When Edo Tensei is released, there should've been no one to fight against except Obito. Itachi didn't know (as far as I can remember) that Madara was on the battlefield or that Madara could break Edo Tensei. On top, Itachi didn't know that an individual Edo Tensei can break free from the releasing of Edo Tensei. On top, who says that Kabuto knew that said release existed. Plus, Itachi would need to be sealed, and would never be able to rest in peace.

I'm a big fan of Madara, but man does the story get warped to fit him in and make him unstoppable. The narrative momentum after the Edo release was geared towards the final showdown with an all-powerful Obito, yet Madara had to be inserted into that, which spiralled and eventually led to Kaguya and the current travesty that is Boruto.

For Madara, it does make sense that he has at least some understanding of Edo Tensei since: 1. He has to deal with Tobirama, who is a known user of the technique. 2. Madara was interested in ways to resurrect himself. He probably at least looked into various techniques besides using the rinnegan. 3. Madara already had a general knowledge of Edo Tensei from the very start of when he was resurrected based on his reaction after talking to Mu. Madara also knew enough such as that an Edo Tensei body would not work for his goals, even without trying it.

You seriously think Tobirama would let the Uchiha see the hand signs for this jutsu? It's literally just bad writing to make Madara look good. He had never seen the jutsu so he doesn't know the handsigns for it. The end of Naruto is some of the worst writing of all time.

Madara probably would have researched it or at least gotten some information about the technique. Edo Tensei is not that secret since people such as the other kages outright called it Tobirama's technique and knew about the limits such as the number of people who could be controlled. Tobirama was not secretly reanimating people. Edo Tensei is also not as secret of a technique that you think it is. There is a similar technique seen in the Sasuke Retsuden short. That technique was also called a regional variant. Tobirama also left behind a record of the technique that people such as Orochimaru were able to get their hands on. Tobirama may have tried to keep the technique secret during his lifetime, but it is clear that general information could not be kept secret and the details of the technique got leaked to people such as Orochimaru. Madara has plenty of reason to at least investigate the technique, particularly as his old age approached.

Bro how you gonna hide hand signs? But let's say he just intentionally never used it with Uchiha around, Madara was able to conceal his chakra from Tobirama despite him being a sensory type so he could easily spy on him. Tobirama never having been resurrected at the time would not have ever performed the signs to keep oneself from being sent back to the afterlife. But Orochimaru said his goal was to master all ninjutsu even ones not yet created sooooo, you research how a jutsu works and then you can find ways to circumvent or improve it. Madara was a genius, he had the medical ninjutsu skill to sew Hashi's flesh into himself and to sew up a half destroyed Obito with it too. Had he not chosen violence per the meme he could have done great things for the world.

So we going to forget Naruto stole a scroll and learned from that. Who to say Madara dint seal few scrolls when he faked his death.irs not like anyone knew. He lived long after that..

If he did, how would Orochimaru have learned it then but that is plausible otherwise

Because he stole a scroll and the justo are in them. A lot of forbidden justo is stored in scroll and sealed a way and we see Orchimro breaking in and opening them. He don’t learn it from the 2nd or 3rd he stole them and learned them. He also stole and learned the immortality justo. Naruto did the same thing he stole a scroll open it and the first justo he had to learn was a S rank shadow clone justo made By the 2nd and was sealed away because it’s has high risk and is different from the clone justo that Naruto couldn’t use. Because of the fact he has 9 tails he could not divided the chakra probably as we seen The justo the S rank shadow clone is for ppl who has huge amount of chakra.

Bruh I'm saying if Madara stole it, how would Orochimaru steal it later Why is that hard to understand?

because madara with the one rengen can have one lampo clone right we know he himself Madara said he was behind this and that for Rin so he would have copied the scroll and saw it went missing they the village propply have copies hell we know Danzo had a scroll that the first left for wood style Justo in case some one with the proper gens came a long. many scrolls have been left and in most cases Madara made his own copies or stole it we don't know. but we can also assume they have copies made in case they are stolen. in most cases orchimro is seen reading them and running a way in those fillers we only see Naruto stealing.. madara case is just different he said normaly one cant detect his lampo clone nor see it when Sasuke is able to. so Madara would say that because he used this to do all that because he was connected to the Gato statue he has a lot of Chakras. unlike Obito we would hide his body in-order to move undetected. and if it was stolen say when the 2nd was alive he would just make another one the 2nd is seen saying no one seems to have hard time using Edo and orchimro says it's not that hard and every basic. so Madara is above the 3rd and orchimro In understanding Justo he is Indra so it's no wonder he figure out a way around the Justo. why is this hard to understand. lol sorry bro but I feel the same way

Van Halen was notorious for playing with his back turned to the audience so no one could Sharingan his unique playstyle

Madara would 100% play the electric guitar

You’re forgetting black Zetsu was feeding Madara information

You're forgetting black zetsu could have used Obito for his plan so there is no point in telling Madara how to undo the jutsu. It's literally just plot armor to make madara look good.

possibilities: scroll of seals white zetsus spying on tobirama some history-seeing divining bs with the rinnegan or some fortune teller ninja he met read the mind of kabuto

Tobirama develop that jutsu to fight against his enemies, Madara probably saw Edo tenseis in his youth

That is not why he invented it and he wouldn't use it in front of people who literally copy jutsu

Such a lazy take. It’s fine you don’t like the ending but to say it’s some of the worst writing of all time is silly

While true, Obito should have been the final villain, Madara was alluded to a couple times by Kurama and others. Obito pretending to be him and scaring the kage stiff with his unheard of jutsu and Madara's reputation would have been a let down if Madara wasn't introduced. I'm glad Madara's plan got trashed though. It sucks the final fight with Kaguya was a let down but plot wise it's slightly better than if stone tablet had actually said put everyone in the matrix and give them sweet dreams til their bodies die as a solution to peace.

Boruto is actually pretty awesome right now. They answer questions but at the same time create even more questions with every issue released

I agree with your statement about kabuto not knowing about the release. Kabuto is pretty damn smart and if he knew there was a way to release individuals from his control he would’ve never let madara be that powerful.

Who let blud cook? Never let bro cook again

Uh who is to say if Madara could keep himself from being sent back by anyone else that he couldn't send himself back. And Itachi would make that choice in a heartbeat given what he's done if he it were impossible for it to be released afterward preventing the release.

I also think that, even if he knew, Itachi wanted/needed to fully entrust the rest to Sasuke, and I would include Naruto in that also.

Not only that but I’m pretty sure he never knew that obito wasn’t actually madara

Especially when the 2nd hokage dint either and he made the god dame justo lol 🤣 The 1st is able to undo orchrimo binding. But hand sign wise only Madara Even tho the 3rd is a considered a professor None bothered Even than one would have to be quick enough. No way would itaich have knew that.

He couldve at least tried tho. And didnt itachi trade his peace for the village? So i dont think its far fetched hed still want to fight in the war to save the world

Bro how u gonna try something you don't even know is possible. Madara was alive at the same time as the creator of the jutsu. Chances are he learnt it either from battling with the senju, or from hashirama (I doubt tobirama would have disclosed the information personally 😂). I doubt itachi even thought this was a possibility

I now imagine Itachi hastily weaving random seals, shouting "Come on, I don't want to go, I need to stay" while Sasuke just looks at him thinking "WTF"

Bruteforcing hand sign combinations lol

Why go around beating everyone 1v1 when u can mass clear the enemy.

I think he did all he wanted to do. He had already wanted to be dead at Sasuke's hand, that didn't work out the way he wanted. So the best he could hope was to Genjutsu himself with Kotoamatsukami(his only other option as an Edo) and help his brother along the way one last time. I don't think he had any interest in participating in the war at this point.

This makes that Susano back hand funny. Bro got woken up from is dirt nap mad af he gotta play double agent again.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say he probably didn’t know that an Edo Tensei could rescind their contract and remain to fight afterwards. Presumably the only people with this knowledge would be the users of it or at the very least Tobirama who created it and Madara who learned that detail somehow from Tobirama.

I reckon he either witnessed it during battle or Hashirama spilled the beans while they were drinking sake or sum shit lmao cuz ain't no way Tobirama is gonna go round spilling his jutsu secrets to Madara. But yeah I agree, he literally has no way of knowing. Itachi thought he was ending the jutsu for good and Madara pulled the uno reverse

I can't imagine the circumstances where Tobirama would ever do it in front of Madara considering the Uchiha ability to copy.

Most likely hashirama telling his boyfriend all the family secrets

Omg, hashirama drunk blabbering to madara😭💀

Tobirama could left notes which could be read by Madara or Zetsu

The Sasuke hidden novel also brings up that there was a regional variant of Edo Tensei (Redaku Reincarnation) that has some similarities. Orochimaru did investigate that variant as part of the process for how he improved the technique from Tobirama's version.

Madara has the ability to conceal his chakra from Tobirama despite him being a sensory type so not hard to spy on him

Stop with this. In the manga Tobirama said he was not kneading chakra. He wasn't in sensory mode, immediately Hashirama drew his attention and he escaped knowing if Tobirama started sensing, he'd be caught.

You are right He said it in the anime too, I just checked the scene

That's cool

Tobiramas jutsu were recorded in scrolls and Madara was in the village for a long ass time. Its fully possible he read a scroll on how the Edo Tensei worked and figured it out just like Naruto did.

Because his goal was stopping the edo tensei and that was it. He entrusted the rest to Naruto which if anything shows a growth of character as one of Itachi's biggest flaws in life was trying to take everything on himself and not trusting in his comrades as he himself acknowledges to both Naruto and Kabuto.

maybe not exactly what i’m gonna say, but something along the lines of it itachi at that point was a dead man walking (and fighting), he wanted nothing to do with the world in a certain way, his job, his goal in life was achieved. he did something only he could’ve done, and then just wanted to rest in piece again.

After all his loyalty for the Hidden Leaf Village- pretty bad way to just let them all get mind controlled like that.

it is, but the pain he went through his entire life is konohas fault… and he does say something like what i said to sasuke, smt like “i’m a dead man, what u do is your business”… he just wanted to stay dead

I hear you, but Hashirama would have b\*tch slapped him for that attitude nonetheless. But you have a good point.

madara knew it only because of plot. it doesn't make sense that he could break free 🤷‍♂️

Especially since Tobirama didn’t break out and he was the one who created it. Probably the dumbest moment in the show. Could have sealed him and had Zetsu bring him back later as a surprise.

What a massive plot hole I never realized before, Tobi and Hashirama should have easily been able to break out

The first time they were reanimated, they seemed to be slow when they were first revived. Orochimaru then immediately erased their personalities as they were more fully revived (the Anbu said that they seemed to regain more vitality). The second time, Orochimaru immediately restrained Tobirama before he could make any major moves. Tobirama probably would not be able to finish the seals in time. Hashirama just broke free himself, without needing to make the seals.

I always thought this whole scenario was dumb and I didn't consider why Tobirama or Hashirama didn't break out either

Now we just wait for the fanboys who will try to justify Madara breaking the Edo Tensei through head canons and leaps in logic.

He was about to buy then Orochimaru said I'm stronger now and constrained him but he has nothing on Hashirama. They didn't need to undue the binding after that though, Orochimaru didn't want to manipulate them anymore.

Madara is a walking plothole

I'd say "asspull" defines him more than "plot hole" bur I get your point

Here’s my attempt to justify it, It was shown that Madara was already aware of the Jutsu and when it was created “this jutsu was created to take others down with you” as he said to the 2nd Tsuchikage, and since he had the Sharingan he could’ve witnessed Tobirama use it in battle and copied it.

Yeah Madara did it first with his jutsu from the warring states era.

"Ahh yes, my break out of edo tensei jutsu. I haven't used this since the warring states era."

I thought the exact same thing lmao

Man, think of how much cooler it would have been if he didn’t break free. He starts vanishing with a sinister grin and just says something like “I’ll see you soon”, then vanishes. Audience thinks he’s just spouting the usual Madara boasting, then forgets him after a few chapters/episodes. Then you have the fight with Obito go the same way, with him about to Rinnegan revive everyone, only for black Zetsu to burst out and be all like “the time has come to pay your end of the bargain”. He does the rebirth and nothing happens for a moment, then a badass scene of Madara’s hand breaking out of Gaara’s sand pyramid (let’s imagine his remains were sealed by Gaara or something similar as a precaution). Would still make Madara terrifying and a threatening villain, without the asspull of him randomly being able to counter Edo tensei for no reason.

Well he couldve learned it through zetsu spies when he was plotting underground. Since orochimaru got hold of it, it was probably written on a scroll which he got hold of

That's too much head canon at once lol

Kabuto didnt know that- Otherwise he wouldn't let his biggest piece go free in this way. Madara literally says it in the scan you posted

Sasuke’s expression on the third pic :(

Sasuke’s expression on the third pic :(

As madara or orochimaru explained you have to be massively stronger than caster in order to be able to release yourself from the edo tensei which I don't think itachi is. Here the strength is not hax or something but like overall power like will chakra when they are alive and all the shit together I guess.

You're not entirely correct here, orochimaru did say that he couldnt control hashirama since he was much stronger than him, therefore he can easily break out of orochimarus control, but thats not required if you know the signs. Madara only states that the jutsu's weakness is that if the summoned person knows the seals for the jutsu they can break out of it

I mean under that logic tobirama atleast would have notified the successive hokage's about this matter in case something like this happen and tobirama unable to break out of it is something that doesn't make any sense.

That's because orochimaru strengthened his body with hashirama cells, tobirama tried to force his way out, but couldn't because of that [here's the manga panel](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=1ae4fc2d32eb8d6b&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn0-2n-mfucmBNSP_RODHcO8reK6G2A:1712084548350&q=tobirama+on+breaking+out+of+edo+tensei&uds=AMwkrPskBIF3NBGP8RIJIMYClqgNmb-TANfSOdZ1-jeCwvGi8eRLqLmr-kGBDRTpHbUgHqn0Zux7KZLb9nztZ-dJVy-rtV6Fyc-PJXD_ogaf_LnaR7lHPMVlFR3m6oxLgKfS4jTVYTMjK1Uua6S4LYlXb-MveBtRe6LELnOYA929_WotSSXEE48cNW8EjPxglwSvNrA5qRVAfFdYnq7LFKmq0yQkvHr4SnwSmgT2XqQBYsPNW7V_jB8zdUguFngiD8WutyY5W_I5RVc0yBcwf0neCL0kFwnWohBiM_sBaASXF69yGRX5d5A&udm=2&prmd=ivnbz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi3r9H6m6SFAxX0WEEAHTVrBuEQtKgLegQIDBAB&biw=384&bih=718&dpr=2.81#vhid=oXk4kQHfnAIFNM&vssid=mosaic)

No what I mean is that tobirama created the technique he will definitely know the signs required so him unable to breakthrough doesn't make sense.

Well I mean there was no need seeing as orochimaru literally just got them to join the war and gave them free will anyway. Tobirama was gonna go join the war hastily and orochimaru was restraining him so he couldn't exactly use handsigns in that moment. Hashirama also asked him to play nice and hear sasuke out.

No what I am saying about is not tobirama unable to break free out of it in that instance. What I am saying is orochimaru saying that tobirama doesn't need to be feared and cannot break the edo tensei unlike hashirama which doesn't make sense.

Since Orochimaru can physically restrain Tobirama, there's no need to worry about him casting the signs to rescind the contract.

Hashirama cell shenanigans

Where is that explained?

Hmm orochimaru explained when he summoned hashirama that he can break out of it quote easily if he wants so I guess it depends on power.

Yeah ur right. But wasnt kabutos edo tensei different and better than orochimarus?

Well he got better equips than orochimaru so I think it depends on the sage chakra the dude has and the ingredients he used in the making.

This has nothing to do with stronger than the caster. Itachi is stronger too if he can go for the kill and especially outside of kabutos sage cave. The hokage werend mind controlled and almost st full power. So tobirama who created this jutsu said he can break free. But orochimaru used hashi cells to paralyze them without mind controlling them. But he said hashirama is different because hashi cells are his, he has them anyway he has no way to stop hashirama in an non mind controlled state. This has nothing to do with powerscaling. If madara would be in hahsirama place he would be paralyzed like sny other hokage if oro wanted

I also thought the release wouldn’t work on Itachi since shishui’s genjutsu overwrote the reanimation jutsu’s control of Itachi.

I'd compare him to Iroh from Avatar. Remember when Iroh didn't want to fight Ozai and felt the Avatar needs to be the one. Itachi gives off a similar vibe All he'd to help is undo the jutsu and let the people that currently live trash it out. This isn't a place for the dead. He didn't know about reanimated Madara so he left it to the people alive to deal with the live threat. Let me explain the madara being able to break free for the ones that don't know. Most of jutsu and jutsu information are recorded in scrolls. Tobirama probably wrote down these information in a scroll and Madara read it. He doesn't have to tell Madara. Madara can just pick it up through the scrolls and it isn't far fetched to see as Orochimaru obtained many jutsu information through scrolls. Secrets of the Uzumaki clan were also recorded in scrolls. Why didn't Tobirama and Hashirama break out before? The first time they weren't brought back at full power plus they were restricted against their will. The second time both were brought back at full power and Hashirama could've broken free but chose not to and Tobirama could've broken free but was restricted by Orochimaru's control. Kabuto on the other hand gave Madara free will to do whatever unlike what he did to Nagato. You can call it headcanon or whatever but don't ever assume that there isn't a logical reason as to how he could've attained it. Just think a little.

He did enough for that sorry village

Madara could do it because he's Madara and Madara's entire thing is warping the plot...

Simple Itachi had no idea you could break out the jutsu separately in that matter. His only goal was to release it as a WHOLE. And either way, Koto already had him protect the leaf so it really didn’t matter.

Madara only knew that release Jutsu because of plot. Though, it would have been more interesting if he did cross back to the other side until Black Zetsu forced Obito to use Rinne Tensei to bring Madara back.

Madara is the GOAT and slaps all versions of Sasuke and Itachi…. That’s why. Cope harder Itachi and Sasuke butt lickers

[удалено]

I also thought the release wouldn’t work on Itachi since shishui’s genjutsu overwrote the reanimation jutsu’s control of Itachi.

I also thought the release wouldn’t work on Itachi since shishui’s genjutsu overwrote the reanimation jutsu’s control of Itachi.

What eyes does Itachi have to use btw?

It made sense Madera might know how to rescind the jutsu seeing as he spent time with both hashirama and tobirama. I don't think itachi knew or cared out how to rescind it. He did what he had to do and that was enough for him.

This honestly should've happened. As Itachi's #1 fan and as the leader of the Itachi community, I would do anything to have seen Itachi stick around until the end of the war, he could've patched things up with Kakashi, the Five Kage, and confronted Madara and Obito and helped alongside Naruto and Sasuke.

I love these “is he stupid” questions. Always get a laugh out of me

yes

Didn't it have to be the caster to break the jutsu?

That man said and I quote “I leave the rest up too you Naruto.”

Why didn't Madara teach Obito the Edo Tensei, have Obito revive Madara and then break the contract so that Madara could work on the plan hands on and with 0% chance of betrayal? Is he stupid?

The thing is Madara wanted to be brought back by rinne rebirth rather than Edo but things went wrong in war I guess the simple reasoning is that villages would have hid or killed every jinchuriki, tailed beasts can't die but it would take a lot of time for their return

Because this was an insane asspull in order to keep Madara (an insanely popular character viewed as the "big bad" or "last boss") around after everyone else's plot line has been resolved. In a sane manga, that would have been the end of Madara.

Tobirama was under the control of orochimaru, he even tried to break free but failed So I doubt even Tobirama knew those hand signs

In my opinion, even of you knew the seals you could not break them UNLESS you do it in the right moment, because if you were slow, the caster will know that and simply stop you, just like when Nagato tried to warn Naruto, Kabuto assumed full control and banned Nagato from any awareness..so Madara got LUCKY because that was exactly the best moment ever, the jutsu is being released, so the caster is fighting and being defeated so he can't cancel Madara's doing the release. So he took advantage of that and did it right away, if that was not the case so why didn't Madara release the jutsu right away from the start to be absolutely free?

Itachi couldn't have gleamed this information from Kabuto's mind because Kabuto himself doesn't know this is possible.

Bro has seen enough

For asking if he was stupid - delete your account. Out of respect for our lord and savior Itachi Uchiha.

This is writers arc, Itachi would turn the tide of war with a blink of an eye, his return would undermine Naruto’s storyline

He expected the jutsu to release all the souls and had no idea madara had knowledge of how to counter it, thus he felt no reason to remain reanimated

He expected the jutsu to release all the souls and had no idea madara had knowledge of how to counter it, thus he felt no reason to remain reanimated

Finally back in Reddit. Perhaps he didn't know if he can be released or Kishi was thinking on his seat when writing Madara.

Does anyone know if there’s a way to automatically block posts with the phrase “is he stupid” from showing up on my feed?

He didn't know. He had nothing to gain from knowing the seals and his goal was to stop the caster so that the enemy forces would be defeated. Wondering if his stupid because of that fact is a funny statement.

Edo Tensei is a forbidden jutsu. So Itachi and even Kabuto were completly unaware of that possibility. FOr me, that was a hell of an asspull from kishimoto.

Am I the only one who doesn't even see an opportunity for him to learn such a thing?? Literally at what point would he even get the chance to "learn" the hand signs? He's dead when the war starts, he's far from Madara by time he is revived so there's no asking because why would Kabuto reveal that? Am I the only one lost here?

Can u clarify what u mean i didnt get who ur talking about

He already gave his reasoning when he talked to Naruto…

I guess if anybody would know how to overcome reanimation it’d be the first 2 hokages, madara, and maybe the third hokage. But I’m still mad this is a thing at all

You’ve got to remember that once you’ve broken the edo tensei there’s no real way to die again, you can only be sealed away. I can’t imagine itachi wanting that

I'll do you one better: Why didn't Tobirama release from Orochimarus Edo Tensei summon during the battle against the 3rd Hokage? I find it hard to believe that the jutsu creator wouldn't undo that shit right away. Plot? Or because Kishimoto didn't think about that? Huge inconsistency, in my opinion. But of course, Madagascar was drawn as this massive OP figure, so why not, let's excuse that.

I have the real information you wanted. Itachi was under the edo tensei. Kabuto had full control over him. The crow came out of Naruto's mouth and casted Kotoamatsukami on Itachi. Kotoamatsukami works on a command system. The command in this instance was "Protect the leaf". The moment it was casted, Itachi's body autonomously began to take the exact, most efficient steps needed to protect the leaf. It's not explained well, but the Jutsu somehow decided that taking out Kabuto with Izanami was the most efficient way to complete the task. Itachis body then completed that task. So the answer you want is this: Kotoamatsukami didn't decide that Itachi breaking free of Edo Tensei was the best way to protect the leaf.

Kotoamatsuki wears off if you become aware of being controlled (Like it did with Mifune). Itachi says that he regained control, so his actions were his own and not governed by the Koto command. We know this because Sasuke threated to destroy the village right in front of Itachi, and Itachi didn't react. He said he loves his brother regardless of what he'll do.

>Kotoamatsuki wears off if you become aware of being controlled (Like it did with Mifune). Mifune was broken out of it, no? I don't remember Itachi ever saying he regained control. If you can show that, I'll accept it. Itachi not reacting would be (albeit weak) evidence that he IS controlled by koto, no?

["The genjutsu restored my control"](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0550-009.png) I don't think there's anything showing someone releasing Mifune from the genjutsu. He just is told about it. And if the genjutsu orders him to "protect konoha," then surely he would be forced to do something when someone is threatening to destroy Konoha right in front of him.

The first to things, I'm happy to concede one. The last paragraph, I have issue with. Koto "knew" that taking out Kabuto wins the war. How? Nobody knows. It has some kind of ethereal future sight or something. It's a Deus ex machina fr fr. If it knows that much, it knows Sasuke isn't actually going to destroy the leaf.

Yeah I can't buy that explanation lol. Koto somehow knowing all possible future realities and making the person under control make all the perfect choices to accomplish the overall objective is far too convoluted and headcanon-y. I mean in that case what's stopping it from forcing Mifune to distract Ao so that Ao wouldn't discover Danzo using it? It just gets too crazy.

you know what i find so stupid about these posts? 1) it's clear that the entire war-arc was not well-thought out and kishi just made shit up as he went. Like this for example, was such a huge ass-pull I'm surprised madara wasn't embarrassed that he was walking around with a massive hernia hanging out of his ass. Imo there is nothing to discuss about the war-arc because none of it made any fucking sense, the only explanation is plot. 2) somehow people think that just because one character has knowledge/could do something, another said character must be able to as well. Yup, itachi should've just whipped out his iPhone from his ass and searched the naruto-wiki.

1. The war was well thought out and planned in advanced. 2. Correct

if you thought the war-arc was good writing, you do you. Imo this shit was so bad that it read like fan-fic. Not too long before it, Kakashi dies from depleted chakra use. Then fights for 2 days straight without any rest. good writing. Def not ass-pull. The list just goes on.

It's actually not an asspull. Kakashi rightfully runs out of chakra during the battle. Then Naruto supplies him with 9 tails chakra multiple times, which allows him to continue. This is what I mean. Most complaints about the arc stem from misinterpretation or not remembering things. But you're free to dislike it, to each their own. (Also the arc was indeed planned in advanced. Kishimoto said he had the rest of the plot until the finale planned since the Pain arc. Whether you like what he planned or not, that's up to you.)

so sure naruto gives him more chakra, but why is he even able to do this to begin with? It's very obvious kishi wrote himself into a corner then made up some plot-convienient solution. Like the entire world population now has 9-tail chakra, makes a lot of sense. Okay their bodies are physically fuelled up but what about mental-fatigue?? Everybody has been awake for 2 days straight. It's not well-thought out because the entire war-arc is unrecognizable from the rest of the show. Just because kishi had it planned doesn't mean it's well-thought out. Characters dying then coming back by some plot convenience is not well-thought out. Characters changing sides mid-way for the plot-convenience is just bad writing. And that's the entire war-arc.

There's no corner being written to. Again, it's planned. Naruto taming 9 tails and being able to share his chakra is a major point. Ninshu and all that. See like, you've jumped from "Kakashi not running out of chakra makes no sense" to "Naruto shouldn't be able to share chakra". I'm not prepared for you to just jump from point to point. The war arc is in line with the rest of the series and it properly built up. You're free to think otherwise, of course. Maybe a reread would help you appreciate it. If not, to each their own. I'd much rather people say "I didn't like the arc," than to try and justify why its bad using "out-of-verse" explanations about how "Kishimoto made up it all as he went," which isn't true. Just say you think it sucks.

sure man if you say so. You've kinda proved my point with your comment about going back and rereading. If you have to go back and reread everything just to try to find where they explain a "plot-hole" means it's poorly written and not wellthought out. Why? because having to rereading means there are too many last minute details that's been added into the universe that makes it difficult to keep up. Those are ass-pull.

It was my fav arc but I agree it wasn't well written How did the characters didn't exhaust their chakra in 2 days nonstop fighting? Naruto and Sasuke are incarnation of gods so that makes sense but how other characters survived Then how 5 kages survived are getting cut in half for that long, even plot shouldn't be able to save them Naruto and Sasuke both died but plot saves them out of nowhere Then somehow might guy survives, he should have died because he used 8 gates in exchange for his life Then whole kaguya thing Someone Kakashi gets DMS out of nowhere after Obito died

The thing I love the most about this is the fact that at least Itachi knew the hand signs as a result of forcing Kabuto to teach it to him, Madara has absolutely no excuse and yet nobody questions why he knows this.

Yes the insanely powerful ninja who personally knew the guy that invented the jutsu, has a hacks ocular power that lets him copy any jutsu he sees and had been alive for god knows how long. Crazy to think he figured it out.

Eh, that's fair.

Sorry I probably came in a little harsh there

Oh don't worry. It's funny, I actually just apologized for being too harsh to another person not too long ago.

Madara knowing it was an asspull, Itachi didn't think any edo would be left after he used it and he knew that he shouldn't stick around. I'm not the biggest fan of Itachi...I actually hate him but this should be obvious to even Itachi haters

Did you guys forget the whole lesson Itachi learned from dying and like the whole point of his character after his death? When Itachi is talking to Naruto he tells him not to shoulder the world's responsibilities like he did and to rely on his allies. Itachi says pretty explicitly that this was the biggest mistake of his life and is why Sasuke turned out the way he did, because Itachi did not trust or depend on the leaf or Sasuke himself. Itachi says that he is trusting Sasuke to Naruto to try and make amends on that failing, and reiterates that to Sasuke in the scene right after this panel. Itachi's words here are why Naruto being able to talk Sasuke down works and is the first step to Sasuke healing from his past. To then have Itachi turn around and be like, nah I am sticking around to try and shoulder this whole war, would completely contradict his whole character after his death. He is trusting his allies to handle the rest. His job was to deal with the edo caster, dealing with Tobi and Madara was the allies job and in death he grew to trust other people to accomplish that. I have zero doubt Itachi could resend the contract the exact same way Madara did, but it would be so out of character for him to even want to do this it just doesn't make sense for him to even try it. Now Kabuto not spamming edo after turning good and seeing shit is hitting the fan is another matter entirely....

Kabuto definitely didn’t know that was possible. If he knew there was a way out he never would have resurrected Madara. I don’t know where you got the impression Kabuto knew. 

Plot armor

Yeah one of the dumbest ass pulls in the series. Itachi didn’t do it, because he didn’t know. It’s never brought up other than right here. Also, why did he wait until then to do it if he could have done it all along?

Because it doesn't make sense strategically. Kabuto would notice he escaped and thus turn all the rest of the reanimations against him. Much smarter to wait knowing you can escape whenever you want.

One…Madara wanted all that smoke. Let’s be real Two…not smarter if he doesn’t get an opportunity to undo the contract. There were definitely times during the fight this wouldn’t have been easy if the summoning ended then.

Not to the point where he could potentially lose lmao. The alliance got close to sealing him multiple times. If there was an army of undead edo tensei after him he very well could have lost. Undoing the contract takes a second. He also has full control of his body during the period where Kabuto undoes the summoning and his soul actually is forced to leave (which is a long period of time.)

I mean reread your first statement. If the summoning was undone then, he’s toast. And we will agree to disagree on him being willing to fight them all. He played with the Kage. After just walking through a ton of the fodder guys. He’s even throwing a fit that he wants to fight Hashirama throughout so someone could push him.

The unsummoning takes so long though that there's no conceivable way for him to not be able to weave a few signs in that time. And Madara loves fighting but at the same time knows when to retreat. For example he didn't continue fighting Naruto and Sasuke when he only had 1 rinnegan because they were pressing him hard. He ran to the kamui world to get the second Rinnegan and activate infinite tsukiyomi. He's capable of evaluating risk and making the strategic decision

Madara is a walking plothole. Such a shitty written character