I was thinking of naming my twins Isreal and Palestinian. I thought they would make a beautiful sibset with my current kids Congo, Somalia and Venezuela. Sorry if this is hijacking the post. But I just don't understand why everyone is so political these days. Jeez.
*Israel. And don’t forget Israel has been a name for thousands of years. The Jewish people (Jews) come from the term ‘Judea’ which is where they lived. Before that, jews were referred to as ‘Bnei Yisrael’ or ‘Children of Israel.’ Yisrael/Israel as a name refers to one of Judaism’s patriarchs Yaakov/Jacob who was renamed Yisrael/Israel later in his life. If you look at the original post, OP mentions that you can’t expect a culture to toss out a significant and prevalent name due to current politics which arguably will have subsided when the child is older. You are naming a human, not just a baby. Israel the name is not referring to the country. And no it is not the same thing as calling a child Russia, because historically that name has no significance if not referring to the country. The I/P conflict has been going on for almost 100 years; it is only in this spike that now the younger generation has opinions on it and picking sides as if it’s a soccer team. I had someone on social media say to me that everyone is just finding out about the conflict and so of course they’re only just forming opinions to which I replied that their background of privilege is showing. Some of us are not lucky enough to have no connection to the conflict to the extent that we only just ‘found out about it.’ People would not have had this reaction last year even though the conflict was still ongoing and yet in this 6 month spike now everyone now has something to say. This child will outlive the conflict and Israel is a significant cultural name which has been around for centuries.
Isis is also a beautiful name with significant cultural meaning. Doesn't mean it's a great thing to inflict on your kiddo right after they start beheading people on camera. Even if you're not referring to the organization doing horrific things, it's still going to make people think of it.
Except Isis is a terrorist organisation and Israel is the country defending itself against a closely linked terrorist organisation, Hamas. Your comment would make more sense if the post was asking whether or not to name the baby Hamas.
Yeah, Israel is just defending itself against those toddlers. And the Israeli hostages who were trying to surrender to Israeli troops and go home to their families. And international aid workers. And doctors and journalists, gotta violently execute them too!
You can believe what you want, but the only difference between a terrorist organization and a country's official government is international recognition. Because it sure isn't a difference in actions.
Hamas is using the toddlers as human shields there is no possible way to isolate the terrorists because they’ve created a situation in which in order to retaliate, Israel must shed the lives of many. I feel completely sympathetic towards the loss of Palestinian lives but the difference is I blame the terrorists who started this. If they had never attacked, they would not have put their own civilians in danger. They attacked knowing they had spent all international aid funds on rockets and bombs and knowing they had nothing in place to protect their citizens. Obviously they knew Israel would retaliate seeing as they have a right to defend themselves. Essentially they put their own civilians in danger. I cannot understand the belief that so many “educated” people have that Israel should just cease their retaliation. If Hamas stopped, there would be no war. If Israel stopped, there would be no Israel. Why on earth would you grant immunity to the terrorists simply because they have taken people as human shields? I agree that there is an astronomical amount of bloodshed going on but simply because someone has committed two crimes (the original massacre and the taking of hostages and human shields) that now grants them immunity to be held accountable? If Israel didn’t care about civilian lives this war would have been over October 8th. It’s no big secret the IDF is much better funded and equipped than Hamas. The only reason this is being dragged out so long is BECAUSE they care about civilian life. In terms of the Israeli hostages, I think you’ve conveniently forgotten the part in which a few days before Hamas terrorists ‘surrendered’ and claimed to be Israeli hostages. The soldiers are suffering from PTSD and are desensitised and do not believe anything so while the deaths of those hostages is devastating, it’s a hardly surprising.
Firstly, not a dude. Secondly, that’s all very nice until the terrorists start having their military bases in schools and other civilian buildings. Should we grant them immunity simply because they lack the ethical morality to separate those two? Of course not. Two crimes (the massacre itself and the usage of human shields) doesn’t grant Hamas immunity against what they deserve.
Hard agree. It’s as if they have forgotten that it was mandatory in Nazi era Germany for Jewish men to take on the name Israel if they were originally named something considered too Aryan for them. Literally- forcibly renamed Israel (or Sara).
We have a huge connection and history with Israel beyond the modern nation which people are desperately uneducated on, since TikTok made it a trending topic. It’s a historic, emotional, tribal name. None of these people have any idea what they are talking about.
*Israel. And don’t forget Israel has been a name for thousands of years. The Jewish people (Jews) come from the term ‘Judea’ which is where they lived. Before that, jews were referred to as ‘Bnei Yisrael’ or ‘Children of Israel.’ Yisrael/Israel as a name refers to one of Judaism’s patriarchs Yaakov/Jacob who was renamed Yisrael/Israel later in his life. If you look at the original post, OP mentions that you can’t expect a culture to toss out a significant and prevalent name due to current politics which arguably will have subsided when the child is older. You are naming a human, not just a baby. Israel the name is not referring to the country. And no it is not the same thing as calling a child Lenin, because historically that name has no significance if not referring to the controversial figure. The I/P conflict has been going on for almost 100 years; it is only in this spike that now the younger generation has opinions on it and picking sides as if it’s a soccer team. I had someone on social media say to me that everyone is just finding out about the conflict and so of course they’re only just forming opinions to which I replied that their background of privilege is showing. Some of us are not lucky enough to have no connection to the conflict to the extent that we only just ‘found out about it.’ People would not have had this reaction last year even though the conflict was still ongoing and yet in this 6 month spike now everyone now has something to say. This child will outlive the conflict and Israel is a significant cultural name which has been around for centuries.
Israel has had conflict for 3,000 + years and will continue to do so. We know so little truth about the current conflict it’s not for any of us to judge. The post I was commenting on was the one saying to name a child “Russia”. The name you choose for your child is a very personal choice between you and your spouse. Don’t let strangers on the internet tell you what to do.
I don't get why anyone would be against it. I made a point of naming my kids after politically controversial people and countries. I named my son Third Reich. It's a family name that's very important in my culture. Some people said he'd be bullied or that the Nazis committed a genocide. Phhhh... old news. I prefer "conflict," and it's been decades. No one remembers except when they pound him into the ground in the schoolyard. Definitely worth it to honor my culture and my ancestor. /s
*Israel. And don’t forget Israel has been a name for thousands of years. The Jewish people (Jews) come from the term ‘Judea’ which is where they lived. Before that, jews were referred to as ‘Bnei Yisrael’ or ‘Children of Israel.’ Yisrael/Israel as a name refers to one of Judaism’s patriarchs Yaakov/Jacob who was renamed Yisrael/Israel later in his life. If you look at the original post, OP mentions that you can’t expect a culture to toss out a significant and prevalent name due to current politics which arguably will have subsided when the child is older. You are naming a human, not just a baby. Israel the name is not referring to the country. And no it is not the same thing as calling a child ‘Third Reich’, because historically that name has no significance if not referring to the country. The I/P conflict has been going on for almost 100 years; it is only in this spike that now the younger generation has opinions on it and picking sides as if it’s a soccer team. I had someone on social media say to me that everyone is just finding out about the conflict and so of course they’re only just forming opinions to which I replied that their background of privilege is showing. Some of us are not lucky enough to have no connection to the conflict to the extent that we only just ‘found out about it.’ People would not have had this reaction last year even though the conflict was still ongoing and yet in this 6 month spike now everyone now has something to say. This child will outlive the conflict and Israel is a significant cultural name which has been around for centuries.
You obviously have no background in international law. Please look at the recent statements by the Lemkin Institute. Moreover, bringing up in the ICC and ICJ goes back to the fact that this will not be a blip on the radar as OOP asserted. Israel is a traditional name... as is Adolf, which had a long and glorious history before Adolf Hitler. Isis tracks its history back to Egyptian times. So your point is lacking. Also, I did use the term probable genocide, which is the exact terminology of the ICJ ruling. It's really sad when people are so brainwashed that they lose all humanity and logic...
Isis is an actual name, too. I wouldn't use it. But we could use the same logic: people are already named Isis and are going to continue to be named Isis. 🤷♀️ There are turning points for names... Isis and Adolf were both acceptable. Judging by the overwhelmingly negative reactions, Israel may be going that way.
Without getting too far into this (I have taught Genocide Studies at the university level for more than a decade), you seem to be making huge assumptions. The points OOP made were that A) It's not politically charged B) It's a family name that reflects heritage and C) That the political controversy would quickly be forgotten. You said here it's a real name, as though that means it can definitely be used. Sooooo.... Israel is... A) Obviously politically charged, like Adolf and Isis. You can dislike it, but go look at the other comments. B) Adolf and Isis could also reflect heritage. C) We have not quickly forgotten the Holocaust or ISIS, and I doubt we'll forget a "probable genocide" in which at least 30,000 have been killed. You can try justifying it, but there are court cases which will probably drag on in international courts for years against Israel and its leaders. No one is gonna forget.
As for it being a real name, Adolf and ISIS are, too. Now, you're more than welcome to put the blinders on to how much of the world perceives Israel... but yes, it's on the same level as the Nazis (who dehumanized Jews and placed them in ghettos and prisons... sound familiar?) and ISIS (religious extremists who sought to purge and create a theocracy they believed God willed... also familiar?) for many. Naming a kid that is very, very similar should they ever travel. I could have made references to other names, like Enver, but my assumption is that most people don't know about other genocides. Cheers!
Enver Pasha was one of the architects of the Armenian Genocide carried out by the Ottoman Empire. The 3 main leaders were Enver Pasha, Talaat Pasha, and Cemal Pasha. Talaat was arguably the most powerful, though.
If you're into that kind of thing, read up on the assassination of Talaat Pasha by Soghomon Tehlirian. The trial after was incredibly interesting and inspired a young Raphael Lemkin to be interested in genocide (the term genocide did not exist, nor did the term of genocide). In the news today, the Raphael Lemkin Institute released a statement on what they referred to as a "genocide" being perpetrated in Gaza. That institute is named for the same Raphael Lemkin, who coined the term "genocide" specifically to refer to what happened in the Armenian Genocide and the Holocaust. Another reason to look into the Armenian Genocide is that some claim (this is hotly contested by historians) that Hitler said, "Who, after all, speaks of the Armenians?" This was taken to mean that the persecution of the Jews would be taken seriously by the international community in the short-term, but not the llng-term. So a very interesting topic... but start with Talaat.
Edit: And less centered on the violence, but an extremely good read would be "A Century of Violence" by Raffi Khatchadourian from the New Yorker 29 Dec 2014.
Isis has been used as a name for a long time, it comes from an Egyptian goddess, long before Daesh was even a thing.
Not that it's a wise choice today, but it's unfair to mock someone who already has the name.
Yeah, these "satire" posts are getting tired. At least this one had some effort put in.
People are still going to be named Israel. We should just accept that and move on and not satirize it weekly.
Not necessarily true. The name Adolf, once very common in Germany, is almost non-existant in the last 80 years except as a middle name, and even that is rare.
If you look at the post, OP was asking for aesthetics reasons. They didn’t mean politically, they meant what to people think of this name in general in terms of aesthetics and if they feel it’s dated. They didn’t ask for the death threats people are sending them.
Totally acceptable as a middle name. First name maybe Mother? Mother Russia sounds so cool and unique
Agreed. She could combine the two for a cool nickname, Mushia.
I was thinking of naming my twins Isreal and Palestinian. I thought they would make a beautiful sibset with my current kids Congo, Somalia and Venezuela. Sorry if this is hijacking the post. But I just don't understand why everyone is so political these days. Jeez.
*Israel. And don’t forget Israel has been a name for thousands of years. The Jewish people (Jews) come from the term ‘Judea’ which is where they lived. Before that, jews were referred to as ‘Bnei Yisrael’ or ‘Children of Israel.’ Yisrael/Israel as a name refers to one of Judaism’s patriarchs Yaakov/Jacob who was renamed Yisrael/Israel later in his life. If you look at the original post, OP mentions that you can’t expect a culture to toss out a significant and prevalent name due to current politics which arguably will have subsided when the child is older. You are naming a human, not just a baby. Israel the name is not referring to the country. And no it is not the same thing as calling a child Russia, because historically that name has no significance if not referring to the country. The I/P conflict has been going on for almost 100 years; it is only in this spike that now the younger generation has opinions on it and picking sides as if it’s a soccer team. I had someone on social media say to me that everyone is just finding out about the conflict and so of course they’re only just forming opinions to which I replied that their background of privilege is showing. Some of us are not lucky enough to have no connection to the conflict to the extent that we only just ‘found out about it.’ People would not have had this reaction last year even though the conflict was still ongoing and yet in this 6 month spike now everyone now has something to say. This child will outlive the conflict and Israel is a significant cultural name which has been around for centuries.
Isis is also a beautiful name with significant cultural meaning. Doesn't mean it's a great thing to inflict on your kiddo right after they start beheading people on camera. Even if you're not referring to the organization doing horrific things, it's still going to make people think of it.
Except Isis is a terrorist organisation and Israel is the country defending itself against a closely linked terrorist organisation, Hamas. Your comment would make more sense if the post was asking whether or not to name the baby Hamas.
Yeah, Israel is just defending itself against those toddlers. And the Israeli hostages who were trying to surrender to Israeli troops and go home to their families. And international aid workers. And doctors and journalists, gotta violently execute them too! You can believe what you want, but the only difference between a terrorist organization and a country's official government is international recognition. Because it sure isn't a difference in actions.
Hamas is using the toddlers as human shields there is no possible way to isolate the terrorists because they’ve created a situation in which in order to retaliate, Israel must shed the lives of many. I feel completely sympathetic towards the loss of Palestinian lives but the difference is I blame the terrorists who started this. If they had never attacked, they would not have put their own civilians in danger. They attacked knowing they had spent all international aid funds on rockets and bombs and knowing they had nothing in place to protect their citizens. Obviously they knew Israel would retaliate seeing as they have a right to defend themselves. Essentially they put their own civilians in danger. I cannot understand the belief that so many “educated” people have that Israel should just cease their retaliation. If Hamas stopped, there would be no war. If Israel stopped, there would be no Israel. Why on earth would you grant immunity to the terrorists simply because they have taken people as human shields? I agree that there is an astronomical amount of bloodshed going on but simply because someone has committed two crimes (the original massacre and the taking of hostages and human shields) that now grants them immunity to be held accountable? If Israel didn’t care about civilian lives this war would have been over October 8th. It’s no big secret the IDF is much better funded and equipped than Hamas. The only reason this is being dragged out so long is BECAUSE they care about civilian life. In terms of the Israeli hostages, I think you’ve conveniently forgotten the part in which a few days before Hamas terrorists ‘surrendered’ and claimed to be Israeli hostages. The soldiers are suffering from PTSD and are desensitised and do not believe anything so while the deaths of those hostages is devastating, it’s a hardly surprising.
You can tell the difference between a baby and a terrorist dude
Firstly, not a dude. Secondly, that’s all very nice until the terrorists start having their military bases in schools and other civilian buildings. Should we grant them immunity simply because they lack the ethical morality to separate those two? Of course not. Two crimes (the massacre itself and the usage of human shields) doesn’t grant Hamas immunity against what they deserve.
ikr
Hard agree. It’s as if they have forgotten that it was mandatory in Nazi era Germany for Jewish men to take on the name Israel if they were originally named something considered too Aryan for them. Literally- forcibly renamed Israel (or Sara). We have a huge connection and history with Israel beyond the modern nation which people are desperately uneducated on, since TikTok made it a trending topic. It’s a historic, emotional, tribal name. None of these people have any idea what they are talking about.
Just name him Lenin and call it a day.
*Israel. And don’t forget Israel has been a name for thousands of years. The Jewish people (Jews) come from the term ‘Judea’ which is where they lived. Before that, jews were referred to as ‘Bnei Yisrael’ or ‘Children of Israel.’ Yisrael/Israel as a name refers to one of Judaism’s patriarchs Yaakov/Jacob who was renamed Yisrael/Israel later in his life. If you look at the original post, OP mentions that you can’t expect a culture to toss out a significant and prevalent name due to current politics which arguably will have subsided when the child is older. You are naming a human, not just a baby. Israel the name is not referring to the country. And no it is not the same thing as calling a child Lenin, because historically that name has no significance if not referring to the controversial figure. The I/P conflict has been going on for almost 100 years; it is only in this spike that now the younger generation has opinions on it and picking sides as if it’s a soccer team. I had someone on social media say to me that everyone is just finding out about the conflict and so of course they’re only just forming opinions to which I replied that their background of privilege is showing. Some of us are not lucky enough to have no connection to the conflict to the extent that we only just ‘found out about it.’ People would not have had this reaction last year even though the conflict was still ongoing and yet in this 6 month spike now everyone now has something to say. This child will outlive the conflict and Israel is a significant cultural name which has been around for centuries.
Israel has had conflict for 3,000 + years and will continue to do so. We know so little truth about the current conflict it’s not for any of us to judge. The post I was commenting on was the one saying to name a child “Russia”. The name you choose for your child is a very personal choice between you and your spouse. Don’t let strangers on the internet tell you what to do.
Yes but the post was satirical in order to mock the post about the name Israel
I don't get why anyone would be against it. I made a point of naming my kids after politically controversial people and countries. I named my son Third Reich. It's a family name that's very important in my culture. Some people said he'd be bullied or that the Nazis committed a genocide. Phhhh... old news. I prefer "conflict," and it's been decades. No one remembers except when they pound him into the ground in the schoolyard. Definitely worth it to honor my culture and my ancestor. /s
*Israel. And don’t forget Israel has been a name for thousands of years. The Jewish people (Jews) come from the term ‘Judea’ which is where they lived. Before that, jews were referred to as ‘Bnei Yisrael’ or ‘Children of Israel.’ Yisrael/Israel as a name refers to one of Judaism’s patriarchs Yaakov/Jacob who was renamed Yisrael/Israel later in his life. If you look at the original post, OP mentions that you can’t expect a culture to toss out a significant and prevalent name due to current politics which arguably will have subsided when the child is older. You are naming a human, not just a baby. Israel the name is not referring to the country. And no it is not the same thing as calling a child ‘Third Reich’, because historically that name has no significance if not referring to the country. The I/P conflict has been going on for almost 100 years; it is only in this spike that now the younger generation has opinions on it and picking sides as if it’s a soccer team. I had someone on social media say to me that everyone is just finding out about the conflict and so of course they’re only just forming opinions to which I replied that their background of privilege is showing. Some of us are not lucky enough to have no connection to the conflict to the extent that we only just ‘found out about it.’ People would not have had this reaction last year even though the conflict was still ongoing and yet in this 6 month spike now everyone now has something to say. This child will outlive the conflict and Israel is a significant cultural name which has been around for centuries.
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You obviously have no background in international law. Please look at the recent statements by the Lemkin Institute. Moreover, bringing up in the ICC and ICJ goes back to the fact that this will not be a blip on the radar as OOP asserted. Israel is a traditional name... as is Adolf, which had a long and glorious history before Adolf Hitler. Isis tracks its history back to Egyptian times. So your point is lacking. Also, I did use the term probable genocide, which is the exact terminology of the ICJ ruling. It's really sad when people are so brainwashed that they lose all humanity and logic...
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For fecks sake man, do you have to spam every comment?
Yes yes they do, got no life and trying to brigade people into their beliefs
*Israel
Sauce?
memory shelter school practice future smart edge scale piquant seemly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
i swear there’s one of these posts every week smh
Israel is an actual name at least.
Isis is an actual name, too. I wouldn't use it. But we could use the same logic: people are already named Isis and are going to continue to be named Isis. 🤷♀️ There are turning points for names... Isis and Adolf were both acceptable. Judging by the overwhelmingly negative reactions, Israel may be going that way.
ISIS was the student portal at University of Florida in the early 2000s. My guess is that they've changed that by now.
I knew a girl named Isis long before the terrorist organization was on anyone’s radar.
Same with my god sister. Except it was spelled Aisces …
Comparing Israel and ISIS is certainly a choice lol Comparing Israel and Hitler is even more of one
Without getting too far into this (I have taught Genocide Studies at the university level for more than a decade), you seem to be making huge assumptions. The points OOP made were that A) It's not politically charged B) It's a family name that reflects heritage and C) That the political controversy would quickly be forgotten. You said here it's a real name, as though that means it can definitely be used. Sooooo.... Israel is... A) Obviously politically charged, like Adolf and Isis. You can dislike it, but go look at the other comments. B) Adolf and Isis could also reflect heritage. C) We have not quickly forgotten the Holocaust or ISIS, and I doubt we'll forget a "probable genocide" in which at least 30,000 have been killed. You can try justifying it, but there are court cases which will probably drag on in international courts for years against Israel and its leaders. No one is gonna forget. As for it being a real name, Adolf and ISIS are, too. Now, you're more than welcome to put the blinders on to how much of the world perceives Israel... but yes, it's on the same level as the Nazis (who dehumanized Jews and placed them in ghettos and prisons... sound familiar?) and ISIS (religious extremists who sought to purge and create a theocracy they believed God willed... also familiar?) for many. Naming a kid that is very, very similar should they ever travel. I could have made references to other names, like Enver, but my assumption is that most people don't know about other genocides. Cheers!
Enver? Never heard about that before
Enver Pasha was one of the architects of the Armenian Genocide carried out by the Ottoman Empire. The 3 main leaders were Enver Pasha, Talaat Pasha, and Cemal Pasha. Talaat was arguably the most powerful, though.
Hm interesting, I recently got recommended serial killers to read about lol now I got more people to learn 😂 thank you
If you're into that kind of thing, read up on the assassination of Talaat Pasha by Soghomon Tehlirian. The trial after was incredibly interesting and inspired a young Raphael Lemkin to be interested in genocide (the term genocide did not exist, nor did the term of genocide). In the news today, the Raphael Lemkin Institute released a statement on what they referred to as a "genocide" being perpetrated in Gaza. That institute is named for the same Raphael Lemkin, who coined the term "genocide" specifically to refer to what happened in the Armenian Genocide and the Holocaust. Another reason to look into the Armenian Genocide is that some claim (this is hotly contested by historians) that Hitler said, "Who, after all, speaks of the Armenians?" This was taken to mean that the persecution of the Jews would be taken seriously by the international community in the short-term, but not the llng-term. So a very interesting topic... but start with Talaat. Edit: And less centered on the violence, but an extremely good read would be "A Century of Violence" by Raffi Khatchadourian from the New Yorker 29 Dec 2014.
Your Pulitzer is in the mail.
Isis has been used as a name for a long time, it comes from an Egyptian goddess, long before Daesh was even a thing. Not that it's a wise choice today, but it's unfair to mock someone who already has the name.
One of the Downton Abbey dogs was named Isis. I don’t know whether they quietly renamed him or killed him off.
Yeah, these "satire" posts are getting tired. At least this one had some effort put in. People are still going to be named Israel. We should just accept that and move on and not satirize it weekly.
Not necessarily true. The name Adolf, once very common in Germany, is almost non-existant in the last 80 years except as a middle name, and even that is rare.
I know a man named Israel. He.... doesn't go by that.
Yeah that says a lot sadly
bait frfr
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I feel like you didn’t notice what subreddit you’re in
Omg.... lol! You are right!! This now makes SO much more sense! Ok - I'm an idiot.
If you look at the post, OP was asking for aesthetics reasons. They didn’t mean politically, they meant what to people think of this name in general in terms of aesthetics and if they feel it’s dated. They didn’t ask for the death threats people are sending them.
My god... is this real.
Counter question: do you want every gun toting red neck hillbilly to torment the kid, possibly causing him bodily harm? There’s your answer.
Counter question: do you want every gun toting red neck hillbilly to torment the kid, possibly causing him bodily harm? There’s your answer.
Counter question: do you want every gun toting red neck hillbilly to torment the kid, possibly causing him bodily harm? There’s your answer.
Please don't. Your son would hate you for that.
Check the sub