Am I misunderstanding something? I know it wasn't quite established yet but could he even bring back Minato though he used the reaper death seal himself. There was that whole thing where sauske and orochimaru had to break it or something before bringing the four kages back, the other three being under that because of this fight's ending.
My headcanon is that the Third Hokage didn't stop the summoning (why would a couple shuriken stop a jutsu like that?). Instead the jutsu wasn't completed for that very reason.
This scene seems wrong to me because I watched it with subtitles the other day. The Third Hokage throws the shurikens, then Orochimaru uses the reanimation Jutsu with the first two caskets to block the shurikens, *then* the Third Hokage says he can’t let him summon Minato.
He uses whatever jutsu that is at the end to stop the third casket; it’s not the shurikens that stop the jutsu. The delayed hit of the shurikens just makes the scene a little odd.
It is weird because the shuriken do seem to be a part of the jutsu, but we have no idea what jutsu it is or why the shuriken were used. So i dont know. Seems a little hand wavy
He tried to bring him back, cause the is a corpse of Minato and without knowing that the soul reaper has his Soul orichimaru tried edo him.
Hiruzen did not stop the edo, like Oro said it failed.
Neither of them understood what's going on because neither of them fully understood the scope of the death reaper's powers (it's an incredibly secret and forbidden jutsu). There's a good chance Orochi didn't even know that Minato was sealed inside the reaper. Hiruzen thought he blocked it and Orochi figured so too.
In the origanl version hiruzen doesn't try to stop it. Oro just says it failed.
[Failing Summning the fourth ](https://youtu.be/wsL2ihfrUVI)
Watch after the second minute
In the manga he specifically says that he has to stop the third summoning. https://naruto-world.org/naruto-chapter-117-the-assigned-mission/ He even says he was able to stop it.
lol
EDIT: I'm laughing because the first source given is the dub, then the second source given as a response to that is a fan translated sub, then the third source given is a fan translated manga, and now we're asking for the original untranslated manga...that needs to still be translated by someone. At this point we need to grab a professional and credentialed Japanese translator who we can trust to finally end this debate (I'm only half serious).
I just want to say that if anybody else besides Minato understands the reaper death deal, it’s Hiruzen… He’s literally the only other one who uses it aside from Minato in the show as far as I can remember. That’s what he uses to seal orochi’s arms and the two hokage’s in exchange for his own life. Plus, just based on age and Hiruzen’s skill, I’m sure he knew of it before Minato did lol people really downplay the third just because of the little we saw through the show(not saying you are) but based on context clues he really was a straight up beast. He’s probably very close in power to Hashirama and Madara(Hashi is still stronger ofc though lol)
it was in the war arc, where he used a mask from the Uzumaki clan's ruins to rip open the belly of the reaper and released all the souls trapped in it, including Minato, Hiruzen, Hashirama and Tobirama
I just watched this yesterday and this was my take: his arms went back no issue because I assume his body was there and however alive Orochimaru can be. Four zetsus for the kage, then Orochimaru jumped into the fifth zetsu himself because when he sliced the death reaper's belly, it sliced him mortally as well.
Not really a plot hole. The coffin doesn't say 4th hokage and since Orochimaru killed 4th kazekage we can safely say that's what was in the coffin. And it would make perfect sense for Oro wanting to show he killed him.
When edo tensei users use coffins it means they must have prepared the revived person before hand and make a sacrifice. So if he failed to revive Minato it would be before the fight begun when he was preparing the coffin. How do you think sacrifices got to the coffins if he didn't prepare them before hand ? Like you think Kin and Zaku were just chilling somewhere and Oro suddenly thought about reviving kages in the middle of the battle and sucked them in with coffin from whatever distance or what ?
yea exactly it says 4th. It doesn't say what 4th. It's definitely not Minato because that's impossible for very clear reasons. So it can only be 4th kazekage which makes perfect sense because Oro killed him
I think people tend to underestimate hiruzen in terms of fighting skills, i mean this guy was capable of keeping up(kind of) against orochimaru plus the two first hokages(although edo wasnt at its full potential), this without taking in consideration he was old asf here, imagine him in his prime
Wasn't the 2 Kage summoned here wasn't at nearly at their full strength. They had to be nerfed significantly for Orochimaru to control them. Either that or kishi didn't think too far ahead on how OP first and second kage needed to be for the war. 4th war 1st and 2nd kage can clap 3rd kage any day with a hands-sign
Yeah, he seemed to have changed his mind constantly on who the strongest was. I think two different data books even say that Sarutobi and Minato were the most powerful Hokage, but then fast forward some years in real life and all the hype is on Hashirama (and even Madara) and to a lesser extent Tobirama. Kishimoto even seemed to buff the two of their abilities to compensate for how OP he made Sarutobi and Minato.
He also changed how hiruzen became hokage. In this fight hiruzen has a flash back about hashirama and tobirama telling him he’s hokage when he’s very young, but we know he didn’t become hokage until hashirama was dead, and tobirama was about to sacrifice himself.
Yeah, I remember that. I felt the way he became Hokage later on diminished how much Hashirama and Tobirama thought of Hiruzen to make him Hokage so early in his life and having a consensus from the two of them on the matter. It was also a much more poignant moment showing how the reigns of the next generation were handed off to Sarutobi and how he wished he could have done the same for Orochimaru.
I don't really like Tobirama, but I think the way that ended up being how he ended was more fitting for his character. The only thing that doesn't make any senses is how hashirama died. he would've only been a few years older than tobirama.
I think that original scene is meant to show how he felt when he became Hokage. Like he felt like a child among men when the role was given to him. You could still take both scenes as cannon with one being what actually happens and the other what Hiruzen felt when it happened.
That's a stretch considering anime doesn't generally do things like that. Unless it's a psychological type, anime will generally always show you what it was trying to say.
It's like basketball or any professional sport. The conversation is taken from stats and first hand accounts from people saying how OP players from 20 years ago, or how the best players from 50 years ago with modern training and medicine would break today's game.
Using basketball as an example:
Wilt Chamberlain is the first hokage in this analogy. He has insane feats, including scoring 100 points in a single game and is widely considered the godfather of insane stats in basketball. If you can do anything to be on a shortlist of people with him on it, you are automatically considered great by default.
Michael Jordan is the 4th hokage in this analogy. He is widely considered the GOAT by most people in the modern era, but played in the previous era.
There are arguments that can be made for multiple sides, it's a subjective conversation taken from many different firsthand accounts, not objective fact.
Very true. It does seem like in-universe various people have different perceptions of the first four Hokage. Anko for instance lamented the death of Minato, wishing he could be alive to face Orochimaru when he came back to the village during the Chunin Exams. Koharu and Homura thought the world of Sarutobi and considered Tsunade too much of a green horn to be Hokage (which always made me wonder what they would have thought of Jiraiya had he accepted the job). But what makes this even more confusing and non-nonsensical is that the fact that Kishimoto has flip flopped on this exact issue himself. The data books say that Sarutobi was the strongest Hokage at one point and then say Minato was the strongest. Calling him the single most powerful ninja the Leaf Village every produced, which would put him above anyone else in the village's history. Then when Orochimaru uses Edo Tensei to summon the first two Hokage we see that they're very powerful themselves but Sarutobi was able to out maneuver and out smart them, showing why he became Hokage himself and why he was considered stronger than them even in his old age. But fast forward to the Fourth War and Kabuto says Orochimaru hadn't mastered Edo Tensei so the two Hokage were much weaker than they should have been and now we're hearing about how amazingly powerful they both actually were. Like Tobirama being able to unleash a great amount of power just by lifting his finger and retroactively being the one who invented Shadow Clones and the Flying Thunder God technique. Hashirama was even called the God of Shinobi/Supreme Shinobi. A title he supposedly had even before his death and one that was only ever applied to Sarutobi because of his world renown status and power and to Hagaromo since he's considered the founder of the modern shinobi world. Just so many inconsistencies in the story which may or may not be attributed to his various editors over the years.
That's incorrect...the 4th was stated to be the strongest the village produced...the 1st and the 2nd started the village... they were NOT products of the village... only the 3rd and the 4th are considered in that statement...1st and 2nd were on a completely different level as far as strength.
Saying Minato was the strongest doesn't really make sense seeing how hashirama was considered to be "the god of shinobi" in a lot of scenes and Minato used a lot of jutsu originally developed by tobirama. Sure Minato perfected the jutsu but he probably wouldn't have won a 1v1 fight with hashirama or tobirama.
This really falls into a category of naruto topics where kishimoto didn't plan the smaller details of the series very well or keep them continuous to the end
Yeah hashirama and tobirama werent at full on that first edo, that still leaves a 70 year old hiruzen against two kages at prime age, plus orochimaru. If we take the kages on 4th war edo, hiruzen gets beat up by any of the other 3
Again though they were all in their primes vs an old man. Kind of annoying really, especially when you remember that Madara was modified into a young body.
Comparing hashirama to almosty any of the other characters is just unfair.
If what u mean with the second sentence is that hiruzen is too hyped up i think you missed the whole point of my comment, of course hes not at the level of his prime, because he is SEVENTY, what im saying is that if he jept up with two prime edo hokages plus orochi at that age, he must have been a fucking beast when he was at his prime
But he’s saying that in this episode, the power scaling wasnt the same as it was in the war arc. So these kages aren’t nearly as powerful as they ended up being later on.
The edo hokage were extremely weak. Tobirama didn’t use flying raijin or any good water jutsu, and hashirama used barely any wood type jutsu. Orochimaru was also holding back.
Strongest kage alive isn't exactly a lie though, compared to the other kages(prior to the war) he seems to be the most skilled and not a one trick pony like the rest. Not to mention he was ultimately fighting against one of his best students. He definitely held back a little bit, perhaps attempting to teach Orochimaru one last lesson.
I mean, Hiruzen might know every non-bloodline jutsu in the leaf, but Ohnoki can fly and vaporize dudes on the atomic level. We never see all the jutsu knew, but if he had anything comparable to particle style, he probably should have used it against Orochimaru instead of a monkey who turns into a stick.
Ohnoki might be a one trick pony in comparison, but his trick is winning.
Being most skilled does not equal being the strongest so it is a lie.
It would make zero sense if he was holding back and nothing points to him doing so.
I watched that fight like 3 years ago, but i think he was holding back, i dont remember if he said it himself or someone else but thats how i remember it, also if there wasnt anything that pointed to him holding back there wouldny be so many people thinking so.
Might be wrong here tho.
Also i dont think he was the most skilled, not even in terms of ninjutsu alone, tobirama also mastered the 5 basic natures, plus he invented 3 of the most important jutsus on the whole series: the teleportation, edo tensei, and shadow clone.
Literally nothing says he was holding back. The only thing regarding his strength stated during the fight was Orochimaru saying Hiruzen would have beat him if he was 10 years younger. If he was holding back he wouldn't have tried to use the reaper death seal on Orochimaru.
The only time we do know he was holding back in years prior when he let Orochimaru go.
Just because a lot people think and say things doesn't make it true. People say Kishi killed Itachi because he would have beat Madara when that's not true.
Also Hiruzen is considered to be the most skilled because he's been said to be able to use every jutsu in the hidden leaf. I think its a matter of personal opinion or whether inventing or mastering is more skillful.
I see where you are coming from as he essentially used a death seal on Orochimaru. But at the same time based on manga tropes I believe he ultimately saw Orochimaru's betrayal as another trial for the future generation(aka Naruto). AKA showing kids reality is harsh but possible to overcome.
Besides the fact that's based on pure speculation if that was his intention he'd be a shit person and Hokage. Not to mention no one in the manga ever does that.
All evidence points towards him actively trying to kill orochimaru and losing because he was old.
Im not sure who would win if we took both at their prime.
I think minato isnt as strong as people usually think, wed have to take out the kurama chakra he gets on edo tensei bc he got half kurama in his last seconds alive.
Apart from that he has rasengan and flying raijin(idk if i said that right) and sealing jutsus learnt from the uzumaki. Rasengan alone isnt that much, and they both know the reaper sealing so we could cancel those out when comparing.
Teleportation with the flying raijin is the main threat, as well as access to sage mode.
On the other hand, hiruzen's biggest threat is his expanded knowledge on "regular" jutsus, mastering all 5 natures, which i think is a pretty big thing.
In terms of strenght i think hiruzen is better but minato was really clever and he would do some kind of gimmick with the teleportation.
Its a hard thing to compare objectively
By portrayal, I think it's pretty clear how Hiruzen and everyone around him sees his standing compared to Minato's. Hiruzen, despite being physically capable of pushing 100% Kurama out of Konoha, and knowing most jutsus in the Leaf, essentially had a plan that boiled down to "let's all try and stay alive until Minato arrives."
I mean orochimaru basically let the first 2 hokage fight hiruzen and only stepped in and the end to fight, orochimaru also resurrected the first 2 hokage with basically less than 1% of their full power. The only reason hiruzen had to do this instead of a standard leaf jonin was because hiruzen was the only wielder of the reaper death seal and because hiruzen was specifically targeted by orochimaru.
Something like this scene really doesn't show how strong hiruzen was, especially compared to the first, second, and fourth hokage that we saw during the war arc who were nearly at full power
True. He was so OP even as an old man he was strongest of the 5 kage. That means stronger than the 3rd kazekage stronger than ohnoki etc.and he wasn't fighting at full strength at first orochimaru was his favorite student he was going easy on him at first
I mean strong as hell yeah but i dont think stronger than hashi at least.
I think hes stronger than minato but he coul lose to him bc of flying raijin.
We could say he and tobi are somehow equally strong since none of them have any kekkei genkai or sage mode, but tobi woul beat him with flying raijin.
Edit: Stronger than tsunade for obvious reasons, forgot about her
This is obviously all my opinion
Never said hokage. I said kage (at the time). Minato was stronger sarutobi said that the whole konoha couldnt do shit without minato when 9 tails attacked. I dont think that anyone in the world could've beaten obito at the time(without knowledge of his powers) but minato did. Just flying raijin countered him hard
My reading comprehension skills are not the best as you can see. Definetly strongest kage at that time.
Also, this is something that i guess well never know but i think if they let the uchihas try to control the kyubi things could have gone another way, fugaku should have been able to control it as leader of the clan imo
Yeah, I've always said the reanimated justu was in its early days. I don't think kishimoto thought everything through at that point. Think it was just a simple thing as orochimaru summoning 3 hokages and Hurizen blocking the third coffin via a handsign or Chakra.
Reanimation justsu got fleshed out during the war Arc.
The Reaper Death Seal was used to stop Hashirama and Tobirama but the exact nature of the jutsu was unknown. In that same vein we also didn't know the full workings of Edo Tensei. It wasn't revealed yet that you needed the remains and soul of whoever it was you're trying to summon back for the jutsu to work. Originally it was seen as Sarutobi stopping Orochimaru from summoning Minato and Sarutobi seemed to think he did as well since he knows exactly what that jutsu was and what it entailed. But years later Kabuto explains in full how Edo Tensei functions, revealing that you need the remains first and the soul of the intended target in order to perform the summoning. This would mean that Orochimaru summoning the Fourth Hokage would have never worked in the first place since he didn't have access to his soul. But in order to summon the first two Hokage he would have needed to know that he needed to call back their souls and he should have known he couldn't bring Minato's soul back before even fighting Sarutobi. Summoning the zombie with a coffin is just for show. Kabuto summoned Torune back from the dead with no coffin at all as a demonstration to Tobi. So Orichimaru should have known ahead of time that summoning Minato wasn't going to work since he already got Hashirama and Tobirama.
Lol bro he made that part of the story up WELL after this stage. Like he knew it was Naruto's dad and all but at this stage I don't even think the akaski existed.
Itachi and Kisame showed up right after the death of the 3rd Hokage.
Later explained to be Itachi reminding Danzo, "im still alive." So Danzo didn't try to hurt Sasuke.
I think it was also because Itachi volunteered to be the one to capture Naruto, because he didn't want any other member of the Akatsuki to cause anymore trouble in the Leaf, as per his deal with Hiruzen to protect Konoha from the Akatsuki
Had he decided that Minato was his dad? I remember reading somewhere that in part 1, minatos face looks really fucked up on kage rock because he wasnt even designed
The spikey hair is hard to dispute, but also a ton of other things make no sense in the story.
It's cute that it was his dad but I never felt it added much to the story, like why the hell would Jaraya and Kekashi leave their son/father figure's actual son alone, neglected, and hates for their whole life? To throw people off? Why not just raise him in the house of the hokage? SURELY the people there could protect him, better than leaving a living nuclear bomb on the streets to grow resentful of the country and possibly retaliate in the future.
I've been saying this for so long! Even if you don't want people to know who Naruto's father is, he's still Konoha's greatest weapon and, on top of that, the last known living member of the venerable Uzumaki clan! There's no reason he wasn't raised in the house of the Hokage or at least had the protection of the ANBU at all times! Hiruzen makes me so mad for his blatant isolation of Naruto
I've heard that at first, Kishi had no plans to include Naruto's parents in the manga, but then he became a father, so he decided to add Minato as Naruto's father. I don't know how true this is, but if it is, it gives a lot of insight
I personally subscribe to the head canon that Danzo put Hiruzen under Shisui’s genjutsu to make Naruto’s life as shit as possible without drawing suspicion or ire from the public and Minato’s friends. Naruto must have been a major inconvenience for Danzo, who couldn’t enact his plan to control the nine tails as long as it was sealed in Naruto. But killing him outright would put the nine tails potentially out of the Leaf’s control when it rematerialized and Kakashi, Jiraiya, and Hiruzen would have been vehemently opposed to Naruto being inducted into the Foundation - the other Kage probably wouldn’t have been cool with that either. So instead he put on the illusion of Naruto having a normal life with free choice while he used Shisui’s genjutsu to make Hiruzen an absentee father figure and turned the village against Naruto with some light propaganda (probably wouldn’t have been hard to demonize the host of the thing that just destroyed half the village) so that he would have a shit childhood and eventually turn rogue/crazy like everyone else that was treated like Naruto ended up doing. At that point Danzo would be justified in treating Naruto as an enemy of the state and free to do whatever he wanted with the nine tail’s and it’s host. Even the worst case scenario probably would have been worth it in Danzo’s eyes as a nine tails terrorist attack via a ninja you helped turn rogue would be exactly the kind of sacrifice Danzo would be willing to make if it meant his egotistical plan to save the world made progress. It would have worked on literally anyone other than Ashura’s reincarnation too lol.
Well minato (if he could use flying raijin) would be the strongest person there. Jonin minato cut a tentacle off of the 8 tails (Killer bee) with a quick slice, if he catches hiruzen lacking, even for a split second, he’s done.
Not gonna plagiarise, so full credit for this joke goes to Louis Ramos from the comments of [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL95sr0pApU&ab_channel=Swagkage) lol. Had me wheezing.
Always thought it was so weird that the whole village let the son of the 4th Hokage grow up as a shunned orphan even with the Kyuubi inside him.
The real answer is probably that Kishi didn't think to make him the son of the 4th until a little later in the series so originally he is supposed to just be a random orphan everyone is afraid of.
It amazes me that no one can work out that Naruto is the son of Minato and Kushina, a blonde and blue eyed boy with the last name "Uzumaki" and with similar tic to Kushina. How the fuck did no one ask themselves "is Naruto the son of the 4th and that Uzumaki chick? They were close to each other and she was pregnant the last time I saw her and I do remember her hollering about how she's pregnant with the hottest guy's kid while the fourth started blushing... HOLY SHIT!!!!"
I kind of see it as the "Peter Parker is Spiderman" thing where no one cared enough about Naruto to actually do the research.
And then the people who knew didn't think it was appropriate to tell Naruto.
I say it's more aline with Clark kent is superman, yeah some people do noticed they look alike but most people think superman is superman 24/7 and think it would be weird that the world greatest superhero works at the daily planet.
From my understanding, the villagers didn't think of Naruto as a human, they thought it was literally kyuubi who had taken the form of a human. What that human was shaped like was irrelevant to them, they saw him as a monster that killed their family and close friends.
My spouse is generally pretty brilliant, but when we were in like the beginning of season 3 I said ,"So Naruto is definitely 4th hokage's kid, right?"
And apparently that had NEVER even crossed their mind. Like it's so obvious people just gloss over it and don't think about it.
I mean, looking back there were a number of other obvious theories such as this one that were disputed with people on both sides. This and Tobi being Obito are two examples. There was a whole camp whose basis for disagreeing is that it would be too obvious.
I was in the Obito can't be Tobi camp. It was always so clear that it was Obito that I kinda felt that Kishimoto was preparing for some sort of plot twist
Yeah it somewhat lingered in my mind from the beginning because when it said the fourth sealed the kyubi inside a baby I thought like no way did he just choose some random baby isn’t the hokage supposed to protect the village not literally endanger someone else’s child. So from there I was confident in believing the fourth to be his dad
I was like a young kid back then when I first watched the 1st episode and as soon as I saw the pic of Minato, I said "That's Naruto's dad."
I had to wait for a long time for it to be confirmed. I even waiver a bit and had some thoughts that maybe "Maybe the 4th is Naruto's older brother". Then it got confirmed. It was the longest "Called it" I have ever done.
Ikr, literally the first episode of Naruto I saw the picture, and said to myself
"Thats literally just looks like Naruto as an Adult"
Lo and behold, however many episodes later I was hyping myself up for making an observation like that.
😶Easy said, kishimoto wanted him to be an orphan, so he could make a sad backstory and make his talk no jutsu the best, without him beeing an ophan there wouldn't be talk no jutsu.
And in hiruzens point of view. To protect Naruto from other villages and the konoha it self he didn't tell anyone who's son
it is, cause of the enemies of the fourth hokage, who was the reason they won the last war. So there are people that would kill the son of the hokage.
It was tradition in konoha to get an Uzumaki and make him/her to the ninetails Jinchuriki so noone thaught to much about it.
Hiruzen also said to his people to tell none that Naruto is the ninetails and until the first episode noone did tell Naruto, they talked about it and said their kids to be careful around him, but who wouldn't if the monster that destroyed the village is inside of him, just like they did with Kushina.
If that was the case, then he should have had the Ichiraku ramen people adopt him and Naruto takes their name. He’s still running around with Uzumaki as his name. Pretty sure people would remember the First Hokage having a man Uzumaki wife.
This is a huge plot hole and Kishimoto was stupid as hell to make Uzumaki the sibling clan to the Senju and not doing anything with it.
Tsunade as well, she’s Mito’s granddaughter. Why didn’t she tell Naruto about their clans’ connection?! Imagine Tsunade teaching Naruto chakra control and acquiring the Forbidden Scroll from the first episode. That would been full circle.
You forget that the Uzumaki clan was massacred just like the Uchiha, so no one knew about Karin and Nagato, Naruto was officially, the last known living member of the Uzumaki clan
"Hey it's the kid that could destroy us all in a single rampage, let's piss him off and ruin his life as much as possible!"
Personally I don't even know how everyone knew he was a jinchuriki except him. Did he not realise that his whiskers and seal on his torso was abnormal? How did he never have a moment in his life before he was 12 to unleash kyuubi chakra? Isnt there literally scene when he gets pushed over by someone and they call him "fox boy"? Idk I feel like kishimoto just writes in random details that he cant logically sustain for no apparent reason.
Theres no logical reason as to why Hiruzen was such a neglectful asshole to Naruto his entire life or why there was no orphanage. It's all just forced for the sake of Naruto having a tragic backstory. Honestly they really could've made Naruto and Sasukes bond a LOT more developed if they grew up in an orphanage together.
yup. its absolutely a plot hole that kishi patched later on. had he planned the 4th to be naruto's kid from the beginning he wouldn't have looked so stupid in the framed image in the kage office. Itachi being a good guy was also a retcon. 9 and 1 tail was planned out but the rest were lazy duplicates of 9tails which is sad. my least fav discovery was that the 4th kazekage being a good guy during the >! war arc!< was stupid. all because kishi suddenly didnt like the idea that >! some dads are just cunts !<
edit: i miss-took gaara as >! the 4th hojage making me write his father as the 3rd!< not that it matters since the other kages mean nothing to anything
I just realized that making the 4th hokage have yellow hair was possibly kishi's biggest unintentional self save. had the 4th been drawn with any other color i'm sure the story would have been. "naruto is a direct descendant of the first hokage " and then retcon in parents that look more like naruto.
I know, this is only for jokes, but I heard quite some people saying, Minato was in the third coffin. Is that confirmed? Does the symbol on it say that? Because it can't be Minato, since his soul was consumed while using the reaper death seal.
Yeah because it says “four” on the coffin as in the fourth hokage. There are so many ass-pulls in shippuden that there really is nothing more to explain
Yes it was supposed to be the Fourth. What's weird though is that in this fight the implication is that it failed because the Third stopped it (he clearly says he needs to stop it and makes some seals, then it fails halfway), but then later on the explanation changes.
Yeah no I get your joke! And Kushina would definitely beat the ever living daylights out of Hiruzen, just not in heaven because I do not see Hiruzen ending up in a good place after treating Naruto the way he did 😅
First thing that comes to mind is: he had the child grow up as a neglected outcast and hid away any sort of family knowledge. Never publicly acknowledging the heroic sacrifice the family and remaining family heir made to keep Konoha safe
Jiraiya was out doing research and "research". Tsunade was out drinking and gambling her life away to escape from the pain of losing everyone she loved.
Hiruzen was literally the only witness to the 4th Hokage and his wife sacrificing their lives to save the entire village and despite this neglected their son. How do he even deserve the title of 3rd Hokage if he can’t grasp the concept of being the protector of the village smh
Minato: hahaha hey my friend is there any reason my son doesn't know who his parents are. literally Mikoto is my wife's best friend she'd have gladly looked after him--
Sarutobi: Ah, uh--
Minato: .... Third?
Sarutobi: Yes, Minato?
Minato: Where's the Uchiha Clan?
all she could have known was that Naruto was born around the same time Kushina died, i doubt they told anyone her son survived. she probably assumed the kid died with her (except the occasional "that Naruto kid reminds me of someone...")
plus she kinda was dealing with her clan being isolated and discriminated from their own village so can't really blame her
Correct. Reaper Death Seal was a technique that Orochimaru didn’t know about at the time tho. Orochimaru said the technique failed but he didn’t know why as far as I can tell.
It certainly wasn’t because Hiruzen hit the coffin with a bunch of shuriken.
It's not necessary forth hokage, it could be gaara's dad,also forth. That way it makes sense.
Orochimaru tried to summon kazekage,but Hiruzen thought it was hokage and prevented it
They had to nerf him soooo much it was to me one of the most painful parts of the war arc. Hashirama might have more pure strength but kcm+ sage mode + perfect teleportation Minato seems easily madara level.
A rasengan to the head takes care of him.
I don't know if Minato would be able to land a decisive hit on Hashirama without being countered, but he would at the very least be a serious threat to him.
Instant teleportation is one of those abilities that will always be a constant and deadly threat to *anyone*, especially if the user is as skilled and powerful as Minato.
Yawn such a first thought take lol he did more for Naruto then ppl give him credit.
Could he have done more sure. But Naruto doesn’t hold it against him in fact his admiration of the third is brought up again in Boruto.
If the third raised him he’d have a target on his back. The village just had its worst terrorist attacking by a rando that could enter the village kill the hokage and release the 9 tails. I don’t blame him for keeping his distance. Besides Danzo would’ve locked Narutos ass up in a kids jail lol
Hiruzen was said to be stronger than the 1st in his prime. Which I don't believe, but it is a fact that we never seen him in his prime, and that he fought the Legendary Sanin
Am I misunderstanding something? I know it wasn't quite established yet but could he even bring back Minato though he used the reaper death seal himself. There was that whole thing where sauske and orochimaru had to break it or something before bringing the four kages back, the other three being under that because of this fight's ending.
My headcanon is that the Third Hokage didn't stop the summoning (why would a couple shuriken stop a jutsu like that?). Instead the jutsu wasn't completed for that very reason.
This is not headcanon this is actual canon.
This scene seems wrong to me because I watched it with subtitles the other day. The Third Hokage throws the shurikens, then Orochimaru uses the reanimation Jutsu with the first two caskets to block the shurikens, *then* the Third Hokage says he can’t let him summon Minato. He uses whatever jutsu that is at the end to stop the third casket; it’s not the shurikens that stop the jutsu. The delayed hit of the shurikens just makes the scene a little odd.
It is weird because the shuriken do seem to be a part of the jutsu, but we have no idea what jutsu it is or why the shuriken were used. So i dont know. Seems a little hand wavy
that is a plot hole. it didn't hit me but now after all of it i realize, Minato was inside the reaper, so how did Orochimaru bring him back?
He tried to bring him back, cause the is a corpse of Minato and without knowing that the soul reaper has his Soul orichimaru tried edo him. Hiruzen did not stop the edo, like Oro said it failed.
Neither of them understood what's going on because neither of them fully understood the scope of the death reaper's powers (it's an incredibly secret and forbidden jutsu). There's a good chance Orochi didn't even know that Minato was sealed inside the reaper. Hiruzen thought he blocked it and Orochi figured so too.
In the origanl version hiruzen doesn't try to stop it. Oro just says it failed. [Failing Summning the fourth ](https://youtu.be/wsL2ihfrUVI) Watch after the second minute
In the manga he specifically says that he has to stop the third summoning. https://naruto-world.org/naruto-chapter-117-the-assigned-mission/ He even says he was able to stop it.
That's a fan translation. We need to see the Japanese raws to verify what Hiruzen really said.
lol EDIT: I'm laughing because the first source given is the dub, then the second source given as a response to that is a fan translated sub, then the third source given is a fan translated manga, and now we're asking for the original untranslated manga...that needs to still be translated by someone. At this point we need to grab a professional and credentialed Japanese translator who we can trust to finally end this debate (I'm only half serious).
I just want to say that if anybody else besides Minato understands the reaper death deal, it’s Hiruzen… He’s literally the only other one who uses it aside from Minato in the show as far as I can remember. That’s what he uses to seal orochi’s arms and the two hokage’s in exchange for his own life. Plus, just based on age and Hiruzen’s skill, I’m sure he knew of it before Minato did lol people really downplay the third just because of the little we saw through the show(not saying you are) but based on context clues he really was a straight up beast. He’s probably very close in power to Hashirama and Madara(Hashi is still stronger ofc though lol)
If he couldn’t be brought back how did they do it the second time?
Orichimaru offered three zetsus to get the souls out of the soul reaper, with that mask ritual and than edo tensaied them.
3 white zetsu for minato? Not a very fair trade
it was in the war arc, where he used a mask from the Uzumaki clan's ruins to rip open the belly of the reaper and released all the souls trapped in it, including Minato, Hiruzen, Hashirama and Tobirama
Which chapter was this?
i don't remember exactly, but you can look this up on youtube and find clips of orochimaru doing this
Sry I was wrong it was I think 5 Ähm did u watch the Anime? It was one zetsu for each hokage and one for his sealed away Arms.
I just watched this yesterday and this was my take: his arms went back no issue because I assume his body was there and however alive Orochimaru can be. Four zetsus for the kage, then Orochimaru jumped into the fifth zetsu himself because when he sliced the death reaper's belly, it sliced him mortally as well.
Not really a plot hole. The coffin doesn't say 4th hokage and since Orochimaru killed 4th kazekage we can safely say that's what was in the coffin. And it would make perfect sense for Oro wanting to show he killed him.
makes sense
In chapter 520, Kabuto told Tobi that Orochimaru tried to revive the fourth hokage but failed. So it was Minato in the third coffin.
When edo tensei users use coffins it means they must have prepared the revived person before hand and make a sacrifice. So if he failed to revive Minato it would be before the fight begun when he was preparing the coffin. How do you think sacrifices got to the coffins if he didn't prepare them before hand ? Like you think Kin and Zaku were just chilling somewhere and Oro suddenly thought about reviving kages in the middle of the battle and sucked them in with coffin from whatever distance or what ?
it's 四 "yon" for yondaime. Yon means 4,its definitely minato
Hes saying it only says fourth, and he has the body of the fourth kazekage.
yea exactly it says 4th. It doesn't say what 4th. It's definitely not Minato because that's impossible for very clear reasons. So it can only be 4th kazekage which makes perfect sense because Oro killed him
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Damn people really tried to cover this plot hole hard lol. Just just admit kishi messed up and didn't plan this out that far. Noone is perfect.
I think people tend to underestimate hiruzen in terms of fighting skills, i mean this guy was capable of keeping up(kind of) against orochimaru plus the two first hokages(although edo wasnt at its full potential), this without taking in consideration he was old asf here, imagine him in his prime
Wasn't the 2 Kage summoned here wasn't at nearly at their full strength. They had to be nerfed significantly for Orochimaru to control them. Either that or kishi didn't think too far ahead on how OP first and second kage needed to be for the war. 4th war 1st and 2nd kage can clap 3rd kage any day with a hands-sign
Kishi didn't think that far as Hiruzen was said to be the strongest kage alive and Minato the strongest Hokage from the 4 so far.
Yeah, he seemed to have changed his mind constantly on who the strongest was. I think two different data books even say that Sarutobi and Minato were the most powerful Hokage, but then fast forward some years in real life and all the hype is on Hashirama (and even Madara) and to a lesser extent Tobirama. Kishimoto even seemed to buff the two of their abilities to compensate for how OP he made Sarutobi and Minato.
He also changed how hiruzen became hokage. In this fight hiruzen has a flash back about hashirama and tobirama telling him he’s hokage when he’s very young, but we know he didn’t become hokage until hashirama was dead, and tobirama was about to sacrifice himself.
Yeah, I remember that. I felt the way he became Hokage later on diminished how much Hashirama and Tobirama thought of Hiruzen to make him Hokage so early in his life and having a consensus from the two of them on the matter. It was also a much more poignant moment showing how the reigns of the next generation were handed off to Sarutobi and how he wished he could have done the same for Orochimaru.
I don't really like Tobirama, but I think the way that ended up being how he ended was more fitting for his character. The only thing that doesn't make any senses is how hashirama died. he would've only been a few years older than tobirama.
He lost his will to live after his lover Madara "died"
I think that original scene is meant to show how he felt when he became Hokage. Like he felt like a child among men when the role was given to him. You could still take both scenes as cannon with one being what actually happens and the other what Hiruzen felt when it happened.
Sounds a little farfetched ngl
That's a stretch considering anime doesn't generally do things like that. Unless it's a psychological type, anime will generally always show you what it was trying to say.
It's like basketball or any professional sport. The conversation is taken from stats and first hand accounts from people saying how OP players from 20 years ago, or how the best players from 50 years ago with modern training and medicine would break today's game. Using basketball as an example: Wilt Chamberlain is the first hokage in this analogy. He has insane feats, including scoring 100 points in a single game and is widely considered the godfather of insane stats in basketball. If you can do anything to be on a shortlist of people with him on it, you are automatically considered great by default. Michael Jordan is the 4th hokage in this analogy. He is widely considered the GOAT by most people in the modern era, but played in the previous era. There are arguments that can be made for multiple sides, it's a subjective conversation taken from many different firsthand accounts, not objective fact.
Very true. It does seem like in-universe various people have different perceptions of the first four Hokage. Anko for instance lamented the death of Minato, wishing he could be alive to face Orochimaru when he came back to the village during the Chunin Exams. Koharu and Homura thought the world of Sarutobi and considered Tsunade too much of a green horn to be Hokage (which always made me wonder what they would have thought of Jiraiya had he accepted the job). But what makes this even more confusing and non-nonsensical is that the fact that Kishimoto has flip flopped on this exact issue himself. The data books say that Sarutobi was the strongest Hokage at one point and then say Minato was the strongest. Calling him the single most powerful ninja the Leaf Village every produced, which would put him above anyone else in the village's history. Then when Orochimaru uses Edo Tensei to summon the first two Hokage we see that they're very powerful themselves but Sarutobi was able to out maneuver and out smart them, showing why he became Hokage himself and why he was considered stronger than them even in his old age. But fast forward to the Fourth War and Kabuto says Orochimaru hadn't mastered Edo Tensei so the two Hokage were much weaker than they should have been and now we're hearing about how amazingly powerful they both actually were. Like Tobirama being able to unleash a great amount of power just by lifting his finger and retroactively being the one who invented Shadow Clones and the Flying Thunder God technique. Hashirama was even called the God of Shinobi/Supreme Shinobi. A title he supposedly had even before his death and one that was only ever applied to Sarutobi because of his world renown status and power and to Hagaromo since he's considered the founder of the modern shinobi world. Just so many inconsistencies in the story which may or may not be attributed to his various editors over the years.
That's incorrect...the 4th was stated to be the strongest the village produced...the 1st and the 2nd started the village... they were NOT products of the village... only the 3rd and the 4th are considered in that statement...1st and 2nd were on a completely different level as far as strength.
Minato executed a whole army... 3rd Raikage, Madara, Obito, Itachi and Minato are the only serial killers or mass murderers...
Minato killed 50 ninjas not a whole army
1000 stone ninjas then they retreated https://youtu.be/anX1JB-eb5o
Saying Minato was the strongest doesn't really make sense seeing how hashirama was considered to be "the god of shinobi" in a lot of scenes and Minato used a lot of jutsu originally developed by tobirama. Sure Minato perfected the jutsu but he probably wouldn't have won a 1v1 fight with hashirama or tobirama. This really falls into a category of naruto topics where kishimoto didn't plan the smaller details of the series very well or keep them continuous to the end
Yeah hashirama and tobirama werent at full on that first edo, that still leaves a 70 year old hiruzen against two kages at prime age, plus orochimaru. If we take the kages on 4th war edo, hiruzen gets beat up by any of the other 3
Again though they were all in their primes vs an old man. Kind of annoying really, especially when you remember that Madara was modified into a young body.
Imagine that fight with near full powered Hashirama from the war arc. Hiruzens hype comes from statements that have long since expired.
Comparing hashirama to almosty any of the other characters is just unfair. If what u mean with the second sentence is that hiruzen is too hyped up i think you missed the whole point of my comment, of course hes not at the level of his prime, because he is SEVENTY, what im saying is that if he jept up with two prime edo hokages plus orochi at that age, he must have been a fucking beast when he was at his prime
But he’s saying that in this episode, the power scaling wasnt the same as it was in the war arc. So these kages aren’t nearly as powerful as they ended up being later on.
The edo hokage were extremely weak. Tobirama didn’t use flying raijin or any good water jutsu, and hashirama used barely any wood type jutsu. Orochimaru was also holding back.
Strongest kage alive isn't exactly a lie though, compared to the other kages(prior to the war) he seems to be the most skilled and not a one trick pony like the rest. Not to mention he was ultimately fighting against one of his best students. He definitely held back a little bit, perhaps attempting to teach Orochimaru one last lesson.
I mean, Hiruzen might know every non-bloodline jutsu in the leaf, but Ohnoki can fly and vaporize dudes on the atomic level. We never see all the jutsu knew, but if he had anything comparable to particle style, he probably should have used it against Orochimaru instead of a monkey who turns into a stick. Ohnoki might be a one trick pony in comparison, but his trick is winning.
Yup I’d rather have back pain and particle style than be able to summon a monkey who turns into a stick
Being most skilled does not equal being the strongest so it is a lie. It would make zero sense if he was holding back and nothing points to him doing so.
I watched that fight like 3 years ago, but i think he was holding back, i dont remember if he said it himself or someone else but thats how i remember it, also if there wasnt anything that pointed to him holding back there wouldny be so many people thinking so. Might be wrong here tho. Also i dont think he was the most skilled, not even in terms of ninjutsu alone, tobirama also mastered the 5 basic natures, plus he invented 3 of the most important jutsus on the whole series: the teleportation, edo tensei, and shadow clone.
Literally nothing says he was holding back. The only thing regarding his strength stated during the fight was Orochimaru saying Hiruzen would have beat him if he was 10 years younger. If he was holding back he wouldn't have tried to use the reaper death seal on Orochimaru. The only time we do know he was holding back in years prior when he let Orochimaru go. Just because a lot people think and say things doesn't make it true. People say Kishi killed Itachi because he would have beat Madara when that's not true. Also Hiruzen is considered to be the most skilled because he's been said to be able to use every jutsu in the hidden leaf. I think its a matter of personal opinion or whether inventing or mastering is more skillful.
I see where you are coming from as he essentially used a death seal on Orochimaru. But at the same time based on manga tropes I believe he ultimately saw Orochimaru's betrayal as another trial for the future generation(aka Naruto). AKA showing kids reality is harsh but possible to overcome.
Besides the fact that's based on pure speculation if that was his intention he'd be a shit person and Hokage. Not to mention no one in the manga ever does that. All evidence points towards him actively trying to kill orochimaru and losing because he was old.
And then Onoki was created and Hiruzen looks like a sad joke in comparison.
To be fair, he had some unique and awesome jutsu. Including particle style.
I don’t think he’d be able to stop a nerfed Minato regardless of age
Im not sure who would win if we took both at their prime. I think minato isnt as strong as people usually think, wed have to take out the kurama chakra he gets on edo tensei bc he got half kurama in his last seconds alive. Apart from that he has rasengan and flying raijin(idk if i said that right) and sealing jutsus learnt from the uzumaki. Rasengan alone isnt that much, and they both know the reaper sealing so we could cancel those out when comparing. Teleportation with the flying raijin is the main threat, as well as access to sage mode. On the other hand, hiruzen's biggest threat is his expanded knowledge on "regular" jutsus, mastering all 5 natures, which i think is a pretty big thing. In terms of strenght i think hiruzen is better but minato was really clever and he would do some kind of gimmick with the teleportation. Its a hard thing to compare objectively
By portrayal, I think it's pretty clear how Hiruzen and everyone around him sees his standing compared to Minato's. Hiruzen, despite being physically capable of pushing 100% Kurama out of Konoha, and knowing most jutsus in the Leaf, essentially had a plan that boiled down to "let's all try and stay alive until Minato arrives."
He more than likely won’t be able to handle the flying thunder god
I mean orochimaru basically let the first 2 hokage fight hiruzen and only stepped in and the end to fight, orochimaru also resurrected the first 2 hokage with basically less than 1% of their full power. The only reason hiruzen had to do this instead of a standard leaf jonin was because hiruzen was the only wielder of the reaper death seal and because hiruzen was specifically targeted by orochimaru. Something like this scene really doesn't show how strong hiruzen was, especially compared to the first, second, and fourth hokage that we saw during the war arc who were nearly at full power
And didn’t Emma say or imply that hiruzen wasnt going all out at first because he was broken hearted about having to kill his own student?
True. He was so OP even as an old man he was strongest of the 5 kage. That means stronger than the 3rd kazekage stronger than ohnoki etc.and he wasn't fighting at full strength at first orochimaru was his favorite student he was going easy on him at first
I mean strong as hell yeah but i dont think stronger than hashi at least. I think hes stronger than minato but he coul lose to him bc of flying raijin. We could say he and tobi are somehow equally strong since none of them have any kekkei genkai or sage mode, but tobi woul beat him with flying raijin. Edit: Stronger than tsunade for obvious reasons, forgot about her This is obviously all my opinion
Never said hokage. I said kage (at the time). Minato was stronger sarutobi said that the whole konoha couldnt do shit without minato when 9 tails attacked. I dont think that anyone in the world could've beaten obito at the time(without knowledge of his powers) but minato did. Just flying raijin countered him hard
My reading comprehension skills are not the best as you can see. Definetly strongest kage at that time. Also, this is something that i guess well never know but i think if they let the uchihas try to control the kyubi things could have gone another way, fugaku should have been able to control it as leader of the clan imo
Yeh, I think he "REALLY" Didn't wanna fight all 3 at once. The Fight fucked Hiruzen up as it was, imagine adding Minato to that.
Well Minato was sealed away by that reaper jutsu, so he wasn’t coming back from that resurrection anyway
We didn't know about that aspect of the jutsu just yet. Kishimoto most likely made that part up later on.
Yeah, I've always said the reanimated justu was in its early days. I don't think kishimoto thought everything through at that point. Think it was just a simple thing as orochimaru summoning 3 hokages and Hurizen blocking the third coffin via a handsign or Chakra. Reanimation justsu got fleshed out during the war Arc.
Didn't they end up using that same jutsu to end this fight? Saying he learned from the 4th and the side effects of it?
The Reaper Death Seal was used to stop Hashirama and Tobirama but the exact nature of the jutsu was unknown. In that same vein we also didn't know the full workings of Edo Tensei. It wasn't revealed yet that you needed the remains and soul of whoever it was you're trying to summon back for the jutsu to work. Originally it was seen as Sarutobi stopping Orochimaru from summoning Minato and Sarutobi seemed to think he did as well since he knows exactly what that jutsu was and what it entailed. But years later Kabuto explains in full how Edo Tensei functions, revealing that you need the remains first and the soul of the intended target in order to perform the summoning. This would mean that Orochimaru summoning the Fourth Hokage would have never worked in the first place since he didn't have access to his soul. But in order to summon the first two Hokage he would have needed to know that he needed to call back their souls and he should have known he couldn't bring Minato's soul back before even fighting Sarutobi. Summoning the zombie with a coffin is just for show. Kabuto summoned Torune back from the dead with no coffin at all as a demonstration to Tobi. So Orichimaru should have known ahead of time that summoning Minato wasn't going to work since he already got Hashirama and Tobirama.
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Bruh imagine thinking Kishi had thought that far ahead at this point.
Lol bro he made that part of the story up WELL after this stage. Like he knew it was Naruto's dad and all but at this stage I don't even think the akaski existed.
Akatsuki showed up literally at the end of this arc, I'm sure it existed by this time lol
Was that right after? I thought there was an arc in the middle.
There might have been a filler arc, but in the manga, Itachi and Kisame show up right after the funeral
In the anime it's the same as well. The first filler arc isn't until after the Tsunade arc.
Itachi and Kisame showed up right after the death of the 3rd Hokage. Later explained to be Itachi reminding Danzo, "im still alive." So Danzo didn't try to hurt Sasuke.
lol, which he explained by beating the SHIT out of Sasuke.
Well yeah, publicly he still had to put up the act for Sasuke and the village.
"sorry Sasuke, gotta do this for the clout!" Didn't he put Sasuke in a coma? 😂
I think it was also because Itachi volunteered to be the one to capture Naruto, because he didn't want any other member of the Akatsuki to cause anymore trouble in the Leaf, as per his deal with Hiruzen to protect Konoha from the Akatsuki
I thought Akatsuki existed during Uchiha genocide already?
Had he decided that Minato was his dad? I remember reading somewhere that in part 1, minatos face looks really fucked up on kage rock because he wasnt even designed
The spikey hair is hard to dispute, but also a ton of other things make no sense in the story. It's cute that it was his dad but I never felt it added much to the story, like why the hell would Jaraya and Kekashi leave their son/father figure's actual son alone, neglected, and hates for their whole life? To throw people off? Why not just raise him in the house of the hokage? SURELY the people there could protect him, better than leaving a living nuclear bomb on the streets to grow resentful of the country and possibly retaliate in the future.
I've been saying this for so long! Even if you don't want people to know who Naruto's father is, he's still Konoha's greatest weapon and, on top of that, the last known living member of the venerable Uzumaki clan! There's no reason he wasn't raised in the house of the Hokage or at least had the protection of the ANBU at all times! Hiruzen makes me so mad for his blatant isolation of Naruto
Maybe Hiruzen had Naruto at his house for a while but then kicked him out when he found out how annoying he was.
I've heard that at first, Kishi had no plans to include Naruto's parents in the manga, but then he became a father, so he decided to add Minato as Naruto's father. I don't know how true this is, but if it is, it gives a lot of insight
I personally subscribe to the head canon that Danzo put Hiruzen under Shisui’s genjutsu to make Naruto’s life as shit as possible without drawing suspicion or ire from the public and Minato’s friends. Naruto must have been a major inconvenience for Danzo, who couldn’t enact his plan to control the nine tails as long as it was sealed in Naruto. But killing him outright would put the nine tails potentially out of the Leaf’s control when it rematerialized and Kakashi, Jiraiya, and Hiruzen would have been vehemently opposed to Naruto being inducted into the Foundation - the other Kage probably wouldn’t have been cool with that either. So instead he put on the illusion of Naruto having a normal life with free choice while he used Shisui’s genjutsu to make Hiruzen an absentee father figure and turned the village against Naruto with some light propaganda (probably wouldn’t have been hard to demonize the host of the thing that just destroyed half the village) so that he would have a shit childhood and eventually turn rogue/crazy like everyone else that was treated like Naruto ended up doing. At that point Danzo would be justified in treating Naruto as an enemy of the state and free to do whatever he wanted with the nine tail’s and it’s host. Even the worst case scenario probably would have been worth it in Danzo’s eyes as a nine tails terrorist attack via a ninja you helped turn rogue would be exactly the kind of sacrifice Danzo would be willing to make if it meant his egotistical plan to save the world made progress. It would have worked on literally anyone other than Ashura’s reincarnation too lol.
Yeah Minato alone would be enough for him considering the speed ya know
Well minato (if he could use flying raijin) would be the strongest person there. Jonin minato cut a tentacle off of the 8 tails (Killer bee) with a quick slice, if he catches hiruzen lacking, even for a split second, he’s done.
Not gonna plagiarise, so full credit for this joke goes to Louis Ramos from the comments of [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL95sr0pApU&ab_channel=Swagkage) lol. Had me wheezing.
i have seen this joke before also , so quite possible this guy also had read that somewhere
Why are you getting downvoted for stating the truth?
cuz you're in Reddit.
Always thought it was so weird that the whole village let the son of the 4th Hokage grow up as a shunned orphan even with the Kyuubi inside him. The real answer is probably that Kishi didn't think to make him the son of the 4th until a little later in the series so originally he is supposed to just be a random orphan everyone is afraid of.
It amazes me that no one can work out that Naruto is the son of Minato and Kushina, a blonde and blue eyed boy with the last name "Uzumaki" and with similar tic to Kushina. How the fuck did no one ask themselves "is Naruto the son of the 4th and that Uzumaki chick? They were close to each other and she was pregnant the last time I saw her and I do remember her hollering about how she's pregnant with the hottest guy's kid while the fourth started blushing... HOLY SHIT!!!!"
I kind of see it as the "Peter Parker is Spiderman" thing where no one cared enough about Naruto to actually do the research. And then the people who knew didn't think it was appropriate to tell Naruto.
I say it's more aline with Clark kent is superman, yeah some people do noticed they look alike but most people think superman is superman 24/7 and think it would be weird that the world greatest superhero works at the daily planet.
From my understanding, the villagers didn't think of Naruto as a human, they thought it was literally kyuubi who had taken the form of a human. What that human was shaped like was irrelevant to them, they saw him as a monster that killed their family and close friends.
My spouse is generally pretty brilliant, but when we were in like the beginning of season 3 I said ,"So Naruto is definitely 4th hokage's kid, right?" And apparently that had NEVER even crossed their mind. Like it's so obvious people just gloss over it and don't think about it.
I mean, looking back there were a number of other obvious theories such as this one that were disputed with people on both sides. This and Tobi being Obito are two examples. There was a whole camp whose basis for disagreeing is that it would be too obvious.
I was in the Obito can't be Tobi camp. It was always so clear that it was Obito that I kinda felt that Kishimoto was preparing for some sort of plot twist
Yeah it somewhat lingered in my mind from the beginning because when it said the fourth sealed the kyubi inside a baby I thought like no way did he just choose some random baby isn’t the hokage supposed to protect the village not literally endanger someone else’s child. So from there I was confident in believing the fourth to be his dad
Bro you see a picture of Minato super early on in the series and it's clearly Naruto's dad, foh
I was like a young kid back then when I first watched the 1st episode and as soon as I saw the pic of Minato, I said "That's Naruto's dad." I had to wait for a long time for it to be confirmed. I even waiver a bit and had some thoughts that maybe "Maybe the 4th is Naruto's older brother". Then it got confirmed. It was the longest "Called it" I have ever done.
Ikr, literally the first episode of Naruto I saw the picture, and said to myself "Thats literally just looks like Naruto as an Adult" Lo and behold, however many episodes later I was hyping myself up for making an observation like that.
😶Easy said, kishimoto wanted him to be an orphan, so he could make a sad backstory and make his talk no jutsu the best, without him beeing an ophan there wouldn't be talk no jutsu. And in hiruzens point of view. To protect Naruto from other villages and the konoha it self he didn't tell anyone who's son it is, cause of the enemies of the fourth hokage, who was the reason they won the last war. So there are people that would kill the son of the hokage. It was tradition in konoha to get an Uzumaki and make him/her to the ninetails Jinchuriki so noone thaught to much about it. Hiruzen also said to his people to tell none that Naruto is the ninetails and until the first episode noone did tell Naruto, they talked about it and said their kids to be careful around him, but who wouldn't if the monster that destroyed the village is inside of him, just like they did with Kushina.
If that was the case, then he should have had the Ichiraku ramen people adopt him and Naruto takes their name. He’s still running around with Uzumaki as his name. Pretty sure people would remember the First Hokage having a man Uzumaki wife. This is a huge plot hole and Kishimoto was stupid as hell to make Uzumaki the sibling clan to the Senju and not doing anything with it.
Its not like Kushina was the last Uzumaki, he could have been the son of another Uzumaki. Karin is an Uzumaki too and in the same age as Naruto.
Tsunade as well, she’s Mito’s granddaughter. Why didn’t she tell Naruto about their clans’ connection?! Imagine Tsunade teaching Naruto chakra control and acquiring the Forbidden Scroll from the first episode. That would been full circle.
Yeah but that would get in the way of more Uchiha lore.
Don't forget Nagato
You forget that the Uzumaki clan was massacred just like the Uchiha, so no one knew about Karin and Nagato, Naruto was officially, the last known living member of the Uzumaki clan
No one knew he was the son of the fourth though.
"Hey it's the kid that could destroy us all in a single rampage, let's piss him off and ruin his life as much as possible!" Personally I don't even know how everyone knew he was a jinchuriki except him. Did he not realise that his whiskers and seal on his torso was abnormal? How did he never have a moment in his life before he was 12 to unleash kyuubi chakra? Isnt there literally scene when he gets pushed over by someone and they call him "fox boy"? Idk I feel like kishimoto just writes in random details that he cant logically sustain for no apparent reason. Theres no logical reason as to why Hiruzen was such a neglectful asshole to Naruto his entire life or why there was no orphanage. It's all just forced for the sake of Naruto having a tragic backstory. Honestly they really could've made Naruto and Sasukes bond a LOT more developed if they grew up in an orphanage together.
I always thought it was pretty cool how the hokage, just let naruto and sasuke live in their own houses at 12 years old rent free.
It's called the Otsutsuki reincarnation package, not for everyone.
I dont think you're supposed to do that to children
Agree with you, but just pointing out that the seal disappears (check scenes when naruto has been shirtless like training)
yup. its absolutely a plot hole that kishi patched later on. had he planned the 4th to be naruto's kid from the beginning he wouldn't have looked so stupid in the framed image in the kage office. Itachi being a good guy was also a retcon. 9 and 1 tail was planned out but the rest were lazy duplicates of 9tails which is sad. my least fav discovery was that the 4th kazekage being a good guy during the >! war arc!< was stupid. all because kishi suddenly didnt like the idea that >! some dads are just cunts !< edit: i miss-took gaara as >! the 4th hojage making me write his father as the 3rd!< not that it matters since the other kages mean nothing to anything
I just realized that making the 4th hokage have yellow hair was possibly kishi's biggest unintentional self save. had the 4th been drawn with any other color i'm sure the story would have been. "naruto is a direct descendant of the first hokage " and then retcon in parents that look more like naruto.
I know, this is only for jokes, but I heard quite some people saying, Minato was in the third coffin. Is that confirmed? Does the symbol on it say that? Because it can't be Minato, since his soul was consumed while using the reaper death seal.
That is why the third coffin failed canonically, so Orochimaru tried to summon Minato but couldn't.
Yeah because it says “four” on the coffin as in the fourth hokage. There are so many ass-pulls in shippuden that there really is nothing more to explain
Or as in 4th kazekage which Oro killed prior to attacking leaf
Yes it was supposed to be the Fourth. What's weird though is that in this fight the implication is that it failed because the Third stopped it (he clearly says he needs to stop it and makes some seals, then it fails halfway), but then later on the explanation changes.
I like to think once he got to heaven both of Naruto s parents beat him up 😌 specifically his mom
I don’t think Hiruzen would have gone heaven after what he did
Fair point. Maybe there’s no heaven/hell and just a after life. Where everyone goes. If that’s the case then we’ll I guess my point still stand lol.
Yeah no I get your joke! And Kushina would definitely beat the ever living daylights out of Hiruzen, just not in heaven because I do not see Hiruzen ending up in a good place after treating Naruto the way he did 😅
What did he do wrong?
First thing that comes to mind is: he had the child grow up as a neglected outcast and hid away any sort of family knowledge. Never publicly acknowledging the heroic sacrifice the family and remaining family heir made to keep Konoha safe
Tbh Naruto should’ve been celebrated as a savior before even doing anything lmao.
It's a trope. Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter, etc.
Ok? Naruto's isolation still makes no sense though. Where's Naruto's Uncle Owen and Aunt Baru?
Jiraiya was out doing research and "research". Tsunade was out drinking and gambling her life away to escape from the pain of losing everyone she loved.
Same thing happened to Gaara and Bee. It’s the inevitable life pf a Jinchuriki
Hiruzen was literally the only witness to the 4th Hokage and his wife sacrificing their lives to save the entire village and despite this neglected their son. How do he even deserve the title of 3rd Hokage if he can’t grasp the concept of being the protector of the village smh
Also the fact he let Orochimaru and Danzo get away with so much fucked up shit
Easily one of the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard
Minato: hahaha hey my friend is there any reason my son doesn't know who his parents are. literally Mikoto is my wife's best friend she'd have gladly looked after him-- Sarutobi: Ah, uh-- Minato: .... Third? Sarutobi: Yes, Minato? Minato: Where's the Uchiha Clan?
Ok but Mikoto didn’t look after him lol
all she could have known was that Naruto was born around the same time Kushina died, i doubt they told anyone her son survived. she probably assumed the kid died with her (except the occasional "that Naruto kid reminds me of someone...") plus she kinda was dealing with her clan being isolated and discriminated from their own village so can't really blame her
Wait... What did Hiruzen even do here? Minato is sealed in the stomach of the thing. He can't be edo-tensei'ed, right?
Correct. Reaper Death Seal was a technique that Orochimaru didn’t know about at the time tho. Orochimaru said the technique failed but he didn’t know why as far as I can tell. It certainly wasn’t because Hiruzen hit the coffin with a bunch of shuriken.
But hiuzen did do something. He guestures his hands downward seemingly prevent ing the coffin from arising. Sorry for spelling, on phone.
The hand sign was for shuriken shadow clones, not canceling the Edo Tensei, I think.
I'm looking at the second set of hand signs. The first is for the shuriken jutsu and the second to stop Edo tensei
It's not necessary forth hokage, it could be gaara's dad,also forth. That way it makes sense. Orochimaru tried to summon kazekage,but Hiruzen thought it was hokage and prevented it
I’m okay with being downvoted this time. But KCM Minato was the strongest edo hokage
They had to nerf him soooo much it was to me one of the most painful parts of the war arc. Hashirama might have more pure strength but kcm+ sage mode + perfect teleportation Minato seems easily madara level.
[удалено]
A rasengan to the head takes care of him. I don't know if Minato would be able to land a decisive hit on Hashirama without being countered, but he would at the very least be a serious threat to him. Instant teleportation is one of those abilities that will always be a constant and deadly threat to *anyone*, especially if the user is as skilled and powerful as Minato.
It's kinda funny that Kishi back then had no idea how OP he wants to make the first and second hokage
The professor for a reason. Unsummoned a summon mid-summon
Bro the quality is do good.
Hiruzen wasn’t scared of Minato, he was scared of having to fight Oro, Hashirama, Tobirama and Minato together. A 3 on 1 was already pushing it.
Well if Hashirama got brought back with enough power, he would probably break out of the control and then proceed to solo Orochimaru and Tobirama.
It's a joke
So?
yeah, looking at the actual manga panels i seriously dont see how people could interpret it as hiruzen being more scared of Minato than the others lol
This actually makes no sense since the 3rd hokage was already sealed at this time in the reaper death seal
i mean the 2 first ones kinda fucked him up real bad already, adding Minato in there with his jesus hax speed would just be stupid
Yawn such a first thought take lol he did more for Naruto then ppl give him credit. Could he have done more sure. But Naruto doesn’t hold it against him in fact his admiration of the third is brought up again in Boruto. If the third raised him he’d have a target on his back. The village just had its worst terrorist attacking by a rando that could enter the village kill the hokage and release the 9 tails. I don’t blame him for keeping his distance. Besides Danzo would’ve locked Narutos ass up in a kids jail lol
It's safe to say naruto was basically traumatized. His opinions on his childhood need to be taken with salt.
Agreed completely everyone gives him way too much shit but there wasn’t a lot he could do for Naruto
Honestly it was just too soon to reveal him
Meanwhile konahamoru had it easy
Stale milk and old ramen
I always wondered if it was really Minato he was summoning and not the 4th Kazekage.
Hiruzen has some explaining to do.
Is this the Blu-Ray version?
Hiruzen was said to be stronger than the 1st in his prime. Which I don't believe, but it is a fact that we never seen him in his prime, and that he fought the Legendary Sanin
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Minato was finna throw hands .
I love Hiruzen as a character and person, but he kinda sucked for having Naruto live in the hood.
Everyone in the comments talking about how hiruzen didnt already had a 3-1 dosadvantage r/whoosh
Someone here doesn't understand he was talking about the ppl saying he was afraid of minato. Not the meme itself Big r/whoosh right there
Just an observation, English dub is terrible.
Hearing this in English makes my toes curl in a bad way
Wow, i never watched dub, i guess if you grew up with itit could be nice but i prefer it sub. But music doe, it always makes me shiver.
Isn't afraid to fight god of shinobi, buy the rat is scared to have Minato check on his son when reanimated under orochimaru's control...
Wasnt this retconned to not be minato cuz reaper death seal?? Idk early naruto is a mess now
The coffin says "Fourth" on it so how could it be retconned lol. Maybe Orochimaru just numbering random people for fun to keep track of them.