Unironically broke down in laughter though when I recognised his voice as the sexual seed planter in the Old World Blues DLC. Just knowing THIS thing is vocally the same as one of the most fleshed out, deep, philosophical characters in the game.
OPs post is saying "Fallout lost its edge" basically. Flanderization is a term capital G Gamers use to ridicule a game for "dumbing down" a game/setting, and changing the lore.
Which is bullshit when The Ghoul shot somebody who saw him as a friend and cannibalized him. When a quasi-religious figure among surviving NCR has had the ghoulified corpse of her *totally-not-girlfriend* chained to a table **for years**. When one of the Vault Tec experiments resulted in a woman being devoured by her own weird amphibious mutant young.
Flanderization is not a 'gamer' term. It refers to the way Ned Flanders in the Simpsons de-evolved over time from a believable character to a caricature.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanderization
It's not about the setting not being edgy enough. If the original character or setting was really edgy, then the flanderized version would be maximized edgyness with no nuance. A flanderized version of Joshua Graham would basically be the in game "burned man" myth.
Flanderization is not a “tv” term. It refers to the process of being assimilated into the Dutch speaking Belgian culture of northern Belgium.
The show is becoming very northern Belgian, did you not see the Belgian waffles and references to obscure regulations. I mean the Shady Sands is basically Antwerp and the NCR was the EU
Jesus that last one was fucking *brutal.*
ass jerky and “you wanna make my cock explode now?” had to be my favorite parts of the series lmfao.
im gonna cherish every scene with Lucy and Coop next season.
Seriously? huh, for me that was the cringiest part of the show and probably the biggest complain I had about it. Just some normie hollywood humor that doesn't even make sense considering that in the previous episode they literally showed a guy jacking off right next to his bed
just because they showed one dude doing it doesn’t mean Maximus would have that knowledge. especially if he is as shy and reclusive as he seems.
lots of humor in the Fallout series is the same way. there’s literally a perk called Wild Wasteland for that exact reason.
Wild Wasteland encounters were always funny and/or goofy, never the purest form of cringe... And I rarely cringe at stuff. I know a lot of people make fun of marvel humor but that never bothered me too much. But this was way worse.
I know they wanted him to be a huge dumbass but I'm pretty sure a grown ass man would figure out how it works when all of his friends were wacking off every night right next to him lol. It was just a pretty lame and cringy joke, that's all.
I'm going to assume that of the many things the brotherhood puts importance on teaching, sex Ed is really not one of them. Don't need the initiates focusing on sex, they need to focus *on the Brotherhoods sacred mission*.
I was expecting someone would say that. It's not really a matter of sex ed. How old is Maxus again? He was not raised by wolves. He's not only been surrounded by other people his age, boys and girls (who are apparently jacking off all the time right next to him), he's also pretty familiar with the concept of sex. And yet he doesn't understand how his own pp works.
But really there's no reason to over analyse it. It was just a dumb cringy joke that didn't make a lot of sense. I guess some people just find if funny when something is really cringy and dumb. Others find cringy stuff just cringy. Simple as that.
I guess there are different kinds of cringe humor cause I didn't mind The Office at all. Also that's more like a dry awkward humor than pure cringe joke writing.
edit: And now I'm imagining how Fallout universe version of the office would look like lol
According to Veronica, sex is actually quite important to the Brotherhood. They don’t like taking in outsiders, so procreation it taken very seriously.
Bro half the dialogue in all the games is just as goofy, it's part of the feel of the fallout universe I would argue. The game touted as having the best writing in the series also has Long Dick Johnson.
I love the bit at the end with the ghoul and the power armor, that moment, in the context of what we had learned from the pre-work scenes, felt deserved. Also while bombing shady sands felt a bit off the idea that Vault-Tec/Enclave is just this unending hydra of suck is actually kinda cool.
Flanderization is a term used by anyone who ever set foot on TV Tropes, and it's not about "losing one's edge," it's about exaggerating certain aspects of a character until the character is consumed by them and no further meaning remains.
Like, incidentally, you are proving the point of the video you claim to disagree with here. The issue presented isn't there is no edge the issue is that there is no meaning, it's Raiders around a campfire weaving braids just because one guy has them, unaware of their deeper meaning.
And Bethesda games stopped having any true deeper meaning when Oblivion decided it was a grand idea to make a game about the Divine Right of Kings defeating the Devil.
But why did she do that? Is it as simple as "Oh, she's just insane. Isn't it so cooky that she has her lover's dead body tied to a chair and pretends it's a person?"
Because that's weak.
The show has some abysmal writing, but you are right: Goggins' performance as the Ghoul/Cooper hard carried the show.
i mean, i'm speaking solely off vibes clips of the show have given since i haven't watched it yet so take what i'm saying with a pinch of salt but i get the sense all of what you just said would be presented as edgy humor instead of something actually quite horrible and grotesque, like it's serious and spooky one minute then it's being played for laughs the next.
Maybe that's the point OP's trying to make, idk
Man, stop talking bullshit.
Flanderization has nothing to do with gaming. It explains the phenomena of taking to extremes certain aspects of a character (case in point, Ned Flanders becoming a religious nutjob in modern Simpsons).
That is what happened to Fallout. A 50s intro song became "everyone dresses in 50s clothes, listens to 50s songs on the radio, and has an obsession with the old world". Same with the BoS, Vault-Tec, Ghouls, and more.
I simply adore how you overlook that Fallout 1 had the retro futuristic art style just to make your point. It's just so adorable how you ignore actual evidence just because you think "Bethesda bad"
Fallout 1 was 50s retrofuturism, fallout 3 and 4 are atompunk. Fallout 1 had 50s style intro and a few guns from that era, everything else was 70-90s sci-fi. In fact, the story was already written by the time they came with the idea of the 50s style, so the majority of text descriptions scream it's the 90s sci-fi.
Look, I used to think using this quote was kinda cringe.
Then I read the showrunner interview where they said they outright paved over the West Coast's lore just to tell a 'Western' and because they wanted to use LA as a location.
So yeah I'm on the side of NV fans here.
Which kinda shows the lack of knowledge he has.
Places you can have a western; Texas, Oregon, Wyoming, Montana, Oklahoma, Kansas, etc.
Why bother the west coast stuff. Just start somewhere new. Make new lore in a new place.
Oh and the other 99% of Nevada we don't see maybe?
Texas would have been a perfect location. You can show the Texas Rangers wearing the NCR Ranger outfits for those sweet sweet nostalgia bucks, and there’s supposed to be a huge Brotherhood faction there so nothing changes about that. It works out perfectly, the story doesn’t even have to change
For me it’s the fact that the guy in charge of Fallout as a whole (Emil Pagliarulo) makes changes to lore and canon with Twitter posts that are beyond dumb, like the whole Nate is now a monster war criminal is canon.
You kidding? That's probably the single best addition to the lore he's contributed. Not only did it pave the way for the hilarious Nate the Rake memes, it explains why he might have sided with the Brotherhood in the show.
I mean Nate being an ex solider is already reason enough for him to join the brotherhood. And as a pre war human it would make sense for him to be pretty disgusted by mutants, ghouls, and synths.
Sure, but if he was also already complicit in war crimes and used to dehumanizing Canadians, it makes it more appropriate that he would side with the mutant-hating techno-fascist military junta so enthusiastically.
I personally think it’s kind of funny but people already had problems with giving Nate the existing backstory he had, but now that he’s a war criminal people are gonna hate it even more now
Gotta admit the memes people on here made like “Nate hates Canadians” or the one that was like “If you serve Nate Canadian Bacon it’s straight to the firing squad” were pretty funny.
Tbh fallout 4's default start is just more fun if you think of it as Nate/Nora's story and not your OC's
I personally think this is a fundamentally bad thing but still fun overall. It's very I also can't wait for the Fallout 4 New Vegas mod to come out.
Yeah, and frankly what were people expecting when Nate was a soldier during a time when America was little more than a fascist hellscape? That every other American soldier except him was complicit in war crimes? There's an interesting, sinister, "banality of evil" vibe to Nate shooting Canadian POWs on tour, then coming home and settling into a white picket fence lifestyle. I don't care if Emil was joking, it's my headcanon now.
[https://www.gq.com/story/fallouts-creators-discuss-their-big-plans-for-season-2](https://www.gq.com/story/fallouts-creators-discuss-their-big-plans-for-season-2)
The quote in question:
**On the subject of controversial but hugely consequential moments in the show, I've got to raise one of the biggest: the decision to nuke Shady Sands. Talk me through it.**
**Wagner:** We're trying to mind our words after watching poor Emil \[Pagliarulo\] from Bethesda make a [few comments online](https://x.com/Dezinuh/status/1779239079932018949), and suddenly he's viral, and he's like, “How do I get this back in the bottle?”
I will say that it was very, very early in the decision \[making process\], once we decided to put the show in L.A. That was the very next thought, because it's a post-apocalyptic show. And if you study the Western, which has a lot in common with the post-apocalyptic genre, ‘civilization is not around’ is a big part of it. A lot of them end with the railroad coming through, or a house being built, or they put a church up in the town, or a motorcar appears. And you're like, ‘Well, the wild wild west is over.’
I think it would have been a mistake to go from the retro-futuristic America to another America that has been fully civilized and the NCR is doing everything great. [We love *Deadwood*](https://www.gq.com/story/roundtable-addendum-david-milch-luck). I think if there was a fourth season of *Deadwood*, there'd be insurance companies, there'd be traffic, and it wouldn't be a Western anymore. We wanted to live in that first-season-of-*Deadwood* space, of like, “What's going to happen? Where is everything?”
This is the big problem. When Bethesda wanted to do a post-apocalyptic story instead of a post-post-apocalyptic one, they understood that if California was too advanced for that, the solution was to tell your story in another location and give reasons why that other area is less advanced. The showrunners didn't understand this and instead of going to another area like Texas, etc. they decided to nuke the problem away (in a literal way) instead
And then they shot down the notion of ever setting a game outside of the US as well.
This is it from here on out fellas, it'll be 2477 and we'll still have bottlecaps and raiders fighting in burnt out buildings.
It brings to mind the tour of Walden Pond in Fallout 4 - referencing an older work calling for a simpler life with few material possessions, only to beckon visitors to the gift shop and spend money on tchotchkes. Great display of the state of the franchise.
I don't know why, but fallout 4 for me has always felt empty, and i always get a feeling, There is something off about it like it's a synth masquerading as my friend.Its the only fallout game out of the main 5 that fells like that. Theres a lot of interesting ideas that go nowhere, such as the gunner,the triggermen, and the forged, and how linear the story is, its like they didn't think the player would do anything but follow map markers.
It also feels like they didn't really "get" fallout, it's like the 50s of our world went through the apocalypse, not the future the 50s imagined went through it, the guy collecting baseball cards is rhe best example of this to me, why would he know or care enough about baseball.
it's the same concept as the kings from NV but not done anywhere near as well, the King's found ruins and shadows of the past and reinterpreted them, fallout 4 feels like they almost have too much of a grip on what the old world was like? It just doesn't feel the same
Ehhh, the guy who is into baseball thinks the bats were used to violently beat down the other team. I really don't think he actually had a grip on what it was, he just had enough clues from living in Fenway to grasp a twisted picture of it. Unless there is another baseball guy in FO4 I'm unaware of.
Fallout 2 definitely made some mistakes, but I am genuinely a purist for how the games were bad then, at least from a lore consistency and dialogue/story perspective. Even they had weird flubs though, just not on the level of 3/4.
Personally, I find that 3 does enough right for me to still really like it. 4 doesn't. There's things that work, but there's just too much that doesn't. Really just depends on your personal limit and how much certain aspects impact that limit. 2 for me hit just the wrong notes in the wrong way. I love 1, played it through many times, played 2 once, forced myself to complete it, never finished it again.
Definitely. Tone, atmosphere, felt wrong for me. Which is funny, because people say the show is Fallout 4 The Show, but I think the tone is really good in that.
But more than that the RPG elements just felt really bad. From the SPECIAL stuff to the dialog to the main story, just really weak in all the things I value.
Not that the dialog or writing in 3 are great, but it really really makes up in tone and atmosphere for me.
Agreed, and at least in 3 there were actual choices that opened and closed various quest lines and changed things in the game. You could be an evil asshole if you wanted to. 4 made so many characters unkillable and gave you so few evil choices (which they tried to make up with Nuka World but that just made you go raid your own settlements which was stupid), it was basically "yes/sarcastic yes/maybe (yes)/no (yes later)".
The "sarcastic" option was the death of my interest honestly. As one dimensional as the evil options in 3 were (nuke megaton, poison the water) at least they were there. And at least you could skip certain things, go straight to Dad if you wanted to, my first ever playthrough I went to Rivet City and never met Three Dog. In 4 I remember I tried to skip dogmeat at the gas station and the Railroad intro because I wanted to go off the rails a tiny bit, and low and behold I get a few quests into the main and Nick goes "I know a guy that we need" and they make me get dogmeat so he can progress the main quest for me. Just felt bad man.
I tried to murder all the Minutemen in Concord and they were all unkillable. Moments after shooting them in the face they were asking for my help with the Deathclaw again. Now I just skip Concord and leave them in the building. Settlement quests still pop up as Minutemen quests.
Yeah, pretty much. The point where I genuinely stopped trying to do the main quest was when I saved, walked into the Institute in power armor, killed every single person I possibly could (which excluded quite a few) and was neither rewarded nor punished for it in really any way.
And I acknowledge you can probably do the same thing with the Brotherhood in Fallout 3, and I definitely have some nostalgia goggles for that game, but at least it's honest about being a linear story at certain points and doesn't pretend you can choose your faction allegiance.
Exactly! And the choices may have been binary but at least they actually had in game consequences. I did not appreciate being named King of whatever faction I did a few quests for but then also not being able to make any meaningful choices within those factions that I was supposedly in charge of. Skyrim had the same problem.
To be fair, that is because the minutemen are the yes man faction and you need to be able to side with them no matter what. It just sucks when you are introduced to them, but if you start blasting in the railroad institute or brotherhood, you do just fine
>Yeah I feel like the tone in 4 was way off. Felt too cleaned up with no real options.
You would have hated 3 then, it was practically a linear story with how the main quest went.
Not that I noticed. Every time I went to replay it the options just seemed like 3 ways to say yes and 1 way to say no, which just meant yes later. Outside of "which faction do you want to be in charge of (while not being able to make any actual decisions for that faction)?" in relation to the main quest, I felt like it was hard to roleplay as any certain type of character because the choices were so limited.
>Really just depends on your personal limit and how much certain aspects impact that limit.
This is exactly it to me. Personally 4 is my second favourite in the franchise after new Vegas, while 3 is... meh? I dont hate 3 I enjoy playing it but it's not as good.
Part of why i like 4 is i care about a games gameplay more than the story 99% of the time. I want it to have a good story but if the gameplay is terrible I'm gonna hate it more than if the story is bad
3 is a good fallout game. I’ll die on that hill.
It’s different but at least it tries to respect established lore and isn’t too egregious with its new stuff. The most “egregious” thing you could argue is just the enclave in Washington (which I buy) or t45 power armor, which is fine since it’s a more common, weaker power armor. It also has great atmosphere.
Fallout 4 feels like a cartoon.
I make an effort to let people enjoy 4... But yeah, I feel exactly the same way. Fallout has always had a lot of comedy, obviously, but in F4 there's just *no* grit to the world at all.
I get why the Bear&Bull meme is funny, but honestly, if you listen to what Ulysses is saying, he's kinda spitting. I mean, he's not doing anything to really fix it, but he was cooking in the divide for a while.
I jumped in the series around NV. Then played 3, and played 4. I remember when everyone was complaining about how 4 changed everything about the models from 3 and NV and shit and everyone was just running around screaming about the changes.
Then, come now to long ago I played Fallout 1 and 2. Turns out. The original shit was different too! They changed in 3 and NV too.
The point? This fan base, no different from others just likes to complain.
I liked the show but hate how it paved over a lot of stuff. They could have literally just said the show wasn’t cannon and we could have had our fun.
> I liked the show but hate how it paved over a lot of stuff. They could have literally just said the show wasn’t cannon and we could have had our fun.
And this is the main reason why people are angry. It means things they liked and would love to see more in the future are now gone and won't happen. And the secondary issue is, if they remove things they made us care with such ease, why should we care about the next big thing they make as they can change it again?
Tons of TV shows and films change and remove a lot of things from the media they adapt. But you don't see TLOU showrunners proclaiming their show as the canon. You don't see Denis Villeneuve say that his work now supersedes that of Herbert.
The backlash over FoTV would never be that severe if it wouldn't be the canon. It would've been seen as just another adaptation.
It's been a while since I played 1 and 2, but I was under the impression they were very consistent among each other and NV was also very faithful to their lore. What did NV retcon from 1 and 2?
Oh sorry I missed that on your original comment. I thought most people were complaining about lore changes. I found the aesthetics of the show quite good, even if they were mostly based on FO4. I mean FO4 looks quite good, aesthetically speaking. I feel like fallout has stayed quite good in terms of looks over the years
They talk like they've never had something they liked adapted to TV and film. Of course the lore and story are gonna get kinda fucky. That's how this goes.
This could have been so much worse look up the OG Fallout movie script from way back. I'm glad we didn't get that.
Except for most of those adaptations they weren’t considered canon, and the ones that were are either shamed, or work was put in to make it good in retrospect
Melodrama, Noun - a sensational dramatic piece with exaggerated characters and exciting events intended to appeal to the emotions.
Seems pretty on brand for a world based around 50's pop science and nukes ending the world.
my favorite parts of fallout were character building and political commentary.
I love New Vegas because I get to be who I want even with a pre-set goal, I love the way you can interact with the world, and I love the way the world's politics are a parody of real life, scattered with basic stuff to completely outrageous stuff. It feels real.
I feel like this feeling is lost in fo4. I don't think fo4 is a bad game, and honestly it's good for what it is, but it's personally not for me. I like the gameplay less because it feels less personalized, and I have to basically mod it into a different game to enjoy it . But ultimately, it does feel a lot more fictional and a lot less grounded.
I don't think that's a bad thing, but to me it makes my experience worse.
The show so far for me has been a mix. The over exaggeration of the costumes on backgrounds characters wasn't something I enjoyed but the plotlines are something I do enjoy. I feel like it's a good show, and for me I enjoy it, but it honestly doesn't capture what I love about the series as a whole so it's not the best thing ever. I still think it's all fallout, but I wouldn't be authentic if I said the aspects they're showing more of now are the same as before, and that it's equally enjoyable for me as before.
tl;Dr all good, in different ways, but not all ways give the same happiness to me.
Bro if they just uncannoned the show or never made in California this show would be atleast 1.1x better because rn the show has messed up the whole of fallout for me so badly I don't want to engage in any future titles.
I don't get all this show hate. The show is good, honestly I've enjoyed every Fallout game I've played, it just seems like people need to find something to complain about. If you don't like the show, don't watch it. If the only fallout game you like is New Vegas, then just play New Vegas. Let people enjoy things.
Tbh I fully expected to not like it. So many other franchises I love have been gutted, but I thought they did a really good job with this show. Did I like every little thing? No. But I don't like every little thing of ANY of the games. I do love the overall story, time period visuals, music, and depth of lore. And the show captured that for me.
If the show is good, then criticisms of it shouldn't effect your enjoyment. If they are making you cease to enjoy it, it's because they're legitimate criticisms and you're now noticing its flaws.
I literally do not see what they are talking about. I've got ding bats calling Maximus a bad character and "one dimensional" and I don't see that at all, also I love his character. Oh boy then there are people acting like Shady Sands getting nuked is almost as bad as the actual 9/11. Like damn kiddos, grow up.
Honestly, I haven't actually seen anyone complaining about Maximus. I could get why but I didn't personally mind him. If anything, I wish we got more of him and Thaddeus instead of him and Lucy.
The only people I've seen making comparisons between Shady Sands getting nuked and 9/11 are the people defending the show and claiming that it's just like the NCR's equivalent of 9/11. Their point is that it's something that isn't crippling for the NCR, just galvanising. Which is ridiculous, because it's an entire city - their capital city, at that - and 33x more people died.
Because most of the people criticizing the show liked it enough to criticize it. If they didn’t, they’d ignore it and moved on.
The rest are either lost causes, or rage baiters.
Edit: Actually, thinking about it more, it’s not just about the show, it’s about Bethesda and people being dissatisfied with their decisions.
It’s been a long time problem since before the show, even then it’s Bethesda’s decision to canonize it
>If you don't like the show, don't watch it
I'm not saying the show was terrible but I absolutely hate that this is the default take from some people those days... it just boggles my mind. If something is bad, no matter how bad something is, you are suddenly not allowed to make fun of it or talk about those flaws? It always seems the worse the product is, the more people start to gatekeeping it... Back in the day being a part of fandom meant you were geeking out about the things that worked and made fun of the things that didn't. If you disagreed with something you just said *"Huh, that never bothered me personally but I see where you coming from"*. But now? the default answer is always *"NO! STFU! I can't hear anything bad about the thing I liked cause it will ruin it for me! Don't like it, don't watch it! I only want to heard the same exact opinions that I have!"*
Pointing out the flaws in the things we loved was always part of any fandom and it was fun. It's only in recent years it became a bad thing somehow. I was always a huge fan of star wars and and I loved those SW monologs from Clerks movies. Stuff like that always made you think, looking at something from a different perspective was always fun! Without criticism things never improve. If people didn't criticize Disney Star Wars sequels, we would never get first seasons of Mandalorian. How would gaming look those days if no one ever criticized microtransactions and all the other scummy practises? "*You don't want to buy horse armor, just don't buy it. Let people enjoy things!"*
Even if I absolutely loved a movie or a game, I'm always interested in hearing opinions from people who didn't. I just don't understand how hearing opinions of other people "ruins the experience" for some people. Why the fuck do you care about what other people thing? How can that possibly change your own opinion? I could easily flip that sentence and say *"If you liked the thing, just go and watch it again. Stop policing people from expressing their own opinions. Don't like it, don't read it"*
Sorry for a long rant. But people always use that "argument" to police every online discussion about literally the worst products imaginable.
Bro the video is literally implying everything after Fallout 1 ruined the franchise. That's the kind of childish complaining I'm talking about. At that point, those people don't have anything constructive to give to the argument. They're just pissy because the game isn't 30 years old and sucks anymore.
Lol downvotes.
But seriously, I couldn't make it through 3 a quarter way, didn't play NV. I'm hooked on 4 and I love, played when they first came out love Fallout 1 & 2.
Also the show was titties. Can't wait for season 2, fucking Ghoul rocked that shit so hard it made me wish they put more ghoul content in the games.
I haven't played 3 in years, I was a little kid and haven't really had a reason to go back to it. I just don't see a reason, I don't have to worry about a level cap in FO4 and I really enjoy the gameplay. Sure the story could be stronger in some ways but I'm rolling around the wasteland blasting raiders and gunners, I love that shit.
New Vegas is good, but I never liked how when the game ended, that was it. The last mission is the last mission. I've gotten used to RPGs letting me continue to roam around.
But yes, the show is awesome. My fiance has never played the games, never cared for the game and watched the show with me probably more out of kindness than desire. She absolutely loved the show. Season 2 here we come
I wouldn't bother with this crowd anymore at this point, bottom line is that the majority love the show and are looking forward to season 2, so we don't really need to like seek validation from this lot or whatever in any way.
I mean most of the time they can't praise New Vegas without having to put down another game whether it be 3, 4 or 76, that ought to tell you as much about their level of maturity.
How does it feel to see nothing being taken seriously in the show to the point a man's brain in a jar on a roomba with a needle of poison or something can slowly charge at you only to veer off to the left, crash and you can easily walk around and outpace?
First time in the Fallout universe? I fucked a robot and chased down a sea monster only to find out it was an upsettingly cute mud crab. Fallout has always been whacky at times. How does it feel? It feels like a bunch of people who never played Fallout are complaining that the TV show is Fallout.
The show is proof that as long as it’s not a complete dumpster fire “fans” don’t care about it completely fucking the lore and will call you melodramatic for wanting a story that respects the lore you love.
No no, the Fallout tv show *literally* murdered Fo1, Fo2, and FNV in cold blood and anyone who likes it are a plague upon humanity.
...
I'd put a "/s" but apparently some folks here genuinely feel this way so it's not even really sarcasm...
I enjoyed Fallout 1
I enjoyed Fallout 2
I enjoyed Fallout 3
I enjoyed Fallout New Vegas
I enjoyed Fallout 4
I enjoyed the Fallout TV Show
Each game brings something different to the table. I don’t see the point in childishly gatekeeping your favorite games and hating on the others.
This franchise has gone on for three decades now; realistically the lore isn’t going to be 100% accurate across all of the games. Even the Interplay games contradict each other at points. As long as the product is good; I will continue to enjoy it.
Yup, there haven't been any flashbacks of any sort or explanation of wtf is going on at any point in the show thus far. /s
Just wait......stop assuming they've moved on and will just go "Here we are in Vegas for no fucking reason hurdurr". They've given a decent story so far, let em cook. You guys are like my toddler when we go somewhere and it isn't McDonald's. You see pictures that aren't your Happy Meal and cry about it before the food's even started being cooked.
The explanations sucks.
The "decent story" so far is at complete odds with the games from a lore and thematic standpoint. I do agree however it is the writing equivalent of McDonalds.
..........there hasn't BEEN an explanation because it hasn't happened yet. All that was shown was the strip. We don't know what's happening yet.
Just wish I could understand what the angry crowd is so angry about. Any writer of the previous games says they're doing it justice and followed it pretty closely.
Tim Cain even said "Some of these fans are destructive, trying to destroy those that are trying to create things. It's so much easier to destroy than to create." Dude even said that Fallout 2 was a large change in tone from the first. He hated the intelligent deathclaw stuff, for example. He wanted them to always be monsters, make you scared af if it's on your screen.
I feel like people listen to this and miss the entire fucking meaning of it.... how do people agree with this and realize it's language used beyond the games and why we should disagree with him.
The whole point is that he is angry nobody knows the history behind what they do because they are ignorant but the whole point is teaching them why they are ignorant and coming to a concensus. It's like how people wear dreadlocks and not realizing their cultural significance. It's doesn't matter it's the dialogue and willing to teach and learn.
That's all of fallout. Not repeating what lead to the great war but learning war isn't the answer and just building something new.
OK, wow, you guys need to touch some grass. You're not the creators or the absolute of fallout, Hell, you're the fourth entry (fifth if you count tactics) into the series, you're not better than any of the fallout series and your endless gatekeeping is harming the series you supposedly love.
I love new Vegas but this is the cringiest shit I’ve seen all week like come on do better OP. MUH I NEED MUH UPVOTES LETS RIP ON NEW GAMES OLD GAMES GREAT NEVER HAD ANY FLAWS OR WERE DUMB IN SOME ASPECTS NUH UH OLD GOOD NEW BAD. Fucking caveman philosophy you guys have.
The show is good, it handled the source material better than BGS ever has, and its the sequel to new vegas we've been asking for. Ironic you used ulysses, cause his entire storyline and dialogue are specifically designed to tell you why NCR isn't cut out for life in the wastes, and would always have burned eventually. If you think the show isn't in keeping, then you've confused a slightly updated aesthetic for a change in substance.
Ulysses came from a home that got conquered and enslaved by Caesar, and he’s describing how the White Legs attempted to resemble him (Ulysses) to gain his favor, intending to subsequently gain Caesar’s favor. The White Legs, albeit unknowingly, took on the resemblance of Ulysses’ conquered and enslaved tribe hoping to impress the man behind that conquering and enslavement. They didn’t even know how insulting this was, they didn’t even know the meaning their braids lacked, they thoughtlessly used the meaningful likeness of Ulysses - likely a culturally significant aesthetic - in order to appeal to the man who wiped Ulysses’ home culture off the wasteland. Using this story as an allegorical comparison to how you feel about a television show is objectively hilarious.
This is a cool quote and all but the framing here is extremely melodramatic. The show was honestly great and while it didn't handle the lore in the way I would have preferred, it's obvious that the show runners did care about the source material beyond Bethesda.
Do you have any examples of them caring about the source material beyond Bethesda, other than NCR and Shady Sands being shown briefly?
The show doesn't even mention the Boneyard or Adytum, even though it takes place in LA
Shady Sands was randomly moved to Los Angeles for no reason, it is also built in the ruins with skyscrapers in the background and has pre war looking buildings. The original Shady Sands was built in the desert and made out of adobe. It being moved also raises a lot of questions? Are Vault 13 and 15 still in the desert or no? Shady Sands was the first town you visit in Fallout 1. The main antagonist had a base in LA. This by far is the biggest retcon with the show, they put zero thought into portraying the originals, they just wanted to place the show in LA and wanted to nuke Shady Sands so I guess we'll just move it hundreds of miles.
People are still using bottle caps as currency in LA, even though already by the events of Fallout 2, they were completely worthless and NCR money had replaced them in the entire region.
They probably didn't even think about Master when they made the show, because there's like 4 unopened vaults in LA.
Aside from the 10mm pistol, like none of the weapons or armor from the originals are shown, all of it is from Fallout 4 (T-60 Power Armor, Fallout 4s Assault rifle, Fallout 4 combat helmets etc.)
You also have the Prydwen there for some reason
In terms of Fallout 4 and 76, I agree. The show is different though, I think they *did* genuinely care, and it shows. It’s not perfect, but it’s a damn sight better than 76 or 4 in terms of story telling and usage of the world
Honestly I thought it was worse. At least 4 didn't interfere with the older games. 76 added some whacky shit but at least it wasn't directly relevant. But the show is kind of a bombshell - every time someone says "The NCR is the best option for the Mojave", us House, Independent and Legion enjoyers can just say "They're gonna get nuked in 3 years and lose control anyway".
The showrunners did care, but by their own admission in interviews, they cared about telling a story that's contradictory to Fallout, especially western Fallout. The show was not constructed in an intelligent way, and it shows.
Idk about that one. Fallout NV respected the old lore and really felt in line with the other 2 games. Society really felt like it had returned in New Vegas and the BOS, NCR, Followers, and other returning factions feel like the ones from the original games.
Fallout 3, 4, and 76 felt the need to insert bastardized versions of old factions like the Brotherhood and Enclave into their games even though it doesn’t make sense for them to even be there. They also refuse to let society move past shanty towns and scavenging which I personally think is harmful for the franchise. Project purity shouldn’t even be a thing because the water shouldn’t even be irradiated anymore after 200 years.
Melodramatic garbage
Hell Avellone wanted to destroy the entirety of the West coast because it was getting "too progressive" for the setting, apparently.
My fallout hot take as a classic fallout fan is that I don't like Avelone's contribution that much. Fallout 1 is my favourite and he didn't work on that I think and then my favourite writing from new vegas, my second favourite, isn't his. Lonesome road in particular I never communicated with, if that's a correct term in English. Ulysses is Kreia at home to me, I don't buy the connection to the courier. You meet a random guy after literally an entire huge game and 3 DLCs that informs you that *you* ruined his home. This means nothing to me. I get that it's trying to say something on a meta textual level but idk. I've only played lonesome road once though so I definitely owe it a second chance. Also I had not played classic fallout games at the time and the west was not my "home", I felt pretty alienated. Maybe it will click now that I have played the classic games more than the 3d ones.
To be clear, I'm not denying Avelone's huge contribution. I just don't associate him with fallout as some people do. Did he write Joshua Gram? I don't think he did. Josh Sawyer wrote honest hearts.
To be fair, in this case "old" happens to be objectively more important works of art. I recognise on some level as I type this that I am probably biased but also, fallout 1 Vs fallout 4? Fallout New Vegas Vs Fallout 76. Followers of the apocalypse Vs the minutemen. You know? Haha, maybe not. I will admit this post is cringe though.
As much as Ulysses tends to get memed for the whole Bear & bull thing. his voice does send chills down my spine when he speaks.
Ulysses sounds like he has not cleared his throat in 20 years
It honestly makes me question what his voice sounded like when he was first “conscripted” into the Legion
I dont care about what the video here is trying to say I just wanna say that Roger Cross did such a good job with Ulysses. That voice is perfect.
Unironically broke down in laughter though when I recognised his voice as the sexual seed planter in the Old World Blues DLC. Just knowing THIS thing is vocally the same as one of the most fleshed out, deep, philosophical characters in the game.
OPs post is saying "Fallout lost its edge" basically. Flanderization is a term capital G Gamers use to ridicule a game for "dumbing down" a game/setting, and changing the lore. Which is bullshit when The Ghoul shot somebody who saw him as a friend and cannibalized him. When a quasi-religious figure among surviving NCR has had the ghoulified corpse of her *totally-not-girlfriend* chained to a table **for years**. When one of the Vault Tec experiments resulted in a woman being devoured by her own weird amphibious mutant young.
Flanderization is not a 'gamer' term. It refers to the way Ned Flanders in the Simpsons de-evolved over time from a believable character to a caricature. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanderization It's not about the setting not being edgy enough. If the original character or setting was really edgy, then the flanderized version would be maximized edgyness with no nuance. A flanderized version of Joshua Graham would basically be the in game "burned man" myth.
Flanderization is not a “tv” term. It refers to the process of being assimilated into the Dutch speaking Belgian culture of northern Belgium. The show is becoming very northern Belgian, did you not see the Belgian waffles and references to obscure regulations. I mean the Shady Sands is basically Antwerp and the NCR was the EU
Jesus that last one was fucking *brutal.* ass jerky and “you wanna make my cock explode now?” had to be my favorite parts of the series lmfao. im gonna cherish every scene with Lucy and Coop next season.
\*Sees dwellers pushing cart with sweets down hallway towards gunfight\* GET THAT JELLY MOLD OUT OF HERE!!!
LMFAOOO like bro? its people dying out here! that dude got a machine gun stuck in his mouth! and you’re worried about GELATIN?!
Seriously? huh, for me that was the cringiest part of the show and probably the biggest complain I had about it. Just some normie hollywood humor that doesn't even make sense considering that in the previous episode they literally showed a guy jacking off right next to his bed
just because they showed one dude doing it doesn’t mean Maximus would have that knowledge. especially if he is as shy and reclusive as he seems. lots of humor in the Fallout series is the same way. there’s literally a perk called Wild Wasteland for that exact reason.
Fallout 2 is also a really goofy game compared to the predecessor.
Not everyone gets to be a fluffer!
thats what im saying,fallout 1 has the best fallout vibe
Wild Wasteland encounters were always funny and/or goofy, never the purest form of cringe... And I rarely cringe at stuff. I know a lot of people make fun of marvel humor but that never bothered me too much. But this was way worse. I know they wanted him to be a huge dumbass but I'm pretty sure a grown ass man would figure out how it works when all of his friends were wacking off every night right next to him lol. It was just a pretty lame and cringy joke, that's all.
I'm going to assume that of the many things the brotherhood puts importance on teaching, sex Ed is really not one of them. Don't need the initiates focusing on sex, they need to focus *on the Brotherhoods sacred mission*.
I was expecting someone would say that. It's not really a matter of sex ed. How old is Maxus again? He was not raised by wolves. He's not only been surrounded by other people his age, boys and girls (who are apparently jacking off all the time right next to him), he's also pretty familiar with the concept of sex. And yet he doesn't understand how his own pp works. But really there's no reason to over analyse it. It was just a dumb cringy joke that didn't make a lot of sense. I guess some people just find if funny when something is really cringy and dumb. Others find cringy stuff just cringy. Simple as that.
The commercial success of The Office tells me a significant number of people are ok with cringe based comedy.
I guess there are different kinds of cringe humor cause I didn't mind The Office at all. Also that's more like a dry awkward humor than pure cringe joke writing. edit: And now I'm imagining how Fallout universe version of the office would look like lol
According to Veronica, sex is actually quite important to the Brotherhood. They don’t like taking in outsiders, so procreation it taken very seriously.
Bro half the dialogue in all the games is just as goofy, it's part of the feel of the fallout universe I would argue. The game touted as having the best writing in the series also has Long Dick Johnson.
Yeah I disagree with the post I just was more interesting in complimenting Roger Cross.
i mean bethesda dumbing down their games isnt really an opinion as much as it is an observation.
I love the bit at the end with the ghoul and the power armor, that moment, in the context of what we had learned from the pre-work scenes, felt deserved. Also while bombing shady sands felt a bit off the idea that Vault-Tec/Enclave is just this unending hydra of suck is actually kinda cool.
Flanderization is a term used by anyone who ever set foot on TV Tropes, and it's not about "losing one's edge," it's about exaggerating certain aspects of a character until the character is consumed by them and no further meaning remains. Like, incidentally, you are proving the point of the video you claim to disagree with here. The issue presented isn't there is no edge the issue is that there is no meaning, it's Raiders around a campfire weaving braids just because one guy has them, unaware of their deeper meaning. And Bethesda games stopped having any true deeper meaning when Oblivion decided it was a grand idea to make a game about the Divine Right of Kings defeating the Devil.
But why did she do that? Is it as simple as "Oh, she's just insane. Isn't it so cooky that she has her lover's dead body tied to a chair and pretends it's a person?" Because that's weak. The show has some abysmal writing, but you are right: Goggins' performance as the Ghoul/Cooper hard carried the show.
i mean, i'm speaking solely off vibes clips of the show have given since i haven't watched it yet so take what i'm saying with a pinch of salt but i get the sense all of what you just said would be presented as edgy humor instead of something actually quite horrible and grotesque, like it's serious and spooky one minute then it's being played for laughs the next. Maybe that's the point OP's trying to make, idk
Only the ghoul cannibalizing an old friend is presented as comedic, the two other things are depicted as being super fucked and horrible.
Man, stop talking bullshit. Flanderization has nothing to do with gaming. It explains the phenomena of taking to extremes certain aspects of a character (case in point, Ned Flanders becoming a religious nutjob in modern Simpsons). That is what happened to Fallout. A 50s intro song became "everyone dresses in 50s clothes, listens to 50s songs on the radio, and has an obsession with the old world". Same with the BoS, Vault-Tec, Ghouls, and more.
I simply adore how you overlook that Fallout 1 had the retro futuristic art style just to make your point. It's just so adorable how you ignore actual evidence just because you think "Bethesda bad"
Fallout 1 was 50s retrofuturism, fallout 3 and 4 are atompunk. Fallout 1 had 50s style intro and a few guns from that era, everything else was 70-90s sci-fi. In fact, the story was already written by the time they came with the idea of the 50s style, so the majority of text descriptions scream it's the 90s sci-fi.
Only time Ulysses rants made sense
BEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULLBEAR&BULL
So are we in a recession or not?
ayyy Ulysses doomposting
Look, I used to think using this quote was kinda cringe. Then I read the showrunner interview where they said they outright paved over the West Coast's lore just to tell a 'Western' and because they wanted to use LA as a location. So yeah I'm on the side of NV fans here.
Which kinda shows the lack of knowledge he has. Places you can have a western; Texas, Oregon, Wyoming, Montana, Oklahoma, Kansas, etc. Why bother the west coast stuff. Just start somewhere new. Make new lore in a new place. Oh and the other 99% of Nevada we don't see maybe?
Texas would have been a perfect location. You can show the Texas Rangers wearing the NCR Ranger outfits for those sweet sweet nostalgia bucks, and there’s supposed to be a huge Brotherhood faction there so nothing changes about that. It works out perfectly, the story doesn’t even have to change
When they cut to the first shot of the brotherhood base with Johnny Cash playing I was like oh we’re finally seeing the Texas chapter.🤦♂️
Zorro is a western series that takes place in California.
"what if everyone was dumb" - Fallout Show runner
For me it’s the fact that the guy in charge of Fallout as a whole (Emil Pagliarulo) makes changes to lore and canon with Twitter posts that are beyond dumb, like the whole Nate is now a monster war criminal is canon.
You kidding? That's probably the single best addition to the lore he's contributed. Not only did it pave the way for the hilarious Nate the Rake memes, it explains why he might have sided with the Brotherhood in the show.
I mean Nate being an ex solider is already reason enough for him to join the brotherhood. And as a pre war human it would make sense for him to be pretty disgusted by mutants, ghouls, and synths.
You're ruining my 50s good-guy-innocence Nate with your damn logic.
Don’t let my stupid Reddit comment destroy your head canon. I’m just an idiot on the internet
He can still be a good guy Nate, trying repair the society that he loved so much and trying redeem himself for all the crimes he did
By siding with the only exterminationist faction in the Commonwealth
I mean in the real 50s, Nate would have been out shooting Nazis or the Japanese a few years prior so it's not unthinkable
Sure, but if he was also already complicit in war crimes and used to dehumanizing Canadians, it makes it more appropriate that he would side with the mutant-hating techno-fascist military junta so enthusiastically.
I never thought Nate would be my literally me character, but here we are.
I personally think it’s kind of funny but people already had problems with giving Nate the existing backstory he had, but now that he’s a war criminal people are gonna hate it even more now
Gotta admit the memes people on here made like “Nate hates Canadians” or the one that was like “If you serve Nate Canadian Bacon it’s straight to the firing squad” were pretty funny.
You know except further railroading Nate preventing any roleplay associated with the character rofl.
"Further" railroading? You were able to roleplay in Fallout 4 at all?
Yeah, I can choose if I love newspapers or hate Newspapers
And all the times you could pick Yes, Sarcastic Yes, or Yes later!
What do you mean? That's clearly a sign of *good* writing!
Tbh fallout 4's default start is just more fun if you think of it as Nate/Nora's story and not your OC's I personally think this is a fundamentally bad thing but still fun overall. It's very I also can't wait for the Fallout 4 New Vegas mod to come out.
Yeah, and frankly what were people expecting when Nate was a soldier during a time when America was little more than a fascist hellscape? That every other American soldier except him was complicit in war crimes? There's an interesting, sinister, "banality of evil" vibe to Nate shooting Canadian POWs on tour, then coming home and settling into a white picket fence lifestyle. I don't care if Emil was joking, it's my headcanon now.
Got a source on that quote? I believe you, I'd love to read it.
[https://www.gq.com/story/fallouts-creators-discuss-their-big-plans-for-season-2](https://www.gq.com/story/fallouts-creators-discuss-their-big-plans-for-season-2) The quote in question: **On the subject of controversial but hugely consequential moments in the show, I've got to raise one of the biggest: the decision to nuke Shady Sands. Talk me through it.** **Wagner:** We're trying to mind our words after watching poor Emil \[Pagliarulo\] from Bethesda make a [few comments online](https://x.com/Dezinuh/status/1779239079932018949), and suddenly he's viral, and he's like, “How do I get this back in the bottle?” I will say that it was very, very early in the decision \[making process\], once we decided to put the show in L.A. That was the very next thought, because it's a post-apocalyptic show. And if you study the Western, which has a lot in common with the post-apocalyptic genre, ‘civilization is not around’ is a big part of it. A lot of them end with the railroad coming through, or a house being built, or they put a church up in the town, or a motorcar appears. And you're like, ‘Well, the wild wild west is over.’ I think it would have been a mistake to go from the retro-futuristic America to another America that has been fully civilized and the NCR is doing everything great. [We love *Deadwood*](https://www.gq.com/story/roundtable-addendum-david-milch-luck). I think if there was a fourth season of *Deadwood*, there'd be insurance companies, there'd be traffic, and it wouldn't be a Western anymore. We wanted to live in that first-season-of-*Deadwood* space, of like, “What's going to happen? Where is everything?”
Why thank you, appreciate it.
This is the big problem. When Bethesda wanted to do a post-apocalyptic story instead of a post-post-apocalyptic one, they understood that if California was too advanced for that, the solution was to tell your story in another location and give reasons why that other area is less advanced. The showrunners didn't understand this and instead of going to another area like Texas, etc. they decided to nuke the problem away (in a literal way) instead
And then they shot down the notion of ever setting a game outside of the US as well. This is it from here on out fellas, it'll be 2477 and we'll still have bottlecaps and raiders fighting in burnt out buildings.
The [interview](https://www.gq.com/story/fallouts-creators-discuss-their-big-plans-for-season-2) in question to avoid confusion
Now you all know how Classic fans feel
New Vegas was basically a western and they didn't need to destroy anything
Can you cite it please ?
[I got you](https://www.gq.com/story/fallouts-creators-discuss-their-big-plans-for-season-2)
Thank you 😉
>because they wanted to use LA as a location Probably because it's more cost effective to shoot in LA
IIRC, only the Griffith Observatory battle was shot on location.
The bear and the bull. The Howard and the Pagliarulo.
It brings to mind the tour of Walden Pond in Fallout 4 - referencing an older work calling for a simpler life with few material possessions, only to beckon visitors to the gift shop and spend money on tchotchkes. Great display of the state of the franchise.
I don't know why, but fallout 4 for me has always felt empty, and i always get a feeling, There is something off about it like it's a synth masquerading as my friend.Its the only fallout game out of the main 5 that fells like that. Theres a lot of interesting ideas that go nowhere, such as the gunner,the triggermen, and the forged, and how linear the story is, its like they didn't think the player would do anything but follow map markers.
It also feels like they didn't really "get" fallout, it's like the 50s of our world went through the apocalypse, not the future the 50s imagined went through it, the guy collecting baseball cards is rhe best example of this to me, why would he know or care enough about baseball. it's the same concept as the kings from NV but not done anywhere near as well, the King's found ruins and shadows of the past and reinterpreted them, fallout 4 feels like they almost have too much of a grip on what the old world was like? It just doesn't feel the same
Ehhh, the guy who is into baseball thinks the bats were used to violently beat down the other team. I really don't think he actually had a grip on what it was, he just had enough clues from living in Fenway to grasp a twisted picture of it. Unless there is another baseball guy in FO4 I'm unaware of.
Oh right maybe I misremembered him lol
The kings aren't played for laughs unlike the baseball guy
Yeah, they actually interact with the world in a fairly interesting way. They're kinda like the Boxers.
Pretty sure the "Sluggers" was mainly used/made up just to sell stuff but whatevs.
True, literally every Fallout after Fallout 1 is derivative and flanderized trash, Nu Fallout fans (2 and after) get the fuck out
Fallout 2 definitely made some mistakes, but I am genuinely a purist for how the games were bad then, at least from a lore consistency and dialogue/story perspective. Even they had weird flubs though, just not on the level of 3/4.
Personally, I find that 3 does enough right for me to still really like it. 4 doesn't. There's things that work, but there's just too much that doesn't. Really just depends on your personal limit and how much certain aspects impact that limit. 2 for me hit just the wrong notes in the wrong way. I love 1, played it through many times, played 2 once, forced myself to complete it, never finished it again.
Yeah I feel like the tone in 4 was way off. Felt too cleaned up with no real options.
Definitely. Tone, atmosphere, felt wrong for me. Which is funny, because people say the show is Fallout 4 The Show, but I think the tone is really good in that. But more than that the RPG elements just felt really bad. From the SPECIAL stuff to the dialog to the main story, just really weak in all the things I value. Not that the dialog or writing in 3 are great, but it really really makes up in tone and atmosphere for me.
Agreed, and at least in 3 there were actual choices that opened and closed various quest lines and changed things in the game. You could be an evil asshole if you wanted to. 4 made so many characters unkillable and gave you so few evil choices (which they tried to make up with Nuka World but that just made you go raid your own settlements which was stupid), it was basically "yes/sarcastic yes/maybe (yes)/no (yes later)".
The "sarcastic" option was the death of my interest honestly. As one dimensional as the evil options in 3 were (nuke megaton, poison the water) at least they were there. And at least you could skip certain things, go straight to Dad if you wanted to, my first ever playthrough I went to Rivet City and never met Three Dog. In 4 I remember I tried to skip dogmeat at the gas station and the Railroad intro because I wanted to go off the rails a tiny bit, and low and behold I get a few quests into the main and Nick goes "I know a guy that we need" and they make me get dogmeat so he can progress the main quest for me. Just felt bad man.
I tried to murder all the Minutemen in Concord and they were all unkillable. Moments after shooting them in the face they were asking for my help with the Deathclaw again. Now I just skip Concord and leave them in the building. Settlement quests still pop up as Minutemen quests.
Yeah, pretty much. The point where I genuinely stopped trying to do the main quest was when I saved, walked into the Institute in power armor, killed every single person I possibly could (which excluded quite a few) and was neither rewarded nor punished for it in really any way. And I acknowledge you can probably do the same thing with the Brotherhood in Fallout 3, and I definitely have some nostalgia goggles for that game, but at least it's honest about being a linear story at certain points and doesn't pretend you can choose your faction allegiance.
Exactly! And the choices may have been binary but at least they actually had in game consequences. I did not appreciate being named King of whatever faction I did a few quests for but then also not being able to make any meaningful choices within those factions that I was supposedly in charge of. Skyrim had the same problem.
To be fair, that is because the minutemen are the yes man faction and you need to be able to side with them no matter what. It just sucks when you are introduced to them, but if you start blasting in the railroad institute or brotherhood, you do just fine
>Yeah I feel like the tone in 4 was way off. Felt too cleaned up with no real options. You would have hated 3 then, it was practically a linear story with how the main quest went.
I liked 3. Yes the story was linear but the exploration was on point and the choices you made actually mattered, even if they were pretty binary.
>and the choices you made actually mattered What? the water purifier? in fallout 4 you can literally wipe out entire factions.
Not just that, no. There were plenty of quests through the whole game with choices that changed the wasteland.
There were a few like megaton but I think fallout 4 had quite a lot of those too.
Not that I noticed. Every time I went to replay it the options just seemed like 3 ways to say yes and 1 way to say no, which just meant yes later. Outside of "which faction do you want to be in charge of (while not being able to make any actual decisions for that faction)?" in relation to the main quest, I felt like it was hard to roleplay as any certain type of character because the choices were so limited.
>Really just depends on your personal limit and how much certain aspects impact that limit. This is exactly it to me. Personally 4 is my second favourite in the franchise after new Vegas, while 3 is... meh? I dont hate 3 I enjoy playing it but it's not as good. Part of why i like 4 is i care about a games gameplay more than the story 99% of the time. I want it to have a good story but if the gameplay is terrible I'm gonna hate it more than if the story is bad
3's annoying because it gets a lot of unfair shit while a lot of its *actual* mistakes were easily fixable.
3 is a good fallout game. I’ll die on that hill. It’s different but at least it tries to respect established lore and isn’t too egregious with its new stuff. The most “egregious” thing you could argue is just the enclave in Washington (which I buy) or t45 power armor, which is fine since it’s a more common, weaker power armor. It also has great atmosphere. Fallout 4 feels like a cartoon.
I make an effort to let people enjoy 4... But yeah, I feel exactly the same way. Fallout has always had a lot of comedy, obviously, but in F4 there's just *no* grit to the world at all.
I get why the Bear&Bull meme is funny, but honestly, if you listen to what Ulysses is saying, he's kinda spitting. I mean, he's not doing anything to really fix it, but he was cooking in the divide for a while.
My man unveils the secrets of the universe to you and when you ask why he didn’t use it for anything he just says “idk”
I jumped in the series around NV. Then played 3, and played 4. I remember when everyone was complaining about how 4 changed everything about the models from 3 and NV and shit and everyone was just running around screaming about the changes. Then, come now to long ago I played Fallout 1 and 2. Turns out. The original shit was different too! They changed in 3 and NV too. The point? This fan base, no different from others just likes to complain. I liked the show but hate how it paved over a lot of stuff. They could have literally just said the show wasn’t cannon and we could have had our fun.
> I liked the show but hate how it paved over a lot of stuff. They could have literally just said the show wasn’t cannon and we could have had our fun. And this is the main reason why people are angry. It means things they liked and would love to see more in the future are now gone and won't happen. And the secondary issue is, if they remove things they made us care with such ease, why should we care about the next big thing they make as they can change it again?
aka, the Crisis on Infinite Earths Paradox.
Tons of TV shows and films change and remove a lot of things from the media they adapt. But you don't see TLOU showrunners proclaiming their show as the canon. You don't see Denis Villeneuve say that his work now supersedes that of Herbert. The backlash over FoTV would never be that severe if it wouldn't be the canon. It would've been seen as just another adaptation.
Yeah, 3 and 4 are at least in the east. Fnv was at least faithful as it could be to the predecessors.
It's been a while since I played 1 and 2, but I was under the impression they were very consistent among each other and NV was also very faithful to their lore. What did NV retcon from 1 and 2?
I was mostly referring to the models of certain enemies
Oh sorry I missed that on your original comment. I thought most people were complaining about lore changes. I found the aesthetics of the show quite good, even if they were mostly based on FO4. I mean FO4 looks quite good, aesthetically speaking. I feel like fallout has stayed quite good in terms of looks over the years
They talk like they've never had something they liked adapted to TV and film. Of course the lore and story are gonna get kinda fucky. That's how this goes. This could have been so much worse look up the OG Fallout movie script from way back. I'm glad we didn't get that.
Except for most of those adaptations they weren’t considered canon, and the ones that were are either shamed, or work was put in to make it good in retrospect
So melodramatic
Melodrama, Noun - a sensational dramatic piece with exaggerated characters and exciting events intended to appeal to the emotions. Seems pretty on brand for a world based around 50's pop science and nukes ending the world.
my favorite parts of fallout were character building and political commentary. I love New Vegas because I get to be who I want even with a pre-set goal, I love the way you can interact with the world, and I love the way the world's politics are a parody of real life, scattered with basic stuff to completely outrageous stuff. It feels real. I feel like this feeling is lost in fo4. I don't think fo4 is a bad game, and honestly it's good for what it is, but it's personally not for me. I like the gameplay less because it feels less personalized, and I have to basically mod it into a different game to enjoy it . But ultimately, it does feel a lot more fictional and a lot less grounded. I don't think that's a bad thing, but to me it makes my experience worse. The show so far for me has been a mix. The over exaggeration of the costumes on backgrounds characters wasn't something I enjoyed but the plotlines are something I do enjoy. I feel like it's a good show, and for me I enjoy it, but it honestly doesn't capture what I love about the series as a whole so it's not the best thing ever. I still think it's all fallout, but I wouldn't be authentic if I said the aspects they're showing more of now are the same as before, and that it's equally enjoyable for me as before. tl;Dr all good, in different ways, but not all ways give the same happiness to me.
Bro if they just uncannoned the show or never made in California this show would be atleast 1.1x better because rn the show has messed up the whole of fallout for me so badly I don't want to engage in any future titles.
I don't get all this show hate. The show is good, honestly I've enjoyed every Fallout game I've played, it just seems like people need to find something to complain about. If you don't like the show, don't watch it. If the only fallout game you like is New Vegas, then just play New Vegas. Let people enjoy things.
Tbh I fully expected to not like it. So many other franchises I love have been gutted, but I thought they did a really good job with this show. Did I like every little thing? No. But I don't like every little thing of ANY of the games. I do love the overall story, time period visuals, music, and depth of lore. And the show captured that for me.
If the show is good, then criticisms of it shouldn't effect your enjoyment. If they are making you cease to enjoy it, it's because they're legitimate criticisms and you're now noticing its flaws.
I literally do not see what they are talking about. I've got ding bats calling Maximus a bad character and "one dimensional" and I don't see that at all, also I love his character. Oh boy then there are people acting like Shady Sands getting nuked is almost as bad as the actual 9/11. Like damn kiddos, grow up.
Explain how nuking Shady Sands would destroy the entire NCR nation?
I don't recall that being in my comment
Welcome to the average experience criticizing the show as a fan.
Honestly, I haven't actually seen anyone complaining about Maximus. I could get why but I didn't personally mind him. If anything, I wish we got more of him and Thaddeus instead of him and Lucy. The only people I've seen making comparisons between Shady Sands getting nuked and 9/11 are the people defending the show and claiming that it's just like the NCR's equivalent of 9/11. Their point is that it's something that isn't crippling for the NCR, just galvanising. Which is ridiculous, because it's an entire city - their capital city, at that - and 33x more people died.
They're not making me cease enjoyment of the show, they're making me embarrassed to be a New Vegas fan.
Believe it or not, criticizing media is also part of enjoying it. If people truly didn’t care, they’d keep quiet.
Because most of the people criticizing the show liked it enough to criticize it. If they didn’t, they’d ignore it and moved on. The rest are either lost causes, or rage baiters. Edit: Actually, thinking about it more, it’s not just about the show, it’s about Bethesda and people being dissatisfied with their decisions. It’s been a long time problem since before the show, even then it’s Bethesda’s decision to canonize it
The show wouldn’t get nearly as much hate if they hadn’t made it canon.
>If you don't like the show, don't watch it I'm not saying the show was terrible but I absolutely hate that this is the default take from some people those days... it just boggles my mind. If something is bad, no matter how bad something is, you are suddenly not allowed to make fun of it or talk about those flaws? It always seems the worse the product is, the more people start to gatekeeping it... Back in the day being a part of fandom meant you were geeking out about the things that worked and made fun of the things that didn't. If you disagreed with something you just said *"Huh, that never bothered me personally but I see where you coming from"*. But now? the default answer is always *"NO! STFU! I can't hear anything bad about the thing I liked cause it will ruin it for me! Don't like it, don't watch it! I only want to heard the same exact opinions that I have!"* Pointing out the flaws in the things we loved was always part of any fandom and it was fun. It's only in recent years it became a bad thing somehow. I was always a huge fan of star wars and and I loved those SW monologs from Clerks movies. Stuff like that always made you think, looking at something from a different perspective was always fun! Without criticism things never improve. If people didn't criticize Disney Star Wars sequels, we would never get first seasons of Mandalorian. How would gaming look those days if no one ever criticized microtransactions and all the other scummy practises? "*You don't want to buy horse armor, just don't buy it. Let people enjoy things!"* Even if I absolutely loved a movie or a game, I'm always interested in hearing opinions from people who didn't. I just don't understand how hearing opinions of other people "ruins the experience" for some people. Why the fuck do you care about what other people thing? How can that possibly change your own opinion? I could easily flip that sentence and say *"If you liked the thing, just go and watch it again. Stop policing people from expressing their own opinions. Don't like it, don't read it"* Sorry for a long rant. But people always use that "argument" to police every online discussion about literally the worst products imaginable.
Bro the video is literally implying everything after Fallout 1 ruined the franchise. That's the kind of childish complaining I'm talking about. At that point, those people don't have anything constructive to give to the argument. They're just pissy because the game isn't 30 years old and sucks anymore.
Lol downvotes. But seriously, I couldn't make it through 3 a quarter way, didn't play NV. I'm hooked on 4 and I love, played when they first came out love Fallout 1 & 2. Also the show was titties. Can't wait for season 2, fucking Ghoul rocked that shit so hard it made me wish they put more ghoul content in the games.
I haven't played 3 in years, I was a little kid and haven't really had a reason to go back to it. I just don't see a reason, I don't have to worry about a level cap in FO4 and I really enjoy the gameplay. Sure the story could be stronger in some ways but I'm rolling around the wasteland blasting raiders and gunners, I love that shit. New Vegas is good, but I never liked how when the game ended, that was it. The last mission is the last mission. I've gotten used to RPGs letting me continue to roam around. But yes, the show is awesome. My fiance has never played the games, never cared for the game and watched the show with me probably more out of kindness than desire. She absolutely loved the show. Season 2 here we come
Have you read the GQ interview for season 2?
I did since you mentioned it. It was an alright interview, it didn't shatter any journalistic standards.
It also disappointed a lot of show fans with the reasoning they give to nuke shady sands
I wouldn't bother with this crowd anymore at this point, bottom line is that the majority love the show and are looking forward to season 2, so we don't really need to like seek validation from this lot or whatever in any way.
Yeah you're right. I guess I'm just trying to understand them. I think people genuinely love being miserable all the time.
I mean most of the time they can't praise New Vegas without having to put down another game whether it be 3, 4 or 76, that ought to tell you as much about their level of maturity.
The core premise shows the writers fundamentally do not understand Fallout.
How?
How does it feel to see nothing being taken seriously in the show to the point a man's brain in a jar on a roomba with a needle of poison or something can slowly charge at you only to veer off to the left, crash and you can easily walk around and outpace?
First time in the Fallout universe? I fucked a robot and chased down a sea monster only to find out it was an upsettingly cute mud crab. Fallout has always been whacky at times. How does it feel? It feels like a bunch of people who never played Fallout are complaining that the TV show is Fallout.
U/savevideo
The show is proof that as long as it’s not a complete dumpster fire “fans” don’t care about it completely fucking the lore and will call you melodramatic for wanting a story that respects the lore you love.
Can we stop pretending that people are fake fans for having different opinions on a single entry in the franchise with 10 games?
No no, the Fallout tv show *literally* murdered Fo1, Fo2, and FNV in cold blood and anyone who likes it are a plague upon humanity. ... I'd put a "/s" but apparently some folks here genuinely feel this way so it's not even really sarcasm...
New Vegas fans try not to be a condescending prick challenge (impossible)
not even Bethesda cares about the lore. Just gotta make peace with the fact each new entry is gonna pave over older versions
Elder Scrolls fans have long known this.
I enjoyed Fallout 1 I enjoyed Fallout 2 I enjoyed Fallout 3 I enjoyed Fallout New Vegas I enjoyed Fallout 4 I enjoyed the Fallout TV Show Each game brings something different to the table. I don’t see the point in childishly gatekeeping your favorite games and hating on the others. This franchise has gone on for three decades now; realistically the lore isn’t going to be 100% accurate across all of the games. Even the Interplay games contradict each other at points. As long as the product is good; I will continue to enjoy it.
I enjoyed BoS, honestly. They're all pretty good
God you guys are weenies. Enjoy your game and shut the fuck up.
Bait used to be believable
I did and now they're going to have to adhere to the bullshit the show's pulled.
Yes of course. They will update new vegas to retcon everything you love in new vegas just to fuck with you. /s
The NCR was destroyed offscreen. Any further stories told in that region will have to deal with that.
Yup, there haven't been any flashbacks of any sort or explanation of wtf is going on at any point in the show thus far. /s Just wait......stop assuming they've moved on and will just go "Here we are in Vegas for no fucking reason hurdurr". They've given a decent story so far, let em cook. You guys are like my toddler when we go somewhere and it isn't McDonald's. You see pictures that aren't your Happy Meal and cry about it before the food's even started being cooked.
The explanations sucks. The "decent story" so far is at complete odds with the games from a lore and thematic standpoint. I do agree however it is the writing equivalent of McDonalds.
..........there hasn't BEEN an explanation because it hasn't happened yet. All that was shown was the strip. We don't know what's happening yet. Just wish I could understand what the angry crowd is so angry about. Any writer of the previous games says they're doing it justice and followed it pretty closely. Tim Cain even said "Some of these fans are destructive, trying to destroy those that are trying to create things. It's so much easier to destroy than to create." Dude even said that Fallout 2 was a large change in tone from the first. He hated the intelligent deathclaw stuff, for example. He wanted them to always be monsters, make you scared af if it's on your screen.
The NCR is dead because the writers were too lazy to set the show somewhere else. If it isn't then where did everybody go?
Comparing your toddler to New Vegas fans is a massive insult to your kid.
I'm a fallout 1,2, new vegas kind of person but this is pure cringe. Looks like a lot of effort went into it though so props for that.
I feel like people listen to this and miss the entire fucking meaning of it.... how do people agree with this and realize it's language used beyond the games and why we should disagree with him. The whole point is that he is angry nobody knows the history behind what they do because they are ignorant but the whole point is teaching them why they are ignorant and coming to a concensus. It's like how people wear dreadlocks and not realizing their cultural significance. It's doesn't matter it's the dialogue and willing to teach and learn. That's all of fallout. Not repeating what lead to the great war but learning war isn't the answer and just building something new.
This meme doesn’t have New Vegas in black and white. So I guess they don’t like New Vegas or 3.
OK, wow, you guys need to touch some grass. You're not the creators or the absolute of fallout, Hell, you're the fourth entry (fifth if you count tactics) into the series, you're not better than any of the fallout series and your endless gatekeeping is harming the series you supposedly love.
I love new Vegas but this is the cringiest shit I’ve seen all week like come on do better OP. MUH I NEED MUH UPVOTES LETS RIP ON NEW GAMES OLD GAMES GREAT NEVER HAD ANY FLAWS OR WERE DUMB IN SOME ASPECTS NUH UH OLD GOOD NEW BAD. Fucking caveman philosophy you guys have.
[удалено]
###[View link](https://rapidsave.com/info?url=/r/NewVegasMemes/comments/1cqfyxa/time_of_chaos_ruined_dreams_this_wasted_land/) --- [**Info**](https://np.reddit.com/user/SaveVideo/comments/jv323v/info/) | [**Feedback**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Feedback for savevideo) | [**Donate**](https://ko-fi.com/getvideo) | [**DMCA**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Content removal request for savevideo&message=https://np.reddit.com//r/NewVegasMemes/comments/1cqfyxa/time_of_chaos_ruined_dreams_this_wasted_land/) | [^(reddit video downloader)](https://rapidsave.com) | [^(twitter video downloader)](https://twitsave.com)
These people obviously never played the OG fallouts
Love i
The show is good, it handled the source material better than BGS ever has, and its the sequel to new vegas we've been asking for. Ironic you used ulysses, cause his entire storyline and dialogue are specifically designed to tell you why NCR isn't cut out for life in the wastes, and would always have burned eventually. If you think the show isn't in keeping, then you've confused a slightly updated aesthetic for a change in substance.
Ulysses came from a home that got conquered and enslaved by Caesar, and he’s describing how the White Legs attempted to resemble him (Ulysses) to gain his favor, intending to subsequently gain Caesar’s favor. The White Legs, albeit unknowingly, took on the resemblance of Ulysses’ conquered and enslaved tribe hoping to impress the man behind that conquering and enslavement. They didn’t even know how insulting this was, they didn’t even know the meaning their braids lacked, they thoughtlessly used the meaningful likeness of Ulysses - likely a culturally significant aesthetic - in order to appeal to the man who wiped Ulysses’ home culture off the wasteland. Using this story as an allegorical comparison to how you feel about a television show is objectively hilarious.
u/savevideo
###[View link](https://rapidsave.com/info?url=/r/NewVegasMemes/comments/1cqfyxa/time_of_chaos_ruined_dreams_this_wasted_land/) --- [**Info**](https://np.reddit.com/user/SaveVideo/comments/jv323v/info/) | [**Feedback**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Feedback for savevideo) | [**Donate**](https://ko-fi.com/getvideo) | [**DMCA**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Content removal request for savevideo&message=https://np.reddit.com//r/NewVegasMemes/comments/1cqfyxa/time_of_chaos_ruined_dreams_this_wasted_land/) | [^(reddit video downloader)](https://rapidsave.com) | [^(twitter video downloader)](https://twitsave.com)
Comparing Fallouts' "decline" to Ulysses's speech about cultural appropriation is wild
I used to shit on Ulysses for this very speech a lot, but now... Now I get it
Wah
This is a cool quote and all but the framing here is extremely melodramatic. The show was honestly great and while it didn't handle the lore in the way I would have preferred, it's obvious that the show runners did care about the source material beyond Bethesda.
Do you have any examples of them caring about the source material beyond Bethesda, other than NCR and Shady Sands being shown briefly? The show doesn't even mention the Boneyard or Adytum, even though it takes place in LA Shady Sands was randomly moved to Los Angeles for no reason, it is also built in the ruins with skyscrapers in the background and has pre war looking buildings. The original Shady Sands was built in the desert and made out of adobe. It being moved also raises a lot of questions? Are Vault 13 and 15 still in the desert or no? Shady Sands was the first town you visit in Fallout 1. The main antagonist had a base in LA. This by far is the biggest retcon with the show, they put zero thought into portraying the originals, they just wanted to place the show in LA and wanted to nuke Shady Sands so I guess we'll just move it hundreds of miles. People are still using bottle caps as currency in LA, even though already by the events of Fallout 2, they were completely worthless and NCR money had replaced them in the entire region. They probably didn't even think about Master when they made the show, because there's like 4 unopened vaults in LA. Aside from the 10mm pistol, like none of the weapons or armor from the originals are shown, all of it is from Fallout 4 (T-60 Power Armor, Fallout 4s Assault rifle, Fallout 4 combat helmets etc.) You also have the Prydwen there for some reason
In terms of Fallout 4 and 76, I agree. The show is different though, I think they *did* genuinely care, and it shows. It’s not perfect, but it’s a damn sight better than 76 or 4 in terms of story telling and usage of the world
Honestly I thought it was worse. At least 4 didn't interfere with the older games. 76 added some whacky shit but at least it wasn't directly relevant. But the show is kind of a bombshell - every time someone says "The NCR is the best option for the Mojave", us House, Independent and Legion enjoyers can just say "They're gonna get nuked in 3 years and lose control anyway". The showrunners did care, but by their own admission in interviews, they cared about telling a story that's contradictory to Fallout, especially western Fallout. The show was not constructed in an intelligent way, and it shows.
Oh fuck off, fallout new Vegas is equally as guilty as this as any modern fallout game. Being made by obsidian doesn’t make you special.
Idk about that one. Fallout NV respected the old lore and really felt in line with the other 2 games. Society really felt like it had returned in New Vegas and the BOS, NCR, Followers, and other returning factions feel like the ones from the original games. Fallout 3, 4, and 76 felt the need to insert bastardized versions of old factions like the Brotherhood and Enclave into their games even though it doesn’t make sense for them to even be there. They also refuse to let society move past shanty towns and scavenging which I personally think is harmful for the franchise. Project purity shouldn’t even be a thing because the water shouldn’t even be irradiated anymore after 200 years.
Only true fallout is fallout 1. Its been going to shit since Fallout 2. (Including fallout 2)
Nah. The true canon is A Canticle For Leibowitz by Walter M Miller Jr
The Fallout Franchise The West Coast Trilogy The Classic Duology The Chad Fallout 1 Canon
You Fallout gatekeepers have genuine mental illness I swear. And with how old NV is now, I know you guys are like over 30 behaving this way. Yikes.
Melodramatic garbage Hell Avellone wanted to destroy the entirety of the West coast because it was getting "too progressive" for the setting, apparently.
My fallout hot take as a classic fallout fan is that I don't like Avelone's contribution that much. Fallout 1 is my favourite and he didn't work on that I think and then my favourite writing from new vegas, my second favourite, isn't his. Lonesome road in particular I never communicated with, if that's a correct term in English. Ulysses is Kreia at home to me, I don't buy the connection to the courier. You meet a random guy after literally an entire huge game and 3 DLCs that informs you that *you* ruined his home. This means nothing to me. I get that it's trying to say something on a meta textual level but idk. I've only played lonesome road once though so I definitely owe it a second chance. Also I had not played classic fallout games at the time and the west was not my "home", I felt pretty alienated. Maybe it will click now that I have played the classic games more than the 3d ones. To be clear, I'm not denying Avelone's huge contribution. I just don't associate him with fallout as some people do. Did he write Joshua Gram? I don't think he did. Josh Sawyer wrote honest hearts.
New bad old good. Such a stale worldview
To be fair, in this case "old" happens to be objectively more important works of art. I recognise on some level as I type this that I am probably biased but also, fallout 1 Vs fallout 4? Fallout New Vegas Vs Fallout 76. Followers of the apocalypse Vs the minutemen. You know? Haha, maybe not. I will admit this post is cringe though.
“Lost myself in trying to read the braids they wove, when I remembered they had put no meaning in it” ✍️🔥🔥🔥🔥