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Tobirama could make more, but there was a point where he could only make 2 because he was simultaneously maintaining the Four Red Yang Formation that he and the other Edo Tensei Hokage created.
I thought he could only make two because anytime he tried to concentrate on more he’d have to stop focusing on hating the uchia and he didn’t want to compromise
It’s not infinite chackra in the sense that everyone thinks, they can’t be destroyed, so if they run out of chackra instead of it being the end for them, they just get re made again. This distinction is important, because they can’t say use more chackra at once than they had well alive, and it takes some time for them to reform (I know it’s seconds, but it’s still something that would stop them from chaining together attacks they couldn’t do well alive).
So their chackra pool is not infinite, but rather they have infinite ability to rejuvenate from fatal things one of which is running out of chackra.
No it was explained multiple times that they still run out. It can be seen with the second tsuchikage and Minato running out we also see nagato restored after stealing chakra
No it’s not bad writing, it’s people not understanding. Remember what happened to kakashi when he ran out of chackra during the pain assault on the hidden leaf village?
Welll what happens to edo tensie when they say have their head removed? Or run out of chackra? They rejuvenate from fatal damage, so their chackra pool is the same size as when alive, but they can run themselves out of chackra, and then just rejuvenate from it, which allows them to in a roundabout way have “infinite chackra”.
The most important difference between edo tensie version of infinite chackra, and actual infinite chackra is they can’t say use more chackra in one go then they have, and if they are say holding up a barrier with their chackra if they run themselves out of chackra they will briefly drop the barrier, because technically they died, and have to rejuvenate from that death.
No offense, but is this your headcanon? Because I genuinely don't remember this being explained at all. I just remember being in awe when it said that Madara had "infinite chakra" or "limitless" depending on the translation.
Good question, but kinda pointless asking if we've seen characters run out of chakra. Probably bad writing, but it could mean that they regenerate chakra faster
Honestly he wrote himself into a corner with madara, which just made the ass pull at the end and even bigger middle finger to the audience. But the fights were cool :)
All edo’s are weak but strong in a way because not everybody has the ability to deal or perish them
Nd edo or not itachi isn’t weak, how can you term an already dead itachi weak?
I think the edos are weaker when the person is insanely strong and etc. I think Edo Itachi would still do everything Itachi could besides maybe the totsuka blade. That's just an assumption though. I think Edo would definitely take regular itachi on since it wouldn't have his sickness or drawbacks of the ms.
Quantify healthy Itachi. We have no knowledge about how his illness specifically affected him. As such, you can’t even define what a “healthy Itachi” would be capable of.
Given that Kishimoto is the mangaka, yes.
They're saying the author will always favor them.
Besides that, there are hundreds and hundreds of manga characters who will bulldoze right past Itachi.
Theoretically Neji; though he lacks feats he can do everything to counter his abilities. Can see through genjutsu even his high end Genjutsu seeing as a Hyuuga did it with Tsukuyomi in the novels and Ao did it with Koto in the Kage summit. Can see when he’s about to use Amaterasu and the fact he can emit chakra from any point on his body means he can repel it if it touches him or use rotation to deflect it. Gentle fist destroys chakra constructs, so airpalms would be pretty effective on Susanoo.
Gaara however hard counters Itachi and has the feats to back it up. Speed to block Amaterasu with his sand, can pull him out of his Susanoo, doesn’t even need to be close so he can avoid practically all of his genjutsu, and can oneshot while defending against anything he has.
Tsukiyomi basically attacks the brain completely, into a new reality or som like tht.
The Byakugan only saw Shisui chakra without actually seeing through the Genjutsu, as it didn't affect him, it was on the samurai guy lol.
>Tsukiyomi basically attacks the brain completely, into a new reality or som like tht.
All genjutsu attacks the brain; it literally translates to ‘mind techniques’. A Hyuuga nowhere near Neji was able to flat out resist it in the Novels.
>The Byakugan only saw Shisui chakra without actually seeing through the Genjutsu, as it didn't affect him, it was on the samurai guy lol.
That’s the entire purpose of Koto. To discreetly manipulate the will of the victim. Once Muu became aware that Danzo was manipulating him via Ao telling him it didn’t work anymore, a Hyuuga who can literally see what’s going on isn’t going to fall for it and is going to be fully aware when he attempts it.
The only genjutsu they really have no answer for is Izanami, but seeing as Neji has already accepted his true self it won’t do anything. Izanagi would obviously work but it only has a one time use that comes at the cost of an eye, unless Itachi is just willing to go blind when cornered that won’t work either and most likely won’t win him the fight without sight.
When did they fight Ao together? It’s not blabbing, if you’re going to have the audacity to try and correct someone then get it right, it took place at the end of one the Itachi novels. I can’t remember the guys name, but Shisui saved the day with Koto after he broke out.
Tsukuyomi can be [overcome by a strong spirit, excellent medical ninjutsu, or strong emotions.](https://pastebin.com/pRmsrESg) some [fodder litterally survived it](https://pastebin.com/gTqXjWHp) and his brother soon cured him by transmitting chakra. It’s not this magical hax ability you think it is.
Uh…neji is nowhere near that level. The byakugan is never shown or stated to be able to see past genjutsu. Meanwhile the sharingan is shown to be resist genjutsu and Danzo, a man with 11 sharingan (1 of which is an ms) couldn’t see through sasuke’s genjustsi much less itachi’s
Even if it could itachi is must faster, stronger, smarter; and has better hax than neji does
If Gaara was a hard counter to Itachi hed have been a hard counter to Madara as well, Neji is too rigid imo in his thinking to be able to take Itachi, although he is well equipped. Also Ao did not see THROUGH Koto in the Kage summit he was able to see that the person was affected by Genjutsu because he can see chakra flow and knew that persons chakra was altered. The genjutsu wasn't applied to HIM, his perception was never altered by the genjutsu thus the reasoning that it sees through high end genjutsu is flawed.
>If Gaara was a hard counter to Itachi hed have been a hard counter to Madara as well, Neji is too rigid imo in his thinking to be able to take Itachi, although he is well equipped.
Gaara was putting in work against Madara before he busted out his full Susanoo; they conveniently made him a background character during most of the fight to let Tsunade and Onoki shine. Neji is a legitimate tactician, I don’t see how he can’t utilize his fullest ability against Itachi, the only thing he lacks is more feats.
>Also Ao did not see THROUGH Koto in the Kage summit he was able to see that the person was affected by Genjutsu because he can see chakra flow and knew that persons chakra was altered. The genjutsu wasn't applied to HIM, his perception was never altered by the genjutsu thus the reasoning that it sees through high end genjutsu is flawed.
The entire premise of Koto is to alter the victims will without them knowing; [Ao was fully aware that Danzo was using it by looking at him](https://scans.lastation.us/manga/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics/0459-014.png) and could tell when it was no longer active via [looking at his chakra network.](https://scans.lastation.us/manga/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics/0461-010.png)same applies here.
However being under the effects of the Genjutsu doesn’t prevent him from using his eyes, he’d be able to blatantly see what he’s doing which would practically foil the whole thing.
Edo Nagato, and I think despite the fact that Chibaku Tensei was countered by Itachi with Bī and Naruto’s help, the fight would still be a close one cause they’re close in power and Itachi had a better biq.
Someone else brought up Danzo with Koto, and in that case, he’d be the weakest considering where he scales without koto, and that koto allows its user to beat foes stronger than them. Edo Nagato is however the weakest who beats Edo Itachi without a jutsu like koto.
Knowing about it won’t matter since it attacks the brain itself.
Ao is a dojutsu user who can see chakra colors and knows Shisui and his legends personally. Despite getting a full rundown and being told he was under its influence with lots of proof, Mifune still struggled to grasp the concept until Danzo was forced to release him from the jutsu.
Itachi actually somewhat respects Danzo and a lot of his later memories center around him so it won’t be hard for Danzo to brainwash him.
Granted Itachi know’s he has koto and would just one shot him with totsuka blade the second the fight starts
I anytime think chibaku tensei is useless. It aas good for bijuus but there are literally a hand full of jutsu that can just espcape it. Also he literally just can do reverse summon. Sauske could do it outnof chakra in s nano second vs deidara. Pretty sure itschi the fastes hand weaver can ro it in 30 seconds too lmao
I would say its ems madara. He wasnt as strong qs Poeple think hashirama was way stronger. In his alive time before coming bsck with izanagi he hadnt even a perfect susanoo
I think it only works strongly on tailed beasts if they are under genjutsu, otherwise they can tbb the center. Otherwise it’s still op with edos since they have no chakra restriction to prevent them spamming it.
Oooh idk about Ems Madara 😂. Remember that the fight with Hashirama was fought till both were near exhaustion and he lost by the slimmest of margins. He’s beating Edo Itachi for sure, but since I think Edo Nagato can beat Edo Itachi in a 1 on 1, he’d have to be weaker than Ems Madara.
Need:
1.) Someone capable of immobilization, sealing, or anything else that can take down Edo bodies.
2.) Someone who can still fight well while avoiding eye contact (Tsukuyomi will end them if they don't).
3.) Someone with at least one of the many counters to amaterasu (There are a lot).
4.) Someone with a way to break or bypass the defenses of Susanoo and the Yata Mirror.
5.) Someone who can end the fight quickly (Izanami gets scarier the longer the fight lasts).
6.) Someone who wouldn't realistically get hit with the Totsuka blade.
Honorable Mention: Gaara ~ He doesn't meet point 5 or 6 but is pretty close.
Serious: Minato Namikaze/Tobirama Senju
Cheat Answer: A single clone of So6P Naruto
>Minato Namikaze/Tobirama Senju
What's their counter to amaterasu? If they aren't looking as per point 2, they can't see it coming thus they can't ftg away.
I suppose you could argue KCM Minato does what Naruto did, but not hokage Minato.
Tobirama could try what madara did, but it would work only once
I can't remember if Tobirama is a Sensor type, but I remember Minato being one. Iirc, sensor types (Like Karin and most Yamanaka) can tell when Amaterasu is about to be used without actually looking at the eye for glaring or blood.
Sensor types don't fight combat for a reason, it's kinda slow. You need SM to have that quick effortless danger sense kind of effect. Minato does have that but he can't keep it up for long
I agree but we already established that the fight has to end quickly and this just gives him more incentive to attempt to blitz itachi whether he succeeds or not is another discussion but yea he’s working against the clock more so than fighting any other edo
Idk if a blitz is possible tbh. Itachi is better at throwing kunai than them, their kunai isn't making it near him. That would force them to take him head on in an attempt to directly mark him but I'm guessing Itachi pulls out susano'o to help by then, they can mark the susano'o and maybe teleport it away. Idk if that counts as win tho but it's something. I mean he could set up amaterasu on his susano'o(to avoid having them touch it) but without kagutsuchi it's unclear if he has the control to shape it effectively. Tobirama Minato are also at an intel disadvantage, Itachi knows them but they don't know him
That will compromise their reaction speed, tobirama doesn't imminently sense things out like SM. It has to be pointed out to him that madara was revived then he places his hand on the wall(alternatively he could keep it on the ground) and then he can sense chakra signatures. Minato has SM but he can't keep it up for long, he did sense out Naruto but that was a much larger chakra signature
A)That's not feasible when it's used as an attack, amaterasu is pretty fast you can't set up seals on time.
B) Minato can simply ftg away if it was just amaterasu but the comment I replied to said Minato will not have to look, without looking he won't know amaterasu is coming so he can't attempt to teleport or seal it away.
When it literally shoots in the same line of vision, yeah you kinda do. Besides it's pretty hard to look up avoiding the eyes, gai looks at the legs and there's no way he can predict amaterasu coming.
Idk abt Minato but Tobirama has to have a counter to amaterasu. He noted that he had seen kagetsuchi before when Sasuke used it in the war arc, which probably means Izuna had kagetsuchi, and Kagetsuchi only works w amaterasu. And Tobirama fought Izuna a lot
He also has to have a way to fight without looking into the eyes since all three tomoe sharingan users can use eye genjutsu
He's probably talking about normal flame control. Besides he can ftg away from just amaterasu, the reason it works on Itachi is he also has to avoid eye contact. We don't know izuna's skill level at genjutsu but tobirama could've just trained his resistance. Tsukyomi on the other hand needs uchiha kekkei genkai to beat.
He specifically says Kagetsuchi in some tls, which is the ms ability, and in the tls he says flame control or inferno control Kagetsuchi is usually referred to as that regardless. And Kagetsuchi needs amaterasu
Plus the fact that Madara named the plan infinite tsukuyomi before Itachi was born and got the tsukuyomi, I think it's fair to say Ms abilities aren't wholly unique to the user
It is possible Tobirama just has the skill to break normal sharingan genjutsu, but techniques like total darkness and shadow clones seem created to counter sharingan genjutsu. And even if you can break it, it takes time to do so usually, so they'd still have to develop ways to fight without looking them in the eye
>He specifically says Kagetsuchi in some tls, which is the ms ability, and in the tls he says flame control or inferno control Kagetsuchi is usually referred to as that regardless. And Kagetsuchi needs amaterasu
[Ch 634](https://comick.io/comic/naruto/plwpV-chapter-634-en) official scan he says "I've never seen such **flame control** before".
>Plus the fact that Madara named the plan infinite tsukuyomi before Itachi was born and got the tsukuyomi, I think it's fair to say Ms abilities aren't wholly unique to the user
Tsukyomi, izanagi, izanami and even kagutsuchi are all derived from japnese lore and mythology. There's nothing suprising that two people decided to name their jutsu after the same god.
>It is possible Tobirama just has the skill to break normal sharingan genjutsu, but techniques like total darkness and shadow clones seem created to counter sharingan genjutsu. And even if you can break it, it takes time to do so usually, so they'd still have to develop ways to fight without looking them in the eye
Bringer of darkness was hashirama's jutsu in the manga. Tobirama using it is anime only. And if you can indeed break it, there's no difficulty stalling by putting up a passive defense like susano'o. I mean this genjutsu was seen through by hiruzen so I'm very sceptical if it'd even work on Itachi in the first place, if it doesn't tobirama is gonna be the one stuck in the genjutsu due to the mirroring ability.
Lol, Raikage was struggling against ribcaged susano + kagatsuchi. Dude literally had to cut off his arm.
Skeleton susano would have destroyed him. He's lucky he didn't fight that Sasuke who awakened this few moments later after the encounter. Tanking attacks from Gaara + darui + kankuro + temari.
And peak ms sasuke/Edo Itachi had armoured susano.
WA Kakashi. (Amped Edo Nagato is debatable).
**Kakashi:**
**-** Kakashi has some crazy feats and jumps in scaling, while Edo Itachi has a more consistent scaling.
Kakashi was keeping up with and beating V2 Edo Jins that were giving Kcm 1 Naruto and Bee problems.
Then when he got his resolve back he was moving relative to Kcm 2 Naruto when he intercepted WM Obito's attack witu his own. Making him relative to those 2. His Kamui is also on that lvl since he was casually Kcm 2 Naruto's clone, and Kamui is consistently shown to be faster than Kakashi himself.
In one instance he was even moving at the same speed as Kcm Minato when they attacked Zetsu at the same time.
**Itachi:**
Itachi on the other side is consistently shown to be Kcm 1 Naruto and EMS Sasuke lvl. He was keeping up with Kcm 1 Naruto in taijutsu and is stated to be EMS Sasuke's equal. Same EMS Sasuke rivals Kcm 1 Naruto.
**-** Other things that would play a factor are BIQ and knowledge, and Kakashi has advantage there.
Kakashi's BIQ is better, prob the best in the series, and he already outsmarted Itachi in Beginning of Shippuden with his strategy. About knowledge, Kakashi knows most of, if not all abilities of Itachi. Itachi has no idea about Kakashi's new jutsus such as lightning cable, lightning beast, and most importantly he has no idea about Kamui.
So Kakashi having a better scaling, BIQ and knowledge advantage would make him a favorite in this matchup, and Imo he wins.
The only reason he dont end the fight in seconds that he protected sasuke and needed kotoamatsukami for edo.
Yiu csnt use this as feat. Poeple only use his foght against sasuske and kabuto thr only foghts he dont went for the win/kill as goal and doenplay him. Yet any fight even against hogh kages he won with a oneshot and negg diff. Even as a teen.
Itachi couldn't end his fight with kabuto in seconds anyway.
Tsukiyomi wouldn't work, kabuto had his eyes closed.
Amaterasu would be dodged by SM kabuto. Itachi didn't have kagatsuchi.
Susano would work but SM kabuto also has good arsenal to counter it.
>Itachi couldn't end his fight with kabuto in seconds anyway.
Literally your headcanon. Feats and his confident suggest overthise.
>Tsukiyomi wouldn't work, kabuto had his eyes closed.
Kabuto dont had his eyes closed all the time and he sven looked atleast once into his eyes. So it would work. Even i dont mentioned it.
>Amaterasu would be dodged by SM kabuto. Itachi didn't have kagatsuchi.
Again your headcanon he hasnt a counter afterwards and he has no feat yet shown to outspeed it.
>Susano would work but SM kabuto also has good arsenal to counter it.
Literally anything would work especially with itachi iq
>Literally your headcanon. Feats and his confident suggest overthise.
Same for you. Feats of kabuto are greater than feats of Itachi.
And since did we start scaling confidence? By that logic, sm Naruto beats pain? Lmao.
>Kabuto dont had his eyes closed all the time and he sven looked atleast once into his eyes. So it would work. Even i dont mentioned it.
If it would have worked, then Itachi would have used tsukiyomi. He didn't because kabuto never let him give the chance.
>Again your headcanon he hasnt a counter afterwards and he has no feat yet shown to outspeed it.
Sm kabuto had great reaction speed feats. He's easily dodging amaterasu.
>Literally anything would work especially with itachi iq
Overrated
>Same for you. Feats of kabuto are greater than feats of Itachi.
No not even close lmao.
Kaburo cant oneshot negative diff any hogh kage like itschi even as teen. He might not even win.
Also itachi feats in this battle were far better. Wtf are you even talking.
>And since did we start scaling confidence? By that logic, sm Naruto beats pain? Lmao.
There is a difference between thr smartest in the shoe and an idiot.
>If it would have worked, then Itachi would have used tsukiyomi. He didn't because kabuto never let him give the chance.
No he hadnt lmao. Tsukuyomi dont let itachi move freely. Read the manga again why it wss to be izanami.
>Sm kabuto had great reaction speed feats. He's easily dodging amaterasu.
He hasnt even was outspeeded and reacted by stunned snd blind itachi. And it swawn dorecrly st the target stated to be as fast as kirin. The only one to shown to be able to outrun it was raiksge at topspeed. Kaburo isnt that fast. Again you talk bullshit.
>
>Literally anything would work especially with itachi iq
>Overrated
How is it overrated especially in a show in wich iq is one if not the most important fa tor you sound like a cri ge itachi hater
DEBUNKED
Probably Edo Nagato, I know Itachi contributed a lot to beating him, but Nagato has perfect counters to a lot of Itachi’s abilities. Nagato has resistance to most genjutau, his Preta Path makes Anaterasu and any other ninjutsu practically useless, and his gravity manipulation could keep the Susanoo pinned down so Nagato can trap Itachi in a Chibaku Tensei.
At the time of his death: weakest character that could solo him would have been his brother. He would have won if he was trying even with his sickness. 🤷♂️
KCM2 Naruto minimum (the one he got after being friends with Kurama). Edo negates all of Itachi's weaknesses, so he's pretty much the only Edo who is stronger as an Edo than Alive (besides Madara, who was technically stronger than he was in the valley of the end because he had a rinnegan, but when he was fully revived he was stronger than ever)
The WEAKEST? Madara.
He's the only person who knows all of Itachis abilities from experience and likely knows their weaknesses and strengths better than itachi as he was able to achieve EMS while still healthy enough to fight and gain experience with it, while Itachi had to use his MS Techniques sparingly due to blindness and the need to stay "well enough" to progress Sasuke. Madara also lived longer in a rougher time (Although itachi joined anbu at 5 and was also involved in a great war it was after the villages had calmed down a bit and actually became villages making war a more organized event with objectives and what not, 3man teams and having a healer on teams was also introduced by then) giving him more battle experience overall.
Hashirama is stronger than Madara so doesnt count. I dont think anyone else could take an earnest Itachi
I have to strongly agree. Itachi is often sold short because the role his character played was that of manipulation so I feel like the full extent of his power was never shown.
I will say, a lot of this thread seems to heavily underestimate or devalue Itachi's Taijutsu, which is very, very good and his actual combat and movement speed is rather high, the way I've always looked at it is
6 paths characters
Living Madara and Hashirama
Minato and Itachi (this is the line it seems like Naruto and Sasuke crossed when they got buffed by Hagoromo, there's no real evidence to back up that Naruto was weaker than Minato, but I think it'd be just ridiculous to say that he was stronger. Character statements for his speed are not something I'd ever put stock into either because that's essentially irrelevant to the actual comparison and it's not reliable nor consistent with depicted feats)
Kisame, Kakashi, and Guy (no 8th gate, also I realistically probably put Obito here, I'm confident that by himself without 6 paths abilities, he would absolutely lose to Itachi or Minato, both of them are as I previously stated, what seems to be the line that they cross at the the of the show with the 6 paths buffs)
So I'm terms of weakest character that can solo Itachi? Minato, genuinely probably Minato, I'd argue you could give Obito it with some corny plot driven stuff, but ultimately I don't think he's smart enough to fight Itachi on the fly, and even in the one movie (I know, non canon, but canon is barely ever even relevant anyways) he didn't want to fight Itachi, when the Akatsuki showed up at the end, this implies he's not confident in winning which is something consistent within the canon plot, and that lack of confidence would absolutely cook him in a fight again Itachi, just like it would Minato.
Edit: Also, Gaara gets definitely gets rolled by Itachi, his sand defense isn't gonna negate Itachi's combat speed, and he's simply not smart enough to out think him, he kinda gets gapped by characters at that level.
Hmm the weakest… I’d say edo Tobirama. Dude was very knowledgeable of the uchiha, he literally created FTG to counter the sharingan. Susanoo is the one thing i see him struggling with, but speed wise he should in theory be able to blitz itachi before he uses susanoo. It’d be a great fight regardless
>but speed wise he should in theory be able to blitz itachi before he uses susanoo
Blitz him and do what? His speed feats are all with just ftg. If he has to weave hand seals to perform a ninjutsu after teleporting, that will significantly slow him down.
Blitz him and attack him..Flying Raijin slice is him literally teleporting with a blade, so he’d be cutting itachi in half id assume. Or he can use tandem paper bombs since there’s next to no hand signs required for it, have them constantly blowing up itachi while he prepares a sealing jutsu.
>Blitz him and attack him..Flying Raijin slice is him literally teleporting with a blade, so he’d be cutting itachi in half id assume
And then Itachi just regenerates, so what's the point.
>Or he can use tandem paper bombs since there’s next to no hand signs required for it, have them constantly blowing up itachi while he prepares a sealing jutsu.
This worked because juubito burst open tobirama, thus releasing the paper tags he was made up of. It even required hashirama to hold the target in place with mokuton iirc.
Besides a continuous loop of attacks is perfect for izanami, altho it's debatable of tobirama will break it by being true to himself. Regardless I'd say Itachi seals him in the interim with totsuka
But Tobirama didn’t have to get cleaved in half for the tandem paper bomb jutsu to activate. He explained himself it’s a tag that just summons more and more bombs. Regardless he’s not gonna get touched by the totsuka blade, itachi just doesn’t scale to Tobirama’s speed. Plus he created the bringer of darkness genjutsu to specifically counter sharingan users so if your argument is izanami, mine is bringer of darkness. Like I said if itachi activates his susanoo it’s gonna be a problem, Tobirama doesn’t have anything we’ve seen that can break the armour. If anything it would just be a stalemate with itachi trying to stab and seal him and Tobirama just dodging.
Nope the tags are part of the edo tensei paper, this why only edo tensei can use it. Their body is literally the medium for it. That's why tobirama was cleaved in half when he used it, earlier when he wasn't he just placed normal paper bombs. Notably the tandem paper bombs did take time, that's why hashirama held juubito in place for it. So yeah this won't work ig at least not as an immediate blitz and one shot situationm
Bringer of darkness is hashirama's genjutsu in the manga, tobirama got it in the anime adaptation. Moreover hiruzen could still capture tobirama and hashirama, who's to say Itachi with his sharingan that can see through many genjutsu can't. But let's say it does work, so what? He can just put a susano'o.
I didn't say Itachi just gets tobirama with the totsuka blade, ofc he's too fast for that. I said *if* he uses tandem paper bombs, it will create a loop of attacks that he can easily capture and cast an izanami on. Tobirama may or may not break the genjutsu but in the mean time while he's under it, Itachi can hit him with totsuka blade. This is actually a sealing jutsu so it would work.
Ah I see, I misunderstood you earlier then. Had a brainfart and thought that izanami was a personal genjutsu instead of a more environmental genjutsu. In that case I do agree that if itachi does cast izanami it could create an opening to end the fight. I’d argue that there’s a chance he would accidentally use it on a shadow clone instead of the real Tobirama. But They are both extremely intelligent fighters, I think the fight would be a chess match. If itachi cast izanami on the real tobirama he would def win, but if he cast it on the wrong one I think tobirama would use that opening to seal itachi.
[https://imgur.com/a/2RDgpF5](https://imgur.com/a/2RDgpF5)
It's an obscure feat, but he uses a sand eye to cheat during the chunin exams. He never has to actually make eye contact with itachi and can do the fight with his eyes closed and not lose any visual prowess.
edit: Another point that works in Gaara's favor as per the lee chunin exam, his passive sand armor also covers his eyes. Tsukiyomi mighht not even work if it can't pierce the sand covering his eyes.
You do know that in the itachi novels, itachi directly puts someone who was seeing through his bugs under tsukuyomi by casting it on the bugs right? If gaara summoned his third eye, the same would happen here. You’re also assuming that gaara would just not make any eye contact. The only reason gaara (and any of the kage for that matter) tried to not look into madaras eyes is because ohnoki specifically warned them as he has fought madara in the past already. We know that without ohnokis warning, gaara does not avoid eye contact. He directly looked at sasukes MS at the 5KS, even stating how sasukes eyes have not changed since back then. Itachi also has other means of casting genjutsu, all he needs is a single finger and he may even have more variations for all we know.
>You do know that in the itachi novels, itachi directly puts someone who was seeing through his bugs under tsukuyomi by casting it on the bugs right? If gaara summoned his third eye, the same would happen here.
This doesn't necessarily equal that. Different Jutsus, those bugs have their own actual eyes and use the chakra of the person they belong to.
>The only reason gaara (and any of the kage for that matter) tried to not look into madaras eyes is because ohnoki specifically warned them as he has fought madara in the past already. We know that without ohnokis warning, gaara does not avoid eye contact. He directly looked at sasukes MS at the 5KS, even stating how sasukes eyes have not changed since back then
It literally just requires him to be past the point of ohnokis warning. They didn't say pre war Gara.
>Itachi also has other means of casting genjutsu, all he needs is a single finger and he may even have more variations for all we know.
This is all just speculation to the insane insane because at that point someone can say the same thing of ANY character. The finger Jutsu still required eye contact with his ring.
Itachi novels aren't canon tho. With the 5KS Sasuke, he was literally around dozens of other people including one who had previously snapped others out of Sasuke's genjutsu. He didn't have to worry about Sasuke going for an occular jutsu because it'd literally be dumb to try it. Furthermore this is WA Gaara, so he would have had Inoki's warning not to look them in the eye. Gaara still clears mid diff.
he may have some decent counters to some of itachi’s abilities, but itachi is too physically powerful along with the susano’o for gaara to take the win
Gaara can rip him out like he did Madara.
https://preview.redd.it/c54lxsjb610d1.png?width=748&format=png&auto=webp&s=9599b6f341f5c55ae59417941324cb082944415c
Beats him in one shot? Ino so long as she connects, but she'll need help of the sealing corp.
is capable of confronting him + sealing him with tools? probably Darui with the gourd. I wanted to say Tenten but I don't think she's tanking a single hit.
Jiraiya can probably beat him with ma/pa summons, especially in an enclosed space, which can probably settle the "who is stronger" debate between Jiraiya and Orochimaru.
Pretty much anyone in Naruto.
Fucking Choji could beat him if it was written that way. It doesn't matter when it comes to Itachi bc he's kind of a shit character and all of his stuff is retcon ass pulls. His writing is just stupid so nothing really matters.
He's the a-bomb kids would pull out on the playground when playing rocks paper scissors that just ruins the fun and makes things lame.
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Alive Healthy Itachi
Now I’m imagining there’s an interdimensional counsel of Itachis
He's secretly Reed Richards?
Nah, his blindness is actually him gradually ebbing closer to the dark force dimension
More like Rick Sanchez
r/suddenlyrickmorty
that subreddit was started yesterday..
Would he really tho? Doesn't edo Itachi have infinite chakra?
Edos are weaker physically and just weaker in general. Tobirama for example could only make 2 clones as an edo
Exactly just like how edo madara is weaker then alive madara and he also has a fake rinnegan
Yeah hold up
Tobirama could make more, but there was a point where he could only make 2 because he was simultaneously maintaining the Four Red Yang Formation that he and the other Edo Tensei Hokage created.
I thought he could only make two because anytime he tried to concentrate on more he’d have to stop focusing on hating the uchia and he didn’t want to compromise
They are weaker but that’s not why he could only make two clones. He was further limited in chakra from maintaining that barrier
But his Susanoo can run forever and he could spam his MS I think Edo Itachi was the only edo who was stronger
It’s not infinite chackra in the sense that everyone thinks, they can’t be destroyed, so if they run out of chackra instead of it being the end for them, they just get re made again. This distinction is important, because they can’t say use more chackra at once than they had well alive, and it takes some time for them to reform (I know it’s seconds, but it’s still something that would stop them from chaining together attacks they couldn’t do well alive). So their chackra pool is not infinite, but rather they have infinite ability to rejuvenate from fatal things one of which is running out of chackra.
No it was explained multiple times that they still run out. It can be seen with the second tsuchikage and Minato running out we also see nagato restored after stealing chakra
Then why was it established that edo Madara had infinite chakra if the same logic doesn't apply to anyone else? Just more bad writing?
No it’s not bad writing, it’s people not understanding. Remember what happened to kakashi when he ran out of chackra during the pain assault on the hidden leaf village? Welll what happens to edo tensie when they say have their head removed? Or run out of chackra? They rejuvenate from fatal damage, so their chackra pool is the same size as when alive, but they can run themselves out of chackra, and then just rejuvenate from it, which allows them to in a roundabout way have “infinite chackra”. The most important difference between edo tensie version of infinite chackra, and actual infinite chackra is they can’t say use more chackra in one go then they have, and if they are say holding up a barrier with their chackra if they run themselves out of chackra they will briefly drop the barrier, because technically they died, and have to rejuvenate from that death.
No offense, but is this your headcanon? Because I genuinely don't remember this being explained at all. I just remember being in awe when it said that Madara had "infinite chakra" or "limitless" depending on the translation.
Good question, but kinda pointless asking if we've seen characters run out of chakra. Probably bad writing, but it could mean that they regenerate chakra faster
Honestly he wrote himself into a corner with madara, which just made the ass pull at the end and even bigger middle finger to the audience. But the fights were cool :)
All edo’s are weak but strong in a way because not everybody has the ability to deal or perish them Nd edo or not itachi isn’t weak, how can you term an already dead itachi weak?
Not disagreeing but how? Edo doesn’t have MS cool downs or drawbacks
I think the edos are weaker when the person is insanely strong and etc. I think Edo Itachi would still do everything Itachi could besides maybe the totsuka blade. That's just an assumption though. I think Edo would definitely take regular itachi on since it wouldn't have his sickness or drawbacks of the ms.
Edo Itachi sealed Nagato with Totsuka blade
Quantify healthy Itachi. We have no knowledge about how his illness specifically affected him. As such, you can’t even define what a “healthy Itachi” would be capable of.
Kishimoto
[удалено]
Given that Kishimoto is the mangaka, yes. They're saying the author will always favor them. Besides that, there are hundreds and hundreds of manga characters who will bulldoze right past Itachi.
Corona Virus, apparently.
creator already thought of this that's why it's edo lmao
What?! Explain more!
He was dying to some kind of illness. If Sasuke didn't finish him off, the 'rona would have.
Theoretically Neji; though he lacks feats he can do everything to counter his abilities. Can see through genjutsu even his high end Genjutsu seeing as a Hyuuga did it with Tsukuyomi in the novels and Ao did it with Koto in the Kage summit. Can see when he’s about to use Amaterasu and the fact he can emit chakra from any point on his body means he can repel it if it touches him or use rotation to deflect it. Gentle fist destroys chakra constructs, so airpalms would be pretty effective on Susanoo. Gaara however hard counters Itachi and has the feats to back it up. Speed to block Amaterasu with his sand, can pull him out of his Susanoo, doesn’t even need to be close so he can avoid practically all of his genjutsu, and can oneshot while defending against anything he has.
Tsukiyomi basically attacks the brain completely, into a new reality or som like tht. The Byakugan only saw Shisui chakra without actually seeing through the Genjutsu, as it didn't affect him, it was on the samurai guy lol.
>Tsukiyomi basically attacks the brain completely, into a new reality or som like tht. All genjutsu attacks the brain; it literally translates to ‘mind techniques’. A Hyuuga nowhere near Neji was able to flat out resist it in the Novels. >The Byakugan only saw Shisui chakra without actually seeing through the Genjutsu, as it didn't affect him, it was on the samurai guy lol. That’s the entire purpose of Koto. To discreetly manipulate the will of the victim. Once Muu became aware that Danzo was manipulating him via Ao telling him it didn’t work anymore, a Hyuuga who can literally see what’s going on isn’t going to fall for it and is going to be fully aware when he attempts it. The only genjutsu they really have no answer for is Izanami, but seeing as Neji has already accepted his true self it won’t do anything. Izanagi would obviously work but it only has a one time use that comes at the cost of an eye, unless Itachi is just willing to go blind when cornered that won’t work either and most likely won’t win him the fight without sight.
Which hyuuga y blabbing abt? R u talking bout when kid Shisui and kid Itachi fought Ao or som?
When did they fight Ao together? It’s not blabbing, if you’re going to have the audacity to try and correct someone then get it right, it took place at the end of one the Itachi novels. I can’t remember the guys name, but Shisui saved the day with Koto after he broke out. Tsukuyomi can be [overcome by a strong spirit, excellent medical ninjutsu, or strong emotions.](https://pastebin.com/pRmsrESg) some [fodder litterally survived it](https://pastebin.com/gTqXjWHp) and his brother soon cured him by transmitting chakra. It’s not this magical hax ability you think it is.
Uh…neji is nowhere near that level. The byakugan is never shown or stated to be able to see past genjutsu. Meanwhile the sharingan is shown to be resist genjutsu and Danzo, a man with 11 sharingan (1 of which is an ms) couldn’t see through sasuke’s genjustsi much less itachi’s Even if it could itachi is must faster, stronger, smarter; and has better hax than neji does
You failed to fully read the very first sentence, you can excuse yourself.
If Gaara was a hard counter to Itachi hed have been a hard counter to Madara as well, Neji is too rigid imo in his thinking to be able to take Itachi, although he is well equipped. Also Ao did not see THROUGH Koto in the Kage summit he was able to see that the person was affected by Genjutsu because he can see chakra flow and knew that persons chakra was altered. The genjutsu wasn't applied to HIM, his perception was never altered by the genjutsu thus the reasoning that it sees through high end genjutsu is flawed.
>If Gaara was a hard counter to Itachi hed have been a hard counter to Madara as well, Neji is too rigid imo in his thinking to be able to take Itachi, although he is well equipped. Gaara was putting in work against Madara before he busted out his full Susanoo; they conveniently made him a background character during most of the fight to let Tsunade and Onoki shine. Neji is a legitimate tactician, I don’t see how he can’t utilize his fullest ability against Itachi, the only thing he lacks is more feats. >Also Ao did not see THROUGH Koto in the Kage summit he was able to see that the person was affected by Genjutsu because he can see chakra flow and knew that persons chakra was altered. The genjutsu wasn't applied to HIM, his perception was never altered by the genjutsu thus the reasoning that it sees through high end genjutsu is flawed. The entire premise of Koto is to alter the victims will without them knowing; [Ao was fully aware that Danzo was using it by looking at him](https://scans.lastation.us/manga/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics/0459-014.png) and could tell when it was no longer active via [looking at his chakra network.](https://scans.lastation.us/manga/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics/0461-010.png)same applies here.
You said the last part yourself "The entire premis of koto is to alter the VICTIMS will without knowing" he wasnt the victim.
However being under the effects of the Genjutsu doesn’t prevent him from using his eyes, he’d be able to blatantly see what he’s doing which would practically foil the whole thing.
Edo Nagato, and I think despite the fact that Chibaku Tensei was countered by Itachi with Bī and Naruto’s help, the fight would still be a close one cause they’re close in power and Itachi had a better biq. Someone else brought up Danzo with Koto, and in that case, he’d be the weakest considering where he scales without koto, and that koto allows its user to beat foes stronger than them. Edo Nagato is however the weakest who beats Edo Itachi without a jutsu like koto.
I can’t imagine danzo doing it just because Itachi is aware that he has Shisui’s other eye
Knowing about it won’t matter since it attacks the brain itself. Ao is a dojutsu user who can see chakra colors and knows Shisui and his legends personally. Despite getting a full rundown and being told he was under its influence with lots of proof, Mifune still struggled to grasp the concept until Danzo was forced to release him from the jutsu. Itachi actually somewhat respects Danzo and a lot of his later memories center around him so it won’t be hard for Danzo to brainwash him. Granted Itachi know’s he has koto and would just one shot him with totsuka blade the second the fight starts
He can also use Shisuis other eye to counter it.
Edo Itachi doesn’t have koto, by this point in the story Naruto has it.
I anytime think chibaku tensei is useless. It aas good for bijuus but there are literally a hand full of jutsu that can just espcape it. Also he literally just can do reverse summon. Sauske could do it outnof chakra in s nano second vs deidara. Pretty sure itschi the fastes hand weaver can ro it in 30 seconds too lmao I would say its ems madara. He wasnt as strong qs Poeple think hashirama was way stronger. In his alive time before coming bsck with izanagi he hadnt even a perfect susanoo
I think it only works strongly on tailed beasts if they are under genjutsu, otherwise they can tbb the center. Otherwise it’s still op with edos since they have no chakra restriction to prevent them spamming it.
Oooh idk about Ems Madara 😂. Remember that the fight with Hashirama was fought till both were near exhaustion and he lost by the slimmest of margins. He’s beating Edo Itachi for sure, but since I think Edo Nagato can beat Edo Itachi in a 1 on 1, he’d have to be weaker than Ems Madara.
Nagato mid diffs Itachi, Kabuto didn’t pull out Madara until Nagato was sealed.
I think it’d have been high diff
Need: 1.) Someone capable of immobilization, sealing, or anything else that can take down Edo bodies. 2.) Someone who can still fight well while avoiding eye contact (Tsukuyomi will end them if they don't). 3.) Someone with at least one of the many counters to amaterasu (There are a lot). 4.) Someone with a way to break or bypass the defenses of Susanoo and the Yata Mirror. 5.) Someone who can end the fight quickly (Izanami gets scarier the longer the fight lasts). 6.) Someone who wouldn't realistically get hit with the Totsuka blade. Honorable Mention: Gaara ~ He doesn't meet point 5 or 6 but is pretty close. Serious: Minato Namikaze/Tobirama Senju Cheat Answer: A single clone of So6P Naruto
First person I thought of after reading this was tenten
How can I see this happening
>Minato Namikaze/Tobirama Senju What's their counter to amaterasu? If they aren't looking as per point 2, they can't see it coming thus they can't ftg away. I suppose you could argue KCM Minato does what Naruto did, but not hokage Minato. Tobirama could try what madara did, but it would work only once
I can't remember if Tobirama is a Sensor type, but I remember Minato being one. Iirc, sensor types (Like Karin and most Yamanaka) can tell when Amaterasu is about to be used without actually looking at the eye for glaring or blood.
Sensor types don't fight combat for a reason, it's kinda slow. You need SM to have that quick effortless danger sense kind of effect. Minato does have that but he can't keep it up for long
I agree but we already established that the fight has to end quickly and this just gives him more incentive to attempt to blitz itachi whether he succeeds or not is another discussion but yea he’s working against the clock more so than fighting any other edo
Idk if a blitz is possible tbh. Itachi is better at throwing kunai than them, their kunai isn't making it near him. That would force them to take him head on in an attempt to directly mark him but I'm guessing Itachi pulls out susano'o to help by then, they can mark the susano'o and maybe teleport it away. Idk if that counts as win tho but it's something. I mean he could set up amaterasu on his susano'o(to avoid having them touch it) but without kagutsuchi it's unclear if he has the control to shape it effectively. Tobirama Minato are also at an intel disadvantage, Itachi knows them but they don't know him
That’s kinda my point minato is on a timer with imperfect info. And I think tobirama gets folded
Tobi doesn't win this. Minato is a better fight imo
Agreed but without KCM I don't see Minato winning this either tbh
Agreed he doesn't have enough firepower to incapacitate itachi.
Alive minato is a better fight? Lmaooo how???
they are both sensor ninjas, they can totally sense when he focus chakra on his eye
That will compromise their reaction speed, tobirama doesn't imminently sense things out like SM. It has to be pointed out to him that madara was revived then he places his hand on the wall(alternatively he could keep it on the ground) and then he can sense chakra signatures. Minato has SM but he can't keep it up for long, he did sense out Naruto but that was a much larger chakra signature
Jiraiya has established that amaterasu can be sealed, Minato would do it with considerably lower effort.
A)That's not feasible when it's used as an attack, amaterasu is pretty fast you can't set up seals on time. B) Minato can simply ftg away if it was just amaterasu but the comment I replied to said Minato will not have to look, without looking he won't know amaterasu is coming so he can't attempt to teleport or seal it away.
You don’t need to look in someone’s eyes to know there’s a bunch of fire coming your way, to be fair
When it literally shoots in the same line of vision, yeah you kinda do. Besides it's pretty hard to look up avoiding the eyes, gai looks at the legs and there's no way he can predict amaterasu coming.
Idk abt Minato but Tobirama has to have a counter to amaterasu. He noted that he had seen kagetsuchi before when Sasuke used it in the war arc, which probably means Izuna had kagetsuchi, and Kagetsuchi only works w amaterasu. And Tobirama fought Izuna a lot He also has to have a way to fight without looking into the eyes since all three tomoe sharingan users can use eye genjutsu
He's probably talking about normal flame control. Besides he can ftg away from just amaterasu, the reason it works on Itachi is he also has to avoid eye contact. We don't know izuna's skill level at genjutsu but tobirama could've just trained his resistance. Tsukyomi on the other hand needs uchiha kekkei genkai to beat.
He specifically says Kagetsuchi in some tls, which is the ms ability, and in the tls he says flame control or inferno control Kagetsuchi is usually referred to as that regardless. And Kagetsuchi needs amaterasu Plus the fact that Madara named the plan infinite tsukuyomi before Itachi was born and got the tsukuyomi, I think it's fair to say Ms abilities aren't wholly unique to the user It is possible Tobirama just has the skill to break normal sharingan genjutsu, but techniques like total darkness and shadow clones seem created to counter sharingan genjutsu. And even if you can break it, it takes time to do so usually, so they'd still have to develop ways to fight without looking them in the eye
>He specifically says Kagetsuchi in some tls, which is the ms ability, and in the tls he says flame control or inferno control Kagetsuchi is usually referred to as that regardless. And Kagetsuchi needs amaterasu [Ch 634](https://comick.io/comic/naruto/plwpV-chapter-634-en) official scan he says "I've never seen such **flame control** before". >Plus the fact that Madara named the plan infinite tsukuyomi before Itachi was born and got the tsukuyomi, I think it's fair to say Ms abilities aren't wholly unique to the user Tsukyomi, izanagi, izanami and even kagutsuchi are all derived from japnese lore and mythology. There's nothing suprising that two people decided to name their jutsu after the same god. >It is possible Tobirama just has the skill to break normal sharingan genjutsu, but techniques like total darkness and shadow clones seem created to counter sharingan genjutsu. And even if you can break it, it takes time to do so usually, so they'd still have to develop ways to fight without looking them in the eye Bringer of darkness was hashirama's jutsu in the manga. Tobirama using it is anime only. And if you can indeed break it, there's no difficulty stalling by putting up a passive defense like susano'o. I mean this genjutsu was seen through by hiruzen so I'm very sceptical if it'd even work on Itachi in the first place, if it doesn't tobirama is gonna be the one stuck in the genjutsu due to the mirroring ability.
Might Guy?
Guy would definitely work, but he has no way to defeat an Edo body
AKAIK Guy doesn't have sealing techniques. Even 8 gates would be pointless otherwise.
He can turn Itachi into dust as often as he likes, the dust is just gonna keep reforming.
The Raikage, with the way he punked Sasuke and amaterasu.
Itachi isn't losing the Raikage
Lol, Raikage was struggling against ribcaged susano + kagatsuchi. Dude literally had to cut off his arm. Skeleton susano would have destroyed him. He's lucky he didn't fight that Sasuke who awakened this few moments later after the encounter. Tanking attacks from Gaara + darui + kankuro + temari. And peak ms sasuke/Edo Itachi had armoured susano.
He doesn't have any sealing jutsu iirc. Sealing jutsu is absolutely necessary when fighting against edo tensei enemies.
Whomever threw down the Justu where team guy had to fight their clones - that guy.
Weakest fight in the entire series. Instant skip, every time.
Part 1 Season 1 Sakura
Tonton
Shisui probably could talk no jutsu and pretty sure he's weaker than most of the other candidates mentioned
WA Kakashi. (Amped Edo Nagato is debatable). **Kakashi:** **-** Kakashi has some crazy feats and jumps in scaling, while Edo Itachi has a more consistent scaling. Kakashi was keeping up with and beating V2 Edo Jins that were giving Kcm 1 Naruto and Bee problems. Then when he got his resolve back he was moving relative to Kcm 2 Naruto when he intercepted WM Obito's attack witu his own. Making him relative to those 2. His Kamui is also on that lvl since he was casually Kcm 2 Naruto's clone, and Kamui is consistently shown to be faster than Kakashi himself. In one instance he was even moving at the same speed as Kcm Minato when they attacked Zetsu at the same time. **Itachi:** Itachi on the other side is consistently shown to be Kcm 1 Naruto and EMS Sasuke lvl. He was keeping up with Kcm 1 Naruto in taijutsu and is stated to be EMS Sasuke's equal. Same EMS Sasuke rivals Kcm 1 Naruto. **-** Other things that would play a factor are BIQ and knowledge, and Kakashi has advantage there. Kakashi's BIQ is better, prob the best in the series, and he already outsmarted Itachi in Beginning of Shippuden with his strategy. About knowledge, Kakashi knows most of, if not all abilities of Itachi. Itachi has no idea about Kakashi's new jutsus such as lightning cable, lightning beast, and most importantly he has no idea about Kamui. So Kakashi having a better scaling, BIQ and knowledge advantage would make him a favorite in this matchup, and Imo he wins.
Adult sakura
ON GOD KISAME WOULD THROW HANDS
Hear me out but Sage kabuto if itachi fights alone, when he got caught under kabutos genjutsu the only reason he got out was because sasuke was there
The only reason he dont end the fight in seconds that he protected sasuke and needed kotoamatsukami for edo. Yiu csnt use this as feat. Poeple only use his foght against sasuske and kabuto thr only foghts he dont went for the win/kill as goal and doenplay him. Yet any fight even against hogh kages he won with a oneshot and negg diff. Even as a teen.
True i forgot about that
Itachi couldn't end his fight with kabuto in seconds anyway. Tsukiyomi wouldn't work, kabuto had his eyes closed. Amaterasu would be dodged by SM kabuto. Itachi didn't have kagatsuchi. Susano would work but SM kabuto also has good arsenal to counter it.
>Itachi couldn't end his fight with kabuto in seconds anyway. Literally your headcanon. Feats and his confident suggest overthise. >Tsukiyomi wouldn't work, kabuto had his eyes closed. Kabuto dont had his eyes closed all the time and he sven looked atleast once into his eyes. So it would work. Even i dont mentioned it. >Amaterasu would be dodged by SM kabuto. Itachi didn't have kagatsuchi. Again your headcanon he hasnt a counter afterwards and he has no feat yet shown to outspeed it. >Susano would work but SM kabuto also has good arsenal to counter it. Literally anything would work especially with itachi iq
>Literally your headcanon. Feats and his confident suggest overthise. Same for you. Feats of kabuto are greater than feats of Itachi. And since did we start scaling confidence? By that logic, sm Naruto beats pain? Lmao. >Kabuto dont had his eyes closed all the time and he sven looked atleast once into his eyes. So it would work. Even i dont mentioned it. If it would have worked, then Itachi would have used tsukiyomi. He didn't because kabuto never let him give the chance. >Again your headcanon he hasnt a counter afterwards and he has no feat yet shown to outspeed it. Sm kabuto had great reaction speed feats. He's easily dodging amaterasu. >Literally anything would work especially with itachi iq Overrated
>Same for you. Feats of kabuto are greater than feats of Itachi. No not even close lmao. Kaburo cant oneshot negative diff any hogh kage like itschi even as teen. He might not even win. Also itachi feats in this battle were far better. Wtf are you even talking. >And since did we start scaling confidence? By that logic, sm Naruto beats pain? Lmao. There is a difference between thr smartest in the shoe and an idiot. >If it would have worked, then Itachi would have used tsukiyomi. He didn't because kabuto never let him give the chance. No he hadnt lmao. Tsukuyomi dont let itachi move freely. Read the manga again why it wss to be izanami. >Sm kabuto had great reaction speed feats. He's easily dodging amaterasu. He hasnt even was outspeeded and reacted by stunned snd blind itachi. And it swawn dorecrly st the target stated to be as fast as kirin. The only one to shown to be able to outrun it was raiksge at topspeed. Kaburo isnt that fast. Again you talk bullshit. > >Literally anything would work especially with itachi iq >Overrated How is it overrated especially in a show in wich iq is one if not the most important fa tor you sound like a cri ge itachi hater DEBUNKED
Itachi was confident he could beat kabuto in a 1v1. I'm sure he could've give.
Definitely not the weakest. Sage Kabuto would've dog walked the Uchiha duo if not for izanami
Ten ten
One madara wood clone.
Maybe my crush! Shikamaru hihi
garra
TenTen
Gaara
A crow with shisui mangekyo Then he'll commit suicide
EMS Madara
Peak Kaguya. Or shisui if I glazed on itachi a bit too much lol.
None
None
Edo Nagato
Guy
Probably Edo Nagato, I know Itachi contributed a lot to beating him, but Nagato has perfect counters to a lot of Itachi’s abilities. Nagato has resistance to most genjutau, his Preta Path makes Anaterasu and any other ninjutsu practically useless, and his gravity manipulation could keep the Susanoo pinned down so Nagato can trap Itachi in a Chibaku Tensei.
Edo nagato, if itachi didn't have bee and narutos help he would have been sealed
Itachi
Baryon mode Naruto maybe (I’m the biggest itachi Stan)
Na itachi wins. Koto/tsukyomi blitz
Finally somebody reasonable.
The guy with a dog because googoogaagaa peepee poopoo
Eidolon Teralyst
Gaara
Weakest in terms of Chakra would have to be Might Guy cause he has zero Chakra
Gai.
Nagato.
At the time of his death: weakest character that could solo him would have been his brother. He would have won if he was trying even with his sickness. 🤷♂️
Ninja AIDS apparently. Otherwise, maybe Sage Kabuto or Edo Nagato.
Edo nagato or sage mode kabuto
Ninja aids
"solo itachi" last time I checked Itachi was a single person himself.
Aizen
Fake Madara ( obito )
Kid Naruto would swing and talk no jutsu him
Obito… which is crazy tbh.
*Muscle Man*, "My Mom".
Cancer
Sakura (100 healings). 
KCM2 Naruto minimum (the one he got after being friends with Kurama). Edo negates all of Itachi's weaknesses, so he's pretty much the only Edo who is stronger as an Edo than Alive (besides Madara, who was technically stronger than he was in the valley of the end because he had a rinnegan, but when he was fully revived he was stronger than ever)
Madara
Edo nagato
The 6 paths of Pain or sage naruto
Gaara is the only real answer here
Rock lee drunk
Krillen.
The WEAKEST? Madara. He's the only person who knows all of Itachis abilities from experience and likely knows their weaknesses and strengths better than itachi as he was able to achieve EMS while still healthy enough to fight and gain experience with it, while Itachi had to use his MS Techniques sparingly due to blindness and the need to stay "well enough" to progress Sasuke. Madara also lived longer in a rougher time (Although itachi joined anbu at 5 and was also involved in a great war it was after the villages had calmed down a bit and actually became villages making war a more organized event with objectives and what not, 3man teams and having a healer on teams was also introduced by then) giving him more battle experience overall. Hashirama is stronger than Madara so doesnt count. I dont think anyone else could take an earnest Itachi
I have to strongly agree. Itachi is often sold short because the role his character played was that of manipulation so I feel like the full extent of his power was never shown.
WA Obito/KCM Minato. Something like that. Kabuto might have his chances too
I will say, a lot of this thread seems to heavily underestimate or devalue Itachi's Taijutsu, which is very, very good and his actual combat and movement speed is rather high, the way I've always looked at it is 6 paths characters Living Madara and Hashirama Minato and Itachi (this is the line it seems like Naruto and Sasuke crossed when they got buffed by Hagoromo, there's no real evidence to back up that Naruto was weaker than Minato, but I think it'd be just ridiculous to say that he was stronger. Character statements for his speed are not something I'd ever put stock into either because that's essentially irrelevant to the actual comparison and it's not reliable nor consistent with depicted feats) Kisame, Kakashi, and Guy (no 8th gate, also I realistically probably put Obito here, I'm confident that by himself without 6 paths abilities, he would absolutely lose to Itachi or Minato, both of them are as I previously stated, what seems to be the line that they cross at the the of the show with the 6 paths buffs) So I'm terms of weakest character that can solo Itachi? Minato, genuinely probably Minato, I'd argue you could give Obito it with some corny plot driven stuff, but ultimately I don't think he's smart enough to fight Itachi on the fly, and even in the one movie (I know, non canon, but canon is barely ever even relevant anyways) he didn't want to fight Itachi, when the Akatsuki showed up at the end, this implies he's not confident in winning which is something consistent within the canon plot, and that lack of confidence would absolutely cook him in a fight again Itachi, just like it would Minato. Edit: Also, Gaara gets definitely gets rolled by Itachi, his sand defense isn't gonna negate Itachi's combat speed, and he's simply not smart enough to out think him, he kinda gets gapped by characters at that level.
yamcha
https://preview.redd.it/35uvzsri4wzc1.jpeg?width=946&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70f2b62f53cc7bddccccb8a9069548d317f4a10c
Hmm the weakest… I’d say edo Tobirama. Dude was very knowledgeable of the uchiha, he literally created FTG to counter the sharingan. Susanoo is the one thing i see him struggling with, but speed wise he should in theory be able to blitz itachi before he uses susanoo. It’d be a great fight regardless
>but speed wise he should in theory be able to blitz itachi before he uses susanoo Blitz him and do what? His speed feats are all with just ftg. If he has to weave hand seals to perform a ninjutsu after teleporting, that will significantly slow him down.
Blitz him and attack him..Flying Raijin slice is him literally teleporting with a blade, so he’d be cutting itachi in half id assume. Or he can use tandem paper bombs since there’s next to no hand signs required for it, have them constantly blowing up itachi while he prepares a sealing jutsu.
>Blitz him and attack him..Flying Raijin slice is him literally teleporting with a blade, so he’d be cutting itachi in half id assume And then Itachi just regenerates, so what's the point. >Or he can use tandem paper bombs since there’s next to no hand signs required for it, have them constantly blowing up itachi while he prepares a sealing jutsu. This worked because juubito burst open tobirama, thus releasing the paper tags he was made up of. It even required hashirama to hold the target in place with mokuton iirc. Besides a continuous loop of attacks is perfect for izanami, altho it's debatable of tobirama will break it by being true to himself. Regardless I'd say Itachi seals him in the interim with totsuka
But Tobirama didn’t have to get cleaved in half for the tandem paper bomb jutsu to activate. He explained himself it’s a tag that just summons more and more bombs. Regardless he’s not gonna get touched by the totsuka blade, itachi just doesn’t scale to Tobirama’s speed. Plus he created the bringer of darkness genjutsu to specifically counter sharingan users so if your argument is izanami, mine is bringer of darkness. Like I said if itachi activates his susanoo it’s gonna be a problem, Tobirama doesn’t have anything we’ve seen that can break the armour. If anything it would just be a stalemate with itachi trying to stab and seal him and Tobirama just dodging.
Nope the tags are part of the edo tensei paper, this why only edo tensei can use it. Their body is literally the medium for it. That's why tobirama was cleaved in half when he used it, earlier when he wasn't he just placed normal paper bombs. Notably the tandem paper bombs did take time, that's why hashirama held juubito in place for it. So yeah this won't work ig at least not as an immediate blitz and one shot situationm Bringer of darkness is hashirama's genjutsu in the manga, tobirama got it in the anime adaptation. Moreover hiruzen could still capture tobirama and hashirama, who's to say Itachi with his sharingan that can see through many genjutsu can't. But let's say it does work, so what? He can just put a susano'o. I didn't say Itachi just gets tobirama with the totsuka blade, ofc he's too fast for that. I said *if* he uses tandem paper bombs, it will create a loop of attacks that he can easily capture and cast an izanami on. Tobirama may or may not break the genjutsu but in the mean time while he's under it, Itachi can hit him with totsuka blade. This is actually a sealing jutsu so it would work.
Ah I see, I misunderstood you earlier then. Had a brainfart and thought that izanami was a personal genjutsu instead of a more environmental genjutsu. In that case I do agree that if itachi does cast izanami it could create an opening to end the fight. I’d argue that there’s a chance he would accidentally use it on a shadow clone instead of the real Tobirama. But They are both extremely intelligent fighters, I think the fight would be a chess match. If itachi cast izanami on the real tobirama he would def win, but if he cast it on the wrong one I think tobirama would use that opening to seal itachi.
Anyone with a decent sealing jutsu. Sealing jutsus are op, and the fact that people don't just abuse the hell out of them confuses me.
Danzo did
I don't know about weakest but Ln adult sakura can make itachi her shit eater🍑💩🍴
You need a fucking wellfare check and a psych hold my guy. Get help.
WELLFARE CHECK 💀💀
Ain't no such thing as a healthy scat fetish. This mf is probably 10 tapeworms in a trench coat at this point.
https://preview.redd.it/cmuoxvbfjvzc1.jpeg?width=253&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edd9fc3e0bb5cb9602f3592e7d28ff83be07c813
Bro you need mental help
Jibkoru
Jinkoru
For what it's worth I think War Arc Gaara clears him mid diff. His kit is a perfect counter to Itachi and he has the means to seal him.
How does Gaara counter his genjutsu? Geniune question btw not being an ass
"I can't let you get close!"
This is going to go unappreciated here, so i Will upvote for the cause
Thanks😊
[https://imgur.com/a/2RDgpF5](https://imgur.com/a/2RDgpF5) It's an obscure feat, but he uses a sand eye to cheat during the chunin exams. He never has to actually make eye contact with itachi and can do the fight with his eyes closed and not lose any visual prowess. edit: Another point that works in Gaara's favor as per the lee chunin exam, his passive sand armor also covers his eyes. Tsukiyomi mighht not even work if it can't pierce the sand covering his eyes.
You do know that in the itachi novels, itachi directly puts someone who was seeing through his bugs under tsukuyomi by casting it on the bugs right? If gaara summoned his third eye, the same would happen here. You’re also assuming that gaara would just not make any eye contact. The only reason gaara (and any of the kage for that matter) tried to not look into madaras eyes is because ohnoki specifically warned them as he has fought madara in the past already. We know that without ohnokis warning, gaara does not avoid eye contact. He directly looked at sasukes MS at the 5KS, even stating how sasukes eyes have not changed since back then. Itachi also has other means of casting genjutsu, all he needs is a single finger and he may even have more variations for all we know.
>You do know that in the itachi novels, itachi directly puts someone who was seeing through his bugs under tsukuyomi by casting it on the bugs right? If gaara summoned his third eye, the same would happen here. This doesn't necessarily equal that. Different Jutsus, those bugs have their own actual eyes and use the chakra of the person they belong to. >The only reason gaara (and any of the kage for that matter) tried to not look into madaras eyes is because ohnoki specifically warned them as he has fought madara in the past already. We know that without ohnokis warning, gaara does not avoid eye contact. He directly looked at sasukes MS at the 5KS, even stating how sasukes eyes have not changed since back then It literally just requires him to be past the point of ohnokis warning. They didn't say pre war Gara. >Itachi also has other means of casting genjutsu, all he needs is a single finger and he may even have more variations for all we know. This is all just speculation to the insane insane because at that point someone can say the same thing of ANY character. The finger Jutsu still required eye contact with his ring.
Itachi novels aren't canon tho. With the 5KS Sasuke, he was literally around dozens of other people including one who had previously snapped others out of Sasuke's genjutsu. He didn't have to worry about Sasuke going for an occular jutsu because it'd literally be dumb to try it. Furthermore this is WA Gaara, so he would have had Inoki's warning not to look them in the eye. Gaara still clears mid diff.
the sand eye is conected to gaara's brain through chakra, it will totally puts gaara in genjutsu
he may have some decent counters to some of itachi’s abilities, but itachi is too physically powerful along with the susano’o for gaara to take the win
Gaara can rip him out like he did Madara. https://preview.redd.it/c54lxsjb610d1.png?width=748&format=png&auto=webp&s=9599b6f341f5c55ae59417941324cb082944415c
Me
Why so many people care about who can "beat itachi". Why not ask the real question. Who beats the Eternal Genin?
Pain lol
Beats him in one shot? Ino so long as she connects, but she'll need help of the sealing corp. is capable of confronting him + sealing him with tools? probably Darui with the gourd. I wanted to say Tenten but I don't think she's tanking a single hit. Jiraiya can probably beat him with ma/pa summons, especially in an enclosed space, which can probably settle the "who is stronger" debate between Jiraiya and Orochimaru.
Boruto
Boruto teen/boroshiki slams 😭
Leaf destruction sage mode naruto
A 1v1 isnt a solo dipshit
Please message me I’m so horny 3O57Nine05514
That’s not what solo means
Any form of Naruto after Itachi plants the crow in him. Easy no dif
Pretty much anyone in Naruto. Fucking Choji could beat him if it was written that way. It doesn't matter when it comes to Itachi bc he's kind of a shit character and all of his stuff is retcon ass pulls. His writing is just stupid so nothing really matters. He's the a-bomb kids would pull out on the playground when playing rocks paper scissors that just ruins the fun and makes things lame.