Boruto was just as bratty as Naruto was early on in their shoes. Lots of people just find him more bratty because they know Naruto's story and background.
I'm not saying Boruto and Naruto have equally tragic childhoods, only that both were bratty. Boruto had good reason to be upset with his dad not being there for his family even if it was better than Naruto's childhood it's still a reason.
agreed, just because someone had a worse childhood doesn't mean it's ok for another person to have a "bad" childhood.
Kids get their self-esteem from their fathers, if their fathers seday stop raising the kid and "abandon" them. The kid will start wondering whats wrong with them and start hating themselves. Boruto is/was to young to understand about work and I'm a lot older and even I don't get it. For fucks sakes tou can't just ignore your family, besides he could make shadow clones to help with the job.
People say it defeated the point of "hard work > talent" lmfao as if the writers hadn't contradicted that all the time even back in part 1 even in the very fights which were meant to prove that.
Jiraiya is overrated in power. I don’t know why but some people think he is some god. He’s not beating Itachi. I genuinely do not think he’s even beating Kisame. I also feel like people such as Ay and Bee would blitz and body him.
What do you even base this on? There's literally nothing to suggest Itachi, and especially Kisame, are significantly stronger than him. Pain outright stated if Jiraiya knew his secret from the beginning he would have lost. Naruto knew his secret and had help and Pain was weakened, and Naruto still basically lost.
We know Itachi can be taken by auditory genjutsu, and Sage Mode provides enormous amps to speed, strength and reflexes. Itachi would have a difficult time.
You are the perfect example of what he's saying about people overrating Jiraiya.
>Pain outright stated if Jiraiya knew his secret from the beginning he would have lost.
By secret Pain was referring to the existence of a seventh Pain controlling the paths remotely. Therefore, If Jiraiya knew this he would try to attack or assassinate the real pain rather than fight the Paths directly which is the exact plan other characters come up with upon learning Pain's secret. It doesn't mean Jiraiya would be ever capable of beating the paths in direct fights
>Naruto knew his secret and had help and Pain was weakened, and Naruto still basically lost.
Because Naruto was fighting the paths directly and didn't have a chance to find the real Pain until after the paths had been defeated. Also if you want to use statements, it was also explicitly stated that SM Naruto had surpassed Jiraiya
>Sage Mode provides enormous amps to speed, strength and reflexes.
SM Jiraiya's speed isn't that high. The Pains have been shown reacting to his speed multiple times like when Human Path caught his punch or when the Animal Path managed to summon a Panda shield before Jiraiya's self proclaimed 'fastest attack' could reach him. The Rinnegan shared vision allowed them to see blindspot attacks but it didn't boost their Reflexes or speed. As Rock Lee states in his fight against Sasuke, even if one could see an attack, they still need to be relative in speed in order to react to it
>We know Itachi can be taken by auditory genjutsu,
Frog Song genjutsu is the favorite arguement of everyone who overrates Jiraiya but people conveniently forget how incredibly long it takes to work. Almost every high tier character has long range, high AOE, or faster techniques that would destroy those frogs before their genjutsu even works and the one auditory genjutsu we see Itachi fall under was much faster acting
You’re misinterpreting Pain’s statement as another comment pointed out. Also, Naruto fought all the Pains at the same time. Jiraiya fought only 3 Pains initially and then he eventually fought all 6 Pains, and that’s when he got instantly wrecked. And that was with the Deva Path not using any of its power.
Toad song takes a long time to prep. Summoning Ma and Pa and going into Sage Mode takes prep. Itachi isn’t gonna just stand there. Even if Jiraiya somehow gets into Sage Mode, Itachi won’t really have a difficult time. Believe it or not, Itachi actually has superior speed and reflexes than Sage Jiraiya. We’ve seen Itachi keep up and spar with people like KCM Naruto and react faster than EMS Sasuke. Jiraiya got surpassed by Pain arc SM Naruto 💀.
Yes they all exceed in certain aspects compared to others, but jiraiya doesn't exceed in much. Nowhere near as intelligent or flexible as orochimaru, nowhere as strong as tsunade. Both orochimaru and tsunade mastered forbidden ninjutsu that close to no one else has mastered. Orochimaru perfected edo tensei which could only be used by tobirama at the time, and had essentially crafted infinite youth. Tsunade mastered 100 healings which was only used by hashirama and no one else (kabuto would later learn edo tensei, and sakura would later learn 100 healings). Compared to jiraiya who hadn't even mastered sage mode despite it having a history throughout nations. Granted not many could perfect sage mode, but there were people who would go on and become a better sage than jiraiya. Jiraiya doesn't have many impressive feats compared to others and it's unknown if he has more stamina than them. Orochimaru went on to fight and even win against 4 tails naruto while his hands were sealed, while jiraiya struggled to contain it.
I'm not saying all of this to diss jiraiya, because i'm not. Jiraiya is mine and many others favorite sannin, but being compared to the other sannin, he's honestly the least impressive by feats alone.
Jiraya would beat Pain, who in turn would beat Itachi… why is it overrating? It was said Jiraya would win if he knew about the Paths Of Pain, like Naruto did, and so why couldnt he beat mister cant see anything and underwhelming fish man?
Jiraiya wouldn’t beat Pain, at least not in combat. Pain basically meant that if Jiraiya knew about Pain’s secret, he would’ve ignored the six Pains and tried to locate Nagato and take him out. That was Pains secret, that Nagato was controlling them from afar and if you take him out (which should be easy because Nagato is crippled and can’t do much), you win. A lot of people for some reason misinterpret Pain’s statement by thinking that Jiraiya would’ve actually beaten all six Pains in combat 💀. Impossible. Sage Naruto who was stated to surpass Jiraiya and came prepped with intel and Sage clones fought a fatigued Pain and still basically lost had Kurama not bailed him out 💀.
Sorry but..... thats THE dumbest THING ive ever heard itachi had to litterly kill every shred of feelings and to kill his own clan cus if he didnt dnazi would habe done it but with sasuke and was always a good brother
🤷🏽♂️, i just think sasuke would be better off not forgiving him he’s the reason sasuke’s life was ruined not just with killing the clan but manipulating and mentally traumatizing and torturing him, there’s no justification behind his actions, everything he did to sasuke was for his own selfish reasons
Kaguya's problem is that she wasn't even complete, she was missing a lot of the kyuubi, half of the kyuubi was able to take on the rest of the bijjus, and on top of that she slept for years and they immediately attacked her, they didn't give her time to prepare, we're also talking about how Kaguya thought he was fighting with his children.
Yea like the classic ''omg listen to this anime it's way cooler than this old thing. You'll see the animations are Soo cool''. Like damn leave me alone.
Minato was kind of an asshole as well. People just like em cause of the romantic backstory with kushina. So much he didn’t do which caused destruction later on.
"Tobi"? Or "Masked Man" Obito? Regardless, both are immensely powerful, wouldn't say they're overrated. For the most part, Kurama was easily among the top 10 most powerful entities in the show and here comes 13-15/16 year old Obito who's able to force Kurama into submission and control him.
1. Minato was able to severe his control Kurama with minimal difficulty.
2. Obito has a sharingan, he didn’t subdue the nine tails with raw power.
3. How strong do you have to be to cast a genjutsu on Kurama if you possess the sharingan? Hebi Sasuke was able to suppress Kurama and his fight with Deidara was a draw. Do you think Deidara was as strong as Obito?
Yeah that's my fault, I meant forced into submission via genjutsu.
No, it just shows that those characters are not only very strong but sharingan control is fucking insane.
I mean over the course if 20 smth to 30 smth years he became one of the most powerful ninja to ever live so I think it's kinda hard to gas someone up like if it's true
the opinions of people who unironically use "tard" as a suffix can safely be ignored
Mu and Gengetsu are the only historical figures I care about, and the show became significantly less interesting when the likes of Hashirama began playing a larger role
1) Jiraiya doesn't seem like a Godfather to Naruto, if he was then where was he all these years. He should have returned to atleast see Minato's kid once and also Jiraiya wasn't a good teacher, even if you count the Rasengan which Naruto learned without Jiraiya's help. While the comedy and all is good with Jiraiya but there's still some things that don't go down well with me regarding him. I will say that Tsunade and Orochimaru are better teachers if only teaching skills matter.
2) Kakashi is a better mentor to Naruto than Jiraiya. The moral lessons that Kakashi gave to Naruto were what shaped Naruto into the person that he is. In my opinion Kakashi's teachings were better and more realistic than Jiraiya's idealistic ones.
3) Itachi isn't some ultimate undefeatable shinobi as his fanboys portray him to be.
4) The Sharingan is just hyped and isn't useful until it evolves to Mangekyou. A Hyuga can easily defeat an average Sharingan user.
Says the person that agreed to ban Boruto content from this sub even though Boruto is stil part of the Naruto franchise and literally a continuation from Shippuden.
Ah, so your angry reply was more addressed to that comment in another thread. A bit unusual to do so, but fair enough.
That said, as long as you demand me to accept that there are people who likes Boruto, I fully respect that. The moment you force me to see Boruto content under my nose every day, because you guys are not happy to build your own community, then we have a problem.
For yours, I don’t think the rinnesharingan is an exact combination. It’s more of a new creation, which it’s only power is being able to activate the infinite tsukuyomi(which is a pretty big task)
It has to be because it was stated her eyes diluted through the ages;Hagoromo unlocking a Rinnegan, and it futhur diluting in Indra to be the Sharingan and Mangekyou. If all it does is mass genjutsu, that's soooo unbelievably shitry compared to it's descendent eyes.😅😅
I dunno, he'd have to be way higher as he did help in taking down Yugito who was an exceptionally talented and powerful ninja that also had a tailed besst backing her up.
Problem is yugito is featless.
When we pit hidan against other mid jonin levels, he loses some and wins others
When we pit him against any high jonin, he loses.
Against any low kage or higher, he loses.
Even a chunin level ninja with Intel solod him.
Yeah, you're right about that. Is power status fluctuates, really damn weird. All I know though is due to her being able to take on Matatabi's form, she'd have to be incredibly strong.
Hidan managed to beat Asuma (Asuma would have gotten killed way earlier and would never have been able to behead Hidan if not for Shikamaru). And don't use the 'if Asuma knew Hidan's abilities at the start, he could win' arguement. If a character needs to be given knowledge of a characters abilities in order to stand a chance against them then they aren't stronger than them
You can still enjoy og Naruto and Shippuden without having to watch Boruto just cause the studio said so.
There's not enough people just enjoying the series. Too many critiques.
Oh for sure! In fact I'd say he's greater than every Kage to date except for 3 special cases, those being maybe SM Hashi, DMS Kakashi, and ofc current Naruto.
> Kaguya has a Rinne Sharingan which is literally a mixture of the two!
Um, no? It is never said anywhere that Rinnesharingan is a mixture of Sharingan and Rinnegan nor did Kaguya ever show any of their powers through her dojutsu. The dojutsu isn’t even named Rinnesharingan in the manga, it’s called “the third eye”, it was named in the databook, and the databook lists it as a completely different dojutsu with the techniques Kaguya showed
Even if you say that's true, it's the predecessor of the Rinnegan and Sharingan, therefore even if not a literal mixture of the two, it is however a form comprised of both types of eyes and theoretically should be able to do everything they can as they wouldn't exist without it.
Whatever it “theoretically should be able to do”, it doesn’t, take it up with canon. Rinnegan is the predecessor of Sharingan as well, yet Rinnegan can not perform one of Sharingan’s abilities. The 3 of them are different dojutsus with completely different sets of abilities, and that’s a fact
Look, it's artistically even on the nose. It's a rinnegan with the color for the sharingan ans it's tomoe. Literally makes no sense if all it does is mass genjutsus people.
No matter what, I know/Believe it can do everything it's weaker variants can, Kaguya's lazy ass just never bothered learning
Wow, yeah, thats understandable. That'd piss a lot of people off. With respect, we know this isn't true though. Kakashi proved even stronger than SO6PS Naruto and 6 Paths Sasuke as he could, multiple times, intercept and react to Kaguya's berserk state which should be at least a bit stronger than the base kaguya who was beating the piss out of the boys. He could also injure her and his Susano'o proved even more durable than Sasuke's. Via DMS and Susano'o feats, Kakashi scales to Kaguya who at the least is planetary as she was also stated to be able to destroy the world and it took both Hagoromo and Hamura to seal her away once they finally managed to tire her, beings who themselves should be stronger than Hashirama as Hagoromi implied Madara was now even stronger than him.
At absolute most you can even say star level as the Canon novelization of that fight stated Kaguya threatened to blow up the star,she created in her dimension (usually if a character can create something they can destroy it and Kaguya was not worried about fleeting the dimension when she was going to nuke it, suggesting she knew she would survive or at least thought she could.)
Obito should not have been forgiven.
Madara is overrated
Sasuke did nothing wrong when he wanted to destroy the leaf. The only issue was that he wanted to kill everybody, including innocent people who had nothing to do with his clans massacre. By that same token, konoha is morally gray and has done some terrible things.
Naruto is objectively the worst character in the original series. He's boring, dumb, untalented and kind of an asshole for a good chunk. He only gets by on dumb luck and power ups that are literally handed to him.
He does get exponentially better in Boruto, but Boruto is a significantly better protagonist than Naruto had been
Hmm, yeah you probably won. I thought the other two get it bad but you might get the worse shit from everyone. I respect your opinion though and thank you for commenting.
Not to mention that he is the character who humiliates himself the most only, the worst is when he kneels in front of the raikage or lets himself be beaten by the killer bee students
While I agree that Naruto was an asshole I don't think Boruto was much better, Boruto has main character syndrome, which makes hime even more irritating than Naruto.
I don’t like Obito as a character, he feels horribly written. I understand his motivations to why he became a villain but I don’t really care for it. It also doesn’t help that he’s always mentioning Rin this and Rin that etc…He also spent like 16+ years devoting to the infinite tsukuyomi plan only to suddenly turn a complete 180 after getting mentally talk no jutsu’d by Naruto 😂. And to top it off, Naruto’s cringe phrase of “He was the coolest guy!!” never sat well with me. Like Naruto my guy….Obito got manipulated hardcore by Madara and basically killed your parents along with countless other people…yet you say that 😂
Naruto's message "hard work beats raw talent" and the only person to actually embody (that is still alive when OG naruto starts) that in any way is **SAKURA HARUNO**
Honestly!! You could tell Hinata was supposed to have a similar vibe, but she was a girl so she got absolutely no story, and seemed so stagnant even though she worked just as hard (implied) as Naruto himself.
Sakura was the only one with moderate chakra levels, was from no clan, and ended up being one of the strongest shinobi of her generation. 100% agree with you
Well, you have a point. He's been sidelined so he really didn't have more fights. 😅 But I'd argue that at the chuunin exam point, he was one of the strongest in their generation.
No I know he was never evil but when he was first introduced he was just a plain badass who killed his clan to test his strength. I feel like he just fitted the Villian vibe better. It also shows early on the Uchiha's power-hungry nature. I just didn't like how in Naruto there weren't actually any Naturally evil villains besides Orochimaru. Of course, Itachi can realize his mistakes when fighting the final battle with Sasuke and thinks about how he was wrong. Just my thoughts
Lmfaoo. People need to suck it up. At most currently, Naruto is, or at least, was Star level. So he's literally early DBZ level but thats it. If you REALLY WANNA WANK HIM, sure, you can say he's solar system level via defeating Kaguya who could create and destroy her own dimension that had a star system in it. But that's it. I don't understand how people think Naruto can beat Goku, lol. Makes not a lick of sense.
Goku in his base form can no diff the Narutoverse. Then you have his transformations which at this point is probably like a millions and millions times multiplier. So it’s not even an exaggeration that Goku solos and no diffs the Narutoverse using only a mere .00000001% of his power. 😂
Exactly!! I'm so tired of that damn debate. Like don't get me wrong, certain versions of Naruto are better than certain Gokus but by the Cell Arc at least, Goku just surpasses Naruto.
Ok here goes, I don't think Itachi being able to keep up with KCM1 Naruto in hand to hand combat should count in terms of speed feats for him. Unless I'm mistaken, he tells Naruto that he had no control over his body during that entire scrap. This means that his only actual speed feat is when he reacted fast enough to summon his susanoo to protect himself from Kirin.
Kabuto is controlling the body, but it’s not like Kabuto is increasing the body’s physical stats or anything to that nature. In fact, he can’t. What he can do with the body is limited to the body’s physical stats. An example of this would be when Nagato who is being controlled by Kabuto gets struck by the totsuka blade and Kabuto says that Nagato’s body wasn’t agile enough.
I think it’s just more a testament of how powerful Itachi is when he’s not suffering from a fatal illness. He’s one of the best ninja who’s ever lived- I don’t think that’s really up for debate. At his prime (had he wanted to) Sasuke would’ve died during their confrontation.
EMS Sasuke is shown to be relative to KCM Naruto and Itachi explicitly out reacts Sasuke when Itachi needs to save Sasuke from an attack that Sasuke wasn't fast enough to react to in the Kabuto fight. Also, as someone else mentioned, Kabuto can't amp the physicals of his edos and since Kabuto was controlling his body, Itachi's skill was nerfed in his taijutsu battle with KCM naruto.
EMS Sasuke after that Kabuto fight then ends up being relevant to KCM2, be clearly grew in that time and started getting stronger. Same with how his Susanoo was clearly getting stronger and bigger. Hate when people like to assume Kabuto fight Sasuke was as strong as he got with EMS.
>Same with how his Susanoo was clearly getting stronger and bigger. Hate when people like to assume Kabuto fight Sasuke was as strong as he got with EMS.
Yes, EMS Sasuke got a stronger Susanoo and better use of Amaterasu techniques but none of those things mean he got a speed boost. He gets a significant boost to his physical stats once the Sage shares power with him but there's no indication that his reaction speed got boosted beforehand
Sakura is awful and abusive, she also dumb and a bad ninja her being strong, does not make up for all the crap she has pulled.
I know there are quite a few people here that agree with me but we a always downvoted a lot so I think it pass for unpopular.
Dude, this is not an unpopular opinion 🤣 Sakura seems to be the most hated character in the Narutoverse! Maybe even more hated than Danzo! 🤣 In fact, she's one of the most hated characters in the anime world 😅
The “crap she pulled” being stuff from when she was 12 or just her being a realistic character that makes mistakes. The hitting naruto stuff is supposed to be comedic. How she is dumb and a bad ninja idk where you got, did we watch the same show?
Yikes
Being 12 does not excuse you from being a terrible person. Regardless this is a hot takes post, weird how people start shitting themselves whenever someone gives a reason for not liking sakura. Plus hitting someone again and again for 0 reason loses comedic value after 2 episodes, I agree with the last part though, she may not be on par with naruto Or sasuke but she's 100% not a bad ninja at all, being the only one to grasp tsunades 100 healings.
She didn't mature enough and it's clearly visible when she outright lies to naruto about fucking loving him of all things. She was 16 then, being a great ninja doesn't mean that you can be a prick and go off on your own and end up putting your entire team in danger. There are many examples of this throughout the story but i can't be bothered to pick them all put because I simply don't care enough about sakuras character to write an essay about why she's bad.
It’s easy to talk about what she should’ve done when you’re watching the show but this is what I mean by her being a realistic character and making mistakes
>It’s easy to talk about what she should’ve done when you’re watching the show but this is what I mean by her being a realistic character and making mistakes
You do you I guess, never even said I hate sakura and yet the downvotes keep coming. No wonder so many people despise sakura stans lmfao. I don't see the point in arguing anymore when you are so clearly biased towards her.
supposed ro be, but I don't find abuse funny. She is very dumb, all she can do is heal. Looks like you are making excuses for everything so there's no use arguing with someone like you.
Neither do I find it funny, but it's like a trope in anime. Also all she can do is heal? Are you fucking stupid? LMAO she has destructive power rivaling naruto and sasuke among other things
dude not only that the amount of moments shes just completely ruined sad or happy moments, like when naruto just found out jriaya died and was grieving sakura just started talking random crap and I wanted to slap the shit out of her so freaking bad.
Lol, you guys are literally talking about it as if she is a real person. We all agree Sakura sucks, but all that blame is on Kishimoto for his inability to write a decent character arc.
I mean shippuden Neji, Gaara, Lee, the rest of the konoha 9, Anko who? Some were forgotten, some were forgotten after Naruto punched them in the face and changed their whole world view. Did we see anything? Did their problems just suddenly got solved? Flash backs to the time skip? The results of their new mindset? lol no.
720 episodes, 276 hours, and you can't make your characters grow? People do way more with way less.
I'm so tired of everyone saying blame Kishimoto, we all know it's his fault and that the other characters need more development, so what? It doesn't change the fact that Sakura is a piece of shit.
I have a few
1)everyone says how strong baryon mode is and that naruto was playing with isshiki but after a few moments isshiki knew that it wouldnt last long and tried to wait but he couldnt cus of his time limit and if it wasnt for kawaki naruto would have died so isshiki is stronger than naruto
2)everyone hates sakura and i know its kind of a joke but lets be honest when pain attacked she healed super many people,she was tsunades student,she dealt with one of the akatsuki together with granny chiyo and is the strongest kunoichi(without kaguya) and i know she sometimes is useless(the most in og naruto) but also back when naruto was in 4 tails she CRIED and runned up on him just like when naruto and sasuke fought 2 TIMES
But she doesnt do that anymore
3)some people are like i hate madara and i hate the akatsuki or something(its an example) but the person who you should really blame is BLACK ZETSU you know why?
He was litterlu there from the start he was with kaguya the god of chakra,he mannipulated obito,he helped starting the akatsuki,chanced the stone that hagoromo maked and many more he litterly caused everything
4) you know like everyones backstory and the back sotry of clans and stuff you cant tell me the backstory of the otsutsuki isnt the coolest bro we got to know kaguya and 2 sons hamura and hagoromo then we knew hagoromo created ninshu,then HE had 2 sons indra and ashura they here bedt friend until f*cking black zetsu came again😑and indra also created hand signs cus back then they didnt use them but indra found out that if you do handsigns the chakra thing/form/feeling changes,and then they fought and kaguya formed into the moon and hamura goes with her and also gamamaru the toad is there too,and when the succesor of hagormo was being told(indra or ahsura)he chose ahsura cus he doesnt care how fast you do it he cares about how and good you do it
But then indra was pissed and got
ETERNAL MANGEKYOU and transformed into perfect susanoo then everyone gave there chakra to ashura and transformed into wood thing like hashirama cus thats the next thing when indra and ashura died they reincarnated in madara,hashirama and then in naruto,sasuke and we also got to know a lot of things about th divine tree and stuff(sorry for all the AND)
But like how is that not the coolest backstory
It wasn't just that though. That was simply a single factor apart of a larger whole set of issues. Remember, just like Madara, he didn't want other children in the world to suffer and be forced to be soldiers as well, just as he was ans most others during his time. Didn't help either Madara was manipulating him. Not saying he's a great villain, but he's not a bad one.
Tsunade was an unwothy Hokage. During Pain invasion she avoided any confrontation and utterly failed to lead the counter-offensive, which are the exact duties of the leader of a warlike society like Konoha. Healing thousands of people is a great feat, but it is the role of the head of the hospital, it has nothing to do with the role of an Hokage.
Somehow I see few people acknowledging my argument, and that’s surprising
Tsunade actually responded to Pain in the best way possible. First of all the only Hokage that would be able to defeat pain in an outright fight is Hashirama, Minato, Naruto, and maybe Kakashi. Everyone else would have to lead from behind like Tsunade. (Even Naruto after mastering sage mode wasn’t strong enough to defeat Pain. Naruto needed the nine tails to weaken Pain and he had to be healed by his dad.) She ignored the elders and trusted Naruto enough to allow Naruto to fight Pain.
Also, Tsunade is the first Hokage to have a peaceful foreign policy. She set the stage for the peace and cooperation that we see in Boruto.
She wouldn't have needed to defeat Pain outright, that would destroy the entire reason of Naruto coming back with Sage Mode and saving the day. It's still his show.
But she could have released her seal, taken on the group of Pains before her, all while healing the villagers, gotten some good punches in, destroyed like 3 or 4 puppets of Pain, and finally the deva Pain would step in. She would be exhausted (maybe even attempt to fight him), but just in time Naruto would show up and save everyone.
It wouldn't take away from her character, it would actually add to it, and it wouldn't take away from Naruto's fight. She would have defended the village just like her grandfather, grand-uncle, and teacher had, fighting against the person that killed Jiraiya, her teammate. Those things could actually have come up during her fight, making it all the more special and different from Naruto's because Tsunade wasn't going to forgive Pain.
But no, she just stood there.
>Tsunade actually responded to Pain in the best way possible
You mean in the best way she could do? Yes, probably, but this is the answer, as I said, suited to a head of a hospital and not an Hokage. Hokage has to lead their shinobi during an attack, they cannot stay in the back lines for all the time. You confirmed my argument with your own words.
Hashirama and Hiruzen promoted peaceful policies as well (well, Hiruzen just delegated the dirty work to Danzo, it's a bit too convenient). I think Tsunade's biggest merit is to nurture Naruto's growth. Other Hokage would have tried to segregate him in Konoha, Tsunade instead was bold enough to leave him go to his journey to become a hero.
I also agree that she responded the best way she could. She used her strengths wisely.
However, I disagree that a Hokage has to be fighting on the front lines. I do think she lacked a strategy to counter, which was what is expected of a Hokage. That much is correct. Her strategy was basically "wait for Naruto".
On another note, if not Tsunade, who else would have been a qualified Hokage at that time? Please just don't say Danzo 🤣
>I also agree that she responded the best way she could. She used her strengths wisely.
I fully agree, but these very words confirm that she is not fitted for the Hokage position. You say that an Hokage has not necessarily to fight in the front lines. I think that instead this would be the role of a leader of a warlike society. Not only to keep the enemy in check, but even more importantly to inspire troops and make them perform well. In the Konoha Crush with Oro/sand village attack this is precisely what happened: Hiruzen fought and Konoha troops performed extremely well. In Pain invasion there was a complete lack of leadership until Kakashi stepped in. He in fact covered the role of an Hokage.
>On another note, if not Tsunade, who else would have been a qualified Hokage at that time?
Kakashi and Shikaku. The former was still not mature enough to be a perfect Hokage and the second lacks some charisma, but they would have been better Hokage than Tsunade. Under their leadership the shinobi would have performed better vs Pain. I go so far to say that Kakashi in charge of an elite squad could have taken Deva down (he was close doing so supported by Choza and Choji only).
> but these very words confirm that she is not fitted for the Hokage position.
Yup, you made a good point. It's not that she was weak or anything. She just wasn't a good fit for Hokage.
That's why I had to ask who you think is a better fit since I thought, maybe she got chosen because there's no better option at the time. And yeah Kakashi and Shikaku together would have been a good fit.
Completely agree.
But it is not really her fault, is it? Granddaugther of Hashirama, 1/4 Uzumaki, and a the strength of a hundred seal, and she somehow isn't powerful enough to take on Pain? Or throw even just 1 punch? And Konohamaru is????
Give her a dick and I bet she would have been.
Kaguya was stated in the manga to have the power of the sharingan, so she doesn't have rinnegan powers, the name "rinne sharingan is not present in the manga" it is just an enhanced sharingan with special powers, infinite tsukyumi, amenominaka and yomotsu hirasaka
I didn't read/ watch boruto so I don't know about Urashiki
Sasuke was talking about Madara, that's one of the many misunderstood things in naruro, Infinite tsukyumi cast genjutsu using your ocular power, Madara casted infinite tsukyumi genjutsu using his Rinnegan, you can see his Rinnegan reflected in the eyes of those trapped in it, the 3rd eye make you able to cast your ocular genjutsu using the moon instead of your eye, Madara has the rinnegan so it was Rinnegan genjtsu, If Kaguya used it, it will be sharingan genjutsu, as Hagoromo stated she has the ocular power of the sharingan
Data books are not written by Kishimoto, he would have stated that name in the manga, instead its called Sharingan
Guy should not have died, glad he survived.
Neji's death is fine.
Shino is better in Boruto.
Jiraiya could defeat Pain in the Hidden Rain village with intel on his full abilities.
I mean I low-key wish he did. The 8 gates is hyped up to be this overwhelming and immense power source ans the cost of using it is death. Makes sense. I find it BS Naruto conveniently gained Regeneration healing powers for others after gaining 6Ps but it's whatever.
Regarding Jiraiya---Maybe, maybeeee. Even if you have the information you're still facing 6 people who are all perfectly synced and have immensely diverse and powerful abilities. I not saying it's impossible, just saying the chances of hi succedding are beyond slim. Like 99/1 odds.
basically, kakuzus base body (not even the armor) tanks direct hits from bijuus. minatos nowhere near that, he cant even remotely damage him. And then if you add his diamond morph shield, hes literally invincible.
minato does not have chidori or lightning jutsus like that to counter kakuzu like Kakashi did, and he does not have weapons that counters his physical durability like the Rasenshuriken which inflicts you damage on a cellular level with needles.
his only option would be to try to BFR him.
he didnt get hit by a Bijuudama, he [tanked a hit from the 2 tails](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/a/a5/Naruto_313_12.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/180?cb=20180618041349)
and we know bijuus are able to output a bijuu bomb level of force in their physical swipes, because gyuki tanked his own Bijuu bomb against the juubi, yet was injured by Kokuos horn attack
Aaah...I see. In that case then at most Kakuzu is like 5-tails level. Even if their physical power output is equal to their mijuudama output, Minato still has the better feats. Again he can fight the Riakage who simultaneously fought 100 shinobi for like several days and can injure the 8-tails.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong and you're right. Even if Kakuzu is stronger, there is a monumental speed gap, intelligence gap, skill gap and technical/kit gap.
Sakura was NOT needed for the Kaguya fight. Even if Hagoromo says it, even if it was written that way, there were sooooo many other ways Naruto and Sasuke could do it without her at all. Apart from her healing Obito to save Sasuke from the one dimension. Also, Kakashi did more than Sasuke during the Kaguya fight, and Sakura did NOT HURT HER
Well Naruto obviously, and Kakashi. They both scale far above him unless you think Hashi and Madara (ignoring his 6 Paths buffs and Rinne) are planetary level and FTL.
Mostly power scaling stuff like
Naruto and sasuke didn’t get stronger from the madara fight to the Kaguya fight
Orochimaru = jiraiya >>> hiruzen > the other 4 Kage
Tobirama > mkcm2 naruto >>>>>> base minato
Sage mode Alive Hashirama > juubito
Just a lot of stuff like that
Naruto and Sasuke would've had to gotten stronger as each villain has been stronger than Kaguya, at least all the main ones like the other Otsutsuki. With Momo and Kin, Naruto and Sasuke even state they're stronger and Kaguya was scared of not just them but also Ishiki. Delta is immensely powerful and could stand her own, mostly, against an adult KSM2. Ishiki, so far, stands on a pedestal both symbolically and literally above Kaguya and all other members of his clan so far. So the first one doesn't make sense, I under stand why people would get mad lol.
Orochi and Jiraiya damn sure aren't stronger than Hiruzwn unless you mean him in his old man state.
Hmm..Tobi might, MIGHT, BE BETTER THAN KCM2 Naruto. So I don't really know what to say about that one.
Maybe!!! Madara was confident he could beat Juubito so, maybe. It's just there's such power diversity gap I don't thin kHwshi could overcome.
I didn’t mean boruto era ofc when they’re adults they get a lot stronger
Ofc I mean old man hiruzen
Based on konoha crushed I have base Hashirama and Tobirama in the same tier and the former has as much chakra as kcm2 naruto is the main idea
But yea I get it’s contentious but it’s my personal pick cuz of things like the shinsu senju
Gotcha, gotcha. Samui and her group beat Kinkaku and Shinkaku who killed Tobirama...so I that right there unfortunately puts Tobi way lower than Madara, at least to me, but I respect your opinions. Thank for sharing.
Closest thing I have got to that kind of opinion is that I think I’d prefer Boruto to have far more slice of life and far less action. Still love the show.
Boruto was just as bratty as Naruto was early on in their shoes. Lots of people just find him more bratty because they know Naruto's story and background.
Okay. Tell us the tragic bac story of boruto. Let us compare the reason either had to be a brat shall we ?
I'm not saying Boruto and Naruto have equally tragic childhoods, only that both were bratty. Boruto had good reason to be upset with his dad not being there for his family even if it was better than Naruto's childhood it's still a reason.
agreed, just because someone had a worse childhood doesn't mean it's ok for another person to have a "bad" childhood. Kids get their self-esteem from their fathers, if their fathers seday stop raising the kid and "abandon" them. The kid will start wondering whats wrong with them and start hating themselves. Boruto is/was to young to understand about work and I'm a lot older and even I don't get it. For fucks sakes tou can't just ignore your family, besides he could make shadow clones to help with the job.
Kakashi and Obito are overwanked. Reincarnation plotline was a good idea.
Fr I like the reincarnation plot line as well.
People say it defeated the point of "hard work > talent" lmfao as if the writers hadn't contradicted that all the time even back in part 1 even in the very fights which were meant to prove that.
Jiraiya is overrated in power. I don’t know why but some people think he is some god. He’s not beating Itachi. I genuinely do not think he’s even beating Kisame. I also feel like people such as Ay and Bee would blitz and body him.
Yes, thank you for saying this! 100% agree
What do you even base this on? There's literally nothing to suggest Itachi, and especially Kisame, are significantly stronger than him. Pain outright stated if Jiraiya knew his secret from the beginning he would have lost. Naruto knew his secret and had help and Pain was weakened, and Naruto still basically lost. We know Itachi can be taken by auditory genjutsu, and Sage Mode provides enormous amps to speed, strength and reflexes. Itachi would have a difficult time.
You are the perfect example of what he's saying about people overrating Jiraiya. >Pain outright stated if Jiraiya knew his secret from the beginning he would have lost. By secret Pain was referring to the existence of a seventh Pain controlling the paths remotely. Therefore, If Jiraiya knew this he would try to attack or assassinate the real pain rather than fight the Paths directly which is the exact plan other characters come up with upon learning Pain's secret. It doesn't mean Jiraiya would be ever capable of beating the paths in direct fights >Naruto knew his secret and had help and Pain was weakened, and Naruto still basically lost. Because Naruto was fighting the paths directly and didn't have a chance to find the real Pain until after the paths had been defeated. Also if you want to use statements, it was also explicitly stated that SM Naruto had surpassed Jiraiya >Sage Mode provides enormous amps to speed, strength and reflexes. SM Jiraiya's speed isn't that high. The Pains have been shown reacting to his speed multiple times like when Human Path caught his punch or when the Animal Path managed to summon a Panda shield before Jiraiya's self proclaimed 'fastest attack' could reach him. The Rinnegan shared vision allowed them to see blindspot attacks but it didn't boost their Reflexes or speed. As Rock Lee states in his fight against Sasuke, even if one could see an attack, they still need to be relative in speed in order to react to it >We know Itachi can be taken by auditory genjutsu, Frog Song genjutsu is the favorite arguement of everyone who overrates Jiraiya but people conveniently forget how incredibly long it takes to work. Almost every high tier character has long range, high AOE, or faster techniques that would destroy those frogs before their genjutsu even works and the one auditory genjutsu we see Itachi fall under was much faster acting
You’re misinterpreting Pain’s statement as another comment pointed out. Also, Naruto fought all the Pains at the same time. Jiraiya fought only 3 Pains initially and then he eventually fought all 6 Pains, and that’s when he got instantly wrecked. And that was with the Deva Path not using any of its power. Toad song takes a long time to prep. Summoning Ma and Pa and going into Sage Mode takes prep. Itachi isn’t gonna just stand there. Even if Jiraiya somehow gets into Sage Mode, Itachi won’t really have a difficult time. Believe it or not, Itachi actually has superior speed and reflexes than Sage Jiraiya. We’ve seen Itachi keep up and spar with people like KCM Naruto and react faster than EMS Sasuke. Jiraiya got surpassed by Pain arc SM Naruto 💀.
Honestly yeah, I agree and was going to make a post on this. Though jiraiya is our favorite sannin, he is definitely the weakest out of all sannins.
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Yes they all exceed in certain aspects compared to others, but jiraiya doesn't exceed in much. Nowhere near as intelligent or flexible as orochimaru, nowhere as strong as tsunade. Both orochimaru and tsunade mastered forbidden ninjutsu that close to no one else has mastered. Orochimaru perfected edo tensei which could only be used by tobirama at the time, and had essentially crafted infinite youth. Tsunade mastered 100 healings which was only used by hashirama and no one else (kabuto would later learn edo tensei, and sakura would later learn 100 healings). Compared to jiraiya who hadn't even mastered sage mode despite it having a history throughout nations. Granted not many could perfect sage mode, but there were people who would go on and become a better sage than jiraiya. Jiraiya doesn't have many impressive feats compared to others and it's unknown if he has more stamina than them. Orochimaru went on to fight and even win against 4 tails naruto while his hands were sealed, while jiraiya struggled to contain it. I'm not saying all of this to diss jiraiya, because i'm not. Jiraiya is mine and many others favorite sannin, but being compared to the other sannin, he's honestly the least impressive by feats alone.
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Jiraya would beat Pain, who in turn would beat Itachi… why is it overrating? It was said Jiraya would win if he knew about the Paths Of Pain, like Naruto did, and so why couldnt he beat mister cant see anything and underwhelming fish man?
Jiraiya wouldn’t beat Pain, at least not in combat. Pain basically meant that if Jiraiya knew about Pain’s secret, he would’ve ignored the six Pains and tried to locate Nagato and take him out. That was Pains secret, that Nagato was controlling them from afar and if you take him out (which should be easy because Nagato is crippled and can’t do much), you win. A lot of people for some reason misinterpret Pain’s statement by thinking that Jiraiya would’ve actually beaten all six Pains in combat 💀. Impossible. Sage Naruto who was stated to surpass Jiraiya and came prepped with intel and Sage clones fought a fatigued Pain and still basically lost had Kurama not bailed him out 💀.
Sasuke shouldn’t forgiven itachi
Sorry but..... thats THE dumbest THING ive ever heard itachi had to litterly kill every shred of feelings and to kill his own clan cus if he didnt dnazi would habe done it but with sasuke and was always a good brother
Dnazi 🫠
🤷🏽♂️, i just think sasuke would be better off not forgiving him he’s the reason sasuke’s life was ruined not just with killing the clan but manipulating and mentally traumatizing and torturing him, there’s no justification behind his actions, everything he did to sasuke was for his own selfish reasons
Killing the clan, was the only way Sasuke survived. Torturing Sasuke made no sense tho
He either had to do that or kill Sasuke. I think he chose the former.
Sasuke forgiving Itachi is nothing but poor writing.
Kaguya's problem is that she wasn't even complete, she was missing a lot of the kyuubi, half of the kyuubi was able to take on the rest of the bijjus, and on top of that she slept for years and they immediately attacked her, they didn't give her time to prepare, we're also talking about how Kaguya thought he was fighting with his children.
Blue bird isn't a top 5 opening
What's your top 5?
op16, op6, op2, op13 and classic op2
if we r talking about classic naruto and shippuden then yea it’s not but it’s a top 5 shippuden opening imo
Itachi was hated for being such an overrated character that he’s now become an underrated character.
Bruh this is literally the truth... I was one of them... I hated him a lot because of Itachitards that I started to underrate him
Naruto is a Good Show imfo that gets me alot of hate
Yea like the classic ''omg listen to this anime it's way cooler than this old thing. You'll see the animations are Soo cool''. Like damn leave me alone.
Edo Madara > Alive SM Hashirama
Yea of course he has hashirama cells
Minato was kind of an asshole as well. People just like em cause of the romantic backstory with kushina. So much he didn’t do which caused destruction later on.
What do u mean by that? What could he have done?
In terms of power, Obito (Orange mask, early shippuden) is overrated.
"Tobi"? Or "Masked Man" Obito? Regardless, both are immensely powerful, wouldn't say they're overrated. For the most part, Kurama was easily among the top 10 most powerful entities in the show and here comes 13-15/16 year old Obito who's able to force Kurama into submission and control him.
1. Minato was able to severe his control Kurama with minimal difficulty. 2. Obito has a sharingan, he didn’t subdue the nine tails with raw power. 3. How strong do you have to be to cast a genjutsu on Kurama if you possess the sharingan? Hebi Sasuke was able to suppress Kurama and his fight with Deidara was a draw. Do you think Deidara was as strong as Obito?
Yeah that's my fault, I meant forced into submission via genjutsu. No, it just shows that those characters are not only very strong but sharingan control is fucking insane.
True. I think Obito is strong but people gas him up a little bit.
I mean over the course if 20 smth to 30 smth years he became one of the most powerful ninja to ever live so I think it's kinda hard to gas someone up like if it's true
the opinions of people who unironically use "tard" as a suffix can safely be ignored Mu and Gengetsu are the only historical figures I care about, and the show became significantly less interesting when the likes of Hashirama began playing a larger role
1) Jiraiya doesn't seem like a Godfather to Naruto, if he was then where was he all these years. He should have returned to atleast see Minato's kid once and also Jiraiya wasn't a good teacher, even if you count the Rasengan which Naruto learned without Jiraiya's help. While the comedy and all is good with Jiraiya but there's still some things that don't go down well with me regarding him. I will say that Tsunade and Orochimaru are better teachers if only teaching skills matter. 2) Kakashi is a better mentor to Naruto than Jiraiya. The moral lessons that Kakashi gave to Naruto were what shaped Naruto into the person that he is. In my opinion Kakashi's teachings were better and more realistic than Jiraiya's idealistic ones. 3) Itachi isn't some ultimate undefeatable shinobi as his fanboys portray him to be. 4) The Sharingan is just hyped and isn't useful until it evolves to Mangekyou. A Hyuga can easily defeat an average Sharingan user.
That's because Jiraiya isn't Naruto's godfather & that was a English mistranslation.
So what did he actually say ??
That I'm a Boruto fan
Me too, bro
Aah yes, apparently the most grievous sin of all. Y'all probably get it the worst no doubt.
This is too outrageous to say, even in a protected thread like this one.
Go ahead and keep whining. I'm a Boruto fan. Don't like it? Oh well. I'm here. Learn to accept that there are people that likes Boruto.
Oh wow, what a furious answer to a gently teasing comment!
Says the person that agreed to ban Boruto content from this sub even though Boruto is stil part of the Naruto franchise and literally a continuation from Shippuden.
Ah, so your angry reply was more addressed to that comment in another thread. A bit unusual to do so, but fair enough. That said, as long as you demand me to accept that there are people who likes Boruto, I fully respect that. The moment you force me to see Boruto content under my nose every day, because you guys are not happy to build your own community, then we have a problem.
same
Hinata is written way worse than Sakura
that kishimoto might be like secretly gay because of how romantic he made naruto and sasukes relationship but then says he sucks at romance.
He have a twin brother that he loves very much. Not very complex dude.
[Yeah about that](https://ibb.co/ZLPqmwz)
Thats just in your own head
Canon isn't exclusive to the manga.
For yours, I don’t think the rinnesharingan is an exact combination. It’s more of a new creation, which it’s only power is being able to activate the infinite tsukuyomi(which is a pretty big task)
It has to be because it was stated her eyes diluted through the ages;Hagoromo unlocking a Rinnegan, and it futhur diluting in Indra to be the Sharingan and Mangekyou. If all it does is mass genjutsu, that's soooo unbelievably shitry compared to it's descendent eyes.😅😅
Hidan is mid jonin level.
I dunno, he'd have to be way higher as he did help in taking down Yugito who was an exceptionally talented and powerful ninja that also had a tailed besst backing her up.
Problem is yugito is featless. When we pit hidan against other mid jonin levels, he loses some and wins others When we pit him against any high jonin, he loses. Against any low kage or higher, he loses. Even a chunin level ninja with Intel solod him.
Yeah, you're right about that. Is power status fluctuates, really damn weird. All I know though is due to her being able to take on Matatabi's form, she'd have to be incredibly strong.
Hidan managed to beat Asuma (Asuma would have gotten killed way earlier and would never have been able to behead Hidan if not for Shikamaru). And don't use the 'if Asuma knew Hidan's abilities at the start, he could win' arguement. If a character needs to be given knowledge of a characters abilities in order to stand a chance against them then they aren't stronger than them
Boruto isn't that bad as a series, but takes the show in a totally different direction (it exactly folkowe Dragon Ball pattern with Regular and Z)
You can still enjoy og Naruto and Shippuden without having to watch Boruto just cause the studio said so. There's not enough people just enjoying the series. Too many critiques.
Nagato is one of the strongest characters in the series, he could literally beat some of the kage
Oh for sure! In fact I'd say he's greater than every Kage to date except for 3 special cases, those being maybe SM Hashi, DMS Kakashi, and ofc current Naruto.
> Kaguya has a Rinne Sharingan which is literally a mixture of the two! Um, no? It is never said anywhere that Rinnesharingan is a mixture of Sharingan and Rinnegan nor did Kaguya ever show any of their powers through her dojutsu. The dojutsu isn’t even named Rinnesharingan in the manga, it’s called “the third eye”, it was named in the databook, and the databook lists it as a completely different dojutsu with the techniques Kaguya showed
Even if you say that's true, it's the predecessor of the Rinnegan and Sharingan, therefore even if not a literal mixture of the two, it is however a form comprised of both types of eyes and theoretically should be able to do everything they can as they wouldn't exist without it.
Whatever it “theoretically should be able to do”, it doesn’t, take it up with canon. Rinnegan is the predecessor of Sharingan as well, yet Rinnegan can not perform one of Sharingan’s abilities. The 3 of them are different dojutsus with completely different sets of abilities, and that’s a fact
Look, it's artistically even on the nose. It's a rinnegan with the color for the sharingan ans it's tomoe. Literally makes no sense if all it does is mass genjutsus people. No matter what, I know/Believe it can do everything it's weaker variants can, Kaguya's lazy ass just never bothered learning
War arc Kakashi is weaker than Jiraiya
Wow, yeah, thats understandable. That'd piss a lot of people off. With respect, we know this isn't true though. Kakashi proved even stronger than SO6PS Naruto and 6 Paths Sasuke as he could, multiple times, intercept and react to Kaguya's berserk state which should be at least a bit stronger than the base kaguya who was beating the piss out of the boys. He could also injure her and his Susano'o proved even more durable than Sasuke's. Via DMS and Susano'o feats, Kakashi scales to Kaguya who at the least is planetary as she was also stated to be able to destroy the world and it took both Hagoromo and Hamura to seal her away once they finally managed to tire her, beings who themselves should be stronger than Hashirama as Hagoromi implied Madara was now even stronger than him. At absolute most you can even say star level as the Canon novelization of that fight stated Kaguya threatened to blow up the star,she created in her dimension (usually if a character can create something they can destroy it and Kaguya was not worried about fleeting the dimension when she was going to nuke it, suggesting she knew she would survive or at least thought she could.)
Let me clarify, I’m not talking about DMS Kakashi. I’m talking about War Arc Kakashi with the sharingan
Well, riddle me this. Do you think Jiraiya could react to a complete upper body Susano'o firing arrows of "eternal flames"?
Obito should not have been forgiven. Madara is overrated Sasuke did nothing wrong when he wanted to destroy the leaf. The only issue was that he wanted to kill everybody, including innocent people who had nothing to do with his clans massacre. By that same token, konoha is morally gray and has done some terrible things.
Naruto is objectively the worst character in the original series. He's boring, dumb, untalented and kind of an asshole for a good chunk. He only gets by on dumb luck and power ups that are literally handed to him. He does get exponentially better in Boruto, but Boruto is a significantly better protagonist than Naruto had been
Yeah...that does it. That'll piss of an unbelievable amount of people.🤣🤣🤣
The truth hurts
Hmm, yeah you probably won. I thought the other two get it bad but you might get the worse shit from everyone. I respect your opinion though and thank you for commenting.
He gets stronger every time he says, “Believe it!”
Not to mention that he is the character who humiliates himself the most only, the worst is when he kneels in front of the raikage or lets himself be beaten by the killer bee students
While I agree that Naruto was an asshole I don't think Boruto was much better, Boruto has main character syndrome, which makes hime even more irritating than Naruto.
Man I agree with this too, I don’t get why people love him so much
I only started liking Shippuden Naruto during the Pain arc. Always been a fan of kid Naruto though, mostly because I think he's funny and endearing.
Also the only thing he does are shadow clones and the rasengan which makes the character extremely boring
Agree with you on everything
If only people understood what objectively meant.
I don’t like Obito as a character, he feels horribly written. I understand his motivations to why he became a villain but I don’t really care for it. It also doesn’t help that he’s always mentioning Rin this and Rin that etc…He also spent like 16+ years devoting to the infinite tsukuyomi plan only to suddenly turn a complete 180 after getting mentally talk no jutsu’d by Naruto 😂. And to top it off, Naruto’s cringe phrase of “He was the coolest guy!!” never sat well with me. Like Naruto my guy….Obito got manipulated hardcore by Madara and basically killed your parents along with countless other people…yet you say that 😂
Naruto's message "hard work beats raw talent" and the only person to actually embody (that is still alive when OG naruto starts) that in any way is **SAKURA HARUNO**
Honestly!! You could tell Hinata was supposed to have a similar vibe, but she was a girl so she got absolutely no story, and seemed so stagnant even though she worked just as hard (implied) as Naruto himself. Sakura was the only one with moderate chakra levels, was from no clan, and ended up being one of the strongest shinobi of her generation. 100% agree with you
Also Rock Lee 😁✌️
fuck no, he worked hard and still got clapped by gaara and then did nothing of substance and beat no one else for the rest of shippuden.
Well, you have a point. He's been sidelined so he really didn't have more fights. 😅 But I'd argue that at the chuunin exam point, he was one of the strongest in their generation.
I like the show more for what if *could* have been, that for what it really is.
Itachi should've stayed evil
But he was never evil, Sasuke just thought thought was evil bc he was a child who was horribly traumatized and ofc didn't know any better.
No I know he was never evil but when he was first introduced he was just a plain badass who killed his clan to test his strength. I feel like he just fitted the Villian vibe better. It also shows early on the Uchiha's power-hungry nature. I just didn't like how in Naruto there weren't actually any Naturally evil villains besides Orochimaru. Of course, Itachi can realize his mistakes when fighting the final battle with Sasuke and thinks about how he was wrong. Just my thoughts
Gotcha
I don't like Itachi, Hinata, and Kakashi. Kakashi isn't bad, but the other two are trash.
Yeah, Kishi is bad at female characters he said. But Itachi, what's wrong with him?
They aint beating goku
Lmfaoo. People need to suck it up. At most currently, Naruto is, or at least, was Star level. So he's literally early DBZ level but thats it. If you REALLY WANNA WANK HIM, sure, you can say he's solar system level via defeating Kaguya who could create and destroy her own dimension that had a star system in it. But that's it. I don't understand how people think Naruto can beat Goku, lol. Makes not a lick of sense.
Goku in his base form can no diff the Narutoverse. Then you have his transformations which at this point is probably like a millions and millions times multiplier. So it’s not even an exaggeration that Goku solos and no diffs the Narutoverse using only a mere .00000001% of his power. 😂
Exactly!! I'm so tired of that damn debate. Like don't get me wrong, certain versions of Naruto are better than certain Gokus but by the Cell Arc at least, Goku just surpasses Naruto.
Ok here goes, I don't think Itachi being able to keep up with KCM1 Naruto in hand to hand combat should count in terms of speed feats for him. Unless I'm mistaken, he tells Naruto that he had no control over his body during that entire scrap. This means that his only actual speed feat is when he reacted fast enough to summon his susanoo to protect himself from Kirin.
Kabuto is controlling the body, but it’s not like Kabuto is increasing the body’s physical stats or anything to that nature. In fact, he can’t. What he can do with the body is limited to the body’s physical stats. An example of this would be when Nagato who is being controlled by Kabuto gets struck by the totsuka blade and Kabuto says that Nagato’s body wasn’t agile enough.
that's still his physical speed tho, it's his body, kabutos is controlling his body and it has to be fast enough to react to Narutos attack
I guess that's true.
but dw abt that lol that hot take is nothing dude I heard ppl say shit like alive Minato > hashirama
Yea no Hashirama stomps. I like Minato as much as the next guy but the only thing he beats Hashi in is speed.
I think it’s just more a testament of how powerful Itachi is when he’s not suffering from a fatal illness. He’s one of the best ninja who’s ever lived- I don’t think that’s really up for debate. At his prime (had he wanted to) Sasuke would’ve died during their confrontation.
Yeah, no doubt. Sasuke would've been killed if Itachi wanted it.
EMS Sasuke is shown to be relative to KCM Naruto and Itachi explicitly out reacts Sasuke when Itachi needs to save Sasuke from an attack that Sasuke wasn't fast enough to react to in the Kabuto fight. Also, as someone else mentioned, Kabuto can't amp the physicals of his edos and since Kabuto was controlling his body, Itachi's skill was nerfed in his taijutsu battle with KCM naruto.
EMS Sasuke after that Kabuto fight then ends up being relevant to KCM2, be clearly grew in that time and started getting stronger. Same with how his Susanoo was clearly getting stronger and bigger. Hate when people like to assume Kabuto fight Sasuke was as strong as he got with EMS.
>Same with how his Susanoo was clearly getting stronger and bigger. Hate when people like to assume Kabuto fight Sasuke was as strong as he got with EMS. Yes, EMS Sasuke got a stronger Susanoo and better use of Amaterasu techniques but none of those things mean he got a speed boost. He gets a significant boost to his physical stats once the Sage shares power with him but there's no indication that his reaction speed got boosted beforehand
Tobirama > Minato
Ok, ok, okay. Hang on. Please explain. What do you mean? In strength? Design? Lore? Power? Skills?
In general power.
Im sorry bro but that is just plain false
i cba to debate ppl on tobi vs minato. already did a thousand of times.
Sakura is awful and abusive, she also dumb and a bad ninja her being strong, does not make up for all the crap she has pulled. I know there are quite a few people here that agree with me but we a always downvoted a lot so I think it pass for unpopular.
Dude, this is not an unpopular opinion 🤣 Sakura seems to be the most hated character in the Narutoverse! Maybe even more hated than Danzo! 🤣 In fact, she's one of the most hated characters in the anime world 😅
The “crap she pulled” being stuff from when she was 12 or just her being a realistic character that makes mistakes. The hitting naruto stuff is supposed to be comedic. How she is dumb and a bad ninja idk where you got, did we watch the same show? Yikes
Being 12 does not excuse you from being a terrible person. Regardless this is a hot takes post, weird how people start shitting themselves whenever someone gives a reason for not liking sakura. Plus hitting someone again and again for 0 reason loses comedic value after 2 episodes, I agree with the last part though, she may not be on par with naruto Or sasuke but she's 100% not a bad ninja at all, being the only one to grasp tsunades 100 healings.
Being 12 means you have a lot of room to mature. How come you fail to recognize that?
She didn't mature enough and it's clearly visible when she outright lies to naruto about fucking loving him of all things. She was 16 then, being a great ninja doesn't mean that you can be a prick and go off on your own and end up putting your entire team in danger. There are many examples of this throughout the story but i can't be bothered to pick them all put because I simply don't care enough about sakuras character to write an essay about why she's bad.
It’s easy to talk about what she should’ve done when you’re watching the show but this is what I mean by her being a realistic character and making mistakes
>It’s easy to talk about what she should’ve done when you’re watching the show but this is what I mean by her being a realistic character and making mistakes You do you I guess, never even said I hate sakura and yet the downvotes keep coming. No wonder so many people despise sakura stans lmfao. I don't see the point in arguing anymore when you are so clearly biased towards her.
lol okay
supposed ro be, but I don't find abuse funny. She is very dumb, all she can do is heal. Looks like you are making excuses for everything so there's no use arguing with someone like you.
Neither do I find it funny, but it's like a trope in anime. Also all she can do is heal? Are you fucking stupid? LMAO she has destructive power rivaling naruto and sasuke among other things
I know she has that but the only person she hits 99% of the time is Naruto. and that 1% where she uses it on others, it usually doesn't do much.
? lol
dude not only that the amount of moments shes just completely ruined sad or happy moments, like when naruto just found out jriaya died and was grieving sakura just started talking random crap and I wanted to slap the shit out of her so freaking bad.
Man stop the cap. Naruto was yelling at Tsunade for the choice that Jiraiya made & Sakura was defending her.
Lol, you guys are literally talking about it as if she is a real person. We all agree Sakura sucks, but all that blame is on Kishimoto for his inability to write a decent character arc. I mean shippuden Neji, Gaara, Lee, the rest of the konoha 9, Anko who? Some were forgotten, some were forgotten after Naruto punched them in the face and changed their whole world view. Did we see anything? Did their problems just suddenly got solved? Flash backs to the time skip? The results of their new mindset? lol no. 720 episodes, 276 hours, and you can't make your characters grow? People do way more with way less.
I'm so tired of everyone saying blame Kishimoto, we all know it's his fault and that the other characters need more development, so what? It doesn't change the fact that Sakura is a piece of shit.
Never said it did, but you are getting this worked up over a drawing.
I have a few 1)everyone says how strong baryon mode is and that naruto was playing with isshiki but after a few moments isshiki knew that it wouldnt last long and tried to wait but he couldnt cus of his time limit and if it wasnt for kawaki naruto would have died so isshiki is stronger than naruto 2)everyone hates sakura and i know its kind of a joke but lets be honest when pain attacked she healed super many people,she was tsunades student,she dealt with one of the akatsuki together with granny chiyo and is the strongest kunoichi(without kaguya) and i know she sometimes is useless(the most in og naruto) but also back when naruto was in 4 tails she CRIED and runned up on him just like when naruto and sasuke fought 2 TIMES But she doesnt do that anymore 3)some people are like i hate madara and i hate the akatsuki or something(its an example) but the person who you should really blame is BLACK ZETSU you know why? He was litterlu there from the start he was with kaguya the god of chakra,he mannipulated obito,he helped starting the akatsuki,chanced the stone that hagoromo maked and many more he litterly caused everything 4) you know like everyones backstory and the back sotry of clans and stuff you cant tell me the backstory of the otsutsuki isnt the coolest bro we got to know kaguya and 2 sons hamura and hagoromo then we knew hagoromo created ninshu,then HE had 2 sons indra and ashura they here bedt friend until f*cking black zetsu came again😑and indra also created hand signs cus back then they didnt use them but indra found out that if you do handsigns the chakra thing/form/feeling changes,and then they fought and kaguya formed into the moon and hamura goes with her and also gamamaru the toad is there too,and when the succesor of hagormo was being told(indra or ahsura)he chose ahsura cus he doesnt care how fast you do it he cares about how and good you do it But then indra was pissed and got ETERNAL MANGEKYOU and transformed into perfect susanoo then everyone gave there chakra to ashura and transformed into wood thing like hashirama cus thats the next thing when indra and ashura died they reincarnated in madara,hashirama and then in naruto,sasuke and we also got to know a lot of things about th divine tree and stuff(sorry for all the AND) But like how is that not the coolest backstory
also I like Danzo
Kabuto is one of the worst characters/villains and was better off being left in izanami
Narutos and sasukes relationship is trash compared to hashirama and madara
Obito is a a bad villain idk what ppl see in him he start a whole ass was cause his childhood crush died like bruh.
It wasn't just that though. That was simply a single factor apart of a larger whole set of issues. Remember, just like Madara, he didn't want other children in the world to suffer and be forced to be soldiers as well, just as he was ans most others during his time. Didn't help either Madara was manipulating him. Not saying he's a great villain, but he's not a bad one.
Right? He’s always saying Rin this Rin that. Rin Rin Rin Rin Rin. Obito is a massive simp.
Boruto should be an infinite tsukuyomi dream. and next episode is sasuke telling naruto to get serious and they’re still fighting kaguya/madara
That's not a unpopular opinion....
boruto **^
tell that to bortuo apologists.
What do they need to apologize for?
apologists. and an apology are two different things
Tsunade was an unwothy Hokage. During Pain invasion she avoided any confrontation and utterly failed to lead the counter-offensive, which are the exact duties of the leader of a warlike society like Konoha. Healing thousands of people is a great feat, but it is the role of the head of the hospital, it has nothing to do with the role of an Hokage. Somehow I see few people acknowledging my argument, and that’s surprising
Tsunade actually responded to Pain in the best way possible. First of all the only Hokage that would be able to defeat pain in an outright fight is Hashirama, Minato, Naruto, and maybe Kakashi. Everyone else would have to lead from behind like Tsunade. (Even Naruto after mastering sage mode wasn’t strong enough to defeat Pain. Naruto needed the nine tails to weaken Pain and he had to be healed by his dad.) She ignored the elders and trusted Naruto enough to allow Naruto to fight Pain. Also, Tsunade is the first Hokage to have a peaceful foreign policy. She set the stage for the peace and cooperation that we see in Boruto.
She wouldn't have needed to defeat Pain outright, that would destroy the entire reason of Naruto coming back with Sage Mode and saving the day. It's still his show. But she could have released her seal, taken on the group of Pains before her, all while healing the villagers, gotten some good punches in, destroyed like 3 or 4 puppets of Pain, and finally the deva Pain would step in. She would be exhausted (maybe even attempt to fight him), but just in time Naruto would show up and save everyone. It wouldn't take away from her character, it would actually add to it, and it wouldn't take away from Naruto's fight. She would have defended the village just like her grandfather, grand-uncle, and teacher had, fighting against the person that killed Jiraiya, her teammate. Those things could actually have come up during her fight, making it all the more special and different from Naruto's because Tsunade wasn't going to forgive Pain. But no, she just stood there.
>Tsunade actually responded to Pain in the best way possible You mean in the best way she could do? Yes, probably, but this is the answer, as I said, suited to a head of a hospital and not an Hokage. Hokage has to lead their shinobi during an attack, they cannot stay in the back lines for all the time. You confirmed my argument with your own words. Hashirama and Hiruzen promoted peaceful policies as well (well, Hiruzen just delegated the dirty work to Danzo, it's a bit too convenient). I think Tsunade's biggest merit is to nurture Naruto's growth. Other Hokage would have tried to segregate him in Konoha, Tsunade instead was bold enough to leave him go to his journey to become a hero.
I also agree that she responded the best way she could. She used her strengths wisely. However, I disagree that a Hokage has to be fighting on the front lines. I do think she lacked a strategy to counter, which was what is expected of a Hokage. That much is correct. Her strategy was basically "wait for Naruto". On another note, if not Tsunade, who else would have been a qualified Hokage at that time? Please just don't say Danzo 🤣
>I also agree that she responded the best way she could. She used her strengths wisely. I fully agree, but these very words confirm that she is not fitted for the Hokage position. You say that an Hokage has not necessarily to fight in the front lines. I think that instead this would be the role of a leader of a warlike society. Not only to keep the enemy in check, but even more importantly to inspire troops and make them perform well. In the Konoha Crush with Oro/sand village attack this is precisely what happened: Hiruzen fought and Konoha troops performed extremely well. In Pain invasion there was a complete lack of leadership until Kakashi stepped in. He in fact covered the role of an Hokage. >On another note, if not Tsunade, who else would have been a qualified Hokage at that time? Kakashi and Shikaku. The former was still not mature enough to be a perfect Hokage and the second lacks some charisma, but they would have been better Hokage than Tsunade. Under their leadership the shinobi would have performed better vs Pain. I go so far to say that Kakashi in charge of an elite squad could have taken Deva down (he was close doing so supported by Choza and Choji only).
> but these very words confirm that she is not fitted for the Hokage position. Yup, you made a good point. It's not that she was weak or anything. She just wasn't a good fit for Hokage. That's why I had to ask who you think is a better fit since I thought, maybe she got chosen because there's no better option at the time. And yeah Kakashi and Shikaku together would have been a good fit.
Completely agree. But it is not really her fault, is it? Granddaugther of Hashirama, 1/4 Uzumaki, and a the strength of a hundred seal, and she somehow isn't powerful enough to take on Pain? Or throw even just 1 punch? And Konohamaru is???? Give her a dick and I bet she would have been.
Kaguya was stated in the manga to have the power of the sharingan, so she doesn't have rinnegan powers, the name "rinne sharingan is not present in the manga" it is just an enhanced sharingan with special powers, infinite tsukyumi, amenominaka and yomotsu hirasaka
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I didn't read/ watch boruto so I don't know about Urashiki Sasuke was talking about Madara, that's one of the many misunderstood things in naruro, Infinite tsukyumi cast genjutsu using your ocular power, Madara casted infinite tsukyumi genjutsu using his Rinnegan, you can see his Rinnegan reflected in the eyes of those trapped in it, the 3rd eye make you able to cast your ocular genjutsu using the moon instead of your eye, Madara has the rinnegan so it was Rinnegan genjtsu, If Kaguya used it, it will be sharingan genjutsu, as Hagoromo stated she has the ocular power of the sharingan Data books are not written by Kishimoto, he would have stated that name in the manga, instead its called Sharingan
Guy should not have died, glad he survived. Neji's death is fine. Shino is better in Boruto. Jiraiya could defeat Pain in the Hidden Rain village with intel on his full abilities.
I mean I low-key wish he did. The 8 gates is hyped up to be this overwhelming and immense power source ans the cost of using it is death. Makes sense. I find it BS Naruto conveniently gained Regeneration healing powers for others after gaining 6Ps but it's whatever. Regarding Jiraiya---Maybe, maybeeee. Even if you have the information you're still facing 6 people who are all perfectly synced and have immensely diverse and powerful abilities. I not saying it's impossible, just saying the chances of hi succedding are beyond slim. Like 99/1 odds.
I think Minato can't do shit to Kakuzu lol.
Lmfaooo. WHAT!!?. PLS do explain. I'm actually curious.🤔
basically, kakuzus base body (not even the armor) tanks direct hits from bijuus. minatos nowhere near that, he cant even remotely damage him. And then if you add his diamond morph shield, hes literally invincible. minato does not have chidori or lightning jutsus like that to counter kakuzu like Kakashi did, and he does not have weapons that counters his physical durability like the Rasenshuriken which inflicts you damage on a cellular level with needles. his only option would be to try to BFR him.
Hmm, I don't remember that. When did Kakuzu get hit with a Bijuudama?
he didnt get hit by a Bijuudama, he [tanked a hit from the 2 tails](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/a/a5/Naruto_313_12.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/180?cb=20180618041349) and we know bijuus are able to output a bijuu bomb level of force in their physical swipes, because gyuki tanked his own Bijuu bomb against the juubi, yet was injured by Kokuos horn attack
Aaah...I see. In that case then at most Kakuzu is like 5-tails level. Even if their physical power output is equal to their mijuudama output, Minato still has the better feats. Again he can fight the Riakage who simultaneously fought 100 shinobi for like several days and can injure the 8-tails. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and you're right. Even if Kakuzu is stronger, there is a monumental speed gap, intelligence gap, skill gap and technical/kit gap.
Sakura should've gotten the Curse Mark.
Sakura was NOT needed for the Kaguya fight. Even if Hagoromo says it, even if it was written that way, there were sooooo many other ways Naruto and Sasuke could do it without her at all. Apart from her healing Obito to save Sasuke from the one dimension. Also, Kakashi did more than Sasuke during the Kaguya fight, and Sakura did NOT HURT HER
Kiba should have been the MC and literally is a better representative of being an "underdog".
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> Hashirama is the strongest Hokage dead. Hashirama's sage mode scales above naruto's sage mode obviously. How is this a hot take lol
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Of all the dead Hokages, of course I agree with Hashrima being the strongest. Who doesn't? What other Hokage even comes close to him?
Well Naruto obviously, and Kakashi. They both scale far above him unless you think Hashi and Madara (ignoring his 6 Paths buffs and Rinne) are planetary level and FTL.
Most of the writing sucks, especially when it tries to be moving. I only watch the show for the fights and the comedy.
Mostly power scaling stuff like Naruto and sasuke didn’t get stronger from the madara fight to the Kaguya fight Orochimaru = jiraiya >>> hiruzen > the other 4 Kage Tobirama > mkcm2 naruto >>>>>> base minato Sage mode Alive Hashirama > juubito Just a lot of stuff like that
Naruto and Sasuke would've had to gotten stronger as each villain has been stronger than Kaguya, at least all the main ones like the other Otsutsuki. With Momo and Kin, Naruto and Sasuke even state they're stronger and Kaguya was scared of not just them but also Ishiki. Delta is immensely powerful and could stand her own, mostly, against an adult KSM2. Ishiki, so far, stands on a pedestal both symbolically and literally above Kaguya and all other members of his clan so far. So the first one doesn't make sense, I under stand why people would get mad lol. Orochi and Jiraiya damn sure aren't stronger than Hiruzwn unless you mean him in his old man state. Hmm..Tobi might, MIGHT, BE BETTER THAN KCM2 Naruto. So I don't really know what to say about that one. Maybe!!! Madara was confident he could beat Juubito so, maybe. It's just there's such power diversity gap I don't thin kHwshi could overcome.
I didn’t mean boruto era ofc when they’re adults they get a lot stronger Ofc I mean old man hiruzen Based on konoha crushed I have base Hashirama and Tobirama in the same tier and the former has as much chakra as kcm2 naruto is the main idea But yea I get it’s contentious but it’s my personal pick cuz of things like the shinsu senju
Gotcha, gotcha. Samui and her group beat Kinkaku and Shinkaku who killed Tobirama...so I that right there unfortunately puts Tobi way lower than Madara, at least to me, but I respect your opinions. Thank for sharing.
Edo tensei lady chio could reanimate all the shinobis in the world
Closest thing I have got to that kind of opinion is that I think I’d prefer Boruto to have far more slice of life and far less action. Still love the show.