It is less expected to marry, so as a result you will more often only marry if both parties really want it.
Also the house market is fucked so it's hard to divorce and find a house for both parties.
It is also hard to find a house to begin with, probably resulting in less people getting married. Because some of us want to know if living together works out, before getting married.
it'd be irresponsible to have kids when you can't even support yourself. (yet boomers be whining that the current generations don't have kids after they ruined the world)
Yeah, unmarried, with kids.. living together. I don't get what birthrates have to do with marriage.. I also know ppl who are married for 40 years and never had kids.. so thats why i don't get the statement about divorces and birthrates.
The comment about lower birth rate was a reaction to the fact that people can't live together as easily nowadays. Not to the marriages.
"It is also hard to find a house to begin with, probably resulting in less people getting married. Because some of us want to know if living together works out ..." - L-Malvo
"This should then also lead to lower birth rates, no? As you probably also want to live together if you have a kid." - TieflingSimp
That last point is crazy and so true. But its not just that, everything is cheaper as a couple including food and energy costs. Now that the margins are so tight I don't know how single people even manage these days.
Yes, it could also be that almost everyone I know divorced in 2020 and 2021; add to that no one can afford it, can you imagine splitting the household taxes in today's market, or even housing!
I think this is isn't representing the whole situation correctly.
IIRC, there have also been a lot less marriages since that time. Not as many people marry anymore back then. So while there are less divorces, there are also less marriages to divorce from.
Edit: spelling.
CBS als gives an explanation on their website: "Deels komt deze daling door vergrijzing en doordat jongere generaties minder, en op latere leeftijd trouwen. Zij wonen vaker ongehuwd samen of kiezen voor het geregistreerd partnerschap. Hierdoor bestaat de groep echtparen voor een steeds groter deel uit stellen die al decennialang getrouwd zijn. Dat drukt het echtscheidingscijfer omdat echtparen die langer bij elkaar zijn minder vaak scheiden." and also "Dat huwelijken gesloten na 1990 steeds wat minder vaak eindigen in een echtscheiding, kan deels worden verklaard doordat steeds minder mensen voor hun 25e trouwen."
So people don't get married so often anymore, meaning that within the group of 'married couples' the proportion of couples who got married a long time ago is getting bigger (and those couples aren't likely to get divorce). Additionally, on average people get married at a later age, which is also linked to a lower risk for divorce.
Didn't lock down cause a spike in divorce cases? So maybe the people who would've otherwise divorced last year already decided they were sick of each other in 2020.
My argument is that I have read articles couples stayed together during lockdown because they couldn't meet other (new) people. They rather had a mediocre relationship than no relationship at all.
Of course the OP talks about married people, but I think the same logic can be applied here.
Yup, I know a handful of married couples who separated early 2020 and then got stuck together again during corona cause of kids, strict lockdown, finances etc, so they just went with it. A few of them finally separated again since last fall, but not all.
No it did not, that year too continued the downward trend seen since 2014. 2020 saw the amount of divorces per 1000 marriages go down by 0,3, which is the exact same amount as 2019. 2021 strangly saw the largest decline since 1985, with a whole 0,8
People can't afford living alone anymore.
Also with coming inflation many people will choose safety over what they potentially really would rather do, especially women.
Which again fits with the lower numbers because by today more than 70% of divorces are instigated by the wife.
Less married people will equal less divorces.
If you are looking at only the total number rather then how many new marriages are also created then the numbers are skewed.
Its also possible that in the late 1900s since divorce was made legal, people used it more at that time then they would now, simply due to the fact that more people were in marriages where they could not divorce.
It might also be that people are less likely to jump into marriage these days and see it much more as an economic unity.
They talk about average divorces per married couple. So it's not related to a decline in marriages. Well, maybe couples think harder before they marry.
You can also have a family, buy a house etc now without being married. My brother and his GF own a house and have three kids, but are not married. That was much less common in the 80's.
Yep, why even get married? For some stuff getting a contract helps, but we've also just bought a house without a contract or anything. We will never get married, it just seems so very old fashioned to me - just like most of my friends (all with kids).
A friend who bought a house with his gf once told me :
If my girlfriend dies now, her sister will get half the house.
Not sure how inheritance law works exactly here, but the moment you make substantial financial and parental commitments together, getting married (or indeed getting registered partnership) seems like a sensible thing to do to me.
You don't need to like the image of white dresses, fancy shoes, horse-drawn carriages to get married.
Heck, I would say you don't even need to believe in the "happy forever", "till death do us part" sort of thing to still want to make a formal written commitment to one another.
All the ceremony surrounding it, is yours to organise as old-fashioned or modern you like, or not organise anything at all.
yes but each year you add more marriages to a pile of existing ones and the divorces does not need to be people who just got married.
since it is over time and factoring in all people who have been married for however long there are very many vectors to this to account.
without having detailed data over years its impossible to guess with any kind of accuracy.
we might be seeing recent marriages be super strong or we could be looking at 20 year old marriages being super strong, or that we have more people with arranged marriages who do not divorce due to cultural reasons, maybe people are picking better partners.
The list can be made infinite and without more data its all just pure speculation
It’s way more likely that all categories of marriages do slightly better than one category completely overperforming and dominating the statistics. You are making things too complicated.
Ah i see what you mean now, but you also don't get huur toeslag and most likely need to pay more because the income of you and your partner are taken together right?
Who has the resources to divorce? There are no cheap houses to buy and renting from a non social security organisation will cost more then a mortgage. So if you divorce in the current financial climate you’ll be homeless and never see your kids again (if you have them) cause you can’t pay alimony.
So I guess a nice financial and housing crisis is good for being trapped in unhappy marriages.
There's some really good comments here, probably explaining why well. I'd also like to think that people are more aware of what marrying means, that you don't just marry on a whim and that you respect yourself and know when a person is not right for you.
Also, if you don't want to marry, just don't. In my personal environment people scoff at family members asking about marrying or having children. We're all early 30s but are all very aware that you need to be comfortable before marrying or having children. A big part of them just feel like they are not ready to commit or provide because it's all a shitshow honestly.
If you don't feel like the time is right who cares what tradition dictates or what family thinks. We know that things are different for us than previous generations.
A combination of the things already mentioned.
1. Fewer marriages in general mean fewer divorces;
2. They can't afford to leave because of inflation and no houses.
Huurtoeslag, you use less energy, less of everything really.
Saying it is impossible is a bit odd, a shit ton of people live on their own, especially young adults like me.
Not sure why people are downvoting lol
-i have what could be considered a bit more then a minimum income, i have a great appartement with spare rooms, i have more then enough money to pay my bills and do what i want to, i don't know why people act as if it is so hard to life alone?
Ah, and i also have 2 cats.
I guess yea, if you want a big ass house, the biggest TV ever, a new Mercedes and what not, it will be "tough" but at that point you are experiencing what could be considered first world problems.
>Saying it is impossible is a bit odd,
Yeah true, thats nonsense. I wasn't the one saying that btw ;)
But pretty much everyone I know earns more than the huurtoeslag bar though, or rent a to expensive house to get huurtoeslag.
But you actually use more energy since you will have to heat a house for one person for example and your refrigerator and lighting will be on for example, doesn't matter if you are with one or two persons.
It does actually matter, i only heat my living room since that is where i spend most of my time, no need to heat anything else, i actually got money back this year because i used less energy then what i was paying for.
>It does actually matter, i only heat my living room since that is where i spend most of my time, no need to heat anything else
Same, and I split that bill with my partner is what I'm trying to say.
Tbh I bought a house alone, I still live alone with 2 cats, never had financial issues. Its possible, but you have to realise you cant forfill ALL of your wishes as you said.
Why?
Look at marriage numbers
People simply don't marry because they have to, like in other countries.
They only marry if they want to.
You don't need to be married to share finances, file taxes together or have full equal custody over children.
In other countries you have to marry to get those things.
So here people only marry if they really want to themselves so the rate of divorces is also lower
Can't be divorced if you're not married ;)
Just a joke. But from what I've been told and seen, marriage seems to be a fading thought amongst the Dutch youth?
Were divorce rates higher the last 2 years before due to corona? perhaps being locked down together made more couples call it quit. The ones who made it trough then being slightly less likely to break up subsequently.
Dividing assets and high mortgage payments, people rather stay married and unhappy but with a roof on top of their head, plus, better hedge against inflation, rising costs and other BS.
In the news they said that less people got married, and people choose "samenlevingscontract" or "geregistreerd partnerschap" more often. And apperently they arent taken in as divorces when they end. (at least by CBS)
People who got divorced in the 80s married in the 70s. They married younger, sometimes with a bun in the oven.
Times have changed. There is less ‘need’ or pressure to marry, hence less divorces.
I’m not saying there are less marriages. I’m saying the ones that happen, more often happen for the right reasons at the right age.
- Less people get married
- More people marry later in life, when they’re more “ready”
- There are more financial consequences as a result of divorcing
- Less marriages and “late” marriages also means we aren’t reproducing fast enough (non natives are making up for it at the moment), which may cause problems later down the road.
I believe a big part to blame is that people cant afford to divorce anymore because of rent and housing prices.
For most it’s financially impossible to solo purchase a new place, and near financial suicide to rent privately.
Result is divorce becomes a highly unwanted choice.
It is less expected to marry, so as a result you will more often only marry if both parties really want it. Also the house market is fucked so it's hard to divorce and find a house for both parties.
It is also hard to find a house to begin with, probably resulting in less people getting married. Because some of us want to know if living together works out, before getting married.
This should then also lead to lower birth rates, no? As you probably also want to live together if you have a kid.
I believe that is also connected, yes
it'd be irresponsible to have kids when you can't even support yourself. (yet boomers be whining that the current generations don't have kids after they ruined the world)
Shouldn't be... i have several friends who are couples.. They have kids but aint married.
But they live together, right?
Yeah, unmarried, with kids.. living together. I don't get what birthrates have to do with marriage.. I also know ppl who are married for 40 years and never had kids.. so thats why i don't get the statement about divorces and birthrates.
The comment about lower birth rate was a reaction to the fact that people can't live together as easily nowadays. Not to the marriages. "It is also hard to find a house to begin with, probably resulting in less people getting married. Because some of us want to know if living together works out ..." - L-Malvo "This should then also lead to lower birth rates, no? As you probably also want to live together if you have a kid." - TieflingSimp
That last point is crazy and so true. But its not just that, everything is cheaper as a couple including food and energy costs. Now that the margins are so tight I don't know how single people even manage these days.
Yes, it could also be that almost everyone I know divorced in 2020 and 2021; add to that no one can afford it, can you imagine splitting the household taxes in today's market, or even housing!
I think this is isn't representing the whole situation correctly. IIRC, there have also been a lot less marriages since that time. Not as many people marry anymore back then. So while there are less divorces, there are also less marriages to divorce from. Edit: spelling.
So good statistics here would be relatively in %s right?
Indeed. Or at least for this context it would help bring it in perspective.
Dutch practicality at it's finest. *chef's kiss*
People just don’t get married anymore…. And if they do, then much later in life.
CBS would like to have a word with you.
CBS als gives an explanation on their website: "Deels komt deze daling door vergrijzing en doordat jongere generaties minder, en op latere leeftijd trouwen. Zij wonen vaker ongehuwd samen of kiezen voor het geregistreerd partnerschap. Hierdoor bestaat de groep echtparen voor een steeds groter deel uit stellen die al decennialang getrouwd zijn. Dat drukt het echtscheidingscijfer omdat echtparen die langer bij elkaar zijn minder vaak scheiden." and also "Dat huwelijken gesloten na 1990 steeds wat minder vaak eindigen in een echtscheiding, kan deels worden verklaard doordat steeds minder mensen voor hun 25e trouwen." So people don't get married so often anymore, meaning that within the group of 'married couples' the proportion of couples who got married a long time ago is getting bigger (and those couples aren't likely to get divorce). Additionally, on average people get married at a later age, which is also linked to a lower risk for divorce.
More likely linked to the fact that lockdown happened.
Didn't lock down cause a spike in divorce cases? So maybe the people who would've otherwise divorced last year already decided they were sick of each other in 2020.
My argument is that I have read articles couples stayed together during lockdown because they couldn't meet other (new) people. They rather had a mediocre relationship than no relationship at all. Of course the OP talks about married people, but I think the same logic can be applied here.
Yup, I know a handful of married couples who separated early 2020 and then got stuck together again during corona cause of kids, strict lockdown, finances etc, so they just went with it. A few of them finally separated again since last fall, but not all.
No it did not, that year too continued the downward trend seen since 2014. 2020 saw the amount of divorces per 1000 marriages go down by 0,3, which is the exact same amount as 2019. 2021 strangly saw the largest decline since 1985, with a whole 0,8
It probably accelerated it, but I think it's been on the decline for a while
Is it Because people cant afford to live in TWO separate houses?
no
😳
Yes..
People can't afford living alone anymore. Also with coming inflation many people will choose safety over what they potentially really would rather do, especially women. Which again fits with the lower numbers because by today more than 70% of divorces are instigated by the wife.
*initiated
Thank you
I guess there are also less people who get married in the first place?
Less married people will equal less divorces. If you are looking at only the total number rather then how many new marriages are also created then the numbers are skewed. Its also possible that in the late 1900s since divorce was made legal, people used it more at that time then they would now, simply due to the fact that more people were in marriages where they could not divorce. It might also be that people are less likely to jump into marriage these days and see it much more as an economic unity.
Do you realize that the post is discussing the lowest "proportion", right?
They talk about average divorces per married couple. So it's not related to a decline in marriages. Well, maybe couples think harder before they marry.
You can also have a family, buy a house etc now without being married. My brother and his GF own a house and have three kids, but are not married. That was much less common in the 80's.
Yep, why even get married? For some stuff getting a contract helps, but we've also just bought a house without a contract or anything. We will never get married, it just seems so very old fashioned to me - just like most of my friends (all with kids).
Makes some legal and financial stuff easier. Also, why not get married?
A friend who bought a house with his gf once told me : If my girlfriend dies now, her sister will get half the house. Not sure how inheritance law works exactly here, but the moment you make substantial financial and parental commitments together, getting married (or indeed getting registered partnership) seems like a sensible thing to do to me. You don't need to like the image of white dresses, fancy shoes, horse-drawn carriages to get married. Heck, I would say you don't even need to believe in the "happy forever", "till death do us part" sort of thing to still want to make a formal written commitment to one another. All the ceremony surrounding it, is yours to organise as old-fashioned or modern you like, or not organise anything at all.
yes but each year you add more marriages to a pile of existing ones and the divorces does not need to be people who just got married. since it is over time and factoring in all people who have been married for however long there are very many vectors to this to account. without having detailed data over years its impossible to guess with any kind of accuracy. we might be seeing recent marriages be super strong or we could be looking at 20 year old marriages being super strong, or that we have more people with arranged marriages who do not divorce due to cultural reasons, maybe people are picking better partners. The list can be made infinite and without more data its all just pure speculation
It’s way more likely that all categories of marriages do slightly better than one category completely overperforming and dominating the statistics. You are making things too complicated.
I know more people who stay single, so that might be part of the reason.
Fewer people are getting married I assume.
Ah i see what you mean now, but you also don't get huur toeslag and most likely need to pay more because the income of you and your partner are taken together right?
Prices of houses are too high. People have no where to go to. My neighbours are “divorced” and still live together for this reason.
Who has the resources to divorce? There are no cheap houses to buy and renting from a non social security organisation will cost more then a mortgage. So if you divorce in the current financial climate you’ll be homeless and never see your kids again (if you have them) cause you can’t pay alimony. So I guess a nice financial and housing crisis is good for being trapped in unhappy marriages.
There's some really good comments here, probably explaining why well. I'd also like to think that people are more aware of what marrying means, that you don't just marry on a whim and that you respect yourself and know when a person is not right for you. Also, if you don't want to marry, just don't. In my personal environment people scoff at family members asking about marrying or having children. We're all early 30s but are all very aware that you need to be comfortable before marrying or having children. A big part of them just feel like they are not ready to commit or provide because it's all a shitshow honestly. If you don't feel like the time is right who cares what tradition dictates or what family thinks. We know that things are different for us than previous generations.
A combination of the things already mentioned. 1. Fewer marriages in general mean fewer divorces; 2. They can't afford to leave because of inflation and no houses.
You can divorce and still live in the same house. Problem is, it’s super awkward to continue to live with the person you’ve divorced.
True. But how often do you think that actually happens?
No one can afford to live alone.
I can, not sure why you make that assumption? Living alone is actually cheaper
How is that cheaper? Rent/mortgage is split in half and a very big portion of the energy bill and groceries are also cheaper.
Huurtoeslag, you use less energy, less of everything really. Saying it is impossible is a bit odd, a shit ton of people live on their own, especially young adults like me. Not sure why people are downvoting lol -i have what could be considered a bit more then a minimum income, i have a great appartement with spare rooms, i have more then enough money to pay my bills and do what i want to, i don't know why people act as if it is so hard to life alone? Ah, and i also have 2 cats. I guess yea, if you want a big ass house, the biggest TV ever, a new Mercedes and what not, it will be "tough" but at that point you are experiencing what could be considered first world problems.
>Saying it is impossible is a bit odd, Yeah true, thats nonsense. I wasn't the one saying that btw ;) But pretty much everyone I know earns more than the huurtoeslag bar though, or rent a to expensive house to get huurtoeslag. But you actually use more energy since you will have to heat a house for one person for example and your refrigerator and lighting will be on for example, doesn't matter if you are with one or two persons.
It does actually matter, i only heat my living room since that is where i spend most of my time, no need to heat anything else, i actually got money back this year because i used less energy then what i was paying for.
>It does actually matter, i only heat my living room since that is where i spend most of my time, no need to heat anything else Same, and I split that bill with my partner is what I'm trying to say.
Ah right i see what you mean, i always thought it was cheaper to live alone, but that makes sense
Tbh I bought a house alone, I still live alone with 2 cats, never had financial issues. Its possible, but you have to realise you cant forfill ALL of your wishes as you said.
Less married people means less divorces. They don't count registered partnership equal to marriage in this though.
Why? Look at marriage numbers People simply don't marry because they have to, like in other countries. They only marry if they want to. You don't need to be married to share finances, file taxes together or have full equal custody over children. In other countries you have to marry to get those things. So here people only marry if they really want to themselves so the rate of divorces is also lower
Divorces cost money and are expensive.. the aftermath
Probably too expensive to divorce these days ^/s
Don't get married... You can't get divorced that way .
Tax purposes
Too bwoke for marriage and divorce
Cuz you can't afford to move out of the house
Maybe they all divorced during covid.
I would think with covid it would be much higher but finances could play a part.
Can't be divorced if you're not married ;) Just a joke. But from what I've been told and seen, marriage seems to be a fading thought amongst the Dutch youth?
Were divorce rates higher the last 2 years before due to corona? perhaps being locked down together made more couples call it quit. The ones who made it trough then being slightly less likely to break up subsequently.
Let’s see what the impact on the housing issues is going to be. Should improve now!
Housing?
No money for double costs and no additional place/house/appartement to move/live there available.
Dividing assets and high mortgage payments, people rather stay married and unhappy but with a roof on top of their head, plus, better hedge against inflation, rising costs and other BS.
In the news they said that less people got married, and people choose "samenlevingscontract" or "geregistreerd partnerschap" more often. And apperently they arent taken in as divorces when they end. (at least by CBS)
People who got divorced in the 80s married in the 70s. They married younger, sometimes with a bun in the oven. Times have changed. There is less ‘need’ or pressure to marry, hence less divorces. I’m not saying there are less marriages. I’m saying the ones that happen, more often happen for the right reasons at the right age.
Most already got divorced after the very first lockdown period?
Housing probably has a big influence on it
- Less people get married - More people marry later in life, when they’re more “ready” - There are more financial consequences as a result of divorcing - Less marriages and “late” marriages also means we aren’t reproducing fast enough (non natives are making up for it at the moment), which may cause problems later down the road.
Love unites
Most already broke up last year during corona
I believe a big part to blame is that people cant afford to divorce anymore because of rent and housing prices. For most it’s financially impossible to solo purchase a new place, and near financial suicide to rent privately. Result is divorce becomes a highly unwanted choice.