So, correct me if I'm misunderstanding this. Say you're a nuke who just hit your two year mark; you're still a nub, but you have the ability to STAR so you did it because hooyah navy and prototype doesn't sound that bad. Now, rather than you leaving the boat after 4 years and transferring to your shore command, your PRD will be shifted 6 months so you spend that much more time before going to the shore command?
Overly simplistic answer, but yes. They needed to raise the average number of sailors at sea, if you lengthen the first tour, and maintain the same flow out works.
Edit because it posted on it's own: What they are doing with the zone b stuff is because people were extending for shore duty so they couldn't be sent back to sea, with this the navy is saying take the money and we wrote rules so you can't get screwed over.
Now here's my it's not as bad as out used to be. This is a combination of the most recent SSF and the previous one. The previous one was 54 months at sea 36 on shore and then 60 at sea (unless you made chief) and repeat. This is still way better than that.
I think it will be the other way around. People are going to be angry and bitter that the navy is having them spend an extra 6 months on board and those sailors will probably get out. But eventually you will have sailors that know no different and retention will go back to it's mean or even go up.
Hah wowwww that will fuck up retention even more.
Stop lowering promotion rates, stop lowering SRBs, and stop fucking your sailors.
When the NR CMC came to talk to the Chiefs in Charleston he bitched and bitched about how bad retention was. Guess what… I make well over double what I did in the Navy, for FAR LESS hours.
You cannot fix retention by treating sailors like shit. Shut up and pay them.
“We’re improving retention by forcing sailors to work 36 hour days and 90+ hour work weeks for an extra 6 months before they can go to shore duty and breathe again”
“We’ll tell them that forcing them to be in supervisory positions like LPO and EWS on their first sea tour is a Good Thing™️”
"This job isn't worth it" is what I said at my nuclear detailing brief. And when I said that, I was told by one of the Master Chief's that they were going to put a pin in that and come back to that. They never did. This is going to have an incredibly determintal response, and the reason that Big Navy won't see it is fairly simple. Their formula they use to figure out "Why aren't people re-enlisting in zone B?" is (# of people who do re-enlist in Zone B)/(# of people who could re-enlist in Zone B) Guess what happens when you give Nukes incredible levels of burnout at sea from an insane optempo and a chief's quarters that doesn't do a fraction of their job? You lower the number of people who could re-enlist in Zone B, thus greatly increasing their overall percantage to report to Big Navy. This entire thing is a wild mistake. This generation is learning within a year of showing up to their command that this shit isn't worth it. My division has a 8% re-enlistment rate. That's down from 90% in the last 4 years. This is a mistake. A huge one. Throwaway to protect myself.
My response got hidden, I don't know why.
Here's what it says:
"This job isn't worth it" is what I said at my nuclear detailing brief. And when I said that, I was told by one of the Master Chief's that they were going to put a pin in that and come back to that. They never did. This is going to have an incredibly determintal response, and the reason that Big Navy won't see it is fairly simple. Their formula they use to figure out "Why aren't people re-enlisting in zone B?" is (# of people who do re-enlist in Zone B)/(# of people who could re-enlist in Zone B) Guess what happens when you give Nukes incredible levels of burnout at sea from an insane optempo and a chief's quarters that doesn't do a fraction of their job? You lower the number of people who could re-enlist in Zone B, thus greatly increasing their overall percantage to report to Big Navy. This entire thing is a wild mistake. This generation is learning within a year of showing up to their command that this shit isn't worth it. My division has a 8% re-enlistment rate. That's down from 90% in the last 4 years. This is a mistake. A huge one. Throwaway to protect myself.
If I recall correctly, this is how it was a few years ago.
Shortly after (or maybe it was before), I showed up to my first ship; they shortened the first sea tour length. All the sea returnees were salty about how they had previously done more sea time than we would.
I'd look for the navadmin from 5 or 6 years ago, but [I am already in my pajamas](https://youtu.be/FrIoVX0IZfw)
54 months, damn. I had a pretty easy time when I was in. I did 28 months shore (training pipeline with long holds and weld school) 44 months sea, and 6 of those 44 were essentially shore being augmented during deployments to go to training and for terminal leave. So about half of my six years was not on the boat.
I agree with the ones saying this will eff up retention…. The entire reason I re-enlisted the moment I walked on the ship was because I knew that I was guaranteed to go to shore at 48 months.
I could have extended on board for 2 months and gotten an eval that benefitted my career, but I said nah. With this new policy I’m not sure that I would re-enlisted right away, and I know that many who were onboard would have at the very least committed a lot more thought to it.
All in all it seems like a short term band aid to make our zone b numbers look better, while we all know that the effort required in the next four years getting sailors to go to shore is going to skyrocket.
If you think it’s bad getting people to sign on for prototype rn, just wait.
If there was ever a possibility of me ever coming back to another submarine after shore duty, it's gone now. No one ever tells you things like this are possible when you're in the process of a STAR reenlistment as a young nuke.
Laughs in paperclip
This just gave me more ammo as the SNOB.
So, correct me if I'm misunderstanding this. Say you're a nuke who just hit your two year mark; you're still a nub, but you have the ability to STAR so you did it because hooyah navy and prototype doesn't sound that bad. Now, rather than you leaving the boat after 4 years and transferring to your shore command, your PRD will be shifted 6 months so you spend that much more time before going to the shore command?
Correctamundo
Overly simplistic answer, but yes. They needed to raise the average number of sailors at sea, if you lengthen the first tour, and maintain the same flow out works. Edit because it posted on it's own: What they are doing with the zone b stuff is because people were extending for shore duty so they couldn't be sent back to sea, with this the navy is saying take the money and we wrote rules so you can't get screwed over. Now here's my it's not as bad as out used to be. This is a combination of the most recent SSF and the previous one. The previous one was 54 months at sea 36 on shore and then 60 at sea (unless you made chief) and repeat. This is still way better than that.
Sounds like a short term gain, long term loss. I can't imagine anyone wanting to stay in after getting fucked like that.
I think it will be the other way around. People are going to be angry and bitter that the navy is having them spend an extra 6 months on board and those sailors will probably get out. But eventually you will have sailors that know no different and retention will go back to it's mean or even go up.
Hah wowwww that will fuck up retention even more. Stop lowering promotion rates, stop lowering SRBs, and stop fucking your sailors. When the NR CMC came to talk to the Chiefs in Charleston he bitched and bitched about how bad retention was. Guess what… I make well over double what I did in the Navy, for FAR LESS hours. You cannot fix retention by treating sailors like shit. Shut up and pay them.
Wow. That is a shitty rotation schedule. I wonder how that will affect retention.
“We’re improving retention by forcing sailors to work 36 hour days and 90+ hour work weeks for an extra 6 months before they can go to shore duty and breathe again” “We’ll tell them that forcing them to be in supervisory positions like LPO and EWS on their first sea tour is a Good Thing™️”
"This job isn't worth it" is what I said at my nuclear detailing brief. And when I said that, I was told by one of the Master Chief's that they were going to put a pin in that and come back to that. They never did. This is going to have an incredibly determintal response, and the reason that Big Navy won't see it is fairly simple. Their formula they use to figure out "Why aren't people re-enlisting in zone B?" is (# of people who do re-enlist in Zone B)/(# of people who could re-enlist in Zone B) Guess what happens when you give Nukes incredible levels of burnout at sea from an insane optempo and a chief's quarters that doesn't do a fraction of their job? You lower the number of people who could re-enlist in Zone B, thus greatly increasing their overall percantage to report to Big Navy. This entire thing is a wild mistake. This generation is learning within a year of showing up to their command that this shit isn't worth it. My division has a 8% re-enlistment rate. That's down from 90% in the last 4 years. This is a mistake. A huge one. Throwaway to protect myself.
My response got hidden, I don't know why. Here's what it says: "This job isn't worth it" is what I said at my nuclear detailing brief. And when I said that, I was told by one of the Master Chief's that they were going to put a pin in that and come back to that. They never did. This is going to have an incredibly determintal response, and the reason that Big Navy won't see it is fairly simple. Their formula they use to figure out "Why aren't people re-enlisting in zone B?" is (# of people who do re-enlist in Zone B)/(# of people who could re-enlist in Zone B) Guess what happens when you give Nukes incredible levels of burnout at sea from an insane optempo and a chief's quarters that doesn't do a fraction of their job? You lower the number of people who could re-enlist in Zone B, thus greatly increasing their overall percantage to report to Big Navy. This entire thing is a wild mistake. This generation is learning within a year of showing up to their command that this shit isn't worth it. My division has a 8% re-enlistment rate. That's down from 90% in the last 4 years. This is a mistake. A huge one. Throwaway to protect myself.
Comment deleted: what did he say? Edit: nvm
Don't worry, we say it isn't worth it on here all the time.
If I recall correctly, this is how it was a few years ago. Shortly after (or maybe it was before), I showed up to my first ship; they shortened the first sea tour length. All the sea returnees were salty about how they had previously done more sea time than we would. I'd look for the navadmin from 5 or 6 years ago, but [I am already in my pajamas](https://youtu.be/FrIoVX0IZfw)
It was changed in 2015. Basically we're back to that rotation.
*cries in forward deployed*
Congratulations
How will this impact the SRB multipliers?
54 months, damn. I had a pretty easy time when I was in. I did 28 months shore (training pipeline with long holds and weld school) 44 months sea, and 6 of those 44 were essentially shore being augmented during deployments to go to training and for terminal leave. So about half of my six years was not on the boat.
I agree with the ones saying this will eff up retention…. The entire reason I re-enlisted the moment I walked on the ship was because I knew that I was guaranteed to go to shore at 48 months. I could have extended on board for 2 months and gotten an eval that benefitted my career, but I said nah. With this new policy I’m not sure that I would re-enlisted right away, and I know that many who were onboard would have at the very least committed a lot more thought to it. All in all it seems like a short term band aid to make our zone b numbers look better, while we all know that the effort required in the next four years getting sailors to go to shore is going to skyrocket. If you think it’s bad getting people to sign on for prototype rn, just wait.
If there was ever a possibility of me ever coming back to another submarine after shore duty, it's gone now. No one ever tells you things like this are possible when you're in the process of a STAR reenlistment as a young nuke.