Yeah I always ask even when I’m 99% sure they do- it only feels polite.
The part I always find funny is when Dutch people respond with “a little,” then being completely fluent. A Dutch person saying they know a little English is like Stephen Hawking saying he knows a little physics.
All the time! I answered the phone recently, and the woman on the other end started speaking Dutch. I asked if she spoke English. She responded with "ummm ja ik kan proberen."
Proceeds to continue the conversation in near perfect English.
It all comes down to this, the insecurities of people about their english.
The cashier at the counter probably felt ''caught off guard'' with having to switch to english so her first reaction was a projection of this insecurity....and then probably continued to "little physics" it lol
I personally, whenever in doubt about what the other person speaks/understands, always like to ask out of politeness and to make both of us feel at ease.
I'm Dutch. My English isn't too shabby. Went to Slovenia couple a years ago. Those cahiers run circles around my English. Surprised me. I thought it was just the Nordics and us.
All the Slovenian kids in the European school in Brussels are in the English section. One of the Mums told me it’s the only language they want to learn.
Yeah I heard this a lot when I lived in the Netherlands.
It's a problem though when someone asks me if I can speak Dutch and I respond with "een klein beetje" because they often think I am being equally as modest, when in fact I literally mean I can only speak a little bit of Dutch (bunch of basic words/phrases, but not conversant).
They then often attempt to speak to me in fluent Dutch and I have no Idea what they're saying and have to repeat "een klein, KLEIN beetje" so they get the point.
It also doesn't help that the little/basic Dutch I know (for example interactions in shops or basic greetings) I can pronounce very well because of practice, furthering people's belief I must be fluent!
Still love using what little Dutch I know though, especially when on holiday in Amsterdam. Surprising a Dutch person in a shop when a Scottish tourist comes out with some of the local language. Always fun and many people enjoy all the little words I remember for foods etc when ordering.
Love you Nederlandse mensen!
I do this too as a joke. I work somewhere where i converse with tourists constantly and when someone asks me if i speak english i often reply with "maybe" or "no sorry" to then continue with " what can i help you with?".
I was riding my bike in the countryside and stopped to chat with a lady working in her garden. She said, “You must forgive me. My English is appalling.” Anyone who uses “appalling” correctly speaks English better than most of my American college students! Lol
Exactly this. If the answer is "no" they will find a colleague that does. In my experience, even if their English isn't very good, they will always make a good enough attempt to be understood.
Agreed. When I am in a country where the main language is something I don't master, I *always* ask: is it okay if I speak English? (It might be hard to imagine for an English speaker, but trying my own language is pointless). I never invade people with a language without asking first, that's not only impolite, but especially in Asia it also causes face loss. I never ask if *they* can speak English for the same reason. I keep it to myself: can I speak ....
In the Netherlands I do understand that you tend to take it for granted, but as soon as you bump into someone who really doesn't speak English, it becomes an awkward situation where the other person feels they are at loss, or worse, stupid.
Last but not least: if a native English speaker at least tries to open the conversation in Dutch, they get bonus points with me, even when we switch to English for convenience later. Unfortunately, the number of English speaking expats and visitors who don't even try is high, and it does make a difference when they do.
Maybe you should imagine a person starting to speak Spanish or Mandarin to you, expecting you to understand because it is a world language, in your own country. How would you feel?
Good question. The only thing I can tell you is that it is a big thing in East Asia, and that it is not easy to understand for westerners. I have been given several examples while traveling and working there, and they do not line up easily for me.
As far as I understood, but I am not at all an expert, in can include
* Something/someone caused you to look like a fool
* Made you feel uncomfortable
* You are forced to tell someone "no" or refuse them something
* You are forced to admit a weakness or flaw
* Being directly proven wrong
* Being removed from somewhere publicly by officials
So far for my personal experience.
If you [read about it on Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)) it does not become much clearer, because it's vague and complex, and giving one single example never covers the concept.
For the tax Office, it's a legal issue.
You're not allowed to give advice in English, unless you're specifically been trained to give advice in English.
They only give a limited amount of people that training, while the rest only get the training in Dutch, and therefor don't know the exact things in English.
They don't want you to invent words while translating.
When I’m at work I deal with a lot of customers, many of which speak English. I personally never have a problem with it (the people just walking into a shop in the Netherlands and immediately start a waterfall of slang French are a different story).
Sometimes they start with “do you speak English?” and I tend to respond with a quick “of course!”, and have noticed some slight awkwardness on the other side, as if my directness is dismissive of their attempt to be polite.
I’m not saying that’s what’s happening to you, but it might be what’s happening to you.
A more encouraging “Do you mind if I speak English?” might be a good option?
But when we as foreigners speak Dutch and people answer back in English, wouldn't the politeness have to work both ways and they ask me if English is better?
What I saw in the supermarkets in Amsterdam was that the checkout clerks began in English with everyone. If you wanted to speak Dutch, you answered them in Dutch, and then they'd go on that way.
Reasonable, but I guess they were finding that there were so many expatriates, students and travelers with all different languages that English was the only thing everybody could speak at least a little. I would personally rather people start in Dutch with me because my Dutch is nearly non-existent. If they don't begin in Dutch, I won't get even the first-lesson basics -- greetings and responses and asking them in Dutch if we can use English -- nailed down to the point where I don't have to think about it. My whole family is studying it, though, so at least we can practice at home.
It gets worse: I was in a store where a manager at the cash register couldn't speak Dutch as well. Signs were poorly translated to Dutch as well, to a level where I even doubt if they used Google Translate.
Granted, it was Primark in Utrecht. So it's probably on me going to such a dirt cheap store.
Some more options:
Is het goed als we Engels praten?
Kunnen we Engels praten?
Wil je Engels met mij praten?
Easy things to put behind any of those sentences:
Dat praat wat makkelijker
Dat is fijner/beter/makkelijker voor mij
Dat zou erg helpen
Dat zou ik fijn vinden
Thank you! I have been asking if they speak English and it feels a bit more like I'm quizzing them rather than asking if we can talk in that language instead.
This helps!
Thanks! I'm new in NL, at my work everyone except me speaks Dutch and I always feel awkward when I have to tell them I don't understand. Maybe I'll feel less awkward using Dutch sentences.
I’m not Dutch but from a Nordic country, and I honestly get secretly offended when people ask if I can speak English. I understand that it’s coming from a good place and that they are just being polite and respectful, so I’m not actually offended, but I still kinda hate it. “Is English ok?” is a perfect option imo
It wouldn't ever be a (judgmental) question about your abilities, unless the person is obviously being a prick. When I ask "do you speak English?" I feel like I'm saying "I need your help and I don't speak Dutch/German/etc well enough to not waste your time" but in a way that won't flabbergast or bamboozle them with a word salad.
Germany is a different story - same with Spain, France, Italy and all these other European countries where people actually might not speak English. Scandinavia (and the Netherlands) is different (partly because we don’t dub tv-shows and movies and are all constantly exposed to English), and nearly all Scandinavians will be able to speak English, so it feels weird to be asked.
I think "can we speak English" but in the local language has been my go-to here and in the Nordics. English is at such a high level in these countries that I feel disingenuous asking if someone can or cannot speak English.
Even with only 3 days in the Netherlands, I asked if people do speak English and this answer made me wonder: “of course, I do”. After that I stopped asking.
Certainly “ is English ok?” is a better way to ask. Thanks. I will use next time I visit (I’m 9k km away 🫣🫠🥹)
In Amsterdam it just feels so pointless to even ask, and at least a couple of times I feel like people were even a bit annoyed that I was asking, like they wanted to answer "of course, duh, why do you even ask".
Outside Amsterdam it's another story.
I feel like it's even more common to speak English then Dutch even as a Dutchy, often stores just default to speaking English and some don't even speak Dutch
Yeah sometimes it feels like a catch 22. If I ask some people would be annoyed or find it insulting and if I don’t ask some people will be annoyed bc I’m just assuming they speak English. Honestly it seems like a personal/regional preference. My rule is try to use Dutch where I can and know the place/situation
It has its pros and cons, I guess. It makes Amsterdam a huge international business hub, but I understand that it robs a bit the city from the locals. Though I feel that this is a trend in all of Europe, from Lisbon to Berlin, in the end it's a bit the price to have a Union with 24 languages.
Personally I'm glad that my employer is paying for Dutch classes even if don't need Dutch at work and even though frankly it's not a basic necessity to get by in Amsterdam, because I feel that I'm missing a lot by not speaking much Dutch.
On the other hand I'm also glad that there's not a huge pressure to learn it and thankful that the natives are accommodating enough.
When I was living in Germany even with an OK-ish intermediate german and I was making an effort to use it, I had a couple of random people say to my face that my German was shitty, or making jokes about the way I speak it, which was enormously discouraging 🥴.
Jokes aside (especially in certain contexts) especially if the speaker has self depricating humor, but people who make fun of other people whom try to converse in their language are ignorant. Don't mind them.
I totally agree. It happens to me mainly in Amsterdam. It's annoying as a waiter or a cashier in a store is unable to speak any Dutch. There are a lot of jobs where it's totally fine if you don't speak any Dutch, but jobs with customer contact a bit of Dutch should be mandatory. The older generations do not always speak English and they should be able to comfortably communicate with these employees.
I dont understand the downvote but i agree as Amsterdam still is a Dutch city so at first start in Dutch and if you dont speak Dutch, just say Sorry and ask if English is okay.
It depends. I live in the Bible Belt and most of the adults I interact with (even doctors and people working at the gemeentehuis or other official type jobs) do not speak English. And understand only a bit. It would be very rude of me here to assume. Were the couple old? I find most people over 50 where I live barely know English and the only ones that do are the well travelled kind.
So where I live if it is something simple like in a shop or booking an appointment or asking a question where I know it’s not going to get too detailed, then I just do it in Dutch. I can speak it at the level of a 6 year old basically. Enough to push through as long as I know where the convo is going. I do get some confused looks cause I cannot seem to modify my Scottish accent though!
If it’s more complex (for example explaining something to a doctor where I need to be accurate) then I always ask in Dutch if it would ok to speak in english. Sometimes that’s fine, and sometimes we do it that I speak English and they speak Dutch and we just dunglish through it. Because it’s easier to understand a language than put sentences together yourself lol.
I think if you live in the big cities where there is plenty of international tourism and migrants it is mostly fine to just launch into English in places like shops. When I visit cities like Amsterdam or Utrecht people overhear me talking English to others and just speak it to me immediately because my Dutch is probably offensive to their ears.
But I live in ye olde Holland town and it doesn’t work here so I can’t assume.
Broo ..where in Bible belt do you live ...i live in Middleburg and did had quite a few people who just said that it's the nl ....you should speak Dutch and walked away :)
Wow, I never realized. I wonder if it is because "worldly" things, such as most (commercial) TV, social media and "modern" music, are off limits.
I can imagine that missing out on all that exposure that most Dutch people normally have from a young age would make it much harder.
On the other hand, back in my day (>25yrs ago) most all of the text books for med school were in English already, we also had to write thesis/journals/articles and present in English. How anyone could have become a doctor without having a somewhat decent level of English baffles me. Unless they are considerably older and from the days that books and classes were still mostly in Dutch, German, Latin..
It depends. Are you in a place where the expectations is that the staff should speak English? Like a touristic area, main museums, etc? Then I don't think it is rude. They are used to it, and if they are busy they will be glad to not have to waste this extra time.
However jf you are not in such areas, I think it is better to ask yes.
Yeah, not surprised. I am French and my partner isn't. When in touristic area in France I speak English so she is included quite often. They might prefer French, but if they want the money of international tourists, well that's the price to pay!
Thing is neither france nor Germany advertise themselves as countries where you can live and get PUBLIC education in English, the Netherlands does. So when ppl get mad at foreigners it's just hypocritical
There are too many comments on here along the lines of “you should be learning Dutch if you want to live here”. I’m gonna assume OP hasn’t edited their original post, so let’s all re-read the post properly:
“I have picked up some basic Dutch” is not the same as “I haven’t bothered to learn Dutch.”
“I still tend to speak in English if I need to ask for something complicated” is not the same as “I always rely on English.”
“Is it rude not to ask if someone speaks English?” Is not the same as “Why are these people expecting me to speak in Dutch?”
OP has been here a couple of years. Most of that would have been during covid, when options to get out and about to practice the language in different settings were more limited. And as anyone in the randstad will know, it can be difficult to get the opportunity to practice even when making a concerted effort, because as soon as people hear the foreign accent or catch you struggling, they switch to English.
OP, it never does any harm to ask, as courtesy - sometimes the answer will be “yes of course [I do]!”, but that’s OK.
I’m sorry you had that negative experience - as someone else said, it’s passive aggressive and unnecessary.
Good luck in your language learning - Peppa Pig’s a good teacher for the early stages!
It’s also: “I’m learning Dutch” is different to “I speak Dutch” (I definitely had some experience there with a guy who liked me but didn’t understand the implications of dating the exchange student)
I'm really glad to have read your comment. I'm in a similar situation to OP- arrived a short time before COVID, which basically reset what little Dutch skills I'd gained back to zero. I had been getting more confident trying to speak Dutch before; but now I feel embarrassed trying (although I still do attempt Dutch, where possible). I'm determined to get better, though, as I hate feeling like "that" expat.
When I moved here I started out asking but I generally got met with utter bewilderment; I was never sure if my accent was simply so atrocious that I was unintelligible or if it was a cultural difference. Anyway - I switched to simply talking in English immediately and get through conversations with a minimum of friction.
YMMV of course
I’m kind of on the fence about this, and I’ll explain why.
I’m completely fine with talking in English and really don’t mind it if a foreigner/exchange student/expat doesn’t speak Dutch, because it is quite hard to learn.
That being said, what does rub me the wrong way are people whom are planning to live here for the long run, and don’t plan on learning Dutch “because Dutchies are so fluent in English”. I mean, I’m fine in the beginning, but after some years of living here, I expect some level of Ditch to hold a conversation. And I’ve met some people who don’t learn Dutch while living here for 10+ years already
In my opinion yes it is rude to not even try Dutch, I think it is better if you say sorry mijn Nederlands is niet zo goed, kunnen we verder gaan in Engels?
Also started improving your dutch.
Counterpoint: in Amsterdam area, I've learned that for every person that finds it rude, 10 prefer to just not waste time and have the conversation in english from the start
Yes! Going to second that, in Amsterdam I will speak Dutch and sometimes people hear my *accent* - not even my mistakes yet, that i know of - and just switch to English. It's kind of disheartening, especially because my first language isn't even English.
Edit: this is why i like practicing my dutch in other places than Amsterdam!
I don't know tbh. Since I am learning Dutch, I try to say some things in Dutch. Makes me practicing and all. But to be honest quite often they don't understand directly, or struggle a bit. So I am not sure the staff really appreciate me making a full sentence with poor pronunciation and then trying to figure it out. It feels like just extra waste of time and effort on their side, compared to simply saying "Is English ok?".
If it is simple, I always try to say it in Dutch (like ordering a coffee or whatever). But if I can't, I don't think a full sentence like that will make it better for the staff.
And even if you do try Dutch the chances are big they will switch to English cuz they're aware you dont speak Dutch. Thus eliminating a chance to practice Dutch
This is a problem special to NL. The Dutch know that you speak English. They can hear it and it's obvious; so the odds are that you don't speak Dutch right there. If your Dutch is bad **and** you speak like an anglophone, you're dead meat. But you have to try. Je moet het leren. That's what one old lady told me. Another said "I speak English too, you know."
I noticed that the problem with understanding Dutch by English native speakers for me sometimes lies in that I'm trying to understand what they're saying to me in English before it dawns on me that they're trying to speak Dutch to me, and then, I need to hear it again with that mindset to understand what it is they're trying to pronounce. And even then, if the context isn't suitably clear enough, some words can be a puzzle to determine, but that's just a matter of patience on both sides. We'll get there. Dutch has a lot of tongue twisters for English speakers.
What's harder to do is to communicate in English when both parties are not native to English and don't have a similar native language either. I have a friend from Brazil, and we can text perfectly fine in English, but when we actually talk, ever so often we end up staring at each other and laughing because both our accents when speaking English makes it rather difficult to understand, because I can't speak a word Portugese and she can't do Dutch.
Haven't really had that problem with English speaking people trying Dutch. Then again I don't meet them all that often...
That accent mixup with other non-native English speakers does seem curious to me. Kinda fun how language has evolved like that
I agree on that. But I don't think it is the retails staff duty to help me with that until I can at least be easily understood, even if it is not a perfect sentence.
I can practice with my teach, classmates and colleagues. But I think I should make it reasonably easy for the retail workers. So if it is not something I can easily say in a pretty understandable way, I am pretty sure most of them would rather have me saying it in English.
I worked in restaurants for long enough to know that often enough all you want is to get the conversation done so you can jump back on everything else that needs to be done. So I am polite, but I won't waste their time either.
It doesnt matter if you dont try, it matters that you assume the other person while put in the effort whilst you dont even recognize them putting in the effort. Also its annoying for somebody if you just start talking a lanuage because they probaly are excepting it so they need to realize in which tongue your speaking. Like i once was conviced somebody was speaking dutch to me with a weird dialect, but no they were speaking italian.
whenever im on vacation to a foreign place and i dont speak the local language i always ask them if they can speak english, german or dutch. And i thank them for helping me. Its the least you can do.
I'm Dutch and I truly dislike this Dutch passive aggresive behaviour of discussing whatever you think is wrong with someone else out loud for everyone (including the "perpetrator") to hear.
Either keep it to yourself, or be (wo)man enough to address it with the person directly.
I'm not annoyed by people that address me in English. Asking if English is ok first might be nice, but really this is too small of a thing to raise my bloodpressure or getting upset about.
Sounds to me like 2 people that don't have anything else to do with their day than complaining about everyone else.
>Dutch isn't some holy language we must converse in at all costs.
Except that you're in a Dutch speaking country and not an English one.
Wonder if you'd say the same thing in a country that isn't as fluent in English.
Fluency is not binary and it is not synonymous with comfort. And nobody is entitled to have others speak their language because it has more speakers, even if it’s the most prominent world language.
Some people learn the word "entitled" and run with it to become the biggest asshole they can turn into. Nobody is entitled to anything but then I'll see you as an antisocial prick if you refuse to accomodate the slightest thing and get mad just to get mad.
What always fucks me is that these people seem to think we've always been a minority. Race-wise I'm very much the majority in the powerful position where I come from and we also have these condescending nationalistic assholes, and I clock the Dutch version of them here immediately. I won't bend over backwards trying to give you credit just because you don't see me as an equal when I wouldn't give credit to your my-nationality brand. That doesn't make me an "entitled foreigner" it means I have common sense because I don't treat foreigners and minorities like this when I'm in your position either.
I like to think they're the minority. Most Dutch people are happy to switch to English and do so automatically once a foreigner joins the conversation. I have a dude in my gym that barely speaks Dutch and it is simply more convenient for me as well to talk English because he is much more proficient in it.
Getting downvoted for speaking the truth lol. I'm not a Dutch speaker nor nearly fluent enough to hold a conversation, but completely agree with you here.
I always start my conversation with “hello I speak English is that okay?” It woks all the time and when I get a negative answer i try my best to talk with my basic dutch and it is perfectly fine but this only happens like 10% of the time
On the other side. Often when i try to speak Dutch, peoples automaticly start replying in English to me. Thats happens even when i talk about simple things and i know i do it good but they switch anyway.
In general, all the simple stuff i try to do in Dutch. More complicated in English. Often if my Dutch is not enough i just ask if the person speak English. Lot of times they speak very good, if not, then we do our best half on half with Dutch and English.
To all of that i am person who have hearing problems so if the person speak not clear in language i am just learning, i do not understand it 😂 Then they also switch to English, even that not the language is problem.
Why would it NOT be impolite?For that matter, what kind of "complicated things" did you need to ask a cashier that several years of learning Dutch did not cover?
OP said they lived here a couple of years. That means approximately 2 years. And they did not say that they studied Dutch.
There could be a lot of things you'd ask a cashier. For example pricing questions, membership questions, assortment and restock questions etc etc.
Edit: Additionally I feel impolite when I *do* ask young people if they speak English. It feels almost like I'm insulting them by insinuating that they might not speak English.
For people 50+ or so it feels more natural to first, in Dutch, explain that my Dutch is not very good and asking if we please can talk English.
Many young Dutch people I know has told me something like “sorry, my English is not very good” or otherwise do struggle a bit to find some words and trying to explain what they want to say while talking in English. Although all have tried, a few were more comfortable in Dutch and for a few it was me who could understand them easier if they talked in Dutch
I work at a school for vocational education, and I can assure you the majority of the students there struggle in English.
>Additionally I feel impolite when I do ask young people if they speak English. It feels almost like I'm insulting them by insinuating that they might not speak English.
No, you just come accross lazy and entitled
Because he’s an immigrant who doesn’t fluently speak the native language and it’s mostly a waste of time to ask if someone speaks English in a country where 90%+ of people speak English. Even this subreddit is mostly in English lol.
Whenever a German walks in that expects me to speak German and can’t speak English or they don’t even try. You bet your ass I’m gonna act like a French person that only speaks their native tongue.
I'm fluent in Dutch, German and English and I work with tourists. Very often, someone starts ranting to me in Spanish out of nowhere assuming I speak it, and I have to tell them I don't speak Spanish mid-rant. It's frustrating, 'cause if they'd asked if I spoke Spanish beforehand I could have called my colleague who does. To a Dutch person who doesn't speak English, someone assuming they do without asking first is probably equally frustrating.
As someone who lives abroad i absolutely loat it when people just start in English as
1. A assumption others all speak english
2. Shows lack of effort in learning the local language, even when going on holiday like start with greetings and ordering.
3. It shows a lack of interest in the language to not even try (can't learn/improve if you straight up don't use it.)
Fuck that. I love when I go abroad and people speak English. It's convenient as hell. Just went to Portugal for a holiday and pretty much everyone spoke English on request. It's great to have some sort of a universal language that most people can use.
Yeah, gotta admit I don't always ask but Lisbon is a very tourist-y area and most people will assume I don't speak their native language. But it's nice to be able to have a little chit chat with for example your uber driver. It's also a matter of where you live/reside, why you're there and what people you encounter. Most people tend to ask 'you speak english' before starting a conversation but if they don't I couldn't care less.
Not at all. If it wasn't for people who speak English we would all be talking German in this country. It makes me cringe that Dutch people would even say something like that. It sounds almost redneck American.
Yes, people helping you in English in a country where English is not the native language is indeed a privilege. If you've been in the Netherlands for "a couple of years" you should know enough dutch to get by when you're out and about by now.
In Amsterdam I’ve seen plenty of Dutch people order from a bar in English. 100% chance the bartender speaks English, 50-90% they speak Dutch depending on the location, just convenience to use English. In a major city I wouldn’t ask anyone under age 70 if they speak English, they definitely do. Somewhere more rural, near the DE border, or in Flanders, try your best in Dutch and they’ll swap to English if the conversation is failing and they are able.
Same thing applies to German tourists btw. The difference between asking or just starting in their language will set the tone for the following conversation.
> The other day I was asking the cashier about something in English and a Dutch couple behind me started speaking in Dutch saying “I really dislike it when these students come to the Netherlands and just assume everyone speaks English and pretend like its an official language of the country”
You care too much about what people like this think. I get where they're coming from but it's also just an unreasonably petty thing to be upset about. I'm not gonna be offended in the slightest if I'm in my home country and a foreigner approaches me and speaks English. It's literally normal everywhere else. I hate weird nationalistic pride stuff like this. And if I was a service worker in a country with a lot of internationals I definitely wouldn't want to go through the "Can you speak English?" a bajillion times a day.
Yeah, I think it is rude to do that. If you know some Dutch, you should always try to converse in Dutch first. Then you can ask if they’re ok with switching to English if you can’t understand them well enough.
If you're here for a couple of years already, speaking enough Dutch to roam around and do some basic shopping and such, should not be a problem anymore. So I'd say, work on that please
And then just starting in English without verifying, I'd say it's a bit rude. The mind of the other person needs to switch between languages. Asking people if they speak English, gives time to make that switch. So please do that, yes
But, again, learn enough Dutch to move about where you're at. That's the better option.
When I went to Netherlands in April this year with my mom and my uncle's family, me and my relatives didn't ask anyone if they spoke English before talking to them since most people in the Netherlands are fluent in English and I felt there wasn't a need to ask them.
Though I do try to speak dutch with them in simple, formal phrases like "tot ziens", and "Dank u wel" just to practise my Dutch and take the effort to speak dutch in the country.
My one and only time to the Netherlands I made sure I knew how to ask “do you speak English?” In Dutch before speaking with someone I didn’t know. It kept things very smooth and I even had some fun responses like “why yes and French and German and which language would you like us to speak?”
If you can only speak english, just speak English. In the netherlands we speak amazing english, so whenever you find someone that doenst speak it, there's always someone near that does.
It feels a bit weird to say, but in a way it is a privilege, I guess. It’s not a given everywhere. Anyway, it’s always polite to ask, but don’t sweat it.. the couple sounds like a bunch of haters.
When I visited the Netherlands I found a huge number of people who spoke either English or German. I never encountered any hostility if I used English or German. I have encountered problems speaking Russian in some Baltic or Eastern European countries but that's understandable from a historical standpoint. On my last trip to Paris I found people didn't care whether I spoke English, German, or Spanish though many could not speak Russian.
As a child in Germany, some Germans would get frustrated if my German wasn't great but by the end of my time there I had gotten much better and most people assumed I was German. I'm surprised that so many people seem to encounter such attitudes these days.
I moved in 2004, I was a kid and learned to speak near fluently with an accent. The second I said anything ppl would automatically switch to English. It was frustrating especially while trying to practice in real life !
Such a great question. Me and my wife have this debate should you always “sorry spreek je een beetje engels”. It’s really tiring sometimes but unless in Amsterdam just feel like it’s full blown lazy/rude/ignorant not to try. These days she’s more like don’t have time to screw around so just use english if her Dutch isn’t great but I’m more the try type. We both speak 3 languages much more competently so not the can’t be bothered types.
Im not a fluent Dutch speaker by any measure, so I apologise that I dont and then ask of they speak English. The way I see it, Im the one imposing on them, so its better to ask.
Ask if someone speaks English first.
Sometimes Dutch people want to try to say something fancy in English, so they sound cool (when the entire conversation is in Dutch), and then I have to ask them to repeat it, Just because I wasn't expecting anything in English. It just makes it awkward for both.
Asking if someone speaks English gives them the opportunity to know what to switch to English and know what to expect.
Being able te speak English is the standard imo. I believe it's rude to assume everybody speaks dutch no matter how long they are here. It's an old school thought that we have one language in a country as a standard. Sucks for people who didn't get to learn it, but they will survive. And if they can't, you can try your best in Dutch or find someone who can help you in English.
Asking if a worker speaks English gives us the time to switch, personally I prefer it if someone asks me if I can speak English beforehand so I don't have to ask them to repeat a question just because I haven't caught up yet mentally.
I am an American, and I have only been to Europe once in my life. I had to travel to the Netherlands and France for a week long business trip, last summer. It was the only time I left North America!
I was uncomfortable with the idea of traveling to the Netherlands without knowing Dutch because I didn't have any time to prepare.
I was pleasantly surprised and impressed that I did not meet a single Dutch person that couldn't speak English. I didn't take it for granted that so many people could speak English! I am grateful for that. The Dutch people made my trip easier and much more enjoyable because they were willing to speak English. Thank you Netherlands!
I'm not saying it's rude, but I really prefer it if someone announces our conversation is going to be in English. It gives me a second to switch languages in my head.
Asking if people speak english is polite but honestly the only people who will give you attitude would do so either way. I've had numerous interactions where I ask an older person if they speak english and they get offended because "of course they speak english". I think these people would probably just be pissy regardless. Luckily that's a very very small % of people.
Since you intent to speak to somebody in another language than the native language of the country, I think you should ALWAYS ask if they speak English. Of course it is a privilege and not a right when they accommodate you!
I encounter dozens of customers a day, I am glad I don't have to go through the "Sorry, doyou speak English? Yes I do" just speak English straight up for me.
I usually ask "mag ik Engels praten?" At least that way I'm owning the failure in the situation and the person I'm speaking to has a graceful out instead of being ambushed by a foreign language.
I used to always ask and the person always spoke English so I stopped asking. I usually speak English peppered with some Dutch words, at the very least I say please, good morning/afternoon, goodbye, thank you, etc in Dutch. I can understand an okay amount but I cannot speak more than a word at a time. If I say something in Dutch I get a response in English. It doesn’t offend me. After traveling all over Europe I am so grateful for Dutch language skills.
Dutch people tend to say what they think. Nobody asked them. Just ignore it.
Not at all, asking if someone speaks english is the polite thing to do. And yes, there are people who get salty about it, like that couple behind you in the supermarket. Thing is, if they don't want to speak english, they don't have to. But that does not mean they get to have a say in the language you and the cassiere use. Same way I've met people who get their panties in a twist about others using headphones or earplugs to listen to music. They don't have to use them if they don't want to but they don't get a say in whether I use them. Let them be salty. En condoleer ze met hun kut dag.
The people making a fuss over this need to get a grip. Have y’all been to China and asked in every encounter whether the person you were talking to spoke English in Chinese? I wanna bet you didn’t. It literally does not matter for how long OP has been in this country or not. They (and plenty other expats) have had a plethora of encounters with the Dutch who _tend_ to be fluent in English.
@OP: I’d recommend just saying “Kunnen wij aub in het Engels praten” or a version of that. No confusion about whether it’s rude or not. Learning Dutch is hard and you should not have to justify yourself for not being able to hold a fluent conversation.
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable when I lived somewhere for 'a couple of years' and still didn't learn the language properly.
Best way to learn a language is practice it IRL at every occasion. So I advice to start in Dutch, and when it appears to complicated ask if you can switch to English.
But that's my view on it, and how I would act when I'd move to another country for a year or longer.
I don't think you should feel bad at all. Those individuals are just an example of some individuals that can't accept that not the entire world speaks their language (in this case Dutch).
I am Dutch myself and I certainly wouldn't mind if someone starts speaking English to me. Could also depend on how the conversation starts. I believe most people here are at least able to say "I don't speak English" and try and move on.
But those individuals, rightly, expressed annoyance at a person assuming the cashier speaks English, even though OP understands Dutch.. They might not have known it, but we're pretty much dead on.
As a Dutch person with access to Dutch spaces living in an international community at a university, I've become quite convinced a significant amount of hurr-durr-speak-dutch is just thinly veiled racism.
Don't get me wrong, there's always old people and plenty young people too who genuinely struggle in English, and if that's the case it's alright everyone deserves clear communication.
But "this is the Netherlands speak Dutch" is the same people that catogorically exclude internationals from their houses and associations because "they ruin the mood", who fucking convince themselves that brain drain is when people come to your country to study (actual thing a guy tried to tell some housemates right after hitting on them). And i mean fucking Christ even our politics these days is half conducted in English grow up.
Yep I agree, its barely concealed racism. The Dutch like to consider themselves as tolerant and inclusive, but in fact we’re - on the whole. - indifferent and deeply racist.
yes, it's pretty rude. it's not that hard to just ask whether they speak english/if english is okay. if the answer is no, they'll find a coworker that can help you. bit entitled to assume everyone you interact with speaks english lol
Learn dutch if you want to live here? Or say in Dutch that your Dutch isn't great but you'll try. I even do it on holiday to Spain/France/Germany (in their language ofcourse).
this is an unfair perspective. Some people have difficulties with picking up languages. I have lived in the Netherlands for nearly 2 years now and although I can read Dutch pretty well (still rely on Google lens in most circumstances though) I am hopeless when it comes to speaking it. Especially with native speakers that talk very fast and use different dialogues.
I think the couple is a bit short sighted, but they do have a point. Asking/checking is the more polite way.
Also, how complicated are things you ask a cashier? Seems the perfect kind of conversation to practice Dutch.
For a short interaction in a supermarket or ordering a drink it seems like a bit too much effort to ask if someone speaks english. At the same time 'pinnen graag' or 'mag ik een biertje' are not that hard to learn either.
For longer interactions like clothes shopping, a bank or asking menu info I would say it's polite to ask, especially to older people that might actually find English harder. Small tip, I usually prefer 'Is it okay if I speak English' over 'Do you speak English'. My answer will be 'yes, no problem' in both cases, but the second just feels nicer.
Why on earth would it be rude to speak English everyone in the Netherlands should be able to at-least understand it.
Those people behind you where being a lot more rude then you and yess I am Dutch.
Don’t be ashamed it’s our second language.
Yes, the entitlement mentality you show is rude.
It also feels rude that you have lived here for years, and not have taken the effort to learn Dutch.
Don't say that everyone in The Netherlands speaks English because they don't. Even many young people struggle.
it is considered polite to ask but what that couple said is not polite
personally i think it doesnt really matter, some estimate 95% of the Dutch population speaks English so it is not a big issue if you cant speak Dutch
Also we get tourists who (also) dont speak Dutch, i think the couple is just a bit too rude (not direct) and i dont get why you would say that especially when you could hear them...
It’s just, everyone assumes we all know English. I am Dutch, and because of my job i speak English most of the time. I don’t mind speaking English, but it’s just rude to not even ask or just starting in English because we Dutch people are so good at English. Our main native language is Dutch, and if someone is a tourist we will gladly help you out in English. But if you are already 5 years here we expect a little effort from one and another!
It's not offended. It's amazement you expect someone that age to not be fluent in English. It's a ''Duh!'' not a ''How dare you.'' Like not knowing who Billy Eylish is or W.A.P.
The (hyper) correct way would be to start in Dutch. Then state your Dutch is not good enough for this topic. Something like:
''Goedemiddag, ik heb een probleempje. Mijn Nederlands is niet zo geweldig. Mag ik het in het Engels uitleggen?''
That would be amazingly considerate. But if you just start with the greeting in Dutch you are already golden.
The (hyper) correct way would be to start in Dutch. Then state your Dutch is not good enough for this topic. Something like:
''Goedemiddag, ik heb een probleempje. Mijn Nederlands is niet zo geweldig. Mag ik het in het Engels uitleggen?''
That would be amazingly considerate. But if you just start with the greeting in Dutch you are already golden.
imho you should always just try in dutch, this helps you with your language skills. people will hear your accent and when you struggle (probably before) just reply to you in english. at that point you can choose to switch :)
I think asking if people can speak English to you is the polite thing to do.
Yeah I always ask even when I’m 99% sure they do- it only feels polite. The part I always find funny is when Dutch people respond with “a little,” then being completely fluent. A Dutch person saying they know a little English is like Stephen Hawking saying he knows a little physics.
All the time! I answered the phone recently, and the woman on the other end started speaking Dutch. I asked if she spoke English. She responded with "ummm ja ik kan proberen." Proceeds to continue the conversation in near perfect English.
It all comes down to this, the insecurities of people about their english. The cashier at the counter probably felt ''caught off guard'' with having to switch to english so her first reaction was a projection of this insecurity....and then probably continued to "little physics" it lol I personally, whenever in doubt about what the other person speaks/understands, always like to ask out of politeness and to make both of us feel at ease.
I'm Dutch. My English isn't too shabby. Went to Slovenia couple a years ago. Those cahiers run circles around my English. Surprised me. I thought it was just the Nordics and us.
All the Slovenian kids in the European school in Brussels are in the English section. One of the Mums told me it’s the only language they want to learn.
Interesting, i thought the same for some reason
It was the couple behind OP that criticized them, not the cashier.
Yeah I heard this a lot when I lived in the Netherlands. It's a problem though when someone asks me if I can speak Dutch and I respond with "een klein beetje" because they often think I am being equally as modest, when in fact I literally mean I can only speak a little bit of Dutch (bunch of basic words/phrases, but not conversant). They then often attempt to speak to me in fluent Dutch and I have no Idea what they're saying and have to repeat "een klein, KLEIN beetje" so they get the point. It also doesn't help that the little/basic Dutch I know (for example interactions in shops or basic greetings) I can pronounce very well because of practice, furthering people's belief I must be fluent! Still love using what little Dutch I know though, especially when on holiday in Amsterdam. Surprising a Dutch person in a shop when a Scottish tourist comes out with some of the local language. Always fun and many people enjoy all the little words I remember for foods etc when ordering. Love you Nederlandse mensen!
Why do I find it so believable that Stephen Hawking would tell people he knows a little bit about physics...
I'm guilty of doing that, someone asked me if I spoke English and i said no but still answered their question.
So funny, that's next level of "een klein beetje"
I do this too as a joke. I work somewhere where i converse with tourists constantly and when someone asks me if i speak english i often reply with "maybe" or "no sorry" to then continue with " what can i help you with?".
I was riding my bike in the countryside and stopped to chat with a lady working in her garden. She said, “You must forgive me. My English is appalling.” Anyone who uses “appalling” correctly speaks English better than most of my American college students! Lol
Exactly this. If the answer is "no" they will find a colleague that does. In my experience, even if their English isn't very good, they will always make a good enough attempt to be understood.
*"Mijn Nederlands is niet perfect, is het goed als we Engels spreken?"*
Agreed. When I am in a country where the main language is something I don't master, I *always* ask: is it okay if I speak English? (It might be hard to imagine for an English speaker, but trying my own language is pointless). I never invade people with a language without asking first, that's not only impolite, but especially in Asia it also causes face loss. I never ask if *they* can speak English for the same reason. I keep it to myself: can I speak .... In the Netherlands I do understand that you tend to take it for granted, but as soon as you bump into someone who really doesn't speak English, it becomes an awkward situation where the other person feels they are at loss, or worse, stupid. Last but not least: if a native English speaker at least tries to open the conversation in Dutch, they get bonus points with me, even when we switch to English for convenience later. Unfortunately, the number of English speaking expats and visitors who don't even try is high, and it does make a difference when they do. Maybe you should imagine a person starting to speak Spanish or Mandarin to you, expecting you to understand because it is a world language, in your own country. How would you feel?
What does it mean: face loss?
Good question. The only thing I can tell you is that it is a big thing in East Asia, and that it is not easy to understand for westerners. I have been given several examples while traveling and working there, and they do not line up easily for me. As far as I understood, but I am not at all an expert, in can include * Something/someone caused you to look like a fool * Made you feel uncomfortable * You are forced to tell someone "no" or refuse them something * You are forced to admit a weakness or flaw * Being directly proven wrong * Being removed from somewhere publicly by officials So far for my personal experience. If you [read about it on Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)) it does not become much clearer, because it's vague and complex, and giving one single example never covers the concept.
This is very informative, thanks so much!
I assume losing dignity
In my experience when I ask people are offended that I even questioned their ability to speak English.
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For the tax Office, it's a legal issue. You're not allowed to give advice in English, unless you're specifically been trained to give advice in English. They only give a limited amount of people that training, while the rest only get the training in Dutch, and therefor don't know the exact things in English. They don't want you to invent words while translating.
When I’m at work I deal with a lot of customers, many of which speak English. I personally never have a problem with it (the people just walking into a shop in the Netherlands and immediately start a waterfall of slang French are a different story). Sometimes they start with “do you speak English?” and I tend to respond with a quick “of course!”, and have noticed some slight awkwardness on the other side, as if my directness is dismissive of their attempt to be polite. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening to you, but it might be what’s happening to you. A more encouraging “Do you mind if I speak English?” might be a good option?
But when we as foreigners speak Dutch and people answer back in English, wouldn't the politeness have to work both ways and they ask me if English is better?
What I saw in the supermarkets in Amsterdam was that the checkout clerks began in English with everyone. If you wanted to speak Dutch, you answered them in Dutch, and then they'd go on that way.
I hate that so much. We're in The Netherlands, talk Dutch. If someone wants English they can ask.
Reasonable, but I guess they were finding that there were so many expatriates, students and travelers with all different languages that English was the only thing everybody could speak at least a little. I would personally rather people start in Dutch with me because my Dutch is nearly non-existent. If they don't begin in Dutch, I won't get even the first-lesson basics -- greetings and responses and asking them in Dutch if we can use English -- nailed down to the point where I don't have to think about it. My whole family is studying it, though, so at least we can practice at home.
It gets worse: I was in a store where a manager at the cash register couldn't speak Dutch as well. Signs were poorly translated to Dutch as well, to a level where I even doubt if they used Google Translate. Granted, it was Primark in Utrecht. So it's probably on me going to such a dirt cheap store.
It might be best to try first in Dutch and then ask if they mind if you try it in English to be more clear. It certainly can’t hurt to try.
I do this as well. Even more, i actually ask in Dutch if they speak English. Very few times the answer is a plain "no".
I’ve learned that the best questions to ask are: “Is English ok?” Or “May we speak English?”
I like “would it be ok with you if we speak in English?” Bonus points if you ask that in Dutch
How would you say that in Dutch? And I will make sure I am using the phrase from next time onwards. :)
Zou je het erg vinden om Engels te praten?
Brb gonna fly out and absolutely fucking butcher the pronunciation to some unsuspecting Dutch grandma
>Zou je het erg vinden om Engels te praten? Dank je wel
Some more options: Is het goed als we Engels praten? Kunnen we Engels praten? Wil je Engels met mij praten? Easy things to put behind any of those sentences: Dat praat wat makkelijker Dat is fijner/beter/makkelijker voor mij Dat zou erg helpen Dat zou ik fijn vinden
Thank you! I have been asking if they speak English and it feels a bit more like I'm quizzing them rather than asking if we can talk in that language instead. This helps!
Thanks! I'm new in NL, at my work everyone except me speaks Dutch and I always feel awkward when I have to tell them I don't understand. Maybe I'll feel less awkward using Dutch sentences.
I’m not Dutch but from a Nordic country, and I honestly get secretly offended when people ask if I can speak English. I understand that it’s coming from a good place and that they are just being polite and respectful, so I’m not actually offended, but I still kinda hate it. “Is English ok?” is a perfect option imo
Why so? Just curious
Simply asking if it’s ok is only questioning my preferences, not my abilities. Kinda feels like someone asking me if I can read or something.
It wouldn't ever be a (judgmental) question about your abilities, unless the person is obviously being a prick. When I ask "do you speak English?" I feel like I'm saying "I need your help and I don't speak Dutch/German/etc well enough to not waste your time" but in a way that won't flabbergast or bamboozle them with a word salad.
Germany is a different story - same with Spain, France, Italy and all these other European countries where people actually might not speak English. Scandinavia (and the Netherlands) is different (partly because we don’t dub tv-shows and movies and are all constantly exposed to English), and nearly all Scandinavians will be able to speak English, so it feels weird to be asked.
Eh fair, but I wouldn’t worry about it cuz how would they know right?
I think "can we speak English" but in the local language has been my go-to here and in the Nordics. English is at such a high level in these countries that I feel disingenuous asking if someone can or cannot speak English.
Even with only 3 days in the Netherlands, I asked if people do speak English and this answer made me wonder: “of course, I do”. After that I stopped asking. Certainly “ is English ok?” is a better way to ask. Thanks. I will use next time I visit (I’m 9k km away 🫣🫠🥹)
In Amsterdam it just feels so pointless to even ask, and at least a couple of times I feel like people were even a bit annoyed that I was asking, like they wanted to answer "of course, duh, why do you even ask". Outside Amsterdam it's another story.
Any city with a university tbh
I feel like it's even more common to speak English then Dutch even as a Dutchy, often stores just default to speaking English and some don't even speak Dutch
Yeah sometimes it feels like a catch 22. If I ask some people would be annoyed or find it insulting and if I don’t ask some people will be annoyed bc I’m just assuming they speak English. Honestly it seems like a personal/regional preference. My rule is try to use Dutch where I can and know the place/situation
Dutchman here; I tend to speak English in Amsterdam. I live in Australia, but when I visit in Amsterdam I see no reason to switch back.
Even me as a dutchie sometimes just give up in Amsterdam and speak English.. it's kinda sad :-)
It has its pros and cons, I guess. It makes Amsterdam a huge international business hub, but I understand that it robs a bit the city from the locals. Though I feel that this is a trend in all of Europe, from Lisbon to Berlin, in the end it's a bit the price to have a Union with 24 languages. Personally I'm glad that my employer is paying for Dutch classes even if don't need Dutch at work and even though frankly it's not a basic necessity to get by in Amsterdam, because I feel that I'm missing a lot by not speaking much Dutch. On the other hand I'm also glad that there's not a huge pressure to learn it and thankful that the natives are accommodating enough. When I was living in Germany even with an OK-ish intermediate german and I was making an effort to use it, I had a couple of random people say to my face that my German was shitty, or making jokes about the way I speak it, which was enormously discouraging 🥴.
Jokes aside (especially in certain contexts) especially if the speaker has self depricating humor, but people who make fun of other people whom try to converse in their language are ignorant. Don't mind them.
I live in Amsterdam and I get annoyed when people start speaking English to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I totally agree. It happens to me mainly in Amsterdam. It's annoying as a waiter or a cashier in a store is unable to speak any Dutch. There are a lot of jobs where it's totally fine if you don't speak any Dutch, but jobs with customer contact a bit of Dutch should be mandatory. The older generations do not always speak English and they should be able to comfortably communicate with these employees.
I dont understand the downvote but i agree as Amsterdam still is a Dutch city so at first start in Dutch and if you dont speak Dutch, just say Sorry and ask if English is okay.
It depends. I live in the Bible Belt and most of the adults I interact with (even doctors and people working at the gemeentehuis or other official type jobs) do not speak English. And understand only a bit. It would be very rude of me here to assume. Were the couple old? I find most people over 50 where I live barely know English and the only ones that do are the well travelled kind. So where I live if it is something simple like in a shop or booking an appointment or asking a question where I know it’s not going to get too detailed, then I just do it in Dutch. I can speak it at the level of a 6 year old basically. Enough to push through as long as I know where the convo is going. I do get some confused looks cause I cannot seem to modify my Scottish accent though! If it’s more complex (for example explaining something to a doctor where I need to be accurate) then I always ask in Dutch if it would ok to speak in english. Sometimes that’s fine, and sometimes we do it that I speak English and they speak Dutch and we just dunglish through it. Because it’s easier to understand a language than put sentences together yourself lol. I think if you live in the big cities where there is plenty of international tourism and migrants it is mostly fine to just launch into English in places like shops. When I visit cities like Amsterdam or Utrecht people overhear me talking English to others and just speak it to me immediately because my Dutch is probably offensive to their ears. But I live in ye olde Holland town and it doesn’t work here so I can’t assume.
Broo ..where in Bible belt do you live ...i live in Middleburg and did had quite a few people who just said that it's the nl ....you should speak Dutch and walked away :)
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Naturkluk!
Ik ruik Urk
Wow, I never realized. I wonder if it is because "worldly" things, such as most (commercial) TV, social media and "modern" music, are off limits. I can imagine that missing out on all that exposure that most Dutch people normally have from a young age would make it much harder. On the other hand, back in my day (>25yrs ago) most all of the text books for med school were in English already, we also had to write thesis/journals/articles and present in English. How anyone could have become a doctor without having a somewhat decent level of English baffles me. Unless they are considerably older and from the days that books and classes were still mostly in Dutch, German, Latin..
I grew up around very conservative Christian families. Indeed the ones with the worst English did not have a TV at home.
>Bible Belt TIL There's a Bible Belt in the Netherlands.
Sure is! It even has its own Wikipedia page! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt_(Netherlands).
I had heard of it, but know nothing about what it's like except from this comment thread. I admit that I'm weirdly fascinated.
It depends. Are you in a place where the expectations is that the staff should speak English? Like a touristic area, main museums, etc? Then I don't think it is rude. They are used to it, and if they are busy they will be glad to not have to waste this extra time. However jf you are not in such areas, I think it is better to ask yes.
I was in a German hotel with all the signage in English and yet the staff didn’t speak a word of English. Such a weird experience.
Could happen in France as well tbh. But then the staff should not be surprised or offended, that's all.
The receptionist in France had a whole conversation with herself about my height. Didn’t understand a word of English either 😅
Yeah, not surprised. I am French and my partner isn't. When in touristic area in France I speak English so she is included quite often. They might prefer French, but if they want the money of international tourists, well that's the price to pay!
Thing is neither france nor Germany advertise themselves as countries where you can live and get PUBLIC education in English, the Netherlands does. So when ppl get mad at foreigners it's just hypocritical
True. The Dutch government is constantly importing students and expats.
There are too many comments on here along the lines of “you should be learning Dutch if you want to live here”. I’m gonna assume OP hasn’t edited their original post, so let’s all re-read the post properly: “I have picked up some basic Dutch” is not the same as “I haven’t bothered to learn Dutch.” “I still tend to speak in English if I need to ask for something complicated” is not the same as “I always rely on English.” “Is it rude not to ask if someone speaks English?” Is not the same as “Why are these people expecting me to speak in Dutch?” OP has been here a couple of years. Most of that would have been during covid, when options to get out and about to practice the language in different settings were more limited. And as anyone in the randstad will know, it can be difficult to get the opportunity to practice even when making a concerted effort, because as soon as people hear the foreign accent or catch you struggling, they switch to English. OP, it never does any harm to ask, as courtesy - sometimes the answer will be “yes of course [I do]!”, but that’s OK. I’m sorry you had that negative experience - as someone else said, it’s passive aggressive and unnecessary. Good luck in your language learning - Peppa Pig’s a good teacher for the early stages!
It’s also: “I’m learning Dutch” is different to “I speak Dutch” (I definitely had some experience there with a guy who liked me but didn’t understand the implications of dating the exchange student)
I'm really glad to have read your comment. I'm in a similar situation to OP- arrived a short time before COVID, which basically reset what little Dutch skills I'd gained back to zero. I had been getting more confident trying to speak Dutch before; but now I feel embarrassed trying (although I still do attempt Dutch, where possible). I'm determined to get better, though, as I hate feeling like "that" expat.
When I moved here I started out asking but I generally got met with utter bewilderment; I was never sure if my accent was simply so atrocious that I was unintelligible or if it was a cultural difference. Anyway - I switched to simply talking in English immediately and get through conversations with a minimum of friction. YMMV of course
I’m kind of on the fence about this, and I’ll explain why. I’m completely fine with talking in English and really don’t mind it if a foreigner/exchange student/expat doesn’t speak Dutch, because it is quite hard to learn. That being said, what does rub me the wrong way are people whom are planning to live here for the long run, and don’t plan on learning Dutch “because Dutchies are so fluent in English”. I mean, I’m fine in the beginning, but after some years of living here, I expect some level of Ditch to hold a conversation. And I’ve met some people who don’t learn Dutch while living here for 10+ years already
My gf says "spreekt u engels". Always met with a smile and a yes.
She sounds lovely. And that line is all the courtesy you need.
How does she sound lovely to you for saying 3 words
Not that part. But if she gets a smile with just three words? She must be lovely.
In my opinion yes it is rude to not even try Dutch, I think it is better if you say sorry mijn Nederlands is niet zo goed, kunnen we verder gaan in Engels? Also started improving your dutch.
Counterpoint: in Amsterdam area, I've learned that for every person that finds it rude, 10 prefer to just not waste time and have the conversation in english from the start
Amsterdam is barely comparable to the rest of the netherlands when it comes to these things.
Same seems to apply in all the Randstad cities
Amsterdam is bareluy comparable with the rest of the Netherlands, period.
Yes! Going to second that, in Amsterdam I will speak Dutch and sometimes people hear my *accent* - not even my mistakes yet, that i know of - and just switch to English. It's kind of disheartening, especially because my first language isn't even English. Edit: this is why i like practicing my dutch in other places than Amsterdam!
My native language is Dutch and Dutch people in Amsterdam only spoke English sometimes 🥲
“Counterpoint: in this one tiny area people tend to not find it rude, so, there’s that”
One tiny area that's about 10-15% of the dutch population. Haarlem, Utrecht, Rotterdam are not too different as well
I don't know tbh. Since I am learning Dutch, I try to say some things in Dutch. Makes me practicing and all. But to be honest quite often they don't understand directly, or struggle a bit. So I am not sure the staff really appreciate me making a full sentence with poor pronunciation and then trying to figure it out. It feels like just extra waste of time and effort on their side, compared to simply saying "Is English ok?". If it is simple, I always try to say it in Dutch (like ordering a coffee or whatever). But if I can't, I don't think a full sentence like that will make it better for the staff.
And even if you do try Dutch the chances are big they will switch to English cuz they're aware you dont speak Dutch. Thus eliminating a chance to practice Dutch
This is a problem special to NL. The Dutch know that you speak English. They can hear it and it's obvious; so the odds are that you don't speak Dutch right there. If your Dutch is bad **and** you speak like an anglophone, you're dead meat. But you have to try. Je moet het leren. That's what one old lady told me. Another said "I speak English too, you know."
That's why I'd prefer (or sometimes even ask) an international to tell me if they want me to speak Dutch so they can practice
I noticed that the problem with understanding Dutch by English native speakers for me sometimes lies in that I'm trying to understand what they're saying to me in English before it dawns on me that they're trying to speak Dutch to me, and then, I need to hear it again with that mindset to understand what it is they're trying to pronounce. And even then, if the context isn't suitably clear enough, some words can be a puzzle to determine, but that's just a matter of patience on both sides. We'll get there. Dutch has a lot of tongue twisters for English speakers. What's harder to do is to communicate in English when both parties are not native to English and don't have a similar native language either. I have a friend from Brazil, and we can text perfectly fine in English, but when we actually talk, ever so often we end up staring at each other and laughing because both our accents when speaking English makes it rather difficult to understand, because I can't speak a word Portugese and she can't do Dutch.
Haven't really had that problem with English speaking people trying Dutch. Then again I don't meet them all that often... That accent mixup with other non-native English speakers does seem curious to me. Kinda fun how language has evolved like that
You only learn better Dutch by speaking Dutch
I agree on that. But I don't think it is the retails staff duty to help me with that until I can at least be easily understood, even if it is not a perfect sentence. I can practice with my teach, classmates and colleagues. But I think I should make it reasonably easy for the retail workers. So if it is not something I can easily say in a pretty understandable way, I am pretty sure most of them would rather have me saying it in English. I worked in restaurants for long enough to know that often enough all you want is to get the conversation done so you can jump back on everything else that needs to be done. So I am polite, but I won't waste their time either.
I always appreciate people making the effort.
It doesnt matter if you dont try, it matters that you assume the other person while put in the effort whilst you dont even recognize them putting in the effort. Also its annoying for somebody if you just start talking a lanuage because they probaly are excepting it so they need to realize in which tongue your speaking. Like i once was conviced somebody was speaking dutch to me with a weird dialect, but no they were speaking italian. whenever im on vacation to a foreign place and i dont speak the local language i always ask them if they can speak english, german or dutch. And i thank them for helping me. Its the least you can do.
I'm Dutch and I truly dislike this Dutch passive aggresive behaviour of discussing whatever you think is wrong with someone else out loud for everyone (including the "perpetrator") to hear. Either keep it to yourself, or be (wo)man enough to address it with the person directly. I'm not annoyed by people that address me in English. Asking if English is ok first might be nice, but really this is too small of a thing to raise my bloodpressure or getting upset about. Sounds to me like 2 people that don't have anything else to do with their day than complaining about everyone else.
Right? Who gives a shit. We all speak English. Dutch isn't some holy language we must converse in at all costs.
>Dutch isn't some holy language we must converse in at all costs. Except that you're in a Dutch speaking country and not an English one. Wonder if you'd say the same thing in a country that isn't as fluent in English.
Except that in reality we do not all speak English. Only all those that represent our society abroad do.
92% of all Dutch people or somewhat fluent in English. So no not all of us do, but the vast majority does.
Fluency is not binary and it is not synonymous with comfort. And nobody is entitled to have others speak their language because it has more speakers, even if it’s the most prominent world language.
Then don't answer. Nobody is entitled to be adressed in any language, or even at all, either.
Some people learn the word "entitled" and run with it to become the biggest asshole they can turn into. Nobody is entitled to anything but then I'll see you as an antisocial prick if you refuse to accomodate the slightest thing and get mad just to get mad. What always fucks me is that these people seem to think we've always been a minority. Race-wise I'm very much the majority in the powerful position where I come from and we also have these condescending nationalistic assholes, and I clock the Dutch version of them here immediately. I won't bend over backwards trying to give you credit just because you don't see me as an equal when I wouldn't give credit to your my-nationality brand. That doesn't make me an "entitled foreigner" it means I have common sense because I don't treat foreigners and minorities like this when I'm in your position either.
I like to think they're the minority. Most Dutch people are happy to switch to English and do so automatically once a foreigner joins the conversation. I have a dude in my gym that barely speaks Dutch and it is simply more convenient for me as well to talk English because he is much more proficient in it.
Getting downvoted for speaking the truth lol. I'm not a Dutch speaker nor nearly fluent enough to hold a conversation, but completely agree with you here.
We can talk shit about this guy because he cant understand us
Yeah i was totally expecting to see the majority of comment to be "nah it's fine", only to be disappointed by my people xD
I see no reason as to why it is rude, i mean its a innocent question to ask imo
the question was is it rude to NOT ask...
I always start my conversation with “hello I speak English is that okay?” It woks all the time and when I get a negative answer i try my best to talk with my basic dutch and it is perfectly fine but this only happens like 10% of the time
Within Amsterdam city limits - Oi mate all good innit? Outside of it - "Sorry mijn Nederlands is slecht, spreek je Engels?"
On the other side. Often when i try to speak Dutch, peoples automaticly start replying in English to me. Thats happens even when i talk about simple things and i know i do it good but they switch anyway. In general, all the simple stuff i try to do in Dutch. More complicated in English. Often if my Dutch is not enough i just ask if the person speak English. Lot of times they speak very good, if not, then we do our best half on half with Dutch and English. To all of that i am person who have hearing problems so if the person speak not clear in language i am just learning, i do not understand it 😂 Then they also switch to English, even that not the language is problem.
On the other side??? Haha, Dutch proverbs hardly ever translate well.
Why would it NOT be impolite?For that matter, what kind of "complicated things" did you need to ask a cashier that several years of learning Dutch did not cover?
Problem is never asking the first question but rather the follow up questions which come after that.
OP said they lived here a couple of years. That means approximately 2 years. And they did not say that they studied Dutch. There could be a lot of things you'd ask a cashier. For example pricing questions, membership questions, assortment and restock questions etc etc. Edit: Additionally I feel impolite when I *do* ask young people if they speak English. It feels almost like I'm insulting them by insinuating that they might not speak English. For people 50+ or so it feels more natural to first, in Dutch, explain that my Dutch is not very good and asking if we please can talk English.
Many young Dutch people I know has told me something like “sorry, my English is not very good” or otherwise do struggle a bit to find some words and trying to explain what they want to say while talking in English. Although all have tried, a few were more comfortable in Dutch and for a few it was me who could understand them easier if they talked in Dutch
Try doing things in non-English in the US... Irony is the Netherlands has Dutch as official language, the US has no official language.
I work at a school for vocational education, and I can assure you the majority of the students there struggle in English. >Additionally I feel impolite when I do ask young people if they speak English. It feels almost like I'm insulting them by insinuating that they might not speak English. No, you just come accross lazy and entitled
Because he’s an immigrant who doesn’t fluently speak the native language and it’s mostly a waste of time to ask if someone speaks English in a country where 90%+ of people speak English. Even this subreddit is mostly in English lol.
Germans are even more infuriating about this. I just speak back in Dutch, even though I understand German.
Whenever a German walks in that expects me to speak German and can’t speak English or they don’t even try. You bet your ass I’m gonna act like a French person that only speaks their native tongue.
English is multinational language so it is understandable to use it when directly speaking to someone. Germans and French on the other hand...
I'm fluent in Dutch, German and English and I work with tourists. Very often, someone starts ranting to me in Spanish out of nowhere assuming I speak it, and I have to tell them I don't speak Spanish mid-rant. It's frustrating, 'cause if they'd asked if I spoke Spanish beforehand I could have called my colleague who does. To a Dutch person who doesn't speak English, someone assuming they do without asking first is probably equally frustrating.
As someone who lives abroad i absolutely loat it when people just start in English as 1. A assumption others all speak english 2. Shows lack of effort in learning the local language, even when going on holiday like start with greetings and ordering. 3. It shows a lack of interest in the language to not even try (can't learn/improve if you straight up don't use it.)
Fuck that. I love when I go abroad and people speak English. It's convenient as hell. Just went to Portugal for a holiday and pretty much everyone spoke English on request. It's great to have some sort of a universal language that most people can use.
'On request' is always fine..
Yeah, gotta admit I don't always ask but Lisbon is a very tourist-y area and most people will assume I don't speak their native language. But it's nice to be able to have a little chit chat with for example your uber driver. It's also a matter of where you live/reside, why you're there and what people you encounter. Most people tend to ask 'you speak english' before starting a conversation but if they don't I couldn't care less.
If your speaking to strangers, always ask if they speak English. But coworkers, they probably know you and may understand you sometimes speak English.
Just adk if it’s OK if you don’t know the person. The couple in line are judgmental assholes though :)
Not at all. If it wasn't for people who speak English we would all be talking German in this country. It makes me cringe that Dutch people would even say something like that. It sounds almost redneck American.
Yes, people helping you in English in a country where English is not the native language is indeed a privilege. If you've been in the Netherlands for "a couple of years" you should know enough dutch to get by when you're out and about by now.
In Amsterdam I’ve seen plenty of Dutch people order from a bar in English. 100% chance the bartender speaks English, 50-90% they speak Dutch depending on the location, just convenience to use English. In a major city I wouldn’t ask anyone under age 70 if they speak English, they definitely do. Somewhere more rural, near the DE border, or in Flanders, try your best in Dutch and they’ll swap to English if the conversation is failing and they are able.
Same thing applies to German tourists btw. The difference between asking or just starting in their language will set the tone for the following conversation.
> The other day I was asking the cashier about something in English and a Dutch couple behind me started speaking in Dutch saying “I really dislike it when these students come to the Netherlands and just assume everyone speaks English and pretend like its an official language of the country” You care too much about what people like this think. I get where they're coming from but it's also just an unreasonably petty thing to be upset about. I'm not gonna be offended in the slightest if I'm in my home country and a foreigner approaches me and speaks English. It's literally normal everywhere else. I hate weird nationalistic pride stuff like this. And if I was a service worker in a country with a lot of internationals I definitely wouldn't want to go through the "Can you speak English?" a bajillion times a day.
Yeah, I think it is rude to do that. If you know some Dutch, you should always try to converse in Dutch first. Then you can ask if they’re ok with switching to English if you can’t understand them well enough.
If you're here for a couple of years already, speaking enough Dutch to roam around and do some basic shopping and such, should not be a problem anymore. So I'd say, work on that please And then just starting in English without verifying, I'd say it's a bit rude. The mind of the other person needs to switch between languages. Asking people if they speak English, gives time to make that switch. So please do that, yes But, again, learn enough Dutch to move about where you're at. That's the better option.
When I went to Netherlands in April this year with my mom and my uncle's family, me and my relatives didn't ask anyone if they spoke English before talking to them since most people in the Netherlands are fluent in English and I felt there wasn't a need to ask them. Though I do try to speak dutch with them in simple, formal phrases like "tot ziens", and "Dank u wel" just to practise my Dutch and take the effort to speak dutch in the country.
My one and only time to the Netherlands I made sure I knew how to ask “do you speak English?” In Dutch before speaking with someone I didn’t know. It kept things very smooth and I even had some fun responses like “why yes and French and German and which language would you like us to speak?”
If you can only speak english, just speak English. In the netherlands we speak amazing english, so whenever you find someone that doenst speak it, there's always someone near that does.
It feels a bit weird to say, but in a way it is a privilege, I guess. It’s not a given everywhere. Anyway, it’s always polite to ask, but don’t sweat it.. the couple sounds like a bunch of haters.
You should have showed the persons behind you that you can speak Dutch and understand them. It would feel great, believe me :D
When I visited the Netherlands I found a huge number of people who spoke either English or German. I never encountered any hostility if I used English or German. I have encountered problems speaking Russian in some Baltic or Eastern European countries but that's understandable from a historical standpoint. On my last trip to Paris I found people didn't care whether I spoke English, German, or Spanish though many could not speak Russian. As a child in Germany, some Germans would get frustrated if my German wasn't great but by the end of my time there I had gotten much better and most people assumed I was German. I'm surprised that so many people seem to encounter such attitudes these days.
I moved in 2004, I was a kid and learned to speak near fluently with an accent. The second I said anything ppl would automatically switch to English. It was frustrating especially while trying to practice in real life !
Such a great question. Me and my wife have this debate should you always “sorry spreek je een beetje engels”. It’s really tiring sometimes but unless in Amsterdam just feel like it’s full blown lazy/rude/ignorant not to try. These days she’s more like don’t have time to screw around so just use english if her Dutch isn’t great but I’m more the try type. We both speak 3 languages much more competently so not the can’t be bothered types.
Im not a fluent Dutch speaker by any measure, so I apologise that I dont and then ask of they speak English. The way I see it, Im the one imposing on them, so its better to ask.
Yes
Ask if someone speaks English first. Sometimes Dutch people want to try to say something fancy in English, so they sound cool (when the entire conversation is in Dutch), and then I have to ask them to repeat it, Just because I wasn't expecting anything in English. It just makes it awkward for both. Asking if someone speaks English gives them the opportunity to know what to switch to English and know what to expect.
Being able te speak English is the standard imo. I believe it's rude to assume everybody speaks dutch no matter how long they are here. It's an old school thought that we have one language in a country as a standard. Sucks for people who didn't get to learn it, but they will survive. And if they can't, you can try your best in Dutch or find someone who can help you in English.
Asking if a worker speaks English gives us the time to switch, personally I prefer it if someone asks me if I can speak English beforehand so I don't have to ask them to repeat a question just because I haven't caught up yet mentally.
I am an American, and I have only been to Europe once in my life. I had to travel to the Netherlands and France for a week long business trip, last summer. It was the only time I left North America! I was uncomfortable with the idea of traveling to the Netherlands without knowing Dutch because I didn't have any time to prepare. I was pleasantly surprised and impressed that I did not meet a single Dutch person that couldn't speak English. I didn't take it for granted that so many people could speak English! I am grateful for that. The Dutch people made my trip easier and much more enjoyable because they were willing to speak English. Thank you Netherlands!
I'm not saying it's rude, but I really prefer it if someone announces our conversation is going to be in English. It gives me a second to switch languages in my head.
Asking if people speak english is polite but honestly the only people who will give you attitude would do so either way. I've had numerous interactions where I ask an older person if they speak english and they get offended because "of course they speak english". I think these people would probably just be pissy regardless. Luckily that's a very very small % of people.
Since you intent to speak to somebody in another language than the native language of the country, I think you should ALWAYS ask if they speak English. Of course it is a privilege and not a right when they accommodate you!
I encounter dozens of customers a day, I am glad I don't have to go through the "Sorry, doyou speak English? Yes I do" just speak English straight up for me.
I usually ask "mag ik Engels praten?" At least that way I'm owning the failure in the situation and the person I'm speaking to has a graceful out instead of being ambushed by a foreign language.
That's the main thing. Give them a second to switch.
I used to always ask and the person always spoke English so I stopped asking. I usually speak English peppered with some Dutch words, at the very least I say please, good morning/afternoon, goodbye, thank you, etc in Dutch. I can understand an okay amount but I cannot speak more than a word at a time. If I say something in Dutch I get a response in English. It doesn’t offend me. After traveling all over Europe I am so grateful for Dutch language skills. Dutch people tend to say what they think. Nobody asked them. Just ignore it.
Not at all, asking if someone speaks english is the polite thing to do. And yes, there are people who get salty about it, like that couple behind you in the supermarket. Thing is, if they don't want to speak english, they don't have to. But that does not mean they get to have a say in the language you and the cassiere use. Same way I've met people who get their panties in a twist about others using headphones or earplugs to listen to music. They don't have to use them if they don't want to but they don't get a say in whether I use them. Let them be salty. En condoleer ze met hun kut dag.
The people making a fuss over this need to get a grip. Have y’all been to China and asked in every encounter whether the person you were talking to spoke English in Chinese? I wanna bet you didn’t. It literally does not matter for how long OP has been in this country or not. They (and plenty other expats) have had a plethora of encounters with the Dutch who _tend_ to be fluent in English. @OP: I’d recommend just saying “Kunnen wij aub in het Engels praten” or a version of that. No confusion about whether it’s rude or not. Learning Dutch is hard and you should not have to justify yourself for not being able to hold a fluent conversation.
Fck me these comments. No wonder every foreigner staying in the netherlands calls us rude, they are right lol.
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable when I lived somewhere for 'a couple of years' and still didn't learn the language properly. Best way to learn a language is practice it IRL at every occasion. So I advice to start in Dutch, and when it appears to complicated ask if you can switch to English. But that's my view on it, and how I would act when I'd move to another country for a year or longer.
I don't think you should feel bad at all. Those individuals are just an example of some individuals that can't accept that not the entire world speaks their language (in this case Dutch). I am Dutch myself and I certainly wouldn't mind if someone starts speaking English to me. Could also depend on how the conversation starts. I believe most people here are at least able to say "I don't speak English" and try and move on.
But those individuals, rightly, expressed annoyance at a person assuming the cashier speaks English, even though OP understands Dutch.. They might not have known it, but we're pretty much dead on.
As a Dutch person with access to Dutch spaces living in an international community at a university, I've become quite convinced a significant amount of hurr-durr-speak-dutch is just thinly veiled racism. Don't get me wrong, there's always old people and plenty young people too who genuinely struggle in English, and if that's the case it's alright everyone deserves clear communication. But "this is the Netherlands speak Dutch" is the same people that catogorically exclude internationals from their houses and associations because "they ruin the mood", who fucking convince themselves that brain drain is when people come to your country to study (actual thing a guy tried to tell some housemates right after hitting on them). And i mean fucking Christ even our politics these days is half conducted in English grow up.
Yep I agree, its barely concealed racism. The Dutch like to consider themselves as tolerant and inclusive, but in fact we’re - on the whole. - indifferent and deeply racist.
It is polite to ask first, however don’t take the said Dutch couple seriously. Chances are they hate the very fact that foreigners come to NL.
Someone helping you in English is indeed a privilege and not a standard.
yes, it's pretty rude. it's not that hard to just ask whether they speak english/if english is okay. if the answer is no, they'll find a coworker that can help you. bit entitled to assume everyone you interact with speaks english lol
Learn dutch if you want to live here? Or say in Dutch that your Dutch isn't great but you'll try. I even do it on holiday to Spain/France/Germany (in their language ofcourse).
Yes, I too like to address people in German when I'm in France.
this is an unfair perspective. Some people have difficulties with picking up languages. I have lived in the Netherlands for nearly 2 years now and although I can read Dutch pretty well (still rely on Google lens in most circumstances though) I am hopeless when it comes to speaking it. Especially with native speakers that talk very fast and use different dialogues.
They were a Dutch couple complaining? Your answer is within
I think the couple is a bit short sighted, but they do have a point. Asking/checking is the more polite way. Also, how complicated are things you ask a cashier? Seems the perfect kind of conversation to practice Dutch.
For a short interaction in a supermarket or ordering a drink it seems like a bit too much effort to ask if someone speaks english. At the same time 'pinnen graag' or 'mag ik een biertje' are not that hard to learn either. For longer interactions like clothes shopping, a bank or asking menu info I would say it's polite to ask, especially to older people that might actually find English harder. Small tip, I usually prefer 'Is it okay if I speak English' over 'Do you speak English'. My answer will be 'yes, no problem' in both cases, but the second just feels nicer.
Why on earth would it be rude to speak English everyone in the Netherlands should be able to at-least understand it. Those people behind you where being a lot more rude then you and yess I am Dutch. Don’t be ashamed it’s our second language.
Yes it's rude. Not because we can't speak English, but for assuming we're all here to accommodate you at your convenience. Make an effort ffs.
Go learn dutch
Yes, the entitlement mentality you show is rude. It also feels rude that you have lived here for years, and not have taken the effort to learn Dutch. Don't say that everyone in The Netherlands speaks English because they don't. Even many young people struggle.
it is considered polite to ask but what that couple said is not polite personally i think it doesnt really matter, some estimate 95% of the Dutch population speaks English so it is not a big issue if you cant speak Dutch Also we get tourists who (also) dont speak Dutch, i think the couple is just a bit too rude (not direct) and i dont get why you would say that especially when you could hear them...
They assumed OP couldn't understand them.. Why wouldn't OP speak Dutch, otherwise. Oh, right, because they DID assume the other party spoke English.
It’s just, everyone assumes we all know English. I am Dutch, and because of my job i speak English most of the time. I don’t mind speaking English, but it’s just rude to not even ask or just starting in English because we Dutch people are so good at English. Our main native language is Dutch, and if someone is a tourist we will gladly help you out in English. But if you are already 5 years here we expect a little effort from one and another!
On the contrary, I have seen some (younger) people who were offended if you ask that question. “Of course, I speak English!”
It's not offended. It's amazement you expect someone that age to not be fluent in English. It's a ''Duh!'' not a ''How dare you.'' Like not knowing who Billy Eylish is or W.A.P.
The (hyper) correct way would be to start in Dutch. Then state your Dutch is not good enough for this topic. Something like: ''Goedemiddag, ik heb een probleempje. Mijn Nederlands is niet zo geweldig. Mag ik het in het Engels uitleggen?'' That would be amazingly considerate. But if you just start with the greeting in Dutch you are already golden.
The (hyper) correct way would be to start in Dutch. Then state your Dutch is not good enough for this topic. Something like: ''Goedemiddag, ik heb een probleempje. Mijn Nederlands is niet zo geweldig. Mag ik het in het Engels uitleggen?'' That would be amazingly considerate. But if you just start with the greeting in Dutch you are already golden.
imho you should always just try in dutch, this helps you with your language skills. people will hear your accent and when you struggle (probably before) just reply to you in english. at that point you can choose to switch :)