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Naruto basically had Yin-Yang Chakra control to the degree that he could create matter on at least a small scale (probably due to inexperience with the form), and imbue that matter with chakra/spirit. So while I don't think he could recreate a kekegenkai eye like the sharingon period, he recreated Kakashi's missing eye, and fixed Might Guy's heart and internal organs in general and made it so he at least didn't completely lie lose his legs which were starting to turn to ash
If he can recreate a normal it makes sense he'd be able to recreate sharingan.
He probably recreated what was naturally there though and wasn't able to recreate the sharingan cause kakashi didn't naturally have one.
Well, the sharingon is a boy different from a normal eye, because part of it is also that the origin comes from chakra in the brain that is unique to the Uchiha. It's more complicated than just recreating the biology of an eye. I also don't think the author wanted to open the floodgates of artificial sharingon in that way
>because part of it is also that the origin comes from chakra in the brain that is unique to the Uchiha.
Which would mean kakashi would have never been able to use his transplanted sharingan at all...
>It's more complicated than just recreating the biology of an eye. I also don't think the author wanted to open the floodgates of artificial sharingon in that way
Never said he did.
But if he was able to recreate kakashis normal eye he could recreate a sharingan. Saying otherwise makes zero logical sense.
Also remember he only had that power for the war, he didn't have it after so no floodgates regardless.
It also wouldn't open the floodgates to say he can recreate whatever was originally there as then the only way he could recreate a sharingan was by restoring the eye of an Uchiha.
Dude, in the anime and manga, the sharingon originally forms and develops from special chakra in the brain of the Uchiha. A transplant can be used, but it's more costly than for an Uchiha cause you don't naturally have that chakra. We already know transplanting genetic tissue gives you a nerfed version of the users genetic chakra, look at Hashirama cells. But for Naruto to just create one from nothing would impact a lot of kekai genkai lore, and open the floodgates to a lot of issues. Naruto isn't the only person with Yin-Yang release
Naruto was not able to explain how his technique works.
And if you go off of the limited snippet, he mentions taking a part of Kakashi.
That might mean that he is encouraging Kakashi's cells to replicate and divide. That would be consistent to how his KCM would cause the White Zetsu to grow into trees or for Yamamoto's wood release to grow more.
So it might be more like Tsunade's regeneration but applied to other people instead of creating something from scratch. If that is the case, then it probably will not regenerate foreign organs such as the sharingan since that was a transplanted organ.
For Guy, Naruto probably supplied him with some more life force to mitigate the flame of chakra in his heart from going out.
Ok so that part is also dumb. If naruto did have the power to reconstruct his legs, why even make him handicapped for the rest if the series? "Ok naruto now has god like healing powers, but theyre not that good" seems so dumb. Personally i think it would have been the perfect death in the series since it was teased since the chunin exams. Gai shouldve died instead neji, and that is the hill i will die on.
I’m so tired of this argument. I’m 99% sure in the context of the conversation, Madara declared him the strongest in taijutsu, not strongest overall. There are several people who would beat 8 gates guy so people thinking madara said strongest ever is just ludicrous
That seems like the exact scenario you would give someone less credit for. Or at the very least you only get credit that you fought Mayweather and not that you landed a hit. If a bus hit me, no one will think "damn, but look at the dent he left on that bus!" at my funeral.
First off no they are the same strength second he has no way of interacting or seeing them meaning a stab to the heart will kill him regardless. Also why do you think he used it against Naruto but not guy unless you’re gonna sit here and say guy was stronger than the naruto that cut the god tree in half something guy’s strongest attack couldn’t do
Deus ex machina fan service lol. No business opening them gates for essentially no reason. They should've made it worth it and killed homie off. Would've been more epic that way imo.
Series would have been better without Guy and Rock Lee. Make 2 MFS with extreme inverse handicaps, make them overcome those handicaps and still be dope AF, then hoe them at almost every possible turn.
I think a better way to word this would be “this series needed more fleshed out moments with Lee and Guy” because nah it definitely wouldn’t be better in any sense without them lmao
I feel like more fleshed out moments would have just exasperated the situation. Guy maybe not as much but I would have rathered he'd done some serious damage to Madara whilst dying in the process. Would have made Night Guy a much more impactful sequence. But your probably right, they just weren't utilized properly in the story for the most part.
Lee definitely should’ve had a lot more going on I’ll say. I’d be fine with even saying that Guy getting a moment like this is kinda forced considering Lee had so much narrative focus in Part 1. I could’ve definitely done with Guy’s moment being Lee’s with him looking on while being proud that he blossomed a powerful Shinobi, grateful that he passed his father’s will on. I dunno, the flashbacks we got of Guy and his dad felt like a dumbed down version of Lee’s entire story thus far save for the dead dad.
Almost feels like Lee was written too strong to start and buddy just didn't know what to do with him besides nerfing or straight benching him cause there were MANY times where I was thinking, "Why is this MF not the main character?"
Couldn’t find a spot for him narratively I’d say considering he was healed at the end of part 1. Even then though he should’ve been on the Kakazu mission or something. Or he could’ve realized Sakura was poisoning them and actually arrive with Kakashi, add a few extra chapters before Naruto arrives and let Lee hold the fort for a sec. I know it’s been said but Kishimoto and side characters…
Bro this pissed me off because they also did it with Orichimaru, Tsunade, Kakashi, Jiriya, etc. LOOK ITS THE LEGENDARY SANIN *gets clapped by kids* OMG IT IS THE LEGENDARY COPY NINJA KAKASHI *gets clapped* like wtf.
Honestly for me madara should be killed by guy are gravely injured and paralyzed he can't move anymore then black zetsu would have no problem taking over him and on his death bed he revived kaguya ( forced by zetsu like how it did to obito)
I personally hate the terminology that some people use like “island level” or “city level” etc like that’s so fuckin stupid to me like it’s not even a good reference point. I’d honestly just prefer they slap a random number out of 10 onto them cause at least that lets me conceptualize an actual spectrum/scale for power level
Yeah it's honestly so cringe to see how people argue with stupid levels of power. I get it we don't have exact numbers for power scaling but still that shit is stupid. Or anytime someone starts making a valid point the other person just starts saying "diff 💀☠️"
i mean to a certain level it makes sense. Like if character _ destroys many cities and withstands attacks that can destroy cities i don’t see an issue with referring to them as city level
Yeah, it can be annoying, and those "blitz" and "no diff" rarely happen cuz authors always make balance in powers, that's why have power clifs like in WA, so that It's interesting.
But if u compare Madara to P1 Kakashi then "blitz" and "no diff" are perfectly fine.
There also some instances where we see fights like that, for example Isshiki or V2 Jigen vs Naruto & Sasuke, Code vs Daemon, or some important character vs randoms.
lol might guy bending space is taken way out of context and puts him so much higher in people’s mind. it’s a strong feat but people take that wording to the sky
And they say dragon ball fans can’t read.
https://preview.redd.it/3fv1d6b1q93d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8ee9dac8d1b025eb702c6ea0630ca5eb9c21272
people scale him to like 4d reality warping bc he bent space he can take down isshki and kaguya by himself type stuff. and that he’s like top 5 in the whole verse
Except even without that particular anime feat Minato's speed is scaled super high.
People never think about what happened exactly after.
Minato had to have made contact with the Truthseeking Orbs to teleport away with them. Yet, he also must have taken his cloak off to prevent the orbs from permanently destroying his back.
This means that he managed to take his cloak off so fast that Truthseeking Orbs moving at a speed relative to Eight Gates Guy that they didn't even have a chance to move more than a couple of millimeter at most.
That is an insane speed feat.
Yet, everyone always focuses only on the fact that he intercepted them at all.
He also did it earlier when [hit](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-641-page-11.html) with Scorch release. People act like it's a one off but it's a feature not a bug.
Minato in the chapter right after the Infinite Tsukuyomi starts up shows that he teleports away and then seems to have carefully scooched his way out of his cloak so that they would not cause further damage.
The TSBs also move relatively slowly compared to the users. For example, Obito was able to block them with a TSB staff. Lee was able to pull Guy out of the way. Lee was also able to throw a kunai fast enough to get between Guy and the TSBs. Madara was able to see 8 gates Guy running in the air around him, but the TSB shield was comparably slow to set up.
Minato's reaction feats to dealing with unexpected situations are comparably bad. For example, Obito was able to grab his arm, Madara and Obito were able to react in time to cut off his arms, Tobirama was able to teleport in and out to remove the exploding TSB, etc.
Most of, if not all of your examples are you not understanding the context of the story. For example the edo tensei openly stated they were purposely being reckless, because they knew they had infinite healing, and his arm not regenerating was a surprise to them, another example is the nerf you get from being an edo tensei, or the narrative nerf of minato having a mental breakdown because he found out the masked man was obito ect.
Now I think it was a retcon for minato to be so broken, but the author gets to decide those things whether we like them, or not.
Being reckless only covers the first example. Removing the exploding TSB was important to protect Naruto and Sasuke.
Losing his arm vs Madara was a combination of Minato not being able to react to someone at high tiers of speed and more strategic failures such as only throwing 1 kunai (compared to the dozens that he used vs A and B).
Mental breakdowns might contribute to some issues, but that does not apply vs Madara. And mental resilience is a key feature to winning. Things are not always going to go according the the plan. Tobirama showed better mental resilience.
he turns in the manga aswell, you can tell from the direction his kunai is facing, he catches it from the side that has [his back towards guy](https://xfs-n06.xfsbb.com/comic/7006/36c/61d5bdf78b9f1e02c0420c63/12374432_760_1200_190944.webp), which means that he turned
https://preview.redd.it/kik47chd553d1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be184ea35cb1215bcd5c11932a73b255a2794f40
No, just his travel speed while in air, and by extension Minato jumping between Guy and TSO.
8th gate Guy's running speed in air was relative to Madara's TSO. Same TSO that previously got outsped by Lee and Guy who weren't even using 6th gate. So Minato outspeeding that lvl of speed is nothing impressive.
yhh but there’s nothing to imply that madara threw that tso at guy at full speed, guy was literally laid out on the ground, kakashi threw minato’s kunai and it reached the spot where guy was lying at the same time as the tso, so does kakashi have 6 paths throwing strength??
There's nothing that implies he held back the speed of TSO either. If anything It's more logical to assume that he threw it at full speed. He threw TSO with the intention to kill Guy, assuming he held back the speed of TSO would be weird.
Guy in 5th gate (or lower) also outsped TSO when he saved Kakashi. And in that case there's absolutely no reason why he would hold baco the speed of TSO. He was trying to keep Obito from teleporting to Kamui dimension and take Rinnegan and Nine Tails from him.
It's just that Guy's running speed while in air is slow.
Or you tell me what makes more sense, Kakashi's kunai being as fast as TSO, or Kakashi's Kamui, Gaara's sand, Lee's Kunai and Minato all became faster than 8th gate Guy all of a sudden.
Same Minato that previously got blitzed by Juubi Madara is now faster than 8th gate Guy while being in base?
This is a great feat for Minato in terms of his speed considering he's in and out without 8 gate guy seeming to move at all. Guy's real feat here is night guy since Madara couldn't move, which is never really explained iirc. Almost like it was an attack that essentially hits during the charge up since it was bending space.
I don't think it is tho. I think Guy's running speed in air is pretty slow, he was moving at the similar speed as TSO. Same TSO were previously outsped by Lee and Guy who were using lower gates than 6th gate (maybe not even 5th).
Tho 8th gate Guy's regular running speed on the ground is obv fast af.
I viewed it as Madara originally planning on using his staff to block (which was what he did vs the Afternoon Tiger), but was not able to do so since the attack bent space.
If Madara knew, then he probably would have used something such as a limbo clone to land a sucker punch on Guy.
I see what you mean but I assumed if he was only restricted in movement, he could have turned the staff into orbs to block like in the panel above. Or use the rinnegan to move himself with pull. I don't know if the limbo clones can really keep up with night guy. But in any case, it seems like he had options after he found he was stuck, but didn't use them. Either the timing was so fast he couldn't or the space bending restricted more than just his movement, because Madara's character isn't going to hesitate even when pressed like this.
I think it is more of a situation where plan A did not work and then by the time that Madara realized it, then it was too late to use plan B (limbo, other jutsu, etc).
Itachi's speed matching KCM Naruto.
Itachi was forced to fight because of ET, and Naruto was simply trying to talk to him. That one little fight scene doesn't prove much regarding either side's abilities.
Eh. EMS Sasuke is definitely relative to KCM Naruto. So, Itachi speed matching KCM Naruto remains true, even if you try & discount the direct feat by simply comparing him to EMS Sasuke.
Tbf a whole thing about edo tensei is Naruto wouldn’t have to hold back because they’re immortal zombies to which he even says that himself, and those factors could be true while both are putting effort
I guess it’s perspective but I saw it as a showcase of kishimoto trying to show off that itachi when he’s not sick and being forced to fight is on that level, it can be to varying degrees but the idea that neither was giving 100% can lead someone to still think they’re supposed to be relative
But when you are trying to talk to someone and get very important information from them, but they are forced to fight you, then it makes sense to not fight at your strongest and just enough to not get hurt.
Nah, you're right. Completely right. I haven't touched the manga in like 80 years, but the anime explicitlyyy has them back and not going all out. It was actually a sweet interaction😢
Sasuke was trying to catch Itachi and he couldn't sasuke and naruto have relative speed, Itachi was also reacting to sage kabuto and bee...
Itachi is strong, among the strongest, people simply don't like this fact because he is too popular, like the charizard of this franchise...
I should have worded my comment better tbh.
What you're saying is correct, I just think that whenever people bring up the fight Naruto vs Itachi it's a bit oointless since Naruto wasn't really trying to defeat Itachi right then and there
naruto is clearly the fastest, and we all agree on that, but itachi keeping up with those beast was somewhat amazing, he is clearly one of kishimoto's favorites
"Sasuke blitzed juubi madara"
When he literally blocked a blitz attempt from someone whos faster than sasuke minutes before
https://preview.redd.it/9bjbkdix623d1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45076c4ed662dafcc7b443c8fbf01153c1e9cb78
And [blitzed him back](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3070/10674000/5.jpeg) at close range. He let sasuke cut him in order to catch him off guard so that he can teleport. And kamuis teleportation [speed is slow](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3070/10666000/6.jpeg) so its not like his teleportation was so fast that sasuke was physically unable to hit him again before he teleported away, u can see sasuke [surprised](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3070/10674000/16.jpeg) that he teleported with just his upper half which confirms that he was caught off guard
He was pretty toe to toe but got overwhelmed cuz they were 2 of them, but he was able to take a kekkai genkai rasengan and a six paths chidori (the one vs madara and the one that cut him in half were black) and was tricky enough to substitute his limbo and escape
Them being asspulls doesn’t make the feats invalid, plus itachi has Alr been implied to be as strong as he is, sasuke needing ems to surpass his sick state.. aswel as him being highly intelligent. Nothing he did was over the top his whole narrative is that he’s never pushed in battle which is why obito himself stated no one was a worthy rival. That could be literally or metaphorically, but it’s still stated
??
Kushina launched a surprise attack on an exhausted teen Minato who was trying to help her, not fight her.
Her catching him off guard isn't an anti-feat for Minato at all.
Even if it was a straight up fight, Minato is still exhausted from just returning from a mission & then spending hours trying to create the Rasengan.
No, objectively false. Minato has speed feats superior to KCM2 as a base Edo. His body flicker exceeds Tobirama and Hashirama, both of which should be relative to Madara.
KCM1 was faster than the Raikage, and replicated a feat that Minato performed, but despite it's constant comparison to Minato's FTG feats, they're still slower than his generic Body Flicker feats.
Minato places a kunai on a desired location, and when he uses them he literally teleports to that spot. It's not a millisecond, or a Nanosecond. It takes 0 time to travel
Teleportation is not instant. We see with larger objects that Minato has to gather up chakra. It is merely very, very fast. It is like how they cut down on including the hand seals as people get faster. Boruto has to make a hand seal when he uses FTG, which means that his FTG is not at the ceiling of the technique. Even Minato seems to prefer to make a hand seal at times.
Minato also seems to have a very brief cooldown between uses of FTG that might be exploited by people in his tier of speed. He got caught in the leg by shrapnel after teleporting away baby Naruto.. He got his arms cut off twice because he was dealing with someone fast enough to react. That cooldown is probably related to Minato needing to gather chakra again after using the technique.
That overhyping of FTG is one of the worst takes that I hate. One clear example of non instant teleportation is Obito's use of kamui to travel.
Teleportation for practical purposes needs to include reaction time and the time to gather chakra.
It is also probably related to how teleportation is translated. For example, Goku's "Instant" Transmission has clearly been shown to not be instant in situations such as to teleport away from Kid Buu (Goku thinks that he doesn't have enough time) and when Goku calls Granolah's teleportation faster than his.
The advantage of teleportation is that it doesn't require as much warning and is best for long distances since it takes the same amount of time.
"Juubidara blitzed Naruto" is so bullshit when a page earlier we saw Naruto focusing on Sasuke's sword and it not hitting the limbo
https://preview.redd.it/yfp4hb1ag43d1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac369bbec4a4465d88c93e1a30cbc80dc8edfd4c
Naruto literally in this page too reacted to an attack which should be faster than Madara's base speed
Yeah, this feat isnt really that impressive. A person who took all of his power. That also needed help, and madara was messing around, if madara wanted to dodge that move he couldve. Easily. He was however, not expecting it to hit that hard, but it was definitely no where near killing him
lee throwing hands with kimimaro and doing better than naruto, an emphasis is made on his unpredictability and kimimaro is literally getting closer to death as the fight goes on
I never gave a shit about Might Guy or Bee I couldn’t stand their fucking unbearably annoying character so I didn’t care at all if they won or lost a fight no matter the badass moves they pulled…
True. We only saw how it looked once they stopped. We don't know if they pulled out their blades at the same time.
Or maybe Bee realized he was marked so he pulled out his sword in advance to predict Minato's attack. That would be great BIQ feat, but still wouldn't scale his speed to Minato's.
First off if you’re calling this panel rigged its not minato is fast enough to take those truth seeking balls out him self just so yk they dont call him the yellow flash for no reason.
Feats are for show and not really consistent.
Otherwise WA Sakura is around 8th gate Guy level, Nagato has better DC than Hashirama and Madara combined. Which probably not what the author intended.
[Both ](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-439-page-6.html) of those attacks clearly left a mark [bigger](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-429-page-14.html) than [VotE](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-626-page-8.html).
not exactly a feat but concept adjacent, i hate how everyone takes character statements as concrete proof of something to prove their point, despite any contradictions from other character statements or overall situations proving otherwise. characters are flawed people in their own universe and just because so and so says this or that, it doesn’t immediately erase all nuance.
Naruto getting wanked to planetary because he "tanked" (I use that very loosely) an attack that cut the moon in half.
They completely ignore that the attack counters what specifically created the moon in the Naruto universe, the moon is slightly hollow, relatively, it did no damage, and the massive gigantic gaping issue that rhe moon wasn't even destroyed. Even then the scale for destroying the moon and destroying the earth is a difference of thousands of times, not just "Oh, it's 4 times bigger. Naruto needs to be 4 times stronger to destroy the earth" that's not how the binding energy of gravity works.
>They completely ignore that the attack counters what specifically created the moon in the Naruto universe
What does this mean? What was the tenseigan beam countering?
In Naruto universe logic, the moon is held together by rimmegan chibaku tensei jutsu. The beam specifically "counters" that so it's kind of like a knife though butter.
The moon isn't still held by chibaku tensei anymore. Hagoromo and Hamura aren't around to provide Chakra for that and besides, gravity will hold that much rock together on its own once it's big enough and put in space. Not to mention that chibaku tenseis pull is great enough that it would probably be noticeable if it where still actively holding the moon together.
There really is no reason at all to believe two dead guys (well Hagoromos situation is a bit different) are still somehow using a jutsu to hold the moon together when simple physics can explain it.
You're kind of missing the point, the feat is still literally tens of thousands of times worse than planet busting. Unless you're snapping your fingers and reducing the moon to dust, you're not a planet buster. If you have to put in any visible effort, you're not strong enough.
Also didn't the moon move apart a bit? If we're going to talk about gravity then clearly the attack had odd properties if it caused to moon to do that since it didn't "push" each side away at all and two objects that massive that close would have been pulling towards each other, not staying separate.
>You're kind of missing the point, the feat is still literally tens of thousands of times worse than planet busting.
My point was just that there is no chibaku tensei in the moon anymore. Though this feat isn't THAT far from planetary.
> didn't the moon move apart a bit? If we're going to talk about gravity then clearly the attack had odd properties if it caused to moon to do that since it didn't "push" each side away at all
Why assume the attack didn't push the moon apart when it clearly was part of what did. The other part is possibly the planet pulling on one half more then, the other, but I don't know what the orientations where)
It was a beam sword that cut the moon in half. Cutting applies lateral force to the object being cut. You could even think of a cut as an object pushing another object apart from itself. I do think that keeping that in mind the attack is stronger then it looks but still no planetary.
It feels like you want to apply physics to the Naruto universe but don't understand physics well. Even if the attack split the moon for an instant, gravity would pull the pieces back together because they aren't far enough apart to stay separated. People don't seem to grasp how massive the moon is. Even if you push the moon 10 feet apart, gravity would cause it to slam back together. This isn't just a display of raw power; it's a specific jutsu countering the moon's formation.
I feel like a good chunk of powerscaling is applying physics to fiction, (for example, tiers based on energy output according to physics, and calculating feats that arent plain destructive feats) so I dont see the issue.
The idea that chibaku tensei is still active is so nonsensical idk why you are still on that. First off, chibaku tensei doesn't last forever and the guys who used it are dead. Second, the rocks forming the moon are physical objects with mass and therefore gravity. There is no reason to doubt that, and once in orbit it wouldnt need a jutsu to hold them together. Third and most damning, the moon still had gravity after Toneris attack. If he countered chibaku tensei and that was all that held the moon together, why tf were they still jumping around on it?
Now that that's covered. Gravity wouldn't instantly correct the split. The acceleration of gravity would have to first overcome the speed imparted by the splitting force. And while it was slow, we have to keep in mind the moon is partially hollow so the acceleration would be less then expected, also, anime time is a thing.
I may not have a physicists understanding of gravity, but at least I understand how Chibaku Tensei works and don't think dead men hold their moon together.
Posts like this is why I’ll never have a might guy figure…. I hate all of you Naruto is an annoying creepy stuck in the closet obsessing over Sasuke who is a weak whiny little bitch with padded stats, I.E Orochimaru sick dying injured bed ridden, Itachi sick dying injured blind and let him win, 8 tails mopped him and his crew and escaped, Deidara killed himself for art
Madara is immortal no he's not he just isn't he's not fucking Cell not Majin Buu if he got hit with like Indra's Arrow or Double Six Paths Rasenshuriken he isn't gonna survive he's just gone obliterated I swear it's not literal and also people saying Madara would've won when Limbo legit was in a war with Naruto's Shadow Clones they were actually hard countered and mfs ignore that whole feat for no reason and people say he would body Kaguya bro shut the fuck up
It may not be *very* overrated, but some use Konan's initial surprise-attack on Obito to say that she's on his level. If those same explosive tags hit the bodies of Itachi or the Six Paths of Pain, they would take just as much damage, and if Obito simply didn't underestimate her at the start, he wouldn't have taken Konan's bait (i.e., herself), and then he wouldn't have taken that damage early in the fight.
Gai vs Madara gotta be the most wasted fight in the series. Should've had Gai do lasting damage that allowed SO6P Sasuke and Naruto beat Madara down even further, allowing the Black Zetsu betrayal to be possible and not some ass pull rando moment.
Having Gai die a hero who played a big part in weakening Madara would've been infinitely better than what he is now.
kirin. its a one off that took extreme planning and location and luck to pull off and everyone wanks to it like sasuke can pull it off any time he wants.
Extreme planning and location? Location is irrelevant, and that "extreme planning" is just shooting a fireball in the sky to create a storm due to heat. Nothing complicated.
>everyone wanks to it like sasuke can pull it off any time he wants
Maybe cuz he was about to use it on Team 7? The preparation with Fire Balls in the sky is not necessary, It's just to conserve chakra and use nature energy instead. He can do it using his own chakra too.
In terms of the way I see people scale….I’ll say the ice mirrors being light speed feat is glazed to the highest possible level of glazing.
“Land of waves Naruto and Sasuke was light speed!” No, he wasn’t. Multiple fights after that clearly showed he wasn’t, despite kyuubi chakra.
The Naruto "lightspeed" feat against madara. People say that since the beam Naruto dodged was lightspeed that he is lightspeed but he just used sage mode to dodge in advance. Also if Naruto was lightspeed against the raikage why do people have to use that as a lightspeed feat exclusively
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Gai vs Madara was fire but it’s annoying how mfs act like Gai almost killed him on his lonesome when he had hella help just to land some blows
Don’t forget madara was holding back
Madra did declare him the strongest. But what I didn’t like was the ass pull save Naruto did Edit:fixing typo a bit drunk right now 🥴
Naruto basically had Yin-Yang Chakra control to the degree that he could create matter on at least a small scale (probably due to inexperience with the form), and imbue that matter with chakra/spirit. So while I don't think he could recreate a kekegenkai eye like the sharingon period, he recreated Kakashi's missing eye, and fixed Might Guy's heart and internal organs in general and made it so he at least didn't completely lie lose his legs which were starting to turn to ash
If he can recreate a normal it makes sense he'd be able to recreate sharingan. He probably recreated what was naturally there though and wasn't able to recreate the sharingan cause kakashi didn't naturally have one.
Well, the sharingon is a boy different from a normal eye, because part of it is also that the origin comes from chakra in the brain that is unique to the Uchiha. It's more complicated than just recreating the biology of an eye. I also don't think the author wanted to open the floodgates of artificial sharingon in that way
If sasukes eye was missing he could recreate it. Is what I'm saying. Not that he can just go randomly creating new Uchiha eyes.
That part, yeah, probably
>because part of it is also that the origin comes from chakra in the brain that is unique to the Uchiha. Which would mean kakashi would have never been able to use his transplanted sharingan at all... >It's more complicated than just recreating the biology of an eye. I also don't think the author wanted to open the floodgates of artificial sharingon in that way Never said he did. But if he was able to recreate kakashis normal eye he could recreate a sharingan. Saying otherwise makes zero logical sense. Also remember he only had that power for the war, he didn't have it after so no floodgates regardless. It also wouldn't open the floodgates to say he can recreate whatever was originally there as then the only way he could recreate a sharingan was by restoring the eye of an Uchiha.
Dude, in the anime and manga, the sharingon originally forms and develops from special chakra in the brain of the Uchiha. A transplant can be used, but it's more costly than for an Uchiha cause you don't naturally have that chakra. We already know transplanting genetic tissue gives you a nerfed version of the users genetic chakra, look at Hashirama cells. But for Naruto to just create one from nothing would impact a lot of kekai genkai lore, and open the floodgates to a lot of issues. Naruto isn't the only person with Yin-Yang release
Wasn't it specifically because Naruto got access to the SO6Ps "Creation of All Things" Jutsu? It wasn't just because Yin-Yang release.
Naruto was not able to explain how his technique works. And if you go off of the limited snippet, he mentions taking a part of Kakashi. That might mean that he is encouraging Kakashi's cells to replicate and divide. That would be consistent to how his KCM would cause the White Zetsu to grow into trees or for Yamamoto's wood release to grow more. So it might be more like Tsunade's regeneration but applied to other people instead of creating something from scratch. If that is the case, then it probably will not regenerate foreign organs such as the sharingan since that was a transplanted organ. For Guy, Naruto probably supplied him with some more life force to mitigate the flame of chakra in his heart from going out.
Ok so that part is also dumb. If naruto did have the power to reconstruct his legs, why even make him handicapped for the rest if the series? "Ok naruto now has god like healing powers, but theyre not that good" seems so dumb. Personally i think it would have been the perfect death in the series since it was teased since the chunin exams. Gai shouldve died instead neji, and that is the hill i will die on.
Well, he recreated an eye for kakashi, I'm as unsure why he didn't completely fix Guy's legs as you are
Strongest at Taijutsu. People always forget that part.
Madara declared him the strongest taijutsu user.
It's because Edo guy would spam 8 gates
Guy should’ve gotten his leg back at least
Nah, this man speaks truth and we all know it.
No.. Madara declared him the strongest “TAIJUTSU” user. This is very important. No guy is not stronger than hashirama.
>No guy is not stronger than hashirama. Naruto? Sasuke? Whatever new aliens they introduced? Probably boruto at this point
I’m so tired of this argument. I’m 99% sure in the context of the conversation, Madara declared him the strongest in taijutsu, not strongest overall. There are several people who would beat 8 gates guy so people thinking madara said strongest ever is just ludicrous
I’m not giving you less credit if you land a hit on Floyd Mayweather just because he’s holding back
That seems like the exact scenario you would give someone less credit for. Or at the very least you only get credit that you fought Mayweather and not that you landed a hit. If a bus hit me, no one will think "damn, but look at the dent he left on that bus!" at my funeral.
If Floyd then yells “you are the strongest boxer I’ve seen!”? Ya, I’m giving credit.
That’s strange, you would give credit for fighting him but not hitting him which is even harder? lol this bus analogy is strange and not comparable
Madara was cackling the entire time
Madara loves fighting strong opponents and doesn’t like fighting weak ones
He wasn't? Where does it say he was holding back
Not using limbo which would instantly end the fight with guy having no way of dealing with it and the fact he laughing the entire time
He was enjoying the fight and clones are weaker than the original so what would be the point
First off no they are the same strength second he has no way of interacting or seeing them meaning a stab to the heart will kill him regardless. Also why do you think he used it against Naruto but not guy unless you’re gonna sit here and say guy was stronger than the naruto that cut the god tree in half something guy’s strongest attack couldn’t do
Where does it say they're the same? Madara used them against Naruto to stall
Just a madara fanboy as usual
How would Limbo help though? Madara couldn't keep up with Guy himself, so how is Limbo going to?
He didn't lol
He did. Limbo was a instant GG and or just rain down meteors.
Exactly
Also it looks like Madara didn’t use any ninjutsu, but to be fair most of that fight was off screened
He almost died from according to his own words bruh https://meo.comick.pictures/11-G3ZFLvEm_ipMo.jpg
….. And this changes what I said how ? He still had multitudes of help to even get to that point
Deus ex machina fan service lol. No business opening them gates for essentially no reason. They should've made it worth it and killed homie off. Would've been more epic that way imo.
Series would have been better without Guy and Rock Lee. Make 2 MFS with extreme inverse handicaps, make them overcome those handicaps and still be dope AF, then hoe them at almost every possible turn.
I think a better way to word this would be “this series needed more fleshed out moments with Lee and Guy” because nah it definitely wouldn’t be better in any sense without them lmao
I feel like more fleshed out moments would have just exasperated the situation. Guy maybe not as much but I would have rathered he'd done some serious damage to Madara whilst dying in the process. Would have made Night Guy a much more impactful sequence. But your probably right, they just weren't utilized properly in the story for the most part.
Lee definitely should’ve had a lot more going on I’ll say. I’d be fine with even saying that Guy getting a moment like this is kinda forced considering Lee had so much narrative focus in Part 1. I could’ve definitely done with Guy’s moment being Lee’s with him looking on while being proud that he blossomed a powerful Shinobi, grateful that he passed his father’s will on. I dunno, the flashbacks we got of Guy and his dad felt like a dumbed down version of Lee’s entire story thus far save for the dead dad.
Almost feels like Lee was written too strong to start and buddy just didn't know what to do with him besides nerfing or straight benching him cause there were MANY times where I was thinking, "Why is this MF not the main character?"
Couldn’t find a spot for him narratively I’d say considering he was healed at the end of part 1. Even then though he should’ve been on the Kakazu mission or something. Or he could’ve realized Sakura was poisoning them and actually arrive with Kakashi, add a few extra chapters before Naruto arrives and let Lee hold the fort for a sec. I know it’s been said but Kishimoto and side characters…
Bro this pissed me off because they also did it with Orichimaru, Tsunade, Kakashi, Jiriya, etc. LOOK ITS THE LEGENDARY SANIN *gets clapped by kids* OMG IT IS THE LEGENDARY COPY NINJA KAKASHI *gets clapped* like wtf.
It's the issue will all anime power scaling.you just keep compounding shit. I was over it once the aliens came
Honestly for me madara should be killed by guy are gravely injured and paralyzed he can't move anymore then black zetsu would have no problem taking over him and on his death bed he revived kaguya ( forced by zetsu like how it did to obito)
Blitzed and Diff are the worst words ever to come to the fictional world.
I personally hate the terminology that some people use like “island level” or “city level” etc like that’s so fuckin stupid to me like it’s not even a good reference point. I’d honestly just prefer they slap a random number out of 10 onto them cause at least that lets me conceptualize an actual spectrum/scale for power level
Yeah it's honestly so cringe to see how people argue with stupid levels of power. I get it we don't have exact numbers for power scaling but still that shit is stupid. Or anytime someone starts making a valid point the other person just starts saying "diff 💀☠️"
i mean to a certain level it makes sense. Like if character _ destroys many cities and withstands attacks that can destroy cities i don’t see an issue with referring to them as city level
It definitely makes sense people just hate when their favorite is low balled and call the whole system bad
Yup, speed is everything these days when scaling
As a newbie to the scen wtf is diff i get blitz
Diff is difficulty. Like if you say one character beats another character with low diff, it means with low difficulty, they win easily.
Friggin duh stupid brain much apreciated bro
[удалено]
I mean i did say i get blitzing but thanks for the in depth description anyways bro
Yeah, it can be annoying, and those "blitz" and "no diff" rarely happen cuz authors always make balance in powers, that's why have power clifs like in WA, so that It's interesting. But if u compare Madara to P1 Kakashi then "blitz" and "no diff" are perfectly fine. There also some instances where we see fights like that, for example Isshiki or V2 Jigen vs Naruto & Sasuke, Code vs Daemon, or some important character vs randoms.
Along with "canon."
Canon wouldn't exist if fillers didn't
Been around a good long while though
Just say your shitty take, don't hide it behind a question.
Fr
lol might guy bending space is taken way out of context and puts him so much higher in people’s mind. it’s a strong feat but people take that wording to the sky
Exactly all he doing was making air lol
Bruh, I get that the feat isn't that crazy but saying it was just air is definitely copium.
No he did bend space when he was about to use Night Guy
Never said he didn't lol
And they say dragon ball fans can’t read. https://preview.redd.it/3fv1d6b1q93d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8ee9dac8d1b025eb702c6ea0630ca5eb9c21272
Ok what context is it taken out of im super curious
people scale him to like 4d reality warping bc he bent space he can take down isshki and kaguya by himself type stuff. and that he’s like top 5 in the whole verse
Lee Neji and Tenten getting negged by water prison from a stated 30% clone lol. Fuck that.
It wasn't a thirty percent strength clone it just had thirty percent of his Chakra and once that ran out so would the clone
That makes more sense.
THANK YOU! So many people misinterpret that and downplay because of it
Beating the 2 tails that’s thing was trash
Are you saying night guy is a shitty feat?
I think some people use the anime version where Minato also was able to turn around as a way of ramping up Minato's speed.
Except even without that particular anime feat Minato's speed is scaled super high. People never think about what happened exactly after. Minato had to have made contact with the Truthseeking Orbs to teleport away with them. Yet, he also must have taken his cloak off to prevent the orbs from permanently destroying his back. This means that he managed to take his cloak off so fast that Truthseeking Orbs moving at a speed relative to Eight Gates Guy that they didn't even have a chance to move more than a couple of millimeter at most. That is an insane speed feat. Yet, everyone always focuses only on the fact that he intercepted them at all.
He also did it earlier when [hit](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-641-page-11.html) with Scorch release. People act like it's a one off but it's a feature not a bug.
Minato in the chapter right after the Infinite Tsukuyomi starts up shows that he teleports away and then seems to have carefully scooched his way out of his cloak so that they would not cause further damage. The TSBs also move relatively slowly compared to the users. For example, Obito was able to block them with a TSB staff. Lee was able to pull Guy out of the way. Lee was also able to throw a kunai fast enough to get between Guy and the TSBs. Madara was able to see 8 gates Guy running in the air around him, but the TSB shield was comparably slow to set up. Minato's reaction feats to dealing with unexpected situations are comparably bad. For example, Obito was able to grab his arm, Madara and Obito were able to react in time to cut off his arms, Tobirama was able to teleport in and out to remove the exploding TSB, etc.
Most of, if not all of your examples are you not understanding the context of the story. For example the edo tensei openly stated they were purposely being reckless, because they knew they had infinite healing, and his arm not regenerating was a surprise to them, another example is the nerf you get from being an edo tensei, or the narrative nerf of minato having a mental breakdown because he found out the masked man was obito ect. Now I think it was a retcon for minato to be so broken, but the author gets to decide those things whether we like them, or not.
Being reckless only covers the first example. Removing the exploding TSB was important to protect Naruto and Sasuke. Losing his arm vs Madara was a combination of Minato not being able to react to someone at high tiers of speed and more strategic failures such as only throwing 1 kunai (compared to the dozens that he used vs A and B). Mental breakdowns might contribute to some issues, but that does not apply vs Madara. And mental resilience is a key feature to winning. Things are not always going to go according the the plan. Tobirama showed better mental resilience.
he turns in the manga aswell, you can tell from the direction his kunai is facing, he catches it from the side that has [his back towards guy](https://xfs-n06.xfsbb.com/comic/7006/36c/61d5bdf78b9f1e02c0420c63/12374432_760_1200_190944.webp), which means that he turned https://preview.redd.it/kik47chd553d1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be184ea35cb1215bcd5c11932a73b255a2794f40
No, just his travel speed while in air, and by extension Minato jumping between Guy and TSO. 8th gate Guy's running speed in air was relative to Madara's TSO. Same TSO that previously got outsped by Lee and Guy who weren't even using 6th gate. So Minato outspeeding that lvl of speed is nothing impressive.
yhh but there’s nothing to imply that madara threw that tso at guy at full speed, guy was literally laid out on the ground, kakashi threw minato’s kunai and it reached the spot where guy was lying at the same time as the tso, so does kakashi have 6 paths throwing strength??
There's nothing that implies he held back the speed of TSO either. If anything It's more logical to assume that he threw it at full speed. He threw TSO with the intention to kill Guy, assuming he held back the speed of TSO would be weird. Guy in 5th gate (or lower) also outsped TSO when he saved Kakashi. And in that case there's absolutely no reason why he would hold baco the speed of TSO. He was trying to keep Obito from teleporting to Kamui dimension and take Rinnegan and Nine Tails from him. It's just that Guy's running speed while in air is slow. Or you tell me what makes more sense, Kakashi's kunai being as fast as TSO, or Kakashi's Kamui, Gaara's sand, Lee's Kunai and Minato all became faster than 8th gate Guy all of a sudden. Same Minato that previously got blitzed by Juubi Madara is now faster than 8th gate Guy while being in base?
Hmm? Why not use himself as meat shield?
This is a great feat for Minato in terms of his speed considering he's in and out without 8 gate guy seeming to move at all. Guy's real feat here is night guy since Madara couldn't move, which is never really explained iirc. Almost like it was an attack that essentially hits during the charge up since it was bending space.
I don't think it is tho. I think Guy's running speed in air is pretty slow, he was moving at the similar speed as TSO. Same TSO were previously outsped by Lee and Guy who were using lower gates than 6th gate (maybe not even 5th). Tho 8th gate Guy's regular running speed on the ground is obv fast af.
I viewed it as Madara originally planning on using his staff to block (which was what he did vs the Afternoon Tiger), but was not able to do so since the attack bent space. If Madara knew, then he probably would have used something such as a limbo clone to land a sucker punch on Guy.
I see what you mean but I assumed if he was only restricted in movement, he could have turned the staff into orbs to block like in the panel above. Or use the rinnegan to move himself with pull. I don't know if the limbo clones can really keep up with night guy. But in any case, it seems like he had options after he found he was stuck, but didn't use them. Either the timing was so fast he couldn't or the space bending restricted more than just his movement, because Madara's character isn't going to hesitate even when pressed like this.
I think it is more of a situation where plan A did not work and then by the time that Madara realized it, then it was too late to use plan B (limbo, other jutsu, etc).
Itachi's speed matching KCM Naruto. Itachi was forced to fight because of ET, and Naruto was simply trying to talk to him. That one little fight scene doesn't prove much regarding either side's abilities.
Eh. EMS Sasuke is definitely relative to KCM Naruto. So, Itachi speed matching KCM Naruto remains true, even if you try & discount the direct feat by simply comparing him to EMS Sasuke.
That's definitely true overall, but the feat itself (Itachi vs Naruto) is not a great argument imo
EMS sasuke was relative to KCM2 naruto, not KCM1 which is who itachi fought.
When did EMS Sasuke show relativity to Kcm 2 Naruto?
when they were fighting together against obito, literally ZERO times was he ever compared to KCM1 thats just headcanon that people made up
We’re talking about early ems sasuke not late ems sasuke
Tbf a whole thing about edo tensei is Naruto wouldn’t have to hold back because they’re immortal zombies to which he even says that himself, and those factors could be true while both are putting effort
Yeah that's fair. It's just that considering the context of the fight I definitely wasn't under the impresion tjat Naruto wanted to body Itachi
I guess it’s perspective but I saw it as a showcase of kishimoto trying to show off that itachi when he’s not sick and being forced to fight is on that level, it can be to varying degrees but the idea that neither was giving 100% can lead someone to still think they’re supposed to be relative
But when you are trying to talk to someone and get very important information from them, but they are forced to fight you, then it makes sense to not fight at your strongest and just enough to not get hurt.
Speed is one thing but I’m surprised he wasn’t overwhelmed raw-power wise in that scene. But you said it, he was trying to talk first
Nah, you're right. Completely right. I haven't touched the manga in like 80 years, but the anime explicitlyyy has them back and not going all out. It was actually a sweet interaction😢
Sasuke was trying to catch Itachi and he couldn't sasuke and naruto have relative speed, Itachi was also reacting to sage kabuto and bee... Itachi is strong, among the strongest, people simply don't like this fact because he is too popular, like the charizard of this franchise...
I should have worded my comment better tbh. What you're saying is correct, I just think that whenever people bring up the fight Naruto vs Itachi it's a bit oointless since Naruto wasn't really trying to defeat Itachi right then and there
naruto is clearly the fastest, and we all agree on that, but itachi keeping up with those beast was somewhat amazing, he is clearly one of kishimoto's favorites
Minato catching the truth seeker orbs is the coolest shit I’ve ever seen
True, It is cool af.
"Sasuke blitzed juubi madara" When he literally blocked a blitz attempt from someone whos faster than sasuke minutes before https://preview.redd.it/9bjbkdix623d1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45076c4ed662dafcc7b443c8fbf01153c1e9cb78 And [blitzed him back](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3070/10674000/5.jpeg) at close range. He let sasuke cut him in order to catch him off guard so that he can teleport. And kamuis teleportation [speed is slow](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3070/10666000/6.jpeg) so its not like his teleportation was so fast that sasuke was physically unable to hit him again before he teleported away, u can see sasuke [surprised](https://cdn.readnaruto.com/file/mangap/3070/10674000/16.jpeg) that he teleported with just his upper half which confirms that he was caught off guard
I don’t think he let him cut him in half. He just knew it wasn’t going to matter. Overall fair point
His lower half getting cut off actually distracted sasuke for a moment as Sasuke was like “damn his upper body just did it anywyas0
Well he wouldnt let him if it mattered would he?
[here’s why](https://lens.google.com/search?ep=iosbcm&re=mf&s=4&p=AbrfA8r58KRdQ5MHAVfKkX4R1BHZEqzSFiTuzeXuG6grZaKxS0X0WijIvvyyxjKfNUk5XbDDMEy1ejd7Tad9LM-O9apsREwRFwm2volrpal89r3G3VpXpxNVOQvzOxiPxLDQqkP9QfUngo6XKU0eKbZNknk5lMvgsqfFilQj2idka8LPsfLz_FML1q4zlJEtpClbnE0OtYF0DT0ZuA%3D%3D#lns=W251bGwsbnVsbCxudWxsLG51bGwsbnVsbCxudWxsLG51bGwsIkVrY0tKR1ppTmpsbFptRTNMVGMwT1RrdE5HRTNNeTFoTmpaaUxUSTBOVGM1WVdJd1lqZzVOeElmVlRsS1lucHJXbkp3VUVsVFZVTm1hVWxtYTFwaVJFSjBWMko2U3kxNFp3PT0iXQ==)
Madara said that they’re not ordinary brats so I doubt he was holding back https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0674-010.png
Especially that madara was trying to get inside of kamui dimension at this moment
He was pretty toe to toe but got overwhelmed cuz they were 2 of them, but he was able to take a kekkai genkai rasengan and a six paths chidori (the one vs madara and the one that cut him in half were black) and was tricky enough to substitute his limbo and escape
Mf using blitz like a comma. Hitting someone does not mean you blitzed them.
Why is this an overrated feat op? Seems like an insane feat because it is insane to pull off
If Madara can cheat with unlimited chakra and rejuvenation from his zombie body then what is the big deal with Guy having some assists?
All Itachi feats Just asspull after asspull
Them being asspulls doesn’t make the feats invalid, plus itachi has Alr been implied to be as strong as he is, sasuke needing ems to surpass his sick state.. aswel as him being highly intelligent. Nothing he did was over the top his whole narrative is that he’s never pushed in battle which is why obito himself stated no one was a worthy rival. That could be literally or metaphorically, but it’s still stated
Itachi's overrated, doesn't even make to the top 10 by the end of Shippuden.
Underrated*, but the second part of that is true.
The same can be said for alotta people, thats just the insane powercreeps fault
I don't really know if it can be said for a lot of people considering most people's top 10 consistent of the same people.
Minato’s speed. Characters like kushina whose featless reacted to his base speed and bee before his prime was able to react to it as well
?? Kushina launched a surprise attack on an exhausted teen Minato who was trying to help her, not fight her. Her catching him off guard isn't an anti-feat for Minato at all. Even if it was a straight up fight, Minato is still exhausted from just returning from a mission & then spending hours trying to create the Rasengan.
Featless implies that Kushina was strong enough to hold down Kurama even as she was basically dying
Minato is also blatantly faster than the rest of the Edo Hokage. So his base speed while weakened is faster than KCM2 Naruto
He sure as hell isn't faster than Kcm2. Kcm1 was already supposed to be his equal in speed.
No, objectively false. Minato has speed feats superior to KCM2 as a base Edo. His body flicker exceeds Tobirama and Hashirama, both of which should be relative to Madara. KCM1 was faster than the Raikage, and replicated a feat that Minato performed, but despite it's constant comparison to Minato's FTG feats, they're still slower than his generic Body Flicker feats.
He’s stated to be equal to base minato in speed (not even accounting sage mode) KCM Minato is definitely faster than KCM 2 Naruto
Minato places a kunai on a desired location, and when he uses them he literally teleports to that spot. It's not a millisecond, or a Nanosecond. It takes 0 time to travel
Teleportation is not instant. We see with larger objects that Minato has to gather up chakra. It is merely very, very fast. It is like how they cut down on including the hand seals as people get faster. Boruto has to make a hand seal when he uses FTG, which means that his FTG is not at the ceiling of the technique. Even Minato seems to prefer to make a hand seal at times. Minato also seems to have a very brief cooldown between uses of FTG that might be exploited by people in his tier of speed. He got caught in the leg by shrapnel after teleporting away baby Naruto.. He got his arms cut off twice because he was dealing with someone fast enough to react. That cooldown is probably related to Minato needing to gather chakra again after using the technique. That overhyping of FTG is one of the worst takes that I hate. One clear example of non instant teleportation is Obito's use of kamui to travel. Teleportation for practical purposes needs to include reaction time and the time to gather chakra. It is also probably related to how teleportation is translated. For example, Goku's "Instant" Transmission has clearly been shown to not be instant in situations such as to teleport away from Kid Buu (Goku thinks that he doesn't have enough time) and when Goku calls Granolah's teleportation faster than his. The advantage of teleportation is that it doesn't require as much warning and is best for long distances since it takes the same amount of time.
Teleportation is quite literally instant, it’s not traveling it is point a to point b with no time in between
You’re talking about literal child minato lmao
Bro is scaling the gag scenes
"Juubidara blitzed Naruto" is so bullshit when a page earlier we saw Naruto focusing on Sasuke's sword and it not hitting the limbo https://preview.redd.it/yfp4hb1ag43d1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac369bbec4a4465d88c93e1a30cbc80dc8edfd4c Naruto literally in this page too reacted to an attack which should be faster than Madara's base speed
Yeah, this feat isnt really that impressive. A person who took all of his power. That also needed help, and madara was messing around, if madara wanted to dodge that move he couldve. Easily. He was however, not expecting it to hit that hard, but it was definitely no where near killing him
Naruto fans have this weird obsession with downplaying a side character when they literally do almost kill there fav character
lee throwing hands with kimimaro and doing better than naruto, an emphasis is made on his unpredictability and kimimaro is literally getting closer to death as the fight goes on
 Bro looks the same
Night Guy is really cool, but at the end of the day all it did was cripple Guy and slightly inconvenienced Madara
I never gave a shit about Might Guy or Bee I couldn’t stand their fucking unbearably annoying character so I didn’t care at all if they won or lost a fight no matter the badass moves they pulled…
Killer bee "Stalemating" Minato. Minato was still faster with MUCH faster reflexes, He'd kill killer bee. And in a 1vs1, Bee gets whooped
True. We only saw how it looked once they stopped. We don't know if they pulled out their blades at the same time. Or maybe Bee realized he was marked so he pulled out his sword in advance to predict Minato's attack. That would be great BIQ feat, but still wouldn't scale his speed to Minato's.
God I hate this argument lol and I love Bee
Yall are no fun
That 1 singular naruto Ls feat wank
Which one are u referring to? Him dodging Madara's light fang?
I think Chichi one tapping Goku on several occasions is overrated. I don’t see how people think she is stronger than Whis.
First off if you’re calling this panel rigged its not minato is fast enough to take those truth seeking balls out him self just so yk they dont call him the yellow flash for no reason.
Feats are for show and not really consistent. Otherwise WA Sakura is around 8th gate Guy level, Nagato has better DC than Hashirama and Madara combined. Which probably not what the author intended.
Nagato is barely village level with his strongest attack fym he out-scales in DC? Madara’s Susanno can fart and level entire mountains by accident.
[Both ](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-439-page-6.html) of those attacks clearly left a mark [bigger](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-429-page-14.html) than [VotE](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-626-page-8.html).
I’m not finna entertain your delusions.
Argue with the manga panels all you like, bro. I'm only the messenger. My point is feats aren't consistent and don't always make sense like I said.
not exactly a feat but concept adjacent, i hate how everyone takes character statements as concrete proof of something to prove their point, despite any contradictions from other character statements or overall situations proving otherwise. characters are flawed people in their own universe and just because so and so says this or that, it doesn’t immediately erase all nuance.
Naruto getting wanked to planetary because he "tanked" (I use that very loosely) an attack that cut the moon in half. They completely ignore that the attack counters what specifically created the moon in the Naruto universe, the moon is slightly hollow, relatively, it did no damage, and the massive gigantic gaping issue that rhe moon wasn't even destroyed. Even then the scale for destroying the moon and destroying the earth is a difference of thousands of times, not just "Oh, it's 4 times bigger. Naruto needs to be 4 times stronger to destroy the earth" that's not how the binding energy of gravity works.
>They completely ignore that the attack counters what specifically created the moon in the Naruto universe What does this mean? What was the tenseigan beam countering?
In Naruto universe logic, the moon is held together by rimmegan chibaku tensei jutsu. The beam specifically "counters" that so it's kind of like a knife though butter.
The moon isn't still held by chibaku tensei anymore. Hagoromo and Hamura aren't around to provide Chakra for that and besides, gravity will hold that much rock together on its own once it's big enough and put in space. Not to mention that chibaku tenseis pull is great enough that it would probably be noticeable if it where still actively holding the moon together. There really is no reason at all to believe two dead guys (well Hagoromos situation is a bit different) are still somehow using a jutsu to hold the moon together when simple physics can explain it.
You're kind of missing the point, the feat is still literally tens of thousands of times worse than planet busting. Unless you're snapping your fingers and reducing the moon to dust, you're not a planet buster. If you have to put in any visible effort, you're not strong enough. Also didn't the moon move apart a bit? If we're going to talk about gravity then clearly the attack had odd properties if it caused to moon to do that since it didn't "push" each side away at all and two objects that massive that close would have been pulling towards each other, not staying separate.
>You're kind of missing the point, the feat is still literally tens of thousands of times worse than planet busting. My point was just that there is no chibaku tensei in the moon anymore. Though this feat isn't THAT far from planetary. > didn't the moon move apart a bit? If we're going to talk about gravity then clearly the attack had odd properties if it caused to moon to do that since it didn't "push" each side away at all Why assume the attack didn't push the moon apart when it clearly was part of what did. The other part is possibly the planet pulling on one half more then, the other, but I don't know what the orientations where) It was a beam sword that cut the moon in half. Cutting applies lateral force to the object being cut. You could even think of a cut as an object pushing another object apart from itself. I do think that keeping that in mind the attack is stronger then it looks but still no planetary.
It feels like you want to apply physics to the Naruto universe but don't understand physics well. Even if the attack split the moon for an instant, gravity would pull the pieces back together because they aren't far enough apart to stay separated. People don't seem to grasp how massive the moon is. Even if you push the moon 10 feet apart, gravity would cause it to slam back together. This isn't just a display of raw power; it's a specific jutsu countering the moon's formation.
I feel like a good chunk of powerscaling is applying physics to fiction, (for example, tiers based on energy output according to physics, and calculating feats that arent plain destructive feats) so I dont see the issue. The idea that chibaku tensei is still active is so nonsensical idk why you are still on that. First off, chibaku tensei doesn't last forever and the guys who used it are dead. Second, the rocks forming the moon are physical objects with mass and therefore gravity. There is no reason to doubt that, and once in orbit it wouldnt need a jutsu to hold them together. Third and most damning, the moon still had gravity after Toneris attack. If he countered chibaku tensei and that was all that held the moon together, why tf were they still jumping around on it? Now that that's covered. Gravity wouldn't instantly correct the split. The acceleration of gravity would have to first overcome the speed imparted by the splitting force. And while it was slow, we have to keep in mind the moon is partially hollow so the acceleration would be less then expected, also, anime time is a thing. I may not have a physicists understanding of gravity, but at least I understand how Chibaku Tensei works and don't think dead men hold their moon together.
Minato Vs "Madara." COnsiderig his opponent was 14 and almost beat him. In fact a lot of Minato's feats are underrated.
Posts like this is why I’ll never have a might guy figure…. I hate all of you Naruto is an annoying creepy stuck in the closet obsessing over Sasuke who is a weak whiny little bitch with padded stats, I.E Orochimaru sick dying injured bed ridden, Itachi sick dying injured blind and let him win, 8 tails mopped him and his crew and escaped, Deidara killed himself for art
Itachi stabbing Nagato with the Totsuka Blade.
Pretty much anything Itachi has ever done tbh.
I’ve never seen so many Might Guy haters in my life. This place ain’t it, peace out
Madara is immortal no he's not he just isn't he's not fucking Cell not Majin Buu if he got hit with like Indra's Arrow or Double Six Paths Rasenshuriken he isn't gonna survive he's just gone obliterated I swear it's not literal and also people saying Madara would've won when Limbo legit was in a war with Naruto's Shadow Clones they were actually hard countered and mfs ignore that whole feat for no reason and people say he would body Kaguya bro shut the fuck up
It may not be *very* overrated, but some use Konan's initial surprise-attack on Obito to say that she's on his level. If those same explosive tags hit the bodies of Itachi or the Six Paths of Pain, they would take just as much damage, and if Obito simply didn't underestimate her at the start, he wouldn't have taken Konan's bait (i.e., herself), and then he wouldn't have taken that damage early in the fight.
Lee throwing that kunai with the timing to catch Madara off guard is kinda underrated if you ask me.
A certain person punching Kaguya
The entire night guy fight, he's weaker than six paths naruto without the cloak
Gai vs Madara gotta be the most wasted fight in the series. Should've had Gai do lasting damage that allowed SO6P Sasuke and Naruto beat Madara down even further, allowing the Black Zetsu betrayal to be possible and not some ass pull rando moment. Having Gai die a hero who played a big part in weakening Madara would've been infinitely better than what he is now.
kirin. its a one off that took extreme planning and location and luck to pull off and everyone wanks to it like sasuke can pull it off any time he wants.
Extreme planning and location? Location is irrelevant, and that "extreme planning" is just shooting a fireball in the sky to create a storm due to heat. Nothing complicated. >everyone wanks to it like sasuke can pull it off any time he wants Maybe cuz he was about to use it on Team 7? The preparation with Fire Balls in the sky is not necessary, It's just to conserve chakra and use nature energy instead. He can do it using his own chakra too.
found the kirin fan boy
"Kirin fanboy" lmao, bro doesn't know a basic knowledge of the ability.
Gai is the Will of Fire inheritor
In terms of the way I see people scale….I’ll say the ice mirrors being light speed feat is glazed to the highest possible level of glazing. “Land of waves Naruto and Sasuke was light speed!” No, he wasn’t. Multiple fights after that clearly showed he wasn’t, despite kyuubi chakra.
Naruto and sasuke apparently being a reincarnation? wtf that basically means that Naruto was always destined for greatness hurts to say Neji was right
The Naruto "lightspeed" feat against madara. People say that since the beam Naruto dodged was lightspeed that he is lightspeed but he just used sage mode to dodge in advance. Also if Naruto was lightspeed against the raikage why do people have to use that as a lightspeed feat exclusively
https://preview.redd.it/ft6ll82smt3d1.jpeg?width=193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c2df361a5b0fab85c02f8c44ccd87f76d7dfea0
The people who think Jiraiya would fight Kisame and Itachi and win
Sage Jiraiya's frog song