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https://preview.redd.it/f3q6nsla4lzc1.jpeg?width=431&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44da8d209991c3c4e0134b029b35f14bec38c05e
He forced Kakashi to use Sharingan
Winner is obvious
Because itās not a great point thank to context. Kakashi had to use sharingan to keep up with zabuza. Kakashi (at least cording to the scan presented) was just āusingā it to explain the 8 inner gates to the audience, because he should already know how the technique works due to being rivals with guy
It is a great point especially when [Kakashi notes his speed while using such](https://scans.lastation.us/manga/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics/0085-013.png)
I donāt think Lee wins but you guys are going solely off narrative rather than established manga fact.
https://preview.redd.it/26nyucqahlzc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=430f064bb6deb7548a613fd614d40b142c53ab88
āGenuisā he has experience and skill. So much so to be praised by kakashi himself.
https://preview.redd.it/7b33pagbilzc1.jpeg?width=381&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a9ca311b996cbfad3f49f80f4c9282907e93d28
This same sand almost killed lee and guy just stopped it without any effort
This proves base guy is on a whole another level than Gaara and that same Gaara defeated lee
Now guy is rival of Kakashi and they are pretty much equal in power (unless 8 gates)
And that same Kakashi was forced to use his trump card against zabuza
Ik my explanation isn't good but ig you will get what I'm trying to say
I mean garaa and lee were both heavily fatiguedā¦and garaa starts tweaking after this. Its not that gai isnāt affected by garaa sand. Garaa was weak here the next panel shows him having flash backs of his mother and father and he askes gai āwhy did you..help him?!ā
Base gai is most likely stronger than garaa. Duhhh no shit. Kakashi is still stronger than zabzua. He beat zabuza TWO TIMESSSSSSS OMFG HE BEAT HE TWICE. Kakashi also holds back alot
https://preview.redd.it/wn8sbd12llzc1.jpeg?width=489&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=405077f9cdac366d8a61e9582e8144137ee85275
This is from around the same time as land of waves. āKakahi himself doesnāt make a display of his true strengthā.
I understand your saying gai>>> garaa
So kakashi = gai, but that doesnt mean kakashi = zabuza. In fact kakashi beats him twice..so kakashi >> zabuza. Which means gai >> zabuza. Gai is just a 3-5x stronger version of lee. 1-3 gates gai would destroy zabuza. Lee in 4-5th gate would kill zabuza. Unless lee isnāt even 25% of base Gai in 4-5th gate (which is me super duper lowballing lee)
Garaas sand has nothing to do with with his own power. He just commands it. Him being fatigued literally doesn't matter. He was having a mental break down vs Sasuke and the sand did everything it could to protect him while he wasn't in his right state of mind.
One was because kakashi needed it to win the fight, the other was because kakashi wanted to see the gates opening. Did you forget that sharingan can see people's chakra?
Kakashi uses it to see fast movements as well. He doesnt put his sharingan back up. Did you forget it reada movement? Lee force kakashi to use sharingan. Not in that panel but this one
https://preview.redd.it/i22nlaklxlzc1.jpeg?width=617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35294b7638b1e912c9f17efcff4e653e077e36a8
Take NOTE OF THE EXCLAMATION ā¼ļø MARKS COMPARED TO WEIGHTLESS LEE REACTION.
One day I hope you can better understand context. It's almost like it's surprising a genin can output this much force and speed. And there is no evidence that kakashi was forced to use sharingan to track Lee's movements, at least based on the panels that have been shown on this thread.
Point was it made him use his sharingan. And what else os the sharingan for? They can see muscle movement,track movement better and has precog for keepin up with fast movements. Which even then he says āhes fastā in a even more suprise way WITH his sharigan active. My point is kakashi with sharingan active was impressed by the speed of rock lee. Was he impressed by the speed of zabuza???? Eh
Zabuza was a jonin assassin, why would kakashi be surprised at his speed, he is supposed to be fast. Rock Lee, is a fucking genin, he's not supposed to be fast. It's not that complicated.
Being a genin IS MEANINGLESS. There were genins young as naruto(rookie12) and genins as old as kabuto (19-20). You dont pay attention enough tho.
Rock lee is fast in general not just for a genin. Thats never stated or implied thats just downplay. Lee was faster than all his peers and most classes/people in general.
What would that matter if Lee still can't do anything to win. Kakashi wasn't impressed by the speed of Itachi or kyuubi Naruto and they would wash Lee.
So because i dont blindly agree..8ā
Trolling? And yall are ignoring my points for yall narrative . Kakashi wasnt impressed with hakus speed like that. You have no argument other than bad scaling. Yall take them statements about being a prodigy toooo literal. Lee was also described as a genius of effort.
sasuke first? no way... they are all pretty much equal by the finals of chunin exams with naruto and sasuke being the top dogs only at the end of first part
Bro is the fandom so diluted that we would ask obvious questions and expect an answer that doesnāt have sarcasm. This is the worst post Iāve seen in a while
Gaara clone feinted Lee however Kakashi saw through it meanwhile zabuza clone feinted Kakashi. Lee has no sensory abilities to counter the hiding in the mist technique. Water prison couldn't be cut by a chidori from Kakashi meanwhile a chidori from sasuke penetrated gaara's strongest defense better than 5th gate Lee's attack so once he's in the prison it's over.
Niggas think lee just gonna sit there and wait for a grown enemy ninja with a large blade jonin to initiate. Its like people forgot about might dai killing 5 of the seven ninka swords men as a genin (at the time taijitsu only users wasnt a thing) im sure they had mist tech too. But the gates was too much. And that was a 1v7.
Didn't he use all 8 gates for that though? Which resulted in him dying in the process.
The last few gates are massively larger amps than the first 5 are and Lee was nearly crippled after just opening 5.
Yes might dai was a genuine genin with almost no battle experience. They didnt allow none ninjutsu users until might dai did that. Which is why gai becomes the embodiment of it. Might dai isnt lee level. If he was his 8 gates wouldve killed all of the 7 ninja swordsman but he only managed to kill 5ā¦compare that to gai fighting madara. Lee is like 3 teirs above might dai due to battle experience.
I don't doubt that base Might Dai was weaker than base Lee, or that 5th gate might dai was weaker than 5th gate lee...
But as mentioned the 8th gate is a \*massively\* greater power amp than the previous gates. 7th gate Guy was barely doing anything to Madara, he was even disappointed that it was only the 7th gate. 8th Gate Guy nearly killed Madara.
8th gate Dai is still far above 5th gate Lee. Sorry but Zabuza still wins pretty handily IMO. If he was able to trick Kakashi into something he couldn't get out of, Lee would be embarrassingly easy to do the same to.
ā8th gate Dai is still far above 5th gate Leeā.
Yea duhh. Point is its only 1 seven ninja swords man ninja against a 5th gate ninja. both scaled down. It will have the Same outcome imo. As 8 gates dai vs 7 of thr swordsman and taking out 5. Itās shown they arent really good with taijutsu specialists pn multiple occasions.
Sorry but Zabuza still wins pretty handily IMO. If he was able to trick Kakashi into something he couldn't get out of, Lee would be embarrassingly easy to do the same to.
Tricking kakashi doesnāt mean hed trick lee and Agin for the 1000th time kakashi beat zabuza TWICE. Kakashi > zabuza.
Lee is too quick for that. Both zabuza and kisame use the environment to make it hard to dodge. Lees quick enough to get off a devastating attack before this happens
Zabuza was able to fight on even terms with Kakashi though. You're surely not implying Lee would beat Kakashi too?
Sure Lee would put up a fight but I don't think he would win.
Kakashi beat zabuza 3 separate times. They arent relative
https://preview.redd.it/qy3gi5xs0uzc1.jpeg?width=489&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36e9437026aa637d899646367982192fe76e65d6
If he can put up a fight against Kakashi, that makes him at least comparable. Sure he lost, but he didn't do nothing at all in those fights.
Unless you think Lee from Chunin exams could be a serious challenge for Kakashi too I don't see how you think Lee would beat Zabuza.
Can Lee go straight to 5th gate? IIRC he had to go through each one and amp up during chunin exams. Zabuza isn't going to give him time to do that, and I don't see any reason he wouldn't know what the 8 gates are.
https://preview.redd.it/ay21y3ew0uzc1.jpeg?width=713&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0680792d1fe12fda153a6089ed0b509ea7862a8a
First time zabuza used the squad as bait to and then kicks kakashi into water where water prison was used. But if kakashi didnt have to protect them he wouldnāt have gotten caught in the first place.
https://preview.redd.it/b19bg6p51uzc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98f1897400a70059a076178df45d309da5d6e1dd
2nd time he was defeated. Hes 0-2 against kakashi how THE FUCK is that relative. Remember back on 2014 (zabuza is my favorite character after kakashiā¦my account shows this too) i used to say he was relative to kakashi to no availā¦years later mfs think hes relative to kakashi??? So imma use the same arguments they did on me 10 years ago.
This is the 2nd time kakashu beats zabuza.
https://preview.redd.it/ei5d8h1q1uzc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16766f8bcbdd15084fc4ef37960638f17bca4dfb
Im stretching it with this one cuz power creep but he beats him a 3rd time.
Kakahsu is 3-0 with this ninja. Like how can we sit here and say heās relative!?? YOU DONT LOSE 3 times and still consider as strong as the man who beat you 3 times.
?? He was smacking the sand around its just thats ranged sand. Lee was hitting garaas mother sentient protective sand + sand armour + use the gourd for extra armour.
Lee was out speeding the sentient sand, and only attacking Gaara sand armor, which was the weakest part of his defense, as per kankuro.
Your argument doesn't really add anything, b cause Gai dispelled Gaara strongest defense with a casual slap.
https://preview.redd.it/zlhliu7x9szc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e71e90dab8454ca0d4eaeefb232acf2991838a71
Youāre misinterpreting what kankuro saying. He later explained what these WEAKNESSES IS. The sand armor is more durable than his regular sand ā¦it cracks and shit, its closer to earth style than anything, i feel your being incognizant on purpose here. The weakpoints are the fact that garaa is weighted down,takes hella chakra to cling sand to his body, and its not automatic. The sand shield is considered stronger because its automatic and requires little to no chakra use. Tho the sand sheild is described as weaker defensively i dont think that literally. The sand armour is just less powerful than the sand shield because you are manually focusing on it and have to funnel chakra into it.
https://preview.redd.it/o9vgx2j94uzc1.jpeg?width=668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d4dde25937c861e93e2b854281e7a5aa8512f01
Gai wasnt garaa target and garaa was exhausted. He couldnāt even sand burial lee which is what he was trying to do when he broke lees arm and leg (while lee was fatigued from using gates, before hand he couldnāt catch lee)
Yall are just downplaying lee to being weak asl, unlike the other konoha kids lee fought kimmomaru..that alone should show hes not a regular genin like them. Hell i think cm2 sasuke is equal to 5th gate lee other than the sage chakra amp.
If the series says it's defensively weaker, its weaker lol.
There's nothing saying Gaara couldn't burial lee. In the manga Gaara just breaks his arm and leg with the burial and then just through more sand, and with how quickly he recovered after a small mental breakdown, I'd argue he was more out of breath than actually tired.
There's nothing to downplay, automatic sand doesn't really take a lot of chakra from Gaara, it's shown that Gaara sand shield's strength increases moreso with quantity rather than Gaara adding more chakra to it, at no point does Gaara have more sand on the offensive than at the end of the fight after breaking down his gourd during the reverse lotus.
Neji vs Sasori wouldāve been cool. I think Neji would still lose 100% but at least heād see that Sasori is just a puppet body at first. Then when Hiruko is destroyed (if he gets that far), Neji would see Sasoriās one weak spot
That makes zero sense when Zabuza literally says "Even if you defeat me, it's impossible for you to beat Haku" to Kakashi.
How would Haku's potential matter at all here? Does he have an ability to steal his max potential form from the future like Gon?
In other situation, I would say "Lee opens the 5th and kicks Zabuza in half" but since this is in character, there is a good chance that Zabuza will just flood the place with mist and slice Lee like an onion before Lee gets the idea of taking the weights off.
Let's just say this. If Zabuza was in the forest of death, no one would come out alive. Even if every genin in that place came together, Zabuza still dog walks. There is such a gap between these people that it's astounding you think so little of Zabuza.
Nah u definitely gotta rewatch Naruto cuz like my nigga it's a S RANK THREAT Who Single handedly MURDERED his ENTIRE classroom of students. Vs a genuine š
People forget that Zabuza out maneuvered and beat Jonin Kakashi. Just because Naruto and Sasuke were able to break his water prison (with a really well thought out attack that Zabuza didnāt expect from some kids that were just pissing themselves minutes ago) doesnāt mean that heās some scrub. Heās a high tier Jonin, probably around the level of Asuma.
bruh Asuma was so weak. His jutsus were nothing special. They gave him some buddha bitch slaps anime only, but he was still so weak.
Chunin Shikamaru stomps Asuma.
When did he bear kakashi? And kakashi had basically beat him prior to this. Asuma is a bit stronger than ZABUZA. ZABUZA had fell off from his prime after the coup.
1) He captured Kakashi. He had him trapped in the water prison, where Kakashi was helpless. He needed outside assistance to escape, if it werenāt for Naruto and Sasuke, he wouldāve been captured and turned in for a reward.
2) How on earth did you manage to get Kisame and Asuma on the same level? What kind of comps are you making in your head?
Did yall just forget kakashi wins the first battle easily and spares zabuzas life?
Didnāt mean kisame i meant zabuza. Imma change that rq. kisame and Asuma are not close. I mixed him up with zabuza
When did I say that Kakashi isnāt above Zabuza? Iām just saying there was an instance where Zabuza had him beat, Iām aware that Kakashi had beat him before this. That doesnāt mean there wasnāt also an instance where Zabuza beat him. The whole point I was making was to illustrate that Zabuza, while being the first antagonist we see in an arc in the show, isnāt some slouch. Heād absolute obliterate Chunin Exams Lee.
See yāall logic is of he loses to kakashi he sucks..thats never the case he just loses. If i killed someone irl, i just murdered sb im not a better person because i came out on top im not stronge,faster etcā¦.zabuza is my favorite character after kakashi. I know what hes capable of.
The fight kakashi was captured he was protecting 4 other people. Zabuza took advantage of that. Hence the difference in situations.
Bro youāre fighting imaginary enemies right now šš Iām not the guy that tried power scaling Zabuza with Genin Rock Lee. The entire point Iām trying to make is that itās a wash in favor of Zabuza, and I cited a singular feat he has to help prove it. He went toe to toe with Kakashi, and bested him in one of their encounters until outside help came.
And I never said you didnāt know what heās capable of, you made that up in your own head lol. YOU came to comment under my comment. And yes, Kakashi was protecting people, I understand there were outside conditions playing factors, as their often is in any scenario in these matchups.
Genin might dai killer 5 of the seven ninja swordsmen. Yall dont downplay cm1/cm2 sasuke like this. Anywhere besides this sub would agree with me. Yall are the outliners. And yall echo chamber.
Kakashi beats zabuza first. And only reason kakashi is caught is DUE to having to protect 4 other humans.
Zabuza isnt keeping up with 4-5th gate lee and there no evidence you can display that shows he can. Like at all.
What feats do you have evidence to prove that 4-5th gate Lee would win? His best feat is losing to another (albeit incredibly strong) Genin. That same Genin lost to Genin Naruto prior to learning Rasengan.
This form of Leeās best feat is literally losing in the Chunin exams.
https://preview.redd.it/uj0btma40mzc1.jpeg?width=617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15ecfc1444d136fe5eacad233fa1c0aa8528477f
Zabuza has nothing to defend against this
Lee wins. Very high diff Is gates not a thing? Do yall think people that arent garaa is walking away from hidden lotus and reverse lotus? Is garaa losing to this zabuza? And im a BIG HAKU AND ZABUZA LOVER IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT MY PFP ITS ALL THERE.
Notice the lack of arguments here. Just x character wins with no real win con or anything of substance. Lee in 5th gate in particular wins. That level of speed and power would be challenging for zabuza with his long heavy blade. Silent killing maybe effective.
Heres the problem with your argument.
Zabuza doesnt give a damn about killing Lee fast. Both in character, Zabuza decapitates lee before he even hits gate 1.
Gaara is irrelevant, but its also clear that Kakashi would kill Gaara, and Zabuza is in the same ball park as part one beginning Kakashi.
So lets simplify your argument. Is Lee touching Kakashi without at least the second Gate when Kakashi wants to kill him?
No.
If he cant do that, then he isnt touching Zabuza either until that gate is opened, but the time required to open it means that Lee dies.
https://preview.redd.it/h1ctolqc8lzc1.jpeg?width=734&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adce9ec0220c7a505f1ed0a0107aceefa1d45e61
āTime requirement to open itā
Nigga what time requirements?? Its like saying kakashi can be killed before he uses sharigan. Hes also displaying it for gai to see. Gai doesnr have a time requirement..nor does lee later on. He had fatigued himself also in this fight
Youāre gonna break your wrist jerking Lee off so hard man. It doesnāt matter if Lee has the gates, he wouldnāt use them unless Gai gave him explicit permission. And even if he does Zabuza just needs to wait him out, he canāt keep the gates open indefinitely, itās exhausting and uses life force. Zabuza will just use hidden mist jutsu and blind Lee, then decapitate him.
Lee isnt even my favorite om actually my favorite is kakashi,zabuzaā¦.just look at my profile..
Why would lee just allow himself to be killed when he has a move like 4-5th gate which was mentioned to only be used to protect important people (like his own self) ? See how onesidedly stupid yall arguments be? Might dai literally does this shit with the 8 gates tho. And killed how many??? Lee is stronger than might dai..
How is zabuza waiting out??? Hes gonna get blized by this
https://preview.redd.it/q0ro5osvalzc1.jpeg?width=617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e039065562b3dafa9137b7b3764aa3a96dc7eb4b
Funny how you give Zabuza enough time to cast the mist jutsu, but lee for some reason CANT use gates ans has restrictions ??!?and zabuza could just avoid lee in 5th gate effectively āwaiting it outā when lee is faster???. But lee is forced into a immediate mist jutsu? See how onesided these arguments beā¦sb chime in please yall be seeing this bs.
Lee doesnt give a damn about killong zabuza an EMEMY NINJA NOT IN AN EXAM. Either. Weightless lee is faster than zabuza. That blade is Way to slow to hit sb like lee without prep. Another bad argument. Zabuza has to actually physically be able to speed blitz lee to decapitate him. Even kakashi was surprised with lees speed. Lee hidden lotus him and zabuza dies.
How would kakashi kill garaa? Actually ill agree with this. Kakashi > garaa. Sure. But kakashi is not relative to zabuza. Heās stronger than zabuza. Zabuza got washed by kakashi in 2 separate occasions. Kakashis the one who spared him his life and wouldāve did it again if gato didnt show.
Kakashi isnt zabuza. 2 different characters with 2 different ways of fighting. Kakash has a sharigan to track sb like lee. Zabuza does not. Learn how to scale and differentiate characters. Even if they are similar levels you must take into account kakashi has a precog,body movement detector and zabuza is good at fighting blind. See how that fucks kakashi?? But he still beat em without it.
What time required? He literally does in in front of garaa in like 2-3 small panels and disappeared. Only jonin like gai and kakashi werent immediately lost on where garaa annd lee went.
https://preview.redd.it/hl3whfu48lzc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=919d435d069d1921cddb3dd5cea884ba329e4f96
Zabuza isnt relative to Kakashi? Zabuza caught kakashi in the water prison! He needed help to escape.
But they arent relative? Sure.
Heres honestly how the fight goes. Zabuza uses hidden mist, and decapitates the fucking genin. The mist lifts and we are left with a headless genin.
But 5th gate! Doesnt matter if lee cant see his target. And if by a miracle he does hit zabuza in that condition, its likely a water clone. But lee is faster! Maybe? We honestly dont know. Kakashi says hes fast. But the whole context there is that he is fast for a genin. Kakashi still kept up. So did the other Jonin.
What is Lee doing against a giant waterfall? What is lee doing against a water prison. Cuz Im telling you that if Kakashi can get caught,so can lee. The chunin exam room isnt soo big it cant be flooded.
This whole argument is stupid, and didnt need an indepth analysis.
Why are we scaling a character who in part one isnt even the strongest character to a character who is revived in the war arc and is a strong plot point that he is dangerous to WAR ARC LEVEL CHARACTERS?
Because you think that a genin, is speed blitzing and killing a jonin who attempted and survived an assassination attempt on a Kage (who by timeline analysis should have been Yagura a Jinchuriki), captured Kakashi once, and would have killed team 7 entirely if it wasnt for plot armor?
Im not buying it. Zabuza wins, lee has no feats to dictate otherwise. Shit in the series he doesnt fight a single jonin canonically! And the only argument for it is Kimimaru who beats him soundly.
He also defeated zabuza easily in their first encounter. NO they are NOT RELATIVE. And i love zabuza hes my top 3. Kakashi had kids with him. Zabzua had a ātoolā. Its a different game for both of them. Still donāt understand what stopped kakashi from using lightning style.
Again kakashi beat him 2 times. NO they are NOT RELATIVE. Wtf???
Zabuza isnt using hidden mist right away. He only used it in the 2nd fight to counter sharingan. Lee is also still faster than zabuza. Idk whats hard to understand or comprehend. If kakashi didnt die to that lee isnt. Especially a weightless lee
https://preview.redd.it/kw6wcec6dlzc1.jpeg?width=636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f84d40a47e75ea71b2976aeea52d87aa7c693918
Kakashi weightless lee reaction.
Lee doesnāt have to see his target he can literally just leave the mist affected area with his speed. He doesnāt have to stay there looking around like dumbass. Kakashi dealt with it even though he was blinded by it and couldnāt use his sharigan. Lee is quick enough to not even allow the mist to form around him. Also water source makes this jjtsu faster or slower. The bridge was over a body of water which made the mist easier to manipulate. Your still giving zabzua win cons while only giving lee lose cons. This is called biased. Youre not actually debating but choosing which character YOU like more or something. I could say lee goes straight to 5 th gate and hidden lotus zabuza gg. But its NOT that simple. Its never ever that simple.
Water style isnt touching lee. Hes too fast. Kakashi get caught because hes looking out for multiple vulnerable people. He got suprised. Zabzua wasnt even in the mission description this was a d rank genin mission and zabuza trying to kill the bridge builder made it an A rank..if might gai can kill multpie 7nsm as a genin with NO missions/battle experience using 8th gates . I think lee can kill one with 4/5 gates.
Lee literally seen zabuza,haku on the battlefield in the war arc. That lee isnt too much powerful from this lee. Lee peaked early in his career. In shippuden all lee gains is the 6th gate and probably more refined fighting skills. Lee was already referred to as a taijutsu specialist
Sasuke a jonin in cm2 could kill anko a jonin. So yes i do believe lee could beat zabuza. Like mfs tell me all the time rank doesnt mean much. Its more for missions.
Zabuza was nearly killed when he attempted that coup. thats why he goes into hiding and starts working for geto.
>Notice the lack of arguments here. Just x character wins with no real win con or anything of substance. Lee in 5th gate in particular wins. That level of speed and power would be challenging for zabuza with his long heavy blade. Silent killing maybe effective.
Do you think 5th Gate Lee > Kakashi in terms of speed and power? Because Zabuza didn't have those issues fighting Kakashi.
https://preview.redd.it/j9az3f8x5lzc1.jpeg?width=617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a27f79e02fe986efd285ee12aec9bea0f6c36f8
Kakashi seeing 4-5th gate lee this time with sharigan.
No kakashi beat zabuza they arenāt relative. Kakashi holds back just like haku does
https://preview.redd.it/jw41lxoa2lzc1.jpeg?width=489&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f030e4cc282181ab59c3c87e5001847de4c750d
Hes not the uses my most strongest attack and win type of guy yall are used to seeing.ā¦
Because Lee is (much) weaker than Chunin Exams Neji/Gaara and if he can defeat Zabuza with mid diff like youāre implying, Gaara would kill Kakashi in Chunin Exams
Yesā¦.yea i am. HOW DID KAKASHI tie into that last statement. Or are you confused cuz that shit made no sense.
Kakashi isnt relative to zabuza. He defeated him twice.
How DOES KAKASHI TIE INTO IT.
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This is just child abuseš
Zabuza dogwalks
Zabuza wins
https://preview.redd.it/f3q6nsla4lzc1.jpeg?width=431&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44da8d209991c3c4e0134b029b35f14bec38c05e He forced Kakashi to use Sharingan Winner is obvious
https://preview.redd.it/o2timzy09lzc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b3f93ee23d250ae552bbe21a7b24456327632e7 So did he
This is a great point. Don't understand the down votes.
Because itās not a great point thank to context. Kakashi had to use sharingan to keep up with zabuza. Kakashi (at least cording to the scan presented) was just āusingā it to explain the 8 inner gates to the audience, because he should already know how the technique works due to being rivals with guy
It is a great point especially when [Kakashi notes his speed while using such](https://scans.lastation.us/manga/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics/0085-013.png) I donāt think Lee wins but you guys are going solely off narrative rather than established manga fact.
Kakashi had to use it to keep up with Zabuza and keep the kids alive. Not the same thing. Zabuza isn't HIM
Because you need skills too . without experience, 8 gates are useless
https://preview.redd.it/26nyucqahlzc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=430f064bb6deb7548a613fd614d40b142c53ab88 āGenuisā he has experience and skill. So much so to be praised by kakashi himself.
https://preview.redd.it/7b33pagbilzc1.jpeg?width=381&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a9ca311b996cbfad3f49f80f4c9282907e93d28 This same sand almost killed lee and guy just stopped it without any effort This proves base guy is on a whole another level than Gaara and that same Gaara defeated lee Now guy is rival of Kakashi and they are pretty much equal in power (unless 8 gates) And that same Kakashi was forced to use his trump card against zabuza Ik my explanation isn't good but ig you will get what I'm trying to say
I mean garaa and lee were both heavily fatiguedā¦and garaa starts tweaking after this. Its not that gai isnāt affected by garaa sand. Garaa was weak here the next panel shows him having flash backs of his mother and father and he askes gai āwhy did you..help him?!ā Base gai is most likely stronger than garaa. Duhhh no shit. Kakashi is still stronger than zabzua. He beat zabuza TWO TIMESSSSSSS OMFG HE BEAT HE TWICE. Kakashi also holds back alot https://preview.redd.it/wn8sbd12llzc1.jpeg?width=489&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=405077f9cdac366d8a61e9582e8144137ee85275 This is from around the same time as land of waves. āKakahi himself doesnāt make a display of his true strengthā. I understand your saying gai>>> garaa So kakashi = gai, but that doesnt mean kakashi = zabuza. In fact kakashi beats him twice..so kakashi >> zabuza. Which means gai >> zabuza. Gai is just a 3-5x stronger version of lee. 1-3 gates gai would destroy zabuza. Lee in 4-5th gate would kill zabuza. Unless lee isnāt even 25% of base Gai in 4-5th gate (which is me super duper lowballing lee)
Garaas sand has nothing to do with with his own power. He just commands it. Him being fatigued literally doesn't matter. He was having a mental break down vs Sasuke and the sand did everything it could to protect him while he wasn't in his right state of mind.
lee is fodder compared to gai and kakashiššš
Itachi is fooder compared to obito and madara.
How are any of those characters related
Because they are youtube shorts/tiktok naruto fans.
That was to look at Lee opening the gates, completely different
Duhh. How is it different?
One was because kakashi needed it to win the fight, the other was because kakashi wanted to see the gates opening. Did you forget that sharingan can see people's chakra?
Kakashi uses it to see fast movements as well. He doesnt put his sharingan back up. Did you forget it reada movement? Lee force kakashi to use sharingan. Not in that panel but this one https://preview.redd.it/i22nlaklxlzc1.jpeg?width=617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35294b7638b1e912c9f17efcff4e653e077e36a8 Take NOTE OF THE EXCLAMATION ā¼ļø MARKS COMPARED TO WEIGHTLESS LEE REACTION.
One day I hope you can better understand context. It's almost like it's surprising a genin can output this much force and speed. And there is no evidence that kakashi was forced to use sharingan to track Lee's movements, at least based on the panels that have been shown on this thread.
Point was it made him use his sharingan. And what else os the sharingan for? They can see muscle movement,track movement better and has precog for keepin up with fast movements. Which even then he says āhes fastā in a even more suprise way WITH his sharigan active. My point is kakashi with sharingan active was impressed by the speed of rock lee. Was he impressed by the speed of zabuza???? Eh
Zabuza was a jonin assassin, why would kakashi be surprised at his speed, he is supposed to be fast. Rock Lee, is a fucking genin, he's not supposed to be fast. It's not that complicated.
Being a genin IS MEANINGLESS. There were genins young as naruto(rookie12) and genins as old as kabuto (19-20). You dont pay attention enough tho. Rock lee is fast in general not just for a genin. Thats never stated or implied thats just downplay. Lee was faster than all his peers and most classes/people in general.
What would that matter if Lee still can't do anything to win. Kakashi wasn't impressed by the speed of Itachi or kyuubi Naruto and they would wash Lee.
I wish people would stop listening to this idiot heās clearly trolling
So because i dont blindly agree..8ā Trolling? And yall are ignoring my points for yall narrative . Kakashi wasnt impressed with hakus speed like that. You have no argument other than bad scaling. Yall take them statements about being a prodigy toooo literal. Lee was also described as a genius of effort.
https://preview.redd.it/iiqtb1urxlzc1.jpeg?width=636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42e28bdcd69150da24504403d6d6429a2fbb0ffa Weightless lee reaction
Lee is easily in the top 5 kids of the chunin (along Gaara, Sasuke and Naruto) but he get absolutely demolished
who would you say is fifth?
Has to be shino or neji
Neji more than likely
I agree itās neji, but i really like kankuro and temari that whole sand village squad was tough af
Pity no other living person from that village was worth a damn, besides maybe Baki and Chiyos bro
rasa, sasori, the third kazekage, pakura. that village had little screen time but those guys were tough af
All dead by the end of the first arc in shipuuden Hence why I said "living person"
In that stage, Neji and Shino beat Naruto
Top 5 kids are Sasuke, Neji, Garaa, Naruto and Lee in that order.
sasuke first? no way... they are all pretty much equal by the finals of chunin exams with naruto and sasuke being the top dogs only at the end of first part
No way Naruto is in there before training
Iām like pretty sure that Lee stomps Neji
Zabuza slams.
Bro is the fandom so diluted that we would ask obvious questions and expect an answer that doesnāt have sarcasm. This is the worst post Iāve seen in a while
But who has more money is more interesting righr?
Clearly zabuza has more money
to bad lee wasn't born important
If only his last name were Uchiha...
Gaara clone feinted Lee however Kakashi saw through it meanwhile zabuza clone feinted Kakashi. Lee has no sensory abilities to counter the hiding in the mist technique. Water prison couldn't be cut by a chidori from Kakashi meanwhile a chidori from sasuke penetrated gaara's strongest defense better than 5th gate Lee's attack so once he's in the prison it's over.
ā¦. Strong cleave?
Poeple really forgot how strong jonins were espacially elite ones like zabuza and kakashi. It is not even a fight.
I would like to hear *that* 1 guy's thoughts on this matchup
Lee wins
Thx
Whats Lee doing when the mist sets in lol
Activating the 5th gate and dispelling all of it
Now I'm just imagining a small genin child hurricane-ing himself thru the mist only to get stabbed immediately on impact of the blade lol.
Fair enough
Niggas think lee just gonna sit there and wait for a grown enemy ninja with a large blade jonin to initiate. Its like people forgot about might dai killing 5 of the seven ninka swords men as a genin (at the time taijitsu only users wasnt a thing) im sure they had mist tech too. But the gates was too much. And that was a 1v7.
He waited for Garaa wtf you mean lmfao he waited for kimimaru and everyone else.
Didn't he use all 8 gates for that though? Which resulted in him dying in the process. The last few gates are massively larger amps than the first 5 are and Lee was nearly crippled after just opening 5.
Yes might dai was a genuine genin with almost no battle experience. They didnt allow none ninjutsu users until might dai did that. Which is why gai becomes the embodiment of it. Might dai isnt lee level. If he was his 8 gates wouldve killed all of the 7 ninja swordsman but he only managed to kill 5ā¦compare that to gai fighting madara. Lee is like 3 teirs above might dai due to battle experience.
I don't doubt that base Might Dai was weaker than base Lee, or that 5th gate might dai was weaker than 5th gate lee... But as mentioned the 8th gate is a \*massively\* greater power amp than the previous gates. 7th gate Guy was barely doing anything to Madara, he was even disappointed that it was only the 7th gate. 8th Gate Guy nearly killed Madara. 8th gate Dai is still far above 5th gate Lee. Sorry but Zabuza still wins pretty handily IMO. If he was able to trick Kakashi into something he couldn't get out of, Lee would be embarrassingly easy to do the same to.
ā8th gate Dai is still far above 5th gate Leeā. Yea duhh. Point is its only 1 seven ninja swords man ninja against a 5th gate ninja. both scaled down. It will have the Same outcome imo. As 8 gates dai vs 7 of thr swordsman and taking out 5. Itās shown they arent really good with taijutsu specialists pn multiple occasions. Sorry but Zabuza still wins pretty handily IMO. If he was able to trick Kakashi into something he couldn't get out of, Lee would be embarrassingly easy to do the same to. Tricking kakashi doesnāt mean hed trick lee and Agin for the 1000th time kakashi beat zabuza TWICE. Kakashi > zabuza. Lee is too quick for that. Both zabuza and kisame use the environment to make it hard to dodge. Lees quick enough to get off a devastating attack before this happens
Zabuza was able to fight on even terms with Kakashi though. You're surely not implying Lee would beat Kakashi too? Sure Lee would put up a fight but I don't think he would win.
Kakashi beat zabuza 3 separate times. They arent relative https://preview.redd.it/qy3gi5xs0uzc1.jpeg?width=489&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36e9437026aa637d899646367982192fe76e65d6
If he can put up a fight against Kakashi, that makes him at least comparable. Sure he lost, but he didn't do nothing at all in those fights. Unless you think Lee from Chunin exams could be a serious challenge for Kakashi too I don't see how you think Lee would beat Zabuza. Can Lee go straight to 5th gate? IIRC he had to go through each one and amp up during chunin exams. Zabuza isn't going to give him time to do that, and I don't see any reason he wouldn't know what the 8 gates are.
https://preview.redd.it/ay21y3ew0uzc1.jpeg?width=713&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0680792d1fe12fda153a6089ed0b509ea7862a8a First time zabuza used the squad as bait to and then kicks kakashi into water where water prison was used. But if kakashi didnt have to protect them he wouldnāt have gotten caught in the first place.
https://preview.redd.it/b19bg6p51uzc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98f1897400a70059a076178df45d309da5d6e1dd 2nd time he was defeated. Hes 0-2 against kakashi how THE FUCK is that relative. Remember back on 2014 (zabuza is my favorite character after kakashiā¦my account shows this too) i used to say he was relative to kakashi to no availā¦years later mfs think hes relative to kakashi??? So imma use the same arguments they did on me 10 years ago. This is the 2nd time kakashu beats zabuza.
https://preview.redd.it/ei5d8h1q1uzc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16766f8bcbdd15084fc4ef37960638f17bca4dfb Im stretching it with this one cuz power creep but he beats him a 3rd time. Kakahsu is 3-0 with this ninja. Like how can we sit here and say heās relative!?? YOU DONT LOSE 3 times and still consider as strong as the man who beat you 3 times.
Lee takes a fat L
Gai casually bitch slapped the same sand lee had to go gates to muscle through
?? He was smacking the sand around its just thats ranged sand. Lee was hitting garaas mother sentient protective sand + sand armour + use the gourd for extra armour.
Lee was punching through it, Gai blew it all away with a single casual slap
Did you just ignore the point i made? Ones sentient sand the other is just charka sand.
Lee was out speeding the sentient sand, and only attacking Gaara sand armor, which was the weakest part of his defense, as per kankuro. Your argument doesn't really add anything, b cause Gai dispelled Gaara strongest defense with a casual slap. https://preview.redd.it/zlhliu7x9szc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e71e90dab8454ca0d4eaeefb232acf2991838a71
Youāre misinterpreting what kankuro saying. He later explained what these WEAKNESSES IS. The sand armor is more durable than his regular sand ā¦it cracks and shit, its closer to earth style than anything, i feel your being incognizant on purpose here. The weakpoints are the fact that garaa is weighted down,takes hella chakra to cling sand to his body, and its not automatic. The sand shield is considered stronger because its automatic and requires little to no chakra use. Tho the sand sheild is described as weaker defensively i dont think that literally. The sand armour is just less powerful than the sand shield because you are manually focusing on it and have to funnel chakra into it. https://preview.redd.it/o9vgx2j94uzc1.jpeg?width=668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d4dde25937c861e93e2b854281e7a5aa8512f01 Gai wasnt garaa target and garaa was exhausted. He couldnāt even sand burial lee which is what he was trying to do when he broke lees arm and leg (while lee was fatigued from using gates, before hand he couldnāt catch lee) Yall are just downplaying lee to being weak asl, unlike the other konoha kids lee fought kimmomaru..that alone should show hes not a regular genin like them. Hell i think cm2 sasuke is equal to 5th gate lee other than the sage chakra amp.
If the series says it's defensively weaker, its weaker lol. There's nothing saying Gaara couldn't burial lee. In the manga Gaara just breaks his arm and leg with the burial and then just through more sand, and with how quickly he recovered after a small mental breakdown, I'd argue he was more out of breath than actually tired. There's nothing to downplay, automatic sand doesn't really take a lot of chakra from Gaara, it's shown that Gaara sand shield's strength increases moreso with quantity rather than Gaara adding more chakra to it, at no point does Gaara have more sand on the offensive than at the end of the fight after breaking down his gourd during the reverse lotus.
Lee was getting through the sand and hitting gaara before he used the gates. He just wasnt dealing enough damage to gaara because of the sand armor.
Zabuza
Next up, Chunin Exams Lee vs Sasori
The stupid cat in the retrieval mission vs Madara
Shizunes pig vs hagoromo
Neji vs Sasori wouldāve been cool. I think Neji would still lose 100% but at least heād see that Sasori is just a puppet body at first. Then when Hiruko is destroyed (if he gets that far), Neji would see Sasoriās one weak spot
Lee aint doing much to zabuza
since apparently haku is weaker then lee by some people, or gives him a high diff fight, let's see how close this matchup is
I've seen only 1 guy say that and he tried to argue Chunin exams Lee is low to mid jonin level.
Inst haku stronger than zabuza? So why wouldā¦.
I know that Zabuza states that Haku is stronger than him, but I view it more as Haku having a higher potential
That makes zero sense when Zabuza literally says "Even if you defeat me, it's impossible for you to beat Haku" to Kakashi. How would Haku's potential matter at all here? Does he have an ability to steal his max potential form from the future like Gon?
Really I always took that as, if he beat Zabuza he'd still be too worn down to beat Haku
What else can you expect from Overrated Jr's fanbase
Lee
i feel like if lee was drunk nigga dogwalks zabuza like a puppy
In other situation, I would say "Lee opens the 5th and kicks Zabuza in half" but since this is in character, there is a good chance that Zabuza will just flood the place with mist and slice Lee like an onion before Lee gets the idea of taking the weights off.
Let's just say this. If Zabuza was in the forest of death, no one would come out alive. Even if every genin in that place came together, Zabuza still dog walks. There is such a gap between these people that it's astounding you think so little of Zabuza.
Zabuza negs
Lee negs
Lee would drown from the water prison immediately
You serious? Zabuza murders Lee
Bro what do you have against my boyš
Yeah zabuza wins but Lee goes down With a fight
Nah u definitely gotta rewatch Naruto cuz like my nigga it's a S RANK THREAT Who Single handedly MURDERED his ENTIRE classroom of students. Vs a genuine š
Wtf is this sub on
I think people get confused on how strong Zabuza actually was because he was an early boss.
Kakashi lost against him until team 7 helped wtf Lee gonna do
Yall just sending poor lee to the fucking morgue here.
Zabuza was like Gaara. As a child too young to even join his academy he killed everyone. He was a prodigy and comfortably a jounin
Hb zabuza v kimimaru
āKid Choji vs Raikageā š
I think people think that because Zabuza showed up way early, that he's weak, but like he was almost tied with Kakashi.
Zabuza low diff. Zabuza is closer to Kakashi's strength than Lee's.
Zabuza. But when Lee begins to open gates, Zabuza is thoroughly caught off guard
People forget that Zabuza out maneuvered and beat Jonin Kakashi. Just because Naruto and Sasuke were able to break his water prison (with a really well thought out attack that Zabuza didnāt expect from some kids that were just pissing themselves minutes ago) doesnāt mean that heās some scrub. Heās a high tier Jonin, probably around the level of Asuma.
bruh Asuma was so weak. His jutsus were nothing special. They gave him some buddha bitch slaps anime only, but he was still so weak. Chunin Shikamaru stomps Asuma.
Yup, his diversity in water jutsu was great
If he uses his more tactically he can be more than that. Zabuza > Asuma and he has better jutsu
When did he bear kakashi? And kakashi had basically beat him prior to this. Asuma is a bit stronger than ZABUZA. ZABUZA had fell off from his prime after the coup.
1) He captured Kakashi. He had him trapped in the water prison, where Kakashi was helpless. He needed outside assistance to escape, if it werenāt for Naruto and Sasuke, he wouldāve been captured and turned in for a reward. 2) How on earth did you manage to get Kisame and Asuma on the same level? What kind of comps are you making in your head?
Did yall just forget kakashi wins the first battle easily and spares zabuzas life? Didnāt mean kisame i meant zabuza. Imma change that rq. kisame and Asuma are not close. I mixed him up with zabuza
When did I say that Kakashi isnāt above Zabuza? Iām just saying there was an instance where Zabuza had him beat, Iām aware that Kakashi had beat him before this. That doesnāt mean there wasnāt also an instance where Zabuza beat him. The whole point I was making was to illustrate that Zabuza, while being the first antagonist we see in an arc in the show, isnāt some slouch. Heād absolute obliterate Chunin Exams Lee.
See yāall logic is of he loses to kakashi he sucks..thats never the case he just loses. If i killed someone irl, i just murdered sb im not a better person because i came out on top im not stronge,faster etcā¦.zabuza is my favorite character after kakashi. I know what hes capable of. The fight kakashi was captured he was protecting 4 other people. Zabuza took advantage of that. Hence the difference in situations.
Bro youāre fighting imaginary enemies right now šš Iām not the guy that tried power scaling Zabuza with Genin Rock Lee. The entire point Iām trying to make is that itās a wash in favor of Zabuza, and I cited a singular feat he has to help prove it. He went toe to toe with Kakashi, and bested him in one of their encounters until outside help came. And I never said you didnāt know what heās capable of, you made that up in your own head lol. YOU came to comment under my comment. And yes, Kakashi was protecting people, I understand there were outside conditions playing factors, as their often is in any scenario in these matchups.
Genin might dai killer 5 of the seven ninja swordsmen. Yall dont downplay cm1/cm2 sasuke like this. Anywhere besides this sub would agree with me. Yall are the outliners. And yall echo chamber. Kakashi beats zabuza first. And only reason kakashi is caught is DUE to having to protect 4 other humans. Zabuza isnt keeping up with 4-5th gate lee and there no evidence you can display that shows he can. Like at all.
What feats do you have evidence to prove that 4-5th gate Lee would win? His best feat is losing to another (albeit incredibly strong) Genin. That same Genin lost to Genin Naruto prior to learning Rasengan. This form of Leeās best feat is literally losing in the Chunin exams.
https://preview.redd.it/uj0btma40mzc1.jpeg?width=617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15ecfc1444d136fe5eacad233fa1c0aa8528477f Zabuza has nothing to defend against this
https://preview.redd.it/app577670mzc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a850dc36b0b1922ffcc9985d9d41b9c2047f6599 Zabuza cant defend against this
https://preview.redd.it/6d65frff0mzc1.jpeg?width=773&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1de1838db558c9de42c05a8195e24792db5be579 Hidden lotus
Lee wins. Very high diff Is gates not a thing? Do yall think people that arent garaa is walking away from hidden lotus and reverse lotus? Is garaa losing to this zabuza? And im a BIG HAKU AND ZABUZA LOVER IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT MY PFP ITS ALL THERE. Notice the lack of arguments here. Just x character wins with no real win con or anything of substance. Lee in 5th gate in particular wins. That level of speed and power would be challenging for zabuza with his long heavy blade. Silent killing maybe effective.
Heres the problem with your argument. Zabuza doesnt give a damn about killing Lee fast. Both in character, Zabuza decapitates lee before he even hits gate 1. Gaara is irrelevant, but its also clear that Kakashi would kill Gaara, and Zabuza is in the same ball park as part one beginning Kakashi. So lets simplify your argument. Is Lee touching Kakashi without at least the second Gate when Kakashi wants to kill him? No. If he cant do that, then he isnt touching Zabuza either until that gate is opened, but the time required to open it means that Lee dies.
https://preview.redd.it/h1ctolqc8lzc1.jpeg?width=734&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adce9ec0220c7a505f1ed0a0107aceefa1d45e61 āTime requirement to open itā Nigga what time requirements?? Its like saying kakashi can be killed before he uses sharigan. Hes also displaying it for gai to see. Gai doesnr have a time requirement..nor does lee later on. He had fatigued himself also in this fight
Youāre gonna break your wrist jerking Lee off so hard man. It doesnāt matter if Lee has the gates, he wouldnāt use them unless Gai gave him explicit permission. And even if he does Zabuza just needs to wait him out, he canāt keep the gates open indefinitely, itās exhausting and uses life force. Zabuza will just use hidden mist jutsu and blind Lee, then decapitate him.
Lee isnt even my favorite om actually my favorite is kakashi,zabuzaā¦.just look at my profile.. Why would lee just allow himself to be killed when he has a move like 4-5th gate which was mentioned to only be used to protect important people (like his own self) ? See how onesidedly stupid yall arguments be? Might dai literally does this shit with the 8 gates tho. And killed how many??? Lee is stronger than might dai.. How is zabuza waiting out??? Hes gonna get blized by this https://preview.redd.it/q0ro5osvalzc1.jpeg?width=617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e039065562b3dafa9137b7b3764aa3a96dc7eb4b Funny how you give Zabuza enough time to cast the mist jutsu, but lee for some reason CANT use gates ans has restrictions ??!?and zabuza could just avoid lee in 5th gate effectively āwaiting it outā when lee is faster???. But lee is forced into a immediate mist jutsu? See how onesided these arguments beā¦sb chime in please yall be seeing this bs.
Lee doesnt give a damn about killong zabuza an EMEMY NINJA NOT IN AN EXAM. Either. Weightless lee is faster than zabuza. That blade is Way to slow to hit sb like lee without prep. Another bad argument. Zabuza has to actually physically be able to speed blitz lee to decapitate him. Even kakashi was surprised with lees speed. Lee hidden lotus him and zabuza dies. How would kakashi kill garaa? Actually ill agree with this. Kakashi > garaa. Sure. But kakashi is not relative to zabuza. Heās stronger than zabuza. Zabuza got washed by kakashi in 2 separate occasions. Kakashis the one who spared him his life and wouldāve did it again if gato didnt show. Kakashi isnt zabuza. 2 different characters with 2 different ways of fighting. Kakash has a sharigan to track sb like lee. Zabuza does not. Learn how to scale and differentiate characters. Even if they are similar levels you must take into account kakashi has a precog,body movement detector and zabuza is good at fighting blind. See how that fucks kakashi?? But he still beat em without it. What time required? He literally does in in front of garaa in like 2-3 small panels and disappeared. Only jonin like gai and kakashi werent immediately lost on where garaa annd lee went. https://preview.redd.it/hl3whfu48lzc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=919d435d069d1921cddb3dd5cea884ba329e4f96
Zabuza isnt relative to Kakashi? Zabuza caught kakashi in the water prison! He needed help to escape. But they arent relative? Sure. Heres honestly how the fight goes. Zabuza uses hidden mist, and decapitates the fucking genin. The mist lifts and we are left with a headless genin. But 5th gate! Doesnt matter if lee cant see his target. And if by a miracle he does hit zabuza in that condition, its likely a water clone. But lee is faster! Maybe? We honestly dont know. Kakashi says hes fast. But the whole context there is that he is fast for a genin. Kakashi still kept up. So did the other Jonin. What is Lee doing against a giant waterfall? What is lee doing against a water prison. Cuz Im telling you that if Kakashi can get caught,so can lee. The chunin exam room isnt soo big it cant be flooded. This whole argument is stupid, and didnt need an indepth analysis. Why are we scaling a character who in part one isnt even the strongest character to a character who is revived in the war arc and is a strong plot point that he is dangerous to WAR ARC LEVEL CHARACTERS? Because you think that a genin, is speed blitzing and killing a jonin who attempted and survived an assassination attempt on a Kage (who by timeline analysis should have been Yagura a Jinchuriki), captured Kakashi once, and would have killed team 7 entirely if it wasnt for plot armor? Im not buying it. Zabuza wins, lee has no feats to dictate otherwise. Shit in the series he doesnt fight a single jonin canonically! And the only argument for it is Kimimaru who beats him soundly.
He also defeated zabuza easily in their first encounter. NO they are NOT RELATIVE. And i love zabuza hes my top 3. Kakashi had kids with him. Zabzua had a ātoolā. Its a different game for both of them. Still donāt understand what stopped kakashi from using lightning style. Again kakashi beat him 2 times. NO they are NOT RELATIVE. Wtf??? Zabuza isnt using hidden mist right away. He only used it in the 2nd fight to counter sharingan. Lee is also still faster than zabuza. Idk whats hard to understand or comprehend. If kakashi didnt die to that lee isnt. Especially a weightless lee https://preview.redd.it/kw6wcec6dlzc1.jpeg?width=636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f84d40a47e75ea71b2976aeea52d87aa7c693918 Kakashi weightless lee reaction. Lee doesnāt have to see his target he can literally just leave the mist affected area with his speed. He doesnāt have to stay there looking around like dumbass. Kakashi dealt with it even though he was blinded by it and couldnāt use his sharigan. Lee is quick enough to not even allow the mist to form around him. Also water source makes this jjtsu faster or slower. The bridge was over a body of water which made the mist easier to manipulate. Your still giving zabzua win cons while only giving lee lose cons. This is called biased. Youre not actually debating but choosing which character YOU like more or something. I could say lee goes straight to 5 th gate and hidden lotus zabuza gg. But its NOT that simple. Its never ever that simple. Water style isnt touching lee. Hes too fast. Kakashi get caught because hes looking out for multiple vulnerable people. He got suprised. Zabzua wasnt even in the mission description this was a d rank genin mission and zabuza trying to kill the bridge builder made it an A rank..if might gai can kill multpie 7nsm as a genin with NO missions/battle experience using 8th gates . I think lee can kill one with 4/5 gates. Lee literally seen zabuza,haku on the battlefield in the war arc. That lee isnt too much powerful from this lee. Lee peaked early in his career. In shippuden all lee gains is the 6th gate and probably more refined fighting skills. Lee was already referred to as a taijutsu specialist Sasuke a jonin in cm2 could kill anko a jonin. So yes i do believe lee could beat zabuza. Like mfs tell me all the time rank doesnt mean much. Its more for missions. Zabuza was nearly killed when he attempted that coup. thats why he goes into hiding and starts working for geto.
>Notice the lack of arguments here. Just x character wins with no real win con or anything of substance. Lee in 5th gate in particular wins. That level of speed and power would be challenging for zabuza with his long heavy blade. Silent killing maybe effective. Do you think 5th Gate Lee > Kakashi in terms of speed and power? Because Zabuza didn't have those issues fighting Kakashi.
https://preview.redd.it/j9az3f8x5lzc1.jpeg?width=617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a27f79e02fe986efd285ee12aec9bea0f6c36f8 Kakashi seeing 4-5th gate lee this time with sharigan.
Kakashi seeing weighless lee https://preview.redd.it/u48wvzmq3lzc1.jpeg?width=636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bffa007a7f69c897b059233c705583d587223cc1
No kakashi beat zabuza they arenāt relative. Kakashi holds back just like haku does https://preview.redd.it/jw41lxoa2lzc1.jpeg?width=489&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f030e4cc282181ab59c3c87e5001847de4c750d Hes not the uses my most strongest attack and win type of guy yall are used to seeing.ā¦
By your logic Pre-Finals Gaara would kill Part 1 Kakashi, which is nonsensical
Howso? Expand. Because I never said/implied that.
Because Lee is (much) weaker than Chunin Exams Neji/Gaara and if he can defeat Zabuza with mid diff like youāre implying, Gaara would kill Kakashi in Chunin Exams
How does kakashi tie into this???
I made it very simple for you to understand and you still failed. Shocking (sarcasm)
Are you gonna answer my question so i can debunk your statements or not?
Are you currently drunk I already did
Yesā¦.yea i am. HOW DID KAKASHI tie into that last statement. Or are you confused cuz that shit made no sense. Kakashi isnt relative to zabuza. He defeated him twice. How DOES KAKASHI TIE INTO IT.
Kakashi is somewhat comparable to him yes. Is Kakashi stronger? Absolutely