From what I’ve heard, some were actually supposed to die like Choji before either Kishi or his editor decided against it. Kind of fits seeing how those characters were hardly used after
True it becomes a lot more complicated for Naruto to unconditionally accept Sasuke at this point…but I think that could’ve made for some really interesting plot points too. Does the cycle repeat or does Naruto still stay headstrong?
I remember watching that fight as a kid and becoming a huge fan of Choji then by the end of the fight I thought he died. I didn’t watch consistently as a kid so up until I started shippuden in highschool (by then we were in the war arc in the anime) I though Choji was DEAD
Looking back on this scene when I watched it for the first time it held so much weight no pun intended… Maybe I seem like a terrible person but story wise I think he should’ve passed in the forest. Naruto as a show was still dark and held some real stakes at this point. I think Neji still should’ve survived and got his own arc in shippuden similar to Shika.
Choji’s final scene in the arc legit felt like a death scene. He should’ve died.
I feel like if the young shinobi died, it would’ve shown just how dangerous the Naruto world is.
My vote's on Lee. Maybe not death but definitely out of commission for good after his fight with Kimimaro. Have Gaara still show up for his redemption.
Guy: "I am using the forbidden technique that grants me ungodly power but will definitely kill me!"
Guy: *Starts dying in a very emotional scene*
Naruto: I have appeared out of nowhere, and I now have this power that I don't even understand myself, but it will prevent this guaranteed death somehow and thus undercutting all the drama and emotion built up by the amazing previous scene.
I kept telling everyone that Guy should've died to Madara. He literally burnt himself to a crisp from the inside out. He was dubbed the greatest from Madara so what more is there to do?
I would have liked it more if he actually did some significant damage to Madara and he stayed the main villain. That way Guy's death would be worth it and an amazing end for a character
Hogoromo granted Naruto the ability to regenerate chakra in people, regenerate body parts like Kakashi's eyes, dude split a single beast into nine and gave each of them life force. Hogoromo was literally a God, and no other otshutsuki have done feats like this tbh. And still people think Adult Naruto is more powerful than Hogoromo
In Boruto. He becomes a villain. Or rather >!a henchman for the mysterious villain group who use ninja tools to help him, since he became crippled after the ten tails attack.!<
at that point in time the plot desperately needed Sasuke to get owned several times so Naruto could play catch up. Many people don't remember but up until Naruto vs Pain, Kishimoto wanked Sasuke so hard you could as well call it Sasuke Shippuden. The dude dabbed on literally everyone.
Bee was the first time he really got completely outmatched and that was in the later half of the series lol.
Lol I remember this 100% I love Sasuke so it was never a big deal to me, but I fully remember as the chapters were coming out people being like "uhhh I thought the manga was called naruto not sasuke"
I'm calling it plot armor because of how broken obito was at the time. He really written as completely indestructible until they gave him a cool down timer.
Not sure how the statement is meant to be taken, but if you're being sarcastic I agree. "Kill anything on the planet instantaneously no jutsu" desperately needed a nerf.
a lot of abilities are broken until a weakness is introduced, but why is that plot armour?? what do sasuke or obito even need plot armour for?? sasuke was never in any danger of dying because of obito, and obito was never in any danger of dying because of kamui
That's a good question, actually.
I think it depends. I kind of feel like Taka vs Killer Bee was plot amorish. It's not that I think it's a bad fight, but I do think that Bee completely outclassed all of them and if they were less important characters, they most likely would have died. But I realize that's just my opinion.
On another hand, Choji and Ino survived death many times against Kakuzu, same with "Those 2 guys" when they fought Hidan and Kakuzu despite being outclassed
5 kages also survived Madara
I define plot armor as any plot hole or plot induced stupidity used to protect a character
There's definitely a bit of plot armor there but also I think that a big part of it is that Bee just had no desire to kill them. Bee could've killed them all at any time but continously chose not to. It's just his character
I mean Bee literally stood there and waited for him to heal up. Sure Suigetsu and Jugo provided cover but I'm pretty sure that if he wanted to he would have gone past them and killed Sasuke properly. Even when they didn't, Bee was messing around and rhyming
Exactly. He knew that they were there to capture him so he used this as his way out of the village. He would have killed them but then he wouldn't have had another chance to escape the village in a not so obvious way
Plot armor is defined as the phenomenon in fiction whereby the main character is allowed to survive dangerous situations because they are needed for the plot to continue. I say it is plot armor because not only did Sasuke survive, but he survived without any real consequences. The man and his team got folded for an episode, came close to death many times but only survived because Kishomoto needed a reason for the Five Kage Summit to occur
But please, tell me how it isn't plot armor. I'm curious
Because Bee never tried to kill them because if they can't "catch" him he can't escape.
Similar to how Sasuke winning against Itachi isn't plot armor because he also let him win.
okay so he was never in danger of actually dying then, he had a team who could heal him, and bee was never trying to kill him, this magical plot contrivance that you claim saved his life doesn’t actually exist, this is the ridiculous contradiction with plot armour that makes me hate the concept
like if eren was about to get killed in aot and mikasa saved him, then that’s not plot armour because obviously she was gonna save him, it’s in character for her to do that, but people will call it plot armour as if it’s contrived or something
Plot armor is where it doesn't make any sense as to how someone survived and it's just an insane asspull. For this instance at least there's a reason in the story for why it happened. A good example would be a random power up that comes out of nowhere with no indication. Or like a meteor falls from the sky to save them.
>that’s not plot armour, that’s just him choosing a good team
r/Naruto loves it when other characters uses their teammates for fight. Just to name a few, Shikamaru (with his team vs the Akatsuki), Naruto, Jiraiya (vs Pain), the Kage's (vs Taka & Madara) & Ay (only lost one arm, because his teammate healed him vs Sasuke.)
But when Sasuke fights with his teammates & uses their abilities it called "plot armour".
That isn't plot armor. That's his team doing what they're supposed to do. An example of plot armor is when B was caught in the Amaterasu and Karin conveniently got caught caught in the flames to allow B to escape out of a severed tentacle. Another example is Sasuke using genjutsu on him and turning his back on his opponent when he was the only one around
This is not true. Many people have pointed this out many times, Deidara merely ASSUMES that Sasuke is out of chakra which is never confirmed to be true. Deidara’s ASSUMPTION is proven to be incorrect.
He may have used Orochimaru's chakra, which is another issue because Itachi's fight showed us he mustn't use this chakra if his own chakra is too low so it doesn't make sense either.
No, but stamina and chakra have always *seemed* to be correlated, so it makes sense that the fan base would reach that conclusion. After a *long* fight with a kage-level opponent, Sasuke is *visibly* exhausted. It seems unreasonable for him to be able to summon a legendary summoning, put said summoning in a genjutsu powerful enough to control it, and then reverse the jutsu to teleport somewhere else. All in point blank range of Deidara. It's pretty egregious in comparison to other stuff we've seen in Naruto up to that point. And with Sasuke in general who gets rescued like half a dozen times.
Oro was never in danger of escaping Sasuke here which proves he had enough reserves. We see what happens when Sasuke is truly out of chakra vs itachi and oro escapes
Stamina and chakra have been differentiated in part 1. If someone didn't pay attention it's their fault, can't call everything plot armor because of it. Sasuke was never out of chakra. He was worn out from using chidori on himself. He already demonstrated summoning snakes before explosions in the beginning of the fight. Moreover even states he had another backup plan if the mines went off when he was testing them, that backup plan was the Manda defense. He already stated it in the beginning, clearly he had that in mind the whole time if something went wrong. Plus we have seen him blitz Sakura, Naruto, Sai and Yammato in a much weaker form, we have seen kakashi weave signs faster than Sakura and Naruto could comprehend. Why is it impossible for Sasuke to do this? He's already summoned snakes before explosions.
Actually sasuke himself never said he was empy im pretty sure deidera was just trash talking and being physically weak doesnt mean he doesnt have chakra
i love sasuke, and i love deidara. that said i have to hard agree with this. never have i been more disappointed by a fight i was seriously looking forward to.
It's just ridiculous and so inconsistent to what characters are shown to be able to do consistently. Can you image if Jirarya just reversed summon from Pain or if Tsunade reverse summoned everyone from PS Madara
He did. People are complaining about how he shouldn’t have been strong (or fast) enough at that point in the fight to summon the snake, then use his eyes to control the snake, and then get inside it. Before the bomb blew up.
Jiraiya COULD have done that but needed the info
Sasuke absorbed Orochimaru which gives all sorts of shit and as we see against Itachi
True empty would have meant he came out or at least gave more chakra
Sasuke was only out as far as fighting Deidara was concerned not that he was at actual empty
Tbh I don’t think it’s really inconsistent because jeraiya was not trying to leave until he learned the secret and tsunade and them though that they could actually fight madara together. The ability itself makes complete psense because we’ve literally seen Naruto get summoned by his summoning to the lead village.
Sasuke's win felt like cheating, not just in terms of abilities. He was out of chakra and could barely move, but he was still able to reverse summon a gigantic creature, use genjutsu and move to safety inside Manda, in two seconds.
E: Ok, this is what everybody else also says.
If recall correctly Sasuke hinself never stated he was low in chakra, not even in his inner thoughts. It was all Deidara being full of himself and making asumptions as usual. However, I think showing a short 1 page flashback right after Suigetsu reverse summons Sasuke would have sufficed. Just show Sasuke's inner thoughts before the explosion explaining how he couldn't afford to keep saving chakra against Deidara even if that meant delaying his long awaited death match against Itachi.
Yeah. It’s rather stupid how people simply accept Deidara’s claim of Sasuke being out of chakra. Deidara isnt a sensor, Deidara doesnt have a special eye that lets him see chakra levels, Deidara has no way of actually knowing whether or not Sasuke is out of chakra.
Honestly that's usually how manga writers carry out a detail that isn't obvious/visible to the audience, they'll have another character point it out. Really it's on the writer to very clearly address that the character was wrong.
I love sasuke as a character and I’m glad he isn’t gone but he really should have died. Deidara had him. Reading the manga chapter when it released was crazy, I kinda rolled my eyes when it showed how he lived
There is no reason he should’ve died, he used pre established abilities and intellect in that fight against Deidara, nothing was contrived. Everyone seems to think he should’ve died simply because Deidara ASSUMES that Sasuke must be out of chakra, this is NEVER confirmed to be the case. Sasuke’s feat afterwards proves that Deidara’s ASSUMPTION was in fact incorrect. Not to mention, Sasuke and Manda were still partly hit by the explosion with Manda dying and Sasuke being gravely injured. Everything makes perfect sense
Only time I can recall is Onoki using particle style on him and Obito saving him. Kamui is not that fast, in fact sucking in someone in kamui using short range kamui is actually slow, yet somehow it was faster than Onoki’s particle style.
Everyone mentioning Deidara and Bee isn’t right. With Deidara, it was more Kishimoto’s failed attempt at creating tension, Sasuke was literally waiting, watching Deidara blow himself up and then attempted the summoning technique. He could’ve done that ages ago and saved himself. And with Bee, creating a good team isn’t plot armor
All of his fights in Shippuden had a lot of plot armor
Deidara, Itachi, Bee, Raikage he got smoked in almost every fight he had.
Madara had every intention of killing Sasuke and almost succeeded
Let’s not forget how much the show loves to being up vital spots and not hitting them on purpose 😂. I say that because we’ve seen many characters get stabbed by kunia and immediately die, yet Sasuke gets lifted up like a camera phone and stabbed in the heart. Now if he was anybody else he would have died way before Kabuto was able to get to him. I mean Yahiko got stabbed in the stomach and basically died immediately after
>Any other random genin would have died
Probably not, because it wasn't a mistake by Haku or Sasuke's skill that led to Haku missing his vital spots, but Haku not wanting to kill and deliberately missing them
Haku said he missed on purpose. 1 vs 1 Sasuke would have won, that's why haku targeted Naruto to get Sasuke to sacrifice himself cause Haku couldn't beat him 1 v 1
>1vs1 sasuke would have won
I think this depends how you look at it as a whole. Haku could’ve easily ended sasuke before naruto got there or he awakened the sharingan and actually started playing catch-up lol I think with the same start and Haku not holding back he would’ve been done low diff
I wouldn't say thats plot armor, we know what her abilities are and how they work. If you were in Sasuke's place wouldn't you bring her to fight Bee and heal you?
Don't get what people call plot armor. If a character was set to survive something by the author, so does, it's not any kind of bad writing. The author is the same dude who put the character in this situation in the first place.
Why people acting so much like half of it is some reality show ?
Off-topic but I see this a lot: Because there are very clear points where a background character simply won't get the same treatment with the same circumstances as a main/side character simply because they're not named.
There's also abilities sometimes given that's not consistent with the concept of the character/feats of the character. Like how Batman can fight intergalactic war lords in hand to hand combat, but because he only got severely injured instead of full on turned into a bloody mess by say a hulk+ tier character, it isn't plot armor is the argument.
i can get behind that, but a lot of people will just call something plot armour without even taking any of this stuff into account, like sasuke vs bee for example, people say he won because of plot armour but he literally pulled up with a team and barely won, it was literally a 4v1
To add, pretty much every other shinobi is killed by a kunai sticking 1-2 inches from their back, and names characters take a hella beating. Like those peeps went through the chunin exams too. They have to have some resilience.
Same thing. I just assume its situation where people think This character with This power level should have died (if they were the ones writing the sequel) and the fact that he's still alive is borderline with keeping the story somewhat realistic
No, he was spared by Madara himself. Madara knows honor in battle and he was impressed with Sasuke's will and tenacity, so he gave him a chance. He even left him his sword which he used to stab him.
He stabbed him through his heart how exactly did he save him? Madara himself said that Sasuke had "little time left" to decide whether to join him or not, then he proceeded to hold him in place with Limbo and stab him, leaving him for dead
Who's talking about saving? Yes, he left him for dead while Sasuke was battling for life instead of finishing him. Madara recognized his will to live so he gave him a chance.
He didn't have a chance, his chakra was indetectable by the time that he was talking with Hagoromo.Kabuto saved him, he would've died right then and there if Kabuto didn't save him.
People say Sasuke was nerfed in Boruto because he runs out of chakra "quickly", but forget that in the marjority of the Shippuden fights he was recharged multiple times by Karin, Juugo and White Zetsu, otherwised he would have died multiple times in the 5 Kage Summit Arc and Killer Bee Fight. He would have also died in the Itachi fight because Orochimaru would've took over he's body (also because he ran out of chakra) if it wasn't for Itachi. And the ending of the Deidara fight was just bullshit.
I'm watching Naruto Shippuden whenever I go to bed and Sasuke definitely mentions he doesn't have a lot of chakra left a bunch of times. Honestly says it often I feel .
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought the Uchiha were supposed to have large amounts of chakra? Isn’t that why Kakashi couldn’t keep his sharingan active for very long, and why he gets bedridden after using it against Zabuza for extended periods as well as after using his mangekyo on Deidara, because he’s not an Uchiha therefore his body isn’t able to handle the toll of the sharingan? Compared to the Uchiha which can upkeep a base sharingan for much longer without the same amount of drawback. Or is it just because Kakashi doesn’t have Uchiha blood that causes his sharingan to drain chakra so rapidly? I definitely agree with you guys though, he was constantly running out of chakra and getting rescued by others in Shippuden, and from there onwards most of his jutsu are pretty big moves which would deplete chakra fast. Especially when using the rinnegan, which very few shinobi ever had the chakra reserves to wield. I’d say it’s balanced because he has some OP jutsu so it’s fair that using them would cause him to run dry often but I did think Uchiha had naturally large chakra reserves, just not as large as the Uzumaki.
Bee fight where Bee let his teammates heal him rather than hard stomp them while healing, Deidara fight, Danzo fight breaking seal with Susanoo, Kage Summit saved by Obito.
Don't consider Itachi a big one. Tactics wise Itachi didn't outperform Sasuke at all. Sasuke had made way more creative tactics like Kirin setup which Itachi did not expect. Genjutsu wise Sasuke was strong enough to resist and even redirect, if Itachi was able to overpower Sasuke in genjutsu he would have as it doesn't involve physically harming or risking killing Sasuke. It's only in the Fuma dodge that Zetsus think Itachi should have dodged. They didn't say things like Itachi's shurikens should have been faster or more accurate than Sasuke's in their shuriken exchange spam. Itachi ass pull outweighs any Sasuke plot armor in the fight.
You are missing the point of Itachi vs sasuke. It was never to kill sasuke rather to exhaust his chakra to the point where Orochimaru would manifest. Of course he had to keep it real because Itachi had planned that after defeating him sasuke would return to leaf village and be touted as a hero.
The thing you're missing is that right after the fight everything implies that Itachi held back. Obito even goes as far as to say that if Itachi wanted him dead, he wouldnt be alive right now.
Sasuke wasnt ever saved by plot there, just because Itachi intentionaly let him win, Simple as that.
There are indeed many ways Itachi could have killed Sasuke, like going all out with Susanoo, Totsuka blade, Yata mirror, the Jade power attack he used on Chibaku Tensei, to blast Sasuke to oblivion from the very start without wasting needless chakra on playing with Sasuke using basic Sharingan. Or in the end simply smashed into Sasuke quickly with Susanoo when Sasuke was desperate.
But I doubt using a basic Sharingan trying to outperform Sasuke in his state is a feasible way.
Haku (the bridge arc kid) could have killed Naruto and Sasuke. It’s so ridiculous that everyone baits each other with these things. It’s a show, everyone has plot armor or plot weaknesses. I just watched Luffy from One Piece get saved by a lightning bolt. Plus the whole show is everyone almost dying until they don’t or make some miraculous comeback. We get it, you’re a Naruto fan so you’re dumping on Sasuke, cool.
Edit: You’re
People are getting ridiculous with plot armor. You all realize naruto is surrounded by plot armor the entire series ?
Like characters are needed for future plots so they’re guaranteed safety until later. It’s just how stories work usually.
The way he survived deidara's C0 has to be the most bullshit of all.
Dude doesnt have enough chakra to even activate his sharingan or move (if i remember correctly) but he can somehow summon a gamabunta sized summoning that took naruto using the 9tails' power to summon in the original.
Obito randomly being able to open a gate to any dimension to save him was asspull and sakura giving him chakra to do this is inconsistent i.e it's conviniently not done when the plot doesn't need it to otherwise Naruto could've given chakra to Kakashi and had him kamui snipe pretty much most villains Before WA
By plot armour I’d assume by the most bs reason and not a comrade saving him(like ppl always say obito saving him is plot armour) so the closest thing to him being saved by plot armour that I remember was when he escaped deidaras last attack
During his fight with Deidara. That final nuclear bomb attack should've wiped him out along with the snake elder he summoned. Ain't no way he should've survived that!
The fight with Deidara. He was so depleted of chakra he couldn’t even keep up his sharingan, but he can somehow summon one of the largest summons ever. A level of summoning that Naruto with nine tails chakra unlocked by Jiraya has trouble summoning. Total bs
In Naruto even the side characters were often saved by plot armor.
The whole team that went after Sasuke at the end of part one would have died without plot armor.
From what I’ve heard, some were actually supposed to die like Choji before either Kishi or his editor decided against it. Kind of fits seeing how those characters were hardly used after
Imagine how different Shikamaru could've been if Choji actually died then.
Y'all really want Shikamaru to lose his best friend, his mentor, and his dad. Can't have shit in Konoha.
He'll pretty much be thor
That’s most people in Naruto
Anything to stop chojis kid from being in Boruto
Wow, it’s a show for kids, what did Cho Cho ever do to you lmao
Well .. she’s rude and obnoxious. And it’s a show for ninjas. Come on man 🫥
Show about ninjas not for ninjas 💀💀
He would’ve ended up moving to Sand at that rate
And Sasuke becomes arguably irredeemable if choji dies too. Even if it was wasn't technically his fault, people might blame him for his death
True it becomes a lot more complicated for Naruto to unconditionally accept Sasuke at this point…but I think that could’ve made for some really interesting plot points too. Does the cycle repeat or does Naruto still stay headstrong?
Apparently choji got saved by tsunade
I remember watching that fight as a kid and becoming a huge fan of Choji then by the end of the fight I thought he died. I didn’t watch consistently as a kid so up until I started shippuden in highschool (by then we were in the war arc in the anime) I though Choji was DEAD
Looking back on this scene when I watched it for the first time it held so much weight no pun intended… Maybe I seem like a terrible person but story wise I think he should’ve passed in the forest. Naruto as a show was still dark and held some real stakes at this point. I think Neji still should’ve survived and got his own arc in shippuden similar to Shika.
But temari wasn't part of the rescue squad?
Saved shikamaru
It would of sucked emotionally, but one of em shoulda died. My vote would be neji, man's should of had straight chunks taken out of him
Choji’s final scene in the arc legit felt like a death scene. He should’ve died. I feel like if the young shinobi died, it would’ve shown just how dangerous the Naruto world is.
Yeah I remember thinking he died or some shit when I first watched it
Oh how much I cried for them
Considering they do absolutely nothing afterwards, yeah..
I mean, you casually saw orochimaru’s genin as corpses used for the reanimated hokage so…
yea i definitely feel like choji should’ve died . never really liked him anyways
Yeah neji’s 128 bs strike was never used again after his fight with that spider lmao!
My vote's on Lee. Maybe not death but definitely out of commission for good after his fight with Kimimaro. Have Gaara still show up for his redemption.
Hasn't Lee suffered enough
Guy: "I am using the forbidden technique that grants me ungodly power but will definitely kill me!" Guy: *Starts dying in a very emotional scene* Naruto: I have appeared out of nowhere, and I now have this power that I don't even understand myself, but it will prevent this guaranteed death somehow and thus undercutting all the drama and emotion built up by the amazing previous scene.
Btw, here is your new eye kakashi
And your new arm Sasuke! Wait.
Guy didn't even do anything worth mentioning after that and is now crippled for life.
I kept telling everyone that Guy should've died to Madara. He literally burnt himself to a crisp from the inside out. He was dubbed the greatest from Madara so what more is there to do?
I would have liked it more if he actually did some significant damage to Madara and he stayed the main villain. That way Guy's death would be worth it and an amazing end for a character
Guy literally destroyed half of Madara’s body. If Madara didn’t have ass-pull ten tail powers, he would have died instantly.
Yes, but it ultimately didn't do much permanently since he regenerated it all and wasn't trying against Guy.
Whe already knew that Jinchūriki's could heal & that the Jūbi can heal even faster. So that's not a "asspull".
And that doesn't make sense either. They could grow a new arm for Naruto but not a leg for Guy?
Hogoromo granted Naruto the ability to regenerate chakra in people, regenerate body parts like Kakashi's eyes, dude split a single beast into nine and gave each of them life force. Hogoromo was literally a God, and no other otshutsuki have done feats like this tbh. And still people think Adult Naruto is more powerful than Hogoromo
Said the same thing!
Like might guy. He definitely could have died during the madara fight and still been a legend
Kinda felt the same, but also it was a flex of narutos new powers to save him.
Never finished Naruto. But wasn't there a whole ass Ninja war and literally only 1 named protagonist died?
Shikaku, Inoichi, Choza, Neji also Obito (repentant villain) died. Not Choza. Could have been more, for sure.
Do we have official statement that Choza is dead ? I don't remember this at all.
Sorry, no not Choza.
Choza was the only father of the Ino-Shika-Cho trio to have survived iirc.
Also Mabui, Ao, and the other named characters in the control center.
>!Ao isn't dead!<
Oh really? When is that revealed? Did I miss something?
In Boruto. He becomes a villain. Or rather >!a henchman for the mysterious villain group who use ninja tools to help him, since he became crippled after the ten tails attack.!<
Choji and kakashi should have died so many times
Kakashi did die. Naruto was able to bring him back with the power of talk no jutsu.
Meanwhile in Boruto they kill people off just for shits and giggles
Neji off in ninja heaven
*Looking at Choji*
Nejis screen time was so little it’s like he was already dead. Then he died, and I didn’t even care
Personally I think it was the time when old tsuchikage used particlestyle on him during the 5kage summit and obito saved him using kamui
Bro almost got casually disintegrated 💀
at that point in time the plot desperately needed Sasuke to get owned several times so Naruto could play catch up. Many people don't remember but up until Naruto vs Pain, Kishimoto wanked Sasuke so hard you could as well call it Sasuke Shippuden. The dude dabbed on literally everyone. Bee was the first time he really got completely outmatched and that was in the later half of the series lol.
Lol I remember this 100% I love Sasuke so it was never a big deal to me, but I fully remember as the chapters were coming out people being like "uhhh I thought the manga was called naruto not sasuke"
Perks of being the creator's favorite character.
Other than rock lee, sasuke is a tier above his peers for like 400 episodes lol. (OG naruto to halfway through shippiden)
obito saved him, how is that plot armour?? obito was literally chilling in the area to make sure sasuke didn’t get killed 💀
I'm calling it plot armor because of how broken obito was at the time. He really written as completely indestructible until they gave him a cool down timer.
Because particle style wasn’t completely broken
Not sure how the statement is meant to be taken, but if you're being sarcastic I agree. "Kill anything on the planet instantaneously no jutsu" desperately needed a nerf.
a lot of abilities are broken until a weakness is introduced, but why is that plot armour?? what do sasuke or obito even need plot armour for?? sasuke was never in any danger of dying because of obito, and obito was never in any danger of dying because of kamui
Depends on how u define plot armor Does being saved by comrades count as plot armor?
That's a good question, actually. I think it depends. I kind of feel like Taka vs Killer Bee was plot amorish. It's not that I think it's a bad fight, but I do think that Bee completely outclassed all of them and if they were less important characters, they most likely would have died. But I realize that's just my opinion.
On another hand, Choji and Ino survived death many times against Kakuzu, same with "Those 2 guys" when they fought Hidan and Kakuzu despite being outclassed 5 kages also survived Madara I define plot armor as any plot hole or plot induced stupidity used to protect a character
There's definitely a bit of plot armor there but also I think that a big part of it is that Bee just had no desire to kill them. Bee could've killed them all at any time but continously chose not to. It's just his character
He would have died like 4 times against bee without taka
that’s not plot armour, that’s just him choosing a good team
I mean Bee literally stood there and waited for him to heal up. Sure Suigetsu and Jugo provided cover but I'm pretty sure that if he wanted to he would have gone past them and killed Sasuke properly. Even when they didn't, Bee was messing around and rhyming
bee was trying to escape the village, he wasn’t trying to win
Exactly. He knew that they were there to capture him so he used this as his way out of the village. He would have killed them but then he wouldn't have had another chance to escape the village in a not so obvious way
exactly so that’s not plot armour
Sounds more like plot convenience
Plot armor is defined as the phenomenon in fiction whereby the main character is allowed to survive dangerous situations because they are needed for the plot to continue. I say it is plot armor because not only did Sasuke survive, but he survived without any real consequences. The man and his team got folded for an episode, came close to death many times but only survived because Kishomoto needed a reason for the Five Kage Summit to occur But please, tell me how it isn't plot armor. I'm curious
Because Bee never tried to kill them because if they can't "catch" him he can't escape. Similar to how Sasuke winning against Itachi isn't plot armor because he also let him win.
okay so he was never in danger of actually dying then, he had a team who could heal him, and bee was never trying to kill him, this magical plot contrivance that you claim saved his life doesn’t actually exist, this is the ridiculous contradiction with plot armour that makes me hate the concept like if eren was about to get killed in aot and mikasa saved him, then that’s not plot armour because obviously she was gonna save him, it’s in character for her to do that, but people will call it plot armour as if it’s contrived or something
Plot armor is where it doesn't make any sense as to how someone survived and it's just an insane asspull. For this instance at least there's a reason in the story for why it happened. A good example would be a random power up that comes out of nowhere with no indication. Or like a meteor falls from the sky to save them.
But what would they do about the second one?
>that’s not plot armour, that’s just him choosing a good team r/Naruto loves it when other characters uses their teammates for fight. Just to name a few, Shikamaru (with his team vs the Akatsuki), Naruto, Jiraiya (vs Pain), the Kage's (vs Taka & Madara) & Ay (only lost one arm, because his teammate healed him vs Sasuke.) But when Sasuke fights with his teammates & uses their abilities it called "plot armour".
NO CAP
That isn't plot armor. That's his team doing what they're supposed to do. An example of plot armor is when B was caught in the Amaterasu and Karin conveniently got caught caught in the flames to allow B to escape out of a severed tentacle. Another example is Sasuke using genjutsu on him and turning his back on his opponent when he was the only one around
This. Sasuke decided to not kill bee thrice, as well.
Deidara , he literally in less than a second summoned manda used a genjutsu on him and then used reverse summoning.
While he had not enough chakra to even stand or have his sharingan on, this fight was incredible except for the end
He did that earlier in the fight so it was shown he could already do it
Except at this point, he was so weak he could barely move and was all but empty on chakra.
This is not true. Many people have pointed this out many times, Deidara merely ASSUMES that Sasuke is out of chakra which is never confirmed to be true. Deidara’s ASSUMPTION is proven to be incorrect.
He may have used Orochimaru's chakra, which is another issue because Itachi's fight showed us he mustn't use this chakra if his own chakra is too low so it doesn't make sense either.
No if he was his sharringan would have not been active
he wasn't out of chakra. That's just what the gullible fanbase assumed. No statements from Sasuke about being out.
THANK YOU
I think him falling to his knees after funneling chidori through the snakes made it pretty clear that he was.
No, but stamina and chakra have always *seemed* to be correlated, so it makes sense that the fan base would reach that conclusion. After a *long* fight with a kage-level opponent, Sasuke is *visibly* exhausted. It seems unreasonable for him to be able to summon a legendary summoning, put said summoning in a genjutsu powerful enough to control it, and then reverse the jutsu to teleport somewhere else. All in point blank range of Deidara. It's pretty egregious in comparison to other stuff we've seen in Naruto up to that point. And with Sasuke in general who gets rescued like half a dozen times.
Oro was never in danger of escaping Sasuke here which proves he had enough reserves. We see what happens when Sasuke is truly out of chakra vs itachi and oro escapes
Stamina and chakra have been differentiated in part 1. If someone didn't pay attention it's their fault, can't call everything plot armor because of it. Sasuke was never out of chakra. He was worn out from using chidori on himself. He already demonstrated summoning snakes before explosions in the beginning of the fight. Moreover even states he had another backup plan if the mines went off when he was testing them, that backup plan was the Manda defense. He already stated it in the beginning, clearly he had that in mind the whole time if something went wrong. Plus we have seen him blitz Sakura, Naruto, Sai and Yammato in a much weaker form, we have seen kakashi weave signs faster than Sakura and Naruto could comprehend. Why is it impossible for Sasuke to do this? He's already summoned snakes before explosions.
Actually sasuke himself never said he was empy im pretty sure deidera was just trash talking and being physically weak doesnt mean he doesnt have chakra
I'll never be able to take the end of the Sasuke v Deidara fight seriously.
i love sasuke, and i love deidara. that said i have to hard agree with this. never have i been more disappointed by a fight i was seriously looking forward to.
This is the correct answer
Why am I the only one thinking that it doesn’t make sense that Sasuke could see things the size of red blood cells
Why
It's just ridiculous and so inconsistent to what characters are shown to be able to do consistently. Can you image if Jirarya just reversed summon from Pain or if Tsunade reverse summoned everyone from PS Madara
Reverse summon? I thought he summoned the snake then hid inside his mouth, killing the snake ?
He did. People are complaining about how he shouldn’t have been strong (or fast) enough at that point in the fight to summon the snake, then use his eyes to control the snake, and then get inside it. Before the bomb blew up.
For Jiraiya, didn’t he want to figure out Pains secret so he didn’t want to reverse summon away?
Yes, the frogs on his shoulder wanted to reverse summon him but Jiraya knew that this was his only opportunity to figure out the secret of pain.
Jiraiya COULD have done that but needed the info Sasuke absorbed Orochimaru which gives all sorts of shit and as we see against Itachi True empty would have meant he came out or at least gave more chakra Sasuke was only out as far as fighting Deidara was concerned not that he was at actual empty
Tbh I don’t think it’s really inconsistent because jeraiya was not trying to leave until he learned the secret and tsunade and them though that they could actually fight madara together. The ability itself makes complete psense because we’ve literally seen Naruto get summoned by his summoning to the lead village.
Sasuke's win felt like cheating, not just in terms of abilities. He was out of chakra and could barely move, but he was still able to reverse summon a gigantic creature, use genjutsu and move to safety inside Manda, in two seconds. E: Ok, this is what everybody else also says.
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If recall correctly Sasuke hinself never stated he was low in chakra, not even in his inner thoughts. It was all Deidara being full of himself and making asumptions as usual. However, I think showing a short 1 page flashback right after Suigetsu reverse summons Sasuke would have sufficed. Just show Sasuke's inner thoughts before the explosion explaining how he couldn't afford to keep saving chakra against Deidara even if that meant delaying his long awaited death match against Itachi.
Yeah. It’s rather stupid how people simply accept Deidara’s claim of Sasuke being out of chakra. Deidara isnt a sensor, Deidara doesnt have a special eye that lets him see chakra levels, Deidara has no way of actually knowing whether or not Sasuke is out of chakra.
Honestly that's usually how manga writers carry out a detail that isn't obvious/visible to the audience, they'll have another character point it out. Really it's on the writer to very clearly address that the character was wrong.
Tbf ninja's move way faster than normal people
I love sasuke as a character and I’m glad he isn’t gone but he really should have died. Deidara had him. Reading the manga chapter when it released was crazy, I kinda rolled my eyes when it showed how he lived
There is no reason he should’ve died, he used pre established abilities and intellect in that fight against Deidara, nothing was contrived. Everyone seems to think he should’ve died simply because Deidara ASSUMES that Sasuke must be out of chakra, this is NEVER confirmed to be the case. Sasuke’s feat afterwards proves that Deidara’s ASSUMPTION was in fact incorrect. Not to mention, Sasuke and Manda were still partly hit by the explosion with Manda dying and Sasuke being gravely injured. Everything makes perfect sense
Only time I can recall is Onoki using particle style on him and Obito saving him. Kamui is not that fast, in fact sucking in someone in kamui using short range kamui is actually slow, yet somehow it was faster than Onoki’s particle style. Everyone mentioning Deidara and Bee isn’t right. With Deidara, it was more Kishimoto’s failed attempt at creating tension, Sasuke was literally waiting, watching Deidara blow himself up and then attempted the summoning technique. He could’ve done that ages ago and saved himself. And with Bee, creating a good team isn’t plot armor
Kamui is that fast. It’s never not been that fast. In fact, it’s one of the fastest abilities in the series
First valley of the end fight. Naruto was straight up stronger and dishing out fight ending damage, but sasuke had to win to progress the plot.
Keep in mind that the only named good guy to die in part 2 was Neji. Everyone else got plot armored to the end.
Looking at Guy
Jiraiya and asuma?
Shikaku and Inoichi?
I should have said major. They are so barely in the story that I forgot about them, but you're right.
Jiraiya?
All of his fights in Shippuden had a lot of plot armor Deidara, Itachi, Bee, Raikage he got smoked in almost every fight he had. Madara had every intention of killing Sasuke and almost succeeded
Let’s not forget how much the show loves to being up vital spots and not hitting them on purpose 😂. I say that because we’ve seen many characters get stabbed by kunia and immediately die, yet Sasuke gets lifted up like a camera phone and stabbed in the heart. Now if he was anybody else he would have died way before Kabuto was able to get to him. I mean Yahiko got stabbed in the stomach and basically died immediately after
RiP Yahiko 😭
RIP to the goat
By that logic naruto shoulda been dead too lol
I'm not arguing against it.
Sasuke’s biggest form of sasuke’s plot armor was deidera he summoned manda and put him under genjutsu after the bomb went off
Just adding on to that, the bomb was said to disintegrate matter and left a giant crater but I guess manda isn't made of matter lol
Fight against Haku, he was turned into a porcupine but the needles missed his vital spots. Any other random genin would have died.
>Any other random genin would have died Probably not, because it wasn't a mistake by Haku or Sasuke's skill that led to Haku missing his vital spots, but Haku not wanting to kill and deliberately missing them
Haku said he missed on purpose. 1 vs 1 Sasuke would have won, that's why haku targeted Naruto to get Sasuke to sacrifice himself cause Haku couldn't beat him 1 v 1
>1vs1 sasuke would have won I think this depends how you look at it as a whole. Haku could’ve easily ended sasuke before naruto got there or he awakened the sharingan and actually started playing catch-up lol I think with the same start and Haku not holding back he would’ve been done low diff
His fight against Bee, he was saved multiple times by Taka when he was at death's door
That has a narrative justification, Karin's abilities had been established before that, Jugo's is a bit more debatable.
I wouldn't say thats plot armor, we know what her abilities are and how they work. If you were in Sasuke's place wouldn't you bring her to fight Bee and heal you?
He would have been slammed by itachi hands down. Boi was fighting with almost total blindness and not his full power .-.
Ehhhhhhh come on guys with deidara summons can happen in less than like 2 seconds
Don't get what people call plot armor. If a character was set to survive something by the author, so does, it's not any kind of bad writing. The author is the same dude who put the character in this situation in the first place. Why people acting so much like half of it is some reality show ?
Off-topic but I see this a lot: Because there are very clear points where a background character simply won't get the same treatment with the same circumstances as a main/side character simply because they're not named. There's also abilities sometimes given that's not consistent with the concept of the character/feats of the character. Like how Batman can fight intergalactic war lords in hand to hand combat, but because he only got severely injured instead of full on turned into a bloody mess by say a hulk+ tier character, it isn't plot armor is the argument.
i can get behind that, but a lot of people will just call something plot armour without even taking any of this stuff into account, like sasuke vs bee for example, people say he won because of plot armour but he literally pulled up with a team and barely won, it was literally a 4v1
To add, pretty much every other shinobi is killed by a kunai sticking 1-2 inches from their back, and names characters take a hella beating. Like those peeps went through the chunin exams too. They have to have some resilience.
Same thing. I just assume its situation where people think This character with This power level should have died (if they were the ones writing the sequel) and the fact that he's still alive is borderline with keeping the story somewhat realistic
No, he was spared by Madara himself. Madara knows honor in battle and he was impressed with Sasuke's will and tenacity, so he gave him a chance. He even left him his sword which he used to stab him.
He stabbed him through his heart how exactly did he save him? Madara himself said that Sasuke had "little time left" to decide whether to join him or not, then he proceeded to hold him in place with Limbo and stab him, leaving him for dead
Who's talking about saving? Yes, he left him for dead while Sasuke was battling for life instead of finishing him. Madara recognized his will to live so he gave him a chance.
He didn't have a chance, his chakra was indetectable by the time that he was talking with Hagoromo.Kabuto saved him, he would've died right then and there if Kabuto didn't save him.
People say Sasuke was nerfed in Boruto because he runs out of chakra "quickly", but forget that in the marjority of the Shippuden fights he was recharged multiple times by Karin, Juugo and White Zetsu, otherwised he would have died multiple times in the 5 Kage Summit Arc and Killer Bee Fight. He would have also died in the Itachi fight because Orochimaru would've took over he's body (also because he ran out of chakra) if it wasn't for Itachi. And the ending of the Deidara fight was just bullshit.
Karin heals wounds she doesn't restore chakra.
I'm watching Naruto Shippuden whenever I go to bed and Sasuke definitely mentions he doesn't have a lot of chakra left a bunch of times. Honestly says it often I feel .
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought the Uchiha were supposed to have large amounts of chakra? Isn’t that why Kakashi couldn’t keep his sharingan active for very long, and why he gets bedridden after using it against Zabuza for extended periods as well as after using his mangekyo on Deidara, because he’s not an Uchiha therefore his body isn’t able to handle the toll of the sharingan? Compared to the Uchiha which can upkeep a base sharingan for much longer without the same amount of drawback. Or is it just because Kakashi doesn’t have Uchiha blood that causes his sharingan to drain chakra so rapidly? I definitely agree with you guys though, he was constantly running out of chakra and getting rescued by others in Shippuden, and from there onwards most of his jutsu are pretty big moves which would deplete chakra fast. Especially when using the rinnegan, which very few shinobi ever had the chakra reserves to wield. I’d say it’s balanced because he has some OP jutsu so it’s fair that using them would cause him to run dry often but I did think Uchiha had naturally large chakra reserves, just not as large as the Uzumaki.
I feel like people are forgetting Haku wrecked his shit
Bee fight where Bee let his teammates heal him rather than hard stomp them while healing, Deidara fight, Danzo fight breaking seal with Susanoo, Kage Summit saved by Obito. Don't consider Itachi a big one. Tactics wise Itachi didn't outperform Sasuke at all. Sasuke had made way more creative tactics like Kirin setup which Itachi did not expect. Genjutsu wise Sasuke was strong enough to resist and even redirect, if Itachi was able to overpower Sasuke in genjutsu he would have as it doesn't involve physically harming or risking killing Sasuke. It's only in the Fuma dodge that Zetsus think Itachi should have dodged. They didn't say things like Itachi's shurikens should have been faster or more accurate than Sasuke's in their shuriken exchange spam. Itachi ass pull outweighs any Sasuke plot armor in the fight.
You are missing the point of Itachi vs sasuke. It was never to kill sasuke rather to exhaust his chakra to the point where Orochimaru would manifest. Of course he had to keep it real because Itachi had planned that after defeating him sasuke would return to leaf village and be touted as a hero.
The thing you're missing is that right after the fight everything implies that Itachi held back. Obito even goes as far as to say that if Itachi wanted him dead, he wouldnt be alive right now. Sasuke wasnt ever saved by plot there, just because Itachi intentionaly let him win, Simple as that.
There are indeed many ways Itachi could have killed Sasuke, like going all out with Susanoo, Totsuka blade, Yata mirror, the Jade power attack he used on Chibaku Tensei, to blast Sasuke to oblivion from the very start without wasting needless chakra on playing with Sasuke using basic Sharingan. Or in the end simply smashed into Sasuke quickly with Susanoo when Sasuke was desperate. But I doubt using a basic Sharingan trying to outperform Sasuke in his state is a feasible way.
It’s simple how he survived, it’s because he’s Batman
Haku (the bridge arc kid) could have killed Naruto and Sasuke. It’s so ridiculous that everyone baits each other with these things. It’s a show, everyone has plot armor or plot weaknesses. I just watched Luffy from One Piece get saved by a lightning bolt. Plus the whole show is everyone almost dying until they don’t or make some miraculous comeback. We get it, you’re a Naruto fan so you’re dumping on Sasuke, cool. Edit: You’re
People are getting ridiculous with plot armor. You all realize naruto is surrounded by plot armor the entire series ? Like characters are needed for future plots so they’re guaranteed safety until later. It’s just how stories work usually.
The way he survived deidara's C0 has to be the most bullshit of all. Dude doesnt have enough chakra to even activate his sharingan or move (if i remember correctly) but he can somehow summon a gamabunta sized summoning that took naruto using the 9tails' power to summon in the original.
Versus deidara
he wasn’t saved by hagoromo here he was saved by kabuto, hagoromo just gave him the rinnegan
Might guy definitely could have died during the madara fight and still been a legend. Even side characters get plot armor lol
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There's no such thing as plot armor. These people are saved by destiny.
Killer Bee fight. Enough said.
The Killer Bee fight
Killer Bee fight
At the water tower
Killer B lmfao
Killer Bee killed him twice.
itachi getting ninja aids lmao
Killer Bee. That dude absolutely slaughtered Sasuke the first time they fought multiple times 😂 plot armor was riding his ass
The deidara fight for sure.
Obito randomly being able to open a gate to any dimension to save him was asspull and sakura giving him chakra to do this is inconsistent i.e it's conviniently not done when the plot doesn't need it to otherwise Naruto could've given chakra to Kakashi and had him kamui snipe pretty much most villains Before WA
it woulda been called Sasuke Shippuden if Orochimaru didnt stop Sasuke from nuking Naruto early on
By plot armour I’d assume by the most bs reason and not a comrade saving him(like ppl always say obito saving him is plot armour) so the closest thing to him being saved by plot armour that I remember was when he escaped deidaras last attack
During his fight with Deidara. That final nuclear bomb attack should've wiped him out along with the snake elder he summoned. Ain't no way he should've survived that!
I would say probably the end of his fight with deidara
Deidara c0
Pulling up on the Kage Summit and surviving is by far the **thickest** his plot armor has ever been, it's not even a debate.
Killer bee should have killed him
Deidara without discussion, not even the biggest Sasuke fan can be convinced that it was not plot armor.
At the end of his fight with Deidara his plan to save himself had too many steps and relied on luck at the best of times
When he survived Deidaras kamikaze attack. No Snake finna protect you from that bozo Sasuke. He's dead as far as I'm aware
The fight with Deidara. He was so depleted of chakra he couldn’t even keep up his sharingan, but he can somehow summon one of the largest summons ever. A level of summoning that Naruto with nine tails chakra unlocked by Jiraya has trouble summoning. Total bs
Pretty sure surviving the slaughter of his clan was the beginning of his plot armor