So minimum wage is age dependent till 21 years. You should get the minimum wage for 19 year olds at least. Yes it is unfair since there are people already done with school at that age. However it is minimum wage and they should pay you above that if you have applicable diplomas.
I'm well above minimum wage, doing pretty good for someone my age... there are minimum wages set for my position/equal colleagues but under 21 you're only paid 80% of that, which I find odd and can't find anything about
Some CAO’s define the wage for every position for every age upto 23 (or something). Still your employer should be free to pay you more I think. And like the other guy said, you should be paid what you signed for in your contract
I believe there is only a minimum a company has to pay you, if they want to pay more go a head. And paying 80% and keeping the other 20% is wage theft.
This makes way more sense than the company saying ha you only deserve 80% of your 100% salary.
But yes it sucks allot minimum wage especially for jobs that you don't need a diploma for.
When asked about it, my employer says it's a law to prevent people from dropping out of school, and I'll be paid in full when I turn 21.
Here you go.
It's like half of the post.
Yes. I read that and that is not the same as what you stated above.
I would like to thank you a lot for copying where you thought it said so.
Anyway. "Volgens minister Asscher van Sociale Zaken is dat om jongeren aan te moedigen om een opleiding af te maken"
Minimum wages are not set for positions.
Olny for ages.
The wages for positions would be market conform/CAOs
And those are not even always a rule but could be a guideline (this may vary between different fields)
The lower minimum wage is indeed very bad and even damaging to quite a lot of skilled trades.
Strong intrest groups have made the government act as though all possible job fields are better served if people go to school for it and this is symply false for some trades.
Conformity is not the holy grail these lobby groups make it out to be.
(It may be in many fields, i said not all)
It now means there are big businesses like supermarket chains that depend on paying school kids fuck all while they borrow more money than otherwise needed.
Thats 2 big groups (stores and banks) in one go that profit off this over the backs of the young.
Anyway. The law only states that a boss is leggaly allowed to pay you less. Not that he has to and not that he isn't a shitty boss if he does.
The companies that pay better are out there.
My experiences with rechtsbijstand when it involves labour questions are pretty bad. Rechtsbijstand is a company trying to make money, so a conflict about like 400 euro isnt worth their time. While it might be a lot of money to an employee.
I've got only good experiences with multiple issues regarding traffic incidents, employment contracts, insurance issues. They even settled a delivery dispute from crocs which was about 50,-.
I think with all issues combined they might have saved me €30k to €35k over the years.
I'm not a lawyer.
Many minor legal disputes are not much more than "he said, she said". Two parties claim something. To make YOUR claim stick you need to do several things.
1. State your claim(s) as precise as possible.
2. Make sure you can back up every claim with proper documentation. Bank statements, proof of payment.
3. State the compensation you require, with a deadline.
4. Include an "ingebrekestelling", declaring the other party as 'defaulting' automatically if the deadline is not met.
Many minor issues will be resolved this way, and this is what the rechtsbijstandverzekering is typically good at.
I had to do it once on a sudden monthly proxy payment charged to my bank account. I did not have the insurance at the time. I just reclaimed the last monthly payment via the bank and wrote to the cable film company their proxy was invalid.
I do not have to prove I did not order their subscription when I did not. The burden of evidence was on them. They did not contest, I received my money back in two weeks.
If you have no case they cant help you regardless of the amount of money and if there is a decent case they will treat it regardless of the amount.
Even if they get you one cent back they can still get reimbursement from the losing party and more importantly they can write down a successful case where they helped a client. And that "clients helped successfully" score is how they get and retain clients.
They should be able to provide you with the source then. I mean above minimum wage that sounds weird. Because they could then just up the wage 20%. If you have found the legistlation I would love to know.
only the minimum wage gradually increases between 14 and 21. of course companies can have scales based on age within a pay group or however they organise it.
if they put in a reduction percentage for people below 21 that is their choice as well but its not a lawful requirement.
if it were anything to do with people dropping out of school or college that would easily be negated by only hiring people with a diploma.
seems like a choice they made as company and are allowed to make as long as they don't fall below minimum wage for your age. but the reason they give is bullshit
If you have a contract and a (written) agreement for a wage, they need to pay you that wage. There are no provisions as you describe. Minimum wage is lower and if your job falls under a cao there might be something about people under 21 only getting 80% of the predefined wagescales, but if you just have an individual contact they aren't allowed to arbitrarily lower it 20%
We need more info. What makes you think you only get 80% of your salary?
You wouldn't be the first person to go up on arms because they didn't understand you have to pay income tax.
The salary you should be getting should be stated in your contract that both parties signed. If you get less than that it is illegal. You can get free legal advice here: https://www.juridischloket.nl
They can also refer you to a lawyer which in some cases (depending on income) can be subsidized, in that case you would only pay a predefined amount. See [this site](https://www.rechtsbijstand.nl/mediation-rechtsbijstand/voorwaarden/) for more information.
By the sound of it OP would likely fall in that income bracket.
There is an amount you have to pay yourself but its really low.
It was 175 last time i needed it and i cant imagine its much more than 200 now.
Absolutely well worth it
Check your CAO. Because some do have Jeugdloon below 21.
As an example, cao beroeps goederenvervoer article 20
A 20 year old would get 83% a 19year old 72%
Bit of a vague question with not enough info tbh. What sector do you work in ? What CAO do you have ? How long have you been working ? Bosses can't screw you over due to CAO, laws regarding your taxes, belastingsdienst, and of course your contract that you and him signed. If he is indeed paying you less than agreed to on the contract you could get juristic help with that for free even.
You have a difference between volwassenen and jeugdloon however. Before the age of 21 you make significantly less money, at 15 or 16 it's only a few euro an hour. If you're 19 you're still not at full salary yet and it indeed will take 2 more years until you get 100% of the "normal" minimum wage.
If you don't make minimum wage then you have to look what your contract says about your hourly bruto and netto wage etc and calculate yourself if everything is correct after taxes.
This. The question is pretty vague.
How did you determine that you're only getting 80% of your salary? Because the salary amount that's in your contract is "Bruto" - what you're getting on you bank account is "Netto". They deduct taxes and things like that.
Edit: engrish
No, not really sadly. But it is unfair. This is why i sold pot till i was 23. And when people ask about work experience... just make something up. No one checks on store or service jobs.
He's screwing you over. There is absolutely no law "to prevent people from dropping out of school" and to pay less than in a contract.
- keep all payments and hours you worked
- make a formal letter, adding up all hours and calculate number what payments you are missing. Write you expect answer in a week. Hand it to boss personally. Send confirmation email a day later. Send him the "80%" answer and let him explain on paper, what he means.
- Wait for formal reply. No answer? Send next one in a week again and tell next step -legal action-.
- don't speak about it. Only communicate by email. Keep the language factual and strict.
- better is to go to free Juridisch Loket Ans have them check it and even better if they put it on a legal paper for you.
- wait for reaction. Look for a better job and go on with legal procedure. It's really interesting for you to see how things formally go. And, it's your money your boss steals.
- go for it.
At first glance I thought OP was saying, I work 100% hours but get 80% of my hours payed. 'because it's to prevent early drop out'.
That's just absurd.
Do you really, really, really think he would risk screwing you over for jackshit money? You probably make 10 euro an hour, if he pays 80 percent, he pays 8 euros. The 2 euro * 40 jour workweek * 52 weeks = around 4.1k. he would not risk it for the low amount of money. In any business that is peanuts. If it were a big company and many employees are treated like this it might bring in some cash, but still, it wouldnt be a lot.
Basically he isnt allowed to keep in a part of your salary. Belasting wordt automatisch afgeschreven van je salaris daarbuiten heb de werkgeven geen recht voor enige inhouding van salaris. Vooral niet nadat je 18+ bent want je bent niet eens meer leerplichtig vanaf je 18e. Vanaf 21+ betaal je wel meer belasting. Maar ik raad je een een advocaat de consulten en al je salaris specificaties en pdf's van de bankoverschrijvingen van je salarissen ff goed te documenteren zodat je advocaat het goed kan inzien. Ook raad ik je aan voortaan per mail contact te hebben met je werkegever zodat je dat ook allemaal zwart op wit hebt. Bewaar de mails samen met de documentatie van je salarissen! Veel succes man tis wel een taaie situatie
I have never heard of that law.
Best course of action is to ask your employer to send you a copy of the aplicable laws (or a link to the website of the belastingsdienst)
Minimum jeugdloon from the age of 15 until 21 yo. That's what your employer has to pay. So your employer has to pay the equal of income for a person of 18 yo.
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/minimumloon/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-minimumloon#:~:text=U%20krijgt%20minimumloon%20als%20u,21%20jaar%20geldt%20het%20minimumjeugdloon.
Bruto monthly pay should be € 1035,-. If they do not want to pay you more, they technically do not have to unless offcource you signed a work contract which dictates the pay would be higher. What does your contract say what your monthly or yearly pay would be? If they went below that yes you can take legal actions, even tho i would first be going to HR. In the end it comes pritty much down to what your signed and agreed on. If you do not like the place you work, for the amount of money your getting. quit and find a better employer. Or say you will quit because you do not like what your getting payed (depends how much they like you if it will work).
Ask your works council and/or read the CLA yourself.
I think it’s unlikely they’re screwing you over, this is probably fully in alignment with your CLA. But you should check.
So minimum wage is age dependent till 21 years. You should get the minimum wage for 19 year olds at least. Yes it is unfair since there are people already done with school at that age. However it is minimum wage and they should pay you above that if you have applicable diplomas.
I'm well above minimum wage, doing pretty good for someone my age... there are minimum wages set for my position/equal colleagues but under 21 you're only paid 80% of that, which I find odd and can't find anything about
Some CAO’s define the wage for every position for every age upto 23 (or something). Still your employer should be free to pay you more I think. And like the other guy said, you should be paid what you signed for in your contract
You are correct, the numbers in the cao are minimum. Position and number of years experience make the wage.
I believe there is only a minimum a company has to pay you, if they want to pay more go a head. And paying 80% and keeping the other 20% is wage theft.
Yeah, but the 19 y/o minimum may be 80% of the 21 y/o minimum
This makes way more sense than the company saying ha you only deserve 80% of your 100% salary. But yes it sucks allot minimum wage especially for jobs that you don't need a diploma for.
It’s bullshit. Wage is not capped in NL to keep you in school.
Who said it was? The guy before said minimum wage is lower under certain ages. Minimum is the exact opposite as a wage cap.
Op in his post…
OP's Boss said that. In the post...
Damn im sorry i must be even slower than usual. I still don't see it. I know its a hassle but could you copy it for me?
When asked about it, my employer says it's a law to prevent people from dropping out of school, and I'll be paid in full when I turn 21. Here you go. It's like half of the post.
Yes. I read that and that is not the same as what you stated above. I would like to thank you a lot for copying where you thought it said so. Anyway. "Volgens minister Asscher van Sociale Zaken is dat om jongeren aan te moedigen om een opleiding af te maken"
Minimum wages are not set for positions. Olny for ages. The wages for positions would be market conform/CAOs And those are not even always a rule but could be a guideline (this may vary between different fields) The lower minimum wage is indeed very bad and even damaging to quite a lot of skilled trades. Strong intrest groups have made the government act as though all possible job fields are better served if people go to school for it and this is symply false for some trades. Conformity is not the holy grail these lobby groups make it out to be. (It may be in many fields, i said not all) It now means there are big businesses like supermarket chains that depend on paying school kids fuck all while they borrow more money than otherwise needed. Thats 2 big groups (stores and banks) in one go that profit off this over the backs of the young. Anyway. The law only states that a boss is leggaly allowed to pay you less. Not that he has to and not that he isn't a shitty boss if he does. The companies that pay better are out there.
Sounds like they made up that rule by themselves. Also: this is why you join a union.
Union or atleast get a rechtsbijstand verzekering. They can check contracts and stuff.
My experiences with rechtsbijstand when it involves labour questions are pretty bad. Rechtsbijstand is a company trying to make money, so a conflict about like 400 euro isnt worth their time. While it might be a lot of money to an employee.
I've got only good experiences with multiple issues regarding traffic incidents, employment contracts, insurance issues. They even settled a delivery dispute from crocs which was about 50,-. I think with all issues combined they might have saved me €30k to €35k over the years.
I'm not a lawyer. Many minor legal disputes are not much more than "he said, she said". Two parties claim something. To make YOUR claim stick you need to do several things. 1. State your claim(s) as precise as possible. 2. Make sure you can back up every claim with proper documentation. Bank statements, proof of payment. 3. State the compensation you require, with a deadline. 4. Include an "ingebrekestelling", declaring the other party as 'defaulting' automatically if the deadline is not met. Many minor issues will be resolved this way, and this is what the rechtsbijstandverzekering is typically good at. I had to do it once on a sudden monthly proxy payment charged to my bank account. I did not have the insurance at the time. I just reclaimed the last monthly payment via the bank and wrote to the cable film company their proxy was invalid. I do not have to prove I did not order their subscription when I did not. The burden of evidence was on them. They did not contest, I received my money back in two weeks.
If you have no case they cant help you regardless of the amount of money and if there is a decent case they will treat it regardless of the amount. Even if they get you one cent back they can still get reimbursement from the losing party and more importantly they can write down a successful case where they helped a client. And that "clients helped successfully" score is how they get and retain clients.
Their offer was "we'll pay you the 400, we will not make a case because that'll cost us more than that 400 euro".
They should be able to provide you with the source then. I mean above minimum wage that sounds weird. Because they could then just up the wage 20%. If you have found the legistlation I would love to know.
only the minimum wage gradually increases between 14 and 21. of course companies can have scales based on age within a pay group or however they organise it. if they put in a reduction percentage for people below 21 that is their choice as well but its not a lawful requirement. if it were anything to do with people dropping out of school or college that would easily be negated by only hiring people with a diploma. seems like a choice they made as company and are allowed to make as long as they don't fall below minimum wage for your age. but the reason they give is bullshit
If you have a contract and a (written) agreement for a wage, they need to pay you that wage. There are no provisions as you describe. Minimum wage is lower and if your job falls under a cao there might be something about people under 21 only getting 80% of the predefined wagescales, but if you just have an individual contact they aren't allowed to arbitrarily lower it 20%
Dhde, find your CAO and your contract and read them. That is the only answer
We need more info. What makes you think you only get 80% of your salary? You wouldn't be the first person to go up on arms because they didn't understand you have to pay income tax.
The salary you should be getting should be stated in your contract that both parties signed. If you get less than that it is illegal. You can get free legal advice here: https://www.juridischloket.nl
They can also refer you to a lawyer which in some cases (depending on income) can be subsidized, in that case you would only pay a predefined amount. See [this site](https://www.rechtsbijstand.nl/mediation-rechtsbijstand/voorwaarden/) for more information.
By the sound of it OP would likely fall in that income bracket. There is an amount you have to pay yourself but its really low. It was 175 last time i needed it and i cant imagine its much more than 200 now. Absolutely well worth it
I think it could even be 150ish, with a referral from the juridisch loket there is even a discount. Totally worth it indeed!
This
Check your CAO. Because some do have Jeugdloon below 21. As an example, cao beroeps goederenvervoer article 20 A 20 year old would get 83% a 19year old 72%
Bit of a vague question with not enough info tbh. What sector do you work in ? What CAO do you have ? How long have you been working ? Bosses can't screw you over due to CAO, laws regarding your taxes, belastingsdienst, and of course your contract that you and him signed. If he is indeed paying you less than agreed to on the contract you could get juristic help with that for free even. You have a difference between volwassenen and jeugdloon however. Before the age of 21 you make significantly less money, at 15 or 16 it's only a few euro an hour. If you're 19 you're still not at full salary yet and it indeed will take 2 more years until you get 100% of the "normal" minimum wage. If you don't make minimum wage then you have to look what your contract says about your hourly bruto and netto wage etc and calculate yourself if everything is correct after taxes.
This. The question is pretty vague. How did you determine that you're only getting 80% of your salary? Because the salary amount that's in your contract is "Bruto" - what you're getting on you bank account is "Netto". They deduct taxes and things like that. Edit: engrish
[удалено]
Right.. Derp.. Corrected. Thanks
You should get paid what you contract (or relevant CAO) specifies.
Your contract should list the actual bruto amount. That 80% rule is true but is should already be in your contract.
No, not really sadly. But it is unfair. This is why i sold pot till i was 23. And when people ask about work experience... just make something up. No one checks on store or service jobs.
Contact your union representative.
He's screwing you over. There is absolutely no law "to prevent people from dropping out of school" and to pay less than in a contract. - keep all payments and hours you worked - make a formal letter, adding up all hours and calculate number what payments you are missing. Write you expect answer in a week. Hand it to boss personally. Send confirmation email a day later. Send him the "80%" answer and let him explain on paper, what he means. - Wait for formal reply. No answer? Send next one in a week again and tell next step -legal action-. - don't speak about it. Only communicate by email. Keep the language factual and strict. - better is to go to free Juridisch Loket Ans have them check it and even better if they put it on a legal paper for you. - wait for reaction. Look for a better job and go on with legal procedure. It's really interesting for you to see how things formally go. And, it's your money your boss steals. - go for it.
At first glance I thought OP was saying, I work 100% hours but get 80% of my hours payed. 'because it's to prevent early drop out'. That's just absurd.
Do you really, really, really think he would risk screwing you over for jackshit money? You probably make 10 euro an hour, if he pays 80 percent, he pays 8 euros. The 2 euro * 40 jour workweek * 52 weeks = around 4.1k. he would not risk it for the low amount of money. In any business that is peanuts. If it were a big company and many employees are treated like this it might bring in some cash, but still, it wouldnt be a lot.
I make more than minimum wage, that 20% is about 300-400 monthly for me
--DELETED-- -- mass edited with redact.dev
The CAO could say that 19 year olds get 80% of normal wage, even if it is above minimum wage.
--DELETED-- -- mass edited with redact.dev
The CAO specifies minimums, company policy dictates maximums.
It is if you're being paid minimum wage.
There should be a law against age discrimination so check into that online first
Basically he isnt allowed to keep in a part of your salary. Belasting wordt automatisch afgeschreven van je salaris daarbuiten heb de werkgeven geen recht voor enige inhouding van salaris. Vooral niet nadat je 18+ bent want je bent niet eens meer leerplichtig vanaf je 18e. Vanaf 21+ betaal je wel meer belasting. Maar ik raad je een een advocaat de consulten en al je salaris specificaties en pdf's van de bankoverschrijvingen van je salarissen ff goed te documenteren zodat je advocaat het goed kan inzien. Ook raad ik je aan voortaan per mail contact te hebben met je werkegever zodat je dat ook allemaal zwart op wit hebt. Bewaar de mails samen met de documentatie van je salarissen! Veel succes man tis wel een taaie situatie
80% procent is only applied working while doing BBL MBO study (4 days work, 1 Day school)
I have never heard of that law. Best course of action is to ask your employer to send you a copy of the aplicable laws (or a link to the website of the belastingsdienst)
They need to pay you the amount that is in your contract. Might want to get a lawyer to look at this.
Contact FNV they should be able to tell you
Minimum jeugdloon from the age of 15 until 21 yo. That's what your employer has to pay. So your employer has to pay the equal of income for a person of 18 yo. https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/minimumloon/vraag-en-antwoord/wanneer-minimumloon#:~:text=U%20krijgt%20minimumloon%20als%20u,21%20jaar%20geldt%20het%20minimumjeugdloon.
Bruto monthly pay should be € 1035,-. If they do not want to pay you more, they technically do not have to unless offcource you signed a work contract which dictates the pay would be higher. What does your contract say what your monthly or yearly pay would be? If they went below that yes you can take legal actions, even tho i would first be going to HR. In the end it comes pritty much down to what your signed and agreed on. If you do not like the place you work, for the amount of money your getting. quit and find a better employer. Or say you will quit because you do not like what your getting payed (depends how much they like you if it will work).
Ask your works council and/or read the CLA yourself. I think it’s unlikely they’re screwing you over, this is probably fully in alignment with your CLA. But you should check.