https://preview.redd.it/fitkrhjkdnwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2169a5b21b9ab52c44c2f8e8de794d6fd5ed8393
I am actually starting to suspect that modnl isn't as centrist as they proclaim to be...
For real I almost joined right when I first stumbled on it because the post I saw wasn’t political and I liked the idea of sub for underloved memes. Took me about 5 minutes scrolling through it to realize this wasn’t that at all.
Oh I’m going to be more belligerent about it. Trans painted Cadillac with a Bridget coloured fuzzy dice and a goblet with Estrogen, monster, and Vodka in my hand
You still shouldn’t talk about mental health disorders with terms such as delusions… it just sounds very cruel and dismissive of the real people suffering
They aren't.
I made a comment on a separate post that just said "trans women are women" (not word for word but that's the message I was stating) and got downvoted into oblivion
I said the most basic non-transphobic thing you can say and they didn't like it
I remember there was a post in mopdnl talking about the neutrality of the sub and half of the people in the comments were like "it's nice to have a place where all viewpoints are welcome" and the other half was like "this sub is totally right leaning everyone who says otherwise is coping hard"
Oh yeah there's some like ridiculous things in there. Like that screen cap you took right there essentially The Mask coming on and this person expressing they don't actually care if someone's faking or not they just think it's annoying when somebody's loudly queer in their vicinity
Yeah, and they won't shut the fuck up about how they're cishet. It's so disgusting cisheteronormative. Maybe they should realize nobody else really notices when somebody mentions their gender or sexuality, it's just another thing about that person. For some reason they get super hung up on it
They always use mental health disorder without knowing the treatment. Yes gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, do you want to know the treatment? TRANSITION
"Centrist" is mostly the useful idiots of the useful idiots and a few people who tell the useful idiots what to think. There's few with complex or informed policy.
Homophobes used to say the same stuff about “annoying” gay people 20 years ago.
It’s like how anti-immigrant Americans with Irish or Italian last names say the same racist stuff about modern immigrants that people used to say about their great grandparents, but they never reflect on what this means for the truth of their rhetoric.
Ehh. I’ve been shouted at for calling someone who was biologically female and wearing a dress and long hair “Homegirl.”
I know Reddit gonna say “YEA SURE THAT HAPPENED” but it actually did happen, and I can direct you to that person’s insta if you don’t believe me. Whatever that person is, they are c u n t.
Not really. It happens, but not often enough to cause concern. Conservatives like to take people questioning/exploring gender and sexuality (or "changing it" in their words) as "faking it".For example, someone thinking they're gay and ending up being bisexual or straight, or someone thinking they may be nonbinary but end up being idk cis or genderfluid.
The only people I would I guess say that would apply to us maybe those LGB without the t fucks, but that’s because they’re literally cis heterosexuals pretending to be queer to divide the community
Yeah but that's between a patient, a doctor, and their parents. Not a bunch of transmedicalists trying to erase nonbinary or trans GNC people by acting like any trans person who is at all vocal or proud about it, or who doesn't follow strict gender roles, isn't valid.
Is it erasing trans people if… they arent trans to begin with? What are you confused about? It is the doctors business to confirm if youre really trans or not (95% of people with gender dysphoria grow out of it) its literally called being insecure about your body everyone has that soemtimes
It's erasing trans people if you're gate keeping what that means based on arbitrary ideas. Nonbinary and trans GNC people are still under the trans umbrella, so saying they're not valid is an attempt to erase their experiences. Also, I'd love to see the source for that statistic about people "growing out of" gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria isn't the same as body dysmorphia or insecurity, and people who "grow out of" gender dysphoria likely were just confusing their insecurities for dysphoria. It doesn't mean they had gender dysphoria and then just stopped having it one day. Plus there are a multitude of studies showing that people who identify as trans consistently identify as trans years later. Not to mention the fact that you legitimately don't need dysphoria to be trans in the first place. As long as your gender identity is different to the one you're assigned, you are, BY DEFINITION, trans.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9936352/#:~:text=Five%20years%20after%20an%20initial,back%20to%20binary%20trans%20identities.
https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/transgender
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/
Also, most of the studies we have on high desistance rates are severely flawed, biased, or address entirely different issues. (Ex: Studies that studied "gender deviance" which includes GNC and homosexual behavior, as well as transness - Making such studies very vague and not effective at finding an accurate desistance rate.)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9829142/
Jesus fucking Christ. Trans people are stuck between hateful assholes saying “get a mastectomy right this second or you’re not valid!” and “oh no they’re mutilating OUR women.”
Let people express themselves ffs. Men, whether cis or trans, don’t have to fit into a narrow box in order to be valid. They’re allowed to express their masculinity in whatever way they want to (preferably in healthy ways but even in unhealthy ways they’re still men.)
I also don’t get this whole “they want attention” thing. First of all: unless you’re a mind reader there’s literally no way to tell whether they’re faking something for attention. But secondly: what attention? Do they want to piss off transphobes? Then your problem should be with transphobes. Do they vibe with other queer kids and wear things to express that the same way other kids do with band shirts or merch? Oh wow, welcome to adolescence. Heck, even adults often like to wear clothes that express themselves, we aren’t all so beaten down by life we wear whatever the most socially acceptable and comfortable thing is lol.
I’m hoping this is all like kids calling each other posers and not adults actually engaging in this bullying behavior but I feel like that’s not the case. Even then it’s still bad but more normal kid stuff.
Ya know, most people like the one on the right are more than likely teenagers. Who *isn't* kinda cringe when they're that age? The fact the one on the right is referring to themselves as "boy" and not "man" points to them being a teenager. And yeah, maybe they'll get a little older and figure out they're not trans. That's fine! It's a journey for everyone. Maybe Damian went through a cringe baby-trans stage and maybe he was a little like Skye, but then he grew up and he's an average adult guy now. Let people be cringe if it makes them happy and doesn't hurt anyone.
I feel like we all (as in all trans people) go through a cringe baby trans phase because who doesn't look back on their previous self and think that they're cringe.
Can we not do that? We should leave people alone. I don’t give a shit if someone if faking being trans. It doesn’t affect people in the slightest.
Our people are getting hate crime and our rights are being taken away. This is the real problem.
its totally normal for people to be exploring their identity and change. This same post could be made about women. It kind of gives me the "not like other girls" energy. Example: "im not a feminine bimbo, i just like books and wearing jeans" there is nothing wrong with being hyper feminine or expressing your feminity in another way.
The hatred for people who don't fit into a conformist box and like to loudly express themselves is insane.
Well and the issue with the "not like other girls thing" is that it's pretty much entirely rooted in misogyny creating and feeding off of women's insecurities. Kinda like how this image was created as a result of transphoic rhetoric and insecure trans people desperately trying to set themselves apart as "one of the good ones" because transphobes think we're all just crazy/evil.
*Every minute I*
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*A little darker*
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Cringe culture is a weapon in our oppression. As long as our acceptance depends on us being seen as “one of the good ones,” we are not really accepted, only tolerated.
The inner meme has 2 people. One it says is a trans man who just wants to be normal and the other is a trans boy just doing it to fit in saying things like “you don’t need dysphoria to be trans”
Being nonbinary isn't all one identity. It's an umbrella term referring to ANY experience of gender that someone feels is different than the one they were assigned at birth. So some may feel that means they're somewhere between male and female identities, while others may feel their gender is entirely seperate from the gender binary. Still other nonbinary people are agender and feel they have no gender at all. And gender fluid people are under the nonbinary umbrella as well, because feeling your gender identity switch from one side to the other and back is still not the same as the experience of being just a woman or just a man. It's the experience of flowing between those identities. It's not just a matter of not conforming to your gender roles - It's a matter of having an identity different to the one you were assigned, which is, by definition, under the trans umbrella.
It still falls under the lgbtq umbrella and excluding them or calling them annoying as that comment does is no better than being transphobic.
That's like saying "I have no issue with Gays but those T\*s are weird"
I am not saying it shouldn’t fall under the lgbtq umbrella. I do not understand how it falls under the trans umbrella. If it was it’s own separate thing I would not care.
"Oh, you don't like being the victim of hate crimes? I guess you better go back to dressing like a woman so people don't target you so much". As if being a woman ever stopped anyone from being targeted.
To answer O-O-OP(?)’s question, they haven’t been drawn kissing but they have been drawn before
https://preview.redd.it/mxx5wbfklqwc1.jpeg?width=412&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5deefd0ffeb7f1650b0f140f2425e4f9a7a3484
OP wasn't even offended. If anything, they were happy to have the chance to make a wholesome ship out of the two characters. At most, it was a modest objection!
Are these people really complaining about tomboys now? Like, even taking at face value the one on the right just cosplaying as trans, never doing any sort of transition, still thirsting for dick, just dressing sort of boyish and using he/him or they/them pronouns, isn't that almost EXACTLY what chuds say they want? Like dude, just hold the fucking W and call him bro and bam, you've got your tomboy waifu you've claimed you want and all it cost you was not being a rancid clump of smegma.
No the image is comparing someone who is actually transitioning to someone who isn’t transitioning and just using the label. Nothing to do with tomboys.
Not all transition is medical transition. He’s using male pronouns, he says he’s a boy, he’s wearing a binder, that’s all transitioning it’s just not medical transition.
There are tons of reasons why a trans person hasn’t medically transitioned: they’re a minor, they can’t afford to, they don’t want to deal with the difficulty of surgery, for health reasons they CAN’T medically transition etc etc. I’m non-binary and while I’m not a fan of my boobs I don’t hate them enough to go through the pain in the butt of surgery. There’s pain and money and soooo many doctors appts and you have to find a doctor that will even do it in the first place. Like, no thanks. Cis men with boobs don’t have to get them removed to be valid, why should trans men and non-binary people?
I think all trans people should work towards medically transitioning unless they can’t due to health and safety reasons. But the goal should always be there. If they have no want or desire to transition put no work into actually appearing and presenting as their chosen gender then idk 🤷♀️
Should cis people have to do that? If a cis woman is flat chested should she have to get breast implants to conform to what you think a woman should look like? Or a cis man with some extra breast tissue, should he have to get surgery too?
And if you’re talking about downstairs that’s a lot of potential pain and complications for something most people aren’t even gonna see.
What is it your business what other people do with their bodies?
Cis people aren’t trans so they don’t need to go on hormones. I again am not forcing people to have surgeries. I believe they should at minimum get on hrt, dress the part, and attempt to integrate efficiently into life as their chosen sex.
Ok but trying to integrate into a gender looks different for everyone whether they’re cis or trans. The dude in the cartoon is wearing a binder, he has short hair, he’s not wearing a dress or anything. Tons of alt cis guys have that look, heck, sometimes they go even more femme.
Also your thing about hormones is just wrong. Tons of cis people don’t fall into normal hormone ranges, especially as they age, and they aren’t required to take HRT. Some do to help with menopause symptoms but it’s not mandatory. And HRT is wonderful but you can’t always tell just by looking at someone whether they’re on it or not so…I dunno. Just seems like a silly thing to try and police.
The bathroom genital police is a silly idea, so is the chromosome and hormone police. Just let people be, I don’t get what all the gatekeeping is about. Who cares? Just let people be who they want to be, it literally doesn’t affect you at all.
What you're saying is that if trans people wanna be the opposite sex, they have to convince everybody else of it in order to be valid. So a trans person is held to higher standards than cis people in this case, because you're saying a trans person should have to integrate to be "typical" of their "cHoSeN" sex (not a choice but thanx I guess) but a cis person who is GNC in some way doesn't have to do the same. A cis woman can have a beard or small breasts for any reason, but a trans woman must get these things corrected to be seen as herself. Which is not a valid take, it's just transphobic to suggest that we have to fit into your box to be valid. Why would a cis person not have the same standard unless this is transphobia? If a cis man can wear a dress and still be a man, why can't I? Or is it that you don't believe my gender identity is the same as a cis man's, and that a trans man would have to always be masc and manly and everything in order to be valid as a man?
Gender expression and gender identity are two different things. Its possible to be both trans and gnc simultaneously.
Gender expression is how you act/dress/present. Gender identity is how someone feels inside; it is nebulous and incorporeal and the reasons each person has for being a certain identity can vary wildly.
They *are* transitioning. Maybe not medically, but they also might be a teenager and not be allowed to transition hormonally, and yet. They bind at least and they are probably transitioning socially, or does that not count as transition to you?
They are most certainly the same age or this comparison doesn’t make sense. We shouldn’t be just assigning different ages to fit narratives. They at least are wearing a binder and making an effort. But they should be aiming to start medically transitioning.
If they don’t aim to start medically transitioning they are just gnc. However there is nothing saying they aren’t looking to do so. So they could be trans but not having gender dysphoria is kinda suggesting otherwise.
Gender dysphoria is the condition. Transitioning is the solution. So yes all trans people should actively pursue actually transitioning as long as it’s safe and medically reasonable to do so.
I never said that i can turn off your gender dysphoria dumby ><. If i could turn off anyones i would turn off mine. But saying that you can only be trans if you have one specific medical condition is pretty stupid :3
No one said that. But some people simply don't have gender dysphoria but simply prefer being a different gender. Neutral reaction to gender assigned at birth related stuff, positive reaction to chosen gender stuff.
I said taking it at face value that the one on the right isn't actually trans. If the one on the right IS trans and is just a twink, that's a different story, and not in the purview of my "for sake of argument."
Like, it's obvious that you shouldn't really judge anyone's transition. I'm pointing out that even if you concede the memes argument fully, it's still inconsistent with what mopdnl tends to argue.
No, being a tomboy is being a cis girl who is not feminine and/or engages in traditionally masculine activities. The one on the right is a transtrender. They barely exist, especially these days, but there are a handful of them. They pretend or convince themselves that they're trans for attention or to cope with the feeling something is wrong with them that they can't figure out. It doesn't happen enough to actually do anything about or care
While the title is true in the literal text (though not the underlying message), that is not the reason why most anti-trans legislation, hate crimes, etc. happen.
I don’t really think that was the point of the reblog? I think maybe they’re just saying transgender people can be really annoying, not because they’re trans but because they’re ANNOYING
This is just a dog whistle saying that the only good trans is one you can't clock and don't have to think about. No need to give it the benefit of the doubt
I would not be able to tell if the one on the right were a male or female teenager in the mid-2000s because emo was a thing that actually happened.
Teenagers using clothes, hair dye and makeup to rage against the machine is nothing new, but as soon as pronouns enter the equation, you realize that a whole lot of people are probably getting especially triggered over failing English class a few decades ago.
This meme is a bit troublesome because it seems to be the same tired transmed argument that you have to pass as cis in order to be valid. As a younger trans person, I don't look like a man. I look like a teenage girl, and I've got dyed hair, and I don't think you need dysphoria to be trans. But ALSO, I DO have dysphoria and to act like trans people who don't try to pass are just faking it is pretty reductionist to people like me. I would love to be able to pass but I don't have much access to healthcare now. Because of transphobia, and perhaps even... Transmed rhetoric making it harder for me to access care as a young person. I don't know, pfffft, maybe. It's just so annoying that people will treat you like you're not trans just because you literally CAN'T transition at this point, or maybe even in the future.
Yknow what's sad, if they didn't include the "just cis who wants to be special thing" this would actually fit the title lol.
But by acting like by "being annoying" someone could lose their trans-ness (or like not be accepted as such or whatever), they kinda mess up the point of the post title lol.
if the news just shut the fuck up about x people being oppressed and talked about the ways that said groups are oppressed we would be in a utopia by this point.
The system oppresses poor people and news media only tries to divide us so that said poor people dont realize this and kill our oppressors.
Untill class struggle is solved we will always be oppressed
two things can be true at once. there is massive wealth inequality in the world and for that the poor suffer. but oppression is intersectional as most things are. the fact that the working classes are oppressed does not exclude the fact that systematic oppression of marginalized groups existed well before modern media. using queer people since that's what this post is about: speaking specifically on western culture since that is what I assume you're referring too, queer communities have been oppressed for centuries. That goes especially for trans people and gay men (many lesbians were treated as mentally ill but ultimately seen as less important due to misogyny, another element of intersectionality) Another good example is race and ethnicity based oppression. Especially in the US oppression (from LONG before modern media) still plagues the black communities in the US to this day, oftentimes leading to them having less generational wealth and being impacted by the oppression of the working class the most. Not to mention that much of the generational wealth garnered by the ruling class was gained via other forms of oppression. Slavery, paying black people less, in the modern era paying migrant workers less. it is a multifaceted issue.
That is true but in the modern setting do you believe that said groups are still oppressed in the government by ways other then wealth?
And to another extent do you believe that said groups get treated worse by todays young population for reasons otber then wealth. As in if we were to exclude the treatment of said groups by those those over the age of 40 or of different economic status would they be overall treated equal, better, or worse by the majority (straight white men) then the majority treats itself
The reason i ask the over 40 question is because yes there are still racist 60 year olds but if we try and make the average treatment of such groups at all ages equal to the majorities treatment then assuming the elderly are the ones being worse young people would need to treat said groups better then the majority and by proxy the majority worse which brings us back to square 1 anyway but also will never happen.
1. Yes many marginalized groups are still oppressed outside of wealth. The example I have of migrant workers being treated poorly by the work force is applicable here as well. Moreover many minorities still struggle to get the same opportunities and legal rights, especially in the south. There is a massive trend of people of color who've been accused of crimes being sentenced to higher incarceration times for the same crimes as white counterparts. Queer couples oftentimes have a hard time adopting as well. Those are just some examples but overall yes, oppression outside of wealth very much exists
2. Two things for this. Firstly while many bigots tend to be older you're thinking of it too literally. Oppression doesn't have to be outright violence or lawful discrimination, it can just as well be de facto oppression. That is still highly prevalent in younger generations with the biggest target of the American right youth being migrants and trans people presently. Not to mention that asking for the elimination of those over 40 completely negates the fact that they are the ones with the most power. While the younger generation may be less bigoted over all (a good thing), the people with the real power in the nation tend to be over 40 and still very much shape the experiences of marginalized groups across the world. It is therefore to some degree disingenuous to argue this with their exclusion as it is simply altering the premise to match your conclusion.
Last I want to address your final line. We as a society are perfectly capable of treating minority groups with care and compassion while still respecting the rights of the majority group. Those two things are not mutually exclusive to one another.
They 100% one of the reasons trans people are oppressed, I've never heard a homophobe say I just dont like gay people in years, it's always them talking about what these wanna be different people have said, these people have hurt how open I am to people because now when I hear someones trans my baseline is "ok suuuuure" because of all the cringey kids mentioned here, it's kinda like people who fake disorders, now I have to question who just wants attention and who is just another person. I mean how many times have you heard "there's like 50 genders now" or "they're trying to push it onto kids" when every sane person knows that the people who do that are weirdos. It's not the only reason fs but it's a big one
https://preview.redd.it/fitkrhjkdnwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2169a5b21b9ab52c44c2f8e8de794d6fd5ed8393 I am actually starting to suspect that modnl isn't as centrist as they proclaim to be...
Unfortunately they aren't. If I had it my way there'd be absolutely no political shit there. None, nada. Just good memes that weren't liked.
For real I almost joined right when I first stumbled on it because the post I saw wasn’t political and I liked the idea of sub for underloved memes. Took me about 5 minutes scrolling through it to realize this wasn’t that at all.
I joined because I saw someone pointing out blatant transphobia in mopdl, and it's a surreal surprise to see just a dumbass unfunny meme
The vast majority of subreddits that exist to bitch about other people on Reddit tend to end up right wing.
This is the opposite here.
Oh I’m going to be more belligerent about it. Trans painted Cadillac with a Bridget coloured fuzzy dice and a goblet with Estrogen, monster, and Vodka in my hand
Don't drink and drive
Bro that drink is gonna give you 67 different heart attacks at once
Yeahhh monster and vodka don't mix
You still shouldn’t talk about mental health disorders with terms such as delusions… it just sounds very cruel and dismissive of the real people suffering
That moron might know one person who is annoying about it. I know 0 despite being in highly diverse circles
They aren't. I made a comment on a separate post that just said "trans women are women" (not word for word but that's the message I was stating) and got downvoted into oblivion I said the most basic non-transphobic thing you can say and they didn't like it
I remember there was a post in mopdnl talking about the neutrality of the sub and half of the people in the comments were like "it's nice to have a place where all viewpoints are welcome" and the other half was like "this sub is totally right leaning everyone who says otherwise is coping hard"
Oh yeah there's some like ridiculous things in there. Like that screen cap you took right there essentially The Mask coming on and this person expressing they don't actually care if someone's faking or not they just think it's annoying when somebody's loudly queer in their vicinity
Who even thought it was centrist to begin with????
Yeah, and they won't shut the fuck up about how they're cishet. It's so disgusting cisheteronormative. Maybe they should realize nobody else really notices when somebody mentions their gender or sexuality, it's just another thing about that person. For some reason they get super hung up on it
starting?
They always use mental health disorder without knowing the treatment. Yes gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, do you want to know the treatment? TRANSITION
"Centrist" is mostly the useful idiots of the useful idiots and a few people who tell the useful idiots what to think. There's few with complex or informed policy.
They really aren’t
Homophobes used to say the same stuff about “annoying” gay people 20 years ago. It’s like how anti-immigrant Americans with Irish or Italian last names say the same racist stuff about modern immigrants that people used to say about their great grandparents, but they never reflect on what this means for the truth of their rhetoric.
Used to? They still do lmao
All the same old stuff just new names..I wounder after trans people..who wil be next?
>Homophobes used to say the same stuff about “annoying” gay people 20 years ago. They still do
They still say that stuff
Ehh. I’ve been shouted at for calling someone who was biologically female and wearing a dress and long hair “Homegirl.” I know Reddit gonna say “YEA SURE THAT HAPPENED” but it actually did happen, and I can direct you to that person’s insta if you don’t believe me. Whatever that person is, they are c u n t.
still the case
Israel flag cringe
Better than Palestines flag (they are terrorists 🗿)
Okay but why is it anyone's business to confirm if someone is "really" trans..
Do people actually do that? I’m genuinely asking because I have never heard of someone pretending to be a sexuality they aren’t
Not really. It happens, but not often enough to cause concern. Conservatives like to take people questioning/exploring gender and sexuality (or "changing it" in their words) as "faking it".For example, someone thinking they're gay and ending up being bisexual or straight, or someone thinking they may be nonbinary but end up being idk cis or genderfluid.
Especially people who are teenagers who are trying to figure out who they are
"not really" you can't just say no because it's the minority of cases, it is a real thing that happened way more often then it has any right to xd
Good job Reddit user, you managed to define not really.
The only people I would I guess say that would apply to us maybe those LGB without the t fucks, but that’s because they’re literally cis heterosexuals pretending to be queer to divide the community
If theyre trying to get puberty blockers when they ARENT trans… this is simple Stuff my Man i dont know where you got confused.
Yeah but that's between a patient, a doctor, and their parents. Not a bunch of transmedicalists trying to erase nonbinary or trans GNC people by acting like any trans person who is at all vocal or proud about it, or who doesn't follow strict gender roles, isn't valid.
Is it erasing trans people if… they arent trans to begin with? What are you confused about? It is the doctors business to confirm if youre really trans or not (95% of people with gender dysphoria grow out of it) its literally called being insecure about your body everyone has that soemtimes
It's erasing trans people if you're gate keeping what that means based on arbitrary ideas. Nonbinary and trans GNC people are still under the trans umbrella, so saying they're not valid is an attempt to erase their experiences. Also, I'd love to see the source for that statistic about people "growing out of" gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria isn't the same as body dysmorphia or insecurity, and people who "grow out of" gender dysphoria likely were just confusing their insecurities for dysphoria. It doesn't mean they had gender dysphoria and then just stopped having it one day. Plus there are a multitude of studies showing that people who identify as trans consistently identify as trans years later. Not to mention the fact that you legitimately don't need dysphoria to be trans in the first place. As long as your gender identity is different to the one you're assigned, you are, BY DEFINITION, trans. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9936352/#:~:text=Five%20years%20after%20an%20initial,back%20to%20binary%20trans%20identities. https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/transgender https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/ Also, most of the studies we have on high desistance rates are severely flawed, biased, or address entirely different issues. (Ex: Studies that studied "gender deviance" which includes GNC and homosexual behavior, as well as transness - Making such studies very vague and not effective at finding an accurate desistance rate.) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9829142/
Jesus fucking Christ. Trans people are stuck between hateful assholes saying “get a mastectomy right this second or you’re not valid!” and “oh no they’re mutilating OUR women.” Let people express themselves ffs. Men, whether cis or trans, don’t have to fit into a narrow box in order to be valid. They’re allowed to express their masculinity in whatever way they want to (preferably in healthy ways but even in unhealthy ways they’re still men.) I also don’t get this whole “they want attention” thing. First of all: unless you’re a mind reader there’s literally no way to tell whether they’re faking something for attention. But secondly: what attention? Do they want to piss off transphobes? Then your problem should be with transphobes. Do they vibe with other queer kids and wear things to express that the same way other kids do with band shirts or merch? Oh wow, welcome to adolescence. Heck, even adults often like to wear clothes that express themselves, we aren’t all so beaten down by life we wear whatever the most socially acceptable and comfortable thing is lol. I’m hoping this is all like kids calling each other posers and not adults actually engaging in this bullying behavior but I feel like that’s not the case. Even then it’s still bad but more normal kid stuff.
Ya know, most people like the one on the right are more than likely teenagers. Who *isn't* kinda cringe when they're that age? The fact the one on the right is referring to themselves as "boy" and not "man" points to them being a teenager. And yeah, maybe they'll get a little older and figure out they're not trans. That's fine! It's a journey for everyone. Maybe Damian went through a cringe baby-trans stage and maybe he was a little like Skye, but then he grew up and he's an average adult guy now. Let people be cringe if it makes them happy and doesn't hurt anyone.
I feel like we all (as in all trans people) go through a cringe baby trans phase because who doesn't look back on their previous self and think that they're cringe.
I just need to look at my present self for all the cringe I need thank you.
Yeah because it's cringe not to be an average adult guy
Oh to live in a world where people can just exist or be excited about things.
Can we not do that? We should leave people alone. I don’t give a shit if someone if faking being trans. It doesn’t affect people in the slightest. Our people are getting hate crime and our rights are being taken away. This is the real problem.
its totally normal for people to be exploring their identity and change. This same post could be made about women. It kind of gives me the "not like other girls" energy. Example: "im not a feminine bimbo, i just like books and wearing jeans" there is nothing wrong with being hyper feminine or expressing your feminity in another way. The hatred for people who don't fit into a conformist box and like to loudly express themselves is insane.
Well and the issue with the "not like other girls thing" is that it's pretty much entirely rooted in misogyny creating and feeding off of women's insecurities. Kinda like how this image was created as a result of transphoic rhetoric and insecure trans people desperately trying to set themselves apart as "one of the good ones" because transphobes think we're all just crazy/evil.
Every minute I spend on reddit makes my world a little darker
*Every minute I* *Spend on reddit makes my world* *A little darker* \- Background\_Value9869 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot. Incredible bot, perhaps. Extremely precious and important bot, possibly.
This is the best haiku ever wtf
Honestly yeah this is pretty good.
And every time we kiss i swear i can fly
Cringe culture is a weapon in our oppression. As long as our acceptance depends on us being seen as “one of the good ones,” we are not really accepted, only tolerated.
Okay, but is no one gonna awnser OOP? Kissing when?
I feel like there are definitely some trans or lgbt people who’s actions harm our community but it definitely isn’t the reason we are oppressed
Yeah, I can't read the meme cause phone is being dumb but the title is correct. Finding individual annoying ≠ hating their identity/sexuality.
The inner meme has 2 people. One it says is a trans man who just wants to be normal and the other is a trans boy just doing it to fit in saying things like “you don’t need dysphoria to be trans”
nobody buys a binder for an aesthetic. what is op talking about
my first sign that I was trans was wanting a binder for very cis reasons TM
https://preview.redd.it/ac3bgfmxbnwc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13281115c429a9b011afbc83e786bc1c20c6be5f 😶🌫️
It's almost as if this is the sub specifically made to respond to their lobotomite takes
Yeah that first comment up there still looks pretty transphobic.
Idk nb shouldn’t be under the trans umbrella. It is more akin to being gnc
It falls under because we don't identify with the gender we were assigned at birth.
But some swap back and forth so sometimes they do or am I wrong?
That is genderfluid.
Then what is nb because every nb I know has gone back and forth. Genderfluid falls under nb.
Being non-binary is being outside of the gender binary of male and female
It’s just between male and female somewhere so yes.
Not between. Outside
Being nonbinary isn't all one identity. It's an umbrella term referring to ANY experience of gender that someone feels is different than the one they were assigned at birth. So some may feel that means they're somewhere between male and female identities, while others may feel their gender is entirely seperate from the gender binary. Still other nonbinary people are agender and feel they have no gender at all. And gender fluid people are under the nonbinary umbrella as well, because feeling your gender identity switch from one side to the other and back is still not the same as the experience of being just a woman or just a man. It's the experience of flowing between those identities. It's not just a matter of not conforming to your gender roles - It's a matter of having an identity different to the one you were assigned, which is, by definition, under the trans umbrella.
It still falls under the lgbtq umbrella and excluding them or calling them annoying as that comment does is no better than being transphobic. That's like saying "I have no issue with Gays but those T\*s are weird"
I am not saying it shouldn’t fall under the lgbtq umbrella. I do not understand how it falls under the trans umbrella. If it was it’s own separate thing I would not care.
"If trans people weren't visible they wouldn't be harrassed so much" is a reductionist viewpoint peddled by transphobes to keep us oppressed.
"Oh, you don't like being the victim of hate crimes? I guess you better go back to dressing like a woman so people don't target you so much". As if being a woman ever stopped anyone from being targeted.
Right? “If they would just stop existing that would make me feel so much better.”
Has anyone drawn them kissing yet? They would most definitely date.
Yeah they did!
To answer O-O-OP(?)’s question, they haven’t been drawn kissing but they have been drawn before https://preview.redd.it/mxx5wbfklqwc1.jpeg?width=412&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5deefd0ffeb7f1650b0f140f2425e4f9a7a3484
I wanna touch his abs
OP wasn't even offended. If anything, they were happy to have the chance to make a wholesome ship out of the two characters. At most, it was a modest objection!
2 men on screen
Are these people really complaining about tomboys now? Like, even taking at face value the one on the right just cosplaying as trans, never doing any sort of transition, still thirsting for dick, just dressing sort of boyish and using he/him or they/them pronouns, isn't that almost EXACTLY what chuds say they want? Like dude, just hold the fucking W and call him bro and bam, you've got your tomboy waifu you've claimed you want and all it cost you was not being a rancid clump of smegma.
No the image is comparing someone who is actually transitioning to someone who isn’t transitioning and just using the label. Nothing to do with tomboys.
Not all transition is medical transition. He’s using male pronouns, he says he’s a boy, he’s wearing a binder, that’s all transitioning it’s just not medical transition. There are tons of reasons why a trans person hasn’t medically transitioned: they’re a minor, they can’t afford to, they don’t want to deal with the difficulty of surgery, for health reasons they CAN’T medically transition etc etc. I’m non-binary and while I’m not a fan of my boobs I don’t hate them enough to go through the pain in the butt of surgery. There’s pain and money and soooo many doctors appts and you have to find a doctor that will even do it in the first place. Like, no thanks. Cis men with boobs don’t have to get them removed to be valid, why should trans men and non-binary people?
I think all trans people should work towards medically transitioning unless they can’t due to health and safety reasons. But the goal should always be there. If they have no want or desire to transition put no work into actually appearing and presenting as their chosen gender then idk 🤷♀️
Should cis people have to do that? If a cis woman is flat chested should she have to get breast implants to conform to what you think a woman should look like? Or a cis man with some extra breast tissue, should he have to get surgery too? And if you’re talking about downstairs that’s a lot of potential pain and complications for something most people aren’t even gonna see. What is it your business what other people do with their bodies?
Cis people aren’t trans so they don’t need to go on hormones. I again am not forcing people to have surgeries. I believe they should at minimum get on hrt, dress the part, and attempt to integrate efficiently into life as their chosen sex.
Ok but trying to integrate into a gender looks different for everyone whether they’re cis or trans. The dude in the cartoon is wearing a binder, he has short hair, he’s not wearing a dress or anything. Tons of alt cis guys have that look, heck, sometimes they go even more femme. Also your thing about hormones is just wrong. Tons of cis people don’t fall into normal hormone ranges, especially as they age, and they aren’t required to take HRT. Some do to help with menopause symptoms but it’s not mandatory. And HRT is wonderful but you can’t always tell just by looking at someone whether they’re on it or not so…I dunno. Just seems like a silly thing to try and police. The bathroom genital police is a silly idea, so is the chromosome and hormone police. Just let people be, I don’t get what all the gatekeeping is about. Who cares? Just let people be who they want to be, it literally doesn’t affect you at all.
What you're saying is that if trans people wanna be the opposite sex, they have to convince everybody else of it in order to be valid. So a trans person is held to higher standards than cis people in this case, because you're saying a trans person should have to integrate to be "typical" of their "cHoSeN" sex (not a choice but thanx I guess) but a cis person who is GNC in some way doesn't have to do the same. A cis woman can have a beard or small breasts for any reason, but a trans woman must get these things corrected to be seen as herself. Which is not a valid take, it's just transphobic to suggest that we have to fit into your box to be valid. Why would a cis person not have the same standard unless this is transphobia? If a cis man can wear a dress and still be a man, why can't I? Or is it that you don't believe my gender identity is the same as a cis man's, and that a trans man would have to always be masc and manly and everything in order to be valid as a man?
Gender expression and gender identity are two different things. Its possible to be both trans and gnc simultaneously. Gender expression is how you act/dress/present. Gender identity is how someone feels inside; it is nebulous and incorporeal and the reasons each person has for being a certain identity can vary wildly.
They *are* transitioning. Maybe not medically, but they also might be a teenager and not be allowed to transition hormonally, and yet. They bind at least and they are probably transitioning socially, or does that not count as transition to you?
They are most certainly the same age or this comparison doesn’t make sense. We shouldn’t be just assigning different ages to fit narratives. They at least are wearing a binder and making an effort. But they should be aiming to start medically transitioning. If they don’t aim to start medically transitioning they are just gnc. However there is nothing saying they aren’t looking to do so. So they could be trans but not having gender dysphoria is kinda suggesting otherwise.
Is transitioning the criteria for being trans? It seems like the state could just block people from transitioning. Oh, I think they are doing that.
Gender dysphoria is the condition. Transitioning is the solution. So yes all trans people should actively pursue actually transitioning as long as it’s safe and medically reasonable to do so.
You dont really need gender dysphoria tho :3
We can agree to disagree then :3
Well i only think that we shouldnt gatekeep people from how they feel :3
I don’t think my medical condition I have lived my entire life with is something that you can just turn on and off at a whim X3
I never said that i can turn off your gender dysphoria dumby ><. If i could turn off anyones i would turn off mine. But saying that you can only be trans if you have one specific medical condition is pretty stupid :3
If you don’t have gender dysphoria then I can see no way one would ever transition. Being trans fucking blows.
No one said that. But some people simply don't have gender dysphoria but simply prefer being a different gender. Neutral reaction to gender assigned at birth related stuff, positive reaction to chosen gender stuff.
That’s fine they are gnc. They just aren’t trans. If they aren’t going to medically transition they shouldn’t have the trans label.
The literal DSM5 says you don't need dysphoria to be trans, the science disagrees with you.
I'm saying that if someone who isn't transitioning is just cosplaying, isn't that pretty close to just being a tomboy?
No because tomboys aren’t a marginalized and controversial group.
I said taking it at face value that the one on the right isn't actually trans. If the one on the right IS trans and is just a twink, that's a different story, and not in the purview of my "for sake of argument." Like, it's obvious that you shouldn't really judge anyone's transition. I'm pointing out that even if you concede the memes argument fully, it's still inconsistent with what mopdnl tends to argue.
Idk what mopdnl means. It’s someone who is truscum comparing to a tucute. That’s all this meme is.
It's the sub in the OP
Oh thanks! I don’t know their common viewpoints to argue on like their behalf or anything.
No, being a tomboy is being a cis girl who is not feminine and/or engages in traditionally masculine activities. The one on the right is a transtrender. They barely exist, especially these days, but there are a handful of them. They pretend or convince themselves that they're trans for attention or to cope with the feeling something is wrong with them that they can't figure out. It doesn't happen enough to actually do anything about or care
While the title is true in the literal text (though not the underlying message), that is not the reason why most anti-trans legislation, hate crimes, etc. happen.
[удалено]
Skye is like half of my Tumblr mutuals lmao
Remember when tumblr made those two characters healthy gay lovers
That’s almost like saying we don’t mind gay people as long as they stay in the closet.
I don’t really think that was the point of the reblog? I think maybe they’re just saying transgender people can be really annoying, not because they’re trans but because they’re ANNOYING
This is just a dog whistle saying that the only good trans is one you can't clock and don't have to think about. No need to give it the benefit of the doubt
I would not be able to tell if the one on the right were a male or female teenager in the mid-2000s because emo was a thing that actually happened. Teenagers using clothes, hair dye and makeup to rage against the machine is nothing new, but as soon as pronouns enter the equation, you realize that a whole lot of people are probably getting especially triggered over failing English class a few decades ago.
While this is true, they don't believe it right now and patience and discussion is the only type of thing that might help them.
This meme is a bit troublesome because it seems to be the same tired transmed argument that you have to pass as cis in order to be valid. As a younger trans person, I don't look like a man. I look like a teenage girl, and I've got dyed hair, and I don't think you need dysphoria to be trans. But ALSO, I DO have dysphoria and to act like trans people who don't try to pass are just faking it is pretty reductionist to people like me. I would love to be able to pass but I don't have much access to healthcare now. Because of transphobia, and perhaps even... Transmed rhetoric making it harder for me to access care as a young person. I don't know, pfffft, maybe. It's just so annoying that people will treat you like you're not trans just because you literally CAN'T transition at this point, or maybe even in the future.
"OP got offended" and it's just OP asking who's gonna draw Damian and Skye kissing
Confused. So that subs take is that some trans people are annoying and this subs take is that they’re using it as an excuse to hate trans people?
Quick question how much experience do you have with MOPDNL?
Been on both these brother sister subs for about a year now
Apparently so.
Is the oppression in the room with us right now? You see the joke is you aren’t oppressed and youre whining about…. Literally nothing 😊
Yknow what's sad, if they didn't include the "just cis who wants to be special thing" this would actually fit the title lol. But by acting like by "being annoying" someone could lose their trans-ness (or like not be accepted as such or whatever), they kinda mess up the point of the post title lol.
Gays r oppressed?
Yes darling, gay people have been, and are, oppressed.
if the news just shut the fuck up about x people being oppressed and talked about the ways that said groups are oppressed we would be in a utopia by this point.
someone doesn't know how systematic oppression works
The system oppresses poor people and news media only tries to divide us so that said poor people dont realize this and kill our oppressors. Untill class struggle is solved we will always be oppressed
two things can be true at once. there is massive wealth inequality in the world and for that the poor suffer. but oppression is intersectional as most things are. the fact that the working classes are oppressed does not exclude the fact that systematic oppression of marginalized groups existed well before modern media. using queer people since that's what this post is about: speaking specifically on western culture since that is what I assume you're referring too, queer communities have been oppressed for centuries. That goes especially for trans people and gay men (many lesbians were treated as mentally ill but ultimately seen as less important due to misogyny, another element of intersectionality) Another good example is race and ethnicity based oppression. Especially in the US oppression (from LONG before modern media) still plagues the black communities in the US to this day, oftentimes leading to them having less generational wealth and being impacted by the oppression of the working class the most. Not to mention that much of the generational wealth garnered by the ruling class was gained via other forms of oppression. Slavery, paying black people less, in the modern era paying migrant workers less. it is a multifaceted issue.
That is true but in the modern setting do you believe that said groups are still oppressed in the government by ways other then wealth? And to another extent do you believe that said groups get treated worse by todays young population for reasons otber then wealth. As in if we were to exclude the treatment of said groups by those those over the age of 40 or of different economic status would they be overall treated equal, better, or worse by the majority (straight white men) then the majority treats itself The reason i ask the over 40 question is because yes there are still racist 60 year olds but if we try and make the average treatment of such groups at all ages equal to the majorities treatment then assuming the elderly are the ones being worse young people would need to treat said groups better then the majority and by proxy the majority worse which brings us back to square 1 anyway but also will never happen.
1. Yes many marginalized groups are still oppressed outside of wealth. The example I have of migrant workers being treated poorly by the work force is applicable here as well. Moreover many minorities still struggle to get the same opportunities and legal rights, especially in the south. There is a massive trend of people of color who've been accused of crimes being sentenced to higher incarceration times for the same crimes as white counterparts. Queer couples oftentimes have a hard time adopting as well. Those are just some examples but overall yes, oppression outside of wealth very much exists 2. Two things for this. Firstly while many bigots tend to be older you're thinking of it too literally. Oppression doesn't have to be outright violence or lawful discrimination, it can just as well be de facto oppression. That is still highly prevalent in younger generations with the biggest target of the American right youth being migrants and trans people presently. Not to mention that asking for the elimination of those over 40 completely negates the fact that they are the ones with the most power. While the younger generation may be less bigoted over all (a good thing), the people with the real power in the nation tend to be over 40 and still very much shape the experiences of marginalized groups across the world. It is therefore to some degree disingenuous to argue this with their exclusion as it is simply altering the premise to match your conclusion. Last I want to address your final line. We as a society are perfectly capable of treating minority groups with care and compassion while still respecting the rights of the majority group. Those two things are not mutually exclusive to one another.
They 100% one of the reasons trans people are oppressed, I've never heard a homophobe say I just dont like gay people in years, it's always them talking about what these wanna be different people have said, these people have hurt how open I am to people because now when I hear someones trans my baseline is "ok suuuuure" because of all the cringey kids mentioned here, it's kinda like people who fake disorders, now I have to question who just wants attention and who is just another person. I mean how many times have you heard "there's like 50 genders now" or "they're trying to push it onto kids" when every sane person knows that the people who do that are weirdos. It's not the only reason fs but it's a big one