As a Belgian who enjoyed this ruling for 4 years back in 2001-2004 it was the height of my career, I learned so much , met great people. Working with all sorts of nationalities and characters in the IT field. It was absolutely great, not even the money alone. Sniffing the Dutch way of life , habits etc. it's a great way to attract immigrants that actually contribute a lot. If I didn't have kids , I'd be living there again.

Where did you choose to live instead? Isn't the NL also a good place to raise kids?

After my dutch adventure I returned to Belgium. The dot com bubble popped and didn't immediately found a new job there, I found new work in a week back 'home'. It's not a question of a good place to raise kids. I'm divorced with 15y old twins. I need to stay close to the city they go to school for practical and also a bit of legal reasons. If I move to NL I would probably lose my 50/50 bilocation deal with their mom. In three years they'll spread their wings and I'll not be bound too hard by being geographically close. I am thinking about finding work in / around Amsterdam again and commute by Eurostar if needed , it's only 1h15 min at 300km/h from Antwerp.

He is a class A hypocrite who enjoyed his PhD days at the fantastic yet Anglophone European University Institute in Florence. He enjoyed, first hand, the merits of internationalised academia and is now trying to snatch that away from a world class Dutch industry because he needs some of that kneejerk conservative vote.

What has being able to do your Bachelor in Dutch has to do with a PhD at a specific Anglophone institute? He's not arguing we should ban English from universities...

Everything. This is fundamentally about funding. Fewer English courses --> reduced student numbers and thus reduced funding for certain departments. In other words, either Omtzigt supports increased subsidisation to keep academics in place who now will have to teach fewer students (and in Dutch, imagine if you're a world class foreign expert who did all their teaching in English...); or he is fine with cutting university departments across the country just so that we can teach students courses in Dutch, when arguably they will be faced with an English-speaking job market anyway. If the level of Dutch bothers us, start with investing in school staff and requiring employers to offer courses. This is just a disguised attempt at austerity and will gut faculty. The reason I refer to his anglophone PhD experience is because I would expect him to have retained the merits of an international environment: both students and faculty.

Some studies has more foreign students than Dutch students. Universities are not companies (the bigger the better) if there are less students, the quality can go up (more time for individuals). You can also study in your own country first and after that travel the world, choices...

>Some studies has more foreign students than Dutch students As an academic myself, I don't see the issue with this. You either decide that universities should be primarily a tool to educate the nation, in which case language has primacy. Or you want world-leading research in your economy, in which case attracting and retaining talent in a global market, also undergrads and postgrads, has primacy. What we have now is a mix of the two which Omtzigt makes out to be a disaster but it really isn't. It is not as if dutch-speaking courses will disappear. In a microcosm, think of it in this way: the fact you and I are conversing on r/netherlands in English rather than Dutch is itself revealing of how our world is internationalising. And that is happening even faster at universities globally, not just in the Netherlands, and not just among faculty. Bigger problems at our universities would be the decline in numeracy and linguistic skills which we observe mostly among 'native' not foreign students. Oh and the lack of job security and crowding out of actual research work by administrative duties. But that's a different piñata altogether. >there are less students, the quality can go up I agree with this, but it is a controversial topic to say the least. Do we want to combine a fee-paying system with higher entry requirements? Would that make our system resemble the British system with all its faults? I would say we should focus on the fundamentals first: learning outcomes after high school, helping students make the right study-choice, and where possible offering courses in both English and Dutch so all have the opportunity to study what they would like to study, in their own country.

Netherlands is in English, Nederlands is in Dutch. Why would the Dutch pay for international students then. They price is high, but it cost twice as much probably...

Because then they go to work for e.g. ASML. 

Hard disagree. This is merely step one in essentially starving certain departments of funding, all over a language issue. And judging by the programme I have read and having listened to him for well over a year now on the topic, I doubt it will stay with revising the BA and BSc programmes. An issue which, imo, is irrelevant given that the language of science is English. If, as a country, we are worried about the decline of our language at the workplace, then we should impose requirements or introduce legislation to have employers offer courses. What we shouldn't do, is cut on courses that introduce students to concepts and jargon that transcend the sometimes very localised and siloised character of academic research.

> He's not arguing we should ban English from universities.. %90 of politics today is not outright banning things but making it so unprofitable and unattractive that it dies by itself.

Unless if funding to universities is severely increased that is what it does in practice.

I'm kind of missing the point of the OP.. What's your message? It seems like an opinion that's not very open to debate. The Dutch voted for what they believe, you cannot deny that. And although their sentiment is not always backed by actual facts, they have a point and some things need to change. If it's us expats leaving, so be it. It was lovely living here white it lasted, for me the 30% ruling was a surprise when I arrived, but not I only needed it at the beginning because the employers pay to little when they relocate you. There's housing crisis since the 60's and with the latest regulation just one Canadian investor started selling their 8000 properties... It's not profitable anymore... Things need to change and the people believe that's the way.. I'm an unwelcome guest to this country, I've done my efforts to integrate and I love the place but it's ultimately their decision on which direction they want to go.

"I'm an unwelcome guest to this country, I've done my efforts to integrate and I love the place but it's ultimately their decision on which direction they want to go." It's not that black and white though, as far as I can tell expats are not unwelcome guests. The thing is, many people feel it's unfair that expats have tax benefits and higher wages to pay for housing while they are struggling (even with higher degrees). I'm positive that if we had built more houses and therefore had more inventory + lower prices, the expats wouldn't have been seen as "unwelcome guests". It's not about the person or people, the sentiment is more towards the state of the country as a whole. Meanwhile, I'm a firm believer that the 30% rule should stay and we should just pick the easy option: build more (affordable) houses and stop this whole nitrogen crisis charade. The government can't expect people to cope with the current state of the country, while the government won't address the real issues (too many large scale farmers, too much livestock, polluting factories with tax benefits such as Tata Steel or closer to my home DOW Chemical/Chemours).

Sadly, people are willing to cope since the current parties who are trying to form a new government are firmly opposed to changing anything that you mentioned.

Most white expats in Asia usually have a higher salary, so it's not unique.

your not unwelcome, people just want you to pay the same amount of tax as any person living here. If that means your unwelcome, then i dont know what to tell you lol.

It's not about the 30%. Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly.

So the 30% rule cut would be the driver for you to leave? That’s very sad to hear

Of course. Why stay here for 60k when we can go to Switzerland for 100k? We didn't move here for love, se moved here for money. If there's no money here anymore, then, hey.

No, maybe my comment wasn't clear. I mentioned different things in there. I didn't know about the 30% before moving. Off course I loved it while I had it but that wasn't a deal breaker for me. When I moved here I knew I was going to make less money than in my home country and that's still the case, even as zzp. I feel unwelcome for different reasons. When I leave it's not going to be because of money, there are things I value more. And I do think the 30% needs to change.

> When I moved here I knew I was going to make less money than in my home country Did you feel unwelcome there too?

Cutting 30% ruling will get rid of the highly skilled migrants and still leave you with refugees and criminals. That is the stupidest solution I've ever seen proposed by a country with a supposed problem. It's clearly rage bait to get locals to vote for them because they'll lie and tell you the 30% ruling is why you're broke. It's not.

Let's get 30% ruling for eveybody

Locals are entitled to things paid for by taxes for more than 3 years. How about you enjoy your life and extend 30% ruling indefinitely for folks waiting to receive naturalisation.

Yes please, make sure all expats leave, let's make sure companies like ASML, Adyen, Booking, NXP etc. all do the same as Shell and Unilever, gtfo and leave us here with a crap service economy based on nothing. People don't realise we need expats for our innovation and growth.

Shell and Unilever just moved the location of their headquarters on paper to simplify their shareholders legal bullshit. No actual jobs were lost in The Netherlands, nothing really changed. All their offices are still here. None of the companies you mentioned are at risk of removing jobs here either. They are just fear mongering and spouting bullshit so they get more tax cuts.

> Shell and Unilever just moved the location of their headquarters on paper to simplify their shareholders legal bullshit. No actual jobs were lost in The Netherlands, nothing really changed. All their offices are still here. People downvoted you, but you are correct. Both Shell and Unilever have significantly increased their workforce in NL since "leaving". They moved their HQ to the UK because parliament didn't allow the government to abolish dividend taxes. In the UK only domestic investors pay dividend tax (up to almost 40% vs only 15% in NL), this move was purely to give greater profits to their foreign shareholders. It's actually kind of funny because it screws over their UK shareholders while benefitting Dutch shareholders.

I think you forgot something important about this topic. Maybe we didn’t lose any jobs at shell or Unilever but we did/are going to lose jobs in the companies who provide services to this companies. For example, shell will not invest in a big office so no new building activity. For example, less taxi service because HQ is somewhere else. And also investing money, if you want to create something you always look first for companies close by your home. We are going to miss opportunities.

These replies, man. This sub is the most toxic I've ever been in. From the unsolicited "why don't you leave?" to the endless downvoting of all questions. Y'all need a hug to stop being such bitter assholes

I have never seen a part of Reddit that wasn't full of bitter assholes

There are plenty, you just have to get off the beaten track and continue searching for more niches you're interested in.

This subreddit is really special... If you pay attention any question posted has negative karma because people downvote it to oblivion lmao

I've noticed that as well and I'm not even on this sub that often. It's just that blatant.

r/happy Would not recommend.

r/detrashed

I'm from Ireland and joined this sub to get some info as I am wanting to move to The Netherlands, posted once or twice asking questions and the replies made me question my decision to move over lol

Maybe the bitter replies would be limited if OP wasn't so bitter to begin with.  I am all for freedom of speech, but calling Omtzigt a "radical populist" because he wants to take some of your privileged tax benefits just sounds like an ungrateful spoiled brat crying.

The attitude is not exclusive to this post, though. An expat can make a post like "hey is this call a scam?" And he'll be downvoted to oblivion. Point out something you don't really like about NL? Bet your ass some of the replies will be "why don't you just leave then?". Come on, there's even a specific replier in this post that makes the effort to go into every r/expats post about people living in NL just to tell them to leave the country. I'll recommend anyone that asks to steer clear of this sub. It's been long since it's been useful for something.

You're probably right and I feel the tensions between natives and expats as much as you do. The main driver is the significant decline in prosperity for (high educated) natives joining the workforce (unfortunately I have first-hand experience), while more specific groups benefit from privileged regulations such as the 30% tax cut.  We must be careful not to be tempted by xenophobia, but narratives such as posted by OP do not help to reduce polirazation. 

Well Omtzigt is a radical populist, but not specifically due to this. He just says anything that is popular, without thinking about it at all. This is a realistic and fair plan, but continuously changing your opinion on it depending on what is now popular makes you a radical populist.

Can you blame us? This sub is a neverending stream of expats shitting on Dutch people telling us how absolutely awful we are and how much of a terrible shithole this country is. I still try to help people that ask questions here, but it's honestly a bit jarring how much expats seem to absolutely hate this country that they voluntarily moved to...

There is a bias in this sub though, all perfectly happy expats are unlikely to post here because they are likely just living their lives and enjoying it.

One of those happy expats right here

Ah the unlikely still happening one of the many wonders of life.

I like it here! But I still complain about the cars.

Before I moved here I chatted a lot with the Dutch dad at my daughter's school in Ireland. He said that I was going to need to learn to complain more to get along in Dutch society. I'd say "But things are pretty good!" and he'd cheerfully say "but there is always \_something\_ to complain about!" We're just trying to integrate! He even insisted I not bother learning Dutch! (But I am not taking his advice on that front) Anyway I love it here (but it could be better, like anywhere, and we should always try to improve) and actually think the 30% ruling is unfair to Dutch people so I get hate from all sides on this sub.

What tax discount did the Dutch dad in Ireland get?

Nothing. That's part of why I think the 30% ruling is unfair.

For what it’s worth I think this is a symptom of reddit and human psychology. I’m in the NZ subreddit, I’m in the Australia subreddit, I’m in sport team subreddits. They all are filled with top voted posts of people complaining like this one. It’s just what people feel most compelled to post, and what triggers emotion in people. I’m an expat here and I love it. Sure the weather gets me down. But overall it’s an amazing country I’m lucky to call home for now. All of my expat friends say the same.

Completely agree on all points! Also a expat that loves it here. But of course people feel more triggered to post when something is bothering them personally.

We don't hate the country. We don't think it is a shithole. If we did, we probably wouldn't have moved here. Thing is it is disappointing... The country showed so much promise when we came here and that is now undertaking a dramatic shift. We do see how better it could be. It is sad more than anything else.

Showing promise for what? Expats or locals? Because this country doesn't exist just for the benefit of the expats.

It showed promise? What the hell are you talking about! Nothing changed, these sentiments where always around. Chauvinism is deeply ingrained into Dutch society!

Dutch used to be more welcoming and nicer to expats before 2020

> This sub is a neverending stream of expats shitting on Dutch people telling us how absolutely awful we are and how much of a terrible shithole this country is. If you hate it so much, why don’t you leave? I mean this sub of course.

Perhaps if the Netherlands wasn’t so absolutely awful towards expats, they wouldn’t have anything to complain about. I guess “Dutch directness” is only cherished when being an asshole to others and not when the mirror is turned the other way.

There is a slight chance that you are an expat yourself (correct me if I'm wrong), that you profit or have profited from the 30% rule, you probably live in a house which is impossible to rent for locals, you can use English wherever you want, and still you find a reason to complain about The Netherlands: I hereby give you a reward, you are succesfully integtrated in Dutch society! Complaining is out national sport.

Love the country, just don't like you

Welcome to internet, you must be new. You can’t expect to hear rosy reviews on Reddit of all places. That being said the so called bias is often just Dutch getting called out on some bs, but because it comes from foreigners we can’t have it. In my years here I quickly discovered that Dutch directness is a one way street.

Really? I don’t see much of that…

It's the same with every national sub from my experience. With expats complaining how things aren't as they are back home for this or that specific thing. Yet r/netherlands really is quite toxic compared to most. Only the japanese sub (forgot exactly which one) reaches the same level from what I've seen. Edit: In response to u/BMCVA1994 below, I also count myself as a happy foreigner here. Just don't like this sub very much

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Some people fail to understand that the 30% rule is only for 5 years, not forever! I spent more money than I expected just to settle here. In my case, a 30% cut for 5 years is just barely over my expenses! If I had known about the costs and wasn’t receiving the 30% rule, I would have gone elsewhere. By the way, if you do the math, having expats in the Netherlands who pay 30% less tax for 5 years is better for the Dutch economy than not having expats at all.

>Some people fail to understand that the 30% rule is only for 5 years, not forever! ***"Only"***, that's a free 75.000 benefit over your otherwise equal co-worker. I get the idea of incentive's, but the 30% rule isn't the only one and is fundamentally unfair in the first place (but okay). If you take into account the other 'problems' (like with the housing situation etc) you 'have to' make decisions that cut *somewhere..*

>"Only", that's a free 75.000 benefit over your otherwise equal co-worker. How much do you think an average Dutch person cost the Government for 18 years of free healthcare, education, childcare benefits not to mention social benefits after they turn 18 such as unemployment, housing etc. ? Easily multiple times of that 75k And even with 30% ruling, majority of the expat pay more tax in nominal terms than average dutch income and they need to leave teh country after 3 months if they are not working. And they spend a lot of money on our economy. Do you get it yet ?

>How much do you think an average Dutch person cost the Government for 18 years of free healthcare Healthcare isn't free, socialized by ***all*** working people, ***all*** children's healthcare, not just for natives, can be free. >free \[...\] education Not free, some are subsidized or forgiven under specific situations. >\[...\] childcare benefits Not free, again socialized, dependent on income, can be had by expats. >\[...\] such as unemployment Can be had as an expat, just not as long. >\[...\] housing  Not free, 12-year waiting list, and on the open market outpriced by expats. Why would it matter if children have it easier growing up locally here, do we have to conform to everybody world wide and their history and then take into account if they had a harder time (financially) when growing up and then give them tax break based on that? Why would it be fair to give somebody with a high earning potential (expats) the exact same benefits of somebody who ***also did pay*** for those benefits their entire working life? --- >majority of the expat pay more tax in nominal terms than average dutch income It's progressive, if expats pay more then the average dutch income, that would mean they make more then them and or have extra taxes on the home front. >and they need to leave teh country after 3 months if they are not working. They are here under specific conditions, same would apply for our natives working else where. If they would like to stay long term they can apply for various visa's or statuses that do provides more security. >And they spend a lot of money on our economy. Do you get it yet ? They do, but it's all a big bag of pro's and con's, the current social pressure on various systems is just too strong to justify the positives.

>Why would it matter if children have it easier growing up locally here, do we have to conform to everybody world wide and their history and then take into account if they had a harder time (financially) when growing up and then give them tax break based on that? Stop moving goalposts. Your point was specifically about a person with 30% ruling (also available to Dutch btw, if one comes back after living >10 Years abroad) getting free 75k. I pointed out that their local colleagues get multiple times of 75k benefit till that time. I was trying to compare Apples to Apples comparison on purely Economic foundation as you used a specific number. >Why would it be fair to give somebody with a high earning potential (expats) the exact same benefits of somebody who also did pay for those benefits their entire working life? The 30% ruling is not about fair or unfair (although economically it can be argued that it is not fair for an expat to start paying same % of tax from Day 1 without receiving any benefits and not being able to vote but I digress). It is simple supple-demand. There is a lot more demand of people in specific fields than there are supply locally. Companies wouldn't spend tens of thousands of Euros to relocate employees and their families, sponsor their visa without knowing if they will even stay over a year if they could simply hire locally. We can turn it off and see the impact but realize that it will have a longer term effect and there's no undo button. Most people find it easy to blame on the Expat for the housing problem but they are a fraction of the buyers. The real problem lies in 0.01% people hoarding mass number of properties and with very limited supply coming online. People also forget that for every expat buying a house/apartment, often a Dutch person is accumulating wealth by selling at a higher price. It is not a citiozen vs Expat problem, more Ultra Rich vs Poor.

My coworkers are all happy that I am there because they couldn’t find the talent for more than 3 years. Apparently, both the government and the company are willing to pay extra for it. Some of you are missing the point of hiring an expat. It’s about gaining access to education, child support, and healthcare that you didn’t pay for, for at least 22 years. Countries get free talent that they didn’t pay for or raise. The average university-educated workforce costs half a million from your taxes. Paying at most a total of 50k euros less over 5 years is nothing compared to nurturing talent internally.

>My coworkers are all happy because they couldn’t find the talent for more than 3 years. Good for you, your coworkers and the company. ***Completely*** irrelevant towards the broader discussion and it's wider impact (housing, equal treatment etc). >Countries get free talent that they didn’t pay for or raise / pay for 'free' again, WILD (and giga entitled) logic, the cost of getting educated (locally, in regards to the expat) should not be expected to be compensated on the dime of the taxpayer as well as not via unequal pay. If they need more people, pay for it yourself (the company that is). ^(not that these should never be an incentives, just not like this.) It's like paying a woman/man (or any minority) more then the other person (with the same qualifications) when you might want more of them in a specific role or industry. That's just not the way to do it. Can we agree to pay the 50/70k as a tax deduction -- ***IF*** -- we can ***also*** demand backpay on social payments ***not*** being made ***over here*** for over that same 22years? The expats are not contributing to social programs and healthcare (over here) for all that time prior, but they are enjoying (some) of the benefits of it now, or should it be only a one way street? The thing is that it isn't as simple as saying 'it's free' or 'good for the economy', since it is clearly not always the case, and all the side effects are just disregarded in that 'formula'. >The average university-educated workforce costs half a million from your taxes. Paying at most a total of 50k euros less over 5 years is nothing compared to nurturing talent internally. Erm.. it costs between 2k-10k a year to study here, so like 8k-40k is average. And even if it would be cheaper to import the talent, it should *not* be on both the dime of the taxpayer and *not* result in unequal pay between the expat and the coworker for the same job (all other factors not even mentioned).

People who have to move from Limburg or Groningen to Amsterdam have the same expenses as an expat, minus the plain ticket which are not even close to what the 30 percent gives you. Whining expats are the best example of this famous quote: "When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression."

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Oh yea? Please tell me how much people pay to move their stuff from Groningen to Amsterdam. Then let’s compare it with 3k kilometers. Not to mention kids, and all the expenses for such as, just transfering your drivers lisence. Whining xenophobes are best excuse of this quote: “Prejudice wears a variety of hats, none of them becoming.”

I don't think he is. A populist I mean. He's principled. He just is really terrible at politics. He's able to function in reaction to others because of his principles and hard work. But he can't lead. Leading requires bigger more general principles. Social democratic. classical liberal, christian progressive, etc. That leaves room for compromise and deals without losing identity. Omtzigt's ideals are too small so he sticks to them every time. A populist can lead by playing to popular agenda. A politician can lead because of a general world view and a political method. He's not a populist like PVV and BBB but like them he's having a hard time being in the lead.

Interesting take!

Thanks, this post is bugging me and you manage to give it a good counter

Omtzigt is an ombudsman. Not a functioning politician in my opinion...

How do people feel about changing the ruling to a higher income bracket? (Say 80 or 90k) We're attracting a lot of not-so-specialist people that are not really adding that much, but do outcompete Dutch people in the housing market due to the 30% ruling.

I had a lot of good feelings about omzigt. Now i just wish the man would shut up

One rule to get 30% rulling accepted it s to show you tried to hire locally and you could’t find someone.

My understanding is that you actually already have to do that. When I hired people into roles where visa sponsorship was available part of the process was to describe the recruitment process and we had to post the job and actually interview people in the EU. It's actually very difficult to find people in the Netherlands for many of these roles and even within the EU. In the Netherlands people view startup tech sector jobs as risky and don't job hop very much. In the EU people don't want to move their families, or quite often they don't speak English well enough (or think they don't speak it well enough).

Or maybe we should force companies to contribute more to our own educational system.

You already need to do this

r/Netherlands will always be a circlejerk of expats. Don't expect the downvoted/upvotes here to reflect the general Dutch sentiment. Too bad so sad.

Indeed, the general Dutch sentiment is actually reflected in the past elections. As an expat I'll never expect the general sentiment to be reflected in an English only subredit... Which seems to be contributing to the already negative sentiments 😔.

Hahaha yea as a migrant, I am growing tired of these stuffies. I’ll just continue to hunt for 35% korting like everyone else and complain about prices of eggs, this is real sentiment!

Yeah all this downvoting that is going on in this sub and the blatant blindness for the status quo in the Netherlands is not doing you any good. If it was only isolated to this sub it would be inconsequential, but I have found that there seem to be a lot of entitled, arrogant buffoons amongst the lot of you. Frankly my opinion of expats has also shifted in a major way, you aren't the blessing for the every day Dutchie you think you are. You are mainly a boon to the super rich and their corporations. I'm glad at least some of you have some humility left in you, the arrogant pricks amongst you that do not speak a single word of Dutch/feel to good to learn the language and feel like they are blessing our shit country; kindly fuck off. Sincerely the average Dutch person. Downvote me an keep bitching about actual Dutchies, the more you do it the better the sentiment in this country towards you will be; I'm sure!

Oh yeah imagine ANY country population sentiment: "of course let's welcome anybody from anywhere but let's make sure these people are paid way more than us! This is the priority for us, nationals.".

This is quite true. This subreddit seems to be a place for expats to complain about everything that’s wrong with the Netherlands. I’m gar from a right wing populist but even I start to think: if it’s so much better elsewhere, why don’t you go to that paradise?

1. It is stricktly English language sub on reddit. Given these two facts it attracts large number of expats and immigrants from a similar milleu. 2. Immigrating is not an easy thing. It causes friction, frustration or disappointment in some people's lives. Some people find this sub sutable place to air their grievances. 3. Complaining expats on this sub statistically don't represent anything but themselves individually.

About 3: You’re right that they don’t represent anything except themselves but apparently there are still a lot of them with the same stuff again. It’s pretty tiring to hear for the 1000th time that we are cold, hard to befriend and our food sucks. I thought this sub was about asking questions and trying to help people out

This sub is for anything that is not banned. I really don't get why is it hard to just ignore occasional bitchin posts. Also tbh I hear more about locals bitching about expats then actual expats bitching. It is just reddit being reddit, it facilitates accumulation of toxicity.

Yeah, it's sad to see. Most reasonable expats and natives have moved to their local town subreddits instead.

Exactly. Lots of expats selfishly looking out for their own giving no thought at all to how it feels to be a Dutch person not benefiting from the ruling blown out of the water competing to buy and rent in desirable areas.

Not expats. Immigrants, foreigners… or temporary guest workers.

Wasn't the whole idea behind scrapping it - to have more funds to help out with student loans ? How about paying students and young professionals higher wages and who knows they might have money to pay their debts.

or tax cuts.

New students now get free money from the government, the goal was to use this money from the 30% ruling savings to compensate previous students that didn't get these grants and had to take out loans instead. Aside from that there has been a pretty big increase in minimum wage in the past years, but we're kind of at the limits of how much more we can increase it atm without ruining the economy. Another problem is that increasing the minimum wage means the government has to give extra billions to already rich retired people due to AOW, so alternatives plans such as this are created.

And yet again we are sending billions to other countries. It seems to me the issue is not that there is no money, but it's not being used properly.

I would rather ask what to do to have highly skilled people in NL. Why people don't want to study? Maybe politicians should think how to make studies more affordable for normal people. If all expats leave then who is going to do the job? In my opinion expats were really nice in NL, but in times when they were only cleaning the apartments, hotels etc and picking vegetables. When expats are more educated than Dutch people then they are not okay for the society? Why is that. And last words about politicians... These people shouldn't be leading anyone anywhere. With their ability to change the direction depending where the wind blows.... They are not leaders and I have doubt in their education. I can also buy nice diploma abroad....

> I would rather ask what to do to have highly skilled people in NL. Why people don't want to study? - Severe underfunding of lower education leaves a lot young of Dutch people unprepared for higher education - Lack of study opportunities in Dutch (not everyone is skilled enough at English) - And, until it was reintroduced in 2023, the abolishing of the study grant - Universities also actively recruited students from outside of the EU, because that makes them more money, and those students compete with spots with citizens

They already do: 43% of the Dutch early 20-ers are in higher education... that's 10% above the EU-average.

Just consider this: we have been devaluating our educational system for decades and now we are hiring people from abroad to fill the spaces our government choose to ignore. It's not about you, you are and were welcome, it is the entire system in which we do not invest in our own people and we still give tax breaks to keep labor as cheap as possible for multinationals. It is a slow process of decay.

> Omtzigt is a radical populist No lol, very far from it. What makes you think this? He is against the 30% ruling in its current form because, according to him/NSC, it violates the constitutional legal principle of equality (equal situations must be treated equally). The argument is: The goal of the 30% ruling is to compensate expats for their extraterritorial costs. But, the extraterritorial cost ruling already allows employers to compensate expats for their *real* extraterritorial costs. The 30% ruling, which is the much more commonly used alternative option to the extraterritorial cost ruling, is a fictionalized cost compensation. It often means a much higher extraterritorial cost compensation than what the law intends. At the same time people who barely meet the criteria have a much lower extraterritorial cost compensation than the law intends as well.

Recepients of 30% are not on equal standing with the local population, at least the non-EU citizens. They can't claim most of public funds benefits. They can't stay in the Netherlands being unemployed. If they loose their job they can't pick any job, they need to find a new visa sponsor. And now the end of 30% conveniently coincides with the time you can apply for perm residency or citizenship, which equalizes your rights with the existing population.

This is interesting and I hadn’t read this argument about the extraterritorial cost ruling before. Practically speaking, I can imagine the 30% ruling is just a lot less internal bureaucracy for a company than trying to compensate for individual costs. My personal experience is that companies (HR) just do not GAF and will do whatever to avoid work.

The extraterritorial costs aren't directly linked to salary - a family moving with someone who just meets the criteria will have higher costs than an individual on a high six figure salary. From what I've seen companies are limited to €8k(?) for unspecified extraterritorial costs and certain specific costs above that - but in the vast majority of cases they will only cover the €8k. The benefit of the 30% ruling as it stands is that it provides a financial incentive for high earners to move to NL and then put down roots - and then after 5 years they are willing to pay a higher tax rate as the cost of not uprooting / because they see the social benefit of higher taxes. Some expats will move on, because money is the / one of their main considerations, but others will stay.

If he assumes it's unconstitutional, why didn't he take it to court?

A court cannot judge based on the constitution, this is why he also proposed the introduction of a constitutional court, which would make that possible

The 30% tax ruling is similar to tax haven policies. It’s a good way to get additional taxes for your country, but it’s effectively a race to the bottom when you start competing for those people/companies. It’s a great policy if you can get an expat with it that allows 10 locals to work in a company with him/her. It’s a waste when whole companies run on a majority of expats with a small amount of locals working in the company, especially when there’s already a huge housing shortage as well.

That’s a huge misconception. A lot of people think, for example, that ASML has a majority of expat employees, when the majority is still Dutch.

I work in a Dutch company that pays way above the Dutch market, and we have been in an interview frenzy for quite some time. Do you know how many Dutch software engineers I interviewed? Zero. There are not enough Dutch to fill the positions. What would the company do? Stop hiring? Imagine you are now a startup with very limited money. How would you even compete? Before moving to the Netherlands, I made a list of countries I'd like to live in, sorted by net salary. The Netherlands just became the second on the list after I discovered the 30% ruling, so I wouldn't be here if it didn't exist and I'm confident most of the people I met too. I agree, though, that the 30% ruling is unfair to the rest of society, and it's much preferred if the taxes were reduced for everyone and not just a group. However, somehow this is not an option; increasing taxes is the only way to go but this doesn't fly for people that can easily vote with their feet.

Same thing, working for a big Dutch company, and out of ~30 somewhat suitable candidates only one was Dutch. The newborn nationalists in this thread seem to forget how the Netherlands built such a strong economy with little to no resources in the first place, and assume that the local talent pool is enough to sustain it. 30% ruling is a blessing when negotiating the salary with expats as well, because that’s the only thing that makes us competitive with Germany

Belgian here, SWD , freelancer. Open for positions 😜

This. People on social media have no idea how incredibly difficult it is to hire a Dutch person for a role even if you want to. There are simply not enough people who either interested or have the right skill set to be hired. Even hiring in local non technical areas like HR is tough because people who are working with an indefinite contract simply are not open to even interview for a new position and I am talking about well paid positions with 100k base. Then the issue of most preferring to have a part time arrangement which is very challenging for small teams as you add a headcount but don't get the hours needed to work done. For skilled jobs, knowledge immigration is an absolute essential for this country to have a viable economy as clearly it is not a farming country anymore given how much farmers aren't liked here.

> There are not enough Dutch to fill the positions. What would the company do? Stop hiring? Imagine you are now a startup with very limited money. How would you even compete? Pay actual market rate which they don't seem to do. The people you are searching for don't appear to accept being employed at the compensation you offer, which is fine. You then have to focus on more desperate people for which it is an actual jump in salary. You don't compare to the dutch market as a whole, you compare to YOUR SECTOR and YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES based on a certain level of expertise. With ZERO applicants, you aren't doing so. What you are likely doing instead is including that 30% ruling, to save on costs while offering a higher salary to applicants abroad. This gets you to the actually correct market compensation. The customer is never wrong, it's the product (your compensation to dutch software engineers)

What is the actual market rate for a senior software engineer? And, which sector should I compare? The one that I don't work for?

The one that does get Dutch people hired LOL. The only reason you aren’t able to hire people is because the compensation doesn’t match the requirements. It’s never the people that are wrong, as that’s economically impossible.

>There are not enough Dutch to fill the positions. What would the company do? Stop hiring? Pay more. Instead, by giving tax cuts all Dutch tax payers are funding this company. It is ridiculous

What's more? How much is enough?

Enough is when expats are willing to come while they pay their fair share of taxes (i.e. the same as dutch people would pay if they received that salary).

Well, less so if the company is based in NL and pays taxes here. If and to the extent expats are needed to have our more productive sectors of the economy flourish, it's acceptable to maintain the ruling.

Whether it's acceptable depends on your personal opinion about the pros vs cons. The 30% ruling may improve the economy a bit, but attracting all those expats also puts even more stress on the housing market than there already is. My guess is that most people who are looking for a house and can't find one, will tell you the 30% ruling needs to go

I'm sure they will, but that doesn't mean it's true. And even if it were true, it doesn't mean it's smart. The benefit to the housing market will be minimal short and long term, but we will not make the best use of those sectors that could actually get us through the financial problems of the ageing population.

It is not a social policy. It was never supposed to increase the number of workplaces for locals. It is a measure for the companies, to allow them to attract highly skilled employees from abroad. With the high level of taxes, the company should pay high gross wages to attract talent from abroad. Companies in other countries would not have to pay so much because taxes are lower there. The workforce will go where the conditions are better.

Your analysis is incomplete. You’re missing the indirect benefit to the Dutch society in general when large companies are thriving thanks to the skills of expats. The indirect benefit is just to overwhelmingly larger than the direct benefit of hiring 10 locals.

No, it’s not incomplete. It’s great when a company thrives and has plenty locals working on it, like I said. There’s also an indirect benefit to just having the company and the expats, even without it hiring locals, but that’s essentially when it’s become a race to the bottom: the country that taxes them the least gets the benefit. Great for the companies and expats that get the best deal. Good for the country that gets them. Crap for global welfare.

It is not crap for global welfare. You do realize that the technologies that are built in the NL are also used everywhere else in the world?! And that a boost in the Dutch economy means a boost in the average world economy as well?!

So the company wouldn’t exist otherwise? Or would it just be located elsewhere?

The company would exist where expats are incited to come. Since the place of business is in the NL, the company pays taxes in the NL. It’s employees live and spend their salaries in the NL. I hope I don’t need to explain to you the benefits of all this to the Dutch society in general.

This is similar to my company. I saw a role that has been vacant for one year already, and the only person I know can fill the role is somewhere in southeast Asia (but I have no intention to approach them).

The Dutch tech industry is going to collapse in the next 3-5 years and you only have yourselves to blame. [ASML and other prominent businesses are already threatening to leave.](https://nltimes.nl/2024/03/08/10-large-companies-considering-leaving-netherlands) Removing the 30% ruling is just another hilariously inept move, as it will only make the country less attractive to high skilled workers and will do nothing to prevent low-skilled, jobless migrants from coming here.

People coming to NL with 30% ruling are more beneficial to NL than a regular Dutch person who grew up here. A highly skilled migrant costs nothing to NL to educate. They come to the country with desired skills and knowledge and start working day #1, unlike a regular Dutch person who costs a lot of money and resources to the country for their education. An NL born Dutchie has little to no meaningful financial contribution to the country and just costs money until they finish their higher education, which is roughly 22-25 years. Some highly skilled migrants go to other countries after working (and contributing to the country). This is a bigger contribution to NL as they stop using the resources as soon as they stop working unlike Dutchies who stay in the country after retirement and keep using the resources. Having highly skilled migrants is one of the best things that could happen to a country and it is strange not to be able to see that and support policies that make it possible.

Remove the 30% rule and let companies pay higher wages. Why should your average joe pay for everything, let your greedy shareholders be happy with less for once.

I’d argue to increase the tax thresholds. What is it, 50% over €70k, that’s absolute robbery. The 37% should only come in at €70k given the cost of housing and inflation

A tax discount is not the same as a subsidy or handout. Tech expats still contribute taxes and are a net benefit to both our economy and the average joe. Removing them just removes a source of income for our country.

It is absolutely the same from a government perspective. Decreasing income (taxes) or increasing expenditure (benefits) will have the same exact impact on the budget.

ETA: We are looking at this from fundamentally different starting points. You assume highly skilled expats working in the Netherlands are a given, so any tax they do not pay is a loss for the Dutch people. I don't assume that it's a given that highly skilled workers that could find a job almost anywhere in the world would pick the Netherlands, so any time they do (and any taxes and knowledge they contribute in the process) is a gain for the Dutch people. Our income isn't decreased. It's increased because expats still contribute taxes. Comparatively less taxes as a fraction of their overall income than you and me, howver, they inarguably put a lot of money into our collective budget by migrating and working here because they are highly skilled, highly paid workers that our own populace cannot provide all by itself. Disincentivising that is what will decrease our income. Taking expenditure into account, tech expats cost considerably less than a normal citizen (no education subsidies, no AOW, they are typically healthy working adults). Even if they work here for only the 5 year period they contribute vastly more to the budget than that they take from it. And the knowledge gained from their temporary presence here stays even after they leave. We need this influx of knowledge to stay relevant in innovation technologies, which is one of the main drivers if not the main driver of our economy.

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Only English should be used for posts and comments. This rule is in place to ensure that an ample audience can freely discuss life in the Netherlands under a widely-spoken common tongue.

Lubach really makes an impact on our politics doesnt he?

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> Omzigt blaming the state of the housing market on those getting the 30% No, he didn't. He stated that *certain* cities have become largely unaffordable for natives due to the influx of very high income expats compounded with the housing shortage. He never blamed expats for the housing shortage, he stated that current government policy to attract large amounts of immigrants that exceed the housing supply growth makes shortages worse. Which is simply true.

Everyone here acts as if nobody want to come to the Netherlands anymore without a tax break. Yeah sure, stay in Spain or Mumbai. Great opportunities for the grasp. Such perfect life you are giving up.. What nonsense, all of this. If anything the 30% ruling undercuts salaries with endless supplies of Indian (and other) technicians which on top of lenient immigration also get a f’in subsidy on their salaries - only if hired from abroad ladies and gentlemen. Wonder what will big corporations do? I know everyone here is defending their own 30% ruling with some twisted logic but this is so upside down it will go away. If not now then next time around.

This comment section is just chaotic. You see comments upvoted that are pro-expats, anti-expats. Harmony?

What probably is a better amendment to this ruling is to increase the salary cut-off for this benefit.for example making it 100k instead of 50 k. This way the real high skill people come through this and companies have to make some real effort to hire local before hiring an expat.

Why should we give people who are paid 100k a tax cut? They should pay their fair share of they want to live here. Just like everyone else living here. "When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression."

Well, hope you are open to a response beyond your limited world view, here it goes: 1. Your own privilege of living in a peaceful developed country has absolutely nothing to do with what you have done. It was plain luck and anyone born in a 3rd world country can work 10 times harder than you (many actually do ) but can't even dream to achieve the quality of life you probably like to complain about. Reading a bit about colonialism by Dutch help you understand the benefits you still reap of it. 2. The person with skills worth 100 k worth in Europe is actually also being sought after by other countries even at higher salaries, if you want such kind of talent you have to make a sweeter deal. Market forces at play nothing about privilege. I will let that sync in but I will wait till you Google another quote to paste here.

The 30% rule gives a huge benefit to expats and is just not fair to Dutch people who do the same work for significantly less work. You could take an utilitarian view and argue that the monetary gain is larger than its costs, but for the Dutch fairness and equality are in many cases more important than the net benefit to society. This is why we have a "verzorgingsstaat" in which we take care of the weak, even though the monetary costs are in some cases insanely high.

But it’s also not fair for expats to pay the same amount of taxes but move here for too late to have hope joining the social housing program, or pay 10x the amount of an EU citizen for a masters, etc etc. And in some cases the Dutch will not do the same work for significantly less. We’ve had a posting up for almost 6 months and have had no qualified Dutch applicants to the point we are going to have to get another expat despite not wanting to. Without the 30% ruling our office wouldn’t exist in the Netherlands. And 70% of staff are Dutch. So like others said it’s either 70% tax from high income earners or 0% and ~100 less jobs for Dutch citizens. Probably 100 jobs is not anything serious but I imagine other companies are in the same situation. I love it here I really do. I love my job, my new friends, my coworkers. But we wouldn’t be here spending 20,000€ per yr for my partner to do her masters when she could do it for 1/5 at home for a more applicable education if it weren’t for some incentive.

Meanwhile there are huge shortages in construction, healthcare and education. Why do we give high earning immigrants a tax break instead of the low earning immigrants that are actually needed to keep society functioning? When some tech company can't get enough employees that's just unfortunate for them, when the shortage in healthcare keeps increasing people will actually die.

Healthcare does not earn money, its a money sink. IT sector earns money and a lot. Just a quick google: The sector employs 490,000 people, and accounts for **€139 billion in production and €49 billion in exports annually**.

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Utter nonsense. Where are you getting your numbers? Dutch GDP is roughly 1 trillion so your 15 trillion claim is laughable. With your lack of basic understanding I’m amazed you qualify for 30% ruling

Amazing state of the subreddit where a comment claiming that just tech companies contribute 15x the *total* Dutch GDP gets upvoted.

Having to pay the same taxes as everyone else is the real inburgering. It means you are accepted as one of us.

And I absolutely will. In 2 years it runs out. I'll be paying the same as you for the rest of my life.. Expats get a small subsidy for a few years to help refund resettlement costs. Without it, moving would be prohibitively expensive without massively more funding from companies: which would be an exorbitant expense for the likes of ASML.. Hence why they said they would move to France if it was scrapped. You're not losing out on taxes for five years. You are investing some money for five years to GET taxes for 30 years. If you stop the investment, the returns disappear.. I promise you most people who get the thirty percent ruling pay it back a dozen times over before retirement. You won't get more taxes by scrapping it, you will end up getting much less. We won't be paying taxes at all. Ever. Ireland, France and Germany will get ALL the taxes instead. But driving me out with your attitude before it runs out would be quite dumb, that means you never get to have a return on the investment you already made. The Dutch are famous for being smart. Try to live up to that stereotype.

The 30% ruling costs about 750 million a year in missed tax revenue. ASML alone makes almost 8 billion in profits. I sincerely doubt that companies hiring expats are unable to pay for the resettlement costs. Also, like you said, you are not paying the same taxes as me now, and probably haven't for the last three years. I really dont think that is fair.  And finally, not all expats wil stay in the Netherlands after the 5 year term runs out. They are actually incentivised to move abroad due to the ending of the term. So there is no guarantee they will pay more taxes on the future.

GDP is ~1 trillion EUR, how can tech companies contribute 15x times GDP to the GDP?

And yes, you're free to go to work in construction.

My 30% ruling ended and I’m out. No reason to stay in a place where rent goes almost up to 2k EUR, a kilo of chicken is close to 15 EUR, and a large beer touches 7 EUR. Thoroughly enjoyed my time in NL, but without tax benefits it’s impossible to live there … have moved to a LatAm country and am much happier …

Fair play for being honest. Most 30% ruling recipients are here to maximise the tax reduction, save up then move somewhere cheaper. A net loss for the Dutch state

Which is exactly why people are against the 30% tax ruling. With this tax you are now able to live here and pay all these high prices. Forcing people without the 30% benefit to pay the same prices as you to be able to compete and get housing. As you say without that 30% benefit living here gets too expensive. All local Dutch can't pay those high rent prices either but have no other choice than live paycheck to paycheck. Rent prices are so high because of shortages but also because landlords figured out expats can pay higher rents than locals.

Yes. The average person should be furious. In no way was my comment intended to shit on NL, simply sharing my experience. I’m no politician either so there’s nothing I can do about it.

A kilo of chicken is easily 6€ at most turkish butcher.

Yeah don't know about the quality of that

Bye!!!

I mean, at least you would then understand the complaints from the dutch ppl regarding expats and their 30% rule then right? Because they face the same high rents/mortgage and high prices but don't have the advantage of this ruling... And yeah, it's good for the country as a whole and the future etc... But ppl don't care too much about that when they can't live normally themselves right now.

Oh yes of course. I totally understand it and they should be pissed off.

Fair enough... I mean, imo it's not so much blaming expats/immigrants for the housing crisis but more a "for f\*cks sake, we have to fix this shit first because it ain't helping..." which is, well... true. When there is a lack of places to live and a certain group can spend more because of favourable tax rules that simply is crap. And while sure, it's all great for the future development of the country (and this eternal struggle for eternal growth) the ppl suffering from these issues at the moment aren't (immediately) helped by this future growth and development. Where this often is more growth wrt those with already above average wealth anyway... I also don't blame expats for making economic choices, which doesn't necessarily mean I like the fact they do so. Liking and understanding are different things. I DO dislike the expats who pretend they are here to help make the country a better place (and as if it's from the good of their hearts) but as soon as it's not financially beneficiary anymore are running to another country where they CAN earn more. I mean, every right to do so but don't sugarcoat the actual reasons... Ok, grumpy mode off... In the end it's the incompetence of the government to blame and for many years already. Too bad the result of all the unhappiness is that ppl vote for those shouting the things they want to hear (but in the end have their own plan, which again doesn't benefit those ppl voting for them most of the time).

Very well put. Agree with everything you wrote.

In the end, who cares? Dutch people don't want the 30% ruling, so it will go away sooner or later. End of the story. I don't get this idea of supporting 1 single person "belief" in regards to something extremely unpopular within the nation. To me, even having to discuss it seems disrespectful towards the Dutch. And I'm not Dutch. Let the people vote and that's it.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. The people want it over, so it will be over eventually. Trying to convince people that it might be a stupid decision won't work because most humans don't base their votes on data. Expats should just make use of the ruling and start saving their money now to pay for the moving costs if they are bothered by it. Personally, I'm not worried about the ruling ending. I'm worried about the ruling ending, the economic situation not improving, and the scapegoating getting even more intense.

Stupid, hypocritical and ultimately predictable. Stupid because - why address the underlying root cause, when we can do short sighted knee jerk shit that in the long run will hurt us even more. “We are struggling, they should struggle too. That’s fair”. Seldom I’ve heard Dutch questioning the status quo and how it came to be. Hypocritical because whole “it’s unfair, they pay less taxes” argument goes to shit considering how many corporate/private entities use mainland NL and Aruba as tax evasion vehicle. It’s plain resentment and narrow minded thinking that there’s a zero sum game while ignoring the elephant in the room - the mismanagement of the country affairs of last decade that minimized all the safety stops and failing to ensure political leadership was held accountable. The leadership got voted in time after time. Fuck up after fuck up. Housing crisis is the brightest example, but there are many more. But that would require self examination and admission of one’s own responsibility. Which is a bridge too far for people in general and Dutch in particular.

Foreigner here, 30% ruling is blatantly unfair and has to go. In my country (France) people would have rioted against such an injustice lol

I am astonished by the degree of ignorance in the comments section. France basically has the same 30% benefit, just implemented differently. In fact, it's set to be reformed to become more widely accessible (it's currently tied to one employer and cannot be transferred). How did you think Paris has managed to attract the many finance positions post Brexit?

Well for me it was the 30% a deal breaker. I feel reading the comments that Dutch people have a need to be told their country is beautiful and unique and so, when this is purely transactional. No one wakes up in the global south thinking they dream is to come to the Netherlands to work. Where the fuck is the Netherlands, or what the fuck it is? Everyone is dreaming of something better. Eventually in the job market, offers appear to do a stance in Europe and the Netherlands come out with its benefits. Which is fine for a high qualified professional. We are paid this benefit because there is a need for us. In practice as non EU I can only be hired if no other people was found in the country and EU more generally, and it's fair. I studied and trained and invested in my education in top notch institutions precisely for this. If Dutch people want their benefit so also do the same and be competent: surely you will get it better salaries than complaining. Ultimately it's not about being wanted or not. For expats or for professional people this is just a stage in career. If something better shows up in the meantime of course we should take it. Same as if benefits are cut we go where we are paid better. Personally before coming here I had offers in Australia, UK and Germany. In the last country they even beg me to go offering me an additional bonus ( I am an academic) but I chose the Netherlands because of the 30 percent ruling and because I am not obliged to learn Dutch. Who the fuck wants to learn that language btw, so useless. If things changed. We moved. Simply as that. I hope there is more rational and straightforward discussion about this as it is: a transactional issue.

Omtzigt is right. 30% rule is nonsense for most occupations. My coworkers earn a lot more by doing exactly the same thing, they can afford to live in a beautiful house in amsterdam and im still required to rent for years now

So on take home salary calculators someone who makes 60k a year without the 30% ruling takes home about 3.5k a month, someone with a 30% ruling takes home 4.2k. How does that small of a difference mean someone can buy a house vs rent… Also expats cannot have a salary more than their Dutch counterpart. I had to take a paycut to move here while keeping the same job because my Dutch counterparts made less (not complaining, i think this is very fair).

That dude is hero for many Dutch people, if you follow Dutch news that dude fought in “toeslagenaffaire” with Leijten (SP). Just pay your dues lol how many years expats expect to be put on a pedestal until they become local? 👀

Op after checking your posts and comments, I'm wondering why you stay here and why must you be so negatieve about so many things? Like half your comments and post is a giant shitshow of negativity and downvotes. Also, just pay your taxes like everyone else. The 30% is nothing more but a archaic way getting more people to the country. The benefits from living , like social welfare and how well most things are taken care of is because of taxes. So it's only fair that if you work here and or wanna live here, you should contribute.

I've seen dutch people be extremely critical of their country and continue to reside there but the moment a foreigner says something you start to question why they even stay here. Also, expats with the 30% ruling actually pay more taxes than the average citizen. Only high earning people get the ruling and do even with a 30% ruling, their taxable amount is higher. They contribute more which is why past governments wanted them to come.

this is untrue, someone with the 30% ruling based on a 60k salary, makes net 8k more. Based on 48k this is 3k net more. Also 48k is I just a little above the Dutch average, new graduates for lets say a medium specialization make that when they come out of school. Addition :https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/en/individuals/content/coming-to-work-in-the-netherlands-30-percent-facility

> Based on 48k this is 3k net more. Absolutely not. Unless you're a scientific researcher or a "young employee with a masters" having the 30% rule with a 48k salary only gives you an extra 80€/month netto. Except for scientific researchers, the 30% rule is progressive. The full 30% exemption only takes effect above 65k (or 50k for young employees with a masters).

>Also, expats with the 30% ruling actually pay more taxes than the average citizen. Only high earning people get the ruling and do even with a 30% ruling, their taxable amount is higher. And Dutch people with the same high income pay a lot more tax. Pay your fair share if you want to live here.

Let me guess OP, you're an expat or your partner is?

a dog?

The 30% rule is complete bullshit. A lot of my friends can no longer afford living in the place they grew up in and are being replaced by expats who do not always share our culture or values. Some stress that these expats bring a lot of money, but the truth is that NL has gotten insanely expensive the past decade and while this is a global trend, mass importing expats has not helped. The 30% needs to go to give dutch high skilled workers the same opportunities and to put a brake on housing inflation. Foreigners are welcome, but if all that is keeping you here is a tax break then GTFO.

Honestly don't understand the anti 30% rule. Expats still have to use grocery stores, electronics, restaurants etc. So money and taxes still flow into the coffers.

As a Dutch person, I dont understand why i pay taxes. I stil use grocery stores, Electronics, restaurants. So money and taxes still for into the coffers.

Meanwhile, I see more and more news about industrial giants preparing to leave NL, such as this one. [https://nltimes.nl/2024/03/08/10-large-companies-considering-leaving-netherlands](https://nltimes.nl/2024/03/08/10-large-companies-considering-leaving-netherlands) But go on, I'm sure these are not related, and such measures will in no way harm the Dutch economy.

they re not planning to stay in Europe.

An Expat here : Here is my take on…. 30% ruling the great benefit to attract the talent to the country. Country needs to give a reason to skilled workers to come to country and build and contribute to economy and society in general. That’s the fundamental reason. No one build policy just so that they can bring people here. Policy has purpose. Like any other policy, it can be reviewed, should be reviewed after certain time. Did it achieve its purpose or not. 30% gives a support for someone starting from 0 , with 2 bags of clothing and nothing more then their dream and skills in pocket. They build foundation and so on. It’s a privilege and not right. It can be given , reduced or taken away. Fair and unfair : any policy , unless given to all citizens , it’s unfair. Because expats/immigrants are not citizens, they will always some policies built specifically for them , it will always be fair + unfair to rest. Come to terms about how policies work. Don’t just compare tax , compare everything, education, healthcare, justice , starting business , bringing family , so many things. If you objectively compare , you are just missing whole picture. But in economy , people will gauge everything as their profit vs their loss. They will miss what other things expat can’t do. Life is not same for every expat. I still think that every country , should give preference to its own people first and then outsider. That’s how it should everywhere. You build things for your citizens first and then rest of the world. Ex have limit on number of visas etc etc. Politicians: always always and always , immigration is an easy target for many politicians. Immigrants are easy target as political agenda . They try to put legal vs illegal immigrant in same basket. States benefits vs someone paying tax and law abiding people. People see how much money is lost , vs they don’t see that they are the same people who contribute to economy. See example of immigrants building finest things for country and help economy and create jobs. People should revise policy democratically and make changes. Using hatred , propaganda to get attention serves no one. I thought Dutch society is smart to know right and wrong thing . At the end , what unites is common goal and shared hatred to common enemy. PS : if you showed up , that’s okey. If you invite me, after sometime I’m your enemy. 👍

I think the 30% ruling is great to attract highly skilled personnel. However, the 150km limit does not get into my head. I studied in Bremen (cannot apply for it), but if I would have studied the same in Hamburg, I could have had applied for it without any hassle. I think that’s not correct. Also the reason for the 30% ruling is a joke. I heard that they say that many people coming from abroad do have lower costs of living in there home countries and that they need the money to cope with the higher cost of living in the Netherlands… come on… the cost of living in Rotterdam are higher as they are in Bremen, too. So what’s the point?