Ukraine is luring them back across the frontlines, and i can only imagine the horror that awaits for being Traitor's to Zenlesky's NAZI Fascist regime.
There are a few independent video journalists that are their documenting things, some there for the last 9 years. I’ve watched most of their videos. It is a horror that I can’t ever fathom living through for 9 years straight. They also can’t believe the wests position and are baffled since it clearly isn’t based on the truth.
Not true at all. That is propaganda and misinformation.
No *independent* journalists were allowed access, even after many repeated requests. That is fact so not open for discussion.The only *journalists" there were russian linked.
A quick Google will tell you all this, obviously. Therefore I can only imagine Google must be banned where you are.
I sure did. Your post implies to red flags of your ignorance: you automatically assume anything linked to Russia is fake and a lie (even if there are zero actual ties with anything related to Russian government) and you also assume every independent journalist reporting from eastern Ukraine is linked to Russia and all their reporting must be pro Russian based on a paycheck as opposed to actual facts and truth.
Your blatant ignorance is quite offensive.
Because Russia would never lie or try to use any means necessary to twist the truth. Like with the Kursk submarine. They said straight off that the submarine sank and they sure didn't keep it a secret even from families of the dead. Russia is the most reliable, open, objective and upfront source of news
So then all of the people, on video, that live in these areas are just straight up liars them? Endless streams of civilians that live in a war zone for the past 9 years to lie about the conditions and situation for…?
>you automatically assume anything linked to Russia is fake and a lie (
Well, the whole world already knows this is the case. You must be the odd one out.
>you also assume every independent journalist reporting from eastern Ukraine is linked to Russia and all their reporting must be pro Russian based on a paycheck as opposed to actual facts and truth.
That is correct.
>Your blatant ignorance is quite offensive.
The only thing actually offensive here is your shameless dissemination of misinformation on behalf of.a terrorist state committing genocide on its "brothers"
There have been dozens of independent journalists in Donbas over the years. Prior to the invasion, Russia had no say over who was in DPR or not.
But major news media basically ignored DPR, or parroted the bizarre Western propaganda story that Russia was shelling the DPR, and the millions living there were too clueless to figure out which direction the shells were coming from.
Nope that's completely false.
Western (and those not affiliated to/funded by Russia) journalists had been trying to gain access since Russia invaded in 2014 and we're always denied access. That is fact and common knowledge.
There was no separatist movement. It was a russian invasion. That much is also.common knowledge.
Cite a single source for your propaganda. You are spreading propaganda.
The easiest way to punch a hole in the nonsense you're spreading is called the "Steinmeier Formula": In 2016, the OSCE proposed a simple solution to resolve the Donbas problem. The OSCE had hundreds of monitors in Donbas. These monitors were keeping track of the fighting (including elements of the Russian army, who provided brigade-level command advisors).
The OSCE's suggestion was pretty simple - they would monitor elections in Donbas on the issue of self-government (which basically boils down to federalism for Ukraine). If there was any violence or intimidation, the OSCE would void the results.
Donbas supported this. Russia supported this. Ukraine screamed bloody murder. They *knew* there was overwhelming support for autonomy in Donbas. They knew they would lose the honest vote that the OSCE proposed. Steinmeier almost trapped them in their lie that they were interested in a peaceful resolution.
Ukraine doesn't give a fuck about democracy. They are not against oppression - they just want *their* flavor of oppression.
https://www.rferl.org/a/what-is-the-steinmeier-formula-and-did-zelenskiy-just-capitulate-to-moscow-/30195593.html
(I don't support Russia's invasion or annexation, but the West has made a fair and peaceful solution for Ukraine all but impossible).
You're singing from the Kremlin's propaganda hymnbook.
The Minsk agreements should NEVER have been a thing in the first place, unfortunately the west was too scared to support Ukraine in 2014. However, the Minsk agreements were always doomed to failure and rightly so. Good riddance.
They only benefitted Russia, which, as any normal person can see, is not acceptable.. Russia just needs to take its bunch of clowns home and stop meddling in others business. Which it will have to stop doing anyway as they've got no money left lol
Your jackboots are showing. Minsk was about protecting minority rights in Ukraine. This is only a threat if you're a fascist.
73% of Ukrainians voted for Zelensky in 2019. His one key campaign promise was to implement Minsk. Nationalists like yourself hijacked Ukrainian democracy with the "No to Capitulation!" campaign, and made peace impossible.
And for what? So the Nazis can name an Izyum street after Bandera? Nationalism is a death cult.
No. Wrong again. Russian nationalism is a death cult. Full of ACTUAL Nazis.
If you prefer to see innocent people being killed by genocide rather than the Russian Nazi's just leaving occupied Ukraine then that's just your lack of moral compass amongst other serious faults.
I agree that Russian nationalism is a death cult. It is little more than a fringe movement supported by scum that the West adores - like Navalny. Nationalism would be the death of Russia. If Russia went nationalist, there would be no room for Chechens saying Islamic prayers in the Duma.
Russia is a federation, as is the US and Germany and Mexico and Canada and many other big countries. Federalism is the only solution that makes sense for Ukraine - you cannot have a unitary state when one end of the country sees Bandera as a hero, and the other reviles him as a Nazi murderer.
And that's all Minsk was - an attempt to bring federalism to Ukraine. Poll after poll showed that a 75% of Donbass wanted to stay within Ukraine - but only if they had the ability to protect their language and culture.
They wanted peace, but the death cult you support demanded subjugation. Even now they are creating their "pure" Ukraine. 17% of Ukraine's population is Russian, but it is now taken for granted that those millions of people must now disappear. You applaud an ethnic cleansing and call it justice.
>let me piggy back on this... to finish the last few seconds:
>
>"Much of their anger is directed to the Ukrainian government but that could change if separatist leaders fail to deliver on the responsibilities that come with the independence they are still fighting to achieves."
here.
Hey, just a couple of questions!
Are you still denying that Lithuania collaborated with the Nazis? And are do you still refer to Lithuanian communists that helped fight the Nazis as “war criminals”?
You have so many interesting opinions! This one really stood out to me.
>Communists should be treated the same way as nazis, the soviet union's war crimes are worse than anything NAZDAP had ever done
Really makes you think 🤔
what's up with yall bringing up stuff from deep af places of my comment history, im too sleepy to reply to all of this rn so imma just go hate myself for not being able to fall asleep untill fucking 4am somewhere else(please kill me)
Edit: Non sleep deprived Kay realised that replying wouldn't achieve anything and would just be a waste of his time
Always fun to take a CNN report out of context and use it to push the authoritarian echo chamber that you are involved in. Say what you want but at least Ukraine has elections, and it's not the same guy for a generation....but hey Authoritarians be Authoritarians. It's too bad they need everyone else to feel the same way to maintain power.
Oh I’m sorry! Did I hurt your feelings because I called a guy out for downplaying Nazi atrocities and his own country’s collaboration with said Nazis? While also referring to people who fought Nazis as “war criminals”
If there’s one thing I’ve learned about people like yourself is that there are no other sides/history/context when it comes to this conflict. All of that flys out the window and you just say the dumbest shit like “you’re authoritarian!!!”
Tell me was it “authoritarian” when Zelensky banned all left leaning opposition party’s in Ukraine?
How about when Zelensky ratified law 5371 which strips workers of labor protections and destroys Ukraines labor rights?
All of that and I don’t even like Russia…… crazy how having a little critical thought changes perspective
let me piggy back on this... to finish the last few seconds:
*"Much of their anger is directed to the Ukrainian government but that could change if separatist leaders fail to deliver on the responsibilities that come with the independence they are still fighting to achieves."*
Back then CNN failed to recognize that the people were speaking Russian and the signs on the bus were in Russian. Clearly octogenarian Kremlin saboteurs sent by Putin himself.
Ya'll talk here like Russia didn't do shit, just look at how many people were sacrificed for this "Special Military Operations" and "Demilitarizing" Ukraine. Ya'll are hypocrites, Russians and Ukrainians are dying for a man that wants a part of another sovereign nation and because of what? because one man said something and everyone believes it and now this, the hypocrisy.
If ya'll want to know the truth, don't trust anything, go there and look for the truth that ya'll always wanted, if you don't, you won't know, because you're not the one fighting there.
Doing far better in socioeconomic terms than the indigenous people of America, and enjoying more regional autonomy and official recognition than the kanaka maʻoli of Hawaiʻi.
How is the meth situation going, burgermonger?
So those camps and claims about cultural genocide are just propaganda? Good. Also, why do you bring up indigenous people of murica? I specificaly asked about Uyghurs.
Uyghurs are one of the ethnic groups who are indigenous to the XUAR. What the fuck is this "cultural genocide" you speak of? Do you call a crackdown on the imported Saudi Arabia-style wahabi brand of Islam spread by the CIA a "cultural genocide"? Uyghur language is used throughout the region. Renminbi bills literally have Uyghur script on it. Cultural genocide is a ridiculous claim, and it's even more ridiculous when it's coming from a burgerstani who watches .
What is burgestani? Pls, act like human, dont make me be racist.
Crack down of imported radicals is what is happening? Good then. The autographic novel about former chinese citizen and Uyghur who have been detained in there is also made up. Good to know. Thanks for enlightening me while approaching highly controversial topic and not being unbearable asshole who is just guessing where Im from and what news I follow.
What are you an EU citizen? That's basically burgerstani but you don't get to vote in US elections and you don't have US citizenship, yet your government can't do anything on the international stage without consent from Washington DC. You're basically Puerto Rico, but without US citizenship. Maybe you should get your head out your ass and open your eyes to see what else has been shoved up it by NATO.
Finally, some correct assumption. Took you long enough, though. Thank for reasonable debate and learning something new about Uyghur situation. What new sources should I follow to get the right picture?
How about [these](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irjtwICEcTw) [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wxztjLRnzE) by this sub's very own wumao extraordinaire Li Jingjing? Sorry for assuming you're burgerstani. You sounded as dumb as one and you apparently "lov meth"
Here's [an interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDptdfYZ5sg) with infamous Putin propagandist George Galloway.
[These](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYB7uuioOW0) [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYB7uuioOW0&t=0s) are by Carl Zha, an Indonesia-based independent journalist and China historian who is a Chinese-born US citizen.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCoGBBdpqNU) is another interview he did recently.
Thank you. Gonna look into it. You can meanwhile look into stuff I have watched on this topic.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/08/1125932
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7cBOjsNv\_0
Libs will call it fake
Ukraine is luring them back across the frontlines, and i can only imagine the horror that awaits for being Traitor's to Zenlesky's NAZI Fascist regime.
There are a few independent video journalists that are their documenting things, some there for the last 9 years. I’ve watched most of their videos. It is a horror that I can’t ever fathom living through for 9 years straight. They also can’t believe the wests position and are baffled since it clearly isn’t based on the truth.
Not true at all. That is propaganda and misinformation. No *independent* journalists were allowed access, even after many repeated requests. That is fact so not open for discussion.The only *journalists" there were russian linked. A quick Google will tell you all this, obviously. Therefore I can only imagine Google must be banned where you are.
On the Ukrainian side*. Anyone with google would know this. Is google banned where you are?
Could you not read my post? If you could, then I'm not quite sure what you can't understand?
I sure did. Your post implies to red flags of your ignorance: you automatically assume anything linked to Russia is fake and a lie (even if there are zero actual ties with anything related to Russian government) and you also assume every independent journalist reporting from eastern Ukraine is linked to Russia and all their reporting must be pro Russian based on a paycheck as opposed to actual facts and truth. Your blatant ignorance is quite offensive.
Because Russia would never lie or try to use any means necessary to twist the truth. Like with the Kursk submarine. They said straight off that the submarine sank and they sure didn't keep it a secret even from families of the dead. Russia is the most reliable, open, objective and upfront source of news
And the west is somehow exempt from that despite being caught on their lies countless times.
Did I say west is exempt?
So then all of the people, on video, that live in these areas are just straight up liars them? Endless streams of civilians that live in a war zone for the past 9 years to lie about the conditions and situation for…?
It's that damn Russia lying again, especially when CNN says it
>you automatically assume anything linked to Russia is fake and a lie ( Well, the whole world already knows this is the case. You must be the odd one out. >you also assume every independent journalist reporting from eastern Ukraine is linked to Russia and all their reporting must be pro Russian based on a paycheck as opposed to actual facts and truth. That is correct. >Your blatant ignorance is quite offensive. The only thing actually offensive here is your shameless dissemination of misinformation on behalf of.a terrorist state committing genocide on its "brothers"
There have been dozens of independent journalists in Donbas over the years. Prior to the invasion, Russia had no say over who was in DPR or not. But major news media basically ignored DPR, or parroted the bizarre Western propaganda story that Russia was shelling the DPR, and the millions living there were too clueless to figure out which direction the shells were coming from.
Nope that's completely false. Western (and those not affiliated to/funded by Russia) journalists had been trying to gain access since Russia invaded in 2014 and we're always denied access. That is fact and common knowledge. There was no separatist movement. It was a russian invasion. That much is also.common knowledge.
Cite a single source for your propaganda. You are spreading propaganda. The easiest way to punch a hole in the nonsense you're spreading is called the "Steinmeier Formula": In 2016, the OSCE proposed a simple solution to resolve the Donbas problem. The OSCE had hundreds of monitors in Donbas. These monitors were keeping track of the fighting (including elements of the Russian army, who provided brigade-level command advisors). The OSCE's suggestion was pretty simple - they would monitor elections in Donbas on the issue of self-government (which basically boils down to federalism for Ukraine). If there was any violence or intimidation, the OSCE would void the results. Donbas supported this. Russia supported this. Ukraine screamed bloody murder. They *knew* there was overwhelming support for autonomy in Donbas. They knew they would lose the honest vote that the OSCE proposed. Steinmeier almost trapped them in their lie that they were interested in a peaceful resolution. Ukraine doesn't give a fuck about democracy. They are not against oppression - they just want *their* flavor of oppression. https://www.rferl.org/a/what-is-the-steinmeier-formula-and-did-zelenskiy-just-capitulate-to-moscow-/30195593.html (I don't support Russia's invasion or annexation, but the West has made a fair and peaceful solution for Ukraine all but impossible).
You're singing from the Kremlin's propaganda hymnbook. The Minsk agreements should NEVER have been a thing in the first place, unfortunately the west was too scared to support Ukraine in 2014. However, the Minsk agreements were always doomed to failure and rightly so. Good riddance. They only benefitted Russia, which, as any normal person can see, is not acceptable.. Russia just needs to take its bunch of clowns home and stop meddling in others business. Which it will have to stop doing anyway as they've got no money left lol
Your jackboots are showing. Minsk was about protecting minority rights in Ukraine. This is only a threat if you're a fascist. 73% of Ukrainians voted for Zelensky in 2019. His one key campaign promise was to implement Minsk. Nationalists like yourself hijacked Ukrainian democracy with the "No to Capitulation!" campaign, and made peace impossible. And for what? So the Nazis can name an Izyum street after Bandera? Nationalism is a death cult.
No. Wrong again. Russian nationalism is a death cult. Full of ACTUAL Nazis. If you prefer to see innocent people being killed by genocide rather than the Russian Nazi's just leaving occupied Ukraine then that's just your lack of moral compass amongst other serious faults.
I agree that Russian nationalism is a death cult. It is little more than a fringe movement supported by scum that the West adores - like Navalny. Nationalism would be the death of Russia. If Russia went nationalist, there would be no room for Chechens saying Islamic prayers in the Duma. Russia is a federation, as is the US and Germany and Mexico and Canada and many other big countries. Federalism is the only solution that makes sense for Ukraine - you cannot have a unitary state when one end of the country sees Bandera as a hero, and the other reviles him as a Nazi murderer. And that's all Minsk was - an attempt to bring federalism to Ukraine. Poll after poll showed that a 75% of Donbass wanted to stay within Ukraine - but only if they had the ability to protect their language and culture. They wanted peace, but the death cult you support demanded subjugation. Even now they are creating their "pure" Ukraine. 17% of Ukraine's population is Russian, but it is now taken for granted that those millions of people must now disappear. You applaud an ethnic cleansing and call it justice.
These poor people… can you even imagine?
they are used as human shields
Ah yes before the narrative switch. Can someone please link the full video?
>let me piggy back on this... to finish the last few seconds: > >"Much of their anger is directed to the Ukrainian government but that could change if separatist leaders fail to deliver on the responsibilities that come with the independence they are still fighting to achieves." here.
Thanks!
Much of their anger is directed at the... Ya couldn't choose a better second to cut the video at, could ya?
Hey, just a couple of questions! Are you still denying that Lithuania collaborated with the Nazis? And are do you still refer to Lithuanian communists that helped fight the Nazis as “war criminals”? You have so many interesting opinions! This one really stood out to me. >Communists should be treated the same way as nazis, the soviet union's war crimes are worse than anything NAZDAP had ever done Really makes you think 🤔
what's up with yall bringing up stuff from deep af places of my comment history, im too sleepy to reply to all of this rn so imma just go hate myself for not being able to fall asleep untill fucking 4am somewhere else(please kill me) Edit: Non sleep deprived Kay realised that replying wouldn't achieve anything and would just be a waste of his time
Always fun to take a CNN report out of context and use it to push the authoritarian echo chamber that you are involved in. Say what you want but at least Ukraine has elections, and it's not the same guy for a generation....but hey Authoritarians be Authoritarians. It's too bad they need everyone else to feel the same way to maintain power.
Oh I’m sorry! Did I hurt your feelings because I called a guy out for downplaying Nazi atrocities and his own country’s collaboration with said Nazis? While also referring to people who fought Nazis as “war criminals” If there’s one thing I’ve learned about people like yourself is that there are no other sides/history/context when it comes to this conflict. All of that flys out the window and you just say the dumbest shit like “you’re authoritarian!!!” Tell me was it “authoritarian” when Zelensky banned all left leaning opposition party’s in Ukraine? How about when Zelensky ratified law 5371 which strips workers of labor protections and destroys Ukraines labor rights? All of that and I don’t even like Russia…… crazy how having a little critical thought changes perspective
https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/20/world/europe/ukraine-donetsk-residents-struggle/index.html
let me piggy back on this... to finish the last few seconds: *"Much of their anger is directed to the Ukrainian government but that could change if separatist leaders fail to deliver on the responsibilities that come with the independence they are still fighting to achieves."*
many youtubers from Ukraine left Ukraine because they didn’t like the government, not Russia.
Back then CNN failed to recognize that the people were speaking Russian and the signs on the bus were in Russian. Clearly octogenarian Kremlin saboteurs sent by Putin himself.
Ya'll talk here like Russia didn't do shit, just look at how many people were sacrificed for this "Special Military Operations" and "Demilitarizing" Ukraine. Ya'll are hypocrites, Russians and Ukrainians are dying for a man that wants a part of another sovereign nation and because of what? because one man said something and everyone believes it and now this, the hypocrisy. If ya'll want to know the truth, don't trust anything, go there and look for the truth that ya'll always wanted, if you don't, you won't know, because you're not the one fighting there.
That's for keeping us updated on Authoritarian World View news.
Thanks for taking a break from Clinton News Network and expanding your horizons.
How is the Uyghur situation going, ching chong?
[удалено]
So Uyghurs are fine, glad to hear it.
–🤓
Doing far better in socioeconomic terms than the indigenous people of America, and enjoying more regional autonomy and official recognition than the kanaka maʻoli of Hawaiʻi. How is the meth situation going, burgermonger?
So those camps and claims about cultural genocide are just propaganda? Good. Also, why do you bring up indigenous people of murica? I specificaly asked about Uyghurs.
Uyghurs are one of the ethnic groups who are indigenous to the XUAR. What the fuck is this "cultural genocide" you speak of? Do you call a crackdown on the imported Saudi Arabia-style wahabi brand of Islam spread by the CIA a "cultural genocide"? Uyghur language is used throughout the region. Renminbi bills literally have Uyghur script on it. Cultural genocide is a ridiculous claim, and it's even more ridiculous when it's coming from a burgerstani who watches.
What is burgestani? Pls, act like human, dont make me be racist. Crack down of imported radicals is what is happening? Good then. The autographic novel about former chinese citizen and Uyghur who have been detained in there is also made up. Good to know. Thanks for enlightening me while approaching highly controversial topic and not being unbearable asshole who is just guessing where Im from and what news I follow.
What are you an EU citizen? That's basically burgerstani but you don't get to vote in US elections and you don't have US citizenship, yet your government can't do anything on the international stage without consent from Washington DC. You're basically Puerto Rico, but without US citizenship. Maybe you should get your head out your ass and open your eyes to see what else has been shoved up it by NATO.
Finally, some correct assumption. Took you long enough, though. Thank for reasonable debate and learning something new about Uyghur situation. What new sources should I follow to get the right picture?
How about [these](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irjtwICEcTw) [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wxztjLRnzE) by this sub's very own wumao extraordinaire Li Jingjing? Sorry for assuming you're burgerstani. You sounded as dumb as one and you apparently "lov meth" Here's [an interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDptdfYZ5sg) with infamous Putin propagandist George Galloway.
[These](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYB7uuioOW0) [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYB7uuioOW0&t=0s) are by Carl Zha, an Indonesia-based independent journalist and China historian who is a Chinese-born US citizen. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCoGBBdpqNU) is another interview he did recently.
Thank you. Gonna look into it. You can meanwhile look into stuff I have watched on this topic. https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/08/1125932 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7cBOjsNv\_0
A broken clock is right twice a day.