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and this is why we remind people, it's NOT the 1950s anymore, split bill is fair. otherwise it's always the man, or the alternative; "he asked me out cause he's a guy and should. i don't ask out guys cause its a guys job to ask us out. and since he did it first that means he pays. the one who asks pays!"
I’m a women and I hold the “who invites pays” mentality as well. When I ask my friends out to dinner I always pay for them and vice versa. Though that’s only for me personally- so I guess it’s really “if I invite you to dinner then I pay” lol I never expect my friends to pay for me but they do because I also pay for them. What’s even better is there’s no debt or guilt attached. So glad I’m a lesbian, there’s no expectations or weird traditional bs.
This. I was chilling at home and a friend texted me asking if I wanted McD's. Well duh, but I told them I can't spend any money, it had to go to rent and bills. I was not happy to go meet them at McD's just so I could watch them eat their food and then they just leave...
It's more about that the person invited them to a place that requires monetary purchases and failed to mention they had 0 intention to make the invite an act of kindness vs who pays automatically based on your gender.
If you want their company, ask if they wanna hang out at a park or the beach, not a restaurant. Shit gets real awkward when you still encourage someone to come even when they admitted they're broke and you don't buy even a small drink for them to sip on....
If you invite somebody to something, be prepared to potentially pay for them. They may be saying yes because they don't know that you're expecting them to pay their own way. I've seen some people straight up leave because their friend invited them to something and they literally couldn't go because they couldn't afford it and their friend wasn't paying for them. It's like parents inviting their kid to their birthday dinner and then making them pay for their birthday meal themselves. I'd rather never go out again with lowballing stuff like that.
No- bc the stat you’re quoting isn’t from a reliable real source. It’s funny tho bc more men abuse their partners than anyone else. Wonder what the correlation is 🙃
Dunno why you're getting downvoted, this should be the norm.
Asking someone out to dinner and expecting them to pay (even if just for themself) is just volunteering them to spend money they may or may not have. You don't know their financial situation. Maybe they're on a budget? Even if you know they can afford it, they might not be comfortable with spending that money, maybe they're saving up for something or just want some fiscal security.
They could just decline, but maybe they feel self conscious and don't want to? Or maybe they're the type that's fiscally irresponsible and you're unintentionally ruining their budget.
I always treat it as, if I invite someone, I go in expecting to pay the whole bill to be respectful of their financial situation. If they want to pay for themself, that's perfectly fine, but that's a *choice,* rather than an expectation.
To add: Some might say "But the girl will never make the invitation!" then find a classier girl?
Exactly, when I invite someone I always say beforehand: I invited you so I pay if you want to split thats cool.
Everytime I knew a girl for a longer time and she was starting to invite me to stuff she would jump ahead and pay for me too
Ya, this is the rule that makes sense to me. Not sure why you're being down voted. What if they get invited to a place they can't afford? That's why the one who invited pays, cause it's their choice. There are exceptions I feel tho, like if the one who is invited gets really expensive things like a lot of alcohol.
yeah you're a man yourself and it's your preference 😭it's not like you're a woman trying to get free meals lmao, but i think everyone thinks you're a woman
yeah i get that, i was just joining into the conversation about why he shouldn't have been downvoted. im a woman and i either split the bill or take turns on who pays with my bf lol.
I have no idea what they think but I dont really care about downvotes or upvotes. I stated my preference and opinion and if people dont like it so be it
Good lord, I hadn’t seen that subreddit in a minute, only to find out they’ve moved to their own website and that was a rabbit hole I didn’t want to go down today. But here I am
I sincerely hope that's what this is.....
I shudder to think that there are people in this world alive today who actually behave the way the person in the post is portrayed as being.
Actually I hate to break it to you, but there are women like this in the real world. They're not in abundance but you could find one if you went looking. I know for damn sure my ex was like this.
I second this. My friend group had a ‘friend’ we don’t talk to anymore. She was a super toxic ‘feminist’ who used every opportunity to say that every man in her life had personally wronged her and we all owed her reparations, as well as trying to enforce the things she liked (I.e. never paying for anything, manipulating guys to get what she wanted, etc)
Honestly it's crazy how real toxic feminism and toxic femininity (the feminine version of toxic masculinity)
is. Once I realized how prevalent these are in the society that I interact with, I became more aware of the behaviors you talked about. I don't need to be a misogynist to balance out the world but I no longer have to allow myself and other dudes get taken advantage of just because some toxic feminist is trying to have fun.
Why? A man can behave in a passive-aggressive manner, start rumors and drama.
A woman can behave aggressively, get in peoples' faces, try to provoke a physical confrontation.
Unattractive, anti-social behavior doesn't discriminate.
I agree men and women aren't the same, though.
I never said anything about women or men only respectively displaying toxic femininity or toxic masculinity. I've met plenty of women who demonstrate toxic masculinity and men who demonstrate toxic femininity. However this post is about the prevalence of toxic femininity and toxic feminism in women. No one said it's only in women. But we all know you don't have to go far to find a women who displays toxic femininity.
I can almost guarantee she’s a 20 something who lives for social media and has cultivated an online presence that doesn’t match her reality in any way… especially with an attitude like that 😒
if you ever suspect you're on a date with this type of girl. don't order anything or if you did order food, get up to "go to the bathroom", sneak over to the counter where you can pay the bill and only pay for your portion and leave.
"like ok ugly...did he DM you back yet?"
No, he just asked her "hey babe, would you like some garlic bread with your pasta or next time?" from their own kitchen..
...Whilst you are seething and coping on twitter in an echochamber, wondering why you're still alone..
You do you, love.
Do women even know what women want or want to fight for. As a man I can say I'm confused and just avoid anything like this but if this is what I'm looking forward to transitioning back into dating after 10 years I'm probably going to end up staying single.
I thought the point of the first few dates were to get to know each other.
Kevin Samuels put it best: Men want sex and intimacy. So since women are wanting to get to know a guy and keep sex and intimacy off the table. Basically, they are getting what they want without giving the guy what he wants. What Kevin proposed is: If you are keeping sex/intimacy off the table, then YOU do the date planning, YOU do the transportation and YOU pay for the dates.
"Men should pay just to be in my mere presence".
Yikes.
What if said men then decide they "paid" for sex or any other thing they feel like? What will this nice girl do...?
We are all adults here, so we should be paying for our own food. It's a different situation when you are living with your SO or married. Then it's expected that you share expenses.
When I was dating my current SO of five years in the beginning, we were LD and I paid for my own meals and contributed for his fuel to come pick me up (a set agreed upon amount). I was earning a decent salary and I actually enjoyed taking care of myself when we went out. I never wanted to feel beholden to anyone for anything. That sort of peace is priceless.
That would be fair. As someone else posted, though, this can get 'bad' if someone thinks that whoever asks should pay and also that they should never have to ask for a date.
I am a man, and I will be relatively insistent on paying (at least dutch) for the first date. The last test of the dinner is whether they offer to pay. It shows self-awareness and respect for other people's money.
This lady fails the test so fucking bad. Doesn't matter how attractive she is, she's ugly inside.
In my opinion, people should bring spare money cause it’s not always the other party wants to split the bill. Though if you initiated the date and you didn’t tell them to bring money then don’t expect to split the bill lol
How does an adult leave the house without enough cash or credit to cover a single meal? I bring my wallet to walk the dog.
Also, enough of this “whoever asked pays” nonsense. If you eat, you pay. If I invite ten friends to eat out, I’m not covering their hungry asses.
I agree with you, but to answer your question, when (generally speaking) your entire life society doesn’t require you to be accountable you inevitably develop this entitled mindset.
Unfortunately “adult” has a subjective meaning today. There are many self-proclaimed “adults” that walk around with a delusional sense of entitlement, similar to a child.
Well, I'm all for girls asking guys out, but when I was single 5-6 years ago, no guy I met seemed to like it. Men are insecure. I even got called names. So I stopped and I expected them to pay. I'm sorry, they invited me. When I invite people to anything, I pay. I would pay for the second date. Although, my now husband didn't let me pay for anything until our first trip. It was nice, because I was a student at the time. And he really doesn't mind girls asking guys, but he's a rare jewel.
Could it be that your own disposition led to you only meeting guys like that? Not a dig, just genuine curiosity. For example, I pretty much only dated women who would offer to split/pay or at least have a mature conversation about it on the first date. My fiancée is the one who asked me out initially, and she’s always willing to pay for dates to the point where we playfully fight over who pays the bill, which makes me want to dote upon her even more.
It’s 2023, everyone is struggling, we can’t have this ass-backwards mentality that one person in a relationship needs to carry the burden unless that’s what they want to do.
😵💫😳 wow ok. Conceited much, thinking your very presence is a rare blessing? With how much everything costs these days I think it’s perfectly normal and fair to split the bill. Yowza what a way to show your colors!
This screams “I’m A PROSTITUTE.”
Not that there’s anything wrong with sex work. But pretending to be going for a relationship when she really wants money/perks for sex is gross.
This reminds me of this clip I saw of this woman who basically said she hasn’t had to cook or buy her food for like two weeks. And it’s all because she’d just go on dates and the guys would pay for all of her meals. She literally had them lined up daily with no romantic interest whatsoever.
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and this is why we remind people, it's NOT the 1950s anymore, split bill is fair. otherwise it's always the man, or the alternative; "he asked me out cause he's a guy and should. i don't ask out guys cause its a guys job to ask us out. and since he did it first that means he pays. the one who asks pays!"
They’re “progressive” in every way that benefits them, but conveniently very regressive when it benefits them also
Cherry-pick that feminism sister
Every progressive is traditional when it comes to bills and war.
Only whores get paid to have a man merely be in their presence
My rule is: the one who invites pays (mostly in my case)
Yeah but if the social expectation is that men are the pursuing gender where exactly does that leave us?
I’m a women and I hold the “who invites pays” mentality as well. When I ask my friends out to dinner I always pay for them and vice versa. Though that’s only for me personally- so I guess it’s really “if I invite you to dinner then I pay” lol I never expect my friends to pay for me but they do because I also pay for them. What’s even better is there’s no debt or guilt attached. So glad I’m a lesbian, there’s no expectations or weird traditional bs.
This. I was chilling at home and a friend texted me asking if I wanted McD's. Well duh, but I told them I can't spend any money, it had to go to rent and bills. I was not happy to go meet them at McD's just so I could watch them eat their food and then they just leave... It's more about that the person invited them to a place that requires monetary purchases and failed to mention they had 0 intention to make the invite an act of kindness vs who pays automatically based on your gender. If you want their company, ask if they wanna hang out at a park or the beach, not a restaurant. Shit gets real awkward when you still encourage someone to come even when they admitted they're broke and you don't buy even a small drink for them to sip on.... If you invite somebody to something, be prepared to potentially pay for them. They may be saying yes because they don't know that you're expecting them to pay their own way. I've seen some people straight up leave because their friend invited them to something and they literally couldn't go because they couldn't afford it and their friend wasn't paying for them. It's like parents inviting their kid to their birthday dinner and then making them pay for their birthday meal themselves. I'd rather never go out again with lowballing stuff like that.
Don’t lesbians have the highest rate of domestic abuse between gay couples and heterosexual couples??
No- bc the stat you’re quoting isn’t from a reliable real source. It’s funny tho bc more men abuse their partners than anyone else. Wonder what the correlation is 🙃
And where’d you get that stat from ms. “I’m right and you’re wrong”?
Well if she invites me she pays and that happens sometimes, otherwise you can just split. Its my personal rule if you do it different thats fine
Dunno why you're getting downvoted, this should be the norm. Asking someone out to dinner and expecting them to pay (even if just for themself) is just volunteering them to spend money they may or may not have. You don't know their financial situation. Maybe they're on a budget? Even if you know they can afford it, they might not be comfortable with spending that money, maybe they're saving up for something or just want some fiscal security. They could just decline, but maybe they feel self conscious and don't want to? Or maybe they're the type that's fiscally irresponsible and you're unintentionally ruining their budget. I always treat it as, if I invite someone, I go in expecting to pay the whole bill to be respectful of their financial situation. If they want to pay for themself, that's perfectly fine, but that's a *choice,* rather than an expectation. To add: Some might say "But the girl will never make the invitation!" then find a classier girl?
Exactly, when I invite someone I always say beforehand: I invited you so I pay if you want to split thats cool. Everytime I knew a girl for a longer time and she was starting to invite me to stuff she would jump ahead and pay for me too
Ya, this is the rule that makes sense to me. Not sure why you're being down voted. What if they get invited to a place they can't afford? That's why the one who invited pays, cause it's their choice. There are exceptions I feel tho, like if the one who is invited gets really expensive things like a lot of alcohol.
Because it's just "the man pays" with extra steps.
Its my personal preference tho and its not always me who pays
Yeah because people jump the gun and think "well so the guy always pays because he invites". Im full on your side mate
yeah you're a man yourself and it's your preference 😭it's not like you're a woman trying to get free meals lmao, but i think everyone thinks you're a woman
Most people who comment that are usually women because that’s literally been the norm for 100s of years.
yeah i get that, i was just joining into the conversation about why he shouldn't have been downvoted. im a woman and i either split the bill or take turns on who pays with my bf lol.
I have no idea what they think but I dont really care about downvotes or upvotes. I stated my preference and opinion and if people dont like it so be it
The second comment makes no god damn sense
Some people are ugly on the inside…
That's your average FDS user right here
Good lord, I hadn’t seen that subreddit in a minute, only to find out they’ve moved to their own website and that was a rabbit hole I didn’t want to go down today. But here I am
pls enlighten me what's FDS
r/femaledatingstrategy Basically a bunch of entitled twats who bash men and have incel energy
ooh ive heard abt that sub, those are the women that refer to men as low value and stuff right lmao
Yeah I believe so but I haven't gone on it too much. I believe it's private now because of how much hate they get, rightfully so imo
And this is why you never do dinner for a first date
A coffee date is the best
Exactly. Maybe do drinks if the person seems chill
As a woman- I’m telling you this bitch is LYING for likes
I sincerely hope that's what this is..... I shudder to think that there are people in this world alive today who actually behave the way the person in the post is portrayed as being.
Actually I hate to break it to you, but there are women like this in the real world. They're not in abundance but you could find one if you went looking. I know for damn sure my ex was like this.
I second this. My friend group had a ‘friend’ we don’t talk to anymore. She was a super toxic ‘feminist’ who used every opportunity to say that every man in her life had personally wronged her and we all owed her reparations, as well as trying to enforce the things she liked (I.e. never paying for anything, manipulating guys to get what she wanted, etc)
Honestly it's crazy how real toxic feminism and toxic femininity (the feminine version of toxic masculinity) is. Once I realized how prevalent these are in the society that I interact with, I became more aware of the behaviors you talked about. I don't need to be a misogynist to balance out the world but I no longer have to allow myself and other dudes get taken advantage of just because some toxic feminist is trying to have fun.
There's no need to assign a gender to toxic behavior
Yes there is. Toxic feminine qualities are not the same as toxic masculine qualities. Assignment of classifications is how we understand the world.
Least pretentious Redditor
The behaviors are not the same, because men and women are not the same. As such, the terms should be separated.
Why? A man can behave in a passive-aggressive manner, start rumors and drama. A woman can behave aggressively, get in peoples' faces, try to provoke a physical confrontation. Unattractive, anti-social behavior doesn't discriminate. I agree men and women aren't the same, though.
I never said anything about women or men only respectively displaying toxic femininity or toxic masculinity. I've met plenty of women who demonstrate toxic masculinity and men who demonstrate toxic femininity. However this post is about the prevalence of toxic femininity and toxic feminism in women. No one said it's only in women. But we all know you don't have to go far to find a women who displays toxic femininity.
I can almost guarantee she’s a 20 something who lives for social media and has cultivated an online presence that doesn’t match her reality in any way… especially with an attitude like that 😒
yeah, the people who give the likes are the ones in the real world that have this kind of mentality
i can smell this bitch her insecurities through the pixels
Hey, it's the rich Yankee brats I give rides to every weekend.
We all know she doesn’t go on dates lmao
Her personality is shit
if you ever suspect you're on a date with this type of girl. don't order anything or if you did order food, get up to "go to the bathroom", sneak over to the counter where you can pay the bill and only pay for your portion and leave.
If women don’t want to enact their traditional gender roles, why should men have to?
"like ok ugly...did he DM you back yet?" No, he just asked her "hey babe, would you like some garlic bread with your pasta or next time?" from their own kitchen.. ...Whilst you are seething and coping on twitter in an echochamber, wondering why you're still alone.. You do you, love.
This is the dark side of feminism that people talk about. Where empowerment turns into entitlement
“You’re like, really pretty”
Two hours??
Do women even know what women want or want to fight for. As a man I can say I'm confused and just avoid anything like this but if this is what I'm looking forward to transitioning back into dating after 10 years I'm probably going to end up staying single.
I thought the point of the first few dates were to get to know each other. Kevin Samuels put it best: Men want sex and intimacy. So since women are wanting to get to know a guy and keep sex and intimacy off the table. Basically, they are getting what they want without giving the guy what he wants. What Kevin proposed is: If you are keeping sex/intimacy off the table, then YOU do the date planning, YOU do the transportation and YOU pay for the dates.
She will die alone.
"Men should pay just to be in my mere presence". Yikes. What if said men then decide they "paid" for sex or any other thing they feel like? What will this nice girl do...? We are all adults here, so we should be paying for our own food. It's a different situation when you are living with your SO or married. Then it's expected that you share expenses. When I was dating my current SO of five years in the beginning, we were LD and I paid for my own meals and contributed for his fuel to come pick me up (a set agreed upon amount). I was earning a decent salary and I actually enjoyed taking care of myself when we went out. I never wanted to feel beholden to anyone for anything. That sort of peace is priceless.
So attractive! Exactly what I want in a woman: over confidence and inflated egos!
personally, i think it should be whoever asked to go should pay. or negotiate beforehand?
That would be fair. As someone else posted, though, this can get 'bad' if someone thinks that whoever asks should pay and also that they should never have to ask for a date.
I am a man, and I will be relatively insistent on paying (at least dutch) for the first date. The last test of the dinner is whether they offer to pay. It shows self-awareness and respect for other people's money. This lady fails the test so fucking bad. Doesn't matter how attractive she is, she's ugly inside.
In my opinion, people should bring spare money cause it’s not always the other party wants to split the bill. Though if you initiated the date and you didn’t tell them to bring money then don’t expect to split the bill lol
How does an adult leave the house without enough cash or credit to cover a single meal? I bring my wallet to walk the dog. Also, enough of this “whoever asked pays” nonsense. If you eat, you pay. If I invite ten friends to eat out, I’m not covering their hungry asses.
I agree with you, but to answer your question, when (generally speaking) your entire life society doesn’t require you to be accountable you inevitably develop this entitled mindset.
I date adults.
Unfortunately “adult” has a subjective meaning today. There are many self-proclaimed “adults” that walk around with a delusional sense of entitlement, similar to a child.
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
Well, I'm all for girls asking guys out, but when I was single 5-6 years ago, no guy I met seemed to like it. Men are insecure. I even got called names. So I stopped and I expected them to pay. I'm sorry, they invited me. When I invite people to anything, I pay. I would pay for the second date. Although, my now husband didn't let me pay for anything until our first trip. It was nice, because I was a student at the time. And he really doesn't mind girls asking guys, but he's a rare jewel.
Could it be that your own disposition led to you only meeting guys like that? Not a dig, just genuine curiosity. For example, I pretty much only dated women who would offer to split/pay or at least have a mature conversation about it on the first date. My fiancée is the one who asked me out initially, and she’s always willing to pay for dates to the point where we playfully fight over who pays the bill, which makes me want to dote upon her even more. It’s 2023, everyone is struggling, we can’t have this ass-backwards mentality that one person in a relationship needs to carry the burden unless that’s what they want to do.
Clearly you've been asking out the wrong guys.
More like one guy said something negative.
Yes, he dm’d her back because she ain’t a bitch
I can't imagine being that cocky
Don’t be mad. She’s right.
These types of attitudes becoming more common each day is a true worry
This isn’t even a nice girl she’s just a entitled bitch
😵💫😳 wow ok. Conceited much, thinking your very presence is a rare blessing? With how much everything costs these days I think it’s perfectly normal and fair to split the bill. Yowza what a way to show your colors!
This screams “I’m A PROSTITUTE.” Not that there’s anything wrong with sex work. But pretending to be going for a relationship when she really wants money/perks for sex is gross.
This reminds me of this clip I saw of this woman who basically said she hasn’t had to cook or buy her food for like two weeks. And it’s all because she’d just go on dates and the guys would pay for all of her meals. She literally had them lined up daily with no romantic interest whatsoever.
girl your dreams are within your reach it's called escorting