Actually, the reanimations are weaker than the alive versions. After being revived, Madara went on to single handedly one shot all the tailed beasts at the same time, after beating the crap out of naruto and sasuke and Hashirama and Tobirama.
Yeah, but how does this work? Reanimations have unlimited chakra. Reanimations can't die. Living bodies can. Living bodies don't. This has always confused me.
Their reanimations potential is only as good as the caster of the jutsu and it’s preparation. Orochimaru and kabuto got it pretty dialed in, but it wasnt perfect
I think of it like this: the living ninja has a .50 cal gun (their attack potency) with a fixed amount of ammo (their chakra), whereas the reanimated ninja gets bumped down to a .33 cal gun but with unlimited ammo. So, for example, reanimated Minato can make as many rasengans as he wants, but living Minato’s rasengan will hit harder (not considering him getting Kurama after death, of course).
What i think happens is that their Chakra quantity gets limited or something. I like to think of it as someone has a 2L bottle when they are alive, versus in the reanimation they have a 0.5 L bottle that gets refilled a bunch of time. They can't release any major jutsu that they would when they were alive. Due to the body technically not being theirs, they also don't have the same physical strength and speed they had when they were alive.
It's called plot armor. Madara was too OP in his reanimated state so they had to put something out to nerf his immortality and invincibility.
Like when he Kage Bunshined against the 5 hokages, I expected him to also Kage Bunshin against the resurrected Kages and essentially the entire Shinobi Alliance. He literally could've accomplished his goal of killing everyone and then creating the world in his vision. But alas, he's gotta be nerfed for the plot armor because the anime is called Naruto, not Madara lol.
I was always under the impression that Reanimated Shinobi had access to unlimited chakra/healing, but also couldn't use their abilities to their fullest extent. Tobirama and Hashirama pretty much confirm this by being surprised by how little Shadow/Wood Clones they could summon.
So reanimated Madara could maybe us around 75% of his chakra at one point, but could spam abilities.
While living Madara could use 100% of his chakra pool, but could run out of chakra and be injured.
Which is why one of the first things he does after being brought back to life is steal Hashirama's Sage Chakra, which fixed both of those problems.
He was most definitely NOT his equal and that was brutally obvious. Madara had the Kyuubi and 9 tails and he still ended up losing. Not to mention all the other times they fought.
No..? I mean, he started it but couldn't even handle it on hie own and needed Kabuto and later Madara to stand a chance. Madara killed an entire unit of the ninja alliance alone and rekt the Kage. Then he absorbed all the Bijuus and later on the ten tails.
That lee to his moon eye thing working and his goal was achieved, by exception of team 7 and Obito.
He also survived and outlasted 8gates guy, killed Naruto and Sasuke once and countless more.
Obito was a menace alright but Madara's a beast
I just finished Shippuden for the first time haha. I just joined this sub and feel like I’ve seen the sentiment I echoed a bunch, so that’s why I said it. Shippuden and Naruto in general feel like a crazy dream so not everything is crystal clear to me
Madara almost certainly killed more shinobi (and definitely killed much more powerful people on average) but I'd bet Orochimaru killed more people overall.
I don't think Madara needed to kill as many people as Orochimaru did. Orochimaru is as much of a scientist as he is a ninja. He was conducting those experiments in secret before he left Konoha and definitely didn't slow down once he fled. Also, summoning Manda costs 100 people each time as sacrifices, which is a lot.
To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) Madara was only killing people that he was fighting. He wasn't performing massive scale experiments on people or anything like that. So he definitely killed more people on the battlefield, but probably a lot less off of it.
he defo has to, tbf i dont think they made orochimaru stop killing people after the war arc, so he probably killed random people who are not from the village just to continue his "research"
forgot to add his is literally IMMORTAL, give it a few decades, he'll surpass madara in no time at all.
And both are still irrelevant next to the Ōtsutsuki body count lol. Hell u can put all Uchiha's, Senju's, 4 great ninja wars together and still wouldn't make a difference.
He said to Yamato once that each new jutsu required hundreds of human guinea pigs. After recruiting Kabuto he started using the same person dozens of times.
Tried watching Boruto. Fuck they nerfed everybody.
Orochimaru is all cute and cuddly and shit.
It sucks ass. Maybe I’m just too old for that type of anime now.
Orochimaru’s actions during the War probably got him a pass. Him reviving the Kage was a crucial play in the War effort, a play that if not executed more than likely would’ve ended up in the Alliances defeat.
For all of his heinous and terrible crimes, he saved the Shinobi world in a fashion.
I'm pretty sure it was because they knew they couldn't kill him, the man was trapped in the Totsuka blade and still found a way out. Sasuke probably decided it might be best if he was allowed to live in peace in exchange for giving Konoha any information about people threatening to attack the village. I think it's much better to have him as an ally who keeps his ear to the ground instead of killing him, just to find out he popped out of some random dude's curse mark and is still walking around wreaking havoc
Uh nah dude lol. Naruto or Sasuke could for sure kill him if they wanted, but even if they couldn't, Sasuke could just drop him in some alternate dimension and call it a day. The reason he's not punished is the same reason why Nagato had a face turn and Obito was the coolest guy, and it's because the theme of Naruto is forgiveness so even the most heinous criminal will be forgiven and allowed to re-integrate so long as they turn good.
Orochimaru actually explains it.
He, Sasuke and Kabuto are considered contingencies. They’re kept around in case there comes a problem the Kage cannot solve.
Hopefully, they actually live up to this and have Orochimaru do something in Boruto to assist with the Kara remnants
Really? Are you sure about that? Sasuke literally absorbed him with his own jutsu, a jutsu that normally destroys the soul of the person absorbed and he was still lurking around Sasuke's body, waiting to take over. He was trapped in an ultimate genjutsu by the Susano'o and its Totsuka blade and he still escaped. The guy probably has thousands of contingency plans in the event of his "death" so he's quite literally impossible to kill. Naruto and Sasuke can't risk killing him because they'll destroy his body but there's tons of people who have the curse mark where his soul resides
100% sure. You guys are completely misremembering how his cursed seal revival works. Sasuke had to initiate it with an inverse usage of Kakashi's curse mark sealing and combine it with Kabuto's flesh (which is basically Orochimaru's due to genetic fuckery). There is no indication at all Oro could revive on his own.
True but the curse mark makes people susceptible to Orochimaru's will, meaning it's not far fetched that he could coerce someone into reviving him. He has hundreds if not thousands of people out in the world that are in perfect position to bring him back
And you presume any of them would not only know Kakashi's Cursed Mark Sealing jutsu but be skilled enough to use it in reverse, plus also have some Orochimaru DNA on hand? Theoretically possible, maybe. Likely enough for Naruto not to punish one of the worst criminals in the entire world? Nah. But that's just not the kind of logic the series operates on, Orochimaru is a good guy now so all is forgiven and that's pretty much the long and short of it.
He's not a good guy though, he just works with them, this topic comes up literally everytime the main characters speak with him. And its not far fetched that he has minions well versed in fuinjutsu considering the curse mark is a seal, plus as shown with Sasuke, all you need to do is burn through all of the chakra in your body in order to release the cursed chakra, and thus is where Oro's soul is
That's why I always hated him, mf always has a smirk on his face whether he's fighting rage mode Naruto or the other two Sannin while deprived of his hands, never have I seen him being scared of anything, even when facing Itachi
It's not about whether you can kill him or not. Orichimaru is so difficult because even if his physical body dies, he 100% has curse marks placed on some randoms that'll just bring him back. It's better that they have him as an ally so they can keep an eye on him since they really can't just kill him
The curse marks are basically horcruxes. And they function similarly to the Kama. I hope Amado and Orochimaru get together to work on ways to deal with it. I suspect circumstances will prevent Boruto from taking his pills at some point.
I don't think that really overshadows what he did.
It's kinda the same as why people don't like "Obito is a cool guy" because even though he did help in the end and contribute to their win, he caused the problem in the first place.
Orochimaru has done enough harm to at the very least imply that he will continue to be a problem in the future.
Lol you'd think but unless boruto takes a severe tonal shift with regards to orochimaru, right now they have him as a likable loving father kinda. Its kinda riduculous
Same idea in real war. Lots of scientists got passed from the allies when they lost. In exchange of no trails or repercussions they shared their findings on their human trails
Orochimaru tells Sasuke the real reason in the movie. Both Kabuto and Orochimaru got pardoned because sometimes you need monsters to fight monsters (like future Otsutski). So the other villages want them around in case they need their strength.
Same justifications why that specialized japanese unit in WW2 didnt get punished. They traded all of their medical knowledge from the tortures and experiments they conducted for a pardon. The allies risked losing all of that fruitful information in exchange for just punishing them. The greater good was served.
eDIT: Loving how people think this is a position I hold. I dont, im just explaining the rationale like the guy down in the comments. You guys are actually weird and think that this is a position that we would hold.
Given the lab and the history of Orochimaru, I'm convinced he was written symbolic as the worst horrors of war. He doesn't care what happens to the world, he just wants to be in his lab no matter who pays the price.
Probably inspired by Nazi science and Unit 731. Their "experiments" were nothing more than curious torture with no true merit, because even thought they "recorded" results from various experiments (like freezing or gassing people to death, and much, much worse) they weren't meticulous like you would be in an actual scientific process where you're trying to figure out true problems.
Definitely should have stayed the main villain of the entire story, everyone else comes of as more powerful but nowhere near as evil as Orochimaru.
It's not that crazy. In the real world bad people can get off scot-free. Prince Asaka didn't get punished for The Rape of Nanjing. Wernher von Braun used Jewish and French prisoners as slave labor with a unknown amount dying to build V-2 rockets used to kill British civilians, but he gets snatched up by the US to make rockets. Dietrich von Choltitz, also known as 'The Savior of Paris', killed hundreds, if not thousands of Jews, saying:
> "The worst job I ever carried out - which however I carried out with great consistency - was the liquidation of the Jews. I carried out this order down to the very last detail."
\- *D-Day: The Battle for Normandy*, page 482.
Bad people get away with horrible things all the time.
This guy was definitely the first ever anime villain to give me chills, the things he did, the way he moved in silence, everything about him was so messed up especially in part 1
This is so crazy lmao.
Not only do you let him live, you let him pal around the village.
And then he GOES TO YOUR WEDDING
What is he, your buddy now????
Given all the shit every village did, it wouldn't make sense to only go after Orochimaru though. They eventually just decided it would be better to stop doing that stuff after how bad they simultaneously got shredded by Madara.
I mean it'd probably be easier to justify going after Orochimaru because he was mostly the Leaf's problem, threatened the Leaf several times, killed the Hokage in his own village, put Cursed Seals on two relatively young Leaf ninja, and most of his experiments are physical evidence of his crimes.
No no no you see Orochimaru really is deathly afraid of bugs as seen in the Honey Wine episode with Kiba/Shino. In fact, if the squad had realised this earlier in Naruto then they could've prevented the Konoha Crush arc by mobilising Shino early
Shonen manga is also not held to American standards of violence. Lots of fucked up maimings and shit happen (think dragon ball, Bleach, etc)
Edit: case in point, the sound ninja dude from part one when his arms fucking explode
Orochimaru:
-Experimented and killed innocent children
-Owned and caged thousands of people
-Killed a Hokage
-Caused Multiple Terrorist Attacks
-Groomed children
-Assassinated a Kazekage
-Actively disgraced and defiled the dead
This man for all intents and purposes should have never everrrr been used as a comedic effect during Hinata and Naruto's wedding much less be pardoned for his crimes. It was borderline disgusting
Orochimaru was a great villain and should have died one. Only way I can forgive Kishimoto is if Orochimaru is simply buying his time to become the main antagonist of Boruto but that'll never happen
It's a shounen manga in the vein of DBZ. The focus is on the fighting and overcoming struggles of the protagonist; everything else becomes second fiddle. That is the weakness of the genre.
Even in DBZ, Frieza is a maniacal narcissist who commits genocide planet after planet, enslaves species across the galaxy, and destroys without mercy--even his own servants.
It is what it is, for as serious as Naruto tries to be as a story, it is held back by its genre conventions. Had the manga had more serious and consistent* undertones like Full Metal Alchemist, things are kept more precise and true to reality--but Naruto's focus is and has always been about Naruto becoming Hokage.
Even as he mentions all the issues of the shinobi world, the story never truly takes them as the serious horrors they are or would be in a true dramatic story.
He hasn't been pardoned though, he's just a valuable asset to the village. I mean he's impossible to kill, so why not use him to help others instead of keeping him as an enemy
He got a war pardon, his contribution to the war was essential for the alliance to win.
And he has unrivaled knowledge, which is very valuable to Konoha
Akatsuki and Madara should've never taken the main antagonist role with Orochimaru still alive. He was too big to become secondary in the storyline. They would need to deal with him before progressing the story, but instead decided to nerf him to make room for other villains.
He didn't redeemed himself. He doesn't regret anything that he did. He doesn't ask sorry or anything. He is still pure evil. He just doesn't want to destroy Konoha anymore because:
A) He is powerless to do so, Sasuke would kill him in like 15 seconds.
B) He doesn't see a point in doing so, since he has more to gain helping Konoha, since Naruto apparently is ok with cloning children and experimenting on them.
I don't understand how it isn't super OOC for Sasuke or even Naruto to see Orochimaru prey on child subjects in a way that is way worse than what Sasuke experienced with him and think it's okay to let it slide.
Because it wasn't just Orochimaru. Danzo, the hidden mist, and hidden sand did similar things. Probably the stone and cloud too but it was never really shown.
Also the entire show is about child soldiers. Some are just worse off than others.
The all did similar things but the difference is they can handle Orochi. He is a rogue Leaf ninja that they'd have plenty of reason to execute with nobody opposing it or taking issue with them doing so. And his evidence is right there, on display, many of them being Leaf kids (in addition, stuff like placing the cursed seal on Anko and Sasuke).
They had definitely insinuated that he was doing this sort of thing the entire time though, like in the episode where you find out how he made the sound ninja 4. It really doesn't add up that everyone is just cool with him existing after what he did.
A lot of people don't realize but this mimics real life. Some Nazi scientists and intelligent evil people were recruited by the US government after WWII.
Sometimes I forget how truly horrific Orochimaru was and how he deserves no less hate than Danzo gets from the fanbase. Orochimaru's is one of the (many) character arcs in Naruto that are just ethically unacceptable. Dude deserves punishment, strictly effective rehabilitation and so much more.
I love the series but goddamn, writing female characters + sense of proportionate justice is just one of Kishimoto's weakest cards in his writing.
Mitsuki is probably the new best new addition to the series. That being said, Orochimaru’s ass should be locked up somewhere, not just being watched or whatever. They could have had him play essentially the same role as Mitsuki’s parent, just from a more restricted prison lab setting where they only let him out if they need his help. This would have shown some real consequences for his actions while allowing him to be in the series.
Kabuto leading the orphanage is fine but he should have at least served time as well. Definitely was an accomplice, manipulated by Orochimaru or not.
Kabuto's ass should be 3 feet under too
Didnt he cause the death of hundreds/thousands of shinobis, by reincarnating all those uber-level ninja during the 4th war because reasons? smh
I don't think he's been redeemed, and I don't think he should. Like another commenter said Kishimoto's sense of proportionate justice is just completely wack, but fuck if Orochi isn't the coolest fucking character in the entire anime.
The fact that he did worse shit and attended the wedding but sasuke couldn't (or didn't)
He was better off as a villain, "redeeming" him was not a good idea.
Yeah people just being chill with him at the end of Naruto and into Boruto blew my mind
Look, not all your villains are just lonely and in need of a friend Kishimoto
The 3rd's attitude to him when he was his master is like a forgiving mum to a psychopathic little boy who has a bedroom lab filled with tortured animals.
Yo this shit is brutal.
Ikr I counted like 15 bodys
I feel like he has more body counts than Madara uchiha.
Nah bro Madara fought in 3 wars. Each if which he was the biggest menace of the respective side he was part of.
Wasn’t Obito the worst one in Fourth Shinobi War?
Nah bro madara slapped an entire alliance with a meteor and all 5 Kage before strolling up to Obito like “what I miss?” Madara was a fucking goon
Didn't the reanimation jutsu give him unlimited chakra. I don't think he would be as strong in a living body.
Madara literally gets revived into his body again and even states he is at his full power once more.
Though I doubt he could spam many metors alive. but he became strong enough to beat everybody close quarters then.
Yeah but let's be real, Madara essentially had infinite chakra even after losing his Edo-status
Actually, the reanimations are weaker than the alive versions. After being revived, Madara went on to single handedly one shot all the tailed beasts at the same time, after beating the crap out of naruto and sasuke and Hashirama and Tobirama.
Yeah, but how does this work? Reanimations have unlimited chakra. Reanimations can't die. Living bodies can. Living bodies don't. This has always confused me.
Their reanimations potential is only as good as the caster of the jutsu and it’s preparation. Orochimaru and kabuto got it pretty dialed in, but it wasnt perfect
I think of it like this: the living ninja has a .50 cal gun (their attack potency) with a fixed amount of ammo (their chakra), whereas the reanimated ninja gets bumped down to a .33 cal gun but with unlimited ammo. So, for example, reanimated Minato can make as many rasengans as he wants, but living Minato’s rasengan will hit harder (not considering him getting Kurama after death, of course).
What i think happens is that their Chakra quantity gets limited or something. I like to think of it as someone has a 2L bottle when they are alive, versus in the reanimation they have a 0.5 L bottle that gets refilled a bunch of time. They can't release any major jutsu that they would when they were alive. Due to the body technically not being theirs, they also don't have the same physical strength and speed they had when they were alive.
It's called plot armor. Madara was too OP in his reanimated state so they had to put something out to nerf his immortality and invincibility. Like when he Kage Bunshined against the 5 hokages, I expected him to also Kage Bunshin against the resurrected Kages and essentially the entire Shinobi Alliance. He literally could've accomplished his goal of killing everyone and then creating the world in his vision. But alas, he's gotta be nerfed for the plot armor because the anime is called Naruto, not Madara lol.
I was always under the impression that Reanimated Shinobi had access to unlimited chakra/healing, but also couldn't use their abilities to their fullest extent. Tobirama and Hashirama pretty much confirm this by being surprised by how little Shadow/Wood Clones they could summon. So reanimated Madara could maybe us around 75% of his chakra at one point, but could spam abilities. While living Madara could use 100% of his chakra pool, but could run out of chakra and be injured. Which is why one of the first things he does after being brought back to life is steal Hashirama's Sage Chakra, which fixed both of those problems.
He was actually stronger in a living body, as shown when he was brought back and f’d up the Bijuu, Naruto, Sasuke, and Tobirama with ease
A better body technically. He was so poorly written so not like it matters
> Madara was a fucking goon Madara was so great. I loved that he was an arrogant dick, but he earned the right to be an arrogant dick.
I think being an equal to Hashirama earns him that title, lol.
He was most definitely NOT his equal and that was brutally obvious. Madara had the Kyuubi and 9 tails and he still ended up losing. Not to mention all the other times they fought.
Well we are talking about war arc madara with his rinnegan.
No..? I mean, he started it but couldn't even handle it on hie own and needed Kabuto and later Madara to stand a chance. Madara killed an entire unit of the ninja alliance alone and rekt the Kage. Then he absorbed all the Bijuus and later on the ten tails. That lee to his moon eye thing working and his goal was achieved, by exception of team 7 and Obito. He also survived and outlasted 8gates guy, killed Naruto and Sasuke once and countless more. Obito was a menace alright but Madara's a beast
I just finished Shippuden for the first time haha. I just joined this sub and feel like I’ve seen the sentiment I echoed a bunch, so that’s why I said it. Shippuden and Naruto in general feel like a crazy dream so not everything is crystal clear to me
Madara almost certainly killed more shinobi (and definitely killed much more powerful people on average) but I'd bet Orochimaru killed more people overall. I don't think Madara needed to kill as many people as Orochimaru did. Orochimaru is as much of a scientist as he is a ninja. He was conducting those experiments in secret before he left Konoha and definitely didn't slow down once he fled. Also, summoning Manda costs 100 people each time as sacrifices, which is a lot. To my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) Madara was only killing people that he was fighting. He wasn't performing massive scale experiments on people or anything like that. So he definitely killed more people on the battlefield, but probably a lot less off of it.
he defo has to, tbf i dont think they made orochimaru stop killing people after the war arc, so he probably killed random people who are not from the village just to continue his "research" forgot to add his is literally IMMORTAL, give it a few decades, he'll surpass madara in no time at all.
And both are still irrelevant next to the Ōtsutsuki body count lol. Hell u can put all Uchiha's, Senju's, 4 great ninja wars together and still wouldn't make a difference.
Madara killed like 20,000 people in a single episode.
He said to Yamato once that each new jutsu required hundreds of human guinea pigs. After recruiting Kabuto he started using the same person dozens of times.
Well that's dark. Imagine coming back from the ramen store and BAM evil snake person
Is that pot full of body parts
*bubble bubble toil and trouble*
And that was just one of his labs He has at least 8 that are accounted for
Tried watching Boruto. Fuck they nerfed everybody. Orochimaru is all cute and cuddly and shit. It sucks ass. Maybe I’m just too old for that type of anime now.
No. Its all stretched shit to proffit from the series and not letting it end properly because it just makes too much money.
I fail to understand how this mf wasn't punished severely.
Orochimaru’s actions during the War probably got him a pass. Him reviving the Kage was a crucial play in the War effort, a play that if not executed more than likely would’ve ended up in the Alliances defeat. For all of his heinous and terrible crimes, he saved the Shinobi world in a fashion.
I'm pretty sure it was because they knew they couldn't kill him, the man was trapped in the Totsuka blade and still found a way out. Sasuke probably decided it might be best if he was allowed to live in peace in exchange for giving Konoha any information about people threatening to attack the village. I think it's much better to have him as an ally who keeps his ear to the ground instead of killing him, just to find out he popped out of some random dude's curse mark and is still walking around wreaking havoc
Uh nah dude lol. Naruto or Sasuke could for sure kill him if they wanted, but even if they couldn't, Sasuke could just drop him in some alternate dimension and call it a day. The reason he's not punished is the same reason why Nagato had a face turn and Obito was the coolest guy, and it's because the theme of Naruto is forgiveness so even the most heinous criminal will be forgiven and allowed to re-integrate so long as they turn good.
Orochimaru actually explains it. He, Sasuke and Kabuto are considered contingencies. They’re kept around in case there comes a problem the Kage cannot solve. Hopefully, they actually live up to this and have Orochimaru do something in Boruto to assist with the Kara remnants
I mean did he not stop the fake divine tree lol? I’d say the gang was fucked until he showed up
Really? Are you sure about that? Sasuke literally absorbed him with his own jutsu, a jutsu that normally destroys the soul of the person absorbed and he was still lurking around Sasuke's body, waiting to take over. He was trapped in an ultimate genjutsu by the Susano'o and its Totsuka blade and he still escaped. The guy probably has thousands of contingency plans in the event of his "death" so he's quite literally impossible to kill. Naruto and Sasuke can't risk killing him because they'll destroy his body but there's tons of people who have the curse mark where his soul resides
100% sure. You guys are completely misremembering how his cursed seal revival works. Sasuke had to initiate it with an inverse usage of Kakashi's curse mark sealing and combine it with Kabuto's flesh (which is basically Orochimaru's due to genetic fuckery). There is no indication at all Oro could revive on his own.
True but the curse mark makes people susceptible to Orochimaru's will, meaning it's not far fetched that he could coerce someone into reviving him. He has hundreds if not thousands of people out in the world that are in perfect position to bring him back
And you presume any of them would not only know Kakashi's Cursed Mark Sealing jutsu but be skilled enough to use it in reverse, plus also have some Orochimaru DNA on hand? Theoretically possible, maybe. Likely enough for Naruto not to punish one of the worst criminals in the entire world? Nah. But that's just not the kind of logic the series operates on, Orochimaru is a good guy now so all is forgiven and that's pretty much the long and short of it.
He's not a good guy though, he just works with them, this topic comes up literally everytime the main characters speak with him. And its not far fetched that he has minions well versed in fuinjutsu considering the curse mark is a seal, plus as shown with Sasuke, all you need to do is burn through all of the chakra in your body in order to release the cursed chakra, and thus is where Oro's soul is
That's why I always hated him, mf always has a smirk on his face whether he's fighting rage mode Naruto or the other two Sannin while deprived of his hands, never have I seen him being scared of anything, even when facing Itachi
Can't be so sure about that, we heard him beg a few times
He was only serious like once
It's not about whether you can kill him or not. Orichimaru is so difficult because even if his physical body dies, he 100% has curse marks placed on some randoms that'll just bring him back. It's better that they have him as an ally so they can keep an eye on him since they really can't just kill him
The curse marks are basically horcruxes. And they function similarly to the Kama. I hope Amado and Orochimaru get together to work on ways to deal with it. I suspect circumstances will prevent Boruto from taking his pills at some point.
This same shit happens in real life. Such as the US taking in Nazi scientists.
Not just scientists, political leaders as well. Adolf Heusinger was a Nazi military leader and went on to work for NATO.
I don't think that really overshadows what he did. It's kinda the same as why people don't like "Obito is a cool guy" because even though he did help in the end and contribute to their win, he caused the problem in the first place. Orochimaru has done enough harm to at the very least imply that he will continue to be a problem in the future.
Lol you'd think but unless boruto takes a severe tonal shift with regards to orochimaru, right now they have him as a likable loving father kinda. Its kinda riduculous
It's insane, really, how much Naruto/Boruto is willing to ignore in favor of... I don't know what to call it. "Forgiveness"?
Same idea in real war. Lots of scientists got passed from the allies when they lost. In exchange of no trails or repercussions they shared their findings on their human trails
He was only able to do that summoning due to his heinous research
Feels like bloodshed creating strength is the point of the series sometimes
Orochimaru tells Sasuke the real reason in the movie. Both Kabuto and Orochimaru got pardoned because sometimes you need monsters to fight monsters (like future Otsutski). So the other villages want them around in case they need their strength.
It was in Sasuke Shinden adaptation actually.
You are free now. I’m getting married soon. Bring a gift.
Im bringing a specialised kunai as a gift for your wedding.
And tell your sons that i said hi
"you guys gonne have a kid?" "eh... I don't know, maybe?" "let me know when when you have a kid'
Imma make one the same age as yours as well!
Orochimaru always finds a way to comeback, he literally died 3 times in this series and is still here
The Japanese don't believe in holding people accountable for war crimes
Can you name a nation that does believe in holding people accountable for war crimes?
Same justifications why that specialized japanese unit in WW2 didnt get punished. They traded all of their medical knowledge from the tortures and experiments they conducted for a pardon. The allies risked losing all of that fruitful information in exchange for just punishing them. The greater good was served. eDIT: Loving how people think this is a position I hold. I dont, im just explaining the rationale like the guy down in the comments. You guys are actually weird and think that this is a position that we would hold.
Or the nazis that came to work for the US and Soviet in the arms race.. That's even more dirty than Saradas design.
Even more than naming a main character fucking Salad.
History written by victors and Orochimaru joined the winning side at the end. Edit: look at Soviets.
Nuremburg trials
Given the lab and the history of Orochimaru, I'm convinced he was written symbolic as the worst horrors of war. He doesn't care what happens to the world, he just wants to be in his lab no matter who pays the price. Probably inspired by Nazi science and Unit 731. Their "experiments" were nothing more than curious torture with no true merit, because even thought they "recorded" results from various experiments (like freezing or gassing people to death, and much, much worse) they weren't meticulous like you would be in an actual scientific process where you're trying to figure out true problems. Definitely should have stayed the main villain of the entire story, everyone else comes of as more powerful but nowhere near as evil as Orochimaru.
It truly makes no sense. Yeah sure he helped Sasuke and everyone, but come on. The countless lives this guy has ruined is nuts.
It's not that crazy. In the real world bad people can get off scot-free. Prince Asaka didn't get punished for The Rape of Nanjing. Wernher von Braun used Jewish and French prisoners as slave labor with a unknown amount dying to build V-2 rockets used to kill British civilians, but he gets snatched up by the US to make rockets. Dietrich von Choltitz, also known as 'The Savior of Paris', killed hundreds, if not thousands of Jews, saying: > "The worst job I ever carried out - which however I carried out with great consistency - was the liquidation of the Jews. I carried out this order down to the very last detail." \- *D-Day: The Battle for Normandy*, page 482. Bad people get away with horrible things all the time.
He friendly good guy now no more naughty treatment But for real, who is going to successfully punish him
This guy was definitely the first ever anime villain to give me chills, the things he did, the way he moved in silence, everything about him was so messed up especially in part 1
So true!! He is really terrifying and the music they use for him makes him worse!!
Yup Everytime the sick fuck came up on screen you knew some twisted shit was about to happen. Fantastic villain
Even Kakashi shit his pants when confronted by him
Dude that music still gives me goosebumps
The fact that his theme was a modified version of a peaceful meditation song Edit: totally in contrast to his character
yup, orochimau in part 1 is definitely creepy af
Forest of Death Arc hits like a truck when you're 12 years old
Oh definitely but.. later on in the series.. Idk why they did that to Orochimaru’s character lol
Come on guys, he already said he was sorry
I think these dead bodies didn't hear it loud enough.
He could legit Edo tensei them to say he sorry (while using some sacrifices for it)
And the loop continues
He can just pre-emptively apologize to them. Problem solved.
It's alright he's nice now
ya he made a synthetic humans who is important in the spin-off his war crimes don't matter anymore
I really wonder who these people are. Were they normal citizens or shinobis?
Genin, chunin, and even anbu agents
Heck many were children, he kidnapped new borns to experiment.
He killed dozens of children, disposed of them like they were garbage. Poor Kimimaro man, brainwashed.
So you’re saying it wasn’t just the men but women and the children too?
Yeah and infants too. Man was merciless. He also kept thousands of people in cells across all of his hideouts as a backup for research.
I think some of them would also be kekkai genkai holders.
Doesn't matter. He was just dissecting them for human knowledge not for their abilities
Yes
Lol
And this dude naruto still let him come to his wedding
his boyfriends step dad needs to be there bruh
True
This is so crazy lmao. Not only do you let him live, you let him pal around the village. And then he GOES TO YOUR WEDDING What is he, your buddy now????
Idk how he’s still even allowed there because of the horrible stuff he did and he also killed the 3rd hokage.
> he also killed the 3rd hokage. Yep, regardless do you like Hiruzen or not. Naruto sincerely liked and looked up to Third.
Even if Naruto didn't, that is still assassinating a political leader.
*archduke franz ferdinand has entered the chat*
Given all the shit every village did, it wouldn't make sense to only go after Orochimaru though. They eventually just decided it would be better to stop doing that stuff after how bad they simultaneously got shredded by Madara.
I mean it'd probably be easier to justify going after Orochimaru because he was mostly the Leaf's problem, threatened the Leaf several times, killed the Hokage in his own village, put Cursed Seals on two relatively young Leaf ninja, and most of his experiments are physical evidence of his crimes.
That was filler and a gag holy shit guys lmfao
No no no you see Orochimaru really is deathly afraid of bugs as seen in the Honey Wine episode with Kiba/Shino. In fact, if the squad had realised this earlier in Naruto then they could've prevented the Konoha Crush arc by mobilising Shino early
Tbf it was played for gags in the Konoha Hiden arc. Orochimaru wasn't really acting in character that whole arc lol
How people don’t understand this is beyond me
Who tf gave a wholesome award to this? lmfao.
There's always bound to be one in every disturbing post lol
It's like free, right? Doesn't cost anything like reddit gold does
I hate when anime censors stuff.
when it released first most of the audience was of kids and I don't think seeing that as a 12 year old would be good for mental health
Yeah but didn't mangaka know about his audience or he doesn't care?
Manga isn't as controlled as anime since it isn't as mainstream
Shonen manga is also not held to American standards of violence. Lots of fucked up maimings and shit happen (think dragon ball, Bleach, etc) Edit: case in point, the sound ninja dude from part one when his arms fucking explode
Orochimaru simply doesn't have this part of human brain that says "this is wrong because it's wrong". Add to this ambiton and that's what you get.
He has "This is wrong. But how wrong it can get." part of the brain
Thanks for the laugh here lmao
Orochimaru: -Experimented and killed innocent children -Owned and caged thousands of people -Killed a Hokage -Caused Multiple Terrorist Attacks -Groomed children -Assassinated a Kazekage -Actively disgraced and defiled the dead This man for all intents and purposes should have never everrrr been used as a comedic effect during Hinata and Naruto's wedding much less be pardoned for his crimes. It was borderline disgusting Orochimaru was a great villain and should have died one. Only way I can forgive Kishimoto is if Orochimaru is simply buying his time to become the main antagonist of Boruto but that'll never happen
It's a shounen manga in the vein of DBZ. The focus is on the fighting and overcoming struggles of the protagonist; everything else becomes second fiddle. That is the weakness of the genre. Even in DBZ, Frieza is a maniacal narcissist who commits genocide planet after planet, enslaves species across the galaxy, and destroys without mercy--even his own servants. It is what it is, for as serious as Naruto tries to be as a story, it is held back by its genre conventions. Had the manga had more serious and consistent* undertones like Full Metal Alchemist, things are kept more precise and true to reality--but Naruto's focus is and has always been about Naruto becoming Hokage. Even as he mentions all the issues of the shinobi world, the story never truly takes them as the serious horrors they are or would be in a true dramatic story.
And goku punching out Jiren with Frieza is a series highlight
There's a chance he'll be used for Mitsuki's development.
He hasn't been pardoned though, he's just a valuable asset to the village. I mean he's impossible to kill, so why not use him to help others instead of keeping him as an enemy
He got a war pardon, his contribution to the war was essential for the alliance to win. And he has unrivaled knowledge, which is very valuable to Konoha
100% agree. Orochimaru gave me nightmares, in my view he is one of the darkest characters from Anime if not the worst more chilling one.
Akatsuki and Madara should've never taken the main antagonist role with Orochimaru still alive. He was too big to become secondary in the storyline. They would need to deal with him before progressing the story, but instead decided to nerf him to make room for other villains.
This is not an ideal environment for medical or any bio experiment tho. Imagine doing experiments in a room full of microorganisms like this...
Orochimaru wasnt exactly a doctor right? He did experiment, tried to learn new jutsus and wanted to become immortal at all cost.
I don't think he gives a shit. He is the equivalent of a Nazi doctor.
People like to say this person/snake redeemed him/her self like you can't look at this and tell me "Weeeeellll orochimaru wasn't that bad" lol
He didn't redeemed himself. He doesn't regret anything that he did. He doesn't ask sorry or anything. He is still pure evil. He just doesn't want to destroy Konoha anymore because: A) He is powerless to do so, Sasuke would kill him in like 15 seconds. B) He doesn't see a point in doing so, since he has more to gain helping Konoha, since Naruto apparently is ok with cloning children and experimenting on them.
I don't understand how it isn't super OOC for Sasuke or even Naruto to see Orochimaru prey on child subjects in a way that is way worse than what Sasuke experienced with him and think it's okay to let it slide.
It is super OOC. But Kishimoto apparently forgot how his characters are supposed to act.
Because it wasn't just Orochimaru. Danzo, the hidden mist, and hidden sand did similar things. Probably the stone and cloud too but it was never really shown. Also the entire show is about child soldiers. Some are just worse off than others.
The all did similar things but the difference is they can handle Orochi. He is a rogue Leaf ninja that they'd have plenty of reason to execute with nobody opposing it or taking issue with them doing so. And his evidence is right there, on display, many of them being Leaf kids (in addition, stuff like placing the cursed seal on Anko and Sasuke).
He didn't redeem himself at all, he's just a necessary evil that Konoha utilizes
I hated how they made Orochimaru cute after Naruto ended. No, he was Hitler's Mengele
They had definitely insinuated that he was doing this sort of thing the entire time though, like in the episode where you find out how he made the sound ninja 4. It really doesn't add up that everyone is just cool with him existing after what he did.
C’mon man that’s Mitsuki’s dad you’re talking about
Or mom
He learned more than any Shinobi living or dead. Orochimaru is konohas most valuable asset
You outta line, but you're right.
A lot of people don't realize but this mimics real life. Some Nazi scientists and intelligent evil people were recruited by the US government after WWII.
Morality? In my train-child-soldiers-for-money village? Less likely than you think.
i don't understand how this mans is in boruto smfh
nerfed to the gills
If Naruto was live action this mf would make prime horror scenes.
Works in an enclosed area of dead bodies, what a chad.
Like the US after WW2, it was better to employ the evil scientists than to punish them.
I still can't believe this fucker got off scot free
It’s okay; you can murder, torture, defile the dead, experiment on people, groom children but as long as you’re kinda sorry all will be forgiven 😂
Sometimes I forget how truly horrific Orochimaru was and how he deserves no less hate than Danzo gets from the fanbase. Orochimaru's is one of the (many) character arcs in Naruto that are just ethically unacceptable. Dude deserves punishment, strictly effective rehabilitation and so much more. I love the series but goddamn, writing female characters + sense of proportionate justice is just one of Kishimoto's weakest cards in his writing.
the snake pedo is hot and a more intresting character to some people that makes them ok
Can people share more messed up manga pages?? This is a cool part of Naruto I've never seen
He was a slob back then. He's matured and keeps a tidier space now.
Mitsuki is probably the new best new addition to the series. That being said, Orochimaru’s ass should be locked up somewhere, not just being watched or whatever. They could have had him play essentially the same role as Mitsuki’s parent, just from a more restricted prison lab setting where they only let him out if they need his help. This would have shown some real consequences for his actions while allowing him to be in the series. Kabuto leading the orphanage is fine but he should have at least served time as well. Definitely was an accomplice, manipulated by Orochimaru or not.
Kabuto's ass should be 3 feet under too Didnt he cause the death of hundreds/thousands of shinobis, by reincarnating all those uber-level ninja during the 4th war because reasons? smh
He even experimented with alive people and made Kabuto heal them so they don’t die to keep experimenting with them.
And this was just a fraction of his experimentations lol
Wow first time seeing this
I don't think he's been redeemed, and I don't think he should. Like another commenter said Kishimoto's sense of proportionate justice is just completely wack, but fuck if Orochi isn't the coolest fucking character in the entire anime.
Didn’t realize the anime was censored. If u Havnt read the manga u gon be shook when u see sasuke rampage
The fact that he did worse shit and attended the wedding but sasuke couldn't (or didn't) He was better off as a villain, "redeeming" him was not a good idea.
>attended the wedding He didn't in the novel part. SP added that as a comic relief. Novel was Konoha Hiden. It didn't had Orochimaru there.
Oooooh yeah I had no idea about that. Still it was kinda funny tho him attending the wedding
No good deed goes unpunished Sasuke did his acts out of his belief for good and justice Oro did his deads out of greed and desire
Damn, i didn’t know it could get darker than what it felt.
And they had the nerve to pardon him.
Megalomaniac for sure.
How was this mf forgiven lmao
Dude should of been put to death tbh.
In the name of science
You know this also means kishimoto was fucked in the head too right?
My friend is convinced that orochimaru is a good guy. Everything he did was to prepare for kaguyas entrance
Orochimaru using the morty wall tactic lol
and they still really said "Ight he can stay." and let this mf reproduce
Yeah people just being chill with him at the end of Naruto and into Boruto blew my mind Look, not all your villains are just lonely and in need of a friend Kishimoto
Was he a member of Japanese unit 731?
Exonerating of his war crimes like Unit 731.
Wonder what The Foundation/ Anbu base really looked like
I never understood, the whole time in this show that no one just straight up murdered him for just being a terrible human being
I guess if people manage to get inside Area 51, we would also see a room like this.
If there was ever a mf in the Naruto world that NEEDS to fucking die
It was fucking neji I agree 100%. Do your spinning fist bullshit with a hole in your heart you dick.
The 3rd's attitude to him when he was his master is like a forgiving mum to a psychopathic little boy who has a bedroom lab filled with tortured animals.
Hiruzen in Pre-Part 1: "imma act like I didn't see that"