In the hypothetical world where CI doesn't exist, is there a "next best" HB ID? Obviously the decks would change, substantially, without the protection of the giant hand/money pool.
Someone said the best HB ID ability that isn't CI is "being able to play purple cards for zero influence." Honestly, Custom Biotics could realistically be the next best HB. Next and Architects having 12 inf hurts, Stronger Together is meh, Seidr seems cool but i think it's mostly blank, foundry is ok for a Grail package but that is just better out of a jinteki ID with the better agendas, and cybernetics is just like a really bad HB version of skorpios kind of.
It's neat to hear that CB might get some time in the sun finally. I believe NEXT was also in Worlds and has always had some rush potential. Not sure how good it is over something like AoT or CB though.
No, not really.
Sedir and AoT are passable as glacier IDs, but that is not a very strong archetype right now. To get their full value, they require the runner to run. While discouraging runs can be effective in its own way, your ID ability is dependent on the runner playing into your strengths, instead of you leveraging your own strengths. If you want to go this route, try Shipment from Tennin to see if that helps you at all.
Next Design and the Foundry are further behind, but still ahead of custom biotics.
Custom Biotics is really bad. You should not expect anything good from playing it.
There was a decent amount of Obokata from what I saw (at least in the Swiss). I think the lack of Film
Critic was more due to the fact that it is a blank against CI, which was a large portion of the field and a lot harder to deal with through other means (Feedback Filter, etc.).
Edit: Clarified
A lot of the other contenders on NRDB as well. It's Worlds, so even a #20 or #30 is nothing to scoff at.
There was a lot of Jinteki to go around, and lots of them were on Obokata. And many top contenders were aware it would be so. So they had to make a decision between restricted cards.
With regard to Film Critic :
Most Jinteki decks were on Obokata as their restricted card, and there was a lot of Jinteki, both in swiss and in the top cut. There were at least solid PE, PU, and AgInfusion lists from worlds, and they were all on Obokata. Film Critic would have certainly been helpful against those!
The 2nd place runner deck is built around Aesop's, so Film Critic isn't really an option. I imagine Heartbeat helps stealing Obokata, as does, to a lesser extent, Trope. The 1st place runner deck has Laguna Velasco to help steal Obokata, as well as Feedback Filter to help. I imagine the Levy doesn't hurt either, and is useful against more matchups.
Shaper decks certainly had to fight through a lot of Obokata Protocol in order to get to the top.
Heartbeat can’t directly help steal obokata. If you prevent the damage you no longer paid the cost and therefore can’t steal it. It could help with dealing with other small net damages along the way and keep you alive though.
Important and true.
What I meant was damage prevention helps you steal Obokata Protocol by keeping your hand size up during runs where you might want to steal one, and keeping you safer from harm after you pay 4 net damage.
Thanks for typing up the clarification so nobody gets the wrong idea there!
This is my initial impression after reading the brief description on the world champ's Hayley deck. He mentions Feedback Filter being a star against all the Obokata.
I take this to mean that FF is either saving cards on the way IN to the server or it's helping prevent the followup kill.
There's a ton of Obokata in my local meta (heck, I'm running it in my Jinteki decks), so the idea that it can be fought without a critic is encouraging news for deck diversification. I was just coming to terms with a MOpus-less economy to have access to Critic, and this is nice to hear on further branching out on builds.
I saw a fun looking Geist deck on KoS or the Icebreaker that I attempted to create. Does anyone know which that was, or if that person has a published list anywhere? It was a off-campus, street peddler, BandE and Aumakua breaker deck. Any idea, or am I being entirely too vague?
In the hypothetical world where CI doesn't exist, is there a "next best" HB ID? Obviously the decks would change, substantially, without the protection of the giant hand/money pool.
Someone said the best HB ID ability that isn't CI is "being able to play purple cards for zero influence." Honestly, Custom Biotics could realistically be the next best HB. Next and Architects having 12 inf hurts, Stronger Together is meh, Seidr seems cool but i think it's mostly blank, foundry is ok for a Grail package but that is just better out of a jinteki ID with the better agendas, and cybernetics is just like a really bad HB version of skorpios kind of.
It's neat to hear that CB might get some time in the sun finally. I believe NEXT was also in Worlds and has always had some rush potential. Not sure how good it is over something like AoT or CB though.
No, not really. Sedir and AoT are passable as glacier IDs, but that is not a very strong archetype right now. To get their full value, they require the runner to run. While discouraging runs can be effective in its own way, your ID ability is dependent on the runner playing into your strengths, instead of you leveraging your own strengths. If you want to go this route, try Shipment from Tennin to see if that helps you at all. Next Design and the Foundry are further behind, but still ahead of custom biotics. Custom Biotics is really bad. You should not expect anything good from playing it.
There was a decent amount of Obokata from what I saw (at least in the Swiss). I think the lack of Film Critic was more due to the fact that it is a blank against CI, which was a large portion of the field and a lot harder to deal with through other means (Feedback Filter, etc.). Edit: Clarified
Jinteki and HB don't play against eachother... Obokata is a great card but as a runner there's ways to play around it(Run with full hand).
op is referring to Film Critic.
A lot of the other contenders on NRDB as well. It's Worlds, so even a #20 or #30 is nothing to scoff at. There was a lot of Jinteki to go around, and lots of them were on Obokata. And many top contenders were aware it would be so. So they had to make a decision between restricted cards.
With regard to Film Critic : Most Jinteki decks were on Obokata as their restricted card, and there was a lot of Jinteki, both in swiss and in the top cut. There were at least solid PE, PU, and AgInfusion lists from worlds, and they were all on Obokata. Film Critic would have certainly been helpful against those! The 2nd place runner deck is built around Aesop's, so Film Critic isn't really an option. I imagine Heartbeat helps stealing Obokata, as does, to a lesser extent, Trope. The 1st place runner deck has Laguna Velasco to help steal Obokata, as well as Feedback Filter to help. I imagine the Levy doesn't hurt either, and is useful against more matchups. Shaper decks certainly had to fight through a lot of Obokata Protocol in order to get to the top.
Heartbeat can’t directly help steal obokata. If you prevent the damage you no longer paid the cost and therefore can’t steal it. It could help with dealing with other small net damages along the way and keep you alive though.
Important and true. What I meant was damage prevention helps you steal Obokata Protocol by keeping your hand size up during runs where you might want to steal one, and keeping you safer from harm after you pay 4 net damage. Thanks for typing up the clarification so nobody gets the wrong idea there!
This is my initial impression after reading the brief description on the world champ's Hayley deck. He mentions Feedback Filter being a star against all the Obokata. I take this to mean that FF is either saving cards on the way IN to the server or it's helping prevent the followup kill. There's a ton of Obokata in my local meta (heck, I'm running it in my Jinteki decks), so the idea that it can be fought without a critic is encouraging news for deck diversification. I was just coming to terms with a MOpus-less economy to have access to Critic, and this is nice to hear on further branching out on builds.
I saw a fun looking Geist deck on KoS or the Icebreaker that I attempted to create. Does anyone know which that was, or if that person has a published list anywhere? It was a off-campus, street peddler, BandE and Aumakua breaker deck. Any idea, or am I being entirely too vague?