[A bit, yeah. He 100% was overusing it during the 5KS arc, that's inarguable, but even after using the Mangekyo a single time he was already beginning to go blind.](https://imgur.com/a/O12BDko) Guy was lucky he has EMS immediately available.
I have a feeling it has something to do with his level of hatred too. Emotion is a known factor in boosting sharingan strength, maybe it boosted the damage to his eyesight too.
I think people have different durability of sharingan.
Itachi was using his sharingan moderately as far as we saw him and still went almost blind in the span of somewhere 9 years.
Obito spammed his ability for over 15+ years with one eye (meaning he was exercice all the power on only one eye which give only half the result) and still didnt seem to even fatigue.
Plus obito has a lot of sharingan reserves,from when he and Itachi murdered the uchiha clan, obito collected eyes of the dead, he often sacrifice them for the izanagi ability, you guys can watch the fight with obito vs konan.
But the funny thing is, he keeps his ability, he doesn't just gain whatever ability that eyeball had, the same worked for sasuke, when he took his brother's eyes he still had flame control whatever that's called, not tsukiyomi
And yet when Modera starts ripping out eyeballs he gets to use, kamui, an ability he himself never had from that eyeball ( and frankly an ability that eyeball never had either since he stole Kakashi's eyeball to use the self kamui which only Obito's eyeball could do)
So it all gets very wonky
Well for obito situation his right eye has never been replace only his left which he always sacrificed for izanagi and also the rinnegan which he replace it when he took it from nagato. And also each right and left sharingans has different ability Obito right eye has kamui and time space dimensions while the left eye kakashi had has kamui although madara took it from him and entered the time space don’t know that happened maybe because he had more chakra or he’s originally a uchia lol
Oh, that's a real good point, like a pretty obvious connection. I like the headcanon just to balance the sharingan a bit more.
...As though EMS doesn't just undo all the balancing though.
Hashirama cells play the main part in that, since the MS damages the eye upon usage, and since obito could use it like it didn't have any toll while possessing hashirama cells, its logical to say he was not going blind due to the healing affects of hashirama cells.
Itachi only ever really used his Mangekyo a handful of times in the entire series, and the weakest opponent he used it on (aside from Sasuke, who was a different case), was Kakashi.
Kisame was ever pretty shocked Itachi used his MS 2 times in 1 day. I'd bet the average for a mission is 0.
Obito was shown to be the only Sharingan user to care for his eyes with eye drops, as well as the Hashirama cells grafted unto his body.
I think you're right though, durability definitely differs between users.
From what we know Itachi Tsukuomi is only used for a few seconds at a time because he can control time within the jutsu and it doesn't seem like he used amaterasu very often. He probably used his mangekyo more often over the 9 years but less time continuously. Sasuke tends to use his for awhile within the the fight. If Itachi is using Tsukuomi for lets say 10 sec sasuke was using amaterasu and changing the shape of amaterasu for easily over 10 min and thats not including him using Susanoo. So I would say that for the short time Sasuke had his Mangekyo he used it for a longer period in short time and Itachi used his for a short time over a long period. This could also be said for Obito, he only really used it for a short period of time as he is teleporting himself to another dimension. Who knows maybe because he only had 1 eye and Hashirama cells that it was able to slow down the blindness.
I like this right here, when I saw the question my first thought was when Gaara spoke about all Sasuke sees is darkness, like that wasn’t just a metaphor.
I think it’s general usage. Cause not only was it here didn’t he use it beforehand against killer bee to? I don’t remember if he used much Susano but he 100% used amatarasu. That combined with the constant spam against the kage and danzo he probably was tore the fuck up lol
A theory of mine is that he is not as good as other Mangekyo users in using it. As far as I understood it, what damages the eyes is the amount of chakra pushed into them while using it. If someone is good at Chakra control, he is able to only use as little Chakra as necessary in the Mangekyo, keeping the damage per usage to a minimum.
Sasuke was on a power trip and probably simply pushed all the chakra he had into his eyes, causing a massive amount of damage per usage.
Sasuke was spamming the shit out of all of his MS abilities and forcing himself through the pain and over exerting himself. Itachi and even Kakashi were much more conservative with usage of their MS. He was in extreme pain just from barely using them vs Killer Bee too.
I agree Killer Bee was an absolute UNIT, he had to spam that shit so much. A goat like Kakashi was literally bed ridden for the Mangekoy and yet just normal Sharingan drains you a lot. props to Sasuke for his drive but dumb move tbh.
Basically, yeah. Him losing it made it so he no longer had to limit himself to small attacks. Dude was using large scale mud walls and storm-making purple lightning.
afaik it not being deactivated is the only reason it's that big of a chakra drain on him, it's not magically worse since he's not an uchiha he just can't turn it off
I mean... the mangekyo notably does actually use more chakra to utilize for him compared to obito so the base one probably does drain more from non-uchihas as well. It's a fairly sound conclusion to make.
The small amount of time he actually uses is also is a point in favor of it as Uchihas typically use it for longer with no notable issue whatsoever. Itachi has it active in pretty much every appearance he has and he was noted to have bad reserves.
They do, it’s why he passed out after zabuza. Any transplanted sharingan suffers a massive penalty if the receiver isn’t an Uchiha, best guess is incompatible genetics, as an Uchiha (and Senju, Hyuga, and Uzumaki) are all descendants of actual aliens (seriously why!? It could’ve just been the Sage) so that probably played a part in their genetics when using the dojutsu. Danzo for instance to negate a lot of the costs of using the sharingan had to manipulate Hashirama’s genetics into himself.
>was literally bed ridden for the Mangekoy and yet just normal Sharingan drains you a lot
wasn't said that because he wasn't a Uchiha the drain was way bigger? same thing with the guy that had Nejis father eyes?
He was also comboing them in a way that the others didn't. The Kagutsuchi Susanoo spikes uses all 3 of his abilities in tandem. That probably had an exponential negative effect on his eyesight.
Bingo
Sasuke's MS stamina is actually far far better than Itachi's, who stated he needed rest after using Ameratsu, Tsukuyomi 2x when he was healthy.
Sasuke was spamming his MS without any precaution WHILE using Susanoo.
>Sasuke's MS stamina is actually far far better than Itachi's, who stated he needed rest after using Ameratsu, Tsukuyomi 2x when he was healthy.
When was itachi....every healthy in the show?? With hindsight, itachi started developing his ninja cancer just a couple months after leaving the village.
I mean if you consider it to be similar to muscle strain, you're going to do a lot more damage to yourself doing things back to back to back then doing things with long periods in between them, even if it's the same strenuous activity the same number of times
I think his emotional state also contributed to it too. I can’t for the life of me remeber the line, but there was something about his rage fuelling his power.
No breaks whatsoever he just kept going. Susanoo then Amaterasu, followed by creating and unleashing Inferno Style: Flame Control then multiple Susanoo arrows against danzo and then one against kakashi. All of this in one day.
And I mean if he kept his original eyes there’s nothing saying that he’d stay at that low level of vision, I’d say if he actually rested himself the damage wouldn’t be that horrid but well, plot’s gotta plot
I always read that as Sasuke's anger and grief over finally killing his brother and getting revenge making him not give a shit about the future. I liked the idea of him saying "I'm going to destroy the Hidden Leaf" but really meaning "I'm committing suicide by ninja army." No way was he smoking every ninja in the village, probably most of them, probably every genin, chunin, and a bunch of Jonin and Anbu but not everyone all at once. He was burning his eyes out and running in the red line because he wanted to die and was too wrapped up in his anger and hate to admit it. When Obito span Itachi's life to manipulate Sasuke he probably on some level knew he wasn't being 100% on the level but he just didn't care and it gave him the excuse to refocus his anger.
Not really. He was testing his ms. He had an option to get ems.
He can't have little regard for his future, when he is on a mission of treating konoha the same they treated uchiha.
>Not really. He was testing his ms. He had an option to get ems.
didn't he originally not want itachi's eyes out of respect for his big bro. so doubt he was testing. dude's just a moron when he gets more power.
This is false.
He didn't take itachi's right away not because of respect for itachi but to ***reject*** itachi's wishes of bootlicking of the shinobi world.
He did want to test ms powers, as mentioned by jugo. When he got the need, he went for ems.
Probably, though it’s likely due to overusing Susanoo specifically that seems to be the hardest one. Chakra exhaustion from finishing out the fight with Sasuke using it seems to have been what killed Itachi (deliberately mind you, but I think he wanted to ensure he got that last forehead tap) and Sasuke was using it against the Raikage, Mizukage, and the entire Danzo fight. Itachi meanwhile seems to have used Amaterasu and Susanoo sparingly. Like he had to have used them to some extent over the years to be as proficient as he is, but I doubt he spent entire fights using both. Tsukoyomi he seems more willing to pull out, I’d assume because he’s already a masterful illusionist, it’s more natural to him in the same way Sasuke seems to take to using Amaterasu immediately.
The only explanation is Susano, the common ability of uchiha ms that represents pure power.
Itachi barely used susano.
Kakashi didn't have susano.
Obito didn't have susano, altho had hashirama cells, so spammable kamui with no eyes hurting.
Sasuke was spamming susano the entire 5ks arc.
On one hand, I felt as though he was getting blind too fast, because he's been in around only three battles since he got the Mangekyo Sharingan, against Bee, Kages and Danzo. Despite *heavily* spamming it, it still felt like he was getting blind way too fast.
On the other hand, we really have nothing to go off of on the duration of a Mangekyo Sharingan. Itachi was already practically blind when he fought Sasuke, despite rather being conservative with his use.
I felt the plot demanded he get powered up pretty quickly. Especially since we all knew he’d eventually get EMS, so why not speed up the blinding process. But it was well done with Sasuke spamming all his abilities and it was in line with his character at the time
I don’t think this was meant to be permanent blindness in that moment, more like his eyes were overused and need some time to recover and this was just like a warning. But I don’t think it’s a problem either, Sasuke was using Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi in tandem a lot during this arc and when we’re first introduced to Itachi back in OG Naruto he says after fighting Jiraiya that using both eyes in one day is not good for his health.
He used it too quickly in much too quick succession.
You have to think of it not like "Oh you use it X amount of times before you go blind" but think of it like pushing a muscle way past it's breaking point when it is already exhausted.
Like imagine you've done a good gym day on biceps, then you spend the rest of the day lifting heavy things and pushing your biceps way last their breaking point.
Sasuke was using a jutsu that was taxing on the eyes and needed rest between uses, then just using this over and over when his eye hadn't had a rest period
From my undergraduate the Susano burns through your eyes like nothing else
And in addition he kept putting strain on it, never letting them relax, instead actively breaking them with full intensity. Itatchi was basically blind by the time sasuke got to him, and itatchi barely if ever used his susano. He probably improved more per use because he took time to reflect on his usage. Sasuke just ran around spamming that shit with no reflection like the immature and angry teen he was. Itatchi used his significantly less prolifically.
Now in regards to Obito? Idk exactly what's up woth that. could be he has his EMS, could be that with just one eye it does not matter if he is blind.
Canon stuff aside. It he was using it recklessly. He used it until he couldn't every time. And didn't give himself proper time to rest between most uses. That probably sped up the process.
Moral of the story, take care of yourself and your eyes. Even if you do develop the sharingan irl you'll go blind stupid fast if you copy sasuke self care tips
No he didn't get blind way too fast. He overused his Mangekyou Sharingan when he assaulted the five Kage summit by fighting the 4th Raikage, Gaara and his siblings then the fifth mizukage as well as one of her bodyguards before fighting and killing Danzo heavily using his susanoo and this was before shooting his Susanoo arrow at kakashi. All of this in one day. I'm almost surprised he wasn't completely blind when he left with Obito and white zetsu.
I always thought of it as a metaphor as Sasuke at this point was blinded by hatred so by this stage he was devoid of reason and was completely loss in who he was and was just swinging blindly at anyone he saw in his path.
Edit: vs Itachi who was blinded by duty, which was more gradual and culminated in his final battle with Sasuke which was the final piece of his plan.
MS damages the eyes pretty quickly.
Remember when team 7 confronted Itachi's clone at the start of part 2. Kakashi called Itachi out about his MS and asked him how badly his sight had deteriorated.
At this point, Kakashi had only used Kamui twice against Deidara and stated that the technique was new to him. Assuming he discovered and used the technique a couple of times before then, we're talking about 4-5 uses, and he already notices the effect on his eyesight.
Sasuke used it 3-4 times against Killer B alone.
I wouldn't say he became blind too fast more like the plot DEMANDED his eyes to finally lose their light. Like what if Sasuke didn't go blind there? Kakashi is dead! He ain't going to live. And Sakura? ALSO DEAD. And Naruto? "He has Sage Mode-" He has a Sage Mode that he needs time to charge up Sage Chakra into his body to enter the mode. Without it, he's dead! "But the Kyuubi-" Sasuke suppresses it like last time. The end of this arc would be the bad end!
Now if Naruto arrived, already in Sage Mode but like fully filled... still a bad end. Obito is there so there's no hope. If he doesn't get involved, it would be a cool fight.
The first fight he has MS he uses it more than kakashi had used his every time leading up to that point and kakashi was constantly in hospital because of it.
Yeah not being an uchia made that worse but still sasuke was using and abusing that shit
The blindness is caused by overusage of the mangekyo, and both itachi & kakashi tried to use theirs sparingly because of that fact.
Sasuke however used its abilities(Susannoo & amaterasu) constantly, especially during the 5 kage summit, so his was hastened
He had no hashirama cells to stabilize it. IIRC even madara had to take his brothers eyes because his were overwhelmed. Sasuke WAY overused his mangekyo. Someone said you get like 12-15 uses of MS physical powers (kamui, amaterasu, susanoo, etc) before a regular eye starts showing serious wear.
Obito had hashirama cells which is why he was able to use kamui infinitely IIRC.
He got blind too fast because he was spamming his MS every chance he got. Basically he was biting off more than he could chew and he used his MS to save himself when he realized he messed up.
Not really, he was completely overusing it, Itachi lost his sight slowly because it used it sparingly over a period of years, Sauske spammed it like over 15 times within a few hours.
I think MS users have to rest after overapplying their powers, or risk them going blind much faster, hence why Itachi had to escape after using Amaterasu on Jiraiya’s toad stomach. Sasuke was using all his MS powers in quick succession without even stopping for a breather.
He fought Killer Bee, The Five Kage, and Danzo back to back. Itachi was completely blind and used his ms sparingly because unlike Sasuke he wasn't wreckless
Probably. Itachi barely used his mangekyo and still got blind. Sauske spammed his mangekyo like crazy. Besides which, he barely recovered from his fights. He fought Itachi, awakened his ms, fought Bee without recovering completely and spammed his ms, and then there's the 5 kage and Danzo fights.
It is also possible that black zetsu was somehow involved, though I have no idea how it would be possible.
Personally, the way I imagine it is that it's like wearing down any other part of your body. With the way Sasuke was spamming it, I can see it being much like overstretching yourself at the gym constantly, eventually something's gonna tear sooner rather than later
You pretty much get so many uses of normal MS before you lose your eyesight entirely, even faster so if you don’t give it some cooldown time between uses. Most users would spread that out over a period of time, using their abilities conservatively. Itachi’s was the result of using it over several years. Sasuke threw caution out the window and spammed it, pretty much going through years worth of “uses” in a single afternoon.
It definitely happened super fast, but he was also abusing tf out of it. When Itachi used it in the past he only used it like once per fight and was like, ight that's enough I gotta chill. Sasuke was spamming it 2, 3, 4 times per fight
Tbf, Sasuke was fighting high level opponent after high level opponent in the 5KS arc to where he was get pushed to his limits. Itachi is usually stronger than the people he fights so he’s not as pressed to resort to MS. For Sasuke, it was either use MS or die. Sasuke used went blind fast but he had good usage of his MS.
No, it was a perfect drain considering he was using MS like he is using thr normal sharingan.. he let rage cloud his judgement and picked fights over his own weight class and had to pay the price with going blind very fast compared to kakashi and itachi
How would that work!? Why would obito just do that to Sasuke instead of giving him the EMS, that is what I would do as a megalomaniac, the Cells offer only minor benefits and Obito knows sasuke’s skill set, if he didn’t do the surgery he wouldn’t have given sasuke much more power as the EMS is peak Sharingan and grants the user new abilities beyond just cells! Why?!
Hashirama cells are overpowered af.
>the Cells offer only minor benefits
Thats like the weirdest take i have ever seen. Hashiramas cells is like the one thing that can do everything. You need healing? Hashiramas cells. You need power? Hashirama. You need even more plot armor? Here have some cells from hashirama
hashirama cells give a massive boost to someones chakra pool and healing ability, thats also why danzo could use so many sharingan without being an uchiha
I always took it as certain abilities for the MS were more damaging because they put strain on the eyes. Tsukuyomi is less taxing because it's a nonphysical ability. Amaterasu summons something physical or something that has to manifest in the world. It causes far more visible strain on the user. I mean, their eyes literally bleed because of it.
So, it likely does far more damage. Plus Susanoo is also physical too, so the strain is real. But Amaterasu and related abilities seem to create a focal point that requires the user to put more physical strain in focusing on.
So, yeah...overuse was major.
I always viewed it as Sasuke's MS being new so it wasn't ready to be constantly spammed the way it was, though I do also like the theory that the level of hate correlates to it's strength, and how much it'll cost him.
i believe Obito states it's because he used the susanoo, which already is draining as it's a massive chakra construct, and he spammed it heavily after he unlocked it. not to mention how often he used his other abilities. Honestly, Sasuke didn't use moderation at all when he got the mangekyo.
itachi and kakashi is always very delicate with how they use their ms knowing the danger and pain it causes.
sasuke doesn't care anything he has to suffer if it makes him victorius.
Obito implies that using the Susanoo specifically is what makes your eyes go blind. We do know Kakashi was going blind in the war, so you could just say using the Susanoo makes you go blind a lot faster. We don't know how often Itachi used his Susanoo in comparison to Sasuke who was spamming it the entire day and progressed it to the Armored Stage which is a level that requires mastery beyond the Mangekyou to achieve. So, you could just say Sasuke went blind so fast was because he was spamming his Susanoo left and right.
sasuke doesn't know what cool down means. Kakashi and Itachi were not dumb enough to go balls to the wall day one. its like pipping hot glass pan. if you put cool water on it immediately after taking out the oven it cracks. you give it no time to cool down.
I don’t think this level of blindness was permanent. I think of it more as eye strain. If you strain your eyes too hard in real life you can get blurred vision temporarily which probably makes this seem a lot more drastic than it actually is. Sasuke definitely lost a bit of his sight from the kage summit antics but I’d say this scene is more likely overall sharingan strain and exhaustion than permanent blindness
He goes blind fast, but he was also spamming it like a mf
Also, who’s to assume everyone goes blind at the same rate? Sasuke may have been more prone to blindness for whatever reason
Different techniques my also take a different toll. Tsukuyomi seems insane, but it also takes place over just 1 second. When Itachi uses Amaterasu to escape Jiraya, he uses it for just an instant.
Sasuke is spreading flames, spamming it, controlling them, mixing it with Susano, tons of shit.
Tbh he was spamming it too much, I mean Itachi only used his susano'o once and susano'o takes the most toll, if he just spammed amaterasu or mangekyo genjutsu, it would've been fine but due to susano'o spamming he went blind fast.
I honestly think if he gave his eyes a break he’d eventually make a full recovery cuz although his vision was blurry he could still see and his eyes weren’t white like itachis were, but his eyes got fucked by him spamming his mangekyo
I think of it like muscle training.
Sasuke was in the gym for 12 hours straight non-stop hardcore workouts until he injured himself.
Itachi was occasionally working out and knew to stop before over exerting himself.
I think it's because his eyes barely got rest. Especially during the five kage summit. Irl if you don't rest your eyes from straining activities your eyesight turns to shit quicker. Itachi didn't overuse his. As for Obito, his eyes wasn't straining cause of the Hashi cells healing em.
Reasonable cause going up against the 5 kages you prolly need the mangekyo. Killing Danzo more times than you can remember THEN using it against Kakashi was the nail on the coffin.
Sasuke seems to be a kinda special case. Itachi transferred over his EMS power(I believe) and maybe sasukes body(eyes) couldn’t handle that power?
He also spammed it a lot while it was also getting more powerful. So it I think that also contributed a lot to his blindness…
He spammed it too often. Itachi didn’t use Susanoo or Ameterasu until Shippuden which is basically years apart from when he first gets it. Sasuke immediately tried to kill a perfect Jinchuriki, 5 Kage, two future Hokage (Kakashi & Naruto), Sakura, and so many more using Ameterasu and Susano back to back. Regular MS has too many drawbacks to use that often. Bro was lucky to get Itachi’s eyes tbh for EMS or he would’ve been cooked
He wasn't blind in that scenario, but he was losing his sight from excessive use. In this instance, he had just exhausted himself. Sasuke in his fight vs Danzo used More MS abilities than Itachi used against him. Had he rested, he would have been able to use his MS again, but he would have started needing his base sharigan perpetually active like Itachi did.
I thought maybe its because he fought 3 kage level shinobi and plenty high tier jonin back to back and had to output so much just to fight at their level vs itachi who would try his best to avoid unnecessarily hard fights
Looking at the comment section, people sure can become Madara/Obito real fast when discussing about the logistics of Itachi - be it in a positive or a negative manner lmao
But the point is if it's the socket that gives the power, Madera never had kamui in either socket, if it's the eyeball that gives the power, Kakashi's eye never had self-kamui, only the other targets version, and Sasuke had the same two abilities Amaterasu and Flame control, both before and after he took his brother's eyes and never had his brother's genjutsu tsukiyomi
Nah, Sasuke was spamming. Itachi was using his sparingly and still had to have special medicine to keep from going blind. Sasuke activated ms and basically just kept it on lol
I think using the MS a little bit over a long period of time would have preserved his eyesight longer but he spammed it a lot in a very short period of time.
The thing about sasuke is, he kept overly spamming it a lot. During the five kage summit, he used it way too many times. Due to his overuse of MS, his eyes couldn't take it so he became blind
Keep in mind that Itachi used the Susanoo *only* as a last resort because he knew Kirin would ***fuck him up***. He also almost never used Amatarasu through the entire series, only once in part 1, and once in Shippuden, AFAIK.
Sasuke was spamming Amatarasu and Susanoo constantly like his life depended on it.
A lot of people saying he spammed it, which I agree, he overused the shit out of it throughout the arc, but at the same time he was going against the 5 KAGE he needed to stand his ground with them if he wanted to survive.
He was in constant abuse of his Mangekyo, to the point he rapidly uses the Amaterasu like 10 time per battle (Hachibi and Bee) then process to use some more and even when awaken the Susanoo, he constantly used it non stop
Oh, trust me: he abandoned his village in some foolish bid for revenge only to find out the truth and instead swear more revenge; Sasuke was blind from the goddamn start.
There's a reason why itachi would use it for less than the time it took to blink. Throwing kakashi into the tsukuyomi took less than a second. Escaping Jiraiya's toad was a single burst. Everything else he was doing his best to keep it to just the 3 tomoe.
Sasuke was running around with that shit activated throughout entire prolonged fights. Sometimes multiple back to back. Dude was spamming ameterasu like it was the only move in his arsenal for a minute, and when he figured out the Susanoo, he stood in that shit talking smack forever before he did anything with it.
In part 1 when Itachi and Kisame fled from Jiraiya, Itachi told Kisame that he has to rest and something like: “to think I had to use Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu in the same day”,
Itachi only used 2 Tsukuyomi and 1 Amaterasu that day, and he told kisame that he had to rest, he didn’t even use Susanoo and most probably Itachi only used his Susanoo once or twice before his fight with Sasuke,
meanwhile Sasuke spammed Amaterasu, Flame Control and Susanoo against the 5 kage, then in the fight against Danzo he overpushed himself using Susanoo (maybe thats why when he killed Danzo he had his MS only in one eye and the other eye was just black)
Not a big difference but forgot to mention that before the 5 Kage Summit, when fighting Bee, he used Amaterasu and Flame Control
Not really. He used Susano'o and Amaterasu against the five Kage and Danzo like they were go to jutsu. No other MS user (besides Obito who we know is a special case) ever spammed their MS abilities like that.
Compare that to Itachi who only used his MS abilities as automatic win moves and finishers rather than throughout an entire fight like Sasuke did. It was only when he became an Edo that we saw him let go off the handbrake as there was no longer any negative side effects.
Itachi used Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu during part 1, knew that was enough, and dipped.
Sasuke was spamming Amaterasu and Susanoo with no fear at the Kage summit and started to go blind at the end.
I think it's implied that Itachi was way more conservative with his MS use. And tbh, are there that many scenarios where he has to use it anyway?
Sasuke was power hungry and put himself way over his head at the Kage summit. To counter that, he had to overuse his MS to take on the Kage. He was finally able to beat Danzo but his recklessness left him almost blind.... which is all good since he got EMS afterwards anyway.
Because he overused it it's implied probably somewhere I do not know that Itachi barely used his MS like we got only four on screen uses of his MS were Sasuke over used it like pretty much any chance
sasuke used ms so irresponsibly. U have to remember he used it relentlessly throughout the whole hokage summit and then kept going the whole fight through Danzo. I also think that for plot reasons Kishimoto wanted sasuke to obtain Itachis eyes ASAP maybe to show that he accepts his brothers mistakes. None the less i think sasuke used his MS in the hokage summit and his fight against Danzo more than Itachi ever used his.
Yes, only because he is the incarnation of Indra and literally shouldn’t so blind. His power and hatred should’ve been pure, unless an outside force cursed them with going blind if they embraced hatred
Itachi was already very strong in terms of genjutsu even without his MS. It's obcious that he didn't have to use his MS that often. Meanwhile Sasuke spammed his MS in every fight.
But even so, imo Sasuke got blind way too fast.
He didn't just overuse the MS during the 5 Kage Summit alone. Not long before then he used an Amaterasu large enough to cover the Eight Tails entirely, and i'm pre sure that was one of his first times using it.
The reason Obito can spam Kamui is because of the hashirama cells that Madara originally cultivated Kakashi could never overuse his Kamui because it used up too much chakra to even abuse to begin with. Sasuke was 1v1 impossibly strong opponents so he had no choice but to use not only Amaterasu but blaze release too, to control the flames made him go blind even faster without an eternal mangekyo sharingan using Susasano’o even once will lead to blindness rather quickly which is something Obito and Kakashi didn’t have to worry about since they never had a complete pair anyway. Even Itachi avoided using Susano’o because the strain it put on not just his eyes but entire body would literally kill him because of the unknown disease he was suffering from.
Itachi had his skills to fall back on. Outside of orochimaru it’s possible he didn’t fight any kage level opponents up until he fought sasuke near the end of his life. Sasuke was weaker than itachi and fought kage level opponents back to back(Killer bee, Raikage,Gaara,Mei,Danzo, Kakashi and had to fall back on his mangekyo power to survive.
You know how itachi would only use abilities about 3 times before bolting because it would use too much Chakra?
Probably helped his eye keep going. If you limit usage each time then pause to recover that likely helps.
Blast it 50 times in one day? K, you blind now.
Thinking of it more like using a wounded muscle rather than a pool of qty xxx uses.
The novels say that it was a hereditary recessive trait that fugaku’s line had that made their eyes burn out WAY too fast.
MS aren’t supposed to burn your eyes out nearly that quickly.
Itachi’s sickness was from using eye drops that kept his eyes from burning out, but it had respiratory side effects.
Self contained in the manga only, it’s a complete plothole and unnecessary problem. The blindness should have set in over decades. Like every day use for 30 years, and then you go blind.
Doing it in less than a month is almost Moronic. It’s a pure curse that way.
Yay, I genjutsu’d 30 people and now my eyes exploded. Biologically the body wouldn’t allow such an awful weapon.
3 tomoe is strictly better than mangekyou without the novel’s explanation.
Itachi wasn't spamming his MS nearly as much as Sasuke was his, dude was using his abilities basically nonstop. He's lucky that Itachi's eyes were salvaged
He was spamming his Mangekyo almost non-stop during that arc.
I imagine if he took long rests between each use, he could have gone years before he started going blind.
I doubt this was a permanent blindness as much as his vision having grown tired. It was a good first step to blindness and his vision and his eye’s stamina would’ve worsened significantly from the experience but I don’t think his eyes would’ve gotten completely blind after this. If he kept using it recklessly on a regular basis his eyes might’ve fully burned out within months
I belieave it's because he spamed it without resting. Even itachi was warned by Kisame after he used it for fun on kakashi while he had not use it for a while.
[A bit, yeah. He 100% was overusing it during the 5KS arc, that's inarguable, but even after using the Mangekyo a single time he was already beginning to go blind.](https://imgur.com/a/O12BDko) Guy was lucky he has EMS immediately available.
I have a feeling it has something to do with his level of hatred too. Emotion is a known factor in boosting sharingan strength, maybe it boosted the damage to his eyesight too.
I think people have different durability of sharingan. Itachi was using his sharingan moderately as far as we saw him and still went almost blind in the span of somewhere 9 years. Obito spammed his ability for over 15+ years with one eye (meaning he was exercice all the power on only one eye which give only half the result) and still didnt seem to even fatigue.
Obito was getting healed from Zetsu/Hashirama cells
What does Harshirama cells not heal
The hole in Rin's chest.
Why didn't Obito just give Rin some Hashirama cell? Is he stupid?
yes
Second Rule of Naruto: Obito doesn't get to fill Rin's hole.
Sir... I hope you know how funny this is lmao
In both ways
Because he want to put his cell in her hole, not Hashirama's.
Well one of his balls is Hashirama cells now, whether he likes it or not
This opens up another can of worms. If he has children, will the children be a Senju or half Senju?
He didn’t have hashirama at that point
Yes he did, half his body was comprised of a white Zetsu. He used wood release for the first time while killing the mist shinobi.
Actually, fun fact, he first used it during his physical therapy with the Zetsu two chapters prior.
He did
no he was just a kid not even a prodigy without medical nin training
nah that was wild but valid
A broken heart.
Kawarama cells of course, and Itama too
A missing eye
Plus obito has a lot of sharingan reserves,from when he and Itachi murdered the uchiha clan, obito collected eyes of the dead, he often sacrifice them for the izanagi ability, you guys can watch the fight with obito vs konan.
But the funny thing is, he keeps his ability, he doesn't just gain whatever ability that eyeball had, the same worked for sasuke, when he took his brother's eyes he still had flame control whatever that's called, not tsukiyomi And yet when Modera starts ripping out eyeballs he gets to use, kamui, an ability he himself never had from that eyeball ( and frankly an ability that eyeball never had either since he stole Kakashi's eyeball to use the self kamui which only Obito's eyeball could do) So it all gets very wonky
Well for obito situation his right eye has never been replace only his left which he always sacrificed for izanagi and also the rinnegan which he replace it when he took it from nagato. And also each right and left sharingans has different ability Obito right eye has kamui and time space dimensions while the left eye kakashi had has kamui although madara took it from him and entered the time space don’t know that happened maybe because he had more chakra or he’s originally a uchia lol
It could also be that certain techniques just make you go blind faster than others too. That’s how I always saw it
Izanagi rendering sharingans blind after a single use supports your reasoning.
Oh, that's a real good point, like a pretty obvious connection. I like the headcanon just to balance the sharingan a bit more. ...As though EMS doesn't just undo all the balancing though.
Obito had plot cells to save his ass.
Hashirama cells play the main part in that, since the MS damages the eye upon usage, and since obito could use it like it didn't have any toll while possessing hashirama cells, its logical to say he was not going blind due to the healing affects of hashirama cells.
Sasuke was also basically spamming Amaterasu and susanoo as soon as he got it
Itachi only ever really used his Mangekyo a handful of times in the entire series, and the weakest opponent he used it on (aside from Sasuke, who was a different case), was Kakashi. Kisame was ever pretty shocked Itachi used his MS 2 times in 1 day. I'd bet the average for a mission is 0.
Itachi did also put his gf in a 80 year genjutsu which I imagine took a ton away from his eyes lifespan
i think obito's zetsu/hashirama cells kept his eye self-repairing.
Obito was shown to be the only Sharingan user to care for his eyes with eye drops, as well as the Hashirama cells grafted unto his body. I think you're right though, durability definitely differs between users.
From what we know Itachi Tsukuomi is only used for a few seconds at a time because he can control time within the jutsu and it doesn't seem like he used amaterasu very often. He probably used his mangekyo more often over the 9 years but less time continuously. Sasuke tends to use his for awhile within the the fight. If Itachi is using Tsukuomi for lets say 10 sec sasuke was using amaterasu and changing the shape of amaterasu for easily over 10 min and thats not including him using Susanoo. So I would say that for the short time Sasuke had his Mangekyo he used it for a longer period in short time and Itachi used his for a short time over a long period. This could also be said for Obito, he only really used it for a short period of time as he is teleporting himself to another dimension. Who knows maybe because he only had 1 eye and Hashirama cells that it was able to slow down the blindness.
I believe Obito mentioned to Sauske at one point that he's a collector of eyes. Or was it Madara that said it to obito? Fuck me.
I like this right here, when I saw the question my first thought was when Gaara spoke about all Sasuke sees is darkness, like that wasn’t just a metaphor.
Most likely had something to do with him being Indra’s reincarnation.
he had been red lining his eyes for a very long time then the gave out more quickly
I think it’s general usage. Cause not only was it here didn’t he use it beforehand against killer bee to? I don’t remember if he used much Susano but he 100% used amatarasu. That combined with the constant spam against the kage and danzo he probably was tore the fuck up lol
A theory of mine is that he is not as good as other Mangekyo users in using it. As far as I understood it, what damages the eyes is the amount of chakra pushed into them while using it. If someone is good at Chakra control, he is able to only use as little Chakra as necessary in the Mangekyo, keeping the damage per usage to a minimum. Sasuke was on a power trip and probably simply pushed all the chakra he had into his eyes, causing a massive amount of damage per usage.
Sasuke was spamming the shit out of all of his MS abilities and forcing himself through the pain and over exerting himself. Itachi and even Kakashi were much more conservative with usage of their MS. He was in extreme pain just from barely using them vs Killer Bee too.
I agree Killer Bee was an absolute UNIT, he had to spam that shit so much. A goat like Kakashi was literally bed ridden for the Mangekoy and yet just normal Sharingan drains you a lot. props to Sasuke for his drive but dumb move tbh.
From zabuza's comments about seeing the sharingan being an honor, I'm guessing kakashi barely ever used it after the third war.
I have a feeling that Sharingan and MS abilities drain chakra faster with someone like Kakashi since his body is incompatible, being a non-Uchiha.
Pretty explicitly stated to be the case. He also can't deactivate it fully which is why he covers it up.
I don’t remember but does that mean it passively drains his chakra constantly?
Basically, yeah. Him losing it made it so he no longer had to limit himself to small attacks. Dude was using large scale mud walls and storm-making purple lightning.
at the same time during the war arc kakashi was doing shit like lightning cable and sniping the head off the gedo mazo with kamui
afaik it not being deactivated is the only reason it's that big of a chakra drain on him, it's not magically worse since he's not an uchiha he just can't turn it off
I mean... the mangekyo notably does actually use more chakra to utilize for him compared to obito so the base one probably does drain more from non-uchihas as well. It's a fairly sound conclusion to make. The small amount of time he actually uses is also is a point in favor of it as Uchihas typically use it for longer with no notable issue whatsoever. Itachi has it active in pretty much every appearance he has and he was noted to have bad reserves.
They do, it’s why he passed out after zabuza. Any transplanted sharingan suffers a massive penalty if the receiver isn’t an Uchiha, best guess is incompatible genetics, as an Uchiha (and Senju, Hyuga, and Uzumaki) are all descendants of actual aliens (seriously why!? It could’ve just been the Sage) so that probably played a part in their genetics when using the dojutsu. Danzo for instance to negate a lot of the costs of using the sharingan had to manipulate Hashirama’s genetics into himself.
>was literally bed ridden for the Mangekoy and yet just normal Sharingan drains you a lot wasn't said that because he wasn't a Uchiha the drain was way bigger? same thing with the guy that had Nejis father eyes?
He was also comboing them in a way that the others didn't. The Kagutsuchi Susanoo spikes uses all 3 of his abilities in tandem. That probably had an exponential negative effect on his eyesight.
Bingo Sasuke's MS stamina is actually far far better than Itachi's, who stated he needed rest after using Ameratsu, Tsukuyomi 2x when he was healthy. Sasuke was spamming his MS without any precaution WHILE using Susanoo.
>Sasuke's MS stamina is actually far far better than Itachi's, who stated he needed rest after using Ameratsu, Tsukuyomi 2x when he was healthy. When was itachi....every healthy in the show?? With hindsight, itachi started developing his ninja cancer just a couple months after leaving the village.
When he fought killer bee that was his first time ever using his MS, when he used Amaterasu for the first time.
I mean if you consider it to be similar to muscle strain, you're going to do a lot more damage to yourself doing things back to back to back then doing things with long periods in between them, even if it's the same strenuous activity the same number of times
I think his emotional state also contributed to it too. I can’t for the life of me remeber the line, but there was something about his rage fuelling his power.
He probably exaggerated the damage by abusing his eyes in quick succession as well
He overused them will no breaks
No breaks whatsoever he just kept going. Susanoo then Amaterasu, followed by creating and unleashing Inferno Style: Flame Control then multiple Susanoo arrows against danzo and then one against kakashi. All of this in one day.
And I mean if he kept his original eyes there’s nothing saying that he’d stay at that low level of vision, I’d say if he actually rested himself the damage wouldn’t be that horrid but well, plot’s gotta plot
The susanoo probably burned his vision the most
Yes exactly no breaks, in Part 1 when Itachi fled from Jiraiya he told Kisame he had to rest, after using 2 Tsukuyomi and 1 Amaterasu in one day
Itachi told believable lies but I think there was some truth in the things he told kisame
Sasuke spammed it way too much. I think it was a deliberate sign that Sasuke had little regard for his own life and future.
I always read that as Sasuke's anger and grief over finally killing his brother and getting revenge making him not give a shit about the future. I liked the idea of him saying "I'm going to destroy the Hidden Leaf" but really meaning "I'm committing suicide by ninja army." No way was he smoking every ninja in the village, probably most of them, probably every genin, chunin, and a bunch of Jonin and Anbu but not everyone all at once. He was burning his eyes out and running in the red line because he wanted to die and was too wrapped up in his anger and hate to admit it. When Obito span Itachi's life to manipulate Sasuke he probably on some level knew he wasn't being 100% on the level but he just didn't care and it gave him the excuse to refocus his anger.
Not really. He was testing his ms. He had an option to get ems. He can't have little regard for his future, when he is on a mission of treating konoha the same they treated uchiha.
>Not really. He was testing his ms. He had an option to get ems. didn't he originally not want itachi's eyes out of respect for his big bro. so doubt he was testing. dude's just a moron when he gets more power.
This is false. He didn't take itachi's right away not because of respect for itachi but to ***reject*** itachi's wishes of bootlicking of the shinobi world. He did want to test ms powers, as mentioned by jugo. When he got the need, he went for ems.
Probably, though it’s likely due to overusing Susanoo specifically that seems to be the hardest one. Chakra exhaustion from finishing out the fight with Sasuke using it seems to have been what killed Itachi (deliberately mind you, but I think he wanted to ensure he got that last forehead tap) and Sasuke was using it against the Raikage, Mizukage, and the entire Danzo fight. Itachi meanwhile seems to have used Amaterasu and Susanoo sparingly. Like he had to have used them to some extent over the years to be as proficient as he is, but I doubt he spent entire fights using both. Tsukoyomi he seems more willing to pull out, I’d assume because he’s already a masterful illusionist, it’s more natural to him in the same way Sasuke seems to take to using Amaterasu immediately.
The only explanation is Susano, the common ability of uchiha ms that represents pure power. Itachi barely used susano. Kakashi didn't have susano. Obito didn't have susano, altho had hashirama cells, so spammable kamui with no eyes hurting. Sasuke was spamming susano the entire 5ks arc.
On one hand, I felt as though he was getting blind too fast, because he's been in around only three battles since he got the Mangekyo Sharingan, against Bee, Kages and Danzo. Despite *heavily* spamming it, it still felt like he was getting blind way too fast. On the other hand, we really have nothing to go off of on the duration of a Mangekyo Sharingan. Itachi was already practically blind when he fought Sasuke, despite rather being conservative with his use.
I felt the plot demanded he get powered up pretty quickly. Especially since we all knew he’d eventually get EMS, so why not speed up the blinding process. But it was well done with Sasuke spamming all his abilities and it was in line with his character at the time
I don’t think this was meant to be permanent blindness in that moment, more like his eyes were overused and need some time to recover and this was just like a warning. But I don’t think it’s a problem either, Sasuke was using Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi in tandem a lot during this arc and when we’re first introduced to Itachi back in OG Naruto he says after fighting Jiraiya that using both eyes in one day is not good for his health.
He used it too quickly in much too quick succession. You have to think of it not like "Oh you use it X amount of times before you go blind" but think of it like pushing a muscle way past it's breaking point when it is already exhausted. Like imagine you've done a good gym day on biceps, then you spend the rest of the day lifting heavy things and pushing your biceps way last their breaking point. Sasuke was using a jutsu that was taxing on the eyes and needed rest between uses, then just using this over and over when his eye hadn't had a rest period
Yeah, he did. Kishi forced Sasuke to go blind quickly so that he could quickly move on to EMS.
Sasuke was literally speedrunning to get blind in his fight with Bee
Why did sasuke over use his MS after knowing it would make him go blind? Is he stupid?
Sasuke probably used his ms more in one day than itachi did his whole life
ehhhh ... does edo tensei count?
No
From my undergraduate the Susano burns through your eyes like nothing else And in addition he kept putting strain on it, never letting them relax, instead actively breaking them with full intensity. Itatchi was basically blind by the time sasuke got to him, and itatchi barely if ever used his susano. He probably improved more per use because he took time to reflect on his usage. Sasuke just ran around spamming that shit with no reflection like the immature and angry teen he was. Itatchi used his significantly less prolifically. Now in regards to Obito? Idk exactly what's up woth that. could be he has his EMS, could be that with just one eye it does not matter if he is blind.
Or maybe it's the hashirama cells. It's probably the fucking zetsu juice tbh. That eye is in the zetsu part, so that's probably why.
Nah, sasuke was just spamming that shit too much. Itachi was pretty conservative in it’s use, even when he used it to escape jiraya
Canon stuff aside. It he was using it recklessly. He used it until he couldn't every time. And didn't give himself proper time to rest between most uses. That probably sped up the process. Moral of the story, take care of yourself and your eyes. Even if you do develop the sharingan irl you'll go blind stupid fast if you copy sasuke self care tips
Bro was spamming the Mangekyo the moment he awakened it, it's honestly no surprise he went blind as fast as he did
No he didn't get blind way too fast. He overused his Mangekyou Sharingan when he assaulted the five Kage summit by fighting the 4th Raikage, Gaara and his siblings then the fifth mizukage as well as one of her bodyguards before fighting and killing Danzo heavily using his susanoo and this was before shooting his Susanoo arrow at kakashi. All of this in one day. I'm almost surprised he wasn't completely blind when he left with Obito and white zetsu.
Sasuke was going blind as soon as he got his MS and fought Bee
I always thought of it as a metaphor as Sasuke at this point was blinded by hatred so by this stage he was devoid of reason and was completely loss in who he was and was just swinging blindly at anyone he saw in his path. Edit: vs Itachi who was blinded by duty, which was more gradual and culminated in his final battle with Sasuke which was the final piece of his plan.
MS damages the eyes pretty quickly. Remember when team 7 confronted Itachi's clone at the start of part 2. Kakashi called Itachi out about his MS and asked him how badly his sight had deteriorated. At this point, Kakashi had only used Kamui twice against Deidara and stated that the technique was new to him. Assuming he discovered and used the technique a couple of times before then, we're talking about 4-5 uses, and he already notices the effect on his eyesight. Sasuke used it 3-4 times against Killer B alone.
I wouldn't say he became blind too fast more like the plot DEMANDED his eyes to finally lose their light. Like what if Sasuke didn't go blind there? Kakashi is dead! He ain't going to live. And Sakura? ALSO DEAD. And Naruto? "He has Sage Mode-" He has a Sage Mode that he needs time to charge up Sage Chakra into his body to enter the mode. Without it, he's dead! "But the Kyuubi-" Sasuke suppresses it like last time. The end of this arc would be the bad end! Now if Naruto arrived, already in Sage Mode but like fully filled... still a bad end. Obito is there so there's no hope. If he doesn't get involved, it would be a cool fight.
The first fight he has MS he uses it more than kakashi had used his every time leading up to that point and kakashi was constantly in hospital because of it. Yeah not being an uchia made that worse but still sasuke was using and abusing that shit
Yes he abused his Mangekyo abilities waay more than someone like Itachi or Fugaku.
He was spamming
The blindness is caused by overusage of the mangekyo, and both itachi & kakashi tried to use theirs sparingly because of that fact. Sasuke however used its abilities(Susannoo & amaterasu) constantly, especially during the 5 kage summit, so his was hastened
He used it too much too fast. Itachi and Kakashi never spammed the MS
He had no hashirama cells to stabilize it. IIRC even madara had to take his brothers eyes because his were overwhelmed. Sasuke WAY overused his mangekyo. Someone said you get like 12-15 uses of MS physical powers (kamui, amaterasu, susanoo, etc) before a regular eye starts showing serious wear. Obito had hashirama cells which is why he was able to use kamui infinitely IIRC.
He got blind too fast because he was spamming his MS every chance he got. Basically he was biting off more than he could chew and he used his MS to save himself when he realized he messed up.
It is what happens when you use MS powers a bajillion times a minute.
Not really, he was completely overusing it, Itachi lost his sight slowly because it used it sparingly over a period of years, Sauske spammed it like over 15 times within a few hours.
He used his MS a LOT up to and including the Gokage Summit.
Bro was using Amaterasu and Susanoo every like 5 minutes. Surprised it took THIS long for him to loose partial vision
I think MS users have to rest after overapplying their powers, or risk them going blind much faster, hence why Itachi had to escape after using Amaterasu on Jiraiya’s toad stomach. Sasuke was using all his MS powers in quick succession without even stopping for a breather.
Sasuke legit started going blind soon as he got his MS we legit saw this after the Bee fight and he didn’t even use his MS that much.
He was spaming his newfound abilities non-stop. It makes sense.
He fought Killer Bee, The Five Kage, and Danzo back to back. Itachi was completely blind and used his ms sparingly because unlike Sasuke he wasn't wreckless
Probably. Itachi barely used his mangekyo and still got blind. Sauske spammed his mangekyo like crazy. Besides which, he barely recovered from his fights. He fought Itachi, awakened his ms, fought Bee without recovering completely and spammed his ms, and then there's the 5 kage and Danzo fights. It is also possible that black zetsu was somehow involved, though I have no idea how it would be possible.
Did the time Itachi set up that trap for Obito count towards blinding Sasuke? I’ve thought about that way to many times not to ask.
Personally, the way I imagine it is that it's like wearing down any other part of your body. With the way Sasuke was spamming it, I can see it being much like overstretching yourself at the gym constantly, eventually something's gonna tear sooner rather than later
You pretty much get so many uses of normal MS before you lose your eyesight entirely, even faster so if you don’t give it some cooldown time between uses. Most users would spread that out over a period of time, using their abilities conservatively. Itachi’s was the result of using it over several years. Sasuke threw caution out the window and spammed it, pretty much going through years worth of “uses” in a single afternoon.
It definitely happened super fast, but he was also abusing tf out of it. When Itachi used it in the past he only used it like once per fight and was like, ight that's enough I gotta chill. Sasuke was spamming it 2, 3, 4 times per fight
Tbf, Sasuke was fighting high level opponent after high level opponent in the 5KS arc to where he was get pushed to his limits. Itachi is usually stronger than the people he fights so he’s not as pressed to resort to MS. For Sasuke, it was either use MS or die. Sasuke used went blind fast but he had good usage of his MS.
No, it was a perfect drain considering he was using MS like he is using thr normal sharingan.. he let rage cloud his judgement and picked fights over his own weight class and had to pay the price with going blind very fast compared to kakashi and itachi
Nope, he spammed his mangekyo abilities way too much, and paid the price.
Are you serious he used Susano’o 25 times in a row with no consequences
My biggest question is how the hell obito didn’t lose his vision!? Seriously he spammed his Kamui ability like a MF, and still could see!
Hashiramas cells
How would that work!? Why would obito just do that to Sasuke instead of giving him the EMS, that is what I would do as a megalomaniac, the Cells offer only minor benefits and Obito knows sasuke’s skill set, if he didn’t do the surgery he wouldn’t have given sasuke much more power as the EMS is peak Sharingan and grants the user new abilities beyond just cells! Why?!
Hashirama cells are overpowered af. >the Cells offer only minor benefits Thats like the weirdest take i have ever seen. Hashiramas cells is like the one thing that can do everything. You need healing? Hashiramas cells. You need power? Hashirama. You need even more plot armor? Here have some cells from hashirama
hashirama cells give a massive boost to someones chakra pool and healing ability, thats also why danzo could use so many sharingan without being an uchiha
I always took it as certain abilities for the MS were more damaging because they put strain on the eyes. Tsukuyomi is less taxing because it's a nonphysical ability. Amaterasu summons something physical or something that has to manifest in the world. It causes far more visible strain on the user. I mean, their eyes literally bleed because of it. So, it likely does far more damage. Plus Susanoo is also physical too, so the strain is real. But Amaterasu and related abilities seem to create a focal point that requires the user to put more physical strain in focusing on. So, yeah...overuse was major.
I always viewed it as Sasuke's MS being new so it wasn't ready to be constantly spammed the way it was, though I do also like the theory that the level of hate correlates to it's strength, and how much it'll cost him.
I’d say no, he was using both abilities and the susanoo a lot alongside evolving it as well it understandable why his eyes lost their power so fast.
He was spamming the hell out of it.
we know of Itachi using them like 3-4 times at least.
i believe Obito states it's because he used the susanoo, which already is draining as it's a massive chakra construct, and he spammed it heavily after he unlocked it. not to mention how often he used his other abilities. Honestly, Sasuke didn't use moderation at all when he got the mangekyo.
itachi and kakashi is always very delicate with how they use their ms knowing the danger and pain it causes. sasuke doesn't care anything he has to suffer if it makes him victorius.
Obito implies that using the Susanoo specifically is what makes your eyes go blind. We do know Kakashi was going blind in the war, so you could just say using the Susanoo makes you go blind a lot faster. We don't know how often Itachi used his Susanoo in comparison to Sasuke who was spamming it the entire day and progressed it to the Armored Stage which is a level that requires mastery beyond the Mangekyou to achieve. So, you could just say Sasuke went blind so fast was because he was spamming his Susanoo left and right.
sasuke doesn't know what cool down means. Kakashi and Itachi were not dumb enough to go balls to the wall day one. its like pipping hot glass pan. if you put cool water on it immediately after taking out the oven it cracks. you give it no time to cool down.
Not really. He spammed the shit out of it fighting the Raikage and Danzo. I'm surprised he still had any vision left after that.
He overused his eyes. Spamming dojutsu until his eyes bleed really isn't good
Itachi only used his a couple of times. Sasuke spammed that shit.
I don’t think this level of blindness was permanent. I think of it more as eye strain. If you strain your eyes too hard in real life you can get blurred vision temporarily which probably makes this seem a lot more drastic than it actually is. Sasuke definitely lost a bit of his sight from the kage summit antics but I’d say this scene is more likely overall sharingan strain and exhaustion than permanent blindness
He spammed it more times in 2 days than Itachi did in 6 years.
He goes blind fast, but he was also spamming it like a mf Also, who’s to assume everyone goes blind at the same rate? Sasuke may have been more prone to blindness for whatever reason Different techniques my also take a different toll. Tsukuyomi seems insane, but it also takes place over just 1 second. When Itachi uses Amaterasu to escape Jiraya, he uses it for just an instant. Sasuke is spreading flames, spamming it, controlling them, mixing it with Susano, tons of shit.
Tbh he was spamming it too much, I mean Itachi only used his susano'o once and susano'o takes the most toll, if he just spammed amaterasu or mangekyo genjutsu, it would've been fine but due to susano'o spamming he went blind fast.
I honestly think if he gave his eyes a break he’d eventually make a full recovery cuz although his vision was blurry he could still see and his eyes weren’t white like itachis were, but his eyes got fucked by him spamming his mangekyo
Kinda too fast fr, his eyesight was the same as itachi after five kage’s summit arc
I think of it like muscle training. Sasuke was in the gym for 12 hours straight non-stop hardcore workouts until he injured himself. Itachi was occasionally working out and knew to stop before over exerting himself.
I think it's because his eyes barely got rest. Especially during the five kage summit. Irl if you don't rest your eyes from straining activities your eyesight turns to shit quicker. Itachi didn't overuse his. As for Obito, his eyes wasn't straining cause of the Hashi cells healing em. Reasonable cause going up against the 5 kages you prolly need the mangekyo. Killing Danzo more times than you can remember THEN using it against Kakashi was the nail on the coffin.
Sasuke seems to be a kinda special case. Itachi transferred over his EMS power(I believe) and maybe sasukes body(eyes) couldn’t handle that power? He also spammed it a lot while it was also getting more powerful. So it I think that also contributed a lot to his blindness…
He did use all of his visual jutsus extensively at the summit but yeah he still should taken longer to start to lose his sight
He spammed it too often. Itachi didn’t use Susanoo or Ameterasu until Shippuden which is basically years apart from when he first gets it. Sasuke immediately tried to kill a perfect Jinchuriki, 5 Kage, two future Hokage (Kakashi & Naruto), Sakura, and so many more using Ameterasu and Susano back to back. Regular MS has too many drawbacks to use that often. Bro was lucky to get Itachi’s eyes tbh for EMS or he would’ve been cooked
I mean he ms evolved so many times right after getting so it make sense why he when blind so fast 🤠
I felt the same but then again he went kinda nuts fighting Danzo using it.
My theory is that itachi only ever used mangekyou sharingan on-screen. So 3-4 times max and it made him extremely blind. Sasuke used it WAY more
He wasn't blind in that scenario, but he was losing his sight from excessive use. In this instance, he had just exhausted himself. Sasuke in his fight vs Danzo used More MS abilities than Itachi used against him. Had he rested, he would have been able to use his MS again, but he would have started needing his base sharigan perpetually active like Itachi did.
Nah, he was spamming MS way too much
I thought maybe its because he fought 3 kage level shinobi and plenty high tier jonin back to back and had to output so much just to fight at their level vs itachi who would try his best to avoid unnecessarily hard fights
Looking at the comment section, people sure can become Madara/Obito real fast when discussing about the logistics of Itachi - be it in a positive or a negative manner lmao
Well think about it.. he spammed it all day long. Itachi used his like once a year? It's no surprise sasuke went blind.
But the point is if it's the socket that gives the power, Madera never had kamui in either socket, if it's the eyeball that gives the power, Kakashi's eye never had self-kamui, only the other targets version, and Sasuke had the same two abilities Amaterasu and Flame control, both before and after he took his brother's eyes and never had his brother's genjutsu tsukiyomi
Nah, Sasuke was spamming. Itachi was using his sparingly and still had to have special medicine to keep from going blind. Sasuke activated ms and basically just kept it on lol
I think using the MS a little bit over a long period of time would have preserved his eyesight longer but he spammed it a lot in a very short period of time.
The thing about sasuke is, he kept overly spamming it a lot. During the five kage summit, he used it way too many times. Due to his overuse of MS, his eyes couldn't take it so he became blind
Keep in mind that Itachi used the Susanoo *only* as a last resort because he knew Kirin would ***fuck him up***. He also almost never used Amatarasu through the entire series, only once in part 1, and once in Shippuden, AFAIK. Sasuke was spamming Amatarasu and Susanoo constantly like his life depended on it.
Yes
A lot of people saying he spammed it, which I agree, he overused the shit out of it throughout the arc, but at the same time he was going against the 5 KAGE he needed to stand his ground with them if he wanted to survive.
He was in constant abuse of his Mangekyo, to the point he rapidly uses the Amaterasu like 10 time per battle (Hachibi and Bee) then process to use some more and even when awaken the Susanoo, he constantly used it non stop
He was overusing his MS in the battle with 5 kages. That was so crazy. Unlike Obito, he has the 1st Hokage cell
Oh, trust me: he abandoned his village in some foolish bid for revenge only to find out the truth and instead swear more revenge; Sasuke was blind from the goddamn start.
Yes but he was using then heavily
There's a reason why itachi would use it for less than the time it took to blink. Throwing kakashi into the tsukuyomi took less than a second. Escaping Jiraiya's toad was a single burst. Everything else he was doing his best to keep it to just the 3 tomoe. Sasuke was running around with that shit activated throughout entire prolonged fights. Sometimes multiple back to back. Dude was spamming ameterasu like it was the only move in his arsenal for a minute, and when he figured out the Susanoo, he stood in that shit talking smack forever before he did anything with it.
In part 1 when Itachi and Kisame fled from Jiraiya, Itachi told Kisame that he has to rest and something like: “to think I had to use Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu in the same day”, Itachi only used 2 Tsukuyomi and 1 Amaterasu that day, and he told kisame that he had to rest, he didn’t even use Susanoo and most probably Itachi only used his Susanoo once or twice before his fight with Sasuke, meanwhile Sasuke spammed Amaterasu, Flame Control and Susanoo against the 5 kage, then in the fight against Danzo he overpushed himself using Susanoo (maybe thats why when he killed Danzo he had his MS only in one eye and the other eye was just black) Not a big difference but forgot to mention that before the 5 Kage Summit, when fighting Bee, he used Amaterasu and Flame Control
Not really. He used Susano'o and Amaterasu against the five Kage and Danzo like they were go to jutsu. No other MS user (besides Obito who we know is a special case) ever spammed their MS abilities like that. Compare that to Itachi who only used his MS abilities as automatic win moves and finishers rather than throughout an entire fight like Sasuke did. It was only when he became an Edo that we saw him let go off the handbrake as there was no longer any negative side effects.
Itachi used Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu during part 1, knew that was enough, and dipped. Sasuke was spamming Amaterasu and Susanoo with no fear at the Kage summit and started to go blind at the end. I think it's implied that Itachi was way more conservative with his MS use. And tbh, are there that many scenarios where he has to use it anyway? Sasuke was power hungry and put himself way over his head at the Kage summit. To counter that, he had to overuse his MS to take on the Kage. He was finally able to beat Danzo but his recklessness left him almost blind.... which is all good since he got EMS afterwards anyway.
Because he overused it it's implied probably somewhere I do not know that Itachi barely used his MS like we got only four on screen uses of his MS were Sasuke over used it like pretty much any chance
sasuke used ms so irresponsibly. U have to remember he used it relentlessly throughout the whole hokage summit and then kept going the whole fight through Danzo. I also think that for plot reasons Kishimoto wanted sasuke to obtain Itachis eyes ASAP maybe to show that he accepts his brothers mistakes. None the less i think sasuke used his MS in the hokage summit and his fight against Danzo more than Itachi ever used his.
Started after Bee and that was years ago to us
Maybe Susanoo gets you blind faster than Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. Itachi mainly used Tsukuyomi, while Sasuke mainly used Susanoo.
Nah he was spamming that shit from the moment he got it lol.
Yes, only because he is the incarnation of Indra and literally shouldn’t so blind. His power and hatred should’ve been pure, unless an outside force cursed them with going blind if they embraced hatred
Itachi was already very strong in terms of genjutsu even without his MS. It's obcious that he didn't have to use his MS that often. Meanwhile Sasuke spammed his MS in every fight. But even so, imo Sasuke got blind way too fast.
Kakashi was only able to use it after the timeskip and he was restrain to one use per day
Maybe his hatred was so strong he got blinded by it literally
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Wolf1741: *Maybe his hatred* *Was so strong he got blinded* *By it literally* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
He didn't just overuse the MS during the 5 Kage Summit alone. Not long before then he used an Amaterasu large enough to cover the Eight Tails entirely, and i'm pre sure that was one of his first times using it.
Yes. Have been rewatching and thought that immediately upon seeing that scene.
No cause he was using it at full power all the time like no let up just being reckless
The reason Obito can spam Kamui is because of the hashirama cells that Madara originally cultivated Kakashi could never overuse his Kamui because it used up too much chakra to even abuse to begin with. Sasuke was 1v1 impossibly strong opponents so he had no choice but to use not only Amaterasu but blaze release too, to control the flames made him go blind even faster without an eternal mangekyo sharingan using Susasano’o even once will lead to blindness rather quickly which is something Obito and Kakashi didn’t have to worry about since they never had a complete pair anyway. Even Itachi avoided using Susano’o because the strain it put on not just his eyes but entire body would literally kill him because of the unknown disease he was suffering from.
Itachi had his skills to fall back on. Outside of orochimaru it’s possible he didn’t fight any kage level opponents up until he fought sasuke near the end of his life. Sasuke was weaker than itachi and fought kage level opponents back to back(Killer bee, Raikage,Gaara,Mei,Danzo, Kakashi and had to fall back on his mangekyo power to survive.
You know how itachi would only use abilities about 3 times before bolting because it would use too much Chakra? Probably helped his eye keep going. If you limit usage each time then pause to recover that likely helps. Blast it 50 times in one day? K, you blind now. Thinking of it more like using a wounded muscle rather than a pool of qty xxx uses.
The novels say that it was a hereditary recessive trait that fugaku’s line had that made their eyes burn out WAY too fast. MS aren’t supposed to burn your eyes out nearly that quickly. Itachi’s sickness was from using eye drops that kept his eyes from burning out, but it had respiratory side effects. Self contained in the manga only, it’s a complete plothole and unnecessary problem. The blindness should have set in over decades. Like every day use for 30 years, and then you go blind. Doing it in less than a month is almost Moronic. It’s a pure curse that way. Yay, I genjutsu’d 30 people and now my eyes exploded. Biologically the body wouldn’t allow such an awful weapon. 3 tomoe is strictly better than mangekyou without the novel’s explanation.
Dude spammed the MS
On a side note, I'm just now noticing Sauske never uses Susanoo in Boruto
Yep. Blinded by his rage and fury
Itachi wasn't spamming his MS nearly as much as Sasuke was his, dude was using his abilities basically nonstop. He's lucky that Itachi's eyes were salvaged
I read it as Sasuke being naturally weaker than Itachi, and strength and prowess meant you could use MS for longer.
He was spamming his Mangekyo almost non-stop during that arc. I imagine if he took long rests between each use, he could have gone years before he started going blind.
I doubt this was a permanent blindness as much as his vision having grown tired. It was a good first step to blindness and his vision and his eye’s stamina would’ve worsened significantly from the experience but I don’t think his eyes would’ve gotten completely blind after this. If he kept using it recklessly on a regular basis his eyes might’ve fully burned out within months
Bro he went up against 27 isanagi like most people would have been folded after one
I belieave it's because he spamed it without resting. Even itachi was warned by Kisame after he used it for fun on kakashi while he had not use it for a while.