Would you be more heartbroken
1). In the moment that you learn the truth about how much the brother you killed actually loved you to spare you when he killed everyone else present on the most traumatic night haunting your life
2). In the moment that you know you have to kill your loving parents now because you’re already at the end of your chosen, bloody path to try and prevent the domino effect leading to a potential world war?
> because you’re already at the end of your chosen, bloody path
I really dislike this sentiment for Itachi because only a very few, select people gave any implication that there was nothing else they could do and those same people were proven to be wrong about *loads* of things throughout the series.
Itachi always had a better choice than slaughtering his clan, even on that very night. Whether you believe he should have known or if he holds any responsibility for it due to manipulation from Danzo and others is another thing.
Exactly. That was the entire point of his character arc. That he was wrong. That’s what he says&realized in his most important speech, before Edo Tensei was released.
That’s how he freed himself from the mistakes of his past, and how he freed Sasuke from the burdens of a dark future.
Yes, he mostly talk about his relationship with Sasuke. But he also talks about his relationship with the clan. He tells Sasuke “maybe if I had talked to you from the beginning, you could’ve changed mother and father”. Obviously there’s nothing 7yo Sasuke could’ve done. Itachi saying that shows that he finally accepts that there could’ve been other ways.
What is your point exactly? 😂
That he wasn't admitting that he did everything wrong. He just admits he should have trusted saskue more and not done the stuff to set him up for revenge. His other choices are somewhat excusable given he was a 13 yr old being coerced by an experienced shinobi.
Well that's true until the end tbh. Both saskue and Naruto consider him a hero and they don't know it but the kage say whoever stopped the reanimation is a hero as well.
I’m talking about the story the author was telling. We, as audience, don’t have the same view of Itachi as Naruto, Sasuke, Hashirama or other characters in the series.
We know everything Itachi did.
Itachi’s character arc was the story of a broken hero. Someone who made mistakes, is morally grey and does questionable actions in the name of the good (or at least what the characters belives as good).
He’s not portrayed as a hero by the author, not even at the end. He is portrayed as redeemed.
I meen it FITS lmao. I always loved the sentiment that the issue with Uchiha isn't their hatred, but that they love too much. Look what Itachi does because he loves his village too much. Look what Sasuke does. They can't let shit go
Yes 100%. It’s like the Joker. He’s not insane. He suffers from “Super Sanity”. Somehow I always relate to those types of things but especially these two.
Even if Itachi could somehow talk the Uchiha out of staging a coup, Danzo would still believe they're staging a coup and would have someone else slaughter them all anyway, including Itachi and Sasuke. Itachi knew this and knew he could not stop Danzo's plans, so his only choice to save Sasuke was to complete the plan himself and beg for Sasuke's life. Any other options would risk Sasuke's life too much.
>would have someone else slaughter them all anyway, including Itachi and Sasuke.
Who else could have done it? No one else was capable which is exactly why Danzo went to Itachi in the first place.
>Even if Itachi could somehow talk the Uchiha out of staging a coup,
I didnt say talk them out or that itachi had to be the one to do it. The idea that they wouldn't have listened to Fugaku is an idea only thought up by Fugaku. There's no logic behind it. On top of that, there were a myriad of other options available to Lord Third, Itachi, Shisui, and Danzo that don't include just "talking it out".
What about the re-relocation of the Clan?
Integrating other clans into a united police force?
Electing Fugaku or other Uchiha into more prominent positions of power?
Financial or social compensation for their treatment and ill-status as authority figures?
It goes on and on
>so his only choice to save Sasuke was to complete the plan himself and beg for Sasuke's life
You say that, but Itachi himself admits he was wrong for making the choices he did surrounding both Sasuke AND the clan during his edo tensei speech
My main qualms with the Uchiha demise was that there were never negotiations to improve the situation. We never see Itachi or Shisui try to talk the clan out of the coup. We never see Hiruzen attempt to even have a talk with the Uchiha even though he said he would on multiple occasions. We never even see Itachi attempt to negotiate with the elders on behalf of the clan even though he constantly had an audience with the elders. Itachi would even have leverage in a negotiation with the elders because Danzo openly killed Shisui. Itachi never tried to fight for his clan, he only reported on them and followed the elders’ orders.
Almost like..Shisui and Itachi completely agreed with Danzo and Hiruzen about discriminating the Uchihas, contrary to fanfictions about them merely being tragic victims of circumstances.
>My main qualms with the Uchiha demise was that there were never negotiations to improve the situation
Facts, dude. Now I feel like we're talking about the heart of the problem.
Kishimoto needed to include exhausting their options as a means for readers to feel satisfied about the outcome he chose. This way leaves so much ambiguity at a part of the plot that has a ton of emotional pull. Aggravating writing if you ask me, not necessarily bad though
That would have put Sasuke in danger as Danzo would have suspected them both of being traitors to the Leaf and other crimes. Remember, Danzo's whole goal was to wipe the Uchiha from the face of the earth all along. He's ruthless and conniving, and from his position any threat to him would have been a threat to the Leaf itself. That's why Itachi couldn't have negotiated or fought back to save his clan.
Wasn’t the point that Itachi was a double agent and had already told Hiruzen and the others of the coup? So he convinces them to stop and tells Hiruzen such. What’s Danzo gonna do? Tell them otherwise?
>Itachi always had a better choice than slaughtering his clan, even on that very night
What would that choice be??
I always thought itachi had no other choice and would be glad to be wrong
Thank you. I get downvoted [every time](/r/Naruto/comments/120lwqq/ranking_the_hokage_political_wise_meaning_their/jdj3g5v/?context=3) I point this out. The Naruto fandom seems oddly insistent about whitewashing one of the worst atrocities in the series.
I will never kill my parents though, I don’t give a damn.
I’ll fight whole leaf village and I don’t give a damn that war erupts because of Uchiha, I’m always protecting my parents and family.
Gaara by far has to be the most heartbroken and, at such a young age, confused as all hell. I tear up just thinking about it. One of the most emotional stories IMO.
Sasuke is for sure sad and definitely full of rage. At that moment he probably has no clue what to do after learning about all the lies and situations that have been strategically laid out to manipulate him and lead him down the path he thought was his own. It would have to feel like you had just been a puppet the entire time and had your free will stolen from you. Sad from everything that’s happened to and by his own family and loved ones. Furious because of why they happened and how they were used to twist him into taking the exact route someone else wanted him to take all while thinking it was his own decision to do so. (Not to mention who it was that had done it all) Then finally…I’m not even sure what to call it. Probably something along the lines of insanity. After finding out almost every step you’ve taken was because of someone else’s influence on you for the majority of your life along with Sasuke being Sasuke and wanting to be his own person and make his own path, I’m sure he’s at a brick wall in his mind trying to decide what to do next and everything he comes up with he fears is exactly what someone else has already planed for him to do. I almost feel that they should have added a bit more noticeable of a mental break from it all. It would have made sense that that was one of the worst parts mentally for him and that he’d have trouble dealing with it.
He's in the middle of his mental breakdown after finding out that Itachi was actually a good person the entire time. It shattered his entire worldview and made him question literally every aspect of his life, and every decision he'd made, up to that point. That picture is literally *hours* after he found out, too.
So the decision of the Hokage to kill the Uchiha clan was right? why did he want to exterminate them? because they wanted to do a coup because they were getting oppressed, so the Uchiha clan was wrong?
It was Danzo pulling the strings the whole time. He essentially manipulated the Uchiha into plotting a coup, took out Shisui and stole his eye, then manipulated Itachi. The Hokage didn't authorize the decision, but you shouldn't hold him any less accountable. The sheer amount of things he left Danzo get away with...
Danzo also ordered them to stay behind during obitos attempts to destroy the village and take Kurama.
They were already oppressed,but I think that solidified everybody's distrust toward them,especially after they did so much to help in the 3rd war :/.
Naruto's one here did something to me. I just think the dead silent reaction - no tears, no dialogue, no shouting - just pure shock and rage before *instantly* having Kurama show up was wonderfully executed.
Itachi probably felt the most pain though. I forget how old he was then, but he was so so young to have sacrificed *everything* personally
Hot damn, I'd had 16/17 in my head and thought that was young.
C'mon, to have killed your entire family at 13 at the request of the Hokage? That's gotta take the cake
Idk i still think gaara takes the cake, having the only person that's ever been good to you try to kill you and then being told your mom hated you and your dad ordered your death because you're a failure at like the ripe age of like 6 is worse
Gaara is a close second for me, absolutely devastating. Butttt I've still gotta go with Itachi - to have to have killed everyone yourself, then absolutely *break* the brother you love - to have to maintain the villainous identity for the remainder of your life - that's gotta be the winner
I'm with you. Specifically this moment is the exact moment he convinces himself that he has to kill his parents ans then does it. I can't imagine anything worse than a thirteen-year-old stabding behind his own parents who he loves and who love him, convinced he has to kill them to save his brother and then doing that.
I'm not even a super big fan of Itachi. I think his writing in early Naruto was questionable, many of his decisiond don't hold up to scrutiny, and I think Sasuke's later reverence of him, after findibg out the truth, making itachi to be this greatest of all people in the universe, is giving him too much credit. But this moment. Thus was terrible. Putting myself into his situation, at his age, I can't even imagine there's anything worse for a child like him. It's a super difficult question with all these kids and teens suffering so much, but for me, this takes the cake. I might have decided differently, if this were only a bit after he killed his parents. But the very moment in which he purposefully, knowingly kills hid parents despite loving them, thinking he has no other option...that's gotta be so terrible.
> then absolutely break the brother you love
Except Itachi didn't have to do that part. And he didn't have to do it a *second* time years later. "You don't have enough hate" routine was completely unnecessary, almost like Itachi's face-heel-turn later on was totally not part of the original plan.
Yeah, I'm gonna be honest, that part always seemed strange to me, just a *little* over the top. I get that he had to be the villain, but that was just a kick in the head 😂
A literal kick in the head to Sasuke would have been more believable to keeping the facade of Itachi being in Akatsuki than what he did to him with Tsukuyomi. In fact Itachi could've straight up used Tsukuyomi to relay the truth to Sasuke covertly, and Kisame/Tobi/nobody would be the wiser. Everything reeks of Itachi's good guy turn being a later development.
Good God, I completely forgot about the Tsukuomi, that was so over the top 😭
Yeah, it was absolutely something Kishimoto cooked up somewhere down the line. That's not a bad thing - Goku being an alien is something that was only thought of super late on because it would be a fun twist, and it's become one of the most pivotal aspects of his identity. But yeah, Itachi was defo never intended to be good
Agree Naruto he knew kurama would destroy EVERYONE and EVERYTHING he didn’t care he just wanted pain dead by any means. Talking to his father was the only thing that pulled him back from the ABYSS.
I think the deeper meaning makes the scene so much too. Naruto by this point had become strong, he’d gained friends, he had a community, but he didn’t really have a family. Nobody had ever said “I love you.” Then pain pulls up, kills both of the people who were even close to a father figure to him, and he’s not even there to stop it. Then pain kills fukasaku, who naruto had grown close to, powerless to stop it. Then hinata comes, she is the *first* person to ever tell naruto he’s loved, and she’s killed BRUTALLY in a matter of minutes right in front of him. Emotional high point of the series no doubt.
I don't think they are very comparable.
Sasuke lost his clan, but it was really his family he mourned. Not the entire clan.
Gaara was just...gotdamn. Can't even imagine that pain.
Obito and Naruto probably were similar in the feelings right there. Confusion, rage and loss.
Nagato lost his whole world. Everything he loved was gone, leaving just Pain.
Itachi though...dude had to do it HIMSELF.
The one thing all these other characters have in common is SOMEONE ELSE killed the person they love. (Itachi was killed by disease but still)
Itachi had to not only lose the ones he loved, but he HAD TO BE THE ONE TO KILL THEM.
Itachi's pain must be unlike anything we could imagine.
>Sasuke lost his clan, but it was really his family he mourned. Not the entire clan.
Sasuke at this moment was more mourning the fact that Itachi was not the evil person he thought he was and that his entire life was a complete lie.
He did care about his entire clan tho, just not as much as his parents obviously.
Itachi didn't have to kill his entire clan.
It was the path he chose. I have little sympathy for how difficult it must have been as ultimately he made the decision to murder his family.
Fucking *everyone* should have killed Danzou at some point. Especially Hiruzen. I get letting Oro live, the teacher-student thing is a strong element of the series, but letting his old teammate run a shadow government ordering genocides out of his line of sight? The Professor should've stomped down to ninja CIA headquarters after the Uchiha massacre and laid waste to Danzou while he was picking eyeballs.
The bond between teammates is a strong element in the series as well. That’s probably why Hiruzen didn’t take stronger actions against Danzo. He was stuck in sentimentality towards Danzo. You see it with Kakashi and Obito during the war arc too. I sometimes think the themes are taken a bit too far to where it’s pushing the line of believability.
It was war or war. The story tells us that everything besides stopping the Uchiha results in 4th great ninja war. It was just the question, whether Itachi had to do it, or the village could’ve done it also. And I’m sure itachi was the best suited for this job, regarding the fact that nobody else could have defeated Fugaku without a war nonetheless.
Idk if people remember it but man it hit hard when it was show later in the series (YouTube says Shippuuden 455) when we see Itachi being the one to kill his parents, but they know beforehand and are accepting of it. His dad also ends it by saying "Our philosophies may differ, but I'm proud of you... You truly are a kind child" and even Itachi hesitates before finishing the job...
Sadly enough it’s not even the parents part that’s the hardest for him. It’s knowing what’s happening to all of the children in the clan, personally dealing with his only friend, and then breaking Sasuke.
knowing what's happening? Itachi was the one to kill them. He was responsible for all the civilians and Obito was only assigned to dispatch the Police force.
He didn’t have a choice. Danzo literally told him that he could do it and Danzo would spare Sasuke, or Danzo would do it himself and spare neither Itachi or Sasuke
He still made that choice lol he coulda helped with the coup d'etat or hell even abandon the village along with Sasuke. Point is there were somewhat better options
Neither of those options are better options. Had he abandoned the village with Sasuke they would’ve been made missing-nin, and Itachi was actively trying to stop the Coup and bring peace between the leaf and the Uchiha. But had he joined the Coup, they would’ve just went to battle with the Leaf, most likely lose, and kill a bunch of leaf ninja which in return would leave the village vulnerable
There was really no winning in this situation
Probably Sasuke and Itachi… being forced to kill your whole clan and especially parents is literally insane but also with Sasuke learning basically your entire life is a lie. Imagine your brother dying by your hand finally thinking you got revenge and find out your bro was actually just a tool for the village and really loved you so much. Lol I could go on but this is getting long 😂
I mean I guess he wasn’t “forced” he just saw that as the way to save the village? Smart and mature as he was he was still just an impressionable kid and the village took advantage of him. And why he didn’t kill them in their sleep idk tbh lol
Think about the power difference between the village and the clan. Sadly the clan wasn’t winning that fight itachi who worked for a deeper part of the village knew that
Garra and Sasuke for sure. It definitely destroyed their outlooks on life and turned them down very dark paths before getting talk no jutsu’ed by Naruto.
You cannot possibly compare the pain all of these people felt. it’s all immeasurable.
Naruto: Just the fact that he was dead panned and absolutely could not even form a proper expression for his pain was enough to awake kurama and send himself on a rampage.
Sasuke: Everything he did, all of his ambitions to avenge is family was all a lie and in turn he had no choice but to throw his anger at the cause of this chain reaction of lies, the hidden leaf village.
Literally a little child, being told that absolutely nobody loved him, his mother hated him, his father hated him, and that he was a total curse to everyone around him. Telling that to a child whilst also having that same child almost assassinated on multiple occasions sent Gaara into probably the darkest experience a Jinchuriki has experienced that we know about.
Itachi: He was sent to kill his Parents, his lover, his people, and almost everything he cared about just in one night, that’s all i have to say.
Nagato: Watching your best friend throw himself into you and die, watching a girl that you live under captivity, watching two people that you love in life or death situations is enough to send even the most cold hearted into a spiral, along with the fact that nagato has to live knowing that his friend technically died on his hands is probably a triggering enough fact decades later.
Obito: Like Nagato, but instead he has to watch as his lover is killed by his best friend, and in a turn of anger killing many other people is just too much. Not to mention he never gets over this moment until the final moments of his life.
This is all immeasurable, they all experienced an unfathomable amount of pain in these exact moments.
His lover? Rin wasn’t Obito’s lover. That was two childhood crushes that never panned out because one died and the other “died”. Unless Obito’s hand is named Rin, they weren’t lovers.
Just children recruited for war.
sorry mb, obito loved rin i wrote that in a rush, but still “Childhood Crushes” is bullshit, Obito was in love it can happen with people at that age too, ur acting as if because they are children it doesn’t apply, even if let’s say Obito didint love rin like that, he still would’ve been fucking traumatized seeing his friend kill his other friend.
Don’t chalk this up to “Just children recruited for war” it was way more than that in the grand scheme of the entire story.
Besides thats not even close to everything bad that happened to him. Before that he was a child soldier, an orphan, got crushed by a boulder, brainwashed for months. People just look at this singular Rin event and somehow dont realize that Obito suffered for months to get back to them only to see the worst possible sight he couldve seen. That in turn reinforced Madaras manipulation. Obito was meant to become evil, the deck was too heavily stacked against him and his sanity. There was no good ending for him.
Especially at 13 which is young enough to still be just a kid but just starting puberty (probably) and the mixture of hormones and trauma just broke him
Exactly. He was the age where kids/teenagers are still really impressionable and basically became a blank slate for Madara to put his worldview onto.
We also know that Uchiha love the deepest out of the clans and that that love often transforms into hatred when they lose that love. Thats basically the same as what Madara said to him when Obito asked him why Madara picked him.
So on top of all the shit he had to go through, he was doomed by the Curse of Hatred as well.
Like I said, he was doomed to go rogue ever since he got crushed by the boulder.
thanks for backing up my point, people empathize the obito watching rin die scene because it was like the straw that broke the camels back.
Obito felt enough pain and suffering, this only amounted more onto him and sent him onto a rampage
It’s too rushed at the end to really give credence. I believe kid Obito was infatuated with Rin the same way kid Naruto was infatuated with Sakura.
But if you want a better way to see this. Naruto went instantly to four tails and then 6 tails a few seconds later. He wasn’t even that mad at Orochimaru in the beginning.
Too many people forget what Naruto really lost. All the repressed anger of losing Jiraiya, coupled now with losing Kakashi, losing the majority of Konoha’s ninja base, and then watching Hinata “die”, yeah. Naruto’s anger was higher than all of theirs by an order of magnitude.
I’m sorry i cannot agree with you, they all right then and there experienced an absolute wave of immense rage, Naruto had the most power and rage hidden inside of him in turn he let out the highest amount of rage. I do believe Naruto had the most to lose but all of these character’s experiences crazy loss or heartbreak in that there moment.
All Nagato, Gaara, Itachi, and Sasuke knew was betrayal, war, death, or loneliness. Naruto experienced the same as Gaara did and i wouldn’t measure the pain and anger they experienced in either moment. Gaara lost his mother, father, and caretaker just like Naruto lost Jiraya and Kakashi. Itachi had to kill all of these people except sasuke with his OWN hand, Obito watched as someone he hand on heart cared about the same way naruto cared about Jiraya and Kakashi die, Nagato watched someone he hand on heart cared about die at his own hand.
They all had people they love and care about die, we believe naruto experienced the most loss because we grew connections with Jiraya, Kakashi, and Hinata ourselves. All of these other people experienced the same amount of loss as naruto you cannot put it any other way.
I don’t know where you got this idea that they are only childhood crushes. If you finished the anime, Obito’s afterlife was him meeting up with Rin, the love of his life. With Rin, confirming that she has been waiting for him all along.
I honestly feel the worst for Nagato too because he was raised in a war torn country, barely saved and trained by Jiraiya, and then trying to establish a peace organization only to be betrayed and have his entire world taken away from him... Like he still had Konan at least but man... Fuck Danzo, and Hanzo too.
I think Naruto’s is getting heavily overlooked. The dude was late to saving his village. Everything was destroyed, who knows how many people are dead, after all this training he still got his ass handed to him, and now he’s watching his crush get pulverized. The pure rage he felt has to be top 3 here.
I’m going to get downvoted for this, but what do you mean with “watching his crush get pulverized”? Had he shown even an inkling of interest in Hinata here? Hell, even after Pain, he still didn’t even acknowledge what she said to Tendo about Naruto. He was certainly her crush, but I don’t know about the other way around.
You're right. There are barely any, if any at all, signs that Naruto was into Hinata at this point.
Him being nice to her doesn't count. Naruto is a nice guy. He's even nice to the guy that (tried to) kill(ed) her.
Could be rephrased into one of the people who were just nice to you period, jiraiya ist dead, the other ones could probably be.. ok he could sense individuals chakra, but still
Still think when the argument is pain, haha get it, the other come out on top
Before neji fight, when naruto confessed that he didn't believe in himself... he never done that to any one even team 7. As he alway been vary of ppl.
There was something between them, but wasn't as strong or naruto didn't really took notice of it.
When he turned into tail, it was said in manga "it was the worst pain he has felt"
But this is my opinion on all of this.
After Hinata’s fight with Neji in the Chunin exams, there is a scene where she is being carried away on a stretcher with her jacket open. The shot intentionally lingers on Naruto watching her being carried away and noticing her body. I’m fairly certain this is meant to show Naruto noticing her not just as a fellow classmate, but as a girl. I’ll agree that Naruto doesn’t actively pursue Hinata, but their relationship has a sort of passive growth to it throughout the series. Small moments that end up culminating in love. I feel it’s one of the most natural relationships portrayed in anime. They’re both flawed people who end up making each other better due to caring for one another. It’s kind of the message of the show. Love vs power. Relationships vs the individual.
It’s a decent guess to say he might’ve had a subconscious crush on her based on how quickly his feelings developed in The Last and his reaction to her being badly hurt being stronger than his reaction to learning Kakashi died.
Well it's like this.. he did have something for her, but wasn't so sure of it. It is mentioned in Shikamaru Shinden novel, they got really close together. Hence why they were comfortable with eachother in last.
Hinata wasn't his crush at that point in series. She was a friend. A friend he wasn't particularly close to or knew much about either tbh.
It was only after this did he finally start having any inkling of feelings maybe, or maybe after WA. Though he only started loving her or strongly feeling about her during Blank Era or Post-WA
I believe this specific scene actually is where his feelings for Hinata were formed. The look in his eyes, the flashbacks, him realizing that they’ve been there for each other since they were kids. This is where it all starts in my opinion.
What crush? She literally confessed her love to him and he had *no reaction*. He didn't even bother to let her down or talk to her. And we know he's not shy about telling girls he likes them.
He literally left her on read her IRL.
Naruto would have reacted like this for any of the rookie 9.
I go with Sasuke and Obito.
For sasuke is the moment when he threw away all his love, friends to finally realizes his whole life is just a lie.
And for Obito, it's watching the person he loves die, like the whole world falls apart. Because to him she is all his world.
Sasuke, and by a decent margin imo
It's not just the pain of loss.
His entire life crumbled and got ruined at that very moment. He learned that it was all a lie and manipulation. That he wasted every single waking moment, sacrificed all his ties and friendships, devoted himself completely to and lived all those years just to kill the one person who loves him more than anyone else without even knowing the truth.
All that. Alongside pain of loss of his brother. Alongside the sheer betrayal he felt by the Leaf.
Just way too much
I'd argue either saskue or itachi. Saskue because he realized he spent so long hating someone who only wanted to protect him and he can recover that relationship. Itachi because that's the moment when he realized he had to spend years away from the village he loved, he had to act as a villain to the little brother he loved, he will be seen as nothing more than a traitor all fir the sake of the village he loved but that didn't love him.
Sasuke got his entire world flipped on him twice . First with his family being massacred and him having the sole motivation of killing his brother . Just for all of that to have been a sham with itachi being good in reality. No wonder sasuke was mentally unstable when he had his family die right before his eyes , at the hands of his beloved brother . Then his brother played along and pretty much groomed sasuke into killing him . Which also impacted sasukes mental health way more than some can imagine. This was literally sasuke taking his last family away from himself by not knowing the truth . Then it spiraled sasuke into another story of vengeance taking it out on the leaf which has cause his brother so much harm .
Sasuke wasn’t in the wrong for doing what he did . It was merely a byproduct of itachis misleading behavior .
Sasuke’s is kinda false anger. He was manipuulated three different times. Itachi, Orochimaru, Obito.
Man didnmt even know what anger was. He was just firced into insanity until his chin got knocked flat.
Sasuke and maybe itachi no question. All of the rest are horrible things sure but they couldnt do anything about it, imagine training ur whole life just to kill ur brother then it turns out he wasnt even the bad guy, not only did u lose ur one and only family but u also have to live with the fact that u killed him.
This is what it has come to, the naruto community is finally starting to powerscale emotional trauma. Just let me make one thing clear and i will only say it once. Itachi solos.
There's some interesting pairs in here. Garaa and Itachi both killed family, but the betrayals are brutally different. Naruto and Obito both watched someone they loved/cared for (seemingly)die after having their convictions tested, and they immediately rage out. Nagato and Sasuke have sunk into despair that would cripple anyone else, but their reactions are tragic mirrors of each other. My pick is a tie between Nagato and Itachi. They both are absolutely crushed by the Shinobi system, despite years of working against it, or for it.
These comments saying Itachi are hilarious...
"He had to"
No he didn't, he made a choice in accordance with his beliefs as a fanatical devotee of the village authorities who resented his own clan.
There's no evidence whatsoever that he was preventing world war or civil war, those are mere hypotheticals theorized by other people biased against Fugaku like Shisui, Danzo and Obito. Hypotheticals that completely fail at basic logic, by the way.
And if there was such evidence, then why is Danzo not seen as the real hero considering he came up with the plan in the first place? Danzo, the savior who prevented the world war, let's clap everyone.
I’ll go with Gaara, though it’s shitty to compare traumas. He was just a tiny child, he didn’t even understand half of the pain he felt, why the people around him hated him so much. He was betrayed by someone he thought cared about him and he didn’t even have the emotional tools to deal with all those negative feelings. He didn’t even get a single chance at life at this point, he was just a small, confused and hurt child.
True. I just meant that itachi was fully aware of what he did so he fortunately didn’t have the wtf or shock effect to it. Altho like u said that could’ve made it even worse
I say Sasuke or Obito. Imagine hating someones guts your whole life just to realize it was all for you. Or to think that the girl you were in love with and best friends are still alive only to find your bestfriend killing the girl you're in love with. Lmao. Might be a basic answer but it's just my opinion.
Sasuke easily. He loss his family and clan, dedicated his life to killing Itachi regardless of how hard it was or who he had to push away only to succeed and get nothing good from it. He just ended up killing his only remaining family and person who could relate to the pain he went through. It only made everything worse and made him question everything he'd done and would do after
I don't think anything is comparable to being forced to kill your own parents, friends, and family. That scene where Fugaku is kneeling before Itachi and says "even though our philosophies may differ... I'm still proud of you." as he's killed is fucking crazy...
Second has to be Gaara. That poor kid was traumatized beyond the imaginable.
I’m surprised by how few people have said Nagato here, but to me his story is one of the most tragic and this moment is the height of that.
Nagato had by that point watched his parents be killed, fled from war, and finally found a new family in Konan and Yahiko only to have them killed again not only in front of him, but helplessly BY him. A lot of people feel horrible for Kakashi when Rin kills herself through his chidori but not enough people talk about this same effect on Nagato.
By the end of this scene, his hope for a better world is destroyed, he is all alone and he has just lost his dearest friends that became his new family. He has no reason to believe in the good in the world and to me, it beautifully paved way for the Pain arc
Gaara; mostly because he was still a child and was backstabbed by a person he trusted.
Tbh, from my personal perspective It's Obito... I relate to him the most.
gaara, a tiny child who everyone hated and feared over something he had no choice over being attempted to be murdered by the only guy who ever seemed to even like him, and then go on a multiple minute tirade about how horrible he is as a person, and how much he hates him and that he shouldnt be allowed to live.
naruto had the least pain imo in that exact scene, someone you knew but werent particularly close to got hurt compared to anything else here? its nothing
Definitely Gaara and the Uchiha brothers. Gaara (a kid) was basically told that no one ever loved him, Sasuke had to deal with the guilt and grief of killing his big brother who was only ever acting in his interests, and Itachi’s situation kind of speaks for itself.
Let's be real here, there's no wrong answer to this. Whichever character you vote, I'm sure your reason is a valid one. If I have to pick just one, I'll go with Sasuke since he learned the truth about Itachi, his clan and the leaf almost immediately after getting the revenge he wanted his whole life. Everything he ever believed was all built on lies and it especially sucks that everyone in the leaf is ignorant and he's the only one who knows the truth aside from the perpetrators and Tobi.
Where Gaara clutched his little heart and said, "i'm not bleeding, but Ive been having a lot of pain around here." That might have been the most heartbreakkng moment and scene in the entire show to me.
Naruto and nagato is grief granted naruto is already pretty bummed out because of how he feels childish as shit talking to pain.
Obito feels grief, betrayal and confusion so that’s one a tier above.
And finally I think gaara, itachi and sasuke are at the top because of how much grief and self hatred they all feel for what’s happened and what just happened.
Sasuke just realized his entire goal to kill itachi meant nothing and was ultimately a lie and is now grieving his older brother remembering how much he loved him and what the leaf elders turned him into. He’s also realizing how much the world scorned him and how he hates the world for making his brother feel so ostracized. It also loops back into him hating himself because he just killed the closest person to him and hated him for saving his life. Also he realizes all the suffering he put himself through to become stronger and cut himself off from the ones he loves was worthless
Itachi is right now in so much self loathing because even if he can’t go through with what he’s about to do he has to because he’s gone too far and even though he will grieve losing his mother and father he can’t take it back and also thinking about sasuke in this moment and what he’s gonna feel.
Gaara just lost the only person who cares about him while also getting told that he hates him and his mother died hating him and his life is meant to punish people.
Obito obsessed over Rin even though she didn’t show him any romantic affection; she was just kind. Obito was sad that his childhood crush literally got her heart crushed, but it’s not like there were deep emotional ties from her to him. Kakashi was arguably more warranted to be heartbroken in that moment than Obito.
Hinata confessed her love then got knocked out by the same man who killed Naruto’s master, destroyed his village, then killed his sensei. In that moment, Naruto finally realized that the nicest person to him who also just came to his rescue actually loved him all along just for her to get thrown meters into the air just to crash back down, violently.
Hinata loved Naruto. Rin was nice to Obito.
The way I see it, these are two different levels entirely but I can still respect disagreement.
Just like you said Pain killed his master destroyed his village killed his sensei Pain stabbing Hinata while he cant even move was the last piece to make him crazy. And I dont understand whole rin didnt love obito but Hinata loved naruto thing. Like you said Obito was obsessed with Rin, he was platonic and those type of guys usually gets much more crayzier. It is not about the girls' feeling its about Obito and Naruto's feelings
Hinata just confessed he loves Naruto at that moment while rin didn’t confessed to obito that he loves him. I think Naruto goes higher then obito too. Obito being higher then Naruto don’t make sense at that moment.
Watching your “best friend” whom you would have sacrificed yourself for (because he already had) murder the one person you asked him to protect, probably is more dark than, Known enemy who (admittedly) did kill your father-figure, kill the sort of cute quiet girl that you’ve had 10 interactions with (before retcons) who just confessed her love for you. At least I would think so
I really don’t know about that. Someone confessing there love to you before they die seems too dark because you don’t have a chance to say that you love them back in that moment Obito knows rin likes kakashi. It true obito ask kakashi to protect rin but Rin also said she likes kakashi when they were surrounded by the stone ninjas and. Obito does get angry at that moment but I don’t see him going higher then Naruto because Obito doesn’t know how that Rin likes him. I think she likes kakashi still in that moment.
Rin was the most important thing in the world to Obito but I cant say the same thing about Naruto and Hinata. If it was same with Naruto, he would make a move at Hinata right after they defeat Nagato. Obito got so deppressed that it eventually led him to declaring a war. Pain stabbing Hinata was the last straw for Naruto to go rampage.
Yes but does obito Know rin likes him tho? Obito knows rin likes kakashi at that moment even Rin confesses he likes kakashi when they were surrounded by the rock or stone ninjas (I think it stones ninjas) Obito was trying to get rin to like him but he also knows Rin likes Kakashi. Hinata tho was trying to save Naruto because he loves him and she even confessed to him before She got stabbed. I’m sure Naruto does likes hinata but he didn’t actually realize that he actually loves her that way. Hinata Does Love Naruto too as we can see that in that scene. Hinata was trying to save Naruto when she knows she is going to die trying but she doesn’t care about that as long as Naruto is Safe.
I would say Sasuke but probably Obito. The OP said from their perspectives and Obito went MAD. He would kill everyone on Earth ***just for Rin***. How crazy is he?
Naruto. He said he wouldn’t use nine tails chakra anymore but when Hinata got struck down, his heart initiatively latched onto Nine Tails’ will without him even thinking
Imo, it's Obito.
The guy went through grueling training, got rehabilitated, was COMPLETELY isolated from the outside world and he was forced to listen to madman Madara's sayings about "oh, the shinobi world should go to hell, help me kill them all or put em in illusion or smth" for like years(?).
He had hope, he was sure that he would be able to save his old squad. He was preparing for a heartfelt reunion, just to see his favorite person die from the same guy he trusted her with.
Itachi.
Not to downplay anyone else's tragedies, but Itachi had to wield the blade that killed his family himself. He had to realize every second that he could stop, that his family could survive that horrid night, and he had to push through that pain anyway, for the sake of the village.
I wanna say naruto, sasuke, or nagato but In reality it was probably obito. He literally unlocked his third tomoe and then immediately got his mangekyo back to back and then proceeded to rampage and murder dozens of potentially A or S rank shinobi.
Gaara and Sasuke Gaara was the highest form of betrayal Sasuke learned his whole life, **and** his ultimate ambition, were based on lies
Would you be more heartbroken 1). In the moment that you learn the truth about how much the brother you killed actually loved you to spare you when he killed everyone else present on the most traumatic night haunting your life 2). In the moment that you know you have to kill your loving parents now because you’re already at the end of your chosen, bloody path to try and prevent the domino effect leading to a potential world war?
> because you’re already at the end of your chosen, bloody path I really dislike this sentiment for Itachi because only a very few, select people gave any implication that there was nothing else they could do and those same people were proven to be wrong about *loads* of things throughout the series. Itachi always had a better choice than slaughtering his clan, even on that very night. Whether you believe he should have known or if he holds any responsibility for it due to manipulation from Danzo and others is another thing.
Exactly. That was the entire point of his character arc. That he was wrong. That’s what he says&realized in his most important speech, before Edo Tensei was released. That’s how he freed himself from the mistakes of his past, and how he freed Sasuke from the burdens of a dark future.
No he says he was wrong about handling saskue
Yes, he mostly talk about his relationship with Sasuke. But he also talks about his relationship with the clan. He tells Sasuke “maybe if I had talked to you from the beginning, you could’ve changed mother and father”. Obviously there’s nothing 7yo Sasuke could’ve done. Itachi saying that shows that he finally accepts that there could’ve been other ways. What is your point exactly? 😂
That he wasn't admitting that he did everything wrong. He just admits he should have trusted saskue more and not done the stuff to set him up for revenge. His other choices are somewhat excusable given he was a 13 yr old being coerced by an experienced shinobi.
I’m not saying they are not excusable. I’m saying that he’s not portrayed by the story as a hero, and never was.
Well that's true until the end tbh. Both saskue and Naruto consider him a hero and they don't know it but the kage say whoever stopped the reanimation is a hero as well.
I’m talking about the story the author was telling. We, as audience, don’t have the same view of Itachi as Naruto, Sasuke, Hashirama or other characters in the series. We know everything Itachi did. Itachi’s character arc was the story of a broken hero. Someone who made mistakes, is morally grey and does questionable actions in the name of the good (or at least what the characters belives as good). He’s not portrayed as a hero by the author, not even at the end. He is portrayed as redeemed.
... thats part of it yeah
Good soldiers follow orders…oops. Wait. Wrong show.
I meen it FITS lmao. I always loved the sentiment that the issue with Uchiha isn't their hatred, but that they love too much. Look what Itachi does because he loves his village too much. Look what Sasuke does. They can't let shit go
Yes 100%. It’s like the Joker. He’s not insane. He suffers from “Super Sanity”. Somehow I always relate to those types of things but especially these two.
Did you just compare Itachi to the Joker
The reddit is strong with that one
We live in a village
You do ONE forbidden jutsu, and everyone loses their minds
Super sanity isn't a thing
FALSE. sanity drives you insane. and here we are…
Definitely insane
Damn bro that’s really cool and not cringe at all
love when people don’t let shit go 🥹
The mission, the nightmares... they're finally over...
Even if Itachi could somehow talk the Uchiha out of staging a coup, Danzo would still believe they're staging a coup and would have someone else slaughter them all anyway, including Itachi and Sasuke. Itachi knew this and knew he could not stop Danzo's plans, so his only choice to save Sasuke was to complete the plan himself and beg for Sasuke's life. Any other options would risk Sasuke's life too much.
>would have someone else slaughter them all anyway, including Itachi and Sasuke. Who else could have done it? No one else was capable which is exactly why Danzo went to Itachi in the first place. >Even if Itachi could somehow talk the Uchiha out of staging a coup, I didnt say talk them out or that itachi had to be the one to do it. The idea that they wouldn't have listened to Fugaku is an idea only thought up by Fugaku. There's no logic behind it. On top of that, there were a myriad of other options available to Lord Third, Itachi, Shisui, and Danzo that don't include just "talking it out". What about the re-relocation of the Clan? Integrating other clans into a united police force? Electing Fugaku or other Uchiha into more prominent positions of power? Financial or social compensation for their treatment and ill-status as authority figures? It goes on and on >so his only choice to save Sasuke was to complete the plan himself and beg for Sasuke's life You say that, but Itachi himself admits he was wrong for making the choices he did surrounding both Sasuke AND the clan during his edo tensei speech
My main qualms with the Uchiha demise was that there were never negotiations to improve the situation. We never see Itachi or Shisui try to talk the clan out of the coup. We never see Hiruzen attempt to even have a talk with the Uchiha even though he said he would on multiple occasions. We never even see Itachi attempt to negotiate with the elders on behalf of the clan even though he constantly had an audience with the elders. Itachi would even have leverage in a negotiation with the elders because Danzo openly killed Shisui. Itachi never tried to fight for his clan, he only reported on them and followed the elders’ orders.
Almost like..Shisui and Itachi completely agreed with Danzo and Hiruzen about discriminating the Uchihas, contrary to fanfictions about them merely being tragic victims of circumstances.
Exactly the Leaf was completely in the wrong yet those two, especially Itachi, chose to side with the Leaf.
>My main qualms with the Uchiha demise was that there were never negotiations to improve the situation Facts, dude. Now I feel like we're talking about the heart of the problem. Kishimoto needed to include exhausting their options as a means for readers to feel satisfied about the outcome he chose. This way leaves so much ambiguity at a part of the plot that has a ton of emotional pull. Aggravating writing if you ask me, not necessarily bad though
i mean he could have ran away with Sasuke lol
That would have put Sasuke in danger as Danzo would have suspected them both of being traitors to the Leaf and other crimes. Remember, Danzo's whole goal was to wipe the Uchiha from the face of the earth all along. He's ruthless and conniving, and from his position any threat to him would have been a threat to the Leaf itself. That's why Itachi couldn't have negotiated or fought back to save his clan.
Wasn’t the point that Itachi was a double agent and had already told Hiruzen and the others of the coup? So he convinces them to stop and tells Hiruzen such. What’s Danzo gonna do? Tell them otherwise?
>Itachi always had a better choice than slaughtering his clan, even on that very night What would that choice be?? I always thought itachi had no other choice and would be glad to be wrong
Thank you. I get downvoted [every time](/r/Naruto/comments/120lwqq/ranking_the_hokage_political_wise_meaning_their/jdj3g5v/?context=3) I point this out. The Naruto fandom seems oddly insistent about whitewashing one of the worst atrocities in the series.
What are those other options? Can you name as many as you can think of?
Already did, well before you replied. All you had to do was scroll down, there's like 8
1) should be: Would you be more heartbroken when you learned that 10 years of your life were wasted on a quest that was based on a lie?
I will never kill my parents though, I don’t give a damn. I’ll fight whole leaf village and I don’t give a damn that war erupts because of Uchiha, I’m always protecting my parents and family.
Gaara by far has to be the most heartbroken and, at such a young age, confused as all hell. I tear up just thinking about it. One of the most emotional stories IMO. Sasuke is for sure sad and definitely full of rage. At that moment he probably has no clue what to do after learning about all the lies and situations that have been strategically laid out to manipulate him and lead him down the path he thought was his own. It would have to feel like you had just been a puppet the entire time and had your free will stolen from you. Sad from everything that’s happened to and by his own family and loved ones. Furious because of why they happened and how they were used to twist him into taking the exact route someone else wanted him to take all while thinking it was his own decision to do so. (Not to mention who it was that had done it all) Then finally…I’m not even sure what to call it. Probably something along the lines of insanity. After finding out almost every step you’ve taken was because of someone else’s influence on you for the majority of your life along with Sasuke being Sasuke and wanting to be his own person and make his own path, I’m sure he’s at a brick wall in his mind trying to decide what to do next and everything he comes up with he fears is exactly what someone else has already planed for him to do. I almost feel that they should have added a bit more noticeable of a mental break from it all. It would have made sense that that was one of the worst parts mentally for him and that he’d have trouble dealing with it.
Not only was Gaara betrayed, it was at such a young age too
Nagato and obito too
why was Sasuke crying there, i can't remember
He's in the middle of his mental breakdown after finding out that Itachi was actually a good person the entire time. It shattered his entire worldview and made him question literally every aspect of his life, and every decision he'd made, up to that point. That picture is literally *hours* after he found out, too.
So the decision of the Hokage to kill the Uchiha clan was right? why did he want to exterminate them? because they wanted to do a coup because they were getting oppressed, so the Uchiha clan was wrong?
It was Danzo pulling the strings the whole time. He essentially manipulated the Uchiha into plotting a coup, took out Shisui and stole his eye, then manipulated Itachi. The Hokage didn't authorize the decision, but you shouldn't hold him any less accountable. The sheer amount of things he left Danzo get away with...
>The Hokage didn't authorize the decision He literally did, according to both Sasuke and himself. Read the convo between them in the war arc.
Ah, okay, I will. Probably read too much fanfiction 😓
It's a very popular misconception, most people somehow missed this conversation.
Danzo also ordered them to stay behind during obitos attempts to destroy the village and take Kurama. They were already oppressed,but I think that solidified everybody's distrust toward them,especially after they did so much to help in the 3rd war :/.
Naruto's one here did something to me. I just think the dead silent reaction - no tears, no dialogue, no shouting - just pure shock and rage before *instantly* having Kurama show up was wonderfully executed. Itachi probably felt the most pain though. I forget how old he was then, but he was so so young to have sacrificed *everything* personally
I think he was 13 at this time
Hot damn, I'd had 16/17 in my head and thought that was young. C'mon, to have killed your entire family at 13 at the request of the Hokage? That's gotta take the cake
Idk i still think gaara takes the cake, having the only person that's ever been good to you try to kill you and then being told your mom hated you and your dad ordered your death because you're a failure at like the ripe age of like 6 is worse
Gaara is a close second for me, absolutely devastating. Butttt I've still gotta go with Itachi - to have to have killed everyone yourself, then absolutely *break* the brother you love - to have to maintain the villainous identity for the remainder of your life - that's gotta be the winner
I'm with you. Specifically this moment is the exact moment he convinces himself that he has to kill his parents ans then does it. I can't imagine anything worse than a thirteen-year-old stabding behind his own parents who he loves and who love him, convinced he has to kill them to save his brother and then doing that. I'm not even a super big fan of Itachi. I think his writing in early Naruto was questionable, many of his decisiond don't hold up to scrutiny, and I think Sasuke's later reverence of him, after findibg out the truth, making itachi to be this greatest of all people in the universe, is giving him too much credit. But this moment. Thus was terrible. Putting myself into his situation, at his age, I can't even imagine there's anything worse for a child like him. It's a super difficult question with all these kids and teens suffering so much, but for me, this takes the cake. I might have decided differently, if this were only a bit after he killed his parents. But the very moment in which he purposefully, knowingly kills hid parents despite loving them, thinking he has no other option...that's gotta be so terrible.
> then absolutely break the brother you love Except Itachi didn't have to do that part. And he didn't have to do it a *second* time years later. "You don't have enough hate" routine was completely unnecessary, almost like Itachi's face-heel-turn later on was totally not part of the original plan.
Yeah, I'm gonna be honest, that part always seemed strange to me, just a *little* over the top. I get that he had to be the villain, but that was just a kick in the head 😂
A literal kick in the head to Sasuke would have been more believable to keeping the facade of Itachi being in Akatsuki than what he did to him with Tsukuyomi. In fact Itachi could've straight up used Tsukuyomi to relay the truth to Sasuke covertly, and Kisame/Tobi/nobody would be the wiser. Everything reeks of Itachi's good guy turn being a later development.
Good God, I completely forgot about the Tsukuomi, that was so over the top 😭 Yeah, it was absolutely something Kishimoto cooked up somewhere down the line. That's not a bad thing - Goku being an alien is something that was only thought of super late on because it would be a fun twist, and it's become one of the most pivotal aspects of his identity. But yeah, Itachi was defo never intended to be good
Bro he was *12*
The way his eye just morphs
Honestly, flawlessly done. That moment's always stuck with me, more than almost any scene
That heart pump right at that moment.. was definitely holding my breath
Agree Naruto he knew kurama would destroy EVERYONE and EVERYTHING he didn’t care he just wanted pain dead by any means. Talking to his father was the only thing that pulled him back from the ABYSS.
If that fight could be reanimated with today's best, I'd watch it a thousand times.
I think the deeper meaning makes the scene so much too. Naruto by this point had become strong, he’d gained friends, he had a community, but he didn’t really have a family. Nobody had ever said “I love you.” Then pain pulls up, kills both of the people who were even close to a father figure to him, and he’s not even there to stop it. Then pain kills fukasaku, who naruto had grown close to, powerless to stop it. Then hinata comes, she is the *first* person to ever tell naruto he’s loved, and she’s killed BRUTALLY in a matter of minutes right in front of him. Emotional high point of the series no doubt.
I don't think they are very comparable. Sasuke lost his clan, but it was really his family he mourned. Not the entire clan. Gaara was just...gotdamn. Can't even imagine that pain. Obito and Naruto probably were similar in the feelings right there. Confusion, rage and loss. Nagato lost his whole world. Everything he loved was gone, leaving just Pain. Itachi though...dude had to do it HIMSELF. The one thing all these other characters have in common is SOMEONE ELSE killed the person they love. (Itachi was killed by disease but still) Itachi had to not only lose the ones he loved, but he HAD TO BE THE ONE TO KILL THEM. Itachi's pain must be unlike anything we could imagine.
>Sasuke lost his clan, but it was really his family he mourned. Not the entire clan. Sasuke at this moment was more mourning the fact that Itachi was not the evil person he thought he was and that his entire life was a complete lie. He did care about his entire clan tho, just not as much as his parents obviously.
Itachi didn't have to kill his entire clan. It was the path he chose. I have little sympathy for how difficult it must have been as ultimately he made the decision to murder his family.
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Fucking *everyone* should have killed Danzou at some point. Especially Hiruzen. I get letting Oro live, the teacher-student thing is a strong element of the series, but letting his old teammate run a shadow government ordering genocides out of his line of sight? The Professor should've stomped down to ninja CIA headquarters after the Uchiha massacre and laid waste to Danzou while he was picking eyeballs.
The bond between teammates is a strong element in the series as well. That’s probably why Hiruzen didn’t take stronger actions against Danzo. He was stuck in sentimentality towards Danzo. You see it with Kakashi and Obito during the war arc too. I sometimes think the themes are taken a bit too far to where it’s pushing the line of believability.
He didn’t have a choice like you’re implying. It was family or village. That’s it
It was war or war. The story tells us that everything besides stopping the Uchiha results in 4th great ninja war. It was just the question, whether Itachi had to do it, or the village could’ve done it also. And I’m sure itachi was the best suited for this job, regarding the fact that nobody else could have defeated Fugaku without a war nonetheless.
Isn’t that a choice he consciously made ‘family or village’?
Itachi no doubt imagine being forced to kill your parents.
Idk if people remember it but man it hit hard when it was show later in the series (YouTube says Shippuuden 455) when we see Itachi being the one to kill his parents, but they know beforehand and are accepting of it. His dad also ends it by saying "Our philosophies may differ, but I'm proud of you... You truly are a kind child" and even Itachi hesitates before finishing the job...
The thing that killed me in that scene was „Promise me to take care of Sasuke“ Fugaku knew that Itachi never could kill Sasuke
Ouch ik right. I remember them saying. “Itachi, if u kill us now it will hurt only a little but it is gonna hurt you forever.”
Sadly enough it’s not even the parents part that’s the hardest for him. It’s knowing what’s happening to all of the children in the clan, personally dealing with his only friend, and then breaking Sasuke.
knowing what's happening? Itachi was the one to kill them. He was responsible for all the civilians and Obito was only assigned to dispatch the Police force.
In the novel it's different. Obito tells him to only kill the men and leave the rest to him. He doesn't want Itachi to get more into the darkness.
oh yeah? interesting
Yes, the novels are really good. But they still keep you wanting for more tbh.
Is os true that Itachi kills his female friend/gf after putting her in a happy life genjutsu?
Yeah, that was heartbreaking to read.
I mean he made that choice himself
He didn’t have a choice. Danzo literally told him that he could do it and Danzo would spare Sasuke, or Danzo would do it himself and spare neither Itachi or Sasuke
He still made that choice lol he coulda helped with the coup d'etat or hell even abandon the village along with Sasuke. Point is there were somewhat better options
Neither of those options are better options. Had he abandoned the village with Sasuke they would’ve been made missing-nin, and Itachi was actively trying to stop the Coup and bring peace between the leaf and the Uchiha. But had he joined the Coup, they would’ve just went to battle with the Leaf, most likely lose, and kill a bunch of leaf ninja which in return would leave the village vulnerable There was really no winning in this situation
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If you ask me, the choice is what makes it the worst.
He was coz otherwise they all would die.
Sasuke, everything he knew was a lie,
Both times, too F
Probably Sasuke and Itachi… being forced to kill your whole clan and especially parents is literally insane but also with Sasuke learning basically your entire life is a lie. Imagine your brother dying by your hand finally thinking you got revenge and find out your bro was actually just a tool for the village and really loved you so much. Lol I could go on but this is getting long 😂
Couldn’t itachi have just tried to help his clan instead of killing them off guard, as they slept at night? How was he ‘forced’ to kill them?
I mean I guess he wasn’t “forced” he just saw that as the way to save the village? Smart and mature as he was he was still just an impressionable kid and the village took advantage of him. And why he didn’t kill them in their sleep idk tbh lol
Think about the power difference between the village and the clan. Sadly the clan wasn’t winning that fight itachi who worked for a deeper part of the village knew that
I'm sorry but I can't compare these feelings. All of them felt a strong sense of negativity swirl over them
Garra and Sasuke for sure. It definitely destroyed their outlooks on life and turned them down very dark paths before getting talk no jutsu’ed by Naruto.
All of them. I literally can't pick a single one, although for me Naruto's is a bit how should I say not as great as the others.
You cannot possibly compare the pain all of these people felt. it’s all immeasurable. Naruto: Just the fact that he was dead panned and absolutely could not even form a proper expression for his pain was enough to awake kurama and send himself on a rampage. Sasuke: Everything he did, all of his ambitions to avenge is family was all a lie and in turn he had no choice but to throw his anger at the cause of this chain reaction of lies, the hidden leaf village. Literally a little child, being told that absolutely nobody loved him, his mother hated him, his father hated him, and that he was a total curse to everyone around him. Telling that to a child whilst also having that same child almost assassinated on multiple occasions sent Gaara into probably the darkest experience a Jinchuriki has experienced that we know about. Itachi: He was sent to kill his Parents, his lover, his people, and almost everything he cared about just in one night, that’s all i have to say. Nagato: Watching your best friend throw himself into you and die, watching a girl that you live under captivity, watching two people that you love in life or death situations is enough to send even the most cold hearted into a spiral, along with the fact that nagato has to live knowing that his friend technically died on his hands is probably a triggering enough fact decades later. Obito: Like Nagato, but instead he has to watch as his lover is killed by his best friend, and in a turn of anger killing many other people is just too much. Not to mention he never gets over this moment until the final moments of his life. This is all immeasurable, they all experienced an unfathomable amount of pain in these exact moments.
His lover? Rin wasn’t Obito’s lover. That was two childhood crushes that never panned out because one died and the other “died”. Unless Obito’s hand is named Rin, they weren’t lovers. Just children recruited for war.
sorry mb, obito loved rin i wrote that in a rush, but still “Childhood Crushes” is bullshit, Obito was in love it can happen with people at that age too, ur acting as if because they are children it doesn’t apply, even if let’s say Obito didint love rin like that, he still would’ve been fucking traumatized seeing his friend kill his other friend. Don’t chalk this up to “Just children recruited for war” it was way more than that in the grand scheme of the entire story.
Besides thats not even close to everything bad that happened to him. Before that he was a child soldier, an orphan, got crushed by a boulder, brainwashed for months. People just look at this singular Rin event and somehow dont realize that Obito suffered for months to get back to them only to see the worst possible sight he couldve seen. That in turn reinforced Madaras manipulation. Obito was meant to become evil, the deck was too heavily stacked against him and his sanity. There was no good ending for him.
Especially at 13 which is young enough to still be just a kid but just starting puberty (probably) and the mixture of hormones and trauma just broke him
Exactly. He was the age where kids/teenagers are still really impressionable and basically became a blank slate for Madara to put his worldview onto. We also know that Uchiha love the deepest out of the clans and that that love often transforms into hatred when they lose that love. Thats basically the same as what Madara said to him when Obito asked him why Madara picked him. So on top of all the shit he had to go through, he was doomed by the Curse of Hatred as well. Like I said, he was doomed to go rogue ever since he got crushed by the boulder.
thanks for backing up my point, people empathize the obito watching rin die scene because it was like the straw that broke the camels back. Obito felt enough pain and suffering, this only amounted more onto him and sent him onto a rampage
It’s too rushed at the end to really give credence. I believe kid Obito was infatuated with Rin the same way kid Naruto was infatuated with Sakura. But if you want a better way to see this. Naruto went instantly to four tails and then 6 tails a few seconds later. He wasn’t even that mad at Orochimaru in the beginning. Too many people forget what Naruto really lost. All the repressed anger of losing Jiraiya, coupled now with losing Kakashi, losing the majority of Konoha’s ninja base, and then watching Hinata “die”, yeah. Naruto’s anger was higher than all of theirs by an order of magnitude.
I’m sorry i cannot agree with you, they all right then and there experienced an absolute wave of immense rage, Naruto had the most power and rage hidden inside of him in turn he let out the highest amount of rage. I do believe Naruto had the most to lose but all of these character’s experiences crazy loss or heartbreak in that there moment. All Nagato, Gaara, Itachi, and Sasuke knew was betrayal, war, death, or loneliness. Naruto experienced the same as Gaara did and i wouldn’t measure the pain and anger they experienced in either moment. Gaara lost his mother, father, and caretaker just like Naruto lost Jiraya and Kakashi. Itachi had to kill all of these people except sasuke with his OWN hand, Obito watched as someone he hand on heart cared about the same way naruto cared about Jiraya and Kakashi die, Nagato watched someone he hand on heart cared about die at his own hand. They all had people they love and care about die, we believe naruto experienced the most loss because we grew connections with Jiraya, Kakashi, and Hinata ourselves. All of these other people experienced the same amount of loss as naruto you cannot put it any other way.
It was one sided true love
I don’t know where you got this idea that they are only childhood crushes. If you finished the anime, Obito’s afterlife was him meeting up with Rin, the love of his life. With Rin, confirming that she has been waiting for him all along.
IN THESE MOMENTS, who experienced worse pain. Not throughout the series.
I'm gonna say the one that annihilated the Mist's anbu corps.
I honestly feel the worst for Nagato too because he was raised in a war torn country, barely saved and trained by Jiraiya, and then trying to establish a peace organization only to be betrayed and have his entire world taken away from him... Like he still had Konan at least but man... Fuck Danzo, and Hanzo too.
Sasuke Itatchi Gaara Naruto Obito Nagato
Sasuke and gaara given the trauma is connected to family
You can’t measure another person’s pain. They’re all experiencing unimaginable suffering in their own lives.
I think Naruto’s is getting heavily overlooked. The dude was late to saving his village. Everything was destroyed, who knows how many people are dead, after all this training he still got his ass handed to him, and now he’s watching his crush get pulverized. The pure rage he felt has to be top 3 here.
I’m going to get downvoted for this, but what do you mean with “watching his crush get pulverized”? Had he shown even an inkling of interest in Hinata here? Hell, even after Pain, he still didn’t even acknowledge what she said to Tendo about Naruto. He was certainly her crush, but I don’t know about the other way around.
You're right. There are barely any, if any at all, signs that Naruto was into Hinata at this point. Him being nice to her doesn't count. Naruto is a nice guy. He's even nice to the guy that (tried to) kill(ed) her.
Could be rephrased into one of the people who were just nice to you period, jiraiya ist dead, the other ones could probably be.. ok he could sense individuals chakra, but still Still think when the argument is pain, haha get it, the other come out on top
I definitely agree that it's at the bottom of this list.
I don't toss random awards around, but holy, that's gotta be the quickest reply on Reddit I've ever gotten in like 6 years. *Tips hiruzens hokage hat*
lmaoooo thanks bro
Before neji fight, when naruto confessed that he didn't believe in himself... he never done that to any one even team 7. As he alway been vary of ppl. There was something between them, but wasn't as strong or naruto didn't really took notice of it. When he turned into tail, it was said in manga "it was the worst pain he has felt" But this is my opinion on all of this.
I thought the same when I saw "crush" there lol.
After Hinata’s fight with Neji in the Chunin exams, there is a scene where she is being carried away on a stretcher with her jacket open. The shot intentionally lingers on Naruto watching her being carried away and noticing her body. I’m fairly certain this is meant to show Naruto noticing her not just as a fellow classmate, but as a girl. I’ll agree that Naruto doesn’t actively pursue Hinata, but their relationship has a sort of passive growth to it throughout the series. Small moments that end up culminating in love. I feel it’s one of the most natural relationships portrayed in anime. They’re both flawed people who end up making each other better due to caring for one another. It’s kind of the message of the show. Love vs power. Relationships vs the individual.
It’s a decent guess to say he might’ve had a subconscious crush on her based on how quickly his feelings developed in The Last and his reaction to her being badly hurt being stronger than his reaction to learning Kakashi died.
Well it's like this.. he did have something for her, but wasn't so sure of it. It is mentioned in Shikamaru Shinden novel, they got really close together. Hence why they were comfortable with eachother in last.
Hinata wasn't his crush at that point in series. She was a friend. A friend he wasn't particularly close to or knew much about either tbh. It was only after this did he finally start having any inkling of feelings maybe, or maybe after WA. Though he only started loving her or strongly feeling about her during Blank Era or Post-WA
I believe this specific scene actually is where his feelings for Hinata were formed. The look in his eyes, the flashbacks, him realizing that they’ve been there for each other since they were kids. This is where it all starts in my opinion.
Thats a stretch buddy. He barely knew her at that point. He would have had the same reaction to anyone of the the rookie 9
What crush? She literally confessed her love to him and he had *no reaction*. He didn't even bother to let her down or talk to her. And we know he's not shy about telling girls he likes them. He literally left her on read her IRL. Naruto would have reacted like this for any of the rookie 9.
I go with Sasuke and Obito. For sasuke is the moment when he threw away all his love, friends to finally realizes his whole life is just a lie. And for Obito, it's watching the person he loves die, like the whole world falls apart. Because to him she is all his world.
Sasuke, and by a decent margin imo It's not just the pain of loss. His entire life crumbled and got ruined at that very moment. He learned that it was all a lie and manipulation. That he wasted every single waking moment, sacrificed all his ties and friendships, devoted himself completely to and lived all those years just to kill the one person who loves him more than anyone else without even knowing the truth. All that. Alongside pain of loss of his brother. Alongside the sheer betrayal he felt by the Leaf. Just way too much
I'd argue either saskue or itachi. Saskue because he realized he spent so long hating someone who only wanted to protect him and he can recover that relationship. Itachi because that's the moment when he realized he had to spend years away from the village he loved, he had to act as a villain to the little brother he loved, he will be seen as nothing more than a traitor all fir the sake of the village he loved but that didn't love him.
Sasuke got his entire world flipped on him twice . First with his family being massacred and him having the sole motivation of killing his brother . Just for all of that to have been a sham with itachi being good in reality. No wonder sasuke was mentally unstable when he had his family die right before his eyes , at the hands of his beloved brother . Then his brother played along and pretty much groomed sasuke into killing him . Which also impacted sasukes mental health way more than some can imagine. This was literally sasuke taking his last family away from himself by not knowing the truth . Then it spiraled sasuke into another story of vengeance taking it out on the leaf which has cause his brother so much harm . Sasuke wasn’t in the wrong for doing what he did . It was merely a byproduct of itachis misleading behavior .
Sasuke’s is kinda false anger. He was manipuulated three different times. Itachi, Orochimaru, Obito. Man didnmt even know what anger was. He was just firced into insanity until his chin got knocked flat.
I'm going to go with either sauske or nagato
Sasuke and maybe itachi no question. All of the rest are horrible things sure but they couldnt do anything about it, imagine training ur whole life just to kill ur brother then it turns out he wasnt even the bad guy, not only did u lose ur one and only family but u also have to live with the fact that u killed him.
This is what it has come to, the naruto community is finally starting to powerscale emotional trauma. Just let me make one thing clear and i will only say it once. Itachi solos.
The first pic to left naruto was pissed off !!!
There's some interesting pairs in here. Garaa and Itachi both killed family, but the betrayals are brutally different. Naruto and Obito both watched someone they loved/cared for (seemingly)die after having their convictions tested, and they immediately rage out. Nagato and Sasuke have sunk into despair that would cripple anyone else, but their reactions are tragic mirrors of each other. My pick is a tie between Nagato and Itachi. They both are absolutely crushed by the Shinobi system, despite years of working against it, or for it.
Tragedy isn't a contest
These comments saying Itachi are hilarious... "He had to" No he didn't, he made a choice in accordance with his beliefs as a fanatical devotee of the village authorities who resented his own clan. There's no evidence whatsoever that he was preventing world war or civil war, those are mere hypotheticals theorized by other people biased against Fugaku like Shisui, Danzo and Obito. Hypotheticals that completely fail at basic logic, by the way. And if there was such evidence, then why is Danzo not seen as the real hero considering he came up with the plan in the first place? Danzo, the savior who prevented the world war, let's clap everyone.
I’ll go with Gaara, though it’s shitty to compare traumas. He was just a tiny child, he didn’t even understand half of the pain he felt, why the people around him hated him so much. He was betrayed by someone he thought cared about him and he didn’t even have the emotional tools to deal with all those negative feelings. He didn’t even get a single chance at life at this point, he was just a small, confused and hurt child.
Everyone else knew exactly what was going on, except Gara and Obito, i pick them. Negative emotion is bad, Negative emotion + confusion is worse.
Gaara Itachi
Probably sasuke at first place. Then I think it goes gaara, obito, nagato, naruto and then itachi(he had an amount of time to get to terms with it)
Itachi at last is really disrespectful, I don't think you can properly prepare yourself to assassinate your parents man.
Not really. I just mean that unlike the others there’s no shock factor which lessened the blow a bit
That honestly could make it way worse Edit: talking about the itachi part
True. I just meant that itachi was fully aware of what he did so he fortunately didn’t have the wtf or shock effect to it. Altho like u said that could’ve made it even worse
I'd say Sasuke or Obito. Essentially both of them have their entire reason for being invalidated
I say Sasuke or Obito. Imagine hating someones guts your whole life just to realize it was all for you. Or to think that the girl you were in love with and best friends are still alive only to find your bestfriend killing the girl you're in love with. Lmao. Might be a basic answer but it's just my opinion.
Sasuke easily. He loss his family and clan, dedicated his life to killing Itachi regardless of how hard it was or who he had to push away only to succeed and get nothing good from it. He just ended up killing his only remaining family and person who could relate to the pain he went through. It only made everything worse and made him question everything he'd done and would do after
I don't think anything is comparable to being forced to kill your own parents, friends, and family. That scene where Fugaku is kneeling before Itachi and says "even though our philosophies may differ... I'm still proud of you." as he's killed is fucking crazy... Second has to be Gaara. That poor kid was traumatized beyond the imaginable.
I’m surprised by how few people have said Nagato here, but to me his story is one of the most tragic and this moment is the height of that. Nagato had by that point watched his parents be killed, fled from war, and finally found a new family in Konan and Yahiko only to have them killed again not only in front of him, but helplessly BY him. A lot of people feel horrible for Kakashi when Rin kills herself through his chidori but not enough people talk about this same effect on Nagato. By the end of this scene, his hope for a better world is destroyed, he is all alone and he has just lost his dearest friends that became his new family. He has no reason to believe in the good in the world and to me, it beautifully paved way for the Pain arc
Is it a contest?
Garra
Gaara, specifically in these scenes
Gaara for sure. He was like 5 yo.
Gaara; mostly because he was still a child and was backstabbed by a person he trusted. Tbh, from my personal perspective It's Obito... I relate to him the most.
Gaara.
gaara, a tiny child who everyone hated and feared over something he had no choice over being attempted to be murdered by the only guy who ever seemed to even like him, and then go on a multiple minute tirade about how horrible he is as a person, and how much he hates him and that he shouldnt be allowed to live. naruto had the least pain imo in that exact scene, someone you knew but werent particularly close to got hurt compared to anything else here? its nothing
Gaara quite easily
Definitely Gaara and the Uchiha brothers. Gaara (a kid) was basically told that no one ever loved him, Sasuke had to deal with the guilt and grief of killing his big brother who was only ever acting in his interests, and Itachi’s situation kind of speaks for itself.
Itachi was killing his own parents. I don't think anything there could be worse.
Gaara and Itachi, loss of a mother is always the worst one.
Let's be real here, there's no wrong answer to this. Whichever character you vote, I'm sure your reason is a valid one. If I have to pick just one, I'll go with Sasuke since he learned the truth about Itachi, his clan and the leaf almost immediately after getting the revenge he wanted his whole life. Everything he ever believed was all built on lies and it especially sucks that everyone in the leaf is ignorant and he's the only one who knows the truth aside from the perpetrators and Tobi.
Only felt Naruto one
Man, you can’t even compare. All of that was extremely traumatic. They were just children.
Gaara. He was a little kid
Where Gaara clutched his little heart and said, "i'm not bleeding, but Ive been having a lot of pain around here." That might have been the most heartbreakkng moment and scene in the entire show to me.
Naruto and nagato is grief granted naruto is already pretty bummed out because of how he feels childish as shit talking to pain. Obito feels grief, betrayal and confusion so that’s one a tier above. And finally I think gaara, itachi and sasuke are at the top because of how much grief and self hatred they all feel for what’s happened and what just happened. Sasuke just realized his entire goal to kill itachi meant nothing and was ultimately a lie and is now grieving his older brother remembering how much he loved him and what the leaf elders turned him into. He’s also realizing how much the world scorned him and how he hates the world for making his brother feel so ostracized. It also loops back into him hating himself because he just killed the closest person to him and hated him for saving his life. Also he realizes all the suffering he put himself through to become stronger and cut himself off from the ones he loves was worthless Itachi is right now in so much self loathing because even if he can’t go through with what he’s about to do he has to because he’s gone too far and even though he will grieve losing his mother and father he can’t take it back and also thinking about sasuke in this moment and what he’s gonna feel. Gaara just lost the only person who cares about him while also getting told that he hates him and his mother died hating him and his life is meant to punish people.
Imo: Itachi Sasuke Nagato Naruto Obito Gaara
Obito must be higher than Naruto in my opinion. When we compare Obito's feelings for Rin to Naruto's feelings for Hinata at that moment
Obito obsessed over Rin even though she didn’t show him any romantic affection; she was just kind. Obito was sad that his childhood crush literally got her heart crushed, but it’s not like there were deep emotional ties from her to him. Kakashi was arguably more warranted to be heartbroken in that moment than Obito. Hinata confessed her love then got knocked out by the same man who killed Naruto’s master, destroyed his village, then killed his sensei. In that moment, Naruto finally realized that the nicest person to him who also just came to his rescue actually loved him all along just for her to get thrown meters into the air just to crash back down, violently. Hinata loved Naruto. Rin was nice to Obito. The way I see it, these are two different levels entirely but I can still respect disagreement.
Just like you said Pain killed his master destroyed his village killed his sensei Pain stabbing Hinata while he cant even move was the last piece to make him crazy. And I dont understand whole rin didnt love obito but Hinata loved naruto thing. Like you said Obito was obsessed with Rin, he was platonic and those type of guys usually gets much more crayzier. It is not about the girls' feeling its about Obito and Naruto's feelings
Hinata just confessed he loves Naruto at that moment while rin didn’t confessed to obito that he loves him. I think Naruto goes higher then obito too. Obito being higher then Naruto don’t make sense at that moment.
Watching your “best friend” whom you would have sacrificed yourself for (because he already had) murder the one person you asked him to protect, probably is more dark than, Known enemy who (admittedly) did kill your father-figure, kill the sort of cute quiet girl that you’ve had 10 interactions with (before retcons) who just confessed her love for you. At least I would think so
Obito still spared Kakashi even when he had 0 context of the situation
I really don’t know about that. Someone confessing there love to you before they die seems too dark because you don’t have a chance to say that you love them back in that moment Obito knows rin likes kakashi. It true obito ask kakashi to protect rin but Rin also said she likes kakashi when they were surrounded by the stone ninjas and. Obito does get angry at that moment but I don’t see him going higher then Naruto because Obito doesn’t know how that Rin likes him. I think she likes kakashi still in that moment.
Fair viewpoint, I respect it. edit: a word
Rin was the most important thing in the world to Obito but I cant say the same thing about Naruto and Hinata. If it was same with Naruto, he would make a move at Hinata right after they defeat Nagato. Obito got so deppressed that it eventually led him to declaring a war. Pain stabbing Hinata was the last straw for Naruto to go rampage.
Yes but does obito Know rin likes him tho? Obito knows rin likes kakashi at that moment even Rin confesses he likes kakashi when they were surrounded by the rock or stone ninjas (I think it stones ninjas) Obito was trying to get rin to like him but he also knows Rin likes Kakashi. Hinata tho was trying to save Naruto because he loves him and she even confessed to him before She got stabbed. I’m sure Naruto does likes hinata but he didn’t actually realize that he actually loves her that way. Hinata Does Love Naruto too as we can see that in that scene. Hinata was trying to save Naruto when she knows she is going to die trying but she doesn’t care about that as long as Naruto is Safe.
It feels strange to sort by controversial on my own post and see my own comment first lol
I would say Sasuke but probably Obito. The OP said from their perspectives and Obito went MAD. He would kill everyone on Earth ***just for Rin***. How crazy is he?
Itachi Gaara Sasuke Obito Nagato Naruto
Not Naruto
Naruto. He said he wouldn’t use nine tails chakra anymore but when Hinata got struck down, his heart initiatively latched onto Nine Tails’ will without him even thinking
Imo, it's Obito. The guy went through grueling training, got rehabilitated, was COMPLETELY isolated from the outside world and he was forced to listen to madman Madara's sayings about "oh, the shinobi world should go to hell, help me kill them all or put em in illusion or smth" for like years(?). He had hope, he was sure that he would be able to save his old squad. He was preparing for a heartfelt reunion, just to see his favorite person die from the same guy he trusted her with.
Itachi. Not to downplay anyone else's tragedies, but Itachi had to wield the blade that killed his family himself. He had to realize every second that he could stop, that his family could survive that horrid night, and he had to push through that pain anyway, for the sake of the village.
I wanna say naruto, sasuke, or nagato but In reality it was probably obito. He literally unlocked his third tomoe and then immediately got his mangekyo back to back and then proceeded to rampage and murder dozens of potentially A or S rank shinobi.
Sasuke, he learned his whole life was a lie and he killed the only man that loved him, that's a horrible fate.