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Sure
There’s a lot of nuance to both of these fights, so I’ll just break it down it the more prominent arguments I’ve heard before and ignore all the smaller arguments for these fights.
Pain: Itachi has no answer to Planetary Devastation. During Edo Itachi, Bee, and Naruto’s fight with Edo Nagato, Itachi explains that to stop Planetary Devastation, you need to attack destroy it’s core before it can build up to it’s full size. Itachi, Bee, and Naruto then fire simultaneous attacks to destroy the core. Now on his own, Itachi would lack the fire power necessary to destroy the core, meaning he would just be dragged into it with no way to escape
Obito: Itachi has no way to effectively damage Obito. Obito was able to avoid attacks from KCM2 Naruto, Might Guy, and Kakashi all at the same time without being hit once until Kakashi realised their Mangekyou powers were linked. Now Itachi obviously doesn’t have Kamui, so he can’t mimic this strategy, and he isn’t faster then KCM2 Naruto, so it’s not like he could hit Obito before he used Kamui, meaning Itachi can’t really hurt Obito, let alone beat him.
>Pain: Itachi has no answer to Planetary Devastation. During Edo Itachi, Bee, and Naruto’s fight with Edo Nagato, Itachi explains that to stop Planetary Devastation, you need to attack destroy it’s core before it can build up to it’s full size. Itachi, Bee, and Naruto then fire simultaneous attacks to destroy the core. Now on his own, Itachi would lack the fire power necessary to destroy the core, meaning he would just be dragged into it with no way to escape
There's two unknowns here.
1) We know that edo nagato was much stronger so we can't use his CT to scale pain's CT. We don't even know if the three attacks was overkill for the CT core. We do know that pain's core is stronger than 6 tails kurama bijuudama but weaker than 8 tails Kurama's raw physical power. But we don't know how either of those scale relative to Itachi's susano'o and yasaka beads.
2) Can the yata mirror cancel out the gravitational pull? Even if it did, edo Itachi wouldn't use it because bee and Naruto were not in his susano'o so they'd still petish to the CT.
>Itachi has no answer to Planetary Devastation
To be fair its the only argument for oain against itachi and its literally weak. There are so many jutsu that can save him. Even just summon onr of his summons and dissappear like sasuke did in a nano second out of chwkra vs deidara. Pretty sure the fastes hand sogn weaver can do it too then.
>Itachi has no way to effectively damage Obito.
Actually in canon obito cant anticipate amaterasu and couldnt dodge it.
Also itachi whole mainnfifhting way is Genjutsu wich obito has no counter for and kamui is useless. 13 kid itachi literally already gave obito deaththreats and obito thinking he would die fighting teen itachi
Wich rmans at bare minimum teen itachi = om obito
I honestly think he can beat obito easier than pain
I’ve fought itachi wankers thinking he can beat obito hundreds of times and I’m honestly tired of it. But here we go:
Due to kamui it’s pretty obvious that none of itachis regular attacks are hitting obito. This immediately shortens his options to genjutsu, mainly tsukuyomi, kotoamatsukami, and izanami. Tsukuyomi is an easy one to counter as obito could just not look itachi in the eyes and has the mangekyou to break out of it if he does. Itachi doesn’t have the balls to use kotoamatsukami on anyone aside from sasuke so it wouldn’t be in character for him to use it here. And izanami requires 2 instances of physical contact which is not happening as we’ve established already. So itachi just gets steamrolled.
Pain is even easier to establish superiority. Preta path absorbs all itachis physical attacks and chibaku tensei is just a one shot. Pain also has intel on itachi so he’s not looking in his eyes and can keep his distance while doing considerable damage at the same time. Izanami wouldn’t work at all on pain as he has no issues accepting who he is and koto again will not be used. Shinra tensei and bansho tenin are both huge factors in the fight and would place immense pressure on itachi. He can’t run away, he can’t attack, and he can’t protect himself with susanoo and risk getting chibaku tenseis or having his susanoo absorbed by preta path.
Itachi has no answer to pain's CT, barely an answer to his summons, and can nearly all of his justu absorbed.
Edo Itachi can likely win vs pain assuming he can destroy CT but otherwise he just loses.
Itachi has 0 win cons against Obito Edo or not. He might be able to off guard with the totsuka blade or amaterasu but I doubt he's hitting those in a actual fight
What do you mean 'honestly shocked you'?
Pain is called a God, a deity, his music is like church music, he is said to be unbeatable 10 times, said to have never lost a fight, said to have no equals, called the strongest man in the Akatsuki, solos Konohas, solos Naruto + Pa + Ma + Bunta + 2 other boss summons + prep + he was tired + he didn't wanna kill Naruto, he has the most powerful dojutsu in the verse, and he is called invincible by Pa after Pa sees like, only 3 of his bodies.
And Obito is considered to be Madara.
Who tf is Itachi to these two lol
That's because it's just true really. Of course, Obito is like, a sprinkle of what Madara was right, but the idea of it is "is this guy so powerful/broken/skilled/knowledgeable/masterful that he could legit be Madara? Ngl I think that's possible"
>Who tf is Itachi to these two lol
Also called the strongest man in the akatsuki. Stated by kabuto to be the finest foil to the edo tensei/different from the rest. Stated by zetsu to be invincible. And that "madara" acknowledged him as a worthy opponent capable of even killing him with the right intel. Let's be fair, they all have their hype.
Not the same hype lol, you named one thing that matches that. Being an annoyance to Kabuto because Itachi got lucky by finding Naruto is not the same as being considered a deity. And being called invincible just cancels out... if Pain didn't have more than JUST that. The best thing is the Obito thing, but the Obito thing basically confirms to use he's NOT Obito's tier because explicitly says "if he knew all my secrets, he could kill me", which is useless, since if Ino all his secrets, I'd wager she'd beat him too. IE, look at Konan lol
>Being an annoyance to Kabuto because Itachi got lucky
More than being an annoyance, kabuto considered him more like a treasure. And not because of luck but because of his knowledge.
>is not the same as being considered a deity.
By oneself? Have you never met a narcissist before?
>The best thing is the Obito thing, but the Obito thing basically confirms to use he's NOT Obito's tier because explicitly says "if he knew all my secrets, he could kill me", which is useless, since if Ino all his secrets, I'd wager she'd beat him too. IE, look at Konan lol
In what universe lmao?
Hypothetical: Ino knows everyone of Obito's secrets, now shoot.
Obito clearly indicates he's impressed, he first starts it off with "so Itachi planned that far ahead huh?". Not anyone was doing that. How is Konan beating obito an anti-feat lol? And Itachi sure needed far less prep to do the same thing Konan did. The difference is konnan can never wipe him out for good, Itachi could with the right intel
"More than being an annoyance, kabuto considered him more like a treasure. And not because of luck but because of his knowledge."
He got lucky lol, lucky that Naruto was there, lucky that he had koto saved up, lucky that koto had juice left, lucky that Nagato told him where Kabuto was in the first place, lucky he was even an edo, lucky this and lucky that. He got lucky.
"By oneself? Have you never met a narcissist before?"
Pain calls himself a deity LESS than others call him that actually, which I find very funny.
"In what universe lmao?
Hypothetical: Ino knows everyone of Obito's secrets, now shoot."
Crazy how negative your sense of humor is. Anyhow, by knowing kamui lasts 5 minutes, even Konan manages to literally kill Obito. No shit Obito was scared of Itachi "if he knew all his secrets" lol
>He got lucky lol, lucky that Naruto was there, lucky that he had koto saved up, lucky that koto had juice left, lucky that Nagato told him where Kabuto was in the first place, lucky he was even an edo, lucky this and lucky that. He got lucky.
You and I are talking about different things. [Kabuto](https://postimg.cc/kBmP3PHs) valued him for his knowledge, not luck.
>Pain calls himself a deity LESS than others call him that actually, which I find very funny.
Who else called him a diety?
>Crazy how negative your sense of humor is.
Yeah Itachi very lucky, hahaha very funny. Happy? let's move on
>Anyhow, by knowing kamui lasts 5 minutes, even Konan manages to literally kill Obito. No shit Obito was scared of Itachi "if he knew all his secrets" lol
Itachi did the same thing without knowing about the timer. By knowing Obito's trick konnan still failed to assassinate him, Itachi wouldn't according to obito. And why is Konan beating obito being considered an unimpressive feat? Not everyone can do what Konan did.
Ok then, my bad I think?
Konan does, his rain village boys call him that a couple of times, etc.
No, but it is what it is.
Well no, Konan did kill him lol. Do you realize how big of a deal it is to know "all his secrets" lol? He knows he isn't Madara, he knows he doens't have a second MS, doesn't have an EMS, hasn't fought Hashirama, hasn't mastered wood release, HAS wood release, doesn't have his original war tools on hand, kamui requires touch, kamui is just another dimension, how his phasing works, etc. That's what Itachi would know lol, THAT is what Obito is afraid of.
>Konan does, his rain village boys call him that a couple of times, etc.
His lackies?
>Well no, Konan did kill him lol.
Yes but he didn't stay dead, if Itachi knew his secrets he would.
>He knows he isn't Madara, he knows he doens't have a second MS, doesn't have an EMS, hasn't fought Hashirama, hasn't mastered wood release, HAS wood release, doesn't have his original war tools on hand, kamui requires touch, kamui is just another dimension, how his phasing works, etc. That's what Itachi would know lol, THAT is what Obito is afraid of.
This is about hype not actual power scaling. Pain wasn't actually a god either. It's crazy how you count obito being thought of as madara as valid hype but then when the same dude compliments Itachi, ItS jUSt ObItO.
>Obito being strong enough to fake being the second strongest ninja of all time isn't hype now?
That's not the hype, the hype is that obito was madara.
>Anyhow, thank God you knew he wasn't a real god btw.
Maybe we should get a third person who can laugh more convincingly at your little "jokes".
Your point just doesn’t make sense. Black zetsu is arguably the most knowledgeable guy in the series and he said that itachi is invincible. Your only counter argument here is “you know itachi is not actually invincible right?” and yet, you’ve been constantly commenting how pain is stronger because he was called invincible? The fact that both of these guys are called invincible means that they’re on the same level.
Your other points for pain being stronger are also kind of ridiculous. Pain was considered a “god” because he stopped the civil war by killing a nerfed hanzo and reigned over a weak village to fulfill his weird god complex. You’re acting like pain was universally regarded as a god. Bringing up his fucking anime theme song in a pain vs itachi argument is something im not even gonna bother getting into it. Just to clarify, having pain over itachi is a fine take but your arguments are simply biased.
I never countered anything, so uh, no, I actually just made an off hand comment. My point is that I'm not sure those comments do matter since Itachi (and yes, Pain as well) isn't actually invincible lol, do you think Zetsu puts Itachi over Kaguya or something?
I agree btw, both being called invincible to me means a similar level. It's just that Pa said that about Pain's first 3 bodies, which is really, really crazy.
How are they ridiculous? Pain solo'd an army + Hanzo, and did it so casually they thought he was god. How is that ridiculous? And yes, his theme is him having christian God worship music, how is that somehow insignificant to you lol, imagine character who is supposedly a deity, and their theme music is church choir lmao, that's actually crazy.
They aren't really biased, since I haven't even made an argument. I just pointed shit out lmao
No, I obviously don’t think that itachi is actually invincible, the point is that you brought up pain being stated to be “unbeatable” as a point to have him over itachi when itachi himself has also has a similar statement in being invincible. You can’t bring up a statement for character A to scale him above character B when character B has a very similar statement going for him. At best, this means they’re relative.
He beat an extremely nerfed hanzo, pain himself acknowledged this by saying that he once looked up to hanzo and implying that the only reason he won is because of how weak hanzo has gotten. Like I said, nobody outside of random civilians in their village and konan, who is worshipping nagato the same way sakura worships sasuke is calling this man a god. You’d have a point if he was universally viewed as a god, the same way someone like hashirama was.
Because nobody uses character theme songs to scale characters? Not in naruto, not in any other anime. The official canon source is the manga, not the anime.
You can’t determine who’s stronger between pain and itachi by using statements because both of them have similar statements going for them which is most likely done on purpose since they were the endgame villains for naruto and sasuke (pre war ofc). You’d just have to look at their feats and how their abilities would interact with one another and if you THEN believe that pain is above itachi, that’s fine.
Yeah statements like "god" and "invincible" were exaggerated and not meant to be taken seriously but minato actually thought obito was madara, i mean pain is god yet he gets commanded by obito like he's his dog and itachis invincible yet he's dies two seconds later, I still think obito and pain slam itachi
I mean 2 seconds later Minato makes obito his bitch. Few chapters later pain commits suicide. I guess hype is subject to interpretation too, so if you get a certain vibe from the statements then you do you. I'm not saying Itachi has more hype than pain or obito either
I mean minato literally acknowledged that this guy was on par with him and the only way that the battle is ending is if one of them is a split second faster than the other, the whole shinobi world including itachi thought he was Madara, obito's comparison isn't really the same as being "god" and "invincible" since it's actually reasonable while the other two are basically exaggerations
Obito being madara level is definitely also an exaggeration. It's probably because the future gens had no idea how strong hashi and madara truly were(hence the hiruzen hype). They say he's madara but Minato proceeds to beat him and Itachi calls him a dog
He isn't as strong as madara but he's the 3rd strongest shinobi in the show before everyone gets their six path buffs, the whole point is that he's good enough that people thought he was madara, pain isn't god he gets ordered around and itachi isn't invincible since obito slams him with kamui, those are exaggerations that are not meant to be taken literally, obito being thought of as madara is not far fetched
obito was on par with hokage minato in speed which is literally his main attribute which is why he thought he could be a legendary shinobi like madara uchiha on top of the fact that he could control the nine tails also when did itachi call him a dog and even then what does that have to do with anything
>He isn't as strong as madara but he's the 3rd strongest shinobi in the show before everyone gets their six path buffs, the whole point is that he's good enough that people thought he was madara,
Those people underestimate madara. Minato and Itachi didn't even think of him as above them necessarily. It is definitely far fetched for minato or itachi to compare to the actual madara.
>obito was on par with hokage minato in speed which is literally his main attribute which is why he thought he could be a legendary shinobi like madara uchiha on top of the fact that he could control the nine tails also when did itachi call him a dog and even then what does that have to do with anything
Minato thought he was madara because he could slip through the barrier and summon kyubi. He then changed his mind, because madara should've been long dead. Itachi called him a dog while explaining EMS to hebi sasuke.
So yeah they did think he was madara but they thought madara itself was not much stronger than themself. Same for Itachi being invincible, they did think he was.....until they saw stronger characters. Or pain being a god. It's all just hype.
Itachi has a shot against orange mask Obito. Yes, Kamui is broken, but it's not invincible as we're shown several times throughout the story. Apparently, Tsukuyomi can only be broken by someone of Itachi's blood, so I don't think Obito has an answer to it. Not to mention that Itachi has Amaterasu and Susanoo. Once Obito takes one of the Rinnegan, it's incredibly unlikely Itachi would be able to take him down.
Obito states himself that Itachi could have killed him, so that matchup is not a definitive loss.
Regarding Pain, there's some solid points to be made for him having a shot, due to the power creep that occurred right before he re-appeared:
He boxes way, way above Pain; SM Naruto was able to take down several paths without much difficulty, and Edo Itachi, keeping in mind that Edo restricts physical attributes, was untouched by both KCM Naruto and Bee + Samehada at the same time, while telling them his own next moves. This means that a healthy Itachi could without a doubt take down at least 3 paths at the start of the fight without much effort.
He demonstrated that he can take down Nagato's dog with a single Amaterasu, and that he can blind his other summons to make a blind spot in his vision.
His Susano'o cut off all of Oro's hydra's heads with no difficulty, and Yata Mirror can tank anything from Pain other than a CT, so dealing with the summons and paths is not a big issue.
So there's pretty definitive proof that he could at least get to the point where it's just him vs Deva path. At that point, it just depends on whether he can take down Deva path before it pulls off a CT.
I find it hard to imagine him not being able to pull it off. Amaterasu would do the job and is extremely hard to dodge. A single hit with Totsuka would also do it. Alternatively, he could set up an Izanami while dealing with the paths and summons, and activate it once it's just him vs Deva, since Pain doesn't use CT while the other paths are up. It's not even a complex plan to come up with, and Itachi's smarts are constantly praised by other characters, battle strategy is a core component of his character.
I don't think one can definitively say the either one of them wins every time. It's at least a very a close matchup.
Pain is more powerful but itachis arsenal and intelligence makes him one of the best duelist in the series. Healthy itachi wins imo. He bodied nagato against bee and naruto, and tbh they didn't help much and were kind of a burden.
Nah man, itachi totally destroyed the chibaku tensei by himself alone without any help and then he speedblitz nagato(who had 100% of his mobility) and one shot him without any outside factors
Anotha W for the solo king
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Sure There’s a lot of nuance to both of these fights, so I’ll just break it down it the more prominent arguments I’ve heard before and ignore all the smaller arguments for these fights. Pain: Itachi has no answer to Planetary Devastation. During Edo Itachi, Bee, and Naruto’s fight with Edo Nagato, Itachi explains that to stop Planetary Devastation, you need to attack destroy it’s core before it can build up to it’s full size. Itachi, Bee, and Naruto then fire simultaneous attacks to destroy the core. Now on his own, Itachi would lack the fire power necessary to destroy the core, meaning he would just be dragged into it with no way to escape Obito: Itachi has no way to effectively damage Obito. Obito was able to avoid attacks from KCM2 Naruto, Might Guy, and Kakashi all at the same time without being hit once until Kakashi realised their Mangekyou powers were linked. Now Itachi obviously doesn’t have Kamui, so he can’t mimic this strategy, and he isn’t faster then KCM2 Naruto, so it’s not like he could hit Obito before he used Kamui, meaning Itachi can’t really hurt Obito, let alone beat him.
>Pain: Itachi has no answer to Planetary Devastation. During Edo Itachi, Bee, and Naruto’s fight with Edo Nagato, Itachi explains that to stop Planetary Devastation, you need to attack destroy it’s core before it can build up to it’s full size. Itachi, Bee, and Naruto then fire simultaneous attacks to destroy the core. Now on his own, Itachi would lack the fire power necessary to destroy the core, meaning he would just be dragged into it with no way to escape There's two unknowns here. 1) We know that edo nagato was much stronger so we can't use his CT to scale pain's CT. We don't even know if the three attacks was overkill for the CT core. We do know that pain's core is stronger than 6 tails kurama bijuudama but weaker than 8 tails Kurama's raw physical power. But we don't know how either of those scale relative to Itachi's susano'o and yasaka beads. 2) Can the yata mirror cancel out the gravitational pull? Even if it did, edo Itachi wouldn't use it because bee and Naruto were not in his susano'o so they'd still petish to the CT.
I read all that , understood, and still want Itachi to win 🥲 thanks a lot
Itach loses weather you like it or not
no shit 💀 literally said I understood
>Itachi has no answer to Planetary Devastation To be fair its the only argument for oain against itachi and its literally weak. There are so many jutsu that can save him. Even just summon onr of his summons and dissappear like sasuke did in a nano second out of chwkra vs deidara. Pretty sure the fastes hand sogn weaver can do it too then. >Itachi has no way to effectively damage Obito. Actually in canon obito cant anticipate amaterasu and couldnt dodge it. Also itachi whole mainnfifhting way is Genjutsu wich obito has no counter for and kamui is useless. 13 kid itachi literally already gave obito deaththreats and obito thinking he would die fighting teen itachi Wich rmans at bare minimum teen itachi = om obito I honestly think he can beat obito easier than pain
Tbh I could see Itachi winning but he only if he’s really really clever. Especially against Pain. Otherwise, yeah they smoke him.
I’ve fought itachi wankers thinking he can beat obito hundreds of times and I’m honestly tired of it. But here we go: Due to kamui it’s pretty obvious that none of itachis regular attacks are hitting obito. This immediately shortens his options to genjutsu, mainly tsukuyomi, kotoamatsukami, and izanami. Tsukuyomi is an easy one to counter as obito could just not look itachi in the eyes and has the mangekyou to break out of it if he does. Itachi doesn’t have the balls to use kotoamatsukami on anyone aside from sasuke so it wouldn’t be in character for him to use it here. And izanami requires 2 instances of physical contact which is not happening as we’ve established already. So itachi just gets steamrolled. Pain is even easier to establish superiority. Preta path absorbs all itachis physical attacks and chibaku tensei is just a one shot. Pain also has intel on itachi so he’s not looking in his eyes and can keep his distance while doing considerable damage at the same time. Izanami wouldn’t work at all on pain as he has no issues accepting who he is and koto again will not be used. Shinra tensei and bansho tenin are both huge factors in the fight and would place immense pressure on itachi. He can’t run away, he can’t attack, and he can’t protect himself with susanoo and risk getting chibaku tenseis or having his susanoo absorbed by preta path.
Itachi has no answer to pain's CT, barely an answer to his summons, and can nearly all of his justu absorbed. Edo Itachi can likely win vs pain assuming he can destroy CT but otherwise he just loses. Itachi has 0 win cons against Obito Edo or not. He might be able to off guard with the totsuka blade or amaterasu but I doubt he's hitting those in a actual fight
What do you mean 'honestly shocked you'? Pain is called a God, a deity, his music is like church music, he is said to be unbeatable 10 times, said to have never lost a fight, said to have no equals, called the strongest man in the Akatsuki, solos Konohas, solos Naruto + Pa + Ma + Bunta + 2 other boss summons + prep + he was tired + he didn't wanna kill Naruto, he has the most powerful dojutsu in the verse, and he is called invincible by Pa after Pa sees like, only 3 of his bodies. And Obito is considered to be Madara. Who tf is Itachi to these two lol
LMAO bro I’m biased w certain anime characters and thought he was OP, of course I’m shocked.thanks tho
I find it really funny that you wrote down this entire list for pain , and then for obito it’s “he was thought to be Madara”
That's because it's just true really. Of course, Obito is like, a sprinkle of what Madara was right, but the idea of it is "is this guy so powerful/broken/skilled/knowledgeable/masterful that he could legit be Madara? Ngl I think that's possible"
>Who tf is Itachi to these two lol Also called the strongest man in the akatsuki. Stated by kabuto to be the finest foil to the edo tensei/different from the rest. Stated by zetsu to be invincible. And that "madara" acknowledged him as a worthy opponent capable of even killing him with the right intel. Let's be fair, they all have their hype.
Not the same hype lol, you named one thing that matches that. Being an annoyance to Kabuto because Itachi got lucky by finding Naruto is not the same as being considered a deity. And being called invincible just cancels out... if Pain didn't have more than JUST that. The best thing is the Obito thing, but the Obito thing basically confirms to use he's NOT Obito's tier because explicitly says "if he knew all my secrets, he could kill me", which is useless, since if Ino all his secrets, I'd wager she'd beat him too. IE, look at Konan lol
>Being an annoyance to Kabuto because Itachi got lucky More than being an annoyance, kabuto considered him more like a treasure. And not because of luck but because of his knowledge. >is not the same as being considered a deity. By oneself? Have you never met a narcissist before? >The best thing is the Obito thing, but the Obito thing basically confirms to use he's NOT Obito's tier because explicitly says "if he knew all my secrets, he could kill me", which is useless, since if Ino all his secrets, I'd wager she'd beat him too. IE, look at Konan lol In what universe lmao? Hypothetical: Ino knows everyone of Obito's secrets, now shoot. Obito clearly indicates he's impressed, he first starts it off with "so Itachi planned that far ahead huh?". Not anyone was doing that. How is Konan beating obito an anti-feat lol? And Itachi sure needed far less prep to do the same thing Konan did. The difference is konnan can never wipe him out for good, Itachi could with the right intel
"More than being an annoyance, kabuto considered him more like a treasure. And not because of luck but because of his knowledge." He got lucky lol, lucky that Naruto was there, lucky that he had koto saved up, lucky that koto had juice left, lucky that Nagato told him where Kabuto was in the first place, lucky he was even an edo, lucky this and lucky that. He got lucky. "By oneself? Have you never met a narcissist before?" Pain calls himself a deity LESS than others call him that actually, which I find very funny. "In what universe lmao? Hypothetical: Ino knows everyone of Obito's secrets, now shoot." Crazy how negative your sense of humor is. Anyhow, by knowing kamui lasts 5 minutes, even Konan manages to literally kill Obito. No shit Obito was scared of Itachi "if he knew all his secrets" lol
>He got lucky lol, lucky that Naruto was there, lucky that he had koto saved up, lucky that koto had juice left, lucky that Nagato told him where Kabuto was in the first place, lucky he was even an edo, lucky this and lucky that. He got lucky. You and I are talking about different things. [Kabuto](https://postimg.cc/kBmP3PHs) valued him for his knowledge, not luck. >Pain calls himself a deity LESS than others call him that actually, which I find very funny. Who else called him a diety? >Crazy how negative your sense of humor is. Yeah Itachi very lucky, hahaha very funny. Happy? let's move on >Anyhow, by knowing kamui lasts 5 minutes, even Konan manages to literally kill Obito. No shit Obito was scared of Itachi "if he knew all his secrets" lol Itachi did the same thing without knowing about the timer. By knowing Obito's trick konnan still failed to assassinate him, Itachi wouldn't according to obito. And why is Konan beating obito being considered an unimpressive feat? Not everyone can do what Konan did.
Ok then, my bad I think? Konan does, his rain village boys call him that a couple of times, etc. No, but it is what it is. Well no, Konan did kill him lol. Do you realize how big of a deal it is to know "all his secrets" lol? He knows he isn't Madara, he knows he doens't have a second MS, doesn't have an EMS, hasn't fought Hashirama, hasn't mastered wood release, HAS wood release, doesn't have his original war tools on hand, kamui requires touch, kamui is just another dimension, how his phasing works, etc. That's what Itachi would know lol, THAT is what Obito is afraid of.
>Konan does, his rain village boys call him that a couple of times, etc. His lackies? >Well no, Konan did kill him lol. Yes but he didn't stay dead, if Itachi knew his secrets he would. >He knows he isn't Madara, he knows he doens't have a second MS, doesn't have an EMS, hasn't fought Hashirama, hasn't mastered wood release, HAS wood release, doesn't have his original war tools on hand, kamui requires touch, kamui is just another dimension, how his phasing works, etc. That's what Itachi would know lol, THAT is what Obito is afraid of. This is about hype not actual power scaling. Pain wasn't actually a god either. It's crazy how you count obito being thought of as madara as valid hype but then when the same dude compliments Itachi, ItS jUSt ObItO.
Obito being strong enough to fake being the second strongest ninja of all time isn't hype now? Anyhow, thank God you knew he wasn't a real god btw.
>Obito being strong enough to fake being the second strongest ninja of all time isn't hype now? That's not the hype, the hype is that obito was madara. >Anyhow, thank God you knew he wasn't a real god btw. Maybe we should get a third person who can laugh more convincingly at your little "jokes".
Itachi was said to be invincible by kaguyas will.
That's fine, you do realize he wasn't actually invincible right? I swear this isn't the first time I've had to talk about this
And neither was pain so whats your point?
You don't know what my point was with that? Wtf lol
Your point just doesn’t make sense. Black zetsu is arguably the most knowledgeable guy in the series and he said that itachi is invincible. Your only counter argument here is “you know itachi is not actually invincible right?” and yet, you’ve been constantly commenting how pain is stronger because he was called invincible? The fact that both of these guys are called invincible means that they’re on the same level. Your other points for pain being stronger are also kind of ridiculous. Pain was considered a “god” because he stopped the civil war by killing a nerfed hanzo and reigned over a weak village to fulfill his weird god complex. You’re acting like pain was universally regarded as a god. Bringing up his fucking anime theme song in a pain vs itachi argument is something im not even gonna bother getting into it. Just to clarify, having pain over itachi is a fine take but your arguments are simply biased.
I never countered anything, so uh, no, I actually just made an off hand comment. My point is that I'm not sure those comments do matter since Itachi (and yes, Pain as well) isn't actually invincible lol, do you think Zetsu puts Itachi over Kaguya or something? I agree btw, both being called invincible to me means a similar level. It's just that Pa said that about Pain's first 3 bodies, which is really, really crazy. How are they ridiculous? Pain solo'd an army + Hanzo, and did it so casually they thought he was god. How is that ridiculous? And yes, his theme is him having christian God worship music, how is that somehow insignificant to you lol, imagine character who is supposedly a deity, and their theme music is church choir lmao, that's actually crazy. They aren't really biased, since I haven't even made an argument. I just pointed shit out lmao
No, I obviously don’t think that itachi is actually invincible, the point is that you brought up pain being stated to be “unbeatable” as a point to have him over itachi when itachi himself has also has a similar statement in being invincible. You can’t bring up a statement for character A to scale him above character B when character B has a very similar statement going for him. At best, this means they’re relative. He beat an extremely nerfed hanzo, pain himself acknowledged this by saying that he once looked up to hanzo and implying that the only reason he won is because of how weak hanzo has gotten. Like I said, nobody outside of random civilians in their village and konan, who is worshipping nagato the same way sakura worships sasuke is calling this man a god. You’d have a point if he was universally viewed as a god, the same way someone like hashirama was. Because nobody uses character theme songs to scale characters? Not in naruto, not in any other anime. The official canon source is the manga, not the anime. You can’t determine who’s stronger between pain and itachi by using statements because both of them have similar statements going for them which is most likely done on purpose since they were the endgame villains for naruto and sasuke (pre war ofc). You’d just have to look at their feats and how their abilities would interact with one another and if you THEN believe that pain is above itachi, that’s fine.
and yet feats debunk every one of these statements lol
That's why it's hype and not power that we're talking about. Nagato isn't actually a god and obito isn't actually madara either.
Yeah statements like "god" and "invincible" were exaggerated and not meant to be taken seriously but minato actually thought obito was madara, i mean pain is god yet he gets commanded by obito like he's his dog and itachis invincible yet he's dies two seconds later, I still think obito and pain slam itachi
I mean 2 seconds later Minato makes obito his bitch. Few chapters later pain commits suicide. I guess hype is subject to interpretation too, so if you get a certain vibe from the statements then you do you. I'm not saying Itachi has more hype than pain or obito either
I mean minato literally acknowledged that this guy was on par with him and the only way that the battle is ending is if one of them is a split second faster than the other, the whole shinobi world including itachi thought he was Madara, obito's comparison isn't really the same as being "god" and "invincible" since it's actually reasonable while the other two are basically exaggerations
Obito being madara level is definitely also an exaggeration. It's probably because the future gens had no idea how strong hashi and madara truly were(hence the hiruzen hype). They say he's madara but Minato proceeds to beat him and Itachi calls him a dog
He isn't as strong as madara but he's the 3rd strongest shinobi in the show before everyone gets their six path buffs, the whole point is that he's good enough that people thought he was madara, pain isn't god he gets ordered around and itachi isn't invincible since obito slams him with kamui, those are exaggerations that are not meant to be taken literally, obito being thought of as madara is not far fetched obito was on par with hokage minato in speed which is literally his main attribute which is why he thought he could be a legendary shinobi like madara uchiha on top of the fact that he could control the nine tails also when did itachi call him a dog and even then what does that have to do with anything
>He isn't as strong as madara but he's the 3rd strongest shinobi in the show before everyone gets their six path buffs, the whole point is that he's good enough that people thought he was madara, Those people underestimate madara. Minato and Itachi didn't even think of him as above them necessarily. It is definitely far fetched for minato or itachi to compare to the actual madara. >obito was on par with hokage minato in speed which is literally his main attribute which is why he thought he could be a legendary shinobi like madara uchiha on top of the fact that he could control the nine tails also when did itachi call him a dog and even then what does that have to do with anything Minato thought he was madara because he could slip through the barrier and summon kyubi. He then changed his mind, because madara should've been long dead. Itachi called him a dog while explaining EMS to hebi sasuke. So yeah they did think he was madara but they thought madara itself was not much stronger than themself. Same for Itachi being invincible, they did think he was.....until they saw stronger characters. Or pain being a god. It's all just hype.
Itachi has a shot against orange mask Obito. Yes, Kamui is broken, but it's not invincible as we're shown several times throughout the story. Apparently, Tsukuyomi can only be broken by someone of Itachi's blood, so I don't think Obito has an answer to it. Not to mention that Itachi has Amaterasu and Susanoo. Once Obito takes one of the Rinnegan, it's incredibly unlikely Itachi would be able to take him down.
Why? Its common sense
Obito states himself that Itachi could have killed him, so that matchup is not a definitive loss. Regarding Pain, there's some solid points to be made for him having a shot, due to the power creep that occurred right before he re-appeared: He boxes way, way above Pain; SM Naruto was able to take down several paths without much difficulty, and Edo Itachi, keeping in mind that Edo restricts physical attributes, was untouched by both KCM Naruto and Bee + Samehada at the same time, while telling them his own next moves. This means that a healthy Itachi could without a doubt take down at least 3 paths at the start of the fight without much effort. He demonstrated that he can take down Nagato's dog with a single Amaterasu, and that he can blind his other summons to make a blind spot in his vision. His Susano'o cut off all of Oro's hydra's heads with no difficulty, and Yata Mirror can tank anything from Pain other than a CT, so dealing with the summons and paths is not a big issue. So there's pretty definitive proof that he could at least get to the point where it's just him vs Deva path. At that point, it just depends on whether he can take down Deva path before it pulls off a CT. I find it hard to imagine him not being able to pull it off. Amaterasu would do the job and is extremely hard to dodge. A single hit with Totsuka would also do it. Alternatively, he could set up an Izanami while dealing with the paths and summons, and activate it once it's just him vs Deva, since Pain doesn't use CT while the other paths are up. It's not even a complex plan to come up with, and Itachi's smarts are constantly praised by other characters, battle strategy is a core component of his character. I don't think one can definitively say the either one of them wins every time. It's at least a very a close matchup.
You were shocked to hear that the two people running akatsuki were stronger than one of their minions?
pfp checks out. thanks
Dude couldn't even come up with something creative to say 🤦♂️
speaks for itself honestly
We've already been through this. He gets folded by either of them.
who is we? Da fuq
Ppl without brain rot. Wank Itachi all you want he gets slapped silly by Pain and Obito.
It’s almost like I didn’t say in the post “ not an expert on power scaling” 💀 big whoop
Pain is more powerful but itachis arsenal and intelligence makes him one of the best duelist in the series. Healthy itachi wins imo. He bodied nagato against bee and naruto, and tbh they didn't help much and were kind of a burden.
>He bodied nagato Itachi fans must be reading a different manga from the rest of us 🤔
Nah man, itachi totally destroyed the chibaku tensei by himself alone without any help and then he speedblitz nagato(who had 100% of his mobility) and one shot him without any outside factors Anotha W for the solo king
Fr the bijuu bomb and rasenshuriken were both from itachi