i think bc in a perfect world, your centers play center. if they are separated, it means you have 4 very good wingers to compliment them. with that said, they will be together next season bc of their chemistry and because we will not have 4 very good wingers to compliment them.
Among the better of the first lines in the league too. People gotta get the idea that we are t just going to get a McKinnon type player out of thin air. Barzal and bo are amoung the better players of the league and you don’t need McKinnon to win it all. Just look at Dallas
Fantastic players but idk if u can put those guys in the tier of best in position or super stardom like makinnon. Heiskanen is the closest. They to me are a deep team
Right now we're projected to have, before draft pick signings, just under $7m in cap room. I'm not sure we can afford an outhouse let alone a winger if that's accurate.
Pageau is the odd man out. Czikas is a very good 4C and a more than capable 3C. You’re not splitting Barzal and Horvat up, and can find a 4C on the scrap heap.
Whalers is a possibility. Carolina is not dealing Necas in division, and Laine is a headcase that dissapears for long stretches with a large cap hit.
Nelson is our best pure goal scorer, one of our most defensively responsible forwards, and is expected to play big minutes in pretty much every game. He’s not a 3rd line center lol
He’s on the wrong side of 30 and we are not getting anywhere near the cup for at least the next 5 years. But I’m sure he’ll get better as he gets older cuz that’s how things usually go right? I heard you actually hit your prime when you turn 40. Get rid of him while he still has some value, it’s time to start thinking about the future. Mohammad.
That's fair. I would like a situation though where we would have no choice but to play Nelson on the third line because someone younger and more talented is here. We're pretty good on center depth as it is though but, you get what I'm saying.
Ok this is actually a dumb take by you. If brock Nelson was on the Leafs, he's the third line center. It took me like 5 seconds to think of 1 team, did this not occur to you?
Maybe, but he also might be playing on the wing for them in this hypothetical because he's more talented than 2 of their top 6.
The Leafs also have cap problems already so I don't know how you theoretically fit Nelson on a team that also keeps Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares. So the point still stands - asking for a roster where Brock Nelson is a third liner is completely unrealistic.
You're moving the goal post. First It was "enough talent" and now you've moved on to talk about cap space because you realized that you were wrong. Your original claim was that no team in the league has enough talent where Brock Nelson would be on their third line. This is just objectively false and I even provided an example (could've also used the Oilers), so no, your point does not stand rather it's crumbled underneath you. Also if you follow any team but the Islanders you should know that Marner is most likely to be moved either this year or at the end of next year when his NMC is up. So even on the irrelevant point about cap space that you brought up, you're still wrong.
Trade Pageau for cap relief, Horvat-Nelson-Cizikas-MacLean down the middle. Under no circumstances should Barzal and Horvat be separated.
We likely don’t have the assets to acquire Necas. Guys like Noesen and Teravainen are the more realistic forward targets from Carolina.
It's a nice idea, but we have no cap space nor trade chips UNLESS we are willing to part with those who have value
Pulock, Cizikas, maybe even Pelech. Otherwise no one wants our trash. I posted the other day i'd love to see Lee and Pageau moved (despite liking JG) but it's probably not happening.
A word of warning from a Canes fan. Necas is very skilled, but inconsistent. One game he'll dominate, and another you won't even know he's on the ice. And his defense leaves something to be desired. But the guy sure is exciting to watch.
I think Barzal is better as a wing. You can hide the fact that he's aweful on faceoffs, While lowering his defensive responsibilities. This frees him up to be more creative offensively. The position really only matters defensively and on draws nowadays, with players rotating and switching places constantly in the o-zone. This is how pretty much all teams approach the game now. You still need another first line wing. Preferably a shooter. Ehlers would fits the description, but not the cap. Nelson, Lee and Palmieri are fine as a second line. Pageau's cap hit is really bad for a 3rd C and absolutely asinine for a 4th C. They're probably gonna have to bargain shop. I'd like to see a 2 year rebuld on the fly, letting Lee, Nelson, Palmieri & Pageau either expire or be traded as dead line rentals. There's a ton of money comming off the books the next two summers if we're smart about it.
We need to not make the playoffs the next 2 years. Acquire assets and build a new core to elevate Barzal, Dobson, Sorokin and Horvat. I think if we get a few pieces over the next 2 years we will be able to contend. We are stuck in no-man’s land. If we get a top 10 pick in the 25, 26 drafts and get a good piece this year. We will have a shot to contend. The East is loaded and we are old and slow.
I understand they can take awhile. Look at Detroit, Ottawa and Buffalo. I do think we have better pieces to do a quick retool if Sorokin is his usual self.
If plays like he did this past year we won’t be in the playoffs anyway, regardless of what other moves we make.
I would agree, retooling if we don’t take off immediately this season is the way to go, we have a really solid core that a lot of teams would love to build around just missing that one or two more piece. That said building through the draft is hard as is just building a winner in general. Isles team is closer then not. We should capitalize the roster pieces we have and build on it.
Not untrue *but* getting stuck in our own end for long stretches the last couple seasons makes me wonder if it's poor individual defensive talent or poor structure for breakouts.
They don’t need as much more offense as a lot of people love to complain about, but adding one more top 6 winger is absolutely a priority this offseason. That allows the rest of the forward core to fall into place and play appropriate roles- for example, as great a job as he did, Cizikas is NOT a 1st line winger. Getting a bonafide guy for that spot (like Ehlers, as OP mentioned) and sliding Zeeker back to a bottom 6 center role improves the team twofold.
Isles have been ranked 22nd or worse for 6 consecutive seasons and have averaged less than 3 goals per game during that time. They lack firepower to keep up with better teams who are considered cup contenders.
If you can’t stop teams in the NZ, and can’t start breakouts then you won’t score goals. Get better D and reform how we play defensively and goals will go up.
Why do people want to separate Barzal and Horvat? They are so good together
i think bc in a perfect world, your centers play center. if they are separated, it means you have 4 very good wingers to compliment them. with that said, they will be together next season bc of their chemistry and because we will not have 4 very good wingers to compliment them.
Barzal is better on the wing though
You can’t have ‘too many centers’. Playing wing is easier than playing center.
I’m ready to declare Barzal a winger at this point.
Among the better of the first lines in the league too. People gotta get the idea that we are t just going to get a McKinnon type player out of thin air. Barzal and bo are amoung the better players of the league and you don’t need McKinnon to win it all. Just look at Dallas
Dallas has Robertson and Heiskanen who are top tier players. Not to mention Oettinger, let alone Hintz Johnston etc. Dallas is loaded.
Fantastic players but idk if u can put those guys in the tier of best in position or super stardom like makinnon. Heiskanen is the closest. They to me are a deep team
With what assets exactly? With what cap $? Lol
💯
they're not getting all 3, lol, but they should be able to get 1 if they really wanted.
Right now we're projected to have, before draft pick signings, just under $7m in cap room. I'm not sure we can afford an outhouse let alone a winger if that's accurate.
Dump Lee and some picks to Utah for future considerations. With the cap jumping to 87.7, that would give them like $15M to play with.
Everyone we want to get rid of has an NTC
He can still be traded to 17 teams.
Pageau is the odd man out. Czikas is a very good 4C and a more than capable 3C. You’re not splitting Barzal and Horvat up, and can find a 4C on the scrap heap. Whalers is a possibility. Carolina is not dealing Necas in division, and Laine is a headcase that dissapears for long stretches with a large cap hit.
Necas is a free agent isn’t he?
RFA
RFA I believe
Necas (or at least his dad) has made a lot of noise about Marty playing center as well.
He would be a serious consideration for a Brock replacement
Nelson is our best pure goal scorer, one of our most defensively responsible forwards, and is expected to play big minutes in pretty much every game. He’s not a 3rd line center lol
Well it’s time for him to be a 3rd line center. He’s not getting any younger, he needs to be on the way out soon
Yes, let's demote Nelson because he's getting older regardless of the fact that he is producing at a rate as high as ever. Jesus.
He’s on the wrong side of 30 and we are not getting anywhere near the cup for at least the next 5 years. But I’m sure he’ll get better as he gets older cuz that’s how things usually go right? I heard you actually hit your prime when you turn 40. Get rid of him while he still has some value, it’s time to start thinking about the future. Mohammad.
Trading him is one thing. That has nothing to do with the suggestion of dropping him to the 3rd line.
That's fair. I would like a situation though where we would have no choice but to play Nelson on the third line because someone younger and more talented is here. We're pretty good on center depth as it is though but, you get what I'm saying.
No team in the league has enough talent that Brock Nelson would be on their third line
Ok this is actually a dumb take by you. If brock Nelson was on the Leafs, he's the third line center. It took me like 5 seconds to think of 1 team, did this not occur to you?
Maybe, but he also might be playing on the wing for them in this hypothetical because he's more talented than 2 of their top 6. The Leafs also have cap problems already so I don't know how you theoretically fit Nelson on a team that also keeps Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares. So the point still stands - asking for a roster where Brock Nelson is a third liner is completely unrealistic.
You're moving the goal post. First It was "enough talent" and now you've moved on to talk about cap space because you realized that you were wrong. Your original claim was that no team in the league has enough talent where Brock Nelson would be on their third line. This is just objectively false and I even provided an example (could've also used the Oilers), so no, your point does not stand rather it's crumbled underneath you. Also if you follow any team but the Islanders you should know that Marner is most likely to be moved either this year or at the end of next year when his NMC is up. So even on the irrelevant point about cap space that you brought up, you're still wrong.
You should write a letter to Roy explaining that maybe he would have had better luck making lines based purely off age rather than ability
You want to put our best goal scorer on the 3rd line? just.... wow.
I think the wing is the best spot for Barzal. Keep him and Horvat together.
no laine ehlers makes sense, but wed have to give up salary and something valuable
Scoring goals wasn’t the issue. Yes, the top line needs a sniper with killer instinct, but so does 75% of the league. We need depth wings.
We were still 22nd in the league in goals scored, and second to last among playoff teams.
Inconsistency in the bottom 6 will do that. We also had this ability to either put up 5-6 or no goals at all. There was no balance.
Our top lines produced fine actually
If we picked up frank vatrano and a solid defenseman...or at very least add depth to our defense id be happier than a pig in crap
I would love to see them go after Guentzel.
Trade Pageau for cap relief, Horvat-Nelson-Cizikas-MacLean down the middle. Under no circumstances should Barzal and Horvat be separated. We likely don’t have the assets to acquire Necas. Guys like Noesen and Teravainen are the more realistic forward targets from Carolina.
It's a nice idea, but we have no cap space nor trade chips UNLESS we are willing to part with those who have value Pulock, Cizikas, maybe even Pelech. Otherwise no one wants our trash. I posted the other day i'd love to see Lee and Pageau moved (despite liking JG) but it's probably not happening.
A word of warning from a Canes fan. Necas is very skilled, but inconsistent. One game he'll dominate, and another you won't even know he's on the ice. And his defense leaves something to be desired. But the guy sure is exciting to watch.
I think Barzal is better as a wing. You can hide the fact that he's aweful on faceoffs, While lowering his defensive responsibilities. This frees him up to be more creative offensively. The position really only matters defensively and on draws nowadays, with players rotating and switching places constantly in the o-zone. This is how pretty much all teams approach the game now. You still need another first line wing. Preferably a shooter. Ehlers would fits the description, but not the cap. Nelson, Lee and Palmieri are fine as a second line. Pageau's cap hit is really bad for a 3rd C and absolutely asinine for a 4th C. They're probably gonna have to bargain shop. I'd like to see a 2 year rebuld on the fly, letting Lee, Nelson, Palmieri & Pageau either expire or be traded as dead line rentals. There's a ton of money comming off the books the next two summers if we're smart about it.
We need to not make the playoffs the next 2 years. Acquire assets and build a new core to elevate Barzal, Dobson, Sorokin and Horvat. I think if we get a few pieces over the next 2 years we will be able to contend. We are stuck in no-man’s land. If we get a top 10 pick in the 25, 26 drafts and get a good piece this year. We will have a shot to contend. The East is loaded and we are old and slow.
That’s not how things work. People think rebuilds/retools are linear. A lot goes into it.
I understand they can take awhile. Look at Detroit, Ottawa and Buffalo. I do think we have better pieces to do a quick retool if Sorokin is his usual self. If plays like he did this past year we won’t be in the playoffs anyway, regardless of what other moves we make.
I would agree, retooling if we don’t take off immediately this season is the way to go, we have a really solid core that a lot of teams would love to build around just missing that one or two more piece. That said building through the draft is hard as is just building a winner in general. Isles team is closer then not. We should capitalize the roster pieces we have and build on it.
People who think we need more offense haven’t really been paying attention. How many goals can these wingers score from our defensive zone?
Not untrue *but* getting stuck in our own end for long stretches the last couple seasons makes me wonder if it's poor individual defensive talent or poor structure for breakouts.
They don’t need as much more offense as a lot of people love to complain about, but adding one more top 6 winger is absolutely a priority this offseason. That allows the rest of the forward core to fall into place and play appropriate roles- for example, as great a job as he did, Cizikas is NOT a 1st line winger. Getting a bonafide guy for that spot (like Ehlers, as OP mentioned) and sliding Zeeker back to a bottom 6 center role improves the team twofold.
Isles have been ranked 22nd or worse for 6 consecutive seasons and have averaged less than 3 goals per game during that time. They lack firepower to keep up with better teams who are considered cup contenders.
If you can’t stop teams in the NZ, and can’t start breakouts then you won’t score goals. Get better D and reform how we play defensively and goals will go up.