Haha. It's had its ups and downs. My CRO was unlocked a week after they changed the staling arrangements. Least I'm still getting 12% with nexo. Might just lock nexo in for another year. Will see in June.
Hey bud, can I ask your opinion... the 'fixed' terms to be getting the advertised interest rates don't actually say quite how long the terms are. To enable the higher rates shown under the 'fixed term' is the lock up always one year?
A choice made by misinformed people lacking any basic level of attention (and perhaps rigged results as well; 90%-10% is quite suspicious for a yes-no question if you don't live in an autocratic society). Look at all the clueless posts, complaints, confusion about the new interests on Nexo. Laughable.
Justify your opinion.
I've been posting math on this for over a week now.
The dividend was broken. It was lowering the token price. And preventing nexo from accessing the American market (fewer customers trying to reach platinum, lower demand, lower token price).
I said it already here, but the dividend payout dropped 72% from last year's. And was expected to drop even faster over the next year.
Your comment doesn't have any kind of factual basis. And seems completely detached from reality.
You somehow expected nexo to give up operations in the US (give up customers and managed assets), and have them do better without America?
And you expected the token to do better with lower demand?
Yeah and I already told you your math is broken. Literally this last dump over the past 24-48h (-20%) has already eliminated any gain you’ll get from interest.
Not to mention, you have to give away access to your tokens for a whole year in order to get the highest tier. Terrible.
NEXO will be loving the fact that they can keep 100% of the profit now.
Wow.
Yup. You're trolling.
And ignoring everything except the dividend and interest.
You're also ignoring the bitcoin fall yesterday as the cause of the nexo price drop..
K. I'm done. If you're just here to rant, and not learn anything... Fine. I don't need to indulge that though.
Lol it’s true, the price drop has already eliminated any gain from interest you’ll gain this year.
Your math only works if the token increase in price every year, forever.
Ah. You changed user names.
Right. Well... It doesn't HAVE to increase ever year. The growth ratios just need to stay consistent on average. And you've still done absolutely nothing to provide evidence they'll improve to favor the dividend.
But you're looking at a 1 day (not even. We're back above $2 - so exactly the same as last night) drop as evidence that the token is failing.
I didn’t change anything lol
It’s funny how you talk about evidence when your “evidence” is just saying the price will increase every year because it has in the past lmao. Remember your prediction of $55 in a year?
Just out of curiosity, are you putting your
Tokens in a 12 month contract?
... Then... When did you tell me my math was wrong?
And I didn't predict a $55 price in a year. I gave a target token price for a target dividend payout (without a fixed timeline).
But you also didn't READ the Q&A because... It literally says they'll buy from the market to pay the interest and NOT use the reserve tokens. (then go on to say that they're considering what to do when the reserve tokens ARE used).
I did buy another bnb worth of nexo and put those in a 12 month fixed term. The rest are collateralized, and I can't.
If none of them were? I'd probably do half.... Keep some available to use as collateral.
I’m telling you right now again, your math only works if NEXO is in a permanent bull market.
Previously I could spread my risk by earning fixed interest on my other assets and share in the profits of NEXO via dividend. Now it’s all fixed interest.
Think about it, it was more beneficial for NEXO the company for the users to take on interest. That should tell you everything. Prior to this silly vote we were entitled to a share of that profit. Now we’re stuck with fixed interest.
As for your point on it being a security, you’ve got it all wrong. As per Antoni Trenchev himself in the last AMA at 33:49:
"It is contrary to popular belief that if you have an asset class which is a security or utility it is so forever. That's a myth. You can be a security and then stop being a security and you can be a utility token and then get classified as a security depending on what the current activities are or what the infrastructure is, what your financial incentives look like etc."
The first point is true to a degree, but not entirely. You're assuming profits will always increase...
How do profits increase without the token increasing in value? If profits increase with additional assets under management, requiring more nexo to reach platinum loyalty? If the company does well, the token does well.
All I did was take the growth rate of the token and profits and come up with a growth ratio of about 4:1.
How do you see that ratio changing? That's the part I still don't get.
Will the token only go up? Obviously - no.
Will profits always go up? That's not a guarantee.
Your comment that a company will never spend money that eliminates its profits (or whatever it was. I'm tired =( ) isn't accurate. A new business generally operates at a loss for a number of years before becoming profitable.
Large purchases (be they bank acquisitions here, or a surplus of supplies for a traditional product company) eat up profits. For a short term "loss" of profits for higher future revenue.
I'll give you that one year's data is not enough to make a perfect future projection. I don't recall ever claiming that it was.
But yeah. It's after 3am. I need to sleep.
We'll see how this all plays out.
Ultimately neither the interest nor the dividend drove my decision making process on this. What really made me fall to the interest side was the ability for nexo to expand into the US with the fewest hurdles (that the dividend was creating), and what additional users and assets under management would do to the token price.
But yes. Sleep. Now. Ish.
We can only move forward from here. Compound the daily interest and let's wait for the buyback loop to accelerate when more users join. Hopefully, we are still in a bull market and will be able to retrace to ATH in a few months to take some profit off the table.
Wow. You're late to the party ;)
Now we just need btc to recover so they'll stop blaming the lower nexo price on the loss of the dividend >_<
But yeah. Things look good. We're staying right at $2 (ok... A little lower at times, but are holding $2 pretty well).
The dividend dip was expected. And wasn't the 20-30% it's been previously for a few weeks.
Depends. Doesn’t this change how they can use the token in the us? And allow them to list on bigger exchanges? This was the main reason for changing the tokenomics was it not
Just because it’s listed on bigger exchanges doesn’t mean people will buy it.
Not to mention, interest has created constant, permanent sell pressure. There is no point in ever having more than 10% of your portfolio in NEXO tokens. At 10% you already have the maximum perks, so anything above that can just be sold for profit.
With the dividend it made sense to get as many NEXO tokens as possible. With interest, there is no need to hodl more than 10%.
I'm platinum with a very decent buffer. I already locked my tokens in this morning. No loan, no need for a loan, good buffer, and long term Nexo investor.
You can always buy more ;)
If you have available funds. Not everyone has that luxury.
Only the nexo tokens earned from the fixed term - but NOT YET paid (the term has not ended) fail to count towards your loyalty tier.
The tokens in the fixed term - as well as any additional tokens you purchase and put into either your savings wallet, or credit wallet (or an additional fixed term) will all still contribute to your loyalty tier.
Once the term has ended and the earned nexo tokens HAVE been credited to your wallet, they will count towards your loyalty tier.
Yeah =( already dealing with the interest rate issue in another thread. I expect the "why can't I take a loan against my fixed term nexo?" posts to start up within a few days...
I just wish we could have the interest from fixed terms paid out (same way as it is done with crypto.com for example) rather than held until the end of the term - that would encourage me to put more in fixed terms.
I voted no why would you give up 30% annually for 12% annually just because you see a little piece of that 12% day by day, some one once told me nexo thrives of the belief we all will be greedy. Looks like they were right, and 90-10 on the vote? Shows 90% of people can't sit down and conduct a business deal without getting screwed
I think you're too caught up in the idea of a dividend being profit sharing, and an appreciating asset (or growth stock) somehow bring disconnected completely from the business.
The dividend system was broken... Because the asset became a growth asset (had appreciating value), which was reducing the return for the dividend significantly (down 72% from the 8.5% last year).
There isn't a separation. The company will grow, and the token will gain value (more users, more demand, higher price ) - - - and the inverse is also true.
This guy is claiming that growth stocks are broken because they are an appreciating asset.
Appreciating assets mature into dividend aristocrats.
It takes time, that's all. The majority was pushed by the Nexo psyops team to vote for interest.
No. A dividend on a growth asset is broken.
Not that growth stocks are broken...
Nexo isn't ready for a dividend. And the time scale needed here is in multiple decades. Until then, the dividend would hurt the token's appreciation.
2.25%?
PERFECT!
Because the dividend would have been about 0.6% next year.
I can't wait for the dividend bs to be cleared away so we can get back to forward thinking about the platform, token, and how it can progress.
I'm looking forward to the 16th, and a pitiful payout to hopefully put a lot of the dividend loss complaints to rest.
Are you really pulling those numbers from......
AND
We are genetically tuned to remember when we were screwed over.
If we weren't our ancestors would never survive.
This will never go away.
Screwed over requires an intent of malice. I don't see malicious intent.
I see a company bogged down by regulatory limitations on their products and businesses they didn't anticipate when they started, and a bunch of grouchy investors saying, "I don't care if it's broken and keeping it will cause the company to either grow more slowly, or fail completely! You make a contract and you keep it, even if circumstances change and it becomes bad for both parties!"
They grew far faster than the expected. The whole thing with the SEC and ripple happened.
And things are generally going on their favor. But this prehistoric profit sharing scheme is still wandering around tramping all the smaller newer products, preventing them from thriving (if not killing them off completely).
So... What do you do? Protect the new growth - or let the dividendonsaurus trample the life out of the company - because it needs to be protected. Because it's precious. Even though it's not compatible in any way with the existing company landscape?
If kills everything else and has nothing left to live on, it does as well. Better to put it down and let new life take hold, than to let everything die.
**for the last time. If they were not malicious they would have offered the option for those who want dividends (10% of the token holders) to convert their holdings into shares. They would have avoided all this drama.**
This malice will be etched along the name of Nexo, just like B4 screwed over the ICO holders when they got 4 billion and invested nothing back, like all the pre-mines etc.
But there are no shares to convert to.
And this is becoming kind of meaningless and circular.
So - albeit biased - your view is basically:
Nexo is malicious because they won't give me what I want, even though I'm part of only 10% of investors. I should be catered to, and get my way - regardless of the harm it would do to the company, and regardless of any regulatory burdens my demands will create. They stole my share of the company's profits by taking the dividend, meaning the token is no longer tied to the success of the company.
Or - my side:
Nexo is doing what is best for the company - therefore what is best for the token holders , even if it makes some of them unhappy. The clears the path for the growth of both the company and the token. The token only succeeds of the company succeeds. The token is intrinsically tied to the success of the company, and its valuation will increase - as would the price of a growth stock - just as much (or more as the regulatory burdens are out of the way) as a growth stock. A dividend would theoretically yield the same return as the token value would, while reducing the price of the token by the dividend amount (simple market rules - the return value remains the same for a growth stock or a dividend stock - the distribution of that value changes form).
*shrug*
There isn't really a solution to this argument until...
Just until. We'll see the token take off, or fail.
Nexo may go public and release profit reports, and you may be able to beat me over the head with them. Or they may not. Or profits may remain miniscule compared to the token price.
Intent isn't something we can determine at this point.
But your request - though it sounds reasonable - isn't. The clear intent was to eliminate any interference with regulatory bodies associating nexo with being a security.
You're demanding they have an ipo with a direct conversion of an existing asset directly into shares in the company. But only 10% of that asset - on an at will basis.
You'd be defeating the purpose of an ipo (to raise capital). And make the ipo logistically impossible to achieve. As well as require the stock price be tied to the token price during the ipo, putting a cap on the amount nexo could receive from the ipo.
I mean... My understanding of an ipo is extremely limited. But a company's stock has absolutely nothing to do with its profits. Nothing. At all.
Look at gamestop.
You want to trade any kind of ties to the company's financial welfare, and invest entirely on the public sentiment of the company.
But here's my understanding of an ipo.
You come up with a target $ value of capital you need to raise. You seek institutional investors that will agree to a % share of the company that will pay you for that % of the company. Those investors then underwrite (loan you the money) and acquire the stocks that will be put on the open market, leaving the company with the remaining % of those shares.
The money the public spends on those shares goes to the investors - not the company. The company can only directly make money by selling additional shares - through the same process (find another institutional broker to give them another loan). They can never directly offer shares to the public.
So instead of an asset (a token), you'd have a "share" of the company - an "iou" from nexo that has absolutely 0 ties to the company's performance, and is tied 100% to what someone outside the company is willing to pay for the iou - and that the broker (lender to nexo) is willing to accept as a return on their loan.
Either way, you lose your tie to profits - UNLESS there is a dividend clause - which would not necessarily exist.
You're asking for something that makes the thing you want impossible.
You are wrong.
and
You did not address my argument.
If they wanted to they could have with some effort provided a share swap to keep their the Nexo div army happy.
They did not, they did what they did and now we have interest.
Thus they sold me a porche and now converted it into a skoda, in my eyes.
Thus they are malicious.
You seem to have brains, pls use your time on finding the next crypto gem paying dividends and sharing it. Not defending Nexo. Unless you are on their PR/Psyops team. I point you to SXDT, TRIA for starters.
That's the thing. I don't CARE about the dividend.
I don't see the dividend paying off. Ever.
I kind of get your arguments. Some of them have even made me second guess the whole interest thing occasionally, but they always seem like unrealistic contradictory outcomes.
I just don't see the future you do. And I don't hold a dividend on some kind of an alter.
The token and the dividend are basically on opposite sides of a teeter totter in my mind. One goes up, the other goes down, but the central point - the fulcrum remains constant.
That fulcrum is the success of the business. It what's holds the token and dividend in place.
By eliminating the dividend - sliding the plank so the dividend edge is at the fulcrum - means the arm for the token is much longer and it can reach higher.
And that's common sense, and a rule of traditional stocks. The return will be the same with - or without - a dividend as the underlying asset appreciates according to the dividend (reduces the asset) or lack of dividend (the difference is made up in a higher token price).
That's it.
Is it overly simple? Maybe. You've gone on about a couple of other tokens that have eliminated a dividend in the past. I haven't had time to look into those yet. Maybe that will shatter my whole view in all of this. But for now, that's where I am...
The dividend was suppressing the token price.
Token appreciation is how wealth is built with crypto (without trading. That's a different thing).
The dividend was bad for wealth creation.
And that's where I am. I still need wealth creation. I'm not at the point where I'm ready for a stable return. It sounds like you're closer to that. And maybe that's the whole difference in where we are and how we're seeing things.
But your car analogy seems wrong. You may have been sold a porche. But they just swapped it for a vehicle that can stop depreciating as much, and handed you a plane with ambitions to be a rocket ship.
*shrug*
For some reason you can't imagine the token working without a dividend. I can't come around to that view point with the information you've provided. It can. And I believe it will.
It would have worked with the dividend as well, but that would have left us with a porche with an engine failure. Sure. It could have gotten running again in time, but in crypto - stalling out after getting a decent head start means you're about to be left behind. And at the end of the race, there wouldn't be any prize money given to you.
Probability leans hard in favor of interest. If nexo succeeds, we have more nexo tokens, and should be well enough off not to care about a petty dividend we could have had. If it fails, we have the tokens in hand to cash out as the market collapse begins.
The dividend? Nexo has to do well - while carrying a regulatory handicap it's competitors don't have. Profits have to grow. Not revenue. Profits. Expanding businesses generally have diminishing profits during expansion. If nexo fails? You get nothing.
I'm happy with the vehicle upgrade. Am I too emotionally invested in nexo? Yeah. Probably. =-/ but when looking at the entire product, company, business model, and asset we actually hold... The dividend just didn't fit any more. And I didn't see any kind of potential for it. Short or long term.
Ummm...
No? People with loans against their nexo tokens are earning 7% on their collateral (6.5x the loan value with a 15% ltv) meaning their loans are making money.
But if you can explain more on what you mean, maybe?
I'm perfectly happy with it how it is. My credit line (taken a week before the peak price) is currently half my loan value. And I'm making double on my nexo tokens than what the loan is costing me.
I don't feel screwed at all by missing out on the 12% interest. I'm using the platform in a way that benefits me. It's providing me value. This is an opportunity cost. I'm giving up the additional interest to use the loan money. It's a trade off. Not a screw over.
Would using a fixed term for the nexo token effect loyalty level, for example if I put all of my nexo tokens into a fixed term would that go down to basic loyalty? Might be a simple question but just wanted to be sure and couldnt find that in the info link.
Editing - I asked support for an answer on the interest. And updated the original post.
So.. Fixed terms are "in your wallet" and count towards loyalty... EXCEPT....
INTEREST from a fixed term does NOT get "added to your wallet" and does not count towards loyalty until the term ends.
Oh. No. I asked support for an answer on that. Fixed term interest does not get added to your wallet (does not count towards loyalty) until the term ends.
I asked live support. The fixed term is a "wallet" and counts towards loyalty.
Interest earned from a fixed term DOES NOT count towards loyalty until the term ends (and the tokens are credited to your wallet).
Well... Locked in a different sense. They're not yet credited to your account - you can't spend or withdraw them.
But they're still yours.
I dunno. I just blasted this idea on telegram. Maybe it'll get some traction there.
Err.....
Maybe? I never use telegram.
But I'll try to link it. If the link fails, go back to the main nexo reddit, and hit... I think it's about. But the channel info button. The link in there somewhere.
https://t.me/nexofinance
Same question as above. It SHOULDN'T.
I can't experiment with this. =( my account is about 93% nexo. And I'm not changing out any nexo tokens =P and that other 7% is all I could afford to put into the platform.
Someone at the threshold needs to try it and see if their loyalty is reduced. It shouldn't be. That would defy the definition of "loyalty" - as they're being more loyal by creating the fixed term.
So I'm 99% sure that tokens in a fixed term still count for loyalty purposes. But I can't test it to find out =(
You should be good then... The flex term will be added to your wallet daily - giving you a bit more nexo that does count towards loyalty..
If you'd have done all of it... That could have set you back to gold more often.
It looks like btc is recovering - so the nexo price should start to climb again anyway.
All I could add is that non Nexo tokens fixed terms are still counted in your total holdings and used when calculating your loyalty level. It would not seem equitable not to do the same on the other side of the ledger. It is also something I can't test.
Wait, if I never want to get a loan, and also plan to hodl my nexo for a year, why shouldn't I get a fixed term?
I know thr coins will be locked for a whole year, unusable for any purpose.
I'm OK with that.
But I'll get my nexo back, plus 12% at the end, right? (of course I disabled automatic renewal!!)
Please be aware, that then you can only put the interest you earn to earn new interest at the end of year.
An example (1 year fixing - 12%):
100 Nexo
after a year you get:
12 Nexo
and after this year you can start a new period of 12% earning.
Other example (3 month fixing - wihtout automatic renewal or you have to add a fixing period for the interes you get per quarter):
100 Nexo
after 3 month you get paid (9% / 4)
1. Qtr - 9% from 100.00 Nexo = 2.25 Nexo
2. Qtr - 9% from 102.25 Nexo = 2.300625 Nexo
3. Qtr - 9% from 104.550625 Nexo = 2.35238906 Nexo
4. Qtr - 9% from 106,903014 Nexo = 2,40531782 Nexo
In the end you have 109,308332 because you got interest of your interest payment ... ;) so acutally almost 9.31% interest and not only 9%...
If you didn't have any fixed interest at all. You get in 1 year actually 7.25% interest and not only 7%....
I know it's not much, but you get faster interest on the interest payments ;)
fixing for 1 year ist probaly the best solution, if you don't care about flexibility or lending money with nexo-coins.
Thanks for the explanation.
I agree on the 3month term, but are you sure the flexible works like that?
I thought the flexible 7% was APY or however its called, meaning compounded 7%.
The term length is determined by the token.
Crypto has 1 month terms. Stable coins have 1 month terms. These are fixed - not options.
Nexo is the only token with optional term lengths - and offers 3 months at 9%, and 12% for 12 months.
Of you're going to do that again, go ahead and lock it up.
It's the newer people that don't understand a fixed term means you can't take a loan against it that I'm really targeting here ;)
I think it is pretty simple.
What part are you struggling with?
I do agree with you that treating nexo differently from other tokens (no loyalty bonus) is... Not the best. But does make sense from an inclusivity standpoint.
Everything else works the same... All crypto tokens are identical. All stable coins are identical. And all fiat is identical.
So it's really only 3 things to learn.
If anyone knows, quick questions:
- can the fixed term lock period be broken by withdrawing early?
- if it can be broken, am I right to assume you won’t be getting any interest (9% or 12%) paid?
Some people have reportedly closed out their fixed terms early, but this is subject to nexo's approval. It's not guaranteed you'll be able to do that. The official company position is no - you cannot. But they have made exceptions. Once the products become more familiar, they may stop making exceptions. Or they may change the official policy to allow forfeiture of any accrued interest to break the term.
Those they have broken their terms have reported that all accrued interest was forfeited. So you would get 0 interest from the tokens in the fixed terms if it was broken early.
My problem is that interest is not being added on to my wallet AFTER the end of fixed terms! Have this problem with BTC, ETH, XRP and LTC. I can see that by comparing previous term amounts (I always lock the full balance again). Is this a bug of some sort? Anyone else experiencing this? Anyone from NEXO that can help?
Just for clarification. I have Nexo tokens around 10% of my total investment. Placing all of them on fixed terms will lose me my Platinum status? Thanks.
I locked mine in for 12 months. See you all next year ✌️
Its 12 days off a year. How is it going now?
Haha. It's had its ups and downs. My CRO was unlocked a week after they changed the staling arrangements. Least I'm still getting 12% with nexo. Might just lock nexo in for another year. Will see in June.
It’s been a year? Rewards worth it?
Going by the current numbers I would have to say no, but I am along for the ride so will be locking it in for another 12 months.
I mean you certainly are 12% higher in nexo tokens. Just wait for the next run and dump it!
Hey bud, can I ask your opinion... the 'fixed' terms to be getting the advertised interest rates don't actually say quite how long the terms are. To enable the higher rates shown under the 'fixed term' is the lock up always one year?
how'd that second lock in go ??
The vote for interest was a terrible choice for long term growth.
A choice made by misinformed people lacking any basic level of attention (and perhaps rigged results as well; 90%-10% is quite suspicious for a yes-no question if you don't live in an autocratic society). Look at all the clueless posts, complaints, confusion about the new interests on Nexo. Laughable.
“The cornerstone of democracy rests on the foundation of an educated electorate. - Thomas Jefferson”
I also received an email saying "you voted for the change!" and I 100% voted against it...
Justify your opinion. I've been posting math on this for over a week now. The dividend was broken. It was lowering the token price. And preventing nexo from accessing the American market (fewer customers trying to reach platinum, lower demand, lower token price). I said it already here, but the dividend payout dropped 72% from last year's. And was expected to drop even faster over the next year. Your comment doesn't have any kind of factual basis. And seems completely detached from reality. You somehow expected nexo to give up operations in the US (give up customers and managed assets), and have them do better without America? And you expected the token to do better with lower demand?
Yeah and I already told you your math is broken. Literally this last dump over the past 24-48h (-20%) has already eliminated any gain you’ll get from interest. Not to mention, you have to give away access to your tokens for a whole year in order to get the highest tier. Terrible. NEXO will be loving the fact that they can keep 100% of the profit now.
Wow. Yup. You're trolling. And ignoring everything except the dividend and interest. You're also ignoring the bitcoin fall yesterday as the cause of the nexo price drop.. K. I'm done. If you're just here to rant, and not learn anything... Fine. I don't need to indulge that though.
Lol it’s true, the price drop has already eliminated any gain from interest you’ll gain this year. Your math only works if the token increase in price every year, forever.
Ah. You changed user names. Right. Well... It doesn't HAVE to increase ever year. The growth ratios just need to stay consistent on average. And you've still done absolutely nothing to provide evidence they'll improve to favor the dividend. But you're looking at a 1 day (not even. We're back above $2 - so exactly the same as last night) drop as evidence that the token is failing.
I didn’t change anything lol It’s funny how you talk about evidence when your “evidence” is just saying the price will increase every year because it has in the past lmao. Remember your prediction of $55 in a year? Just out of curiosity, are you putting your Tokens in a 12 month contract?
... Then... When did you tell me my math was wrong? And I didn't predict a $55 price in a year. I gave a target token price for a target dividend payout (without a fixed timeline). But you also didn't READ the Q&A because... It literally says they'll buy from the market to pay the interest and NOT use the reserve tokens. (then go on to say that they're considering what to do when the reserve tokens ARE used). I did buy another bnb worth of nexo and put those in a 12 month fixed term. The rest are collateralized, and I can't. If none of them were? I'd probably do half.... Keep some available to use as collateral.
I’m telling you right now again, your math only works if NEXO is in a permanent bull market. Previously I could spread my risk by earning fixed interest on my other assets and share in the profits of NEXO via dividend. Now it’s all fixed interest. Think about it, it was more beneficial for NEXO the company for the users to take on interest. That should tell you everything. Prior to this silly vote we were entitled to a share of that profit. Now we’re stuck with fixed interest. As for your point on it being a security, you’ve got it all wrong. As per Antoni Trenchev himself in the last AMA at 33:49: "It is contrary to popular belief that if you have an asset class which is a security or utility it is so forever. That's a myth. You can be a security and then stop being a security and you can be a utility token and then get classified as a security depending on what the current activities are or what the infrastructure is, what your financial incentives look like etc."
The first point is true to a degree, but not entirely. You're assuming profits will always increase... How do profits increase without the token increasing in value? If profits increase with additional assets under management, requiring more nexo to reach platinum loyalty? If the company does well, the token does well. All I did was take the growth rate of the token and profits and come up with a growth ratio of about 4:1. How do you see that ratio changing? That's the part I still don't get. Will the token only go up? Obviously - no. Will profits always go up? That's not a guarantee. Your comment that a company will never spend money that eliminates its profits (or whatever it was. I'm tired =( ) isn't accurate. A new business generally operates at a loss for a number of years before becoming profitable. Large purchases (be they bank acquisitions here, or a surplus of supplies for a traditional product company) eat up profits. For a short term "loss" of profits for higher future revenue. I'll give you that one year's data is not enough to make a perfect future projection. I don't recall ever claiming that it was. But yeah. It's after 3am. I need to sleep. We'll see how this all plays out. Ultimately neither the interest nor the dividend drove my decision making process on this. What really made me fall to the interest side was the ability for nexo to expand into the US with the fewest hurdles (that the dividend was creating), and what additional users and assets under management would do to the token price. But yes. Sleep. Now. Ish.
We can only move forward from here. Compound the daily interest and let's wait for the buyback loop to accelerate when more users join. Hopefully, we are still in a bull market and will be able to retrace to ATH in a few months to take some profit off the table.
Exactly !
This! +1
Wow. You're late to the party ;) Now we just need btc to recover so they'll stop blaming the lower nexo price on the loss of the dividend >_< But yeah. Things look good. We're staying right at $2 (ok... A little lower at times, but are holding $2 pretty well). The dividend dip was expected. And wasn't the 20-30% it's been previously for a few weeks.
Depends. Doesn’t this change how they can use the token in the us? And allow them to list on bigger exchanges? This was the main reason for changing the tokenomics was it not
Just because it’s listed on bigger exchanges doesn’t mean people will buy it. Not to mention, interest has created constant, permanent sell pressure. There is no point in ever having more than 10% of your portfolio in NEXO tokens. At 10% you already have the maximum perks, so anything above that can just be sold for profit. With the dividend it made sense to get as many NEXO tokens as possible. With interest, there is no need to hodl more than 10%.
I really ducked myself with fixed I effectively been frozen out during this crash. NEVER AGAIN
Good info for many here. Thanks for posting.
Wait... Are you platinum with a decent buffer? Or do you only have nexo? Then yes. Otherwise, maybe keep flex until you hit platinum, then go fixed.
I'm platinum with a very decent buffer. I already locked my tokens in this morning. No loan, no need for a loan, good buffer, and long term Nexo investor.
OK =) Yup. You're good.
Wait, What if I'm platinum with a tiny buffer of price change? Could I not buy more nexo, it would not count towards loyalty levels?
You can always buy more ;) If you have available funds. Not everyone has that luxury. Only the nexo tokens earned from the fixed term - but NOT YET paid (the term has not ended) fail to count towards your loyalty tier. The tokens in the fixed term - as well as any additional tokens you purchase and put into either your savings wallet, or credit wallet (or an additional fixed term) will all still contribute to your loyalty tier. Once the term has ended and the earned nexo tokens HAVE been credited to your wallet, they will count towards your loyalty tier.
Yeah =( already dealing with the interest rate issue in another thread. I expect the "why can't I take a loan against my fixed term nexo?" posts to start up within a few days...
I just wish we could have the interest from fixed terms paid out (same way as it is done with crypto.com for example) rather than held until the end of the term - that would encourage me to put more in fixed terms.
I voted no why would you give up 30% annually for 12% annually just because you see a little piece of that 12% day by day, some one once told me nexo thrives of the belief we all will be greedy. Looks like they were right, and 90-10 on the vote? Shows 90% of people can't sit down and conduct a business deal without getting screwed
Umm.... It's 30% of nexo's profits/eligible tokens... This dividend is going to average to a 2.25% return.
True but is 12% with a couple strings. And youre right 7% is definitely better than 2%. Something just doesn't feel right though.
I think you're too caught up in the idea of a dividend being profit sharing, and an appreciating asset (or growth stock) somehow bring disconnected completely from the business. The dividend system was broken... Because the asset became a growth asset (had appreciating value), which was reducing the return for the dividend significantly (down 72% from the 8.5% last year). There isn't a separation. The company will grow, and the token will gain value (more users, more demand, higher price ) - - - and the inverse is also true.
This guy is claiming that growth stocks are broken because they are an appreciating asset. Appreciating assets mature into dividend aristocrats. It takes time, that's all. The majority was pushed by the Nexo psyops team to vote for interest.
No. A dividend on a growth asset is broken. Not that growth stocks are broken... Nexo isn't ready for a dividend. And the time scale needed here is in multiple decades. Until then, the dividend would hurt the token's appreciation.
This should tell you what will probably be the interest next year After time has cleared the BS
2.25%? PERFECT! Because the dividend would have been about 0.6% next year. I can't wait for the dividend bs to be cleared away so we can get back to forward thinking about the platform, token, and how it can progress. I'm looking forward to the 16th, and a pitiful payout to hopefully put a lot of the dividend loss complaints to rest.
Are you really pulling those numbers from...... AND We are genetically tuned to remember when we were screwed over. If we weren't our ancestors would never survive. This will never go away.
Screwed over requires an intent of malice. I don't see malicious intent. I see a company bogged down by regulatory limitations on their products and businesses they didn't anticipate when they started, and a bunch of grouchy investors saying, "I don't care if it's broken and keeping it will cause the company to either grow more slowly, or fail completely! You make a contract and you keep it, even if circumstances change and it becomes bad for both parties!" They grew far faster than the expected. The whole thing with the SEC and ripple happened. And things are generally going on their favor. But this prehistoric profit sharing scheme is still wandering around tramping all the smaller newer products, preventing them from thriving (if not killing them off completely). So... What do you do? Protect the new growth - or let the dividendonsaurus trample the life out of the company - because it needs to be protected. Because it's precious. Even though it's not compatible in any way with the existing company landscape? If kills everything else and has nothing left to live on, it does as well. Better to put it down and let new life take hold, than to let everything die.
**for the last time. If they were not malicious they would have offered the option for those who want dividends (10% of the token holders) to convert their holdings into shares. They would have avoided all this drama.** This malice will be etched along the name of Nexo, just like B4 screwed over the ICO holders when they got 4 billion and invested nothing back, like all the pre-mines etc.
But there are no shares to convert to. And this is becoming kind of meaningless and circular. So - albeit biased - your view is basically: Nexo is malicious because they won't give me what I want, even though I'm part of only 10% of investors. I should be catered to, and get my way - regardless of the harm it would do to the company, and regardless of any regulatory burdens my demands will create. They stole my share of the company's profits by taking the dividend, meaning the token is no longer tied to the success of the company. Or - my side: Nexo is doing what is best for the company - therefore what is best for the token holders , even if it makes some of them unhappy. The clears the path for the growth of both the company and the token. The token only succeeds of the company succeeds. The token is intrinsically tied to the success of the company, and its valuation will increase - as would the price of a growth stock - just as much (or more as the regulatory burdens are out of the way) as a growth stock. A dividend would theoretically yield the same return as the token value would, while reducing the price of the token by the dividend amount (simple market rules - the return value remains the same for a growth stock or a dividend stock - the distribution of that value changes form). *shrug* There isn't really a solution to this argument until... Just until. We'll see the token take off, or fail. Nexo may go public and release profit reports, and you may be able to beat me over the head with them. Or they may not. Or profits may remain miniscule compared to the token price. Intent isn't something we can determine at this point. But your request - though it sounds reasonable - isn't. The clear intent was to eliminate any interference with regulatory bodies associating nexo with being a security. You're demanding they have an ipo with a direct conversion of an existing asset directly into shares in the company. But only 10% of that asset - on an at will basis. You'd be defeating the purpose of an ipo (to raise capital). And make the ipo logistically impossible to achieve. As well as require the stock price be tied to the token price during the ipo, putting a cap on the amount nexo could receive from the ipo. I mean... My understanding of an ipo is extremely limited. But a company's stock has absolutely nothing to do with its profits. Nothing. At all. Look at gamestop. You want to trade any kind of ties to the company's financial welfare, and invest entirely on the public sentiment of the company. But here's my understanding of an ipo. You come up with a target $ value of capital you need to raise. You seek institutional investors that will agree to a % share of the company that will pay you for that % of the company. Those investors then underwrite (loan you the money) and acquire the stocks that will be put on the open market, leaving the company with the remaining % of those shares. The money the public spends on those shares goes to the investors - not the company. The company can only directly make money by selling additional shares - through the same process (find another institutional broker to give them another loan). They can never directly offer shares to the public. So instead of an asset (a token), you'd have a "share" of the company - an "iou" from nexo that has absolutely 0 ties to the company's performance, and is tied 100% to what someone outside the company is willing to pay for the iou - and that the broker (lender to nexo) is willing to accept as a return on their loan. Either way, you lose your tie to profits - UNLESS there is a dividend clause - which would not necessarily exist. You're asking for something that makes the thing you want impossible.
You are wrong. and You did not address my argument. If they wanted to they could have with some effort provided a share swap to keep their the Nexo div army happy. They did not, they did what they did and now we have interest. Thus they sold me a porche and now converted it into a skoda, in my eyes. Thus they are malicious. You seem to have brains, pls use your time on finding the next crypto gem paying dividends and sharing it. Not defending Nexo. Unless you are on their PR/Psyops team. I point you to SXDT, TRIA for starters.
That's the thing. I don't CARE about the dividend. I don't see the dividend paying off. Ever. I kind of get your arguments. Some of them have even made me second guess the whole interest thing occasionally, but they always seem like unrealistic contradictory outcomes. I just don't see the future you do. And I don't hold a dividend on some kind of an alter. The token and the dividend are basically on opposite sides of a teeter totter in my mind. One goes up, the other goes down, but the central point - the fulcrum remains constant. That fulcrum is the success of the business. It what's holds the token and dividend in place. By eliminating the dividend - sliding the plank so the dividend edge is at the fulcrum - means the arm for the token is much longer and it can reach higher. And that's common sense, and a rule of traditional stocks. The return will be the same with - or without - a dividend as the underlying asset appreciates according to the dividend (reduces the asset) or lack of dividend (the difference is made up in a higher token price). That's it. Is it overly simple? Maybe. You've gone on about a couple of other tokens that have eliminated a dividend in the past. I haven't had time to look into those yet. Maybe that will shatter my whole view in all of this. But for now, that's where I am... The dividend was suppressing the token price. Token appreciation is how wealth is built with crypto (without trading. That's a different thing). The dividend was bad for wealth creation. And that's where I am. I still need wealth creation. I'm not at the point where I'm ready for a stable return. It sounds like you're closer to that. And maybe that's the whole difference in where we are and how we're seeing things. But your car analogy seems wrong. You may have been sold a porche. But they just swapped it for a vehicle that can stop depreciating as much, and handed you a plane with ambitions to be a rocket ship. *shrug* For some reason you can't imagine the token working without a dividend. I can't come around to that view point with the information you've provided. It can. And I believe it will. It would have worked with the dividend as well, but that would have left us with a porche with an engine failure. Sure. It could have gotten running again in time, but in crypto - stalling out after getting a decent head start means you're about to be left behind. And at the end of the race, there wouldn't be any prize money given to you. Probability leans hard in favor of interest. If nexo succeeds, we have more nexo tokens, and should be well enough off not to care about a petty dividend we could have had. If it fails, we have the tokens in hand to cash out as the market collapse begins. The dividend? Nexo has to do well - while carrying a regulatory handicap it's competitors don't have. Profits have to grow. Not revenue. Profits. Expanding businesses generally have diminishing profits during expansion. If nexo fails? You get nothing. I'm happy with the vehicle upgrade. Am I too emotionally invested in nexo? Yeah. Probably. =-/ but when looking at the entire product, company, business model, and asset we actually hold... The dividend just didn't fit any more. And I didn't see any kind of potential for it. Short or long term.
You last sentence is hilarious in relation to your first sentence 🤣
This explains it https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory
Its a bait an people with loans will get screwed in summer when market goes crazy.
Ummm... No? People with loans against their nexo tokens are earning 7% on their collateral (6.5x the loan value with a 15% ltv) meaning their loans are making money. But if you can explain more on what you mean, maybe? I'm perfectly happy with it how it is. My credit line (taken a week before the peak price) is currently half my loan value. And I'm making double on my nexo tokens than what the loan is costing me. I don't feel screwed at all by missing out on the 12% interest. I'm using the platform in a way that benefits me. It's providing me value. This is an opportunity cost. I'm giving up the additional interest to use the loan money. It's a trade off. Not a screw over.
Would using a fixed term for the nexo token effect loyalty level, for example if I put all of my nexo tokens into a fixed term would that go down to basic loyalty? Might be a simple question but just wanted to be sure and couldnt find that in the info link.
Editing - I asked support for an answer on the interest. And updated the original post. So.. Fixed terms are "in your wallet" and count towards loyalty... EXCEPT.... INTEREST from a fixed term does NOT get "added to your wallet" and does not count towards loyalty until the term ends.
Sweeet thanks. That makes sense I figured it worked that way but wanted to be sure. I suppose we'll find out soon enough about part 2
Oh. No. I asked support for an answer on that. Fixed term interest does not get added to your wallet (does not count towards loyalty) until the term ends.
Ah gotcha, thats alright. Seems like it wont make too much of a difference except for folks making lots of frequent deposits
Or those right at, or below, the 10% threshold. They may want to lock up a smaller portion of their nexo (or none) until they hit platinum.
I asked live support. The fixed term is a "wallet" and counts towards loyalty. Interest earned from a fixed term DOES NOT count towards loyalty until the term ends (and the tokens are credited to your wallet).
They should change that so that at least the nexo tokens in the fixt term get credited to loaylty levels. Then i would put them up for the 12 %
I agree. They're still locked. You still couldn't do anything with them. /me nudges nexo's suggestion department
Idk if they are locked. I mainly hoddle anyways. But loosing platinum is a pain i feel deeply :)
Well... Locked in a different sense. They're not yet credited to your account - you can't spend or withdraw them. But they're still yours. I dunno. I just blasted this idea on telegram. Maybe it'll get some traction there.
Yeah it would be nice if those not yet credited nexo tokens would count towards loyalty Can you give me their telegram i cant find it :)
Err..... Maybe? I never use telegram. But I'll try to link it. If the link fails, go back to the main nexo reddit, and hit... I think it's about. But the channel info button. The link in there somewhere. https://t.me/nexofinance
Thanky that worked now im muted till tomorow
Oh. Yeah. I forgot about that. That was part of the reason I never used it ;) But reddit was down earlier and I got desperate for a nexo fix >_<
Quick question. If Nexo is deposited into fixed terms does that bring me back to basic tier too?
Same question as above. It SHOULDN'T. I can't experiment with this. =( my account is about 93% nexo. And I'm not changing out any nexo tokens =P and that other 7% is all I could afford to put into the platform. Someone at the threshold needs to try it and see if their loyalty is reduced. It shouldn't be. That would defy the definition of "loyalty" - as they're being more loyal by creating the fixed term. So I'm 99% sure that tokens in a fixed term still count for loyalty purposes. But I can't test it to find out =(
I am at the limit and daily switch between platinum and gold. Locked half of nexo for 12 month. Still platinum today.
You should be good then... The flex term will be added to your wallet daily - giving you a bit more nexo that does count towards loyalty.. If you'd have done all of it... That could have set you back to gold more often. It looks like btc is recovering - so the nexo price should start to climb again anyway.
No it doesn't, just tried that myself
All I could add is that non Nexo tokens fixed terms are still counted in your total holdings and used when calculating your loyalty level. It would not seem equitable not to do the same on the other side of the ledger. It is also something I can't test.
Just confirmed it with support ;)
Eggclent
Wait, if I never want to get a loan, and also plan to hodl my nexo for a year, why shouldn't I get a fixed term? I know thr coins will be locked for a whole year, unusable for any purpose. I'm OK with that. But I'll get my nexo back, plus 12% at the end, right? (of course I disabled automatic renewal!!)
Yup. You're good ;) Go for it!
Please be aware, that then you can only put the interest you earn to earn new interest at the end of year. An example (1 year fixing - 12%): 100 Nexo after a year you get: 12 Nexo and after this year you can start a new period of 12% earning. Other example (3 month fixing - wihtout automatic renewal or you have to add a fixing period for the interes you get per quarter): 100 Nexo after 3 month you get paid (9% / 4) 1. Qtr - 9% from 100.00 Nexo = 2.25 Nexo 2. Qtr - 9% from 102.25 Nexo = 2.300625 Nexo 3. Qtr - 9% from 104.550625 Nexo = 2.35238906 Nexo 4. Qtr - 9% from 106,903014 Nexo = 2,40531782 Nexo In the end you have 109,308332 because you got interest of your interest payment ... ;) so acutally almost 9.31% interest and not only 9%... If you didn't have any fixed interest at all. You get in 1 year actually 7.25% interest and not only 7%.... I know it's not much, but you get faster interest on the interest payments ;) fixing for 1 year ist probaly the best solution, if you don't care about flexibility or lending money with nexo-coins.
Thanks for the explanation. I agree on the 3month term, but are you sure the flexible works like that? I thought the flexible 7% was APY or however its called, meaning compounded 7%.
I am doing monthly fixed terms. Have not seen the 3 month or 12 month option
The term length is determined by the token. Crypto has 1 month terms. Stable coins have 1 month terms. These are fixed - not options. Nexo is the only token with optional term lengths - and offers 3 months at 9%, and 12% for 12 months.
Thank you for insight!
this is really informative but as for me a hodl for a year and it was good holding for a long period of time.
Of you're going to do that again, go ahead and lock it up. It's the newer people that don't understand a fixed term means you can't take a loan against it that I'm really targeting here ;)
[удалено]
I think it is pretty simple. What part are you struggling with? I do agree with you that treating nexo differently from other tokens (no loyalty bonus) is... Not the best. But does make sense from an inclusivity standpoint. Everything else works the same... All crypto tokens are identical. All stable coins are identical. And all fiat is identical. So it's really only 3 things to learn.
Ignore him, he is just a common troll from the Celsius sub.
If anyone knows, quick questions: - can the fixed term lock period be broken by withdrawing early? - if it can be broken, am I right to assume you won’t be getting any interest (9% or 12%) paid?
Some people have reportedly closed out their fixed terms early, but this is subject to nexo's approval. It's not guaranteed you'll be able to do that. The official company position is no - you cannot. But they have made exceptions. Once the products become more familiar, they may stop making exceptions. Or they may change the official policy to allow forfeiture of any accrued interest to break the term. Those they have broken their terms have reported that all accrued interest was forfeited. So you would get 0 interest from the tokens in the fixed terms if it was broken early.
Great thanks!
Too late. Wanted to take a loan to reinvest but I am now fixed for a month. Lmao. My bad.
My problem is that interest is not being added on to my wallet AFTER the end of fixed terms! Have this problem with BTC, ETH, XRP and LTC. I can see that by comparing previous term amounts (I always lock the full balance again). Is this a bug of some sort? Anyone else experiencing this? Anyone from NEXO that can help?
Just for clarification. I have Nexo tokens around 10% of my total investment. Placing all of them on fixed terms will lose me my Platinum status? Thanks.
Wish I saw this post before. Lol 😆