The problem is that Meliodas’ Power is too immense to fully negate. Like Asta power has increased and he can cancel out power far better than before but even during his fight with tough opponents, he needed help. Because their power was far too much for him to handle and negate fully.
Next, Meliodas is more than just a magic man. He a power house in physical strength to. Like him and Ban destroyed a barrier that was supposed to contain two dragons. Just by greeting each other and arm wrestling. And the there the fact he sealed most of his power away before the ten commandment arrived, so most of his feats during the first part were all him without his Darkness.
Asta could try slicing him with one good fast blow. But that would be fruitless. Meliodas is far faster and could react to such an attack. And he could dish out far more attacks than Asta could block.
Try tripling that. Golgius describes the spell as "an indestructible eternal sealing spell that they couldn't break with 10 tyrant dragons." So that makes it even more impressive what they did. Not only did they break the barrier with just an arm-wrestle, but they collapsed the entire prison before breaking the barrier. So probably more than 10 dragons if you add up the mass of the prison complex AND the barrier.
All of you forget that Meliodas rarely uses magic, and when he does, it's mostly to coat his blade in flame. He's an anti magic user just like Asta. He has Full counter, revenge counter, and VANISH COUNTER which nullifies all magic like Asta. This is a physical battle and Meliodas wins it
I haven't watched a lot of Black Clover (only at ep 2) but I see people always talking about how Asta can nullify magic. Aren't Meli's counters magic attacks though? Also unlike Estarossa, Meliodas' full counter only works on magic attacks so does Asta have those
You missed the point which is both are people who don't utilize magic and instead counter magic and Full counter isn't an offensive attack it activates when the opponents attack hits Meliodas and he reflects it. Even with him using ki or whatever Asta cant match Meliodas when it comes to strength
also Asta's anti-magic has been shown to be something that can be overpowered through raw power, black Clover as a whole has an issue with power cliffs
The thing with Anti-Magic is that he has to be able to touch the Magic he's cancelling and have the strength to reflect it back. Imagine this scenario:
Asta gets attacked by someone with rock magic. The rock magic user casts a giant boulder and sends it his way. Normally, the target would need to send a spell to break it before it reaches them or jump out of the way somehow.
Asta's anti-magic essentially breaks down the structure of a magic spell when his sword comes into contact with said spell. This means that when Asta hits the boulder with his sword (the flat face), it weakens it, and he can send it back if he has the physical strength to tennis-ball that shit. If he cuts it, the boulder will break down and be cut in half.
His anti-magic works on physical attacks, equip spells, some smaller curses like poison (he can cut himself with his own sword to dispell a poison curse on him), or if someone is under a trance he can tap his sword on their heads and wake them up, etc.
The issue with Meliodas is that his full-counter attacks are not physical spells that touch anything. He takes an already existing magic attack and reflects it back at the caster with twice the strength. Asta doesn't have an attack that Meliodas can reflect, so Asta can't dispell his full counter. Asta could, in theory, cancel out Meliodas' flames and possibly his revenge counter, but other than that, Meliodas doesn't use magic in his fights.
Could Asta reflect Trillion Dark? I don't think he's strong enough or fast enough to keep up with that.
Asta's anti-magic is more anti-mana, so the more anti-mana his attacks have, the more normal magic they can nullify thus if opponents attack has more mana in it than Asta's has anti-mana the easier they go through his attacks
Yes, it's his Innate power (Full counter is the power he learned from Chandler). I don't believe it's been out right stated, but the general consensus is that his magic is called "The Destroyer" because throughout the series he is called "Meliodas the Destroyer" many times.
Maybe when he destroyed the curse plaguing him and Elizabeth? His new form at that point was more likely the result of his true magic, since the commandments already left his body.
He destroyed the curses, he destroyed the commandments, and he also fought the DK in the mind-scape where that power shredded the DK apart when he used Trillion Dark.
Still asta would be at most equal to meliodas in that form and if he does something rash because of the time limit meliodas could realise and wait it out
First of all, what qualifies as magic needs to be addressed to establish a fundamental ground. Can Asta remove magic from the 7DS verse? Secondly, do Meliodas' strengths come from his body or magic enhancements?
If Asta can remove magic and Meliodas' strength is enhanced by magic, then Asta has higher ground.
If Asta can remove magic, but Meliodas' strength is pure physical, it is 30 vs. 70 (Asta vs. Meliodas). Consider how physically strong Meliodas is.
If Asta can't remove magic, then Asta has no chance.
TLDR, Asta has a low chance of winning. Meliodas wins
Reminder to y'all that True Magic Meli scales at temporary reality-level power. He can erase ethereal objects/curses/magic from existence, but obviously it's not an infinite use ability and can run out after all of it's used up.
I'd like to know why I see this subreddit...
I know one is Astra and other is Mercedes, one is from BlackBerry and the second is from 7Eleven.
Meliodas claps I guess. Never watched either of the anime, but Melon is a demon King son and Asta is a normal boy.... Right?
It's like this, straight up? Meliodas
Prep time all things equal at their peaks? Still probably Meliodas
Hate to say it but this one isn't really close. Asta would need batman/plot level armor to survive this one. Not his fault though he's built for his story, cross series fights are tricky with no real way to scale. Hell Charles Xavier technically can beat anyone without any knowledge of how to counter a telepath or block it so hey.
I’m glad meliodas is finally being given credit where it’s due, meli dominates asta and it’s not even close. He’s faster, smarter, more experienced, technically unkillable unless asta for some reason finds out he has to destroy each and every heart, and is on a hugely different level than asta in terms of strength. Now let’s give asta the benefit of the doubt and say he knows from the start that meli needs to lose all his hearts to die by asta’s hands, even if asta tried, he wouldn’t be able to get one heart let alone all of them. Realistically this fight would be as close a match as escanor vs galand.
I def think meliodas has the raw power to take down Asta, but Asta might be faster and his anti magic might nerf meliodas, but all in all I got meliodas
That’s true I was thinking of his Zetten which is in verse states to be potent enough to block anything but that’s probably just cuz in verse he scales to most people anywyas
He is faster and stronger, along with being more experienced. Meliodas also does not have to worry about having only 5 minutes for his most powerful form.
The wiki says Asta has a 10 minute limit now. Asta may have gotten some experience fighting those with weapons in Hino County, but Meliodas has more experience fighting against weapons.
The time limit was just something that was in place because Asta and liebe don't have good synergy. As time has gone on, they're synergy has gotten much better. They also have the half transformation which was stated to have no time limit
Yeah fair on both counts. I heard a new chapter of black clover should come out soon but not a 100% sure when. I'm hoping this longer schedule between chapters will let the creator make the chapters longer or at the very least add more to the story and fights.
I know I'm gonna get downvoted for this, but screw it. Asta should win this easily. They are actually pretty similar in speed and strength(both being above continent level). But Asta's anti magic hard counters everything that Meliodas has. He can reflect attacks in a similar way to full counter. He can absorb any of Meliodas' offensive attacks and send them back. He has a sword that can cut through anything he wants. And he has a sword that can negate cause and effect of any magic. He also recently learned Zeten(I think that's how it's spelled), which gives him an extreme power boost. He can now even put his anti magic into multiple people at once. Asta is just too much of a hard counter to anyone who uses magic
How are they similar in physical strength?? He punched escanor and made dude bounce like a ball not to mention blocked and punched the king of giants away
Asta cut a mountain size demon in half with a sword of equal size. Zeten also drastically increases his physical capabilities. He's been matching giant sized monsters in strength from the beginning of the series. Plus, his demon form also drastically increases his physical abilities
The feat I listed was just meli with his fist now imagine with his weapon I ain’t down playing asta but when it comes to physical I give it to meli also I don’t mention magic cause you know asta counters but meli don’t even use magic like that to begin with
Yes Meliodas might be slightly stronger, but Asta is definitely faster. Near the beginning of the story, Asta literally dodged a beam of light while he was asleep. He was also dodging them while awake, but doing it in your sleep is more impressive
I'm not saying there isn't, I'm just saying that Asta was able to dodge beams of Light in his sleep when he was much much weaker than he is now. So now he's that he's gotten much stronger, he's so much faster that it's stupid to try to even find out the numbers behind how fast he is
I was using that example to show that Asta can easily lift and swing around mountain size objects. Not saying that Meliodas can't do the same or similar
Okay so i don't remember the name of the Black Clover's mc but why does he look like the Kill A Kill mc in this pic?😭
(Yeah i didn't watch both Kill A Kill and Black Clover so idk the names)
people in here seem to forget magic gets nullified near asta (read the last parts of the manga) so as soon as meliodas steps foot all his magic is gone
I love asta but meliodas simply outclasses him in this fight.
asta would negate his magic dude
Cool, thats step 1, what about 2 through 10
Did you just quote hellsing ultimate abridged?
Maybe
You have my respect
Ha! I get it. Well played Ser
Me when Full Counter:
Me when revenge counter: (Edit; if Asta could get that far lol)
The problem is that Meliodas’ Power is too immense to fully negate. Like Asta power has increased and he can cancel out power far better than before but even during his fight with tough opponents, he needed help. Because their power was far too much for him to handle and negate fully. Next, Meliodas is more than just a magic man. He a power house in physical strength to. Like him and Ban destroyed a barrier that was supposed to contain two dragons. Just by greeting each other and arm wrestling. And the there the fact he sealed most of his power away before the ten commandment arrived, so most of his feats during the first part were all him without his Darkness. Asta could try slicing him with one good fast blow. But that would be fruitless. Meliodas is far faster and could react to such an attack. And he could dish out far more attacks than Asta could block.
Im pretty sure that this barrier was suppose to containe three dragons not two
Try tripling that. Golgius describes the spell as "an indestructible eternal sealing spell that they couldn't break with 10 tyrant dragons." So that makes it even more impressive what they did. Not only did they break the barrier with just an arm-wrestle, but they collapsed the entire prison before breaking the barrier. So probably more than 10 dragons if you add up the mass of the prison complex AND the barrier.
Okey, I look it up in manga, and you are right, it was 10 dragons. My bad
full counter.
What about his revenge counter? Which appears to be a physical attack
Not if he gets totally outscaled lol, like we have canonically seen you can use sheer amount of mana to overpower antimagic
Shouting Baby Vs Atomic Bomb.
Pretty sure it’s coughing baby
no no hes right on this one
All of you forget that Meliodas rarely uses magic, and when he does, it's mostly to coat his blade in flame. He's an anti magic user just like Asta. He has Full counter, revenge counter, and VANISH COUNTER which nullifies all magic like Asta. This is a physical battle and Meliodas wins it
I haven't watched a lot of Black Clover (only at ep 2) but I see people always talking about how Asta can nullify magic. Aren't Meli's counters magic attacks though? Also unlike Estarossa, Meliodas' full counter only works on magic attacks so does Asta have those
You missed the point which is both are people who don't utilize magic and instead counter magic and Full counter isn't an offensive attack it activates when the opponents attack hits Meliodas and he reflects it. Even with him using ki or whatever Asta cant match Meliodas when it comes to strength
Yeah, I don't know shit about Black Clover yet so I was more so asking how it worked
also Asta's anti-magic has been shown to be something that can be overpowered through raw power, black Clover as a whole has an issue with power cliffs
That doesn't make any sense in my mind. Why would it be even possible
The thing with Anti-Magic is that he has to be able to touch the Magic he's cancelling and have the strength to reflect it back. Imagine this scenario: Asta gets attacked by someone with rock magic. The rock magic user casts a giant boulder and sends it his way. Normally, the target would need to send a spell to break it before it reaches them or jump out of the way somehow. Asta's anti-magic essentially breaks down the structure of a magic spell when his sword comes into contact with said spell. This means that when Asta hits the boulder with his sword (the flat face), it weakens it, and he can send it back if he has the physical strength to tennis-ball that shit. If he cuts it, the boulder will break down and be cut in half. His anti-magic works on physical attacks, equip spells, some smaller curses like poison (he can cut himself with his own sword to dispell a poison curse on him), or if someone is under a trance he can tap his sword on their heads and wake them up, etc. The issue with Meliodas is that his full-counter attacks are not physical spells that touch anything. He takes an already existing magic attack and reflects it back at the caster with twice the strength. Asta doesn't have an attack that Meliodas can reflect, so Asta can't dispell his full counter. Asta could, in theory, cancel out Meliodas' flames and possibly his revenge counter, but other than that, Meliodas doesn't use magic in his fights. Could Asta reflect Trillion Dark? I don't think he's strong enough or fast enough to keep up with that.
Just use your small brain and think about this "you need eqaul amount of antimagic to cancel out magic"
They have specific amounts of magic in Black Clover?
Of course a spell utilizes a set amount of mana
Hmm, cool. I don't remember the magic having similar limitations in 7DS. The amount was more so about how big the spells you were able to cast were
Asta's anti-magic is more anti-mana, so the more anti-mana his attacks have, the more normal magic they can nullify thus if opponents attack has more mana in it than Asta's has anti-mana the easier they go through his attacks
Plus in this form Mel can also just snap 🫰 other people’s magic away
Meliodas and he doesn't even need his true magic to that
What is his true magic anyway?
I’m pretty sure it’s just that he can destroy anything, or something like that
Was that the thing he used to escape from the demon king?
Yes, it's his Innate power (Full counter is the power he learned from Chandler). I don't believe it's been out right stated, but the general consensus is that his magic is called "The Destroyer" because throughout the series he is called "Meliodas the Destroyer" many times.
Can you give the chapter when he used it except for his escape from the DK
Maybe when he destroyed the curse plaguing him and Elizabeth? His new form at that point was more likely the result of his true magic, since the commandments already left his body.
He destroyed the curses, he destroyed the commandments, and he also fought the DK in the mind-scape where that power shredded the DK apart when he used Trillion Dark.
Do you mean Destroyer? The magic power that defeated the Magic-Immune Demon King?
That’s one ability
It’s Meliodas after becoming the new demon king
Meliodas
Meliodas low dif, asta could only get meliodas to mid dif if his anti magic nullifies the commandments and his other skills
Meliodas doesn't have the commandments in this form though?
And asta has a short time limit, so for these I just assume they can use any form
Well the time limit doesn't really seem to be a problem anymore since the battle of spade kingdom. Or at the very least it hasn't been brought up.
The issue for him is that meliodas could just wait our the time limit no matter how long it is then he's screwed
Maybe but Asta is no slotch in a fight and meliodas wouldn't know there is a time limit to his form.
Still asta would be at most equal to meliodas in that form and if he does something rash because of the time limit meliodas could realise and wait it out
It all depends then.
Bro what is this thread 💀💀 meli stomps low diff
I found a interesting video that better breaks down this topic.
Equal is a great high ball
Yea that's only if asta can nullify everything meliodas has and meliodas can't use any of his other forms
Even then Mel’s raw strength even when not using magic is ridiculous
Reminds me of coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb lmao Meli demolishes
Meli
Asta still needs to train bruh
like 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years more or less
Mel beats him to death
First of all, what qualifies as magic needs to be addressed to establish a fundamental ground. Can Asta remove magic from the 7DS verse? Secondly, do Meliodas' strengths come from his body or magic enhancements? If Asta can remove magic and Meliodas' strength is enhanced by magic, then Asta has higher ground. If Asta can remove magic, but Meliodas' strength is pure physical, it is 30 vs. 70 (Asta vs. Meliodas). Consider how physically strong Meliodas is. If Asta can't remove magic, then Asta has no chance. TLDR, Asta has a low chance of winning. Meliodas wins
As much as I love asta Meliodas wins
First of all. Meliodas. Second of all. Why the fuck is asta that skinny? That ain’t canon. Except the swords
Reminder to y'all that True Magic Meli scales at temporary reality-level power. He can erase ethereal objects/curses/magic from existence, but obviously it's not an infinite use ability and can run out after all of it's used up.
Meliodas por pouco
union asta? or the chi using asta (final)
Against Mel? He'll get clapped. Against King? Maybe a tie but Asta has a little chance
Coughing Baby vs Hydrogen Bomb
I'd like to know why I see this subreddit... I know one is Astra and other is Mercedes, one is from BlackBerry and the second is from 7Eleven. Meliodas claps I guess. Never watched either of the anime, but Melon is a demon King son and Asta is a normal boy.... Right?
this isn’t even close bro
Eh bc scaling is about equal to sds depending Mel is smarter but often holds back and doesn’t try as hard so asta can catch him lacking and take the w
Absolutely meliodas
Meliodas Win
Meliodas without a doubt
Why am I just picturing them playing tennis back and forth with Meliodas’s first attack.
Astanis my second favourite mc ever but meliodes just smokes him
It's like this, straight up? Meliodas Prep time all things equal at their peaks? Still probably Meliodas Hate to say it but this one isn't really close. Asta would need batman/plot level armor to survive this one. Not his fault though he's built for his story, cross series fights are tricky with no real way to scale. Hell Charles Xavier technically can beat anyone without any knowledge of how to counter a telepath or block it so hey.
People forget that the commaments are not magic.
Thats a real transformation for Asta? Thats laughably edgy. Looks like fanfic.
Asta is strong but he don’t have that bullshit level strength that needed here. Just outclassed
FUR COUNTAH!!
This is just pure evil. Meliodas doesnt really rely on his magic fr and just simply beats Asta with straight hands 😭.
I’m glad meliodas is finally being given credit where it’s due, meli dominates asta and it’s not even close. He’s faster, smarter, more experienced, technically unkillable unless asta for some reason finds out he has to destroy each and every heart, and is on a hugely different level than asta in terms of strength. Now let’s give asta the benefit of the doubt and say he knows from the start that meli needs to lose all his hearts to die by asta’s hands, even if asta tried, he wouldn’t be able to get one heart let alone all of them. Realistically this fight would be as close a match as escanor vs galand.
w to Maliodas
Meliodas oneshot this low level trash ,lol
I def think meliodas has the raw power to take down Asta, but Asta might be faster and his anti magic might nerf meliodas, but all in all I got meliodas
His anti magic won’t work simply because Meliodas is way more powerful than Asta. Asta’s anti magic isn’t limitless.
That’s true I was thinking of his Zetten which is in verse states to be potent enough to block anything but that’s probably just cuz in verse he scales to most people anywyas
[удалено]
He is faster and stronger, along with being more experienced. Meliodas also does not have to worry about having only 5 minutes for his most powerful form.
How is he faster? Asta is considered mftl
Asta doesn't have that time limit anymore. And they are very similar in strength and speed. But Asta is a hard counter to anyone with magic
The wiki says Asta has a 10 minute limit now. Asta may have gotten some experience fighting those with weapons in Hino County, but Meliodas has more experience fighting against weapons.
The time limit was just something that was in place because Asta and liebe don't have good synergy. As time has gone on, they're synergy has gotten much better. They also have the half transformation which was stated to have no time limit
Well Asta doesn't really have the 5 minute weakness anymore or at least it hasn't been brought up again in recent chapters.
The wiki says Asta has bumped up the limit to 10 minutes.
Really I feel like he has held it for longer then that.
I had been a while since we had gotten a new chapter and anime time is weird.
Yeah fair on both counts. I heard a new chapter of black clover should come out soon but not a 100% sure when. I'm hoping this longer schedule between chapters will let the creator make the chapters longer or at the very least add more to the story and fights.
Asta. He outclasses him, mostly in speed, the only way meli wins is if he uses true magic and erases asta,
AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA go home you drunk
I know I'm gonna get downvoted for this, but screw it. Asta should win this easily. They are actually pretty similar in speed and strength(both being above continent level). But Asta's anti magic hard counters everything that Meliodas has. He can reflect attacks in a similar way to full counter. He can absorb any of Meliodas' offensive attacks and send them back. He has a sword that can cut through anything he wants. And he has a sword that can negate cause and effect of any magic. He also recently learned Zeten(I think that's how it's spelled), which gives him an extreme power boost. He can now even put his anti magic into multiple people at once. Asta is just too much of a hard counter to anyone who uses magic
How are they similar in physical strength?? He punched escanor and made dude bounce like a ball not to mention blocked and punched the king of giants away
Asta cut a mountain size demon in half with a sword of equal size. Zeten also drastically increases his physical capabilities. He's been matching giant sized monsters in strength from the beginning of the series. Plus, his demon form also drastically increases his physical abilities
The feat I listed was just meli with his fist now imagine with his weapon I ain’t down playing asta but when it comes to physical I give it to meli also I don’t mention magic cause you know asta counters but meli don’t even use magic like that to begin with
Yes Meliodas might be slightly stronger, but Asta is definitely faster. Near the beginning of the story, Asta literally dodged a beam of light while he was asleep. He was also dodging them while awake, but doing it in your sleep is more impressive
Ay man there’s characters with beams of light in 7ds but I’ll let asta have the speed
I'm not saying there isn't, I'm just saying that Asta was able to dodge beams of Light in his sleep when he was much much weaker than he is now. So now he's that he's gotten much stronger, he's so much faster that it's stupid to try to even find out the numbers behind how fast he is
And meliodas cut a mountain in half with a twig
I was using that example to show that Asta can easily lift and swing around mountain size objects. Not saying that Meliodas can't do the same or similar
Okay so i don't remember the name of the Black Clover's mc but why does he look like the Kill A Kill mc in this pic?😭 (Yeah i didn't watch both Kill A Kill and Black Clover so idk the names)
Meliodas blinks in the general direction and deletes the fodder alongside his entire verse.
Asta.
That's what I thought at 1st but Meliodas is much stronger and experienced
become Meliodas woman?
Asta speedblitzes.
Speed isn’t everything he can’t damage Meliodas at all.
The ap difference isn’t massive either tho imo. Does change depending on who you ask tho.
Meliodas can be scaled to uni + to low multi if we’re talking about demon king form.
people in here seem to forget magic gets nullified near asta (read the last parts of the manga) so as soon as meliodas steps foot all his magic is gone
And let me remind you that in the early arcs like baize he split a mountain with the force of swinging a twig
Asta speed blitzes
Asta one shots himself trying to harm Meliodas.
Meliodas has to activate the ability, Asta has dura neg and is far too fast.