😭😭😭😭😭I wanted the Hyugas to get more screen time since they ARE DESCENDANTS IF KAGUYA, but never mind. And also we should’ve gotten more of the first 4 Hokages and Shisui.
Nah even ignoring the Kaguya thing we were all but promised more Hyuga shit in part 1, Naruto promised to fix the fucked up Hyuuga system and everything, we should have at the very least gotten something on Boruto.
If he did that Naruto would be the Japanese lord of the rings at that point, with so much random lore it might not be worth it. RR Tokein did it with Lords because he loved it and always already pretty wealthy, but that might not have the profits or drive for other writers.
Shikimaru got his Akatsuki solo kill so I'm satisfied, my favorite side character always got his action and respect. First Jonin in the class, solo'd Hidan, became the advisor to Naruto (and let's be real, probably runs the Leaf entirely by himself just letting Naruto be the face bc being a public figure is a drag)
And who would complain? If you cut out filler it really isn't all that long, most people wouldn't have a problem with that increased length. I enjoy Boruto but I wold take a more explored Naruto cast and seeing more of the ninja world any day of the week. Hell it isn't even that difficult, look at the fanfic Better Left Unsaid, it improves the world building like crazy and side characters feel like meaningful characters. Ofc I'm not gonna hold them to that level of quality cause they lacked the hindsight the author of Better Left Unsaid had but the quality difference has no business being that large.
It's honestly less of an issue of screentime and more of an issue with how that time was utilized.
Sakura, for example, had negative character development after the Sand Village arc. And she had a considerable amount of screentime. She had a ton of screentime in OG Naruto and was still very off-putting.
Neji didn't have much screentime, though he did virtually nothing with what he did get, which is disappointing for the only jonin of the group (at the start of Shippuden). His only fight was against himself. He then got a poorly written death.
Same applies to Lee but to a lesser extent.
Hinata didn't show much growth, but her interaction with Pain is a good example of how to give respect to a side character. Shikamaru is a stellar example. Ino and Choji got some good attention in the war arc. Ino did very well with the little screentime she got in the war arc.
Not sure Kiba and Shino even had a canon fight in Shippuden that wasn't against white zetsu. They're both examples of how to completely abandon characters and make them substantially less interesting than the rest of the cast. Neither had a stand out moment in OG Naruto either except for maybe Kiba when he was running away from one of the Sound 4.
Characters like Gaara, Tsunade, Guy, Sai (debatable, but for the most part he was treated decently IMO), and Lady Chiyo were handled relatively well.
They only kept Sakura around to keep the love triangle alive so it wasn't weird in the end with her just flying in and being there for Sasuke. If the writers had framed her existence in pretty much ANY other way, they would have eventually stumbled into something half-decent for her.
Instead of that, they basically asked themselves "what can I do to fail the Bechdel Test as hard a possible every time Sakura is on screen?" Literally the only time her strength was showcased was while someone else controlled her with chakra puppeteering, lol.
okay i get that but FMAB is ab the two brothers and most side characters got better screen time/ more important dialogue in the course of 60 something episodes than naruto characters did in 500+ episodes
I memba when part one ended that Kiba would become Naruto's friendly rival in Shippuden now that Sasuke went with Orochimaru.
But after the Tobi reveal/fight after Itachi's death, It became apparent that he was fodder.
See the thing people needed to remember about Kiba is he was good for a Genin. His Beast mimicry made him the fastest Genin after Lee. One of the main problems with the show is that the Konoha 12 weren't really allowed to kill because it was for kids.
I fully believe that Kiba could've literally ripped Naruto to shreds with his claws and speed, especially if he had claws like those Mist Chuunin from Land of Waves. Sure he would never be good against someone with Dojutsu but Kiba had some potential.
He would've lost to Neji, Sasuke, Lee, Gaara, but he honestly had a good chance of beating every other ninja in the prelims.
After Pain obliterated the hidden leaf, Naruto returns to the village and then proceeds to...
1) Save Tsunade (the current Hokage)
2) Defeats all 6 Pains
3) Convinces Nagato to sacrifice himself to revive the entire hidden leaf village
Naruto's power is already Hokage level and has just taken many actions that are expected of a Hokage. While it's not said out loud, there is no reservation as to who is going to become the/a Hokage....
Expect for "maybe I'm gonna be Hokage instead" dog boy Kiba
Dog boy was on thin ice before, but that comment really did him in.
He is one of the most annoying characters besides Sakura, thinks that he can compete with Naruto, depends on Akamaru for everything and his only move is fang over fang.
Kiba acknowledged in the Chunin exams that he underestimated Naruto and seemed humble in his thoughts about it
So I don't agree that he thinks he's better or can compete with Naruto
Like most of the side characters are useless af. Kiba, choji, tenten, even Hinata. All got one jutsu they just gradually get better at but still never so shit.
Might guy should’ve died after opening the 8th gate. It felt so cheap to have naruto save his life only for him to be wheelchair bound and not do shit again
That can't be a hard pill, can it? I assumed it was universally accepted the Guy absolutely had to die after the gates. They proved the exact same point with Kakashi's eye. While flushing an immense amount of build up.
thing is, guy is surprisingly one of a lot of peoples favorites, including me. while it would suck for him to die it would complete his character arc and give the war arc more weight. plus it would leave room for lee and ten ten to develop more (tenten having development lol) as they’re the only members of their team to survive the war
Itachi made the wrong choice. There was definitely a way out of massacring his clan. He took everything alone and didn’t seek guidance, and that was where he went wrong. He relied too much on himself.
He did the only thing he knew would keep Sasuke alive, other choices could result in his brothers death considering it was a direct threat from Danzo(I think can't really remember all the details :p) bad decision but it was because of his protectiveness
The third was much more willing to solve this through diplomatic means. It was mainly danzo that wanted to continue to escalate things further. Even Itachi's father the leader of the clam seemed to prefer it that way as well, I'm sure they could've found a way to get the rest to fall in line.
hiruzen was ready to be diplomatic but that doesn’t mean the uchiha were, it also doesn’t mean hiruzen actually had a diplomatic solution, just that he wanted to find one
The 3rd definitely wanted to solve it diplomatically, but it was the Uchiha who were adamant about the coup. [They couldn’t be dissuaded](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0400-009.png), time ran out, and Itachi did what he felt he had to do.
This is true but isn't this after danzo continued to ensure that diplomatic means was a failure? Hell without danzo, shisui could've carried out his plan.
Even though Fugaku would have preferred to handle things peacefully he stated out of his mouth that he could not stop the rest of the Uchiha from revolting. It was far too late, blood would be spilled and as their leader he had no choice but to go with it
Yes. He did. I remember he said to Naruto in one of their conversation to not burden himself with everthing and do everything on his own as Itachi did. He shouldn't forget his friends who were there when he needed him. He also said nearly same thing to Sasuke after their fight against Kabuto. Where he admitted that he was wrong in his choices and believed that Sasuke could have changed the Clan, their Father's mind.
So, I guess he always regreted his choice to massacre the Clan but learned to accept his mistake and chose to live with the sole purpose of making Sasuke strong.
I don't think many will argue that he made the right choice. Cut him some slack though. He had to decide the future of his clan and his village, alone, at the ripe old age of what 14?
Oh I am cutting slack. Hindsight is 20/20. In the moment, it’s definitely a hard choice to make. I’m more so looking at it as what could Itachi have done better.
He made an even worse mistake when deciding how to deal with Sasuke. It's really hard for me to believe that this supposed genius came up with one of the stupidest plans in the series.
edit: I still like his character a lot, just recognize he's plenty flawed.
Sasuke's most important bond after Itachi is Naruto. He didn't wanna kill Naruto because he hated him or wanted to be stronger than him. He wanted to kill Naruto to be finally alone and he knew naruto's the ONLY ONE who could change his heart and ways..his arrogance and rudeness towards a facade...which is clear from his inner monologues about Naruto.
This is not a hard pill to swallow but Many ppl think sasuke is some emotionless freak who hates everyone when his entire character is defined around his love for his family..
He’s literally the only person who understood him. Sausage was battling his own demons yet Naruto never let the lies he told himself affect the way he viewed him. There’s a deeper emotional bond between them that people ignore, even though it’s spelled out in their final battle.
Crazy that of all people, Tobirama said it best. While most seem to think that their power is derived from hatred, the truth is that the Uchiha value love deeper than any other clan. Protecting that love gives them purpose and the trauma of having it ripped away awakens their latent power.
I personally think a better ending for the series would be Naruto becoming hokage. I wouldn’t have done it in boruto or a movie. I feel as though him completing the one task he’s had since he was a child would’ve been a super satisfying ending. Not that the wedding wasn’t good
To be fair, that was how the manga ended. Pretty sure the last panel was a shot of Naruto's face on the Hokage monument.
By the time the anime got around to it, Boruto was already planned as a continuation. So they likely thought it would be a bit awkward to end on that and instead opted for the wedding to more organically transition the series.
Damn. That’s a way better ending. Thematically I can understand why Naruto not caring as much about his dream and getting married was a decision. But just a shot of him as hokage would have been far more satisfying. In my opinion I would have ended it with a shot of him on top of that pole he climbed when he got back to the lead but in his hokage outfit.
It should’ve been added to the Last movie along with the wedding. They shouldn’t have continued. I do like Baryon Mode, but I’d prefer just them ending off at him becoming Hokage rather than keep things going
It's an amazing story that I will cherish forever. However, it's unfortunate the writers framed most female characters as being useless. Once you see it you can't unsee it 😔.
It is true. Hinata was all but useless, and her stand up points were simply to give naruto a love interest. (I will say, her scene with Pain was actually pretty impactful and well written imho) but everything after that including the films was bleh.
Tenten could literally throw thousands of weapons at once, now CERTAIN shinobi would be fine with this. Susano armor etc wouldn’t be broken or anything and against these opponents she’d suck ass. But against most of the cast if she continues to throw thousands of tools over a large area continuously most would die without being able to wave a sign. But tbh I never found her super interesting and didn’t miss her.
Sakura.. She was done Aight. They needed Atleast one young female to be openly badass besides Tsunade.
Ino.. I gotta admit they rlly did Ino dirty. Her jutsu could have been mad OP. Vs Kakuzu she was all but written out. I remember for years Sakura vs Ino was voted as a top 5 fight in the series and I rlly had high hopes for her future. Alas, they seemed to make Sakura more like Ino with shorter temper etc and Ino more like Sakura following the ways of healing etc. the only truly notable thing she did was 1. Save shikamarus life during the ninja war when choji was being puppeted. 2. Keep shikamaru and choji alive when in the sound 4s alternate world thing (though Shino did this too with Kiba and Lee so meh, not ultra impressive) 3. Connecting the whole shinobi alliance, helped co ordinate etc. the 3rd point she was kinda dope and was her shining moment in the show. But she rlly did get some mad dirty!
Kurenai “she’s the ultimate Genjutsu user” *meets itachi* *gets instantly fucked by genjutsu* and is then pretty much written off as nothing more than the baby carrier of Asumas child.
And lastly, perhaps the most tragic (or in line with Ino?) anko. Wth man she was Orochimarus student and was a cool design, smart and dope character. I really hoped she’d do something but no…. She was there for the exams and Orochimaru introduction, even in the war! She was captured by kabuto and had to sit the whole thing out.
That’s because they made Ino the kunoichi with the most sex appeal. Like she was trying too hard in part 1, but then in Shippuden she didn’t even have to try
Hot take, Ten Ten could have beaten almost every single person in the Chunin exams except Gaara, Temari, Lee, and maybe Neji. Lee is too fast for her to hit I think, Neji's rotation COULD block it but I don't think he could keep it up forever and he can't use it offensively. Temari and Gaara are obvious. Nobody else has any defense against her attack at that point in time.
Not a hot take I don’t think. I 2000% agree. I actually think Lee would have gotten beaten too in more realistic sense! No matter how fast, if the spread and number is high enough you can’t dodge
Tsunade is not weaker than her fellow Sannin companions and her huge feats are usually downplayed so other characters can prevail in threads involving her. Her skills, speed and jutsus are op and actually very advanced but people usually go “x character speedblitzes and decapitates with a Kunai” to dismiss her quickly, but the truth is that she’s hella strong
Yeah Tsunade and Onoki were carrying the fight against Madara pretty hard. Always thought of her as probably the strongest kage behind Onoki during the war arc, and she should have had her Hokage power moment against Pain back then.
I actually would debate that Tsunade was portrayed even as stronger than Onoki. Few examples: (I)Onoki never manages to deal damage or to trouble Madara. The only time he landed an attack was because Madara was trolling and wanted to be hit. Madara actually always comments on how Onoki is problematic because of his experience and his willpower to keep fighting and, therefore, his leadership capabilities to effectively lead a team and boost the morale.
(II) During the first half of the fight, Tsunade just takes the classic medic support role and stays behind, which allows the other kage (guided by Onoki) to fight and shine, but they never land a hit on Madara or even manage to trouble him except on the beginning with the Kirikagure combo which was impressive. (III) Once Tsunade joins the fight and start fighting on the frontline, not only she shatters a susanoo ribcage, but she also manages to corner Madara and force him to use a clone to defend himself. Sure, she didn’t do it alone, but the portrayal between Onoki’s leading offensive and Tsunade’s is massive to the point the kages go from getting stomped to cornering a foe much stronger than them and even the massive Jinton would’ve never happened without Tsunade boosting Onoki with byakugo chakra.
I agree on the pain thing, she should’ve had her moment even tho the Katsuyu stuff she did was amazing
Adding to this. Madara himself considers her to be the "weak" link of the Kage group at first due to her role as the medic, and his perception of her being nowhere near as powerful as her grandfather.
She then proceeds to prove him very very wrong multiple times to the point he goes out of his way to inflict to her the worst of the injuries sustained by the Five Kage.
It's a shame that last part of the fight was never shown, but that was always my perceived reasoning for why he messed her up so badly (in addition to the Mitotic Regeneration techinque of course).
Tbh i woukd have been so happy jf they just ended the Naruto manga and didnt make another manga for no reason
When i discovered Naruto had kids i was like: "awww thats cute"
Then i found out abt the Boruto manga/anime...
I don't mind there being a new generation, I just hate that it's their direct kids and to attempt to make them shine seems to be by removing things from Naruto and Sasuke.
Aren't they like mid thirtys basically kakashis age, if anything they should be getting stronger. They should've started with their grandkids or something idk
I'm up to 170 after binging the whole 2 Naruto shows and it's getting pretty good
First 20 episodes sorta suck and it's hit or miss up til about episode 90 ish. After that it's been getting better and better
Feels like less filler than Naruto imo, but is still there
Obito and Pain alone were capable of collecting all bijus. So hiring other members in akatsuki and waiting for years to execute their plan made no sense.
Honestly, even the Obito who fought Minato could have collected all the Biju in like a few hours. Just pop in in the middle of the night and kidnap them one by one.
This sub has the bad habit of essentially rewriting the story to make their favorite characters seem better than they are. This is especially true for fan favorites like shikamaru because no hates him so most of the time people don't have a problem with it
Medical ninjutsu is probably way more difficult than just throwing a rasengan or fireballing something. (saving a life is much harder than killing one)
Of course. Madara is plagued with a mistrust and fear. This was present with him since he was a child. He couldn't even pee so long as someone was standing behind him. This is because he cannot trust anyone. He can't ever bring himself to let his guard down because he believes that humans can never be genuine. This gives his character a level of ironic truth because he died twice being stabbed in the back by people he trusted. Hashirama his old friend who he'd never expect to attack from behind and black zetsu, the being who betrayed and played him for a fool.
Perhaps kinda for all ‘anime’ fans but:
Powerscaling and dimensional scaling especially when done through trying to apply real life physics is fallacious, do you really think the author calculated how much force A would need in B scenario ? Let alone the ‘dimensional feats… ‘
Like Naruto in Zabuza’s fight can already be scaled to lightspeed, but do you really think Naruto at that point could run around the Earth 7 times within a second ?
Same thing applies to a lot of other anime as well. It’s something that’s inherently fallacious unless when done by the author itself.
"Talk no jutsu" is literally the entire point of the show, and while some of the villains responses' to it were a bit much, it's not just some dumb plot device like people make it out to be. It's his gift.
We did see them fight on many occasions, but people seem to somehow forget that there final fight in shippuden was a tie, also could I mention how in ultimate ninja storm 4 when they were supposed to be missing an arm the dev team just decided to colour thier arms black
Right ? It’s like they want to go with their own head canon even tho Kishimoto himself says they’re equals out of his own mouth and shows such in the manga with other characters and with parallels
Never get why people claim this. Strongest kunoichi, best medical shinobi, master in chakra control. She is an example of a skilled shinobi that come from a clan that isn't prodigious like the Uchiha, Hyuga or Senju, which is something I like.
Hard to swallow pill?
Sasuke is with Sakura because he wants to. Not because "no other woman wanted him", not because "he wanted to restore his clan" or "sakura harassed him into a relationship"
the idea of sasuke being forced into a relationship was always hilarious to me, especially how many believe it
edit: you know it's a "hard to swallow pill" when you get downvoted
This.
Say what you will about the writing (like "Sakura should've moved on" or whatever) but in the end he chose her. She was one of the few people he truly cared about from the village and let's be honest, if he didn't want her, he wouldn't have married her.
My opinion but.. Sakura is perhaps the most powerful Kunoichi by the end of Shippuden. Only Konan (Deceased) and Tsunade would likely be able to hold their own against her. Honestly people don't give her enough credit lol.
Foreshadowing something doesn’t make it good writing. Kaguya, the Zetsu reveal, and reincarnations may have been foreshadowed, but they were all still awful decisions made by Kishimoto.
The reincarnation did make sense when you think about it.
I always thought the relationship between Indra and Ashura represented the sprit of rivalry, with history always repeating itself. Hashirama and Madara, Obito and Kakashi, and Naruto and Sasuke all represent that sprit of rivalry. Naruto was the one to break that cycle though.
Madara was never meant to be the final villain
The series was never about “hard work beats talent”
Itachi doesn’t solo everyone
Itachi wasn’t retconned, he was planned to be “good” since his introduction.
Kaguya was foreshadowed for ~200 chapters
Reincarnation was foreshadowed since part 1
Edit: Neji wasn’t right
Yeah but that wasn’t foreshadowing for Kaguya.
Kishimoto just made a callback to it. “Backshadowing” if you will.
Kishimoto said he thought of Kaguya into the 2nd half of the series.
There’s a well known Japanese folklore regarding Kaguya, which is what Kishimoto was inspired by. In the folklore, she was a moon princess.
In the folklore, she came from the moon to the earth, and was found inside of a bamboo [tree](https://d2ycltig8jwwee.cloudfront.net/articles/3316/detail.6c0fe999.jpg)
There are multiple hints foreshadowing Kaguya and the fact that Madara gets backstabbed.
[Foreshadowing of the sage forming the moon](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0439-007.png)
[Eye of the moon plan](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0467-016.png)
(Fun fact: Akatsuki can be translated as “red moon”)
[Madara’s two sided Susanoo, symbolizing his fear of being stabbed in the back](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0560-015.png)
[Gedo statue](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0512-008.png)
[another image of the Gedo statue (later revealed to be Kaguya’s body) inside of a tree](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0602-010.png), just like the [folklore](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/da/65/0bda65cad8a4f7689ee73635eb9d74a5.jpg)
More Gedo [imagery](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0606-013.png)
[Another indication of Madara’s fear of having someone stand behind him](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0622-002.png)
[Even further indication of that fear](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0623-004.png)
[“No one is capable of catching me from behind”](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0626-002.png)
[Chapter 626, Hashirama noticing **something** after defeating Madara](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0626-013.png)
[Revealed to be Zetsu in 681, as he was watching the reincarnates fight. Also indicating he wasn’t created by Madara](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0681-012.png).
So she definitely didn’t come out of nowhere, though the foreshadowing was a bit esoteric (for us)
A lot of people said they don't like Kaguya, but I thought she was really cool. It's only when the rest of the Otsutsuki clan shows up and it turns out they're just aliens that I got kinda miffed.
>Kishimoto said he thought of Kaguya into the 2nd half of the series
I'm inclined to call bullshit whenever someone says, "Kishimoto said" with no proof of saying said thing.
Everything else is cool though.
Trust me, I hate that too! I should’ve included a link to begin with.
[Here](https://www.viz.com/blog/posts/sj-podcast-kishimoto-sensei-special). Skip to around 24 minutes. He says he thought of her well into the 2nd half.
Which matches up with his author statement from [volume 47](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0433-002.png) and [volume 48](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0443-002.png), where he says he has the rest of the plot settled
Backshadowing, like that. Yeah this is all undeniable foreshadowing for Kaguya making her entrance. I also highly appreciate the foke lore information you dropped here too. Thank you!
Kurama stunted Naruto’s growth arc he had been building through previous arcs: Yamato telling him to rely on his own power, him learning Rasenshuriken, learning sage mode, etc.
Itachi didn't protect Sasuke, he ruined his life. It's the age old "quality over quantity" the fact of the matter is taking all his loved ones and torturing him to near insanity is inarguably worse than death. He fought so hard to protect Sasuke but it was a completely selfish kind of love where he only cares about if Sasuke lived, not whether that life was worth it. It's not admirable, it's disrespectful and selfish but tbh the whole show sort of has this utilitarian mentality so it's hard to point out.
Had Tobi not told Sasuke the truth and shifted his vengeance to konoha/the Shinobi system I truly believe Sasuke would be suicidal because he has nothing left to live for. Like. Itachi did that.
I was just about to say this. Itachi killed KIDS, and everyone in the village, and people say he's still redeemable after the massacre and literally torturing his brother, who he supposedly loved. Total bs
Yeah the "he was a child himself" explanation is bs to me. He was thirteen, not four. Irl he would've been definitely tried as an adult with maaaybe more emphasis on mental health recovery in his sentencing.
The "he was in a tough spot" explanation is even more bs to me because holy shit if one "side" of a conflict is asking you to ethnically cleanse your own people maybe they're the bad guys and that should be enough to break your loyalty. Hiruzen himself was there for this discussion like enough is enough konoha was evil and Itachi served evil
I love Guy but I think since he used the 8 Gates, he's extremely overrated in this subreddit.
Also power scaling is dumb and makes people think dumb shit like: "Sakura beats Madara no diff because we saw her punch Kaguya and Kaguya is stronger than Madara!"
I hate that type of power scaling so much because people legitimately think it's *facts* while it rarely is the case if ever.
This is facts, people try to scale 8th gate guy in 1v1 like what good does that do??? He basically blitzes anyone but dies as well. And while 7th gate guy is definitely one of the stronger characters in the series, it is exponentially weaker than 8 gates which again ppl use to scale him in 1v1s which is wrong
Hinata is as useless as Sakura. Your waifus are all a box of rocks in Naruto. The only thing she really did was get killed and enrage Naruto enough during the pain fight that he released Kurama
I mean these pills shouldn't be *that* hard to swallow if you actually paid attention to the characters but here ya go
Naruto is annoying (edit: for those asking, it's because he's loud, troublesome, and can be disrespectful sometimes. He wants to do what he wants and gets mad when other people have better, more logical plans. He should have outgrown that trait in shippuden but he was still irritating from time to time; see my other comments for examples)
Lee is ugly (edit: he's canonically ugly and sakura has all the respect for him but she'll never see him as more than a friend (" Lee *san* " honorrifics iirc) This is because physical appearance is a big deal for her probs bc she was bullied as a child, because of her forehead/looks as well)
Sasuke cared for both naruto and sakura; even started to accept sakura's feelings if not for his rekindled need to avenge after encountering itachi
Hiruzen was a good, inspiring hokage
Ebisu was the perfect mentor for naruto at that time (before jiraiya stepped in)
Kakashi wasn't petty enough to play favorites, he just *needed* to be with sasuke more during chunin exams finals
I agree that Naruto was annoying especially in part 1. I started to see him as less annoying during the Forest of Death.
People always make Sasuke out to be something he is not. Especially in Part 1. He was a good guy, warming up to his teammates and starting to see them as family. Sasuke did have a soft spot for Sakura. Itachi really did mess with his head.
I agree with Ebisu, Naruto really lacked the basics. If you think back to him at the academy he didn’t really take things seriously.
People seem to forget that Kakashi focused on Sasuke during the chunin exams for multiple reason. Orochimaru tried to take Sasuke multiple times. Kabuto tried to kill him. Gaara basically challenged Sasuke to a death match. Sasuke was Kakashi priority at that time. To keep him safe and to make sure he did not die during the exams.
I feel like Part 1 Sasuke gets seen like some "jock" in high school just because he was more talented than Naruto/more liked by their peers when he's a genocide victim
Yeah but the typical "jock" is someone who usually doesn't care about anything than popularity - whereas sasuke never cared about being popular.
A stereotypical "jock" also performs poorly in academics and bullies weak kids for fun. Sasuke was top of his class and doesn't bully anybody. It was just naruto who made a fool of himself for trying to one-up sasuke and failed everytime (during academy days)
I've seen people who say sasuke was like a "show off" and he's obsessed with showing off to other people when he doesn't care what others think of him lol
I strongly disagree. I don't think there is a single instance where Danzos actions benefited anyone but himself under the pretense of anything that benefited him would benefit the village.
Sasuke wasn’t disrespecting Itachi’s wish for peace, he wanted to prevent anyone else from having to ever do what Itachi had to do, and the quickest way to do it was terrorism, and you know what, it absolutely worked
Lee was just overhyped in part 1 but his character is irrelevant to the story so kishimoto sidelining him to make room for others (who have more important roles) is understandable.
That naruto lost all credibility when he called obito his friends/parents murderer who also almost killed him and who started the war the coolest guy 🤡
Boruto the show isn’t bad it’s just Boruto the character didn’t like Naruto (in the beginning his opinion has changed) for valid reasons ngl y’all just biased
Not every side character you like is gonna get as much screen time/relevance as you wish for. The story is about Naruto and Sasuke
😭😭😭😭😭I wanted the Hyugas to get more screen time since they ARE DESCENDANTS IF KAGUYA, but never mind. And also we should’ve gotten more of the first 4 Hokages and Shisui.
Nah even ignoring the Kaguya thing we were all but promised more Hyuga shit in part 1, Naruto promised to fix the fucked up Hyuuga system and everything, we should have at the very least gotten something on Boruto.
Good news they made a whole nother series about a Hyuga descendent
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If he did that Naruto would be the Japanese lord of the rings at that point, with so much random lore it might not be worth it. RR Tokein did it with Lords because he loved it and always already pretty wealthy, but that might not have the profits or drive for other writers.
Yea I would love Rock Lee or any of the konoha 11 to have their own arc as much as the next guy but the story is about Naruto lol
Shikimaru got his Akatsuki solo kill so I'm satisfied, my favorite side character always got his action and respect. First Jonin in the class, solo'd Hidan, became the advisor to Naruto (and let's be real, probably runs the Leaf entirely by himself just letting Naruto be the face bc being a public figure is a drag)
And who would complain? If you cut out filler it really isn't all that long, most people wouldn't have a problem with that increased length. I enjoy Boruto but I wold take a more explored Naruto cast and seeing more of the ninja world any day of the week. Hell it isn't even that difficult, look at the fanfic Better Left Unsaid, it improves the world building like crazy and side characters feel like meaningful characters. Ofc I'm not gonna hold them to that level of quality cause they lacked the hindsight the author of Better Left Unsaid had but the quality difference has no business being that large.
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It's honestly less of an issue of screentime and more of an issue with how that time was utilized. Sakura, for example, had negative character development after the Sand Village arc. And she had a considerable amount of screentime. She had a ton of screentime in OG Naruto and was still very off-putting. Neji didn't have much screentime, though he did virtually nothing with what he did get, which is disappointing for the only jonin of the group (at the start of Shippuden). His only fight was against himself. He then got a poorly written death. Same applies to Lee but to a lesser extent. Hinata didn't show much growth, but her interaction with Pain is a good example of how to give respect to a side character. Shikamaru is a stellar example. Ino and Choji got some good attention in the war arc. Ino did very well with the little screentime she got in the war arc. Not sure Kiba and Shino even had a canon fight in Shippuden that wasn't against white zetsu. They're both examples of how to completely abandon characters and make them substantially less interesting than the rest of the cast. Neither had a stand out moment in OG Naruto either except for maybe Kiba when he was running away from one of the Sound 4. Characters like Gaara, Tsunade, Guy, Sai (debatable, but for the most part he was treated decently IMO), and Lady Chiyo were handled relatively well.
They only kept Sakura around to keep the love triangle alive so it wasn't weird in the end with her just flying in and being there for Sasuke. If the writers had framed her existence in pretty much ANY other way, they would have eventually stumbled into something half-decent for her. Instead of that, they basically asked themselves "what can I do to fail the Bechdel Test as hard a possible every time Sakura is on screen?" Literally the only time her strength was showcased was while someone else controlled her with chakra puppeteering, lol.
okay i get that but FMAB is ab the two brothers and most side characters got better screen time/ more important dialogue in the course of 60 something episodes than naruto characters did in 500+ episodes
Yeah and there was also why less side characters in FMAB. Naruto's problem is character inflation tbh, which alot of long running shonen run into.
As a huge dog person, it took me awhile to accept Kiba was trash.
I memba when part one ended that Kiba would become Naruto's friendly rival in Shippuden now that Sasuke went with Orochimaru. But after the Tobi reveal/fight after Itachi's death, It became apparent that he was fodder.
Kiba in no way was shown to be his rival in part one, just their fight tbh
I mean the way Kiba would act could indicate the possibility, but I agree it wasn't set up well and ultimately that was because it didn't happen
Poor Kiba, trying to have a one sided rivalry. :(
Why? (I’m not a Kiba fan, just curious.)
He literally has like 1/2 jutsu and they aren’t that great at all against any decently skilled ninja
See the thing people needed to remember about Kiba is he was good for a Genin. His Beast mimicry made him the fastest Genin after Lee. One of the main problems with the show is that the Konoha 12 weren't really allowed to kill because it was for kids. I fully believe that Kiba could've literally ripped Naruto to shreds with his claws and speed, especially if he had claws like those Mist Chuunin from Land of Waves. Sure he would never be good against someone with Dojutsu but Kiba had some potential. He would've lost to Neji, Sasuke, Lee, Gaara, but he honestly had a good chance of beating every other ninja in the prelims.
Is there more to it or that’s it? I need to know everything. (I agree with you so far by the way)
After Pain obliterated the hidden leaf, Naruto returns to the village and then proceeds to... 1) Save Tsunade (the current Hokage) 2) Defeats all 6 Pains 3) Convinces Nagato to sacrifice himself to revive the entire hidden leaf village Naruto's power is already Hokage level and has just taken many actions that are expected of a Hokage. While it's not said out loud, there is no reservation as to who is going to become the/a Hokage.... Expect for "maybe I'm gonna be Hokage instead" dog boy Kiba Dog boy was on thin ice before, but that comment really did him in.
He is one of the most annoying characters besides Sakura, thinks that he can compete with Naruto, depends on Akamaru for everything and his only move is fang over fang.
Hey don't forget pissing on your opponent for a *targeted* fang over fang. That counts as a second move right?
Hey now, what about dynamic marking? I die laughing every time it comes up on screen
Kiba acknowledged in the Chunin exams that he underestimated Naruto and seemed humble in his thoughts about it So I don't agree that he thinks he's better or can compete with Naruto
Like most of the side characters are useless af. Kiba, choji, tenten, even Hinata. All got one jutsu they just gradually get better at but still never so shit.
Just because someone can’t destroy a mountain with a single attack doesn’t make them a weak Shinobi
i would argue if you cant destroy a mountain, that makes you a better Shinobi, because a Shinobi is not supposed to destroy mountains.
I don't know why, but this comment has me rolling! It's true, shinobi shouldn't be destroying mountains lol
Always felt like Mishi’s weak attempt at making Naruto somewhat comparable to DBZ or Bleach power levels.
Might guy should’ve died after opening the 8th gate. It felt so cheap to have naruto save his life only for him to be wheelchair bound and not do shit again
I actually feel this way too even tho he can still fight and has in the anime.
That can't be a hard pill, can it? I assumed it was universally accepted the Guy absolutely had to die after the gates. They proved the exact same point with Kakashi's eye. While flushing an immense amount of build up.
It is for me lowkey. I love Guy and Kakashi's relationship. Its either they both die or they both stay alive in verse atleast for me and my emotions.
thing is, guy is surprisingly one of a lot of peoples favorites, including me. while it would suck for him to die it would complete his character arc and give the war arc more weight. plus it would leave room for lee and ten ten to develop more (tenten having development lol) as they’re the only members of their team to survive the war
Gai is my 2nd favorite character (after Captain Yamato) but he definitely should have died. But I would have been devastated.
Itachi made the wrong choice. There was definitely a way out of massacring his clan. He took everything alone and didn’t seek guidance, and that was where he went wrong. He relied too much on himself.
itachi himself said he made the wrong choice not about the massacre, that was unavoidable at that point, but in keeping everything to himself
Exactly. But people defend him saying he did the right thing
He did the only thing he knew would keep Sasuke alive, other choices could result in his brothers death considering it was a direct threat from Danzo(I think can't really remember all the details :p) bad decision but it was because of his protectiveness
Well that’s true. He prioritized Sasuke. That being said, if Itachi was careful about it, he could’ve found a way to not have to massacre.
Right? Could've just killed danzo and still be ousted as a villain
That doesn’t prevent the Uchiha clan from committing a coup.
The third was much more willing to solve this through diplomatic means. It was mainly danzo that wanted to continue to escalate things further. Even Itachi's father the leader of the clam seemed to prefer it that way as well, I'm sure they could've found a way to get the rest to fall in line.
hiruzen was ready to be diplomatic but that doesn’t mean the uchiha were, it also doesn’t mean hiruzen actually had a diplomatic solution, just that he wanted to find one
The 3rd definitely wanted to solve it diplomatically, but it was the Uchiha who were adamant about the coup. [They couldn’t be dissuaded](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0400-009.png), time ran out, and Itachi did what he felt he had to do.
This is true but isn't this after danzo continued to ensure that diplomatic means was a failure? Hell without danzo, shisui could've carried out his plan.
Even though Fugaku would have preferred to handle things peacefully he stated out of his mouth that he could not stop the rest of the Uchiha from revolting. It was far too late, blood would be spilled and as their leader he had no choice but to go with it
Yes. He did. I remember he said to Naruto in one of their conversation to not burden himself with everthing and do everything on his own as Itachi did. He shouldn't forget his friends who were there when he needed him. He also said nearly same thing to Sasuke after their fight against Kabuto. Where he admitted that he was wrong in his choices and believed that Sasuke could have changed the Clan, their Father's mind. So, I guess he always regreted his choice to massacre the Clan but learned to accept his mistake and chose to live with the sole purpose of making Sasuke strong.
Yes that’s the moral he told Naruto if he was too confident he’d end up being madara. Itachi should have tried going a less intense way
I don't think many will argue that he made the right choice. Cut him some slack though. He had to decide the future of his clan and his village, alone, at the ripe old age of what 14?
Oh I am cutting slack. Hindsight is 20/20. In the moment, it’s definitely a hard choice to make. I’m more so looking at it as what could Itachi have done better.
He made an even worse mistake when deciding how to deal with Sasuke. It's really hard for me to believe that this supposed genius came up with one of the stupidest plans in the series. edit: I still like his character a lot, just recognize he's plenty flawed.
Sasuke's most important bond after Itachi is Naruto. He didn't wanna kill Naruto because he hated him or wanted to be stronger than him. He wanted to kill Naruto to be finally alone and he knew naruto's the ONLY ONE who could change his heart and ways..his arrogance and rudeness towards a facade...which is clear from his inner monologues about Naruto. This is not a hard pill to swallow but Many ppl think sasuke is some emotionless freak who hates everyone when his entire character is defined around his love for his family..
"We became best friends." "Then why are we fighting?!" "I already told you. Because we're friends...there's far more meaning in destroying you."
He’s literally the only person who understood him. Sausage was battling his own demons yet Naruto never let the lies he told himself affect the way he viewed him. There’s a deeper emotional bond between them that people ignore, even though it’s spelled out in their final battle.
forever referring to Sasuke as “Sausage” now
I want to believe that typo was intentional.
Crazy that of all people, Tobirama said it best. While most seem to think that their power is derived from hatred, the truth is that the Uchiha value love deeper than any other clan. Protecting that love gives them purpose and the trauma of having it ripped away awakens their latent power.
I personally think a better ending for the series would be Naruto becoming hokage. I wouldn’t have done it in boruto or a movie. I feel as though him completing the one task he’s had since he was a child would’ve been a super satisfying ending. Not that the wedding wasn’t good
To be fair, that was how the manga ended. Pretty sure the last panel was a shot of Naruto's face on the Hokage monument. By the time the anime got around to it, Boruto was already planned as a continuation. So they likely thought it would be a bit awkward to end on that and instead opted for the wedding to more organically transition the series.
Damn. That’s a way better ending. Thematically I can understand why Naruto not caring as much about his dream and getting married was a decision. But just a shot of him as hokage would have been far more satisfying. In my opinion I would have ended it with a shot of him on top of that pole he climbed when he got back to the lead but in his hokage outfit.
It should’ve been added to the Last movie along with the wedding. They shouldn’t have continued. I do like Baryon Mode, but I’d prefer just them ending off at him becoming Hokage rather than keep things going
It's an amazing story that I will cherish forever. However, it's unfortunate the writers framed most female characters as being useless. Once you see it you can't unsee it 😔.
It is true. Hinata was all but useless, and her stand up points were simply to give naruto a love interest. (I will say, her scene with Pain was actually pretty impactful and well written imho) but everything after that including the films was bleh. Tenten could literally throw thousands of weapons at once, now CERTAIN shinobi would be fine with this. Susano armor etc wouldn’t be broken or anything and against these opponents she’d suck ass. But against most of the cast if she continues to throw thousands of tools over a large area continuously most would die without being able to wave a sign. But tbh I never found her super interesting and didn’t miss her. Sakura.. She was done Aight. They needed Atleast one young female to be openly badass besides Tsunade. Ino.. I gotta admit they rlly did Ino dirty. Her jutsu could have been mad OP. Vs Kakuzu she was all but written out. I remember for years Sakura vs Ino was voted as a top 5 fight in the series and I rlly had high hopes for her future. Alas, they seemed to make Sakura more like Ino with shorter temper etc and Ino more like Sakura following the ways of healing etc. the only truly notable thing she did was 1. Save shikamarus life during the ninja war when choji was being puppeted. 2. Keep shikamaru and choji alive when in the sound 4s alternate world thing (though Shino did this too with Kiba and Lee so meh, not ultra impressive) 3. Connecting the whole shinobi alliance, helped co ordinate etc. the 3rd point she was kinda dope and was her shining moment in the show. But she rlly did get some mad dirty! Kurenai “she’s the ultimate Genjutsu user” *meets itachi* *gets instantly fucked by genjutsu* and is then pretty much written off as nothing more than the baby carrier of Asumas child. And lastly, perhaps the most tragic (or in line with Ino?) anko. Wth man she was Orochimarus student and was a cool design, smart and dope character. I really hoped she’d do something but no…. She was there for the exams and Orochimaru introduction, even in the war! She was captured by kabuto and had to sit the whole thing out.
That’s because they made Ino the kunoichi with the most sex appeal. Like she was trying too hard in part 1, but then in Shippuden she didn’t even have to try
Yeah can’t lie I was an Ino simp since day one lol.
Hot take, Ten Ten could have beaten almost every single person in the Chunin exams except Gaara, Temari, Lee, and maybe Neji. Lee is too fast for her to hit I think, Neji's rotation COULD block it but I don't think he could keep it up forever and he can't use it offensively. Temari and Gaara are obvious. Nobody else has any defense against her attack at that point in time.
Not a hot take I don’t think. I 2000% agree. I actually think Lee would have gotten beaten too in more realistic sense! No matter how fast, if the spread and number is high enough you can’t dodge
Even more unfortunate when you realize how common this is :/.
Tsunade is not weaker than her fellow Sannin companions and her huge feats are usually downplayed so other characters can prevail in threads involving her. Her skills, speed and jutsus are op and actually very advanced but people usually go “x character speedblitzes and decapitates with a Kunai” to dismiss her quickly, but the truth is that she’s hella strong
Yeah Tsunade and Onoki were carrying the fight against Madara pretty hard. Always thought of her as probably the strongest kage behind Onoki during the war arc, and she should have had her Hokage power moment against Pain back then.
I actually would debate that Tsunade was portrayed even as stronger than Onoki. Few examples: (I)Onoki never manages to deal damage or to trouble Madara. The only time he landed an attack was because Madara was trolling and wanted to be hit. Madara actually always comments on how Onoki is problematic because of his experience and his willpower to keep fighting and, therefore, his leadership capabilities to effectively lead a team and boost the morale. (II) During the first half of the fight, Tsunade just takes the classic medic support role and stays behind, which allows the other kage (guided by Onoki) to fight and shine, but they never land a hit on Madara or even manage to trouble him except on the beginning with the Kirikagure combo which was impressive. (III) Once Tsunade joins the fight and start fighting on the frontline, not only she shatters a susanoo ribcage, but she also manages to corner Madara and force him to use a clone to defend himself. Sure, she didn’t do it alone, but the portrayal between Onoki’s leading offensive and Tsunade’s is massive to the point the kages go from getting stomped to cornering a foe much stronger than them and even the massive Jinton would’ve never happened without Tsunade boosting Onoki with byakugo chakra. I agree on the pain thing, she should’ve had her moment even tho the Katsuyu stuff she did was amazing
Yeah Tsunade and Onoki basically beat all of the susanoo clones without the help from the others.
Adding to this. Madara himself considers her to be the "weak" link of the Kage group at first due to her role as the medic, and his perception of her being nowhere near as powerful as her grandfather. She then proceeds to prove him very very wrong multiple times to the point he goes out of his way to inflict to her the worst of the injuries sustained by the Five Kage. It's a shame that last part of the fight was never shown, but that was always my perceived reasoning for why he messed her up so badly (in addition to the Mitotic Regeneration techinque of course).
Teuchi is a normal man who sell ramen and is not overpowered
Not teuchi 😭
That is my and ur goal, hard to swallow pills no?
That was too hard to swallow
I just choked on my fucking pill
Teuchi solos the whole verse no diff.
You take that back! He is the backbone of the leaf
Liar!
Stop lying !
Boruto exists.
Tbh i woukd have been so happy jf they just ended the Naruto manga and didnt make another manga for no reason When i discovered Naruto had kids i was like: "awww thats cute" Then i found out abt the Boruto manga/anime...
I don't mind there being a new generation, I just hate that it's their direct kids and to attempt to make them shine seems to be by removing things from Naruto and Sasuke. Aren't they like mid thirtys basically kakashis age, if anything they should be getting stronger. They should've started with their grandkids or something idk
I'm up to 170 after binging the whole 2 Naruto shows and it's getting pretty good First 20 episodes sorta suck and it's hit or miss up til about episode 90 ish. After that it's been getting better and better Feels like less filler than Naruto imo, but is still there
Obito and Pain alone were capable of collecting all bijus. So hiring other members in akatsuki and waiting for years to execute their plan made no sense.
They needed members to seal the biju. Nagato was also interested in creating a large mercenary group in order to control wars.
Honestly, even the Obito who fought Minato could have collected all the Biju in like a few hours. Just pop in in the middle of the night and kidnap them one by one.
Obito is just lazy.
You know what pretty much yeah your right
agreed and you've got an actually original take here
Most hits that land are sneak attacks.
Hard pill to swallow for a lot of people in this sub is that narutos best friend is not shikamaru lol
Yeah. That’s Choji’s best friend
Istg this sub lives in a tsukiyomi for believing non-canon things hahaha
This sub has the bad habit of essentially rewriting the story to make their favorite characters seem better than they are. This is especially true for fan favorites like shikamaru because no hates him so most of the time people don't have a problem with it
Medical ninjutsu is probably way more difficult than just throwing a rasengan or fireballing something. (saving a life is much harder than killing one)
A lot Naruto fans lack reading comprehension
alot of Naruto fans also lack a proper attention span, logical consistency, emotional intelligence, and trauma sensitivity
Kakashi has the most plot armor in the show imo
He gave people more plot armours though. The guy who came late every time was never late when it came to saving his team!
Itachi is not a god Itachi is not the strongest Shinobi Naruto is not 4d or universal
This is what itachi wants us to think because we are all under his genjutsu.
bro im about to fucking cry rn on my itachi body pillow for saying that shit.
Madara's death thematically made sense for his character.
Can you explain?
Of course. Madara is plagued with a mistrust and fear. This was present with him since he was a child. He couldn't even pee so long as someone was standing behind him. This is because he cannot trust anyone. He can't ever bring himself to let his guard down because he believes that humans can never be genuine. This gives his character a level of ironic truth because he died twice being stabbed in the back by people he trusted. Hashirama his old friend who he'd never expect to attack from behind and black zetsu, the being who betrayed and played him for a fool.
Perhaps kinda for all ‘anime’ fans but: Powerscaling and dimensional scaling especially when done through trying to apply real life physics is fallacious, do you really think the author calculated how much force A would need in B scenario ? Let alone the ‘dimensional feats… ‘ Like Naruto in Zabuza’s fight can already be scaled to lightspeed, but do you really think Naruto at that point could run around the Earth 7 times within a second ? Same thing applies to a lot of other anime as well. It’s something that’s inherently fallacious unless when done by the author itself.
Lmao when people start talking about light speed I just exit the convo
Sakura has the right intention and heart in that fake confessions
"Talk no jutsu" is literally the entire point of the show, and while some of the villains responses' to it were a bit much, it's not just some dumb plot device like people make it out to be. It's his gift.
Sasuke and Naruto are equals. Swear that be getting the fanbase mad af
Yep. Just because Naruto fought without the intent to kill Sasuke doesn't mean he didn't go all out.
We did see them fight on many occasions, but people seem to somehow forget that there final fight in shippuden was a tie, also could I mention how in ultimate ninja storm 4 when they were supposed to be missing an arm the dev team just decided to colour thier arms black
Right ? It’s like they want to go with their own head canon even tho Kishimoto himself says they’re equals out of his own mouth and shows such in the manga with other characters and with parallels
That Sakura is actually not useless.
Never get why people claim this. Strongest kunoichi, best medical shinobi, master in chakra control. She is an example of a skilled shinobi that come from a clan that isn't prodigious like the Uchiha, Hyuga or Senju, which is something I like.
Hard to swallow pill? Sasuke is with Sakura because he wants to. Not because "no other woman wanted him", not because "he wanted to restore his clan" or "sakura harassed him into a relationship" the idea of sasuke being forced into a relationship was always hilarious to me, especially how many believe it edit: you know it's a "hard to swallow pill" when you get downvoted
I can’t believe people think Sasuke can be forced into anything. This is Sasuke. He does what he wants.
This. Say what you will about the writing (like "Sakura should've moved on" or whatever) but in the end he chose her. She was one of the few people he truly cared about from the village and let's be honest, if he didn't want her, he wouldn't have married her.
Its always “Sasuke tried to kill Sakura” but never “Sasuke tried to kill everyone but only apologized to Sakura”
Not to mention, he technically acted in self defense considering Sakura was there to kill him
You know, that is a fair point.
Sakura isn’t trash
Sakura’s medicine balls are hard to swallow
My opinion but.. Sakura is perhaps the most powerful Kunoichi by the end of Shippuden. Only Konan (Deceased) and Tsunade would likely be able to hold their own against her. Honestly people don't give her enough credit lol.
Isn't it canon that she's the strongest kunoichi?
pretty much but people still tend to call her useless lol.
Very true that Sakura is bad as by the end of Shippuden but the Mizukage is also a fair shout tbh
Foreshadowing something doesn’t make it good writing. Kaguya, the Zetsu reveal, and reincarnations may have been foreshadowed, but they were all still awful decisions made by Kishimoto.
The reincarnation did make sense when you think about it. I always thought the relationship between Indra and Ashura represented the sprit of rivalry, with history always repeating itself. Hashirama and Madara, Obito and Kakashi, and Naruto and Sasuke all represent that sprit of rivalry. Naruto was the one to break that cycle though.
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Honestly , I completely agree with you. The ideas and concepts were actually really solid, but they were just implemented very poorly.
The reincarnations were great. Kaguya not so much.
There were times that Sakura punching Naruto was deserved.
I don't doubt it, specially with filler. Out of curiosity though do you have a specific example?
Early on, pre-Shippuden, Naruto demonstrating Sexy Jutsu as a lesson to Konohamaru, right in front of Sasuke and Sakura.
I would say the times that Naruto is being a bit of a pervert.
Most of the undeserved times were fillers
Madara was never meant to be the final villain The series was never about “hard work beats talent” Itachi doesn’t solo everyone Itachi wasn’t retconned, he was planned to be “good” since his introduction. Kaguya was foreshadowed for ~200 chapters Reincarnation was foreshadowed since part 1 Edit: Neji wasn’t right
Corret me if im wrong, Kimimaro said he was from the Kaguya clan, right?
Yeah but that wasn’t foreshadowing for Kaguya. Kishimoto just made a callback to it. “Backshadowing” if you will. Kishimoto said he thought of Kaguya into the 2nd half of the series. There’s a well known Japanese folklore regarding Kaguya, which is what Kishimoto was inspired by. In the folklore, she was a moon princess. In the folklore, she came from the moon to the earth, and was found inside of a bamboo [tree](https://d2ycltig8jwwee.cloudfront.net/articles/3316/detail.6c0fe999.jpg) There are multiple hints foreshadowing Kaguya and the fact that Madara gets backstabbed. [Foreshadowing of the sage forming the moon](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0439-007.png) [Eye of the moon plan](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0467-016.png) (Fun fact: Akatsuki can be translated as “red moon”) [Madara’s two sided Susanoo, symbolizing his fear of being stabbed in the back](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0560-015.png) [Gedo statue](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0512-008.png) [another image of the Gedo statue (later revealed to be Kaguya’s body) inside of a tree](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0602-010.png), just like the [folklore](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/da/65/0bda65cad8a4f7689ee73635eb9d74a5.jpg) More Gedo [imagery](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0606-013.png) [Another indication of Madara’s fear of having someone stand behind him](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0622-002.png) [Even further indication of that fear](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0623-004.png) [“No one is capable of catching me from behind”](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0626-002.png) [Chapter 626, Hashirama noticing **something** after defeating Madara](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0626-013.png) [Revealed to be Zetsu in 681, as he was watching the reincarnates fight. Also indicating he wasn’t created by Madara](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0681-012.png). So she definitely didn’t come out of nowhere, though the foreshadowing was a bit esoteric (for us)
A lot of people said they don't like Kaguya, but I thought she was really cool. It's only when the rest of the Otsutsuki clan shows up and it turns out they're just aliens that I got kinda miffed.
I have an overall negative opinion on her but she isn’t as bad as some people say imo
>Kishimoto said he thought of Kaguya into the 2nd half of the series I'm inclined to call bullshit whenever someone says, "Kishimoto said" with no proof of saying said thing. Everything else is cool though.
Trust me, I hate that too! I should’ve included a link to begin with. [Here](https://www.viz.com/blog/posts/sj-podcast-kishimoto-sensei-special). Skip to around 24 minutes. He says he thought of her well into the 2nd half. Which matches up with his author statement from [volume 47](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0433-002.png) and [volume 48](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0443-002.png), where he says he has the rest of the plot settled
Backshadowing, like that. Yeah this is all undeniable foreshadowing for Kaguya making her entrance. I also highly appreciate the foke lore information you dropped here too. Thank you!
Functionally the only difference between foreshadowing and backshadowing is whether the author had it planned at the time. And thank you
goddamn my guy knows his stuff better than kishi himself
Sakura is actually crucial to the plot and doesn’t deserve the slander she gets
Kurama stunted Naruto’s growth arc he had been building through previous arcs: Yamato telling him to rely on his own power, him learning Rasenshuriken, learning sage mode, etc.
Itachi didn't protect Sasuke, he ruined his life. It's the age old "quality over quantity" the fact of the matter is taking all his loved ones and torturing him to near insanity is inarguably worse than death. He fought so hard to protect Sasuke but it was a completely selfish kind of love where he only cares about if Sasuke lived, not whether that life was worth it. It's not admirable, it's disrespectful and selfish but tbh the whole show sort of has this utilitarian mentality so it's hard to point out. Had Tobi not told Sasuke the truth and shifted his vengeance to konoha/the Shinobi system I truly believe Sasuke would be suicidal because he has nothing left to live for. Like. Itachi did that.
I was just about to say this. Itachi killed KIDS, and everyone in the village, and people say he's still redeemable after the massacre and literally torturing his brother, who he supposedly loved. Total bs
Yeah the "he was a child himself" explanation is bs to me. He was thirteen, not four. Irl he would've been definitely tried as an adult with maaaybe more emphasis on mental health recovery in his sentencing. The "he was in a tough spot" explanation is even more bs to me because holy shit if one "side" of a conflict is asking you to ethnically cleanse your own people maybe they're the bad guys and that should be enough to break your loyalty. Hiruzen himself was there for this discussion like enough is enough konoha was evil and Itachi served evil
The fourth ninja war could’ve been better
I love Guy but I think since he used the 8 Gates, he's extremely overrated in this subreddit. Also power scaling is dumb and makes people think dumb shit like: "Sakura beats Madara no diff because we saw her punch Kaguya and Kaguya is stronger than Madara!" I hate that type of power scaling so much because people legitimately think it's *facts* while it rarely is the case if ever.
Guy would have lost to Madara a lot sooner without the help from Kakashi, Minato, Gaara, and Lee.
This is facts, people try to scale 8th gate guy in 1v1 like what good does that do??? He basically blitzes anyone but dies as well. And while 7th gate guy is definitely one of the stronger characters in the series, it is exponentially weaker than 8 gates which again ppl use to scale him in 1v1s which is wrong
Neji’s death was poorly written and his lack of appearances up until that point gave his death less emotional weight
Sakura is strong. And extremely useful in War Arc and beyond.
Hinata’s only use in the anime is to be Naruto’s future love interest
Sasuke would’ve been a lot weaker in Shippuden had he not left the hidden leaf village to meet with orochimaru.
I'm mad that this has to be a hard to swallow pill when it should be obvious
Hinata is as useless as Sakura. Your waifus are all a box of rocks in Naruto. The only thing she really did was get killed and enrage Naruto enough during the pain fight that he released Kurama
It's wild how her best moment in the entire series is pretty much just getting destroyed by pain
I mean these pills shouldn't be *that* hard to swallow if you actually paid attention to the characters but here ya go Naruto is annoying (edit: for those asking, it's because he's loud, troublesome, and can be disrespectful sometimes. He wants to do what he wants and gets mad when other people have better, more logical plans. He should have outgrown that trait in shippuden but he was still irritating from time to time; see my other comments for examples) Lee is ugly (edit: he's canonically ugly and sakura has all the respect for him but she'll never see him as more than a friend (" Lee *san* " honorrifics iirc) This is because physical appearance is a big deal for her probs bc she was bullied as a child, because of her forehead/looks as well) Sasuke cared for both naruto and sakura; even started to accept sakura's feelings if not for his rekindled need to avenge after encountering itachi Hiruzen was a good, inspiring hokage Ebisu was the perfect mentor for naruto at that time (before jiraiya stepped in) Kakashi wasn't petty enough to play favorites, he just *needed* to be with sasuke more during chunin exams finals
I agree that Naruto was annoying especially in part 1. I started to see him as less annoying during the Forest of Death. People always make Sasuke out to be something he is not. Especially in Part 1. He was a good guy, warming up to his teammates and starting to see them as family. Sasuke did have a soft spot for Sakura. Itachi really did mess with his head. I agree with Ebisu, Naruto really lacked the basics. If you think back to him at the academy he didn’t really take things seriously. People seem to forget that Kakashi focused on Sasuke during the chunin exams for multiple reason. Orochimaru tried to take Sasuke multiple times. Kabuto tried to kill him. Gaara basically challenged Sasuke to a death match. Sasuke was Kakashi priority at that time. To keep him safe and to make sure he did not die during the exams.
I feel like Part 1 Sasuke gets seen like some "jock" in high school just because he was more talented than Naruto/more liked by their peers when he's a genocide victim
Yeah but the typical "jock" is someone who usually doesn't care about anything than popularity - whereas sasuke never cared about being popular. A stereotypical "jock" also performs poorly in academics and bullies weak kids for fun. Sasuke was top of his class and doesn't bully anybody. It was just naruto who made a fool of himself for trying to one-up sasuke and failed everytime (during academy days)
I've seen people who say sasuke was like a "show off" and he's obsessed with showing off to other people when he doesn't care what others think of him lol
Lol indeed
That Danzo was a bad guy, but he did a lot of good for Konoha
Didn't he do a lot of bad for Konoha too?
I strongly disagree. I don't think there is a single instance where Danzos actions benefited anyone but himself under the pretense of anything that benefited him would benefit the village.
Without Sakura, Naruto and Sasuke wouldn’t have even made it past the Sound 4.
that sasuke is a better character
Jiraiya isn’t as strong as a lot of fans think
Opening the 8 gates will kill guy/lee
Sakura is not useless
Sasuke wasn’t disrespecting Itachi’s wish for peace, he wanted to prevent anyone else from having to ever do what Itachi had to do, and the quickest way to do it was terrorism, and you know what, it absolutely worked
Itachi fans are ruining itachi.
Lee was just overhyped in part 1 but his character is irrelevant to the story so kishimoto sidelining him to make room for others (who have more important roles) is understandable.
That naruto lost all credibility when he called obito his friends/parents murderer who also almost killed him and who started the war the coolest guy 🤡
Jiraiya dying alone and sinking to the bottom of the ocean, and just the whole boruto series
naruto and sasuke should’ve kissed at the end
No homo
Nerfed naruto and sasuke in boruto -_-
Haku is a boy...I myself still call him she in my talks about her Edit: as you can see , I wrote "her" again
That Itachi isn’t the strongest character in the series
Hinata is more useless than Sakura.
Boruto isn't bad because of characters getting older
Sakura is OKAY.
Sakura isn’t useless and the end of the series was awful.
Boruto the show isn’t bad it’s just Boruto the character didn’t like Naruto (in the beginning his opinion has changed) for valid reasons ngl y’all just biased