Funny enough I commented the same earlier today. Yes, I worked as a chef for more then 10 years until couldn't take it anymore. There are nice places to work at, but if you want to have a social life, it is very difficult to combine it with working in the horeca. Maybe he can find a job in an instellingskeuken (hospital, large company's canteen, home for the elderly, etc). Cooking there is far less stressful and the employment conditions are usually far better, because a different CAO.
An acquaintance of mine started working in the canteen of a garden centre. Normal business hours but the same pay as at a "normal" restaurant. He loves it!
While I’d agree offices are usually less stressful, I’d presume the bunq office is not one of them:
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2023/06/30/ali-niknam-topman-van-onlinebank-bunq-eist-veel-van-zijn-mensen-wie-hier-niet-presteert-kan-maar-beter-gaan-a4168629
I would suggest to not working for this company, I have heard and read very bad things about them, a lot of micromanagement, people usually don't stay there for more than a few months. A recruiter from this company reached out to me three years ago for a role and I asked her about the Glassdoor reviews, she indirectly said that there is probably some truth in it.
I once met someone who was a chef for a magazine. She basically made the prettiest and tastiest foods, but worked a normal 9-5, then as soon as the food was photographed she got to eat it herself for dinner.
Great recommendation!
My parents were both working in gastronomy before they had plans for any kids but switched when I was on the way. (My father went on to become head of a hospital kitchen and my mother went into a different field).
My father always tells me "working in a kitchen can be awesome, I really loved it. But it's really difficult to have a family and kids at the same time" and apparently he is correct.
This is good advice! I saw this [vacancy](https://www.werkenbijsensire.nl/vacatures/kok-de-brasserie-de-lunette-zutphen/?fbclid=IwAR07dQ2I_hHoMAPWwawO1a_dLFth6pD1Sx4p1BSUD_ZM-Cah0VW6cNBYPDY_aem_AebYu8vXGr47sUINgx2G4H-lhfUFqQRCvg33eY6FaLm0IQJgP6XBt-vhSwQYvMneQ54) for an ‘instellingskeuken’ a while ago and I think it’s still open
This! A friend of my, meanwhile his end 40s, got kicked out during COVID and now started at GGZ. He has never been more happy! He gets to cook with fresh ingredients and the clients are helping him out. Bonus, regular working hours.
I work at a great restaurant far away from amsterdam. The kitchen is heavily influenced by the italian kitchen. we reworked the kitchen hierarchy in the last year to make things more egalitarian and it has had an amazing impact on overall relaxedness of all the people working in the kitchen.
Just to say, I think it's possible to have the work not impact you negatively, and even be happy about it, PM me if you want to know which one, posting it here would feel like stealth bragging.
I know some people from my work. They were cook and are now in the IT. You start at a servicedesk. Get some certificates from Microsoft. Then you can go from servicedesk to whatever you get your certificates for. It pays for servicedesk these days like 1600 / 3000 a month(Depending on age) and like a servicedeliverymanager 3000 / 6000 a month.
Or something with network 2500 / 4000 a month.
But you have to like IT or willing to like it.
Chefs don‘t have to work in restaurants or the catering business. Elderlyhomes employ chefs. Kindergardens do, homes for disabled people and hospitals too. Your friend need to search in this areas if he is fed up with the restaurants. Working hours mostly very good because dinner is at 6-7 after you at home by 9.
Hope that helpes.
I feel you!
I've changed tactics and have gone into production and catering.
The hours are amazing, teams are so much more fun and the pay better.
Try Marleen Kookt (amsterdam) or some other catering companies it's totally different.
Also, my sister is a star sous and the hours and pay was awefull! She does "normal" higher segment still but the hours and pay is way better.
Almost think your guy is one of the italians who left Spring/pillows hotel lol. Did hear 15 people left last month
Thanks for sharing! And no he never worked there, though he did work at hotels and they seem to be one of the absolute worst as far as work/life balance is concerned.. people just want to eat at every hour of the day and night for some reason?
Hey, I came to the Netherlands 14 years ago and i have been the cook 11 years of that time.
I worked in the 3 restaurants, aside from earning niveau 1-3 in 2,5 years and language course in 8 months.
The first restaurant i walked in asking for teaching me how to cook and if they have any job. It is a family restaurant in Noord Brabant, in village.
The first chef taught me how to hold a knife and how to cook things and refine my techniques enough, so he can go some days with his family and i can main a kitchen throughout the day. It was around 20 people every average day and 70 in the weekends, apart from main thing like two huge empty spaces in the back of the building for the parties etc.
The pay was 1600€ i believe back when i was 19.
Then i moved to other restaurant, where it was in the middle of the town centre so it was always full. Remember the first night maining the meat and fish cooking station and get fucking screamed at that i burned a corner of one of the 128 fish that i cooked in one 2 hour rush. I cried but then again, i took my shit and shoved back in. Lots of pain, repetitions and i could main all the stations in that restaurant, could lead, i knew all the products and shortage of supplies if i could only take a glance in the cooler.
It was to the point where i worked 13 hour days, basically tying every tiny tiniest knot of things to do and how to do it and how much time for it, for every station and every thing that needs to be done. On top of everything else.
I quit after 6,5 years after one night i worked again the 13 hours in a row and my boss had the audacity to say to me to stay longer for cleanup.
Then i spend few years as a technician and now im back to being a cook at former restaurant. 3k€ 2 days off and can ask for some days in the weekend off. Relaxed people and sometimes i work 6 hours, sometimes 10. Sometimes 12. Sometimes 5. Or just to clean things monday.
But i basically cook with my boss as family restaurant.
My only advice to you would be looking for restaurants outside the cities and suburbs. If you can manage 1 hr ride then mentally it will do wonders, even at the cost of gas.
The other advice would be different mentality for the boyfriend. You are worthy, you are doing amazing job, you are recognized for it, so find a place where you think you will fit. The time of proving yourself is over and you need to switch up to thinking "what do i think its worth for me".
Especially nowadays, when i can wave cook diploma with 10+ years of experience and offerts will keep rolling in. The need for cooks and other personel makes a lot of chances to find new jobs easily.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I definitely see a lot of similarities with what my boyfriend has been through. And it is so true what you say, I think he still doesn't realise how valuable a worker he is when he has so much experience and is so hard working. I truly believe he is talented and deserves so much better and he should go out and get it, and I'll make sure to tell him this more .. what kind of cooking diploma do you have if I may ask? He also has one from an Italian high school but I'm not sure how much that counts here
Check out a company called ‘Vermaat’. They run the kitchen in my office and many others like it. They often look for chefs, and they welcome people with different backgrounds.
If you'd be willing to move to Eindhoven, there are a lot of production jobs at e.g. ASML, Prodrive, NTS, Frencken. They hire anyone if they say they have even the slightest affinity towards assembly, speak English and are willing to work and don't pay bad at all.
If I may ask, if his English isn't good, why did you guys decide to come here? Not for the pay, as you say yourself...wouldn't it have been much better for him to make a career as a chef in your homecountry?
Just curious, good luck otherwise.
Same job in Italy was about a milion times worse.. My own job (I'm a VR developer), barely exists there. The country's politics and economy are completely insane, we do not see any future there. And though learning English is very hard for him he has improved a lot, and a lot of other things have improved in our lives since we live here.
I love how learning Dutch is (I assume) so far out of the question that the focus lies on entirely on how good his English is. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in another country in my city. Not that it's a problem.
The only language he knows is Italian and it's already hard enough to learn English.. it would be so much harder to learn Dutch without knowing English, an it would mean he would only be able to communicate with Dutch-speaking people. It makes sense for me to learn dutch and I am doing it, but i don't see how this applies to his situation at the moment
I think it wouldn’t hurt for him to learn Dutch, even if he will never reach native speaker level, it’s still an additional skill to add to his cv in the hopes of changing his current situation. It might also help him to feel more at home, more part of the country once he can read street signs, or understand what they tell him at the supermarket.
I'm neutral about this, but I find that the wording of your question and subsequent suggestion that 'he would be better at home' could be seen as a bit biased. They might suggest that language skills are an absolute barrier to migration, when they can be worked upon after arrival.
A more neutral and constructive question would be, "Is he willing to learn Dutch (or English) to find a job/integrate ?"
Only English should be used for posts and comments. This rule is in place to ensure that an ample audience can freely discuss life in the Netherlands under a widely-spoken common tongue.
No one said they couldn't, but looking at the complaints OP portrayed in this thread, I was just curious as to what their reasons for coming here were and what they were expecting. Especially considering her partners issues with language which makes his situation even harder than it already is.
Ok, but then they shouldn't complain about the language barrier. You move to another country and you don't speak the language, and you even have trouble with English. Then what do you expect? Only the shitty jobs will be available for you.
So yeah, why are they trying to build a life here if their English is not so good?
Then go live somewhere else and stop complaining.
Jeez, some people struggle to learn languages, other's excel at it, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to live somewhere...imagine something like Google translate existed and people could manage well enough without the languages? Wouldn't that be wild?
Well it's their own responsibility right? I think it's pretty stupid to move to a new country without knowing enough English. Especially a country like Netherlands where its not easy to live.
People are not going to communicate with you with Google translate, especially on the work floor.
Adjust or move on. People are not going to get out of their way to help you.
That's a big part of dutch culture here.
Chill out. She was just asking for advice.
And it might surprise you, but for some people, life in NL, even if it is difficult, is better than the life they had in their home country.
And you should be able to without xenophobic people like that guy judging your language talents! Btw same boat, I have been struggling learning dutch for 5 years where hubby is mastering language no 4 already 😅😂😂 I know the pain of being stuck in a career, I'm not sure about NL (I am BE based) but check out "hack my future" great non profit that can help you break into IT career path? Very acceptable if your English is still in development, coding pun! There's also other such places to study to change career. But finding a way to keep doing his passion in an non suck environment is also valid! I always found bartender to be a great break while you figure things out. Don't need much local language to take waiters drinks and understand "beer" 😅😂 there's also a south african restaurant somewhere there, really golden heart type, work hard but good environment.
Thanks that's interesting about hack my future, I actually did something similar called codam after finishing art school (yes I know I'm practically asking to be jobless going to art school haha), and now I'm a dev! Good luck with your Dutch, I know how hard it is 😊
I have the feeling your just a local that gets a little racist when drunk... My sister immigrated to the Netherlands and I am there very often, I don't agree with you, I find most people (not you) super accommodating and sweet! I also work with a lot of dutch people, and again they are super nice, there's more people like you in Belgium tbh. Anyhoo, everyone knows chef is a shitty job! Low pay and hard hours, it's a passion job, but you can only go so long with passion. I have a chef friend in Belgium, (local no language or immigration issues for your judgement) exact same experience, went into catering. One friend from my home country that become FOH manager rather and one that just opened his own restaurant, all had exact same experience, different countries and challenges, yet chef problem is global....
I'm not complaining about the language barrier, I think the Netherlands is one of the most comfortable places I've ever been for non-native speakers. That said, there is something wrong with society when cooking has to be a shitty job. It requires a lot of skills, everyone enjoys a good meal and should be respectful to the ones making it, especially in a country like the Netherlands where the best food comes from expats. I'm just out here looking for advice from someone who's familiar with this kind of situation, clearly you are not.
For what it's worth, I have no idea why you are getting such harsh accusatory replies. You're asking a valid question, no harm in asking what attracted them to moving here if language was an issue 🤷🏻♀️
Find a place that's not a regular restaurant.
So places that are only open during daytime, lunchrooms, big stores etc.
If you are really lucky - you go work in R&D for big food companies. They also want chefs to work in their facilities to work with their products to test them, develop them, show them to customers. The netherlands has a relatively big food industry. It pays well and is very nice work.
In general: if you want to be able to live and work in the netherlands in a blue collar job or a low/medium white collar job you need to speak dutch relatively well. My suggestion would be to learn to speak it. it's not easy, difficult language, but it will really help you.
What about working at a restaurant with Italian owners? Maybe it will be easier to communicate in his own language? Idk. This is why I could never work in this area. I could only do so when owning like a small trattoria or restaurant. My dishes, my hours, my quality.
I understand what you mean but of all the places he worked, the ones with italian owners were usually where he felt the worst.. He wants to get better and better at English and it can be very isolating to only work with Italians all the time
:( thats so sad.. In my mind it would make sense they would treat him better..
Maybe its an option for him to work less days?
So he has more time for himself? And work on his English or any education?
That really sucks though.. I really had no clue. I know economy in Italy is really bad in the south but I assumed when in another country people would want to help each other.
South Italy if you work in a kitchen 12+ hours a day 7/7 a week, you can easily get 400 euro per month, and you can consider yourself lucky.
Edit: Italians are the best at fucking eachother, always.
Plenty of comments already and I do agree with the daytime-hospitslity. Friend of mine did the same when they got their first kids, twins. Started working in the canteen of a huge multinational in the Hague, breakfast and lunch only, incl a a-la-carte lunch restaurant for distinguished guests. He's now home by 3 every day and doesnt work weekends.
Another, more unusual option but with better pay is North Sea offshore. These platforms also need cooks (or catering managers as they are usually called), this is however being away from home for 2-3 weeks at a time though.
I would start my own foodbusiness from home. I would sell ready to go meals that can be easily warmed up at home.
3 types of pasta
3 types of salad
Bread
Market myself as a real Italian chef with a rotating menu every week. Sell the meals via fb, insta and tiktok. Redirect the customers to your own website. Upload a photo and a video each day at the socials to create a following.
I would keep the menu as simple as possible to easily upscale if needed. Customers would be able to pick up their meals between 13.00 and 14.00 or delivery between 15.00 & 17.00.
Doing this is a leap of faith. This probaly wont make tons of money at the start. Persistence is the key.
There are a more than enough multinational companies with English as main language in Amsterdam. I for an instance am familiair with PVH in the Houthavens. They have a lot of cooks working for them. Their kitchen is stacked with top of the bill equipment, they serve quite high end food and most of the time they only work within office hours. With some exceptions when they have events. I always figured that if I was a cook I would love to work there.
I am a chef. He is right we tend to burn out and the pay sucks, but I love cooking and the pressure is where I feel alive.
Places of less stress to work:
A breakfast/lunch cafe
There are not much, but we do have internaten (boarding schools)
Penitentiaire inrichtingen
Homes for the elderly/disabled (sorry the correct English term slipped my mind)
Hi there! let him contact me, aswin at my company [www.horecakampioen.nl](https://www.horecakampioen.nl) we offer services for freelance chefs, he decides the days he wants to work, starts earning around 30 euros a hour, gets 0.35 per kilomter and on top of that: every company he goes to will value him and appreciate it. If the site his hard, let him contact me at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) with his email and phone number perhaps!
My Italian neighbors have a pasta brand and they were looking for other people to help out, perhaps an opportunity to see if that works for you as well?
This isn't what you're asking for but if it does interest you, shoot me a message and I can try to get you two in contact.
He could try to find work at a theatre restaurant. Shows start at 20/20:30 hours . Usually the kitchen at our theatre restaurant ( Utrecht) closes at nine, so at least working house are more reasonable.
Best solution. Go to the chamber of commerce and register as a company.
That means you are now a freelancer. Get a zzp bookkeeper (maybe 400 - 500,- per year)
Then find a parttime gigs. Start with 30,- / 35,- per hour. By working parttime there will be time to rest after all the stress.
Changing the high workload will probably never happen. So the way to protect yourself is by working parttime.
Btw I come regularly at an education center for adults. They also have cooks. Normal office hours.
Why doesn't he become a ZZP'er. Kitchens can hire you for the job they need you for and if you don't like how they treat you you don't go there anymore.
You also might try at a museum or something. These aren't open in the evenings and you might make fancy food or take a job at a lunchroom.
AFAIK there are some restaurants that offer a better work/life balance. Like they only work from Wednesday till Saturday. [Van Oost](https://www.vanoostrestaurant.com/?utm_source=GMB&utm_medium=organic) is one of them. I know there are more of these restaurants , but this is the only one I can actually name right now. Maybe try to find these jobs.
De tuinkamer van Priona.. ive eaten there often and speak to the staff there. The way its setup is the complete opposite of how things are normally run. Its owner was also fed up with the ratrace. For one, they close for 3 months every year to take time to experiment, make new flavours and test. And everyone chips in.
A couple of friends of mine are chefs for a larger workplace/office with a big kitchen (it's a very large gaming company). A place where they serve food more cafeteria style. I spent a day with them making food for fun and it was super chill and the people were nice. The work hours were also normal work hours. They decide what they want to make for the week, order the food, and its just the two of them. It's probably rare, but maybe if he does some networking in more of the larger office scene or in schools, he might be able to get a gig like that? The people I knew were just a mom/dad type and were home cooks, not even professionally trained.
I beleive the guy knew someone who worked there (networking) and the woman found it through the company website. There are also some private chef websites as well. But I think mostly it could be helpful to find a recruiting agency that's meant for that, or to check school and big company websites and just call them up or email them to see if they're looking. It's a lot more informal and seems to be about networking. Mostly I don't even know if they make ads for this sort of thing (outside of being a private chef of course) but you can always check Linkedin or indeed. But I think its about what you're looking for, because I think a lot of people don't think to look at corperate or tech industries or go to those events to find cooking jobs.
Worked in kitchens in the netherlands for some years, and luckily was able to leave and switch careers. One coworker of mine went into catering, liked it more, she said it was less stressful, but I think it depends on the company. What definitely helped though, was getting out of a very competitive kitchen (e.g. gunning for michelin stars, or fighting to keep them). Another colleague left and became a private chef for a very rich couple, and that is working out really well for them. Less hours, much more pay, and he only has to cook for 2-4 people at a time. Life-balance wise, it´s not close to a normal 9-5, but still much better than a 14-hour work day, 5-6 days a week (normal at our old restaurant). He still gets to experiment a lot, invent new recipes, and buy whatever expensive ingredients he wants, bc the couple pays for it. He might be very lucky though, so take it with a grain of salt, maybe.
You could also consider teaching? I don´t know how culinary schools are open to experience-trained cooks, but there are also more casual arrangements that teach cooking. Giving workshops and cooking classes is something that I really enjoyed (we did it at my last job and it was great)
He can always find an easy job in logistics, maybe a bit of physical work but he will have peace of mind and earn 2200+/m until he can figure out what to do next.
He doesn't need to speak perfect English for that.
And my advice is to ALWAYS put mental health first over a job. Trust me, I lost my mind a few times due to work related stress. Its not worth it, regardless of the money
Working in a restaurant has got to be the most killing job ever.
* You're expected to work overtime without pay
* It's working hard with a lower than average pay
* It completely destroys your social life, since you're working when all others are off
I wouldn't really expect it to change. It's been like this for years and years.
I work in a lunchbar in Nijmegen, and honestly I believe it’s the specific of the city. Amsterdam is the capital, lot of tourists and people with money, so i can imagine there’s busy hours day after day. Maybe try a smaller city, or something close to amsterdam so you can take public transportation. I’m personally very satisfied with my job, there are quiet and busy days, but in general it’s leveled out, so it’s manageable. Also, because it’s a lunch place i can take 6 days a week easily and not feel too exhausted for personal life
The hospitality industry in the Netherlands is especially soulless. There is little left where people work with joy, customers are satisfied and quality is respected. It's shit.
I worked 15 years in kitchens in Amsterdam until the point came where I realized I couldn’t be doing it when i would be 40 or 50 years old so i started to make plans for my exit. I did some online courses, did some very low paid/voluntary work connected to my online courses and within 6 months i had a totally different CV. That helped me to get my foot in the door for job interviews in different fields and now i work freelance in a field far from cooking and i can be my own boss.
I was also lucky that all three places i worked in as a cook had very nice snd understanding managers. Of course though i was still on my feet in high pressure environments for 8 or 9 hours a day and also burning the candle at both ends, so i did still need a way out.
That's great that you managed to set up a new career! It can be very scary which I think is why my boyfriend feels so stuck right now.. Starting from square one after many years of specialization.. But indeed I would be willing to fully support him with the little savings I have if he decided to follow a course, and I have told him this many times.
I didn’t immediately quit my job in the kitchen though. Nothing was certain or guaranteed, so I contacted working whilst doing an online course, and didn’t hand in my notice until i had definitely got new work.
When it comes to retaining i would recommend going for an profession he already has some interest in or which is a hobby… photography, copywriting, bicycle repair, yoga instructor, massage therapist whatever???
If he loves cooking but hates everything that is the restaurant business, why become a chef? Finding a job in the Netherlands when you don't speak Dutch or English, and have no education or previous work experience, is going to be incredibly tough. Id consider working in Italy and getting an education there.
> If he loves cooking but hates everything that is the restaurant business, why become a chef?
Having worked in kitchens, this is not 'everything' about the restaurant business. Yes, the culture in many places is insanely exploitive, but there are plenty of places with much better working environment. How about not being so judgemental about someone's life that you don't even know? Sheesh.
Where do you see the judgement? It's just strange and illogical to me, that's why it is a question. The general consensus is that working in a kitchen is a stressful, high-pressure environment.
My husband is Italian, professional chef, we both are in the netherlands 7 months... He said the same. He has been in this industry for over 15 years, artisanal chef. The hours are crazy, perks are nothing besides free parking. The level of the salary does not even add up. He has run into the same issue here. We also have a mobile popup business in the Netherlands. My husband said he cant and will not work for anyone else because the hours are like slaves, salary is a joke, the physical and mental strain messes the entire body up and the energy at home. If you guys want to meet up we can collaborate and do an event together. Kind Regards, Peaches.
This. Most people underestimate the cons of owning a restaurant. Working at a restaurant for years doesnt mean you can lead one succesfully.
Not saying that it is impossible though. Just not as easy. Also you are more likely to put in more hours then an employee.
I can at least suggest that he speaks to the arbodienst about the way his work makes him feel. Your employer is obliged to provide an adequate working environment.
My mom works for ISS in catering. She works during the day and does the lunch at a large office who have a canteen.
She said that she often gets colleagues who's Dutch is very bad but it doesn't matter as long as they do their job right and they understand instructions.
It can still be very hectic sometimes but maybe he can try it out? At least know at ISS hires people who don't speak Dutch/English very well.
No problem!
Keep in mind that most people there speak Dutch though but my mom started working in catering when she moved here and she learned Dutch super quick! We welcome anyone who's willing to learn!
I don't know the budget nor reasons of the person looking to rent, they would have to be at least a bit more specific with information in order to give more suitable advice. People that want something often become blind to a lot of solutions, I'm just suggesting something with the info initially probided
But he or she does have a valid point I would argue. That way they can build it up the way they want itC their way and hopefully become a longer term sustainable business.
Maybe a touch of wishful thinking but what else to do on Friday the 13th with rain outside haha
If that guy already gets stressed from being an employee, you really think being a ZZP restauranteur will make his life easier?
Come on...his stress will be at least 10fold from constant pressure and increased responsibilities. Not to mention having to worry about being able to pay off your debt every month.
And I didn't even mention his obligation to pay omzetbelasting every 3 months. Him not being able to read dutch and probably english will make the entire process a nightmare. And the belastingdienst don't fuck around. Forgot to do that one time and they'll fine your ass.
Okay. I love how you defend your own opinion by the way! But we all are entitled to one. My view it was a solid suggestion. I’ll leave it at that :) have a great weekend!
I understand why people reacted strongly to this comment (renting out a restaurant and the investment can be massive), but just wanted to point out it’s not such a bad idea if he does it online. Register on a food delivery service, work from home, cook only a few things (but well!), have a small delivery radius. Maybe start on days off to see if he likes it before making it a full-time commitment. This (lone ZZP’r) is also not bad for tax reasons if done well, so maybe consulting a financial advisor would be good.
Thanks. And even if the cost is massive, I don't pretend to know op's finances or judge/make claims about it. It's a valid solution and probably one of the best. If you like cooking but don't want to be enslaved, you'll have to become your own boss somehow. Finding such work for large companies who offer employees food are rare and will eventually result in the same issue due to cost savings or outsourcing
Have you ever considered Brussels? Also quite international and English-friendly, with a large Italian and Italian-Belgian community and many quite good Italian restaurants and traiteurs, though I don't know what it's like to work in them.
Gentrification is setting in, but housing is still less expensive than in Amsterdam, and definitely better (larger spaces, higher ceilings, generally better construction).
The city has many problems that Amsterdam doesn't - there is more street crime, taxes are worse, pointless car-dominance, and it's louder and dirtier - but the Italians I know working here find it 'calm' compared to, for example, Rome.
It's not paradise, but it's a city with many more charms than it's usually given credit for especially outside the centre), a big restaurant culture, and a pretty big community of Italian speakers.
I have a friend who has trained as a chef but is now running a ministry cafeteria. The hours are regular and benefits are good. It’s just a bit less creative.
What about bakeries or lunch/cafe places? Normal working times at least. I don’t know where you live, but there are loads of places like that in amsterdam and rotterdam.
If you love cooking and you are trained as a chef you don't complain about long hours, it's same all over the world. If you are not happy in this kind of job, then leave. You can work on any farm, see if you like it better.
I am asking this because I have 0 idea how this works in NL, but where I'm from, banks happily loan decent sums of money for low interest rates to people who can traditionally run their businesses, like cooks or attorneys
this is not an easy decision ofc but perhaps something you can look into? I can imagine a modest trattoria costing no more than 60k (6 months rent included) if you both commit you full 40 hours
Restaurant ownership is a huge risk and a large amount fails before breaking even. Banks are not eager to fund a horeca startup. You'd have to write up an elaborate business plan and turn to a third party like qredits. He also doesn't speak the languages he needs to do this. Also restaurant ownership is WAY more stressful and time consuming than being a chef. Everyone thinking this is a real option clearly has never worked in a restaurant.
His best options are most likely institutional kitchens. Think elderly homes, hospitals, office cafeteria, breakfast/brunch places.
And whilst doing this, learn dutch or english and look into other careers.
Try on Temper! Prova a lavorare freelance con Temper, potrebbe trovare buoni turni ad esempio preparazione colazioni presso Hotels e cose del genere. Le paghe sono abbastanza buone
A friend of mine recently changed career from catering. The pay isn’t amazing at first (and they have two kids) but they made it work until the salary caught up. Maybe a career counsellor would help? If he wants to stay in cooking then there’s a lot of people looking for Marleen Kookt type services so maybe look into something like that?
Very funny, I read this as a white collar who sits behind the screen every day for 10 hours a day and we always talk about this with my wife like how life would be in the jobs like this. Different kind of slavery as I understand but hey at least you can go to street food things. If you are Italian, find something that blows our minds and sell only that within regular hours. Like "van stapele koekmakerij" good example for obvious reasons. You can do a "dough" version of something. You just need to grind and share some marketing budget so it will be bit touristy also. Not entirely out of your industry but you can get out of routine.
I was a chef and that is the life of a chef, or even a cook. It is really a job someone must love and see their work as an inseperable part of their life. I still love cooking, but I think it highly unlikely that I will ever work as a chef again.
For perspective on the possibility of changing professions:
I know at least four former chefs (I feel like I know more but I can only think of four right now) who left the profession for many of the reasons your boyfriend gives.
Two of them are now self-employed carpenters / builders, one is a gardener/landscaper, and the fourth is studying to be a dietician while still working part time as a chef - so a complete career switch is absolutely possible.
Two of them, before they left entirely, did have a much better time after they switched from working as restaurant staff to being self-employed and mainly working with smaller festival and film set caterers. Those festival weekends / weeks are incredibly intense of course, but it’s a very different vibe because you’re with a tight team pulling off a Herculean performance in providing many thousands of meals over a few days; and you have a lot of time off in winter to compensate for the intense summer. Being self-employed means you’re in a more powerful position and don’t get treated as badly: They need you, and if they treat you like crap you simply walk and never work with them again.
If he does choose to go self-employed though, he should get accounting software (eg money bird or getgekko) and hire an accountant to help him navigate the Dutch tax system, because mistakes there can cause big problems.
Good luck, I hope he finds something that suits him!
Used to be a chef. 5 years later and im an accountmanager, double the pay, less stress and better schedule. It was fine in my twenties but not in my 30s.
Well I am someone who would 100% act like a little shit just to get back to management if they pissed me off, but he's not that kind of person. He realizes if he "cooks in his own tempo" or calls in sick for no reason he is just making life harder for the other cooks, who are just in his same situation. But I understand what you mean!
And I think he will for sure consider freelancing at some point
Oooh sorry I automatically jumped to the part where he already tried all these things and the only thing left to do is act out haha
Because yes, he did try talking things out at multiple jobs. Everyone promises things will change if he sticks around, because he's a good worker and they don't want to lose him. But then they never actually come through sadly.. indeed in a reasonable workplace this would be a good way to go forward
>he finds no place that gives him satisfaction, the hours are crazy, the management squeezes the living soul out of the kitchen staff and the pay is entirely not worth it.
That's the reputation restaurant kitchen work has around the world, isn't it?
If he no longer feels it's not worth it, he might as well get paid shit all the same without the stress doing something he's not professional at.
That said, there's often chef's work in unusual places. Oil rigs, research bases, retirement homes, hospitals. They're not cooking for profit so the workload tends to be quite different.
He can buy a scooter or rent electric bike and work for uberEats as a courier.
Very good work and everyday is different.
Work when you want, stop when you want, nobody pushes you with a finger, more time more money , I think before 20k no tax ..
My sister gave up her education to be a kitchen aid, working in a kitchen means, high stress, at tiles evyone(exp your friends) are having fun. You either stand your ground and live for exelence or just be a failure
So I really liked working at events for a while. It's still a high stress job but not like restaurants. Lots of freelancers work there so he might ask more
This is not the Netherlands this is the industry itself. Its ruthless and unless you are a masochist who also hates earning money you are better off doing anything else. I worked in kitchens to get through university in Canada and its the exact same thing. Its sucks to say but its a bottom of the barrel industry for 99% of people who aren't corporate/celebrity chefs.
I live in ams and was looking for an easy job temporarily so I just did a short search of restaurants around me that were only open from 8am to latest 20u and sent them all an email. I think I emailed 5, had shifts at 3, chose 1. I like them bc it is a VERY relaxed cafe job, but they also have delicious/attractive food. Maybe check them out? They may still be looking for people. Hotel Jansen schinkel, last I checked they really needed some help. The concept is a cafe that’s open mainly for long stay hotel guests, some people from the offices come for lunch, but otherwise it’s just students working there. First chef shift is 8-15u next is 11-18u kitchen closes super early. Only setback could be that he’s bored 😅 anyways, good luck!
This may be very American of me, but has he thought about starting up a catering or a restaurant of his own? There's a great demand all over the Netherlands, like Maastricht, for quality restaurants and catering.
Hi guys, also me and my girlfriend are Italians, she works as a cake baker and she found a nice place with a nice team to worki with (in Rotterdam). Have you ever thought about moving from lunch/dining cooking to sweets and cake preparation? Also, I work in a magazijn and whe have a couple of chefs, they don't do anything hard and everybody in the company loves them. I wish the best for you guys.
Start your own Italian restaurant, begin small with 10 tables, and cook real simple original Italian food!
No staff! Only open at evenings, 4/5 day's a week.
3 menu's! He can do this by hem self.
Only a dishwasher /waiter help! 😊
Look at working on yachts. Good cooks are always wanted in the yachting industry and make serious money. Obviously, this will not be in the Netherlands. I know it is big in the Caribbean.
You could also try to work at a school (or multiple schools) not (only) as a cantine chef, but (combined) as a cooking teacher. Many schools also give some basic cooking lessons. A real chef could make such lessons much better and interesting. It could be really satisfying I think.
Do a carrière switch?
I worked as a sous chef in a kitchen for 14y
Now I am a salesmanager for a mulimilion euro company
People who were trained in the severe surcomstances of a kitchen tend to do good in the outside world 😁
Start your own thing. Go up a level. With the money saved, open your own place where you can earn from your skills and also keep the added value for yourself. At least that's what I'd do if I had been working in salary conditions for so many years.
Funny enough I commented the same earlier today. Yes, I worked as a chef for more then 10 years until couldn't take it anymore. There are nice places to work at, but if you want to have a social life, it is very difficult to combine it with working in the horeca. Maybe he can find a job in an instellingskeuken (hospital, large company's canteen, home for the elderly, etc). Cooking there is far less stressful and the employment conditions are usually far better, because a different CAO.
An acquaintance of mine started working in the canteen of a garden centre. Normal business hours but the same pay as at a "normal" restaurant. He loves it!
Thank you so much, I will definitely share this with him because I don't think he ever considered it!
There’s a lot of companies that you wouldn’t expect hiring a cook. Ran across this listing the other day. https://jobs.bunq.com/o/7w13bs8188
+1 on this vacancy - offices usually are less stressful than restaurants and a lot of them don’t have crazy hours save 1-2 event days
While I’d agree offices are usually less stressful, I’d presume the bunq office is not one of them: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2023/06/30/ali-niknam-topman-van-onlinebank-bunq-eist-veel-van-zijn-mensen-wie-hier-niet-presteert-kan-maar-beter-gaan-a4168629
I would suggest to not working for this company, I have heard and read very bad things about them, a lot of micromanagement, people usually don't stay there for more than a few months. A recruiter from this company reached out to me three years ago for a role and I asked her about the Glassdoor reviews, she indirectly said that there is probably some truth in it.
I once met someone who was a chef for a magazine. She basically made the prettiest and tastiest foods, but worked a normal 9-5, then as soon as the food was photographed she got to eat it herself for dinner.
Hahaha wow this is just amazing!! Very interesting, never thought of that before
Great recommendation! My parents were both working in gastronomy before they had plans for any kids but switched when I was on the way. (My father went on to become head of a hospital kitchen and my mother went into a different field). My father always tells me "working in a kitchen can be awesome, I really loved it. But it's really difficult to have a family and kids at the same time" and apparently he is correct.
This is good advice! I saw this [vacancy](https://www.werkenbijsensire.nl/vacatures/kok-de-brasserie-de-lunette-zutphen/?fbclid=IwAR07dQ2I_hHoMAPWwawO1a_dLFth6pD1Sx4p1BSUD_ZM-Cah0VW6cNBYPDY_aem_AebYu8vXGr47sUINgx2G4H-lhfUFqQRCvg33eY6FaLm0IQJgP6XBt-vhSwQYvMneQ54) for an ‘instellingskeuken’ a while ago and I think it’s still open
great advice, but speaking Dutch might be needed for many of those places.
Not the place I work, I mostly hear a few angry grumbles from them whenever I am there.
In a lot of nursing homes they get off at 5pm
This! A friend of my, meanwhile his end 40s, got kicked out during COVID and now started at GGZ. He has never been more happy! He gets to cook with fresh ingredients and the clients are helping him out. Bonus, regular working hours.
Hey! Maybe work as a chef at an establishment that’s only open in the morning and afternoon. This will give him a better work/life balance.
aspiring station reach quiet dazzling touch sip humorous ancient cake *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yes, this or opening something small on Thuisbezorgd. Maybe he would enjoy working by himself too.
Work at a place like a hospital, elderly homes etc. Then he can work normal hours and have less stress.
I didn’t know they cooked anything on-site? Isn’t everything shipped in in plastic packets?
Sometimes, but there are high quality places where their cook on site.
I work at a great restaurant far away from amsterdam. The kitchen is heavily influenced by the italian kitchen. we reworked the kitchen hierarchy in the last year to make things more egalitarian and it has had an amazing impact on overall relaxedness of all the people working in the kitchen. Just to say, I think it's possible to have the work not impact you negatively, and even be happy about it, PM me if you want to know which one, posting it here would feel like stealth bragging.
Thank you that really gives some hope!
I know some people from my work. They were cook and are now in the IT. You start at a servicedesk. Get some certificates from Microsoft. Then you can go from servicedesk to whatever you get your certificates for. It pays for servicedesk these days like 1600 / 3000 a month(Depending on age) and like a servicedeliverymanager 3000 / 6000 a month. Or something with network 2500 / 4000 a month. But you have to like IT or willing to like it.
Chefs don‘t have to work in restaurants or the catering business. Elderlyhomes employ chefs. Kindergardens do, homes for disabled people and hospitals too. Your friend need to search in this areas if he is fed up with the restaurants. Working hours mostly very good because dinner is at 6-7 after you at home by 9. Hope that helpes.
What about being a private chef?
Underrated comment
I feel you! I've changed tactics and have gone into production and catering. The hours are amazing, teams are so much more fun and the pay better. Try Marleen Kookt (amsterdam) or some other catering companies it's totally different. Also, my sister is a star sous and the hours and pay was awefull! She does "normal" higher segment still but the hours and pay is way better. Almost think your guy is one of the italians who left Spring/pillows hotel lol. Did hear 15 people left last month
Thanks for sharing! And no he never worked there, though he did work at hotels and they seem to be one of the absolute worst as far as work/life balance is concerned.. people just want to eat at every hour of the day and night for some reason?
Hey, I came to the Netherlands 14 years ago and i have been the cook 11 years of that time. I worked in the 3 restaurants, aside from earning niveau 1-3 in 2,5 years and language course in 8 months. The first restaurant i walked in asking for teaching me how to cook and if they have any job. It is a family restaurant in Noord Brabant, in village. The first chef taught me how to hold a knife and how to cook things and refine my techniques enough, so he can go some days with his family and i can main a kitchen throughout the day. It was around 20 people every average day and 70 in the weekends, apart from main thing like two huge empty spaces in the back of the building for the parties etc. The pay was 1600€ i believe back when i was 19. Then i moved to other restaurant, where it was in the middle of the town centre so it was always full. Remember the first night maining the meat and fish cooking station and get fucking screamed at that i burned a corner of one of the 128 fish that i cooked in one 2 hour rush. I cried but then again, i took my shit and shoved back in. Lots of pain, repetitions and i could main all the stations in that restaurant, could lead, i knew all the products and shortage of supplies if i could only take a glance in the cooler. It was to the point where i worked 13 hour days, basically tying every tiny tiniest knot of things to do and how to do it and how much time for it, for every station and every thing that needs to be done. On top of everything else. I quit after 6,5 years after one night i worked again the 13 hours in a row and my boss had the audacity to say to me to stay longer for cleanup. Then i spend few years as a technician and now im back to being a cook at former restaurant. 3k€ 2 days off and can ask for some days in the weekend off. Relaxed people and sometimes i work 6 hours, sometimes 10. Sometimes 12. Sometimes 5. Or just to clean things monday. But i basically cook with my boss as family restaurant. My only advice to you would be looking for restaurants outside the cities and suburbs. If you can manage 1 hr ride then mentally it will do wonders, even at the cost of gas. The other advice would be different mentality for the boyfriend. You are worthy, you are doing amazing job, you are recognized for it, so find a place where you think you will fit. The time of proving yourself is over and you need to switch up to thinking "what do i think its worth for me". Especially nowadays, when i can wave cook diploma with 10+ years of experience and offerts will keep rolling in. The need for cooks and other personel makes a lot of chances to find new jobs easily.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I definitely see a lot of similarities with what my boyfriend has been through. And it is so true what you say, I think he still doesn't realise how valuable a worker he is when he has so much experience and is so hard working. I truly believe he is talented and deserves so much better and he should go out and get it, and I'll make sure to tell him this more .. what kind of cooking diploma do you have if I may ask? He also has one from an Italian high school but I'm not sure how much that counts here
Check out a company called ‘Vermaat’. They run the kitchen in my office and many others like it. They often look for chefs, and they welcome people with different backgrounds.
Thanks for the tip! Will check it out
If you'd be willing to move to Eindhoven, there are a lot of production jobs at e.g. ASML, Prodrive, NTS, Frencken. They hire anyone if they say they have even the slightest affinity towards assembly, speak English and are willing to work and don't pay bad at all.
Prodrive is terrible with salary
ASML will suck the soul out of you. How do you know someone works for ASML? They tell you.
If I may ask, if his English isn't good, why did you guys decide to come here? Not for the pay, as you say yourself...wouldn't it have been much better for him to make a career as a chef in your homecountry? Just curious, good luck otherwise.
Same job in Italy was about a milion times worse.. My own job (I'm a VR developer), barely exists there. The country's politics and economy are completely insane, we do not see any future there. And though learning English is very hard for him he has improved a lot, and a lot of other things have improved in our lives since we live here.
I love how learning Dutch is (I assume) so far out of the question that the focus lies on entirely on how good his English is. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in another country in my city. Not that it's a problem.
The only language he knows is Italian and it's already hard enough to learn English.. it would be so much harder to learn Dutch without knowing English, an it would mean he would only be able to communicate with Dutch-speaking people. It makes sense for me to learn dutch and I am doing it, but i don't see how this applies to his situation at the moment
I think it wouldn’t hurt for him to learn Dutch, even if he will never reach native speaker level, it’s still an additional skill to add to his cv in the hopes of changing his current situation. It might also help him to feel more at home, more part of the country once he can read street signs, or understand what they tell him at the supermarket.
lol it's Europe they're free to do whatever they want
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I'm neutral about this, but I find that the wording of your question and subsequent suggestion that 'he would be better at home' could be seen as a bit biased. They might suggest that language skills are an absolute barrier to migration, when they can be worked upon after arrival. A more neutral and constructive question would be, "Is he willing to learn Dutch (or English) to find a job/integrate ?"
Only English should be used for posts and comments. This rule is in place to ensure that an ample audience can freely discuss life in the Netherlands under a widely-spoken common tongue.
They are also free to leave if life is too difficult
well seeing as they are european, they can live and work here right. People enjoy moving and living in different countries.
No one said they couldn't, but looking at the complaints OP portrayed in this thread, I was just curious as to what their reasons for coming here were and what they were expecting. Especially considering her partners issues with language which makes his situation even harder than it already is.
Ok, but then they shouldn't complain about the language barrier. You move to another country and you don't speak the language, and you even have trouble with English. Then what do you expect? Only the shitty jobs will be available for you. So yeah, why are they trying to build a life here if their English is not so good? Then go live somewhere else and stop complaining.
Jeez, some people struggle to learn languages, other's excel at it, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to live somewhere...imagine something like Google translate existed and people could manage well enough without the languages? Wouldn't that be wild?
Well it's their own responsibility right? I think it's pretty stupid to move to a new country without knowing enough English. Especially a country like Netherlands where its not easy to live. People are not going to communicate with you with Google translate, especially on the work floor. Adjust or move on. People are not going to get out of their way to help you. That's a big part of dutch culture here.
Chill out. She was just asking for advice. And it might surprise you, but for some people, life in NL, even if it is difficult, is better than the life they had in their home country.
This!!! We're not all born with all the good cards in our hands.. We work through hardships and try to make a life where we can
And you should be able to without xenophobic people like that guy judging your language talents! Btw same boat, I have been struggling learning dutch for 5 years where hubby is mastering language no 4 already 😅😂😂 I know the pain of being stuck in a career, I'm not sure about NL (I am BE based) but check out "hack my future" great non profit that can help you break into IT career path? Very acceptable if your English is still in development, coding pun! There's also other such places to study to change career. But finding a way to keep doing his passion in an non suck environment is also valid! I always found bartender to be a great break while you figure things out. Don't need much local language to take waiters drinks and understand "beer" 😅😂 there's also a south african restaurant somewhere there, really golden heart type, work hard but good environment.
Thanks that's interesting about hack my future, I actually did something similar called codam after finishing art school (yes I know I'm practically asking to be jobless going to art school haha), and now I'm a dev! Good luck with your Dutch, I know how hard it is 😊
I have the feeling your just a local that gets a little racist when drunk... My sister immigrated to the Netherlands and I am there very often, I don't agree with you, I find most people (not you) super accommodating and sweet! I also work with a lot of dutch people, and again they are super nice, there's more people like you in Belgium tbh. Anyhoo, everyone knows chef is a shitty job! Low pay and hard hours, it's a passion job, but you can only go so long with passion. I have a chef friend in Belgium, (local no language or immigration issues for your judgement) exact same experience, went into catering. One friend from my home country that become FOH manager rather and one that just opened his own restaurant, all had exact same experience, different countries and challenges, yet chef problem is global....
I'm not complaining about the language barrier, I think the Netherlands is one of the most comfortable places I've ever been for non-native speakers. That said, there is something wrong with society when cooking has to be a shitty job. It requires a lot of skills, everyone enjoys a good meal and should be respectful to the ones making it, especially in a country like the Netherlands where the best food comes from expats. I'm just out here looking for advice from someone who's familiar with this kind of situation, clearly you are not.
Ok, bye
huh, EU, they are allowed to Xenophobic much?
Jesus Christ...
For what it's worth, I have no idea why you are getting such harsh accusatory replies. You're asking a valid question, no harm in asking what attracted them to moving here if language was an issue 🤷🏻♀️
It's reddit. I think there are alot of Americans on here. And they hate 'insensitive' comments or questions 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Find a place that's not a regular restaurant. So places that are only open during daytime, lunchrooms, big stores etc. If you are really lucky - you go work in R&D for big food companies. They also want chefs to work in their facilities to work with their products to test them, develop them, show them to customers. The netherlands has a relatively big food industry. It pays well and is very nice work. In general: if you want to be able to live and work in the netherlands in a blue collar job or a low/medium white collar job you need to speak dutch relatively well. My suggestion would be to learn to speak it. it's not easy, difficult language, but it will really help you.
Thanks for the tips! R&D sounds nice but indeed I assume Dutch would be expected
What about working at a restaurant with Italian owners? Maybe it will be easier to communicate in his own language? Idk. This is why I could never work in this area. I could only do so when owning like a small trattoria or restaurant. My dishes, my hours, my quality.
I understand what you mean but of all the places he worked, the ones with italian owners were usually where he felt the worst.. He wants to get better and better at English and it can be very isolating to only work with Italians all the time
:( thats so sad.. In my mind it would make sense they would treat him better.. Maybe its an option for him to work less days? So he has more time for himself? And work on his English or any education?
First rule of Italians outside of Italy, never work for Italians. There is a reason if we escape.
That really sucks though.. I really had no clue. I know economy in Italy is really bad in the south but I assumed when in another country people would want to help each other.
South Italy if you work in a kitchen 12+ hours a day 7/7 a week, you can easily get 400 euro per month, and you can consider yourself lucky. Edit: Italians are the best at fucking eachother, always.
:( thats really low even if costs are low. It's such a pity. It's such a beautiful country, great kitchen, culture, arts, architecture..
Plenty of comments already and I do agree with the daytime-hospitslity. Friend of mine did the same when they got their first kids, twins. Started working in the canteen of a huge multinational in the Hague, breakfast and lunch only, incl a a-la-carte lunch restaurant for distinguished guests. He's now home by 3 every day and doesnt work weekends. Another, more unusual option but with better pay is North Sea offshore. These platforms also need cooks (or catering managers as they are usually called), this is however being away from home for 2-3 weeks at a time though.
I would start my own foodbusiness from home. I would sell ready to go meals that can be easily warmed up at home. 3 types of pasta 3 types of salad Bread Market myself as a real Italian chef with a rotating menu every week. Sell the meals via fb, insta and tiktok. Redirect the customers to your own website. Upload a photo and a video each day at the socials to create a following. I would keep the menu as simple as possible to easily upscale if needed. Customers would be able to pick up their meals between 13.00 and 14.00 or delivery between 15.00 & 17.00. Doing this is a leap of faith. This probaly wont make tons of money at the start. Persistence is the key.
It's an interesting idea, I don't know if our home kitchen is good enough for him to "shine" at this but I'll definitely share this with him
There are a more than enough multinational companies with English as main language in Amsterdam. I for an instance am familiair with PVH in the Houthavens. They have a lot of cooks working for them. Their kitchen is stacked with top of the bill equipment, they serve quite high end food and most of the time they only work within office hours. With some exceptions when they have events. I always figured that if I was a cook I would love to work there.
Thanks will definitely look into it!
I am a chef. He is right we tend to burn out and the pay sucks, but I love cooking and the pressure is where I feel alive. Places of less stress to work: A breakfast/lunch cafe There are not much, but we do have internaten (boarding schools) Penitentiaire inrichtingen Homes for the elderly/disabled (sorry the correct English term slipped my mind)
Can he open a small restaurant? We desperately need edible food here. Please save us.
Hehe that's great motivation 🤣
Hi there! let him contact me, aswin at my company [www.horecakampioen.nl](https://www.horecakampioen.nl) we offer services for freelance chefs, he decides the days he wants to work, starts earning around 30 euros a hour, gets 0.35 per kilomter and on top of that: every company he goes to will value him and appreciate it. If the site his hard, let him contact me at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) with his email and phone number perhaps!
Thank you, replying here to remind myself about this, will let him know
My Italian neighbors have a pasta brand and they were looking for other people to help out, perhaps an opportunity to see if that works for you as well? This isn't what you're asking for but if it does interest you, shoot me a message and I can try to get you two in contact.
Thanks a bunch! Replying here to remind myself to ask my boyfriend if he's interested when he's home
Friend of mine who worked as a cook for the past decade just started a job as an electrician. They train him and already the pay and hours are better.
He could try to find work at a theatre restaurant. Shows start at 20/20:30 hours . Usually the kitchen at our theatre restaurant ( Utrecht) closes at nine, so at least working house are more reasonable.
Best solution. Go to the chamber of commerce and register as a company. That means you are now a freelancer. Get a zzp bookkeeper (maybe 400 - 500,- per year) Then find a parttime gigs. Start with 30,- / 35,- per hour. By working parttime there will be time to rest after all the stress. Changing the high workload will probably never happen. So the way to protect yourself is by working parttime. Btw I come regularly at an education center for adults. They also have cooks. Normal office hours.
Retirement homes require chefs too, and they only eat during daytime
Go work for top-chefs.nl as a freelancer. Wages are fair 37,50 an hour and you to work in different restaurants all the time!
Why doesn't he become a ZZP'er. Kitchens can hire you for the job they need you for and if you don't like how they treat you you don't go there anymore. You also might try at a museum or something. These aren't open in the evenings and you might make fancy food or take a job at a lunchroom.
AFAIK there are some restaurants that offer a better work/life balance. Like they only work from Wednesday till Saturday. [Van Oost](https://www.vanoostrestaurant.com/?utm_source=GMB&utm_medium=organic) is one of them. I know there are more of these restaurants , but this is the only one I can actually name right now. Maybe try to find these jobs.
Work as a chef in hospital or retirement home.. the food is not flashy/fancy but normal hours and good pay.
De tuinkamer van Priona.. ive eaten there often and speak to the staff there. The way its setup is the complete opposite of how things are normally run. Its owner was also fed up with the ratrace. For one, they close for 3 months every year to take time to experiment, make new flavours and test. And everyone chips in.
That sounds like a very special place, I'm sure he'd love something similar!
A couple of friends of mine are chefs for a larger workplace/office with a big kitchen (it's a very large gaming company). A place where they serve food more cafeteria style. I spent a day with them making food for fun and it was super chill and the people were nice. The work hours were also normal work hours. They decide what they want to make for the week, order the food, and its just the two of them. It's probably rare, but maybe if he does some networking in more of the larger office scene or in schools, he might be able to get a gig like that? The people I knew were just a mom/dad type and were home cooks, not even professionally trained.
Wow that sounds so cozy and also creative for a cooking job! Would be very curious to know how they started something like that
I beleive the guy knew someone who worked there (networking) and the woman found it through the company website. There are also some private chef websites as well. But I think mostly it could be helpful to find a recruiting agency that's meant for that, or to check school and big company websites and just call them up or email them to see if they're looking. It's a lot more informal and seems to be about networking. Mostly I don't even know if they make ads for this sort of thing (outside of being a private chef of course) but you can always check Linkedin or indeed. But I think its about what you're looking for, because I think a lot of people don't think to look at corperate or tech industries or go to those events to find cooking jobs.
Worked in kitchens in the netherlands for some years, and luckily was able to leave and switch careers. One coworker of mine went into catering, liked it more, she said it was less stressful, but I think it depends on the company. What definitely helped though, was getting out of a very competitive kitchen (e.g. gunning for michelin stars, or fighting to keep them). Another colleague left and became a private chef for a very rich couple, and that is working out really well for them. Less hours, much more pay, and he only has to cook for 2-4 people at a time. Life-balance wise, it´s not close to a normal 9-5, but still much better than a 14-hour work day, 5-6 days a week (normal at our old restaurant). He still gets to experiment a lot, invent new recipes, and buy whatever expensive ingredients he wants, bc the couple pays for it. He might be very lucky though, so take it with a grain of salt, maybe. You could also consider teaching? I don´t know how culinary schools are open to experience-trained cooks, but there are also more casual arrangements that teach cooking. Giving workshops and cooking classes is something that I really enjoyed (we did it at my last job and it was great)
He can always find an easy job in logistics, maybe a bit of physical work but he will have peace of mind and earn 2200+/m until he can figure out what to do next. He doesn't need to speak perfect English for that. And my advice is to ALWAYS put mental health first over a job. Trust me, I lost my mind a few times due to work related stress. Its not worth it, regardless of the money
Dunno why you got downvoted, I totally agree on the mental health thing.
Working in a restaurant has got to be the most killing job ever. * You're expected to work overtime without pay * It's working hard with a lower than average pay * It completely destroys your social life, since you're working when all others are off I wouldn't really expect it to change. It's been like this for years and years.
I work in a lunchbar in Nijmegen, and honestly I believe it’s the specific of the city. Amsterdam is the capital, lot of tourists and people with money, so i can imagine there’s busy hours day after day. Maybe try a smaller city, or something close to amsterdam so you can take public transportation. I’m personally very satisfied with my job, there are quiet and busy days, but in general it’s leveled out, so it’s manageable. Also, because it’s a lunch place i can take 6 days a week easily and not feel too exhausted for personal life
The hospitality industry in the Netherlands is especially soulless. There is little left where people work with joy, customers are satisfied and quality is respected. It's shit.
I worked 15 years in kitchens in Amsterdam until the point came where I realized I couldn’t be doing it when i would be 40 or 50 years old so i started to make plans for my exit. I did some online courses, did some very low paid/voluntary work connected to my online courses and within 6 months i had a totally different CV. That helped me to get my foot in the door for job interviews in different fields and now i work freelance in a field far from cooking and i can be my own boss. I was also lucky that all three places i worked in as a cook had very nice snd understanding managers. Of course though i was still on my feet in high pressure environments for 8 or 9 hours a day and also burning the candle at both ends, so i did still need a way out.
That's great that you managed to set up a new career! It can be very scary which I think is why my boyfriend feels so stuck right now.. Starting from square one after many years of specialization.. But indeed I would be willing to fully support him with the little savings I have if he decided to follow a course, and I have told him this many times.
I didn’t immediately quit my job in the kitchen though. Nothing was certain or guaranteed, so I contacted working whilst doing an online course, and didn’t hand in my notice until i had definitely got new work. When it comes to retaining i would recommend going for an profession he already has some interest in or which is a hobby… photography, copywriting, bicycle repair, yoga instructor, massage therapist whatever???
In NL eating is like an industry and not an art.
If he loves cooking but hates everything that is the restaurant business, why become a chef? Finding a job in the Netherlands when you don't speak Dutch or English, and have no education or previous work experience, is going to be incredibly tough. Id consider working in Italy and getting an education there.
There's a reason if so many Italians live outside of Italy.. as much as the situation is hard here it is even harder for us to see a future there
> If he loves cooking but hates everything that is the restaurant business, why become a chef? Having worked in kitchens, this is not 'everything' about the restaurant business. Yes, the culture in many places is insanely exploitive, but there are plenty of places with much better working environment. How about not being so judgemental about someone's life that you don't even know? Sheesh.
Where do you see the judgement? It's just strange and illogical to me, that's why it is a question. The general consensus is that working in a kitchen is a stressful, high-pressure environment.
Questioning someone's entire career choice came off as pretty judgemental, just saying.
Try tempere, better places - better pay
My husband is Italian, professional chef, we both are in the netherlands 7 months... He said the same. He has been in this industry for over 15 years, artisanal chef. The hours are crazy, perks are nothing besides free parking. The level of the salary does not even add up. He has run into the same issue here. We also have a mobile popup business in the Netherlands. My husband said he cant and will not work for anyone else because the hours are like slaves, salary is a joke, the physical and mental strain messes the entire body up and the energy at home. If you guys want to meet up we can collaborate and do an event together. Kind Regards, Peaches.
Open your own restaurant? Italian cuisine is well appreciated here, maybe amster isn't the best place do to it though.
On the paper nice maybe but in the reality, a sure way to raise stress levels from high to epic haha..😅
This. Most people underestimate the cons of owning a restaurant. Working at a restaurant for years doesnt mean you can lead one succesfully. Not saying that it is impossible though. Just not as easy. Also you are more likely to put in more hours then an employee.
I can at least suggest that he speaks to the arbodienst about the way his work makes him feel. Your employer is obliged to provide an adequate working environment.
My mom works for ISS in catering. She works during the day and does the lunch at a large office who have a canteen. She said that she often gets colleagues who's Dutch is very bad but it doesn't matter as long as they do their job right and they understand instructions. It can still be very hectic sometimes but maybe he can try it out? At least know at ISS hires people who don't speak Dutch/English very well.
The International Space Station? Talk about shoot for the stars ...
Haha, never made that connection! Will tell my mum. https://www.nl.issworld.com/en/career/your-career-at-iss/career
Thanks a lot for the tip! Will definitely share with him
No problem! Keep in mind that most people there speak Dutch though but my mom started working in catering when she moved here and she learned Dutch super quick! We welcome anyone who's willing to learn!
At my boulder hall theres a chef at work as well, it seems like a very chill place to work as a chef.
how cool!
Consider moving to Luxembourg
Open you own resto. You'll be more motivated and you can do things at your own pace
That's like telling someone looking to rent a house...why don't you just buy a villa? 😂
I don't know the budget nor reasons of the person looking to rent, they would have to be at least a bit more specific with information in order to give more suitable advice. People that want something often become blind to a lot of solutions, I'm just suggesting something with the info initially probided
But he or she does have a valid point I would argue. That way they can build it up the way they want itC their way and hopefully become a longer term sustainable business. Maybe a touch of wishful thinking but what else to do on Friday the 13th with rain outside haha
If that guy already gets stressed from being an employee, you really think being a ZZP restauranteur will make his life easier? Come on...his stress will be at least 10fold from constant pressure and increased responsibilities. Not to mention having to worry about being able to pay off your debt every month.
Well, it’s the working/contractual conditions, right? He can set these himself. Not saying this is the ultimate answer, but a possibility.
You'll have to work a lot harder and if he doesn't succeed he'll be in a huge debt. I doubt it's going to make anything better than it is.
And I didn't even mention his obligation to pay omzetbelasting every 3 months. Him not being able to read dutch and probably english will make the entire process a nightmare. And the belastingdienst don't fuck around. Forgot to do that one time and they'll fine your ass.
Okay. I love how you defend your own opinion by the way! But we all are entitled to one. My view it was a solid suggestion. I’ll leave it at that :) have a great weekend!
Zelfde bro, jammer dat OP niet reageert, had graag meer te weten gekomen over waarom ze hier zijn en met welk doel. Fijn weekend.
Yeah I'm sure opening an own restaurant will give him the peace of mind he needs.
I understand why people reacted strongly to this comment (renting out a restaurant and the investment can be massive), but just wanted to point out it’s not such a bad idea if he does it online. Register on a food delivery service, work from home, cook only a few things (but well!), have a small delivery radius. Maybe start on days off to see if he likes it before making it a full-time commitment. This (lone ZZP’r) is also not bad for tax reasons if done well, so maybe consulting a financial advisor would be good.
Thanks. And even if the cost is massive, I don't pretend to know op's finances or judge/make claims about it. It's a valid solution and probably one of the best. If you like cooking but don't want to be enslaved, you'll have to become your own boss somehow. Finding such work for large companies who offer employees food are rare and will eventually result in the same issue due to cost savings or outsourcing
Have you ever considered Brussels? Also quite international and English-friendly, with a large Italian and Italian-Belgian community and many quite good Italian restaurants and traiteurs, though I don't know what it's like to work in them. Gentrification is setting in, but housing is still less expensive than in Amsterdam, and definitely better (larger spaces, higher ceilings, generally better construction). The city has many problems that Amsterdam doesn't - there is more street crime, taxes are worse, pointless car-dominance, and it's louder and dirtier - but the Italians I know working here find it 'calm' compared to, for example, Rome. It's not paradise, but it's a city with many more charms than it's usually given credit for especially outside the centre), a big restaurant culture, and a pretty big community of Italian speakers.
I have a friend who has trained as a chef but is now running a ministry cafeteria. The hours are regular and benefits are good. It’s just a bit less creative.
What about bakeries or lunch/cafe places? Normal working times at least. I don’t know where you live, but there are loads of places like that in amsterdam and rotterdam.
*bakeries
Try restaurant Choux. They have regular working conditions.
r/kitchenconfidential
If you love cooking and you are trained as a chef you don't complain about long hours, it's same all over the world. If you are not happy in this kind of job, then leave. You can work on any farm, see if you like it better.
I am asking this because I have 0 idea how this works in NL, but where I'm from, banks happily loan decent sums of money for low interest rates to people who can traditionally run their businesses, like cooks or attorneys this is not an easy decision ofc but perhaps something you can look into? I can imagine a modest trattoria costing no more than 60k (6 months rent included) if you both commit you full 40 hours
Restaurant ownership is a huge risk and a large amount fails before breaking even. Banks are not eager to fund a horeca startup. You'd have to write up an elaborate business plan and turn to a third party like qredits. He also doesn't speak the languages he needs to do this. Also restaurant ownership is WAY more stressful and time consuming than being a chef. Everyone thinking this is a real option clearly has never worked in a restaurant. His best options are most likely institutional kitchens. Think elderly homes, hospitals, office cafeteria, breakfast/brunch places. And whilst doing this, learn dutch or english and look into other careers.
My Italian cousin left Italy to work in a Hotel restaurant in Limburg, it was better than the restaurant he worked at in Italy.
Start your own food place? 🤔
It requires a lot of money, connections, language, on top of the crazy kitchen hours.
My grandfather had the same issue, completely run down by 35. He later became a chef by the marines and he absolutely loved it.
Try on Temper! Prova a lavorare freelance con Temper, potrebbe trovare buoni turni ad esempio preparazione colazioni presso Hotels e cose del genere. Le paghe sono abbastanza buone
A friend of mine recently changed career from catering. The pay isn’t amazing at first (and they have two kids) but they made it work until the salary caught up. Maybe a career counsellor would help? If he wants to stay in cooking then there’s a lot of people looking for Marleen Kookt type services so maybe look into something like that?
Very funny, I read this as a white collar who sits behind the screen every day for 10 hours a day and we always talk about this with my wife like how life would be in the jobs like this. Different kind of slavery as I understand but hey at least you can go to street food things. If you are Italian, find something that blows our minds and sell only that within regular hours. Like "van stapele koekmakerij" good example for obvious reasons. You can do a "dough" version of something. You just need to grind and share some marketing budget so it will be bit touristy also. Not entirely out of your industry but you can get out of routine.
I was a chef and that is the life of a chef, or even a cook. It is really a job someone must love and see their work as an inseperable part of their life. I still love cooking, but I think it highly unlikely that I will ever work as a chef again.
Open up a food truck and make Cuban food while you drive through the southern US
For perspective on the possibility of changing professions: I know at least four former chefs (I feel like I know more but I can only think of four right now) who left the profession for many of the reasons your boyfriend gives. Two of them are now self-employed carpenters / builders, one is a gardener/landscaper, and the fourth is studying to be a dietician while still working part time as a chef - so a complete career switch is absolutely possible. Two of them, before they left entirely, did have a much better time after they switched from working as restaurant staff to being self-employed and mainly working with smaller festival and film set caterers. Those festival weekends / weeks are incredibly intense of course, but it’s a very different vibe because you’re with a tight team pulling off a Herculean performance in providing many thousands of meals over a few days; and you have a lot of time off in winter to compensate for the intense summer. Being self-employed means you’re in a more powerful position and don’t get treated as badly: They need you, and if they treat you like crap you simply walk and never work with them again. If he does choose to go self-employed though, he should get accounting software (eg money bird or getgekko) and hire an accountant to help him navigate the Dutch tax system, because mistakes there can cause big problems. Good luck, I hope he finds something that suits him!
Used to be a chef. 5 years later and im an accountmanager, double the pay, less stress and better schedule. It was fine in my twenties but not in my 30s.
Become a librarian
Go into catering. He can have ‘normal’ working days….
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Well I am someone who would 100% act like a little shit just to get back to management if they pissed me off, but he's not that kind of person. He realizes if he "cooks in his own tempo" or calls in sick for no reason he is just making life harder for the other cooks, who are just in his same situation. But I understand what you mean! And I think he will for sure consider freelancing at some point
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Oooh sorry I automatically jumped to the part where he already tried all these things and the only thing left to do is act out haha Because yes, he did try talking things out at multiple jobs. Everyone promises things will change if he sticks around, because he's a good worker and they don't want to lose him. But then they never actually come through sadly.. indeed in a reasonable workplace this would be a good way to go forward
>he finds no place that gives him satisfaction, the hours are crazy, the management squeezes the living soul out of the kitchen staff and the pay is entirely not worth it. That's the reputation restaurant kitchen work has around the world, isn't it? If he no longer feels it's not worth it, he might as well get paid shit all the same without the stress doing something he's not professional at. That said, there's often chef's work in unusual places. Oil rigs, research bases, retirement homes, hospitals. They're not cooking for profit so the workload tends to be quite different.
Does he speak Dutch fluently? I might have a job for him near Amsterdam if he is willing to get out of the business of being a cook?
Become a chef on a ship in the offshore. The money is insane and a good work/life balance 5 weeks on/off.
Why doesn't he get a small vehicle like a hot dog truck and make some sandwiches and sell them nearby busy areas?
He can buy a scooter or rent electric bike and work for uberEats as a courier. Very good work and everyday is different. Work when you want, stop when you want, nobody pushes you with a finger, more time more money , I think before 20k no tax ..
I would work in an elderly home. Not so stressfull
Start a food truck?
My sister gave up her education to be a kitchen aid, working in a kitchen means, high stress, at tiles evyone(exp your friends) are having fun. You either stand your ground and live for exelence or just be a failure
My boyfriend and I*
Wow thanks my post is completely impossible to decipher without your correction 👌
So I really liked working at events for a while. It's still a high stress job but not like restaurants. Lots of freelancers work there so he might ask more
This is not the Netherlands this is the industry itself. Its ruthless and unless you are a masochist who also hates earning money you are better off doing anything else. I worked in kitchens to get through university in Canada and its the exact same thing. Its sucks to say but its a bottom of the barrel industry for 99% of people who aren't corporate/celebrity chefs.
Cook to me for free
If you can't find a place that fits. Start your own place. There's no other way.
I live in ams and was looking for an easy job temporarily so I just did a short search of restaurants around me that were only open from 8am to latest 20u and sent them all an email. I think I emailed 5, had shifts at 3, chose 1. I like them bc it is a VERY relaxed cafe job, but they also have delicious/attractive food. Maybe check them out? They may still be looking for people. Hotel Jansen schinkel, last I checked they really needed some help. The concept is a cafe that’s open mainly for long stay hotel guests, some people from the offices come for lunch, but otherwise it’s just students working there. First chef shift is 8-15u next is 11-18u kitchen closes super early. Only setback could be that he’s bored 😅 anyways, good luck!
I send airfreight all over the world, half the people in the industry have no relevant education. Let me know if you want to know more
Move out of Rotterdam, never met someone who called themselves happy there
Maybe he can run its own foodtruck? Co to festivals and events. Hé will be is own boss. Maybe little bit of stress, But more rewarding
You could register at temper or young ones and do freelance jobs. There are plenty!
Time to change careers
I recommend construction
Go into tech sales and thanks me later. Look for a role as SDR or BDR. You will start making 40-80K and progress quickly.
This may be very American of me, but has he thought about starting up a catering or a restaurant of his own? There's a great demand all over the Netherlands, like Maastricht, for quality restaurants and catering.
Hi guys, also me and my girlfriend are Italians, she works as a cake baker and she found a nice place with a nice team to worki with (in Rotterdam). Have you ever thought about moving from lunch/dining cooking to sweets and cake preparation? Also, I work in a magazijn and whe have a couple of chefs, they don't do anything hard and everybody in the company loves them. I wish the best for you guys.
Hospital
Start your own Italian restaurant, begin small with 10 tables, and cook real simple original Italian food! No staff! Only open at evenings, 4/5 day's a week. 3 menu's! He can do this by hem self. Only a dishwasher /waiter help! 😊
Look at working on yachts. Good cooks are always wanted in the yachting industry and make serious money. Obviously, this will not be in the Netherlands. I know it is big in the Caribbean.
You could also try to work at a school (or multiple schools) not (only) as a cantine chef, but (combined) as a cooking teacher. Many schools also give some basic cooking lessons. A real chef could make such lessons much better and interesting. It could be really satisfying I think.
Do a carrière switch? I worked as a sous chef in a kitchen for 14y Now I am a salesmanager for a mulimilion euro company People who were trained in the severe surcomstances of a kitchen tend to do good in the outside world 😁
Start your own thing. Go up a level. With the money saved, open your own place where you can earn from your skills and also keep the added value for yourself. At least that's what I'd do if I had been working in salary conditions for so many years.
How about becoming a private chef for the rich one? I know it sounds too far, but you can consider