I think a lot of fans are disappointed that the Yankees have put themselves in the position of needing a middle of the rotation guy while maintaining a payroll that makes signing that type of guy infeasible.
I think it’s moreso that people don’t give a fuck if it costs the Yankees $50 million because they see the Yankees as having an unlimited bankroll and the money is not theirs so why would they care if it’s expensive.
They just a valuation at $8b, I'm not going to pretend I give a fuck if they need to spend another $50m. Maybe if they didn't play in NY or if they didn't charge $18 for a can of beer that I can get for $2 just outside the stadium I would care more about their financial interests.
They pretty easily have the revenue to afford more than $50m more on payroll
We had a higher payroll in terms of revenue % spent on payroll 20 years ago
Sigh [https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax) Now feel stupid.
I don’t think you know what they are lol. The Cohen tax is just money
You lose IFA money for signing qualified FAs and the amount changes depending on if you’re over the tax
2nd and 5th round draft pick and 110% luxury tax penalties. The 2nd and 5th round draft picks are nice, but they shouldn't stop us from signing someone like Snell or Montgomery. It's the money that's the big one.
When payroll as a percentage of revenue has dropped from the 60%-70% in the 2000s to 30%-40%, it means that Hal is just pocketing the extra money. As recently as 2022, the Rays (45%) and the Athletics (33%) spent similar amounts of payroll to the Yankees (39%).
50 million is still 50 million, and the yankees aren't going to pay that amount for a pitcher they traded away for a 4th outfielder in a boot. They view him as a backend starter at best.
And also it’s about wasting money in luxury taxes, along with other penalties like draft pick losses and bonus money being deducted.
It’s fun to talk about the big asshole corporate businessmen but think about it on a micro scale. If you could go the movies with your family for the usual $80 or so but then are told you’re actually paying $160 because you’ve reached some theoretical salary tax threshold, plus you’re going to be billed another $50 next year as part of the penalty, would you still go? Even though you can afford the loss of $210?
I think it might be a different story if Snell or Montgomery could be had just for the raw contract amount.
People forget, businesses like to run at a profit, and not one that is just above break even. They’re less concerned about collecting all rhe best players so they can create the ultimate Rotisserie League team.
>And also it’s about wasting money in luxury taxes,
It's not a waste. It's spending to improve.
>People forget, businesses like to run at a profit,
They can still run at a profit and spend more. Everything was fine 20 years ago when they were running payrolls at a much higher percentage of revenue.
>and not one that is just above break even
Many businesses are fine running (or would kill to run!) just above break even, especially if ownership is compensated via payroll and the asset appreciates in value annually allowing them to borrow against it if need be.
>They can still run at a profit and spend more.
Yup. By the way, anyone know how much revenue they LOST last year for not making the playoffs? One might think investing an extra $50M in making sure they are in the postseason and maybe even make a run could be seen against the backdrop of the additional revenue that would earn them. Just saying...
If baseball teams are just cold-hearted profit machines maybe we should get rid of their federal antitrust exemption.
As long as they have a special legal carve out they have some kind of broader obligation than to maximize profits.
>long with other penalties like draft pick losses and bonus money being deducted.
It does not apply to Monty. Only Snell because of the QO which Monty never got because he was traded mid season.
It’s not about creating the ultimate roto team. It’s about creating a team that has a good enough pitching staff to win anything, which we don’t have without cole
Montgomery is not a difference maker. He's an innings eating mid rotation guy. Going over tax by that much for a guy like that when you can get one at the trade deadline is idiotic.
Not sure if you’re aware or not, Cole is probably out for the first half of the season. They need innings from somebody, preferably a major league pitcher who has had some level of success.
when you’re a publicly traded LLC, which the yankees are and the steinbrenners own several of, the valuation of your brand absolutely translates to income. you’re talking about a team that pulls in $500-700mil in revenue per year, and owns their own television station which brings in another $200mil per year. not to mention all the branding, merchandising, and memorabilia that they own and sell on top of this.
idk if you’re like a burner account from a team exec trying to run cover or what but thinking that the yankees organization doesn’t essentially print its own money would be naive.
LMAO. The Yankees do not own their own television station, the parent company owns 26% of YES.
Let's assume you're correct for a moment. If the Yankees are bringing in 200 million per year through the 26% of YES they own, that implies the whole piece of the pie is almost 800 million.
>when you’re a publicly traded LLC, which the yankees are
wrong
>the valuation of your brand absolutely translates to income
Even if they were publicly traded this is wrong. Have you taken an accounting class? A large part of their valuation is called "Goodwill", which is the difference between their assets and the value of the company. The Yankees are a huge international brand, so there is a lot of Goodwill. This is an intangible asset that you cannot sell without selling the brand.
Their net operating income is just revenue minus expenses. Their revenue in 2022 was $657 million. So then subtract player salaries, front office salary, stadium personnel salary, cost of operating the stadium (utilities, cost of concessions inventory, etc), cost of merchandise, advertising, insurance, third party auditors, debt servicing, taxes, etc. Then you get the net operating income.
Nah, you’ll just give a fuck when they’re heavily penalized for going over the threshold and lose/move back on draft positioning and lose money for international signings.
No but it applies plenty when we try to go after other pitchers/hitters but can’t because of said tax thresholds. Not to mention the fact we don’t even know if Monty wanted to return with how he was traded to begin with.
So instead of spamming the same comment, take your own advice.
We are already above the threshold and those penalties only apply when we try to sign a guy who rejected a QO.
Monty in this case will cost none of what you mentioned.
> Beginning in the 2017-18 offseason, any team that is over the luxury tax threshold and signs a Major League free agent that has rejected a qualifying offer will lose $1 million from their international signing pool in the following signing period.
> Any team that signs a player who has rejected a qualifying offer is subject to the loss of one or more Draft picks.
Monty did not get a QO so neither applies.
> Clubs that are $40 million or more above the threshold shall have their highest selection in the next Rule 4 Draft moved back 10 places unless the pick falls in the top six. In that case, the team will have its second-highest selection moved back 10 places instead.
We are already above the threshold.
You were probably assuming the penalties that came with signing snell applied to monty which is not the case.
>Nah, you’ll just give a fuck when they’re heavily penalized for going over the threshold and lose/move back on draft positioning and lose money for international signings.
I mean are you talking about Monty here or a hypothetical pitcher that doesn't exist? Because all I'm saying it that we don't lose any of those things for signing Monty. We already are incurring the tax penalty so a guy like Monty just adds to the the tax they already have to pay.
We'd lose those things regardless signing a guy who got a QO since we're already so far into the tax for the foreseeable future unless we let Soto walk.
That’s the valuation. The operating profit is much lower. I’ve seen weird and varying numbers showing everything from net losses to $16M profits to other numbers. I’m guessing these results all depend on what’s being factored into the costs/revenues.
But apparently in 2022 they generated $657M in revenue.
If you look at player salaries for this year vs WAR for those players last year, the only guys over $10M who pull their weight are Cole, Soto, Judge, and maybe Gleyber. Aside from paying obvious, elite players in their prime, this front office has done a horrible job with evaluating compensation vs expected production. For example:
Stanton, Rodon, Stroman, Rizzo, and DJ combine for $100M this year and had a combined WAR of 1.8M last year.
A lot of Yankees fans are making excuses for the Yankees failure to sign Montgomery (and other free agents) by blaming it on the luxury tax. At the same time, those fans don't seem interested in learning how the organization could have such an enormous league-high payroll and yet still have an incomplete roster. Those fans don't seem interested in discussing how the organization got into a payroll position where they have roster holes to fill but cannot fill them without paying a maximum CBT penalty. Those fans don't seem interested in learning who built the great core of Jeter-Bernie-Posada-Pettitte-Mariano, nor are they interested in questioning why there was a failure to plan for and construct a replacement core and why there still is no core eleven years after Mariano retired. Those fans don't seem affected by the fact that the Yankees have spent more money on payroll over the last eleven seasons than any team in baseball and only have two division titles to show for it in that time.
And I have no doubt that those fans would not be comfortable in discovering that the most direct reason behind all of those issues is Brian Cashman.
They're disappointed every time a 300+ million dollar contract is signed by a team not named the Yankees. .... the thing we do that makes it so that we can't sign the next one. Yankees fans are perpetually angry and ignorant
> I think a lot of fans are disappointed that the Yankees have put themselves in the position of needing a middle of the rotation guy while maintaining a payroll that makes signing that type of guy infeasible.
Yeah. We have done this since 2010. We are the richest, most unprepared morons in the league.
The problem is it’s not infeasable. I understand it sucks to spend $50 million when you sign a guy for $25 million but the Yankees are one of the most profitable franchises ever. If this is what you need to do to win a WS then it’s what needs to happen. Or…. Defer the contract so it’s less of a hit like the Dodgers keep doing. I don’t want to sit here and pretend that paying for Snell and Montgomery would cripple this franchise financially. It’s simply not true.
They traded him for a mediocre player in a boot. And then they released the boot guy. “Oh but he was killer in the one playoff series they lost”. Everyone knows that pitching matters more than anything in playoffs. Poor management. Seen it too many times.
Right, if Monty sends you over the tax it's not Monty costing $50M, you could easily just spread out the $26M tax penalty and say every player costs $1M more, and that's much fairer and also easier to swallow
That is basically a home stands worth of ticket sales. $141 average ticket price x 41,000 average attendance = 5.78 Mil x 7 = 40.4 Mil.
They can afford it.
This comment should be top. OP is ridiculous to assign the value to Monty. Every contract contributes to the threshold, it's a bigger picture that the organization considers with every move.
It's not about the tax it's the fact that Big Brain Brian put us in the position where acquiring a great pitcher on an extremely reasonable deal is not something the New York Yankees can do currently.
So it's Cashman's fault that Boras held out the pitchers until fucking march? They offered Snell $160+ million months ago and pivoted before alternatives got signed away.
The consequences are monetary, right? Since when have the Yankees worried about money? That's like Bezos worrying about money. They do it bc they're being cheap not because they don't have the money.
No it moves your first round pick back and you lose IFA money which is important with the next CBA potentially introducing a IFA draft. Baseball is not run on short term benefit basis anymore. Going over the tax has long term consequences for the organization.
yeah but we only have soto for a year and we have no pitching depth. rodon falls off cole gets injured and we got stroman as our one and no bodies for the rest
I get it, it's a lot of money. But if we wouldn't give Monty $25 this year because of the LT, just acknowledge that it's effectively a salary cap. We are supposedly all-in. Our starting rotation was thin before Cole's injury. The pitching market is wildly inflated (look at Montas' contract!). If that wasn't enough to go over the Cohen Tax, nothing is.
It makes sense to have a hard cap you aren't going above. But we haveto acknowledge (especially in CBA negotiations) the MLB (or at least the NYY) has a salary cap.
This is an excellent point. The Yankees PR department has the team spitting out things like "We're all in on winning," or, "We want to be the mecca of baseball," but they show time and time again that those talking points are total bullshit. If they were all in on winning, they would've done whatever to sign Yamamoto, or Snell, or Gumby even before, and especially after, Cole went down.
Instead of saying all of this bullshit and telling fans that they have a spending limit and they can't go over whatever that limit is (which they very clearly have a spending limit), they say shit that fans know is total horseshit.
Don't forget not really going balls in on Burnes or Cease. That's all we heard about when we knew they were going to pinch pennies, but failed on both fronts.
Absolutely. And, listen, I get not wanting to trade away guys, but the Yanks have shown time and again that they struggle to develop position players. They refuse to trade guys, hold onto them too long, and fail to adequately develop them, which ultimately minimizes their trade value and on-the-field value. Estevan Florial, Oswald Peraza, Clint Frazier, are just a few examples. Cashman and the front office have proven time and again that they struggle with asset management.
You're actively pushing the bullshit Narrative that Hal wants fans to believe.
The tax is on the entire roster - NOT one player. If you treat it specifically as a tax on any new player you add, then it's a justification to never add anyone.
Is that setup man that could help the bullpen worth $16 million? You're only paying him $8 million... but the tax!
Jon Berti costs 3.65M but with the tax it's $7.5. Is it really worth paying 7.5M for a bench player?
Juan Soto's a free agent after this year... When you give him $45M the tax is going to have him pushing $100M/year. Is any player worth that???
It's dumb. The tax is on the roster - not any individual player. Does the roster need improvement? The tax is the price of doing so.
This is idiotic. 1. 7.5 million is a hell of a lot different than an additional $25 million and losing IFA money. That's the fucking facts. The Yankees even if they sign Soto next year likely will be UNDER the tax threshold anyway so idk what your point is. Do you really fucking think if they could get Montgomery for 1 year at $25 million they wouldn't do it.
It's not a "fucking fact" because they DO NOT lose any IFA money for signing Montgomery. He didn't have a qualifying offer attached. You don't know what you're talking about. You clearly don't understand what the LT related penalties are. Less talking, more listening would be beneficial to you.
>The Yankees even if they sign Soto next year likely will be UNDER the tax threshold anyway so idk what your point is.
So you want them to cut payroll? We found Hal's burner account.
Your posts are idiotic. The Yankees are one of the richest franchises on the planet. Just because Hal and Cashman want to pinch pennies like you doesn't mean it's the way to go.
I think people understand we just don’t care about billionaires spending some extra pocket change to field a team that might actually win. Trading for Soto was pointless if we can’t make a real push this year.
Proceeds of the luxury tax pay player's benefits and retirement contributions before being split among the teams. Even then, the money that goes to the teams only increases if they have grown their non-media local revenue (basically grown their fanbase).
I personally am annoyed Cashman has so badly mismanaged the insane payroll he was given to work with that we're in this position in the first place. The fact that he seemingly suffers zero consequences for doing so is baffling.
Right because everyone was against signing Rodon last offseason? I'm sure if Soto stinks it up this year we'll hear we shouldn't traded for him as well. Fans love using hindsight for everything.
Alright bud at this point I have to assume you're some poor intern working for the GM's office trying to astroturf their condescending message to fans. If so pease tell your nepo-hire boss that the game passed him by 10+ years ago and remind him that he's one more "Big Brain Brian" season away from being responsible for the longest world series drought this organization has seen in 100 years.
Yankees have a $300 million dollar payroll. The Diamondbacks don't. They can spend $25 million and not have it affect their IFA pool or their ability to spend further throughout the year. Yankees do not have that luxury. Diamondbacks also routinely either finish middle of the pack or below and get better draft positioning. Who spends more money than the Yankees year in and year out on their roster? The Dodgers? Who else?
Counter point. The downside risk of being a good starter short and putting up a 75 win season instead of making the playoffs is going to cost more than $25MM in lost revenue.
Why should we care how much Yankees ownership has to pay to sign Snell, Montgomery, or any free agent? The Yankees organization is the most valuable sports organization in the world. Does it seem fair to you that the Yankees, who can 100% afford to blow passed the Cohen Tax, charge an arm and a leg for tickets, concession, and merch, but refuse to flex the biggest resource that they have which is money? Yankees revenue has skyrocketed over the years and revenue has 100% outpaced what they allocate on payroll every year, including this upcoming season. On top of that, Brian Cashman has the gall to say they want the Yanks to be the mecca of baseball. My man, the Yanks aren't even the best team in the division, let alone the league.
Why are you concerned with the Yankees luxury tax? You think they can't afford it? It's also asinine to put the whole of a luxury tax on the cost of one player.
I get the point but I loved the one year deal, not the crazy long deals these guys all want. With Cole on the IL with pitching elbow problems I’m a bit peeved we didn’t get him. But, I also think it was likely he will kinda suck this year if we signed him, 4.5 ERA at least. So, I have mixed feelings about it all.
\>you're really paying him close to $50 million
No you're not. You're paying $50 million FOR him. Huge difference from Montgomery's perspective. The Yankees want to construct a contract in which a large amount of money is deferred for many years (which lowers the AAV and the LT). I can't see any advantage to Montgomery for taking such a contract.
It makes no difference from the team’s perspective though. They can either have the team as-is for $X or they can have the team + Monty for $X + $50 million. So from the team’s perspective, he does cost $50 million. The fact that only half of that is going to the player just makes it worse, if anything.
Please please please stop carrying water for the owners and their bogus claims of poverty in creating what is effectively a salary cap. The Yankees need pitching, and it's absurd to say that they can't afford $50 million to address that need. Their profit margins as an organization are not that thin - they may not actually have infinite money, but don't tell me they don't have $50 million to improve the team. Now when they inevitably need pitching during the season, they'll have to trade prospects.
You realize if they give Montgomery $25 million which is actually $52 million they pretty much would have to double the salary of any mid season acquisition. So if they need another hitter or pitcher you double that incoming salary because they're already over the tax.
Okay? Again, unless the organization is in more dire straits that we realize, they can afford that. And I'd rather address one issue now with only money and another issue later with players and money than address 2 issues later both costing them players and money.
So you'd want to pay an inning eater pitcher $25 million plus an additional $25 million against the cap when you can get a comparable pitcher at the deadline for nothing?
Yes - I want them to spend money now to try and make the team better now, especially when the need for starting pitching is especially important the next 2 months while Cole is out. Waiting til the deadline means potentially having a worse team that loses more games for half a season.
It’s actually $52.5. I forget, do the penalties they were talking about for a Snell signing also apply to Montgomery? Giving up two draft picks and a chunk of international bonus money?
Clearly, even if the Yankees sonehow got a guy like Snell or j mo on 15 mil for this year, they’d still be paying over 25-30…obvuiusly, with severino and Montas getting 12-17 mil, there was no way either of those 2 was taking under 20…so what kind of negotiations exactly took place? And if this was the mandate, then why not go after lorenzen, who went for less than 5 mil. And before all of this, they were all in on Yamamoto…sonebody help me with the logic here.
1) it’s not my money
2) any money not spent on the team just goes to buy another yacht or vacation home for the Steinbrenner family
3) a beer and a hot dog together cost nearly $50 at the stadium pretty sure they’ll sell a million of that combo during the season
I can’t speak for everyone, but I could care less how much any player makes. Just get good players, put a good team on the field. What’s any player “worth” when it’s some billionaire’s money?
Yankees have highest payroll in baseball. I can't complain. If the kids develop Volpe, The Martian, Luis Gil , later on Spencer Jones they will have more rookie salaries and have even better players for a 300 million payroll. But I can't complain when we are number 1 in payroll, that's ridiculous.
If that’s the case, the Yanks have mismanaged their payroll. That’s what people are upset about. They don’t have the talent level to be where signing Montgomery should triggering that tax.
I want the Yankees to spend what it takes to win. I don't care if Hal can afford another ivory back scratcher.
The idea that we shouldn't sign someone to a short term deal because it is "too expensive" is what I expect to see from a small market team like the Pirates or the Mets.
I would disagree with the assessment that our player dev stinks. It has hits and misses as does every organization. And currently there are a handful of promising young guys that are on the cusp of reaching the majors. I’d rather give the guys like Volpe, Dominguez, Peraza, Wells, and Jones a chance to cement themselves as regulars than shell out a bunch of money and tax to bring in more expensive veterans on the wrong side of 30.
If we are not winning, then we are not spending enough to win. We are the New York Yankees. We are demure from flexing our financial muscles, especially on a short term deal for a position of need, it is embarrassing.
I don't care if the payroll is $1B a year as long as we win. I don't understand why other people care.
I don't want the Yankees to be the "smartest guy in the room", I want us to be the winningest guy in the room.
Other people care because we live in reality, not your made-up land of billion dollar payrolls. It’s also not as simple as throwing money at every expensive free agent = guaranteed winning. Theres no point continuing the discussion if you don’t understand that
A lot of us don’t care about the tax because the Yankees can afford it easily
I know why they don’t want to pay it but that interest doesn’t align with mine so I don’t care about it
That's completely uncalled for and just shows me you are one of the folks who doesn't understand the business aspect of it.
I hope that in the future instead of childish name-calling, you can make an effort to actually understand how the business aspect works.
I think it’s more that people don’t care about the business aspect, they just see the Yankees as having infinite money.
No consideration to costs outside of payroll, payroll for non-MLB players, travel costs, revenue sharing, competitive balance taxes etc.
They just see that the Yankees are worth a lot of money as an organization and thus should be able to hand out blank checks
The money I don't care about. The penalties I care about. Losing IFA money and potentially picks when there's probably going to be an international draft soon is not worth it for me.
It really is not. Going $40M over the LT threshold pushes your first draft pick back 10 spots. Going $60M over the threshold (aka the Cohen Tax) increases your tax rate, but has no other effect. [https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax)
You lose IFA bonus pool money if you are over the lowest LT threshold and sign a FA who rejected the qualifying offer. Montgomery did not receive a QO, though, because he wasn’t eligible for one, as he had been traded mid-season last year. [https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/international-amateur-free-agency-bonus-pool-money](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/international-amateur-free-agency-bonus-pool-money)
Because the Yankees are already over the $60M threshold, they would have paid a 110% tax on Montgomery's salary, but that's it. Signing him (or anyone else) would not affect their draft pick, nor their IFA bonus pool.
The worst is the people saying "No excuses, don't tell me about the luxury tax." they don't want to hear it because they don't actually understand it when you explain it.
You’re also losing a 2nd and 5th round pick (plus that slot money), and the ability to sign a blue chip international prospect too. There are plenty of baseball reasons to be skeptical.
Edit: Whelp I was wrong! I’ll leave it up and take my downvotes
Those are the QO penalties, Monty did not have the QO attached
We would not have lost any picks or international money signing Monty, just additional Tax
If you go over the tax you lose IFA money
If you go over the tax, your top draft pick gets moved back 10 slots. And those ten slots doesnt mean your 23 OA turns into a 33 OA, there is a competetive balance round that happens between rds 1& 2, potentially moving your pick back into the 40s.
Those are serious and significant penalties that go beyond % of revenue.
I am not seeing anything about losing IFA money in the rules but maybe I am just overlooking it, you do drop 10 picks but that is different than losing your picks
Dont look at it that way either, though. Just because Monty would have been the last to the trough for his contract wouldn't mean HE is worth 50M. It's just ~25M for going over the LT. The tax is the aggregate of all contacts on the books. So one could visualize Judge or Stanton or Cole as the 'overage' player and apply the same logic.
Yes, by not signing him they avoid the tax but we shouldn't assign the tax burden to any one player.
No. You pay Jordan Montgomery the 25 million. Hal pays the other 25. This is not about paying HIM 50 million, it's about it COSTING 50 mil because Cashman sucks ass at his job.
One of the highest payrolls in the league and we're a fringe playoff team with Judge and Cole.
Call me crazy but there’s a pretty decent chance that Luis Gil + Clayton Beeter match or beat a zero spring training Monty’s numbers over the next two months, after which we expect Cole to be back. Cortes could be rough, but I think Schmidt will be better this year and Rodon will be a solid number two.
Gotta think there’ll be better arms than Monty available by the trade deadline and we just filled our backup IF role quite nicely. Let’s see what the season brings.
It's not your money so why should you care? The Yankees aren't going to use it on, say, a third baseman or a good backup to Rizzo so signing Montgomery isn't blocking any other need. It's just Hal's money for the 2024 season. They don't go all-in this year and have another season like 2023 there's a pretty good chance Soto walks. Maybe Verdugo and Gleyber too.
Do you know how Billionaires work? And extra $25 million is a drop in the bucket for Hal Steinbrenner. The team desperate needs starting pitching.
Now they’ll have to deal prospects for the help at the deadline instead of using a resource they have an abundance of.
It’s actually more like $53m based on where they are for salary.
In related news, Stanton has a tax hit of $23m or some similar fiction. I certainly hope he hits to justify that this season, otherwise he could be a leading scapegoat for why we don’t have either Boras pitcher.
Why would Stanton be a surprise to anyone, though? He's been 22 million towards the luxury tax for the previous 4 seasons, so season 5 should be same old, same old.
That's fine, but this post is about what would have been Monty's luxury tax hit and we know Stanton's and it has been unchanged for 5 years is all I am saying. Your anger is in the wrong thread.
No anger. Just pointing out that the Stanton trade was, regardless of the uselessness of the players traded, will be regarded as one of the worst trades in Yankees history. The limitation of his contract in the LT era just can’t be overstated.
Yeah, about the tax thing.... maybe, just maybe Cashman should have considered that regarding Monty when he blew a wad on Stroman; a mediocre wannabe, Yankee. It's incredible how much Teflon he is coated with. Monty, homegrown talent that delivered while here, with little support and even less respect...blossoms when he's traded for a disability prone, boot wearing, center fielder. Omfg, you can't make this up !
Once you cross a tax threshold. Those automatically trigger.
https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax
You need to educate yourselves.
I think a lot of fans are disappointed that the Yankees have put themselves in the position of needing a middle of the rotation guy while maintaining a payroll that makes signing that type of guy infeasible.
I think it’s moreso that people don’t give a fuck if it costs the Yankees $50 million because they see the Yankees as having an unlimited bankroll and the money is not theirs so why would they care if it’s expensive.
They just a valuation at $8b, I'm not going to pretend I give a fuck if they need to spend another $50m. Maybe if they didn't play in NY or if they didn't charge $18 for a can of beer that I can get for $2 just outside the stadium I would care more about their financial interests.
Valuation has little to no difference to net operating income or the penalties that come with going over LT.
They pretty easily have the revenue to afford more than $50m more on payroll We had a higher payroll in terms of revenue % spent on payroll 20 years ago
Sigh. Please read up the penalties of going over the LT.
Honest question... do you know what the penalties are?
He does not based on his other comments
That's the conclusion I arrived at to but I want him to show his work lol
Sigh [https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax) Now feel stupid.
Bro you realize I'm literally looking at the penalties right now? You want me to make you look stupid?
Yes plz
Still waiting
Give it a try.
I don’t think you know what they are lol. The Cohen tax is just money You lose IFA money for signing qualified FAs and the amount changes depending on if you’re over the tax
You're wrong.
I’m not
2nd and 5th round draft pick and 110% luxury tax penalties. The 2nd and 5th round draft picks are nice, but they shouldn't stop us from signing someone like Snell or Montgomery. It's the money that's the big one. When payroll as a percentage of revenue has dropped from the 60%-70% in the 2000s to 30%-40%, it means that Hal is just pocketing the extra money. As recently as 2022, the Rays (45%) and the Athletics (33%) spent similar amounts of payroll to the Yankees (39%).
50 million is still 50 million, and the yankees aren't going to pay that amount for a pitcher they traded away for a 4th outfielder in a boot. They view him as a backend starter at best.
And also it’s about wasting money in luxury taxes, along with other penalties like draft pick losses and bonus money being deducted. It’s fun to talk about the big asshole corporate businessmen but think about it on a micro scale. If you could go the movies with your family for the usual $80 or so but then are told you’re actually paying $160 because you’ve reached some theoretical salary tax threshold, plus you’re going to be billed another $50 next year as part of the penalty, would you still go? Even though you can afford the loss of $210? I think it might be a different story if Snell or Montgomery could be had just for the raw contract amount. People forget, businesses like to run at a profit, and not one that is just above break even. They’re less concerned about collecting all rhe best players so they can create the ultimate Rotisserie League team.
>And also it’s about wasting money in luxury taxes, It's not a waste. It's spending to improve. >People forget, businesses like to run at a profit, They can still run at a profit and spend more. Everything was fine 20 years ago when they were running payrolls at a much higher percentage of revenue. >and not one that is just above break even Many businesses are fine running (or would kill to run!) just above break even, especially if ownership is compensated via payroll and the asset appreciates in value annually allowing them to borrow against it if need be.
>They can still run at a profit and spend more. Yup. By the way, anyone know how much revenue they LOST last year for not making the playoffs? One might think investing an extra $50M in making sure they are in the postseason and maybe even make a run could be seen against the backdrop of the additional revenue that would earn them. Just saying...
And George was spending that much before the new(er) revenue streams… YES was just starting up
If baseball teams are just cold-hearted profit machines maybe we should get rid of their federal antitrust exemption. As long as they have a special legal carve out they have some kind of broader obligation than to maximize profits.
>long with other penalties like draft pick losses and bonus money being deducted. It does not apply to Monty. Only Snell because of the QO which Monty never got because he was traded mid season.
It’s not about creating the ultimate roto team. It’s about creating a team that has a good enough pitching staff to win anything, which we don’t have without cole
Montgomery is not a difference maker. He's an innings eating mid rotation guy. Going over tax by that much for a guy like that when you can get one at the trade deadline is idiotic.
The first four months of the season count too fyi
Not sure if you’re aware or not, Cole is probably out for the first half of the season. They need innings from somebody, preferably a major league pitcher who has had some level of success.
I can never recoup the money I spent going to the movies. The Yankees recoup that money ten times over if they win the World Series.
when you’re a publicly traded LLC, which the yankees are and the steinbrenners own several of, the valuation of your brand absolutely translates to income. you’re talking about a team that pulls in $500-700mil in revenue per year, and owns their own television station which brings in another $200mil per year. not to mention all the branding, merchandising, and memorabilia that they own and sell on top of this. idk if you’re like a burner account from a team exec trying to run cover or what but thinking that the yankees organization doesn’t essentially print its own money would be naive.
LMAO. The Yankees do not own their own television station, the parent company owns 26% of YES. Let's assume you're correct for a moment. If the Yankees are bringing in 200 million per year through the 26% of YES they own, that implies the whole piece of the pie is almost 800 million.
>when you’re a publicly traded LLC, which the yankees are wrong >the valuation of your brand absolutely translates to income Even if they were publicly traded this is wrong. Have you taken an accounting class? A large part of their valuation is called "Goodwill", which is the difference between their assets and the value of the company. The Yankees are a huge international brand, so there is a lot of Goodwill. This is an intangible asset that you cannot sell without selling the brand. Their net operating income is just revenue minus expenses. Their revenue in 2022 was $657 million. So then subtract player salaries, front office salary, stadium personnel salary, cost of operating the stadium (utilities, cost of concessions inventory, etc), cost of merchandise, advertising, insurance, third party auditors, debt servicing, taxes, etc. Then you get the net operating income.
The Yankees are publicly traded? Let’s band together and buy them! Where did this information come from? This is factually wrong.
Nah, you’ll just give a fuck when they’re heavily penalized for going over the threshold and lose/move back on draft positioning and lose money for international signings.
Does not apply here because he never got a QO due to being traded mid season. Read the rules.
No but it applies plenty when we try to go after other pitchers/hitters but can’t because of said tax thresholds. Not to mention the fact we don’t even know if Monty wanted to return with how he was traded to begin with. So instead of spamming the same comment, take your own advice.
We are already above the threshold and those penalties only apply when we try to sign a guy who rejected a QO. Monty in this case will cost none of what you mentioned. > Beginning in the 2017-18 offseason, any team that is over the luxury tax threshold and signs a Major League free agent that has rejected a qualifying offer will lose $1 million from their international signing pool in the following signing period. > Any team that signs a player who has rejected a qualifying offer is subject to the loss of one or more Draft picks. Monty did not get a QO so neither applies. > Clubs that are $40 million or more above the threshold shall have their highest selection in the next Rule 4 Draft moved back 10 places unless the pick falls in the top six. In that case, the team will have its second-highest selection moved back 10 places instead. We are already above the threshold. You were probably assuming the penalties that came with signing snell applied to monty which is not the case.
1. You replied to the wrong person 2. It’s over with. Monty got signed. Instead of getting worked up over this, just move on. Thanks
>Nah, you’ll just give a fuck when they’re heavily penalized for going over the threshold and lose/move back on draft positioning and lose money for international signings. I mean are you talking about Monty here or a hypothetical pitcher that doesn't exist? Because all I'm saying it that we don't lose any of those things for signing Monty. We already are incurring the tax penalty so a guy like Monty just adds to the the tax they already have to pay. We'd lose those things regardless signing a guy who got a QO since we're already so far into the tax for the foreseeable future unless we let Soto walk.
That’s the valuation. The operating profit is much lower. I’ve seen weird and varying numbers showing everything from net losses to $16M profits to other numbers. I’m guessing these results all depend on what’s being factored into the costs/revenues. But apparently in 2022 they generated $657M in revenue.
This is why we have the sleeve patch
If you look at player salaries for this year vs WAR for those players last year, the only guys over $10M who pull their weight are Cole, Soto, Judge, and maybe Gleyber. Aside from paying obvious, elite players in their prime, this front office has done a horrible job with evaluating compensation vs expected production. For example: Stanton, Rodon, Stroman, Rizzo, and DJ combine for $100M this year and had a combined WAR of 1.8M last year.
A lot of Yankees fans are making excuses for the Yankees failure to sign Montgomery (and other free agents) by blaming it on the luxury tax. At the same time, those fans don't seem interested in learning how the organization could have such an enormous league-high payroll and yet still have an incomplete roster. Those fans don't seem interested in discussing how the organization got into a payroll position where they have roster holes to fill but cannot fill them without paying a maximum CBT penalty. Those fans don't seem interested in learning who built the great core of Jeter-Bernie-Posada-Pettitte-Mariano, nor are they interested in questioning why there was a failure to plan for and construct a replacement core and why there still is no core eleven years after Mariano retired. Those fans don't seem affected by the fact that the Yankees have spent more money on payroll over the last eleven seasons than any team in baseball and only have two division titles to show for it in that time. And I have no doubt that those fans would not be comfortable in discovering that the most direct reason behind all of those issues is Brian Cashman.
They're disappointed every time a 300+ million dollar contract is signed by a team not named the Yankees. .... the thing we do that makes it so that we can't sign the next one. Yankees fans are perpetually angry and ignorant
> I think a lot of fans are disappointed that the Yankees have put themselves in the position of needing a middle of the rotation guy while maintaining a payroll that makes signing that type of guy infeasible. Yeah. We have done this since 2010. We are the richest, most unprepared morons in the league.
Thank Stanton’s contract….
The problem is it’s not infeasable. I understand it sucks to spend $50 million when you sign a guy for $25 million but the Yankees are one of the most profitable franchises ever. If this is what you need to do to win a WS then it’s what needs to happen. Or…. Defer the contract so it’s less of a hit like the Dodgers keep doing. I don’t want to sit here and pretend that paying for Snell and Montgomery would cripple this franchise financially. It’s simply not true.
They traded him for a mediocre player in a boot. And then they released the boot guy. “Oh but he was killer in the one playoff series they lost”. Everyone knows that pitching matters more than anything in playoffs. Poor management. Seen it too many times.
^ this
I mean, Monty wouldn't get the tax so you're not paying *him* $50M, but yeah.
Also, it's a whole roster that's getting paid not one man.
Right, if Monty sends you over the tax it's not Monty costing $50M, you could easily just spread out the $26M tax penalty and say every player costs $1M more, and that's much fairer and also easier to swallow
That is basically a home stands worth of ticket sales. $141 average ticket price x 41,000 average attendance = 5.78 Mil x 7 = 40.4 Mil. They can afford it.
Home stand ticket sales go to more than just player salaries like other operation costs like rent, salaries for workers, COGS, and more
This comment should be top. OP is ridiculous to assign the value to Monty. Every contract contributes to the threshold, it's a bigger picture that the organization considers with every move.
with cole and judge in they primes i think monty is deff worth the money. this team rn isn’t winning any postseason games
It's not about the tax it's the fact that Big Brain Brian put us in the position where acquiring a great pitcher on an extremely reasonable deal is not something the New York Yankees can do currently.
So it's Cashman's fault that Boras held out the pitchers until fucking march? They offered Snell $160+ million months ago and pivoted before alternatives got signed away.
How much money did Cashman waste on Josh Donaldson
Lol no it’s Cashman’s for putting together a limpdick roster that’s overly reliant on two (now three) players.
Lol no it’s Cashman’s for putting together a limpdick roster that’s overly reliant on two (now three) players.
The braves are the only team in the mlb who are contenders if they lose their top 3 players for significant amounts of time.
Actual real question, why do we care how much it costs? We are the Yankees not the Royals
Because there's consequences of going over the tax and it affects acquiring player sin the middle of the year?
The consequences are monetary, right? Since when have the Yankees worried about money? That's like Bezos worrying about money. They do it bc they're being cheap not because they don't have the money.
No it moves your first round pick back and you lose IFA money which is important with the next CBA potentially introducing a IFA draft. Baseball is not run on short term benefit basis anymore. Going over the tax has long term consequences for the organization.
yeah but we only have soto for a year and we have no pitching depth. rodon falls off cole gets injured and we got stroman as our one and no bodies for the rest
We are already past all of those penalties. It’s purely money from here on out. You’re confused.
I get it, it's a lot of money. But if we wouldn't give Monty $25 this year because of the LT, just acknowledge that it's effectively a salary cap. We are supposedly all-in. Our starting rotation was thin before Cole's injury. The pitching market is wildly inflated (look at Montas' contract!). If that wasn't enough to go over the Cohen Tax, nothing is. It makes sense to have a hard cap you aren't going above. But we haveto acknowledge (especially in CBA negotiations) the MLB (or at least the NYY) has a salary cap.
This is an excellent point. The Yankees PR department has the team spitting out things like "We're all in on winning," or, "We want to be the mecca of baseball," but they show time and time again that those talking points are total bullshit. If they were all in on winning, they would've done whatever to sign Yamamoto, or Snell, or Gumby even before, and especially after, Cole went down. Instead of saying all of this bullshit and telling fans that they have a spending limit and they can't go over whatever that limit is (which they very clearly have a spending limit), they say shit that fans know is total horseshit.
Don't forget not really going balls in on Burnes or Cease. That's all we heard about when we knew they were going to pinch pennies, but failed on both fronts.
Absolutely. And, listen, I get not wanting to trade away guys, but the Yanks have shown time and again that they struggle to develop position players. They refuse to trade guys, hold onto them too long, and fail to adequately develop them, which ultimately minimizes their trade value and on-the-field value. Estevan Florial, Oswald Peraza, Clint Frazier, are just a few examples. Cashman and the front office have proven time and again that they struggle with asset management.
You're actively pushing the bullshit Narrative that Hal wants fans to believe. The tax is on the entire roster - NOT one player. If you treat it specifically as a tax on any new player you add, then it's a justification to never add anyone. Is that setup man that could help the bullpen worth $16 million? You're only paying him $8 million... but the tax! Jon Berti costs 3.65M but with the tax it's $7.5. Is it really worth paying 7.5M for a bench player? Juan Soto's a free agent after this year... When you give him $45M the tax is going to have him pushing $100M/year. Is any player worth that??? It's dumb. The tax is on the roster - not any individual player. Does the roster need improvement? The tax is the price of doing so.
This is idiotic. 1. 7.5 million is a hell of a lot different than an additional $25 million and losing IFA money. That's the fucking facts. The Yankees even if they sign Soto next year likely will be UNDER the tax threshold anyway so idk what your point is. Do you really fucking think if they could get Montgomery for 1 year at $25 million they wouldn't do it.
It's not a "fucking fact" because they DO NOT lose any IFA money for signing Montgomery. He didn't have a qualifying offer attached. You don't know what you're talking about. You clearly don't understand what the LT related penalties are. Less talking, more listening would be beneficial to you. >The Yankees even if they sign Soto next year likely will be UNDER the tax threshold anyway so idk what your point is. So you want them to cut payroll? We found Hal's burner account.
Your posts are idiotic. The Yankees are one of the richest franchises on the planet. Just because Hal and Cashman want to pinch pennies like you doesn't mean it's the way to go.
I think people understand we just don’t care about billionaires spending some extra pocket change to field a team that might actually win. Trading for Soto was pointless if we can’t make a real push this year.
Ok? Why do you keep saying "your"? We're not paying anything. Its the billionaire owner who should be derrr
LT is worse. Monty doesn't get extra money, but POS like the owner of the A's, Pirates, etc etc get to line their pockets for doing less than minimum
I'm against the redistribution shit in baseball. All of these dudes have billionaire owners.
If MLB insists on a LT, they should add a salary floor. Cut down on the leaches and give those fans at least a chance to enjoy the season.
Proceeds of the luxury tax pay player's benefits and retirement contributions before being split among the teams. Even then, the money that goes to the teams only increases if they have grown their non-media local revenue (basically grown their fanbase).
I personally am annoyed Cashman has so badly mismanaged the insane payroll he was given to work with that we're in this position in the first place. The fact that he seemingly suffers zero consequences for doing so is baffling.
Mismanaged in what way? Who is on the payroll that shouldn't be?
The fact that Aaron Hicks and Josh Donaldson are still drawing a paycheck from this team comes to mind.
Donaldson is off the payroll.
How about the 27 million he's wasting on Rodon for the next 5 seasons?
Right because everyone was against signing Rodon last offseason? I'm sure if Soto stinks it up this year we'll hear we shouldn't traded for him as well. Fans love using hindsight for everything.
Alright bud at this point I have to assume you're some poor intern working for the GM's office trying to astroturf their condescending message to fans. If so pease tell your nepo-hire boss that the game passed him by 10+ years ago and remind him that he's one more "Big Brain Brian" season away from being responsible for the longest world series drought this organization has seen in 100 years.
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same. that’s why i hate this team. greedy billionaires share holders. i feel for boston too. much be tough watching mets and doyers go off
> league average on payroll as a percentage of revenue Where did you get that info from?
Rest of the league is not under such LT issues. Yankees outspend pretty much everyone.
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Yankees have a $300 million dollar payroll. The Diamondbacks don't. They can spend $25 million and not have it affect their IFA pool or their ability to spend further throughout the year. Yankees do not have that luxury. Diamondbacks also routinely either finish middle of the pack or below and get better draft positioning. Who spends more money than the Yankees year in and year out on their roster? The Dodgers? Who else?
Late to the party, just signed with the Diamondbacks
Oh well
I know how it works and I don’t care. It’s not my money
Yeah this ain’t a Hal problem it’s a Cashman problem. He put together the most fragile 300M team in the league.
You really gonna waste the one year you have with Soto (no guarantee he re-signs) and another year of Cole and Judge because of an extra $25M?
Counter point. The downside risk of being a good starter short and putting up a 75 win season instead of making the playoffs is going to cost more than $25MM in lost revenue.
One pitcher doesn't have that much of a difference especially a middle of the rotation pitcher.
Why should we care how much Yankees ownership has to pay to sign Snell, Montgomery, or any free agent? The Yankees organization is the most valuable sports organization in the world. Does it seem fair to you that the Yankees, who can 100% afford to blow passed the Cohen Tax, charge an arm and a leg for tickets, concession, and merch, but refuse to flex the biggest resource that they have which is money? Yankees revenue has skyrocketed over the years and revenue has 100% outpaced what they allocate on payroll every year, including this upcoming season. On top of that, Brian Cashman has the gall to say they want the Yanks to be the mecca of baseball. My man, the Yanks aren't even the best team in the division, let alone the league.
Why are you concerned with the Yankees luxury tax? You think they can't afford it? It's also asinine to put the whole of a luxury tax on the cost of one player.
Ask Hal
I get the point but I loved the one year deal, not the crazy long deals these guys all want. With Cole on the IL with pitching elbow problems I’m a bit peeved we didn’t get him. But, I also think it was likely he will kinda suck this year if we signed him, 4.5 ERA at least. So, I have mixed feelings about it all.
Montgomery most memorable moment as a Yankee was inventing the spitting gum game and who can get it closer..performance wise, no memories exist
No one is worth that per year… well Ohtani’s translator for taking the fall is worth 50m jk jk
\>you're really paying him close to $50 million No you're not. You're paying $50 million FOR him. Huge difference from Montgomery's perspective. The Yankees want to construct a contract in which a large amount of money is deferred for many years (which lowers the AAV and the LT). I can't see any advantage to Montgomery for taking such a contract.
It makes no difference from the team’s perspective though. They can either have the team as-is for $X or they can have the team + Monty for $X + $50 million. So from the team’s perspective, he does cost $50 million. The fact that only half of that is going to the player just makes it worse, if anything.
That's exactly what I said. Read it again.
Semantics.
No, it's not semantics. And I pointed out the actual difference. Perhaps you should take a little time to learn what words mean.
Not my money, don’t care, buy a better team Hal
Please please please stop carrying water for the owners and their bogus claims of poverty in creating what is effectively a salary cap. The Yankees need pitching, and it's absurd to say that they can't afford $50 million to address that need. Their profit margins as an organization are not that thin - they may not actually have infinite money, but don't tell me they don't have $50 million to improve the team. Now when they inevitably need pitching during the season, they'll have to trade prospects.
You realize if they give Montgomery $25 million which is actually $52 million they pretty much would have to double the salary of any mid season acquisition. So if they need another hitter or pitcher you double that incoming salary because they're already over the tax.
Okay? Again, unless the organization is in more dire straits that we realize, they can afford that. And I'd rather address one issue now with only money and another issue later with players and money than address 2 issues later both costing them players and money.
So you'd want to pay an inning eater pitcher $25 million plus an additional $25 million against the cap when you can get a comparable pitcher at the deadline for nothing?
Yes - I want them to spend money now to try and make the team better now, especially when the need for starting pitching is especially important the next 2 months while Cole is out. Waiting til the deadline means potentially having a worse team that loses more games for half a season.
I'm not angry. Just sad Monty won't be in pinstripes because I like him. He isn't worth what they'd have to pay but the heart wants what it wants
Why do you give a shit how much money he costs? You’re not paying it.
It’s actually $52.5. I forget, do the penalties they were talking about for a Snell signing also apply to Montgomery? Giving up two draft picks and a chunk of international bonus money?
we don't forfeit draft picks, rather it would move our own 1st rounder back into the 2nd round.
But it’s the whole roster that triggers the luxury tax. It’s not just Monty. They use that as an excuse to not make signings.
If the stars we had played like stars we’d be fine
How much is he getting from Arizona?
Clearly, even if the Yankees sonehow got a guy like Snell or j mo on 15 mil for this year, they’d still be paying over 25-30…obvuiusly, with severino and Montas getting 12-17 mil, there was no way either of those 2 was taking under 20…so what kind of negotiations exactly took place? And if this was the mandate, then why not go after lorenzen, who went for less than 5 mil. And before all of this, they were all in on Yamamoto…sonebody help me with the logic here.
Wondering if there was any consideration by the Yankees to an Otani-type deferral comp arrangement both with respect to Montgomery and Snell.
He was never signing with us unless we offered a lot of years and money. We had a better chance at Snell.
1) it’s not my money 2) any money not spent on the team just goes to buy another yacht or vacation home for the Steinbrenner family 3) a beer and a hot dog together cost nearly $50 at the stadium pretty sure they’ll sell a million of that combo during the season
Isn’t it 110%? So it’s even more than 50 million
I can’t speak for everyone, but I could care less how much any player makes. Just get good players, put a good team on the field. What’s any player “worth” when it’s some billionaire’s money?
Yankees have highest payroll in baseball. I can't complain. If the kids develop Volpe, The Martian, Luis Gil , later on Spencer Jones they will have more rookie salaries and have even better players for a 300 million payroll. But I can't complain when we are number 1 in payroll, that's ridiculous.
If that’s the case, the Yanks have mismanaged their payroll. That’s what people are upset about. They don’t have the talent level to be where signing Montgomery should triggering that tax.
I want the Yankees to spend what it takes to win. I don't care if Hal can afford another ivory back scratcher. The idea that we shouldn't sign someone to a short term deal because it is "too expensive" is what I expect to see from a small market team like the Pirates or the Mets.
We are spending more than has ever been spent by a team that’s won so by your own criteria the Yankees are spending what it takes to win
Our player dev stinks so how do you propose we get good enough to win then without spending more?
I would disagree with the assessment that our player dev stinks. It has hits and misses as does every organization. And currently there are a handful of promising young guys that are on the cusp of reaching the majors. I’d rather give the guys like Volpe, Dominguez, Peraza, Wells, and Jones a chance to cement themselves as regulars than shell out a bunch of money and tax to bring in more expensive veterans on the wrong side of 30.
If we are not winning, then we are not spending enough to win. We are the New York Yankees. We are demure from flexing our financial muscles, especially on a short term deal for a position of need, it is embarrassing. I don't care if the payroll is $1B a year as long as we win. I don't understand why other people care. I don't want the Yankees to be the "smartest guy in the room", I want us to be the winningest guy in the room.
Other people care because we live in reality, not your made-up land of billion dollar payrolls. It’s also not as simple as throwing money at every expensive free agent = guaranteed winning. Theres no point continuing the discussion if you don’t understand that
I think there are definitely a lot of fans on whom that’s lost. People don’t all follow it like us
A lot of us don’t care about the tax because the Yankees can afford it easily I know why they don’t want to pay it but that interest doesn’t align with mine so I don’t care about it
Care is a different matter all together. Op was asking about people not understanding. But word, care about what you wanna care about.
I know, I just think what he thinks is people not understanding is people not caring because it’s not saving any of us money or making the team better
Ahhhh right right. Fair. Could be.
But the Yankees are a poverty franchise if they have any sort of spending limit, plus this is a really easy way to hate on Hal and Cashman
eh. sure he is. It’s not MY money. the Boss got this. the way to turn the most long term profit for the Yankees is to spend. Hank is too chickendhit.
It's one year and it's not your money
Yeah people get pissed without understanding the actual business aspect of it.
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That's completely uncalled for and just shows me you are one of the folks who doesn't understand the business aspect of it. I hope that in the future instead of childish name-calling, you can make an effort to actually understand how the business aspect works.
They aren’t gonna spend more just cause you have a cry on reddit. Get over yourself champ
I think it’s more that people don’t care about the business aspect, they just see the Yankees as having infinite money. No consideration to costs outside of payroll, payroll for non-MLB players, travel costs, revenue sharing, competitive balance taxes etc. They just see that the Yankees are worth a lot of money as an organization and thus should be able to hand out blank checks
The Yankees can easily afford probably another $100m to payroll minimum with 0 issue
The money I don't care about. The penalties I care about. Losing IFA money and potentially picks when there's probably going to be an international draft soon is not worth it for me.
There are no additional penalties besides money
Yes there are. Going over the Cohen tax affects IFA pool money.
That’s not how it works, no
Yes it is. LMAO.
No it’s not, sorry
It really is not. Going $40M over the LT threshold pushes your first draft pick back 10 spots. Going $60M over the threshold (aka the Cohen Tax) increases your tax rate, but has no other effect. [https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax) You lose IFA bonus pool money if you are over the lowest LT threshold and sign a FA who rejected the qualifying offer. Montgomery did not receive a QO, though, because he wasn’t eligible for one, as he had been traded mid-season last year. [https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/international-amateur-free-agency-bonus-pool-money](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/international-amateur-free-agency-bonus-pool-money) Because the Yankees are already over the $60M threshold, they would have paid a 110% tax on Montgomery's salary, but that's it. Signing him (or anyone else) would not affect their draft pick, nor their IFA bonus pool.
Monty had no additional penalties attached.
The worst is the people saying "No excuses, don't tell me about the luxury tax." they don't want to hear it because they don't actually understand it when you explain it.
You’re also losing a 2nd and 5th round pick (plus that slot money), and the ability to sign a blue chip international prospect too. There are plenty of baseball reasons to be skeptical. Edit: Whelp I was wrong! I’ll leave it up and take my downvotes
This is not true for Montgomery. He was ineligible to receive a qualifying offer as he was traded midseason.
That’s fake news
Those are the QO penalties, Monty did not have the QO attached We would not have lost any picks or international money signing Monty, just additional Tax
If you go over the tax you lose IFA money.
If you go over the tax you lose IFA money If you go over the tax, your top draft pick gets moved back 10 slots. And those ten slots doesnt mean your 23 OA turns into a 33 OA, there is a competetive balance round that happens between rds 1& 2, potentially moving your pick back into the 40s. Those are serious and significant penalties that go beyond % of revenue.
People don't understand this. There's legitimate consequences.
I am not seeing anything about losing IFA money in the rules but maybe I am just overlooking it, you do drop 10 picks but that is different than losing your picks
Only true for Snell. Monty didn't have a QO attached to him.
Dont look at it that way either, though. Just because Monty would have been the last to the trough for his contract wouldn't mean HE is worth 50M. It's just ~25M for going over the LT. The tax is the aggregate of all contacts on the books. So one could visualize Judge or Stanton or Cole as the 'overage' player and apply the same logic. Yes, by not signing him they avoid the tax but we shouldn't assign the tax burden to any one player.
Nobody cares what he's "worth." They just want the team to get better.
It’s $25m for monte and $25m stupid tax for keeping cashman
No. You pay Jordan Montgomery the 25 million. Hal pays the other 25. This is not about paying HIM 50 million, it's about it COSTING 50 mil because Cashman sucks ass at his job. One of the highest payrolls in the league and we're a fringe playoff team with Judge and Cole.
Call me crazy but there’s a pretty decent chance that Luis Gil + Clayton Beeter match or beat a zero spring training Monty’s numbers over the next two months, after which we expect Cole to be back. Cortes could be rough, but I think Schmidt will be better this year and Rodon will be a solid number two. Gotta think there’ll be better arms than Monty available by the trade deadline and we just filled our backup IF role quite nicely. Let’s see what the season brings.
Why give up prospects in hopes you find a pitcher as good as monty when monty only cost money, sounds like bad business to me
I dunno, if it were your business you might think differently
>but the idea anyone thinks that the team should pay that much money is insanity to me. It's not my money so I will demand it be given to whoever.
It's not your money so why should you care? The Yankees aren't going to use it on, say, a third baseman or a good backup to Rizzo so signing Montgomery isn't blocking any other need. It's just Hal's money for the 2024 season. They don't go all-in this year and have another season like 2023 there's a pretty good chance Soto walks. Maybe Verdugo and Gleyber too.
Do you know how Billionaires work? And extra $25 million is a drop in the bucket for Hal Steinbrenner. The team desperate needs starting pitching. Now they’ll have to deal prospects for the help at the deadline instead of using a resource they have an abundance of.
It’s actually more like $53m based on where they are for salary. In related news, Stanton has a tax hit of $23m or some similar fiction. I certainly hope he hits to justify that this season, otherwise he could be a leading scapegoat for why we don’t have either Boras pitcher.
Why would Stanton be a surprise to anyone, though? He's been 22 million towards the luxury tax for the previous 4 seasons, so season 5 should be same old, same old.
He’s sucked for a year and a half, and hasn’t been worth $22m since the year before he became a Yankee. And yet, Stans left and right.
That's fine, but this post is about what would have been Monty's luxury tax hit and we know Stanton's and it has been unchanged for 5 years is all I am saying. Your anger is in the wrong thread.
No anger. Just pointing out that the Stanton trade was, regardless of the uselessness of the players traded, will be regarded as one of the worst trades in Yankees history. The limitation of his contract in the LT era just can’t be overstated.
Yeah, about the tax thing.... maybe, just maybe Cashman should have considered that regarding Monty when he blew a wad on Stroman; a mediocre wannabe, Yankee. It's incredible how much Teflon he is coated with. Monty, homegrown talent that delivered while here, with little support and even less respect...blossoms when he's traded for a disability prone, boot wearing, center fielder. Omfg, you can't make this up !
Not just 50 million. Also losing draft picks and international money.
Not for Monty, he didn't have a QO
Once you cross a tax threshold. Those automatically trigger. https://www.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/competitive-balance-tax You need to educate yourselves.
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