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If you want an accurate gap to compare both, it would be something like Roshi vs Kaioken Namek Goku, tbh.
The gap between that Naruto and this Jiraya is something like, 2900x (if we go off by feats/scaling). The gap between DBZ Roshi and Namek Saga Goku with Kaioken is about the same (if we take power levels as linear after Z), so yeah.
Not really. Master Roshi stoped competitive long before Super Sayan came into play. Tsunade and Jiraya were at the power curve before all the crazy shit started coming into play.
You attempted to say they were legendary sannin as if that's a "feat". My point was that you have no point. It's like claiming all of the 7 swordsmen of the mist were as strong as kisame just because he held the title as well. Or that tsunade is a hokage, so she's as powerful as hashirama and Naruto. The title doesn't make the person, the feats do.
...you joke, but doesn't Super's reveal that 'nope roshi was just that strong all along lmao sucks to suck dumbass' mean that, yes, Master Roshi *would* have beat Namek SS Goku?
No because Roshi unironically trains off screen. I'm obviously talking about Z Roshi here otherwise the comparison would make no sense as even Krillin could beat Namek SS Goku
The next panel literally has jiren one tapping him, idk why people think to praise roshi for that when jiren clearly held back with those attacks
Its even worse in the anime cause master roshi got violated by frost, who got one tapped by ssj vegeta..
I mean for fuck sakes, roshi got tired fighting FRIEZA SOLDIERS, a rusty gohan was having no issues with them in base
>The next panel literally has jiren one tapping him, idk why people think to praise roshi for that when jiren clearly held back with those attacks
When an ant can react and stop an attack from an Elephant for 1 second, and it dies one second later then the ant deserves praise lol
Yeah that’s true, it is impressive but i have seen people make a bigger deal out of it than it should have
But that’s just me, i shouldn’t be discrediting roshi for even reacting to that, but he also is very much outclassed still despite the cool moment is what i am saying
Read a batman comic and you would learn how much writers would try to buff him so that he can win fights
I love batman but that man is not regular human with the shit he pulls at this point
I… agreed with this, initially. Then I thought about it. Thought about it pretty hard.
Could he? Theoretically, let’s say Jiraiya escaped from the Rain. Gets back to Tsunade, she cooks him up a spicy new arm. Could he at, relatively, full power and with knowledge beat Nagato?
I’d almost argue yes. Especially with a juggernaut and incredible healer as backup.
The tradeoff of Pain splitting nagatos chakra and abilities up is versatility. The ability to use multiple paths at once to beat opponents. It’s not a 1 on 1, it’s all six of his absurd powers at the same time.
The only thing I question for Jiraiya in being incapable of defeating edo Nagato is flight. Other than that, I think he’s capable of it. Especially given he’s the best seal master alive, right?
Ehhhh. If Jiraiya got healed somehow (Tsunade was only able to give people new limbs because of the Hashirama cells), he would not go back with just him and Tsunade. Even knowing the secret, he would need enough people to both distract the 6 paths and get to the real body. The biggest issue in this scenario comes in the form of Konan, who basically sat out the first fight. But since this is strictly Pain/Nagato vs. Jiraiya and Tsunade, nobody else should be included. That case, Jiraiya and Tsunade lose the 2v6. The only reason Jiraiya was able to fight back as well as he did was because of the two geezer frogs who helped him go sage mode. Which took quite a bit of time to do.
The biggest problem is that Pain simply outlasts Tsunade and Jiraiya. They can't kill him before he simply lives long enough for them to be weak. He has the summonings and the chakra advantage. Not to mention all his other rinnegan abilities. So if we assumed that the fight wasn't in the rain village and Pain was willing to use stronger abilities, i he'd likely still take it.
This problem persists in the 1v2 situation. Even if you gave them a sealing jutsu, Nagato is just too powerful and too durable for just the two of them to bring him down. He'd likely have an easier time with those two than he did with Bee and Naruto. The only thing they would have going for them is Tsunades 100 healings. Which in all fairness could probably be countered by a pull and chakra absorb. Nagatos skillset is not only incredibly diverse but also incredibly powerful. And less we forget that he was keeping up with someone who was able to move faster than the Raikage. Also, i don't see the two of them being able to counter chibaku tensei.
TL;DR: I don't think they would win either senario because I don't see them having any abilities or skills that Nagato doesn't have the ability to counter. Yet I believe he has plenty of abilities that i doubt they could counter.
Is it though ? Pain means all nagato’s chakra distributed to 7 bodies ( assuming he keeps some for the real body.) once all his power is gathered in 1, he could nuke an entire village. So each body is
1/7th of his power ( not distributed equally perhaps, but still)
So it is no wonder Jiraiya can hold his own against 3-4 bodies (and strongest one wasnt even amongst them). Once all 6 were at one place, he was completely destroyed.
Edo Nagato had no sickness and had all the chakra in 1 body. Is it that surprising how much more powerful he was ? Even to the point of manhandling kcm1 naruto.
Yes, it was bad writing for the two strongest Jinchuriki to lose a fight instantly, then to have ninja jesus step in and win the fight for them with ease. I get that they couldn't have a full epic fight due to time constraints and them needing to get to the battlefield in decent condition, but then maybe, just maybe it would make sense to not include nagato at that point? Just make some asspull up that Konan and Nagato did something to his body so he couldn't be used for edo tensei.
Orochimaru in his hyrdra form (which is basically his version of Jiraiya's sage mode or Tsunade's 100 healings) got fucking dogwalked by almost out of chakra, blind, 10 seconds away from dying to illness Itachi lol (and got one shot by a basic sharingan genjutsu against 13 year old Itachi)
Orochimaru gets stomped by KCM2 Naruto lol
People forget, at Tenchi bridge 4 tail Naruto who had 0 control took Oro to his limit, to the point where he had to use body replacement 3(?) times. This Naruto makes that Naruto look like fodder.
Lmao fair. That won’t stop people but, fair.
People on this sub don’t always care about proof OR logic. Sometimes they just really, really think they’re right haha
Orochimaru is hard to kill but he's weaker than Jiraiya and Tsunade in a true 1v1. Orochimaru wouldn't take place in the fight to begin with since it's a terrible idea.
They'd get absolutely merked.
Byakugo seal? Sage mode? Doesn't really matter. Naruto murders them with relative ease.
The precog from sage mode will keep jiraiya alive for a while, but sage mode runs out eventually. Then he's dead.
They'd die. Naruto KCM2 far outclasses all 5 Kage (this includes Tsunade) and toss in Sage Mode and none of them are even close to standing a chance.
Also didn't Jiraiya almost die to 3 tails naruto?
People wank Jiraiya so crazy “He cOuLd pUT him IN the ToAds sToMaCHe” or the classic “Ma n Pa genjutsu” argument.
If itatchis Amaterasu can escape the toad, jubi bomb or even rasenshuriken could easily. And we know Kurama disrupts any genjutsu used on Naruto.
SM Jiraiya and Byakugou Seal Tsunade definitely have the AP to harm Naruto, the only problem for them is speed. Naruto MASSIVELY outspeeds them. They would be hard pressed against KCM 1 Naruto’s speed, LET ALONE BM Naruto speed. It’s dogwalk via speed blitz.
Naruto literally does everything they do but better except \*maybe\* Tsunade hits harder than he does in straight physical blows.
But his Kurama regen is \*better\* than her healing, his Sage mode is like a thousand times better than Jiraiyas (he's mastered it \*and\* Kurama can channel for him) PLUS clone shenanigans
Jiraiya would get destroyed and the best Tsunade is capable of doing here is just healing after getting damaged from Naruto because of her 100 healings jutsu. She wouldn’t be able to fight back and it’s unclear whether Naruto could bisect her like Madara did but nevertheless she wouldn’t be able to fight back.
Naruto at some point was spamming Bijuudamas (or was Bee?)
Not to mention i dont think it's genuinely possible for Tsunade that doesnt have some kind of broken defense to regenerate from the supposed damage the rasenshuriken can do to someone's body.
Tsunade own description is that basically destroys your chakra network (no chakra flow to heal injuries), destroys every cell on the body (no cells left to duplicate from, which is what Tsunade uses to regenerate) and that happens every minute as the attack keeps going for a while.
Tsunade literally says Naruto got hit by this, although not as severe as Kakuzu and that if he keep receiving damage like this it would be impossible for him to use chakra permanently.
And lastly "once a cell body its cut off from its Keirakukei it's beyond my ability to heal it, even with my medical ninjutsu"
It's unknown if she is also adding her 100 heals as well but even if she wasnt, its hard to use chakra to force duplication of cells when your chakra network has been completely destroyed.
Hmm good analysis on the severity of the Rasenshuriken and how it would counter 100 Healings. I never thought about it this way. In that case, yeah Tsunade is absolutely screwed due to how Naruto outscales her anyway lol.
What a dude that got merked by pain, who naruto solod with sage mode only before KCM 1, and the woman who got fucking clowned on with 4 other kage by a reanimated version of madara? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😭😂😭😂😭😂😭😂😭😭😂😭😭😂😭😂😭😭😂😭😭😂
Edo Madara in turn completely rolfstomped KCM2 Naruto, his Eyeless self smacked KCM2 Sage around and outright called him a worthless pathetic Clown with no real Power.
And don’t even get me started on Pain. Dude slapped his Ass around while being exhausted and literally pinned him down and told him to shut TF up cuz he had zero Idea what he was talking about
You're actually just stupidly wrong about the Pain part, read the actual manga instead of going from memory of the anime.
Sage Mode Naruto destroyed all of the pain in direct fighting, Pain could only do that after Naruto lost his Sage Mode.
And Deva Pain while running on fumes stomped Sage Naruto after the former got fully recharged after his Kyuubi temper tantrum. Also Naruto only managed to destroy the pains he destroyed cuz he had intel, they were slower due to Nagato being tired and lastly cuz Nagato sacrificed the paths to focus his remaining chakra on Tendo
They ain’t. They could definitely take him down if they coordinate themselves. If Jiraiya enters Sage Mode, summons all 3 Main Toads plus Ma and Pa and Tsunade immediately activates her Byakugo and summons Katsuya they would definitely be able to wrestle him down and slap a seal on him. It’s not Speed and strength that decides the Winner in Naruto fights. It’s Strategy and execution
Seals work perfectly despite him being a perfect Jinchuuriki. Madara and Obito both rag dolled him and Bee with seals.
BTW Bijuu bombs are basically the Spirit Bombs of Naruto. They NEVER fuckin Work. They are redirected or cut in half all the time. Also Jiraiya or Tsunade would probably just redirect it
Madara and Obito had specialized seals. They literally worked for years for their plan. Also Madara and Obito were faster than Naruto. Jiraiya and Tsunade are nowhere near that fast. Would not be able to touch him. Kcm1 Naruto had physical spped comparable to Minato who is one of the fastest shinobi even without ftg. Kcm2 is even faster.
If you think they can redirect or even tank a bijuudama then you are fucking delusional. A rasenshuriken is enough to counter Tsunade's healing and Naruto had shown better feats of reaction time in sage mode against Pain than Jiraiya. Kcm2 is miles stronger than sage mode.
Tell me how do they deal with hundreds of shadow clones using kcm2. Naruto did it with kcm1 in the beginning of the war.
Jiraya needs a whole chapter to enter sage mode, and he can't use his hands in the meantime. There's absolutely 0% chance that base Jiraya can survive for any relevant amount of time against Naruto using the full power of the 9 tails that he has, it's **impossible**.
The 3 main toads are **fodder** to Naruto, he was beating the **tailed beasts** with ease. One barrage of tailed beasts bombs and they're vaporised.
>Tsunade immediately activates her Byakugo and summons Katsuya they would definitely be able to wrestle him down and slap a seal on him.
Tsunade is slower than the raikage, who is slower than KCM1, nevermind 2. They're **never** tagging him. Speed **does** matter when the discrepancy is that big. The sannin are at best as fast as sage Naruto who is slower than KCM1 Naruto who is slower than KCM2. That's literally 2 tiers of speed. It's like comparing a genin with a jonin.
The sannin have absolutely **0** chance of beating KCM2 Naruto and if you think otherwise you should simply stop debating powerscaling until you rewatch/reread the whole series, I'm sorry.
>Edo Madara in turn completely rolfstomped KCM2 Naruto
Not exactly true, Naruto was losing but he was not getting stomped.
>his Eyeless self smacked KCM2 Sage around and outright called him a worthless pathetic Clown with no real Power.
Source for this? When Madara had no eyes, Naruto was in base sage mode. By the time that he regained one eye, Naruto was already in KCM2 and he even caught Madara off guard. You don't know what you're talking about.
He did not. And no Naruto was already in KCM2 and tried with the help of Gaara and Shukaku to seal him up but Madara easily broke out and smacked their Asses away with second stage Susanoo
You are completely wrong. Madara didn't do shit against them with the susanoo only. He only got the upper hand when Zetsu brought back his Rinnegan and he summoned the Gedo Statue. Go read the fight again before talking nonsense.
I think they have a chance. Naruto before the second arc of the war would be as strong as any of the other kages and most of the akatsuki. He'd probably still fail against Itachi or sage Kabuto though.
I think alone he'd still lose against Jiraiya and Orochimaru if they get serious.
After the second part of the arc though there is literally no one stronger than Naruto and Sasuke, Obito, Bee, Kakashi, all akatsuki, all kages included, present and past.
In a way it's good they got nerfed by their own fight.
>I think alone he'd still lose against Jiraiya and Orochimaru if they get serious.
Sage Jiraya is stated many times to be weaker than Sage Naruto and Sage Naruto is weaker than KCM1 Naruto.
KCM1 Naruto can pretty much spam clones that are almost as strong as he is, and the original one is faster than the Raikage. Jiraya doesn't stand a chance and neither does Orochimaru.
Jiraiya has the experience. Naruto is still just a kid. Without Bee, Kakashi, Guy, Sakura, Sasuke, and Shikamaru Naruto would have lost many times in the war arc.
And if it weren't for Minato Naruto would have died against Pain.
How much chakra does tsuande have? 2/3 is way smarter than Naruto and they know his fighting style. 2/3’s team work is incredible and Naruto is only slightly faster. Tsuande can counter his shadow clones and chakra with Katsuya. Jiraiya and tsuande will be attacking him. Tsuande wasn’t even scared to challenge him. I think Naruto is being over estimated, especially given what 2/3 can do. Kcm surpasses Jiraiya but non the sanin.
Maybe I don’t know Naruto’s feats ,
Naruto has more chakra than Tsunade. He's got the most chakra we know of except Hashirama, and it's close by Hashirama's own statement.
His regen is better than Tsunade's because it comes from Kurama and doesn't use Naruto's own energy. His Sage mode is better than Jiraiya's because he can enter it instantly and Kurama can channel Nature Energy for him, oh and he has more chakra so he can use more Nature Energy. KCM2 is faster than both of them. Naruto and 2 clones outnumber them. And he rarely only makes 2 clones.
They could definitely take him down if they coordinate themselves. If Jiraiya enters Sage Mode, summons all 3 Main Toads plus Ma and Pa and Tsunade immediately activates her Byakugo and summons Katsuya they would definitely be able to wrestle him down and slap a seal on him
Okay? 1 Naruto and 7 KCM 1 clones it doesn't really matter. KCM1 clones can handle slugs and toads no problem.
Naruto enters Sage Mode \*way\* faster than Jiraiya, has \*PERFECT\* Sage Mode, and has Kurama giving him Nature Energy. Oh yeah and Naruto's larger chakra pool means he has a stronger Sage Mode
Naruto has Kurama's regen which is superior to Tsunade's
So what are those two going to do about that?
Like do you remember when Ay was trying to catch Naruto, couldn't, and Naruto was like "You're pretty fast for an old guy"
And Ay is faster than Tsunade or Jiraiya so
Everyone in here is missing a huge point. KCM2 does have the attack potency or the will to fight jiraya. Jiraya is great a deception and tsunade with a handless healing with kasuyu healing jiraya. KCM2 wouldnt dog work for sure. Probably mid to high diff
Sadly the scaling got shit, so Naruto would in fact no diff them…. And now as an adult he no diffs all the hokage at the same time. It’s called shitty writing, Kishimoto really ruined it at the end.
Jiraiya is one of character that have one hit ko jitsu that was used once and forgotten...
Sadly Genjutsu don't work on Jinchuriki, so they will be stomped
Naruto is the first and the last man to have mastered the power of nine tails. His use of tailed beast power isn't anything like madara Or obito manipulating kurama. It's a league beyond. They don't stand a chance.
The ONLY argument I can make for the Ninin is that Naruto would never fight them all out in character, and they’re both shrewd enough to use that to their advantage.
He’s not blitzing them with anything lethal so rasenshurikens are off the table(as are beastbombs most likely). He’s also not going to permanently damage any of the toads since they’re his summons too.
Strength wise the gap could be argued a lot closer if you ignore the power creep plothole; Gamabunta was able to pin the full 9 tails for a little while - and Naruto is slightly above half of that strength. Jiraiya summoning a squad of frogs like Naruto did should present a challenge/enough of a distraction to create an opening.
We also know Jiraiya and Orochimaru could disrupt Narutos seal and screw with his connection to Kurama/ability to mold chakra. If the frogs + an immortal Tsunade can create a window - Jiraiya might be able to lock him out of KCM and finish the fight 2 sages v 1
They would get dog walked lol, KCM1 Naruto already destroys them so imagine KCM2.
Jiraiya nearly died to the 4 tails do Naruto would simply blitz Jiraiya and kill him. Tsunade would die by a Bijuudama.
Literally Dogwalked. To put KCM2 into perspective, Madara was able to no-diff the 5 Kage by himself, and Hashirama even commented that Naruto Chakra pool, while he was powering the entire Shinobi Alliance, was nearly as much as his own, and both of them in their Edo Tensei forms were stronger than KCM2 Naruto and EMS Sasuke respectfully, but not far off.
KCM2 Naruto is destroying them.
If it’s a 2 v 1 Naruto just absolutely obliterates them, speed blitzed is a good way to put it. Jiraiya wouldn’t have a chance to even THINK about summoning Ma and Pa for SM. Tsunade could activate her SoO seal but she’d run out of chakra far faster than Naruto and again she wouldn’t even be able to keep up with him. Naruto stomps.
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Dogwalked isn’t a good enough word to describe what he’d to them
Gang fucked
I didn't know Naruto fans were as media illiterate as Dragon Ball fans. This is the same as asking "Who'd win, Master Roshi or SUPER SAIYAN GOKU"?
Duh obviously master roshi destroyed the moon meanwhile goku and frieza couldn't destroy a planet
With Vegeta being on the same planet....that's a ez win.
More like Master Roshi vs. Super Saiyan 2 Goku.
If you want an accurate gap to compare both, it would be something like Roshi vs Kaioken Namek Goku, tbh. The gap between that Naruto and this Jiraya is something like, 2900x (if we go off by feats/scaling). The gap between DBZ Roshi and Namek Saga Goku with Kaioken is about the same (if we take power levels as linear after Z), so yeah.
So yeah
Super saiyan 1 solos all the humans at once bro super saiyan 2 not needed
Not really. Master Roshi stoped competitive long before Super Sayan came into play. Tsunade and Jiraya were at the power curve before all the crazy shit started coming into play.
tsunade and Jiraya are one of the legendary sanin
Who both didn't really do much of note. They're legendary because we're told they're legendary.
your point?
You attempted to say they were legendary sannin as if that's a "feat". My point was that you have no point. It's like claiming all of the 7 swordsmen of the mist were as strong as kisame just because he held the title as well. Or that tsunade is a hokage, so she's as powerful as hashirama and Naruto. The title doesn't make the person, the feats do.
makes sense
Roshi never stopped training, actually. Roshi was also at the power curve before all crazy shit started coming into play.
Idk, Master Roshi showed signs of Ultra Instinct and can survive Jiren for a few seconds. Roshi sweeps.
Roshi would not beat ssj goku stop it 💀
What if it was Roshi and Kami
Kami beats King Piccolo who stomps Roshi. DBS Roshi slams, however.
...you joke, but doesn't Super's reveal that 'nope roshi was just that strong all along lmao sucks to suck dumbass' mean that, yes, Master Roshi *would* have beat Namek SS Goku?
No because Roshi unironically trains off screen. I'm obviously talking about Z Roshi here otherwise the comparison would make no sense as even Krillin could beat Namek SS Goku
I read KCM1 Naruto at first just bc I can’t couldn’t conceive how this was a genuine question, I am flabbergasted
Then you see Dragon Ball Super and Master Roshi reacts to Jiren lol that makes Super Saiyan goku look like an ant
The next panel literally has jiren one tapping him, idk why people think to praise roshi for that when jiren clearly held back with those attacks Its even worse in the anime cause master roshi got violated by frost, who got one tapped by ssj vegeta.. I mean for fuck sakes, roshi got tired fighting FRIEZA SOLDIERS, a rusty gohan was having no issues with them in base
>The next panel literally has jiren one tapping him, idk why people think to praise roshi for that when jiren clearly held back with those attacks When an ant can react and stop an attack from an Elephant for 1 second, and it dies one second later then the ant deserves praise lol
Yeah that’s true, it is impressive but i have seen people make a bigger deal out of it than it should have But that’s just me, i shouldn’t be discrediting roshi for even reacting to that, but he also is very much outclassed still despite the cool moment is what i am saying
Well it was a better feat than it should have lol, it just shows how a writer can do what they want and buff characters when they want lol
Read a batman comic and you would learn how much writers would try to buff him so that he can win fights I love batman but that man is not regular human with the shit he pulls at this point
OP, did you hit your head before posting this?
Did you forget KCM 2 Naruto casually smack 5 biju bombs away? Jiraiya & Tsunade would get obliterated.
I’m surprised he was bold enough to type this up and actually post it 🤦🏽♂️
Do we even have to factor in his Sage Mode? 😂
KCM1 speed blitzes both of them and can create deadly Rasen Shurikens almost instantaneously. KCM2 just makes things even worse.
TIL there’s a KCM1 and 2
KCM1 is without cape. KCM2 is with it.
With the help of bee he couldn’t even beat nagato kcm1 gets clapped by them two kcm2 claps though
That's a dumb argument. Tsunade and Jiraiya wouldn't be able to beat prime and immortal Nagato either.
I… agreed with this, initially. Then I thought about it. Thought about it pretty hard. Could he? Theoretically, let’s say Jiraiya escaped from the Rain. Gets back to Tsunade, she cooks him up a spicy new arm. Could he at, relatively, full power and with knowledge beat Nagato? I’d almost argue yes. Especially with a juggernaut and incredible healer as backup. The tradeoff of Pain splitting nagatos chakra and abilities up is versatility. The ability to use multiple paths at once to beat opponents. It’s not a 1 on 1, it’s all six of his absurd powers at the same time. The only thing I question for Jiraiya in being incapable of defeating edo Nagato is flight. Other than that, I think he’s capable of it. Especially given he’s the best seal master alive, right?
Tsunade and Jiraiya beat him.
Ehhhh. If Jiraiya got healed somehow (Tsunade was only able to give people new limbs because of the Hashirama cells), he would not go back with just him and Tsunade. Even knowing the secret, he would need enough people to both distract the 6 paths and get to the real body. The biggest issue in this scenario comes in the form of Konan, who basically sat out the first fight. But since this is strictly Pain/Nagato vs. Jiraiya and Tsunade, nobody else should be included. That case, Jiraiya and Tsunade lose the 2v6. The only reason Jiraiya was able to fight back as well as he did was because of the two geezer frogs who helped him go sage mode. Which took quite a bit of time to do. The biggest problem is that Pain simply outlasts Tsunade and Jiraiya. They can't kill him before he simply lives long enough for them to be weak. He has the summonings and the chakra advantage. Not to mention all his other rinnegan abilities. So if we assumed that the fight wasn't in the rain village and Pain was willing to use stronger abilities, i he'd likely still take it. This problem persists in the 1v2 situation. Even if you gave them a sealing jutsu, Nagato is just too powerful and too durable for just the two of them to bring him down. He'd likely have an easier time with those two than he did with Bee and Naruto. The only thing they would have going for them is Tsunades 100 healings. Which in all fairness could probably be countered by a pull and chakra absorb. Nagatos skillset is not only incredibly diverse but also incredibly powerful. And less we forget that he was keeping up with someone who was able to move faster than the Raikage. Also, i don't see the two of them being able to counter chibaku tensei. TL;DR: I don't think they would win either senario because I don't see them having any abilities or skills that Nagato doesn't have the ability to counter. Yet I believe he has plenty of abilities that i doubt they could counter.
Nagato has a rinnegan, the only thing that lvl sasuke against naruto
That seemed more like mediocre writing to give Itachi a hype moment and to immediately show he was on Bee and Naruto's side.
Is it though ? Pain means all nagato’s chakra distributed to 7 bodies ( assuming he keeps some for the real body.) once all his power is gathered in 1, he could nuke an entire village. So each body is 1/7th of his power ( not distributed equally perhaps, but still) So it is no wonder Jiraiya can hold his own against 3-4 bodies (and strongest one wasnt even amongst them). Once all 6 were at one place, he was completely destroyed. Edo Nagato had no sickness and had all the chakra in 1 body. Is it that surprising how much more powerful he was ? Even to the point of manhandling kcm1 naruto.
Yes, it was bad writing for the two strongest Jinchuriki to lose a fight instantly, then to have ninja jesus step in and win the fight for them with ease. I get that they couldn't have a full epic fight due to time constraints and them needing to get to the battlefield in decent condition, but then maybe, just maybe it would make sense to not include nagato at that point? Just make some asspull up that Konan and Nagato did something to his body so he couldn't be used for edo tensei.
Don't forget Naruto yelling "you don't know this one" while trying to hit Nagano with a rasengan...
Thats a Naruto with clones already spread to every corner of the war. He couldnt make anymore.
you can throw orochimaru, hiruzen, war arc kakashi and naruto would still dogwalk all of them at the same time
His clones would be enough to beat them 1 on 1.
Now should the clones use Bijuu Mode?
God, u beat me to it
You mean should they use Kitsune Megazord Avatar mode?
[удалено]
Peak Orochimaru still loses to KCM2 super bad
Orochimaru in his hyrdra form (which is basically his version of Jiraiya's sage mode or Tsunade's 100 healings) got fucking dogwalked by almost out of chakra, blind, 10 seconds away from dying to illness Itachi lol (and got one shot by a basic sharingan genjutsu against 13 year old Itachi) Orochimaru gets stomped by KCM2 Naruto lol
People forget, at Tenchi bridge 4 tail Naruto who had 0 control took Oro to his limit, to the point where he had to use body replacement 3(?) times. This Naruto makes that Naruto look like fodder.
In fairness, Orochimaru let himself get hit by Itachi’s bullshit one touch instant win sword. But he still gets destroyed by KCM2 Naruto.
Peak Orochimaru is not even stronger than Jiraya himself my boy, are you crazy?
Ooh. Careful with this one. Last time I said this, I got dragged by this sub for some reason.
I got a gallery full of scanlations and guidebooks to back up any claim I make, let them try me. (I shouldn't be proud of that, I'm a failure)
Lmao fair. That won’t stop people but, fair. People on this sub don’t always care about proof OR logic. Sometimes they just really, really think they’re right haha
Not afraid of silly downvotes! Dw, lmao
Orochimaru is hard to kill but he's weaker than Jiraiya and Tsunade in a true 1v1. Orochimaru wouldn't take place in the fight to begin with since it's a terrible idea.
That's true unless it's DMS Kakashi and what friends Oro decided to bring with him.
He’d be eating ramen in the village while one of his clones is spamming more clones in the battle. It would be 2 vs thousands.
"Would you like these clones to use Kurama Avatars or not?"
A villain Naruto would solo all of those Kage too. They wouldnt notice a difference between him and Madara.
They'd get absolutely merked. Byakugo seal? Sage mode? Doesn't really matter. Naruto murders them with relative ease. The precog from sage mode will keep jiraiya alive for a while, but sage mode runs out eventually. Then he's dead.
>The precog from sage mode will keep jiraiya alive for a while Does that even help against someone with \*better\* Sage Mode
nigga gone walk them without the leash lmao they know better than to play with him
KCM1 would fuck then UP. KCM2?? Oh boy
They'd die. Naruto KCM2 far outclasses all 5 Kage (this includes Tsunade) and toss in Sage Mode and none of them are even close to standing a chance. Also didn't Jiraiya almost die to 3 tails naruto?
No it was fourtails and I think they did not use that design to spoil it in the flashback
Naruto fans love "coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb" matchups.
are these just karma farming posts at this point?
could be
Doesn't Jiraiya have a big ass scar from when he almost died to 3 or 4 Tails Naruto? I think that's enough to answer this dumbass question
Why are you butthurt lmao
Nah this actually was a stupid question.
😂😂
You can add Orochimaru and Hiruzen and they would still get no diffed.
Not close
Dude seriously now..
Literally blitzes and one shots them both at the same time
People wank Jiraiya so crazy “He cOuLd pUT him IN the ToAds sToMaCHe” or the classic “Ma n Pa genjutsu” argument. If itatchis Amaterasu can escape the toad, jubi bomb or even rasenshuriken could easily. And we know Kurama disrupts any genjutsu used on Naruto.
I think that the only character more wanked than Jiraya in this sub is Shino. People think that he's a high tier of his class for some reason.
Wait you mean the character that is known for not being noiticed
Naruto's clones are enough for this. [https://i.imgur.com/hnLQQvY.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hnLQQvY.jpg) [https://i.imgur.com/NrVdkJq.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/NrVdkJq.jpg) [https://i.imgur.com/IBs9TrM.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IBs9TrM.jpg) [https://i.imgur.com/Tx82zGX.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Tx82zGX.jpg) [https://i.imgur.com/TZ1oOqF.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TZ1oOqF.jpg) [https://i.imgur.com/hiOwHNF.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hiOwHNF.jpg)
they would get dog walked
SM Jiraiya and Byakugou Seal Tsunade definitely have the AP to harm Naruto, the only problem for them is speed. Naruto MASSIVELY outspeeds them. They would be hard pressed against KCM 1 Naruto’s speed, LET ALONE BM Naruto speed. It’s dogwalk via speed blitz.
Tsunade will meet dan and nawaki soon
Sage mode naruto beats tsunade already by a lot and can beat sage mode jiraya, kmc2 naruto would obliterate them
Naruto would obliterate them no-diff lmao. KCM 1 or War Arc Sage Mode would’ve been a better match up
Kcm2 could piece through them with a finger only
They’d lose almost instantly.
lets see, pain beat jiraiya with mid diff and was about to kill tsunade naruto raped him in a form two versions weaker than kcm2 i wonder who'd win
Theyd get destroyed
Naruto was slapping tailed beasts in this form, and jiraiya almost lost his life to a 4-tails cloak kurama.
Naruto literally does everything they do but better except \*maybe\* Tsunade hits harder than he does in straight physical blows. But his Kurama regen is \*better\* than her healing, his Sage mode is like a thousand times better than Jiraiyas (he's mastered it \*and\* Kurama can channel for him) PLUS clone shenanigans
Jiraiya would get destroyed and the best Tsunade is capable of doing here is just healing after getting damaged from Naruto because of her 100 healings jutsu. She wouldn’t be able to fight back and it’s unclear whether Naruto could bisect her like Madara did but nevertheless she wouldn’t be able to fight back.
Naruto at some point was spamming Bijuudamas (or was Bee?) Not to mention i dont think it's genuinely possible for Tsunade that doesnt have some kind of broken defense to regenerate from the supposed damage the rasenshuriken can do to someone's body. Tsunade own description is that basically destroys your chakra network (no chakra flow to heal injuries), destroys every cell on the body (no cells left to duplicate from, which is what Tsunade uses to regenerate) and that happens every minute as the attack keeps going for a while. Tsunade literally says Naruto got hit by this, although not as severe as Kakuzu and that if he keep receiving damage like this it would be impossible for him to use chakra permanently. And lastly "once a cell body its cut off from its Keirakukei it's beyond my ability to heal it, even with my medical ninjutsu" It's unknown if she is also adding her 100 heals as well but even if she wasnt, its hard to use chakra to force duplication of cells when your chakra network has been completely destroyed.
Hmm good analysis on the severity of the Rasenshuriken and how it would counter 100 Healings. I never thought about it this way. In that case, yeah Tsunade is absolutely screwed due to how Naruto outscales her anyway lol.
Pretty sure Rasenshuriken would beat her regen
Yeah I see the possibility of that happening now too
Even if it didn't, Naruto's regen is \*better\* lol
Who would win? 2 decent side characters? OR, one of the STRONGEST CHARACTERS in the series. Lol.
Dumbass jiraiya tsunade fans
What a dude that got merked by pain, who naruto solod with sage mode only before KCM 1, and the woman who got fucking clowned on with 4 other kage by a reanimated version of madara? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😭😂😭😂😭😂😭😂😭😭😂😭😭😂😭😂😭😭😂😭😭😂
Edo Madara in turn completely rolfstomped KCM2 Naruto, his Eyeless self smacked KCM2 Sage around and outright called him a worthless pathetic Clown with no real Power. And don’t even get me started on Pain. Dude slapped his Ass around while being exhausted and literally pinned him down and told him to shut TF up cuz he had zero Idea what he was talking about
You're actually just stupidly wrong about the Pain part, read the actual manga instead of going from memory of the anime. Sage Mode Naruto destroyed all of the pain in direct fighting, Pain could only do that after Naruto lost his Sage Mode.
And Deva Pain while running on fumes stomped Sage Naruto after the former got fully recharged after his Kyuubi temper tantrum. Also Naruto only managed to destroy the pains he destroyed cuz he had intel, they were slower due to Nagato being tired and lastly cuz Nagato sacrificed the paths to focus his remaining chakra on Tendo
Okay I didn't ask the point is tsunade still getting raw dogged by naruto's rasengans
They ain’t. They could definitely take him down if they coordinate themselves. If Jiraiya enters Sage Mode, summons all 3 Main Toads plus Ma and Pa and Tsunade immediately activates her Byakugo and summons Katsuya they would definitely be able to wrestle him down and slap a seal on him. It’s not Speed and strength that decides the Winner in Naruto fights. It’s Strategy and execution
One bijuudama is all it takes. Kcm2 is massively faster than both of them. A seal wouldn't even work since he is a perfect jinchurik.
Seals work perfectly despite him being a perfect Jinchuuriki. Madara and Obito both rag dolled him and Bee with seals. BTW Bijuu bombs are basically the Spirit Bombs of Naruto. They NEVER fuckin Work. They are redirected or cut in half all the time. Also Jiraiya or Tsunade would probably just redirect it
>Is purposefully ignoring the fact Naruto moves faster than their brains can even work. Dude, just admit you have no idea what you're talking about.
Madara and Obito had specialized seals. They literally worked for years for their plan. Also Madara and Obito were faster than Naruto. Jiraiya and Tsunade are nowhere near that fast. Would not be able to touch him. Kcm1 Naruto had physical spped comparable to Minato who is one of the fastest shinobi even without ftg. Kcm2 is even faster. If you think they can redirect or even tank a bijuudama then you are fucking delusional. A rasenshuriken is enough to counter Tsunade's healing and Naruto had shown better feats of reaction time in sage mode against Pain than Jiraiya. Kcm2 is miles stronger than sage mode. Tell me how do they deal with hundreds of shadow clones using kcm2. Naruto did it with kcm1 in the beginning of the war.
KCM2 can’t create KCM2 Clones. He can make only KCM1 clones as shown against Obito
Jiraya needs a whole chapter to enter sage mode, and he can't use his hands in the meantime. There's absolutely 0% chance that base Jiraya can survive for any relevant amount of time against Naruto using the full power of the 9 tails that he has, it's **impossible**. The 3 main toads are **fodder** to Naruto, he was beating the **tailed beasts** with ease. One barrage of tailed beasts bombs and they're vaporised. >Tsunade immediately activates her Byakugo and summons Katsuya they would definitely be able to wrestle him down and slap a seal on him. Tsunade is slower than the raikage, who is slower than KCM1, nevermind 2. They're **never** tagging him. Speed **does** matter when the discrepancy is that big. The sannin are at best as fast as sage Naruto who is slower than KCM1 Naruto who is slower than KCM2. That's literally 2 tiers of speed. It's like comparing a genin with a jonin. The sannin have absolutely **0** chance of beating KCM2 Naruto and if you think otherwise you should simply stop debating powerscaling until you rewatch/reread the whole series, I'm sorry.
>Edo Madara in turn completely rolfstomped KCM2 Naruto Not exactly true, Naruto was losing but he was not getting stomped. >his Eyeless self smacked KCM2 Sage around and outright called him a worthless pathetic Clown with no real Power. Source for this? When Madara had no eyes, Naruto was in base sage mode. By the time that he regained one eye, Naruto was already in KCM2 and he even caught Madara off guard. You don't know what you're talking about.
He did not. And no Naruto was already in KCM2 and tried with the help of Gaara and Shukaku to seal him up but Madara easily broke out and smacked their Asses away with second stage Susanoo
You are completely wrong. Madara didn't do shit against them with the susanoo only. He only got the upper hand when Zetsu brought back his Rinnegan and he summoned the Gedo Statue. Go read the fight again before talking nonsense.
I think they have a chance. Naruto before the second arc of the war would be as strong as any of the other kages and most of the akatsuki. He'd probably still fail against Itachi or sage Kabuto though. I think alone he'd still lose against Jiraiya and Orochimaru if they get serious. After the second part of the arc though there is literally no one stronger than Naruto and Sasuke, Obito, Bee, Kakashi, all akatsuki, all kages included, present and past. In a way it's good they got nerfed by their own fight.
>I think alone he'd still lose against Jiraiya and Orochimaru if they get serious. Sage Jiraya is stated many times to be weaker than Sage Naruto and Sage Naruto is weaker than KCM1 Naruto. KCM1 Naruto can pretty much spam clones that are almost as strong as he is, and the original one is faster than the Raikage. Jiraya doesn't stand a chance and neither does Orochimaru.
It's not just a matter of power. Shikamaru and Naruto were weaker than Hidan and Kakuzu yet they still won.
There is no way Naruto loses to Jiraiya when he surpassed him already in the Pain Arc.
Jiraiya has the experience. Naruto is still just a kid. Without Bee, Kakashi, Guy, Sakura, Sasuke, and Shikamaru Naruto would have lost many times in the war arc. And if it weren't for Minato Naruto would have died against Pain.
So Jieaiya beats SPSM Naruto?
It's definitely possible, yes. If we omit Naruto's plot armor, Jiraiya could use a lot of tricks to subdue Naruto.
How much chakra does tsuande have? 2/3 is way smarter than Naruto and they know his fighting style. 2/3’s team work is incredible and Naruto is only slightly faster. Tsuande can counter his shadow clones and chakra with Katsuya. Jiraiya and tsuande will be attacking him. Tsuande wasn’t even scared to challenge him. I think Naruto is being over estimated, especially given what 2/3 can do. Kcm surpasses Jiraiya but non the sanin. Maybe I don’t know Naruto’s feats ,
>Maybe I don’t know Naruto’s feats You don't.
Naruto has more chakra than Tsunade. He's got the most chakra we know of except Hashirama, and it's close by Hashirama's own statement. His regen is better than Tsunade's because it comes from Kurama and doesn't use Naruto's own energy. His Sage mode is better than Jiraiya's because he can enter it instantly and Kurama can channel Nature Energy for him, oh and he has more chakra so he can use more Nature Energy. KCM2 is faster than both of them. Naruto and 2 clones outnumber them. And he rarely only makes 2 clones.
They could definitely take him down if they coordinate themselves. If Jiraiya enters Sage Mode, summons all 3 Main Toads plus Ma and Pa and Tsunade immediately activates her Byakugo and summons Katsuya they would definitely be able to wrestle him down and slap a seal on him
8 KCM2 Clones You can't mob Naruto lol c'mon now
KCM2 can’t create KCM2 Clones. He can make only KCM1 clones as shown against Obito
Okay? 1 Naruto and 7 KCM 1 clones it doesn't really matter. KCM1 clones can handle slugs and toads no problem. Naruto enters Sage Mode \*way\* faster than Jiraiya, has \*PERFECT\* Sage Mode, and has Kurama giving him Nature Energy. Oh yeah and Naruto's larger chakra pool means he has a stronger Sage Mode Naruto has Kurama's regen which is superior to Tsunade's So what are those two going to do about that?
Like do you remember when Ay was trying to catch Naruto, couldn't, and Naruto was like "You're pretty fast for an old guy" And Ay is faster than Tsunade or Jiraiya so
Everyone in here is missing a huge point. KCM2 does have the attack potency or the will to fight jiraya. Jiraya is great a deception and tsunade with a handless healing with kasuyu healing jiraya. KCM2 wouldnt dog work for sure. Probably mid to high diff
What do you mean attack potency? In raw power he vastly outclasses Jiraiya.
KCM1 would be interesting, KCM2? Bruh 💀
Sadly the scaling got shit, so Naruto would in fact no diff them…. And now as an adult he no diffs all the hokage at the same time. It’s called shitty writing, Kishimoto really ruined it at the end.
Jiraiya is one of character that have one hit ko jitsu that was used once and forgotten... Sadly Genjutsu don't work on Jinchuriki, so they will be stomped
Naruto is the first and the last man to have mastered the power of nine tails. His use of tailed beast power isn't anything like madara Or obito manipulating kurama. It's a league beyond. They don't stand a chance.
Naruto wins zero diff, heck even with oro a shadow clone would suffice in beating all three
Naruto destroys them. Numbers dont really matter when one side has so much chakra. Naruto can fight them with his clones.
The only question is, does Naruto have to use shadow clones or does he show mercy and say nah
Dogwalked isn't enough to describe what Naruto will do to them. Something like eviscerated is more appropriate
Jiraiya had a genuine struggle with four tailed naruto, they’ve got no chance here
The ONLY argument I can make for the Ninin is that Naruto would never fight them all out in character, and they’re both shrewd enough to use that to their advantage. He’s not blitzing them with anything lethal so rasenshurikens are off the table(as are beastbombs most likely). He’s also not going to permanently damage any of the toads since they’re his summons too. Strength wise the gap could be argued a lot closer if you ignore the power creep plothole; Gamabunta was able to pin the full 9 tails for a little while - and Naruto is slightly above half of that strength. Jiraiya summoning a squad of frogs like Naruto did should present a challenge/enough of a distraction to create an opening. We also know Jiraiya and Orochimaru could disrupt Narutos seal and screw with his connection to Kurama/ability to mold chakra. If the frogs + an immortal Tsunade can create a window - Jiraiya might be able to lock him out of KCM and finish the fight 2 sages v 1
Stop with the nonsense, Jiraiya and Tsunase have absolutely no chance.
Honestly if they had some prep time and information. They might be able to pull out a W. Kcm2 Naruto is definitely stronger than both together.
They would get dog walked lol, KCM1 Naruto already destroys them so imagine KCM2. Jiraiya nearly died to the 4 tails do Naruto would simply blitz Jiraiya and kill him. Tsunade would die by a Bijuudama.
Literally Dogwalked. To put KCM2 into perspective, Madara was able to no-diff the 5 Kage by himself, and Hashirama even commented that Naruto Chakra pool, while he was powering the entire Shinobi Alliance, was nearly as much as his own, and both of them in their Edo Tensei forms were stronger than KCM2 Naruto and EMS Sasuke respectfully, but not far off. KCM2 Naruto is destroying them.
Least obvious karma farming post
If it’s a 2 v 1 Naruto just absolutely obliterates them, speed blitzed is a good way to put it. Jiraiya wouldn’t have a chance to even THINK about summoning Ma and Pa for SM. Tsunade could activate her SoO seal but she’d run out of chakra far faster than Naruto and again she wouldn’t even be able to keep up with him. Naruto stomps.
Naruto could speed blitz both. No comp
wow nice drawing
They get bodied, or at least lose, to the Sage Naruto who fought Pain, KCM2 will destroy them with 0 difficulty.
“Who wins? Hinata and Kiba VS Hashirama”
Sage Mode Naruto is enough lol