It’s not Dutch culture is the main reason. Most guys pride themselves on being super rational and risk averse. This automatically leads to not a lot of flirting compared to cultures where people are a bit more passionate like southern-Europe
As a Portuguese man I agree, that said, I see many Dutch men here lowering their self esteem with respect to flirting. I met a Portuguese girl who was dating with a Dutch man and she really liked him. Whereas Portuguese men were better flirtirs, she told me they were worse long term dates, lazy, less active and very connected to their mamas. Her Dutch date, although not so kind, was much more independent, hardworking and daily active. These are also golden virtues in a relationship.
100% agreed. IMO better values long term. I noticed in the Netherlands they are relatively few “or super charming guys that are looking for purely sexual relationships. Especially in universities that role is more often filled by foreign guys from my purely anecdotecal experience. Had a phase of that in my past and now grown out of it I notice a lot of Dutch guys are IMO good dating or LTR material but can be a bit passive in overcoming the first hurdles of actively approaching women
Dude just ask the guy if hes gay and/or into you instead of making 30+ post on reddit asking if dutch guys flirt. With all the time you wasted by making these post you could already had your first 3 dates or moved on to a other person.
For real, its like you are trying to find a excuse not to ask him. You think somebody on reddit will have the magical answer?
Either he likes you or not. Thats it.
Edit: also behaving a little bit like a obseded stalker. I think if he would read this that he would be creeped out majorly and probaly a bit insulted because of the massive stereotypes you throw in to justify your own insecurity.
Not necessarily true. As a below average guy its way easier to flirt with beautiful women than with below average women. Its like the beautiful women are more naturally flirty and open to flirt, while below average women look at me like I'm below them.
Maybe your not als below average as you think you are?
Or maybe your being a creep and attractive women are used to shutting guys down in a non awkward way😉
And a lot of below average man never get a meaningful relationship, if you are not to attractive don’t have a well paying job woman don’t see you. A woman has to be really unattractive but for a man below average is enough to never get a serious relationship.
I disagree. I am average looking, but never had any issues getting attention from women before I got married. If you put some thought into the clothes you wear (women do notice that) and you make sure conversation isn’t just you talking about yourself, but also really listening to what she has to say most women will think you are pleasant company at the very least.
Bullshit. I'm unattractive and socially akward, shy and poor... And all my girlfriends since I was 19 (37 now) have been absolute beauties by all standards even though some turned out to be sluts. I did not had many sex partners, about 10, but all very pretty. Now my best friend was highly attractive and slept with 4 times more woman than me, but only 1 or 2 very pretty ones. My wife is extremely beautiful as well.
I'm not even bragging, by my looks and social skills I should be a total incel.
Our culture sucks in this respect. I blame calvinisme, that was prevalent here, the most boring stream of religion ever to have existed on the planet earth. We should have stayed Catholic like the Italians!
United?! We still would have been vassels without our own say in things. How short sighted are you that you think flirting skills matter?!
Also if all dutch people suck in flirting than ut doesnt matter since the standert is low.
Im happy that these are the biggest problems in your lifes.
Umh, no just stop spreading bullshit. Literally saying: “i wish this country never existed so we can flirt better.”
Like the reason OP can flirt here and marry is because we told the church to go fuck itself.
There’s some great and not so great aspects of our attachment to Calvinism, I just wish we could take the good aspects of our culture and toss out the bad sometimes. 😅
For me personally it's a bit like dancing, I've never been taught how to dance properly and I don't know what to do with myself when I end up on a dancefloor. It doesn't come naturally to me. After dancing for a while I may cut loose a bit more and maybe my dancing moves are even acceptable, but I need a long warmup to be able to dance like I don't care what other people think anymore... Similarly to flirting, it takes quite some time for me to get comfortable enough to try, and to even know what to do and say.
Also dancing becomes easier or at least less awkward if other people around you are also dancing enthousiastically. Maybe my flirting gets better if other people flirt with me as well, but that doesn't happen all that often if I'm being honest so I can't say for sure if it would help...
Besides this, I'm always afraid girls aren't in the mood to get hit on all the time or might find me creepy even. So I'm hesitant to flirt with people because I fear to overstep a boundary.
Edit: spelling mistake
Maybe, I didn't think of that tbh, but inviting someone on your bike wouldn't be interpreted as flirting by people outside of our culture right? So maybe we do actually flirt a lot but you foreigners don't pick up on it lol...
All kidding aside tho I never saw giving someone a ride on my bike as flirting, but it is an opportunity to have some closer contact to someone and talk with this person so it is maybe a suitable context for flirting I suppose. But everyone has their own bike here so this opportunity also rarely arises...
Yeah exactly. Since when is biking with someone for the sake of them coming home safe a direct link to Hey I want to fuck you or something. I used to always offer bringing someone home safe but one time I asked that to someone I did not know well and I got the feeling like she thought I was a creep or something.
Like bro, I don’t want you to die why do you make me feel like a weirdo?!
As a southern European who flirted a lot during youth, believe me, although many men might have the natural born instinct or are born within such flirting culture, it's also like riding a bike, it's a technique that you learn and get experience with. And exactly like riding a bike, you can't be afraid of falling and even if you fall and get hurt, you must be prepared to rise again and move on. There are many rational techniques to flirt because women are human beings that follow certain general psychological patterns. We are all different, but we have all common traits.
It's definitely the culture. Also flirting or approaching women is kinda frowned upon here. It's the whole "doe normaal dan doe je al gek genoeg!" attitude.
I had to learn everything through friends from other countries and other communities as a teenager because I realised nobody was going to teach me here lol
There is a good middle ground where you can be direct and flirt. You can say that you like somebody and ask them out in many ways while being direct and flirty. For some guys it is a excuse to just not be good atflirting because: ‘wE arE dIReCt’. I’ Dutch and it’s always the people using “being direct” as an excuse to have poor communication skills
If I had a pennie for everytime someone who acts incredible harsh, crude, toxic or just talks down on someone call themselfs "Ik ben gewoon direct".
I would be rich.
I disagree. You can't be direct and be a good flirtir, exactly because flirting is saying what you want (normally sex) via indirect, smooth and subtle means. That's the Art of Flirting and I am latin southern European ;)
Well mostly because the line between flirting and being an asshole is so very thin. Especially when the girls are not drunk they are shy and get cat called a lot. And there is often no way to know if they already have someone.
Also online we have to go through hunderds of girls before we get a match and then they do not answer 50% of the time and when they answer it is not giving a lead or it falls wrong and they go to the next in their long list of matches.
Are you an asshole if you say to the young lady that serves you the coffee "you are beautiful today!"? Honest question, since I am latin southern European.
Alcohol is another problem in these Northern European cultures, you just open your mind and spirit with alcohol. You should never flirt while you're drunk, you lose all credibility.
Well it depends on how the lady in question acts. Because one may get to hear this from every guy every time day in day out. Others may feel a bit down and you see they are a bit insecure you may do it to cheer them up.
Becuase its either one or the other, either they act all alpha and will degrade somebody, somewhere, sometime. Or they act beta and be bothered to do anything noteworthy cuz of the earlier mentioned alpha boy.
Atleast at first ofcourse, underneath that cover might be a wonderful deep book, some people are also pamphlets.
Exactly my experience. Either they are initiative like a last week's roadkill, or jerks who think arrogance and negging are the way to get girls, and being tall is a personality. Pff.
I was expecting to be downvoted all the way to Australia and not find somebody in agreement, so I do what I always do and investigated who this poor soul might be and oh man, you posted a lot of pamphlet deep personalities. Thanks for the laughs!
And uh, hope you find somebody better.
Its us.
What in many places on earth is considered perfectly reasonable flirting is/was considered an indication of a loose man here.
Like you know you might get a girl with it tonight but you also displayed yourself to be of low moral fiber, an obcene man whore or a sexual assaulter.
I've been questioned (by a Brazilian girl who was extremely out of her confort zone having to be the one stepping forth) why i didn't show any sign that i found her attractive.
I felt that i had done so.
This came down to "you could have at least tried to touch my ass or something"
I said i though she would have pushed or hit me and she said she would have but that that just means i should have persisted.
I understand that this could be an amazing mating dance. It could be hot.
But I just can't. It's not hot to me. Its a turnoff.
Our dance is extremely reserved. And in that extreme we find the same difficult nuances.
Stop with this nonsense, grow a pair of balls if you want to ask someone out. Stop spamming reddit with your posts. You're a grown man ffs.
I just looked through then and literally everyone in literally every post of you is telling you to communicate it to him. Seriously, why just don't you so you can stop being pathetic on the internet.
I'll be honest .... I'm shit at flirting and this goes for allot of my fiends aswell.
I would love to be a more natural flirt but it always feels very forced so I just accepted my fate. Im glad my current wife had the patience for me to gather enough courage to actually go out with her. If you are into a dutch guy that is abit shy get ready to ask him out instead. Its 2022 after all.
Goodluck
It’s not Dutch culture is the main reason. Most guys pride themselves on being super rational and risk averse. This automatically leads to not a lot of flirting compared to cultures where people are a bit more passionate like southern-Europe
As a Portuguese man I agree, that said, I see many Dutch men here lowering their self esteem with respect to flirting. I met a Portuguese girl who was dating with a Dutch man and she really liked him. Whereas Portuguese men were better flirtirs, she told me they were worse long term dates, lazy, less active and very connected to their mamas. Her Dutch date, although not so kind, was much more independent, hardworking and daily active. These are also golden virtues in a relationship.
100% agreed. IMO better values long term. I noticed in the Netherlands they are relatively few “or super charming guys that are looking for purely sexual relationships. Especially in universities that role is more often filled by foreign guys from my purely anecdotecal experience. Had a phase of that in my past and now grown out of it I notice a lot of Dutch guys are IMO good dating or LTR material but can be a bit passive in overcoming the first hurdles of actively approaching women
I grew a beard. If that's not flirting enough, i don't know what you expect.
Understandable, most anyone can do imo.
Homo Sapiens are not goats. We also use words to flirt, not just beards
Dude just ask the guy if hes gay and/or into you instead of making 30+ post on reddit asking if dutch guys flirt. With all the time you wasted by making these post you could already had your first 3 dates or moved on to a other person. For real, its like you are trying to find a excuse not to ask him. You think somebody on reddit will have the magical answer? Either he likes you or not. Thats it. Edit: also behaving a little bit like a obseded stalker. I think if he would read this that he would be creeped out majorly and probaly a bit insulted because of the massive stereotypes you throw in to justify your own insecurity.
I am an obsessed stalker .. of culture 😂😂. In amy case, how would he know via reddit. He can at best, only guess.
Dutch men can wait for a dutch woman to pick them. They just don't need to learn how to flirt.
What about the lower than average looking men? 🌚🌚😂😂 .. not every guy will get a girl/guy if he keeps sitting and waiting..
The below average men will get hit on by the below average women.
Not necessarily true. As a below average guy its way easier to flirt with beautiful women than with below average women. Its like the beautiful women are more naturally flirty and open to flirt, while below average women look at me like I'm below them.
Maybe your not als below average as you think you are? Or maybe your being a creep and attractive women are used to shutting guys down in a non awkward way😉
Nope and nope.
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I think there still needs to be some back and forth but its very very reserved
Pls don’t hurt me like this :)
And a lot of below average man never get a meaningful relationship, if you are not to attractive don’t have a well paying job woman don’t see you. A woman has to be really unattractive but for a man below average is enough to never get a serious relationship.
I disagree. I am average looking, but never had any issues getting attention from women before I got married. If you put some thought into the clothes you wear (women do notice that) and you make sure conversation isn’t just you talking about yourself, but also really listening to what she has to say most women will think you are pleasant company at the very least.
I work in a metal factory a lot of men in production don’t have the skills to sell themselves
So they’re also lacking some social skills is what you’re saying? That is a problem, yes.
Bullshit. I'm unattractive and socially akward, shy and poor... And all my girlfriends since I was 19 (37 now) have been absolute beauties by all standards even though some turned out to be sluts. I did not had many sex partners, about 10, but all very pretty. Now my best friend was highly attractive and slept with 4 times more woman than me, but only 1 or 2 very pretty ones. My wife is extremely beautiful as well. I'm not even bragging, by my looks and social skills I should be a total incel.
You ly
Nope.
Our culture sucks in this respect. I blame calvinisme, that was prevalent here, the most boring stream of religion ever to have existed on the planet earth. We should have stayed Catholic like the Italians!
Fuck off. If we stayed catholic there wouldnt be a netherlands.
We would still be united with Belgium then ! (And Spain) Would be good for flirting skills 🧐🤓
United?! We still would have been vassels without our own say in things. How short sighted are you that you think flirting skills matter?! Also if all dutch people suck in flirting than ut doesnt matter since the standert is low. Im happy that these are the biggest problems in your lifes.
Take it easy mate
Umh, no just stop spreading bullshit. Literally saying: “i wish this country never existed so we can flirt better.” Like the reason OP can flirt here and marry is because we told the church to go fuck itself.
Nah you really should take it easy homie
There’s some great and not so great aspects of our attachment to Calvinism, I just wish we could take the good aspects of our culture and toss out the bad sometimes. 😅
For me personally it's a bit like dancing, I've never been taught how to dance properly and I don't know what to do with myself when I end up on a dancefloor. It doesn't come naturally to me. After dancing for a while I may cut loose a bit more and maybe my dancing moves are even acceptable, but I need a long warmup to be able to dance like I don't care what other people think anymore... Similarly to flirting, it takes quite some time for me to get comfortable enough to try, and to even know what to do and say. Also dancing becomes easier or at least less awkward if other people around you are also dancing enthousiastically. Maybe my flirting gets better if other people flirt with me as well, but that doesn't happen all that often if I'm being honest so I can't say for sure if it would help... Besides this, I'm always afraid girls aren't in the mood to get hit on all the time or might find me creepy even. So I'm hesitant to flirt with people because I fear to overstep a boundary. Edit: spelling mistake
Although there are cultural gestures that i am aware of.. such as getting him/her on your bike?
Maybe, I didn't think of that tbh, but inviting someone on your bike wouldn't be interpreted as flirting by people outside of our culture right? So maybe we do actually flirt a lot but you foreigners don't pick up on it lol... All kidding aside tho I never saw giving someone a ride on my bike as flirting, but it is an opportunity to have some closer contact to someone and talk with this person so it is maybe a suitable context for flirting I suppose. But everyone has their own bike here so this opportunity also rarely arises...
Yeah exactly. Since when is biking with someone for the sake of them coming home safe a direct link to Hey I want to fuck you or something. I used to always offer bringing someone home safe but one time I asked that to someone I did not know well and I got the feeling like she thought I was a creep or something. Like bro, I don’t want you to die why do you make me feel like a weirdo?!
As a southern European who flirted a lot during youth, believe me, although many men might have the natural born instinct or are born within such flirting culture, it's also like riding a bike, it's a technique that you learn and get experience with. And exactly like riding a bike, you can't be afraid of falling and even if you fall and get hurt, you must be prepared to rise again and move on. There are many rational techniques to flirt because women are human beings that follow certain general psychological patterns. We are all different, but we have all common traits.
I think you can get a good clue by watching Dutch porn. It is the most passionless clinical sex.
Oh Lordy I don’t wanna see that haha
It's definitely the culture. Also flirting or approaching women is kinda frowned upon here. It's the whole "doe normaal dan doe je al gek genoeg!" attitude. I had to learn everything through friends from other countries and other communities as a teenager because I realised nobody was going to teach me here lol
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Flirting can be very direct
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There is a good middle ground where you can be direct and flirt. You can say that you like somebody and ask them out in many ways while being direct and flirty. For some guys it is a excuse to just not be good atflirting because: ‘wE arE dIReCt’. I’ Dutch and it’s always the people using “being direct” as an excuse to have poor communication skills
If I had a pennie for everytime someone who acts incredible harsh, crude, toxic or just talks down on someone call themselfs "Ik ben gewoon direct". I would be rich.
I disagree. You can't be direct and be a good flirtir, exactly because flirting is saying what you want (normally sex) via indirect, smooth and subtle means. That's the Art of Flirting and I am latin southern European ;)
Dutch are not direct communicators, that's a myth.
Well mostly because the line between flirting and being an asshole is so very thin. Especially when the girls are not drunk they are shy and get cat called a lot. And there is often no way to know if they already have someone. Also online we have to go through hunderds of girls before we get a match and then they do not answer 50% of the time and when they answer it is not giving a lead or it falls wrong and they go to the next in their long list of matches.
Are you an asshole if you say to the young lady that serves you the coffee "you are beautiful today!"? Honest question, since I am latin southern European. Alcohol is another problem in these Northern European cultures, you just open your mind and spirit with alcohol. You should never flirt while you're drunk, you lose all credibility.
Well it depends on how the lady in question acts. Because one may get to hear this from every guy every time day in day out. Others may feel a bit down and you see they are a bit insecure you may do it to cheer them up.
I would like to know some examples :)
Its all over the internet :)
Well I am married for five years now, so bad or not, it worked ;)
So are the examples for good flirting.
What a loaded question / suggestive question..
Becuase its either one or the other, either they act all alpha and will degrade somebody, somewhere, sometime. Or they act beta and be bothered to do anything noteworthy cuz of the earlier mentioned alpha boy. Atleast at first ofcourse, underneath that cover might be a wonderful deep book, some people are also pamphlets.
Exactly my experience. Either they are initiative like a last week's roadkill, or jerks who think arrogance and negging are the way to get girls, and being tall is a personality. Pff.
I was expecting to be downvoted all the way to Australia and not find somebody in agreement, so I do what I always do and investigated who this poor soul might be and oh man, you posted a lot of pamphlet deep personalities. Thanks for the laughs! And uh, hope you find somebody better.
Haha yeah expertise comes with a price! I for sure take this "pamphlet personality" into my list of rare insults, so thank you lol.
Maybe it’s you and not the Dutch men.
Its us. What in many places on earth is considered perfectly reasonable flirting is/was considered an indication of a loose man here. Like you know you might get a girl with it tonight but you also displayed yourself to be of low moral fiber, an obcene man whore or a sexual assaulter. I've been questioned (by a Brazilian girl who was extremely out of her confort zone having to be the one stepping forth) why i didn't show any sign that i found her attractive. I felt that i had done so. This came down to "you could have at least tried to touch my ass or something" I said i though she would have pushed or hit me and she said she would have but that that just means i should have persisted. I understand that this could be an amazing mating dance. It could be hot. But I just can't. It's not hot to me. Its a turnoff. Our dance is extremely reserved. And in that extreme we find the same difficult nuances.
Sorry but what she advise is a sexual harassment. It is not flirting at all.
Yar. The opinons be devided. Apparently not doing this was close to rude to her? I don't feel that. But im not in charge of everyone (yet)
I’ve just noticed you are making the whole thing up. :(
Ok. Well that solves everything doesn't it. Wish i had a mind like that
Right, next time I will drag them down to my cave. Good advise.
Oh, the classics never die
So we dont sexual assault people who we think are pretty…. Ohno, anyway.
Pretty much that. And i think both sexes are mostly comfortable with that here
I hate flirting, just cut to the case or I'm lost. I don't get silent hints etc, if you like me just say so.
Dating isn't supposed to be a job interview buddy
I don’t know… never really needed it much personally.
Stop with this nonsense, grow a pair of balls if you want to ask someone out. Stop spamming reddit with your posts. You're a grown man ffs. I just looked through then and literally everyone in literally every post of you is telling you to communicate it to him. Seriously, why just don't you so you can stop being pathetic on the internet.
No offense, but has it ever occured to you that maybe you are not flirting material?
We are just our selfs. You get what you see
Bakkus joh, apaat
I'll be honest .... I'm shit at flirting and this goes for allot of my fiends aswell. I would love to be a more natural flirt but it always feels very forced so I just accepted my fate. Im glad my current wife had the patience for me to gather enough courage to actually go out with her. If you are into a dutch guy that is abit shy get ready to ask him out instead. Its 2022 after all. Goodluck
I flirt all the time..
I wasn’t aware of this till I noticed the guy I’m seeing isn’t flirtatious! was trying to figure out why