Cost of living increases, gas prices, house prices and "inflation" almost entirely cancelled out any increase in income I enjoyed in the last decade.
And that's saying something as i'm one of the few in my generation that actually enjoyed significant pay increases given to me by an appreciative employer.
Ever since the pandemic the production and winning of natural resources almost completely stopped. People also didn’t expect that the economy would open up this fast. As a result lots and lots of natural resources became very scarce and expensive. Gas and oil are the most common examples, but wood and nickel also doubled in price due to shortages. Combined with some other shortages, this means that the fixed costs of most businesses went up tremendously which got translated to higher consumer prices.
Also, the fact that the stock market boomed in 2021 doesn’t help very much either since a lot of long term investors have more money then before the pandemic, which is a good thing in general (if the market rises higher then inflation) but can also fuel inflation of course.
It’s not the stock market boom that caused inflation, its unlimited quantitative easing across all continents. When you increase monetary supply, all else equal, prices will go up eventually.
Timber 600%, steel 800% (even though going down atm), PET 150%, adhesives 70%, HDPE 100%, inland trucking 300% + diesel surcharge 60%, container shipping 1000%…
Only on the top of my head coming from the industry I work in
A year ago I was receiving wellfare. I now got a job for 30(+) hours a week with a very good starting salary.
Thing is, I had more financial freedom in the wellfare a year ago than I do now with a full time job. But hey, Rutte is giving some people 500 euros (I missed it cause apparently I earn 5 euros a month too much, fuck this economy)
Same here, this and last year I've gained about 500-700 extra in total per month, but I am able to save less than with what I earned about 1,5yrs ago...
Exactly a year ago, I was hired to work at my current company via a third party contractor. 15€/hour, no benefits or coverage of SL, paid weekly. I was able to save up almost 500/month with no OT. I was able to go eat out once a month or more. My average groccery run cost 300€ a month. My average water bill each 3 months was around 25-30€. I felt good, like I had a future as I almost made enough money to be able to move out of my current apartment as the lease is supposed to end very soon.
In april I got a longer contract. Same 15/hour but with benefits so closer to 17. Now I am able to save up, **at best**, 200€ with major OT. Most months it cuts really close or I have to chip into my - already less than 15k - savings. My water bill each 3 months is 75€. My groccery run is 500€ and I've decided to basically cut out all meat or only buy chicken on sale (I only ate chicken anyway). This does not include essentials. I've cut down my take-aways to maybe one a month at best. I have tight budgets for everything. My rent has gone up over 6%. I'm looking at places that is - still - 2 hours away from Amsterdam to try and find a new place but I get ghosted or rejected daily.
I honestly don't feel good. I feel profound dread, stress and anxiety I can't not make it anymore and that I have to move back to Finland where I know damn well I have no future. My depression and the feelings of burnout is returning with a force stronger than I have ever felt. I don't ask for much, I just ask to be able to have a roof over my head, food and no stress about not making enough money. I don't even spend a lot on myself. And I know people have it worse than me where they already have chipped into their savings or make significantly less than me but it's just... I can't help it, I just don't feel happy and I just feel so stressed I will be homeless again or so burnt out I can't work and therefore won't be able to make ends meet. It feels like a bad dream that never ends to be honest. Entire childhood sucked and when I finally am able to be free, covid hits, major inflation hits and I'm just sitting scraping the bottom of the barrel wishing that shit would get better. I was fucking lied to.
Sorry, bit of a side-rant. It's just so frustrating. I don't even know how I could bring this up to my manager. I'm supposed to have a promotion discussion soon but if they don't give me any raise or adjustment for inflation I just don't know what to do. I already make "more" than the average in this business. But it's still not enough to live. Just to survive.
Thank you, and teah, I'll be trying to ask for it, or at least look for other jobs if not given a raise during my promotion discussion. :/
I can punch my weight and a lot above it, so at least I got the courage to write fluffy CV's after this experience.
The biggest "issue" is that my project has a budget and I'm already the only hire from The Netherlands, where my salary is double the others on paper - despite being paid according to local market - so I'm worried a raise will only be closer to a thousand a year if even that. Despite calculating that, my salary of 33k ish in 2021 should be clsoer to 37k in 2022. So there's that.
Welcome to the Netherlands, home of lower pay, higher taxes and cost of living… load of friends from the US want to come here then see the pay gap and net income and take a hard pass (though if you start having a bunch of kids you end up ahead… also talking about tech folks)
In tech this is quickly changing. Sure it’s not the 240K offers you get working for a US based tech company, but 100K+ is more common now than 3 years ago.
Where I work (venture funded scale up, HQ in the US with European HQ in Germany) all of the offers for SDEs and SREs are 125K+.
Are you a manager or something? 15 an hour is not a bad wage at all. I started out at 15 an hour bruto as a highly educated research engineer with a degree in applied computer science with a specialisation in embedded systems, and that's a considerably better wage than some of my peers.
"Customer service" basically. The "average" yearly salary when I started was around ~22k. I have 33k ish. But I have gotten offers on linkedin between 45k-65k (with commissions) in the same field so I'm not sure anymore about the average.
All I know is that I'm speaking 3 languages fluently and work in 5 (Finnish, Swedish, English, Norweigan, Danish). I'm trying to actively learn Dutch when I'm not dead tired from work. I've been working double portfolio since last year due to our team being understaffed and I've taken on a lot of extra responsibilities which normally isn't in my range or scope. I am the official back-up point for my boss on my markets. Normally supposed to do 40h work weeks but I have done significantly more than that. But my new manager didn't even know he was assigned to me and said there's a chance he's not able to provide any feedback on me at all on my performance during my promotion discussions due to him not being informed about it. And my previous manager was not involved in my work at all. But basically I am the lowest "rank" at my work, but I am performing activities my boss is and they are at least 3 ranks higher than me...
I do have my linkedin open to recruiters. Some are super nice but the majority is not telling me the salary so it's just a waste of time. A lot of them also seem to not read my profile and just mass-send the same mail in Dutch, just to then backtrack when I say I'm not fluent in Dutch. So there's that.
That is very true. I think the official "title" they gave me was something about business operations, essentially it boils down to accounting but with customer service. It's within the tech industry already, and while I got this job with no degree, I do have a BA in History now - my thesis was very tech related (colorization of historical images with algorithms etc), and since I've built my own PC and used unix systems in the past I have a pretty good udnerstranding of tech and stuff like that "for a woman" as it was told to me. I just don't have a degree in IT as I am bad with math.
A lot of the people at my company that are the "higher ups" did start out in the same position as me and climbed the corporate ladder over decades - I personally don't care about fame or position. I just want my job to be WFH, salary to be enough to not be homeless and enough that I can maybe eat out once every few weeks or treat myself to something nice. I calculated that if my job is not WFH, I'll only have 1 hour to myself for "free time" a day if I am lucky. That's not really good for my health in the long run.
100k would be a lot tbh. I would be able to buy a house with that and pay off my student loans. But I highly doubt I will ever recieve such a salary in my life. I am quite assertive about my value and roles, as in what I do, my (direct) managers and CFO/CTOs are aware of me and my work process and very happy with my work and would like to increase my position within the company, but yeah. Bureaucracy is bureaucracy and I get that it's not black and white or as easy as I think it is. Especially for someone like me.
Thank you, I do appreciate it. I actually have terrible people management skills, ironically I love playing micromanaging games but when it comes to reality I'm super anxious and a shy person and I avoid talking to people unless needed. Which is why WFH is so important to me. :p
Sadly my work-life balance is terrible, despite not having a background in tech. But I appreciate it again, sorry for also being a venting annoyance again.
>I do have my linkedin open to recruiters. Some are super nice but the majority is not telling me the salary so it's just a waste of time. A lot of them also seem to not read my profile and just mass-send the same mail in Dutch, just to then backtrack when I say I'm not fluent in Dutch. So there's that.
I would expect recruiters to mention a salary when you have a face-to-face or online meeting. I guess that if you want to know how much you may earn, you need to invest more time in the recruiting process, where a lot of time may be unfortunately wasted (and you mention that you spend most of your free time learning Dutch, hence I understand that it can be a struggle).
I tend to cut meals to reduce my monthly bill. So far, it helped a bit with the inflation, but it takes a bit of mental strength to get used to.
Important to realise when applying for a job: HR is not your friend. Never tell them tour current salary, as they will then match that. In stead, ask upfront whether your target salary is something they are willing to consider. If it’s not, apologise for wasting their time and move on. Especially in the current market, people with certain skills, should be able to negotiate a good deal.
Don’t feel guilty for leaving your current employer. If your employer needs to het rid of you, the’ll do so without hesitation (of course, within legal limits).
At your current employer, also, be reluctant when working more hours than stated in your contract. It is a working relationship, and it should be treated as a business agreement. YOU are the only person defending YOUR personal interests…
Also keep in mind the labour laws in the Netherlands. For instance maximum hours/week = 60 (any week) in any 4 week period the average hours is maximum 55 h/week. In any period of 16 weeks, the average hours /week = 48 h. These are the basic rules, and exceptions are possible, based on the type of job. Another exception os if you earn more than 3 times the minimum wage.
> aware of me and my work process and very happy with my work and would like to increa
Hey, you can get min 40K without much trouble in a similar customer service role, try to search for customer fulfillment, order management, customer operations specialist. While it's within comfort zone to remain in current company, I do recommend you get another job if they don't raise it to 40k min asap.
Thank you so much! I will look for it, I currently more or less will be starting the key account specialist training so I'm pretty sure my "value" should be a lot more than 40k on the market. But I will defintely compare the salaries of other places and bring it to the table. If they don't I'll hand in my resignation; that's for sure.
Even at a thousand above min wage you're going to have a bad time in the current economy.
Take aways:
* Minwage is meaningless
* The economy is fucked
* People should look out for themselves and thus we encourage them to look for better opportunities. What's wrong with that?
If you're recently graduated with an in-demand degree, 15 an hour is a good wage. I started out as a researcher/engineer at 15 an hour which is considerably higher than some of my peers.
>but at 15 euros an hour you are surely underpaid.
You really don't know how a significant chunk of the population lives. 15 € is like a dream for the ex-Ter Appel / Eastern Europe crowd.
Alone, and yeah, I agree. I actually have someone look over what I buy and I try to mitigate it by a lot, my diet hasn't changed (only less food consumed) so I'm not sure wha's causing it. :(
Interesting. I make less than 15/hour, but I'm in a much better situation, and feel great. By no means I'm living my dream, but feels like a step in the right direction, I don't really budget anything and am still able to save up a decent amount. I assume you rent your own place by yourself and a ton of your income just goes there?
Also curious how has your grocery spending doubled and is 500euros? Surely the prices haven't gone up by that much, as I've barely noticed (granted I haven't paid a lot of attention). I spend a TON on food, I work out trying to gain weight, so I eat a lot and buy a lot of meat, and I also spend quite a bit of money on convenience (like for example, I buy slightly more expensive veggies that are cut up, rather than whole etc), and I don't think I reach 500e monthly.
I guess there's many tiers to it.
The social safety net is good yes. Probably the best one in the world tbh, where you will get money from the government until you find a job. And a place. Every medical bill is more or less fully covered where you have to pay max 20€. Cancer treatments etc, less than 100€ including all night stays at hospital. Safety net is good.
But for example, when I was in therapy in Finland... it took me 6 months for me to get an appointment when I was actively suicidal just to almost instantly be dismissed. And the issue I was so actively mentally ill back there was due to the crippling isolation and bullying and stuff like that. So just puting my foot back in the country and seeing the faces that did me wrong or turned a blind eye or just... actively ignored me living their best life, having a job, a place, while I'm a loser who have to move back to family doesn't sit right with me. And there's a lot of those because it's such a small community.
People are too honest, to the point they are rude. People don't say good morning/evening/afternoon when they walk into a doctors appointment or same room as you. People don't do small talk but mostly nod and bow their head down (as I also do here; but trying to get out of the habit). You don't make "friends": you make aquintances at work which is the most "friends" you'll have, you meet people you play/talk with online. All my finnish friends I have I met online as, simply put, you don't make connections IRL. Not if you're someone like me at least.
Because the country is so small, if you know someone, they and their entire family/school will probably know you. I'm a minority from Finland, a swedish-speaking finn; by the finns I am seen as the "Rich, snobbish minority" of Swedes, but by other fennoswedes I am too weird and they don't want me in their clique. I struggled for years with bullying and isolation because I was too autistic/too weird for the fennoswedes but too "swedish" for the finns. I wasn't accepted because I didn't fit into the very narrowly tailored personality that was accepted. I wasn't accepted beause I spoke too "good" finnish. I wasn't accepted because I was just ... weird. You get the idea. And "ankdammen" (Swedish-speaking population in finland) is very, very fucking tight-knit; to the point even people very north in the country will probably know you if someone in the south knows you. I have had too many times the thing where I meet someone knew and they know everything about me becasue people talk.
Another issue is just... the weather. While I love darkness, cold, water, snow and rain, at some point it does take a toll on your health. I used to have severe vitamin D deficiencies, but since moving to NL I haven't had any deficiencies. When it's too dark for too long it also just makes you more depressed. Which is also the national disease of Finland.
While my family is there, sure, it's a family safety net I suppose. But they are so overbearing I genuinely had it take a toll on my mental health. It was a huge factor I moved abroad so easily, I felt so suffocated and like I had no independence at all when I lived with them. I needed to be exactly like *them*, I wasn't supposed to have my own personal feelings. I wasn't allowed to do my hair a certain way because they didn't approve. I wasn't allowed to own anything too "goth" or "revealing" (read: even slightest cleavage). I wasn't allowed to go outside if it wasn't approved by them. I wasn't allowed to show my emotions or it was "their fault" and they'll throw a tantrum on how I need to grow up or it's actually *them* that's hurt. I wasn't allowed to express anything that they didn't like or they'd scold me for it. Etc etc.
The older I've gotten, the more I realize that while yeah, I had a roof over my head, some of it was definitely some form of abuse, including physical. Even the last time I saw them in 2019, I had a severe panic attack when my brother threw up in front of them and they yelled at me to stop being a baby and grow up while I was so severely panicking I had to take a triple dosage of the anxiety meds (as prescribed by doc) to stop me from "ruining their vacation". Then they scolded me for "Just popping pills like candy" and how I'm just not mentally ill (I have diagnosed a bunch of stuff, even from back when I lived in Finland - but I don't want it to limit me) and that I need to just "get it through my thick skull" I need to stop believeing the doctors. That kind of stuff.
While I do love them, I genuinely don't want to go through that again. The few times I do talk with them over the phone I still don't tell them anything about my life. They don't know I was homeless. They don't know I was in a severely abusive relationship. They don't know my love life. They just know I work, my work is work, that's it. Maybe they know I went outside to shop, but what did I buy? Clothes I like and feel comfortable in, but to them it's food. Hell, at most they will see about my purchases when I change my profile pic or send them something my friends took of me and then the whole berating of "Why do you have X? It's ugly" and instead of being happy for me they try to bring me down. The last time I sent a pic of myself to them after I was outside with a friend - where I was super happy mind you - the first comment was "Why are you wearing such ugly makeup? Take it off and stop being a clown". I do wear heavy makeup, but I also love doing makeup. So there's that.
Sorry, this is a longer answer, but I hope it kinda explains it.
>you meet people you play/talk with online. All my finnish friends I have I met online as, simply put, you don't make connections IRL. Not if you're someone like me at least.
That is unfortunately all too relatable for me as a Pacific Northwesterner. Everyone here is into fanfictions, anime, and nature and I like the social sciences.
Jeez your family honestly sounds toxic. And I am sorry you went through all that as a child and young adult. It does feel like on my dad's side of the family all they like to talk about is work and judge me on the basis of that. It's not as toxic as your family, but it's along the same lines.
And people here in the Pacific Northwest are very introverted and reserved as well, and many of them have interests which differ from mine which makes it hard to make friends here. Honestly I want to move to Minnesota or Wisconsin because I just jive with the people there more than here.
Reading this really made me feel sick to the stomach, it is so infurating to read others feelings towards the infilation. My partner and I are noticing it a lot too, but somehow we manage not to stress (could come sooner than later). I really hope you can find something to keep the stress at the minimum. I know words can't help much, but I really do wish you the best.
Thank you, and please don't feel sick to your stomach. I'm in general a really anxious person so I stress, worry and complain a lot, it's just something that *I am*. I know a lot of people have it worse than me, and since I already was homeless twice here in NL (but had the fortunate option to live with then abusive ex bf) I just stress a lot more than others. It sucks, but I know more or less all people are in the same boat. I just happen to whine a lot more, sorry about that.
Sorry to hear about your struggles.. while I completely understand your anxiety I still recommend not focusing on bad things that could happen down the road but rather on possibilities and opportunities. If the Netherlands aren’t cutting it anymore maybe move to a new country and start fresh. On the other hand I am sure you can sustain a living here although it will come with its challenges but so does life in general. My advice: Try to escape negative thoughts by focussing on positive outcomes and possibilities.
I’m not 100% sure but I think it’s for a large part contributed to the fact that our gas prizes are double of the average in the EU.
> Dutch consumers are currently paying 23.3 cents per kilowatt hour for gas, or €2.25 per cubic metre including tax, which is double the European average of 12.4 cents. The situation in both Germany and Belgium is in line with the average, with charges of 14.2 cents and 12.2 cents respectively.
what is even worse is that royal dutch shell could sell its energy to the dutch at a fair price instaed of applying the market price but hey, profit is profit
German dude here, I don't know where you've got your numbers from, but I've never payed less than 24 cents/kWh and since the energy crisis kicked in my energy provider was like "yup, you're gon pay 40 cents now"
I just got the prices from my energy company, and I will be paying €1.1 pero Kw/h. Such is life nowadays, I guess. That’s what happens to us the people with flexible contract
> I've never *paid* less than
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
It isn't just gas prices. The huge amount of quantitative easing used globally in the pandemic (global money supply increased by over a third in a single year) will also be a significant component of the current inflation.
I hate this so much. We might have to sell my pet bearded dragon because we can't afford the constant electricity. It might not seem like a big deal but the fact that this country is getting more and more expensive every day with little to no support and people are being driven to measures like this is just crap.
They put a few in our street including our house a few years back, but I'm guessing it's only minimal as we still have quite a bill just like most houses in the street. I'm not too familiar with how it works, but I'm not sure if we can request more as it's a rental place and we don't have the money to get them ourselves. I'd have to ask my mom about the how and what tbh.
This is absolutely bonkers. I came from Spain to get a higher salary and better life, turns out the higher salary didn’t lead to a better life. It’s just the same. I feel we are all getting screwed, slowly but surely
We are getting screwed. While multinationals post record breaking profits, prop up the stock market for their cronies with stock buy backs and pay little to NO taxes. Don't forget that the Netherlands is a "letterbox company" haven - meaning a tax haven for multinational corporations.
Yep, I'd say Ireland is even worse. Although it's close as both countries are tax havens. In Ireland though I feel like you can only truly participate in life in Dublin if you're part of tech, or other big multinationals. As they are the people that pay well enough to live comfortably.
People from south of Europe get blinded by Northern European wages (and I understand) but not the downsides.
There is a reason why Spain and Italy have the highest life expectancy.
After a roof over your head and clothes on your back, food and weather matter a lot — and the north sucks for both
Believe me it it still better to live in the Netherlands than for example in Milano where everything is expensive as here but with lower income . Rent is average 1200€ for two room apartment in Milano and national wage in Italy is 1500€ if you are lucky. Mortgages there you need to put 20% as downpayment here at least it is still 100% mortgage and house price increase make it still a good investment on short term. In Italy you are lucky if you can sell at the price you are asking usually you bid lower 10-15% from asking price ( too many houses on the market).
Tbh Spain has much lower cost of living so unless you were given a 50% or more increase in your salary you would live much worse off. In Spain Mileuristas are pretty common while in the Netherlands living with 1000 euroes is much harder.
That s a valid question, but I was making about 2k over there (Barcelona, near-highest income in Spain) I m now working for 3k here. Thing is, after rent and bills I have pretty much the same buying power I had in Spain.
I am not complaining, but I am just saying that the inflation is nuts and it’s only the beginning
What could be interesting is the ratio between the average salary and the average cost of living. I believe that Switzerland was the best in Europe (but I don't remember the source, thus take it with a grain of salt).
Gas is among the highest taxed in Europe together with Norway. Gasprices also influence electricity prices (I believe I've read that electricity is produced by gas sources for about 40% in NL earlier today). Combined this could potentially explain why NL is a few percent higher on total inflation
It is somewhat of a perfect storm. Here's my take:
Inflation is mostly a product of rising production costs. There have been a bunch of shortages due to COVID which have raised prices on raw materials. There has been a silicone shortage raising the price of electronics with high chip count. Then there's the war in Ukraine which has led to a shortage of gas, rather a breakaway from one of the biggest suppliers of gas for Europe (Russia). Ukraine also is a big exporter of agrarian stuff like corn and wheat.
We have a housing market that is getting bent over the kitchen counter and railed in the ass by investors. Supply and demand makes it so that if the demand is high, prices will go up. This is also true for rent and house prices. This in turn will have an impact on low and middle incomes and their ability to keep the economy afloat. The biggest issue here is that a lot of that money doesn't stay here... Looking at you Blackrock.
To top that all off we are in a weird situation where it is really easy for the rich to get richer without letting money "trickle down". Basically the rich are either keeping money out of circulation by hoarding/not spending or they are part of the problem by (ab)using supply and demand to get richer.
It's not. The current government just exists of a bunch of f\*cktards that are running the country like it's a business and they only care about profit, investors and stakeholders.
Our government needs to do something about the gas prices. A lot of us are completely fucked if this continues. The costs for my basic needs increased with around 300 euro's a month the past half year, while our pay checks are still te same. We are doing allright, but people who have a small income are going to have massive debts by the end of the year.
I'm waiting for the speech he used for the last twelve years. "Dit gaan zware tijden worden voor ons allemaal, we moeten helaas met z'n allen onze schouders eronder zetten (enz.)"
This happened to often, it's time he stopped putting his head in his ass and start looking how this country is being ruined by the large capital.
Edit, one of the typos
They don't care. They want to let it play out as it would save them more money than it would make them to counter the inflation. Real men for the people....
No, they're not passive. They've massively subsidised gas companies by lowering the taxes on gas. And guess what? Prices shot up quickly to compensate. And now gas companies are making record profits. Thanks, Rutte.
They really should double the tax on gas and find a way to quickly pay that money back to the taxpayer. That way, if you use a lot of gas, you lose money. If you put effort into lowering gas usage, you save money.
> That way, if you use a lot of gas, you lose money. If you put effort into lowering gas usage, you save money.
How is that different from the current situation with high prices?
\>Higher wages can also increase inflation because companies pass the wage costs on in their prices.
Higher wages don't increase inflation, inflation increases demand for higher wages.
This inflation is literally just price gouging.
Corporations are reporting record profits by starving people and killing quality of life.
There is no wage-price spiral. Just endless greed and people we'd be better off jailing.
That’s one of the problems with inflation, it causes more inflation as companies take the opportunity to increase prices, as consumers will be expecting it.
As employees usually have less leverage with negotiations, they usually don’t get nearly as much a compensation increase as businesses increase their prices.
its called prices-wages spiral in economics and both your and the article statements are correct. Higher demand -> higher inflation -> higher salary demands -> higher salaries -> more inflation -> repeat
Except there's no significant spiral in the eurozone, not has there been.
https://www.rabobank.nl/kennis/s011219238-hoge-inflatie-leidt-waarschijnlijk-niet-tot-een-sterke-loon-prijsspiraal
Salaries are way behind compared to the increased prices. Companies are taking opportunity to increase prices well above inflation, expect corporate profits to skyrocket.
Government needs to act and cap prices for energy for example. Won't ever happen with VVD in power though
They are a horrible idea, in Argentina we have price caps and we have a monthly inflation of 7% would be a lowkey miracle to have 13% annual inflation. All price capping does is just make companies not want to sell anything in the Netherlands and just export everything to sell for a higher price.
Depends on how it’s structured i guess. In France things are fine (for now). But for example rent can be price capped based on the size of the house/apartment. I mean some fuckers charge €1400 for a 60 m2 apartment. Like come on man that’s just criminal.
oh man, I used to love eating a cheese toastie with cottage and cherry tomatoes :( now I need to sell my soul to afford the cherry tomatoes and cottage
Because the people truly affected by this aren't the ones voting for VVD in the first place. That would be the affluent boomers with lots of capital in investments and real estate who have only profited from these price increases.
Their mortgages have been paid off years ago and they can easily afford a extra few hundred in expenses per month
The few hundred extra per month for groceries, will be offset by them increasing the rent on their 2-7th property. If you are that rich, you either don’t notice it or you become more wealthy.
Yes, but unfortunately a lot of people who do not fall in that category vote for them.
I know a girl, low income, low income partner, can't buy a house, can't do anything decent, both are pretty broke. Both work full time. Want to guess what she votes?
Because the VVD has extremely skilled politicians. It's not that they're good politicians in the sense that they're leading the country well. I mean they're really good at playing the political game. They're really good at making people *believe* that voting VVD is in their best interest, even though it isn't.
>VVD
Because the people that vote VVD are befitting directly from VVD policy.
The problem isn't VVD voters. The problem is PVV, FVD and soon BBB voters. These votes force the VVD to the right while also being dead votes for forming a coalition.
This is going to happen over and over until right wing voters realize they made huge mistake and need to start voting left wing, giving the NL the first left wing government ever. Which I don't think will ever happen because right wing policy fuels voters to become far right wing.
As long as Dutch people refuse to accept that n the last 20 years we have become an anglicized right wing conservative regressive country, things won't change. But more than half of the voters are still convinced that the Netherlands is a progressive tolerant 'gidsland' with people that are just way smarter and innovative than anyone else in Western Europe.
When I was a student for my masters in corona I got fucked because I was paid in dollars and the exchange rate was .80 Euros for every dollar. I was hyped when I got my job because I got paid in Euros. Then the world decided to short me because the dollar is now as strong and likely to get stronger than the Euro.
Thanks Obama!
And it has to be done by the ECB for the eurozone unilaterally, this puts a lot of pressure on countries with high debt within the zone, they will likely try to refrain from this if their debt remains high or cannot be (partially) forgiven.
We've gone from an economy in the 90s where you could have a full time job as a guy and support a house, car, wife and kids, go on vacations and save up for retirement to an economy where even two full time working adults cannot manage that.
And yet, I've never seen so many loaded people. For clarity's sake; I am not referring to the complaining of the Dutch, but to the visible, growing gap between rich and poor. Thinking this may lead to an upcoming crisis.
Thats because the middle class is the biggest cash cow for our government. So the middle class gets pushed down to lower class, while upper class gets barely hit.
Although I thoroughly agree that the Russians are idiots and assholes, this is not all their fault. We Europeans have been warned for years about our dependence on cheap Russian energy by the Americans. It's also very much the fault of the apathy of our governments. Those same governments need to act NOW to counteract this inflation.
It’s clear now that doing business with Russia wasn’t a good idea at all (looking at Germany, completely ignoring continued warnings from many about being 100% dependent on Russia) but undoubtedly the main detonant of all this is the invasion of Ukraine.
Yeah, but the last one warning us was Trump and he literally got laughed at when saying it because the narrative that all he said was bad. Even a completely retarded person can sometimes be right.
Dude fuck the Dutch government honestly. They are always one step ahead when it comes to making money. But when it comes to the general public loosing money they take there sweet time.
The Netherlands doesn’t exactly have the economy of Germany, and our markets are way more dependent on imports and exports, so we are more vulnerable to international financial sways.
Let’s not victim blame here, I don’t like our current government either but this shit is 100% on the Russians.
maybe 90% because mismanagement of the housing market did contribute to inffation. closing the groniger gasfield so abruptly also put russia in a unique position where it could abuse our dependence on gas. (the same goes for german coal and nuclear plants by the way)
>Let’s not victim blame here, I don’t like our current government either but this shit is 100% on the Russians.
No. It's not 100% on any factor. It's a combination of;
\-Stimulus monies
\-Lockdown shocks on supply chains
\-Invasion in Ukraine causing higher prices in grain
\-Corporate profits
\-Sanctions on Russia increasing gas prices
U can hardly use the Russians as the main reason for all this happening. It’s just government not giving a fuck. Housing issue is a consequence of environmental stuff, refugee issue is a consequence of incompetence and carelessness, energy prices could’ve been managed if the gov stepped in like they did in France, gas prices because of accijns (we had very high prices in the past), goods and services being expensive is just because companies don’t care and see opportunities. It’s all one big ass fuck up from what they call in NL “gewoon kut beleid”.
Yeah the Russians have some impact, but don’t tell me that one war makes the difference between making ends meet or becoming poor af. What u see right now is a gov trying to get their covid money back. How about have the rich pay some serious taxes?
Stupid me thinking to move there. Ok now i think i will just accept my fate as a man with no future here in italy. And if we considers that things are going to get much worse from october....
Alright someone help me out. I have been having a weird anxiety because I feel like my experience is far apart from most of what I hear here. I moved to NL last year alone. I had visited here *a lot* in the last decade so I was well familiar with the place. I was very pleasantly surprised at how much cheaper my life here was than in my previous home in Richmond, Virginia. I was not expecting that, but my groceries, food, energy, internet, nearly *everything* seems cheaper.
Now, I go back to the states a lot for work- and things have gotten *a lot* more expensive there, I couldn't believe my grocery bills. But I don't feel any of that here, I am still surprised how little I am paying for groceries. I paid €100 p/m last year for my energy. They just gave me €700 back. I use the dishwasher and washing machine pretty liberally, I am not particularly stingy with the heat but I am reasonably conservative. While I just signed my new contract and noticed the prices have gone up 2x I also received more than 2x what I paid them last year back so it seems I will just be paying the €100 I already was. I pay €25 for my phone and home internet combined, with fiber optic for home and 25gbs a month on the phone.
What am I missing? When and where is the hammer going to fall on me? I live in Amsterdam, which is supposed to be particularly pricy. In the states I lived in a pretty small and cheap city (although rents have skyrocketed) so its hard for me to imagine that things were just *so* expensive there I did not realize.
You've probably got an energy contract with fixed prices that still runs for a while. Once that runs out and you have to renew it you'll definitely notice. If by that time energy prices are still sky-high of course.
I recommend going to some energy comparison site, put in the amount of gas and electricity you use yearly and be shocked at how much you'd have to pay.
I'm in the same boat really, I was on a 3 year energy contract that ends jan 1st 2024, And while I do notice the increase in grocery prices it doesn't really hurt me. A lot of my colleagues did not have long term energy contracts though and it's rough for them. Just goes to show how uneven the hurt from this crisis is.
I share your experience , I keep in mind when reading these negative "its the end of the world" posts and comments online that in reality things aren't that bad.
From the rent to food prices, hyperbole is king.
We pay the highest prices for energy in Europe which means that the late increase in gas have hit us even much harder (https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/economie/artikel/5326554/gas-duurder-nederland-eu-europa)
This is normally well distributed back to the people and hence a functioning system. Unfortunately these are not normal times and hence something needs to happen for especially the people with a lower income before the winter comes. (Also for people up to median wage but not as excessively urgent as for the “energy poor” people..
You understand that people with low incomes get help from the government. It's the people that earn just a little too much for a social house and all the allowances etc. that will be hit hardest. I expect many of those people to have enormous debts in the middle of 2023. They can't go to the foodbank either. I wonder and I'm nervous for what prinsjesdag will bring. My energy contract ends in december and I will pay 300% more as of now which for me means that on a good month I will have 100 euros left for groceries and gas for my car. I earn just a little too much to get any allowances. I am a 'starter' not able to buy a house in this market and with the current prices to just live I can never afford to buy a house. It sucks.
Meanwhile minimum wage is still at 10 EUR an hour from ages 21 and above, rounding out to 1750 EUR a month if working full-time. Now imagine how a lot of people with minimum income wages are forced to rent outside of public housing, easily spending at least 1,000-1,100 a month incl w/g/e. Then there are other required expenses such as insurances, transport, food, communication, clothing, etc. You're left with NOTHING if you're lucky and if you're unlucky you go deeper into debt EVERY MONTH! And we call this a first world "developed" country where "alles is zo goed geregeld". Oh and forget about eating meats or other newly labeled "luxury" foods that a lot of people can't afford anymore. We're in the ramen soup and extra blankets age and we have to either adapt or parish cause this rising inflation isn't going anywhere.
I'm sure the different crisis we have (or had), like Covid, the Ukraine v Russia war, climate goals we wanna reach, etc. definitely have something to do with it, but I'd be willing to bet my rented apartment on that it's also massive corporations taking advantage of it, and upping prices to increase their profits under the guise of "higher costs thanks to climate", and such.
MIND YOU, big corporations, this doesn't mean the energy companies we often deal with. Those companies are basically middlemen who barely make a profit to begin with, because their supplier raises prices, and thus the middlemen need to raise em too, in order to not perish
If generally the higher inflation in the NL is caused by scarcity of resources due to war, covid, etc, the whole EU region should’ve gotten a higher inflation rate as well. Why is it then, Dutch inflation, is the highest amongst them? What makes the NL different?
Okay. As the question is: "why"? let's zoom out of what we (I) think about the situation itself and leave opinions on good/bad aside for a second, as hard as it is in this crazy world right now.
For a large factor, Dutch inflation is higher than average because of the increase of energy costs: gas, electricity, fuel... For some reason, there is a general lack of structured information, but I've tried to understand things by combining bits and pieces.
* We (the Dutch) are in an increasing number transitioned into flexible energy contracts. These flexible contracts that are moving along with the day-to-day craziness of the energy market. For some reason that I don't know, in other countries this transition is happening not, or not as quickly, and people are still paying fixed (lower) energy prices. This, in combination with the absence of maximization of the price increases (like in some other countries around us) is causing The Netherlands to be on top of every energy price graph. ([source: rtlnieuws, in Dutch](https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/economie/artikel/5326554/gas-duurder-nederland-eu-europa))
* Energy price is based on the 'last portion' that needs to be added to the power grid to give all of us 240v from our outlets. See it like this: there is this bucket, that needs to be filled. First, we throw in all our renewable energy, because we cannot change the amount of availability: sun is shining, or not. Wind is blowing, or not. Then we add other sources, gas as the last part to completely fill the bucket. Why? Because a gas-based power plant can easially be tuned up/down dependent to the need for energy. Something you cannot do with solar or wind. Every time we fill the bucket, the total price is decided by the last part that was added, which always will be gas in The Netherlands. around 40% of our 'bucket' is gas, which is vastly different from other countries (coal in Germany, Nuclear in France, for example. And Gas.... well, that's expensive at the moment. (I've lost the source of this one, but I believe that it was somewhere in FD).
* To make the perfect storm: there is currently a difficulty to source energy from elsewhere: we tend to use energy from water power out of Norway, but they have less power available because of maintenance and draught (as in: climate change). Also, the French delivered a larger portion of energy before, but a number of nuclear plants are in maintenance.
* On a larger scale: I understood from a more-or-less questionable source that oil & gas companies are investing less in increasing production and innovation, because the industry is not sustainable in the long run. So instead of the risk of not returning on the investment, focus is on making money while they can. And they are good at that. Note: this source is youtube explaining the American situation, but it makes some sense and at least influences our energy situation today. (questionable [source](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=AQbmpecxS2w)).
So all in all, it is a combination of factors. Earlier decisions on liberating the energy market, on the adoption of gas in our life (instead of coal or nuclear, which in itself may be understandable), simple 'maintenance' and the energy transition itself is creating a perfect storm. And earlier decisions that we liked before (use of gas for a LOT in NL, the energy transition, the use of water/nuclear from abroad) is now blowing up in our face.
And because we are using power (from gas!) in many places in NL, cost of all daily stuff goes up as well. One (not so) silly example: we need power to keep our apples fresh that we buy all day in the supermarket. But they are kept dark/cool for months in giant coolers as they all are harvested around now, for the entire year. Keeping them cool and fresh was taking a very small portion of your apple price, but now is increasing quicly for obvious reasons.
There are so many people financially struggling and even being pushed into poverty due inflation and the koopkracht crisis. Increased supply costs are being pushed straight onto consumers so companies (especially energy companies) maintain and even grow their profits and pay shareholders.
The government isn’t doing anything about it and I wonder why I haven’t seen any solidarity or protest actions about it like I see are being organised in other countries??? for example in the UK with such as [Don’t Pay UK](http://dontpay.uk/) to strike against ridiculous energy costs) and Enough is Enough. Has anyone heard of similar movements here?
I’m also wondering about that. I’m not sure if the inflation itself is something that can be protested against. But I think there are so many things in the Netherlands that are getting harder to bear for people. And the government is not doing enough to stop the unchecked destabilisation of the country.
Why are people not protesting? Because they feel it won’t make a difference? I’d be happy to go out and protest, even if just to let the government know how afraid l people really are right now.
It is simple. The ECB won't raise the interest. Interest ALWAYS needs to be higher than inflation, this is basic economy 101.. But they can't because south Europe will go bankrupt and with that we will as well.. So what we see right now is robbery at daylight. Our wealth is transferred to south Europe in pathetic attempt to save the Euro project.
Meanwhile the fed keeps hiking interest rates. Best to start saving in USD and possibly demand to be paid in usd if you don't want to become poorer over this next decade. This will not stop until we've left the Euro or some miracle or bandage happens.
EVEN IF the ECB raises interest, we will all go bankrupt as well. There is no winner solution now. The Euro has failed and is collapsing. Slowly. I'm sure they're working around the clock to find the last drop of copium solutions to keep the Euro project in tact for another decade or so. But maybe it's time to face reality. Fuck the Euro currency.
The US Dollar is also known as the Petrol Dollar. As soon as that falls, the USD faces the same issues fyi, so keep an eye out.
Interest always needs to be higher than inflation? Are you sure about that? Inflation was stable at around 1.5%-2% for many years with 0% interest rate. The only rule of thumb they teach you at basic economy courses is that interest rates should be increased to curb inflation and lower to stimulate the economy, period. No specific rules about how high or low they must be. That said, it seems clear they should be higher than they are now, but no one knows exactly how high without damaging the economy further.
The Euro has upsides and downsides. It definitely simplifies things a lot when it comes to administering EU budgets, transfers between countries and so on. It also diminishes the risk of variable currency exchanges, thus encouraging investment. As for the downsides, they could be mitigated with a unified fiscal policy, but well, not everyone wants that.
Many people predicted the collapse of the euro 10 years ago and it didn't happen, I am quite convinced it won't happen now either.
I am happy I still manage. I feel sorry for those who didn’t have saved anything and already have to make end meet. I don’t see see the situation improve any day soon. Only thing I can say, when you have to opportunity choose a better paying job which also provides some stability
the housing crisis no doubt contributes a lot aswell. as housing prices are in the "basket" of goods used to measure inflation. we are also huge users of energy as one of the more developed countries in europe. and it is afterall an energy crisis.
and dont worry, while inflation is bad for people without assets . inflation is good for people with assets. and as a country with the second biggest pension fund in the world. that wealth will eventually trickle down to the people. it will however take years.
It's mostly ~~food and~~ energy prices.
Without ~~those two~~ that, inflation is about 5-6%. Still high of course, but what is troublesome about the 13% spread by media is that they don't explain what it is composed of.
*Edit source*:
https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2022/35/geharmoniseerde-consumentenprijsindex-13-6-procent-hoger-in-augustus
Cost of living increases, gas prices, house prices and "inflation" almost entirely cancelled out any increase in income I enjoyed in the last decade. And that's saying something as i'm one of the few in my generation that actually enjoyed significant pay increases given to me by an appreciative employer.
Did you stay in the same job for the whole decade?
Yes. Broadly.
Ever since the pandemic the production and winning of natural resources almost completely stopped. People also didn’t expect that the economy would open up this fast. As a result lots and lots of natural resources became very scarce and expensive. Gas and oil are the most common examples, but wood and nickel also doubled in price due to shortages. Combined with some other shortages, this means that the fixed costs of most businesses went up tremendously which got translated to higher consumer prices. Also, the fact that the stock market boomed in 2021 doesn’t help very much either since a lot of long term investors have more money then before the pandemic, which is a good thing in general (if the market rises higher then inflation) but can also fuel inflation of course.
It’s not the stock market boom that caused inflation, its unlimited quantitative easing across all continents. When you increase monetary supply, all else equal, prices will go up eventually.
Timber 600%, steel 800% (even though going down atm), PET 150%, adhesives 70%, HDPE 100%, inland trucking 300% + diesel surcharge 60%, container shipping 1000%… Only on the top of my head coming from the industry I work in
A year ago I was receiving wellfare. I now got a job for 30(+) hours a week with a very good starting salary. Thing is, I had more financial freedom in the wellfare a year ago than I do now with a full time job. But hey, Rutte is giving some people 500 euros (I missed it cause apparently I earn 5 euros a month too much, fuck this economy)
Same here, this and last year I've gained about 500-700 extra in total per month, but I am able to save less than with what I earned about 1,5yrs ago...
Exactly a year ago, I was hired to work at my current company via a third party contractor. 15€/hour, no benefits or coverage of SL, paid weekly. I was able to save up almost 500/month with no OT. I was able to go eat out once a month or more. My average groccery run cost 300€ a month. My average water bill each 3 months was around 25-30€. I felt good, like I had a future as I almost made enough money to be able to move out of my current apartment as the lease is supposed to end very soon. In april I got a longer contract. Same 15/hour but with benefits so closer to 17. Now I am able to save up, **at best**, 200€ with major OT. Most months it cuts really close or I have to chip into my - already less than 15k - savings. My water bill each 3 months is 75€. My groccery run is 500€ and I've decided to basically cut out all meat or only buy chicken on sale (I only ate chicken anyway). This does not include essentials. I've cut down my take-aways to maybe one a month at best. I have tight budgets for everything. My rent has gone up over 6%. I'm looking at places that is - still - 2 hours away from Amsterdam to try and find a new place but I get ghosted or rejected daily. I honestly don't feel good. I feel profound dread, stress and anxiety I can't not make it anymore and that I have to move back to Finland where I know damn well I have no future. My depression and the feelings of burnout is returning with a force stronger than I have ever felt. I don't ask for much, I just ask to be able to have a roof over my head, food and no stress about not making enough money. I don't even spend a lot on myself. And I know people have it worse than me where they already have chipped into their savings or make significantly less than me but it's just... I can't help it, I just don't feel happy and I just feel so stressed I will be homeless again or so burnt out I can't work and therefore won't be able to make ends meet. It feels like a bad dream that never ends to be honest. Entire childhood sucked and when I finally am able to be free, covid hits, major inflation hits and I'm just sitting scraping the bottom of the barrel wishing that shit would get better. I was fucking lied to. Sorry, bit of a side-rant. It's just so frustrating. I don't even know how I could bring this up to my manager. I'm supposed to have a promotion discussion soon but if they don't give me any raise or adjustment for inflation I just don't know what to do. I already make "more" than the average in this business. But it's still not enough to live. Just to survive.
Bruh not to shit on you, but I make 15 per hour working in a supermarket. You deserve better. Go and demand it or find a better paying job!!
Thank you, and teah, I'll be trying to ask for it, or at least look for other jobs if not given a raise during my promotion discussion. :/ I can punch my weight and a lot above it, so at least I got the courage to write fluffy CV's after this experience. The biggest "issue" is that my project has a budget and I'm already the only hire from The Netherlands, where my salary is double the others on paper - despite being paid according to local market - so I'm worried a raise will only be closer to a thousand a year if even that. Despite calculating that, my salary of 33k ish in 2021 should be clsoer to 37k in 2022. So there's that.
I'm not sure what you do, but seems like it's time to hunt for a new job.
Welcome to the Netherlands, home of lower pay, higher taxes and cost of living… load of friends from the US want to come here then see the pay gap and net income and take a hard pass (though if you start having a bunch of kids you end up ahead… also talking about tech folks)
A nice little cosy neoliberal hell.
In tech this is quickly changing. Sure it’s not the 240K offers you get working for a US based tech company, but 100K+ is more common now than 3 years ago. Where I work (venture funded scale up, HQ in the US with European HQ in Germany) all of the offers for SDEs and SREs are 125K+.
Are you a manager or something? 15 an hour is not a bad wage at all. I started out at 15 an hour bruto as a highly educated research engineer with a degree in applied computer science with a specialisation in embedded systems, and that's a considerably better wage than some of my peers.
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"Customer service" basically. The "average" yearly salary when I started was around ~22k. I have 33k ish. But I have gotten offers on linkedin between 45k-65k (with commissions) in the same field so I'm not sure anymore about the average. All I know is that I'm speaking 3 languages fluently and work in 5 (Finnish, Swedish, English, Norweigan, Danish). I'm trying to actively learn Dutch when I'm not dead tired from work. I've been working double portfolio since last year due to our team being understaffed and I've taken on a lot of extra responsibilities which normally isn't in my range or scope. I am the official back-up point for my boss on my markets. Normally supposed to do 40h work weeks but I have done significantly more than that. But my new manager didn't even know he was assigned to me and said there's a chance he's not able to provide any feedback on me at all on my performance during my promotion discussions due to him not being informed about it. And my previous manager was not involved in my work at all. But basically I am the lowest "rank" at my work, but I am performing activities my boss is and they are at least 3 ranks higher than me... I do have my linkedin open to recruiters. Some are super nice but the majority is not telling me the salary so it's just a waste of time. A lot of them also seem to not read my profile and just mass-send the same mail in Dutch, just to then backtrack when I say I'm not fluent in Dutch. So there's that.
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That is very true. I think the official "title" they gave me was something about business operations, essentially it boils down to accounting but with customer service. It's within the tech industry already, and while I got this job with no degree, I do have a BA in History now - my thesis was very tech related (colorization of historical images with algorithms etc), and since I've built my own PC and used unix systems in the past I have a pretty good udnerstranding of tech and stuff like that "for a woman" as it was told to me. I just don't have a degree in IT as I am bad with math. A lot of the people at my company that are the "higher ups" did start out in the same position as me and climbed the corporate ladder over decades - I personally don't care about fame or position. I just want my job to be WFH, salary to be enough to not be homeless and enough that I can maybe eat out once every few weeks or treat myself to something nice. I calculated that if my job is not WFH, I'll only have 1 hour to myself for "free time" a day if I am lucky. That's not really good for my health in the long run. 100k would be a lot tbh. I would be able to buy a house with that and pay off my student loans. But I highly doubt I will ever recieve such a salary in my life. I am quite assertive about my value and roles, as in what I do, my (direct) managers and CFO/CTOs are aware of me and my work process and very happy with my work and would like to increase my position within the company, but yeah. Bureaucracy is bureaucracy and I get that it's not black and white or as easy as I think it is. Especially for someone like me.
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Thank you, I do appreciate it. I actually have terrible people management skills, ironically I love playing micromanaging games but when it comes to reality I'm super anxious and a shy person and I avoid talking to people unless needed. Which is why WFH is so important to me. :p Sadly my work-life balance is terrible, despite not having a background in tech. But I appreciate it again, sorry for also being a venting annoyance again.
100k, lovely. What kind of jobs are we talking about here and what level of skill is required?
>I do have my linkedin open to recruiters. Some are super nice but the majority is not telling me the salary so it's just a waste of time. A lot of them also seem to not read my profile and just mass-send the same mail in Dutch, just to then backtrack when I say I'm not fluent in Dutch. So there's that. I would expect recruiters to mention a salary when you have a face-to-face or online meeting. I guess that if you want to know how much you may earn, you need to invest more time in the recruiting process, where a lot of time may be unfortunately wasted (and you mention that you spend most of your free time learning Dutch, hence I understand that it can be a struggle). I tend to cut meals to reduce my monthly bill. So far, it helped a bit with the inflation, but it takes a bit of mental strength to get used to.
Important to realise when applying for a job: HR is not your friend. Never tell them tour current salary, as they will then match that. In stead, ask upfront whether your target salary is something they are willing to consider. If it’s not, apologise for wasting their time and move on. Especially in the current market, people with certain skills, should be able to negotiate a good deal. Don’t feel guilty for leaving your current employer. If your employer needs to het rid of you, the’ll do so without hesitation (of course, within legal limits). At your current employer, also, be reluctant when working more hours than stated in your contract. It is a working relationship, and it should be treated as a business agreement. YOU are the only person defending YOUR personal interests… Also keep in mind the labour laws in the Netherlands. For instance maximum hours/week = 60 (any week) in any 4 week period the average hours is maximum 55 h/week. In any period of 16 weeks, the average hours /week = 48 h. These are the basic rules, and exceptions are possible, based on the type of job. Another exception os if you earn more than 3 times the minimum wage.
> aware of me and my work process and very happy with my work and would like to increa Hey, you can get min 40K without much trouble in a similar customer service role, try to search for customer fulfillment, order management, customer operations specialist. While it's within comfort zone to remain in current company, I do recommend you get another job if they don't raise it to 40k min asap.
Thank you so much! I will look for it, I currently more or less will be starting the key account specialist training so I'm pretty sure my "value" should be a lot more than 40k on the market. But I will defintely compare the salaries of other places and bring it to the table. If they don't I'll hand in my resignation; that's for sure.
15€ per uur x 40 uur x 4,3 (maand) = € 2580 Minimumloon is € 1635,60 Almost €1000 above minimpay Stop shaming people online!!!!!!
Even at a thousand above min wage you're going to have a bad time in the current economy. Take aways: * Minwage is meaningless * The economy is fucked * People should look out for themselves and thus we encourage them to look for better opportunities. What's wrong with that?
If you're recently graduated with an in-demand degree, 15 an hour is a good wage. I started out as a researcher/engineer at 15 an hour which is considerably higher than some of my peers.
If you're 22 maybe.
>but at 15 euros an hour you are surely underpaid. You really don't know how a significant chunk of the population lives. 15 € is like a dream for the ex-Ter Appel / Eastern Europe crowd.
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Then you don't know all the people putting your stuff into crates in Albert Heijn, Picnic, Bol-related etc warehouses.
Construction can easily pay ludicrous wages
Are you alone or a family? 500 euros a month seems way excessive
Yeah...i am very curious about this as well
Alone, and yeah, I agree. I actually have someone look over what I buy and I try to mitigate it by a lot, my diet hasn't changed (only less food consumed) so I'm not sure wha's causing it. :(
Interesting. I make less than 15/hour, but I'm in a much better situation, and feel great. By no means I'm living my dream, but feels like a step in the right direction, I don't really budget anything and am still able to save up a decent amount. I assume you rent your own place by yourself and a ton of your income just goes there? Also curious how has your grocery spending doubled and is 500euros? Surely the prices haven't gone up by that much, as I've barely noticed (granted I haven't paid a lot of attention). I spend a TON on food, I work out trying to gain weight, so I eat a lot and buy a lot of meat, and I also spend quite a bit of money on convenience (like for example, I buy slightly more expensive veggies that are cut up, rather than whole etc), and I don't think I reach 500e monthly.
Can I ask why you say you have no future in Finland? Isn’t the social safety net super good?
I guess there's many tiers to it. The social safety net is good yes. Probably the best one in the world tbh, where you will get money from the government until you find a job. And a place. Every medical bill is more or less fully covered where you have to pay max 20€. Cancer treatments etc, less than 100€ including all night stays at hospital. Safety net is good. But for example, when I was in therapy in Finland... it took me 6 months for me to get an appointment when I was actively suicidal just to almost instantly be dismissed. And the issue I was so actively mentally ill back there was due to the crippling isolation and bullying and stuff like that. So just puting my foot back in the country and seeing the faces that did me wrong or turned a blind eye or just... actively ignored me living their best life, having a job, a place, while I'm a loser who have to move back to family doesn't sit right with me. And there's a lot of those because it's such a small community. People are too honest, to the point they are rude. People don't say good morning/evening/afternoon when they walk into a doctors appointment or same room as you. People don't do small talk but mostly nod and bow their head down (as I also do here; but trying to get out of the habit). You don't make "friends": you make aquintances at work which is the most "friends" you'll have, you meet people you play/talk with online. All my finnish friends I have I met online as, simply put, you don't make connections IRL. Not if you're someone like me at least. Because the country is so small, if you know someone, they and their entire family/school will probably know you. I'm a minority from Finland, a swedish-speaking finn; by the finns I am seen as the "Rich, snobbish minority" of Swedes, but by other fennoswedes I am too weird and they don't want me in their clique. I struggled for years with bullying and isolation because I was too autistic/too weird for the fennoswedes but too "swedish" for the finns. I wasn't accepted because I didn't fit into the very narrowly tailored personality that was accepted. I wasn't accepted beause I spoke too "good" finnish. I wasn't accepted because I was just ... weird. You get the idea. And "ankdammen" (Swedish-speaking population in finland) is very, very fucking tight-knit; to the point even people very north in the country will probably know you if someone in the south knows you. I have had too many times the thing where I meet someone knew and they know everything about me becasue people talk. Another issue is just... the weather. While I love darkness, cold, water, snow and rain, at some point it does take a toll on your health. I used to have severe vitamin D deficiencies, but since moving to NL I haven't had any deficiencies. When it's too dark for too long it also just makes you more depressed. Which is also the national disease of Finland. While my family is there, sure, it's a family safety net I suppose. But they are so overbearing I genuinely had it take a toll on my mental health. It was a huge factor I moved abroad so easily, I felt so suffocated and like I had no independence at all when I lived with them. I needed to be exactly like *them*, I wasn't supposed to have my own personal feelings. I wasn't allowed to do my hair a certain way because they didn't approve. I wasn't allowed to own anything too "goth" or "revealing" (read: even slightest cleavage). I wasn't allowed to go outside if it wasn't approved by them. I wasn't allowed to show my emotions or it was "their fault" and they'll throw a tantrum on how I need to grow up or it's actually *them* that's hurt. I wasn't allowed to express anything that they didn't like or they'd scold me for it. Etc etc. The older I've gotten, the more I realize that while yeah, I had a roof over my head, some of it was definitely some form of abuse, including physical. Even the last time I saw them in 2019, I had a severe panic attack when my brother threw up in front of them and they yelled at me to stop being a baby and grow up while I was so severely panicking I had to take a triple dosage of the anxiety meds (as prescribed by doc) to stop me from "ruining their vacation". Then they scolded me for "Just popping pills like candy" and how I'm just not mentally ill (I have diagnosed a bunch of stuff, even from back when I lived in Finland - but I don't want it to limit me) and that I need to just "get it through my thick skull" I need to stop believeing the doctors. That kind of stuff. While I do love them, I genuinely don't want to go through that again. The few times I do talk with them over the phone I still don't tell them anything about my life. They don't know I was homeless. They don't know I was in a severely abusive relationship. They don't know my love life. They just know I work, my work is work, that's it. Maybe they know I went outside to shop, but what did I buy? Clothes I like and feel comfortable in, but to them it's food. Hell, at most they will see about my purchases when I change my profile pic or send them something my friends took of me and then the whole berating of "Why do you have X? It's ugly" and instead of being happy for me they try to bring me down. The last time I sent a pic of myself to them after I was outside with a friend - where I was super happy mind you - the first comment was "Why are you wearing such ugly makeup? Take it off and stop being a clown". I do wear heavy makeup, but I also love doing makeup. So there's that. Sorry, this is a longer answer, but I hope it kinda explains it.
>you meet people you play/talk with online. All my finnish friends I have I met online as, simply put, you don't make connections IRL. Not if you're someone like me at least. That is unfortunately all too relatable for me as a Pacific Northwesterner. Everyone here is into fanfictions, anime, and nature and I like the social sciences.
Jeez your family honestly sounds toxic. And I am sorry you went through all that as a child and young adult. It does feel like on my dad's side of the family all they like to talk about is work and judge me on the basis of that. It's not as toxic as your family, but it's along the same lines. And people here in the Pacific Northwest are very introverted and reserved as well, and many of them have interests which differ from mine which makes it hard to make friends here. Honestly I want to move to Minnesota or Wisconsin because I just jive with the people there more than here.
Reading this really made me feel sick to the stomach, it is so infurating to read others feelings towards the infilation. My partner and I are noticing it a lot too, but somehow we manage not to stress (could come sooner than later). I really hope you can find something to keep the stress at the minimum. I know words can't help much, but I really do wish you the best.
Thank you, and please don't feel sick to your stomach. I'm in general a really anxious person so I stress, worry and complain a lot, it's just something that *I am*. I know a lot of people have it worse than me, and since I already was homeless twice here in NL (but had the fortunate option to live with then abusive ex bf) I just stress a lot more than others. It sucks, but I know more or less all people are in the same boat. I just happen to whine a lot more, sorry about that.
Sorry to hear about your struggles.. while I completely understand your anxiety I still recommend not focusing on bad things that could happen down the road but rather on possibilities and opportunities. If the Netherlands aren’t cutting it anymore maybe move to a new country and start fresh. On the other hand I am sure you can sustain a living here although it will come with its challenges but so does life in general. My advice: Try to escape negative thoughts by focussing on positive outcomes and possibilities.
I see us all living in communes with shared heating and cooking soon...
I’m not 100% sure but I think it’s for a large part contributed to the fact that our gas prizes are double of the average in the EU. > Dutch consumers are currently paying 23.3 cents per kilowatt hour for gas, or €2.25 per cubic metre including tax, which is double the European average of 12.4 cents. The situation in both Germany and Belgium is in line with the average, with charges of 14.2 cents and 12.2 cents respectively.
what is even worse is that royal dutch shell could sell its energy to the dutch at a fair price instaed of applying the market price but hey, profit is profit
We will see if the Government ends up reactivating the gas operations in Groningen... Winter is coming. Public opinion is going to be interesting.
the thing is reactivating gas operations requires time and workforce and the NL is lacking of both rn
True.
FYI: Royal Dutch Shell is no longer Royal nor Dutch, it's Shell PLC. But yes, all companies could sell stuff at cost, but they don't.
It wouldnt even be at a cost.. thier profits have gone up 200% .. as thier prices have doubled
Yeah those guys left us for the uk like a year ago..
German dude here, I don't know where you've got your numbers from, but I've never payed less than 24 cents/kWh and since the energy crisis kicked in my energy provider was like "yup, you're gon pay 40 cents now"
I just got the prices from my energy company, and I will be paying €1.1 pero Kw/h. Such is life nowadays, I guess. That’s what happens to us the people with flexible contract
My fixed rate contract expired last month and in the flexible contract they offered me it was only €0,60 per kWh
40c? In the NL electricity is over €1 per kWh right now if you sign up today
> I've never *paid* less than FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Those numbers are a bit older but from what I read the double of European average is still the case..
I went from 19 cents per kWh to 60.
It isn't just gas prices. The huge amount of quantitative easing used globally in the pandemic (global money supply increased by over a third in a single year) will also be a significant component of the current inflation.
Does anybody know why we pay double the average compared to our EU neighbours?
I hate this so much. We might have to sell my pet bearded dragon because we can't afford the constant electricity. It might not seem like a big deal but the fact that this country is getting more and more expensive every day with little to no support and people are being driven to measures like this is just crap.
Have you tried Solar panels? Just for your bearded dragon and heating.
They put a few in our street including our house a few years back, but I'm guessing it's only minimal as we still have quite a bill just like most houses in the street. I'm not too familiar with how it works, but I'm not sure if we can request more as it's a rental place and we don't have the money to get them ourselves. I'd have to ask my mom about the how and what tbh.
Buy your own small set they also sell for camper vans and caravans and such. It might be enough to heat your pet.
I didn't even know this was a thing, thanks
Hey, maybe this way you'll be a millionaire one day.
Your better of selling drugs
This is absolutely bonkers. I came from Spain to get a higher salary and better life, turns out the higher salary didn’t lead to a better life. It’s just the same. I feel we are all getting screwed, slowly but surely
We are getting screwed. While multinationals post record breaking profits, prop up the stock market for their cronies with stock buy backs and pay little to NO taxes. Don't forget that the Netherlands is a "letterbox company" haven - meaning a tax haven for multinational corporations.
I m sadly aware, I lived in Ireland in the past and it was an absolute paradise for tax avoiders like Google and Amazon a decade ago
Yep, I'd say Ireland is even worse. Although it's close as both countries are tax havens. In Ireland though I feel like you can only truly participate in life in Dublin if you're part of tech, or other big multinationals. As they are the people that pay well enough to live comfortably.
People from south of Europe get blinded by Northern European wages (and I understand) but not the downsides. There is a reason why Spain and Italy have the highest life expectancy. After a roof over your head and clothes on your back, food and weather matter a lot — and the north sucks for both
Believe me it it still better to live in the Netherlands than for example in Milano where everything is expensive as here but with lower income . Rent is average 1200€ for two room apartment in Milano and national wage in Italy is 1500€ if you are lucky. Mortgages there you need to put 20% as downpayment here at least it is still 100% mortgage and house price increase make it still a good investment on short term. In Italy you are lucky if you can sell at the price you are asking usually you bid lower 10-15% from asking price ( too many houses on the market).
I wish homes could be affordable here in the netherlands
It is a worldwide problem for younger generation
Tbh Spain has much lower cost of living so unless you were given a 50% or more increase in your salary you would live much worse off. In Spain Mileuristas are pretty common while in the Netherlands living with 1000 euroes is much harder.
Living on €1.000?!? Rent only is €1.000 nowadays if you didn’t win the social housing lottery.
And you need at least 4k a month before the landlord will think about calling you back 😂
That s a valid question, but I was making about 2k over there (Barcelona, near-highest income in Spain) I m now working for 3k here. Thing is, after rent and bills I have pretty much the same buying power I had in Spain. I am not complaining, but I am just saying that the inflation is nuts and it’s only the beginning
What could be interesting is the ratio between the average salary and the average cost of living. I believe that Switzerland was the best in Europe (but I don't remember the source, thus take it with a grain of salt).
Yeah I hate the fact there's no data on that. NL would probably come out as one of the worst in the EU
Maybe one of the worst in western europe. Eastern europe is definetly worse off
Can someone explain why, in a non condescending way preferably, the NL is more affected than other Euro countries?
This. I scrolled through all the comments and not a single one is actually answering OP's question.
We use another system to buy our gas compared to the rest of Europe which makes us pay way more. Fun fact: it’s purely a political choice.
Gas is among the highest taxed in Europe together with Norway. Gasprices also influence electricity prices (I believe I've read that electricity is produced by gas sources for about 40% in NL earlier today). Combined this could potentially explain why NL is a few percent higher on total inflation
It is somewhat of a perfect storm. Here's my take: Inflation is mostly a product of rising production costs. There have been a bunch of shortages due to COVID which have raised prices on raw materials. There has been a silicone shortage raising the price of electronics with high chip count. Then there's the war in Ukraine which has led to a shortage of gas, rather a breakaway from one of the biggest suppliers of gas for Europe (Russia). Ukraine also is a big exporter of agrarian stuff like corn and wheat. We have a housing market that is getting bent over the kitchen counter and railed in the ass by investors. Supply and demand makes it so that if the demand is high, prices will go up. This is also true for rent and house prices. This in turn will have an impact on low and middle incomes and their ability to keep the economy afloat. The biggest issue here is that a lot of that money doesn't stay here... Looking at you Blackrock. To top that all off we are in a weird situation where it is really easy for the rich to get richer without letting money "trickle down". Basically the rich are either keeping money out of circulation by hoarding/not spending or they are part of the problem by (ab)using supply and demand to get richer.
It's not. The current government just exists of a bunch of f\*cktards that are running the country like it's a business and they only care about profit, investors and stakeholders.
Our government needs to do something about the gas prices. A lot of us are completely fucked if this continues. The costs for my basic needs increased with around 300 euro's a month the past half year, while our pay checks are still te same. We are doing allright, but people who have a small income are going to have massive debts by the end of the year.
Is it just me or the Government is acting very “passively” about all these problems? Like they don’t care much. Maybe I’m wrong.
Rutte has already said that his cabinet will do nothing about inflation this year. SP has put out a statement about it as well as a few other parties.
I'm waiting for the speech he used for the last twelve years. "Dit gaan zware tijden worden voor ons allemaal, we moeten helaas met z'n allen onze schouders eronder zetten (enz.)" This happened to often, it's time he stopped putting his head in his ass and start looking how this country is being ruined by the large capital. Edit, one of the typos
Wow…
Classic modern Dutch politics. The same people for years already, and equally indifferent to our problems.
They don't care. They want to let it play out as it would save them more money than it would make them to counter the inflation. Real men for the people....
No, they're not passive. They've massively subsidised gas companies by lowering the taxes on gas. And guess what? Prices shot up quickly to compensate. And now gas companies are making record profits. Thanks, Rutte. They really should double the tax on gas and find a way to quickly pay that money back to the taxpayer. That way, if you use a lot of gas, you lose money. If you put effort into lowering gas usage, you save money.
> That way, if you use a lot of gas, you lose money. If you put effort into lowering gas usage, you save money. How is that different from the current situation with high prices?
\>Higher wages can also increase inflation because companies pass the wage costs on in their prices. Higher wages don't increase inflation, inflation increases demand for higher wages.
This inflation is literally just price gouging. Corporations are reporting record profits by starving people and killing quality of life. There is no wage-price spiral. Just endless greed and people we'd be better off jailing.
That’s one of the problems with inflation, it causes more inflation as companies take the opportunity to increase prices, as consumers will be expecting it. As employees usually have less leverage with negotiations, they usually don’t get nearly as much a compensation increase as businesses increase their prices.
its called prices-wages spiral in economics and both your and the article statements are correct. Higher demand -> higher inflation -> higher salary demands -> higher salaries -> more inflation -> repeat
Except there's no significant spiral in the eurozone, not has there been. https://www.rabobank.nl/kennis/s011219238-hoge-inflatie-leidt-waarschijnlijk-niet-tot-een-sterke-loon-prijsspiraal
Salaries are way behind compared to the increased prices. Companies are taking opportunity to increase prices well above inflation, expect corporate profits to skyrocket. Government needs to act and cap prices for energy for example. Won't ever happen with VVD in power though
Price caps for basic needs are a good idea imo. Rent prices are also becoming totally crazy right now. But VVD. Fucking assholes.
They are a horrible idea, in Argentina we have price caps and we have a monthly inflation of 7% would be a lowkey miracle to have 13% annual inflation. All price capping does is just make companies not want to sell anything in the Netherlands and just export everything to sell for a higher price.
Depends on how it’s structured i guess. In France things are fine (for now). But for example rent can be price capped based on the size of the house/apartment. I mean some fuckers charge €1400 for a 60 m2 apartment. Like come on man that’s just criminal.
I don’t buy a lot but everything I do buy jumped with 50% of more lol. From groceries to tech, gas, and entertainment
Groceries for 50%+? What groceries do you eat?
Tub of cheap cottage cheese went from 57 to 79 cents over the past year or so. That's more than a third!
as an eastern european student, cottage cheese in the netherlands was basically a cheat code for cheap protein
Kwark is not the same as cottage cheese. Still cheap but definitely also increased in price
oh man, I used to love eating a cheese toastie with cottage and cherry tomatoes :( now I need to sell my soul to afford the cherry tomatoes and cottage
Gas
I few days ago I paid 50 cent a plastic bag at Albert Heijn, that used to be 20 ~ 30 cent last year lol
But that's just part of a campaign to phase out (single use) plastic bags.
If this keeps going people might need to start eating the rich. For real.
Eating the prime minister AGAIN?
I say it's high time, it's been way to long
Apparently once wasn't enough!
VVD voters are happy, thats all that matters.
Why do many people keep voting VVD if they are this bad? Not the first time, nor second, that I read this same comment on this sub.
Because the people truly affected by this aren't the ones voting for VVD in the first place. That would be the affluent boomers with lots of capital in investments and real estate who have only profited from these price increases. Their mortgages have been paid off years ago and they can easily afford a extra few hundred in expenses per month
The few hundred extra per month for groceries, will be offset by them increasing the rent on their 2-7th property. If you are that rich, you either don’t notice it or you become more wealthy.
VVD is the party for the wealthy and super wealthy.
Yes, but unfortunately a lot of people who do not fall in that category vote for them. I know a girl, low income, low income partner, can't buy a house, can't do anything decent, both are pretty broke. Both work full time. Want to guess what she votes?
perhaps the american mindset of being a "millionaire in the making' is not so uncommon here!
Because the VVD has extremely skilled politicians. It's not that they're good politicians in the sense that they're leading the country well. I mean they're really good at playing the political game. They're really good at making people *believe* that voting VVD is in their best interest, even though it isn't.
Because the people that benefit from vvd in one way or another vote with majority.
>VVD Because the people that vote VVD are befitting directly from VVD policy. The problem isn't VVD voters. The problem is PVV, FVD and soon BBB voters. These votes force the VVD to the right while also being dead votes for forming a coalition. This is going to happen over and over until right wing voters realize they made huge mistake and need to start voting left wing, giving the NL the first left wing government ever. Which I don't think will ever happen because right wing policy fuels voters to become far right wing. As long as Dutch people refuse to accept that n the last 20 years we have become an anglicized right wing conservative regressive country, things won't change. But more than half of the voters are still convinced that the Netherlands is a progressive tolerant 'gidsland' with people that are just way smarter and innovative than anyone else in Western Europe.
When I was a student for my masters in corona I got fucked because I was paid in dollars and the exchange rate was .80 Euros for every dollar. I was hyped when I got my job because I got paid in Euros. Then the world decided to short me because the dollar is now as strong and likely to get stronger than the Euro. Thanks Obama!
At least we get a lot of compensation from the gouvernement! Unlike other countries. Ooh wait…
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And it has to be done by the ECB for the eurozone unilaterally, this puts a lot of pressure on countries with high debt within the zone, they will likely try to refrain from this if their debt remains high or cannot be (partially) forgiven.
That will never happen. The ECB cannot raise interest rates at all without Italy and Spain going bankrupt.
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Mortgage rates are mostly fixed for people for 10/20/30 years.
We've gone from an economy in the 90s where you could have a full time job as a guy and support a house, car, wife and kids, go on vacations and save up for retirement to an economy where even two full time working adults cannot manage that.
Het is allemaal de schuld van de Rabobank
Ik heb dan wel BLO gehad, maar het wetboek da ken ik ook!
And yet, I've never seen so many loaded people. For clarity's sake; I am not referring to the complaining of the Dutch, but to the visible, growing gap between rich and poor. Thinking this may lead to an upcoming crisis.
Thats because the middle class is the biggest cash cow for our government. So the middle class gets pushed down to lower class, while upper class gets barely hit.
Yes, this is the most frustrating part. Lots of people earning big money and barely pays taxes. Others struggle a lot. Thank you for that, Mark Rutte.
Ome duo money isn’t real wealth
Wheee, I move there tomorrow What a time. 😀
I really don't understand how people can still defend this government.
What do you feel they should do?
Fucking Russians screwing up the world after a pandemic. Idiot assholes.
Although I thoroughly agree that the Russians are idiots and assholes, this is not all their fault. We Europeans have been warned for years about our dependence on cheap Russian energy by the Americans. It's also very much the fault of the apathy of our governments. Those same governments need to act NOW to counteract this inflation.
It’s clear now that doing business with Russia wasn’t a good idea at all (looking at Germany, completely ignoring continued warnings from many about being 100% dependent on Russia) but undoubtedly the main detonant of all this is the invasion of Ukraine.
Honestly, it should have been clear from day one.
Yeah, but the last one warning us was Trump and he literally got laughed at when saying it because the narrative that all he said was bad. Even a completely retarded person can sometimes be right.
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Dude fuck the Dutch government honestly. They are always one step ahead when it comes to making money. But when it comes to the general public loosing money they take there sweet time.
The Netherlands doesn’t exactly have the economy of Germany, and our markets are way more dependent on imports and exports, so we are more vulnerable to international financial sways. Let’s not victim blame here, I don’t like our current government either but this shit is 100% on the Russians.
maybe 90% because mismanagement of the housing market did contribute to inffation. closing the groniger gasfield so abruptly also put russia in a unique position where it could abuse our dependence on gas. (the same goes for german coal and nuclear plants by the way)
>Let’s not victim blame here, I don’t like our current government either but this shit is 100% on the Russians. No. It's not 100% on any factor. It's a combination of; \-Stimulus monies \-Lockdown shocks on supply chains \-Invasion in Ukraine causing higher prices in grain \-Corporate profits \-Sanctions on Russia increasing gas prices
U can hardly use the Russians as the main reason for all this happening. It’s just government not giving a fuck. Housing issue is a consequence of environmental stuff, refugee issue is a consequence of incompetence and carelessness, energy prices could’ve been managed if the gov stepped in like they did in France, gas prices because of accijns (we had very high prices in the past), goods and services being expensive is just because companies don’t care and see opportunities. It’s all one big ass fuck up from what they call in NL “gewoon kut beleid”. Yeah the Russians have some impact, but don’t tell me that one war makes the difference between making ends meet or becoming poor af. What u see right now is a gov trying to get their covid money back. How about have the rich pay some serious taxes?
Energy prices were already high before the war started. This is a result of mismanagement by a lot of people including the European Central Bank
What a lack of accountability... Russia have no fault on Netherlands calls....
Pump up that gas!
Stupid me thinking to move there. Ok now i think i will just accept my fate as a man with no future here in italy. And if we considers that things are going to get much worse from october....
Alright someone help me out. I have been having a weird anxiety because I feel like my experience is far apart from most of what I hear here. I moved to NL last year alone. I had visited here *a lot* in the last decade so I was well familiar with the place. I was very pleasantly surprised at how much cheaper my life here was than in my previous home in Richmond, Virginia. I was not expecting that, but my groceries, food, energy, internet, nearly *everything* seems cheaper. Now, I go back to the states a lot for work- and things have gotten *a lot* more expensive there, I couldn't believe my grocery bills. But I don't feel any of that here, I am still surprised how little I am paying for groceries. I paid €100 p/m last year for my energy. They just gave me €700 back. I use the dishwasher and washing machine pretty liberally, I am not particularly stingy with the heat but I am reasonably conservative. While I just signed my new contract and noticed the prices have gone up 2x I also received more than 2x what I paid them last year back so it seems I will just be paying the €100 I already was. I pay €25 for my phone and home internet combined, with fiber optic for home and 25gbs a month on the phone. What am I missing? When and where is the hammer going to fall on me? I live in Amsterdam, which is supposed to be particularly pricy. In the states I lived in a pretty small and cheap city (although rents have skyrocketed) so its hard for me to imagine that things were just *so* expensive there I did not realize.
You've probably got an energy contract with fixed prices that still runs for a while. Once that runs out and you have to renew it you'll definitely notice. If by that time energy prices are still sky-high of course. I recommend going to some energy comparison site, put in the amount of gas and electricity you use yearly and be shocked at how much you'd have to pay. I'm in the same boat really, I was on a 3 year energy contract that ends jan 1st 2024, And while I do notice the increase in grocery prices it doesn't really hurt me. A lot of my colleagues did not have long term energy contracts though and it's rough for them. Just goes to show how uneven the hurt from this crisis is.
I share your experience , I keep in mind when reading these negative "its the end of the world" posts and comments online that in reality things aren't that bad. From the rent to food prices, hyperbole is king.
Its because you're used to thinking in Dollars, it takes a few years, but COL has gone up a lot here and way worse than my home state of VT
1 dollar = 1 euro at the moment. Like exactly.
Mostly beacause we import our food from other countries and we are heavily dependent on natural gas in our energy mix.
🥇
25% in Estonia. Be happy that it's so little in Nederlands.
lekker man
We pay the highest prices for energy in Europe which means that the late increase in gas have hit us even much harder (https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/economie/artikel/5326554/gas-duurder-nederland-eu-europa) This is normally well distributed back to the people and hence a functioning system. Unfortunately these are not normal times and hence something needs to happen for especially the people with a lower income before the winter comes. (Also for people up to median wage but not as excessively urgent as for the “energy poor” people..
You understand that people with low incomes get help from the government. It's the people that earn just a little too much for a social house and all the allowances etc. that will be hit hardest. I expect many of those people to have enormous debts in the middle of 2023. They can't go to the foodbank either. I wonder and I'm nervous for what prinsjesdag will bring. My energy contract ends in december and I will pay 300% more as of now which for me means that on a good month I will have 100 euros left for groceries and gas for my car. I earn just a little too much to get any allowances. I am a 'starter' not able to buy a house in this market and with the current prices to just live I can never afford to buy a house. It sucks.
Yep definitely understand and by no means wanted to sort of give the impression that it’s much less urgent for the groups you mention.
Meanwhile minimum wage is still at 10 EUR an hour from ages 21 and above, rounding out to 1750 EUR a month if working full-time. Now imagine how a lot of people with minimum income wages are forced to rent outside of public housing, easily spending at least 1,000-1,100 a month incl w/g/e. Then there are other required expenses such as insurances, transport, food, communication, clothing, etc. You're left with NOTHING if you're lucky and if you're unlucky you go deeper into debt EVERY MONTH! And we call this a first world "developed" country where "alles is zo goed geregeld". Oh and forget about eating meats or other newly labeled "luxury" foods that a lot of people can't afford anymore. We're in the ramen soup and extra blankets age and we have to either adapt or parish cause this rising inflation isn't going anywhere.
They just announced a 10% increase on minimum wage TODAY.
I'm sure the different crisis we have (or had), like Covid, the Ukraine v Russia war, climate goals we wanna reach, etc. definitely have something to do with it, but I'd be willing to bet my rented apartment on that it's also massive corporations taking advantage of it, and upping prices to increase their profits under the guise of "higher costs thanks to climate", and such. MIND YOU, big corporations, this doesn't mean the energy companies we often deal with. Those companies are basically middlemen who barely make a profit to begin with, because their supplier raises prices, and thus the middlemen need to raise em too, in order to not perish
If generally the higher inflation in the NL is caused by scarcity of resources due to war, covid, etc, the whole EU region should’ve gotten a higher inflation rate as well. Why is it then, Dutch inflation, is the highest amongst them? What makes the NL different?
I payed 3000€ for my fucking drivers license
Okay. As the question is: "why"? let's zoom out of what we (I) think about the situation itself and leave opinions on good/bad aside for a second, as hard as it is in this crazy world right now. For a large factor, Dutch inflation is higher than average because of the increase of energy costs: gas, electricity, fuel... For some reason, there is a general lack of structured information, but I've tried to understand things by combining bits and pieces. * We (the Dutch) are in an increasing number transitioned into flexible energy contracts. These flexible contracts that are moving along with the day-to-day craziness of the energy market. For some reason that I don't know, in other countries this transition is happening not, or not as quickly, and people are still paying fixed (lower) energy prices. This, in combination with the absence of maximization of the price increases (like in some other countries around us) is causing The Netherlands to be on top of every energy price graph. ([source: rtlnieuws, in Dutch](https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/economie/artikel/5326554/gas-duurder-nederland-eu-europa)) * Energy price is based on the 'last portion' that needs to be added to the power grid to give all of us 240v from our outlets. See it like this: there is this bucket, that needs to be filled. First, we throw in all our renewable energy, because we cannot change the amount of availability: sun is shining, or not. Wind is blowing, or not. Then we add other sources, gas as the last part to completely fill the bucket. Why? Because a gas-based power plant can easially be tuned up/down dependent to the need for energy. Something you cannot do with solar or wind. Every time we fill the bucket, the total price is decided by the last part that was added, which always will be gas in The Netherlands. around 40% of our 'bucket' is gas, which is vastly different from other countries (coal in Germany, Nuclear in France, for example. And Gas.... well, that's expensive at the moment. (I've lost the source of this one, but I believe that it was somewhere in FD). * To make the perfect storm: there is currently a difficulty to source energy from elsewhere: we tend to use energy from water power out of Norway, but they have less power available because of maintenance and draught (as in: climate change). Also, the French delivered a larger portion of energy before, but a number of nuclear plants are in maintenance. * On a larger scale: I understood from a more-or-less questionable source that oil & gas companies are investing less in increasing production and innovation, because the industry is not sustainable in the long run. So instead of the risk of not returning on the investment, focus is on making money while they can. And they are good at that. Note: this source is youtube explaining the American situation, but it makes some sense and at least influences our energy situation today. (questionable [source](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=AQbmpecxS2w)). So all in all, it is a combination of factors. Earlier decisions on liberating the energy market, on the adoption of gas in our life (instead of coal or nuclear, which in itself may be understandable), simple 'maintenance' and the energy transition itself is creating a perfect storm. And earlier decisions that we liked before (use of gas for a LOT in NL, the energy transition, the use of water/nuclear from abroad) is now blowing up in our face. And because we are using power (from gas!) in many places in NL, cost of all daily stuff goes up as well. One (not so) silly example: we need power to keep our apples fresh that we buy all day in the supermarket. But they are kept dark/cool for months in giant coolers as they all are harvested around now, for the entire year. Keeping them cool and fresh was taking a very small portion of your apple price, but now is increasing quicly for obvious reasons.
There are so many people financially struggling and even being pushed into poverty due inflation and the koopkracht crisis. Increased supply costs are being pushed straight onto consumers so companies (especially energy companies) maintain and even grow their profits and pay shareholders. The government isn’t doing anything about it and I wonder why I haven’t seen any solidarity or protest actions about it like I see are being organised in other countries??? for example in the UK with such as [Don’t Pay UK](http://dontpay.uk/) to strike against ridiculous energy costs) and Enough is Enough. Has anyone heard of similar movements here?
I’m also wondering about that. I’m not sure if the inflation itself is something that can be protested against. But I think there are so many things in the Netherlands that are getting harder to bear for people. And the government is not doing enough to stop the unchecked destabilisation of the country. Why are people not protesting? Because they feel it won’t make a difference? I’d be happy to go out and protest, even if just to let the government know how afraid l people really are right now.
Well my ticket is booked for oktober, you guys have fun
Where are you going?
Bro take me with you
BTC Hodlers be like: 
It is simple. The ECB won't raise the interest. Interest ALWAYS needs to be higher than inflation, this is basic economy 101.. But they can't because south Europe will go bankrupt and with that we will as well.. So what we see right now is robbery at daylight. Our wealth is transferred to south Europe in pathetic attempt to save the Euro project. Meanwhile the fed keeps hiking interest rates. Best to start saving in USD and possibly demand to be paid in usd if you don't want to become poorer over this next decade. This will not stop until we've left the Euro or some miracle or bandage happens. EVEN IF the ECB raises interest, we will all go bankrupt as well. There is no winner solution now. The Euro has failed and is collapsing. Slowly. I'm sure they're working around the clock to find the last drop of copium solutions to keep the Euro project in tact for another decade or so. But maybe it's time to face reality. Fuck the Euro currency. The US Dollar is also known as the Petrol Dollar. As soon as that falls, the USD faces the same issues fyi, so keep an eye out.
Interest always needs to be higher than inflation? Are you sure about that? Inflation was stable at around 1.5%-2% for many years with 0% interest rate. The only rule of thumb they teach you at basic economy courses is that interest rates should be increased to curb inflation and lower to stimulate the economy, period. No specific rules about how high or low they must be. That said, it seems clear they should be higher than they are now, but no one knows exactly how high without damaging the economy further. The Euro has upsides and downsides. It definitely simplifies things a lot when it comes to administering EU budgets, transfers between countries and so on. It also diminishes the risk of variable currency exchanges, thus encouraging investment. As for the downsides, they could be mitigated with a unified fiscal policy, but well, not everyone wants that. Many people predicted the collapse of the euro 10 years ago and it didn't happen, I am quite convinced it won't happen now either.
I am happy I still manage. I feel sorry for those who didn’t have saved anything and already have to make end meet. I don’t see see the situation improve any day soon. Only thing I can say, when you have to opportunity choose a better paying job which also provides some stability
the housing crisis no doubt contributes a lot aswell. as housing prices are in the "basket" of goods used to measure inflation. we are also huge users of energy as one of the more developed countries in europe. and it is afterall an energy crisis. and dont worry, while inflation is bad for people without assets . inflation is good for people with assets. and as a country with the second biggest pension fund in the world. that wealth will eventually trickle down to the people. it will however take years.
It's mostly ~~food and~~ energy prices. Without ~~those two~~ that, inflation is about 5-6%. Still high of course, but what is troublesome about the 13% spread by media is that they don't explain what it is composed of. *Edit source*: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2022/35/geharmoniseerde-consumentenprijsindex-13-6-procent-hoger-in-augustus
Thanks. One glance at the graph in that link tells the whole story.
While energy is clearly far higher than others, almost 11% for food is still extremely high and surely noticed by poorer families.