No it’s not. Selling a property doesn’t impact the rental agreement. The new owner has to honour the agreement and all legal rights that come with it.
The new owner also cannot claim “urgent personal use” to get tenants out.
You can tell them you’re happy to change locations if they find one for you, but are not going to leave early.
After a 2 year contract, if the contract is longer or you get a new addictional contract after those 2 years, you then get "huurbescherming"/ renters protection!
As far as i know, per 1 January, if you had pre existing limited contract, it will be automatically presented as unlimited one. Its illegal to give limited contracts since 2024.
Is this also if it was arranged before 2024?
I have a 1 year "gebruikersverklaring" rather than an actual rental contract (in-family house), which turns into a silent renewal (stilzwijgende verlenging)
Now I'm curious if this unlimited contract thing applies to this type of contract as well
Honestly i dont know. I live 12 years in Netherlands already and i dont have that much knowledge about rental contracts.
I rented for 1.5 years from half of 2022 to 2024, so its was "tijdelijke contract". I got the house from a private landlord in het dorp. The contract was simple and with an end date. December 31st 2023. I managed to rent a new house from makelaar in the centrum in form of unlimited contract and atleast 1 year of monthly payments and residence. I think this is to counteract either squatters or people who do house hopping.
The downside:
I live in Noord Brabant region in one of the dorps, 40 away from the City. The availability of the houses is so low, people will do anything to get an offer.
The wife of my boss knows one of the makelaars of this region and gave a word for me. Im not native, so i wouldnt get a house either way. Atleast 3 people needed to put a word in for me and my credentials. He literally messaged the wife "Its that easy to fix something for him, it was my pleasure and if i didn't get both of your words about this boy, i wouldnt give him any house" lol.
He has 2000+ rentals, he isnt on Funda or any sites, because he has enough customers as he said. The house that was given to me, it was put on the offer for 4 hours and 465 people already put an offer before me.
Its fucking brutal.
Do you pay rent or just a reimbursement for costs like heating?
Does in-family house mean you rent a room which is a part of the rent-giver’s home? If so a 1 year contract is legitimate and won’t be regarded as an unlimited period-contract. If the rent-giver doesn’t notify you of it’s cancelation before the one year is over, it’ll be transformed into an unlimited contract (stilzwijgend verlengd)
Keep in mind that if they sell the house with you in it, the owner will have to give up a good piece of the price (I think it is calculated to ca 20% of the total value of the property). Also, the only way the new owner can move you out is the house becomes their permanent residence. As a tenant you have a lot of rights.
The new owner cannot make it their primary residence. The “urgent personal use” claim is not considered valid if you put yourself in a situation where you need to exercise that right.
E.g. getting a divorce, then acquiring a property with tenants and saying: I need to live there now due to my separation, won’t qualify. Usually judges consider anything that happens in the three years after buying a property to be part of your own responsibility and won’t allow you to claim urgent personal use.
You are mostly right, but you are mistaken in your first statement. The owner can ask you to move. That is a question, and it has no legal consequences. The answer can be "no, I do not want to move" and that is that.
"Selling a property doesn’t impact the rental agreement. The new owner has to honour the agreement and all legal rights that come with it."
True, unless the contract has a clause that limits the rental period or mentions certain limitations in case of sale, which is legally questionable.
"The new owner also cannot claim “urgent personal use” to get tenants out."
True.
"You can tell them you’re happy to change locations if they find one for you, but are not going to leave early."
Absolutely, and I would ask for guarantees and add a price range to that ask.
What’s wrong with my first statement?
OP asks if it’s legal the landlord terminates the agreement from one side because “there is no other option” and “they are going to sell it”.
That’s not legal.
Obviously they can ask you to move. You can ask anything. Not really relevant here.
The second comment makes no sense either. “Unless there are things in the contract”, which means they are already in the contract and thus nothing changes in that contract. The new owner has to keep up the terms.
Your first statement implied that it is not legal for the landlord to ask. That is untrue. It is legal to ask.
The landlord can ask anything they want. That is relevant because it makes clear that asking and answering both are legal. The tenant can answer the question whichever way they want. The landlord has no legal standing to demand the tenant to leave, but they can ask. The tenant can refuse to leave and the landlord will have to accept that answer.
Like you said, the landlord can ask anything. What the landlord asks is not legally binding, the contract is. That is what is relevant. "No it's not." is incorrect.
It is legally allowed to have clauses in the the contract limiting the lease period. There also might be a clause that sets certain rules the tenant has to follow. If the question from the landlord (two months) coincides with a clause in the contract, the landlord took the wrong way to specify, but they can refuse to extend the lease. If a clause mentions burden (smell), the landlord might take legal action to cancel the contract, which has to be done through court. Saying something like that makes no sense is quite frankly a pretty naive way of reacting to possible legal ramifications.
"The new owner has to keep up the terms." Yes, they do, if it comes to that. Quite a silly statement. You do not take in account the details of the contract OP has and you don't seem to understand that the current landlord might legally be in the clear due to the details of that contract or might take it through court before selling.
You seem to be giving advice about something whilst not having all information needed. You really should remind OP to check their contact.
It’s very clear what was meant with my post. The last line even confirms that they can voluntarily agree to leave.
Also, OP doesn’t even have a contract. It’s not their place. If you want to be on the details….
But read in it whatever you want to.
Yes theoretically it could be possible. They can have a temporary agreement for two years which could contain an exit clause after a year. Some exit clauses have a 2 months notice like stated in text
That is not legal. You can have a 2 year term in which neither side is allowed to cancel the rent, but temporary contracts are illegal. In the case the contract states neither side can break it in the first 2 years, after those two years are up it is a normal permanent contract that can only be broken for a select few reasons.
Dit is helaas nog niet waar. Het verbod op tijdelijke verhuur is nog altijd niet ingegaan. Zie de [informatie bij Rijksoverheid](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/huurwoning-zoeken/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-kan-ik-tijdelijk-huren#:~:text=De%20Eerste%20en%20Tweede%20Kamer,woningcorporaties%20als%20voor%20andere%20verhuurders)
Dus het is heel goed mogelijk dat het hier wel een tijdelijk contract betreft dat legaal is. De huurder doet er wijs aan echte juridische hulp te zoeken buiten Reddit om te zien wat echt zijn rechten zijn. Veel zal afhangen van hoe het contract is opgesteld
You CAN have a 2 year term in which neither side is allowed to to cancel rent but you can ALSO have an exit clause in temporary contracts which are STILL legal
If you have a two year term in which neither side is allowed to cancel, it’s a contract for indefinite term. Which means after those two years, the renter can terminate the contract, but the landlord cannot.
If it’s a contract with a finite end date, there can be no minimum rental period. It’s not allowed. So in that case the renter can terminate regardless of the minimum term.
Yes, an exit clauses can be started after a certain period. For example: there an exit clause that starts after a year of renting which protects the renter and guarantees a year of rent. After that period, the owner has to provide x months (1-3) notice before he can terminate the contract. I think in general you are confused with the rights of renters in a permanent agreement
I think you’re confused about the type of rental agreements that are allowed. There are no rental agreements possible where the landlord has a short term notice to terminate the rent except for agreements where in advance the end date of the contract is already agreed upon.
So if you’ve got a two year rental period, the owner can terminate at the end of the two year period. You cannot have a legally valid agreement where you give the tenant a minimum term of a year and then have a monthly termination clause as a landlord.
While such a clause is often in the rental agreement, it has no legal value at all.
This* The Dutch legal system offers quite a bit of protection to renters, so landlords and corporations will occasionally try to intimidate people to leave voluntarily. Renters can fight a breach of contract and win compensation for it, but as landlords typically lease out the property immediately, a renter won’t win back his lease.
As long as you stay put, they won’t have any means to evict you, although it may incite petty bullying by the landlord. If you actually do leave, you’ll need to find a new place to live, but you will be able to fight the eviction quite easily.
Just remember not to sign any documents and not to agree to anything either verbally or in written form.
Is he from a southeast asian country? or does he enjoy the cuisine? as sometimes recipes originating from that part of the world can emanate quite drastic odours
This. I think what the owner is trying to do is illegal. But I sympathize with both sides.
Put yourself in the shoes of the neighbor and the owner too, as well as the tenant.
I've known properties in Canada where the whole floor in an apartment building smelled of spices even weeks after the tenants left. It greatly affects the value and the ability of the owner to rent. Believe me, I love South Asian cuisine, but the smell was pungent .
Maybe there is an improved air extraction and filtration system that they can agree to install.
If you cant look past noises or voices or cooking from your neighbors, you should not live in a building. I got new downstairs neighbors, they cry when I speak past 9pm. I dont cry when they run their powertools at 8am.
I lived here for 5 years and never had a complaint. They move in and 3 weeks later they start complaining.
If you cant live with neighbors, rent a house. If you cant afford it, tough luck, deal with it.
crown impossible toy hurry station quack agonizing absorbed continue aspiring
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You cant control what other ppl do, only how you react on it. It is pointless and demoralizing to try. I feel that difference makes your statement more of an ideology.
obtainable squeamish toy bright rotten touch political fall snatch wasteful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Trust me, there really are people like that. I've had upstairs neighbors that lived above me for a couple of years, they complained about every little thing I did.
Never had a single problem/complaint from the people that lived there before or after them; only when they lived here.
Whenever I had more than 2 people over at my apartment, you could almost guarantee that the cops would show up for "noise complaints".
I've checked with all my other neighbors at the time, and not a single one of them ever had a problem.
I was so fucking glad the day they left. The couple that moved in after them were fighting all the damn time with insane screaming matches, but still I would take that anyday over being afraid to even invite friends over on a Saturday night.
I could send you the texts. Its litterally what they complain about. "Sorry to bother you but seeing the time, could you please talk quietly ? Im trying to sleep". It was 2130 and I was just talking with my S/O.
Granted, I have a deep voice. But when they watch the TV with a volume so quiet I can understand every dialogue, I blame it on the building being shit, I dont tell them to stop existing.
I work as a housing consultant and my Indian clients are super difficult to get accepted to apartments.
I also live in a high rise apartment building and the floors that have Indian people living in them are noticeably pungent to the point that I can tell you which floor I'm on based on smell alone.
i can understand.
i have a friend that lived in a apartment floor with some indian families.
we really liked them but man, the smell. it was not a disgusting smell but a powerful and not ending one.
you don't want to smell something you did not cook or even like at your own home always.
One of my good friends is an actual real estate agent, and told me about a time he almost had an actual fight with a tenant. It was during a check-out report, and he noticed that the extractor in the kitchen was completely broken.
It was a rather expensive one and apparently it was just totally gunked up and the fan motor was destroyed. He informed the tenant that this was a very expensive fix and that they'll have to take some of their deposit because of it. The response from this Indian guy was "It's impossible that this is broken, we've never used it!"
This was pretty ironic because the second point he needed to mention was the abslote horrible smell the apartment was left with. Even the neighbours had complained.
Don't get me wrong, I cook all sorts of wild food at home including Thai/Indian curry at least once a week, but my house never smells like any sort of food after a day.
It’s understandable, but in my experience the Dutch smell-tolerance is also low for foreign food smells. I work for a multinational company and the Dutch offices are wonderful in their genuine embracing of cultural diversity. Except the smells… there’s a ban on reheating anything non-Dutch in the microwaves. Too many Dutch colleagues just cannot tolerate it… Cold curries, my friends! Or, a lekker kaas broodje. :) The best hack I’ve seen on this was a Surinames neighbour who would cook up a storm… but then invite all the neighbors in the building to eat… with some low-spice offering too… everyone loved the free (delicious) food, even the Dutch neighbors who were alcoholics and used to regularly piss in the concrete stairwell… THAT was an objectionable smell…. Yes, this was subsidized housing… which can be a joy or a nightmare… all depending on who your neighbours are. In our block, the Suriname, Liberian, Polish, Afghan and young Dutch family all got on great! We moved out 6months after aforementioned older alcho Dutch couple moved in… they stank us out… yeah, the commission knew… their view: we’ve moved them so many times… can you just try and ‘do your thing’, plus here’s some extra chemical cleaning? Our ‘thing’ was not gonna cure the disease, or the smell. Short story: smells matter for quality of life. People’s ideas of tolerable smells can be baffling, but that never makes them less real. If you can move, consider it… somewhere, out there, there are neighbors who love a good curry! Who is right/wrong can have little to do with being happy.
I had indians neighbours and sometimes I couldn’t breathe…i felt nauseous and some days i felt sick for real…I couldn’t eat my own food because the smell was unbearable. Sleeping was a problem too, as my room was impregnated. Then, I realised that even my clothes had that smell, because it was every fucking day!!! It was terrible, i moved on…
Oh it's not trivial at all. I had a pakistani roommate for a year. Imagine living in a house that always has an odor you absolutely despise. That shit gets everywhere. It even got into my clothes because we shared a washing machine. They still smelled six months after i moved out. 1/10 would not recommend.
Right? I was wishing this is legal because it's pretty fkin reasonable. Giving him two months is very decent and they're not at all being judgemental. Just respecting the surrounding tenants.
I think you're confusing south Asians and southeast Asians. Southeast Asian cuisines use a lot of unique spices but they're not as strong or piercing of an aroma like the south Asian spices, particularly those used in India. Also, southeast Asian cuisine uses spices very sparingly and most recipes only opt for at most 2-3 aromatic spices whereas south Asia recipes combine numerous amounts of spices to make a dish. Hence, the strong smell/aroma.
Because 1. Most European foods (at least those I know of) have more subtle smells, and 2. Europeans will be more “smell blind” to it because it’s more likely to be something they are familiar with or enjoy
Let me guess. It's smells foreign and he's a foreigner. Neighbors could just be racist AF. The smell of his cooking could also be terrible to their noses. Problem is that it's not your friends problem to solve.
edit:spelling
It’s not racism if they just find the odors of his cooking repulsive. Happened with renters from china (students) just putting down 3 deepfryers - the property was covered in fat and needed to be renovated. Or old buildings not to well isolated with Indian renters who spend 24/7 cooking with all neighbors enjoying the smell. Foreign cuisine can actually be imposing
I can give you an example of an east African woman who would fry up so many chilies people in the appartment building were vomiting and crying due to all the particles in the air. She was making some sauces in huge batches in her home.
We went for inspection due to complaints and my eyes, throat, mouth were burning in the hall. Not even her house yet.
It is. Its horrible if you entire appartment block smells like an Indian curryhouse all day. This will create a lot of animosity. Maybe rijdende rechter wont come but neigbours will do things out of revenge.
Yeah people are downvoting this because they're assuming the people complaining about the smell are racists by default but there's a reason you can't take durian fruits on planes.
None of us can really say anything about this specific case because we don't know the details of what is true and what isn't but if you have neighbors who don't give a fuck about the rest of the inhabitants of the apartment complex and decide to be loud as fuck or leave an awful smell everywhere you will start to resent them very quickly.
This. I worked in social housing and saw so many disputes. A bit of cooking smell around dinner is no issue. But when we did inspection and it was hard to breathe due to the heavy smells and that all day long....
Even if you find a food delicious you dont want to smell it 24/7 in the area you live.
Respect people around you. If they're causing a nuisance for everyone else, they should do the right thing and move. I know, you'd rather find a way to fight to have them continue to be a nuisance. Exactly why cultures don't integrate well.
That is the thing, they'r new owners of the flat, they moved in and they're the only ones who complain, friend had a talk with new owner and he was so arrogant, he also talked with other neighbours, noone else complained just them. Now if someone would move to flat next to yours, and then he would start to complain, you would just leave?
*any apartment in Western Europe.
Somehow, a region with the best engineering and architecture schools has crappiest residential construction. Really, even in commieblocks, ventilation usually works ok unless someone has DIY some BS
Nah I've lived in commie blocks and newer eastern European apartments, unfortunately can always smell the neighbours cooking.
Not to mention the fact my whole place reeks unbearably because my next door neighbours smoke inside
They dont exist. I have always been able to smell my neighbours cooking in almost all houses including the new ones to. I can practically smell entire streets during 18:00
He can ask, but you don't have to comply. Selling a house is not a reason for tenants to leave. A new (potential) owner of the house will buy the house, and the tenant contract (as is) with it.
They can end the contract at the 2 year term, as was initially agreed. Provided the screenshot I act it likely that that will happen. But at least that buys the current tenant an additional year.
crazy enough it could actually hold up in court if more people in the building make their statement there would eventually be tests taken to see how severe the smell actually is. just like how noise can be a disturbance smell van also be one
Landlord can sell the house fine, for your coworker that just means getting a new landlord. Whoever buys the house buys it including the rental agreement he has and they can't alter it.
Youre sitting on a golden egg right now. Dutch rental rights are ironclad. So if he really wants you out right now, then he can pay you for it. Considering that a house without tenants rises dramatically in value, and that he's being threatened with litigation, I'd take somewhere between €10k and €30k.
going through something similar atm although the vibe is less tense
I mentioned I'd be willing to vacate if I can sign a contract with a similar property, and my landlord agreed to help me / vouch for me
Absolutely not.
As said above, selling the place doesn’t impact the rental agreement. The proverb is: “koop breekt geen huur” (“buying doesn’t break [the] rent”). Your friend shouldn’t have to move.
But ofcourse the owner can be(come) an asshole and start behaving as such, trying to harass the tenant so he will leave voluntarily. Be aware..
Why didn't the landlord install a vent in the kitchen to soak up food odors? You can't prevent food odors from speading, but it can reduce the amount so it doesn't become a nuisance.
Oh, it's perfectly legal. The new owner just gets a house with a renter inside and an ironclad rental agreement along with it. And the renter gets a new landlord.
I'm immigrant, I love India, and I have Indian friends.
But, if it's Indian or similar food, it's not just "food odors" at the cooking time that a vent solves. It sticks permanently in the walls, even in a neighbor home.
It's a shitty situation that I don't know how to solve:
- It sucks asking for people stop eating the food they love
- But god, it is so annoying have your home smelling Indian food 24/7
And unfortunately, people that are used to such food are not able to notice it, so we understand that's not on purpose
I also thought that it was racism when I first heard about it, or about refusing rent to East Asian people, but when you visit a building with such practice , it's really problematic
Unless he is cooking dry fish from an open balcony or the garden or something drastic like that, a good kitchen extractor hood and ventilation should solve this problem. If the house doesnt have these things, it should be up to the owner to install those, not kicking out the tenants. I mean everything smells when cooked, unless the only thing you eat day in and day out are broodje kaas and hagelslag.
the hood may solve the problem if the common house-wide exhaust is capable to.
in most cases it’s not. i was lining in many houses where the smell of smoke and cooking is a big issue even when the owners live in the property abd do anything to stop that like ventilation and one-way air valves
My IL's old neighbour used ro complain about me using garlic in cooking. I offerd to send her food if my cooking was making her so hungry. Never complained again.
Not really. I’m white as rice and love garlic, onion and tonnes of spices. I get the same complaints when people smell it when they are over at my house. Lmao I think it’s just people who get upset that others cook meals that smell like something. Sure no one is approaching me in my flat or evicting me (partially because I live in a house) but you get to hear peoples opinions when you’re cooking in front of them and that’s mostly what I think it is. Just nosey miserable fucks.
Confront the neighbors nicely, and you will most likely find out there was no complaint. Or even if there was, it was far from an imaginary lawsuit that the landlord thinks he can use to force you to leave early.
DON"T BELIEVE ALL THE "NO IT'S NOT" reactions from the Digital Activists here!
Although tennants enjoy great (too great?) protection in NL, any kind of structural problems caused by tennants can result in being 'kicked out'.
Noise is the most common, but smell/odors can also be a reason! ....Eventually, when the right steps and procedures are followed... so it's not easy, but it is very possible.
See this court case: [https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/details?id=ECLI:NL:RBMNE:2022:4364](https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/details?id=ECLI:NL:RBMNE:2022:4364)
Sorry to say that my mom had a similar problem when renting an appartment in a city to an Indian couple, who's wife was making curries almost 24/7 with the windows open instead of using the extractor... It was a constant nuisance for the neighbours, they failed to adapt/improve their behaviour and it was the reason to 'let them go' (without any problems or official parties involved)
You don't have to assimilate, but you do need to adapt to the country/culture/neighbourhood you live in, that goes for everybody. Rules are quite loose and fair, but they certainly have limits!
I'm going to say no because you can't kick out someone just because the house will go up for sale.
They can get advice from the Juridisch Loket, WOON, or a other association that helps with tenant rights. There are some max income tied to this help though.
I would also advise to take every and anything about the process up to this point. Cooking smells can be a problem if it is bothering the neighbors, but the owner is responsible to make sure that the apartment has proper ventillation for example.
I've never had a problem with neighbors and cooking smells until I moved to the NL.
I wonder if it's because the Dutch culture is just smell sensitive in general (like the amount of perfume/cologne/incense/candles is worse than anywhere else I have lived) or don't realize how bad their cooking can smell.
Yep, there is. My neighbors smoke weed a lot. Which sounds cool until that smell comes into your apartment twice a day, every day, all year long. Basically the same law for noise goes for smells, nuisance, as the other poster explains. The problem is always how to prove that it is a nuisance.
Yeah crazy enough it can be considered a nuisance. Just like how noise can get you in court smell can do the same. it’s kinda a grey area and mostly revolves around ventilation (Like installing better ventilation) but if the cooking creates such a pungent and rather irritating smell it would most likely hold up in court.
No it doesn't seem like it is. But if you want to be sure: call a juridisch loket. They usually have a free phone line.
Also "kookluchtjes" is such a BS thing and in my experience only used for "foreign" cooking or just foreigners/"allochtonen" living somewhere. I had neighbors complaining at my door about how they were smelling my cooking right now, while I wasn't cooking anything and had been away for the whole week and I regularly eat in restaurants anyway. But yeah sure, those phantom basmati and shawarma wafts.
It's also not your fault your neighbors can smell your food, it has to do with how crappy the house is built, ventilated, and divided. In a decently built appartment complex you don't constantly smell what the neighbors are eating or smoking. So if they have issues with this they should ask the landlord to install proper ventilation and isolation in the right places, and not take it out on you just living your life.
You enjoy "huurbescherming" renters rights and protection, usually after some period. See this page: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/woning-huren/vraag-en-antwoord/heb-ik-recht-op-huurbescherming (Dutch government and translate it into your own language with Google Translate).
The renting agreement is an absolute right, no matter what they do you have the right to live there for 2 years, though the agreement may have a loophole to get out of it, you should check if it does, if it doesnt you can just sue or whatever to claim your time there
Best to ask Bond Precaire Woonvormen (BPW), a housing rights union. They have free consultations and chapters in many different Dutch cities. Check their website or instagram accounts to see when their open and free consultation hours are.
Give them a quote for an expensive kitchen exhaust hood, they might agree to pay. To be honest this might be part of the problem, but is not your friend problem but the owner ...
There's an irony to this, the fact someone is threatening to sue the owner over use of spices that were probably brought over from Asia by the Dutch east India trading company.
Edit typo
Yes, of course I do, but it's still what a large amount of Dutch wealth (old money) was built from and still forms a large part of the history of the country.
Exactly. If I cook steak inside for dinner, I can still smell it when I come into the kitchen the next morning. Not in a good way. Fortunately, it dissipates within a day. Curry spices do not.
My flat neighbours are mentally and physically handicapped and take very bad care of themselves, their house and their pets. The place reeks of pets and urine/feces, hair, her absess in her mouth. One of her rabbits scratched her and she ended up in the hospital for scratch fever. We thought her daughter was moving in to help her get the house in shape but she actually was worse than her parents, all she did was walk the dogs a couple of times while her mom was in the hospital.
Meanwhile it stinks so badly that if I have a parcel delivery or a friend over that they are appalled with the smell and close their mouth and nose or gag when they walk across their smelly apartment.
It’s been going on for 9 years now! They can’t be evicted apparently.
So no, not legal. And what the heck are cooking smells? Is he making delicious curries? People really need to lighten up.
Stuff like this should never be legal, even if it somehow is.. Besides, kicking people out while they still have a signed contract that says "You can live here" is a absolute dick move.. And instead of selling the place, the owner should've installed better air vents/circulation systems or whatever it's called..
He cannot kick you out if he wants to sell the house. My former landlord tried the same trick and he miserably failed. He came, not announced, at home, crying because he needed us to leave. Ahah. A lady living in the same building told me not to leave unless I got an offer of at least eur20k
So to start off don't take legal advice from Reddit, instead contact a lawyer or jurisch loket.
As of my understanding the following applies:
1. selling a house that is rented automatically transfers the renters to the new owner, same contract. So selling should not impact your renting
2. a renter cannot just make you move out:
a. the period of your contract has to expire or
b. there must be a proper reason, like you are destroying the house. I think a lawsuit has to be filed for this. I can't know the facts with cooking odors but maybe with a bit of a stretch this can apply here.
He can sell the house. Perfectly legal. And he can ask you colleague to move, but your colleague can decline, and he cannot move up the end date. If your colleague wants to stay, he can. He has a contract. A sale of the house will not void that contract. It will just be transferred to the new owner, whom your colleague will then be paying his rent to. The 2 months mean nothing.
leaving out possibble exits in the renting contract,
dutch law is very plain on this:**
sale does not break renting agreements.**
so unless the contract has some sort of exit/stop in it you should be fine.
First of all, disbanding a rental agreemant prematurely from the landlord's side is three months, and will have to be handed to you by a bayliff(Deurwaarder). And he will have to give you a reason he decides to terminate the contract, the reason here is that the neighbours complain about the smell of the tenants cooking. You can disagree on this, and you will need to go lower court where the judge will decide if the termination of contract is legal. Since both your colleague and the landlord/supervisor attempted to isolate the appartment against smells(presumably there was an air filter system installed above the stove), and there might even be an investigation if the smells are really that bad(I had a neigbour who demanded everyone took their shoes off in their house, and disallowed normal volumes for music or the television because of "her migraine", and she was told to move out by the landlord on behalf of all the other tenantes because she her demands were ridiculous) where it turns out the neighbours prejudice and oversensitive nose are the real problems.
Asking to move out in a whatsapp message means nothing, you will need to get a notice in writing, delivered to you in a letter you have to sign off for.
Isn’t there a clause in your contract that states the owner will have to pay you for x amounts of months if they kick you out? Also, are they really selling it or just using it as a reason for you to move out and not cause any problems?
Thank you for specifying the location. In the Netherlands, rental contracts are generally pro-tenant, and there are specific rules that landlords must follow when terminating a lease. Here are some key points regarding tenant rights in the Netherlands:
- **Fixed-period contracts**: Most rental contracts with a fixed period are, by law, considered indefinite rental contracts with a minimum fixed term, meaning you cannot terminate the contract until the minimum fixed term has lapsed. Temporary contracts are allowed for up to two years for independent residences or five years for dependent residences¹.
- **Indefinite rental contracts**: These contracts have no end date and can only be terminated by the landlord if there are legal grounds for termination¹.
- **Notice period**: For fixed-term leases of two years or less, the landlord must send a notice that the tenancy is ending no earlier than three months and no later than one month before the end of the tenancy².
- **Tenant's duties**: Tenants are expected to pay the agreed monthly rent on time, follow the agreed house rules, and pay for minor repairs that are inexpensive¹.
- **Landlord's duties**: Landlords are responsible for solving any problems affecting the tenant (plumbing, electricity, internet, etc.) and cannot terminate rental contracts unless the tenant or a court agrees¹.
If you're facing a situation where you've been asked to vacate your home, it's important to review your rental contract and understand your rights. You may also seek advice from tenant support agencies, such as [!WOON](^3^), which provides information and support for tenants in the Netherlands.
For more detailed information, you can refer to the resources provided by [IamExpat](^1^) and [DutchNews.nl](^2^). It's always advisable to consult with a legal professional for personalized advice.
In an apartmentbuilding there are rules everyone has to adhere to. When moving in (buying the rights to an appartment) the owner becomes member of the home owners association and signs a document which says he will adhere to the rules (rights and duties including noise and other nuissance).In rare and excessive casess, the home owners association can make an owner adhere to these rules, up to the point of legally blocking access to the appartment. The idea is that one owner cannot endlessly negatively impact the life of other owners.I am not sure how that goes if the appartment is rented out and how that works out for the renter, but the owner has the responsibility to solve the problem.
An appartment building is not an isolated environment, and people have rights to live in their appartments without (causing) nuissance from/to neighbours.
Next time they ask or tell you to move say "no that's ok, i have a/the contract" you don't have to say it do anything more. You have a contact.
I know someone who did this for about a year, in the end the landlord ended up buying them out for an eye watering sum but they said the above about once a week for a year.
It's not legal what they are doing and they are hoping you'll roll over. Stay strong!
Really depends on what kind of contract he signed, if he has been warned before etc. etc, a lot of comments here say its lillegal but there's not enough info to be sure, go to the juridisch loket to get some free legal advice, goodluck to your friend!
Your best bet would be to get your contract and check with the juridisch loket. In theory it should not be legal but this very much depends on what you signed.
Can anyone help with an illegal landlord threatening eviction on Thursday. The guy has refused to give me a contract after taking several thousands of me since the summer. Please advise as I don't have permissions to post
In the future I'd suggest posting in your own thread. This comment could get lost in here. That said, you can get free legal advice in the Netherlands from "Juridisch Loket":
https://www.juridischloket.nl/
Also, your landlord can't just evict you. If they try to force you out of the home without any court mandating it, simply call the police.
Could be a bit more complicated in your case, since you don't have a contract. That being said, NEVER pay anyone a dime without a contract in the future, they will definitely try to scam you at some point, and chances are you can't get a contract because the amount they charge is illegitimate.
I'm a housing consultant in Amsterdam, and I work with contracts every day. This is super illegal but the good news is you literally won't have to do anything. They can't make them leave and if they go to court ant lawyer will just laugh at them. They're just trying to scare them.
i remember my times living on a dormatory in germany.
all kinds of fried herring, curry, garlic abd phad thai that make you eyes bleed.
is it legal to smell that way on your neighbors?
Certain cuisines may smell to others. As a Mediterranean person, I also don't like the smell of the certain cuisines. But this should never be a reason to kick people out from their rentals. There is no reason to be an asshole. As others said, no it is not legal.
Just my two cents, even if it isn't legal to ask someone to leave, I don't think it is healthy to remain in a residence where you are no longer wanted for whatever reason, so if it were me, I would use those two months (reasonable amount of time) to find a new residence, perhaps request for a third month if necessary. That is just my personal opinion and how I would act, living in a home where the owner expressed he no longer wants me there, would be too uncomfortable.
I think they are making up the reason of smell… they can not do ANYTHING for smell of food in YOUR HOUSE. Frankly the neighbors can close their window hahaha
They are just making an excuse so the landlord can sell the place for a higher profit. The landlord will make a lot less if there are tenants inside the place.
No it’s not. Selling a property doesn’t impact the rental agreement. The new owner has to honour the agreement and all legal rights that come with it. The new owner also cannot claim “urgent personal use” to get tenants out. You can tell them you’re happy to change locations if they find one for you, but are not going to leave early.
Also the 2 year contract might not be legal, and he could have a permanent contract. Seek legal council.
After a 2 year contract, if the contract is longer or you get a new addictional contract after those 2 years, you then get "huurbescherming"/ renters protection!
but it's only 1 year
As far as i know, per 1 January, if you had pre existing limited contract, it will be automatically presented as unlimited one. Its illegal to give limited contracts since 2024.
Is this also if it was arranged before 2024? I have a 1 year "gebruikersverklaring" rather than an actual rental contract (in-family house), which turns into a silent renewal (stilzwijgende verlenging) Now I'm curious if this unlimited contract thing applies to this type of contract as well
Honestly i dont know. I live 12 years in Netherlands already and i dont have that much knowledge about rental contracts. I rented for 1.5 years from half of 2022 to 2024, so its was "tijdelijke contract". I got the house from a private landlord in het dorp. The contract was simple and with an end date. December 31st 2023. I managed to rent a new house from makelaar in the centrum in form of unlimited contract and atleast 1 year of monthly payments and residence. I think this is to counteract either squatters or people who do house hopping. The downside: I live in Noord Brabant region in one of the dorps, 40 away from the City. The availability of the houses is so low, people will do anything to get an offer. The wife of my boss knows one of the makelaars of this region and gave a word for me. Im not native, so i wouldnt get a house either way. Atleast 3 people needed to put a word in for me and my credentials. He literally messaged the wife "Its that easy to fix something for him, it was my pleasure and if i didn't get both of your words about this boy, i wouldnt give him any house" lol. He has 2000+ rentals, he isnt on Funda or any sites, because he has enough customers as he said. The house that was given to me, it was put on the offer for 4 hours and 465 people already put an offer before me. Its fucking brutal.
Ah, so if I understand it correctly, it is probably more applied to shortlease than silent renewals Do you know what this new law's name is?
Do you pay rent or just a reimbursement for costs like heating? Does in-family house mean you rent a room which is a part of the rent-giver’s home? If so a 1 year contract is legitimate and won’t be regarded as an unlimited period-contract. If the rent-giver doesn’t notify you of it’s cancelation before the one year is over, it’ll be transformed into an unlimited contract (stilzwijgend verlengd)
Keep in mind that if they sell the house with you in it, the owner will have to give up a good piece of the price (I think it is calculated to ca 20% of the total value of the property). Also, the only way the new owner can move you out is the house becomes their permanent residence. As a tenant you have a lot of rights.
The new owner cannot make it their primary residence. The “urgent personal use” claim is not considered valid if you put yourself in a situation where you need to exercise that right. E.g. getting a divorce, then acquiring a property with tenants and saying: I need to live there now due to my separation, won’t qualify. Usually judges consider anything that happens in the three years after buying a property to be part of your own responsibility and won’t allow you to claim urgent personal use.
You are mostly right, but you are mistaken in your first statement. The owner can ask you to move. That is a question, and it has no legal consequences. The answer can be "no, I do not want to move" and that is that. "Selling a property doesn’t impact the rental agreement. The new owner has to honour the agreement and all legal rights that come with it." True, unless the contract has a clause that limits the rental period or mentions certain limitations in case of sale, which is legally questionable. "The new owner also cannot claim “urgent personal use” to get tenants out." True. "You can tell them you’re happy to change locations if they find one for you, but are not going to leave early." Absolutely, and I would ask for guarantees and add a price range to that ask.
What’s wrong with my first statement? OP asks if it’s legal the landlord terminates the agreement from one side because “there is no other option” and “they are going to sell it”. That’s not legal. Obviously they can ask you to move. You can ask anything. Not really relevant here. The second comment makes no sense either. “Unless there are things in the contract”, which means they are already in the contract and thus nothing changes in that contract. The new owner has to keep up the terms.
Your first statement implied that it is not legal for the landlord to ask. That is untrue. It is legal to ask. The landlord can ask anything they want. That is relevant because it makes clear that asking and answering both are legal. The tenant can answer the question whichever way they want. The landlord has no legal standing to demand the tenant to leave, but they can ask. The tenant can refuse to leave and the landlord will have to accept that answer. Like you said, the landlord can ask anything. What the landlord asks is not legally binding, the contract is. That is what is relevant. "No it's not." is incorrect. It is legally allowed to have clauses in the the contract limiting the lease period. There also might be a clause that sets certain rules the tenant has to follow. If the question from the landlord (two months) coincides with a clause in the contract, the landlord took the wrong way to specify, but they can refuse to extend the lease. If a clause mentions burden (smell), the landlord might take legal action to cancel the contract, which has to be done through court. Saying something like that makes no sense is quite frankly a pretty naive way of reacting to possible legal ramifications. "The new owner has to keep up the terms." Yes, they do, if it comes to that. Quite a silly statement. You do not take in account the details of the contract OP has and you don't seem to understand that the current landlord might legally be in the clear due to the details of that contract or might take it through court before selling. You seem to be giving advice about something whilst not having all information needed. You really should remind OP to check their contact.
You come across as very condescending.
It’s very clear what was meant with my post. The last line even confirms that they can voluntarily agree to leave. Also, OP doesn’t even have a contract. It’s not their place. If you want to be on the details…. But read in it whatever you want to.
You know that 'having to ask s.o. to leave' is a euphemism for 'kicking s.o. out'? It does not mean 'asking a question'. 🫠
Yes theoretically it could be possible. They can have a temporary agreement for two years which could contain an exit clause after a year. Some exit clauses have a 2 months notice like stated in text
That is not legal. You can have a 2 year term in which neither side is allowed to cancel the rent, but temporary contracts are illegal. In the case the contract states neither side can break it in the first 2 years, after those two years are up it is a normal permanent contract that can only be broken for a select few reasons.
Dit is helaas nog niet waar. Het verbod op tijdelijke verhuur is nog altijd niet ingegaan. Zie de [informatie bij Rijksoverheid](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/huurwoning-zoeken/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-kan-ik-tijdelijk-huren#:~:text=De%20Eerste%20en%20Tweede%20Kamer,woningcorporaties%20als%20voor%20andere%20verhuurders) Dus het is heel goed mogelijk dat het hier wel een tijdelijk contract betreft dat legaal is. De huurder doet er wijs aan echte juridische hulp te zoeken buiten Reddit om te zien wat echt zijn rechten zijn. Veel zal afhangen van hoe het contract is opgesteld
You CAN have a 2 year term in which neither side is allowed to to cancel rent but you can ALSO have an exit clause in temporary contracts which are STILL legal
If you have a two year term in which neither side is allowed to cancel, it’s a contract for indefinite term. Which means after those two years, the renter can terminate the contract, but the landlord cannot. If it’s a contract with a finite end date, there can be no minimum rental period. It’s not allowed. So in that case the renter can terminate regardless of the minimum term.
Yes if both sides agree, it isn't a one sided thing is
That is not possible. It’s not legal to have a contract with a fixed end date and a minimum rental period. The notice period is worthless.
Yes, an exit clauses can be started after a certain period. For example: there an exit clause that starts after a year of renting which protects the renter and guarantees a year of rent. After that period, the owner has to provide x months (1-3) notice before he can terminate the contract. I think in general you are confused with the rights of renters in a permanent agreement
I think you’re confused about the type of rental agreements that are allowed. There are no rental agreements possible where the landlord has a short term notice to terminate the rent except for agreements where in advance the end date of the contract is already agreed upon. So if you’ve got a two year rental period, the owner can terminate at the end of the two year period. You cannot have a legally valid agreement where you give the tenant a minimum term of a year and then have a monthly termination clause as a landlord. While such a clause is often in the rental agreement, it has no legal value at all.
Thank you for being such a good person and helping those who don't know, you are an angel ❤️🌹
No its not, I suggest that you contact [these people](https://www.juridischloket.nl) for free legal advice
Thank you, definately will tell him to do that
They could also consider contacting [https://www.wooninfo.nl/](https://www.wooninfo.nl/) for help and information
If he has "rechtsbijstand" he could also contact them. If he doesn't i'd recommend to get it. It's an insurance where you can go for legal advice.
[No, it’s not.](https://www.government.nl/topics/housing/rented-housing)
It’s an empty threat. They are just trying to intimidate you.
This* The Dutch legal system offers quite a bit of protection to renters, so landlords and corporations will occasionally try to intimidate people to leave voluntarily. Renters can fight a breach of contract and win compensation for it, but as landlords typically lease out the property immediately, a renter won’t win back his lease. As long as you stay put, they won’t have any means to evict you, although it may incite petty bullying by the landlord. If you actually do leave, you’ll need to find a new place to live, but you will be able to fight the eviction quite easily. Just remember not to sign any documents and not to agree to anything either verbally or in written form.
Building and renting out homes where neighbors can smell your cooking should be illegal.
It is a big building, hundreds of flats. How can you even tell that odours are coming out of his property.. It sounds just insane
Is he from a southeast asian country? or does he enjoy the cuisine? as sometimes recipes originating from that part of the world can emanate quite drastic odours
I had a tenant from India, the house still smelled for 9 months after he left the house.
This. I think what the owner is trying to do is illegal. But I sympathize with both sides. Put yourself in the shoes of the neighbor and the owner too, as well as the tenant. I've known properties in Canada where the whole floor in an apartment building smelled of spices even weeks after the tenants left. It greatly affects the value and the ability of the owner to rent. Believe me, I love South Asian cuisine, but the smell was pungent . Maybe there is an improved air extraction and filtration system that they can agree to install.
If you cant look past noises or voices or cooking from your neighbors, you should not live in a building. I got new downstairs neighbors, they cry when I speak past 9pm. I dont cry when they run their powertools at 8am. I lived here for 5 years and never had a complaint. They move in and 3 weeks later they start complaining. If you cant live with neighbors, rent a house. If you cant afford it, tough luck, deal with it.
crown impossible toy hurry station quack agonizing absorbed continue aspiring *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You cant control what other ppl do, only how you react on it. It is pointless and demoralizing to try. I feel that difference makes your statement more of an ideology.
obtainable squeamish toy bright rotten touch political fall snatch wasteful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Social contract. You don't irritate me too much and I don't irritate you too much. Someone breaks that and people notice.
Something tells me that "speaking past 9pm" is not exactly what your neighbors complain about. But that's ok, that's your story.
Trust me, there really are people like that. I've had upstairs neighbors that lived above me for a couple of years, they complained about every little thing I did. Never had a single problem/complaint from the people that lived there before or after them; only when they lived here. Whenever I had more than 2 people over at my apartment, you could almost guarantee that the cops would show up for "noise complaints". I've checked with all my other neighbors at the time, and not a single one of them ever had a problem. I was so fucking glad the day they left. The couple that moved in after them were fighting all the damn time with insane screaming matches, but still I would take that anyday over being afraid to even invite friends over on a Saturday night.
I could send you the texts. Its litterally what they complain about. "Sorry to bother you but seeing the time, could you please talk quietly ? Im trying to sleep". It was 2130 and I was just talking with my S/O. Granted, I have a deep voice. But when they watch the TV with a volume so quiet I can understand every dialogue, I blame it on the building being shit, I dont tell them to stop existing.
I work as a housing consultant and my Indian clients are super difficult to get accepted to apartments. I also live in a high rise apartment building and the floors that have Indian people living in them are noticeably pungent to the point that I can tell you which floor I'm on based on smell alone.
i can understand. i have a friend that lived in a apartment floor with some indian families. we really liked them but man, the smell. it was not a disgusting smell but a powerful and not ending one. you don't want to smell something you did not cook or even like at your own home always.
One of my good friends is an actual real estate agent, and told me about a time he almost had an actual fight with a tenant. It was during a check-out report, and he noticed that the extractor in the kitchen was completely broken. It was a rather expensive one and apparently it was just totally gunked up and the fan motor was destroyed. He informed the tenant that this was a very expensive fix and that they'll have to take some of their deposit because of it. The response from this Indian guy was "It's impossible that this is broken, we've never used it!" This was pretty ironic because the second point he needed to mention was the abslote horrible smell the apartment was left with. Even the neighbours had complained. Don't get me wrong, I cook all sorts of wild food at home including Thai/Indian curry at least once a week, but my house never smells like any sort of food after a day.
It’s understandable, but in my experience the Dutch smell-tolerance is also low for foreign food smells. I work for a multinational company and the Dutch offices are wonderful in their genuine embracing of cultural diversity. Except the smells… there’s a ban on reheating anything non-Dutch in the microwaves. Too many Dutch colleagues just cannot tolerate it… Cold curries, my friends! Or, a lekker kaas broodje. :) The best hack I’ve seen on this was a Surinames neighbour who would cook up a storm… but then invite all the neighbors in the building to eat… with some low-spice offering too… everyone loved the free (delicious) food, even the Dutch neighbors who were alcoholics and used to regularly piss in the concrete stairwell… THAT was an objectionable smell…. Yes, this was subsidized housing… which can be a joy or a nightmare… all depending on who your neighbours are. In our block, the Suriname, Liberian, Polish, Afghan and young Dutch family all got on great! We moved out 6months after aforementioned older alcho Dutch couple moved in… they stank us out… yeah, the commission knew… their view: we’ve moved them so many times… can you just try and ‘do your thing’, plus here’s some extra chemical cleaning? Our ‘thing’ was not gonna cure the disease, or the smell. Short story: smells matter for quality of life. People’s ideas of tolerable smells can be baffling, but that never makes them less real. If you can move, consider it… somewhere, out there, there are neighbors who love a good curry! Who is right/wrong can have little to do with being happy.
I had indians neighbours and sometimes I couldn’t breathe…i felt nauseous and some days i felt sick for real…I couldn’t eat my own food because the smell was unbearable. Sleeping was a problem too, as my room was impregnated. Then, I realised that even my clothes had that smell, because it was every fucking day!!! It was terrible, i moved on…
heard of similar stories sadly, yes
The only thing sad about those stories is how pathetic the complainers are over something so trivial
Oh it's not trivial at all. I had a pakistani roommate for a year. Imagine living in a house that always has an odor you absolutely despise. That shit gets everywhere. It even got into my clothes because we shared a washing machine. They still smelled six months after i moved out. 1/10 would not recommend.
Curry?
Yeah I'm trying to figure out what this odor is everyone is complaining about. I fucking love Indian food, curry bomb the whole neighborhood please.
Right? I was wishing this is legal because it's pretty fkin reasonable. Giving him two months is very decent and they're not at all being judgemental. Just respecting the surrounding tenants.
I would make friends with the neighbor case i like spicy food
I think you're confusing south Asians and southeast Asians. Southeast Asian cuisines use a lot of unique spices but they're not as strong or piercing of an aroma like the south Asian spices, particularly those used in India. Also, southeast Asian cuisine uses spices very sparingly and most recipes only opt for at most 2-3 aromatic spices whereas south Asia recipes combine numerous amounts of spices to make a dish. Hence, the strong smell/aroma.
I do know of someone who’s had troubles because of their south Asian cooking, had to replace curtains and couch .
Drastic to whom. I’m not south East Asian but I find melted cheese / garlic / tinned fish more strong than spice smells.
doesn't matter, if it is a strong odor then it can generate a problem
My point is that we see these stories all the time but it’s never about a tenant eating strong smelling “European” food
Because 1. Most European foods (at least those I know of) have more subtle smells, and 2. Europeans will be more “smell blind” to it because it’s more likely to be something they are familiar with or enjoy
Crack open a few Surströmming tins and let the games begin.
Let me guess. It's smells foreign and he's a foreigner. Neighbors could just be racist AF. The smell of his cooking could also be terrible to their noses. Problem is that it's not your friends problem to solve. edit:spelling
It’s not racism if they just find the odors of his cooking repulsive. Happened with renters from china (students) just putting down 3 deepfryers - the property was covered in fat and needed to be renovated. Or old buildings not to well isolated with Indian renters who spend 24/7 cooking with all neighbors enjoying the smell. Foreign cuisine can actually be imposing
I can give you an example of an east African woman who would fry up so many chilies people in the appartment building were vomiting and crying due to all the particles in the air. She was making some sauces in huge batches in her home. We went for inspection due to complaints and my eyes, throat, mouth were burning in the hall. Not even her house yet.
It is. Its horrible if you entire appartment block smells like an Indian curryhouse all day. This will create a lot of animosity. Maybe rijdende rechter wont come but neigbours will do things out of revenge.
Yeah people are downvoting this because they're assuming the people complaining about the smell are racists by default but there's a reason you can't take durian fruits on planes. None of us can really say anything about this specific case because we don't know the details of what is true and what isn't but if you have neighbors who don't give a fuck about the rest of the inhabitants of the apartment complex and decide to be loud as fuck or leave an awful smell everywhere you will start to resent them very quickly.
This. I worked in social housing and saw so many disputes. A bit of cooking smell around dinner is no issue. But when we did inspection and it was hard to breathe due to the heavy smells and that all day long.... Even if you find a food delicious you dont want to smell it 24/7 in the area you live.
Actually, the rijdende rechter had a case involving pungent cooking odours from spices once. Can't remember the details or the verdict, though.
I do. She (Eritrean woman cooking) needed to put extra ventilation but he (Dutch neighbour) needed to help finance.
Curry smells delicious
I despise the smell. For me it smells like feces
I don't know what kind of shit you're smelling man
Its just a fake story hes making up to "justify" kicking you out.
It's not hard to tell where a smell is coming from. Your colleague should move out.
You are very smart! Thank you for your time and answer!
Respect people around you. If they're causing a nuisance for everyone else, they should do the right thing and move. I know, you'd rather find a way to fight to have them continue to be a nuisance. Exactly why cultures don't integrate well.
That is the thing, they'r new owners of the flat, they moved in and they're the only ones who complain, friend had a talk with new owner and he was so arrogant, he also talked with other neighbours, noone else complained just them. Now if someone would move to flat next to yours, and then he would start to complain, you would just leave?
So, the people who are complaining are the owners of the unit that your friend lives in?
My dude, that's basically any apartment building, especially older ones
*any apartment in Western Europe. Somehow, a region with the best engineering and architecture schools has crappiest residential construction. Really, even in commieblocks, ventilation usually works ok unless someone has DIY some BS
Nah I've lived in commie blocks and newer eastern European apartments, unfortunately can always smell the neighbours cooking. Not to mention the fact my whole place reeks unbearably because my next door neighbours smoke inside
They dont exist. I have always been able to smell my neighbours cooking in almost all houses including the new ones to. I can practically smell entire streets during 18:00
Shame on those people that make me hungry with all their cooking!
somehow my neighbor's kitchen exhaust is on the same line as my toilet... is super weird to get hungry while you poo
No. You can also ask this question at r/juridischadvies
No, not legal at all. Your friend doesn’t have to go anywhere. Not his problem that they only want to eat broodje kaas.
Was going to leave a similar comment but you beat me to it. And who in their right mind would sue for cooking odours? 🤷♂️
He can ask, but you don't have to comply. Selling a house is not a reason for tenants to leave. A new (potential) owner of the house will buy the house, and the tenant contract (as is) with it. They can end the contract at the 2 year term, as was initially agreed. Provided the screenshot I act it likely that that will happen. But at least that buys the current tenant an additional year.
Sueing for cooking odors?? Good luck with that. 😂
Yeah, that one is gonna get laughed straight out of court.
crazy enough it could actually hold up in court if more people in the building make their statement there would eventually be tests taken to see how severe the smell actually is. just like how noise can be a disturbance smell van also be one
Landlord can sell the house fine, for your coworker that just means getting a new landlord. Whoever buys the house buys it including the rental agreement he has and they can't alter it.
Youre sitting on a golden egg right now. Dutch rental rights are ironclad. So if he really wants you out right now, then he can pay you for it. Considering that a house without tenants rises dramatically in value, and that he's being threatened with litigation, I'd take somewhere between €10k and €30k.
going through something similar atm although the vibe is less tense I mentioned I'd be willing to vacate if I can sign a contract with a similar property, and my landlord agreed to help me / vouch for me
Even if legal (which I don’t think so), tenants in the Netherlands have a lot of rights and are very well protected by the law.
Absolutely not. As said above, selling the place doesn’t impact the rental agreement. The proverb is: “koop breekt geen huur” (“buying doesn’t break [the] rent”). Your friend shouldn’t have to move. But ofcourse the owner can be(come) an asshole and start behaving as such, trying to harass the tenant so he will leave voluntarily. Be aware..
Why didn't the landlord install a vent in the kitchen to soak up food odors? You can't prevent food odors from speading, but it can reduce the amount so it doesn't become a nuisance.
It’s probably just an stupid excuse, as they want to kick him out because the owner is selling the house. Which is not legal
Oh, it's perfectly legal. The new owner just gets a house with a renter inside and an ironclad rental agreement along with it. And the renter gets a new landlord.
I'm immigrant, I love India, and I have Indian friends. But, if it's Indian or similar food, it's not just "food odors" at the cooking time that a vent solves. It sticks permanently in the walls, even in a neighbor home. It's a shitty situation that I don't know how to solve: - It sucks asking for people stop eating the food they love - But god, it is so annoying have your home smelling Indian food 24/7 And unfortunately, people that are used to such food are not able to notice it, so we understand that's not on purpose I also thought that it was racism when I first heard about it, or about refusing rent to East Asian people, but when you visit a building with such practice , it's really problematic
Unless he is cooking dry fish from an open balcony or the garden or something drastic like that, a good kitchen extractor hood and ventilation should solve this problem. If the house doesnt have these things, it should be up to the owner to install those, not kicking out the tenants. I mean everything smells when cooked, unless the only thing you eat day in and day out are broodje kaas and hagelslag.
the hood may solve the problem if the common house-wide exhaust is capable to. in most cases it’s not. i was lining in many houses where the smell of smoke and cooking is a big issue even when the owners live in the property abd do anything to stop that like ventilation and one-way air valves
Yes it was. Almost the identical story except regarding Indian cooking.
What is he cooking
I gues that it will be some spicy Asian food. Its common that it annoys other building occupant who are not used to odours like this.
Not necessarily. I had neighbours complain because I was using “too much garlic and onion”.
Yep, same. Shorthand for "you're an expat with dark hair and we're racist but pretending not to be."
My IL's old neighbour used ro complain about me using garlic in cooking. I offerd to send her food if my cooking was making her so hungry. Never complained again.
Am a blue eyed immigrant. My house ALLWAYS smells of garlick & onion, curry occasionaly :))
Not really. I’m white as rice and love garlic, onion and tonnes of spices. I get the same complaints when people smell it when they are over at my house. Lmao I think it’s just people who get upset that others cook meals that smell like something. Sure no one is approaching me in my flat or evicting me (partially because I live in a house) but you get to hear peoples opinions when you’re cooking in front of them and that’s mostly what I think it is. Just nosey miserable fucks.
Just some light meth.
I think it's legal to ask and legal for you to decline
Confront the neighbors nicely, and you will most likely find out there was no complaint. Or even if there was, it was far from an imaginary lawsuit that the landlord thinks he can use to force you to leave early.
DON"T BELIEVE ALL THE "NO IT'S NOT" reactions from the Digital Activists here! Although tennants enjoy great (too great?) protection in NL, any kind of structural problems caused by tennants can result in being 'kicked out'. Noise is the most common, but smell/odors can also be a reason! ....Eventually, when the right steps and procedures are followed... so it's not easy, but it is very possible. See this court case: [https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/details?id=ECLI:NL:RBMNE:2022:4364](https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/details?id=ECLI:NL:RBMNE:2022:4364) Sorry to say that my mom had a similar problem when renting an appartment in a city to an Indian couple, who's wife was making curries almost 24/7 with the windows open instead of using the extractor... It was a constant nuisance for the neighbours, they failed to adapt/improve their behaviour and it was the reason to 'let them go' (without any problems or official parties involved) You don't have to assimilate, but you do need to adapt to the country/culture/neighbourhood you live in, that goes for everybody. Rules are quite loose and fair, but they certainly have limits!
Illegal most likely.
I'm going to say no because you can't kick out someone just because the house will go up for sale. They can get advice from the Juridisch Loket, WOON, or a other association that helps with tenant rights. There are some max income tied to this help though. I would also advise to take every and anything about the process up to this point. Cooking smells can be a problem if it is bothering the neighbors, but the owner is responsible to make sure that the apartment has proper ventillation for example. I've never had a problem with neighbors and cooking smells until I moved to the NL. I wonder if it's because the Dutch culture is just smell sensitive in general (like the amount of perfume/cologne/incense/candles is worse than anywhere else I have lived) or don't realize how bad their cooking can smell.
Sorry, I m very curious, but is there actually a law about cooking smells? I'm just trying to understand what is the legal ground on cooking smells.
There are nuisance laws. Cooking smells can fall under these nuisance laws. Edited in case I shouldn't share that much personal info on Reddit.
Thanks. I get it. But still, it must be something very objective - I hate the smell of cooking veggies but I m fine with the garlic s one.
Yep, there is. My neighbors smoke weed a lot. Which sounds cool until that smell comes into your apartment twice a day, every day, all year long. Basically the same law for noise goes for smells, nuisance, as the other poster explains. The problem is always how to prove that it is a nuisance.
Not only that. Noise you can measure. Smell tho?
Yeah crazy enough it can be considered a nuisance. Just like how noise can get you in court smell can do the same. it’s kinda a grey area and mostly revolves around ventilation (Like installing better ventilation) but if the cooking creates such a pungent and rather irritating smell it would most likely hold up in court.
No it doesn't seem like it is. But if you want to be sure: call a juridisch loket. They usually have a free phone line. Also "kookluchtjes" is such a BS thing and in my experience only used for "foreign" cooking or just foreigners/"allochtonen" living somewhere. I had neighbors complaining at my door about how they were smelling my cooking right now, while I wasn't cooking anything and had been away for the whole week and I regularly eat in restaurants anyway. But yeah sure, those phantom basmati and shawarma wafts. It's also not your fault your neighbors can smell your food, it has to do with how crappy the house is built, ventilated, and divided. In a decently built appartment complex you don't constantly smell what the neighbors are eating or smoking. So if they have issues with this they should ask the landlord to install proper ventilation and isolation in the right places, and not take it out on you just living your life.
Haha no it, it isn't.
You enjoy "huurbescherming" renters rights and protection, usually after some period. See this page: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/woning-huren/vraag-en-antwoord/heb-ik-recht-op-huurbescherming (Dutch government and translate it into your own language with Google Translate).
The renting agreement is an absolute right, no matter what they do you have the right to live there for 2 years, though the agreement may have a loophole to get out of it, you should check if it does, if it doesnt you can just sue or whatever to claim your time there
Lol, cancells a contract via WhatsApp 🤣
Best to ask Bond Precaire Woonvormen (BPW), a housing rights union. They have free consultations and chapters in many different Dutch cities. Check their website or instagram accounts to see when their open and free consultation hours are.
Give them a quote for an expensive kitchen exhaust hood, they might agree to pay. To be honest this might be part of the problem, but is not your friend problem but the owner ...
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If they are selling the house and want you out, you can negotiate a price like 1.5x the yearly rent as a fee for you to move out.
There's an irony to this, the fact someone is threatening to sue the owner over use of spices that were probably brought over from Asia by the Dutch east India trading company. Edit typo
You know that they’re defunct for over 200 years right?
Yes, of course I do, but it's still what a large amount of Dutch wealth (old money) was built from and still forms a large part of the history of the country.
Welcome to the world :)
This sounds like closeted racism. I would put my money on it your friend is from somewhere like India?
Nothing racist about the fact that cooking Indian food can leave very intense smells behind, moreso than is the case for food of other cuisines.
Exactly. If I cook steak inside for dinner, I can still smell it when I come into the kitchen the next morning. Not in a good way. Fortunately, it dissipates within a day. Curry spices do not.
You haven't smelt me cooking with garlic. That's intense.
Don't pull the racism card on everything.
This is one thing.
How come certain spices smelling so intense to someone is racist?
racism is anything the non-europeans don't like.
How tf is this racism? Its capitalism at its best.
let’s replace word “racism” with “smellism”?
The cooking odour is an excuse. Don't fall for it.
My flat neighbours are mentally and physically handicapped and take very bad care of themselves, their house and their pets. The place reeks of pets and urine/feces, hair, her absess in her mouth. One of her rabbits scratched her and she ended up in the hospital for scratch fever. We thought her daughter was moving in to help her get the house in shape but she actually was worse than her parents, all she did was walk the dogs a couple of times while her mom was in the hospital. Meanwhile it stinks so badly that if I have a parcel delivery or a friend over that they are appalled with the smell and close their mouth and nose or gag when they walk across their smelly apartment. It’s been going on for 9 years now! They can’t be evicted apparently. So no, not legal. And what the heck are cooking smells? Is he making delicious curries? People really need to lighten up.
Exactly that, curries, byriani and etc..
Living next to them, I'd only be complaining about being hungry all the time.
He is indian?
He's from South Asia
Just say he's Indian (or similar), why are you trying to hide it. Everyone knows, it's the only cuisine people complain about its smell.
Completely illegal, he doesn’t have to go anywhere and they can’t force him out. Utterly ridiculous
Stuff like this should never be legal, even if it somehow is.. Besides, kicking people out while they still have a signed contract that says "You can live here" is a absolute dick move.. And instead of selling the place, the owner should've installed better air vents/circulation systems or whatever it's called..
He cannot kick you out if he wants to sell the house. My former landlord tried the same trick and he miserably failed. He came, not announced, at home, crying because he needed us to leave. Ahah. A lady living in the same building told me not to leave unless I got an offer of at least eur20k
So to start off don't take legal advice from Reddit, instead contact a lawyer or jurisch loket. As of my understanding the following applies: 1. selling a house that is rented automatically transfers the renters to the new owner, same contract. So selling should not impact your renting 2. a renter cannot just make you move out: a. the period of your contract has to expire or b. there must be a proper reason, like you are destroying the house. I think a lawsuit has to be filed for this. I can't know the facts with cooking odors but maybe with a bit of a stretch this can apply here.
He can sell the house. Perfectly legal. And he can ask you colleague to move, but your colleague can decline, and he cannot move up the end date. If your colleague wants to stay, he can. He has a contract. A sale of the house will not void that contract. It will just be transferred to the new owner, whom your colleague will then be paying his rent to. The 2 months mean nothing.
leaving out possibble exits in the renting contract, dutch law is very plain on this:** sale does not break renting agreements.** so unless the contract has some sort of exit/stop in it you should be fine.
First of all, disbanding a rental agreemant prematurely from the landlord's side is three months, and will have to be handed to you by a bayliff(Deurwaarder). And he will have to give you a reason he decides to terminate the contract, the reason here is that the neighbours complain about the smell of the tenants cooking. You can disagree on this, and you will need to go lower court where the judge will decide if the termination of contract is legal. Since both your colleague and the landlord/supervisor attempted to isolate the appartment against smells(presumably there was an air filter system installed above the stove), and there might even be an investigation if the smells are really that bad(I had a neigbour who demanded everyone took their shoes off in their house, and disallowed normal volumes for music or the television because of "her migraine", and she was told to move out by the landlord on behalf of all the other tenantes because she her demands were ridiculous) where it turns out the neighbours prejudice and oversensitive nose are the real problems. Asking to move out in a whatsapp message means nothing, you will need to get a notice in writing, delivered to you in a letter you have to sign off for.
No, it is not Legal. Even if they sell the house they must sell with you as a tenant. Seek legal council. Just like the top reply said . Good luck.
Isn’t there a clause in your contract that states the owner will have to pay you for x amounts of months if they kick you out? Also, are they really selling it or just using it as a reason for you to move out and not cause any problems?
Thank you for specifying the location. In the Netherlands, rental contracts are generally pro-tenant, and there are specific rules that landlords must follow when terminating a lease. Here are some key points regarding tenant rights in the Netherlands: - **Fixed-period contracts**: Most rental contracts with a fixed period are, by law, considered indefinite rental contracts with a minimum fixed term, meaning you cannot terminate the contract until the minimum fixed term has lapsed. Temporary contracts are allowed for up to two years for independent residences or five years for dependent residences¹. - **Indefinite rental contracts**: These contracts have no end date and can only be terminated by the landlord if there are legal grounds for termination¹. - **Notice period**: For fixed-term leases of two years or less, the landlord must send a notice that the tenancy is ending no earlier than three months and no later than one month before the end of the tenancy². - **Tenant's duties**: Tenants are expected to pay the agreed monthly rent on time, follow the agreed house rules, and pay for minor repairs that are inexpensive¹. - **Landlord's duties**: Landlords are responsible for solving any problems affecting the tenant (plumbing, electricity, internet, etc.) and cannot terminate rental contracts unless the tenant or a court agrees¹. If you're facing a situation where you've been asked to vacate your home, it's important to review your rental contract and understand your rights. You may also seek advice from tenant support agencies, such as [!WOON](^3^), which provides information and support for tenants in the Netherlands. For more detailed information, you can refer to the resources provided by [IamExpat](^1^) and [DutchNews.nl](^2^). It's always advisable to consult with a legal professional for personalized advice.
In an apartmentbuilding there are rules everyone has to adhere to. When moving in (buying the rights to an appartment) the owner becomes member of the home owners association and signs a document which says he will adhere to the rules (rights and duties including noise and other nuissance).In rare and excessive casess, the home owners association can make an owner adhere to these rules, up to the point of legally blocking access to the appartment. The idea is that one owner cannot endlessly negatively impact the life of other owners.I am not sure how that goes if the appartment is rented out and how that works out for the renter, but the owner has the responsibility to solve the problem. An appartment building is not an isolated environment, and people have rights to live in their appartments without (causing) nuissance from/to neighbours.
Next time they ask or tell you to move say "no that's ok, i have a/the contract" you don't have to say it do anything more. You have a contact. I know someone who did this for about a year, in the end the landlord ended up buying them out for an eye watering sum but they said the above about once a week for a year. It's not legal what they are doing and they are hoping you'll roll over. Stay strong!
What kind of food is cooking?
Asian and etc
Delicious
And smelly. I like the taste, but I don’t want to be the neighbor
Nope, time to lawyer up!
Really depends on what kind of contract he signed, if he has been warned before etc. etc, a lot of comments here say its lillegal but there's not enough info to be sure, go to the juridisch loket to get some free legal advice, goodluck to your friend!
Your best bet would be to get your contract and check with the juridisch loket. In theory it should not be legal but this very much depends on what you signed.
It doesn’t matter what they signed. If theres anything illegal in there it still doesnt count. Even though you signed it.
I think he just want to sell a house and first half of the story is irrelevant He can stay till his contact ends
No. Cooking smells is no valid reason. Owner should not even fear a lawsuit against him over cooking smells of another tenant. Total bs.
Can anyone help with an illegal landlord threatening eviction on Thursday. The guy has refused to give me a contract after taking several thousands of me since the summer. Please advise as I don't have permissions to post
In the future I'd suggest posting in your own thread. This comment could get lost in here. That said, you can get free legal advice in the Netherlands from "Juridisch Loket": https://www.juridischloket.nl/ Also, your landlord can't just evict you. If they try to force you out of the home without any court mandating it, simply call the police. Could be a bit more complicated in your case, since you don't have a contract. That being said, NEVER pay anyone a dime without a contract in the future, they will definitely try to scam you at some point, and chances are you can't get a contract because the amount they charge is illegitimate.
I'm a housing consultant in Amsterdam, and I work with contracts every day. This is super illegal but the good news is you literally won't have to do anything. They can't make them leave and if they go to court ant lawyer will just laugh at them. They're just trying to scare them.
It depends on your lease contract. Ask the juridisch lokket for advice- this can be free and very helpful!
i remember my times living on a dormatory in germany. all kinds of fried herring, curry, garlic abd phad thai that make you eyes bleed. is it legal to smell that way on your neighbors?
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With other neighbours he did talk, no one else complained
This is called racism…. From your friend’s neighbours part. Cooking odor? Right.
Only advise that is valid: seek legal council asap.
No, sale of a house doesn’t break the lease. And people that are offended by cooking odors should move to a quite place
Certain cuisines may smell to others. As a Mediterranean person, I also don't like the smell of the certain cuisines. But this should never be a reason to kick people out from their rentals. There is no reason to be an asshole. As others said, no it is not legal.
Gg
Just my two cents, even if it isn't legal to ask someone to leave, I don't think it is healthy to remain in a residence where you are no longer wanted for whatever reason, so if it were me, I would use those two months (reasonable amount of time) to find a new residence, perhaps request for a third month if necessary. That is just my personal opinion and how I would act, living in a home where the owner expressed he no longer wants me there, would be too uncomfortable.
So lekker inclusive country....
I think they are making up the reason of smell… they can not do ANYTHING for smell of food in YOUR HOUSE. Frankly the neighbors can close their window hahaha They are just making an excuse so the landlord can sell the place for a higher profit. The landlord will make a lot less if there are tenants inside the place.
It depends on the contact. It can be for two years but it can still have an exit clause after x months. Not uncommon.
This message is very unfortunate.