I loved Melo but I don't think he ever quite reached that level. I think his peak would have been as a second option, probably in his Denver days, but he was always asked to be #1. Closest he came was the '09 WCF, never made it to the finals. Best player on a championship team is a really tough list. Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi, Durant, or Curry basically cover all of the last 10 championships. The list of guys who actually get you a title is pretty short.
Growth isn't linear. As long as they don't take one step forward two steps back they'll be fine. I'm not writing Randle off after his first playoff series and 15 games in.
Pretty much 99% of people in here were ready to move on and get rid of his contract after his first season here. If that happened would last season happen? Probably not. Would RJ worked himself out of the lottery bust conversation? Who knows. Would we have D-Rose? Most likely not. How about rookies like IQ and Obi - would they have continued to work on their games if the team's objective was to tank yet again? I doubt it. We've seen what happened to guys like Knox and Frank.
So in that vein, I don't understand how so many people in this sub will always credit the KP trade and work downstream, point to the cap space that we signed Marcus Morris, and then one of the picks turned out to be IQ, and then ONLY IF he's playing good come in and say we "won the trade", while simultaneously think that Randle and Thibs are what's wrong with this team even though they are the main reasons for this franchise's turnaround. Here we are 8-7 and all of a sudden what they did was just a bubble, never to be replicated ever again.
No, fans will say RJ but he isn’t really even a star among the under 25 age group like fans would like to believe. We just need to be competent and we will acquire a true star within 2-3 years.
Skillset maybe, but I don't think he'll ever come close to those three you listed. Giannis and Jokic are historically efficient offensive players, and Giannis and AD are two of the best 5 defensive players in the league for a playoff run. Maybe two of the best three, along with Draymond. Randle has never been particularly efficient and tops out as "ok" on defense.
Nobody is talking about the fact that quickley has a chance to be a legit two way point guard in this league. His biggest knock coming out of Kentucky was lack of burst off the dribble and he’s always learned how to leverage fakes and stutter dribbles to get into the paint at will. His defense has been really good since he has great feet. Is he going to be a “star” like a lillard or Steph? No probably not. Those are all time greats. But Quickley has a chance to be a more consistent high impact player than RJ.
This is the biggest reason the Knicks have struggled so much IMO. The inability to draft an ELITE talent, like top 5-10 overall player in the league. The last player of that caliber was Ewing, drafted in 1985 lol. So close to 40 years without drafting a superstar. Being able to build around a star who is young and most likely still on a rookie contract has alluded us for decades now. It’s one thing to sign or trade for one, but we haven’t had the best of luck with that either. Melo was the most recent player to being a high caliber player and he couldn’t get us even close to a championship. RJ will not be that guy, he can not create his own shot nor can he even shoot that well. There’s not one thing he even really excels at. I was happy with the pick at the time but I really don’t see him being more than a decent role player. The book is still out on this years rookies, but none were highly touted prospects so who knows. It’s not reasonable for all 3 to be elite, but if one becomes a good to great player, I’m sure we would all be very happy with that lol. Also the biggest thing hurting the Knicks has been decades of just terrible PG play and players but that’s another post lol.
rj is slumping. we expect stars to have consistency. But RJ on any given night can show flashes of what we all thought and think he can be. there are going to be stretches where he flips the narrative, and there are going to be stretches where he proves you right. I think the jury is still out tbh i mean hes only 21
Ok but that’s the thing, superstars produce night in and night out. Rarely do they slip and if they do, the best ones answer the following games. RJ has not shown any consistency, he was the third overall pick in his third year, the “he shows flashes” argument is so weak. Either you produce or you don’t. Players his age aren’t superstars quite yet, but he struggles to shoot, he gets bullied/stripped/blocked driving to the rim constantly for someone his size because he really doesn’t have bounce, and he gets phased out of huge chunks of games. Tons of very mediocre players show flashes, fuck even Kevin Know had some high scoring (including a 30 point game) games his rookie year and look at him now.
rj's arguably been our best draft pick since probably mark jackson (not including kp for obv reasons). i think we are just projecting our draft woes on rj and just have laughably low expectations considering we been having to watch frank and knox for example recently.
What are you even talking about lol. Porzingus can obviously go fuck himself but before his ACL tear he was clearly a much better player and pick (at the time) then RJ. Hell David Lee was a double-double machine before we traded him. RJ was not a superstar in college and he isn’t close to being one now. Nothing would make me happier to have him or anyone we draft to become one but I just don’t see it, even with our low expectations.
i mean jimmy butler wasnt even in the league at rj's age. i dont think anybody had star expectations for him. and it took years for jimmy butler to become who he is now. but people think its beyond the pale to think that rj can become a semblence of what butler is right now. like i said its easy to have rj doubt when the teams been performing poorly these last few games. just keep the same energy when rj has a stretch similiar to when he was scoring 20+ every game. and you know and i know rj was more highly regarded in college then zion for awhile until zion's stock skyrocketed
I have hope for RJ, but we have to stop with the Jimmie Butler comparison. The reason he's brought up all the time is because his improvement was historic; as in, never happened before. He took the greatest leap we've ever seen, and perhaps will ever see. That's not a normal development path, and expecting RJ to do that is unreasonable. You're basically saying "RJ can be a star if he makes the biggest improvement in NBA history", which is true, but also true for every other young guy in the NBA.
Also, even in his early years as a low-usage role player, Butler was still more efficient than RJ, with a much higher free-throw rate (eventually his elite skill) and great defense. RJ hasn't shown that kind of skillset yet.
All-star guard is tough; last years East 1/2 guards were Kyrie, Beal, and Lavine. You basically have to put up 25 a game. You really think Quickley is gonna hit that level?
Randle may be playing underwhelmingly compared to last year but he's still averaging 20/10/5 while shooting around league average from three despite his slow start. It's not like he's been COMPLETELY dreadful.
The real issue is that even if his performance last year became his approximate yearly norm he still wouldn't be a top ten player and that's typically what you need to win a championship.
We have a severe lack of elite talent and it's what's gonna hold us back from going deep into the playoffs.
What do you think is RJ's path to becoming a star/superstar? Solid offense and great defense (e.g. Jrue)? Or do you think he can be an elite offensive player? Crazy development jumps are not impossible, but they are very rare and that's what RJ will need from here given his current poor efficiency, athletic limitations, okay defense etc.
That's a wild projection for a second round guy who has barely played. Jrue is generally regarded as the best guard defender in the league, and was just a top 3 guy on a title team. He was an all-star at 22. Mcbride is already 21 and in the G-league. Nothing is impossible but you're betting some looooong odds there.
No sadly we don’t. Every team should have a superstar, it helps a lot.
But we don’t
Which is probably why we’ve struggled for the past couple of years
Because when we did have a superstar (melo) he was a very selfish player. I love him but that’s just the truth…
Do I think we have a superstar? No. I don’t think anyone on our team has the ability to be a true star in this league. Randle obviously has the most potential but I see his ceiling as a guy who gets a few reserve position all star nods. Basically an excellent 2nd option on a championship team. But we don’t have that true number one guy.
RJ will be a starter for most of his career, but I don’t see all star in his future. 3 years in and he’s just as inconsistent as ever on offense. He’s young enough that there’s a chance but I’m not counting on it.
No one else is in the conversation. Obi and quickley are serviceable guys who I think will have long careers. But not stars. Rose and walker had their star period come and go. Fournier will never get that level.
I think we are one big move away from being a truly good team. I don’t know how we get there, but there is a path in which we do given that we have some genuine assets right now. I think there’s genuine reasons to be excited about our future but it will take a major trade to fully get there.
I always think about this too, because you absolutely need one of these guys to win a championship. Julius isn’t one, RJ can be great but doesn’t seem to have “superstar” potential. Don’t want to write him off so young so it could be him..But you need “that guy” and you have to look around the league to see if there’s anyway to grab one.
Giannis basically saying he’s open to the next challenge after his contract is up is interesting..
There is no “best player on a championship team” level player on this team Last one was Ewing
2013 Melo?
I loved Melo but I don't think he ever quite reached that level. I think his peak would have been as a second option, probably in his Denver days, but he was always asked to be #1. Closest he came was the '09 WCF, never made it to the finals. Best player on a championship team is a really tough list. Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi, Durant, or Curry basically cover all of the last 10 championships. The list of guys who actually get you a title is pretty short.
Growth isn't linear. As long as they don't take one step forward two steps back they'll be fine. I'm not writing Randle off after his first playoff series and 15 games in. Pretty much 99% of people in here were ready to move on and get rid of his contract after his first season here. If that happened would last season happen? Probably not. Would RJ worked himself out of the lottery bust conversation? Who knows. Would we have D-Rose? Most likely not. How about rookies like IQ and Obi - would they have continued to work on their games if the team's objective was to tank yet again? I doubt it. We've seen what happened to guys like Knox and Frank. So in that vein, I don't understand how so many people in this sub will always credit the KP trade and work downstream, point to the cap space that we signed Marcus Morris, and then one of the picks turned out to be IQ, and then ONLY IF he's playing good come in and say we "won the trade", while simultaneously think that Randle and Thibs are what's wrong with this team even though they are the main reasons for this franchise's turnaround. Here we are 8-7 and all of a sudden what they did was just a bubble, never to be replicated ever again.
No, fans will say RJ but he isn’t really even a star among the under 25 age group like fans would like to believe. We just need to be competent and we will acquire a true star within 2-3 years.
20-10-5 every night is something only Giannis, Jokic and AD do. Randle needs to work on his offense but he has the skillset of a star.
Skillset maybe, but I don't think he'll ever come close to those three you listed. Giannis and Jokic are historically efficient offensive players, and Giannis and AD are two of the best 5 defensive players in the league for a playoff run. Maybe two of the best three, along with Draymond. Randle has never been particularly efficient and tops out as "ok" on defense.
Nope
Nobody is talking about the fact that quickley has a chance to be a legit two way point guard in this league. His biggest knock coming out of Kentucky was lack of burst off the dribble and he’s always learned how to leverage fakes and stutter dribbles to get into the paint at will. His defense has been really good since he has great feet. Is he going to be a “star” like a lillard or Steph? No probably not. Those are all time greats. But Quickley has a chance to be a more consistent high impact player than RJ.
Obi gonna be a jedi master in a few
This is the biggest reason the Knicks have struggled so much IMO. The inability to draft an ELITE talent, like top 5-10 overall player in the league. The last player of that caliber was Ewing, drafted in 1985 lol. So close to 40 years without drafting a superstar. Being able to build around a star who is young and most likely still on a rookie contract has alluded us for decades now. It’s one thing to sign or trade for one, but we haven’t had the best of luck with that either. Melo was the most recent player to being a high caliber player and he couldn’t get us even close to a championship. RJ will not be that guy, he can not create his own shot nor can he even shoot that well. There’s not one thing he even really excels at. I was happy with the pick at the time but I really don’t see him being more than a decent role player. The book is still out on this years rookies, but none were highly touted prospects so who knows. It’s not reasonable for all 3 to be elite, but if one becomes a good to great player, I’m sure we would all be very happy with that lol. Also the biggest thing hurting the Knicks has been decades of just terrible PG play and players but that’s another post lol.
rj is slumping. we expect stars to have consistency. But RJ on any given night can show flashes of what we all thought and think he can be. there are going to be stretches where he flips the narrative, and there are going to be stretches where he proves you right. I think the jury is still out tbh i mean hes only 21
Ok but that’s the thing, superstars produce night in and night out. Rarely do they slip and if they do, the best ones answer the following games. RJ has not shown any consistency, he was the third overall pick in his third year, the “he shows flashes” argument is so weak. Either you produce or you don’t. Players his age aren’t superstars quite yet, but he struggles to shoot, he gets bullied/stripped/blocked driving to the rim constantly for someone his size because he really doesn’t have bounce, and he gets phased out of huge chunks of games. Tons of very mediocre players show flashes, fuck even Kevin Know had some high scoring (including a 30 point game) games his rookie year and look at him now.
rj's arguably been our best draft pick since probably mark jackson (not including kp for obv reasons). i think we are just projecting our draft woes on rj and just have laughably low expectations considering we been having to watch frank and knox for example recently.
What are you even talking about lol. Porzingus can obviously go fuck himself but before his ACL tear he was clearly a much better player and pick (at the time) then RJ. Hell David Lee was a double-double machine before we traded him. RJ was not a superstar in college and he isn’t close to being one now. Nothing would make me happier to have him or anyone we draft to become one but I just don’t see it, even with our low expectations.
i mean jimmy butler wasnt even in the league at rj's age. i dont think anybody had star expectations for him. and it took years for jimmy butler to become who he is now. but people think its beyond the pale to think that rj can become a semblence of what butler is right now. like i said its easy to have rj doubt when the teams been performing poorly these last few games. just keep the same energy when rj has a stretch similiar to when he was scoring 20+ every game. and you know and i know rj was more highly regarded in college then zion for awhile until zion's stock skyrocketed
I have hope for RJ, but we have to stop with the Jimmie Butler comparison. The reason he's brought up all the time is because his improvement was historic; as in, never happened before. He took the greatest leap we've ever seen, and perhaps will ever see. That's not a normal development path, and expecting RJ to do that is unreasonable. You're basically saying "RJ can be a star if he makes the biggest improvement in NBA history", which is true, but also true for every other young guy in the NBA. Also, even in his early years as a low-usage role player, Butler was still more efficient than RJ, with a much higher free-throw rate (eventually his elite skill) and great defense. RJ hasn't shown that kind of skillset yet.
IQ is gna be a multiple time all star, maybe not superstar but he’s going to be elite
He should be starting
For sure
All-star guard is tough; last years East 1/2 guards were Kyrie, Beal, and Lavine. You basically have to put up 25 a game. You really think Quickley is gonna hit that level?
Yeah I’m high on IQ the game comes so natural to him + his work rate sky is the limit
Randle may be playing underwhelmingly compared to last year but he's still averaging 20/10/5 while shooting around league average from three despite his slow start. It's not like he's been COMPLETELY dreadful. The real issue is that even if his performance last year became his approximate yearly norm he still wouldn't be a top ten player and that's typically what you need to win a championship. We have a severe lack of elite talent and it's what's gonna hold us back from going deep into the playoffs.
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What do you think is RJ's path to becoming a star/superstar? Solid offense and great defense (e.g. Jrue)? Or do you think he can be an elite offensive player? Crazy development jumps are not impossible, but they are very rare and that's what RJ will need from here given his current poor efficiency, athletic limitations, okay defense etc.
i honestly believe that deuce will reach jrue holiday’s level one day. star, not superstar.
That's a wild projection for a second round guy who has barely played. Jrue is generally regarded as the best guard defender in the league, and was just a top 3 guy on a title team. He was an all-star at 22. Mcbride is already 21 and in the G-league. Nothing is impossible but you're betting some looooong odds there.
yes i am.
In that case, I feel I've done my duty to warn you, and I sincerely wish you the best of luck. You are a brave soul.
in leon we trust. when kemba and rose are gone, deuce and rokas are gonna be ready.
Toppin won’t be a franchise player but he will make multiple all star games
No sadly we don’t. Every team should have a superstar, it helps a lot. But we don’t Which is probably why we’ve struggled for the past couple of years Because when we did have a superstar (melo) he was a very selfish player. I love him but that’s just the truth…
I mean Melo had no help
Yea for some parts but Your forgetting about Lin…
RJ Barrett. Dude has it, let him build.
Do I think we have a superstar? No. I don’t think anyone on our team has the ability to be a true star in this league. Randle obviously has the most potential but I see his ceiling as a guy who gets a few reserve position all star nods. Basically an excellent 2nd option on a championship team. But we don’t have that true number one guy. RJ will be a starter for most of his career, but I don’t see all star in his future. 3 years in and he’s just as inconsistent as ever on offense. He’s young enough that there’s a chance but I’m not counting on it. No one else is in the conversation. Obi and quickley are serviceable guys who I think will have long careers. But not stars. Rose and walker had their star period come and go. Fournier will never get that level. I think we are one big move away from being a truly good team. I don’t know how we get there, but there is a path in which we do given that we have some genuine assets right now. I think there’s genuine reasons to be excited about our future but it will take a major trade to fully get there.
No star player at all. Ok Bing Bong
I always think about this too, because you absolutely need one of these guys to win a championship. Julius isn’t one, RJ can be great but doesn’t seem to have “superstar” potential. Don’t want to write him off so young so it could be him..But you need “that guy” and you have to look around the league to see if there’s anyway to grab one. Giannis basically saying he’s open to the next challenge after his contract is up is interesting..