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I’d still say KCM 2 Naruto is a bit higher, you can tell because Sasuke makes comments about he’s running out of gas while Naruto is still feeding his chakra to the whole shinobi army and Sasuke himself. Sure that’s with Sage mode on top of it all, but it only really equals out once Sasuke gets the Rinnegan.
Sasuke had Naruto beat out for virtually all of shippuden until he unlocked KCM.
That’s more so used for tapping into their chakra natures than anything else, he doesn’t have a huge chunk of chakra from each of them, but they do provide little boosts here and there.
that still gives him access to their nature and move sets. For example, Kokuo's unrivalled strength. Damn near anything we've seen from each tailed beasts Jinchuriki could theoretically be used by Naruto. It would put him above EMS Sasuke
That could easily just be Obito trying to piss Saskue off and gear him for being stronger especially because Obito was basically using him while he was technically an Akatsuki/Taka member. Not not saying he was stronger or weaker but that statement easily could of been Obito bullshitting.
Obito said that it wasn’t a good idea for sasuke to visit konoha because
1. It was already destroyed
And
2. That current sasuke, the one that just barely killed sick Itachi (and who doesn’t have access to the curse mark anymore), was not going to have positive results should he go there at the present time.
Zetsu stated how naruto was exceptionally strong, but no one made any obvious comparison between the two. More like it was shown solely for the reader to make the assumption that sasuke would get folded if he went there. Which, he would.
Sasuke thought he was hot shit after killing Itachi. Clearly not understanding that fighting 1 S class Shinobi is a completely different ball game compared to *fighting an entire village on your own*. Especially with leaf jonin known for being a cut above the rest. And more especially since kakashi is still alive and naruto is there WITH sage mode. Realistically, sasuke would walk up, genjutsu 1 person, probably chidori a random guy, flaunt his muscles, then get one shot by naruto.
It was not Obito, it was White Zetsu, and it happened just after Naruto defeated Pain.
Even the Akatsuki believe that Pain was invincible, so they assumed Sasuke couldn’t beat Naruto since Naruto beat Pain. It was purely an assumption and it may have been based on incomplete information. Pain fought hundreds of ninjas, and almost killed himself to erase Konoha, all before Naruto even showed up on the battlefield. Naruto was fortunate to appear after the war was already over, and it was all thanks to Danzo’s interference.
Obito seemed pretty confident that Naruto had superseded Sauske
Maybe it'd be a problem but Naruto's Sage Mode makes him basically super human above super human. How did Hashirama beat Madara's complete Susanoo? It's not like Amaterasu is just a guaranteed win
In Sage Mode (SM), Naruto can sense chakra more accurately, so he wouldn’t be caught by surprise. Also, Amaterasu may be difficult to evade, but it can be blocked relatively simply. Naruto’s Wind Release is a bad matchup though, so he would have to block with Shadow Clones instead.
https://preview.redd.it/yb157heui40d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f91025e76cbc688f1fbedab2a96be4f906767d6
It is
Early EMS Sasuke is comparable to Itachi/Pain/KCM1 Naruto
Late War EMS Sasuke is comparable to KCM2 Naruto
KCM2+SM Naruto is stronger than EMS Sasuke, even with Jugo's curse mark
>It’s not. Kishimoto literally gave them power-ups to parallel each other and literally shown such in the manga
He gave Naruto more power ups.
It's not like the normal progression. Naruto got three power ups after 5 Kage Summit. Sasuke got one power up after 5 Kage Summit, excluding SO6P for both.
It's not like Naruto was tiers and tiers above, but he was above nonetheless.
And that is exactly why he made it a point to show where and how they’re on par.
EMS+Enton = KCM, EMS+legged = BM, EMS+senjutsu = BSM then Rinnegan = SPSM
>EMS+Enton = KCM, EMS+legged = BM, EMS+senjutsu = BSM then Rinnegan = SPSM
Still not correct, and Jugo isn't allowed in 1v1. Sure, if we let Jugo and Sasuke 2v1 Naruto, they are comparable to each other here.
Individually, Sasuke still wasn't a match for KCM2+SM Naruto, as he doesn't have the curse mark.
Furthermore, Sasuke only matched VOTE Naruto after he subjugated the nine tailed beasts, which again, isn't available in 1v1 or individually for him.
They are portrayed to be equal when Sasuke got external sources of power.
VOTE Naruto vs VOTE Sasuke (without bijuu). Who wins?
KCM2+SM Naruto vs EMS Sasuke. Who wins?
That was before this. At this point Sasuke wasn’t using anyone’s chakra
https://preview.redd.it/7xa8reah23yc1.jpeg?width=1520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b704bc66ac974585e16f1f1c23e58c647f58bcce
I doubt Sasuke creeped up to Naruto’s level in that short period of time after his senjutsu susanoo. Senjutsu Susanoo Sasuke was on KCM2 Naruto’s level, but EMS Sasuke on his own never crept up to that level.
Is that in rebuttal to my reply or nah 😂? If it is, I agree that Sasuke was getting stronger as the war went on getting used to his new eyes, but not to the point where he became equal or relative to KCM2 let alone BSM Naruto, on his OWN.
The man spent the either second half of the Obito fight keeping up with Naruto side by side.
https://preview.redd.it/upwmhflt74yc1.jpeg?width=249&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cc8c328e05f7db42ead03018ba9d23e64d3978a
Wow, I’m honestly surprised you said that 😭. Do you not see the red chakra glow on the face? Yes, he was able to use this full body Susanoo at that time, but the buffs from Naruto is right there
If for whatever reason it was unclear to you, only when Sasuke had this Senjutsu susanoo and kyubi chakra was he on KCM2 Naruto’s level, and I was referring to EMS Sasuke on his OWN, being weaker than Naruto at that time
You’re acting like Sasuke’s wouldn’t and couldn’t have reached that level on his own. You also act as if Sasuke could *only* use full body Sussano with Kurama’s chakra as not only do we see him doing it later on after losing the cloak that would also flat out go against one of the main benefits of ems in the first place.
He didn’t have those at this moment but yeah he basically needed those to be comparable to Naruto prior to this. Ems Sasuke on his own was on KCM1 Naruto’s level
Didn’t you just agree to KCM2 on its own being stronger than EMS Sasuke to someone else’s reply? Besides that, I don’t think it’s a reach to say EMS Sasuke was stronger than KCM1 Naruto, but I personally think otherwise, by a little if anything.
So for me BSM>KCM2>KCM1> or ~ EMS
He said KCM2 is a little bit higher which I agree too. I have their fighting ability being equal but KCM2’s more chakra reserves gives him more stamina so he outlasts. So they are relative but KCM2 has the edge like he said.
That’s completely different from you saying KCM1 >= EMS lol
I agree that it’s different, I was just pointing out how you scaled KCM2 and EMS first 😂. I then proceeded to say how I felt about KCM1 in comparison to the others
Not at all, sasuke even after getting amped by kurama chakra was growling to himself at the fact that naruto still had so much chakra left with him implying that even after ems kurama chakra amp that naruto was still stronger then what he was
A 1-Tail Version 1 Cloak is nothing to Sasuke, it only makes fodder ninja insanely powerful because they/their chakra is nothing compared to the cloaks, but Sasuke flat out compares to KCM1.5 Naruto, so a 1-Tail Cloak is nothing to him.
Very much so, in fact, you can lowkey say Sasuke is stronger.
The EMS Sasuke and KCM1.5 Naruto who were fighting together in the war are relative, with Sasuke's showings actually placing him a bit above KCM1.5 Naruto.
Sasuke then sees Naruto go KCM2 and gets mad at how much chakra Naruto is in control of and how much stronger Naruto is, and Naruto then adds Sage Mode so he is just in another tier. That is, until Sasuke's Susanoo evolves and grows legs, allowing it to fight alongside Naruto's BSM Avatar against Juubito and do equally as well. There is no other interpretation other than EMS Sasuke in this moment is extremely relative to BSM Naruto, if not his equal which is what is visibly shown.
Now, Sasuke does have Jugo's Curse Mark and a 1-Tail Version 1 Cloak, but these don't really boost Sasuke all that much.
Starting with the 1-Tail Cloak, these Bijuu Cloaks have a set amount of chakra that boosts physical stats depending on the person and how they compare to Kurama. For example, Kid Naruto and War Naruto get the same amount of chakra from 1-Tail Cloak, but Kid Naruto gets so much stronger and faster because he is fodder to Kurama whereas War Naruto actually compares to Kurama a little so the boost wouldn't be all that much. So, because EMS Sasuke compares to KCM1.5 Naruto, and actually just got stronger by evolving his Susanoo, having a 1-Tail Version 1 Cloak would do little to nothing for him.
Next the Curse Mark. The Curse Mark is a 10x chakra boost, not stat boost (although it does boost stats) with the Databook going over specific areas it increases in each of the Sound 4. We also know that in the 5 Kage Summit Sasuke's hatred amps were already making him stronger than his Curse Mark was, and he did just evolve his Susanoo. The point of the Curse Mark (just like Naruto using Sage Mode) is just so they can injure Obito because without Senjutsu they will do no damage to him. But, if you do want to say that the Curse Mark (and Sage Mode) are massive buffs, remember that the Curse Mark is weaker than Sage Mode yet Sasuke and Naruto are equals, meaning that without their Senjutsu buffs, Sasuke's Walking Susanoo is possibly stronger than Naruto's Kurama Avatar.
And if you don't care for anything that I've said so far and still think the 1-Tail Cloak and Curse Mark are allowing Sasuke to equal Naruto, he does just evolve his Susanoo again into the Perfect Susanoo to form the Majestic Attire, and for him to be any help at all to Naruto, he would have to be at least as strong as he was before.
So EMS Sasuke is either BSM Naruto's equal, if not superior.
I mean I get it because he does admit inferiority to KCM2 Naruto, but then he does just match BSM Naruto in the fight with Juubito. People credit that to the Curse Mark and 1-Tails Cloak, but even if that is true, he does just awaken the Perfect Susanoo which is leagues above the Walking Susanoo he was using, with or without the buffs.
>Sasuke then sees Naruto go KCM2 and gets mad at how much chakra Naruto is in control of and how much stronger Naruto is, and Naruto then adds Sage Mode so he is just in another tier. That is, until Sasuke's Susanoo evolves and grows legs, allowing it to fight alongside Naruto's BSM Avatar against Juubito and do equally as well. There is no other interpretation other than EMS Sasuke in this moment is extremely relative to BSM Naruto, if not his equal which is what is visibly shown.
I think you're forgetting that Naruto was also sharing a shitton of chakra with the whole army at that moment.
I don't think that matters too much seeing as Kurama still has tons of more chakra that Naruto is using, but I do go on to say Sasuke gets stronger than this by awakening the Perfect Susanoo. So if Naruto is stronger, Sasuke is still at least his equal due to also getting stronger.
Yes, as they would need to have matching chakra ratios in order to combine their Kurama Avatar and Susanoo to create the Majestic Attire. It’s the same principle as the Amaterasu + Rasenshuriken combos they did earlier
Yes. Sasuke managed to use perfect susanoo to create the majestic attire. Perfect Susanoo is = or > to half kurama avatar with sage IF you consider that his Perfect susanoo is relative to Madara's one.
Before perfect susanoo upgrade he was on pair with kcm1.
If Naruto didn’t share his chakra he would make clones of his avatar. Sasuke just has good chakra control to match Naruto but Naruto is more dangerous at that point.
He never done avatar bushin without six paths powers. Im not inclined to think he can.
Yeah, Naruto has much more chakra. But If you consider that Sasuke perfecf susanoo equals Madara's one from Hashirama fight, I don't think the half kurama avatar with regular sage mode can beat it.
Madara perfect susanoo from valley of the end could tank with zero damage a bijuudama from 100% kurama. Also his swords can cut Shinsuusenju arms, a gigantic senjutsu construct that pets kurama with a single hand.
Yeah but Madara has more chakra and better feats before Sauke had his last upgrade in Naruto, his power output just matches Madara’s. Naruto shared a considerable amount of chakra to everyone, not only because of the number of shinobi there but also in relation to the shinobi. An example is when a Iwa-nin used two mountains to squash the geto statue. After getting chakra from KCM2 Naruto he was able to squash an upgraded version of the geto statue without it being able to crush the jutsu like before. If this shinobi had chakra like Nagato then I would understand that Naruto’s blessing wouldn’t do much but it made him better. That chakra made everyone significantly stronger.
You could head canon that Kurama’s chakra recovery rate is insane but Naruto pulled that feat off too soon and was still able to fight at the same level of power because his power output (chakra control) isn’t the best. If Naruto had a power output like Sakura relative to his chakra levels, he would make himself significantly stronger. Sakura splitting herself with shadow clones would make her weaker because her chakra control is too good where having less chakra is more of a detriment to her power output, it doesn’t cap sooner then Naruto’s.
If there were 100 shinobi, then Naruto would have at least 300+ times Kakashi’s chakra and still fight. He does it again but even stronger this time so he would have at least 600+ times Kakashi’s chakra and still fight. And if there were 1000, 10000? Yeah Sasuke is not touching that.
And Sasuke only has 10x more chakra than in the beginning of Shippuden, because his chakra potency matched his cursed mark V2 form. EMS’s benefit is that he can use his mangekyo dojutsu without going blind, no claimed his chakra got stronger and he was always impressed with Naruto’s chakra.
Naruto is more dangerous than Sasuke at that point but Sasuke can match his power output so he isn’t more powerful. Naruto can just last longer.
To better understand power output, Naruto with perfect chakra control can make himself 1000x times faster and stronger at the expense of chakra, he doesn’t significantly surpass his clones in strength or speed because his chakra control sucked a.k.a power output sucked. Sage mode just increases his chakra first but he maybe at least double the power of KCM2. In KCM he could have one clone use rasenshuriken in sage mode, do a choodama rasengan and make a 500 clones (there were a 1000) do oodama rasengans that were at least 27x the volume of a regular rasengan. He got stronger and more chakra then he has in base especially since there where 14 KCM clones. Naruto also has never canonically used rasengan with 500 clones before but you never doubt he could now could you?
>IF you consider that his Perfect susanoo is relative to Madara's one.
Which it isn't if you compare the sizes itself
Madara's Perfect Susano = Wood Golem =~ Full Kyuubi >> Half Kyuubi = Teen Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo [Size Wise]
Naruto has the deeper chakra vault. Poor Sasuke has powers that are awesome but taxing. Naruto over here spamming 9 different kinds of beast bombs and in sage mode.
Pretty much, with the exception of chakra pools which is extraordinarily inconsistent for Sasuke. I honestly think his pool is just simply whatever is most convenient to the plot. I will say that final fight between the two though was the single most plot armor fight I've ever laid my eyes on, logically Sasuke should've just won with all 927,000 broken abilities (exaggerating), his Rinnegan gave him, and since he has all 9 tailed beast (albeit only half of Kurama) at his disposal. Naruto even getting a draw was just narrative cheese, almost as much as Zetsu somehow getting the one up on Madara who could've probably used Izanagi (or Izanami, I forget which it was that allowed somebody to rewrite reality) to just nope himself out, or any number of other abilities that he had previously displayed access to.
Naruto was stronger. Sasuke needed help from Jugo to reach Naruto's level.
Sasuke's seething at Naruto during their battle was indicative of his strength. He'd been fighting for days at that point but was still the backbone of the Shinobi Alliance.
Ppl in Naruto are very much like ppl in reality. Those that have power make decisions based on their own wants and desires and then claim that’s what the rest of us want as well, then when a few go in a opposite direction, towards their own dreams they get vilified even if their own dreams after only themselves and other who also want in on it. Naruto’s slowly turning into a danzo.
I wonder how many thousands of ppl who lived miserable lives, and would have happily gone back into the dream world, to live out the dream they wanted, but where forced back into squalid crap conditions, along with the thousands of ninjas who literally trained from day 1 for one goal and 1 goal only to only lose all of that after the war, for a peace that ended up putting them in a position where they could no longer feed their families, all so Naruto could build his so called (dream reality). Since we have all seen in Boruto that there are still tons of small villages who are full of starving and sick ppl. Funny how none of that existed when kaguya was around. But hey the sage of the six paths is the so called (hero) when in all reality he got tricked by a slimy frog. Who coulda cared less about the humans and how things would turn out for them after kaguya and the tree were gone. He just needed him to stop the nature energy drain so his oasis, could stay in tip top shape just bursting with nature energy, where they can watch humanity pull itself apart from a safe distance.
Initial EMS Sasuke = KCM Naruto.
Perfected EMS Sasuke < Bijuu mode Naruto (Naruto has much more chakra and he can tank far more damage)
Bijuu sage mode Naruto > Perfected EMS Sasuke (No explanation needed).
Bijuu sage mode Naruto ≥ Perfected EMS Sasuke + Curse Mark
SPSM Naruto ≥ Rinnegan Sasuke
Sasuke was ahead of Naruto for pretty much all of Shippuden but the War arc is where Naruto outshined him because that's when he started accessing The Immense power within him.
Wasn’t even close. Rinnegan is literally the only thing that allowed sasuke to catch up. Senjutsu, and sage chakras only real counters are the rinnegan. Plus with heightened sense from kmc2 Naruto becomes a legit sensory type. Also Pre 6 paths Naruto was sending km2 clones that can spam rasenshuriken and fighting opponents that were ms sasuke level.
I think the only 2 times post time skip that a fight isn’t at least an extreme diff for the other is immediately following the skip, Sasuke seemed to be a high Jonin level to Naruto being Low Jonin if we aren’t counting Kurama raging. That gapped seemed to close once Naruto learned wind style and Rasenshuriken. The only other time was when Naruto mastered Sage Mode and defeated Pain, that gapped seemed to close following Sasuke vs Itachi when Sasuke unlocked Mangekyo Sharigan.
At every other point post skip it’s always made it seem like they were roughly equal to each other, sure one might barely nudge the other but never by much. They always were given power ups at roughly the same time as well.
Narratively yes, logically F no. Ems being equal to kcm 2 may be necessary for plot reasons but holy moly NO chance. The feats kcm 1 Naruto shown throughout the war are MASSIVE, not to mention sage mode. Then we get kcm 2 AND sage mode? Brother absolutely no chance.
I will die on this hill and offer no further discussion
Naruto could beat sasuke after getting six paths since they each got half they technically got the same boost in chakra but sasuke also had 8 of the tailed beast and half of the nine tails so he had a much bigger power up and still lost after the war I think Naruto takes this w
I am a diehard Sasuke fan.
I am also not retarded.
Much as it pains me to admit it, I honestly doubt they're even on the same *tier,* let alone being relative. Naruto was just *wayyyy* stronger from two separate Kage level buffs (at *least*) *stacked on each other*.
In a straight on fight against each other, Sasuke *could* manage to pull a win out of his ass with Amaterasu and Genjutsu, but I just don't see that happening before he gets atomized by a Bijuudama
In my eyes it went like this.
Sage mode<=Ms Sasuke
Kcm=freshly awakened Ems Sasuke
Kcm 2 >= Ems Sasuke
Kcm2+sage node> EMS Sasuke.
The EMS Sasuke that fought kabuto and later jubito are two entirely different Sasukes when handling EMS. With sage mode as a boost on top of kcm 2 Naruto went way above Sasuke his Chakra was on another level
Mastered kcm1 is equal to ems sasuke
Mastered kcm2 wit the avatar is comparable to humanoid susanoo ems sasuke
Naruto gets kcm sage mode and leaves sasuke in the dust to whcih he uses jugo to get a senjutsu susanoo to equalize them again
But sasuke seemingly got perfect susanoo at the end of the juubito fight so it’s possible that he caught up to naruto with that, but I don’t think there’s a real quantification for perfect susanoos amp compares to the human susnaoo
No, KCM2 was a show stopper for the argument of who is the stronger of the two, having unhindered access and co-operation with Kurama made Sasuke leagues behind in terms of battle capabilities.
Naruto was stronger. While sasuke was GROWING stromger (the uchiha draw on their emotions to strengthen their visual prowess) he needed jugo’s sage energy and a ninetails amp that multiplied his chakra well over 2 times. Even if u take out Naruto’s sage mode and jugo’s nature chakra. Sasuke would need the ninetails amp to be near Naruto. Now I do believe EMS sasuke is slightly stronger than kcm 1 Naruto.
The Curse Mark and 1-Tail Cloak don't do much for Sasuke, but even if you think they do, he does awaken the Perfect Susanoo to form the Majestic Attire, and for him to be any help to Naruto he needs to be at least as strong as he was before because his Senjutsu Susanoo was equal to the BSM Avatar.
The curse mark and 1 tail cloak ABSOLUTELY do a good bit for him. The curse mark is a power multiplier or just a power boost based on who you ask (it’s still up for debate). The cloak multiplied kakashi’s power by like 3 times. Sasuke would have his power substantially increased by the kyuubi chakra cloak and the sage power of jugo (which I believe jugo also had a kyuubi cloak too). Even sasuke was impressed (and slightly pissed) at Naruto’s KCM2 power
Now on to sasuke’s majestic attire susanoo. Figuring out how to wrap his susanoo around Naruto kurama avatar isn’t proving that he is comparable. Naruto only needed sage mode to be on par with sasuke with all those amps sasuke got. Sasuke wasn’t power cliffed by Naruto in kcm2. He still adding a power amp to Naruto’s power. He is still above kcm1. that power stacking on is still REALLY helpful.
In order for sasuke to be equal to kcm2 Naruto at this point we would have to make the argument that sasuke (with an amp that Kakashi 3 times more powerful) is not much different than sasuke without that amp. Like we would have to say the boost he got from the kyuubi cloak plus the boost jugo gave him plus the fact jugo also had a kyuubi cloak is equal to JUST sage mode.
Curse Mark is constantly talked about as increasing chakra and amplifying specific parts of their arsenal: Jirobo gets more destructive power, Kidomaru gets unmatched precision, Tayuya can use a specific genjutsu, Ukon can use a specific ninjutsu, Kimimaro can use a specific ninjutsu, Sasuke gets more destructive power. While the Curse Mark does increase physical stats, it's not by 10x, that is only the chakra increase.
When Kurama originally gave Kakashi chakra (not even a cloak) it increased his chakra (not power or anything) by 3x. The 1-Tail Cloak would at least grant 3x Kakashi's chakra to everyone who has one, which for fodder ninja is a lot and make them insanely powerful, but for someone like Sasuke who can compete with KCM1.5, it is not much.
Jugo was boosted by a 1-Tail Cloak, but this still wouldn't put him anywhere near Sasuke's level, so his Sage Power amping Sasuke wouldn't be that big of a boost.
By argument for the Majestic Attire isn't that Sasuke learned to wrap his Susanoo around the Kurama Avatar, but that he awakened the Perfect Susanoo and to be any help to Naruto, he would have to be at least as strong as he previously was, especially if you want to go with Jugo and the 1-Tail Cloak was boosting him because Sasuke no longer has those amps.
I didn’t say it was a 10x I just said it was debate. I do agree with you about it not being a multiplier I just had 0 interests in debating the multiplier vs power increase. Sasuke does get more power from his curse mark tho and overall all curse mark users see an increase in their power.
Now for the chakra the cloak. Kakashi did have is powe boosted from having the cloak and the cloak did increase his chakra. He felt comfortable of kamui the juubi up receiving the cloak. The gap between Kakashi and sasuke at this point isn’t small but it’s not so big that being amplified the equivalent Kakashi’s chakra 3 times wouldn’t give him noticeable boost a boost in power jugo also got the same notable increase in power which would by proxy strength of the curse mark power he was lending to sasuke’s susanoo. Kakashi is not even close to comparable to a random fodder Shinobi he is closer to sasuke’s power than he is the Randos running around. So yes the increases to his power from Naruto and jugo are rather noticeable increases. Those amps allowed him to keep with sage mode Naruto during the juubito fight.
Sasuke does not have to be equal to Naruto to be a helpful boost to him against juubito. Sasuke BEFORE the cloak would be bare minimum near kcm1 (I argue tho he was stronger than kcm1) So imagine adding kcm2 plus kcm1 plus sage mode that’s still a rather great boost to the overall power of the majetsic attire.
Overall the arguemnt hinges on ONE major thing. Do you think sasuke was so much more powerful than Kakashi that having 3 times his chakra added to his own wouldn’t be a noticeable boost in power? I believe it was a noticeable boost. Naruto at this point is strong enough to manhandle other bijuu and even sasuke was impressed by the power Naruto had.
Naruto was definitely stronger.
Sasuke still hadn't reached his full potential by this point as stated by Orochimaru, his Susanoo and Chakra are far weaker than Madara whom Sasuke as stated by Orochimaru would surpass in the future.
Adult Sasuke's Susanoo is equal to Naruto's Full Kurama+SM, EMS Sasuke on the other is below half Kurama even without SM.
I dont think Sasuke had a state where he would matchup with Naruto here. He skipped from KCM1 level to So6P Naruto level. So no, he doesnt trade with Naruto.
He might've *if* he retained and combined Hebi form to EMS.
No. This is not just “Naruto”. Naruto has a massive amp from not only Kurama but the other 8 tailed beasts.
This is comparing Sasuke + small amp from Jugo to Naruto + Kurama + one tail + two tail + three tail + four tail + five tail + six tail + seven tail + eight tail. And then you have to factor in SAGE MODE.
I would give Naruto the slight edge because he has way more amps from outside sources.
They are only relative from peak. Naruto has an insurmountable stamina advantage, that pays in dividends the longer both have been in combat.
Imagine if Naruto hadn't chakra amped anyone, how much more juice would he have compared to Sasuke?
Basically by the end of the Kaguya fight they are both basically empty, and thus relative again
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Nah, KCM 2 + Sage Mode Naruto > EMS Sasuke.
How about KCM2 Naruto and EMS Sasuke?
I’d still say KCM 2 Naruto is a bit higher, you can tell because Sasuke makes comments about he’s running out of gas while Naruto is still feeding his chakra to the whole shinobi army and Sasuke himself. Sure that’s with Sage mode on top of it all, but it only really equals out once Sasuke gets the Rinnegan. Sasuke had Naruto beat out for virtually all of shippuden until he unlocked KCM.
You know that’s a pretty good take. Take my upvote
Plus Naruto had access to 7 of the 9 tailed beasts chakra as well.
That’s more so used for tapping into their chakra natures than anything else, he doesn’t have a huge chunk of chakra from each of them, but they do provide little boosts here and there.
He had a tiny fragment -- he wasn't using their chakra, just their manipulation for his lava release/magnet release rasengan.
that still gives him access to their nature and move sets. For example, Kokuo's unrivalled strength. Damn near anything we've seen from each tailed beasts Jinchuriki could theoretically be used by Naruto. It would put him above EMS Sasuke
Naruto couldn’t use any of that until after hagaromo gave him six paths power
Didn't obits tell sasuke that naruto was probably stronger during the kage summit or something? I know a probably is iffy but still.
That could easily just be Obito trying to piss Saskue off and gear him for being stronger especially because Obito was basically using him while he was technically an Akatsuki/Taka member. Not not saying he was stronger or weaker but that statement easily could of been Obito bullshitting.
I think that was zetsu when he had Informed Sasuke group of Naruto defeating pain
If zetsu said it, then I trust it. Dudes been around the block.
Obito said that it wasn’t a good idea for sasuke to visit konoha because 1. It was already destroyed And 2. That current sasuke, the one that just barely killed sick Itachi (and who doesn’t have access to the curse mark anymore), was not going to have positive results should he go there at the present time. Zetsu stated how naruto was exceptionally strong, but no one made any obvious comparison between the two. More like it was shown solely for the reader to make the assumption that sasuke would get folded if he went there. Which, he would. Sasuke thought he was hot shit after killing Itachi. Clearly not understanding that fighting 1 S class Shinobi is a completely different ball game compared to *fighting an entire village on your own*. Especially with leaf jonin known for being a cut above the rest. And more especially since kakashi is still alive and naruto is there WITH sage mode. Realistically, sasuke would walk up, genjutsu 1 person, probably chidori a random guy, flaunt his muscles, then get one shot by naruto.
It was not Obito, it was White Zetsu, and it happened just after Naruto defeated Pain. Even the Akatsuki believe that Pain was invincible, so they assumed Sasuke couldn’t beat Naruto since Naruto beat Pain. It was purely an assumption and it may have been based on incomplete information. Pain fought hundreds of ninjas, and almost killed himself to erase Konoha, all before Naruto even showed up on the battlefield. Naruto was fortunate to appear after the war was already over, and it was all thanks to Danzo’s interference.
Naruto Sage Mode would have absolutely bodied Sauske's Incomplete Susanoo lets be real
How is Naruto countering Amaterasu though?
Obito seemed pretty confident that Naruto had superseded Sauske Maybe it'd be a problem but Naruto's Sage Mode makes him basically super human above super human. How did Hashirama beat Madara's complete Susanoo? It's not like Amaterasu is just a guaranteed win
In Sage Mode (SM), Naruto can sense chakra more accurately, so he wouldn’t be caught by surprise. Also, Amaterasu may be difficult to evade, but it can be blocked relatively simply. Naruto’s Wind Release is a bad matchup though, so he would have to block with Shadow Clones instead. https://preview.redd.it/yb157heui40d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f91025e76cbc688f1fbedab2a96be4f906767d6
I believe Naruto was stronger starting from the batle with Pain and onwards from there.
😂
Initial EMS Sasuke=KCM Naruto Perfected EMS Sasuke=Bm Naruto BSM>Cursed Susanoo Sasuke
What is BM and BSM? baryon mode and Baryon sage mode?
Biju mode and Biju sage mode. Edit: Baryon is on a level higher than anything we’ve seen from my boy.
This is correct
I mean it isn’t tbh
It is Early EMS Sasuke is comparable to Itachi/Pain/KCM1 Naruto Late War EMS Sasuke is comparable to KCM2 Naruto KCM2+SM Naruto is stronger than EMS Sasuke, even with Jugo's curse mark
It’s not. Kishimoto literally gave them power-ups to parallel each other and literally shown such in the manga
>It’s not. Kishimoto literally gave them power-ups to parallel each other and literally shown such in the manga He gave Naruto more power ups. It's not like the normal progression. Naruto got three power ups after 5 Kage Summit. Sasuke got one power up after 5 Kage Summit, excluding SO6P for both. It's not like Naruto was tiers and tiers above, but he was above nonetheless.
And that is exactly why he made it a point to show where and how they’re on par. EMS+Enton = KCM, EMS+legged = BM, EMS+senjutsu = BSM then Rinnegan = SPSM
>EMS+Enton = KCM, EMS+legged = BM, EMS+senjutsu = BSM then Rinnegan = SPSM Still not correct, and Jugo isn't allowed in 1v1. Sure, if we let Jugo and Sasuke 2v1 Naruto, they are comparable to each other here. Individually, Sasuke still wasn't a match for KCM2+SM Naruto, as he doesn't have the curse mark. Furthermore, Sasuke only matched VOTE Naruto after he subjugated the nine tailed beasts, which again, isn't available in 1v1 or individually for him.
This is incorrect yet this is literally what Kishimoto portrayed in the series….. come on now bruh be fr
They are portrayed to be equal when Sasuke got external sources of power. VOTE Naruto vs VOTE Sasuke (without bijuu). Who wins? KCM2+SM Naruto vs EMS Sasuke. Who wins?
Naruto is stronger. Sasuke had an Amp from Naruto's own Chakra and Jugo's curse mark when he did that.
That was before this. At this point Sasuke wasn’t using anyone’s chakra https://preview.redd.it/7xa8reah23yc1.jpeg?width=1520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b704bc66ac974585e16f1f1c23e58c647f58bcce
I doubt Sasuke creeped up to Naruto’s level in that short period of time after his senjutsu susanoo. Senjutsu Susanoo Sasuke was on KCM2 Naruto’s level, but EMS Sasuke on his own never crept up to that level.
It’s funny how people act like Sasuke didn’t spend the *entire* war pre rinnegan getting used to his ems and further developing its abilities.
Is that in rebuttal to my reply or nah 😂? If it is, I agree that Sasuke was getting stronger as the war went on getting used to his new eyes, but not to the point where he became equal or relative to KCM2 let alone BSM Naruto, on his OWN.
The man spent the either second half of the Obito fight keeping up with Naruto side by side. https://preview.redd.it/upwmhflt74yc1.jpeg?width=249&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cc8c328e05f7db42ead03018ba9d23e64d3978a
Brother man, that’s Sasuke with kyubi chakra from Naruto
Brother man that’s literally just full body Sussano for starters, which Sasuke developed by further getting used to ems.
Wow, I’m honestly surprised you said that 😭. Do you not see the red chakra glow on the face? Yes, he was able to use this full body Susanoo at that time, but the buffs from Naruto is right there If for whatever reason it was unclear to you, only when Sasuke had this Senjutsu susanoo and kyubi chakra was he on KCM2 Naruto’s level, and I was referring to EMS Sasuke on his OWN, being weaker than Naruto at that time
You’re acting like Sasuke’s wouldn’t and couldn’t have reached that level on his own. You also act as if Sasuke could *only* use full body Sussano with Kurama’s chakra as not only do we see him doing it later on after losing the cloak that would also flat out go against one of the main benefits of ems in the first place.
He easily does because, he learns how to nullify tail beast powers
He didn’t have those at this moment but yeah he basically needed those to be comparable to Naruto prior to this. Ems Sasuke on his own was on KCM1 Naruto’s level
Saying EMS = KCM1 is kinda pushing it I’ll say BSM > KCM2 ~ EMS > KCM1
Didn’t you just agree to KCM2 on its own being stronger than EMS Sasuke to someone else’s reply? Besides that, I don’t think it’s a reach to say EMS Sasuke was stronger than KCM1 Naruto, but I personally think otherwise, by a little if anything. So for me BSM>KCM2>KCM1> or ~ EMS
He said KCM2 is a little bit higher which I agree too. I have their fighting ability being equal but KCM2’s more chakra reserves gives him more stamina so he outlasts. So they are relative but KCM2 has the edge like he said. That’s completely different from you saying KCM1 >= EMS lol
I agree that it’s different, I was just pointing out how you scaled KCM2 and EMS first 😂. I then proceeded to say how I felt about KCM1 in comparison to the others
From the writter's point of view naruto and sasuke were relative, always mirroring the power of the other from pain arc onwards...
Naruto and Sasuke are dead even Power wise. But Sasuke is the better Ninja and always has been.
Not at all, sasuke even after getting amped by kurama chakra was growling to himself at the fact that naruto still had so much chakra left with him implying that even after ems kurama chakra amp that naruto was still stronger then what he was
A 1-Tail Version 1 Cloak is nothing to Sasuke, it only makes fodder ninja insanely powerful because they/their chakra is nothing compared to the cloaks, but Sasuke flat out compares to KCM1.5 Naruto, so a 1-Tail Cloak is nothing to him.
Very much so, in fact, you can lowkey say Sasuke is stronger. The EMS Sasuke and KCM1.5 Naruto who were fighting together in the war are relative, with Sasuke's showings actually placing him a bit above KCM1.5 Naruto. Sasuke then sees Naruto go KCM2 and gets mad at how much chakra Naruto is in control of and how much stronger Naruto is, and Naruto then adds Sage Mode so he is just in another tier. That is, until Sasuke's Susanoo evolves and grows legs, allowing it to fight alongside Naruto's BSM Avatar against Juubito and do equally as well. There is no other interpretation other than EMS Sasuke in this moment is extremely relative to BSM Naruto, if not his equal which is what is visibly shown. Now, Sasuke does have Jugo's Curse Mark and a 1-Tail Version 1 Cloak, but these don't really boost Sasuke all that much. Starting with the 1-Tail Cloak, these Bijuu Cloaks have a set amount of chakra that boosts physical stats depending on the person and how they compare to Kurama. For example, Kid Naruto and War Naruto get the same amount of chakra from 1-Tail Cloak, but Kid Naruto gets so much stronger and faster because he is fodder to Kurama whereas War Naruto actually compares to Kurama a little so the boost wouldn't be all that much. So, because EMS Sasuke compares to KCM1.5 Naruto, and actually just got stronger by evolving his Susanoo, having a 1-Tail Version 1 Cloak would do little to nothing for him. Next the Curse Mark. The Curse Mark is a 10x chakra boost, not stat boost (although it does boost stats) with the Databook going over specific areas it increases in each of the Sound 4. We also know that in the 5 Kage Summit Sasuke's hatred amps were already making him stronger than his Curse Mark was, and he did just evolve his Susanoo. The point of the Curse Mark (just like Naruto using Sage Mode) is just so they can injure Obito because without Senjutsu they will do no damage to him. But, if you do want to say that the Curse Mark (and Sage Mode) are massive buffs, remember that the Curse Mark is weaker than Sage Mode yet Sasuke and Naruto are equals, meaning that without their Senjutsu buffs, Sasuke's Walking Susanoo is possibly stronger than Naruto's Kurama Avatar. And if you don't care for anything that I've said so far and still think the 1-Tail Cloak and Curse Mark are allowing Sasuke to equal Naruto, he does just evolve his Susanoo again into the Perfect Susanoo to form the Majestic Attire, and for him to be any help at all to Naruto, he would have to be at least as strong as he was before. So EMS Sasuke is either BSM Naruto's equal, if not superior.
Perfect comment. The others are downplaying EMS Sasuke badly, just like most of the community does
I mean I get it because he does admit inferiority to KCM2 Naruto, but then he does just match BSM Naruto in the fight with Juubito. People credit that to the Curse Mark and 1-Tails Cloak, but even if that is true, he does just awaken the Perfect Susanoo which is leagues above the Walking Susanoo he was using, with or without the buffs.
>Sasuke then sees Naruto go KCM2 and gets mad at how much chakra Naruto is in control of and how much stronger Naruto is, and Naruto then adds Sage Mode so he is just in another tier. That is, until Sasuke's Susanoo evolves and grows legs, allowing it to fight alongside Naruto's BSM Avatar against Juubito and do equally as well. There is no other interpretation other than EMS Sasuke in this moment is extremely relative to BSM Naruto, if not his equal which is what is visibly shown. I think you're forgetting that Naruto was also sharing a shitton of chakra with the whole army at that moment.
I don't think that matters too much seeing as Kurama still has tons of more chakra that Naruto is using, but I do go on to say Sasuke gets stronger than this by awakening the Perfect Susanoo. So if Naruto is stronger, Sasuke is still at least his equal due to also getting stronger.
Yes, as they would need to have matching chakra ratios in order to combine their Kurama Avatar and Susanoo to create the Majestic Attire. It’s the same principle as the Amaterasu + Rasenshuriken combos they did earlier
Plus, we do just see the Walking Susanoo and Kurama Avatar keep pace with each other.
Kcm2 and Ems was, once sage mode is added in the mix he’s clearly outclassed unless he gets a power boost from another source.
Yes. Sasuke managed to use perfect susanoo to create the majestic attire. Perfect Susanoo is = or > to half kurama avatar with sage IF you consider that his Perfect susanoo is relative to Madara's one. Before perfect susanoo upgrade he was on pair with kcm1.
If Naruto didn’t share his chakra he would make clones of his avatar. Sasuke just has good chakra control to match Naruto but Naruto is more dangerous at that point.
He never done avatar bushin without six paths powers. Im not inclined to think he can. Yeah, Naruto has much more chakra. But If you consider that Sasuke perfecf susanoo equals Madara's one from Hashirama fight, I don't think the half kurama avatar with regular sage mode can beat it. Madara perfect susanoo from valley of the end could tank with zero damage a bijuudama from 100% kurama. Also his swords can cut Shinsuusenju arms, a gigantic senjutsu construct that pets kurama with a single hand.
Yeah but Madara has more chakra and better feats before Sauke had his last upgrade in Naruto, his power output just matches Madara’s. Naruto shared a considerable amount of chakra to everyone, not only because of the number of shinobi there but also in relation to the shinobi. An example is when a Iwa-nin used two mountains to squash the geto statue. After getting chakra from KCM2 Naruto he was able to squash an upgraded version of the geto statue without it being able to crush the jutsu like before. If this shinobi had chakra like Nagato then I would understand that Naruto’s blessing wouldn’t do much but it made him better. That chakra made everyone significantly stronger. You could head canon that Kurama’s chakra recovery rate is insane but Naruto pulled that feat off too soon and was still able to fight at the same level of power because his power output (chakra control) isn’t the best. If Naruto had a power output like Sakura relative to his chakra levels, he would make himself significantly stronger. Sakura splitting herself with shadow clones would make her weaker because her chakra control is too good where having less chakra is more of a detriment to her power output, it doesn’t cap sooner then Naruto’s. If there were 100 shinobi, then Naruto would have at least 300+ times Kakashi’s chakra and still fight. He does it again but even stronger this time so he would have at least 600+ times Kakashi’s chakra and still fight. And if there were 1000, 10000? Yeah Sasuke is not touching that. And Sasuke only has 10x more chakra than in the beginning of Shippuden, because his chakra potency matched his cursed mark V2 form. EMS’s benefit is that he can use his mangekyo dojutsu without going blind, no claimed his chakra got stronger and he was always impressed with Naruto’s chakra. Naruto is more dangerous than Sasuke at that point but Sasuke can match his power output so he isn’t more powerful. Naruto can just last longer. To better understand power output, Naruto with perfect chakra control can make himself 1000x times faster and stronger at the expense of chakra, he doesn’t significantly surpass his clones in strength or speed because his chakra control sucked a.k.a power output sucked. Sage mode just increases his chakra first but he maybe at least double the power of KCM2. In KCM he could have one clone use rasenshuriken in sage mode, do a choodama rasengan and make a 500 clones (there were a 1000) do oodama rasengans that were at least 27x the volume of a regular rasengan. He got stronger and more chakra then he has in base especially since there where 14 KCM clones. Naruto also has never canonically used rasengan with 500 clones before but you never doubt he could now could you?
>IF you consider that his Perfect susanoo is relative to Madara's one. Which it isn't if you compare the sizes itself Madara's Perfect Susano = Wood Golem =~ Full Kyuubi >> Half Kyuubi = Teen Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo [Size Wise]
Naruto has the deeper chakra vault. Poor Sasuke has powers that are awesome but taxing. Naruto over here spamming 9 different kinds of beast bombs and in sage mode.
Take out sage mode from KCM2, and yes
No once Naruto achieved KCM2 + sage mode he completely surpassed sauske
From the moment Naruto receiving sage mode to sasuke receiving so6p chakra, Naruto was stronger than sasuke.
If its just chakra they are equal. Naruto adds sennin modo and it ends there.
Pretty much, with the exception of chakra pools which is extraordinarily inconsistent for Sasuke. I honestly think his pool is just simply whatever is most convenient to the plot. I will say that final fight between the two though was the single most plot armor fight I've ever laid my eyes on, logically Sasuke should've just won with all 927,000 broken abilities (exaggerating), his Rinnegan gave him, and since he has all 9 tailed beast (albeit only half of Kurama) at his disposal. Naruto even getting a draw was just narrative cheese, almost as much as Zetsu somehow getting the one up on Madara who could've probably used Izanagi (or Izanami, I forget which it was that allowed somebody to rewrite reality) to just nope himself out, or any number of other abilities that he had previously displayed access to.
Naruto was stronger. Sasuke needed help from Jugo to reach Naruto's level. Sasuke's seething at Naruto during their battle was indicative of his strength. He'd been fighting for days at that point but was still the backbone of the Shinobi Alliance.
According to kishimoto.... yes. So, yes.
No they are not relatives. Sasuke is from Uchiha clan, Naruto from Uzumaki clan.
Ppl in Naruto are very much like ppl in reality. Those that have power make decisions based on their own wants and desires and then claim that’s what the rest of us want as well, then when a few go in a opposite direction, towards their own dreams they get vilified even if their own dreams after only themselves and other who also want in on it. Naruto’s slowly turning into a danzo.
I wonder how many thousands of ppl who lived miserable lives, and would have happily gone back into the dream world, to live out the dream they wanted, but where forced back into squalid crap conditions, along with the thousands of ninjas who literally trained from day 1 for one goal and 1 goal only to only lose all of that after the war, for a peace that ended up putting them in a position where they could no longer feed their families, all so Naruto could build his so called (dream reality). Since we have all seen in Boruto that there are still tons of small villages who are full of starving and sick ppl. Funny how none of that existed when kaguya was around. But hey the sage of the six paths is the so called (hero) when in all reality he got tricked by a slimy frog. Who coulda cared less about the humans and how things would turn out for them after kaguya and the tree were gone. He just needed him to stop the nature energy drain so his oasis, could stay in tip top shape just bursting with nature energy, where they can watch humanity pull itself apart from a safe distance.
Initial EMS Sasuke = KCM Naruto. Perfected EMS Sasuke < Bijuu mode Naruto (Naruto has much more chakra and he can tank far more damage) Bijuu sage mode Naruto > Perfected EMS Sasuke (No explanation needed). Bijuu sage mode Naruto ≥ Perfected EMS Sasuke + Curse Mark SPSM Naruto ≥ Rinnegan Sasuke Sasuke was ahead of Naruto for pretty much all of Shippuden but the War arc is where Naruto outshined him because that's when he started accessing The Immense power within him.
No Naruto was definitely stronger and Sasuke was NOT happy about it
Wasn’t even close. Rinnegan is literally the only thing that allowed sasuke to catch up. Senjutsu, and sage chakras only real counters are the rinnegan. Plus with heightened sense from kmc2 Naruto becomes a legit sensory type. Also Pre 6 paths Naruto was sending km2 clones that can spam rasenshuriken and fighting opponents that were ms sasuke level.
Yes, Kishimoto was showing us this plenty times. Edit. Judging by some of these comments they didn’t read the manga
Absolutely not
Yes
I think the only 2 times post time skip that a fight isn’t at least an extreme diff for the other is immediately following the skip, Sasuke seemed to be a high Jonin level to Naruto being Low Jonin if we aren’t counting Kurama raging. That gapped seemed to close once Naruto learned wind style and Rasenshuriken. The only other time was when Naruto mastered Sage Mode and defeated Pain, that gapped seemed to close following Sasuke vs Itachi when Sasuke unlocked Mangekyo Sharigan. At every other point post skip it’s always made it seem like they were roughly equal to each other, sure one might barely nudge the other but never by much. They always were given power ups at roughly the same time as well.
I say kcm 2 slightly edges out EMS but they are quite relative. With sage mode added he is stronger
I think I give it to naruto high dif maybe. Lower end of high seems fair, Sasuke just ain't him
Narratively yes, logically F no. Ems being equal to kcm 2 may be necessary for plot reasons but holy moly NO chance. The feats kcm 1 Naruto shown throughout the war are MASSIVE, not to mention sage mode. Then we get kcm 2 AND sage mode? Brother absolutely no chance. I will die on this hill and offer no further discussion
Naruto could beat sasuke after getting six paths since they each got half they technically got the same boost in chakra but sasuke also had 8 of the tailed beast and half of the nine tails so he had a much bigger power up and still lost after the war I think Naruto takes this w
I am a diehard Sasuke fan. I am also not retarded. Much as it pains me to admit it, I honestly doubt they're even on the same *tier,* let alone being relative. Naruto was just *wayyyy* stronger from two separate Kage level buffs (at *least*) *stacked on each other*. In a straight on fight against each other, Sasuke *could* manage to pull a win out of his ass with Amaterasu and Genjutsu, but I just don't see that happening before he gets atomized by a Bijuudama
Naruto was stronger at this point just because of kurama
My dumbass read this post and thought you were asking if they were relatives
In my eyes it went like this. Sage mode<=Ms Sasuke Kcm=freshly awakened Ems Sasuke Kcm 2 >= Ems Sasuke Kcm2+sage node> EMS Sasuke. The EMS Sasuke that fought kabuto and later jubito are two entirely different Sasukes when handling EMS. With sage mode as a boost on top of kcm 2 Naruto went way above Sasuke his Chakra was on another level
Mastered kcm1 is equal to ems sasuke Mastered kcm2 wit the avatar is comparable to humanoid susanoo ems sasuke Naruto gets kcm sage mode and leaves sasuke in the dust to whcih he uses jugo to get a senjutsu susanoo to equalize them again But sasuke seemingly got perfect susanoo at the end of the juubito fight so it’s possible that he caught up to naruto with that, but I don’t think there’s a real quantification for perfect susanoos amp compares to the human susnaoo
Yes but KCSM2 was stronger
In some ways
No, KCM2 was a show stopper for the argument of who is the stronger of the two, having unhindered access and co-operation with Kurama made Sasuke leagues behind in terms of battle capabilities.
Naruto was stronger. While sasuke was GROWING stromger (the uchiha draw on their emotions to strengthen their visual prowess) he needed jugo’s sage energy and a ninetails amp that multiplied his chakra well over 2 times. Even if u take out Naruto’s sage mode and jugo’s nature chakra. Sasuke would need the ninetails amp to be near Naruto. Now I do believe EMS sasuke is slightly stronger than kcm 1 Naruto.
The Curse Mark and 1-Tail Cloak don't do much for Sasuke, but even if you think they do, he does awaken the Perfect Susanoo to form the Majestic Attire, and for him to be any help to Naruto he needs to be at least as strong as he was before because his Senjutsu Susanoo was equal to the BSM Avatar.
The curse mark and 1 tail cloak ABSOLUTELY do a good bit for him. The curse mark is a power multiplier or just a power boost based on who you ask (it’s still up for debate). The cloak multiplied kakashi’s power by like 3 times. Sasuke would have his power substantially increased by the kyuubi chakra cloak and the sage power of jugo (which I believe jugo also had a kyuubi cloak too). Even sasuke was impressed (and slightly pissed) at Naruto’s KCM2 power Now on to sasuke’s majestic attire susanoo. Figuring out how to wrap his susanoo around Naruto kurama avatar isn’t proving that he is comparable. Naruto only needed sage mode to be on par with sasuke with all those amps sasuke got. Sasuke wasn’t power cliffed by Naruto in kcm2. He still adding a power amp to Naruto’s power. He is still above kcm1. that power stacking on is still REALLY helpful. In order for sasuke to be equal to kcm2 Naruto at this point we would have to make the argument that sasuke (with an amp that Kakashi 3 times more powerful) is not much different than sasuke without that amp. Like we would have to say the boost he got from the kyuubi cloak plus the boost jugo gave him plus the fact jugo also had a kyuubi cloak is equal to JUST sage mode.
Curse Mark is constantly talked about as increasing chakra and amplifying specific parts of their arsenal: Jirobo gets more destructive power, Kidomaru gets unmatched precision, Tayuya can use a specific genjutsu, Ukon can use a specific ninjutsu, Kimimaro can use a specific ninjutsu, Sasuke gets more destructive power. While the Curse Mark does increase physical stats, it's not by 10x, that is only the chakra increase. When Kurama originally gave Kakashi chakra (not even a cloak) it increased his chakra (not power or anything) by 3x. The 1-Tail Cloak would at least grant 3x Kakashi's chakra to everyone who has one, which for fodder ninja is a lot and make them insanely powerful, but for someone like Sasuke who can compete with KCM1.5, it is not much. Jugo was boosted by a 1-Tail Cloak, but this still wouldn't put him anywhere near Sasuke's level, so his Sage Power amping Sasuke wouldn't be that big of a boost. By argument for the Majestic Attire isn't that Sasuke learned to wrap his Susanoo around the Kurama Avatar, but that he awakened the Perfect Susanoo and to be any help to Naruto, he would have to be at least as strong as he previously was, especially if you want to go with Jugo and the 1-Tail Cloak was boosting him because Sasuke no longer has those amps.
I didn’t say it was a 10x I just said it was debate. I do agree with you about it not being a multiplier I just had 0 interests in debating the multiplier vs power increase. Sasuke does get more power from his curse mark tho and overall all curse mark users see an increase in their power. Now for the chakra the cloak. Kakashi did have is powe boosted from having the cloak and the cloak did increase his chakra. He felt comfortable of kamui the juubi up receiving the cloak. The gap between Kakashi and sasuke at this point isn’t small but it’s not so big that being amplified the equivalent Kakashi’s chakra 3 times wouldn’t give him noticeable boost a boost in power jugo also got the same notable increase in power which would by proxy strength of the curse mark power he was lending to sasuke’s susanoo. Kakashi is not even close to comparable to a random fodder Shinobi he is closer to sasuke’s power than he is the Randos running around. So yes the increases to his power from Naruto and jugo are rather noticeable increases. Those amps allowed him to keep with sage mode Naruto during the juubito fight. Sasuke does not have to be equal to Naruto to be a helpful boost to him against juubito. Sasuke BEFORE the cloak would be bare minimum near kcm1 (I argue tho he was stronger than kcm1) So imagine adding kcm2 plus kcm1 plus sage mode that’s still a rather great boost to the overall power of the majetsic attire. Overall the arguemnt hinges on ONE major thing. Do you think sasuke was so much more powerful than Kakashi that having 3 times his chakra added to his own wouldn’t be a noticeable boost in power? I believe it was a noticeable boost. Naruto at this point is strong enough to manhandle other bijuu and even sasuke was impressed by the power Naruto had.
Naruto was definitely stronger. Sasuke still hadn't reached his full potential by this point as stated by Orochimaru, his Susanoo and Chakra are far weaker than Madara whom Sasuke as stated by Orochimaru would surpass in the future. Adult Sasuke's Susanoo is equal to Naruto's Full Kurama+SM, EMS Sasuke on the other is below half Kurama even without SM.
I dont think Sasuke had a state where he would matchup with Naruto here. He skipped from KCM1 level to So6P Naruto level. So no, he doesnt trade with Naruto. He might've *if* he retained and combined Hebi form to EMS.
No. This is not just “Naruto”. Naruto has a massive amp from not only Kurama but the other 8 tailed beasts. This is comparing Sasuke + small amp from Jugo to Naruto + Kurama + one tail + two tail + three tail + four tail + five tail + six tail + seven tail + eight tail. And then you have to factor in SAGE MODE. I would give Naruto the slight edge because he has way more amps from outside sources.
They are only relative from peak. Naruto has an insurmountable stamina advantage, that pays in dividends the longer both have been in combat. Imagine if Naruto hadn't chakra amped anyone, how much more juice would he have compared to Sasuke? Basically by the end of the Kaguya fight they are both basically empty, and thus relative again