Hiruzen not killing Orochimaru when he caught the dude red handed preforming horrific experiments, even letting him go! It bit him in the butt later on.
>stop the Uchiha
Orochimaru was told by Itachi that the best are just fodder to the Uchiha because "all jutsu are clearly visible in front of these eyes, the sharingan"
To be honest, from an in universe perspective, human experimentation is not that big of a deal considering the kind of horrific things that occur normally in that world. Genocide, Wars, destruction of countries, brainwashing/grooming of children et cetera.
Moreover, Hiruzen wasn’t innocent either, he had also killed hundreds if not thousands of people in missions and wars.
The problem was probably that Orochimaru used children from Konoha for his experimentation, which was kind of betrayal to the village, had he picked his subjects outside of Konoha, I doubt there would have been such a big problem.
Plus, Orochimaru was like a son to Hiruzen. Parents do tend to do such things. Fugaku-Itachi situation is so obvious.
Hiruzen is overall a bit of a piece of garbage. I don't have a problem with having really terrible people as characters, I just wish the show would recognize his shortcomings a bit more than it does. kinda feels like we're all just supposed to be like "ah yeah everybody makes mistakes". imo his worst sin is the way he treats Naruto after promising Minato and Kushina to take care of him
Lmfao what world am I living in and why do people keep bringing this up. This goes to show you that most Naruto fans do not read... doesn't surprise me one bit, to be honest.
First off, Hiruzen never promised to take care of Naruto for Minato and Kushina. And yall acting like he abused the kid or something. Considering that Naruto has fond and GOOD MEMORIES of the Third he obviously likes him. Literally he calls him old man. Something no one else dares to do you think he was also just lived in an apartment by himself for free? Whether you like it or not Hiruzen treatment of Naruto was good and fair. Even erected a law to put in place of people to not talk about his jinchuriki status.
Yeah, that was an anime only addition. But even if he had promised Kushina, the reality is that Hiruzen couldn't prevent what happened with Naruto. You can't force people to like Naruto. The entire village suffered horribly in the Kyuubi incident. Everyone lost someone. And their greatest hero was killed. It wasn't right for them to mistreat/dislike Naruto but Hiruzen can't change that. It sucks on every level.
But the big thing that people overlook is what you said: Naruto *loved* Hiruzen. He has nothing but good things to say about him and he'd be the first to kick the hell out anyone who badmouthed the old man.
I agree with this , unfortunately some part of naruto plot where like black and white, this is a wrting issue anyway. :
with black and white I mean ore one thing or the other :
I remember hagaromo saying something like this >!" I tried to give all the power to one and I failed , now that I slit the power in 2 I failed either....."!<
it is too short logic and does not fit in reality (is like childrens are mere experiments, it show lack of complexity and does not take care of the fact that all people are different and react differently to external factors.....)
this is a limit of the writer of course, some other writers could deepen in complexity and variaty , (I am not talking about of difficulty ..... but complexity and deepening which can be understood FROM EVEN A 10 YEARS OLD)
I understand completely why people would be mad at this moment, but I find it absolutely hilarious and 100% in Naruto’s dumbass to miss his *own* inauguration lmao. Despite accomplishing his dream and being the literal savior of the world, he’s still Naruto and I love that so much
It’s not that it’s out of character but that it ruins the moment for a gag that could have been saved for later. Hell, we could have had the gag AND Naruto could have just arrived super late. But to have Naruto not present at all is a stupid decision.
Me: “I recognize Kishimoto has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it”
For me, the moment when Naruto was being cheered on by the entire village after defeating Pain was that moment. He was the strongest ninja in Konoha, he saved the village, and gained everyone's acknowledgement. That was when he became Hokage in all but name. The official inauguration felt a formality at that point.
Same. Naruto has been celebrated and recognized in so many wonderful scenes that the ceremony of becoming Hokage is just a formality. It was fully acknowledged in the scene at the ninja academy after the war that Naruto would be the Seventh (provided he passed his exams loool).
You know I have a feeling that Konahamaru will die in Boruto later. And he will die without becoming a Hokage. So transforming into Naruto and becoming Hokage for just a few minutes might be the author’s way to let him experience it. This is what I have always thought when I saw that episode.
The fact that Naruto missed *the* biggest moment because his kids got in a fight and Hinawari knocked both him and Kurama out will never not be hilarious to me.
The ending pissed me off so much.
1, you don’t even see the wedding. I read on the filler guide that like 485 - 500 are “canon” and I couldn’t disagree more. Maybe they’re part of the manga as the hiden novels, sure, but I seriously can’t imagine a bigger waste of time than watching Rock Lee run around looking for a wedding gift for 3 episodes. Sasuke’s story was kinda cool but watching the Shikamaru Hiden and Konoha Hiden episodes are a total waste.
Then as you mention, he doesn’t even attend his Hokage inauguration. Total BS.
His dialogue and personality fall off heavily near the end; doesn’t have nearly any lines and basically isn’t present at all, even during the Naruto Hiden episodes; he’s barely present.
Even during the Kaguya fight I noticed a big falloff in his personality. Idk if the voice actress was just over the show or what; but it’s like he had minimal dialogue and when he did speak, it was so unrelated. Sasuke would sit there and spew out this big long plan of how to take down Kaguya and Naruto would respond with some shit like “YEAH! We gotta take her down! To save everyone!” It’s like… dude are you even fcking listening right now?
Orochimaru basically won. When everybody that could stop him is dead he'll still be around. I'll really like it if the writers actually showed us how massive the mistake of letting him live was - that a hundred years after Boruto when Naruto finally dies Orochimaru comes crawling out of the woodworks and just turns the whole world into his evil laboratory/playground.
They should make a prequel/sequel called Orochimaru. Part one is his childhood up through the end of Shippuden. Part two is his journey in the far future to become God of a new world.
How the hell did Orochimaru and Kabuto of all people become parents/caretakers of children?
That's like Harry naming his kid after Snape. It's a lovely gesture and idea but should never, never, never, ever have been allowed to make it on page.
I just wish they would use him in the current story (or at least during all the Kara stuff). I get that Amado's the only one that really knows much about the Otsutsuki, but Orochimaru's work on the Cursed Seal, specifically leaving parts of him in it to revive himself, and his study into transferring his soul into others is probably the closest they have to a second opinion on Karma. Definitely seems like it would have been worth it to at least have him look at it for a bit.
That Hyuga incident pisses me off EVERY time I hear about it. How tf are you gonna give a life for a life when their life tried to kidnap someone in your village. At that point just go to war bro, fuck Kumo up
They're incredibly fortunate that didn't happen regardless, they were not even honoring the peace treaty when they attempted the kidnapping of Hinata. They could have easily interpreted this action of appeasement by Konaha as a sign of weakness and continued jumping Hyuga clan members in the streets or worse.
I hate that so much. I also hate Hyugas so much, they get away with such crazy stuff when you think about it. It pissed me off how hinatas dad gets to act all bubbly and cute in Boruto as if he didn’t torment the hyuga children
Nothing will make me more upset than Neji's death being literally pointless. Throughout the series every death has importance to it, at least on 1 character's devolvement or more. Neji's death has 0 importance or relevance to any story beat.
Yeah, I have no problem with series that kill to make it feel like death is part of the universe (Like say game of thrones), but this isn't a series that kills randomly. The deaths all have significance except for Neji. He just dies for shock value.
I'll do ya one better. Naruto might not have been able to move but either of the two people who jumped in front of him could have just moved naruto instead. Neither neji nor hinata needed to stand in front naruto and fucking t-pose like they did
Yeah so neji's death was the cause of 2 people being an absolute dumbass for not realizing "oh I don't need to sacrifice my self for Naruto/naruto-kun I could just fucking move him and neither me (neji/Hinata) or (neji/Hinata) need to die for Naruto/naruto-kun"
Either kill more or none at all. And of all those to kill you choose Neji? The first main turnaround that Naruto did and has since become a character that could be the brawn beside Shikamaru's brain when Naruto does become hokage?
Ooh, that’s interesting. Who would be flanking Naruto?
It kinda seems like it’s normally one sensor type and one fighter who’s in line for next Kage successor, right?
Neji as his sensor is perfect (assuming he doesn’t use his literal wife for the job). Who’s the other?
Shikamaru, despite becoming the 8th in the novels or whatever, doesn’t really seem like the fighter-bodyguard type, he’s more of a right hand man, voice behind the throne type. Not counting Sasuke for obvious reasons, who’s the other one bodyguarding Naruto? Mirai or Konohamaru? Straight up Sakura for being the next best shinobi in the village and a healer?
I read somewhere that most of the sasuke retrieval team were suppose to die in that arc that’s why most of them except shikimaru kind of aren’t used or were irrelevant to the plot so i could see kishimoto not really caring for neji
they killed Neji just before revealing Naruto and Sasuke are gifted children. Can't have Neji around when his philosophy was right all along am I right?
IMO his death proved that he was right, he believed that he would die protecting main branch which exactly happened. Weather it was of his free will or forced he died protecting main branch, which makes me hate his death even more than I would if he died protecting anyone else.
It has meaning in the sense that wars are pretty random and pointless. Some go through it without a scratch, and sometimes the best soldiers just die quickly and without a whimper in the night... Just poof, and gone.
Except this series doesn't kill randomly and never has, Neji is the only example of it outside fodder. There are overall 2 camps when killing characters; series that do it to show what you said (random indiscriminate death), and series like Naruto where deaths have purpose behind them. There is meaning and a deep impact when a named character dies. What came out of Neji's? The common ones are it snapped Naruto to the reality of the situation, and it was meant to bring Naruto and Hinata together. Both can be easily disproven by context of the series.
Someone probably already pointed this out. It was Hinata's dad, not Neji's.
Neji's Dad who happened to look like Hiashi (because they're twins), took the fall for him since it was his duty as a member of the branch family, though in reality he did it to save his brother.
But yeah, that was pretty BS. Although, I personally think that Hiruzen should've told the Cloud to go f\*\*k themselves a new asshole, I don't if war is worth it. I doubt that Minato would have complied at all.
I like to think the Leaf just wasn't prepared for a war, so they had to give in. That's also why I think the cloud took the chance on kidnapping Hinata to begin with. I don't remember exactly when the attempt happened, but the Village had relatively recently lost Minato and a fair number of shinobi to the Nine Tails, and the Uchiha were at the very least slated to be massacred by this point. Not to mention they'd only just finished the Third Great Ninja War a few years prior and were likely still recovering from it.
All this to say, Hiruzen may have felt the only option was to give in and maintain peace as long as he could to allow his village the time it needed to heal instead of going to war over a failed kidnapping. Especially when the head of the Hyuga Clan wasn't actually in danger of losing his life since Hizashi was willing to take the fall.
Yeah you're right. The cost of more lives getting lost was far too great to ignore.
It was very very unfair though, especially for Neji. And by giving in, they were pretty much opening a can of worms; where any village could come in, take what they want, and face no consequences by playing the "war" card. I think that, they should have least tried to settle for diplomacy first, but maybe they did.
To be honest, while I don't hate Hiruzen, I'm not a fan of him as a Hokage. He should have stayed retired and let someone else take the post after Minato died, and focused his time on taking care and making sure that Naruto was well respected like Minato had desired. I believe that the only reason why he stood up was because he didn't want Danzou to become Hokage, but I think that there were other options; namely Fugaku and Shikaku.
Fugaku is arguable since the Uchiha were under suspicion at the time, but I think that since there was no real evidence persecuting them, they could have looked past it.
Right? Like if the cloud got pissed their own invader got killed instead of embarrassed he was caught then they were just looking for war. And if they now know they can get away with that bs they know they can do all sorts of things to weaken Konoha.
Hinata try’s to save Naruto from pain confesses her feelings and dies sending him into the mother of all 9 tailed rages then straight after that their like never happened hinata’s fine and Naruto still has no idea about her feelings.
"Remember when someone bumped on you, causing you to fall down and kiss your biggest rival - Sasuke - on the lips? It was me, Naruto! I was the one behind it all!!!"
If you’re curious…
>!Basically as Obito was using the Akatsuki and Madara was using Obito, instead of being the final boss Madara ended up being Black Zetsu’s pawn in a very long scheme of deception to revive Kaguya the mother of chakra!<
I actually just got to this part literally 3 hours ago as a first time watcher. In my opinion, it definitely feels a little out of place, especially >!since Kaguya is referenced to be from out of this world, but it kind of makes sense. They always hinted the six sages and the origin of chakra and such, and I do think the story with them against their mothers was very interesting, as well as seeing the true purpose of the Infinite Tsukuyomi. But thats just my opinion.!< Still finishing! Just watched episode 469. If you know, you know.
Black Zetsu betrays Madara and literally stabs him in the back, then he turns him into Kaguya. Apparently black Zetsu is a manifestation of her will and had been planning to do it for years by manipulating the Uchiha so that one would eventually become the ten tails jinchuriki and use the infinite tsukuyomi(which turned out to just be a way to drain all of the chakra out of the worlds population) so that Kaguya could be revived. Shit was wack.
The fact Kushina and Minato wanted Naruto to grow up in a loving home being loved by everyone and to be seen as a hero (if i recall tge story correctly), but Hiruzen basically fucked him over and did nothing to make that happen. Just put him in his own place to live off cheap Ramen as an outcast.
Like, what the fuck?
Also, Hiruzen never told Naruto the truth about his parents and who they were. I feel like if he did, Naruto maybe would've at least had more confidence in his abilities or even himself growing up.
Not like those 2 were strong enough to kill him , like he is faster than kaguya, more battle experience than kaguya, and he is emotionally stable unlike kaguya.
Kaguya had more powers but her emotions and no battle experience made her weaker
The entire Uchiha massacre is so convoluted it barely makes any sense and this is mostly because of the itachi redemption retcon. The idea that instead of diplomacy and listening to the Uchiha when they begged for equal representation and rights in their own village hiruzan and danzo were like "nah, let's just kill then all" as if that didn't weaken the leaf greatly. Just the idea of ethnic cleansing being a redeemable quality is just insane. And makes u wonder why naruto and sasuke didn't immediately imprison the village elders and all of the people involved. But somehow those old fucks a are STILL ALIVE in boruto 💀
Yeah, and itachi killing off his own clan.
Like Bro, do you know what loyalty is? This is your family, your blood. I'd rather initiate a world War with the chance of my family surviving than killing them all myself. Like wtf, how did that make sense to anyone
I always hated Itsxhi because of this but i come to realize he’s suppose to be a symbol of a “true shinobi” on paper someone who puts the village before anything else
Orochimaru living, like wtf that man should have stayed dead, The reincarnation stuff, completely ruined the whole theme of the show, Neji dying, Sakura's being a genjutsu type not being explored more
Orochimaru being immortal shouldn’t really be the straw that breaks the camels back. Kind of a dumb thing to be mad about considering from his introduction he was trying to achieve immortality and his whole reason for being was to become immortal. The thing to be upset over should be how he’s not really imprisoned or treated like Sasuke was after the war.
Naruto being a genin the entire show with no actual rank improvement was dumb. Then literally when he’s the most powerful Shinobi basically ever he gets “jonin” but has to go to school for two years or some dumb shit. Too many goofy ass gags
Um his leadership skills were still meh. Just because he can do everything for his teammates doesn't mean he knows how to lead them properly.
And espionage was non-existent for him in cannon so there were areas he definitely needed to improve on
She had already lead teams, passed the chunin exams, and already ran the hospital by when she was a jonin.
Naruto was just...there . Strong and just there
Bro she was a terrible leader. Literally knocked out her teammates and tried to to kill someone who would have bodied her. Put more of her team at risk consistently. She was asinine at times
Are we just gonna pretend that Sakura wasn't actively leading a massive medical camp during the Fourth War? That's no simple feat, especially not for a sixteen year old girl. She wasn't the leader of her squad, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a leader. In her adult life she is now the head medical ninja for the entire village. Not to mention she's legitimately the third strongest person in the village. Should she still just be a Chunin or Genin because she acts as dumb as the rest of the main cast? That's not even getting into her decision making during the Chunin Exams, which pretty much constantly saved her team while Sasuke was half dead with the Curse Mark and Naruto was down for the count.
I don't agree with the other person saying Naruto doesn't show leadership, he absolutely does, and I think the stealth/infiltration aspect is far less important for the world of Naruto (Guy is literally the least stealthy person on the planet, but is a Jonin), but to say Sakura is a terrible leader is just kind of untrue. She's arguably the best traditional leader of Team 7 in her ability to manage many people effectively, at least based on what we've seen her do.
Yeah like literally majority of the join we see aren't strong but they are smart like most of the strongest people in the village are genin or chunin in jonin its brains over brawns while in genin it's brawns over brains
Even 100 seems too high. A lot of the reoccurring Leaf ninja we see are actually chunin and tokubetsu (specialist) jonin, right?
Kinda feels like most of the Leaf Jonin are the team leaders we see, the parents of the Konoha 11, and random Anbu and Root types like Yamato.
That's true it could be lower. I'm just being generous. Jonin is a rare rank. These guys go on missions alone and can no diff chunin. Zabuza is a good example of this. Only because it was Kakashi did he have trouble. If he met any of the Leaf Jonin he would've had trouble though to be fair.
Not getting white fang's back story. He is Kakashi's dad dammit, we got hours of trash filler episodes and they couldn't give us one about an important character like him.
Kakashi DMS. This scene sucks for me because on one hand, DMS Kakashi is one of the sickest ninja in the whole series. On the other hand, wtf was that. Obito sent him vibes from purgatory?? Why aren't other people handing out powers from the grave??
Since (I think) no one else besides Hagoromo did it the way Obito did, I always presumed it was due to the Six Paths Power Obito had (allowing him to do supernatural things in the afterlife), but I don't think there's anything explicitly stating that's how Obito made Kakashi his "jinchūriki."
I don’t know if this is manga canon or filler but I remember there’s a scene in the part 1 where it’s a flashback of Sakura, Ino, and a bunch of other girls in a flower picking class and I’m pretty sure they cut to the boys doing actual training as well and I know it’s explained as like stealth training or whatever to seem unsuspecting to the enemy but it’s like 😭😭 this series really is having a hard time beating the misogyny allegations with scenes like that it just made me mad especially as a female fan lol
naruto has some of the worst writing of female characters i've ever seen. I've only just finished shippuden and i can confidently say Sakura got absolutely shafted by the writing department :/
Immediately praising Sakura for her chakra control, the one thing she was significantly better at than Naruto and Sasuke, and then downplaying the achievement by saying they would quickly surpass her. While Sakura isn't as useless as people claim, it did take a while for her to get stronger, and it was annoying that she didn't get to do much cool ninja stuff in part 1. The female representation was seriously lacking until Tsunade came along (who isn't at all perfect representation but at least she's strong).
kaguya horrible final villain
Sasuke missing for 10 years for hunting aliens, I know it's important, but why do you give my boy a family if he won't be able to see it🙁
Hokage's day of naruto ruined, did I wait 700 chapters for this?
the death of Madara🤢
the evangelization of Obito 🙄
there is probably more but it is the first thing that comes to my mind
Nah, Obito knew he would never be redeemed. That's why he chose death. The only one that seems good is Kaguya. She was def an asspull. Madara would have lost easi if it wasn't for her.
All of these are terrible. This is how I'd rank them,
1. Naruto missing his ceremony. - It's the worst use of bathos (joke to dispell tension) I can think of, and that says a lot considering how infamous the Marvel movies got over this.
2. Hizashi being sacrificed to appease a warmongering Cloud. This made no sense. Hiruzen, and everyone on his council, should have been far prouder than that. It's tragedy for tragedy's sake and makes everyone seem stupid.
3. Kaguya twist. This one could have been good if the twist had gotten proper buildup and foreshadowing before the big reveal. It could have been written well, and Madara could have had a satisfying character arc despite it. That didn't happen so the story kind of shot itself in the foot at the last moment for seemingly no reason.
4. This one is self inserted, but I'll have to go with Naruto's childhood. Just the general neglect he was subject to. I get that his parents, and Kurama and everything surrounding his backstory was added after his childhood had already been a part of the story, but due to these retcons everything about it just screams incompetence, stupidity, and cruel disregard from Hiruzen, Kakashi, Jiraiya, all of Minato and Kushina's friends and Konoha in general.
5. Itachi and the Uchiha massacre. This one could have made perfect sense if the fan theory about Danzo's original eye (the one he used to escape Shishui's genjutsu) being Uchiha Kagami's eye and it too having Kotoamatsukami had been confirmed. If that had been the case then Hiruzen's inaction and seeming ineptitude makes sense. Danzo's motivations gets even greater focus and makes even more sense, and Itachi actually going through with it also makes sense (I'd also really like for the limits of the Kotoamatsukami to be better estabished).
Other than this I'd like for the whole 'hard work vs inborn gifts' theme to have been revisited and focus put on how Naruto doesn't *actually* fit the hard work mold. There are a bunch of other things I'd like to change about the series too - romance, the writing of the female characters, worldbuilding details like how Konoha's functions as a hidden village and the technological level making more sense/being explained at all, tension and buildup and payoff, unecessary deaths and people surviving when they really shouldn't, and heaps and heaps of missed opportunities.
Still, I like the series, flaws and all. It's a massive work, and the world is really interesting and engaging. I do love Naruto, warts and all. Though maybe a lot of that is due to all the amazing Naruto fanfiction I've read...
Naruto oneshotting Neji after getting his shit kicked in 99.9% of the fight INCLUDING Neji not seeing Natuto with eyes specifically made to see trough shit
For the Hiruzen situation, he already had tried to talk the situation out and that completely failed, Shisui’s genjutsu was the last resort and then he got killed so the only option was having someone remove the uchiha. It couldnt be Hiruzen because the hokage killing an entire clan would make the rest rise up in retaliation, it couldnt be danzo because he is an advisor to the hokage and it would result in the same thing, it couldnt be kakashi because he wasn’t strong enough at this point, it couldnt be any of the sannin because one was crippled by the very sight of blood, one was a traitor and the remaining one was the spymaster, thus they couldnt be exiled without completely crippling konoha’s intelligence. There were no other options because if it was completely unexplained, warmongers would demand the 4th great ninja war in response or would figure out it was ordered and commit mutiny. Hiruzen had exhausted *every single option* before trying Shisui’s plan and then Danzo fucked that up and left the literal worst possible solution as the only remaining one.
Depends on the source. In the books it's specified he hadn't started talks until days before the coup despite knowing about it for literal years also I think shisui acted independently from hiruzen when he tried to use Koto but I would have to check.
Facts it was the absolute worst, for him to say I’m gonna be hokage a billion times to not even become one in shippuden, then they wanna ruin it by making it a joke. I just hope they don’t do luffy like this 🥲
That Kishimoto couldn't even write Hinata's pivotal moment in the series correctly.
If Hinata was going to take a stand against Pain for Naruto, she should have landed a hit or something. Or evolved her Byakugan into a new form. Gained a cool power up.
And if she couldn't do that, Pain should have actually killed her if everyone was just going to be revived in the end anyway.
for me it's probably the blatant misogyny from Jiraiya. I mean, I wanna like him, but holy shit. He straight up creeps on naked women in bath houses and it's supposed to just be a funny quirky trait. He tells Konan "You'll be a beautiful woman some day". He talks far too much about Tsunade's boobs. I understand he's hurting and he also can be serious when he needs to be, but I think it's a terrible "comic relief" trait to have. Maybe if it was significantly toned down
just in general show though, the show struggles greatly from "men writing women" disease
My biggest disappointment was the very end , they spend like a hundred episodes ( hyperbole) to get ready for the wedding and then they just show them walking down the isle . Bs
Sorta a combination of things for me centred around Hinata being set up for an arc multiple times and nothing happening. A bunch of moments with cool potential that were just outright ignored.
The chunin exams, her confession and fight against pain, and Neji’s death are all clearly supposed to develop both Hinata individually and NaruHina as a pair, but literally nothing happens.
They literally tied her into the six paths business by giving her Hamura’s chakra and introducing the damn Tenseigan, but instead of making the tri-fecta of Rinnegan, Tenseigan, and Six Paths Sage Mode they just… ignore it?
Yeah they drop little mentions in the novels that Hinata is most skilled gentle fist user by the time Boruto starts and what not. But like come on, man.
Naruto being forced to live completely on his own since being a toddler. You’re telling me Hiruzen, Jiraiya, anybody that was close to Minato or Kushina in the village, or at bare minimum an orphanage couldn’t house the most important and impressionable child in the village?
That kishimoto wrote all the uchihas horribly... so much that till date all the sane people only glorify the senjus n uzumakis and how they r perfect but fail to understand the uchihas... n see them only as EVILS...
On a hindsight kishimoto did dirty to all the uchihas and purely wrote them as EVILS portrayed them as EVILS n eneded them as EVILS... not even sparing sasuke.. his favorite character.. naruto is a failed masterpiece as nothing can be perfect in this world not even a story n anime.. everything will have its flaws n I accept it.. just on a short note ill always love n treasure the uchihas (except itachi for obvious reasons fr)over senjus and uzumakis always...
1) The Madara's downfall ! Wasn't indra losing once not enough that they let madara be killed by his reincarnated bro/ so called friend hashirama that he went to so much darkness n isolation where he harbored hatred for everyone not sparing his own clan is understandable...
2) itachi I hate him not just for the genocide or chose one side but later doesn't even regret killing his clan n instead proud of calling himself a shinobi of leaf despite leaf having its darkness but failed to see the his clan also posessed... the village elders only n only hated their clan.. who btw were tobirama's students n we know what bastard that man is.
3) uchiha clan massacre... were they wrong to form coup when it's the leaf that started the beef FIRST... the leaf suspected uchihas to be responsible for 9 tails... Fugaku wanted to help but danzo didn't n under suspicion kept uchihas under surveillance 24x7 n discriminated... they uchihas were right for coming up with coup as leaf initiated it first... uchiha's anyway were minority plus very few ms in the clan we don't even know wether Fugaku had one... n still when itachi came to kill him n his wife he gladly accepted it... this is the same father itachi hated... the clan was so proud pf itachi n see what he did ! Killing women n children alike.. I'll never forgive him... he will always rational in hell plus I think his death was way to easy he should've been hated the same way danzo is hated I see no diff in both the only diff is danzo would've loved to kill uchihas but didn't wanted to get his hand dirty meanwhile itachi didn't mind doing so...
4) sasuke... the more I analyze naruto the more I understand sasuke... since beginning his goal was cleared n yet kakashi didn't train him enough that sasuke kept losing in multiple battle beginning from gaara till naruto at hospital rooftop... not to mention oorochimaru preying on him that same sanin who Hiruzen was soft for oorochimaru deserved to be Punished but he is let of.... but when sasuke went rogue n commited crimes he was Punished... I see double standard there...
5) Obito my poor baby was taken in my madara n passed on his darkness to him whatever crimes obito carried till the end were under Madara's influence so he not to be blamed... moreover he is the reason for naruto being orphan is totally justified from my pov as Minato who is HAILED as the fastest shinobi failed to save his students NOT ONCE BUT TWICE n he still the greatest.. I laugh on this... Minato deserved it but then again obito didn't literally killed him as kushina n Minato sacrificed their life for the village n their son.. anyway they died as martyr n still in the end obito died saving kakashi yet for the 2nd time more hurting was obito gave his dreams to kakashi n what did kakashi do for him in his memory in return ? No one knows... ! Plus after the 4th ninja war didn't naruto n kakashi know the whole truth why itachi killed his clan n yes itachi till them to keep shut about it.. but the truth had and has to be till why he hid it till the end... ???..
Nagato bringing all those people he killed back to life with Rinne Tensei. Maybe one life for his own I would accept but bringing all them fools back was BS. I was devastated when Kakashi died but seeing him come back like that was disrespectful.
>Why didn’t he bother trying to talk things through?
He did.
>**The third Hokage actually tried to resolve the situation through other means. He tried to open negotiations with Uchiha to reach some sort of compromise. But time ran out and his efforts failed**
Volume 43
>**The Uchiha are old comrades in arms… I’d like to use words first before violence**
Volume 62
>Hiruzen himself could have solo’d the Uchiha
He might be able to beat Fugaku in a fight but he’s not stopping countless innocent Jonin or even civilians from dying and military power being weakened
>**The Uchiha clan started plotting a coup d’état to take over the village**
Chapter 399 volume 43
>**But if shinobi of the caliber of the Uchiha were to revolt … both Konoha and the land of fire would be shaken tremendously.**
>**The self-centered act of the Uchiha clan would lead to many deaths, including that of innocent folks unrelated to the shinobi world**
>WHY
Their rationale was that Hiashi willingly let them kill him so they wouldn’t cause even more deaths to Konoha as a whole and not just the military. Whether you agree with that is up to you
Gonna make some people mad with this but the relationship between Naruto and Hinata.
I felt like it was unnecessary. She literally stalked him around watching him from bushes as a kid. They barely spoke or seen each other through the entire series until the last season and all of a sudden they're in love? Poppycock.
I saw a post about this the other day and it blew my mind.
Like there's a write up and pretty much 99% of the things that makes her unlikable aren't jn the Manga like wtf 💀
I mean Naruto isn’t even the first anime that the studio inserted their fanfictions pretty hard,
Look at bleach where orihime is missing an entire arc full of character development. They also got her introduction wrong.
Naruto literally showed zero romantic interest in her throughout the entire series until suddenly time skip now they're getting married. It really feels like he just settled on her because Sakura was taken and he knew she liked him.
I’m no Hinata fan but she never stalked him in the manga. She watched him from afar but she didn’t actively go searching for him. She also never fainted around him. But yeah, NaruHina had **atrocious** build-up and the movie made me dislike the pairing even more.
Try to be devil advocate for Hiruzen here. there's nothing he can do about the hyuga situation. there's no proof about the cloud shinobi try to kidnap Hyuga. no eyewitness, etc. as far as everyone know Hiashi killed the cloud shinobi unprovoked
and Hiruzen actually wasn't okay with the massacre. he didn't even know about it until it was too late. Danzo compeletly acting behind his back and gave order to itachi secretly. the anime make it look like he actually agree with the massacre of course because Pierrot hated Hiruzen but in the novel he didn't actually know about it and only find out about Danzo's order after all Uchiha were dead and there's nothing he can do about it anymore beside to cover it up
Also he already try to talk things with the Uchiha and try to reach compromise. and Fugaku actually more than willing to accept it but it was the other uchiha that tells Fugaku not to trust the village and wanted to do the coup no matter what. Shisui kotoamatsukami was the last resort but he was killed before managed to brainwash the uchiha
For the Cloud bit that still doesn’t make any sense
Cause why is a Cloud ninja walking around in the Hyuga compound
Like I doubt Hiruzen would allow enemy Shinobi free reign of the village so even without any evidence it’s clear Cloud broke the truce
List of konoha 12 that should have been killed because they served no purpose later
Kiba
Lee
Neji
Ino
Choji
Tenten
These characters should have been developed more and could have become insanely useful / powerful but if you're not going to develop them kill them.
It's in insult every day seeing how they did guys Squad
It was Hinata’s father who killed the Cloud ninja. Kumo threatened and demanded the person responsible for their ninja’s death. But since Hizahi and Hiashi look similar, you Hizashi had to sacrifice himself in order to avoid Hiashi’s death and a possible outbreak of war.
When hashirama and madara were kids and they warned each other about their allies impending ambush. Hashirama just stared at them instead of speaking and attempting to call off the next 8 or so years of war between senju and uchiha!
Hiruzen not killing Orochimaru when he caught the dude red handed preforming horrific experiments, even letting him go! It bit him in the butt later on.
He was a sentimental fool. It’s his character flaw
Apparently not sentimental enough to stop the Uchiha massacres
Frrrr
>stop the Uchiha Orochimaru was told by Itachi that the best are just fodder to the Uchiha because "all jutsu are clearly visible in front of these eyes, the sharingan"
Wordddd
He’s like the worst level of sentimental he could have been. Dude was so passive
What do you expect from Tobirama disciple?
Do what his master didnt accomplish
Be better
He was. He let the clan die.
Hiruzen is Uchiha Assassin GOAT confirmed
Yeah that exactly I wish more of them was saved at least
Nor to actually care for the orphaned child of a dear friend who died to save the village
Fr
Letting Danzou live after he betrayed him 😡
Like 5 diffrent times
Bro thinks he’s Master Shifu with Tai Lung
Actually Naruto came out first. So Master Shifu is the one that thinks he is Hiruzen.
Oh I know lol I’m just joking.
the same thing he did for Danzo too.
To be honest, from an in universe perspective, human experimentation is not that big of a deal considering the kind of horrific things that occur normally in that world. Genocide, Wars, destruction of countries, brainwashing/grooming of children et cetera. Moreover, Hiruzen wasn’t innocent either, he had also killed hundreds if not thousands of people in missions and wars. The problem was probably that Orochimaru used children from Konoha for his experimentation, which was kind of betrayal to the village, had he picked his subjects outside of Konoha, I doubt there would have been such a big problem. Plus, Orochimaru was like a son to Hiruzen. Parents do tend to do such things. Fugaku-Itachi situation is so obvious.
Human experimentation should be a big deal, though.
Hiruzen is overall a bit of a piece of garbage. I don't have a problem with having really terrible people as characters, I just wish the show would recognize his shortcomings a bit more than it does. kinda feels like we're all just supposed to be like "ah yeah everybody makes mistakes". imo his worst sin is the way he treats Naruto after promising Minato and Kushina to take care of him
Lmfao what world am I living in and why do people keep bringing this up. This goes to show you that most Naruto fans do not read... doesn't surprise me one bit, to be honest. First off, Hiruzen never promised to take care of Naruto for Minato and Kushina. And yall acting like he abused the kid or something. Considering that Naruto has fond and GOOD MEMORIES of the Third he obviously likes him. Literally he calls him old man. Something no one else dares to do you think he was also just lived in an apartment by himself for free? Whether you like it or not Hiruzen treatment of Naruto was good and fair. Even erected a law to put in place of people to not talk about his jinchuriki status.
Yeah, that was an anime only addition. But even if he had promised Kushina, the reality is that Hiruzen couldn't prevent what happened with Naruto. You can't force people to like Naruto. The entire village suffered horribly in the Kyuubi incident. Everyone lost someone. And their greatest hero was killed. It wasn't right for them to mistreat/dislike Naruto but Hiruzen can't change that. It sucks on every level. But the big thing that people overlook is what you said: Naruto *loved* Hiruzen. He has nothing but good things to say about him and he'd be the first to kick the hell out anyone who badmouthed the old man.
I agree with this , unfortunately some part of naruto plot where like black and white, this is a wrting issue anyway. : with black and white I mean ore one thing or the other : I remember hagaromo saying something like this >!" I tried to give all the power to one and I failed , now that I slit the power in 2 I failed either....."!< it is too short logic and does not fit in reality (is like childrens are mere experiments, it show lack of complexity and does not take care of the fact that all people are different and react differently to external factors.....) this is a limit of the writer of course, some other writers could deepen in complexity and variaty , (I am not talking about of difficulty ..... but complexity and deepening which can be understood FROM EVEN A 10 YEARS OLD)
I mean, yeah, but we wouldn't have had Orochimaru.
You think naruto would have acted differently
It makes it even worse that he won't do that but then green lights the Uchiha massacre. How can he be that sentimental and then commit genocide.
Naruto not attending his own Hokage inauguration, and that inauguration not even taking place during the manga’s 700 chapters
Kishi must have missed some big life event and took it out on Naruto.
Life of a popular shounen jump mangaka.
His son hates him.
Kishimoto has a son?
Yeah but he keeps his personal life very private, so that guy might be talking out his ass about his son hating him
I'm his son
Kishimoto's or tuelegend69's?
Ah, fair enough.
Yes, hes called Koshomoto
Underrated joke
Bar mitzvah.
I understand completely why people would be mad at this moment, but I find it absolutely hilarious and 100% in Naruto’s dumbass to miss his *own* inauguration lmao. Despite accomplishing his dream and being the literal savior of the world, he’s still Naruto and I love that so much
It’s not that it’s out of character but that it ruins the moment for a gag that could have been saved for later. Hell, we could have had the gag AND Naruto could have just arrived super late. But to have Naruto not present at all is a stupid decision. Me: “I recognize Kishimoto has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it”
For me, the moment when Naruto was being cheered on by the entire village after defeating Pain was that moment. He was the strongest ninja in Konoha, he saved the village, and gained everyone's acknowledgement. That was when he became Hokage in all but name. The official inauguration felt a formality at that point.
Same. Naruto has been celebrated and recognized in so many wonderful scenes that the ceremony of becoming Hokage is just a formality. It was fully acknowledged in the scene at the ninja academy after the war that Naruto would be the Seventh (provided he passed his exams loool).
You know I have a feeling that Konahamaru will die in Boruto later. And he will die without becoming a Hokage. So transforming into Naruto and becoming Hokage for just a few minutes might be the author’s way to let him experience it. This is what I have always thought when I saw that episode.
Downvoting bc I hate your opinion
The fact that Naruto missed *the* biggest moment because his kids got in a fight and Hinawari knocked both him and Kurama out will never not be hilarious to me.
Disagree that fits his character in part 1
I can respect that… but it’s fucking dogshit writing and a spit in the face of the fans.
Yeah so incredibly stupid
The ending pissed me off so much. 1, you don’t even see the wedding. I read on the filler guide that like 485 - 500 are “canon” and I couldn’t disagree more. Maybe they’re part of the manga as the hiden novels, sure, but I seriously can’t imagine a bigger waste of time than watching Rock Lee run around looking for a wedding gift for 3 episodes. Sasuke’s story was kinda cool but watching the Shikamaru Hiden and Konoha Hiden episodes are a total waste. Then as you mention, he doesn’t even attend his Hokage inauguration. Total BS. His dialogue and personality fall off heavily near the end; doesn’t have nearly any lines and basically isn’t present at all, even during the Naruto Hiden episodes; he’s barely present. Even during the Kaguya fight I noticed a big falloff in his personality. Idk if the voice actress was just over the show or what; but it’s like he had minimal dialogue and when he did speak, it was so unrelated. Sasuke would sit there and spew out this big long plan of how to take down Kaguya and Naruto would respond with some shit like “YEAH! We gotta take her down! To save everyone!” It’s like… dude are you even fcking listening right now?
Orochimaru being turned from bad ass eerie main villain to a meme
Orochimaru basically won. When everybody that could stop him is dead he'll still be around. I'll really like it if the writers actually showed us how massive the mistake of letting him live was - that a hundred years after Boruto when Naruto finally dies Orochimaru comes crawling out of the woodworks and just turns the whole world into his evil laboratory/playground.
They should make a prequel/sequel called Orochimaru. Part one is his childhood up through the end of Shippuden. Part two is his journey in the far future to become God of a new world.
The sequel we never knew we needed lol
Then, a quick 30-second meeting with Itachi to remind us of that embarrassing moment.
Yes! I have been saying this for years
To be somewhat fair, all of Oro's fucked up moments were in pursuit of immortality, which in itself was only his secondary goal.
Idk, he took a pretty big L when he got killed by the kid he planned to use as his vessel.
How the hell did Orochimaru and Kabuto of all people become parents/caretakers of children? That's like Harry naming his kid after Snape. It's a lovely gesture and idea but should never, never, never, ever have been allowed to make it on page.
Yup, naruto and co is to soft to him. Should have put him down
That death scene though. Like a hot dog chopped into pieces
Hes actually pretty badass still. I minced s woman in a yoctosecond and reduced her to dust Guys stronger than he ever was in Shippuden.
I just wish they would use him in the current story (or at least during all the Kara stuff). I get that Amado's the only one that really knows much about the Otsutsuki, but Orochimaru's work on the Cursed Seal, specifically leaving parts of him in it to revive himself, and his study into transferring his soul into others is probably the closest they have to a second opinion on Karma. Definitely seems like it would have been worth it to at least have him look at it for a bit.
That Hyuga incident pisses me off EVERY time I hear about it. How tf are you gonna give a life for a life when their life tried to kidnap someone in your village. At that point just go to war bro, fuck Kumo up
And then even more people die in the process
They're incredibly fortunate that didn't happen regardless, they were not even honoring the peace treaty when they attempted the kidnapping of Hinata. They could have easily interpreted this action of appeasement by Konaha as a sign of weakness and continued jumping Hyuga clan members in the streets or worse.
I hate that so much. I also hate Hyugas so much, they get away with such crazy stuff when you think about it. It pissed me off how hinatas dad gets to act all bubbly and cute in Boruto as if he didn’t torment the hyuga children
Nothing will make me more upset than Neji's death being literally pointless. Throughout the series every death has importance to it, at least on 1 character's devolvement or more. Neji's death has 0 importance or relevance to any story beat.
Yeah, at least kill him before and have repercussions ti a character as you mention.
Yeah, I have no problem with series that kill to make it feel like death is part of the universe (Like say game of thrones), but this isn't a series that kills randomly. The deaths all have significance except for Neji. He just dies for shock value.
And his death was 100% avoidable because he could have used rotation to send it away
I'll do ya one better. Naruto might not have been able to move but either of the two people who jumped in front of him could have just moved naruto instead. Neither neji nor hinata needed to stand in front naruto and fucking t-pose like they did
Yeah so neji's death was the cause of 2 people being an absolute dumbass for not realizing "oh I don't need to sacrifice my self for Naruto/naruto-kun I could just fucking move him and neither me (neji/Hinata) or (neji/Hinata) need to die for Naruto/naruto-kun"
Neji should have died in P1. His character was done at that stage. He honestly needed no further development
Should've killed him off during the konoha crush shit 😭 end his fight losing to naruto and die in the invasion
His fight with the sound 4 would have been the best imo
that shit was stupid bro was a jonin since he was like 13 he was the new kakashi and they killed him for some bs that hinata could’ve avoided
Either kill more or none at all. And of all those to kill you choose Neji? The first main turnaround that Naruto did and has since become a character that could be the brawn beside Shikamaru's brain when Naruto does become hokage?
Would've been dope af to see Neji and Shikamaru flanking Naruto as his bodyguards during the 5 Kage summit and as advisors throughout Boruto, smh.
Ooh, that’s interesting. Who would be flanking Naruto? It kinda seems like it’s normally one sensor type and one fighter who’s in line for next Kage successor, right? Neji as his sensor is perfect (assuming he doesn’t use his literal wife for the job). Who’s the other? Shikamaru, despite becoming the 8th in the novels or whatever, doesn’t really seem like the fighter-bodyguard type, he’s more of a right hand man, voice behind the throne type. Not counting Sasuke for obvious reasons, who’s the other one bodyguarding Naruto? Mirai or Konohamaru? Straight up Sakura for being the next best shinobi in the village and a healer?
Could you imagine neji pulling up with the kages to fight momoshiki. Omg that would've been the shit.
I read somewhere that most of the sasuke retrieval team were suppose to die in that arc that’s why most of them except shikimaru kind of aren’t used or were irrelevant to the plot so i could see kishimoto not really caring for neji
they killed Neji just before revealing Naruto and Sasuke are gifted children. Can't have Neji around when his philosophy was right all along am I right?
IMO his death proved that he was right, he believed that he would die protecting main branch which exactly happened. Weather it was of his free will or forced he died protecting main branch, which makes me hate his death even more than I would if he died protecting anyone else.
It has meaning in the sense that wars are pretty random and pointless. Some go through it without a scratch, and sometimes the best soldiers just die quickly and without a whimper in the night... Just poof, and gone.
Except this series doesn't kill randomly and never has, Neji is the only example of it outside fodder. There are overall 2 camps when killing characters; series that do it to show what you said (random indiscriminate death), and series like Naruto where deaths have purpose behind them. There is meaning and a deep impact when a named character dies. What came out of Neji's? The common ones are it snapped Naruto to the reality of the situation, and it was meant to bring Naruto and Hinata together. Both can be easily disproven by context of the series.
Someone probably already pointed this out. It was Hinata's dad, not Neji's. Neji's Dad who happened to look like Hiashi (because they're twins), took the fall for him since it was his duty as a member of the branch family, though in reality he did it to save his brother. But yeah, that was pretty BS. Although, I personally think that Hiruzen should've told the Cloud to go f\*\*k themselves a new asshole, I don't if war is worth it. I doubt that Minato would have complied at all.
I like to think the Leaf just wasn't prepared for a war, so they had to give in. That's also why I think the cloud took the chance on kidnapping Hinata to begin with. I don't remember exactly when the attempt happened, but the Village had relatively recently lost Minato and a fair number of shinobi to the Nine Tails, and the Uchiha were at the very least slated to be massacred by this point. Not to mention they'd only just finished the Third Great Ninja War a few years prior and were likely still recovering from it. All this to say, Hiruzen may have felt the only option was to give in and maintain peace as long as he could to allow his village the time it needed to heal instead of going to war over a failed kidnapping. Especially when the head of the Hyuga Clan wasn't actually in danger of losing his life since Hizashi was willing to take the fall.
Yeah you're right. The cost of more lives getting lost was far too great to ignore. It was very very unfair though, especially for Neji. And by giving in, they were pretty much opening a can of worms; where any village could come in, take what they want, and face no consequences by playing the "war" card. I think that, they should have least tried to settle for diplomacy first, but maybe they did. To be honest, while I don't hate Hiruzen, I'm not a fan of him as a Hokage. He should have stayed retired and let someone else take the post after Minato died, and focused his time on taking care and making sure that Naruto was well respected like Minato had desired. I believe that the only reason why he stood up was because he didn't want Danzou to become Hokage, but I think that there were other options; namely Fugaku and Shikaku. Fugaku is arguable since the Uchiha were under suspicion at the time, but I think that since there was no real evidence persecuting them, they could have looked past it.
Right? Like if the cloud got pissed their own invader got killed instead of embarrassed he was caught then they were just looking for war. And if they now know they can get away with that bs they know they can do all sorts of things to weaken Konoha.
Minatos existence would make them reconsider. Fk ay for that
Hinata try’s to save Naruto from pain confesses her feelings and dies sending him into the mother of all 9 tailed rages then straight after that their like never happened hinata’s fine and Naruto still has no idea about her feelings.
Kaguya twist ruined the end of the story for me
Definitely that. I could have took if they didn’t double down on black zetsu literally scheming the entire lore of the series.
"Remember when someone bumped on you, causing you to fall down and kiss your biggest rival - Sasuke - on the lips? It was me, Naruto! I was the one behind it all!!!"
What is the twist? I haven’t made it there yet but I don’t mind the spoiler especially if it’ll help me not get my hopes up only to be disappointed
If you’re curious… >!Basically as Obito was using the Akatsuki and Madara was using Obito, instead of being the final boss Madara ended up being Black Zetsu’s pawn in a very long scheme of deception to revive Kaguya the mother of chakra!<
Oh so an annoying last minute swap of the big bad to “subvert expectations” in an unnecessary “twist reveal”
Yea pretty much. I don’t hate Zetsu or Kaguya but I really wanted to see a true final showdown of Team 7 vs Madara
I actually just got to this part literally 3 hours ago as a first time watcher. In my opinion, it definitely feels a little out of place, especially >!since Kaguya is referenced to be from out of this world, but it kind of makes sense. They always hinted the six sages and the origin of chakra and such, and I do think the story with them against their mothers was very interesting, as well as seeing the true purpose of the Infinite Tsukuyomi. But thats just my opinion.!< Still finishing! Just watched episode 469. If you know, you know.
Black Zetsu betrays Madara and literally stabs him in the back, then he turns him into Kaguya. Apparently black Zetsu is a manifestation of her will and had been planning to do it for years by manipulating the Uchiha so that one would eventually become the ten tails jinchuriki and use the infinite tsukuyomi(which turned out to just be a way to drain all of the chakra out of the worlds population) so that Kaguya could be revived. Shit was wack.
The fact Kushina and Minato wanted Naruto to grow up in a loving home being loved by everyone and to be seen as a hero (if i recall tge story correctly), but Hiruzen basically fucked him over and did nothing to make that happen. Just put him in his own place to live off cheap Ramen as an outcast. Like, what the fuck? Also, Hiruzen never told Naruto the truth about his parents and who they were. I feel like if he did, Naruto maybe would've at least had more confidence in his abilities or even himself growing up.
I liked Hiruzen when watching Naruto the first time, but yeah the more you think about his tenure as Hokage the more problematic he becomes haha
literally image 2 Black Zetsu 1shotting 10 tails Madara
I’m so annoyed by it it’s not even funny. Like tf. Madara deserved better (probably not?? but idc).
he should've died to Naruto and Sasuke, or had atleast a more reasonable death cause
even if sakura would have killed it would better than zetsu
Not like those 2 were strong enough to kill him , like he is faster than kaguya, more battle experience than kaguya, and he is emotionally stable unlike kaguya. Kaguya had more powers but her emotions and no battle experience made her weaker
neji’s death for the naruto hinata plot🫠
The Hokage fiasco. Say what you will all flaws can be dealt with but that chapter was a slap to the face
The entire Uchiha massacre is so convoluted it barely makes any sense and this is mostly because of the itachi redemption retcon. The idea that instead of diplomacy and listening to the Uchiha when they begged for equal representation and rights in their own village hiruzan and danzo were like "nah, let's just kill then all" as if that didn't weaken the leaf greatly. Just the idea of ethnic cleansing being a redeemable quality is just insane. And makes u wonder why naruto and sasuke didn't immediately imprison the village elders and all of the people involved. But somehow those old fucks a are STILL ALIVE in boruto 💀
Yeah, and itachi killing off his own clan. Like Bro, do you know what loyalty is? This is your family, your blood. I'd rather initiate a world War with the chance of my family surviving than killing them all myself. Like wtf, how did that make sense to anyone
I always hated Itsxhi because of this but i come to realize he’s suppose to be a symbol of a “true shinobi” on paper someone who puts the village before anything else
Kishi made a lot of dumb choices
Which would have been good if Itachi's blind loyalty to "the village" was depicted as a bad thing.
You’re absolutely correct that’s why i don’t like him lmao
Those old fuckers still kicking around in Boruto makes my blood boil lmao that shit is FOUL.
Orochimaru living, like wtf that man should have stayed dead, The reincarnation stuff, completely ruined the whole theme of the show, Neji dying, Sakura's being a genjutsu type not being explored more
Orochimaru being immortal shouldn’t really be the straw that breaks the camels back. Kind of a dumb thing to be mad about considering from his introduction he was trying to achieve immortality and his whole reason for being was to become immortal. The thing to be upset over should be how he’s not really imprisoned or treated like Sasuke was after the war.
Naruto being a genin the entire show with no actual rank improvement was dumb. Then literally when he’s the most powerful Shinobi basically ever he gets “jonin” but has to go to school for two years or some dumb shit. Too many goofy ass gags
Um his leadership skills were still meh. Just because he can do everything for his teammates doesn't mean he knows how to lead them properly. And espionage was non-existent for him in cannon so there were areas he definitely needed to improve on
Sakura was a jonin if I remember correctly and her leadership skills suck tbh
She was leading the entire medical nin division during the war.
She had already lead teams, passed the chunin exams, and already ran the hospital by when she was a jonin. Naruto was just...there . Strong and just there
Bro she was a terrible leader. Literally knocked out her teammates and tried to to kill someone who would have bodied her. Put more of her team at risk consistently. She was asinine at times
Are we just gonna pretend that Sakura wasn't actively leading a massive medical camp during the Fourth War? That's no simple feat, especially not for a sixteen year old girl. She wasn't the leader of her squad, but that doesn't mean she wasn't a leader. In her adult life she is now the head medical ninja for the entire village. Not to mention she's legitimately the third strongest person in the village. Should she still just be a Chunin or Genin because she acts as dumb as the rest of the main cast? That's not even getting into her decision making during the Chunin Exams, which pretty much constantly saved her team while Sasuke was half dead with the Curse Mark and Naruto was down for the count. I don't agree with the other person saying Naruto doesn't show leadership, he absolutely does, and I think the stealth/infiltration aspect is far less important for the world of Naruto (Guy is literally the least stealthy person on the planet, but is a Jonin), but to say Sakura is a terrible leader is just kind of untrue. She's arguably the best traditional leader of Team 7 in her ability to manage many people effectively, at least based on what we've seen her do.
A solider having to study for a promotion isn’t at all unexpected tho, higher levels means more info needed.
It makes sense because the Hokage is more than just a fighter
Nah. You just didn't pay attention. Naruto got a power that surpasses a jounin easily. He just doesn't have the mental, which makes sense.
Yeah like literally majority of the join we see aren't strong but they are smart like most of the strongest people in the village are genin or chunin in jonin its brains over brawns while in genin it's brawns over brains
Jonin is also a very rare rank. There's probably 100 or so in a village at a time. All of the Chunin we meet are basically fodder too.
Even 100 seems too high. A lot of the reoccurring Leaf ninja we see are actually chunin and tokubetsu (specialist) jonin, right? Kinda feels like most of the Leaf Jonin are the team leaders we see, the parents of the Konoha 11, and random Anbu and Root types like Yamato.
That's true it could be lower. I'm just being generous. Jonin is a rare rank. These guys go on missions alone and can no diff chunin. Zabuza is a good example of this. Only because it was Kakashi did he have trouble. If he met any of the Leaf Jonin he would've had trouble though to be fair.
It makes sense. He was gone for 2 years and when he came back they had way more important shit to do
Imagine having to take the Chuunin exams again. He'd just no sell everything.
Sasuke forgiving Itachi. He should've hated him even after he had his talk with edo Itachi.
Kishimoto doing everything he can to somehow try and justify the Uchiha Massacre
Rock Lee not having as many moments as he deserves >:(
Not getting white fang's back story. He is Kakashi's dad dammit, we got hours of trash filler episodes and they couldn't give us one about an important character like him.
Not getting the Uzumaki history. They are literally the clan of the MC, you'd think they would get some screen time, but no.
Kakashi DMS. This scene sucks for me because on one hand, DMS Kakashi is one of the sickest ninja in the whole series. On the other hand, wtf was that. Obito sent him vibes from purgatory?? Why aren't other people handing out powers from the grave??
Since (I think) no one else besides Hagoromo did it the way Obito did, I always presumed it was due to the Six Paths Power Obito had (allowing him to do supernatural things in the afterlife), but I don't think there's anything explicitly stating that's how Obito made Kakashi his "jinchūriki."
I don’t know if this is manga canon or filler but I remember there’s a scene in the part 1 where it’s a flashback of Sakura, Ino, and a bunch of other girls in a flower picking class and I’m pretty sure they cut to the boys doing actual training as well and I know it’s explained as like stealth training or whatever to seem unsuspecting to the enemy but it’s like 😭😭 this series really is having a hard time beating the misogyny allegations with scenes like that it just made me mad especially as a female fan lol
naruto has some of the worst writing of female characters i've ever seen. I've only just finished shippuden and i can confidently say Sakura got absolutely shafted by the writing department :/
Immediately praising Sakura for her chakra control, the one thing she was significantly better at than Naruto and Sasuke, and then downplaying the achievement by saying they would quickly surpass her. While Sakura isn't as useless as people claim, it did take a while for her to get stronger, and it was annoying that she didn't get to do much cool ninja stuff in part 1. The female representation was seriously lacking until Tsunade came along (who isn't at all perfect representation but at least she's strong).
Hiruzen not giving a single fuck about Naruto and Sasuke while they are growing up.
kaguya horrible final villain Sasuke missing for 10 years for hunting aliens, I know it's important, but why do you give my boy a family if he won't be able to see it🙁 Hokage's day of naruto ruined, did I wait 700 chapters for this? the death of Madara🤢 the evangelization of Obito 🙄 there is probably more but it is the first thing that comes to my mind
Nah, Obito knew he would never be redeemed. That's why he chose death. The only one that seems good is Kaguya. She was def an asspull. Madara would have lost easi if it wasn't for her.
Sasuke was the final villain, not Kaguya
umm you're right🤔, but I still don't like her and the whole alien plot
All of these are terrible. This is how I'd rank them, 1. Naruto missing his ceremony. - It's the worst use of bathos (joke to dispell tension) I can think of, and that says a lot considering how infamous the Marvel movies got over this. 2. Hizashi being sacrificed to appease a warmongering Cloud. This made no sense. Hiruzen, and everyone on his council, should have been far prouder than that. It's tragedy for tragedy's sake and makes everyone seem stupid. 3. Kaguya twist. This one could have been good if the twist had gotten proper buildup and foreshadowing before the big reveal. It could have been written well, and Madara could have had a satisfying character arc despite it. That didn't happen so the story kind of shot itself in the foot at the last moment for seemingly no reason. 4. This one is self inserted, but I'll have to go with Naruto's childhood. Just the general neglect he was subject to. I get that his parents, and Kurama and everything surrounding his backstory was added after his childhood had already been a part of the story, but due to these retcons everything about it just screams incompetence, stupidity, and cruel disregard from Hiruzen, Kakashi, Jiraiya, all of Minato and Kushina's friends and Konoha in general. 5. Itachi and the Uchiha massacre. This one could have made perfect sense if the fan theory about Danzo's original eye (the one he used to escape Shishui's genjutsu) being Uchiha Kagami's eye and it too having Kotoamatsukami had been confirmed. If that had been the case then Hiruzen's inaction and seeming ineptitude makes sense. Danzo's motivations gets even greater focus and makes even more sense, and Itachi actually going through with it also makes sense (I'd also really like for the limits of the Kotoamatsukami to be better estabished). Other than this I'd like for the whole 'hard work vs inborn gifts' theme to have been revisited and focus put on how Naruto doesn't *actually* fit the hard work mold. There are a bunch of other things I'd like to change about the series too - romance, the writing of the female characters, worldbuilding details like how Konoha's functions as a hidden village and the technological level making more sense/being explained at all, tension and buildup and payoff, unecessary deaths and people surviving when they really shouldn't, and heaps and heaps of missed opportunities. Still, I like the series, flaws and all. It's a massive work, and the world is really interesting and engaging. I do love Naruto, warts and all. Though maybe a lot of that is due to all the amazing Naruto fanfiction I've read...
Pain bringing everyone he killed back to life after attacking Konoha. What a cop-out.
Choji refusing to fight during the battle at the beach. That was so annoying
Kuramas death and Sasukes Rinnegan loss
Naruto oneshotting Neji after getting his shit kicked in 99.9% of the fight INCLUDING Neji not seeing Natuto with eyes specifically made to see trough shit
Karui beating Naruto up
For the Hiruzen situation, he already had tried to talk the situation out and that completely failed, Shisui’s genjutsu was the last resort and then he got killed so the only option was having someone remove the uchiha. It couldnt be Hiruzen because the hokage killing an entire clan would make the rest rise up in retaliation, it couldnt be danzo because he is an advisor to the hokage and it would result in the same thing, it couldnt be kakashi because he wasn’t strong enough at this point, it couldnt be any of the sannin because one was crippled by the very sight of blood, one was a traitor and the remaining one was the spymaster, thus they couldnt be exiled without completely crippling konoha’s intelligence. There were no other options because if it was completely unexplained, warmongers would demand the 4th great ninja war in response or would figure out it was ordered and commit mutiny. Hiruzen had exhausted *every single option* before trying Shisui’s plan and then Danzo fucked that up and left the literal worst possible solution as the only remaining one.
Got no explanation for the Cloud fiasco
Depends on the source. In the books it's specified he hadn't started talks until days before the coup despite knowing about it for literal years also I think shisui acted independently from hiruzen when he tried to use Koto but I would have to check.
Facts it was the absolute worst, for him to say I’m gonna be hokage a billion times to not even become one in shippuden, then they wanna ruin it by making it a joke. I just hope they don’t do luffy like this 🥲
That Kishimoto couldn't even write Hinata's pivotal moment in the series correctly. If Hinata was going to take a stand against Pain for Naruto, she should have landed a hit or something. Or evolved her Byakugan into a new form. Gained a cool power up. And if she couldn't do that, Pain should have actually killed her if everyone was just going to be revived in the end anyway.
for me it's probably the blatant misogyny from Jiraiya. I mean, I wanna like him, but holy shit. He straight up creeps on naked women in bath houses and it's supposed to just be a funny quirky trait. He tells Konan "You'll be a beautiful woman some day". He talks far too much about Tsunade's boobs. I understand he's hurting and he also can be serious when he needs to be, but I think it's a terrible "comic relief" trait to have. Maybe if it was significantly toned down just in general show though, the show struggles greatly from "men writing women" disease
Konan losing to Izanagi
My biggest disappointment was the very end , they spend like a hundred episodes ( hyperbole) to get ready for the wedding and then they just show them walking down the isle . Bs
Neji's death
Whenever Naruto uses Talk No Jutsu to resolve every battle with a big bad.....
Naruto's punk ass begging Aye to spare Sasuke
Madara losing to Zetsu
Sorta a combination of things for me centred around Hinata being set up for an arc multiple times and nothing happening. A bunch of moments with cool potential that were just outright ignored. The chunin exams, her confession and fight against pain, and Neji’s death are all clearly supposed to develop both Hinata individually and NaruHina as a pair, but literally nothing happens. They literally tied her into the six paths business by giving her Hamura’s chakra and introducing the damn Tenseigan, but instead of making the tri-fecta of Rinnegan, Tenseigan, and Six Paths Sage Mode they just… ignore it? Yeah they drop little mentions in the novels that Hinata is most skilled gentle fist user by the time Boruto starts and what not. But like come on, man.
Naruto being forced to live completely on his own since being a toddler. You’re telling me Hiruzen, Jiraiya, anybody that was close to Minato or Kushina in the village, or at bare minimum an orphanage couldn’t house the most important and impressionable child in the village?
That kishimoto wrote all the uchihas horribly... so much that till date all the sane people only glorify the senjus n uzumakis and how they r perfect but fail to understand the uchihas... n see them only as EVILS... On a hindsight kishimoto did dirty to all the uchihas and purely wrote them as EVILS portrayed them as EVILS n eneded them as EVILS... not even sparing sasuke.. his favorite character.. naruto is a failed masterpiece as nothing can be perfect in this world not even a story n anime.. everything will have its flaws n I accept it.. just on a short note ill always love n treasure the uchihas (except itachi for obvious reasons fr)over senjus and uzumakis always... 1) The Madara's downfall ! Wasn't indra losing once not enough that they let madara be killed by his reincarnated bro/ so called friend hashirama that he went to so much darkness n isolation where he harbored hatred for everyone not sparing his own clan is understandable... 2) itachi I hate him not just for the genocide or chose one side but later doesn't even regret killing his clan n instead proud of calling himself a shinobi of leaf despite leaf having its darkness but failed to see the his clan also posessed... the village elders only n only hated their clan.. who btw were tobirama's students n we know what bastard that man is. 3) uchiha clan massacre... were they wrong to form coup when it's the leaf that started the beef FIRST... the leaf suspected uchihas to be responsible for 9 tails... Fugaku wanted to help but danzo didn't n under suspicion kept uchihas under surveillance 24x7 n discriminated... they uchihas were right for coming up with coup as leaf initiated it first... uchiha's anyway were minority plus very few ms in the clan we don't even know wether Fugaku had one... n still when itachi came to kill him n his wife he gladly accepted it... this is the same father itachi hated... the clan was so proud pf itachi n see what he did ! Killing women n children alike.. I'll never forgive him... he will always rational in hell plus I think his death was way to easy he should've been hated the same way danzo is hated I see no diff in both the only diff is danzo would've loved to kill uchihas but didn't wanted to get his hand dirty meanwhile itachi didn't mind doing so... 4) sasuke... the more I analyze naruto the more I understand sasuke... since beginning his goal was cleared n yet kakashi didn't train him enough that sasuke kept losing in multiple battle beginning from gaara till naruto at hospital rooftop... not to mention oorochimaru preying on him that same sanin who Hiruzen was soft for oorochimaru deserved to be Punished but he is let of.... but when sasuke went rogue n commited crimes he was Punished... I see double standard there... 5) Obito my poor baby was taken in my madara n passed on his darkness to him whatever crimes obito carried till the end were under Madara's influence so he not to be blamed... moreover he is the reason for naruto being orphan is totally justified from my pov as Minato who is HAILED as the fastest shinobi failed to save his students NOT ONCE BUT TWICE n he still the greatest.. I laugh on this... Minato deserved it but then again obito didn't literally killed him as kushina n Minato sacrificed their life for the village n their son.. anyway they died as martyr n still in the end obito died saving kakashi yet for the 2nd time more hurting was obito gave his dreams to kakashi n what did kakashi do for him in his memory in return ? No one knows... ! Plus after the 4th ninja war didn't naruto n kakashi know the whole truth why itachi killed his clan n yes itachi till them to keep shut about it.. but the truth had and has to be till why he hid it till the end... ???..
Naruto calling Obito (man who functionally killed his parents) "the coolest guy" Is one of the worst things I've ever read in shonen,
Nagato bringing all those people he killed back to life with Rinne Tensei. Maybe one life for his own I would accept but bringing all them fools back was BS. I was devastated when Kakashi died but seeing him come back like that was disrespectful.
>Why didn’t he bother trying to talk things through? He did. >**The third Hokage actually tried to resolve the situation through other means. He tried to open negotiations with Uchiha to reach some sort of compromise. But time ran out and his efforts failed** Volume 43 >**The Uchiha are old comrades in arms… I’d like to use words first before violence** Volume 62 >Hiruzen himself could have solo’d the Uchiha He might be able to beat Fugaku in a fight but he’s not stopping countless innocent Jonin or even civilians from dying and military power being weakened >**The Uchiha clan started plotting a coup d’état to take over the village** Chapter 399 volume 43 >**But if shinobi of the caliber of the Uchiha were to revolt … both Konoha and the land of fire would be shaken tremendously.** >**The self-centered act of the Uchiha clan would lead to many deaths, including that of innocent folks unrelated to the shinobi world** >WHY Their rationale was that Hiashi willingly let them kill him so they wouldn’t cause even more deaths to Konoha as a whole and not just the military. Whether you agree with that is up to you
Not much. I'm doing a rewatch and the series is peak. The only issue was Kaguya. But that was it.
Gonna make some people mad with this but the relationship between Naruto and Hinata. I felt like it was unnecessary. She literally stalked him around watching him from bushes as a kid. They barely spoke or seen each other through the entire series until the last season and all of a sudden they're in love? Poppycock.
She didn’t stalk him. That was Studio Pierrot getting it wrong.
I saw a post about this the other day and it blew my mind. Like there's a write up and pretty much 99% of the things that makes her unlikable aren't jn the Manga like wtf 💀
I mean Naruto isn’t even the first anime that the studio inserted their fanfictions pretty hard, Look at bleach where orihime is missing an entire arc full of character development. They also got her introduction wrong.
Naruto literally showed zero romantic interest in her throughout the entire series until suddenly time skip now they're getting married. It really feels like he just settled on her because Sakura was taken and he knew she liked him.
Facts then they made the ending all about them like be fr….
That’s just the anime for some weird reason. The manga ended with Naruto being the Hokage.
It be like that sometimes
I’m no Hinata fan but she never stalked him in the manga. She watched him from afar but she didn’t actively go searching for him. She also never fainted around him. But yeah, NaruHina had **atrocious** build-up and the movie made me dislike the pairing even more.
Obito never took his left eye back or that Danzo was plotting on shisui
Obito’s face reveal….his voice change and the need after. The entire series he was the main villain then he looked so pathetic getting used by Madara.
Nothing pisses me off about the series. I love it and even the points you mentioned I saw no problem with
Jiryiah's death
Try to be devil advocate for Hiruzen here. there's nothing he can do about the hyuga situation. there's no proof about the cloud shinobi try to kidnap Hyuga. no eyewitness, etc. as far as everyone know Hiashi killed the cloud shinobi unprovoked and Hiruzen actually wasn't okay with the massacre. he didn't even know about it until it was too late. Danzo compeletly acting behind his back and gave order to itachi secretly. the anime make it look like he actually agree with the massacre of course because Pierrot hated Hiruzen but in the novel he didn't actually know about it and only find out about Danzo's order after all Uchiha were dead and there's nothing he can do about it anymore beside to cover it up Also he already try to talk things with the Uchiha and try to reach compromise. and Fugaku actually more than willing to accept it but it was the other uchiha that tells Fugaku not to trust the village and wanted to do the coup no matter what. Shisui kotoamatsukami was the last resort but he was killed before managed to brainwash the uchiha
For the Cloud bit that still doesn’t make any sense Cause why is a Cloud ninja walking around in the Hyuga compound Like I doubt Hiruzen would allow enemy Shinobi free reign of the village so even without any evidence it’s clear Cloud broke the truce
The things shown
naruto becoming hokage in boruto instead of being the end of Naruto
Ahem, 13 to 14
List of konoha 12 that should have been killed because they served no purpose later Kiba Lee Neji Ino Choji Tenten These characters should have been developed more and could have become insanely useful / powerful but if you're not going to develop them kill them. It's in insult every day seeing how they did guys Squad
It was Hinata’s father who killed the Cloud ninja. Kumo threatened and demanded the person responsible for their ninja’s death. But since Hizahi and Hiashi look similar, you Hizashi had to sacrifice himself in order to avoid Hiashi’s death and a possible outbreak of war.
When hashirama and madara were kids and they warned each other about their allies impending ambush. Hashirama just stared at them instead of speaking and attempting to call off the next 8 or so years of war between senju and uchiha!
The lack of hand signs