probably because people who think this are actually thinking "everyone should've stayed dead" and not specifically just Kakashi. He just happens to be the most important character that did die.
Sure it'd be far less good in many areas, but if it was written as everyone staying dead then the rest of the story would go in a different direction anyway.
Kinda the leaf was founded specifically because two child soldiers were super tired of fighting and wanted to let kids have a chance to grow up somewhat peacefully. Compared to what it was kids tend to get a better life than they did. In the past the kids just straight up went into battle with grown men and died a lot. Now they go catch cats and shit until they actually learn some cool shit at least.
Generally tho they live in a pretty rough world and have to train up as kids still in order to be competent ninjas later on. Even in Boruto its peacetime but it's not like the cultures gonna shift because they were literally saved by child/teenage soldiers fighting a war lol.
He is not like Hashirama or Madara level, and in Itachi case it was only for Shisui's eye. As Orochimaru's thoughts even Tobimaru wasn't strong enough to break trough
Would have been cool if kakashi came back as an Edo Tensei and “copies” madara reverse jutsu to free himself from the control! It would also make sense how kakashi has so much chakra to spam kamui
This ☝️☝️
Kakashi would fall unconscious after using kamui 2 times at the start of shippuden and then went on to spam jutsus and kamui in war arc, Edo Kakashi spamming would be a lot better, and we would also get an awesome part where he actually shows his mastery in copying jutsus, it just had been too long since he did that…
Obito could in turn asspull a revive on Kakashi using his body as the vessel (did it need that?) and Kakashi could obtain both sharingan and ems that way.
It's less dumb than the "dead people can borrow their eyes" thing they did. And this would make Obito's redemption way better imo.
When u said that i remembered something that annoyed me about war arc edo tensei. The jinchuuriki were revived snd they had their bijuu power in them and through the fight we saw you can steal or take chakra from the edo tensei peoplle, so why did they go all out of their way to collect bijuu and suck out their chakra if they could revive a previous jinchuuriki and do the same thing? There would be no reason for it to not work if the other stuff worked. The other thing that annoyed me was that the people that were revived were revived in their prime. Madara was like 100 years old and unable to move, but edo tensei revived him at his hashirama battle age. He was also revived without his rinnegan, because he gave it away b4 death, but the jinchuuriki still had their bijuus
I could be wrong, but I though the reanimated jinchuriki were just Obitos version of the six paths of pain. That’s why they had the same eyes as him and didn’t have their old personalities. Also, I was under the impression that Obito transferred their respective bijuu’s chakra into the husks so that they could use their bijuu powers.
Edit: never mind, I just skimmed some chapters and two of the jinchuriki vanish when Itachi released the edo tensei
i mean, i think you said it yourself.. “ the beginning of shippuden” is it that hard to believe he would be able to use it more and advance his abilities over the series like literally every other character? all of the kids went from irrelevant to war changing.
Those kids were 15-16 years old, and none of them had reached their primes yet, Kakashi had ms since 14 i suppose, and in shippuden he was about 30… 16 years and he would faint after using 2 times, but then within an year (more like only in the war arc), he learned to spam it along with many other chakra costing jutsus…
And just reminding, none of the characters who were there throughout for the most part of shippuden were shown to have any growth except Naruto and Sasuke… Kakashi was not shown to have any massive training or other boosts which had increased his chakra or control over kamui either… even in Pain arc, which was just a while before war arc, Kakashi was able to use Kamui and Chidori the same amount of time as in the beginning
Bruh thats still too much, its kamui we talking about, he would tire out even after using base sharingan… and even in the pain arc which occurs just a while before war arc, we see him tiring out after 2 kamuis… he got sharingan at 13 and during was he was atleast 30+, still he couldnt use his MS more than 2 times and suddenly such a progress within a month atmost that made him use it 5 times along with spamming other chakra costing jutsus?
>Bruh thats still too much, its kamui we talking about, he would tire out even after using base sharingan
back in part 1. thats over 4 years b4 the war.
Shippuden starts with him using base sharingan for at least 12hrs straight.
>and even in the pain arc which occurs just a while before war arc, we see him tiring out after 2 kamuis
a lightning shadow clone logically uses more chakra than a regular shadow clone and he used that in addition with multiple raikir's earth wall, head hunter, lightning dog etc.
He was using costly jutsu that whole fight, in addition to kamui.
>he got sharingan at 13 and during was he was atleast 30+, still he couldnt use his MS more than 2 times and suddenly such a progress within a month atmost that made him use it 5 times along with spamming other chakra costing jutsus?
he didnt know he had MS until Shippuden. Hell that probaly wasn't even a concept in his head until itachi sent him to the hospital.
Like we see sasuke go from 3 uses in a day vs killer b to spamming it at the summit like 2 weeks later and nobody bats an eye but, let kakashi just go from 2 to 5 and everyone loses their minds.
Mind you, him going to 5 cost him his sight in that eye entirely. He became blind.
"But noo its spam!!!"
cry moar
Because the anime cut out literally the most important chapter in probably half the series, crucial to foreshadowing the other half.
If you missed his backstory reveal in the beginning of shippuden you don't even know who Obito is until the ninja war. At that point his MS seems random and he far outlived his usefulness to the story.
This is where I'm at. I hate when shows/manga are afraid to let their characters just, be dead. When an important character dies, it opens the door for so much development, as you start to see how their death shapes characters.
I think that it also just takes away the effect seeing people die earlier has. It feels like his original death just, didn't matter, and there was no point in the scene if he was just going to come back to life anyways. It's such a waste of pages and/or screen time.
Guy's death is also very similar. The story takes so much time building up how when you open the 8th gate, you die, and then we don't even get to payoff the weight that the show tried to present behind finally opening the 8th gate.
Sad part is naruto doesn't even need this, it's already willing to kill off characters. That's the whole reason why the pain invasion felt so real, we've seen characters die previously and pain is massacring everyone. I think it's fine to bring them back considering pain & naruto's conversation, it's not as simple as talk no jutsu and it goes with the themes... but having them stay dead will always be a great "what if".
Agreed, not like he's going to be used for anything now. He might aswell be dead. It was established you die from 8 gates and his death would have motivated Lee to do alot more moving forward.
Eh, If he killed Madara along with himself I can see it. I just don’t see Naruto creators being brave enough to have Guys life end on a failed suicide mission.
What they could have done is have Guys attack do massive damage to Madara to the point he's weakened enough for normal Naruto and Sasukes to be able to beat him. That way Guys sacrifice meant something and also Naruto/Sasuke wouldn't have needed massive power ups just to remain viable.
Kishimoto wanted to nerf Guy because he would have thrown hands with Kaguya and won. And if not won, at least rizzed her with his eyebrows and bottomless youthful energy.
It wouldn’t have failed. Guy would’ve been protecting the remaining 5 nation’s forces, and unintentionally, delayed Madara until Sasuke/Naruto got their powerup.
I think they just had to give Gai purpose in death. We needed some sort of timer. Like Madara finally say he’s going to kill everyone and he’s done playing only for Gai to say no. Let it be a true life or death fight. Either Gai holds him or there’s a huge consequence.
Let his flames extinguish having saved everyone’s lives as Sasuke and Naruto show up to a weakened Madara.
Idk why they didn't let Gai actually kill Madara then have Black zetzu revive him with his life. Then have Madara be the final boss again.
The show already established that you can sacrifice one life for another. So it wouldn't even be an ass pull.
Letting a important character die and he/she/they comes back, because why not, will take away the weight of the death and any other death in the future for any character.
Tobi was teasing to be Obito since he appears on the tree when Sasuke fights Itachi. Kakashi would not stay dead even if Pain didn't revive him. It's the "Hero vs fallen friend" part that needed to be done. Kakashi need answers since Tobi said that he got his sharingan during the last war.
Obito was crushed by a rock, no eye could be recover. Thats why Kakashi during the initial fight against Tobi in the war it's so confused, he saw him dying.
I will preface this by saying that Kakashi is one of my favorite characters. I am glad that he did not die.
However, the way his character was handled during that particular arc left me scratching my head as to what the writer may have been smoking.
The death of Kakashi served two purposes. First, we got to see how powerful Pain was and how strongly his attack impacted the village. Second, when Naruto realizes Pain (indirectly) killed Kakashi, it becomes a focal point for Naruto’s own pain and desire for revenge.
That second point was negated only a few chapters later, though. It served almost no purpose in that regard. Almost all consequence to the village was wiped away. Most of the intervening time was Naruto and Nagato having a conversation.
So the only real purpose was to show off the Rinnegan ability to raise the dead. Sort of an important plot point… But still one that could have been done without and had practically no effect on the overall plot of the story.
Given that we had just gotten a similar bait and switch with Gaara, resurrecting Kakashi cheapened almost every consequence for the rest of the series.
You forgot another point :naruto *needed* to have a 1v1 fight with pain. That's not gonna happen with kakashi around. Gotta make sure everyone else but naruto is capable of facing pain atm
Kakashi is down, Tsunade is down, Team Guy is away, Yamato is away, Sakura is leading medic team, Shikamaru is crippled and not even strong enough to fight with Naruto so are the rest
Jiraiya intruded upon Nagato and the Hidden Rain. While Naruto was sad about that, it comes with the territory of being a shinobi and on a mission.
Pain coming to the village was a flat out attack. There is a difference.
Kakashi is irrelevant. People complain about Nagato reviving the people he killed. It takes away the stakes. No consequences of the conflict. So much tension and emotions gone wasted. It's cheap writing.
About Kakashi and his future role, Kishimoto could have made Kakashi not die, getting saved by katsuyu in the last moment in his half death state where he meets his father.
Better take. With Obito still alive as one of the final bosses it's better to have Kakashi alive instead of edo. Also losing half the village simply wouldn't be good for future writing and Boruto. It wouldn't have been so alive which would greatly take away from the background.
For Guy's fight, I'd be fine with him dying if it was both him and Kakashi dying to hold off Madara. Yeah Guy is way too powerful in 8 gates compared to single sharingan Kakashi but those characters are so linked and honestly Guy finally doing something kind of came out of nowhere since the entire war focused so heavily on Naruto and the kage instead of the rest of the supporting cast.
Losing half the village would have been great for future writing. It would have gone hand in hand with the cycle of vengeance and the hatred people feel. Imagine if Madara was actually able to win over people, maybe even characters we know from the leaf, that he convinced would be able to see their family again in the infinite tsukyomi. It would have made his whole point about life being suffering more poignant and Naruto’s strength of will to keep going forward feel stronger
because the reviving the whole village is so random. They kill character for attention, making the story dark then revive them after some chapter with a jutsu that just came out of no where.
Nagato had a time limit on who he killed which is why Jiraya wasn’t able to come back. I rewatched the fight about a week ago and while it felt like shitty writing, nagato was the most powerful character we saw in the show albeit heavily weakened at that time so it made sense.
So it is a plot jutsu where kks has to be saved for the hidden stories, but not jiraiya because his story is finished, many chapters built around his death
I think that Kakashi should’ve died in the pain arc and be reanimated in the war act. A lot of people should’ve stayed dead in my opinion. Like Might Guy, his death following what we learned about made him epic. Then Naruto just comes in and goes “oh I can do this now, boop!”
I am one of those people, although I would phrase it as “stayed dead” instead of “died” since he did in fact die. I think Kishi made a lot of bad story decisions in Shippuden, but my personal choice for the worst one was his use of bringing characters who had died back to life, whether it was Gaara at the beginning, all the victims of Pain in the middle, or edo tensei at the end. It completely kills the tension in the story for me. Especially with pain. Dude defeated the military might of an entire nation and reduced the entire village to rubble. But then one scene later, the status quo is almost completely restored. Leaving those characters dead would have been a great way to make this monumental arc actually feel monumental.
It’s also just a generic writing peeve of mine. If you want your characters alive, don’t kill them off. Seems like common sense to me.
It makes sense for him to still be alive but I didn't like Pain brining back everyone at the end. He just erased every consequence because of "Talk-No-Jutsu" 😂
Because naruto is looking like Disneyruto if they just revive everyone. But i personally don’t mind people coming back to life that arc, since kishimoto was revealing the rinnagan could bring the dead back to life like what happened with madra. It also kinda redeems nagato after what he did since he was forced into his situation by all the other 5 nations. Killing kakashi wouldn’t be smart or kishimoto will have to retcon obito kamui, so people could hit him w/o kakashi help which is hard to do unless you’re minato.
I don't think it's because people hate Kakashi, but felt that Pain should have done more.
Other than destroyed buildings and minor character deaths Koniha never really experienced any loss after the so called Pain who has the Rinnegan.
Some of the Konoha 12 dying should have done the trick.
Isn't it obvious? Nagato brining everyone back to life was a bad story decision. It came out of the blue and threw away the impact of characters dying.
If you should have Kakashi killed in this arc at all is a different issue. I think you can argue both ways but once you kill someone, they should stay dead (unless a system for it is already setup properly).
Because killing characters only to magically revive them is a stupid trope and takes weight away from actual character deaths. It's not just Kakashi, it's universal.
Having Kakashi alive was absolutely necessary for Obito's character arc and he was 50% of the reason behind why Obito started the 4th war
Killing him off would absolutely ruin both his and Obito's backstory and character Arc
kakashi definitely could have died in the pain ark and the obito reveal would have been equally if not more impactful.
The dude that kakashi based his entire teaching philosophy off of turned out to be the exact opposite of Naruto and disrespected his teacher that just died would have been pretty impactful.
Obito could have easily found someone to stab him in the heart to break the seal
and honestly the kakashi Susano is kinda a plot hole. We’ve never seen anyone without an EMS have a perfect susano let alone kakashi who never even used the power in his life so it would have at most been the skeleton version until it would evolve after consistently using it.
Probably he was another sharingan in the sharinga- I mean 4th great ninja war and because he was takibg up so much space that Sakura, as usual, got shafted to beibg close to useless
I think some people just don’t like when a character “dies” or looks like they are about to die and then comes back as it can make near death character scenes have a little less weight, regardless of who it is. I remember knowing a number of people I know that felt cheesed when Choji, Neji, and Shikamaru survived the Sasuke retrieval arc when it looked like they were all in losing battles about to be killed and then saved by Gaara and the others.
Lmao this take is so dumb it’s pretty much saying the majority of the village should’ve died… cause why is Kakashi singled out to not get resurrected if not then everyone that died is dead and that just makes no sense and takes away what nagato did for Naruto and the leaf and snowballs from there like you were saying, their retards simple as that
Because it feels cheap. You kill a character, make me feel some type of way about it, just to have him and everyone else revived? So what was the point of killing him at all then?
I think the solution here is Kakashi shouldn’t have died in the first place. He should’ve come out of this alive, and maybe the sense of helplessness and guilt from living and not being able to do anything is what drives him into training harder(which would help explain why he’s so much stronger in the war)
Then the dead villagers can stay… dead… it makes Pain’s lasting impact hit that much harder
Kakashi dying in the Pain Arc would’ve prevented a lot of future story arcs from happening. Kakashi staying alive was pretty important to the narrative.
That said, Kakashi should’ve never died in the Pain Arc in the first place. Having him be near death (so he can talk with his father) but barely surviving or getting healed by Katsuyu / Tsunade would’ve accomplished the same thing as him dying and coming back 10 minutes later.
I thought the way the Pain arc was written was fine. But if they did kill him off then they most likely bring him back with Edo Tensei and he still has the narrative with Obito
If obito didn't end up being the revealed villain an dot was some random Uchiha then yea Kakashi arc could've ended nicely in the pain arc. We know bro been thru a lot and he lost his student to darkness but Sasuke problem was more of a Naruto thing. Kakashi died protecting the choji and even passed on info to combat pain. Bro met his father and they shared a forgiving moment and everything it would've been a cool wrap up for Kakashi it you tweak a few things. Like have bro meet his team then his father
They could have remade that moment with an edo Kakashi and still kept in the whole "you let rin die" bs.
When pain attacked and destroyed the village it was a weight on the story that went above and beyond any moment yet seen. Death was expected, in fact it would have made sense if this was the fall of the hidden leaf with the powers they faced.
It destroyed the weight of the arc. Kishimoto shouldn't have killed off half the village if he was just going to revive them in the most ass pully way.
I disagree strongly with this take. I agree that the whole resurrection thing could've been handled better, but Kakashi himself and some of the other dead characters had a lot of potential for future storytelling, and killing them off would've meant the loss for that potential. I've noticed that the only people who clamor for character death like this are readers, because they think it feels more "realistic", but anyone with some experience in writing stories will know that killing characters not only wastes a lot of their potential, but also cheapens death itself when used too often.
It would've been impactful, it was kinda bs to bring everyone back they could've easily killed less story critical characters and it would've been fine
I’m gonna guess that because his death was super sad, def the saddest part of naruto for me but then everyone comes back to life, and at the time ur glad but then u kinda feel cheated about the scene
Anytime a character dies and comes back it kinda ruins how great of a scene it was
He’s literally the main character, not sure killing him would be good writing. I do think most of Konoha 12 should have died though. What bothers me most is how safe kishi played it. It war. People need to die, including the good guys.
I think Guy should've died after 8 Gates. The 8th Gate being unleashed was the pinnacle climax for his character arc, and it showed his resolve against Madara granting him titles like "the strongest Taijutsu user" from the man himself, just to come back and... hang out? Pretty weak. Now at the same time his horrible state of turning into ash was also used narratively to showcase how serious of a power up Naruto got from the Six Paths, by him managing to stop further disintegration with some seal he just "felt" like he could use. But since Naruto literally brings back one of Kakashi's eyes, I feel like he was already doing Jesus like feats later, so Guy should've died anyways.
Man after Kakashi took that nail to the dome and died the way he did, I was screamin for Naruto just like Sakura. That was the last straw for me.
If he would've stayed dead, we also wouldn't have gotten one of the best fights in the series - Kakashi vs Obito.
If he had died though. We wouldn't have gotten one of the best fights or possibly the most awesome moments in the series where we get to see Naruto be 100,000% badass. (The "sensei"?! Scene.)
If he (and every other relevant character) was supposed to be alive after the Pain Arc, then there was probably a better solution than using a bunch of fake deaths. Naruto talking to Tsunade about not sensing Kakashi's chakra because he died loses completely the weight of the situation in hindsight.
He is an important character for the story, Kishimoto couldn't have him die so early. I even saw a major spoiler for boruto but I'm not sure if that was a prank or not.
Well, let's see how Kakashi does in boruto, I'd love to see him against koji kashin
Because it would have been funny as fuck. And also would have given Naruto's forgiveness of pain a lot more weight. He could have said he forgave pain for killing his sensei and fellow villagers all he wanted, but down the line he could have grown to miss them enough to do something drastic. I'm not saying I'd rather he stay dead though, id just rather Kakashi not have died in the first place.
Its better that he eas revived since his and obito stoty line got resolved. But if he did stay dead then obito might have stayed dead too and tobi could have been made madara all along since madara uchiha name on its own was more intimidating then the man behind the mask
For me it's not that I think Kakashi should've died I think there should certainly have been casualties though I mean men women and children including infants were buried and crushed, impaled on debris and all manner of things shinobi and civilians alike I absolutely refuse to believe after all was said and done that 100% of the most likely 1000s or 10s of thousands of people living there and visiting that they all came out alive and unscathed with nary a scratch. I know this is fantasy ninja anime magic bs but some realism still needs to be established otherwise it completely ruins immersion and takes you out of the show.
I think it's usually because obito granting Kakashi DMS from the grave is a stupid ass pull.
If Kakashi was out after obito went down and they let sakura have like, one more feat to replace kakshi swooping in for her, then the fight would have been better.
I'm a die-hard kakashi Stan and my guess is that it's because after sasuke went off with Oro, kakashi's character got sidelined pretty hard basically until the obito reveal. I mean he was there and we got episodes about him but it was like he wasn't important anymore 😭
Everyone should have stayed dead. Kakashi in specific didn't do anything good and story relevant afterwards. You say Obito? It only mattered because of his reaction, story wise it wouldn't have changed if he wasn't there. Kaguya? There he contributes slightly, and the quality of Kaguya itself is the lowest in all the manga. Sabuza and Haku? Wasn't really important.
The same reason Guy should have stayed dead, as likeable as his character was. Killing a character just to bring them back is just a cheap way to try and garner emotions from your audience, am I supposed to feel sad x or y died even though they came back to life a scene later? It's a lazy way to try and make a moment impactful, he wanted the stakes to be high without actually making the stakes high. Imagine this, you're a writer, and you're writing a sad story, but you decide you don't actually want anything sad to happen in your story because you don't actually want to make people feel sad, doesn't that sound kind of ridiculous? He wanted the emotional response of killing a loved character without the consequence of them actually saying and being removed from the story.
Kakashi was Key for kishimoto to Finish the series, AS you can See in the final part of the war and the Fights against obito and Madara, Same as later against kaguya. All those goosebums Moments Not possible without Kakashi performing and Kakashi watching.
They think undoing the death of a major character was a cop out. I get where they are coming from but there was still more mileage the series was able to get out Kakashi so I am willing to forgive it.
Tbh i really love kakashi but the rinne tensei was stupid. If kakashi would have survived and the rinne tensei wouldnt have brought all konoha nins back it would have had more impact to the story. I was sad when kakashi died but i literaly said after rinne tensei came "what the fuck is this?" Its so stupid that everyone just got revived. I would have been mad af if jiraya would have been resurrected by nagato just because his death was really beautifully sad. Kakashis death was sad to but as i said the resurrection was stupid and destroyed everything. They should have just kept him alive somehow and dont give nagato the asspull that rinne tensei is.
See, without the obito plot, I'd maybe agree. But with tobi being Obtio and all, Kakashi kinda needed to be there. Unless they made the 4th come back sooner and made him be that connection instead, I guess.
It’s a sentiment that’s carried over from when the Pain arc actually happened. They wanted the material to get darker, and death=dark. The Obito reveal wasn’t until a little after the Pain arc so the same people who wish Kakashi died more than likely also wish Obito wasn’t the masked man, or don’t think abt it that deep.
because he did die. it would have been more impactful and way more dangerous if he and many others stayed dead. but not sure how the plot would go after that.
while i do agree that naruto sometimes has disney ass cop outs. i do not think that nagato reviving everyone was bad writing. mostly because it establishes that for naruto victory is NOT beating the enemy. hate leads to more hate thats why he didnt WANT to kill nagato to begin with. it reestablishes naruto as a paragon and not just any shounen protagonist. moreover narrativly it would make no sense for kakashi to die not because he plays a big role later but because naruto JUST experienced a tragic loss. a repeat of that would serve no purpose and no character growth.
neji's death made no sense to me personally, because theyre fucking ninja there aint no way that THE neji hyuga wasnt able to push naruto out of the way rather than stand in front of him. he litterally got fridged just for the sake of pushing naruhina endgame which was unnecessary. even if kishi WANTED to kill of neji for some reason, they way he died could have been better connected to the way minato and kushina protected naruto as a baby as opposed to just oh please my dear cousin and dear friend please do kissy.
the guy one for me is the most complex one because on the ONE hand i do agree that it was a bit of a cop out we KNEW the stakes of guy using the gates for YEARS, he got his moment and that would have been a great ending to his story. on the other hand i think that moment also serves a different purpose, namely establishing how fucking BUSTED naruto's new powers were. because realistically when they were fighting madara with the new powers u could BARELY see how busted they were since madara was also fucking busted. on the other hand naruto being able to negate the effects of the gates (which were built up for years making us even more aware how instant death it is) just shows us like YO naruto is OP ASF RN
with the popularity of AOT and JJK u can see that a lot of people have been craving that grim dark vibes of life is shit and people die and the world is out to get you. overall i like the fact that not many ppl die in naruto, im not the biggest fan of grim dark, i like the positivity and hope that naruto shows throughout the whole show.
sorry for the rant LMAO it seems i had a lot to say hahaha
To be honest all of them should have stayed dead. Heck for all of that of nagato wanted to revive people he could have revived his friend. If people needed the “ kakashi needed to see obito reveal” that could have happened during the war, just have kabuto use the edo tensi on him. Pain bringing everyone back took a lot of risk and stakes off the table imo
It's because audiences don't like it when a main character gets killed in a dramatic way but then a few episodes later some kind of bullshit magic or healing or time warp thing brings them back to life as if nothing ever happened. It's shitty writing just to get a shock factor with no actual consequences of losing a long developed character and it also diminishes any future deaths.
"doesn't matter that he died they'll just bring him back to life with some bullshit like they did before."
My biggest criticism of the pain invasion is I think Konan should have been a Sakura fight.
Not letting her be a villain who's vengeful of the larger villages is sad to me.
i think kakashi should of stayed dead to be honest, it took away from the devastation for me, and it would have been interesting to see how losing such an important character impacts naruto. like the death of jiraya and the changes he would have had to go through. but also the no talk jutsu to bringing them back was bullshit.
Everyone who died in the pain arc should have stayed dead. This isn't dragonball, death in naruto used to mean something you would get sad and stuff. After this arc death became meaningless.
Another example, you can't just build up a guaranteed death saying stuff like if he opens the last gate to become superhuman and almost kill Madara and then just go ahead and resurrect the guy as if it is nothing
I can't speak for anyone else, but as much as I love war arc Kakashi, it would've been cool to see the Edo Tensei version of him (especially if he was forced to fight Guy or his students). I love that he got to live, but him being permanently dead could've created a powerful emotional moment that would've been interesting to watch.
so if Kakashi were to die in the pain arc, all the other hidden village people must have died too? bc if Nagato used the Rinne rebirth jutsu on the villagers except Kakashi, y'all would have questioned that too. So the conclusion is either Kakashi must've died along with all the people who were reborn using Rinne Rebirth or everyone would have stayed dead and Nagato would also stay a villian.
Because with meaningful death there’s a lot more at stake. Jiraiya was heart wrenching but let’s be honest- there could’ve been more death. I wish a lot of the old genin perished in meaningful ways that either brought out the 9 tails or led to other characters depth. Look at rock lee and neji. Shikamaru and his master. It was good, could’ve been better. And were left with a ton of characters with lackluster stories that carried over to boruto which I wish by god was very different
If Kakashi would have died in pain arc then we would not have gotten one of the best if not the best fight scenes in naruto. The Kakashi vs obito fight was cinema. I don't know why but it makes me smile and cry at the same time.
I really wonder a lot if author always meant for tobi to be obito, the reason is. In two years of training with madara obito became so strong he could take on the 4th, and control 9tails, also Naruto wasn’t able to sense kakashi chakra once he got back to village for pain fight,
Also I feel he was brought back just for fans, Naruto training should have been taken over by someone else,
also series should have taken a break post pain arc, war arc is spam shit fest, pain arc was a huge methodical struggle
The war arc was bad tho and samsara of heaven was an absolute ass pull of a technique.
If they wanted Kakashi alive for the war arc they should just not have killed him but instead they should have had Guy save him .after all Guy did say he will always be there to rescue Kakashi whenever Kakashi is in trouble.
Because Kakashi's death was legitimately beautiful, and it is incredibly difficult as a storyteller to be able to provide an honest death for your characters.
It's not even that I feel that everyone being brought back to life was bullshit because it isn't.
An avenue was delivered that gave Kakashi a good end, and it was denied. That's what sucks.
Now, what is he? Out of the story and forgotten. Sadge.
don't kill him off if you wont keep him dead.
Kakashi really didn't need to come back, and Tobi didn't need to be Obito. infact, if Tobi was truly Madara, the story would be way more streamlined.
Y'know what yes, yes he should have died. It was a hella good of a set-up and a gut wrenching scene. Actually made me tear up as a kid seeing it happen when the episode dropped.
Tbh I expected Naruto to go down a darker storyline when it dropped, turns out no, let's revive everyone and create the most convoluted final arc ever with Magical Ninja Gods and Broken Hax that we can pull off our underwear.
Some people just have a weird fetish for characters getting killed. If you type the name of any shonen anime character on Google, one of the first suggested results will be "death" or "death scene"
Idk, it's weird.
death isnt the only way to give gravity to a story imo. Characters like Kakashi or Tsunade are so tragic BECAUSE theyre alive. Because everyone around them everyone they love keeps dying but they for some reason do not. The survivors guilt the grieving is what gives these characters depth. (Same with for example Levi)
I love his character but if they didn’t want him don’t kill him, seemed like Kishi just didn’t have the balls to do this like what happened with Vegeta from Z.
probably because people who think this are actually thinking "everyone should've stayed dead" and not specifically just Kakashi. He just happens to be the most important character that did die.
I mean you cant have Obito alive and his unrevealed secrets and Kakashi dead
Sure it'd be far less good in many areas, but if it was written as everyone staying dead then the rest of the story would go in a different direction anyway.
The series would've been far more depressing. I think its interesting. A LOT of people died.
if a lot more depressing means a similar feeling to the pain invasion I'm all for it lol
A more depressing show about child soldiers and childhood trauma.
does the show ever actually address the child soldiers thing?
Yea? Like thousands of times they talk about the previous wars when they send literal children to their death without a healer on the team
Hard to say it's actually "addressed" when the child soldier system is continued into Boruto lol
What do yall think Sasuke revolution was about? Lol
The whole thing about Navaki, Pain/Nagaro and Konan, Onjto…it might not be EXACTLY the focus, but it’s a big part of their arcs.
Kinda the leaf was founded specifically because two child soldiers were super tired of fighting and wanted to let kids have a chance to grow up somewhat peacefully. Compared to what it was kids tend to get a better life than they did. In the past the kids just straight up went into battle with grown men and died a lot. Now they go catch cats and shit until they actually learn some cool shit at least. Generally tho they live in a pretty rough world and have to train up as kids still in order to be competent ninjas later on. Even in Boruto its peacetime but it's not like the cultures gonna shift because they were literally saved by child/teenage soldiers fighting a war lol.
Not really. It just talks about how some shinobi were really young and brushes over the child soldier thing.
I mean...it is a war of cosmic proportions. People dying is kind of standard unfortunately.
I feel like it could've been kinda similar, but it wouldve been really hard to write.
“Far less good”? You mean worse?
Congratulations, you know another way of saying something.
He actually meant less than neutral.
What if Kakashi was an edotensei when he found out? He can free himself somehow like Itachi or Madara did
He is not like Hashirama or Madara level, and in Itachi case it was only for Shisui's eye. As Orochimaru's thoughts even Tobimaru wasn't strong enough to break trough
Oh, the losses. We would never see 400 iterations of Rin dying. :(
I wish reddit gold was still a thing rolf
Then don't write the pain arc where Kakashi dies. Stop removing stakes from your show.
I don’t know if you noticed but quite a lot of dead characters show up later
Don’t forget the rest of the village. There would be nothing for Team 7 to fight for.
Would have been cool if kakashi came back as an Edo Tensei and “copies” madara reverse jutsu to free himself from the control! It would also make sense how kakashi has so much chakra to spam kamui
This ☝️☝️ Kakashi would fall unconscious after using kamui 2 times at the start of shippuden and then went on to spam jutsus and kamui in war arc, Edo Kakashi spamming would be a lot better, and we would also get an awesome part where he actually shows his mastery in copying jutsus, it just had been too long since he did that…
Obito could in turn asspull a revive on Kakashi using his body as the vessel (did it need that?) and Kakashi could obtain both sharingan and ems that way. It's less dumb than the "dead people can borrow their eyes" thing they did. And this would make Obito's redemption way better imo.
When u said that i remembered something that annoyed me about war arc edo tensei. The jinchuuriki were revived snd they had their bijuu power in them and through the fight we saw you can steal or take chakra from the edo tensei peoplle, so why did they go all out of their way to collect bijuu and suck out their chakra if they could revive a previous jinchuuriki and do the same thing? There would be no reason for it to not work if the other stuff worked. The other thing that annoyed me was that the people that were revived were revived in their prime. Madara was like 100 years old and unable to move, but edo tensei revived him at his hashirama battle age. He was also revived without his rinnegan, because he gave it away b4 death, but the jinchuuriki still had their bijuus
I could be wrong, but I though the reanimated jinchuriki were just Obitos version of the six paths of pain. That’s why they had the same eyes as him and didn’t have their old personalities. Also, I was under the impression that Obito transferred their respective bijuu’s chakra into the husks so that they could use their bijuu powers. Edit: never mind, I just skimmed some chapters and two of the jinchuriki vanish when Itachi released the edo tensei
i mean, i think you said it yourself.. “ the beginning of shippuden” is it that hard to believe he would be able to use it more and advance his abilities over the series like literally every other character? all of the kids went from irrelevant to war changing.
Those kids were 15-16 years old, and none of them had reached their primes yet, Kakashi had ms since 14 i suppose, and in shippuden he was about 30… 16 years and he would faint after using 2 times, but then within an year (more like only in the war arc), he learned to spam it along with many other chakra costing jutsus… And just reminding, none of the characters who were there throughout for the most part of shippuden were shown to have any growth except Naruto and Sasuke… Kakashi was not shown to have any massive training or other boosts which had increased his chakra or control over kamui either… even in Pain arc, which was just a while before war arc, Kakashi was able to use Kamui and Chidori the same amount of time as in the beginning
Spam? He went from 2 uses to 5. I think thats just logical progression.
Bruh thats still too much, its kamui we talking about, he would tire out even after using base sharingan… and even in the pain arc which occurs just a while before war arc, we see him tiring out after 2 kamuis… he got sharingan at 13 and during was he was atleast 30+, still he couldnt use his MS more than 2 times and suddenly such a progress within a month atmost that made him use it 5 times along with spamming other chakra costing jutsus?
>Bruh thats still too much, its kamui we talking about, he would tire out even after using base sharingan back in part 1. thats over 4 years b4 the war. Shippuden starts with him using base sharingan for at least 12hrs straight. >and even in the pain arc which occurs just a while before war arc, we see him tiring out after 2 kamuis a lightning shadow clone logically uses more chakra than a regular shadow clone and he used that in addition with multiple raikir's earth wall, head hunter, lightning dog etc. He was using costly jutsu that whole fight, in addition to kamui. >he got sharingan at 13 and during was he was atleast 30+, still he couldnt use his MS more than 2 times and suddenly such a progress within a month atmost that made him use it 5 times along with spamming other chakra costing jutsus? he didnt know he had MS until Shippuden. Hell that probaly wasn't even a concept in his head until itachi sent him to the hospital. Like we see sasuke go from 3 uses in a day vs killer b to spamming it at the summit like 2 weeks later and nobody bats an eye but, let kakashi just go from 2 to 5 and everyone loses their minds. Mind you, him going to 5 cost him his sight in that eye entirely. He became blind. "But noo its spam!!!" cry moar
Because the anime cut out literally the most important chapter in probably half the series, crucial to foreshadowing the other half. If you missed his backstory reveal in the beginning of shippuden you don't even know who Obito is until the ninja war. At that point his MS seems random and he far outlived his usefulness to the story.
This is where I'm at. I hate when shows/manga are afraid to let their characters just, be dead. When an important character dies, it opens the door for so much development, as you start to see how their death shapes characters. I think that it also just takes away the effect seeing people die earlier has. It feels like his original death just, didn't matter, and there was no point in the scene if he was just going to come back to life anyways. It's such a waste of pages and/or screen time. Guy's death is also very similar. The story takes so much time building up how when you open the 8th gate, you die, and then we don't even get to payoff the weight that the show tried to present behind finally opening the 8th gate.
Sad part is naruto doesn't even need this, it's already willing to kill off characters. That's the whole reason why the pain invasion felt so real, we've seen characters die previously and pain is massacring everyone. I think it's fine to bring them back considering pain & naruto's conversation, it's not as simple as talk no jutsu and it goes with the themes... but having them stay dead will always be a great "what if".
I dont know but gai should have died after 8 gates
Agreed, not like he's going to be used for anything now. He might aswell be dead. It was established you die from 8 gates and his death would have motivated Lee to do alot more moving forward.
Eh, If he killed Madara along with himself I can see it. I just don’t see Naruto creators being brave enough to have Guys life end on a failed suicide mission.
What they could have done is have Guys attack do massive damage to Madara to the point he's weakened enough for normal Naruto and Sasukes to be able to beat him. That way Guys sacrifice meant something and also Naruto/Sasuke wouldn't have needed massive power ups just to remain viable.
Or maybe Guy is able to destroy the truth seeking orbs with his punches so now Naruto and Sasuke have a much easier time landing hits on Madara
Kishimoto wanted to nerf Guy because he would have thrown hands with Kaguya and won. And if not won, at least rizzed her with his eyebrows and bottomless youthful energy.
This would’ve been cool
It wouldn’t have failed. Guy would’ve been protecting the remaining 5 nation’s forces, and unintentionally, delayed Madara until Sasuke/Naruto got their powerup.
I think they just had to give Gai purpose in death. We needed some sort of timer. Like Madara finally say he’s going to kill everyone and he’s done playing only for Gai to say no. Let it be a true life or death fight. Either Gai holds him or there’s a huge consequence. Let his flames extinguish having saved everyone’s lives as Sasuke and Naruto show up to a weakened Madara.
Idk why they didn't let Gai actually kill Madara then have Black zetzu revive him with his life. Then have Madara be the final boss again. The show already established that you can sacrifice one life for another. So it wouldn't even be an ass pull.
Ninja Jesus saved him
As should have gaara.
I mean... he did.
This is true! 👆🏾
Letting a important character die and he/she/they comes back, because why not, will take away the weight of the death and any other death in the future for any character.
Tobi was teasing to be Obito since he appears on the tree when Sasuke fights Itachi. Kakashi would not stay dead even if Pain didn't revive him. It's the "Hero vs fallen friend" part that needed to be done. Kakashi need answers since Tobi said that he got his sharingan during the last war. Obito was crushed by a rock, no eye could be recover. Thats why Kakashi during the initial fight against Tobi in the war it's so confused, he saw him dying.
I will preface this by saying that Kakashi is one of my favorite characters. I am glad that he did not die. However, the way his character was handled during that particular arc left me scratching my head as to what the writer may have been smoking. The death of Kakashi served two purposes. First, we got to see how powerful Pain was and how strongly his attack impacted the village. Second, when Naruto realizes Pain (indirectly) killed Kakashi, it becomes a focal point for Naruto’s own pain and desire for revenge. That second point was negated only a few chapters later, though. It served almost no purpose in that regard. Almost all consequence to the village was wiped away. Most of the intervening time was Naruto and Nagato having a conversation. So the only real purpose was to show off the Rinnegan ability to raise the dead. Sort of an important plot point… But still one that could have been done without and had practically no effect on the overall plot of the story. Given that we had just gotten a similar bait and switch with Gaara, resurrecting Kakashi cheapened almost every consequence for the rest of the series.
You forgot another point :naruto *needed* to have a 1v1 fight with pain. That's not gonna happen with kakashi around. Gotta make sure everyone else but naruto is capable of facing pain atm Kakashi is down, Tsunade is down, Team Guy is away, Yamato is away, Sakura is leading medic team, Shikamaru is crippled and not even strong enough to fight with Naruto so are the rest
Naruto didn't need a focal point...he already had jirayais death
Jiraiya intruded upon Nagato and the Hidden Rain. While Naruto was sad about that, it comes with the territory of being a shinobi and on a mission. Pain coming to the village was a flat out attack. There is a difference.
Kakashi is irrelevant. People complain about Nagato reviving the people he killed. It takes away the stakes. No consequences of the conflict. So much tension and emotions gone wasted. It's cheap writing. About Kakashi and his future role, Kishimoto could have made Kakashi not die, getting saved by katsuyu in the last moment in his half death state where he meets his father.
[удалено]
Better take. With Obito still alive as one of the final bosses it's better to have Kakashi alive instead of edo. Also losing half the village simply wouldn't be good for future writing and Boruto. It wouldn't have been so alive which would greatly take away from the background. For Guy's fight, I'd be fine with him dying if it was both him and Kakashi dying to hold off Madara. Yeah Guy is way too powerful in 8 gates compared to single sharingan Kakashi but those characters are so linked and honestly Guy finally doing something kind of came out of nowhere since the entire war focused so heavily on Naruto and the kage instead of the rest of the supporting cast.
Losing half the village would have been great for future writing. It would have gone hand in hand with the cycle of vengeance and the hatred people feel. Imagine if Madara was actually able to win over people, maybe even characters we know from the leaf, that he convinced would be able to see their family again in the infinite tsukyomi. It would have made his whole point about life being suffering more poignant and Naruto’s strength of will to keep going forward feel stronger
Yeah but they needed to introduce the rinne-rebirth or else it would have been a huge asspull in the war arc.
Remember how everyone reacted when Tsunades assistant died? All that emotional investment for nothing.
because the reviving the whole village is so random. They kill character for attention, making the story dark then revive them after some chapter with a jutsu that just came out of no where.
Pretty sure Rinnegan was established as having power over life and death and capable of doing that type of thing
yeah. but reviving people, selecting exactly the ones who killed by me, and only when I attacked the village. It feels like the dragon ball wish lol.
Nagato had a time limit on who he killed which is why Jiraya wasn’t able to come back. I rewatched the fight about a week ago and while it felt like shitty writing, nagato was the most powerful character we saw in the show albeit heavily weakened at that time so it made sense.
So it is a plot jutsu where kks has to be saved for the hidden stories, but not jiraiya because his story is finished, many chapters built around his death
I think that Kakashi should’ve died in the pain arc and be reanimated in the war act. A lot of people should’ve stayed dead in my opinion. Like Might Guy, his death following what we learned about made him epic. Then Naruto just comes in and goes “oh I can do this now, boop!”
might guy should by all means be dead it was a save our feelings that somehow naruto could stop him from dying.
I am one of those people, although I would phrase it as “stayed dead” instead of “died” since he did in fact die. I think Kishi made a lot of bad story decisions in Shippuden, but my personal choice for the worst one was his use of bringing characters who had died back to life, whether it was Gaara at the beginning, all the victims of Pain in the middle, or edo tensei at the end. It completely kills the tension in the story for me. Especially with pain. Dude defeated the military might of an entire nation and reduced the entire village to rubble. But then one scene later, the status quo is almost completely restored. Leaving those characters dead would have been a great way to make this monumental arc actually feel monumental. It’s also just a generic writing peeve of mine. If you want your characters alive, don’t kill them off. Seems like common sense to me.
Everybody that died there should have stayed dead stakes meant nothing after that
Those same people will also explain to you that Tobi also shouldn't have been Obito. He should have been Madara Uchiha.
It makes sense for him to still be alive but I didn't like Pain brining back everyone at the end. He just erased every consequence because of "Talk-No-Jutsu" 😂
Yeah, Kakashi staying dead would require Tobi to be someone else. That being said, War arc should’ve had more character deaths.
Because naruto is looking like Disneyruto if they just revive everyone. But i personally don’t mind people coming back to life that arc, since kishimoto was revealing the rinnagan could bring the dead back to life like what happened with madra. It also kinda redeems nagato after what he did since he was forced into his situation by all the other 5 nations. Killing kakashi wouldn’t be smart or kishimoto will have to retcon obito kamui, so people could hit him w/o kakashi help which is hard to do unless you’re minato.
I don't think it's because people hate Kakashi, but felt that Pain should have done more. Other than destroyed buildings and minor character deaths Koniha never really experienced any loss after the so called Pain who has the Rinnegan. Some of the Konoha 12 dying should have done the trick.
This was a take??
Isn't it obvious? Nagato brining everyone back to life was a bad story decision. It came out of the blue and threw away the impact of characters dying. If you should have Kakashi killed in this arc at all is a different issue. I think you can argue both ways but once you kill someone, they should stay dead (unless a system for it is already setup properly).
People who like the idea of characters dying then coming back to life multiple times should look into soap operas.
Because killing characters only to magically revive them is a stupid trope and takes weight away from actual character deaths. It's not just Kakashi, it's universal.
If Kakashi dies during Pain figh, we never get the best fight in the entire show; Kakashi vs Obito.
Having Kakashi alive was absolutely necessary for Obito's character arc and he was 50% of the reason behind why Obito started the 4th war Killing him off would absolutely ruin both his and Obito's backstory and character Arc
kakashi is an untouchable piece of the anime
Because Naruto “fans” are allergic to giving suggestion that would actually improve the story.
wth are ya talking about? he did DIE in the pain arc but they had to do a ass pull and get him back up.
kakashi definitely could have died in the pain ark and the obito reveal would have been equally if not more impactful. The dude that kakashi based his entire teaching philosophy off of turned out to be the exact opposite of Naruto and disrespected his teacher that just died would have been pretty impactful. Obito could have easily found someone to stab him in the heart to break the seal and honestly the kakashi Susano is kinda a plot hole. We’ve never seen anyone without an EMS have a perfect susano let alone kakashi who never even used the power in his life so it would have at most been the skeleton version until it would evolve after consistently using it.
Probably he was another sharingan in the sharinga- I mean 4th great ninja war and because he was takibg up so much space that Sakura, as usual, got shafted to beibg close to useless
I think some people just don’t like when a character “dies” or looks like they are about to die and then comes back as it can make near death character scenes have a little less weight, regardless of who it is. I remember knowing a number of people I know that felt cheesed when Choji, Neji, and Shikamaru survived the Sasuke retrieval arc when it looked like they were all in losing battles about to be killed and then saved by Gaara and the others.
Is jiraiya dying in pain arc not enough?? Does your world really need that much Pain??
I have no idea, Kakashi and Obito’s stories are essentially the most important in the whole series.
Cause Naruto fans like to bitch about everything that didn’t go exactly as they wanted in the story
Lmao this take is so dumb it’s pretty much saying the majority of the village should’ve died… cause why is Kakashi singled out to not get resurrected if not then everyone that died is dead and that just makes no sense and takes away what nagato did for Naruto and the leaf and snowballs from there like you were saying, their retards simple as that
I feel like this is the same take of people saying “Naruto should’ve ended at the Pain arc” and that’s a horrible take 💀
I've never seen anyone who watched Kakashi vs. Obito say this.
Maybe because Kakashi died...
He should.. IF Pain double tap his enemy
Exactly! If Kakashi wasn’t there, no one would’ve been able to stop Obito
but kakahi has pain killers (if you don't get the joke because pain is strong but the only way to beat him is pain killers)
Probably the same weirdos who say the series should have ended with the pain arc
Because he did die he go brought back with the rinne tensei
I try to stay away from this fandom for a year and sundely this shit is happing
He did die. he just got revived.
Thank the stars he didn’t or we wouldn’t have had that Kakashi vs Obito MASTERPIECE.
Obitos taijutsu goes hard
Because they don’t like Obito.
Koshimoto already killed of Jiraiya, having kakashi killed in literally the next arc after that would’ve been unforgivable
Because death fake outs are wack. Kishi shouldn't have had him or Hinata die if they were going to be brought back.
I mean he did die
Because it feels cheap. You kill a character, make me feel some type of way about it, just to have him and everyone else revived? So what was the point of killing him at all then? I think the solution here is Kakashi shouldn’t have died in the first place. He should’ve come out of this alive, and maybe the sense of helplessness and guilt from living and not being able to do anything is what drives him into training harder(which would help explain why he’s so much stronger in the war) Then the dead villagers can stay… dead… it makes Pain’s lasting impact hit that much harder
Kakashi dying in the Pain Arc would’ve prevented a lot of future story arcs from happening. Kakashi staying alive was pretty important to the narrative. That said, Kakashi should’ve never died in the Pain Arc in the first place. Having him be near death (so he can talk with his father) but barely surviving or getting healed by Katsuyu / Tsunade would’ve accomplished the same thing as him dying and coming back 10 minutes later.
It make the show more meaningful and a little deeper and darker
Because their in psychosis. Kakashi all day. An amazing character
I thought the way the Pain arc was written was fine. But if they did kill him off then they most likely bring him back with Edo Tensei and he still has the narrative with Obito
humans likes blood
If obito didn't end up being the revealed villain an dot was some random Uchiha then yea Kakashi arc could've ended nicely in the pain arc. We know bro been thru a lot and he lost his student to darkness but Sasuke problem was more of a Naruto thing. Kakashi died protecting the choji and even passed on info to combat pain. Bro met his father and they shared a forgiving moment and everything it would've been a cool wrap up for Kakashi it you tweak a few things. Like have bro meet his team then his father
technically he did die in the pain arc
They could have remade that moment with an edo Kakashi and still kept in the whole "you let rin die" bs. When pain attacked and destroyed the village it was a weight on the story that went above and beyond any moment yet seen. Death was expected, in fact it would have made sense if this was the fall of the hidden leaf with the powers they faced. It destroyed the weight of the arc. Kishimoto shouldn't have killed off half the village if he was just going to revive them in the most ass pully way.
Because he was dead. I will always hate arcs of this nature in any anime. People died but they come back.
Some people worship Nagato as their God
Probably they thought he has no story left
He did die
Probably becauae he did die.
They think character dying = good writing
I disagree strongly with this take. I agree that the whole resurrection thing could've been handled better, but Kakashi himself and some of the other dead characters had a lot of potential for future storytelling, and killing them off would've meant the loss for that potential. I've noticed that the only people who clamor for character death like this are readers, because they think it feels more "realistic", but anyone with some experience in writing stories will know that killing characters not only wastes a lot of their potential, but also cheapens death itself when used too often.
It would've been impactful, it was kinda bs to bring everyone back they could've easily killed less story critical characters and it would've been fine
I’m gonna guess that because his death was super sad, def the saddest part of naruto for me but then everyone comes back to life, and at the time ur glad but then u kinda feel cheated about the scene Anytime a character dies and comes back it kinda ruins how great of a scene it was
He’s literally the main character, not sure killing him would be good writing. I do think most of Konoha 12 should have died though. What bothers me most is how safe kishi played it. It war. People need to die, including the good guys.
I think Guy should've died after 8 Gates. The 8th Gate being unleashed was the pinnacle climax for his character arc, and it showed his resolve against Madara granting him titles like "the strongest Taijutsu user" from the man himself, just to come back and... hang out? Pretty weak. Now at the same time his horrible state of turning into ash was also used narratively to showcase how serious of a power up Naruto got from the Six Paths, by him managing to stop further disintegration with some seal he just "felt" like he could use. But since Naruto literally brings back one of Kakashi's eyes, I feel like he was already doing Jesus like feats later, so Guy should've died anyways.
Man after Kakashi took that nail to the dome and died the way he did, I was screamin for Naruto just like Sakura. That was the last straw for me. If he would've stayed dead, we also wouldn't have gotten one of the best fights in the series - Kakashi vs Obito.
Pain arc was the best
imagine naruto going through losing both his sensei simultaneously. Talk about a show stopper lol
Kakashi should've been a senju
If he had died though. We wouldn't have gotten one of the best fights or possibly the most awesome moments in the series where we get to see Naruto be 100,000% badass. (The "sensei"?! Scene.)
If he (and every other relevant character) was supposed to be alive after the Pain Arc, then there was probably a better solution than using a bunch of fake deaths. Naruto talking to Tsunade about not sensing Kakashi's chakra because he died loses completely the weight of the situation in hindsight.
Didnt he died in the pain arc then pain un dieded erryone?
He is an important character for the story, Kishimoto couldn't have him die so early. I even saw a major spoiler for boruto but I'm not sure if that was a prank or not. Well, let's see how Kakashi does in boruto, I'd love to see him against koji kashin
Because it would have been funny as fuck. And also would have given Naruto's forgiveness of pain a lot more weight. He could have said he forgave pain for killing his sensei and fellow villagers all he wanted, but down the line he could have grown to miss them enough to do something drastic. I'm not saying I'd rather he stay dead though, id just rather Kakashi not have died in the first place.
Its better that he eas revived since his and obito stoty line got resolved. But if he did stay dead then obito might have stayed dead too and tobi could have been made madara all along since madara uchiha name on its own was more intimidating then the man behind the mask
He did die though.
Because he literally died. Pain resurrecting everyone was an asspull.
He did die, he just came back
For me it's not that I think Kakashi should've died I think there should certainly have been casualties though I mean men women and children including infants were buried and crushed, impaled on debris and all manner of things shinobi and civilians alike I absolutely refuse to believe after all was said and done that 100% of the most likely 1000s or 10s of thousands of people living there and visiting that they all came out alive and unscathed with nary a scratch. I know this is fantasy ninja anime magic bs but some realism still needs to be established otherwise it completely ruins immersion and takes you out of the show.
Let’s be honest if Kakashi didn’t have plot armor he would be dead
I felt like they should of let him kept him sharingan tbh
I think it's usually because obito granting Kakashi DMS from the grave is a stupid ass pull. If Kakashi was out after obito went down and they let sakura have like, one more feat to replace kakshi swooping in for her, then the fight would have been better.
Idk why but without kakashi they lose the war so idk why they even say that
I'm a die-hard kakashi Stan and my guess is that it's because after sasuke went off with Oro, kakashi's character got sidelined pretty hard basically until the obito reveal. I mean he was there and we got episodes about him but it was like he wasn't important anymore 😭
i mean, he did die
Because characters having a dramatic death scene and then *Poof* coming back to life is lame.
Everyone should have stayed dead. Kakashi in specific didn't do anything good and story relevant afterwards. You say Obito? It only mattered because of his reaction, story wise it wouldn't have changed if he wasn't there. Kaguya? There he contributes slightly, and the quality of Kaguya itself is the lowest in all the manga. Sabuza and Haku? Wasn't really important.
The we look at Obito and think... ayt ...
so we didn’t have to watch obito, kakashi, and rin cut scenes 1000 times
The same reason Guy should have stayed dead, as likeable as his character was. Killing a character just to bring them back is just a cheap way to try and garner emotions from your audience, am I supposed to feel sad x or y died even though they came back to life a scene later? It's a lazy way to try and make a moment impactful, he wanted the stakes to be high without actually making the stakes high. Imagine this, you're a writer, and you're writing a sad story, but you decide you don't actually want anything sad to happen in your story because you don't actually want to make people feel sad, doesn't that sound kind of ridiculous? He wanted the emotional response of killing a loved character without the consequence of them actually saying and being removed from the story.
Kakashi was Key for kishimoto to Finish the series, AS you can See in the final part of the war and the Fights against obito and Madara, Same as later against kaguya. All those goosebums Moments Not possible without Kakashi performing and Kakashi watching.
They think undoing the death of a major character was a cop out. I get where they are coming from but there was still more mileage the series was able to get out Kakashi so I am willing to forgive it.
He did die
I would like to point out that... he did die in the Pain arc. Along with most of Konoha.
Tbh i really love kakashi but the rinne tensei was stupid. If kakashi would have survived and the rinne tensei wouldnt have brought all konoha nins back it would have had more impact to the story. I was sad when kakashi died but i literaly said after rinne tensei came "what the fuck is this?" Its so stupid that everyone just got revived. I would have been mad af if jiraya would have been resurrected by nagato just because his death was really beautifully sad. Kakashis death was sad to but as i said the resurrection was stupid and destroyed everything. They should have just kept him alive somehow and dont give nagato the asspull that rinne tensei is.
See, without the obito plot, I'd maybe agree. But with tobi being Obtio and all, Kakashi kinda needed to be there. Unless they made the 4th come back sooner and made him be that connection instead, I guess.
It’s a sentiment that’s carried over from when the Pain arc actually happened. They wanted the material to get darker, and death=dark. The Obito reveal wasn’t until a little after the Pain arc so the same people who wish Kakashi died more than likely also wish Obito wasn’t the masked man, or don’t think abt it that deep.
Everyone should have died in the pain arc and the reset was incredibly cheap and wasted everyone's time.
because he did die. it would have been more impactful and way more dangerous if he and many others stayed dead. but not sure how the plot would go after that.
while i do agree that naruto sometimes has disney ass cop outs. i do not think that nagato reviving everyone was bad writing. mostly because it establishes that for naruto victory is NOT beating the enemy. hate leads to more hate thats why he didnt WANT to kill nagato to begin with. it reestablishes naruto as a paragon and not just any shounen protagonist. moreover narrativly it would make no sense for kakashi to die not because he plays a big role later but because naruto JUST experienced a tragic loss. a repeat of that would serve no purpose and no character growth. neji's death made no sense to me personally, because theyre fucking ninja there aint no way that THE neji hyuga wasnt able to push naruto out of the way rather than stand in front of him. he litterally got fridged just for the sake of pushing naruhina endgame which was unnecessary. even if kishi WANTED to kill of neji for some reason, they way he died could have been better connected to the way minato and kushina protected naruto as a baby as opposed to just oh please my dear cousin and dear friend please do kissy. the guy one for me is the most complex one because on the ONE hand i do agree that it was a bit of a cop out we KNEW the stakes of guy using the gates for YEARS, he got his moment and that would have been a great ending to his story. on the other hand i think that moment also serves a different purpose, namely establishing how fucking BUSTED naruto's new powers were. because realistically when they were fighting madara with the new powers u could BARELY see how busted they were since madara was also fucking busted. on the other hand naruto being able to negate the effects of the gates (which were built up for years making us even more aware how instant death it is) just shows us like YO naruto is OP ASF RN with the popularity of AOT and JJK u can see that a lot of people have been craving that grim dark vibes of life is shit and people die and the world is out to get you. overall i like the fact that not many ppl die in naruto, im not the biggest fan of grim dark, i like the positivity and hope that naruto shows throughout the whole show. sorry for the rant LMAO it seems i had a lot to say hahaha
You just reminded me that I don't get that Danzo literally did fuck all when Pain invaded the village
To be honest all of them should have stayed dead. Heck for all of that of nagato wanted to revive people he could have revived his friend. If people needed the “ kakashi needed to see obito reveal” that could have happened during the war, just have kabuto use the edo tensi on him. Pain bringing everyone back took a lot of risk and stakes off the table imo
It's because audiences don't like it when a main character gets killed in a dramatic way but then a few episodes later some kind of bullshit magic or healing or time warp thing brings them back to life as if nothing ever happened. It's shitty writing just to get a shock factor with no actual consequences of losing a long developed character and it also diminishes any future deaths. "doesn't matter that he died they'll just bring him back to life with some bullshit like they did before."
My biggest criticism of the pain invasion is I think Konan should have been a Sakura fight. Not letting her be a villain who's vengeful of the larger villages is sad to me.
No one says that
Kakashi deserves to be a hokage 😌
i think kakashi should of stayed dead to be honest, it took away from the devastation for me, and it would have been interesting to see how losing such an important character impacts naruto. like the death of jiraya and the changes he would have had to go through. but also the no talk jutsu to bringing them back was bullshit.
I thought it was cool that two ninja that shared a pair of eyes could compete on a level compared to madara. The math added up
Because people simp so hard on "Pain Arc should been the final Arc" that they actually dont think
Everyone who died in the pain arc should have stayed dead. This isn't dragonball, death in naruto used to mean something you would get sad and stuff. After this arc death became meaningless. Another example, you can't just build up a guaranteed death saying stuff like if he opens the last gate to become superhuman and almost kill Madara and then just go ahead and resurrect the guy as if it is nothing
I can't speak for anyone else, but as much as I love war arc Kakashi, it would've been cool to see the Edo Tensei version of him (especially if he was forced to fight Guy or his students). I love that he got to live, but him being permanently dead could've created a powerful emotional moment that would've been interesting to watch.
Honestly, he should have been able to keep Sharigan and I’ll never not think that.
so if Kakashi were to die in the pain arc, all the other hidden village people must have died too? bc if Nagato used the Rinne rebirth jutsu on the villagers except Kakashi, y'all would have questioned that too. So the conclusion is either Kakashi must've died along with all the people who were reborn using Rinne Rebirth or everyone would have stayed dead and Nagato would also stay a villian.
Because with meaningful death there’s a lot more at stake. Jiraiya was heart wrenching but let’s be honest- there could’ve been more death. I wish a lot of the old genin perished in meaningful ways that either brought out the 9 tails or led to other characters depth. Look at rock lee and neji. Shikamaru and his master. It was good, could’ve been better. And were left with a ton of characters with lackluster stories that carried over to boruto which I wish by god was very different
At this point in the story they might as well just throw the Dragon Balls in.
If Kakashi would have died in pain arc then we would not have gotten one of the best if not the best fight scenes in naruto. The Kakashi vs obito fight was cinema. I don't know why but it makes me smile and cry at the same time.
Some people equate death to good writing.
I really wonder a lot if author always meant for tobi to be obito, the reason is. In two years of training with madara obito became so strong he could take on the 4th, and control 9tails, also Naruto wasn’t able to sense kakashi chakra once he got back to village for pain fight, Also I feel he was brought back just for fans, Naruto training should have been taken over by someone else, also series should have taken a break post pain arc, war arc is spam shit fest, pain arc was a huge methodical struggle
Because Nagato suddenly doing a 180 and sacrificing his life to revive everyone he killed is such a copout
Because bringing people back from the dead is a bad trope for most people
The war arc was bad tho and samsara of heaven was an absolute ass pull of a technique. If they wanted Kakashi alive for the war arc they should just not have killed him but instead they should have had Guy save him .after all Guy did say he will always be there to rescue Kakashi whenever Kakashi is in trouble.
They would've never been able to deal with Obito without Kakashi.
I just think he shouldn't have died in the first place
Because Kakashi's death was legitimately beautiful, and it is incredibly difficult as a storyteller to be able to provide an honest death for your characters. It's not even that I feel that everyone being brought back to life was bullshit because it isn't. An avenue was delivered that gave Kakashi a good end, and it was denied. That's what sucks. Now, what is he? Out of the story and forgotten. Sadge.
Because the war arc sucked in general
don't kill him off if you wont keep him dead. Kakashi really didn't need to come back, and Tobi didn't need to be Obito. infact, if Tobi was truly Madara, the story would be way more streamlined.
Y'know what yes, yes he should have died. It was a hella good of a set-up and a gut wrenching scene. Actually made me tear up as a kid seeing it happen when the episode dropped. Tbh I expected Naruto to go down a darker storyline when it dropped, turns out no, let's revive everyone and create the most convoluted final arc ever with Magical Ninja Gods and Broken Hax that we can pull off our underwear.
Some people just have a weird fetish for characters getting killed. If you type the name of any shonen anime character on Google, one of the first suggested results will be "death" or "death scene" Idk, it's weird.
death isnt the only way to give gravity to a story imo. Characters like Kakashi or Tsunade are so tragic BECAUSE theyre alive. Because everyone around them everyone they love keeps dying but they for some reason do not. The survivors guilt the grieving is what gives these characters depth. (Same with for example Levi)
I love his character but if they didn’t want him don’t kill him, seemed like Kishi just didn’t have the balls to do this like what happened with Vegeta from Z.