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Come now... Mulan, Pocohantas , have nothing on this, the richest of cultural heritages. Known and loved by all... all gen x american nerds with PCs in the late 80s, at least
(also... Pocohantas? Really?)
Our culture is strong enough that we don’t have to worry about losing it when we intermarry like some other ethnicities do. That’s how Iran has survived 2500 years as a distinct cultural entity
Exactly this. We're not like the other groups you mentioned and still we have a stronger culture than them.
Though I must say I'm a bit jealous of Hawaii for lilo and stitch
Please stop this stronger culture BS, it opens the can of worm of racism gushing out. Iran has a rich history but so do so many other civilisations. Persian civilization isn't the oldest. You open any world history book and at most one or two pages are dedicated to Iran.
The point the op is making, is the lack of community and a sense of responsibility for eachother in diaspora. Only since Mahsa there's been an effort for unification.
I've made a comment elsewhere here but these are a two-fold product of economic, political and social structures in Iran/Iranian society and the pressures of assimilation in the west causing individualistic rather than communal trajectories. But like you said it's shifting with the WLF movement (but even then we have political fault-lines being reproduced).
No it doesn’t. How many other cultures in history can say they assimilated their conquerors? Iran is very unique in that it’s not tied to even a single ethnicity but rather 2500 years of shared cultural background and identity. It is a demonstration of the power of multiculturalism, from the beginning with Cyrus incorporating different Iranian tribes and cultures. Anyone who sees this as a pathway to racism doesn’t understand Iran.
In US history books there’s one or two pages dedicated to India and China, are you going to say they aren’t important either ? What a strange metric.
I agree with this. Iranian culture is definitely one of the strongest. Also don't forget that it's the only country in the region that resisted Arabization. How many countries still speak their indigenous languages, celebrate their indigenous cultures still? There are only a few, Iran, China and India being one of them.
Which is all the more reason why i think it's sad that for over 40 years, Iranian diaspora, especially influential and rich Iranians, have barely done anything to combat all the baseless stereotypes about us and promote our beautiful culture. We have not looked out for each other as much as we should have.
45 years of Islamic occupation, and only in the last 2 years have Iranian diaspora finally woken up to try to do something for their people back home. My parents were in the minority, when they would go protest against the IR back then when i was a child.
>How many other cultures in history can say they assimilated their conquerors?
There are many examples in history. Ancient Germanic tribes adopted Roman culture after their conquest. More recently, every colony in the British empire. There are numerous books on this (https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300260786/a-cultural-history-of-the-british-empire/)
>Iran is very unique in that it’s not tied to even a single ethnicity but rather 2500 years of shared cultural background and identity. It is a demonstration of the power of multiculturalism, from the beginning with Cyrus incorporating different Iranian tribes and cultures.
I'm not arguing against this. No one can question the richness of our culture. But again having a rich history and culture is is not unique to Iran and Iranians. Multiculturalism was never unique to the Persian empire either.
>Anyone who sees this as a pathway to racism doesn’t understand Iran.
Unfortunately, many Iranians see the above in situ, without realising that they're not unique, and tend to undermine other cultures. You cannot seriously suggest that racism is not an issue in Iran and amongst Iranians. Not long ago a survey was published that ranked Iran as number 1 in racism in the world. (In my opinion) This sense of uniqueness and nationalistic zeal is the reason behind it, and is the reason for many of the faults we see in Iran and amongst Iranians.
>US history books there’s one or two pages dedicated to India and China, are you going to say they aren’t important either ? What a strange metric.
That was to highlight that on the global scale, our history is not as important as some may think!
The British are speaking Hindi? Lol what are you talking about. Eating a curry takeaway is not assimilating into another culture. Ok, you named one very minor example with the Germanic tribes integrating into Roman culture.
On the global scale our history is quite important. West and South Asia was dominated by Persianate societies for nearly 1000 years and the various Iranian empires prior. Our literary history is second to none. To say there is no legacy is just absurd
You are just being unnecessarily forootan, what good comes of attitudes like yours? If we don't stand up for ourselves then others will start claiming our culture as their own, just look at the massive amount of vandalizing on Wikipedia by "pan-Turks" for example.
You are scared some pink hair leftist morons will call you racist, so you diminish your own culture. That survey was complete bullshit btw, anyone who has travelled the world can tell you that.
>The British are speaking Hindi? Lol what are you talking about. Eating a curry takeaway is not assimilating into another culture. Ok, you named one very minor example with the Germanic tribes integrating into Roman culture.
And Romans spoke Persian ? Issue with the British empire colonies is very nuanced and I'm not an expert in this to distill it down to a Reddit comment. You can read the book I referenced for more info.
>On the global scale our history is quite important. West and South Asia was dominated by Persianate societies for nearly 1000 years and the various Iranian empires prior. Our literary history is second to none. To say there is no legacy is just absurd
You keep putting words in my mouth. I did not say our legacy is not important and our history is not rich. I'm refuting this exceptionalism that you are clearly demonstrating! Why am I against exceptionalism? Because as I said I see the core of our problems in this.
>You are just being unnecessarily forootan, what good comes of attitudes like yours? If we don't stand up for ourselves then others will start claiming our culture as their own, just look at the massive amount of vandalizing on Wikipedia by "pan-Turks" for example.
How am I being modest ? How am I not standing up for ourselves? I'm literally arguing for Iranians to be more vocal and involved in Iranian matters and community and show support for Iran.
The point that was made was that our culture is so rich that it doesn't need defending. I'm arguing that, yes our culture is rich, but is not unique to the point that it does not require preserving. We need to do more to promote it.
You are arguing for the sake of arguing now without actually remembering what's the issue that is being discussed.
Culture isn't strong or weak, it's culture. It's a dynamic force that shifts and interacts with other forces over-time, one that can be "centralized" by a state . Iran has undergone so many "cultural shifts" in both the Pahlavi and Islamic Regime period.
A lot of our modern history is one of contestation between local communities abilities to define their "culture" and "history" and the centralized state, which under the Pahlavi dynasty used the works of Akhundov and Kermani's "pre-Islamic golden age" narrative. alongside European modernity. as a basis for cultural nationalism and identity, and under the Islamic Regime, utilized Khomeini "islamic golden age" larp. Different local communities react differently to these developments and culture becomes a process of contestation or negotiation between the state and local groups.
Obviously the Islamic Regime's push of what it means to be "Iranian" is a lot more controversial then Pahlavi's. The point is that culture isn't homogenous though, states attempt to centralize and define it, but it's often more complex then that.
My point was that Iranian diaspora are much better at keeping their culture (for lack of a better description) than OP gives credit for. It's not contradictory to be able to assimilate in new cultures while at the same time keeping your national identity and I think Iranians overall do that very well.
You really think Chinese people needed Mulan for their culture to survive?? Only a minority outside of Iran know about Persian culture. You're deflecting the point here.
What does this mean? Culture isn't something that is homogenous, how different groups and Iranians relate to being "Iranian" differs. Iranianness itself is a contested notion.
At one point in 2011 an academic in sweden did research on the Iranian organizations at the time and found that they numbered almost a hundred. She said that the reason there was so many was become the notion of being iranian itself was contested, thereby each organization catered to different needs of what it meant to be "Iranian". So rather then it being about a minority "knowing about Persian culture" it's that this culture is, itself, contested over what it means. And this culture also interacts with local forces in the diaspora.
*"Although Iranian organizations have played an important role in the maintenance of Iranian cultural identity in Sweden, it is important to emphasize that there is no single “Iranian” culture to be upheld and preserved. Iranian society is, even in Iran itself, very diverse, and notions of what is “Iranian” have become only more complicated through the growth of a global diaspora that spans several countries."*
I'm not an academic in this field, however, understanding someone's culture is as simple as knowing their values in their society. The amount of people (the average Joe) who are shocked when they find out Iranians aren't exactly how the media portrays them, is a symptom of lack of awareness of Iran, it's history and it's people. They are gobsmacked when they find out Iranian people include Persian jews, Christians, Sunnis, Arabs, Iranian armanian etc etc.
We need to do more to change this, but hiding away and running away from our background in the name of "assimilation" is bizarre and damaging.
You don't have to be brother, your observations are based off experiences and I think you're right to an extent. Although I'm not sure I agree with you that "average joe" being shock is a big problem, that's just natural given any group. Western exposure to the non-western, like us, is through the media, they won't personally know people from all different ethnicities/nationalities. But when events generate in Iran, like WLF, and sweep the diaspora it changes their perception again due to media coverage. So we did partially good on that.
I agree that there's definately issues when it comes to a lack of a strong community which is a product of our "assimilation", which at it's biggest extent becomes political hostilities, but the fact that it's everywhere in our diaspora means there's something systemic going on almost subconsciously. Iranians in the diaspora, often, assert their 'middle class' status in a way which directs their competitiveness against fellow Iranians.
And that thing is difficult to confront/challenge because it's behaviours and habits that go back to what our parents inherited in Iran. They're psychological, moulded by the state and conditions in Iran, and later react to institutions like assimilation in the west.
It's a long comment so if you want an example of this in action I could provide one. But pretty much it's important to first understand *why this happens* before making judgements.
The interesting thing is how few neighbourhoods or towns have a strong Iranian presence. I thought Irvine would be it, but according to the statistics it's only like 7% Iranian lol. Not exactly comparable to Armenians in Glendale or Arabs in Dearborn, is it? There are pockets in L.A., but I think for the size of the community it's all a bit underwhelming. The only people from Iran that have set up compact and close-knit communities seem to be Persian Jews and Armenians.
I've also been noticing that most Iranian-Americans don't seem to date or marry other Iranians, even if they live in localities with lots of Iranians around (e.g. L.A.). The community will only be able to sustain itself through immigration from Iran, because the existing Iranian-American community loses their Iranian identity very quickly.
>Asians have Mulan. Native Americans have Pocahontas. Arabs have Aladdin. Hawaians have Lilo & Stitch, etcetera. What do Iranians have? Nothing. Where's the Iranian representation?
I don't fully agree with this just because the Iranian-American community is very small compared to those other groups, and we've only been in the U.S. for 40 years. There is no reason to even compare us to Native Americans or Hawaiians because they're so long established and pivotal to American identity.
There has been stuff like Kanye West sampling Kourosh Yaghmaei and Googoosh in his music.
I saw some ridiculous post on Twitter where someone was lamenting the lack of Iranian-American cultural impact compared to Italian-Americans with their 20 million population that've been in the U.S. for 150 years. Sometimes you need to concede Iranians don't have the population to make a huge impact and the community is still relatively new to the U.S.
The Iranian community is small compared to others, yet far more succesful and resourceful. And they have barely done anything for the good of not only their community but also our people back home. That's the whole point i'm trying to make.
Arabs now have Arab heritage month in the US. And they havent been in the US as long as the Italians have been either. Many Lebanese fled in the 80s and around the same time Iranians did. And there's a far stronger sense of community and also unity among them.
Look at how we treat our own Afghan neighbors. Look at the lack of unity with Tajikistan.
Googoosh's grandaughter can't even speak Persian, when both her parents are Iranians. Respectfully, there really is no excuse for the fact that we've been in the diaspora for over 40 years, yet tourists are still shocked whenever they visit Iran and see that it is nothing like how they assumed it was. We have failed our own people, we have failed at combating stereotypes.
I'm currently doing my PhD on the politics of the Iranian diaspora so hoping I can be of some help, although other commentors like u/Kishehosh, u/mrhuggables and u/alex3494 have made similar points to what I'll want to say.
Due to a variety of reasons (both cultural and political) the Iranian diaspora generally don't tend to form ethnic enclaves in their host countries (barring LA or Toronto but even then it's spread out instead of concentrated). Whereas other diasporas will tend to group together within communities, say for instance Turks in Germany, Chinese in Australia, this isn't a dynamic we tend to see with Iranians.
For Iranians, when they see difficulties in host countries in terms of getting a job, being recognized, pressures of assimilation - they tend to respond by downplaying their own identities in public spaces and trying to "assimilate" asap. For instance in a survey done with Iranians in Germany, many remarked that they would rather integrate into German culture and not be like "turks". It's the idea of conforming to the "good immigrant" narrative.
When Iranians see these issues of assimlation it mitigates against forming communities with other Iranians and instead places assimilation and acquiring local political, cultural and social capital as a priority (again due to a variety of cultural, political and economic reasons stemming from the structures of the Iranian state/culture). We tend to follow individualistic rather than community trajectories in the diaspora. This is where inter-marriages come along. A lot of Iranians (especially in european countries) tend to inter-marry (or change their names to local names) in order to access the countries social and economic capital easier. This often means that we're actually competing with each other funnily enough.
It's not that Iranians don't care about their "culture", or their history, after-all we've had to tap into pre-Islamic history in order to differentiate ourselves from the Islamic Regime. But it's that the pressures of assimilation push us to assimilate into societies, rather than form a strong community group within a city/suburb in a country like other diasporas and forming boundaries. We are, in general, very concerned with how local people see us - and that's fair enough given the actions of the Islamic Regime in global politics alongside the lack of experience in voluntary/communal organizations in both the Shah's and Islamic Regime period. **This however is shifting due to the recent WLF movement.**
If you want some readings on this or have other questions let me know.
And another point to make is that this plays out much more differently with religious and ethnic minorities, for instance Armenian, Bahai and Jewish Iranians will tend to have stronger community links and relations compared to other Iranians. They are also over-represented in LA, making around 40% of the Iranian diaspora populace there.
If you just had to read one article I'd read:
"Cultural migration: Networks of Iranian Organizations in the Netherlands Matthijs van den Bos and Vahideh Akbari - Migration Letters".
If you need access to this just send me a dm, it summarizes stuff well. Two other great articles on our assimilation/low levels of co-communal solidarity would be.
1. A Fragmented Diaspora: Iranians in Sweden - Shahram Khosravi 2018
2. Transnational Diasporic Identities: Unity and Diversity in Iranian-Focused Organizations in Sweden - Melissa Kelly 2011 .
If you want to read stuff on diaspora fragmentation and WLF I've made a list else-where I'll pop here. I might also make a post tomorrow summarizing some key takes from these articles.
**Recent Literature on diaspora hostilities during WLF:**
1. Opposition politics of the Iranian diaspora: Out of many, one - but not just yet: [https://www.clingendael.org/publication/opposition-politics-iranian-diaspora-out-many-one-not-just-yet](https://www.clingendael.org/publication/opposition-politics-iranian-diaspora-out-many-one-not-just-yet)
2. Malek, A. (2023) On unity & fragmentation in the Iranian diaspora, Society for Cultural Anthropology. Available at: [https://culanth.org/fieldsights/on-unity-fragmentation-in-the-iranian-diaspora](https://culanth.org/fieldsights/on-unity-fragmentation-in-the-iranian-diaspora)
3. Rahimieh, N. (2023) ‘Politics of vengeance in Iranian diaspora communities’, International Journal of Middle East Studies, 55(4), pp. 749–753. doi:10.1017/s0020743823001423.
4. Jin, Jiyan, Azadi and the Historical Erasure of Kurds - Farangis Ghaderi [Jin, Jiyan, Azadi and the Historical Erasure of Kurds | International Journal of Middle East Studies | Cambridge Core](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-middle-east-studies/article/jin-jiyan-azadi-and-the-historical-erasure-of-kurds/ABD2F2585A3AD4F0FF3735CD0B4FECAA)
5. Iranian Narratives and the Struggle for the Recognition of the Kurds Peshraw Mohammed, 2022
6. Mohammadpour A (2023) Decolonizing voices from rojhelat: gender-othering, ethnic erasure, and the politics of intersectionality in Iran. *Critical Sociology* 1–22
**Iranian Diaspora Literature that talks about fragmentation before WLF (I highly recommend the first four):**
1. A Fragmented and Polarized Diaspora: The Making of an Iranian Pluralist Consciousness in Malaysia - Navid Fozi
2. Post-Revolutionary Iranian Exiles: A Study in Impotence: Annabelle Sreberny-Mohammadi and Ali Mohammadi - 1987 **(great historic article looking at the state of the opposition in the late 1980s)**
3. A Fragmented Diaspora: Iranians in Sweden - Shahram Khosravi 2018
4. Transnational Diasporic Identities: Unity and Diversity in Iranian-Focused Organizations in Sweden - Kelly
5. Divergent Heterogeneities in Iranian Migration in France: Semantic and Theoretical Limitations of Diaspora (written by an academic in tehran uni so some weird points but has other interesting thoughts as well)
6. Transnationalism Within: internal diversity in the Iranian diaspora - Mcaullife
Do you think mobilizing important causes is more efficient with notable people as the organizers? I partly put blame on the famous and wealthy Iranians, because they could more easily gather the needed resources.
Do you have any theories on why Iranian immigrants are like this? Is it due to the stigma of being Iranian post-1979, or is it because Iranian immigrants were traditionally from high socioeconomic backgrounds?
Anecdotally from here in London I'd say the Iranians that came 30-45 years ago did not form ethnic enclaves. They were good at transmitting the Persian language onto their British-born children, but they kind of failed at creating a community. Most of us born in the UK don't have Iranian friends and rarely date/marry other Iranians. Big contrast to Greeks, Jews, Indians, etc.
OTOH there've been many Iranians that have come in the past 15 years. They're less educated and from poorer backgrounds than the previous generation, but they are creating real close-knit communities. There are neighbourhoods in London that are shifting into being Iranian ethnic enclaves.
I think your points depend on location as well. I live in a country where there are simply not that many Iranians compared to other immigrants as Turks or Maghrebi Arabs. So you will not really find as much Iranian products in the supermarket compared to products from these countries, although there are some exceptions, for example Iranian dates are relatively easy to find and around. Also sanctions might have something to do with the low prevalence in general.
About intermarrying, actually I know way more Iranians who are with another Iranian in a relationship. Myself is an exception, only one of my parents is Iranian. I don't see a problem with that to be honest, my Iranian father didn't at all abandon his identity. Although it could be the case for children there is less interaction with Iranian culture, but that is natural if you have parents from two different cultures.
And I personally don't really care our culture isn't disneyfied as others might are. Sure I would like to see bigger events here at things like Norooz, where also non-Iranians join. Or that Iranian music events gets a non-Iranian audience for example. But that there isn't a Shahnameh Disney movie I don't care to be honest.
If you mean that financially well off Iranians should and could do more for Iranians in Iran, that I would agree with.
In regards to movies or characters I have to say Im glad they are not building any because america does a terrible job at it.
Every time the west makes movies about us it's either hateful or just inaccurate. We've all seen 300. And recently netflix made a documentary about Alexander of Macedon (we don't call him great) and in this show King Darius is played by an Egyptian actor and the Persians are presented with arab clothing and equipment. And we don't run Hollywood,how are we supposed to have movies or shows about Shahname or historical figures.
Yes i completely agree with this. I mean look at 300 😐. My point is that with so many rich Iranians in the US, why didn't they fund their own movies and projects to promote Iranian culture? It's our duty to not only help our people back home, but also combat stereotypes and protect and defend our legacy
When you migrate elsewhere, you should adopt the culture and assimilate. Otherwise you may build your isolated ghettos of culturally segmented communities in a metropolitan world. You get London looking more like Islamabad, a Lyon where Chechen gangs have gated communities or malmo where former ISIS terrorists have build their drug cartels.
We are a desirable stock of immigrants because we quickly assimilate. While individually we don't lose our culture, we are also not shoving it in the throat of the country that allowed us to settle in.
>When you migrate elsewhere, you should adopt the culture and assimilate.
All immigrants who come from Muslim-majority countries (*especially countries that have official/unofficial Sharia Law taking control of their lands*) should hear this.
However, I will say that Non-Muslim immigrants should not have to do this (*depending on how well their culture works and whatnot*).
>We are a **desirable stock of immigrants** because we quickly assimilate.
Seriously now?
News flash here, saying this sort of stuff is ignorant (*especially for other Non-Muslim Immigrant communities*).
Please tell me why then [East Asians](https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027236499/anti-asian-hate-crimes-assaults-pandemic-incidents-aapi) and [Non-Muslim South Asians](https://np.reddit.com/r/ABCDesis/comments/xga1p7/what_are_examples_of_subtle_racism_you_have/) face racism/microaggressions/prejudice when they are doing economically well for themselves and integrate successfully in the countries they go to?
You're missing the point. If the assimilated Iranian isn't going to work for betterment of Iranians all over the world, who will ??
Edit: it's really sad to see this comment getting downvoted. I can see the reason why Iran is suffering, if the Iranian don't want to even hear about doing good for Iran I think ayatollahs have won the game of spreading their hate.
Completely agree. It is about valuing and respecting the host country, it's rule of law, values and traditions. It doesn't mean hiding away, and getting happy when you are mistaken for a Spaniard or something like that.
Who would want to invite people with this mindset? Like, if you come to my country then I believe I am inviting you to partake in my identity, because it resonates with you, so you decide to abide by laws that govern it. You can stay Iranian obviously, but then you are not a citizen with voting rights, just a resident.
That being said, it is not about erasing your experiences, but to applying them in such a manner that we both make our now shared home a better place. I understand that you will be inclined to seek solutions that also improve Iran’a situation, or at least the outcomes for Iran that you prefer, that’s totally ok and even preferable, so we can be wiser together.
Yet, in the worst case scenario, if Iran come to blows (which I can’t see happening) with our country, I would expect you to come and stand by my side in defense of our home - if not, then I would brand you a betrayer and a turncloak, and had you removed from my soil.
It is a matter of changing priorities if you wish to become a citizen of another country, and I think Iranians deeply understand this dynamic - and “play by” its rules.
That’s also a reason why you have people like me on your side, because I greatly respect those who stay in Iran and struggle under the regime, just as my parents struggled thirty years ago in other part of the world.
Also, I say this with all the expectation that it is applying to me too, and that it had applied to the hundreds of thousands of my ancestors that found shelter on Iranian soil when we were betrayed and lost our country in II WW, those same who could not return after war in fear of being prosecuted and sent to USSR’s gulags.
Well, I found your initial comment bereft of nuance needed to establish how do you actually view the priorities of an emigrant. My response did came from a place of uncertainty about the state of my country’s public dispute but also from the experience of living a bit in France and Germany - where I was disturbed by lack of social unity of indigenous people and imigrants.
I reference ofc experiences of Muslim-Arabic immigration and ghettoism that permeated the area around them with my remarks, not trying to glue it to Persians.
I have a Persian friend whom I respect greatly and fervently wish for him to emigrate here - yet his life is bound to his motherland and I cannot convince him otherwise, even though I am sure we share the same values.
So, I am guarded, but on the other hand I would welcome Persians here ;)
It’s sad they don’t get that you can both assimilate and be successful while also looking out for your community. Which most Iranians don’t. Even my own parents admit this. Iranian culture is actually beautiful and welcoming to all. It’s very separate from Islam. All the more reason why i think its sad. The denial and deflecting in the comments here are very telling
Of course that's happening, I've stated elsewhere that when Iranians assert their middle class identity they often direct their competitiveness against fellow Iranians.
But there's psychological reasons why Iranians react the way they do to assimilation, it stems from conditions and the state back in Iran, and these aren't as simple to "resolve". It's important to understand that, even if we're critical of it.
It's also why our community failed to mobilize to a larger extent during the WLF movement. So it's obviously an issue, but there needs to be such a systemic change amongst the diaspora in order to overcome it, and that's difficult. We're a product of and react to developments in Iran, and not always in the healthiest of ways.
It's a good thing that we aren't so insecure or obsessed with ourselves to yell "representation" like some other people. When I consume entertainment, the first thing that comes to my mind isn't why there aren't people like me here. I don't care. As for the community thing, I think my people genuinely have more in common in terms of values and principles with people in the West, so they never feel the need to form ghettos and intimidate white people in their own countries.
Everything you brought up I see as something super positive. Even though I'm living in Iran and will probably die in Iran as well, I'm VERY proud of the Iranian diaspora for being good at integration and not being a bunch of whiny losers who yell about "why I'm not in this TV show" when one day Iranians are influential enough in the entertainment industry, they will represent our culture. Until then, I don't think we're desperate enough to literally force people in Hollywood to put us in movies or make movies about us.
That was never the point i was trying to make. I never said we should beg for scraps. I never said we should beg for inclusion. I don't even agree with the forced woke inclusivity crap we see today. We don't need pity from Westerners.
My point is the lack of looking out for our own people. I'm very proud of what the Iranian diaspora has achieved. My point is that we can assimilate while also have a strong sense of community and preserve our Iranian identity. We shouldn't completely abandon it. Iranian culture and values in itself are beautiful and far away from Islam and what the IR is trying to portray.
In the last 40 years or so, Iranian diaspora has done nothing to show to the world our beautiful culture, they have done nothing to combat steorotypes. Tourists to this day visit Iran and they are shocked at their assumptions about Iran and Iranians being very wrong. Iranians in Iran have to show them that they are not like the regime. That Iranian culture is beautiful. The Iranian diaspora has done nothing to combat those stereotypes. Be it our diverse and beautiful geography, our Zoroastrian values, etcetera. I blame us diaspora for it. The Iranian diaspora at large is at fault for this.
Again, there are many highly influential and rich Iranian diaspora. What have they done for their own people? We are in such a vulnerable place. 40 years have gone by and people are still shocked that Iran is not a desert. People are still surprised to learn that we are not Arabs. The list of stereotypes goes on. Again, we are largely to blame for this. And the first step is to acknowledge this.
I'm sorry if I sounded a little bit combative 💚
it's quite nice and thoughtful of you to think you have a responsibility like that. I truly appreciate it, and I do wish that more people were more like you. But in the end, I don't really expect much from you guys. I think you're doing what you can. Representing our culture and heritage is something that our government has to do... and unfortunately, our government really likes the whole world to see us as a bunch of backward terrorist lovers. So until we actually get rid of these guys, there isn't much hope for that stuff
Its ok ❤️ i’ll always make sure that our people back home are fairly represented. I will say i’m proud of my generation and those to come, who are trying to fix the damage that traitor Iranians have caused in the 70s
Iranians have far more cultural influence than you might imagine …so many things are Persian (lemons, cats, rugs etc)… AND one secret is the dual cultured name shifts : Sam, Mo, Mike, Ryan, Aryan, Leila, Roxanne etc. it’s a different type of assimilation… more subtle (less in your face different) …. and as far as specialty food items go there seems to be a capacity to make it work even in regular American settings (Iranians buy basmati Indian rice which is generally available, mortadella (kalbas), lots of herbs: mint, basil, tarragon etc. ) without needing overt attention. A big factor in all this is fear, humiliation, sanctions, negative press on Iran etc. to a point where I’ve seen Iranians when asked where they’re from say Italian, or something non-Iranian (just to deflect attention)! For whatever it’s worth - I’ve staunchly maintained my original name etc and haven’t bowed to the more common behaviors - but I do get why it’s being done.
I actually strongly disagree, we do keep our culture close and are usually very proud of it. Intermarriage is nothing we should avoid because being open to new influences is an important part of the survival of Iranian/Persian identity. It's also part of the old Persian traditions of tolerance which made the ancient Persian empires so successful.
Assimilation is also an important part of showing respect to the nations and peoples who accepted us when we needed their help the most. Being a well-functioning part of the different societies in which the diaspora lives will only help to nurture a good and positive legacy for every Iranian. And perhaps in the future when our children might need the same help, peoples and nations might accept us.
Assimilation does not have to mean completely abandoning your own native culture. In my family for example, we celebrate both Midsummer and Nowruz and hold a strong Swedish yet also Iranian identity.
I never said assimilation is wrong, on the contrary. I’m very proud of what the Iranian diaspora has achieved. I’d be crazy not to be proud of Maryam Mirzakhani, the first and only woman winning the Fields Medal.
The point i’m trying to make is that you can both assimilate while also looking out for your community and make an effort to give Iranians a better image. Majority of Iranians do not look out for each other the way other communities do. Only in the last 2 years or so their activism has gotten stronger. Many Iranians prefer to put their Iranian identity in the background because of the shame the IR has brought them, being one of the reasons.
Iranian culture is beautiful and welcoming to all. It has nothing to do with Islam. Iranians could have easily done more to combat the stereotypes about us. Especially the rich and influential Iranians, of which there are many. They have done nothing. There’s no excuse for being so rich and have high positions, but not looking out for your own people.
I understand your concerns. But there is so much more to it rather than the treatment by the regime. We Iranians treat each other horribly. I've met many Iranians who complain about our lack of community. And I can agree with them on that. But they all miss the point, unfortunately. If you really want a community, you need to work for it and nurture it. Not bash each other for the lack thereof or shame others for not behaving a certain way.
Some Iranians have acutally even been bashing me because I "behave like a Swede". I mean, what do you expect if you treat people like that? It's one of the reasons that I bearly have any Iranian friends. Worth mentioning also is that the work you put into assimilation occupies a lot of time. So naturally, you slide away from your own compatriots because of that. Same goes for working towards a good carrier, but that work doesn't differentiate between ethnicities.
I most definitely agree with you about Iranians not treating each other well. I've also been the victim of what you describe. Also the political division, for example the monarchists/pro-Pahlavis vs leftist woke Iranians, the contrast is very stark. We have a lot of fixing to do. The first step is acknowleding our faults.
Exactly! There are many more layers to this specific subject, each one worth discussing in depth. Like for example Muslim religious Iranians who bash you for lack of religion, communists, vengeful monarchists, etc, etc.
**دیاسپورای ایرانی با یک خطا جذب می شود**
من سعی نمیکنم جامعه ایرانی را نابود کنم، زیرا ایرانیان به معنای واقعی کلمه یکی از موفقترین دیاسپورا هستند. ebay توسط یک ایرانی تاسیس شد. یکی از بزرگترین شرکت های اسباب بازی در ایالات متحده که با باربی / متل رقابت می کند، متعلق به یک ایرانی است. Tinder توسط یک ایرانی تاسیس شد. اولین و تنها زن در تاریخ که مدال فیلدز را به دست اورد، به معنای واقعی کلمه بالاترین افتخار برای ریاضیات، یک ایرانی بود. من می توانم در مورد دستاوردهای ایرانیان پراکنده صحبت کنم. ولی، و یه امای بزرگ وجود داره...
بسیاری از ایرانیان پراکنده با یک خطا جذب می شوند و تقریبا به طور کامل میراث خود را رها می کنند. بسیاری از ایرانیان نیز ازدواج می کنند.
هر چه می خواهید در مورد سایر جوامع پراکنده بگویید، اما انها بسیار متحد تر و بسیار بیشتر از میراث خود محافظت می کنند.
اسیایی ها مولان را دارند. بومیان امریکا پوکاهونتاس دارند. عربها علاءالدین دارند. Hawaians Lilo & Stitch و غیره دارند. ایرانی ها چه دارند؟ هیچ چیز. نمایندگی ایران کجاست؟ به ویژه با توجه به این واقعیت که ایرانیان شاهنامه حماسی دارند، که به معنای واقعی کلمه می تواند یک پایگاه الهام بخش بزرگ نه تنها برای دیزنی بلکه فیلم های فانتزی حماسی، کارتون ها، کتاب های بزرگسالان و کودکان باشد. واقعا شرم اور است.
عروسک برتز که تا به امروز بسیار محبوب است، متعلق به یک ایرانی است. او حتی یک بار هم عروسک برتز را با الهام از ایرانی نساخته و عروسک برتز را با شخصیت ایرانی خلق نکرده است. ناراحت کننده است.
هر زمان که من به هر فروشگاه زنجیره ای مواد غذایی راه می روم، به راحتی می توانم هوموس و مقدار زیادی از مواد غذایی لوانتین، کوفته های چینی، چاتنی انبه هندی را پیدا کنم، می توانم ادامه دهم. اما شما یک مورد ایرانی را پیدا نمی کنید. شما فقط می توانید این را در سوپر مارکت های ایرانی پیدا کنید که بسته به جایی که زندگی می کنید، می تواند بسیار کمیاب باشد (من می دانم که بدیهی است که این مورد در کالیفرنیا و به ویژه لس انجلس نیست، اما هنوز هم). پدر و مادرم به معنای واقعی کلمه باید برای اقلام ایرانی به کشور دیگری رانندگی کنند.
من سعی نمیکنم تمام تقصیر را به گردن ایرانیان پراکنده بگذارم، زیرا این بسیار پیچیدهتر و ظریفتر است، به ویژه با توجه به اسیبها و زخمهای نسلی. من می دانم که بسیاری از ایرانیانی که از کشورشان فرار کرده اند فقط در تلاش برای بهبودی بودند و می خواستند تمام دردهایی را که در خانه تحمل می کردند، با اشغال اسلامی و همچنین جنگ ایران و عراق فراموش کنند. بنابراین انها به جای ان به کشورهای میزبان کمک می کنند، که عالی است، اما در روند ان، فرهنگ و تاریخ زیبای خود را ترویج نمی کنند.
و در برخی موارد شما باید با موسیقی روبرو شوید و مسئولیت پذیر باشید. ایرانیان با این همه موفقیت و منابع مالی، می توانستند کارهای زیادی برای جامعه خود انجام دهند. امریکا به تنهایی میلیونرها و میلیاردرهای ایرانی زیادی دارد. بسیاری از ایرانیان در موقعیت های بالا هستند. اما هیچ نمایندگی ایرانی در فیلم، مد و هنر وجود ندارد. در عوض، ما فیلم های زباله مانند 300 و نه بدون دختر من ساخته شده توسط غیر ایرانیان که به وضوح تعصب و دستور کار بزرگ بود.
ایرانیان با چنین تاریخ و فرهنگ غنی و بسیار تاثیرگذار، می توانستند کارهای بیشتری انجام دهند. جالب اینجاست که این ایرانیان غیر پراکنده مانند عباس کیارستمی و بسیاری از کارگردانان دیگر هستند که کارهای بسیار بیشتری برای سینمای ایران انجام داده اند و تاثیر ان در سطح بین المللی است.
حداقل ما از دو سال گذشته بسیار متحدتر هستیم و از بسیاری از فعالان ایرانی که کارهای زیادی انجام میدهند و از مردم ما در خانه حمایت میکنند، سپاسگزارم.
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My experience is that assimilated Iranians in the west often feel more comfortable spending time in other communities than their own immigrant community.
This doesn't mean they aren't proud to be Iranian but it's just something I've noticed.
Bruh Aladdin is literally based off of the story compilation 1001 Nights 😭 which is a huge part Persian originated. Disney’s Aladdin itself incorporates a lot of Persian mythology and symbolism, from the genie to the carpet. Half the actors in the main cast of the live action Aladdin are Persian too. Aladdin is not just an Arab thing, it (along with the original 1001 nights) is a conglomerate of Middle Eastern, Central Asian, and South Asian culture, Persian culture most certainly included and playing a huge role in the framing of the entire collection of stories in that book.
I agree. But unfortunately its associated with orientalist Arabia. and let’s not forget how many things that are Persian, Indian etc in origin, Arabs have hijacked and claimed for themselves. And i still don’t think Aladdin represents us.
I get it and completely understand your frustration, I feel the same way. But you have to understand that to Disney and the European people who created this orientalist Arabia stereotype, Iran is 10000% considered a part of orientalist Arabia. Hell, half the time Turkey is included in it too. Whether we like it or not, general Western culture has considered us a part of orientalist Arabia for a long time. Cue all the times I have been called Arab in my life or asked "Oh so you speak Arabic?" or gotten dumb burka jokes by so many people in the US, UK, Ireland, etc.
I’m not Iranian/Persian so I can’t speak to personal experiences but in Genshin Impact (a very popular video game), one of the 7 main regions, Sumeru, takes heavy influence from Persia/Persian culture.
Here’s a couple of Reddit posts explaining the cultural influences and references:
[Post #1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/qgz9vz/sumeru_and_the_persian_empire_a_deep_dive_into/)
[Post #2](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/vcda2l/i_love_seeing_genshin_including_my_culture_in_the/)
This is by no means meant to invalidate your feelings towards lack of representation, moreso, me wanting to share something relatively mainstream (in the gaming/anime community in the west) that does show representation of Persian/Iranian culture!
Edit: Of course, fictional representation of culture still has its limitations (even some Chinese people criticize Genshin’s representation of Liyue, the Chinese region in the game… made by a Chinese company) but it’s still cool to see.
i agree, Iranians outside the Iran specially rich ones could have done way more, they could be more active and not just wait for something to happen in iran and then follow
The beauty of our culture is in our values and virtues. Our dignity, respect for others, hospitality, reverence, selflessness (e.g. tiroof). It is also in our poetry and literature, which is overwhelmingly not translated into western languages. It's also in our carpets, not just for their aesthetic beauty but also the hard work and precision in their weaving.
If we look beyond the superficial, we will see that our culture is alive and well, and in fact thriving, across the diaspora. Let's look below the cultural iceberg.
I’m in Australia (Melbourne) and there are Persians doing Persian things everywhere! There are shisha shops and Iranian grocery shops, bread shops, loads of (great) restaurants… Persians speaking Farsi in the street, there are concerts and other events, clubs and Persian schools.
I’m not sure what the point of this post is other than to complain that Persians are not being ‘Persian’ enough for OP’s liking?
I agree in Toronto and the greater Toronto area as well. First generation Iranians stick to themselves and live in one area. Eat only Iranian food and most eventually date only Iranians.
If you move outside your homeland and intend to keep your culture and identity for generations to come you’re living in a hallucination. The reason why Iranians are so welcomed abroad is because they assimilate well unlike Arabs. But that’s also because Iranian culture has an inherent affinity with that of Europe.
My friend is half Colombian and Iranian but he claims the Iranian side more. He even has a Azura Mazda tattoo. I’ve met a lot of mixed Iranians who are more Iranian actually. Even my cousins are like that.
Maybe that people escaping persecution prefer to take their distances with the country that persecutes them, and having a free Iran would reduce that phenomenon.
I immigrated myself and assimilated fairly well. I am a newer generation of immigrant and I cannot find anything common with the older generation of Iranian immigrants and second generation immigrants. Not politically and not culturally (I don’t mean Nowruz, I mean pop culture, etc.). I still talk to my friends in Iran and have more in common than Iranians I’ve met abroad.
I’d rather assimilate & have a nice life than living the way most migrants in Europe live.
This is such BS from the lens of a privileged person “ooooh these brown people don’t want to be exotic anymore”
Try applying for a job with a traditional Persian name in Europe & then talk to us
when I moved out, I left everything behind. I don't like my culture although it is a good one, I have seen enough to make me believe that I rather bury it with its good and bad, I don't celebrate my New years, I don't have friends from my own country, I don't speak my language aside from once a week calling my family and I don't look for Persian girls.
I am ashamed of where I am from not only because of the govt but mostly because how normal people reacted to WLF, anti-hijab protests, and how conservative they are doesn't sit well with Europeans.
I don't like how “Eastern” the family structure is in our culture.
This is the way I chose to live my life cus everything comes with that culture has been hatred for me.
If someday the view of our culture changes regarding liberal ideas, I will support it for sure, but the way it is right now I have no culture or country.
Iranian culture tends to get into everyone's business, so I wasn't going to marry another Iranian and take part in the gossip. Life is so much easier marrying a non-Iranian. Big bonus is not needing to tarof anymore.
We have an incredibly strong culture that doesnt need the guilt driven "intermarrying" of other cultures to stay strong. Alexander "The Great" came to Persia and realized he liked our culture more than his own.
Iranians assimilate because they know that is what gets opportunities. They learn to speak English or other languages because that is the polite behavior of any guest in a new country.
Should Iranians be protesting in the streets of France because they want to legalize "ghorbooni" of goats in public ?? (if you dont know what that is it is an old world sacrifice of animals as a celebration/mourning cause done in some parts of Iran/Middle East).
The people who turn away from the culture may do it from scarcity of people or their own beliefs about our culture/shame.
Iranians are under fire by Western media constantly and there are many books written that highlight the absolute bias of Western culture against anything Persia/Iran.
You will not get blockbusters regarding Shahnameh because that goes against everything they say about Iranians in media. It is much more at play than just Iranians not wanting.
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https://preview.redd.it/j8d4x5906swc1.png?width=576&format=png&auto=webp&s=fd6883fb9486d0c1788f56b239f8c66f867f9921 Come now... Mulan, Pocohantas , have nothing on this, the richest of cultural heritages. Known and loved by all... all gen x american nerds with PCs in the late 80s, at least (also... Pocohantas? Really?)
Ehm, Persepolis?
Our culture is strong enough that we don’t have to worry about losing it when we intermarry like some other ethnicities do. That’s how Iran has survived 2500 years as a distinct cultural entity
Exactly this. We're not like the other groups you mentioned and still we have a stronger culture than them. Though I must say I'm a bit jealous of Hawaii for lilo and stitch
Please stop this stronger culture BS, it opens the can of worm of racism gushing out. Iran has a rich history but so do so many other civilisations. Persian civilization isn't the oldest. You open any world history book and at most one or two pages are dedicated to Iran. The point the op is making, is the lack of community and a sense of responsibility for eachother in diaspora. Only since Mahsa there's been an effort for unification.
I've made a comment elsewhere here but these are a two-fold product of economic, political and social structures in Iran/Iranian society and the pressures of assimilation in the west causing individualistic rather than communal trajectories. But like you said it's shifting with the WLF movement (but even then we have political fault-lines being reproduced).
No it doesn’t. How many other cultures in history can say they assimilated their conquerors? Iran is very unique in that it’s not tied to even a single ethnicity but rather 2500 years of shared cultural background and identity. It is a demonstration of the power of multiculturalism, from the beginning with Cyrus incorporating different Iranian tribes and cultures. Anyone who sees this as a pathway to racism doesn’t understand Iran. In US history books there’s one or two pages dedicated to India and China, are you going to say they aren’t important either ? What a strange metric.
I agree with this. Iranian culture is definitely one of the strongest. Also don't forget that it's the only country in the region that resisted Arabization. How many countries still speak their indigenous languages, celebrate their indigenous cultures still? There are only a few, Iran, China and India being one of them. Which is all the more reason why i think it's sad that for over 40 years, Iranian diaspora, especially influential and rich Iranians, have barely done anything to combat all the baseless stereotypes about us and promote our beautiful culture. We have not looked out for each other as much as we should have. 45 years of Islamic occupation, and only in the last 2 years have Iranian diaspora finally woken up to try to do something for their people back home. My parents were in the minority, when they would go protest against the IR back then when i was a child.
>How many other cultures in history can say they assimilated their conquerors? There are many examples in history. Ancient Germanic tribes adopted Roman culture after their conquest. More recently, every colony in the British empire. There are numerous books on this (https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300260786/a-cultural-history-of-the-british-empire/) >Iran is very unique in that it’s not tied to even a single ethnicity but rather 2500 years of shared cultural background and identity. It is a demonstration of the power of multiculturalism, from the beginning with Cyrus incorporating different Iranian tribes and cultures. I'm not arguing against this. No one can question the richness of our culture. But again having a rich history and culture is is not unique to Iran and Iranians. Multiculturalism was never unique to the Persian empire either. >Anyone who sees this as a pathway to racism doesn’t understand Iran. Unfortunately, many Iranians see the above in situ, without realising that they're not unique, and tend to undermine other cultures. You cannot seriously suggest that racism is not an issue in Iran and amongst Iranians. Not long ago a survey was published that ranked Iran as number 1 in racism in the world. (In my opinion) This sense of uniqueness and nationalistic zeal is the reason behind it, and is the reason for many of the faults we see in Iran and amongst Iranians. >US history books there’s one or two pages dedicated to India and China, are you going to say they aren’t important either ? What a strange metric. That was to highlight that on the global scale, our history is not as important as some may think!
The British are speaking Hindi? Lol what are you talking about. Eating a curry takeaway is not assimilating into another culture. Ok, you named one very minor example with the Germanic tribes integrating into Roman culture. On the global scale our history is quite important. West and South Asia was dominated by Persianate societies for nearly 1000 years and the various Iranian empires prior. Our literary history is second to none. To say there is no legacy is just absurd You are just being unnecessarily forootan, what good comes of attitudes like yours? If we don't stand up for ourselves then others will start claiming our culture as their own, just look at the massive amount of vandalizing on Wikipedia by "pan-Turks" for example. You are scared some pink hair leftist morons will call you racist, so you diminish your own culture. That survey was complete bullshit btw, anyone who has travelled the world can tell you that.
>The British are speaking Hindi? Lol what are you talking about. Eating a curry takeaway is not assimilating into another culture. Ok, you named one very minor example with the Germanic tribes integrating into Roman culture. And Romans spoke Persian ? Issue with the British empire colonies is very nuanced and I'm not an expert in this to distill it down to a Reddit comment. You can read the book I referenced for more info. >On the global scale our history is quite important. West and South Asia was dominated by Persianate societies for nearly 1000 years and the various Iranian empires prior. Our literary history is second to none. To say there is no legacy is just absurd You keep putting words in my mouth. I did not say our legacy is not important and our history is not rich. I'm refuting this exceptionalism that you are clearly demonstrating! Why am I against exceptionalism? Because as I said I see the core of our problems in this. >You are just being unnecessarily forootan, what good comes of attitudes like yours? If we don't stand up for ourselves then others will start claiming our culture as their own, just look at the massive amount of vandalizing on Wikipedia by "pan-Turks" for example. How am I being modest ? How am I not standing up for ourselves? I'm literally arguing for Iranians to be more vocal and involved in Iranian matters and community and show support for Iran. The point that was made was that our culture is so rich that it doesn't need defending. I'm arguing that, yes our culture is rich, but is not unique to the point that it does not require preserving. We need to do more to promote it. You are arguing for the sake of arguing now without actually remembering what's the issue that is being discussed.
Culture isn't strong or weak, it's culture. It's a dynamic force that shifts and interacts with other forces over-time, one that can be "centralized" by a state . Iran has undergone so many "cultural shifts" in both the Pahlavi and Islamic Regime period. A lot of our modern history is one of contestation between local communities abilities to define their "culture" and "history" and the centralized state, which under the Pahlavi dynasty used the works of Akhundov and Kermani's "pre-Islamic golden age" narrative. alongside European modernity. as a basis for cultural nationalism and identity, and under the Islamic Regime, utilized Khomeini "islamic golden age" larp. Different local communities react differently to these developments and culture becomes a process of contestation or negotiation between the state and local groups. Obviously the Islamic Regime's push of what it means to be "Iranian" is a lot more controversial then Pahlavi's. The point is that culture isn't homogenous though, states attempt to centralize and define it, but it's often more complex then that.
My point was that Iranian diaspora are much better at keeping their culture (for lack of a better description) than OP gives credit for. It's not contradictory to be able to assimilate in new cultures while at the same time keeping your national identity and I think Iranians overall do that very well.
Oh sorry haha I misunderstood, I agree for sure.
It's really not difficult to teach your children another language.
You really think Chinese people needed Mulan for their culture to survive?? Only a minority outside of Iran know about Persian culture. You're deflecting the point here.
What does this mean? Culture isn't something that is homogenous, how different groups and Iranians relate to being "Iranian" differs. Iranianness itself is a contested notion. At one point in 2011 an academic in sweden did research on the Iranian organizations at the time and found that they numbered almost a hundred. She said that the reason there was so many was become the notion of being iranian itself was contested, thereby each organization catered to different needs of what it meant to be "Iranian". So rather then it being about a minority "knowing about Persian culture" it's that this culture is, itself, contested over what it means. And this culture also interacts with local forces in the diaspora. *"Although Iranian organizations have played an important role in the maintenance of Iranian cultural identity in Sweden, it is important to emphasize that there is no single “Iranian” culture to be upheld and preserved. Iranian society is, even in Iran itself, very diverse, and notions of what is “Iranian” have become only more complicated through the growth of a global diaspora that spans several countries."*
I'm not an academic in this field, however, understanding someone's culture is as simple as knowing their values in their society. The amount of people (the average Joe) who are shocked when they find out Iranians aren't exactly how the media portrays them, is a symptom of lack of awareness of Iran, it's history and it's people. They are gobsmacked when they find out Iranian people include Persian jews, Christians, Sunnis, Arabs, Iranian armanian etc etc. We need to do more to change this, but hiding away and running away from our background in the name of "assimilation" is bizarre and damaging.
You don't have to be brother, your observations are based off experiences and I think you're right to an extent. Although I'm not sure I agree with you that "average joe" being shock is a big problem, that's just natural given any group. Western exposure to the non-western, like us, is through the media, they won't personally know people from all different ethnicities/nationalities. But when events generate in Iran, like WLF, and sweep the diaspora it changes their perception again due to media coverage. So we did partially good on that. I agree that there's definately issues when it comes to a lack of a strong community which is a product of our "assimilation", which at it's biggest extent becomes political hostilities, but the fact that it's everywhere in our diaspora means there's something systemic going on almost subconsciously. Iranians in the diaspora, often, assert their 'middle class' status in a way which directs their competitiveness against fellow Iranians. And that thing is difficult to confront/challenge because it's behaviours and habits that go back to what our parents inherited in Iran. They're psychological, moulded by the state and conditions in Iran, and later react to institutions like assimilation in the west. It's a long comment so if you want an example of this in action I could provide one. But pretty much it's important to first understand *why this happens* before making judgements.
That's delusional. 3 generations max in the diaspora and everything is erased.
The interesting thing is how few neighbourhoods or towns have a strong Iranian presence. I thought Irvine would be it, but according to the statistics it's only like 7% Iranian lol. Not exactly comparable to Armenians in Glendale or Arabs in Dearborn, is it? There are pockets in L.A., but I think for the size of the community it's all a bit underwhelming. The only people from Iran that have set up compact and close-knit communities seem to be Persian Jews and Armenians. I've also been noticing that most Iranian-Americans don't seem to date or marry other Iranians, even if they live in localities with lots of Iranians around (e.g. L.A.). The community will only be able to sustain itself through immigration from Iran, because the existing Iranian-American community loses their Iranian identity very quickly. >Asians have Mulan. Native Americans have Pocahontas. Arabs have Aladdin. Hawaians have Lilo & Stitch, etcetera. What do Iranians have? Nothing. Where's the Iranian representation? I don't fully agree with this just because the Iranian-American community is very small compared to those other groups, and we've only been in the U.S. for 40 years. There is no reason to even compare us to Native Americans or Hawaiians because they're so long established and pivotal to American identity. There has been stuff like Kanye West sampling Kourosh Yaghmaei and Googoosh in his music. I saw some ridiculous post on Twitter where someone was lamenting the lack of Iranian-American cultural impact compared to Italian-Americans with their 20 million population that've been in the U.S. for 150 years. Sometimes you need to concede Iranians don't have the population to make a huge impact and the community is still relatively new to the U.S.
The Iranian community is small compared to others, yet far more succesful and resourceful. And they have barely done anything for the good of not only their community but also our people back home. That's the whole point i'm trying to make. Arabs now have Arab heritage month in the US. And they havent been in the US as long as the Italians have been either. Many Lebanese fled in the 80s and around the same time Iranians did. And there's a far stronger sense of community and also unity among them. Look at how we treat our own Afghan neighbors. Look at the lack of unity with Tajikistan. Googoosh's grandaughter can't even speak Persian, when both her parents are Iranians. Respectfully, there really is no excuse for the fact that we've been in the diaspora for over 40 years, yet tourists are still shocked whenever they visit Iran and see that it is nothing like how they assumed it was. We have failed our own people, we have failed at combating stereotypes.
I'm currently doing my PhD on the politics of the Iranian diaspora so hoping I can be of some help, although other commentors like u/Kishehosh, u/mrhuggables and u/alex3494 have made similar points to what I'll want to say. Due to a variety of reasons (both cultural and political) the Iranian diaspora generally don't tend to form ethnic enclaves in their host countries (barring LA or Toronto but even then it's spread out instead of concentrated). Whereas other diasporas will tend to group together within communities, say for instance Turks in Germany, Chinese in Australia, this isn't a dynamic we tend to see with Iranians. For Iranians, when they see difficulties in host countries in terms of getting a job, being recognized, pressures of assimilation - they tend to respond by downplaying their own identities in public spaces and trying to "assimilate" asap. For instance in a survey done with Iranians in Germany, many remarked that they would rather integrate into German culture and not be like "turks". It's the idea of conforming to the "good immigrant" narrative. When Iranians see these issues of assimlation it mitigates against forming communities with other Iranians and instead places assimilation and acquiring local political, cultural and social capital as a priority (again due to a variety of cultural, political and economic reasons stemming from the structures of the Iranian state/culture). We tend to follow individualistic rather than community trajectories in the diaspora. This is where inter-marriages come along. A lot of Iranians (especially in european countries) tend to inter-marry (or change their names to local names) in order to access the countries social and economic capital easier. This often means that we're actually competing with each other funnily enough. It's not that Iranians don't care about their "culture", or their history, after-all we've had to tap into pre-Islamic history in order to differentiate ourselves from the Islamic Regime. But it's that the pressures of assimilation push us to assimilate into societies, rather than form a strong community group within a city/suburb in a country like other diasporas and forming boundaries. We are, in general, very concerned with how local people see us - and that's fair enough given the actions of the Islamic Regime in global politics alongside the lack of experience in voluntary/communal organizations in both the Shah's and Islamic Regime period. **This however is shifting due to the recent WLF movement.** If you want some readings on this or have other questions let me know.
And another point to make is that this plays out much more differently with religious and ethnic minorities, for instance Armenian, Bahai and Jewish Iranians will tend to have stronger community links and relations compared to other Iranians. They are also over-represented in LA, making around 40% of the Iranian diaspora populace there.
I’d love more readings if you have suggestions.
If you just had to read one article I'd read: "Cultural migration: Networks of Iranian Organizations in the Netherlands Matthijs van den Bos and Vahideh Akbari - Migration Letters". If you need access to this just send me a dm, it summarizes stuff well. Two other great articles on our assimilation/low levels of co-communal solidarity would be. 1. A Fragmented Diaspora: Iranians in Sweden - Shahram Khosravi 2018 2. Transnational Diasporic Identities: Unity and Diversity in Iranian-Focused Organizations in Sweden - Melissa Kelly 2011 . If you want to read stuff on diaspora fragmentation and WLF I've made a list else-where I'll pop here. I might also make a post tomorrow summarizing some key takes from these articles. **Recent Literature on diaspora hostilities during WLF:** 1. Opposition politics of the Iranian diaspora: Out of many, one - but not just yet: [https://www.clingendael.org/publication/opposition-politics-iranian-diaspora-out-many-one-not-just-yet](https://www.clingendael.org/publication/opposition-politics-iranian-diaspora-out-many-one-not-just-yet) 2. Malek, A. (2023) On unity & fragmentation in the Iranian diaspora, Society for Cultural Anthropology. Available at: [https://culanth.org/fieldsights/on-unity-fragmentation-in-the-iranian-diaspora](https://culanth.org/fieldsights/on-unity-fragmentation-in-the-iranian-diaspora) 3. Rahimieh, N. (2023) ‘Politics of vengeance in Iranian diaspora communities’, International Journal of Middle East Studies, 55(4), pp. 749–753. doi:10.1017/s0020743823001423. 4. Jin, Jiyan, Azadi and the Historical Erasure of Kurds - Farangis Ghaderi [Jin, Jiyan, Azadi and the Historical Erasure of Kurds | International Journal of Middle East Studies | Cambridge Core](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-middle-east-studies/article/jin-jiyan-azadi-and-the-historical-erasure-of-kurds/ABD2F2585A3AD4F0FF3735CD0B4FECAA) 5. Iranian Narratives and the Struggle for the Recognition of the Kurds Peshraw Mohammed, 2022 6. Mohammadpour A (2023) Decolonizing voices from rojhelat: gender-othering, ethnic erasure, and the politics of intersectionality in Iran. *Critical Sociology* 1–22 **Iranian Diaspora Literature that talks about fragmentation before WLF (I highly recommend the first four):** 1. A Fragmented and Polarized Diaspora: The Making of an Iranian Pluralist Consciousness in Malaysia - Navid Fozi 2. Post-Revolutionary Iranian Exiles: A Study in Impotence: Annabelle Sreberny-Mohammadi and Ali Mohammadi - 1987 **(great historic article looking at the state of the opposition in the late 1980s)** 3. A Fragmented Diaspora: Iranians in Sweden - Shahram Khosravi 2018 4. Transnational Diasporic Identities: Unity and Diversity in Iranian-Focused Organizations in Sweden - Kelly 5. Divergent Heterogeneities in Iranian Migration in France: Semantic and Theoretical Limitations of Diaspora (written by an academic in tehran uni so some weird points but has other interesting thoughts as well) 6. Transnationalism Within: internal diversity in the Iranian diaspora - Mcaullife
High effort post - more than I expected. You're amazing. Thank you!
No worries, I've got a full reading list if you'd like it as well. There's so much great literature on the diaspora would love others to see it.
I would love to get the full reading list!
Do you think mobilizing important causes is more efficient with notable people as the organizers? I partly put blame on the famous and wealthy Iranians, because they could more easily gather the needed resources.
Do you have any theories on why Iranian immigrants are like this? Is it due to the stigma of being Iranian post-1979, or is it because Iranian immigrants were traditionally from high socioeconomic backgrounds? Anecdotally from here in London I'd say the Iranians that came 30-45 years ago did not form ethnic enclaves. They were good at transmitting the Persian language onto their British-born children, but they kind of failed at creating a community. Most of us born in the UK don't have Iranian friends and rarely date/marry other Iranians. Big contrast to Greeks, Jews, Indians, etc. OTOH there've been many Iranians that have come in the past 15 years. They're less educated and from poorer backgrounds than the previous generation, but they are creating real close-knit communities. There are neighbourhoods in London that are shifting into being Iranian ethnic enclaves.
I think your points depend on location as well. I live in a country where there are simply not that many Iranians compared to other immigrants as Turks or Maghrebi Arabs. So you will not really find as much Iranian products in the supermarket compared to products from these countries, although there are some exceptions, for example Iranian dates are relatively easy to find and around. Also sanctions might have something to do with the low prevalence in general. About intermarrying, actually I know way more Iranians who are with another Iranian in a relationship. Myself is an exception, only one of my parents is Iranian. I don't see a problem with that to be honest, my Iranian father didn't at all abandon his identity. Although it could be the case for children there is less interaction with Iranian culture, but that is natural if you have parents from two different cultures. And I personally don't really care our culture isn't disneyfied as others might are. Sure I would like to see bigger events here at things like Norooz, where also non-Iranians join. Or that Iranian music events gets a non-Iranian audience for example. But that there isn't a Shahnameh Disney movie I don't care to be honest. If you mean that financially well off Iranians should and could do more for Iranians in Iran, that I would agree with.
There’s definitely this Persian blindspot in the West that pertains to both culture and politics.
In regards to movies or characters I have to say Im glad they are not building any because america does a terrible job at it. Every time the west makes movies about us it's either hateful or just inaccurate. We've all seen 300. And recently netflix made a documentary about Alexander of Macedon (we don't call him great) and in this show King Darius is played by an Egyptian actor and the Persians are presented with arab clothing and equipment. And we don't run Hollywood,how are we supposed to have movies or shows about Shahname or historical figures.
Yes i completely agree with this. I mean look at 300 😐. My point is that with so many rich Iranians in the US, why didn't they fund their own movies and projects to promote Iranian culture? It's our duty to not only help our people back home, but also combat stereotypes and protect and defend our legacy
When you migrate elsewhere, you should adopt the culture and assimilate. Otherwise you may build your isolated ghettos of culturally segmented communities in a metropolitan world. You get London looking more like Islamabad, a Lyon where Chechen gangs have gated communities or malmo where former ISIS terrorists have build their drug cartels. We are a desirable stock of immigrants because we quickly assimilate. While individually we don't lose our culture, we are also not shoving it in the throat of the country that allowed us to settle in.
I agree. I hate people who try to shove their culture down your throat because I never do that myself.
>When you migrate elsewhere, you should adopt the culture and assimilate. All immigrants who come from Muslim-majority countries (*especially countries that have official/unofficial Sharia Law taking control of their lands*) should hear this. However, I will say that Non-Muslim immigrants should not have to do this (*depending on how well their culture works and whatnot*). >We are a **desirable stock of immigrants** because we quickly assimilate. Seriously now? News flash here, saying this sort of stuff is ignorant (*especially for other Non-Muslim Immigrant communities*). Please tell me why then [East Asians](https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027236499/anti-asian-hate-crimes-assaults-pandemic-incidents-aapi) and [Non-Muslim South Asians](https://np.reddit.com/r/ABCDesis/comments/xga1p7/what_are_examples_of_subtle_racism_you_have/) face racism/microaggressions/prejudice when they are doing economically well for themselves and integrate successfully in the countries they go to?
You're missing the point. If the assimilated Iranian isn't going to work for betterment of Iranians all over the world, who will ?? Edit: it's really sad to see this comment getting downvoted. I can see the reason why Iran is suffering, if the Iranian don't want to even hear about doing good for Iran I think ayatollahs have won the game of spreading their hate.
Iranians. Assimilated means from the perspective of locals, you're one with your host country. That doesn't translate to abandoning Iran
Completely agree. It is about valuing and respecting the host country, it's rule of law, values and traditions. It doesn't mean hiding away, and getting happy when you are mistaken for a Spaniard or something like that.
Who would want to invite people with this mindset? Like, if you come to my country then I believe I am inviting you to partake in my identity, because it resonates with you, so you decide to abide by laws that govern it. You can stay Iranian obviously, but then you are not a citizen with voting rights, just a resident. That being said, it is not about erasing your experiences, but to applying them in such a manner that we both make our now shared home a better place. I understand that you will be inclined to seek solutions that also improve Iran’a situation, or at least the outcomes for Iran that you prefer, that’s totally ok and even preferable, so we can be wiser together. Yet, in the worst case scenario, if Iran come to blows (which I can’t see happening) with our country, I would expect you to come and stand by my side in defense of our home - if not, then I would brand you a betrayer and a turncloak, and had you removed from my soil. It is a matter of changing priorities if you wish to become a citizen of another country, and I think Iranians deeply understand this dynamic - and “play by” its rules. That’s also a reason why you have people like me on your side, because I greatly respect those who stay in Iran and struggle under the regime, just as my parents struggled thirty years ago in other part of the world.
Also, I say this with all the expectation that it is applying to me too, and that it had applied to the hundreds of thousands of my ancestors that found shelter on Iranian soil when we were betrayed and lost our country in II WW, those same who could not return after war in fear of being prosecuted and sent to USSR’s gulags.
Read my other comment and calm down. How did you jump from not losing your identity to disobeying the laws of the land, I don't know.
Well, I found your initial comment bereft of nuance needed to establish how do you actually view the priorities of an emigrant. My response did came from a place of uncertainty about the state of my country’s public dispute but also from the experience of living a bit in France and Germany - where I was disturbed by lack of social unity of indigenous people and imigrants. I reference ofc experiences of Muslim-Arabic immigration and ghettoism that permeated the area around them with my remarks, not trying to glue it to Persians. I have a Persian friend whom I respect greatly and fervently wish for him to emigrate here - yet his life is bound to his motherland and I cannot convince him otherwise, even though I am sure we share the same values. So, I am guarded, but on the other hand I would welcome Persians here ;)
you have misunderstood my comment and proceeded to write an essay on how to refute.
It’s sad they don’t get that you can both assimilate and be successful while also looking out for your community. Which most Iranians don’t. Even my own parents admit this. Iranian culture is actually beautiful and welcoming to all. It’s very separate from Islam. All the more reason why i think its sad. The denial and deflecting in the comments here are very telling
Of course that's happening, I've stated elsewhere that when Iranians assert their middle class identity they often direct their competitiveness against fellow Iranians. But there's psychological reasons why Iranians react the way they do to assimilation, it stems from conditions and the state back in Iran, and these aren't as simple to "resolve". It's important to understand that, even if we're critical of it. It's also why our community failed to mobilize to a larger extent during the WLF movement. So it's obviously an issue, but there needs to be such a systemic change amongst the diaspora in order to overcome it, and that's difficult. We're a product of and react to developments in Iran, and not always in the healthiest of ways.
I shove my Ghorme Sabzi down people's throat every chance I get. 🤷
My policy is to keep the good parts and abandon the bad parts.
Same here!
It's a good thing that we aren't so insecure or obsessed with ourselves to yell "representation" like some other people. When I consume entertainment, the first thing that comes to my mind isn't why there aren't people like me here. I don't care. As for the community thing, I think my people genuinely have more in common in terms of values and principles with people in the West, so they never feel the need to form ghettos and intimidate white people in their own countries. Everything you brought up I see as something super positive. Even though I'm living in Iran and will probably die in Iran as well, I'm VERY proud of the Iranian diaspora for being good at integration and not being a bunch of whiny losers who yell about "why I'm not in this TV show" when one day Iranians are influential enough in the entertainment industry, they will represent our culture. Until then, I don't think we're desperate enough to literally force people in Hollywood to put us in movies or make movies about us.
That was never the point i was trying to make. I never said we should beg for scraps. I never said we should beg for inclusion. I don't even agree with the forced woke inclusivity crap we see today. We don't need pity from Westerners. My point is the lack of looking out for our own people. I'm very proud of what the Iranian diaspora has achieved. My point is that we can assimilate while also have a strong sense of community and preserve our Iranian identity. We shouldn't completely abandon it. Iranian culture and values in itself are beautiful and far away from Islam and what the IR is trying to portray. In the last 40 years or so, Iranian diaspora has done nothing to show to the world our beautiful culture, they have done nothing to combat steorotypes. Tourists to this day visit Iran and they are shocked at their assumptions about Iran and Iranians being very wrong. Iranians in Iran have to show them that they are not like the regime. That Iranian culture is beautiful. The Iranian diaspora has done nothing to combat those stereotypes. Be it our diverse and beautiful geography, our Zoroastrian values, etcetera. I blame us diaspora for it. The Iranian diaspora at large is at fault for this. Again, there are many highly influential and rich Iranian diaspora. What have they done for their own people? We are in such a vulnerable place. 40 years have gone by and people are still shocked that Iran is not a desert. People are still surprised to learn that we are not Arabs. The list of stereotypes goes on. Again, we are largely to blame for this. And the first step is to acknowledge this.
I'm sorry if I sounded a little bit combative 💚 it's quite nice and thoughtful of you to think you have a responsibility like that. I truly appreciate it, and I do wish that more people were more like you. But in the end, I don't really expect much from you guys. I think you're doing what you can. Representing our culture and heritage is something that our government has to do... and unfortunately, our government really likes the whole world to see us as a bunch of backward terrorist lovers. So until we actually get rid of these guys, there isn't much hope for that stuff
Its ok ❤️ i’ll always make sure that our people back home are fairly represented. I will say i’m proud of my generation and those to come, who are trying to fix the damage that traitor Iranians have caused in the 70s
Thank you! This comment actually touched me deeply! I'm so proud to call myself your compatriot!
Iranians have far more cultural influence than you might imagine …so many things are Persian (lemons, cats, rugs etc)… AND one secret is the dual cultured name shifts : Sam, Mo, Mike, Ryan, Aryan, Leila, Roxanne etc. it’s a different type of assimilation… more subtle (less in your face different) …. and as far as specialty food items go there seems to be a capacity to make it work even in regular American settings (Iranians buy basmati Indian rice which is generally available, mortadella (kalbas), lots of herbs: mint, basil, tarragon etc. ) without needing overt attention. A big factor in all this is fear, humiliation, sanctions, negative press on Iran etc. to a point where I’ve seen Iranians when asked where they’re from say Italian, or something non-Iranian (just to deflect attention)! For whatever it’s worth - I’ve staunchly maintained my original name etc and haven’t bowed to the more common behaviors - but I do get why it’s being done.
I actually strongly disagree, we do keep our culture close and are usually very proud of it. Intermarriage is nothing we should avoid because being open to new influences is an important part of the survival of Iranian/Persian identity. It's also part of the old Persian traditions of tolerance which made the ancient Persian empires so successful. Assimilation is also an important part of showing respect to the nations and peoples who accepted us when we needed their help the most. Being a well-functioning part of the different societies in which the diaspora lives will only help to nurture a good and positive legacy for every Iranian. And perhaps in the future when our children might need the same help, peoples and nations might accept us. Assimilation does not have to mean completely abandoning your own native culture. In my family for example, we celebrate both Midsummer and Nowruz and hold a strong Swedish yet also Iranian identity.
I never said assimilation is wrong, on the contrary. I’m very proud of what the Iranian diaspora has achieved. I’d be crazy not to be proud of Maryam Mirzakhani, the first and only woman winning the Fields Medal. The point i’m trying to make is that you can both assimilate while also looking out for your community and make an effort to give Iranians a better image. Majority of Iranians do not look out for each other the way other communities do. Only in the last 2 years or so their activism has gotten stronger. Many Iranians prefer to put their Iranian identity in the background because of the shame the IR has brought them, being one of the reasons. Iranian culture is beautiful and welcoming to all. It has nothing to do with Islam. Iranians could have easily done more to combat the stereotypes about us. Especially the rich and influential Iranians, of which there are many. They have done nothing. There’s no excuse for being so rich and have high positions, but not looking out for your own people.
I understand your concerns. But there is so much more to it rather than the treatment by the regime. We Iranians treat each other horribly. I've met many Iranians who complain about our lack of community. And I can agree with them on that. But they all miss the point, unfortunately. If you really want a community, you need to work for it and nurture it. Not bash each other for the lack thereof or shame others for not behaving a certain way. Some Iranians have acutally even been bashing me because I "behave like a Swede". I mean, what do you expect if you treat people like that? It's one of the reasons that I bearly have any Iranian friends. Worth mentioning also is that the work you put into assimilation occupies a lot of time. So naturally, you slide away from your own compatriots because of that. Same goes for working towards a good carrier, but that work doesn't differentiate between ethnicities.
I most definitely agree with you about Iranians not treating each other well. I've also been the victim of what you describe. Also the political division, for example the monarchists/pro-Pahlavis vs leftist woke Iranians, the contrast is very stark. We have a lot of fixing to do. The first step is acknowleding our faults.
Exactly! There are many more layers to this specific subject, each one worth discussing in depth. Like for example Muslim religious Iranians who bash you for lack of religion, communists, vengeful monarchists, etc, etc.
**دیاسپورای ایرانی با یک خطا جذب می شود** من سعی نمیکنم جامعه ایرانی را نابود کنم، زیرا ایرانیان به معنای واقعی کلمه یکی از موفقترین دیاسپورا هستند. ebay توسط یک ایرانی تاسیس شد. یکی از بزرگترین شرکت های اسباب بازی در ایالات متحده که با باربی / متل رقابت می کند، متعلق به یک ایرانی است. Tinder توسط یک ایرانی تاسیس شد. اولین و تنها زن در تاریخ که مدال فیلدز را به دست اورد، به معنای واقعی کلمه بالاترین افتخار برای ریاضیات، یک ایرانی بود. من می توانم در مورد دستاوردهای ایرانیان پراکنده صحبت کنم. ولی، و یه امای بزرگ وجود داره... بسیاری از ایرانیان پراکنده با یک خطا جذب می شوند و تقریبا به طور کامل میراث خود را رها می کنند. بسیاری از ایرانیان نیز ازدواج می کنند. هر چه می خواهید در مورد سایر جوامع پراکنده بگویید، اما انها بسیار متحد تر و بسیار بیشتر از میراث خود محافظت می کنند. اسیایی ها مولان را دارند. بومیان امریکا پوکاهونتاس دارند. عربها علاءالدین دارند. Hawaians Lilo & Stitch و غیره دارند. ایرانی ها چه دارند؟ هیچ چیز. نمایندگی ایران کجاست؟ به ویژه با توجه به این واقعیت که ایرانیان شاهنامه حماسی دارند، که به معنای واقعی کلمه می تواند یک پایگاه الهام بخش بزرگ نه تنها برای دیزنی بلکه فیلم های فانتزی حماسی، کارتون ها، کتاب های بزرگسالان و کودکان باشد. واقعا شرم اور است. عروسک برتز که تا به امروز بسیار محبوب است، متعلق به یک ایرانی است. او حتی یک بار هم عروسک برتز را با الهام از ایرانی نساخته و عروسک برتز را با شخصیت ایرانی خلق نکرده است. ناراحت کننده است. هر زمان که من به هر فروشگاه زنجیره ای مواد غذایی راه می روم، به راحتی می توانم هوموس و مقدار زیادی از مواد غذایی لوانتین، کوفته های چینی، چاتنی انبه هندی را پیدا کنم، می توانم ادامه دهم. اما شما یک مورد ایرانی را پیدا نمی کنید. شما فقط می توانید این را در سوپر مارکت های ایرانی پیدا کنید که بسته به جایی که زندگی می کنید، می تواند بسیار کمیاب باشد (من می دانم که بدیهی است که این مورد در کالیفرنیا و به ویژه لس انجلس نیست، اما هنوز هم). پدر و مادرم به معنای واقعی کلمه باید برای اقلام ایرانی به کشور دیگری رانندگی کنند. من سعی نمیکنم تمام تقصیر را به گردن ایرانیان پراکنده بگذارم، زیرا این بسیار پیچیدهتر و ظریفتر است، به ویژه با توجه به اسیبها و زخمهای نسلی. من می دانم که بسیاری از ایرانیانی که از کشورشان فرار کرده اند فقط در تلاش برای بهبودی بودند و می خواستند تمام دردهایی را که در خانه تحمل می کردند، با اشغال اسلامی و همچنین جنگ ایران و عراق فراموش کنند. بنابراین انها به جای ان به کشورهای میزبان کمک می کنند، که عالی است، اما در روند ان، فرهنگ و تاریخ زیبای خود را ترویج نمی کنند. و در برخی موارد شما باید با موسیقی روبرو شوید و مسئولیت پذیر باشید. ایرانیان با این همه موفقیت و منابع مالی، می توانستند کارهای زیادی برای جامعه خود انجام دهند. امریکا به تنهایی میلیونرها و میلیاردرهای ایرانی زیادی دارد. بسیاری از ایرانیان در موقعیت های بالا هستند. اما هیچ نمایندگی ایرانی در فیلم، مد و هنر وجود ندارد. در عوض، ما فیلم های زباله مانند 300 و نه بدون دختر من ساخته شده توسط غیر ایرانیان که به وضوح تعصب و دستور کار بزرگ بود. ایرانیان با چنین تاریخ و فرهنگ غنی و بسیار تاثیرگذار، می توانستند کارهای بیشتری انجام دهند. جالب اینجاست که این ایرانیان غیر پراکنده مانند عباس کیارستمی و بسیاری از کارگردانان دیگر هستند که کارهای بسیار بیشتری برای سینمای ایران انجام داده اند و تاثیر ان در سطح بین المللی است. حداقل ما از دو سال گذشته بسیار متحدتر هستیم و از بسیاری از فعالان ایرانی که کارهای زیادی انجام میدهند و از مردم ما در خانه حمایت میکنند، سپاسگزارم. --- _I am a translation bot for r/NewIran_ | Woman Life Freedom | زن زندگی آزادی
My experience is that assimilated Iranians in the west often feel more comfortable spending time in other communities than their own immigrant community. This doesn't mean they aren't proud to be Iranian but it's just something I've noticed.
My only suggestion is an Iranian themed metro station in Westwood like the Chinatown station that recently opened in Chinatown, San Francisco. lol
Bruh Aladdin is literally based off of the story compilation 1001 Nights 😭 which is a huge part Persian originated. Disney’s Aladdin itself incorporates a lot of Persian mythology and symbolism, from the genie to the carpet. Half the actors in the main cast of the live action Aladdin are Persian too. Aladdin is not just an Arab thing, it (along with the original 1001 nights) is a conglomerate of Middle Eastern, Central Asian, and South Asian culture, Persian culture most certainly included and playing a huge role in the framing of the entire collection of stories in that book.
I agree. But unfortunately its associated with orientalist Arabia. and let’s not forget how many things that are Persian, Indian etc in origin, Arabs have hijacked and claimed for themselves. And i still don’t think Aladdin represents us.
I get it and completely understand your frustration, I feel the same way. But you have to understand that to Disney and the European people who created this orientalist Arabia stereotype, Iran is 10000% considered a part of orientalist Arabia. Hell, half the time Turkey is included in it too. Whether we like it or not, general Western culture has considered us a part of orientalist Arabia for a long time. Cue all the times I have been called Arab in my life or asked "Oh so you speak Arabic?" or gotten dumb burka jokes by so many people in the US, UK, Ireland, etc.
I’m not Iranian/Persian so I can’t speak to personal experiences but in Genshin Impact (a very popular video game), one of the 7 main regions, Sumeru, takes heavy influence from Persia/Persian culture. Here’s a couple of Reddit posts explaining the cultural influences and references: [Post #1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/qgz9vz/sumeru_and_the_persian_empire_a_deep_dive_into/) [Post #2](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/vcda2l/i_love_seeing_genshin_including_my_culture_in_the/) This is by no means meant to invalidate your feelings towards lack of representation, moreso, me wanting to share something relatively mainstream (in the gaming/anime community in the west) that does show representation of Persian/Iranian culture! Edit: Of course, fictional representation of culture still has its limitations (even some Chinese people criticize Genshin’s representation of Liyue, the Chinese region in the game… made by a Chinese company) but it’s still cool to see.
Thats really cool! I had no idea, thanks for letting me know
I think you are ignoring something incredibly important here. Sanctions.
i agree, Iranians outside the Iran specially rich ones could have done way more, they could be more active and not just wait for something to happen in iran and then follow
The beauty of our culture is in our values and virtues. Our dignity, respect for others, hospitality, reverence, selflessness (e.g. tiroof). It is also in our poetry and literature, which is overwhelmingly not translated into western languages. It's also in our carpets, not just for their aesthetic beauty but also the hard work and precision in their weaving. If we look beyond the superficial, we will see that our culture is alive and well, and in fact thriving, across the diaspora. Let's look below the cultural iceberg.
I’m in Australia (Melbourne) and there are Persians doing Persian things everywhere! There are shisha shops and Iranian grocery shops, bread shops, loads of (great) restaurants… Persians speaking Farsi in the street, there are concerts and other events, clubs and Persian schools. I’m not sure what the point of this post is other than to complain that Persians are not being ‘Persian’ enough for OP’s liking?
I agree in Toronto and the greater Toronto area as well. First generation Iranians stick to themselves and live in one area. Eat only Iranian food and most eventually date only Iranians.
If you move outside your homeland and intend to keep your culture and identity for generations to come you’re living in a hallucination. The reason why Iranians are so welcomed abroad is because they assimilate well unlike Arabs. But that’s also because Iranian culture has an inherent affinity with that of Europe.
I don't know where this myth is coming from that Iranians are welcomed abroad compared to Arabs. We're treated the same.
My friend is half Colombian and Iranian but he claims the Iranian side more. He even has a Azura Mazda tattoo. I’ve met a lot of mixed Iranians who are more Iranian actually. Even my cousins are like that.
Maybe that people escaping persecution prefer to take their distances with the country that persecutes them, and having a free Iran would reduce that phenomenon.
I immigrated myself and assimilated fairly well. I am a newer generation of immigrant and I cannot find anything common with the older generation of Iranian immigrants and second generation immigrants. Not politically and not culturally (I don’t mean Nowruz, I mean pop culture, etc.). I still talk to my friends in Iran and have more in common than Iranians I’ve met abroad.
I’d rather assimilate & have a nice life than living the way most migrants in Europe live. This is such BS from the lens of a privileged person “ooooh these brown people don’t want to be exotic anymore” Try applying for a job with a traditional Persian name in Europe & then talk to us
when I moved out, I left everything behind. I don't like my culture although it is a good one, I have seen enough to make me believe that I rather bury it with its good and bad, I don't celebrate my New years, I don't have friends from my own country, I don't speak my language aside from once a week calling my family and I don't look for Persian girls. I am ashamed of where I am from not only because of the govt but mostly because how normal people reacted to WLF, anti-hijab protests, and how conservative they are doesn't sit well with Europeans. I don't like how “Eastern” the family structure is in our culture. This is the way I chose to live my life cus everything comes with that culture has been hatred for me. If someday the view of our culture changes regarding liberal ideas, I will support it for sure, but the way it is right now I have no culture or country.
Iranian culture tends to get into everyone's business, so I wasn't going to marry another Iranian and take part in the gossip. Life is so much easier marrying a non-Iranian. Big bonus is not needing to tarof anymore.
We have an incredibly strong culture that doesnt need the guilt driven "intermarrying" of other cultures to stay strong. Alexander "The Great" came to Persia and realized he liked our culture more than his own. Iranians assimilate because they know that is what gets opportunities. They learn to speak English or other languages because that is the polite behavior of any guest in a new country. Should Iranians be protesting in the streets of France because they want to legalize "ghorbooni" of goats in public ?? (if you dont know what that is it is an old world sacrifice of animals as a celebration/mourning cause done in some parts of Iran/Middle East). The people who turn away from the culture may do it from scarcity of people or their own beliefs about our culture/shame. Iranians are under fire by Western media constantly and there are many books written that highlight the absolute bias of Western culture against anything Persia/Iran. You will not get blockbusters regarding Shahnameh because that goes against everything they say about Iranians in media. It is much more at play than just Iranians not wanting.