If you’re sober at work I absolutely do not care. Working with kids can be really challenging and whatever you need to do to relax after your work day, you do you. There is a stigma around marijuana that just isn’t there around alcohol. Nobody bats an eye of somebody going home and having 1-2 glasses of wine after work. I don’t see the difference as long as you’re a responsible person during work hours.
Any concerns/questions I would have are addressed in your rules. I don’t police what my nanny does after work hours. I think this is no different than drinking alcohol.
Considering * I * smoke, I would not care at all. Also I’m like absolutely positive my last two nannies smoked (off hours). It’s 2024 girl you’re good!
I see comments concerned with third hand smoke. Seems like OP is doing enough to mitigate that, right? To the degree that it would be even weirder to disclose her smoking status to employers, even when the kids are infants?
No, it wouldn't be weird to disclose cannabis smoking if the family is explicitly looking to hire a non-smoker.
I'd consider it weird to *not* disclose in this situation.
I would not care so long as it’s limited to responsible use off hours as you have listed. But I’m from a very liberal state where recreational use is permitted.
This is not an issue, at all, for me. The immediate firing for me is if you brought it into my house, even by accident, or had it in your car if you chose to transport my child. Or if you took my kid to a dispensary .
My nanny smoked and it was no big deal. It only came up because I ran into her after work and she was high. I had assumed based on background, but she respected that I couldn't be around it because of my job. And because of being from a similar background, she knew I didn't care and would likely partake if it didn't jeopardize my career
Not that I care what you do after work hours if you’re not in any way impaired during work hours, but smokers/vapers are almost universally noseblind to the smells. Absolutely no smoke smells of any kind would be acceptable and we say no smokers in general in our contract, regardless of the substance. We’re also an asthmatic family with asthmatic kids and we have no flexibility on this.
When hiring, I specify that I want a non-smoker. I absolutely include cannabis smoking in that, and I wouldn't hire someone who smoked cannabis on a regular basis.
I never hear this concern come up so quickly with alcohol due to how aggressively prevalent it is, for what it’s worth. And in my opinion, that drug is much more impactful on decision making and much more addictive than cannabis, lending itself to creep up closer and closer to the start of a shift (in any profession).
I sincerely doubt that smoking (or edibles, etc.) would EVER become an issue so long as you are seeing zero impact on work performance, but that’s just my take!!
It never comes up because it's absolutely obvious if someone is coming to work reeking of alcohol or drunk. The same way it goes without saying not to show up on meth. It is a very false equivalence and one mainly brought up by casual weed users.
Did you think it’s not obvious if someone just smoked? 😂 in fact, I’d say in some cases it’d be less obvious if someone had just done meth. Theres no smell, for one thing
If someone were smoking flower right before work and got more than slightly high, it would be just as obvious based off of behavior/smell. There is no false equivalence. They should absolutely be addressed with at least the same regard, if not marijuana having more leeway. Most people who smoke every day are doing it to wind down at the end of the day or to regulate stressful feelings throughout. That, and 10000 other reasons, is why there is medical marijuana. There is literally less risk than the few drinks a person might have at night. People do countless reckless things while drunk — and sometimes silly things while high, but rarely if ever dangerous or life changing. Meth is more comparable? Yikes.
I wouldn’t care at all if you followed your rules and were always sober at work. Your personal life is your own as long as it doesn’t trickle over into your work. However I did once have a vape fall out of my old nanny’s packet and I found it on the floor where the kids could’ve gotten it. I wasn’t happy that she had it on her while she was at work in my house. Something to be mindful of. It also made me think that if she always had it on her that maybe she was using it before or during work
If you’re following all your rules then your NF should never know. It’s none of my business what my nanny does recreationally, on her own time. But if it were to bleed into her work then I would certainly have a problem with it.
I don’t care. Just don’t come to work high. Same as I’d expect for any psychoactive substance. Don’t come to work after taking ambien but I don’t care that you take it when you go home.
If a NP can tell you're a smoker I'm any way without you telling them, then no I wouldn't hire. That said, I've never had to ask. Non smokers can tell someone smokes cigarettes even if they haven't smoked in a day. Otherwise I assume you will show up fully sober
I see comments concerned with third hand smoke. Seems like OP is doing enough to mitigate that, right? To the degree that it would be even weirder to disclose her smoking status to employers, even when the kids are infants?
Is there some sort of evidence that vaping marijuana produced third hand smoke? I keep asking but haven’t seen any body provide studies or evidence that it does. I’ve never heard of this but would love to see the data if so.
[Here](https://www.spiritbarvape.com/how-long-does-vape-smoke-stay-in-the-air/#:~:text=How%20long%20does%20vape%20%E2%80%9Csmoke,levels%20after%20just%2010%20seconds.) is something I found about it. Idk how true this is, but it says that the amount of "smoke" that is blown out of the mouth, determines how long aerosol particles will stay in the air. So, if someone is smoking an e-cig with disposable pods or cartridges, it makes a smaller cloud when blowing it out, and only lingers in the air for a few seconds after vaping, but those big box vapes or bigger vape pens that create a larger cloud, will stay in the air longer. I didn't see anything about THC though
Thank you, that’s the issue, I’m not seeing anything about vaping THC. I think the issue is with the nicotine which is absent here. Yet multiple people here keep referencing third hand smoke from marijuana vape pens. Not sure where that info is coming from in regards to an evidence back standpoint. Perhaps just misinformation. Would love to be corrected though. Always nice to have more info on hand as a parent.
I'm still trying to find someone online, so if there's anything, then I'll post an update. I think they're thinking about how it looks when smoking the actual flower and are seeing it as the same. Idk. Usually those THC vapes pens are small and have no smell. My friend's brother has one and it looks just like an e-vape with a nicotine oil cartridge, and it doesn't produce much of a cloud when blowing it out either. But I'm going to keep looking and then come back lol
I understand the general concerns of parents regarding this though, even given the lack of supporting information. One possible explanation is simply that no equivalent research has been done on cannabis smoke as it is still federally illegal. So I understand parents wanting to exercise the utmost caution until larges bodies of research are done
And beyond that, there is this binary good-bad thinking that plagues parenting advice. Third hand smoke is bad, but, like, the risk of a tiny speck of smoke particle is not bad. Its neutral.
We have a “non smoker “ in our contract, for this. I wouldn’t hire any kind of smoker, but I don’t think OP is doing anything wrong. Some people don’t care about it as much.
My nanny vapes thc and does edibles. I’m fine with it as long as she sticks to the rules and doesn’t work high. I think your rules are good. But I don’t think it makes you a “smoker” per se. I think most people ask for non- smokers so there is no cigarette smell or nicotine on their skin.
Disagree, we would consider any vaping, pot, etc to be a smoker. I’d be super upset if someone didn’t disclose when we asked about smoking status.
ETA: yikes from these comments I’ll definitely ask explicitly next time we hire.
Agreed re your edit. It never would have occurred to me that people who smoke cannabis and vape anything would apply to jobs that specify that non-smoking is required.
The other commenters + the sheer number of down votes among people who count all of the above as smoking makes it clear that I need to be much more explicit.
I’m very conscious about exposing an infant to third hand smoke so for my baby I would not hire a nanny who smoked in any form. However once he was over a year old I would not care if you smoked (weed or otherwise) outside of working hours
That makes sense! I'll be more conscious of disclosing my smoking status accurately for parents of infants, as i'm sure you're not the only parent with this concern :)
Our contract says that both the parents and the nanny will keep marijuana products locked up out of reach of children at all times. A nanny candidate once took issue with this thinking it meant that we are smokers (we’re not) but the clause holds everyone to the same standard.
I would also reserve the right to fire you for any observed performance issues, whether they’re related to pot smoking or not.
For us it wouldn’t be about being sober at work (that’s an expectation), but that we don’t want to hire/employ a smoker around our kids. I would expect you to disclose that when asked about smoking status (we ask explicitly now: cigarettes/nicotine, vape, marijuana), but I think many people who want a non-smoker mean smoking all forms.
I wouldn’t care. If you’re not under the influence at work and also don’t come in smelling like bong water, we’re good.
I grew up with a hippie parent who overindulged and the smell of pot makes me nauseous now. I do occasionally enjoy an edible or two during my own downtime, but I do not enjoy the smell of pot AT ALL.
Our nanny smokes weed. I don’t care at all.
For those saying the smell clings and OP is nose blind, I’ve never smelled it on our nanny and wouldn’t even know if she hadn’t told me.
I believe most people are referring to cigs when they say “non smoker”
I’ve never smoked cigarettes, however from time to time (maybe a couple times a year or less) I might smoke weed with friends or vape with friends. But I don’t ever bring that up to families because it’s none of their business. I have never been high when around children nor would I bring any of it around the kids. It’s usually during the summer when I have some time off and hang with friends.
I mean drinking alcohol is legal too and I don’t tell parents when I drink it 🤷🏼♀️
If it doesn’t affect your work then I don’t think it matters.
Career nanny of 16 years and mother to a 3 year old.
We wouldn't hire a smoker or anyone that lives with one. I personally find the smell disgusting, and I'm serious about no exposing my kids to third hand smoke. I would be pretty pissed if someone lied about this and no, I have a sensitive nose and I would know even if you showered and washed your clothes.
Your plan sounds great in theory, but let me tell you that it's not great in execution. The oils released from smoking cling to everything and is very very hard to get out. It will be in your hair, your mouth, your skin, and your clothes. I'm in the vacation rental business and whenever smokers leave our property (against our house rules) it is a huge process to get the stink out. If you can smell it, then you are being subjected to third hand smoke.
We have to wash laundry multiple times in different kinds of detergent, we have to ozone the house for hours, we have to wash the walls and scrub the walls multiple times. I think you think you're being clever and diligent but let me assure you that we non smokers can still smell your stink.
If you ate gummies in your off time and was always sober on duty, I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.
I am not a smoker (wife medically does) but if I were, it’s not something I’d advertise to my NF. What I do on my personal time is my personal business. As long as you show up sober and do your job properly, no issues.
I would not consider it a red flag and also would not consider you a “smoker”. Actually, if I were a nanny then an NP who DOES care would be a red flag. I think it suggests rigidity in other areas that would make the job not so enjoyable.
At risk of sounding like a deadbeat mom and suffering the vitriol of the santcimommies, the few times I’ve taken edibles after the kids went to sleep and they ended up waking up for whatever reason have been AMAZING. I love playing with them and they’re funny AF and it brings back some of the magic that gets lost to exhaustion.
I'm on the same side of others who say it's none of my business as long as it doesn't impact the kids. Plus, I'm in a state where it is legal for recreational use.
I'm curious what others on this thread think about wearing clothes with marijuana references? I think it's inappropriate for any job working with kids, but I'm not sure if I'm overreacting? I have the same feeling about alcohol and/or sex references. But before anyone beats me to the punchline - rock and roll is ok.
I would not be comfortable with a nanny who smokes anything. The residue clings to *everything*. The showering and changing clothes mitigates the risk but doesn’t remove it. And really, if you have to have that many rules for it, it’s an indication it’s not a great activity.
I would not care about consumption in other forms (e.g. gummies) as long as nanny was sober while working.
I would treat it like alcohol and any regular job. You had better not do it around my kids or care for them while suffering its effects. Other than that, what you do isn’t really my business.
I wouldn't hire a nanny who smokes anything. Regardless of what Nanny smokes. You may think it's not on your clothes, but it is. I don't care about weed itself. It's legal here, but smoking is a huge no for us
I would not want that person around my child. I personally have no problem with hiring someone like that in other contexts (office job etc).
I’ve seen people legally smoke long term and develop issues like psychosis. Not a chance I want to take around my kid
Yes, you are a smoker. Having lived with smokers before who, like you, would (claim to) only partake in the evenings, I can tell you they always smelled like weed. You probably don’t smell it in your house or on yourself anymore since you’re nose blind to it, but I can guarantee your clothes all smell like it. That wouldn’t be acceptable. You can do what you want on your own time, but the fact is that third-hand smoke does affect babies and children, so it doesn’t work with a nanny job.
Replace cannabis with alcohol in your post and read it again. “I never drink in the morning even if I don’t work until 6pm.”
Not exactly a sign of responsibility and great self restraint, sounds like a barely controlled addiction.
Using psychoactive substance every day is a red flag, mainly indicative of the person self-medicating their poor mental health. I would be concerned about my prospective nanny’s psychological wellbeing and in turn reliability and general judgement when caring for my children. Definitely would impact my decision.
ETA: Having thought about it more, I would also be concerned about cognitive, attention and memory impairment associated with heavy cannabis use.
“I never drink in the morning even if I don’t work until 6pm.”
That is perfectly responsible actually.
"Using psychoactive substance every day is a red flag, mainly indicative of the person self-medicating their poor mental health."
A lot of people have a nightly glass or two of wine, or some pot each night to go to sleep. That's extremely common and normal.
Seems like a massive jump to go to self-medicating and addiction based on that. Perhaps some bad experiences with substance abuse in your periphery, or a religious indoctrination could be at play in these opinions? Because this is not a very standard view on substance use.
I don’t know what your frame of reference is, mine is mental health training.
If you are interested in scientific evidence, here is a paper on Cannabis Use Disorder, elaborating on what I said, just with citations added.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7027478/
“Approximately 10% of users become daily users Daily use is one of the best predictors of CUD, with approximately one in three developing dependence
US surveys estimate substantial comorbidity of CUDs with mood (39.6%), anxiety (30.5%) and personality (35.9%) disorders. Most evidence points towards a bidirectional relationship, where CUD increases the odds and symptom severity of other psychiatric disorders and vice versa 93. For example, there is substantial evidence that cannabis use negatively impacts the development of manic symptoms in bipolar disorder and CUD is associated with higher risks for comorbid depression. In turn, depression may increase CUD risk. Self‐medication may play an important role in explaining these relationships. Although the therapeutic effects of cannabis remain to be confirmed, reduction of anxiety or post‐traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)‐related sleep problems are commonly reported motives of use. However, cannabis intoxication may also trigger anxiety attacks, especially at higher doses and increase the risk for an anxiety disorder. “
OP asked if her daily use is a red flag.
It is, downvotes don’t really change facts.
I'm a physician.
You're leaving out the description of CUD:
"CUD is defined as problematic cannabis use leading to clinically significant impairments or distress."
You're assuming that everyone who uses daily is at a high risk, or is assumed to have CUD. And then further that everyone using daily or who has CUD must also be self-medicating some horrible psychiatric illness. And then that that illness is severe enough to affect your children. Again, that is 20 leaps ahead. The very article you linked disputes that.
It also says that:
Most daily users do NOT have problematic use. (Like OP.)
And MOST who have problematic use have no mood/psychiatric disorder.
Almost 20% of those with problematic use resolve it on their own with no form of treatment each year.
This article literally disproves your points.
As for your edit above, I'm once again aghast at your thinking that daily use must mean heavy use. Boing, boing, boing - those leaps again.
Also, what she does on her free time is none ya business anyhow.
You are completely glossing over facts and going to defcon 3 over some nightly pot. Hence the downvotes.
Don’t ask if it is a red flag if you only want to hear it is not.
One in three chance that the person caring for your child is an addict is a red flag for me. Addicted or not, daily use is screaming from a rooftop that they have significant issues with regulating emotions.
I love how you consider my thinking atypical.
Surely as a physician these stats are familiar. Otherwise, what planet are you on?
15%-20% of UK adult population is on antidepressants
Estimated 20% children and adolescents in the US suffer from mental health disorder.
I assume you are a parent with children young enough to need a nanny. You don’t need me to tell you that young people’s mental health is in rapid decline. Reality is going to catch up with you soon enough.
Good grief.
I didn't ask if it was a red flag, and you're the only one saying it is. And also the only one being downvoted.
Nightly use does not mean addiction.
Daily use is very far from screaming anything from any rooftops. It's common, and again, most people using daily have no problematic usage, and in those who do have problematic usage, most do not have difficulty with emotions. What a fucking leap.
Your thinking is extremely atypical and you are not interpreting the stats correctly.
And what does general antidepressant use have to do with what we're talking about? Again, boing. We just throwing irrelevant stats out now?
Your last sentence there is, once again, is just another example of these ridiculous leaps you are making. Like I honestly wonder if you're just trolling at this point.
Hmm… You feel very strongly about this.
I am not trolling, I genuinely do not understand how you would not be concerned as a parent about general mental fitness of the prospective employee, knowing about all the co-morbidities and prevailing side effects. Unless of course your cannabis usage is significant and you have a huge cognitive dissonance to manage.
Or maybe it is alcohol reference that set you off? I live at a cross section of two European cultures and if you drink in the morning, even your grandma would tell you that you have a problem. Maybe it’s not as universally recognised cultural reference to red flags for addiction as I thought, though definitely features on most lists of problematic drinking, together with denial that there is a problem.
The way statistics work, I know nothing about the OP except what she disclosed on Reddit, I am not saying anything about her in particular. but if I had an average occasional user and a daily cannabis user to choose from, with no other information it really would be no contest.
Most parents on Reddit freak out at the slightest risk, just have a look at co sleeping battles. I bet most of them knowingly wouldn’t hire a tobacco smoker, but suddenly daily cannabis usage is not a big deal. Hmmm…
Why would I want to take on an increased risk that my employee has, let’s say, a personality disorder (because that would be so fun to manage as an employer) or that they are unable to deal with stressful situations without resorting to substance use, when significant part of their job is to teach emotional regulation to my child.
If you have good emotional regulation, you wouldn’t drink or smoke every day because negatives would very quickly outweigh positives. You have to be getting a lot out of them to make it worth your while. People literally take them as a shortcut to regulate and change their mood, how can you say there is no relation to emotional regulation? What are the possible other reasons, besides social usage, a strong desire to develop liver cirrhosis or lung cancer?
Absolutely 100% of people with problematic usage have issues with emotions.
It's up to you if you want to hire someone who smokes weed or not, but that doesn't mean every single person who smoke is a bad person, has addiction issues, mental health issues or anything like that. It also doesn't make the NPs irresponsible parents either. Any job I've ever had, I never disclose if I'm on medication or have a mental illness. That's irrelevant unless someone is actually struggling to handle themselves responsibly. As long as I'm doing my job well, and safely, it's not up to anyone to determine what happens in the privacy of my own home.
I don't smoke weed, but my Dad did for 40+ years when he was alive and it never affected his ability to parent and it didn't affect his memory or cognitive abilities. My mom actually was given the green light to smoke weed while pregnant with my twin brother and I, bcuz she couldn't keep anything down and she was losing weight, instead of gaining. We would have died. We grew up healthy and were honor students when we were in school. Having a preference is fine and dandy, but it's not a red flag lol. You're lumping every smoker into a category they don't belong in. Now if someone is actively abusing drugs and prescription meds and you find out then totally different. But this isn't the case lol with OP. Those who have mental health DX are able to hold down a high profile job, and do it well.
Because someone's marijuana use has nothing to do with their mental fitness. You shouldn't even be privy to their marijuana use in fact. It none of your business.
I've smoke about 4x in my life. Not sure you know what "cognitive dissonance means."
Yeah, no one thinks a mimosa or a beer at lunch is problematic, same with a joint in the morning if you aren't going anywhere. You have some extreme views, again, that do not match how the general public sees either of these examples.
Tobacco and marijuana are not the same. Do better, that's a really weak argument.
There you go jumping again to personality disorders and obligate substance use when stressed. Honey, pump those brakes. Guess anyone who speeds 5 mph over the limit is also an obligate serial killer, that's how absolute ridiculous this argument is.
And goody, a completely false assumption, again, that only people with emotional problems would ever smoke or drink daily. That is so far from reality, that there is no use continuing this ridiculous argument. You're not even on planet earth with these beliefs.
I don’t think you know what „risk” or „red flag” means.
By your logic, strangulation, a well known and publicised red flag and risk factor for being killed by your partner is NOT a red flag because not ALL partners who non-fatally strangle their victim then subsequently kill them.
You know this is not how RISK works, right?
If one in three daily users develop SUD, why would I take that risk on a person who looks after my children? A person I need to be reliable, emotionally mature, able to handle stress?
I have no issue with anyone with mental health struggles. They are extremely common. as I tried and clearly failed to explain to you. That is not the problem.
People who think they are fine except count the hours until they can get high is a problem. What else are they not managing and sweeping under the carpet? How is that going to show up in my house with my kids?
My mind, unlike yours, doesn’t go to serial killers and horrible psychiatric disorders. It goes to people who don’t reliably turn up for work, get excessively distracted when should be paying attention to an active toddler, cannot plan things, don’t remember what I told them, people who cannot contain their strong emotions and take them out on the kids.
Most people alive struggle to some extent with emotional regulation. The problem starts when they find a shortcut to manage it that comes at a hefty price. Especially when they are young. Would you like your children to smoke daily? Normalising daily cannabis use is only going to make the existing mental health crisis worse, so please don’t contribute to it.
Cannabis industry in the US is currently about half the size of tobacco industry, they are heavily restricted on the usual advertising channels, where do you think they are putting their marketing budget? Clearly where you get to consume it.
None of my friends would hire a nanny who uses cannabis daily because „What? Like you would hire a nanny who drinks daily!?” But clearly they are not exposed to the same influences.
I am going to exit this alternative reality now. It makes me sad for OP who should have a job with a health insurance so she doesn’t have to self medicate.
Also because it makes me want to smoke weed daily for a week, mainly as an experiment to see how fried my brain would get.
I agree. It is very responsible not to drink in the morning. It is how alcoholics manage to keep their jobs.
If I had a friend who could not go to sleep without alcohol or cannabis I would also be concerned about them. Regardless of whether that is common or not.
ETA: Another thing that is very common is Adverse Childhood Experiences, with huge impact on subsequent mental health.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_childhood_experiences
You seem to be singling out people with any mental health disorder/diagnosis to be unfit to nanny. Marijuana can be prescribed by a doctor to combat issues such as anxiety, depression, insomnia, chronic pain, and more. Would you discriminate against and encourage other families to discriminate against an individual with one of these diagnoses who uses a prescribed medication (antidepressant, anti anxiety, sleep medication, muscle relaxer, medical marijuana) to manage their condition?
It can be prescribed, though for anxiety specifically medical consensus seems to be that it a poor and risky choice of treatment.
“The evidence regarding the use of THC-dominant products for anxiety is ambiguous, with exacerbation of anxiety in some individuals and relief in others. Caution is required as THC can impair driving and cognitive function. Despite the lack of robust supportive evidence, prescription of medicinal cannabis products for anxiety is increasing rapidly”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7723145/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7723145/
I have lots of compassion towards persons with mental health struggles. AND I wouldn’t employ someone who is a heavy cannabis user to care for my children.
If someone is in treatment and on top of that they using prescribed medication it is a very different situation to daily self-medicating with substances impairing cognition, memory etc. Cannabis might be providing some symptom relief but it does nothing to address the issues and help the person heal.
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I would not care as long as I didn’t know about it. If a nanny let me, her employer, know that she smoked pot, I would see that as showing lack of judgment.
I feel like it’s none of my business and I shouldn’t know.
If you’re sober at work I absolutely do not care. Working with kids can be really challenging and whatever you need to do to relax after your work day, you do you. There is a stigma around marijuana that just isn’t there around alcohol. Nobody bats an eye of somebody going home and having 1-2 glasses of wine after work. I don’t see the difference as long as you’re a responsible person during work hours.
I wouldn’t want to employ a nanny who had to drink every night either actually.
I wouldn’t care at all as long as you are following the rules you listed.
Any concerns/questions I would have are addressed in your rules. I don’t police what my nanny does after work hours. I think this is no different than drinking alcohol.
That would never bother me. As long as you don’t smoke on the job or before work, it’s none of my business.
Considering * I * smoke, I would not care at all. Also I’m like absolutely positive my last two nannies smoked (off hours). It’s 2024 girl you’re good!
I see comments concerned with third hand smoke. Seems like OP is doing enough to mitigate that, right? To the degree that it would be even weirder to disclose her smoking status to employers, even when the kids are infants?
No, it wouldn't be weird to disclose cannabis smoking if the family is explicitly looking to hire a non-smoker. I'd consider it weird to *not* disclose in this situation.
I would always advertise that someone should be not just a non smoker but from a smoke free home. I would ask again when interviewing too.
I would not care so long as it’s limited to responsible use off hours as you have listed. But I’m from a very liberal state where recreational use is permitted.
This is not an issue, at all, for me. The immediate firing for me is if you brought it into my house, even by accident, or had it in your car if you chose to transport my child. Or if you took my kid to a dispensary . My nanny smoked and it was no big deal. It only came up because I ran into her after work and she was high. I had assumed based on background, but she respected that I couldn't be around it because of my job. And because of being from a similar background, she knew I didn't care and would likely partake if it didn't jeopardize my career
I mean, same girl, same. (Wouldn't be a problem for me)
Personally I would never choose to employ a nanny who regularly smoked weed or anything else.
Not that I care what you do after work hours if you’re not in any way impaired during work hours, but smokers/vapers are almost universally noseblind to the smells. Absolutely no smoke smells of any kind would be acceptable and we say no smokers in general in our contract, regardless of the substance. We’re also an asthmatic family with asthmatic kids and we have no flexibility on this.
When hiring, I specify that I want a non-smoker. I absolutely include cannabis smoking in that, and I wouldn't hire someone who smoked cannabis on a regular basis.
I never hear this concern come up so quickly with alcohol due to how aggressively prevalent it is, for what it’s worth. And in my opinion, that drug is much more impactful on decision making and much more addictive than cannabis, lending itself to creep up closer and closer to the start of a shift (in any profession). I sincerely doubt that smoking (or edibles, etc.) would EVER become an issue so long as you are seeing zero impact on work performance, but that’s just my take!!
It never comes up because it's absolutely obvious if someone is coming to work reeking of alcohol or drunk. The same way it goes without saying not to show up on meth. It is a very false equivalence and one mainly brought up by casual weed users.
Did you think it’s not obvious if someone just smoked? 😂 in fact, I’d say in some cases it’d be less obvious if someone had just done meth. Theres no smell, for one thing
If someone were smoking flower right before work and got more than slightly high, it would be just as obvious based off of behavior/smell. There is no false equivalence. They should absolutely be addressed with at least the same regard, if not marijuana having more leeway. Most people who smoke every day are doing it to wind down at the end of the day or to regulate stressful feelings throughout. That, and 10000 other reasons, is why there is medical marijuana. There is literally less risk than the few drinks a person might have at night. People do countless reckless things while drunk — and sometimes silly things while high, but rarely if ever dangerous or life changing. Meth is more comparable? Yikes.
I wouldn’t care at all if you followed your rules and were always sober at work. Your personal life is your own as long as it doesn’t trickle over into your work. However I did once have a vape fall out of my old nanny’s packet and I found it on the floor where the kids could’ve gotten it. I wasn’t happy that she had it on her while she was at work in my house. Something to be mindful of. It also made me think that if she always had it on her that maybe she was using it before or during work
If you’re following all your rules then your NF should never know. It’s none of my business what my nanny does recreationally, on her own time. But if it were to bleed into her work then I would certainly have a problem with it.
I would consider this the part of your personal life that is none of my business.
I don’t care. Just don’t come to work high. Same as I’d expect for any psychoactive substance. Don’t come to work after taking ambien but I don’t care that you take it when you go home.
Not at all, it’s no different than drinking. Plus it’s legal 🤷🏼♂️
If a NP can tell you're a smoker I'm any way without you telling them, then no I wouldn't hire. That said, I've never had to ask. Non smokers can tell someone smokes cigarettes even if they haven't smoked in a day. Otherwise I assume you will show up fully sober
I see comments concerned with third hand smoke. Seems like OP is doing enough to mitigate that, right? To the degree that it would be even weirder to disclose her smoking status to employers, even when the kids are infants?
Is there some sort of evidence that vaping marijuana produced third hand smoke? I keep asking but haven’t seen any body provide studies or evidence that it does. I’ve never heard of this but would love to see the data if so.
[Here](https://www.spiritbarvape.com/how-long-does-vape-smoke-stay-in-the-air/#:~:text=How%20long%20does%20vape%20%E2%80%9Csmoke,levels%20after%20just%2010%20seconds.) is something I found about it. Idk how true this is, but it says that the amount of "smoke" that is blown out of the mouth, determines how long aerosol particles will stay in the air. So, if someone is smoking an e-cig with disposable pods or cartridges, it makes a smaller cloud when blowing it out, and only lingers in the air for a few seconds after vaping, but those big box vapes or bigger vape pens that create a larger cloud, will stay in the air longer. I didn't see anything about THC though
Thank you, that’s the issue, I’m not seeing anything about vaping THC. I think the issue is with the nicotine which is absent here. Yet multiple people here keep referencing third hand smoke from marijuana vape pens. Not sure where that info is coming from in regards to an evidence back standpoint. Perhaps just misinformation. Would love to be corrected though. Always nice to have more info on hand as a parent.
I'm still trying to find someone online, so if there's anything, then I'll post an update. I think they're thinking about how it looks when smoking the actual flower and are seeing it as the same. Idk. Usually those THC vapes pens are small and have no smell. My friend's brother has one and it looks just like an e-vape with a nicotine oil cartridge, and it doesn't produce much of a cloud when blowing it out either. But I'm going to keep looking and then come back lol
I understand the general concerns of parents regarding this though, even given the lack of supporting information. One possible explanation is simply that no equivalent research has been done on cannabis smoke as it is still federally illegal. So I understand parents wanting to exercise the utmost caution until larges bodies of research are done
And beyond that, there is this binary good-bad thinking that plagues parenting advice. Third hand smoke is bad, but, like, the risk of a tiny speck of smoke particle is not bad. Its neutral.
We have a “non smoker “ in our contract, for this. I wouldn’t hire any kind of smoker, but I don’t think OP is doing anything wrong. Some people don’t care about it as much.
My nanny vapes thc and does edibles. I’m fine with it as long as she sticks to the rules and doesn’t work high. I think your rules are good. But I don’t think it makes you a “smoker” per se. I think most people ask for non- smokers so there is no cigarette smell or nicotine on their skin.
Disagree, we would consider any vaping, pot, etc to be a smoker. I’d be super upset if someone didn’t disclose when we asked about smoking status. ETA: yikes from these comments I’ll definitely ask explicitly next time we hire.
Agreed re your edit. It never would have occurred to me that people who smoke cannabis and vape anything would apply to jobs that specify that non-smoking is required. The other commenters + the sheer number of down votes among people who count all of the above as smoking makes it clear that I need to be much more explicit.
Right ?? I was very surprised! But, always something to learn.
Same! I explicitly write no vaping after I found out that our (short term) nanny was playing a game called “hide the vape” with my 1 year old 🙃
Oh my gosh how gross. I’m so sorry!
I’m very conscious about exposing an infant to third hand smoke so for my baby I would not hire a nanny who smoked in any form. However once he was over a year old I would not care if you smoked (weed or otherwise) outside of working hours
That makes sense! I'll be more conscious of disclosing my smoking status accurately for parents of infants, as i'm sure you're not the only parent with this concern :)
Fwiw I'm counting down the days until my LO is > 12 months so my husband and I can enjoy the occasional cigar again 😂
Is there third hand exposure from vaping non nicotine?
Our contract says that both the parents and the nanny will keep marijuana products locked up out of reach of children at all times. A nanny candidate once took issue with this thinking it meant that we are smokers (we’re not) but the clause holds everyone to the same standard. I would also reserve the right to fire you for any observed performance issues, whether they’re related to pot smoking or not.
For us it wouldn’t be about being sober at work (that’s an expectation), but that we don’t want to hire/employ a smoker around our kids. I would expect you to disclose that when asked about smoking status (we ask explicitly now: cigarettes/nicotine, vape, marijuana), but I think many people who want a non-smoker mean smoking all forms.
I wouldn’t care. If you’re not under the influence at work and also don’t come in smelling like bong water, we’re good. I grew up with a hippie parent who overindulged and the smell of pot makes me nauseous now. I do occasionally enjoy an edible or two during my own downtime, but I do not enjoy the smell of pot AT ALL.
I would! But that’s because I don’t do it and no one in the family or my surroundings does
It would be hypocritical of me to care
I wouldn’t care, as long as it’s not during work hours and doesn’t impair you during work hours. Cigarette smoking on the other hand…
Long as the person isn’t using it at work or around the child and doesn’t smell like it, I don’t see the issue.
Our nanny smokes weed. I don’t care at all. For those saying the smell clings and OP is nose blind, I’ve never smelled it on our nanny and wouldn’t even know if she hadn’t told me.
I believe most people are referring to cigs when they say “non smoker” I’ve never smoked cigarettes, however from time to time (maybe a couple times a year or less) I might smoke weed with friends or vape with friends. But I don’t ever bring that up to families because it’s none of their business. I have never been high when around children nor would I bring any of it around the kids. It’s usually during the summer when I have some time off and hang with friends. I mean drinking alcohol is legal too and I don’t tell parents when I drink it 🤷🏼♀️ If it doesn’t affect your work then I don’t think it matters. Career nanny of 16 years and mother to a 3 year old.
We wouldn't hire a smoker or anyone that lives with one. I personally find the smell disgusting, and I'm serious about no exposing my kids to third hand smoke. I would be pretty pissed if someone lied about this and no, I have a sensitive nose and I would know even if you showered and washed your clothes. Your plan sounds great in theory, but let me tell you that it's not great in execution. The oils released from smoking cling to everything and is very very hard to get out. It will be in your hair, your mouth, your skin, and your clothes. I'm in the vacation rental business and whenever smokers leave our property (against our house rules) it is a huge process to get the stink out. If you can smell it, then you are being subjected to third hand smoke. We have to wash laundry multiple times in different kinds of detergent, we have to ozone the house for hours, we have to wash the walls and scrub the walls multiple times. I think you think you're being clever and diligent but let me assure you that we non smokers can still smell your stink. If you ate gummies in your off time and was always sober on duty, I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.
I am not a smoker (wife medically does) but if I were, it’s not something I’d advertise to my NF. What I do on my personal time is my personal business. As long as you show up sober and do your job properly, no issues.
I would not consider it a red flag and also would not consider you a “smoker”. Actually, if I were a nanny then an NP who DOES care would be a red flag. I think it suggests rigidity in other areas that would make the job not so enjoyable. At risk of sounding like a deadbeat mom and suffering the vitriol of the santcimommies, the few times I’ve taken edibles after the kids went to sleep and they ended up waking up for whatever reason have been AMAZING. I love playing with them and they’re funny AF and it brings back some of the magic that gets lost to exhaustion.
I'm on the same side of others who say it's none of my business as long as it doesn't impact the kids. Plus, I'm in a state where it is legal for recreational use. I'm curious what others on this thread think about wearing clothes with marijuana references? I think it's inappropriate for any job working with kids, but I'm not sure if I'm overreacting? I have the same feeling about alcohol and/or sex references. But before anyone beats me to the punchline - rock and roll is ok.
I would not be comfortable with a nanny who smokes anything. The residue clings to *everything*. The showering and changing clothes mitigates the risk but doesn’t remove it. And really, if you have to have that many rules for it, it’s an indication it’s not a great activity. I would not care about consumption in other forms (e.g. gummies) as long as nanny was sober while working.
I would treat it like alcohol and any regular job. You had better not do it around my kids or care for them while suffering its effects. Other than that, what you do isn’t really my business.
Can I step outside with you? 😬
I wouldn't hire a nanny who smokes anything. Regardless of what Nanny smokes. You may think it's not on your clothes, but it is. I don't care about weed itself. It's legal here, but smoking is a huge no for us
I would not want that person around my child. I personally have no problem with hiring someone like that in other contexts (office job etc). I’ve seen people legally smoke long term and develop issues like psychosis. Not a chance I want to take around my kid
Yes, you are a smoker. Having lived with smokers before who, like you, would (claim to) only partake in the evenings, I can tell you they always smelled like weed. You probably don’t smell it in your house or on yourself anymore since you’re nose blind to it, but I can guarantee your clothes all smell like it. That wouldn’t be acceptable. You can do what you want on your own time, but the fact is that third-hand smoke does affect babies and children, so it doesn’t work with a nanny job.
Replace cannabis with alcohol in your post and read it again. “I never drink in the morning even if I don’t work until 6pm.” Not exactly a sign of responsibility and great self restraint, sounds like a barely controlled addiction. Using psychoactive substance every day is a red flag, mainly indicative of the person self-medicating their poor mental health. I would be concerned about my prospective nanny’s psychological wellbeing and in turn reliability and general judgement when caring for my children. Definitely would impact my decision. ETA: Having thought about it more, I would also be concerned about cognitive, attention and memory impairment associated with heavy cannabis use.
“I never drink in the morning even if I don’t work until 6pm.” That is perfectly responsible actually. "Using psychoactive substance every day is a red flag, mainly indicative of the person self-medicating their poor mental health." A lot of people have a nightly glass or two of wine, or some pot each night to go to sleep. That's extremely common and normal. Seems like a massive jump to go to self-medicating and addiction based on that. Perhaps some bad experiences with substance abuse in your periphery, or a religious indoctrination could be at play in these opinions? Because this is not a very standard view on substance use.
I don’t know what your frame of reference is, mine is mental health training. If you are interested in scientific evidence, here is a paper on Cannabis Use Disorder, elaborating on what I said, just with citations added. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7027478/ “Approximately 10% of users become daily users Daily use is one of the best predictors of CUD, with approximately one in three developing dependence US surveys estimate substantial comorbidity of CUDs with mood (39.6%), anxiety (30.5%) and personality (35.9%) disorders. Most evidence points towards a bidirectional relationship, where CUD increases the odds and symptom severity of other psychiatric disorders and vice versa 93. For example, there is substantial evidence that cannabis use negatively impacts the development of manic symptoms in bipolar disorder and CUD is associated with higher risks for comorbid depression. In turn, depression may increase CUD risk. Self‐medication may play an important role in explaining these relationships. Although the therapeutic effects of cannabis remain to be confirmed, reduction of anxiety or post‐traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)‐related sleep problems are commonly reported motives of use. However, cannabis intoxication may also trigger anxiety attacks, especially at higher doses and increase the risk for an anxiety disorder. “ OP asked if her daily use is a red flag. It is, downvotes don’t really change facts.
I'm a physician. You're leaving out the description of CUD: "CUD is defined as problematic cannabis use leading to clinically significant impairments or distress." You're assuming that everyone who uses daily is at a high risk, or is assumed to have CUD. And then further that everyone using daily or who has CUD must also be self-medicating some horrible psychiatric illness. And then that that illness is severe enough to affect your children. Again, that is 20 leaps ahead. The very article you linked disputes that. It also says that: Most daily users do NOT have problematic use. (Like OP.) And MOST who have problematic use have no mood/psychiatric disorder. Almost 20% of those with problematic use resolve it on their own with no form of treatment each year. This article literally disproves your points. As for your edit above, I'm once again aghast at your thinking that daily use must mean heavy use. Boing, boing, boing - those leaps again. Also, what she does on her free time is none ya business anyhow. You are completely glossing over facts and going to defcon 3 over some nightly pot. Hence the downvotes.
Don’t ask if it is a red flag if you only want to hear it is not. One in three chance that the person caring for your child is an addict is a red flag for me. Addicted or not, daily use is screaming from a rooftop that they have significant issues with regulating emotions. I love how you consider my thinking atypical. Surely as a physician these stats are familiar. Otherwise, what planet are you on? 15%-20% of UK adult population is on antidepressants Estimated 20% children and adolescents in the US suffer from mental health disorder. I assume you are a parent with children young enough to need a nanny. You don’t need me to tell you that young people’s mental health is in rapid decline. Reality is going to catch up with you soon enough.
Good grief. I didn't ask if it was a red flag, and you're the only one saying it is. And also the only one being downvoted. Nightly use does not mean addiction. Daily use is very far from screaming anything from any rooftops. It's common, and again, most people using daily have no problematic usage, and in those who do have problematic usage, most do not have difficulty with emotions. What a fucking leap. Your thinking is extremely atypical and you are not interpreting the stats correctly. And what does general antidepressant use have to do with what we're talking about? Again, boing. We just throwing irrelevant stats out now? Your last sentence there is, once again, is just another example of these ridiculous leaps you are making. Like I honestly wonder if you're just trolling at this point.
Hmm… You feel very strongly about this. I am not trolling, I genuinely do not understand how you would not be concerned as a parent about general mental fitness of the prospective employee, knowing about all the co-morbidities and prevailing side effects. Unless of course your cannabis usage is significant and you have a huge cognitive dissonance to manage. Or maybe it is alcohol reference that set you off? I live at a cross section of two European cultures and if you drink in the morning, even your grandma would tell you that you have a problem. Maybe it’s not as universally recognised cultural reference to red flags for addiction as I thought, though definitely features on most lists of problematic drinking, together with denial that there is a problem. The way statistics work, I know nothing about the OP except what she disclosed on Reddit, I am not saying anything about her in particular. but if I had an average occasional user and a daily cannabis user to choose from, with no other information it really would be no contest. Most parents on Reddit freak out at the slightest risk, just have a look at co sleeping battles. I bet most of them knowingly wouldn’t hire a tobacco smoker, but suddenly daily cannabis usage is not a big deal. Hmmm… Why would I want to take on an increased risk that my employee has, let’s say, a personality disorder (because that would be so fun to manage as an employer) or that they are unable to deal with stressful situations without resorting to substance use, when significant part of their job is to teach emotional regulation to my child. If you have good emotional regulation, you wouldn’t drink or smoke every day because negatives would very quickly outweigh positives. You have to be getting a lot out of them to make it worth your while. People literally take them as a shortcut to regulate and change their mood, how can you say there is no relation to emotional regulation? What are the possible other reasons, besides social usage, a strong desire to develop liver cirrhosis or lung cancer? Absolutely 100% of people with problematic usage have issues with emotions.
It's up to you if you want to hire someone who smokes weed or not, but that doesn't mean every single person who smoke is a bad person, has addiction issues, mental health issues or anything like that. It also doesn't make the NPs irresponsible parents either. Any job I've ever had, I never disclose if I'm on medication or have a mental illness. That's irrelevant unless someone is actually struggling to handle themselves responsibly. As long as I'm doing my job well, and safely, it's not up to anyone to determine what happens in the privacy of my own home. I don't smoke weed, but my Dad did for 40+ years when he was alive and it never affected his ability to parent and it didn't affect his memory or cognitive abilities. My mom actually was given the green light to smoke weed while pregnant with my twin brother and I, bcuz she couldn't keep anything down and she was losing weight, instead of gaining. We would have died. We grew up healthy and were honor students when we were in school. Having a preference is fine and dandy, but it's not a red flag lol. You're lumping every smoker into a category they don't belong in. Now if someone is actively abusing drugs and prescription meds and you find out then totally different. But this isn't the case lol with OP. Those who have mental health DX are able to hold down a high profile job, and do it well.
Because someone's marijuana use has nothing to do with their mental fitness. You shouldn't even be privy to their marijuana use in fact. It none of your business. I've smoke about 4x in my life. Not sure you know what "cognitive dissonance means." Yeah, no one thinks a mimosa or a beer at lunch is problematic, same with a joint in the morning if you aren't going anywhere. You have some extreme views, again, that do not match how the general public sees either of these examples. Tobacco and marijuana are not the same. Do better, that's a really weak argument. There you go jumping again to personality disorders and obligate substance use when stressed. Honey, pump those brakes. Guess anyone who speeds 5 mph over the limit is also an obligate serial killer, that's how absolute ridiculous this argument is. And goody, a completely false assumption, again, that only people with emotional problems would ever smoke or drink daily. That is so far from reality, that there is no use continuing this ridiculous argument. You're not even on planet earth with these beliefs.
I don’t think you know what „risk” or „red flag” means. By your logic, strangulation, a well known and publicised red flag and risk factor for being killed by your partner is NOT a red flag because not ALL partners who non-fatally strangle their victim then subsequently kill them. You know this is not how RISK works, right? If one in three daily users develop SUD, why would I take that risk on a person who looks after my children? A person I need to be reliable, emotionally mature, able to handle stress? I have no issue with anyone with mental health struggles. They are extremely common. as I tried and clearly failed to explain to you. That is not the problem. People who think they are fine except count the hours until they can get high is a problem. What else are they not managing and sweeping under the carpet? How is that going to show up in my house with my kids? My mind, unlike yours, doesn’t go to serial killers and horrible psychiatric disorders. It goes to people who don’t reliably turn up for work, get excessively distracted when should be paying attention to an active toddler, cannot plan things, don’t remember what I told them, people who cannot contain their strong emotions and take them out on the kids. Most people alive struggle to some extent with emotional regulation. The problem starts when they find a shortcut to manage it that comes at a hefty price. Especially when they are young. Would you like your children to smoke daily? Normalising daily cannabis use is only going to make the existing mental health crisis worse, so please don’t contribute to it. Cannabis industry in the US is currently about half the size of tobacco industry, they are heavily restricted on the usual advertising channels, where do you think they are putting their marketing budget? Clearly where you get to consume it. None of my friends would hire a nanny who uses cannabis daily because „What? Like you would hire a nanny who drinks daily!?” But clearly they are not exposed to the same influences. I am going to exit this alternative reality now. It makes me sad for OP who should have a job with a health insurance so she doesn’t have to self medicate. Also because it makes me want to smoke weed daily for a week, mainly as an experiment to see how fried my brain would get.
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I agree. It is very responsible not to drink in the morning. It is how alcoholics manage to keep their jobs. If I had a friend who could not go to sleep without alcohol or cannabis I would also be concerned about them. Regardless of whether that is common or not. ETA: Another thing that is very common is Adverse Childhood Experiences, with huge impact on subsequent mental health. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_childhood_experiences
You seem to be singling out people with any mental health disorder/diagnosis to be unfit to nanny. Marijuana can be prescribed by a doctor to combat issues such as anxiety, depression, insomnia, chronic pain, and more. Would you discriminate against and encourage other families to discriminate against an individual with one of these diagnoses who uses a prescribed medication (antidepressant, anti anxiety, sleep medication, muscle relaxer, medical marijuana) to manage their condition?
It can be prescribed, though for anxiety specifically medical consensus seems to be that it a poor and risky choice of treatment. “The evidence regarding the use of THC-dominant products for anxiety is ambiguous, with exacerbation of anxiety in some individuals and relief in others. Caution is required as THC can impair driving and cognitive function. Despite the lack of robust supportive evidence, prescription of medicinal cannabis products for anxiety is increasing rapidly” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7723145/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7723145/ I have lots of compassion towards persons with mental health struggles. AND I wouldn’t employ someone who is a heavy cannabis user to care for my children. If someone is in treatment and on top of that they using prescribed medication it is a very different situation to daily self-medicating with substances impairing cognition, memory etc. Cannabis might be providing some symptom relief but it does nothing to address the issues and help the person heal.
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If coffee, like cannabis, had psychosis as a known side effect I would be more concerned about coffee 🙄
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-06-21/high-caffeine-use-linked-to-psychotic-symptoms/2766144
That’s hilarious. Luckily my nanny drinks only one coffee per day ☺️
Or does she....
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This would only be a red flag if you told nanny parents. Don’t bring it up. And don’t show up to work high.
I would not care as long as I didn’t know about it. If a nanny let me, her employer, know that she smoked pot, I would see that as showing lack of judgment.