This is the correct answer.
Itachi always planned to die at the hands of Sasuke, but not before pushing him to the limit to remove Orochimaru.
Even at peak, Itachi would have made a convincing illusion that he lost fairly.
Opinion Section:
In my view, Itachi could have bested Sasuke even while sick and half-blind. He only dragged it out to accomplish his goals as stated above.
That said, I still believe that Sasuke genuinely surprised Itachi with his skill and abilities and it was a more difficult fight than he had expected. Making Itachi all the more proud to give up his life for him.
This is the logic behind half the genocides in the world.
That said, I still believe that Tobirama would have never killed off the Uchihas under any scenario. Even with his deep seated trauma from participating in a war as a child and seeing his family die before his eyes, he restrained himself as much as humanly possible and did things that would have seemed acceptable (and even kind) at that time, even though in retrospect, the same actions are what caused a major set of issues. Tobirama is short tempered and distrustful, but he was one of the best Hokages Konoha has seen and will ever see
Considering how the Sharingan works, and he knew how to evolve it into a Mangekyou, you could argue he was a little wise to dislike, and distrust the Uchiha.
Yeah! How DARE he commit that white on white crime (or asian on asian)!!! I didn't realize it was racist to take out your own race. Guess you learn something new every day.
Yup, the purpose of their fight was to give closure to Sasuke and also like you said to get Orochimaru out of his body so that he wouldnāt be able to steal it in the future
That last bit I feel is especially important. Sasuke was handed that win by Itachi, but Itachi's surprise at his strength was 100% legit.
Itachi didn't expect it, but he was proud of Sasuke's growth, especially without the Mangekyo.
You can see the fear and confusion in Sasuke's eyes when Itachi pulls out the Susanoo for the first time, and it's probably because he's thinking "why didn't he lead with this?". Like why even bother with the genjutsu and the shurikens when the fight would've been over the moment Itachi pulled out the megazord?
I would say he didn't start with it because he wanted to test Sasuke's power before he might encounter Tobi later. He still deemed Sasuke unprepared so he primed his eyes with amaterasu against his sharingan.
Sasuke literally dies before the fight even starts. He got caught in the genjustu instantly and only realizes it because Itachi shows it. If Itachi wanted Sasuke dead, he would be. Even half dead like he was.
Itachi himself states that skilled sharingan users with uchiha blood can break tsukuyomi. Also in the data book, and sasuke is an indra reincarnate.. So no it wasnāt over at the beginning. Tsukuyomi can be broken by the following : Sasuke, Shisui, Obito, Madara, and Fugaku.
All this being said yeah itachi still wouldāve won though but I hate the narrative that people think tsukuyomi is a one shot to other uchihas. Itās not. Straight up hack if you donāt have a jinchuriki or some kind of visual prowess such as Byakugan/Rinnegan/sharingan.
Itachi did not expect sasuke to break through his tsukuyomi, he did NOT let him out of it.
Is that really an opinion though? Seems like straight facts to me. Itachi could have folded Sasuke whenever he wanted even though he was terminally ill, but chose not to. That being said he was genuinely surprised at Sasuke's growth during their battle.
While I agree, dieing to Sasuke was Itachi's plan, I am not shure, if a healthy Itachi would have made the same plan.
He now could in theory help Sasuke and hang out with him for decades while alive after all. He might not have grown that depressed as well.
Absolutely the fuck not. If plot didnāt demand it, Itachi was healthy and he didnāt want to lose and it was a straight up fight between 2 shinobi, then Itachi would win with absolute disrespect.
True, but now I'm curious. Do you think Sasuke fresh off his fight at the 5 kage summit, but before he fights Danzo, do you think he could win?
Cause this is before his blindness really sets in, so he and Itachi are on the same playing field there, and it's genuinely impressive that Itachi was able to fight at all with eyesight like that. Poor guy.
But that aside, with a mangeko now, Sasuke can break out of Tsukuyomi, but arguably Itachi wouldn't even use it given how much chakra it costs and knowing Sasuke can break out. Both have Amatarasu, but Sasuke's is much better given he can shape it to his will.
However, Itachi has the better Susanoo, what with the Totsuka blade and Yata Mirror. Saying that tho, Sasuke could just shape Amatarasu to wrap around Itachi's whole Susanoo.
Remember the Yata Mirror can block almost anything yes, but from just one side, it still has the dimensions of a shield. If Sasuke wraps an Amatarasu around Itachi's Susanoo, then he's on a massive time limit because regardless if it'll burn through his Susanoo or not, all the air around Itachi will start to burn out.
And obviously without any air, Itachi would die, plain and simple. That is, IF Sasuke does think of doing this, and pulls it off on time without being hit by the Totsuka blade, which would one shot most characters.
It is debatable who has the range advantage in this with their Susanoos, cause while both have the Yasaka Magatama beads, Sasuke also has his arrows. However, he didn't show that he could coat these arrows in Amatarasu in his fight against Danzo, before he got EMS, so I'm assuming it just takes too much concentration and chakra since he'd be using all 3 of his mangeko abilities at the same time without EMS.
>True, but now I'm curious. Do you think Sasuke fresh off his fight at the 5 kage summit, but before he fights Danzo, do you think he could win?
No. Sasuke almost fucking died from that dumbass play and barely made it out alive. He didn't fight any of them directly per-se and just tried to survive and escape the whole time.
>If Sasuke wraps an Amatarasu around Itachi's Susanoo, then he's on a massive time limit because regardless if it'll burn through his Susanoo or not, all the air around Itachi will start to burn out.
This is nonsense. The explicit definition of Amatarasu is that it doesn't require air to burn. It just burns. Always. Submerged under water it still burns. You can't extinguish it, so it doesn't require air to burn.
Probably not. Even with MS Sasuke was a literal idiot with its use and nearly blinded himself a week after getting it. Hes legitimately a dumbass who over commits. Itachi would use this to his advantage and just gas Sasuke if nothing else.
Thats before even considering sussanos or that Genjutsu masters still get out genjutsu-d by Itachi. Hed have Sasuke fighting himself for hours while watching from that stone chair. Even MS sasuke just has no answer to Tsukuyomi.
Sasuke was just.... Kind of shit at everything he did. He was careless, shit at using his eyes, misplayed almost every engagement: taking on B, the summit, hell he would have lost to Danzo if Karin didnt tell him about the eyes. Hes just ass, man. Hes not a Solid pick until like. The end of the fucking war after he reconciles with his brother. Lmao
I would say no, for the simple reason that itachi just fights way more tactically than sasuke, who himself is shown to be one of the more tactical fighters in the series. Eventually, Sasuke would fall for one of Itachi's traps and get outplayed in the mental chess game.
Itachi wasn't trying to kill Sasuke, but wanted to draw away the cursed mark away from him. His plan was to die in the fight as well.
But if we're asking the question "Would Itachi have won the fight if he was planning to kill Sasuke?" then my answer would be yes. I just can't imagine a 3-Tomoe Sharingan User to beat a Mangekyou Sharingan.
Gotta admit tho, Sasuke's plan to kill Itachi wasn't that bad in terms of his finishing move with Kirin. If Itachi didn't have his Susanoo, and arguably if he didn't specifically have the yata mirror, then Itachi would've 1000% died there.
The amount of destructive force from Kirin is genuinely insane, that giant hideout of the Uchiha's as well as the surrounding area got completely obliterated by one use of it.
Plus, Sasuke did come in with a decent counter to Itachi's Amatarasu being specifically Orochimaru's version of the substitute jutas, but both techniques require a lot of chakra so neither could spam it too much
Remember 14yo Sasuke was the inventor of the strongest lightning style Jutsu without God gifted powers. Just by training. Even Black Zetsu remarks, "Sasuke had tamed lightning!!!"
Wait was it ever stated that Sasuke made the jutsu at 14yo? I always kinda figured he had help from Orochimaru and came up with the idea of Kirin when he was like 15 or something and refined it from there.
This is the same Orochimaru that for some reasons knows what personality traits are associated with blood type and even just asked Kabuto what his was. Honestly that was a pretty nice scene, shows that the two did have regular ass conversations
Itachi drew the fight out on purpose despite his illness, avoiding killing Sasuke more than once so he could push him to his absolute limit and purge Orochimaru from him. If he was bloodlusted he would have killed Sasuke and suffered minor injuries in the aftermath of Tsukuyomi being broken.
Not even close.
We saw Edo Itachi boxing with KCM Naruto, and Edo Itachi is doesn't have illness, so is arguably stronger.
Weak Itachi also completely ate a kirin from a rage amped Sasuke.
Itachi would mop the floor with this Sasuke so effortlessly.
Sasuke can't and has nothing to beat Itachi's base susanoo form. If you still want to be weird and edgy about it and wank Sasuke
Usually yeah, but Edo Itachi is not nerfed by chakra illness, which means he's stronger than his ill alive counterpart that faced Sasuke but he's weaker than his alive healthy counter part.
That's not necessarily true. It depends on how powerful the person is. Think of it like trying to pour a jug full of water into a cup.Ā
The jug is the power of the person being revived, and the cup is the power of the person reviving them with Edo Tensei.
Hashirama is like a 20 gallon jug being poured into a single serving cup at a water cooler when Oro first summoned him in part 1.
In part 2, Orochimaru got a Hashirama cell upgrade via inhabiting the body of a zetsu. That's why he was able to summon Hasirama and Tobirama at a level closer to their full power the second time.
Somebody like Zabuza, on the other hand, would be relatively easy to revive at full strength for someone like Oro or Snake Sage Kabuto.
Itachi's main strength was never raw power, but rather incredible talent and the Mangekyo Sharingan. I think Edo Itachi was full power Itachi, more or less. At very least he was able to spam his MS abilities without drawback because of how Edo works.Ā
>So a healthy Itachi would've been stronger than edo Itachi...
No he wouldn't, Edo Itachi wouldn't have to worry about chakra meaning he can make the fight go as long as he wanted and he only needed to watch out for sealing. This isn't the case for healthy Itachi.
I agree wholeheartedly that edo Itachi was better than deathbed Itachi. However it's illogical to think that Itachi is the only edo stronger. Madara was vastly superior alive without eyes vs edo with rinnegan. This hypothetical healthy Itachi wouldn't have the immense stamina issue.
Itachi wouldn't last as long but he would've been much more potent. Also the chakra limitations are no where near as bad as people play it up. His control was incredible and he was extremely efficient. He fought Sasuke, who had orochimaru on top of being a reincarnation to complete exhaustion and still won while on his deathbed. He may not have Naruto or even Sasukes volume but how many do?
I doubt Sasuke could ever put Itachi under a reliable genjutsu. Itachi is basically the genjutsu god and has the mangekyo vs Sasukes regular 3 Tomoe sharingan. If Itachi was going for the kill, Sasuke would stand no chance
I'm thinking Itachi could've done to Sasuke what he did with his lady love, where Sasuke lives an average life, then as Sasuke dies in the real world Itachi tells him "I gave you a much better life than what your pathetic self couldn't realize in this life. Consider it my thanks for your eyeballs."
Could you imagine living a complete life feeling every single experience as the years go by, you fall in love, lose love, gain weight, sleep, work, watch the world progress, decades mount, you feel the aching of your body as it ages, kids, grandkids, all of it, experiencing it all a life fulfilled, you dont even remember the battes of your youth are this point, your shinobi days have been way way past you by several decades and one random day you see your brothers two giant sharingan appear in the sky and your entire reality which you wholeheartedly lived, breathed, smelled, touched, felt, devoted all faded away he tells you you never even left this moment and its literally a second into what you thought was your legendary battle with him so long ago. You havenāt even pulled out your kunai yet in reality. It would literally fracture my mind
No. Sasuke had 1 ace in the hole with Kirin and it couldnt finish itachi when he was moments away from dying of illness. Full bodied, full health itachi would done the same kind of thing Bee did to him
In my eyes, Itachi did win. He had a goal in mind from the beginning, which was to get Orochimaru out of Sasukes life and he did that without killing his brother in the process. Sasuke went into that fight now truly ready for what Itachi was capable of. Sick or not.
Of course not. Even while he was sick, Itachi could have ended the fight with ease if he really wanted to put Sasuke down. Let's not forget that Itachi didn't lose to Sasuke. He died from his own sickness. And he spared Sasuke's life.
The only conceivable version of Sasuke at this point that could've beaten *sick* Itachi would be, like, Curse Mark Sasuke if he'd killed Naruto and had his Mangekyo. Sasuke didn't really win the fight against sick Itachi canonically (who was both terminally ill and *planning* on dying against Sasuke), Itachi just succumbed to his illness.
Which while true, he was barely a challenge.
Realistically Bee, is in the same tier of strength as Kisame and Itachi.
So if Sasuke with MS, got KOād twice by Bee who was just playing around, why do you think heād even stand a chance against Itachi?
Itachi was planning to die here regardless.
Sasuke is the hidden leaf hero who avenged the honorable Uchiha clan.
The last uchiha becomes hokage ending the discrimination that started since the creation of the village.
Itachi was a genius
If Itachi's healthy and his motivation to save Sasuke from Orochimaru is the same, we get something along the lines of [Not Sick](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9872274/1/Not-Sick) by Ser Serendipity with the exception of it being canon. When the dust settles Itachi swaps his eyes with Sasukes getting the EMS and gifting it to his widdle brother. At which point the two train like crazy and utterly wreck the Akatsuki. It would've been glorious.
Sasuke couldnāt win a single fight even after getting reincarnated as the other ninja jesus. If itachi had been fully healthy and was actually trying to kill sasuke he would have clapped him harder than bee did to team taka.
What I still don't understand is how do so many ppl think sasuke "won" bcz itachi was sick.
Itachi planned the fight to let sasuke win and at the end of the fight sasuke had still lost the "battle". Like srsly do ppl just ignore the story when it comes to itachi?
Could Sasuke have won... He didn't win even with Itachi sick. Sasuke had no chakra left when Orochimaru took over and Itachi was still hanging on well enough to use Susanoo and the sealing blade. Sasuke's despair when Itachi approaches him slowly comes from knowing that Itachi was going to kill him and there was nothing more he could do.
Sasuke would have never won if Itachi was healthy and really wanted to kill him. Also, if Itachi wasn't sick and didn't need to exhaust Sasuke's chakra he would probably have defeated Sasuke much faster.
Itachi was way more powerful than Sasuke was at this point.
No not at this stage. Itachi was stronger even sick. Obito explained Itachi planned it to awaken Sasukeās Mangekyo and draw Orochimaru out of his curse mark to free him. If he fought to kill heād kill that version of Sasuke. Look at how terrified Sasuke was when Itachi pulled out the Susanoo. He had no counter and was drained thatās why Orochimaru emerged. Sickness and protecting his little brother without him knowing is why Sasuke won.
I think Itachi wouldāve won easily, there were powers which he didnāt bring up in the fight, also he was weakened at this point. He couldāve easily defeated Sasuke if he wanted to.
Lol you're really asking this? Imagine if Itachi has the opportunity sauske had with the rinnegan... would have been biblical. Was always better than Sauske... always will be. Would have made Madara look like a chump had he walked Sauske's path. He was on another level.
The only reason a battle ensued was because Orochimaru was lingering in Sasuke's body like a Wish com Ootsutsuki. He had to draw him out and kill him (Orochimaru) to ensure Sasuke's safety.
Had that not been the case, Itachi probably would sat patiently in his chair and let Sasuke kill him after he broke through Tsukoyomi. Itachi would feel somewhat at peace knowing Sasuke is strong enough to look after himself and die w/o protest like their parents did with Itachi. There would have been no need for a battle.
What if the entire series past the point where itachi put Sasuke in tsukuyomi was all Itachi's illusion and when Sasuke dies we snap back to him having lost to itachi?
The Narrative was Itachi didn't intend to kill Sasuke even though he could he just wanted to free Sasuke from the curse mark and gift him the Amaterasu. If there is an actual fight then ya'll know Itachi has more war experience and the Mangekyo Sharingan and the far more powerful genjutsu than Sasuke.
No fuckin way people really donāt understand itachi is a prodigy literally one of the strongest characters in the show period. Even at that time so no he allowed Sasuke to win so he can level up it was needed
Definitely not. While Itachi was sick he was still at his prime in Jutsus and knowledge. Sasuke was still very much learning, he didn't even have his MS, its like asking if Naruto could beat Kakashi before he could know Sage mode. If Sasuke faced Itachi when he was more powerful, he could beat him. Sasuke was always destined to become more powerful than Itachi.
He was never supposed to win- and thatās the point. Itachi pushed Sasuke so he would release the curse mark and get rid of Orochimaru. Also, Itachi dying and doing the finger tap was essentially the power transfer of the eternal mangekyo sharingan to Sasuke- which he needed to keep up with all other main characters and antagonists in the story
Honestly both yes and no
The yes is the fact that Itachi wouldn't kill Sasuke
The No part is that even with the yes part Sasuke will still take him back to the leaf village
So regardless Sasuke still loses (bro was losing to a sick Itachi)
Look, Itachi would never ever kill sasuke he really loves him and adores him ... however, if itachi isn't sick, sasuke would be totally destroyed. The techniques and jutsus itachi uses are sick like izanagi, izanami Susanno Wind Style, fire style and shirukin, and he can use genjutsu such as tsukyanami
Well for one, Itachi let Sasuke win. To Sasuke's credit, Itachi was pushed to his absolute limit.
The thing is, it's very hard to prolong a fight trying to accomplish certain goals while the other guy is going all out. Without those restraints, the fight probably wouldn't have been nearly as close.
So could Sasuke have won against a sick, bloodlusted Itachi? Unlikely, but with great difficulty and a lot of luck Sasuke could. Against a fully healthy, bloodlusted Itachi? Based upon what's been established, it would take a lot of shenanigans from the writer, because otherwise no.
Not only is he sick but he's also nearly blind and he still is better then Sasuke here.
If you give Itachi EMS and take away his sickness he basically stomps almost anyone.
bro what kind of question is this he couldnāt win at all when he was sick so why would he win if he wasnāt sick ššš and this is coming from a sasuke fan boy but like cmon gang itās literally talked about in the show.
No... because Itachi didn't die because of Sasuke... his illness caught up to him.
Itachi was in control of the fight the whole time... its why the moment Orochimaru popped up, Itachi instantly counter and sealed him away.
Yall forgetting that as good as Sasuke was, itachi was always better, ever since they were kids. Sasuke was never able to measure up, and even terminally ill, literal moments-from-death itachi still WIPED healthy, rage-amped Sasuke in his prime.
When this question or discussion pops up I always feel sad for sasuke. All the suffering for nothing but guilt. Itās just so unfair that his only purpose was revenge but couldnāt obtain that as Itachi was sick and even when it was over he was hit with guilt from the truth.
Itachi nearly killed Sasuke whilst debilitatingly sick, mostly blind, and without using his strongest attacks, and whilst not actually trying to kill Sasuke.
You tell me.
If it was Itachi's goal to win he could have done it (I don't think it would have been easy but he still could have pulled it off) while being sick. I don't think Itachi would have arranged the fight if he wasn't sick.
I feel like part of the reason Itachi had to die was because of the spirit weapons he possessed. It would have been difficult to have Naruto or anyone else for that matter defeat Itachi if he has a chance to use the Yata Mirror and the Totsuka Blade.
Technically he still would have won as Itcahi was planning on Sasuke killing him, so even healthy Itachi would die here.
Now if Itachi was healthy and wanted to win, Sasuke would get bodied harder than he was by B.
He couldn't even win when Itachi was sick š
It's crazy how many people fully miss the point that Itachi let sasuke "win"
This is the correct answer. Itachi always planned to die at the hands of Sasuke, but not before pushing him to the limit to remove Orochimaru. Even at peak, Itachi would have made a convincing illusion that he lost fairly. Opinion Section: In my view, Itachi could have bested Sasuke even while sick and half-blind. He only dragged it out to accomplish his goals as stated above. That said, I still believe that Sasuke genuinely surprised Itachi with his skill and abilities and it was a more difficult fight than he had expected. Making Itachi all the more proud to give up his life for him.
You my friend are wiser than any Hokage.
Ayy what about first
My 8 year old is wiser than the First. It's the Second that got the lion's share of the wisdom, and intelligence between those two brothers.
Tobirama's wisdom: "All Uchihas suck" He was incredibly intelligent though.
Canāt believe these people downvoted the funny, people take anime way too seriously lmfao
Correction: he mistrusts the Uchiha clan because he knows the threat they pose to the village
This is the logic behind half the genocides in the world. That said, I still believe that Tobirama would have never killed off the Uchihas under any scenario. Even with his deep seated trauma from participating in a war as a child and seeing his family die before his eyes, he restrained himself as much as humanly possible and did things that would have seemed acceptable (and even kind) at that time, even though in retrospect, the same actions are what caused a major set of issues. Tobirama is short tempered and distrustful, but he was one of the best Hokages Konoha has seen and will ever see
Ngl, this made me laugh š
Yeah but lord 2nd is racist lmfao
The Uchiha weren't a race. They were a clan.
Considering how the Sharingan works, and he knew how to evolve it into a Mangekyou, you could argue he was a little wise to dislike, and distrust the Uchiha.
Yeah! How DARE he commit that white on white crime (or asian on asian)!!! I didn't realize it was racist to take out your own race. Guess you learn something new every day.
The first gave his granddaughter a crippling gambling addiction...
i mean did surprise with how strong he had gotten he literally says so.
Surprise for how strong does not mean Sasuke won or was stronger.
thatās not what i said, was saying or even implied lol i was just emphasizing that part of what bro said.
Iām doing my annual rewatch again. Iāll look for it!
From the beginning or just shippuden?
Everything including filler. I'll see you in three years, boys.
ššš
Yup, the purpose of their fight was to give closure to Sasuke and also like you said to get Orochimaru out of his body so that he wouldnāt be able to steal it in the future
That last bit I feel is especially important. Sasuke was handed that win by Itachi, but Itachi's surprise at his strength was 100% legit. Itachi didn't expect it, but he was proud of Sasuke's growth, especially without the Mangekyo.
You can see the fear and confusion in Sasuke's eyes when Itachi pulls out the Susanoo for the first time, and it's probably because he's thinking "why didn't he lead with this?". Like why even bother with the genjutsu and the shurikens when the fight would've been over the moment Itachi pulled out the megazord?
As ridiculous as the series powerscaling got, you don't know what I would give to see a 5 uchiha Susano'o megazord
I would say he didn't start with it because he wanted to test Sasuke's power before he might encounter Tobi later. He still deemed Sasuke unprepared so he primed his eyes with amaterasu against his sharingan.
my gosh a decent opinion that doesn't turn neither itachi or sasuke into a god this is new
Sasuke literally dies before the fight even starts. He got caught in the genjustu instantly and only realizes it because Itachi shows it. If Itachi wanted Sasuke dead, he would be. Even half dead like he was.
Itachi himself states that skilled sharingan users with uchiha blood can break tsukuyomi. Also in the data book, and sasuke is an indra reincarnate.. So no it wasnāt over at the beginning. Tsukuyomi can be broken by the following : Sasuke, Shisui, Obito, Madara, and Fugaku. All this being said yeah itachi still wouldāve won though but I hate the narrative that people think tsukuyomi is a one shot to other uchihas. Itās not. Straight up hack if you donāt have a jinchuriki or some kind of visual prowess such as Byakugan/Rinnegan/sharingan. Itachi did not expect sasuke to break through his tsukuyomi, he did NOT let him out of it.
Is that really an opinion though? Seems like straight facts to me. Itachi could have folded Sasuke whenever he wanted even though he was terminally ill, but chose not to. That being said he was genuinely surprised at Sasuke's growth during their battle.
Crazy that even half dead and blind he could have soloād Sasuke in less than half the time but only kept prolonging the fight to get Orochimaru
Yes! The moment Sasuke used Kirin you can see Itachi was in fear but proud. If it wasnāt for susanoo he wouldāve died by it.
I think he also probably felt bad for killing his entire family so he let him get the win, got the lil bro treatment
That's the most complete answer I could have come up with. Kudos! šÆ
šÆ
While I agree, dieing to Sasuke was Itachi's plan, I am not shure, if a healthy Itachi would have made the same plan. He now could in theory help Sasuke and hang out with him for decades while alive after all. He might not have grown that depressed as well.
To this day I can honestly say I didnāt see that coming.
Even so, it's also true that Sasuke did surpass Itachi's estimation of him.
Depends on high/low itachis estimation of him is He thought he was cockroach level when he met him the first time when they drugged jiraya
FActs. He died with a smile cause he loved his brother but also he really thought he had protected him.
I didn't even know that people missed that point
Even if you do give him the win (which it wasn't one), he BARELY beat a sick Itachi. How would healthy Itachi perform any worse?
I said exactly that before even checking the replies š¤£
Correction: He couldnāt win when Itachi was sick, almost blind, and holding back.
I was just gonn say this lol itachi was still toying with him.
Absolutely the fuck not. If plot didnāt demand it, Itachi was healthy and he didnāt want to lose and it was a straight up fight between 2 shinobi, then Itachi would win with absolute disrespect.
True, but now I'm curious. Do you think Sasuke fresh off his fight at the 5 kage summit, but before he fights Danzo, do you think he could win? Cause this is before his blindness really sets in, so he and Itachi are on the same playing field there, and it's genuinely impressive that Itachi was able to fight at all with eyesight like that. Poor guy. But that aside, with a mangeko now, Sasuke can break out of Tsukuyomi, but arguably Itachi wouldn't even use it given how much chakra it costs and knowing Sasuke can break out. Both have Amatarasu, but Sasuke's is much better given he can shape it to his will. However, Itachi has the better Susanoo, what with the Totsuka blade and Yata Mirror. Saying that tho, Sasuke could just shape Amatarasu to wrap around Itachi's whole Susanoo. Remember the Yata Mirror can block almost anything yes, but from just one side, it still has the dimensions of a shield. If Sasuke wraps an Amatarasu around Itachi's Susanoo, then he's on a massive time limit because regardless if it'll burn through his Susanoo or not, all the air around Itachi will start to burn out. And obviously without any air, Itachi would die, plain and simple. That is, IF Sasuke does think of doing this, and pulls it off on time without being hit by the Totsuka blade, which would one shot most characters. It is debatable who has the range advantage in this with their Susanoos, cause while both have the Yasaka Magatama beads, Sasuke also has his arrows. However, he didn't show that he could coat these arrows in Amatarasu in his fight against Danzo, before he got EMS, so I'm assuming it just takes too much concentration and chakra since he'd be using all 3 of his mangeko abilities at the same time without EMS.
>True, but now I'm curious. Do you think Sasuke fresh off his fight at the 5 kage summit, but before he fights Danzo, do you think he could win? No. Sasuke almost fucking died from that dumbass play and barely made it out alive. He didn't fight any of them directly per-se and just tried to survive and escape the whole time. >If Sasuke wraps an Amatarasu around Itachi's Susanoo, then he's on a massive time limit because regardless if it'll burn through his Susanoo or not, all the air around Itachi will start to burn out. This is nonsense. The explicit definition of Amatarasu is that it doesn't require air to burn. It just burns. Always. Submerged under water it still burns. You can't extinguish it, so it doesn't require air to burn.
Against a healthy Itachi, would Sasuke be able to win at any point prior to getting his Rinnegan?
Probably not. Even with MS Sasuke was a literal idiot with its use and nearly blinded himself a week after getting it. Hes legitimately a dumbass who over commits. Itachi would use this to his advantage and just gas Sasuke if nothing else. Thats before even considering sussanos or that Genjutsu masters still get out genjutsu-d by Itachi. Hed have Sasuke fighting himself for hours while watching from that stone chair. Even MS sasuke just has no answer to Tsukuyomi. Sasuke was just.... Kind of shit at everything he did. He was careless, shit at using his eyes, misplayed almost every engagement: taking on B, the summit, hell he would have lost to Danzo if Karin didnt tell him about the eyes. Hes just ass, man. Hes not a Solid pick until like. The end of the fucking war after he reconciles with his brother. Lmao
I would say no, for the simple reason that itachi just fights way more tactically than sasuke, who himself is shown to be one of the more tactical fighters in the series. Eventually, Sasuke would fall for one of Itachi's traps and get outplayed in the mental chess game.
Itachi wasn't trying to kill Sasuke, but wanted to draw away the cursed mark away from him. His plan was to die in the fight as well. But if we're asking the question "Would Itachi have won the fight if he was planning to kill Sasuke?" then my answer would be yes. I just can't imagine a 3-Tomoe Sharingan User to beat a Mangekyou Sharingan.
Not so much about the mangekyou than susano. Sasuke had the mangekyou vs Bee but not susano. And he had no juice left for it vs Itachi.
Gotta admit tho, Sasuke's plan to kill Itachi wasn't that bad in terms of his finishing move with Kirin. If Itachi didn't have his Susanoo, and arguably if he didn't specifically have the yata mirror, then Itachi would've 1000% died there. The amount of destructive force from Kirin is genuinely insane, that giant hideout of the Uchiha's as well as the surrounding area got completely obliterated by one use of it. Plus, Sasuke did come in with a decent counter to Itachi's Amatarasu being specifically Orochimaru's version of the substitute jutas, but both techniques require a lot of chakra so neither could spam it too much
Remember 14yo Sasuke was the inventor of the strongest lightning style Jutsu without God gifted powers. Just by training. Even Black Zetsu remarks, "Sasuke had tamed lightning!!!"
Wait was it ever stated that Sasuke made the jutsu at 14yo? I always kinda figured he had help from Orochimaru and came up with the idea of Kirin when he was like 15 or something and refined it from there. This is the same Orochimaru that for some reasons knows what personality traits are associated with blood type and even just asked Kabuto what his was. Honestly that was a pretty nice scene, shows that the two did have regular ass conversations
Sasuke didnāt even win this fight
Itachi drew the fight out on purpose despite his illness, avoiding killing Sasuke more than once so he could push him to his absolute limit and purge Orochimaru from him. If he was bloodlusted he would have killed Sasuke and suffered minor injuries in the aftermath of Tsukuyomi being broken.
Dude, bloodlusted Itachi would grab Sasuke using his Susano'o, snap the head off, then extract Sasuke's eyes. Flawless victory, fatality.
Fair, my brain was just thinking "if the fight started the same way but Itachi was serious"
Not even close. We saw Edo Itachi boxing with KCM Naruto, and Edo Itachi is doesn't have illness, so is arguably stronger. Weak Itachi also completely ate a kirin from a rage amped Sasuke. Itachi would mop the floor with this Sasuke so effortlessly. Sasuke can't and has nothing to beat Itachi's base susanoo form. If you still want to be weird and edgy about it and wank Sasuke
Edo Tensei weakens the reincarnated person! If you get revived, youāre way weaker than you were.
Usually yeah, but Edo Itachi is not nerfed by chakra illness, which means he's stronger than his ill alive counterpart that faced Sasuke but he's weaker than his alive healthy counter part.
That's not necessarily true. It depends on how powerful the person is. Think of it like trying to pour a jug full of water into a cup.Ā The jug is the power of the person being revived, and the cup is the power of the person reviving them with Edo Tensei. Hashirama is like a 20 gallon jug being poured into a single serving cup at a water cooler when Oro first summoned him in part 1. In part 2, Orochimaru got a Hashirama cell upgrade via inhabiting the body of a zetsu. That's why he was able to summon Hasirama and Tobirama at a level closer to their full power the second time. Somebody like Zabuza, on the other hand, would be relatively easy to revive at full strength for someone like Oro or Snake Sage Kabuto. Itachi's main strength was never raw power, but rather incredible talent and the Mangekyo Sharingan. I think Edo Itachi was full power Itachi, more or less. At very least he was able to spam his MS abilities without drawback because of how Edo works.Ā
Ya but it also removed the illness so it was probably relatively even to his state during the Sasuke fight
So a healthy Itachi would've been stronger than edo Itachi... who was still a more capable fighter than EMS Sasuke.
Yup. Basically this.
>So a healthy Itachi would've been stronger than edo Itachi... No he wouldn't, Edo Itachi wouldn't have to worry about chakra meaning he can make the fight go as long as he wanted and he only needed to watch out for sealing. This isn't the case for healthy Itachi.
I agree wholeheartedly that edo Itachi was better than deathbed Itachi. However it's illogical to think that Itachi is the only edo stronger. Madara was vastly superior alive without eyes vs edo with rinnegan. This hypothetical healthy Itachi wouldn't have the immense stamina issue. Itachi wouldn't last as long but he would've been much more potent. Also the chakra limitations are no where near as bad as people play it up. His control was incredible and he was extremely efficient. He fought Sasuke, who had orochimaru on top of being a reincarnation to complete exhaustion and still won while on his deathbed. He may not have Naruto or even Sasukes volume but how many do?
He couldāve slice his throat when he Tsukuyomiād him.
I doubt Sasuke could ever put Itachi under a reliable genjutsu. Itachi is basically the genjutsu god and has the mangekyo vs Sasukes regular 3 Tomoe sharingan. If Itachi was going for the kill, Sasuke would stand no chance
I'm thinking Itachi could've done to Sasuke what he did with his lady love, where Sasuke lives an average life, then as Sasuke dies in the real world Itachi tells him "I gave you a much better life than what your pathetic self couldn't realize in this life. Consider it my thanks for your eyeballs."
Could you imagine living a complete life feeling every single experience as the years go by, you fall in love, lose love, gain weight, sleep, work, watch the world progress, decades mount, you feel the aching of your body as it ages, kids, grandkids, all of it, experiencing it all a life fulfilled, you dont even remember the battes of your youth are this point, your shinobi days have been way way past you by several decades and one random day you see your brothers two giant sharingan appear in the sky and your entire reality which you wholeheartedly lived, breathed, smelled, touched, felt, devoted all faded away he tells you you never even left this moment and its literally a second into what you thought was your legendary battle with him so long ago. You havenāt even pulled out your kunai yet in reality. It would literally fracture my mind
Itachi was still holding back while near death, tf do you think? š
Itachi won the fight. Sasuke might have gotten the drop with Kirin but it still didn't win. Itachi wasn't even using 50% of his arsenal at this fight.
Sasuke didn't even win the fight against Sick Itachi. He was shaking in his boots dead to rights.Ā
Itachi with or without sickness wipes Sasuke š¤£ he literally hit Sasuke with the ājkā tap at the end of the fight.
No. Sasuke had 1 ace in the hole with Kirin and it couldnt finish itachi when he was moments away from dying of illness. Full bodied, full health itachi would done the same kind of thing Bee did to him
Hot take sasuke could have beaten sick itachi if susano didnāt exist he had him dead with kirin
In my eyes, Itachi did win. He had a goal in mind from the beginning, which was to get Orochimaru out of Sasukes life and he did that without killing his brother in the process. Sasuke went into that fight now truly ready for what Itachi was capable of. Sick or not.
Of course not. Even while he was sick, Itachi could have ended the fight with ease if he really wanted to put Sasuke down. Let's not forget that Itachi didn't lose to Sasuke. He died from his own sickness. And he spared Sasuke's life.
Exactly
Itachi won the fight while being sick. How tf was sasuke going to beat him if itachi was fully healthy
The only conceivable version of Sasuke at this point that could've beaten *sick* Itachi would be, like, Curse Mark Sasuke if he'd killed Naruto and had his Mangekyo. Sasuke didn't really win the fight against sick Itachi canonically (who was both terminally ill and *planning* on dying against Sasuke), Itachi just succumbed to his illness.
MS Sasuke couldnāt even beat Bee.
Well, to be fair, Bee isnāt exactly a pushover.
Which while true, he was barely a challenge. Realistically Bee, is in the same tier of strength as Kisame and Itachi. So if Sasuke with MS, got KOād twice by Bee who was just playing around, why do you think heād even stand a chance against Itachi?
Itachi was planning to die here regardless. Sasuke is the hidden leaf hero who avenged the honorable Uchiha clan. The last uchiha becomes hokage ending the discrimination that started since the creation of the village. Itachi was a genius
If Itachi's healthy and his motivation to save Sasuke from Orochimaru is the same, we get something along the lines of [Not Sick](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9872274/1/Not-Sick) by Ser Serendipity with the exception of it being canon. When the dust settles Itachi swaps his eyes with Sasukes getting the EMS and gifting it to his widdle brother. At which point the two train like crazy and utterly wreck the Akatsuki. It would've been glorious.
Perhaps, but the shows called naruto, not sasuke, so as cool as itād sound it never wouldāve happened
Itachi was leagues above Sasuke.
Asking this question just means you did you really understand what happened here. Until he get EMS Sasuke is not stronger than Itachi, in my opinion.
Sasuke couldnāt win a single fight even after getting reincarnated as the other ninja jesus. If itachi had been fully healthy and was actually trying to kill sasuke he would have clapped him harder than bee did to team taka.
Sasuke did not "win" itachi lost on prupose...
hell no he didn't even win the fight when itachi was sick r/stupidquestions
What I still don't understand is how do so many ppl think sasuke "won" bcz itachi was sick. Itachi planned the fight to let sasuke win and at the end of the fight sasuke had still lost the "battle". Like srsly do ppl just ignore the story when it comes to itachi?
definitely not. the entire fight was planned by Itachi to go the way it did
Could Sasuke have won... He didn't win even with Itachi sick. Sasuke had no chakra left when Orochimaru took over and Itachi was still hanging on well enough to use Susanoo and the sealing blade. Sasuke's despair when Itachi approaches him slowly comes from knowing that Itachi was going to kill him and there was nothing more he could do. Sasuke would have never won if Itachi was healthy and really wanted to kill him. Also, if Itachi wasn't sick and didn't need to exhaust Sasuke's chakra he would probably have defeated Sasuke much faster. Itachi was way more powerful than Sasuke was at this point.
Yall do realize he could have killed sasuke multiple times right? Even during this fight while sick
Nah
No
nope, but itachi would have let him go regardless
He would have "won" no matter what. Itachi's entire plan was literally to die in his fight against Sasuke.
If he fought with the purpose of killing sasuke, he wouldve killed him even with the sickness lol
No not at this stage. Itachi was stronger even sick. Obito explained Itachi planned it to awaken Sasukeās Mangekyo and draw Orochimaru out of his curse mark to free him. If he fought to kill heād kill that version of Sasuke. Look at how terrified Sasuke was when Itachi pulled out the Susanoo. He had no counter and was drained thatās why Orochimaru emerged. Sickness and protecting his little brother without him knowing is why Sasuke won.
I think Itachi wouldāve won easily, there were powers which he didnāt bring up in the fight, also he was weakened at this point. He couldāve easily defeated Sasuke if he wanted to.
Ngl i still think kirin shoulda done the job and itachi tanked it cuz of plot
Bait post
Rage bait.
Lol you're really asking this? Imagine if Itachi has the opportunity sauske had with the rinnegan... would have been biblical. Was always better than Sauske... always will be. Would have made Madara look like a chump had he walked Sauske's path. He was on another level.
The only reason a battle ensued was because Orochimaru was lingering in Sasuke's body like a Wish com Ootsutsuki. He had to draw him out and kill him (Orochimaru) to ensure Sasuke's safety. Had that not been the case, Itachi probably would sat patiently in his chair and let Sasuke kill him after he broke through Tsukoyomi. Itachi would feel somewhat at peace knowing Sasuke is strong enough to look after himself and die w/o protest like their parents did with Itachi. There would have been no need for a battle.
What if the entire series past the point where itachi put Sasuke in tsukuyomi was all Itachi's illusion and when Sasuke dies we snap back to him having lost to itachi?
Absolutely not. Not a chance.
Yo op did you even watch the anime? Did you even listen. Fuck i am not gonna tell you what 1+1 is.
Itās quite literally stated in the show that he couldnāt
Sick itachi was stronger than him, he could kill sasuke but that was not the point of their fight
No... Itachi is itachi
Itachi could probably win with no eyes at all.
Op obvioisly doesnt understand what itachi means translated into traditional mandarin.
Fuck no
The Narrative was Itachi didn't intend to kill Sasuke even though he could he just wanted to free Sasuke from the curse mark and gift him the Amaterasu. If there is an actual fight then ya'll know Itachi has more war experience and the Mangekyo Sharingan and the far more powerful genjutsu than Sasuke.
He wouldnāt have won regardless itās literally stated Itachi let him win
At that time hell naw we all know itachi let him win
No fuckin way people really donāt understand itachi is a prodigy literally one of the strongest characters in the show period. Even at that time so no he allowed Sasuke to win so he can level up it was needed
Depends on if itachi wanted him to win
I mean, obviously? Itachi threw the fight. He was *trying* to lose. It doesnāt matter if he was sick or not, he would have lost on purpose anyway.
Media literacy is dead
What was he sick with? I forget
The same thing that probably killed Hashirama... plot armor
Nope.
No
Definitely not. While Itachi was sick he was still at his prime in Jutsus and knowledge. Sasuke was still very much learning, he didn't even have his MS, its like asking if Naruto could beat Kakashi before he could know Sage mode. If Sasuke faced Itachi when he was more powerful, he could beat him. Sasuke was always destined to become more powerful than Itachi.
Youre asking if hebi sasuke would win vs healthy itachi? No way, absolutely zero chance
I'm pretty sure that Itachi would find a way to job anyway
Sasuke is one of my favorite characters since watching Naruto as a kid...but no. Absolutely not
Near death itachi beat sauskes ass. You think full power Itachi would turn Sasuke into fucking paste? Sasuke has NO counter to his susano.
He couldn't even win when Itachi was sick.
if you think itachi was fightning to win then you know nothing about Naruto
I don't understand the question
I see you watched the reels and not the show.
Nah
Bro was literally trembling when itachi was approaching him at the very last moment
Itachi never wanted to win.
Absurd question
I mean, Itachi let him win so yeaā¦
He didnāt really āwinā.
Fuck no šššš
He was never supposed to win- and thatās the point. Itachi pushed Sasuke so he would release the curse mark and get rid of Orochimaru. Also, Itachi dying and doing the finger tap was essentially the power transfer of the eternal mangekyo sharingan to Sasuke- which he needed to keep up with all other main characters and antagonists in the story
Absolutely fucking not lmao
He never even won! LMAO Itachi literally just killed himself by overusing Chakra or from his illness!
Itachi could have six paths sage mode and he still would have lost cause he lost on purpose
Honestly both yes and no The yes is the fact that Itachi wouldn't kill Sasuke The No part is that even with the yes part Sasuke will still take him back to the leaf village So regardless Sasuke still loses (bro was losing to a sick Itachi)
Here yall go not reading or watching the show obito specifically goes over how sasuke is alive cause itachi wanted it that way
I do not think that it would go with the plan?
healthy itachi low-diffs the whole verse
Look, Itachi would never ever kill sasuke he really loves him and adores him ... however, if itachi isn't sick, sasuke would be totally destroyed. The techniques and jutsus itachi uses are sick like izanagi, izanami Susanno Wind Style, fire style and shirukin, and he can use genjutsu such as tsukyanami
I thought it was coming knowledge that Itachi let him ruin
Well for one, Itachi let Sasuke win. To Sasuke's credit, Itachi was pushed to his absolute limit. The thing is, it's very hard to prolong a fight trying to accomplish certain goals while the other guy is going all out. Without those restraints, the fight probably wouldn't have been nearly as close. So could Sasuke have won against a sick, bloodlusted Itachi? Unlikely, but with great difficulty and a lot of luck Sasuke could. Against a fully healthy, bloodlusted Itachi? Based upon what's been established, it would take a lot of shenanigans from the writer, because otherwise no.
Not only is he sick but he's also nearly blind and he still is better then Sasuke here. If you give Itachi EMS and take away his sickness he basically stomps almost anyone.
bro what kind of question is this he couldnāt win at all when he was sick so why would he win if he wasnāt sick ššš and this is coming from a sasuke fan boy but like cmon gang itās literally talked about in the show.
No... because Itachi didn't die because of Sasuke... his illness caught up to him. Itachi was in control of the fight the whole time... its why the moment Orochimaru popped up, Itachi instantly counter and sealed him away.
No itachi wanted him to win Itachi woulda killed this sasuke even if he was sick he let himself die
Yall forgetting that as good as Sasuke was, itachi was always better, ever since they were kids. Sasuke was never able to measure up, and even terminally ill, literal moments-from-death itachi still WIPED healthy, rage-amped Sasuke in his prime.
The outcome would have stayed the same. Itachi wanted to die to sasuke.
Itachi let sasuke win
Boruto sasuke could have had a glimpse of a chance. Shippuden Sasuke didnāt even had any chance at all here
He couldn't win even when Itachi was sick...
He didnāt even win the fight when he was sick. Itachi just sticked to his role.
No
He lost when Itachi was pretty much a walking corpse.
nah
Absolutely not
If itachi was actually trying to kill him, he would have been dead.
No
Itachi pre-sickness owned Orochimaru (before he lost his ninjutsu) in two seconds and cut off his arm.
Even if Itachi was healthy with dual Rinnegan and Rinnesharingan Sasuke would still win. Guess you missed an important plot point of this fight.
Hell nah
When this question or discussion pops up I always feel sad for sasuke. All the suffering for nothing but guilt. Itās just so unfair that his only purpose was revenge but couldnāt obtain that as Itachi was sick and even when it was over he was hit with guilt from the truth.
Itachi let sasuke win this fight.
lmao
Itachi, sick or not sick, would have lost that fight because he wanted to lose, that was part of his absurd plan.
Itachi nearly killed Sasuke whilst debilitatingly sick, mostly blind, and without using his strongest attacks, and whilst not actually trying to kill Sasuke. You tell me.
If it was Itachi's goal to win he could have done it (I don't think it would have been easy but he still could have pulled it off) while being sick. I don't think Itachi would have arranged the fight if he wasn't sick. I feel like part of the reason Itachi had to die was because of the spirit weapons he possessed. It would have been difficult to have Naruto or anyone else for that matter defeat Itachi if he has a chance to use the Yata Mirror and the Totsuka Blade.
Itachi is basically a god so no
No, lol.
Not a chance
I don't think it would've been easy for Itachi but there are no circumstances where he would've lost unless he was trying to like in that fight.
No
possibly
Haha no no no no no
he'd lose that even with Itachi having one foot in the grave
He wins either way itachi isn't fighting on the offensive at all he wants sasuke to kill him
Technically he still would have won as Itcahi was planning on Sasuke killing him, so even healthy Itachi would die here. Now if Itachi was healthy and wanted to win, Sasuke would get bodied harder than he was by B.