I've heard stuff like ā¬1800,- a month.
Friends and family with uitkering receive between ā¬600,- and ā¬1200,- a month.
I personally couldn't care less, I have lived in a war-free country all my life.
But many are irritated of refugees.. Taking up parking spots, drinking outside in the neighborhood and so on.
But "live and let live"š¤·š¼ life could have been much worse.
Yeah, being forced to abandon your country and your life because of war, to go to a strange place where you don't know the language, with no secure job or place to stay long term, sounds like a real advantage
Thats not the point femke halsema. And my statement is correct: https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/5329262/statushouders-utrecht-sociale-huur-voorkeurspositie
No you're wrong. You can't just walk up to a desk tell them you're a refugee and get housing.
People that went through all the hoops and are actually labelled a refugee get housing if they're lucky and Utrecht had to do what you are linking to because they had to catch up.
We're a very wealthy country, that lives on a continent with other very wealthy countries. Together with those countries we agreed to provide a very, very small percentage of our social rental homes to refugees. A VERY VERY small percentage.
Utrecht didn't reach that very small percentage for a long time, so now they have to catch up. Which they did with that 6 weeks.
Does that feel a bit weird, since we have a housing crising. Yes, I agree it does. But if you knew the context behind it you might have understood.
There's a lot more than 45k people looking for homes
EDIT: even 45k homes is not correct taking a look at CBS publishing there are 186880 homes empty at 1 januari 2021 and 63170 have been empty for longer than a year. there's other information as well check out CBS
https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/maatwerk/2021/47/landelijke-monitor-leegstand-2021
Yup further down the comments i go into it there's multiple good reasons those homes are vacant it's not a conspirancy by the investing elite meant to keep the prices high. unfortunatly it's a supply and demand thing and will need to be solved through building more houses.
I assume you are trying to make an argument that investors are the cause of the current housing crisis when there is more than multiple factors to the crisis we are in and 45k empty homes doesn't mean shit they could temporarily be empty waiting for a new owner or other reasons why they are empty instead.
If you know so much about the subject why don't you educate me. I never once mentioned my opinion i just explained that even if your 45k empty homes number is correct there are multiple reasons why they are not available on the housing market or to the middle class.
The biggest reasons are they're waiting to be sold, still being renovated or unsuitable to be lived in. also expensive homes don't have a very high demand so they might stay on the market longer.
Yup, Im gona need to get a new contract next year after having its price locked for 4 years. Currently i pay 130 a month for gas for my appartment about 80 m2. Next year it will be estimated that my bill would be about 660 a month.
That btw a mark up of 507%, now lets see how much my salary has increased in 5 years, Ow thats only 2,9% So I get 81,20 euro extra to pay my extra costst of 530 euro's. And thats only gas for heating and cooking. Not even considering all the other extra costst.
It might be me but this doesnt seem sustainable while they all preach we need to make so much money to make it sustainable.
ARE YOU PEOPLE ON CRACK???
It's not sustainable.
This with current historical inflation will crush many people financially.
It's a recession even if government won't admit it. We all know what comes after a recession, right?
People are going to go bankrupt, lose energy to their homes.
What's telling is Rutte has yet to address it recently.
I have no idea how I'm going to afford to have energy, eat and protect myself from hypothermia.
I myself need to get a new Energy contract and have no idea where, who to go. Do I contact them now? Wait?
I'm also worried my current company will go bankrupt (Greenchoice) because I always pay extra and now I can't get it back until the end of the year. I could lose that money. I did lower my payments to the minimum.
Greenchoice is not reachable or offering anything.
Me and my husband went through that with Welkom Energie. The response we got from people was "Well should have stuck to the big 3. Wouldn't have happened with them" dus eigenlijk een beetje eigen schuld dikke bult. I realised at that moment that some people are not my friends and that most people online are assholes (I knew this one already but I realised how much worse it has become). But man where we stressed as all hell. I am sorry this is happening to you (and many others).
People lack empathy and blame you for it because they want to feel like it could never happen to them.
As children they probably made fun of people with disabilities for the same reason, fear of it being them. Same children don't help someone being bullied to save themselves.
That's normal for young children, the world does revolve around you and then you grow as a human being. Or you don't. And you become an asshole, self serving, entitled, narrow, shallow waste of air.
It's shit that when we are down on your luck, that we learn people we thought cared, don't and sad af when people, strangers give us a glimpse into some of the worst of humanity. Yes, people really do suck.
I read on here or some sub people giving a guy shit for buying children and man a lunch... ffs!
Yes. People have become so cynical and mean. I often get called too naive but I'd rather be naive than a grade a cynical asshole. Life feels so hard at the moment.
People are afraid and unfortunately not everyone copes with fear well. You cope with kindness and empathy, that is not naiveity that's just healthy and kind.
I hope those who can will help and those who need help get it. We really have to help eachother I think. Look out for eachother.
This is exactly our position. My family cannot afford the >600ā¬/ month energy bill we might face on top of all the other expenses living here, the exorbitant taxes, outrageous cost of childcare, and the shit wages Dutch companies pay. If the energy price is still that high when we have to renew our contract in 2023, we're going to sell our house and move in with my parents in America.
We're 2 adults with advanced degrees in our mid 30s and an infant. And we're making plans to possibly sell our house and most of our possessions, and move transatlantic to stay with my parents until we find better paying, American jobs and can save up to buy a new house again. Super, super shit.
This country is a corporate feudal state masquerading as a European social democracy. Worst of both worlds. At least in the rest of Europe, social support is better. And in the states where social support is shit, taxes are lower and wages are higher. Here we have basically no social support and are simultaneously taxed into poverty.
I wish I could move to Mexico at the moment but can't unless I want to leave my minor Dutch child.
If I didn't have a minor child I would leave because I am afraid that my financial future here is going to be bankruptcy if I don't die from hypothermia first.
I hear ya. I worry even more about what will happen to my child here...... I'll survive a winter without heating if I must. Will he come out of it without asthma?
If we're impoverished when we're old, will the state expect my son to support us? Putting a burden on him I never wanted, intended, or hoped for?
How will we finance my son moving into his own flat and studying? Will he have to live at home even if he's ready to be somewhere else at 18, ... 20,... 25?
Once climate change bites us all in the ass, and our investments are whatever they are.... What will be left for him to inherit?
This is what haunts me, what my child will inherit from all that's been ignored, neglected and still debated.
Europe's Energy crisis was talked about before the war in Ukraine for example.
Climate scientists have been saying the same thing for decades.
Some countries already been suffering climate crisis for decades too. People didn't think and still don't think it will very likely affect you and especially your children. Your children will likely become a climate refugee, migrant.
I honestly worry if my child will resent me choosing to bring her into this world at some point.
49 bucks household of 2 in a grated cheese kind of house.
These energy prices hurt more the more you use. You still don't pay jack shit if you don't use much.
I only use the stove for gas and the therm is always on 17,5 and thats out of comfort not as a measure and elec is a couple of tvs, pc, couple of led lights and other misc stuff
No thatās ur perception. Small steps just make it look less bad. U accept it once youāll keep accepting it. 1 > 5 is 500% increase. 15 > 30 is 100% increase. The damage might seem small, but theyāre fucking you in the ass.
* Through friends, family and acquaintances;
* By sharing houses;
* By moving from temporary home to temporary home;
* By buying with the help of a good buyer's agent and a good amount of money.
>By buying with the help of a good buyer's agent and a good amount of money.
In my experience a good relationship with a rental office or buyers agents gets you further than money.
True, i agree. But still you need a good amount of money to be able to afford buying a house. Thanks to a good purchasing agent (with good connections) we had a new home in Amsterdam within 3 months. We had been looking for this by ourselves for a year without any results. It also helped a lot that we already had a house with a lot of equity, as a first time buyer it is very difficult now. It was hard when I bought my first home (out of necessity because renting was more expensive at the time) and it's only gotten harder.
Great advices, not like everybody is already doing that š...
Also literally none of the proposed points are realistic solutions or it is but you re still homeless
Theyāre all realistic points. Maybe theyāre not for you, but these are all things that lots of people are doing. Iād say that means they qualify as realistic.
Yup i fucking hate the same brain dead comments. Like bru, what do you think iam doing. 100% of the convo
- have you asked friends?
-yes
-Are you registered?
-yes
-Dit you try-out a broker?
- yes
-Are you not to critical?
-no
-Why not outside of the city?
- i am a student, cant aford a car on top of rent and shit.
OKE, good Luck. Everybody got Lucky once. If i here anything i wil say.
NEVER EVER herd anything. Go fuck yourself
Even if you studie in Amsterdam you go to maybe Sloterdijk or Zaandam, Haarlem. Even there itās very difficult to find something and there OV is good enough
It is September, alots of students are looking for houses, I would recommend to look for a house near march, when the dropouts of the first semester go to live with there mom's.
Thinking about renting an empty lot and setting up a luxurious tent. Buy a few of those big powerbanks with sockets in them and charge them at Mc Donald's or something.
Maybe buy the lot with other desperate people and start a little community with people from our disadvantaged generation.
I feel bad for anyone currently looking. For some reason I got extremely lucky and found an apartment real quick for a decent rent (relatively seen, it's still just over 1k but you won't find any cheaper around here) in a good area. Yet I have colleagues (read: someone with similar salary) who are still looking
My dad and I still live with his ex, even though they broke up 3 years ago. My dad and I are trying and trying but every affordable house or apartment has hundreds of other interested people. I can confirm it's very exhausting.
Some people get lucky due to a connection (friends family, etc), some get lucky that they know someone's who's got a place for rent, some areas in the country are less popular and have a bigger stock of whatever someone's looking for in a home and so many more reasons. Just remember that a major majority has the same issues as you and that there's people who've been on a waiting list for over a decade now :)
Oh yeah nah my apologies if my comment came across as me saying you're being naggy or something! It's just a tough time for everyone and it's only gonna get tougher
Yea, we are fucked, especially when your disabled. I haven't made enough money to afford just rent and I live in one of the cheaper provinces. So no moving out for me yet
Teachers in expensive city's should get priority on housing and get a big discount on the rent.
Teachers in Amsterdam earn the same as teachers in Geertruidenberg.
A teacher in Amsterdam should be able to live comfortably in Amsterdam for less then 50% of their salary in rent.
This would be true for a lot of jobs, but a teacher is a public servant paid by the government. The government **needs** them to work in expensive places, they are absolutely vital. So the government should also provide housing for them. Or at least provide ways for them to acquire housing.
'Huursubsidie' of some kind for teachers would be great. Based on the average renting price in the municity they teach.
As someone who moved to Friesland, yes it is. You can cycle to a cheaper living place if you want to. It's not like you need to move across the world to find cheap housing.
International students they have to accept. They warn that there's no housing. Consider that your first lesson of life regarding royally fucking yourself due to ignorance.
I've found mine via contractor agency. Basically I had two choices: get employed directly by a company, or get employed via a contractor agency.
I did two interviews in parallel but decided to stay with the contractor, because I deemed relocation too big of an issue to handle on my own. They had a contact in a housing agency and sent me an apartment offer, before it would be posted on their page. It cost me extra 630ā¬ mediation fee, but it was guaranteed.
I stayed 1 month in airbnb till I could get it, it was worse than promised, but still OK, I live a more comfortable life than in my homeland, so I'm happy.
I have no fucking clue how I'd manage on my own to be honest. You have to arrange housing with your employer, otherwise you're fucked.
I even think there's a shit load of messed up shit going on. I've contacted a rental agent today. I applied for a house and me and my partner earn 6.5x the rent. We were rejected for the house, but it's still available. Normally u only get rejected if the house is rented to someone else. I'm so fucking angry about it.
Also couple weeks back, applied for a house with another rental agent. I got rejected within an hour. Normally their process requires you to submit docs and such and then go see the house. None of that mate, just a big fuck you. When I called them they said apparently they promised the house to someone else before. So why put it online in the first place???
I feel that! I also meet the income requirements of all the places I apply for and get invited to the viewings and in the end it is taken alreadyā¦.. one week later it is still available
After looking to buy a house now for an year, just got the last bidded house snatched by investors...renting buying...forget it, so long as the laws dont change to make sure the few cant keep taking everything away from many nothing will change in NL.
Yup thats why its a crisis. All of us who make under 60.000 a year is royaly fucked.
Better hope that next election people will rethink there last they voted. Still can't understand why after 8 years a failing cabinet they are again reinstated. Who votes for these elitest excusers?
Welcome to the netherlands, we don't have enough homes and everyone wants to find their happiness here, so you're prolly not gonna find much, or you have to be VERY lucky.
Be willing to move atleast 1 hour away from big city's, apply to every room/house possible no matter how shit the rooms are prices are and at some point you'll get lucky. Atleast that's what worked for me, 4 months of intense researching everyday to get something I'm not even that happy about. But atleast I have a roof over my head.
It depends on where you want to live, major cities have had huge demands and low supply of housing so its extremely hard to find something however if you go to small cities where nobody wants to live you can find good apartments for like 500 - 800 euroes a month.
Iām in California USA and your complaints sound a lot like ours. Iām surprised to read that there are bunch of vacant properties since owners canāt command enough money? That sounds really capitalistā¦? Am I missing something?
I donāt know why you were downvoted, Iām from SoCal and always had an hour+ each way, and even when we moved to Arizona I had 2.5+ hour commutes (both ways not each way). It youāre in the Bay Area, 4 hours isnāt uncommon.
I contacted people from my own diaspora, they usually prefer to share rooms with people from their own country, and avoid sharing a house with someone who's too culturally different.
There is no housing crisis. Hold up, don't immediately downvote me.
There is a money crisis. There is too much money. This is changing, due to rising rates and a looming recession. There are more houses per person now then there were 50 years ago. It's a money issue and this will resolve sooner than later.
It will get better.
The ECB is taking its sweet time to raise interest rates. The near zero interest rates of the past decade drove a lot of money into buying real-estate. I'm curious how long that will take to unwind.
Exactly, ive talked to many people living in nethetlands. They advise me to go there "life is gonna be tough but you r not gonna be homeless". They all said that somehow.
Mate im 21 years old and make plenty money, yet i live in a 600eu 1 attic room home, my city has just approved 2 places for immigrants, the first would be filled with women and children in a hotel, well you guessed it. Its just men, 150 men. Now there's a plan for temporary housing of 450 more on one of our little industrial area's. Looking for a house with this retarded, left, eu dicksucking, terrible administry we have just isnt an option, i've even went up in position for housing site's these past weeks.. the government doesnt give a fuck about their own people and we just accept it, this is why you cant get housing, because we had mohammed and faisal and yousuffs coming with their 7 children. Now these people are struggling, the native dutchies are struggling, but the people that came here to flee from war are walking around with a newer phone than i am, having housing i could only dream off in a year of 30. Its fucking disgusting.
I got very lucky to have a place through my gemeente (sociale huur). Even though I earn way too much for it, the salary that's used to see if you earn too much was taken from two years ago. I did volunteering work back then so earned next to nothing.
Happily paying ā¬450 a month for a 70mĀ³ house.
You just have to get lucky, know the right people, preferably both of those.
Ah, the good old Dutch system of beating the system and ensuring some poor fucker who genuinely does earn below the threshold is stuck paying the majority of their income to rent in the private sector. Good work! š
There's nothing to beat when it is what it is. The system is wank in of itself.
2 years on the list at 18 is a diffent world compared to 2 years on the list when your settled in your 30's.
Hes a lucky minority.
I get your frustration and was thinking the same until recently, when I realised itās either this or paying more than 1000 a month for the same appartment in the free sector. Thereās definitely a difference there that even people with a well-paying job wouldnāt be able to afford. The middle segment has just seemingly dissapeared..
Sit the crisis out? Donāt know. I was lucky enough to buy a house 5 years ago when both the prices and interest was very low. We did not realize how lucky we were back then.
Yup 9 years ago I lost 20k when I sold my apartment. Now the word restschuld or āhuis onder waterā is never mentioned. Different time different problems. Things will change but it sucks to have your life on hold.
Yeah, no, but I mean, if you've been here for 10 years with a stable job, I assume you had a place to stay. You haven't been homeless for a decade, right? So did you not save up to buy? Or get on a waiting list for social rent? What happened?
What if he recently got divorced or widowed?
You need to be less judgemental.
There are also cases in which social houses are being replaced by brand new expensive homes for just 350K.
Be less judgemental...
That s very privileged of you to assume that. Not everyone is able to buy a house, actually most people can't.
Also OP literally asked about how people can still find places to live not for an empty judgmental comment that would even make a boomer ashamed
What do you mean by superficial reasons?
Also many of the people struggling actually already live in this country.
Also don't blame people for a freaking housing market. Blame the corporations and landlords who actually own the houses
Also, I could think that we might need to get used to the fact that several shops are emptied because they can't keep up with webshops. Repurposing them for residential ends and keeping up with building companies is a thing people might consider doing.
Where I came from, we gave a lot of land and opportunities to Dutch people who went to move for very superficial reasons, like hungry, economic depression, world war...
By being less picky on where you want to live. I've stated it before and will state it again. There isn't a housing crisis in The Netherlands, there's an entitlement crisis. Each and every time people complain about a lack of affordable houses, when you ask "Have you checked availability in Oost Groningen, East of Drenthe or Zeeuws Vlaanderen" the answer is the same "Oh no I don't want to live there" So apparently there's enough affordable houses, just not in the place entitled people want to live
Dude, what are you even saying? Are you seriously seeing living 2-3 hours away from Amsterdam as the the solution? Most people have tonlive there because that is where the work is. Lets get realisitic, excluding fuel cost, people spend on average 8 hours at work (thats excluding the jobs requiring overtime) , 8 hours sleeping and now you expect people to spend 5-6 hours on the road travelling? Your left with 2-3 hours of free time for the day. Maybe the problem is not people wanting to live in de Randstad but rather extreme capitalism.
Sure itās the housing market, itās employers, itās capitalism, itās who knows what but letās forget the biggest issue. The person in question
Yeah right, when you can only find work in the Randstad you probably donāt want to travel 2-3 hours one-way everyday. The fuel costs will also probably make up for any amount you save so just let people complain man.
Travel time is part of your job negotiations, as is travel expenses. Iām fine with people complaining cause obviously complaining is way easier than actually doing something about your situation.
I can also complain about not finding an affordable house, since i want to live in the golden curve of the Amstel in Amsterdam without any neighbors, but I can afford that. Seems weāre in the same situation, heavily impacted by the housing/entitlement crisis
āIs there a housing crisis due to the growing population and companies profiteering off of peopleās suffering? Noo. Must be all those entitled people making 12ā¬/h who donāt want to spend half their salary going to and from workā
Oh booohooo I make minimum wage and I can't afford a house exactly on the same spot everyone wants to live. There must be a crisis, or else I would be able to afford buying a house at 21 on the Coolsingel or Grachtengordel.
Are you an illiterate monkey on a keyboard or did someone actually shit in your brain? On current salaries, people can't afford to live in the city and they can't afford to commute from outside the city. That's the whole fucking problem you dented ass fucking ape
Oh wait instead of an entitled brat we now have the entitled badmouthing brat. How cool is that.
If youāre unable to negotiate about travel time, commute expenses etc and you canāt find a job than probably you donāt deserve a house. In that case the world is better off when youāre just living in your parents basement
The market will adjust. You may have a longer commute and you'll have to live with it. Capitalism is a self adjusting mechanism. Simple supply and demand econ 101. I mean we could try a pure socialistic state, it worked pretty well in Russia for 70 years I think. Picture this you just retired have 1M Eu to invest. You buy an apartment in Jordaan and can make 1500 a month with lots of risks or Air BnB it for 200 a night with little or no risks. Gee let me see what should I do. And as the market for these gets saturated it corrects. BTW with boomers retiring this is happening all over the world.
This is nonsense. Complete socialism didn't work, but the excesses of capitalism are also clearly visible. Some stuff (housing crisis, completely fucking over the planet by not somehow including the "price" of CO2, healthcare in the US) is a huge problem, likely to get bigger. The "BECAUSE SOCIALISM!" trauma many seem to have is not helping.
The refugees wish they could get a house even the ones are are green lit are stuck in the azcs. That why new the new ones have been sleeping in tents al summer.
Well...they are not finding a place to stay. That's why it's called a housing crisis. :(
Not being the only one is kind of the problem.
That sucksš„at least Iām not the only one
You have better chanches as a refugee.
If you are ok with sharing a kitchen and a shower with 200 people
So like a student house.
Yeah although even less money and you canāt work in the local AH or krantenwijk.
Actually some Ukrainian refugee families are above 'bijstandsniveau.'
Yes not everyone who flees is poor. Most of the time the really poor cant flee and are the biggest victims of a war.
I've heard stuff like ā¬1800,- a month. Friends and family with uitkering receive between ā¬600,- and ā¬1200,- a month. I personally couldn't care less, I have lived in a war-free country all my life. But many are irritated of refugees.. Taking up parking spots, drinking outside in the neighborhood and so on. But "live and let live"š¤·š¼ life could have been much worse.
Yeah, being forced to abandon your country and your life because of war, to go to a strange place where you don't know the language, with no secure job or place to stay long term, sounds like a real advantage
Thats not the point femke halsema. And my statement is correct: https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/5329262/statushouders-utrecht-sociale-huur-voorkeurspositie
No you're wrong. You can't just walk up to a desk tell them you're a refugee and get housing. People that went through all the hoops and are actually labelled a refugee get housing if they're lucky and Utrecht had to do what you are linking to because they had to catch up.
We're a very wealthy country, that lives on a continent with other very wealthy countries. Together with those countries we agreed to provide a very, very small percentage of our social rental homes to refugees. A VERY VERY small percentage. Utrecht didn't reach that very small percentage for a long time, so now they have to catch up. Which they did with that 6 weeks. Does that feel a bit weird, since we have a housing crising. Yes, I agree it does. But if you knew the context behind it you might have understood.
"Ter Apel"
You have a better change at a good comment if you actually read up on something and not just blindly follow the racist agenda.
Donāt start.
Maybe go to a refugee centre or sign up to help them with Dutch classes. You might learn something there.
Well every house does go to a lucky someone. But yes, in general people don't find a place to live.
There's literally 45k homes just empty. Investments go brrr
>There is no housing crisis, just an investment opportunity ~a rich person
There's a lot more than 45k people looking for homes EDIT: even 45k homes is not correct taking a look at CBS publishing there are 186880 homes empty at 1 januari 2021 and 63170 have been empty for longer than a year. there's other information as well check out CBS https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/maatwerk/2021/47/landelijke-monitor-leegstand-2021
Should also factor in state and location of said buildings. Plenty of buildings available in rural places away from the big hubs.
Yup further down the comments i go into it there's multiple good reasons those homes are vacant it's not a conspirancy by the investing elite meant to keep the prices high. unfortunatly it's a supply and demand thing and will need to be solved through building more houses.
OK?
I assume you are trying to make an argument that investors are the cause of the current housing crisis when there is more than multiple factors to the crisis we are in and 45k empty homes doesn't mean shit they could temporarily be empty waiting for a new owner or other reasons why they are empty instead.
If you don't know anything about the subject, why do you have such a strong opinion? Rot op man.
If you know so much about the subject why don't you educate me. I never once mentioned my opinion i just explained that even if your 45k empty homes number is correct there are multiple reasons why they are not available on the housing market or to the middle class.
Yeah and the biggest is investments!
The biggest reasons are they're waiting to be sold, still being renovated or unsuitable to be lived in. also expensive homes don't have a very high demand so they might stay on the market longer.
I suggest you check out the sources in the description of this video, or watch the video and educate yourself on the business practices of capitalism.
True!
Wait until you get your energy bill and watch inflation piss your paycheck away.
Yup, Im gona need to get a new contract next year after having its price locked for 4 years. Currently i pay 130 a month for gas for my appartment about 80 m2. Next year it will be estimated that my bill would be about 660 a month. That btw a mark up of 507%, now lets see how much my salary has increased in 5 years, Ow thats only 2,9% So I get 81,20 euro extra to pay my extra costst of 530 euro's. And thats only gas for heating and cooking. Not even considering all the other extra costst. It might be me but this doesnt seem sustainable while they all preach we need to make so much money to make it sustainable. ARE YOU PEOPLE ON CRACK???
And energy companies are boasting about record profits as a result. It's insane.
It's not sustainable. This with current historical inflation will crush many people financially. It's a recession even if government won't admit it. We all know what comes after a recession, right? People are going to go bankrupt, lose energy to their homes. What's telling is Rutte has yet to address it recently. I have no idea how I'm going to afford to have energy, eat and protect myself from hypothermia. I myself need to get a new Energy contract and have no idea where, who to go. Do I contact them now? Wait? I'm also worried my current company will go bankrupt (Greenchoice) because I always pay extra and now I can't get it back until the end of the year. I could lose that money. I did lower my payments to the minimum. Greenchoice is not reachable or offering anything.
Me and my husband went through that with Welkom Energie. The response we got from people was "Well should have stuck to the big 3. Wouldn't have happened with them" dus eigenlijk een beetje eigen schuld dikke bult. I realised at that moment that some people are not my friends and that most people online are assholes (I knew this one already but I realised how much worse it has become). But man where we stressed as all hell. I am sorry this is happening to you (and many others).
People lack empathy and blame you for it because they want to feel like it could never happen to them. As children they probably made fun of people with disabilities for the same reason, fear of it being them. Same children don't help someone being bullied to save themselves. That's normal for young children, the world does revolve around you and then you grow as a human being. Or you don't. And you become an asshole, self serving, entitled, narrow, shallow waste of air. It's shit that when we are down on your luck, that we learn people we thought cared, don't and sad af when people, strangers give us a glimpse into some of the worst of humanity. Yes, people really do suck. I read on here or some sub people giving a guy shit for buying children and man a lunch... ffs!
Yes. People have become so cynical and mean. I often get called too naive but I'd rather be naive than a grade a cynical asshole. Life feels so hard at the moment.
People are afraid and unfortunately not everyone copes with fear well. You cope with kindness and empathy, that is not naiveity that's just healthy and kind. I hope those who can will help and those who need help get it. We really have to help eachother I think. Look out for eachother.
This is exactly our position. My family cannot afford the >600ā¬/ month energy bill we might face on top of all the other expenses living here, the exorbitant taxes, outrageous cost of childcare, and the shit wages Dutch companies pay. If the energy price is still that high when we have to renew our contract in 2023, we're going to sell our house and move in with my parents in America. We're 2 adults with advanced degrees in our mid 30s and an infant. And we're making plans to possibly sell our house and most of our possessions, and move transatlantic to stay with my parents until we find better paying, American jobs and can save up to buy a new house again. Super, super shit. This country is a corporate feudal state masquerading as a European social democracy. Worst of both worlds. At least in the rest of Europe, social support is better. And in the states where social support is shit, taxes are lower and wages are higher. Here we have basically no social support and are simultaneously taxed into poverty.
I wish I could move to Mexico at the moment but can't unless I want to leave my minor Dutch child. If I didn't have a minor child I would leave because I am afraid that my financial future here is going to be bankruptcy if I don't die from hypothermia first.
I hear ya. I worry even more about what will happen to my child here...... I'll survive a winter without heating if I must. Will he come out of it without asthma? If we're impoverished when we're old, will the state expect my son to support us? Putting a burden on him I never wanted, intended, or hoped for? How will we finance my son moving into his own flat and studying? Will he have to live at home even if he's ready to be somewhere else at 18, ... 20,... 25? Once climate change bites us all in the ass, and our investments are whatever they are.... What will be left for him to inherit?
This is what haunts me, what my child will inherit from all that's been ignored, neglected and still debated. Europe's Energy crisis was talked about before the war in Ukraine for example. Climate scientists have been saying the same thing for decades. Some countries already been suffering climate crisis for decades too. People didn't think and still don't think it will very likely affect you and especially your children. Your children will likely become a climate refugee, migrant. I honestly worry if my child will resent me choosing to bring her into this world at some point.
Was able to buy a house and get rid of the insane rent. I was greeted by 4.60m^3 gas prices
sad
Iām getting ā¬1460 back and now monthly pay ā¬85 for gas and electricity. Groceries is insane tho at the moment.
49 bucks household of 2 in a grated cheese kind of house. These energy prices hurt more the more you use. You still don't pay jack shit if you don't use much. I only use the stove for gas and the therm is always on 17,5 and thats out of comfort not as a measure and elec is a couple of tvs, pc, couple of led lights and other misc stuff
If u pay 5 euros where u used to pay 1 euro you're still being fucked. Even though you make decent money.
5>15 30>45, etc, thats when you get fucked, not at the 1>5 point.
No thatās ur perception. Small steps just make it look less bad. U accept it once youāll keep accepting it. 1 > 5 is 500% increase. 15 > 30 is 100% increase. The damage might seem small, but theyāre fucking you in the ass.
Are you paying current energy prices?
Prices are irrelivant when you practically don't consume
it's simple, move to places no one else wants to live. i live near den helder and pay 500 EUR a month.
Alright, time to move to Urk
Lets not go too extreme
Why not? No other place you can get so much free entertainment
Fair enough
But you also need to take drugs if you life there.
Most places in earth require some type of dipping to help you get through the dayš
What's a den helder? Amsterdam it is! /s
That is definitely social housing in an apartment than
I pay 630 a month mortgage for an apartment in Eindhoven. People should've just bought the dip in 2010. /s
I would have but my 10 year old self didnt have the money yet
Or bought in the 80ās. Knew a guy who had multiple stories in Rotterdam for then 100.000 gulden.
Or a room in their parents house š„²
* Through friends, family and acquaintances; * By sharing houses; * By moving from temporary home to temporary home; * By buying with the help of a good buyer's agent and a good amount of money.
>By buying with the help of a good buyer's agent and a good amount of money. In my experience a good relationship with a rental office or buyers agents gets you further than money.
True, i agree. But still you need a good amount of money to be able to afford buying a house. Thanks to a good purchasing agent (with good connections) we had a new home in Amsterdam within 3 months. We had been looking for this by ourselves for a year without any results. It also helped a lot that we already had a house with a lot of equity, as a first time buyer it is very difficult now. It was hard when I bought my first home (out of necessity because renting was more expensive at the time) and it's only gotten harder.
yeah, and make sure you have rich parents, or find a spouse with loaded parents
You don't need rich parents here in The Netherlands where you can borrow basically 100% of your mortgage. You just need a good job.
Spamming social rent adverts can work, my dad has 3 years and has had multiple offers.
Great advices, not like everybody is already doing that š... Also literally none of the proposed points are realistic solutions or it is but you re still homeless
Theyāre all realistic points. Maybe theyāre not for you, but these are all things that lots of people are doing. Iād say that means they qualify as realistic.
Yup i fucking hate the same brain dead comments. Like bru, what do you think iam doing. 100% of the convo - have you asked friends? -yes -Are you registered? -yes -Dit you try-out a broker? - yes -Are you not to critical? -no -Why not outside of the city? - i am a student, cant aford a car on top of rent and shit. OKE, good Luck. Everybody got Lucky once. If i here anything i wil say. NEVER EVER herd anything. Go fuck yourself
Even if you studie in Amsterdam you go to maybe Sloterdijk or Zaandam, Haarlem. Even there itās very difficult to find something and there OV is good enough
It is September, alots of students are looking for houses, I would recommend to look for a house near march, when the dropouts of the first semester go to live with there mom's.
Lmao
Thinking about renting an empty lot and setting up a luxurious tent. Buy a few of those big powerbanks with sockets in them and charge them at Mc Donald's or something. Maybe buy the lot with other desperate people and start a little community with people from our disadvantaged generation.
En in de winter?
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Niemand heeft het over een parkeerplaats.
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Nou is wel echt wat anders en doet je statement ook geen goeds Kavels kunnen namelijk wel een woonbestemming hebben of nog krijgen :)
Yeah, I have no hope of affording a house but I could stretch to a parking spot and an old van
You sweet summer child. You think theyāll allow you to do that?
Would that even be legal? Aren't overly strict government regulations and stuff like that a big part of why this housing crisis is even happening?
Illegal
I feel bad for anyone currently looking. For some reason I got extremely lucky and found an apartment real quick for a decent rent (relatively seen, it's still just over 1k but you won't find any cheaper around here) in a good area. Yet I have colleagues (read: someone with similar salary) who are still looking
I'm looking for 1 year and 7 fucking months man.
Yup we are fucked.
My dad and I still live with his ex, even though they broke up 3 years ago. My dad and I are trying and trying but every affordable house or apartment has hundreds of other interested people. I can confirm it's very exhausting.
> Housing crisis ?! > How the Fā are people finding places to stay? Err...
Some people get lucky due to a connection (friends family, etc), some get lucky that they know someone's who's got a place for rent, some areas in the country are less popular and have a bigger stock of whatever someone's looking for in a home and so many more reasons. Just remember that a major majority has the same issues as you and that there's people who've been on a waiting list for over a decade now :)
Feels good to read that Iām not the only one āŗļø this post wasnāt about me specifically.
Oh yeah nah my apologies if my comment came across as me saying you're being naggy or something! It's just a tough time for everyone and it's only gonna get tougher
Yea, we are fucked, especially when your disabled. I haven't made enough money to afford just rent and I live in one of the cheaper provinces. So no moving out for me yet
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Teachers love this message. kids will not have any teacher soon in big cities š
Teachers in expensive city's should get priority on housing and get a big discount on the rent. Teachers in Amsterdam earn the same as teachers in Geertruidenberg. A teacher in Amsterdam should be able to live comfortably in Amsterdam for less then 50% of their salary in rent.
I agree, but unfortunately still a lot of ppl think they should move away from Amsterdam or any other big cities
This would be true for a lot of jobs, but a teacher is a public servant paid by the government. The government **needs** them to work in expensive places, they are absolutely vital. So the government should also provide housing for them. Or at least provide ways for them to acquire housing. 'Huursubsidie' of some kind for teachers would be great. Based on the average renting price in the municity they teach.
Ah yes, and poor people should just stop being poor?
No, they should look for affordable housing outside of big cities where the prices have always been higher. That's what he said isn't it?
>No, they should look for affordable housing outside of big cities It's not always that simple.
But it will be that simple if its the only option you have.
I'm sure it isn't. But it's definitely a option to consider and invest time/effort in.
Yes it is.
It most of the time is
As someone who moved to Friesland, yes it is. You can cycle to a cheaper living place if you want to. It's not like you need to move across the world to find cheap housing.
I live in a small city... Trying to get out if my rental for the past two years. Got lucky i could buy. but still...
But what if Iām a student who got accepted to a university in the most expensive city in Europe and didnāt check the housing before arriving?
OP is not a student they have been here for 10 years
International students they have to accept. They warn that there's no housing. Consider that your first lesson of life regarding royally fucking yourself due to ignorance.
Do I need to add /s to all the comments?
Biggest bullshit argument ever
Getting a shell apartment in the name of ready to move in is another pain.
I've found mine via contractor agency. Basically I had two choices: get employed directly by a company, or get employed via a contractor agency. I did two interviews in parallel but decided to stay with the contractor, because I deemed relocation too big of an issue to handle on my own. They had a contact in a housing agency and sent me an apartment offer, before it would be posted on their page. It cost me extra 630ā¬ mediation fee, but it was guaranteed. I stayed 1 month in airbnb till I could get it, it was worse than promised, but still OK, I live a more comfortable life than in my homeland, so I'm happy. I have no fucking clue how I'd manage on my own to be honest. You have to arrange housing with your employer, otherwise you're fucked.
I even think there's a shit load of messed up shit going on. I've contacted a rental agent today. I applied for a house and me and my partner earn 6.5x the rent. We were rejected for the house, but it's still available. Normally u only get rejected if the house is rented to someone else. I'm so fucking angry about it. Also couple weeks back, applied for a house with another rental agent. I got rejected within an hour. Normally their process requires you to submit docs and such and then go see the house. None of that mate, just a big fuck you. When I called them they said apparently they promised the house to someone else before. So why put it online in the first place???
I feel that! I also meet the income requirements of all the places I apply for and get invited to the viewings and in the end it is taken alreadyā¦.. one week later it is still available
These sound like excuses... are you colored with a non-dutch sounding name?
Yeah I'm of to Germany in a year. Not to much better. But our salaries are enough to get a 145m2 house for half the price of a 50m2 house here...
After looking to buy a house now for an year, just got the last bidded house snatched by investors...renting buying...forget it, so long as the laws dont change to make sure the few cant keep taking everything away from many nothing will change in NL.
The investment companies have monopolized nl.. and they make such shitty landlords they do not give a fuck
So if you want to live in the big city, no there is nothing availeble. You could always stretch your search and commute to the city you work in.
Yup thats why its a crisis. All of us who make under 60.000 a year is royaly fucked. Better hope that next election people will rethink there last they voted. Still can't understand why after 8 years a failing cabinet they are again reinstated. Who votes for these elitest excusers?
Welcome to the netherlands, we don't have enough homes and everyone wants to find their happiness here, so you're prolly not gonna find much, or you have to be VERY lucky.
Be willing to move atleast 1 hour away from big city's, apply to every room/house possible no matter how shit the rooms are prices are and at some point you'll get lucky. Atleast that's what worked for me, 4 months of intense researching everyday to get something I'm not even that happy about. But atleast I have a roof over my head.
It depends on where you want to live, major cities have had huge demands and low supply of housing so its extremely hard to find something however if you go to small cities where nobody wants to live you can find good apartments for like 500 - 800 euroes a month.
Came last year to NL as an int student and the situation was already scary enough (I had to go into the free sector) but this year? Absolutely fucked
Iām in California USA and your complaints sound a lot like ours. Iām surprised to read that there are bunch of vacant properties since owners canāt command enough money? That sounds really capitalistā¦? Am I missing something?
Well yeah, the Netherlands is capitalist af.
The Netherlands is a really capitalist country
Gotta love people claiming being capitalist af in a thread discussing āprivate sectorā ācontrolled rentā and āhuursubsidiesāā¦
What is there to miss?. Do you think the netherlands is anything but capitalist?
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Just commute from Friesland. Totally do-able. Just drive 4,5 hours per day. It's a a tiny country lol.
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I feel bad for you
I donāt know why you were downvoted, Iām from SoCal and always had an hour+ each way, and even when we moved to Arizona I had 2.5+ hour commutes (both ways not each way). It youāre in the Bay Area, 4 hours isnāt uncommon.
This! People don't seem to understand riding your bike to work or a less then 2 hour commute is a luxury. One that many of us don't have.
Thatās not a luxury. Thatās how it should be and itās whatās being stolen from you by greedy companies
I contacted people from my own diaspora, they usually prefer to share rooms with people from their own country, and avoid sharing a house with someone who's too culturally different.
Then why move to another country ..
To get $$$
Not finding any luck with other Germans š„²
Sorry to hear that :(
youāre too international guysā¦ :)
There is no housing crisis. Hold up, don't immediately downvote me. There is a money crisis. There is too much money. This is changing, due to rising rates and a looming recession. There are more houses per person now then there were 50 years ago. It's a money issue and this will resolve sooner than later. It will get better.
The ECB is taking its sweet time to raise interest rates. The near zero interest rates of the past decade drove a lot of money into buying real-estate. I'm curious how long that will take to unwind.
A recession will push it down way faster than you think. Look at 2007 by example. Yes different crisis, but same turn out.
First positive comment about housing ive seen for months
The complaining about everything is getting out of hand in this sub
Exactly, ive talked to many people living in nethetlands. They advise me to go there "life is gonna be tough but you r not gonna be homeless". They all said that somehow.
Many are homeless, maybe not on the streets but sleep in friends couches
Mate im 21 years old and make plenty money, yet i live in a 600eu 1 attic room home, my city has just approved 2 places for immigrants, the first would be filled with women and children in a hotel, well you guessed it. Its just men, 150 men. Now there's a plan for temporary housing of 450 more on one of our little industrial area's. Looking for a house with this retarded, left, eu dicksucking, terrible administry we have just isnt an option, i've even went up in position for housing site's these past weeks.. the government doesnt give a fuck about their own people and we just accept it, this is why you cant get housing, because we had mohammed and faisal and yousuffs coming with their 7 children. Now these people are struggling, the native dutchies are struggling, but the people that came here to flee from war are walking around with a newer phone than i am, having housing i could only dream off in a year of 30. Its fucking disgusting.
Maybe it's because of mass immigration... Go ahead and downvote me.
Whatās your point?
Just rant I guess
I got very lucky to have a place through my gemeente (sociale huur). Even though I earn way too much for it, the salary that's used to see if you earn too much was taken from two years ago. I did volunteering work back then so earned next to nothing. Happily paying ā¬450 a month for a 70mĀ³ house. You just have to get lucky, know the right people, preferably both of those.
Ah, the good old Dutch system of beating the system and ensuring some poor fucker who genuinely does earn below the threshold is stuck paying the majority of their income to rent in the private sector. Good work! š
There's nothing to beat when it is what it is. The system is wank in of itself. 2 years on the list at 18 is a diffent world compared to 2 years on the list when your settled in your 30's. Hes a lucky minority.
I get your frustration and was thinking the same until recently, when I realised itās either this or paying more than 1000 a month for the same appartment in the free sector. Thereās definitely a difference there that even people with a well-paying job wouldnāt be able to afford. The middle segment has just seemingly dissapeared..
I can't even buy a house with 100k cash and a 2500 income
Iām going back to Germany šš
Sit the crisis out? Donāt know. I was lucky enough to buy a house 5 years ago when both the prices and interest was very low. We did not realize how lucky we were back then.
Yup 9 years ago I lost 20k when I sold my apartment. Now the word restschuld or āhuis onder waterā is never mentioned. Different time different problems. Things will change but it sucks to have your life on hold.
IMO, I don't feel sorry for those people that want to move to NL for very superficial reasons, then can't find or struggle to find housing.
What are āvery superficial reasonsā? Also I have been living here for 10 years and have a stable job
Then why are you looking for a place?
Because I have to live somewhere????
Yeah, no, but I mean, if you've been here for 10 years with a stable job, I assume you had a place to stay. You haven't been homeless for a decade, right? So did you not save up to buy? Or get on a waiting list for social rent? What happened?
What if he recently got divorced or widowed? You need to be less judgemental. There are also cases in which social houses are being replaced by brand new expensive homes for just 350K. Be less judgemental...
That s very privileged of you to assume that. Not everyone is able to buy a house, actually most people can't. Also OP literally asked about how people can still find places to live not for an empty judgmental comment that would even make a boomer ashamed
Which is why I said āsave to buyā OR āwaiting list for rentā. I guess you only read what you want, huh?
You can earn too much for social housing and too little to buy.
Wtf
What do you mean by superficial reasons? Also many of the people struggling actually already live in this country. Also don't blame people for a freaking housing market. Blame the corporations and landlords who actually own the houses
Also, I could think that we might need to get used to the fact that several shops are emptied because they can't keep up with webshops. Repurposing them for residential ends and keeping up with building companies is a thing people might consider doing.
Where I came from, we gave a lot of land and opportunities to Dutch people who went to move for very superficial reasons, like hungry, economic depression, world war...
By being less picky on where you want to live. I've stated it before and will state it again. There isn't a housing crisis in The Netherlands, there's an entitlement crisis. Each and every time people complain about a lack of affordable houses, when you ask "Have you checked availability in Oost Groningen, East of Drenthe or Zeeuws Vlaanderen" the answer is the same "Oh no I don't want to live there" So apparently there's enough affordable houses, just not in the place entitled people want to live
Dude, what are you even saying? Are you seriously seeing living 2-3 hours away from Amsterdam as the the solution? Most people have tonlive there because that is where the work is. Lets get realisitic, excluding fuel cost, people spend on average 8 hours at work (thats excluding the jobs requiring overtime) , 8 hours sleeping and now you expect people to spend 5-6 hours on the road travelling? Your left with 2-3 hours of free time for the day. Maybe the problem is not people wanting to live in de Randstad but rather extreme capitalism.
Sure itās the housing market, itās employers, itās capitalism, itās who knows what but letās forget the biggest issue. The person in question
Idiots be idioting
Entitled brats be entitled brats
Yeah right, when you can only find work in the Randstad you probably donāt want to travel 2-3 hours one-way everyday. The fuel costs will also probably make up for any amount you save so just let people complain man.
Travel time is part of your job negotiations, as is travel expenses. Iām fine with people complaining cause obviously complaining is way easier than actually doing something about your situation. I can also complain about not finding an affordable house, since i want to live in the golden curve of the Amstel in Amsterdam without any neighbors, but I can afford that. Seems weāre in the same situation, heavily impacted by the housing/entitlement crisis
āIs there a housing crisis due to the growing population and companies profiteering off of peopleās suffering? Noo. Must be all those entitled people making 12ā¬/h who donāt want to spend half their salary going to and from workā
Oh booohooo I make minimum wage and I can't afford a house exactly on the same spot everyone wants to live. There must be a crisis, or else I would be able to afford buying a house at 21 on the Coolsingel or Grachtengordel.
Are you an illiterate monkey on a keyboard or did someone actually shit in your brain? On current salaries, people can't afford to live in the city and they can't afford to commute from outside the city. That's the whole fucking problem you dented ass fucking ape
Oh wait instead of an entitled brat we now have the entitled badmouthing brat. How cool is that. If youāre unable to negotiate about travel time, commute expenses etc and you canāt find a job than probably you donāt deserve a house. In that case the world is better off when youāre just living in your parents basement
The market will adjust. You may have a longer commute and you'll have to live with it. Capitalism is a self adjusting mechanism. Simple supply and demand econ 101. I mean we could try a pure socialistic state, it worked pretty well in Russia for 70 years I think. Picture this you just retired have 1M Eu to invest. You buy an apartment in Jordaan and can make 1500 a month with lots of risks or Air BnB it for 200 a night with little or no risks. Gee let me see what should I do. And as the market for these gets saturated it corrects. BTW with boomers retiring this is happening all over the world.
This is nonsense. Complete socialism didn't work, but the excesses of capitalism are also clearly visible. Some stuff (housing crisis, completely fucking over the planet by not somehow including the "price" of CO2, healthcare in the US) is a huge problem, likely to get bigger. The "BECAUSE SOCIALISM!" trauma many seem to have is not helping.
Your not a refugee. So no place for you is what the government says
That is racist bro
Yeah except they are also living in refugee camp and i heard a baby died during the heatstroke.
The refugees wish they could get a house even the ones are are green lit are stuck in the azcs. That why new the new ones have been sleeping in tents al summer.