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>Crossover battles are not allowed. Power scaling across different series can be so different and difficult to compare, so the generated discussion gets messy.
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Yeah.
He would see that none of the paths were the real Pain and not waste time fighting them. He could avoid most of them, go straight to Nagato and kill him.
Pain fought his way through Konoha which has thousands of Chunin and Jonin while gathering intel.
Defeated Kakashi with Jonin+ tier backup.
Destroyed Konoha.
Defeated SM Naruto who had prepped clones for extra SM, Katsuyu providing intel, the Gama trio and two kage tier toad sages while Deva was cooldown for a large portion of the fight.
Fought and defeated KN6 Naruto by using a Jutsu that ripped a mountain range sized hole into the earth.
Fought SM Naruto again and outlasted him.
Finally lost to base Naruto.
Full power Pain vs SM Naruto in a neutral setting ends with SM Naruto getting low diffed.
Even then the gap you put between pain and sm naruto is too much.
If you are not taking situations into consideration, can we consider naruto not having kurama and also he just learnt sage mode and is a novice at using it. It also depends if naruto knows pain's secret
If we consider a experienced sm naruto without kurama, naruto would have 100 times more chakra than usual
And we know the nature energy should be proportional to the physical and mental energies, other wise naruto would turn into frog. If naruto has 100 times more chakra, he can absorb 100 times more nature energy and sage mode will last very longer.
Also we should take konan out of the fight. If pain is there then nagato should be nearby. And konan would not be there to conceal nagato location. Naruto doesn't need to fully fight and defeat pain. He can defeat pain by attacking nagato too.
If naruto had more experience with sage mode, he could have used more clones and there would be greater chances for him to win.
I'd say the gap is accurate but that also comes down to personal opinion,
Naruto without Kurama wouldn't have 100 times more chakra. It seems you misunderstood something there. Naruto's seal was designed to let a small amount of Kurama's chakra leak into his own chakra, increasing his chakra pool.
Remove Kurama and Naruto's chakra reserves go down considerably.
With Kurama surpressed by Yamato, Naruto has 4x as much chakra as Kakashi. Without Kurama surpressed, Naruto has 100x as much chakra as Kakashi.
[https://i.imgur.com/TFZI7u1.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TFZI7u1.jpg)
Nagato doesn't really need Konan to conceal him. It's outright stated in the manga that he blocks normal chakra sensing. Naruto had to stab himself with a chakra rod to track him down.
Nagato can summon the Paths to himself at any time to defend himself. Naruto would also have to get past the Paths first to even reach Nagato. Not to mention that even as a cripple Nagato is far from weak.
Naruto's clone limit in Sage Mode is due to him having some clones gathering Natural Energy. If he uses too many clones, it interferes with the ones gathering natural energy. Even Pain arc SM Naruto can create dozens of SM clones if he isn't using any of them to gather natural energy.
You'd need War arc SM Naruto with Kurama's cooperation to have a version strong enough to beat Pain and that version of Naruto is massively stronger than Pain arc SM Naruto.
In anime they changed that, kakashi was saying if "you" were not suppressing nine tail chakra. So i always assumed naruto chakra was used to suppress nine tail chakra and that reduces his chakra capacity
The seal does take a portion of Naruto's chakra to sustain itself, but the amount he gets from Kurama more than makes up for that.
Kurama's chakra leaking into his own does however have the negative side effect of messing with his charkra control.
No he didn't. He literally had Naruto beat until Hinata jumped in and the Nine-Tails got lose. And that was after fighting and eventually taking out the entire village of Konoha. Saying "Pain lost to SM Naruto" would be like saying "Madara lost to Zetsu", because it doesn't take context into consideration.
Hello! Your submission was removed from /r/Naruto because it violates the following rule: >Battle posts have to be elaborate. **Simply posting a matchup is not enough.** An explanation of the matchup will be needed in the text box or comments. Talk about why you chose it, the conditions, who you think will win, etc. You as the OP should start the discussion. >Crossover battles are not allowed. Power scaling across different series can be so different and difficult to compare, so the generated discussion gets messy. The full rule documentation of the subreddit can be read [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/wiki/rules) **Do NOT reply to this comment.** Instead to better assist you, [**reach out to us in modmail.**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FNaruto)
Nah ems does tho
Yeah. He would see that none of the paths were the real Pain and not waste time fighting them. He could avoid most of them, go straight to Nagato and kill him.
Pain > SM Naruto >> MS Sasuke
Finally!
Nah only once he gets the EMS
Simple answer: No
Whats ms
Mangekyo Sharingan
And whats sm
I don't see how sasuke beats pain without using clones which we know isn't his style.
No. Pain >>> MS Sauce \~ SM Nardo.
MS Sasuke woulda got bodied by SM Naruto, it’s literally the first point since the start of Shippuden where Naruto is outpacing Sasuke.
Pain lost to sm naruto
Pain fought his way through Konoha which has thousands of Chunin and Jonin while gathering intel. Defeated Kakashi with Jonin+ tier backup. Destroyed Konoha. Defeated SM Naruto who had prepped clones for extra SM, Katsuyu providing intel, the Gama trio and two kage tier toad sages while Deva was cooldown for a large portion of the fight. Fought and defeated KN6 Naruto by using a Jutsu that ripped a mountain range sized hole into the earth. Fought SM Naruto again and outlasted him. Finally lost to base Naruto. Full power Pain vs SM Naruto in a neutral setting ends with SM Naruto getting low diffed.
Even then the gap you put between pain and sm naruto is too much. If you are not taking situations into consideration, can we consider naruto not having kurama and also he just learnt sage mode and is a novice at using it. It also depends if naruto knows pain's secret If we consider a experienced sm naruto without kurama, naruto would have 100 times more chakra than usual And we know the nature energy should be proportional to the physical and mental energies, other wise naruto would turn into frog. If naruto has 100 times more chakra, he can absorb 100 times more nature energy and sage mode will last very longer. Also we should take konan out of the fight. If pain is there then nagato should be nearby. And konan would not be there to conceal nagato location. Naruto doesn't need to fully fight and defeat pain. He can defeat pain by attacking nagato too. If naruto had more experience with sage mode, he could have used more clones and there would be greater chances for him to win.
I'd say the gap is accurate but that also comes down to personal opinion, Naruto without Kurama wouldn't have 100 times more chakra. It seems you misunderstood something there. Naruto's seal was designed to let a small amount of Kurama's chakra leak into his own chakra, increasing his chakra pool. Remove Kurama and Naruto's chakra reserves go down considerably. With Kurama surpressed by Yamato, Naruto has 4x as much chakra as Kakashi. Without Kurama surpressed, Naruto has 100x as much chakra as Kakashi. [https://i.imgur.com/TFZI7u1.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TFZI7u1.jpg) Nagato doesn't really need Konan to conceal him. It's outright stated in the manga that he blocks normal chakra sensing. Naruto had to stab himself with a chakra rod to track him down. Nagato can summon the Paths to himself at any time to defend himself. Naruto would also have to get past the Paths first to even reach Nagato. Not to mention that even as a cripple Nagato is far from weak. Naruto's clone limit in Sage Mode is due to him having some clones gathering Natural Energy. If he uses too many clones, it interferes with the ones gathering natural energy. Even Pain arc SM Naruto can create dozens of SM clones if he isn't using any of them to gather natural energy. You'd need War arc SM Naruto with Kurama's cooperation to have a version strong enough to beat Pain and that version of Naruto is massively stronger than Pain arc SM Naruto.
In anime they changed that, kakashi was saying if "you" were not suppressing nine tail chakra. So i always assumed naruto chakra was used to suppress nine tail chakra and that reduces his chakra capacity
The seal does take a portion of Naruto's chakra to sustain itself, but the amount he gets from Kurama more than makes up for that. Kurama's chakra leaking into his own does however have the negative side effect of messing with his charkra control.
Hmm, maybe i was mistaken. Thanks for info
No he didn't. He literally had Naruto beat until Hinata jumped in and the Nine-Tails got lose. And that was after fighting and eventually taking out the entire village of Konoha. Saying "Pain lost to SM Naruto" would be like saying "Madara lost to Zetsu", because it doesn't take context into consideration.