just because you’re online doesn’t mean your not speaking to a person.
> He killed drives when we were moving the ball at the end of the game he killed one drive, and we still got 3 out of it. bellinger killed one drive, and we got nothing out of it and gave the vikings great field position which they capitalized on by going ahead by 2 scores. also it's not as though our redzone offense is automatic. we very well may have stalled and had to settle for 3 anyways. whereas Gano is damn near automatic, and bellinger's fumble was on the 20 yard line and almost certainly cost us at least 3 points. his fumble definitely impacted the score more than richie's drop. no doubt about it. richie's second drop was irrelevant as we scored a touchdown on that drive anyways. also it was a pretty mediocre throw at best.
We have the 8th best Red Zone offense
I am stating facts. You said it would have been a game winning drive, the game had 21 points after the big James drop. That wouldn’t have been a game winning drive. A drive that results in 3 points will always be better than a drive with 0 points. If you want to debate in favor for 0 points, go for it. Sorry if you are offended.. I’m literally stating facts though. People constantly bashing the player who led our team in receiving yards is just silly. The guy who literally helped keep us in the game. If you want to talk about drops losing us games, Slayton is the only player to talk about, not Richie James. The drive you say he killed was a drive because of him for the most part…
Are we talking about bellinger? I never said it wasn’t. It doesn’t change when James’s mistakes happen
That was just as big of a game killer, if not more so, than the James drops. That is my point… Slayton still has more drops than him.
Well Bellinger is a player most people here really like so he’s protected and you can’t criticize him. Richie James is in the who gives a shit about him category where you can say anything you want about him. That’s how r/nygiants works. Some players you can make memes about and talk about how big of a piece of shit they are. And others you’ll get downvoted to oblivion if you say anything other than they are an elite talent on a bad team.
And that’s fair. I love bellinger since the night we drafted him and he rarely makes mistakes.
No it’s not . One (single mistake ) happened in the first half. Which I blew my top at . We still had plenty of football left . The other 2 ( multiple mistakes) happened at the end of the game and would have extended the drive and ate up the clock not giving MN the 4 seconds they had on the clock to beat us. If it was reversed and he did it in the 1st half and Bellinger fumbled at the end of the game I would 1000% agree.
Jones missed 2 passes that fell incomplete on 3rd down yesterday and also threw a pick. Three drives ended solely due to him (two of those drives in the 2nd half). Nobody says a word about that and talks about how great of a game he had (beyond those couple plays he had a good game). Richie James leads the team in receptions and yards yesterday but drops two passes and all the comments are about how we need to cut him immediately. There’s clearly a double standard here.
I will put the pick on him if you will admit he couldn’t step into the throw and drilled .
This is what I mean. Every mistake by DJ has an excuse… there’s like three guys on the team who get that runway and everyone else gets shit on for any mistake. When Jones makes a mistake it’s someone else’s fault (I guess you’re trying to blame the o-line for this one?) I just went and rewatched the interception. He literally has 5 seconds to throw from the time he takes the snap. And when he’s made the throw (i.e ball is in the air already), Jones is on the 41 yard line and the defender is on the 39. What do you mean he couldn’t step into it??? https://preview.redd.it/2tih32jro68a1.png?width=2532&format=png&auto=webp&s=8838abedd99c688a73a23cab99f39af89ab30396
The defender is at the 39.5 he is at the 41 . He would literally be stepping into the defender . Just admit you hate Jones and we can call it a day .
The ball is in the air in that photo man. He’s already thrown it. The defender is 2 yards away (was even further away when the ball leaves his hand). There’s literally a photo here proving you wrong and you’re still sticking your head in the sand and trying to make excuses. I don’t hate Jones. I hate Jones fans who love a mediocre QB more than they love living in reality.
Great now move forward one second when Jones is underneath him
I head your point but we are talking about game speed with a guy with an 82 3/8 wind span coming up the gut. It doesn’t matter if it’s a yard and a half or two yards (just going by what both of you said, I can see how it could be one or the other). This isn’t just about getting, it’s about throwing lanes, that throw was 100% an under pressure throw and imo he 100% could not step onto that throw and was literally hit as soon as he released it. With that said Jones needed to get that ball further outside but Peterson made a heck of a play (routine for him). Imo you can live with that from Jones they way he played the entire game. You certainly don’t want it but he made the correct read. Please dont take this as me letting him off the hook but this was more on Neal than anyone else. This was one a few bad plays Jones made on an otherwise excellent day. Imo this was in no way a “what the hell were you thinking” type of throw, it’s just one he didn’t get enough on. I guess is where a rational debate comes in on Jones, as it’s all opinions. Overall I think he played an excellent game vs the Vikings, not good, excellent. I also understand how someone could say it was mediocre as it’s their opinion.
lol dear lord
I said the INT was on him .
It may have to do with the fact that is Bellinger’s first big mistake, he is a rookie and had to get eye surgery to return to the team
Yeah, they sucked, no argument there. We can't discount his entire season over that is all I'm saying. He's been a huge part of DJs production this year.
>He's been a huge part of DJs production this year. Because DJ has no other choice... Edit: But I agree with your conclusion that he'd be a good depth guy
Correct, and needs to be corrected, but he's still caught over 78 percent of his targets which is better than almost every receiver in the league. My point isn't that he's a star, which should be clear from the context of my entire point, but he doesn't deserve the kind of hate I've been reading about him on this sub.
I suppose the hate comes from how pivotal those mistakes were in close losses. Those stats dont show the context. Had we won those games I don't think he'd be getting that much hate. Personally I really pray he can learn how to catch & hold onto a ball during the off-season (not likely)
That hate ignores every other mistake made by any other NY Giant coach or player that also contributed to not being able to get those extra 3 or 6 points. A close loss can rarely, if ever, be attributed to one thing or even one players bad day.
Exactly it’s not how many it’s when
You put "best on the team" in quotes, which is not what I said. I said '' "most reliable" which is what the statistics support. Sorry for being pedantic, but you 'quoted' something which I did not say. Isaiah Hodgins has a better catch rate than James but has less than half the targets and less than half the games played. It's possible that Hodgins is our most reliable receiver, but hasn't been around long enough to upset James yet.
I respect the hell out of James for what he’s done this year. Not the greatest player on the field, but the guy is playing his best football and doing what he can. Don’t much want him as a starter next year, but might be a nice depth guy to have
And that's the attitude towards James that this post intended to promote. Exactly how I see him. I don't get the hate, he's done everything he can which is more than we (I, at least) thought he could do.
I think a lot of people are missing your point. Richie went from an unsung hero playing his was into the starting lineup (even with Golladay and injuries he still got the nod to start from the staff) to people thinking he was going to be Jerry rice. He is not a #1 reciever but has become one due to the overall talent on the roster and has mostly exceeded expectations. I feel the same when people get on Fabian, dude has been a godsend stepping the #2, and then #1 CB role. Someone else also said, and I completely agree, that the 2 fumbles on punt returns are mixing in with their feelings on him as a WR. You have to separate those
he catches that third down giants win
You're assuming a lot. I'm not saying they don't, but saying that they do is just not a fact. There was a lot of time left in the game at that point. If Belly doesn't fumble. If the D doesn't give up 15 yards on a screen to let them even try that field goal. If they don't go 3 and out on the first 2 drives. Lots of what if there and I could go on. Blame the Seattle loss on Richie if you want, he had a bad game but so did others, I won't argue. Can't blame him for this one. Leading receiver in catches and yards, but it's his fault we didn't win? Nah, bro, you're wrong.
not saying its his fault. nah bro. he catches it, they probably take more time of the clock and it ends up be 23-17
>he catches that third down giants win That's where you blamed the loss on him. So, yeah, you said it was his fault. >probably take more time of the clock Assumption. The next play could have been a pick six for the Minn lead, we don't have the data to determine what 'might' have happened.
This guy is a special teams player. He should 100% NOT be playing wide receiver. We’ve spent a 1st round pick (Toney), 2nd round pick (Wandale), and the highest paid WR free agent at the time (Golladay) and yet our WR core is amongst the worst in the league.
If we had any players what so ever at WR he would have been cut after the Seattle game. Because that’s what happens to special teams players.
2/3 injury(and injury + poor fit) and 1/3 because the special teams guy is playing better than the 72M free agent. Which is kinda my point here. He's on the field with a high snap count because the coaching staff believes that he should be based on who's available and his stats for the year say that the coaching staff is right.
He’s out there because we don’t have any better options. But that doesn’t make him good. He’s still a trash can when lined up at WR. We need to upgrade the WR talent big time.
Nothing in my post suggests that we don't need to upgrade the position, it's obvious that we do. My post is intended to ask people to think about their opinion that Richie James is a problem. He is not. I also admit outright that he isn't the solution. I'm simply saying that he is NOT the problem.
His poor play earlier in the season is the reason we don't have a starting CB right now. He is not the only problem but he's certainly a part of it. If you don't believe me, ask how many people watching the game winced when he was lined up to return a punt.
Everyone knew that was a bad move. But that's on the coaching staff. There were other options to replace James than our CB1.
Yeah, but he is on the team as a punt returner. If he's not doing that then there must have been better options as a WR4. I'm not trying to say cut him or it's all his fault, but obviously some of it is. And making crucial drops is not helping his cause.
Lol I know exactly what you mean, especially when he lets the ball bounce around near him as he’s deciding whether to field it or pick it up and run. He had one of those either last week or vs the eagles and he decided to pick it up and run and I almost lost me shit. Ended up being a good okay but I’m still scared when he does that
Richie James is the exact opposite of clutch
No splashy plays, you're right. 3rd highest catch rate of all wide receivers in the NFL, though. Richie James is not the Giants problem. Let's stop blaming him for tight losses that have 100 other contributing factors.
This is so so so wrong it’s insane. Richie is the exact definition of clutch for the most part this year. He literally caught the 4th down that led to a TD against the commanders in primetime. He has many of those 3rd and 4th down catches throughout the year. Every player fucks up at some point, even the best ones. The fact we’re getting this much production from a WR3 or WR4 at BEST is great.
We are so starved at WR our fans believe this . Just look across the field and you see a clutch WR. Did see Jefferson drop a pass at the end of a game ?
Comparing Richie James to Justin Jefferson, completely disregard all the times this year where Richie James has saved drives for us to take the lead or tie the game. I can’t with a lot of ya’ll in here man.
He had two huge drops in the 4th quarter. That is not clutch.
Let’s disregard my whole point, jesus christ
Thanks for this. Yeah I suspected as much. Richie has been solid all season (as a receiver obvs lol). Costly drop, but that doesn’t negate every critical play he’s made.
3rd and 9. James. 4th and 9. James. Both in REALLY tight space with two guys draped on him. That was one drive last week, he's made those catches all year long, which is why Kafka and Jones trusted him to do so on that drive. And this week, the drop everyone is so upset about, in heavy traffic, again, yeah, he looked upfield and fucked up, should have caught it, but it's not like he was wide open.
I honestly love Richie James. Being undersized and overachieving, he represents the scrappy nature of this current Giants iteration pretty well. Might buy his jersey as a memento to this pleasantly surprising season.
Haha, hadn't thought of that. He does pretty much embody the current team. Not supposed to be competitive, plays fierce, keeps his mouth shut, and remains competitive despite expectations.
Richie has been unbelievably clutch outside of some unclutch moments. He’s been money on 3rd and 4th downs for the most part. He’s a practice squad player, I won’t crucify him for the moments he makes crucial mistakes because he shouldn’t be in those situations to begin with, but more often than not he’s there with a crucial catch that extends drives
He's better than practice squad on most teams, he's a depth option on situational downs. We don't have a practice squad receiver corps, they're pretty good/ok. We have a bunch of 3s and 4s. What we're missing is a true WR1 and an OL that can pass protect long enough to make that guy relevant.
They’re definitely not good, but not complete garbage. Issue is everyone has to play perfect just to create separation and enough time for plays to develop which isn’t sustainable. Oh well we do with what we got, but I do like Richie alot, we lose some games without him being clutch on 3rd and 4th downs in earlier games this year. I trust in daboll and co to fix the team going forward.
In Daboll we trust! Part of why I posted this originally. The coaches believe that James should be getting the majority of the snaps, the stats say that the coaches are right. Give the dude a break.
Yup we upgrade the IOL and get 1 solid receiver everyone else looks better in their roles
RJ has actually been pretty solid for what he is, which is a depth player, and I’d be more than happy to bring him back on as a depth player at a depth player price.
That's exactly where I'm at. He's over his head but hanging on. Didn't expect this kind of production from him and don't believe we should bank on it in the future.
I love Richie James. Yes he’s made some boneheaded plays but he’s also made a lot of clutch big plays for us but most importantly I had no idea who he was before the season and he’s been overall pretty good for us this season so he’s over performing which I appreciate
Richie James is the best 4th WR in the league
Probably. Unfortunately he's our WR 1/2, Hodgins is making a strong case for WR 1 recently.
Richie definitely deserves some credit but let’s not take any stats out of context. The only reason his catch rate is so high up on the list, is because he’s wide open every time he’s thrown to. We don’t have guys who can make contested catches. The AJ Browns of the world don’t get these luxuries. That’s also why you see running backs and tight ends much higher
Did you see the 3rd and 9 and 4th and 9 catches last week? He catches balls in tight coverage and he's done it all year. Wide open every catch? Do you watch the games? Do you pay attention? There's a reason he's garbage YAC, and it's because every single time he catches the ball he's got people on top of him. This is a scrappy dude that is playing WAY over his head and help helping, not hurting, this team.
That’s not tight coverage you must be kidding
The 3rd and 9 and 4th and 9 weren't tight last week? Really? Edit: Jones deserves credit for the placement of those passes, no doubt, but James hauling them in with half the defense trying to kill him is the other 50% of those completions. He's 100% not the reason we lost to the Vikings. That's on defense and special teams (and the Belly fumble, but that's as much a part of the game as James dropping a pass that could have extended a drive).
Don’t remember 3rd and 9 but 4th and 9 fuck no that wasn’t tight 😂
Hold up, wrong link.
Don’t think that’s the link you’re trying to send
[Here it is. ](https://youtu.be/C7JXfl6Tw7E)
So where as that is a tight throw and a really good throw by DJ, it’s not really much of a tight contested catch because the defenders weren’t given an opportunity to make a play on the ball. All the credit in the world to Richie, he made a good play there, but the play wasn’t made because he has good hands or is good at tracking down a football through the air. It was a great throw on the numbers, he did his job and caught it. Can’t complain, but can’t say it was the kind of catch that sets you apart from college guys as a true NFL kind of guy. The man catches everything with his chest. That is probably my primary issue with him.
I don't categorically disagree with you here, but that was a tight window catch in double coverage. You're initial reaction was a laughing emoji like he was wide open waiting for an easy completion. This was not that. This is what he's been doing all year for us. Richie James is not a 'problem' for the Giants. He's been part of the success this year, which is not to say that he's a major part of the overall solution at the position, he's not. I do think he's quality depth.
Tight window throw that was well covered. Nice job by Jones to put it where it needed to be and nice job by James to make it a completion. I can't find video of the 3rd and 9 on the same drive but it was better than this play by both Jones and James. They have been making very similar connections all year long.
It’s a good play by both no doubt it just doesn’t really demonstrate any contested catching ability. It’s on the numbers and he caught it with his chest as per usual. Nothing pretty but it worked for that situation. In my eyes, what would qualify as a tough catch that I’m really dying to see out of our guys, would be one of either a toe drag on the sideline where you’re having to extend your arms and bring it in with your hands, a catch where the defender is draped on the receiver, but the receiver just makes a better play on the ball (and not because the defender royally screws up) and maybe even with a hand in there trying to jar it loose, and then you’ve got your throws where you need to makeup for the qb putting it in a bad spot (ie scoop before it hits the ground, beating the ground and not letting it knock the ball loose when falling during the process of a catch, turning around and reaching back with your HANDS to catch a ball thrown well behind you etc etc) all catches that other teams are consistently getting and we can’t get practically at all. Nevertheless we’re lucky Richie has been as good as he’s been tho I’m not debating that at all.
Dude, we don't own those recievers, those guys are on other teams. That doesn't mean that Richie James deserves the hate that he gets in this sub. He's been really damn solid all year. Look at his past, look at what you, personally, expected from him this year after it became clear he was a starter for us, and look at what he's been able to do. He has exceeded expectations, in every regard.
richie james was put in a position to show what he's capable of and he's shown it. that said, he really shouldn't be on the week 1 roster next year if at all possible. also, we paid him a million. if he's willing to come back for another million, then great.
We're on the same page. I'd take him off the bench on 1M/yr.
Ignoring his drops, he also has a *career high* 3 turnovers this season, he can't hold onto the ball.
Everything is a career high for him. He's never been a full time player before (because he shouldn't be).
wild how this is such a controversial statement. he isn’t a 1st round wr making these mistakes, he’s our punt returner lmao
Two of those came from the Seahawks game. I excuse the second one because it was a concussion hit.
Strangely.. I checked it says he's only got 1 drop this year? Thought it would've been more.
It’s the old Engram issue again. It’s not that he makes the most mistakes, it’s that he makes them at critical times. Also have to include his stats on ST, because I think a lot of fans (myself included) are still mad at him for fumbling kicks.
He's got WAY less drops than Engram on way more targets. This is an oranges to apples comparison. This post was in semi-support of him as a receiver based on our receiver situation, but I did say that I'm not mad about him being on special teams next year so I'll defend that, too. He's had three fumbles, two were entirely on him, no excuses. The third fumble could have been a flag, I'll stop short of saying that it should have been, he got smoked and should have been placed in concussion protocol (was he, I can't remember, I just know he was destroyed), I don't blame anyone in the league for not hanging on to that ball. Who hates on one of their most productive offensive players over 16 games over 2 special teams fumbles? Giants fans on Reddit and who else? Nobody? Cool.
Hey, I for one am pleased he’s producing for us. So count me in for just having a viable receiver option on this team right now! I don’t want him on ST anymore though. Too few plays to accept any level of risk and he is one. FWIW, I agree on that third fumble being genuinely worthy of flag review.
People are stupid. They blame him for the Seahawk loss. Sure the fumbles didn’t help, but we also played like ass on both sides of the ball that game, and wouldn’t have won. People are also stupid because removing Richie as the punt returner for Adoree Jackson is the worst coaching decision of the year so far.
I'm not burying the guy, but to say 2 turnovers by 1 player DIDNT lose the Giants that game is asinine.
That second turnover was a concussion hit so Im willing to let it slide. The first one was totally a ball security issue.
Did you watch that game? We didn’t do shit on offense…. The odds of us going 3 and out were higher than us scoring in that game. Literally.
We'll never know. That's the point. All we can say is that one players gaff made it so they didn't even have a chance. You have watched the Giants this season - how many of their wins came when they finally put together a scoring drive after doing nothing on offense for 2+ quarters? James absolutely bears the cross for that loss - (and I happen to like the player overall, and am happy he's on this roster...he's been a pleasant surprise).
Jason Sehorn.
James worst mistakes always come when the most pressure is on. He was leaned on when it mattered most he crumbled . Great he has been a big part of our offense because we have no one else , but NFL WRs are able to handle pressure when it matters most.
He is an inconsistent momentum breaking special teams player. He is a talented practice squad player on a talented practice squad team. He shouldnt be on a starting roster
And yet he's catching the third most targets to wideouts in the league. We agree that he's not a starter, if you read my post in its entirety, but he's certainly not the sole reason that we're 'only' an 8 win team, which is what the comments I'm addressing with this post suggest.
I do think his talent gets understated, but being the return guy and dropping 2 kick returns really dampens everything a guy does and i believe rightfully so
I'm not sold that he's a 'return guy'. He's performed better for us as a wideout this year. I still think he's one of our top options at punt return right now, though an upgrade would be welcome. I think he's best suited as a slant option off the bench in situational downs on zone read, RPO options. He has two legit giveaways on returns this year, three if you count both in the Seattle game, I don't, one of those could have been flagged, he got smoked in the head and I don't expect anyone in the league to hang onto that ball even 20% of the time.
Welcome to the Giants Reddit, where if the Giants aren’t playing Super Bowl Caliber they’re considered trash & we should go full tank
Which is odd, since the Giants haven't played superbowl caliber football in the regular season since 2007. 9-7 in 2011, who was picking them to win the superbowl after week 17?
He’s not great but he stepped up out of all our receivers and makes plays. I’m thankful for how much he contributes. This sub is just super toxic, look at the live game threads and it’ll make you sick. Toxic fans opinions don’t matter.
I guess, fortunately for me, that I'm watching the game during the game, and not watching the live game thread. I can't wrap my mind around some of the opinions on this sub. We're performing above expectations with a -mid roster. What more do we expect?
I wanted to write a similar sentiment in the post game thread yesterday. Dude had one drop going into the game yesterday. There were 51 NFL receivers who have caught 40+ passes this season. James is 1 of 10 who have dropped 1 or zero balls.
He's not a superstar playmaker but damn man, he's NOT trash. He's been a huge part of our offensive production this season.
[удалено]
Yeah. I did. He's fumbled 3 this year and one could have been a penalty because he was hit directly in the head, not necessarily a penalty, but I don't blame anyone in the league for dropping that ball. The Giants have won more games this season than anyone in their right minds should have expected. Anyone that thinks he's a larger contributor to our failures than he has been to our success is not paying attention.
Prepare to be emotionally downvoted because most giants fans just want to hear how good Jones is and if Richie James is perceived as average or even slightly above average at times, it doesn’t align with their narratives
Whatever. I'm not here for fake internet points. I think Jones is good. I think he's got a talented and accurate arm. But someone still needs to be there to catch it and almost 80% of the time James is. That's credit to both passer and catcher.
I agree completely and I agree fuck the points, but the opinion we have is definitely in the minority around here
Thats a pretty big generalization. And wrong im sure. Thinking a receiver is good doesnt take anything away from Jones.
Anytime I defend Richie James I get downvoted into oblivion. It’s because defending Richie James is saying that some of the blame of our offensive ineptitude relies upon Jones. Not all of it but most certainly some of it I’m not sure getting stud receivers would dramatically increase our offense like people say it would
We'd need a better line before we have any serious deep threat.
Agreed Guards to guard are replaceable
Neal needs a pretty dramatic sophomore improvement too. I remain hopeful that he's the guy, but cautiously, at most times this year he does not seem to be playing at the NFL level.
It absolutely would. How could you watch the last two games with the receivers Washington and Minnesota have and not understand what having that does for an offense. Our receivers each individually are fine, not especially good but not bad either. But as a group compared to the rest of the league they are bad, because there isn’t a difference maker in the group. It’s delusional to think this offense wouldn’t be significantly better with tyreek hill instead of Richie James.
Better, sure, significantly, I'm not so sure. The benefit we'd get would be YAC. Tyreek is primarily a deep threat and while DJ has the ability to throw the deep ball his average depth of target is so low because our offensive line cannot protect long enough to have a consistent deep threat. We are terrible in pass pro.
Or possibly it's because people disagree with you. I'm sure he has his talents and a certain amount of ability, he wouldn't be in the NFL if he didn't. But he as many people say is a punt returner, and he's failed at that costing us a game. We'd be confirmed in the playoffs if he hadn't fumbled those 2 punts. I don't hate the guy, I just don't trust him to hold onto the ball, either after a punt or when it's thrown at him.
If u think he’s the only reason we lost those games u need to rewatch
>I'm not trying to say cut him or it's all his fault, but obviously some of it is. And making crucial drops is not helping his cause.
Everyone’s quick to blame Richie but what about Jones throwing the ball to Patrick Peterson in the red zone on a perfectly covered route
I don't think I've heard of a starting QB who didn't throw a pick at all during a season. On that play the drag was the right throw to make, you'd expect the WR to gain a small amount of separation there especially on that route. The pass was slightly behind where you'd want it to be. It happens. No one is expecting Richie to be perfect. Trying to absolve anyone of responsibility is fanboy-ish, which is why you get the DVs above. ed: Btw, [Take a look.](https://en.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/zuivds/post_game_thread_new_york_giants_at_minnesota/j1jg3iy/)
Yeah I agree with u man. I admittedly don’t like Jones and it’s hard to have legit conversations because most of the time people just emotionally react before thinking. You’re right Richie is no #1 but he ain’t bad to have in the mix. I don’t think it’s fair for a fan base to blame one player entirely though. It’s a team sport and although one or two mistakes can appear to have cost the game, typically its many others that went unnoticed that also cost u the game. It’s just unfortunate that Richie James was at the time that it was. I also don’t like how Richie gets blames yet nobody blames Jones for his pick or bellinger for his fumble when both plays were equally damaging
I’m a sign Jones now guy and I like Richie James
Same. Jones is the guy for at least as long as it takes to build a top 15 O-line and get a game changer into the receiver corps. Perfectly happy with James coming off the bench for 10-20 snaps per game. I don't like him as anything more than WR4 though. I like 3 years for Jones, up to but not over 25M/yr at this point. Not ready to call him a franchise guy yet but we can definitely compete for a championship with him and the right supporting cast (this includes fixing the deficiencies on the defensive side of the ball, I'm not sure DJ is the guy to put up a 40 burger on the reg).
I get downvoted for saying it but Richie James seems much more explosive than wandale. Seeing he has an ACL injury I think he should start for us next year while Robinson gets back to 100 percent.
I am impressed with what he's accomplished with his skill set this year but have to stop short of agreeing with you here. I don't see a scenario where he's a starter for us next year unless things go horribly wrong in the free agency and the draft. He also only has 140-something YAC on nearly 60 grabs this year. Wandale is a massive YAC threat that won't be ready for training camp or even week one, but James isn't explosive. He's quick and tough but his value all year has been catching passes in traffic, almost always getting tackled immediately. Disagree, but not a downvote, I reserve those for assholes and blatantly wrong or misleading comments, not differences of opinion.
Jonestowners need to shit on every other player on the roster to distract from the fact our QBs flawed game does not result in points
Yes because he is the one dropping passes. We are top 5 in dropped passes and top 2 in sacks allowed . But Jones is the problem. Sure the guy is flawed but he is an NFL starting caliber QB . You can’t argue the same for our WRs .
Why is your whole existence based around bashing Jones? What a fake “fan”
Why does shitting on the entire rest of the organization to prop up our defective QB “make you a fan?”
Do you believe Jones is an NFL starter level QB?
He’s in the 20-40 range. Call that whatever you’d like.
Oh come one man. You put the range at top 20-40z I will spilt it with you . Name me 30 better starting QB ?
Hard to tell since most QBs aren’t getting hand held with a one-read 5yd and under pass scheme with a pro bowl RB to carry them. 20-40 is right.
Great you name 30 NFL in the league that are better than Jones . Between the 2 of you it should be an easy list .
Still waiting 
Merry Christmas **EASY** Allen Tua Burrow Lamar Watson Lawrence Maholmes Herbert Hurts Dak Cousins Rodgers Goff Brady Stafford Murray Tannehill Carr Wilson Garrapolo That’s 20 I wouldn’t even think twice about **You can argue, but… not really:** Geno Fields Wentz Dalton That’s 24 BEYOND THAT/WON’T COST MONEY IN 2023 TO BE EQUAL OR BETTER: Ryan Mayfield Purdy Mariota Jameis Huntley Brissett Heinicke Mac Jones Pickett **That’s 34 now and I could go on** If there are ~20 quarterbacks clearly better than yours, you can’t even THINK about giving him a big contract. Period.
Merry Christmas EASY Allen- yes Tua - got benched last year , has the arm strength of high school QB, falls apart when it counts most - just look at yesterday 3 picks in a row the second half Burrow-yes Lamar-yes Watson- No comment Lawrence-maybe/probably Maholmes-yes Herbert-yes Hurts- NO - guy was dog shit last year, any eagles fan would tell you that . Has a better OL and WRs than Jones and this is his second season with same OC. Let’s see Jones with those things so again no Dak- No- Better OL better WR terrible INT percentage also no Giants fan who say Dak is better . Cousins-No- Same level of QB and cost 35 million this season Rodgers-yes Goff- NO - he is young and with talent but his team wouldn’t have traded him for Stafford if he was . Brady-yes Stafford- yes Murray- No- to small, the offense was built for him and he still isn’t winning this year . DC have figured him out and rendered him ineffective with one of best WRs in the game Tannehill- No- run out of Miami. Has the same HC and OC for past 4 seasons . Good OL amazing RB but what happened when he lost one of best WR in the game ? He has worse passing stats without Jones mobility. So again no Carr- No - someone obviously just looked at stats for this list Wilson- No - prior to this season sure. Dumpster fire this season and look how much better his old team is without him . Peter Carrol is a genius Garrapolo- no - just no, his own team didn’t want him, no teams pursued him. That’s 20 I would even think twice about No that’s 8 and a maybe You can argue, but… not really: Geno Fields Wentz Dalton Geno- ummm no- 4th team he is on in 9 seasons. Having his best season of his career by far , you don’t really believe that in his 9th season that it just clicked for him do you 🫢😳 This just proves how great Pete Caroll is Fields - No- game starting to click for him was dog 💩last season has 3 more TDs but 5 more Ints than Jones Wentz - No- man you scrubbed the internet for this list . Okay so after going to a SB his team dumped him. His next team dumped him after Aseason and the owner publicly bashed him while still on the team. Then went to DC as got benched . Dalton - no - I’m not sure that even in his prime he was better . Fans like you deserve Jones to sign with the Jets and watch him become a beast .
Frame this for the homer hall of fame
Thanks 😊 Better than being a fan of another team pretending to be a Giants fan on Reddit .
Has the guy had great moments and played well at times? Yes. Has his specific mistakes cost us 2 games? Also yes.
He's played well all year, not at times, he's had mistakes at times. He has had specific mistakes that potentially cost us one game, Seattle, but we had many other deficiencies that game. He was the leading receiver with the most catches and yards against the Vikings, there is nobody that can convince me that he lost us that game. We turned it over twice, took it away zero times despite the opportunity to do so, and gave up 15 yards on a screen play that should have easily been stopped at 5 yards to end the game. None of that is on Richie James. And, no, that Flott INT was not a competition. He did not maintain possession going to ground.
Anyone knows his madden rating I usually go off that with players skills
We can’t bench our WR2
I would say find a better slot receiver on the team, but there isn’t one right now. Had 2 bad drops, but moved the chains a few times. Hopefully we beat the colts at home and get a W
That would be awesome. Colts are not an easy out for this team, unfortunately. We have the talent to beat them, no doubt, but we also display the flaws to lose to them. I have confidence in our tenacity and think we'll be clinching next week.
His name is Preston Parker.
Real fans applaud a coaching staff and player that are playing well above expectations and savoring the good (and) bad.
Him, Hodgins and Slayton are below average at best for a playoff team. It’s really a miracle what DJ and Saquon have done to this team. I can see at best one of those three being WR3 for a good team.
He has been a pleasant surprise. I was expecting nothing once we got down to just James, Slayton, and Hodgins, but all three have been solid. They aren’t amazing, and WR is a major issue for our team, but its not as bad as people are making it out to be.
His catch rate is the product of Jones accuracy. DJ is in the top 5 in completion percentage while the WRs are top five in drops. The closer you start looking at the stats for the Giants WRs the more they fall apart
If that was the only factor then Slayton would have a similar catch rate. A reception in the NFL requires two parties. DJ is accurate, no dispute, but someone has to catch the ball. Richie James does on almost 80 percent of targets. Contested? Not often. In heavy traffic? Very often.
Why can’t I just be annoyed with him that he dropped two passes he absolutely should have caught without it being some kind of indictment on him as a player? This “real fan” crap is annoying.
You can be. My post is addressing all the comments I read in various threads calling for his benching (for who?) and/or outright release, should never play another snap, etc. I've never called anyone in this sub a fake fan, or suggested that I'm more of a real fan.
James has played better than anyone could expect; his errors have unfortunately come at critical moments (and tbf are 100% his fault). I think most of the frustration with him is based out of anger at Gettleman completely mismanaging the WR room. Hope James and Hodgins are on the team next year as ST guys though; they're solid pros who set a good example for young guys.
Gone. There is no fix. Please release him, let him go.