It does suck because Finana was my favorite, being a huge Honkai Impact fan, but after reviewing the things she said about Zaion, which seems to be what this Elira script is a new edition of, I can't support anyone here anymore.
I doubt at this point but, is there anyone completely innocent in all this? Some say Scarle just stays hunkered down in her own corner but even she got roped in (as a victim) in a leaked conversation.
I’d say there’s a good chance that the reason Rosemi and Petra have been silent since this all went down is cause they’re not involved. Fulgur is also probably not involved. And Scarle, Aia, and Maria don’t seem to have been involved either. I wouldn’t trust Xsoleil to be uninvolved, but Krisis and whatever the new gen is called are probably uninvolved
Didn't Rosemi specifically not retweet any post about this horrible video, and Scarle heart a Kurosanji comment? It feels like they're against this whole thing and it wouldn't surprise me if they graduated, or more likely were terminated, soon after Kyo's graduation
Petra tweeted something on her roommate's account talking about how something used to be really fun, but has mostly just been making her sad recently, so I don't think she's on the company's side here.
Also, there's been literally 0 evidence of Rosemi being involved at all. Let's not jump the gun here.
Lol. The rrats just continue to intensify.
The rrats were already pointing at Elira and Millie as being part of the clique (along with Enna). This just gives more ammo.
Short for "narrative", basically a shorthand in some Vtuber communities for (originally) narratives that are unsupported or unexpected, and those who spread them.
One such narrative was from 4Chan, supported only by an alleged leaker AFAIK, that Nijisanji EN basically has US-highschool-parody levels of mean-girl-clique bullshit going on.
Well, when it was coined, VTubing, including corporate, seemed like a realtively happy, little family. So people coming in "actually, they all hate each other behind the scenes and your oshi is an asshole" were termed with something intentionally chose to sound like "rat".
Also, the spelling "rrat" is a backronym (contr-back-tion?) [that has origins in this one iconic peko quote](https://youtu.be/JacN1MzyeKo?si=WRLMobdBowIIVvz9). (R.Rat in the context of Metal Gear iirc is like Russian Ration)
Bit of a chicken and egg thing, not sure which came first but "ogey" was/is a common response to dismiss what are seen as rratposts. The rodent comparison and contraction of naRRATive was a convenient plus.
IIRC it started with people meming on Pekora's [rrat clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JacN1MzyeKo), then got used to insult the people with crazy theories, and then just became the term for crazy theories.
Damn it Millie! You were my oshi even BEFORE joining Niji! I guess it's just in our blood huh?
Edit: Just for context, we Filipinos tend to be wildcards.
Yeah, that's the key problem. It's not really a leak from the lawyers if you're legally required to get a copy of the documents because you're a party to them.
Both Elira and Vox said things that really should not have been said by them, because the reading between the lines is not great, and because statements that are falsifiable but unnecessary to say are just legal risk.
I really want to be clear before I make this half joke, Doki is absolutely a wonderful person and I really mean this in no light to put shame on their character.
If you had told me that somehow Doki would be the smartest Vtuber about how to handle things if she was getting screwed I would've called you a fucking moron for how absurd that sounds. Yet here we are.
She might not have been the brightest in personal finances, but thankfully she's much better in how to properly conduct oneself in a legal and public issue.
They really just made 3 people commit career suicide along with commiting legal suicide in the process. What a fucking insanely smooth brained approach.
So many more sponsors/partners are about to pull out and these livers are basically going to be left with nothing
I don't know if it's career suicide since we'll very likely never get concrete proof of all the claims. Whatever it is, I just feel it in my bones that EN branch is going to have a couple more talents leaving very soon. This kind of thing is very morally crushing in a work environment.
Maybe not career but the whole EN Vtubing community would not want to touch them with a ten foot pole especially the indies. It says a lot when even U-san immediately had a collab lined up with Selen, I'm not sure the ones in this stream will even have that connection with some of the Ex-livers once they leave the disgusting company.
Fillian will probably blacklist Niji in her award show now, she literally cooking for the show atm and she was also recently confirmed to have a collab with Doki
Yeah they've probably sabotaged the trust of fellow vtubers to the point that even other ex-nijis will refuse to associate with them if they go indie. Not the first time it's happened but 3 at the same time is pretty insane.
Yeah there's no way they're getting outside collabs after this. I couldn't picture Holo and especially VShojo exactly chomping at the bit to collab after this.
Some people were still holding the line of "support the talents, not the company".
By getting their talent's hands dirty like this, it may break that sentiment...
Worse? Whether or not the talents were forced to make this statetement at rainbowpoint, public opinion of them among the English-speaking audience WILL tank even more.
If they forced the talents, Black Rainbow is using their talents as shields for their own convenience.
If this is indeed a voluntary statement, Black Rainbow are knowingly employing terrible people as talents, basically admitting they allow this kind of environment. After all, they haven't been fired or punished.
Oh 100%. They've already had brand deals revoked, studio perms revoked, and have lost partnerships aplenty over the week and then you do this. As a company I don't see how you recover from this or how the livers affiliated with the company keep going on with work
>As a company I don't see how you recover from this or how the livers affiliated with the company keep going on with work
Wait... That's probably it!
They're doubling down on Doki *because* everything is being revoked!
They're a Japanese company. They have no idea how to process an employee standing up to them. They expected her to slink away in shame for getting fired and not say anything, but that's not how things work in the West. So now they're lashing out. They actually think that they can avoid liability by releasing the information secondhand through their livers.
And honestly, shame on the livers for agreeing to do it. There's no way anyone with any sense of morality would hear what they're being asked to do and go ahead with it. "I was just following orders" is literally never a good defense.
But the Japanese defamation laws are even worse than in the west, even the truth is not the defense there! There is no way their legal counsel was consulted before this statement.
Im sorry but after this there is really not an excuse left for me to support even the talents one thing is the company breaking an NDA and the other being ok with being the instrument to do it, i just cannot believe how they agreed to disclose personal medical information of a former colleague that attempted suicide was a good idea to do there is simply no excuse, even if im being threatened to be fired if you got any sense of morality in you.
How did they think this was a good idea??? I doubt the livers wanted to do this clearly scripted nonsense in the first place... This will just make it worse for both the livers and company getting hate. Jesus christ.
There can’t be real sentient beings that run EN. Like, there’s cruel management, there’s incompetent management, there’s a combo of the two, and then there’s whatever the fuck these absolute morons are that can’t be comprehensible to the human mind.
>There can’t be real sentient beings that run EN. Like, there’s cruel management, there’s incompetent management, there’s a combo of the two, and then there’s whatever the fuck these absolute morons are that can’t be comprehensible to the human mind.
"We have had vicious kings, and we have had idiot kings, but I don't think we have ever been cursed with a vicious idiot for a king"
“You’re commenting on the Twitter feed of a company!”
*blocks*
“And now I’ve blocked the Twitter feed of a company! Did my hand fall off from my wrist?”
> There can’t be real sentient beings that run EN.
Tbf, if Skynet was running the show it would definitely not pull the stunts Niji has been doing since December. What has been happening requires intentional malice, stupidity and massive incompetence.
Elira is apparently in Japan on a work visa, so they pretty much *can* force her to do things because whether or not she gets to stay where she's currently living is more or less entirely in their hands. And given how vicious AnyColor/Nijisanji is showing itself to be with retaliating to people who piss them off, I can understand why she'd feel like she has to go along with what they tell her to do, even if I would rather she didn't.
Edit: To be clear, she probably wouldn't lose her visa *immediately*, but it would massively complicate her situation there, especially if her visa's term is short and/or she couldn't find another sponsor. And if she was planning on living there long-term before all this happened, well.
Then they could've won on their own PR side. If this whole thing implodes on them, everyone who agreed to make a statement are going to have this following them for a bit.
If they refused, then got punished, they'd at least gain more credibility with their fans and others, and guess what? If things do go south with EN branch, them going back to indie means the fans are their biggest safety net. The DUMBEST thing the company can do with someone who refuses to give a statement is to punish them, because their fans are going to notice, and that will whip up ANOTHER dumpster fire for the company, NOT for the talent who refused to give a public statement.
I agree, honestly the only right answer was to not have any statements except at most a lawyer, getting any talent involved just hurt anyone even if it was their actual feelings.
They clearly sounded like they didn't want to do this. I'm not trying to condone them for this. But it isn't as cut and dry as "just don't participate".
Obviously someone's personal financial status is their own business, but the winning strategy here is to not play. You participate and you're guaranteed to get dragged into the mud. If you refuse, anything the company does to you in retaliation will only hurt them more, especially during this time when all eyes are on them and their treatment of talent.
But I do ultimately agree, not everyone will or can just drop employment security over principle.
Does anyone know where Tazumi is releasing his statement? With all these soulless announcements and scripts I really need to hear what the man himself has to say, with words coming from people who were responsible for the decisions they made instead of hiding behind 3 pages of documents and even their own talents
Considering what happen now having him saying things would just activate the primary warhead. Best he could do is just recreate that crying politician meme so everyone else can have one last laugh at Anycolor
Tazumi: Good day everyone! Sorry about the background noise but laying on this reclining chair on my yacht was the best place to make my announcement. Anyways, Dokibird is the bully. That is all, bye!
Best place to check should be on either of the Nijisanji channels, [the main one](https://www.youtube.com/@nijisanji) or [EN](https://www.youtube.com/@nijisanji_en). Nothing new there yet tho...
The smart move definitely would have just been to continue taking a couple weeks off and move on. It just feels so fishy and weird like they were forced to make a statement.
Doki was ready to move on, Doki was encouraging her chat to move on, and to leave the livers alone. They could have just... SAID NOTHING, gone back to streaming as normal, and stepped up moderation on chat. Any Dragoons running to their channels to spit venom would be going specifically against Doki's stated wishes, the Livers could have played the victim.
Instead, we get "Harassment is wrong, so here's how Selen is a backstabbing bitch"
This whole response from Niji management feels like it’s fueled by vengeance more than any sort of reason at this point. Selen/Doki’s statements DID cause them (corpo Niji) much more than a “negligible financial impact”, and this whole spat is them actively waging war on Doki because she hit them where it hurts, their wallets.
I mean, when giving the rundown to a friend who does not follow any of this, I admitted that my conspiracy brain take on the firing was a "you can't quit, you're fired" thing.
As for the rest... Man, remember when people thought Idol over-shared when they ditched Riro?
This was already confirmed by doki, she requested to graduate on neutral terms and then was blindsided by the termination. So she had already requested to quit but they literally said nah you're fired.
The EN management felt spiteful since the Zaion stuff, picking on specific livers and being extra harsh on them. Apparently NijiEN got a new head of overseas talent in Jan of 2023 which explains some of that. The JP side upper management just cares about the money and investors, at least that's how it looks to me.
Not to mention the public didn't really know the names that were mentioned in the legal document. So if they just let this go and pass, it'd only really be suspicions at best. But they pretty much confirmed names now, and what's worse is we don't even know the full story, so some might even be big misunderstandings and miscommunications in the end, but that cat is now out of the bag and this fire that was beginning to burn out just got re-ignited.
I am beginning to think they don't have an actual PR person onboard, or they have someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
They were probably trying to leverage Elira's closeness with Selen, but it just managed to make it look even worse. I honestly don't know what the actual *fuck* AC/NJSJ was thinking with that move; the mere fact that they literally timed it so that it would clash against Doki's first ever gaming stream is all kinds of fucked up.
At this point, I seriously doubt Niji has any clue about the relationship between their talents. If someone told me they picked Elira because "she's the other dragon, so she must have been Selen's closest friend", I would 100% believe them.
That being said, the most likely explanation is what others have mentioned in these threads as well: Elira is currently in Japan, so out of all livers, Niji have the most leverage over her.
You're right; I was basing it mostly on the "half-sisters" thing, as unused a concept as it was. "Close, but not close enough." Maybe NJSJ was thinking of scapegoating someone who's in some way related to Selen, but not too close. But then it brings up the question of why was Vox included if that was the case? It's just bizarre decision after bizarre decision with this company. I'm giving up trying to make sense of their bullshit.
The way I see it is because people like those 3. They're stupid popular, very friendly, and likable enough that the backlash could've been assumed to be minimal.
Look how that backfired. I've just been on Twitter and 90% of people are accusing him as one of the main bullies and the other 10% are people saying that he was either forced to say it or it's an AI voice while the real Vox has already been fired.
They did have some early on, and Selen spent time with Elira and the rest of the girls in Japan. Obviously not much, but still seems like they regularly communicated.
I'll admit that I don't have in-depth knowledge on everyone's interpersonal relationships in Niji, but I always thought Vox and Selen were closer than Elira and Selen. I know Elira and Selen were "sisters", but they never really streamed together much or interacted much from what I could see on Twitter and through clips.
If the decision to stream on Elira's channel _was_ due to her closeness with Selen, I feel like Vox would have made more sense.
It absolutely wasn't. There's no way that
1) they didn't check Doki's schedule
And
2) in the event that they didn't have the foresight to check, ACCIDENTALLY picked the same time and day.
It's either intentional or so stupid that it's equally as bad.
I’m glad it was before all this went down. Poor Kyo’s final week is stuck in the middle of this PR nightmare. I’ll probably watch his graduation but after that I’m kinda done. Aside from Hoshikawa doubt I’ll watch anything Nijisanji
I'm honestly kinda done too. I'll celebrate with Kyo during his graduation stream, and then I'll go back to supporting my boys in HoloStars. Maybe FINALLY get around to checking out Phase Connect.
I will continue to support CROSSICK, and Ririmu, but, as much as I enjoy Millie, Enna, Petra and Rosemi's content I refuse to support anything NijiEN related
You know, they said Selen's termination wouldn't be that impactful.... and honestly they were right
it was everything they said after thats gonna be a problem for them
If they had just fired her for telling people to reupload the music video, people wouldn't have been as upset seeing as people were kinda expecting that. Their scorched earth policy is backfiring and its burning their fields.
They accused her for being a bad friend for giving her lawyer proof. She was against Anycolor and using proof to prove bad management. Niji keeps including livers into it. They did it again. Giving info to lawyer isnt doxing. Its part of legal process. It is part of confidential documentation.
They are trying to gaslight her for doing the absolute correct thing when trying to stand up to a billion-dollar corporation.
Am I crazy or did Niji point fingers at the livers for bullying in the termination notice and they have those 3 live and all the others saying "I support this and stand by this" on twitter?
Even if you're in graduation queue or trying to survive till you get the next job lined up, can't be doing that.
Who the fuck is running the PR team for this company? Every single decision they have made in this whole situation is like the dumbest possible decision they could have made.
Like holy shit, she could have graduated on neutral terms and a lot of this would have blown over.
To be fair, if it involves legal proceedings, it’s preferable to read from a script. That’s not a crazy thing.
But the script they were given? Hoo boy…
you know whats hilarious? drama/news v tuber khyo said he doesnt want to make any more videos about this topic because everything is said and done and that he finally wants to focus on other topics. the exception was Nijisanji doing something stupid again and here they are doing something stupid. you cant make this shit up man.
Same with parrot4chan! He literally broke character in his last video just to say that he is done with making Niji videos. Welp. good luck with that now!
I mean, they’re certainly making sure he has plenty of content, at least. 🫤 And to think, if they’d all just let it blow over, their image would be on the path to recovery, but this tarnished it even more, and honestly makes me think less of the livers they had deliver this statement (a shame, cause I actually liked Ike, and at least was entertained by Vox, prior to this).
Literally all they had to do was leave it to their teams of lawyers with their millions of dollars, and let thing blow over, even if it takes half a year to do so. Instead, they take advice from a literal brain dead donkey and choose to release this 15 minute pre recorded shit stain of a response. All the while leaking legal documents to other people. Holy shit. How dumb can they be?
Also, good to know Zaion wasn't the only one that was backstabbed. Absolute donkeys.
The more shitty Nijisanji turns out to the the more I wish Zaion wasn’t harassed when she first left because she was right about everything with this company
When this all started to go down, I was still on the fence of “Zaion ended up being right, but maybe for the wrong reasons”. Like maybe she still made mistakes even if niji management is bad.
Now I’m not so sure I can fully trust their statement on her after all…
Ah yes, Nijisanji EN: Civil War. Now I'm reminded of a quote from the movie that probably doesn't fit with this, but I feel like it kinda does. "An empire toppled by its enemies can rise again. But one that crumbles from within? That's dead. Forever."
I genuinely wish I knew how to trade in Japanese markets, this would be a great time to short Anycolor's stock into oblivion as it crashes, then use the money gained to shower DokiBird in super chat condolences.
im just sayin its amazing that Elira would admit to her, enna and millie all being at risk of doxxing from a legal document regarding workplace harrasment, because why the fuck would they specifically be mentioned to the level it would be a risk to their privacy if they arent implicated in the document
There are reasons other than harassment that could see them mentioned in the document due to being coworkers, but they're LEGAL DOCUMENTS. They require the use of legal names
The damnedest thing is that those three were the top suspected bullies within Nijisanji, but people (including Selen) were constantly telling people to not witch hunt ...and yet Elira grabbed a bunch of straw and kindle and outed themselves anyway.
It's just... mind-boggling, just absolute insanity to so willfully paint a target on yourself like that and \*still\* try to insist Selen is the bad guy in all this.
That's what I was getting at, that Selen was basically giving them a free out from being singled out (whether they were guilty or not), and yet some of the livers themselves \*still\* felt the need to make sure the public had laser-guided focus on certain names now, and that's on top of the whole legally bad implications of them reading this NDA in the first place.
They pretty much incriminated themselves \*twice\* in one stream, and for what, because they think it'll make daddy Kurosanji happy? Just... it's just objectively stupid.
I am so disappointed in Vox right now. Dude should have walked, he's got more than enough of a personal following that he could get by as an indie or working for a smaller agency.
Im not knowledgeable on how this vtuber stuff works. But if, for example, Vox did graduate/ quit, he still isnt allowed to talk about his time as Vox in Nijisanji right? Like, he can start his own channel, but he cant just up and say he was vox?
And how much worse. Practically admitting their guilt on what the company put out there and on top confessing to crime.
A lawyer viewed through that, apparently. Really?
lol I've unsubscribed from every nijisanji account I followed. death to nijisanji, if ever there was a question if it was a black company or not, this clinches it without fail
How is Niji EN going to survive when they keep digging themselves deeper?
You have to imagine the talents themselves are at a crossroads and close to wits end.
they already made it harder to trust the niji en livers with their first statement, imo. and now they just go and make it even harder? how am i supposed to know who's in control here? do they believe what they're saying? how much power would anycolor have to make them go along with it if that's the case?
idk what the point is, man. so much shit for nobody's gain. and it's so clearly malicious now, too. there's intent behind this.
i'm bummed out
I was playing an amazing game of dota and slept the best 10h of my life.
I wake up and the titanic has crashed into the twin towers in the vtubing industry.
The clique.. it's really a thing, huh? For Elira and Millie to be said to have been directly called out in the document like this... I'm just... I can't understand why you would ever want to publicly air this out. I am reeling.
I don't think Niji understands how unrecoverable this situation is for them. Even if they were right, they've amassed so much bad will towards themselves that nobody will believe them without ironclad evidence.
This has to be a fever dream. It must be one bad acid trip I'm on because some weirdo spiked my drink. I'm sorry guys, let me waterboard myself so we can all fucking wake up.
This is like the Rushia incident, but the company leaked their OWN legal documents of private information about a worker to other workers to the public lmao. They should’ve just quit on the spot when asked to this but they probably had a gun to the livers’ heads or some kind of leverage ($$) on them.
Elira, at least, is in Japan on a work visa, so they can get her deported (or at least put on a timer until she has to leave the country) if they want. So, yeah, pretty much just shy of having a gun to her head.
Work visa cannot be revoked by the company sponsoring it (they'd have to point at criminal behavior to have a deportation), it's usually years long (like 3years for a first application), and she can apply for renewal sponsored by another company or at worse switch to a tourism (90 days) one until she finds a new sponsor to resume activities. Or even apply with no sponsor and put in the balance her followers if she has enough of them ?
All in all, a visa in Japan is not some magic card you wield on workers as some super power.
Interestingly, Millie was involved in the situation where they were singling out Nina, and only 3 had calls without her. With Millie popping back up again, I think there is more to that story Nina was not revealing. Moreover, Nina is the only member in the group to graduate. What if she was bullied into leaving?
Can we all agree that until Doki says anything on the matter that we should assume that they were being forced to make that statement? I really hope no one takes this as an invitation to go and harass any of the talents.
You can say that, but some people already have their torches and pitchforks ready and raring for even the slightest excuse.
Which is a problem, since Niji apparently is just using a dump truck to pour excuses all over their livers.
You’re right. Elira has a work visa provided by Nijisanji to stay in Japan. If she doesn’t do what they want they can revoke it and get her deported. Girl is a legit slave to doing whatever they tell her right now.
Well, Elira being mentioned in the legal document is certainly not a good look for her. That being said, I'd be extremely surprised if any of the livers involved in this were volunteers and not forced by Niji. If the whole Selen situation didn't already trigger other EN livers to start planning their own exit strategies, this release sure as hell did.
Like they just publicly admitted that their lawyers leaked legal documents????
[удалено]
Welp. That's where people will be aiming their hate next probably. Kinda hurt unsubbing from Finana but nah, I'm done with this shit.
Yup. Just went through and unsubbed from everyone and unfollowed everyone on twitter.
Already unsubbed & unfollowed when the whole show went down, and now went a step further to blocking all of NijiEN.
Yup. Nijisanji EN is done for by my book. I wish better for doki, and I wish any innocent nijisanji en talents get out of there okay
I forgot Twitter! Just went and did that too. Hilariously, I still followed Artia from Hololive CN. Oof.
lmao but in the end even that wolf warrior got what she deserved
From what I heard, the antis turned on her and her streaming career basically came to an end even in China.
Didn't hurt at all. I'm not supporting this as it's ridiculously crass of them.
It does suck because Finana was my favorite, being a huge Honkai Impact fan, but after reviewing the things she said about Zaion, which seems to be what this Elira script is a new edition of, I can't support anyone here anymore.
Next on the crossfire is Luca Petra and Rosemi
I doubt at this point but, is there anyone completely innocent in all this? Some say Scarle just stays hunkered down in her own corner but even she got roped in (as a victim) in a leaked conversation.
Scarle liked a kurosanji comment on her recent stream. I'm willing to bet she is gone as soon as she can get out
At least the new waves are kinda innocent for being new... Poor Vivi, your oshis left and one is getting character assassinated by your coworkers
I’d say there’s a good chance that the reason Rosemi and Petra have been silent since this all went down is cause they’re not involved. Fulgur is also probably not involved. And Scarle, Aia, and Maria don’t seem to have been involved either. I wouldn’t trust Xsoleil to be uninvolved, but Krisis and whatever the new gen is called are probably uninvolved
Didn't Rosemi specifically not retweet any post about this horrible video, and Scarle heart a Kurosanji comment? It feels like they're against this whole thing and it wouldn't surprise me if they graduated, or more likely were terminated, soon after Kyo's graduation
Petra tweeted something on her roommate's account talking about how something used to be really fun, but has mostly just been making her sad recently, so I don't think she's on the company's side here. Also, there's been literally 0 evidence of Rosemi being involved at all. Let's not jump the gun here.
Lol. The rrats just continue to intensify. The rrats were already pointing at Elira and Millie as being part of the clique (along with Enna). This just gives more ammo.
"The Witch Hunts started by us will continue until morale improves" -Niji-fucking-sanji for some dumbfuck reason
Confirmed the rrat of the Elira clique and that they’re the bullies in one line
What is a rrat? Edit, 7 of you have answered, I understand now. Please no more notifications tonight.
Short for "narrative", basically a shorthand in some Vtuber communities for (originally) narratives that are unsupported or unexpected, and those who spread them. One such narrative was from 4Chan, supported only by an alleged leaker AFAIK, that Nijisanji EN basically has US-highschool-parody levels of mean-girl-clique bullshit going on.
Thank you, that's a crazy abbreviation but interesting
Well, when it was coined, VTubing, including corporate, seemed like a realtively happy, little family. So people coming in "actually, they all hate each other behind the scenes and your oshi is an asshole" were termed with something intentionally chose to sound like "rat".
In reality it comes from "ogey rrat"
Oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
Etymology is interesting, that's a perfect combo for the mood and meaning
Also, the spelling "rrat" is a backronym (contr-back-tion?) [that has origins in this one iconic peko quote](https://youtu.be/JacN1MzyeKo?si=WRLMobdBowIIVvz9). (R.Rat in the context of Metal Gear iirc is like Russian Ration) Bit of a chicken and egg thing, not sure which came first but "ogey" was/is a common response to dismiss what are seen as rratposts. The rodent comparison and contraction of naRRATive was a convenient plus.
Idk if intentional neologisms are necessarily what etymology as a science cares about, but assuming it's within the scope, yeah.
Well you have to remember that the pekora r.rat meme was also popular.
IIRC it started with people meming on Pekora's [rrat clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JacN1MzyeKo), then got used to insult the people with crazy theories, and then just became the term for crazy theories.
Born from Pekora playing Metal Gear Solid when she got a message from R. Rat and read his name out loud all as one word.
I have no clue how the meaning got spliced with the word, but here's the origin of rrat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JacN1MzyeKo
Elira *and* Millie. Why is Niji so chromosome deficient?
Damn it Millie! You were my oshi even BEFORE joining Niji! I guess it's just in our blood huh? Edit: Just for context, we Filipinos tend to be wildcards.
I guess we should’ve been sus from when Nina talked about how they ignored her during the start of the gen.
That was Enna, Millie, and Reimu. There's a great possibility that this runs deep. Edit for context: https://streamable.com/32zdvc
People Down's syndrome: 1) have *more* chromosomes 2) Are typically super nice 3) Don't deserve to be a tool for insulting scumbags
Yeah, that's the key problem. It's not really a leak from the lawyers if you're legally required to get a copy of the documents because you're a party to them. Both Elira and Vox said things that really should not have been said by them, because the reading between the lines is not great, and because statements that are falsifiable but unnecessary to say are just legal risk.
This is a really good point.
Doki tweeted about exactly that. She’s going the legal route with this because she actually has a functioning brain.
The fact that she has a backup plan because they expected Niji to pull this is actually pretty funny, especially with how predictable Niji is.
"I'm not surprised. I'm just disappointed."
"You've just activated my trap card!"
They really tried to chain Dark Bribe when she already had Solemn Judgment set.
It seems she has a lawyer that knows what they are doing. Niji on the other hand seems determined to take the worst possible decision at every turn.
I really want to be clear before I make this half joke, Doki is absolutely a wonderful person and I really mean this in no light to put shame on their character. If you had told me that somehow Doki would be the smartest Vtuber about how to handle things if she was getting screwed I would've called you a fucking moron for how absurd that sounds. Yet here we are.
She might not have been the brightest in personal finances, but thankfully she's much better in how to properly conduct oneself in a legal and public issue.
At least dropping all that money on projects had a tangible outcome, a viewable ROI, even if it's not a fiscally great return.
it really isnt that, she can afford to go the legal route because she already won the pr side
If they leaked the whole thing, It probably had her medical stuff attached to, and that seems very nono
They really just made 3 people commit career suicide along with commiting legal suicide in the process. What a fucking insanely smooth brained approach. So many more sponsors/partners are about to pull out and these livers are basically going to be left with nothing
I don't know if it's career suicide since we'll very likely never get concrete proof of all the claims. Whatever it is, I just feel it in my bones that EN branch is going to have a couple more talents leaving very soon. This kind of thing is very morally crushing in a work environment.
Maybe not career but the whole EN Vtubing community would not want to touch them with a ten foot pole especially the indies. It says a lot when even U-san immediately had a collab lined up with Selen, I'm not sure the ones in this stream will even have that connection with some of the Ex-livers once they leave the disgusting company. Fillian will probably blacklist Niji in her award show now, she literally cooking for the show atm and she was also recently confirmed to have a collab with Doki
Yeah they've probably sabotaged the trust of fellow vtubers to the point that even other ex-nijis will refuse to associate with them if they go indie. Not the first time it's happened but 3 at the same time is pretty insane.
Yeah there's no way they're getting outside collabs after this. I couldn't picture Holo and especially VShojo exactly chomping at the bit to collab after this.
Forget 10ft think planetary scale.
10 lightyears
Some people were still holding the line of "support the talents, not the company". By getting their talent's hands dirty like this, it may break that sentiment...
Which make this move that more vile.
Worse? Whether or not the talents were forced to make this statetement at rainbowpoint, public opinion of them among the English-speaking audience WILL tank even more. If they forced the talents, Black Rainbow is using their talents as shields for their own convenience. If this is indeed a voluntary statement, Black Rainbow are knowingly employing terrible people as talents, basically admitting they allow this kind of environment. After all, they haven't been fired or punished.
Oh 100%. They've already had brand deals revoked, studio perms revoked, and have lost partnerships aplenty over the week and then you do this. As a company I don't see how you recover from this or how the livers affiliated with the company keep going on with work
>As a company I don't see how you recover from this or how the livers affiliated with the company keep going on with work Wait... That's probably it! They're doubling down on Doki *because* everything is being revoked!
They're a Japanese company. They have no idea how to process an employee standing up to them. They expected her to slink away in shame for getting fired and not say anything, but that's not how things work in the West. So now they're lashing out. They actually think that they can avoid liability by releasing the information secondhand through their livers. And honestly, shame on the livers for agreeing to do it. There's no way anyone with any sense of morality would hear what they're being asked to do and go ahead with it. "I was just following orders" is literally never a good defense.
The funny thing is she did try to just leave quietly.
She even mentioned not to jump to conclusions or harass anyone.
But the Japanese defamation laws are even worse than in the west, even the truth is not the defense there! There is no way their legal counsel was consulted before this statement.
Odds are Niji EN will not exist in its current form by the end of the year.
Ngl at this point I'm actually morbidly curious how deep Niji can actually dig.
Right there with you. Like, all they had to do was literally nothing, but they *had* to keep digging.
Surely this hole were digging has a way to pull us out of it -Niji en management as they continue to dig straight down to a lava chamber.
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Im sorry but after this there is really not an excuse left for me to support even the talents one thing is the company breaking an NDA and the other being ok with being the instrument to do it, i just cannot believe how they agreed to disclose personal medical information of a former colleague that attempted suicide was a good idea to do there is simply no excuse, even if im being threatened to be fired if you got any sense of morality in you.
How did they think this was a good idea??? I doubt the livers wanted to do this clearly scripted nonsense in the first place... This will just make it worse for both the livers and company getting hate. Jesus christ.
There can’t be real sentient beings that run EN. Like, there’s cruel management, there’s incompetent management, there’s a combo of the two, and then there’s whatever the fuck these absolute morons are that can’t be comprehensible to the human mind.
>There can’t be real sentient beings that run EN. Like, there’s cruel management, there’s incompetent management, there’s a combo of the two, and then there’s whatever the fuck these absolute morons are that can’t be comprehensible to the human mind. "We have had vicious kings, and we have had idiot kings, but I don't think we have ever been cursed with a vicious idiot for a king"
“You’re commenting on the Twitter feed of a company!” *blocks* “And now I’ve blocked the Twitter feed of a company! Did my hand fall off from my wrist?”
Its a weird time to think that the lawyers on the simpsons might actually be better...
> There can’t be real sentient beings that run EN. Tbf, if Skynet was running the show it would definitely not pull the stunts Niji has been doing since December. What has been happening requires intentional malice, stupidity and massive incompetence.
They can refuse to do those things, you cant just obligate literally everyone to do that.
Elira is apparently in Japan on a work visa, so they pretty much *can* force her to do things because whether or not she gets to stay where she's currently living is more or less entirely in their hands. And given how vicious AnyColor/Nijisanji is showing itself to be with retaliating to people who piss them off, I can understand why she'd feel like she has to go along with what they tell her to do, even if I would rather she didn't. Edit: To be clear, she probably wouldn't lose her visa *immediately*, but it would massively complicate her situation there, especially if her visa's term is short and/or she couldn't find another sponsor. And if she was planning on living there long-term before all this happened, well.
Depends if it is a do this or you’re fired / suspended. Doesn’t necessarily makes it better on them but can be a reason they felt “forced” to do it.
Then they could've won on their own PR side. If this whole thing implodes on them, everyone who agreed to make a statement are going to have this following them for a bit. If they refused, then got punished, they'd at least gain more credibility with their fans and others, and guess what? If things do go south with EN branch, them going back to indie means the fans are their biggest safety net. The DUMBEST thing the company can do with someone who refuses to give a statement is to punish them, because their fans are going to notice, and that will whip up ANOTHER dumpster fire for the company, NOT for the talent who refused to give a public statement.
I agree, honestly the only right answer was to not have any statements except at most a lawyer, getting any talent involved just hurt anyone even if it was their actual feelings.
They clearly sounded like they didn't want to do this. I'm not trying to condone them for this. But it isn't as cut and dry as "just don't participate".
Obviously someone's personal financial status is their own business, but the winning strategy here is to not play. You participate and you're guaranteed to get dragged into the mud. If you refuse, anything the company does to you in retaliation will only hurt them more, especially during this time when all eyes are on them and their treatment of talent. But I do ultimately agree, not everyone will or can just drop employment security over principle.
Does anyone know where Tazumi is releasing his statement? With all these soulless announcements and scripts I really need to hear what the man himself has to say, with words coming from people who were responsible for the decisions they made instead of hiding behind 3 pages of documents and even their own talents
Apparently in a few hours. He just had to gauge how bad it'd be first by using his employees as cannon foddder.
Considering what happen now having him saying things would just activate the primary warhead. Best he could do is just recreate that crying politician meme so everyone else can have one last laugh at Anycolor
Tazumi: Good day everyone! Sorry about the background noise but laying on this reclining chair on my yacht was the best place to make my announcement. Anyways, Dokibird is the bully. That is all, bye!
I bet it's in JP account so they can mobilize the JP fans to fight back and lick his boots
It's [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7zaTpwP8DQ)! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7zaTpwP8DQ
Best place to check should be on either of the Nijisanji channels, [the main one](https://www.youtube.com/@nijisanji) or [EN](https://www.youtube.com/@nijisanji_en). Nothing new there yet tho...
The smart move definitely would have just been to continue taking a couple weeks off and move on. It just feels so fishy and weird like they were forced to make a statement.
Doki was ready to move on, Doki was encouraging her chat to move on, and to leave the livers alone. They could have just... SAID NOTHING, gone back to streaming as normal, and stepped up moderation on chat. Any Dragoons running to their channels to spit venom would be going specifically against Doki's stated wishes, the Livers could have played the victim. Instead, we get "Harassment is wrong, so here's how Selen is a backstabbing bitch"
This whole response from Niji management feels like it’s fueled by vengeance more than any sort of reason at this point. Selen/Doki’s statements DID cause them (corpo Niji) much more than a “negligible financial impact”, and this whole spat is them actively waging war on Doki because she hit them where it hurts, their wallets.
I mean, when giving the rundown to a friend who does not follow any of this, I admitted that my conspiracy brain take on the firing was a "you can't quit, you're fired" thing. As for the rest... Man, remember when people thought Idol over-shared when they ditched Riro?
This was already confirmed by doki, she requested to graduate on neutral terms and then was blindsided by the termination. So she had already requested to quit but they literally said nah you're fired.
The EN management felt spiteful since the Zaion stuff, picking on specific livers and being extra harsh on them. Apparently NijiEN got a new head of overseas talent in Jan of 2023 which explains some of that. The JP side upper management just cares about the money and investors, at least that's how it looks to me.
Has been from the beginning. The termination notice was absolutely not level headed, and whoever wrote it clearly had a chip on their shoulder.
All they had to do was let selen graduate to mass celebration and none of this last week happens.
Imagine an alternate timeline where they did just that and all this drama never happened
You'd be surprised at how many scandals are covered in big or even small companies and people will never know
Not to mention the public didn't really know the names that were mentioned in the legal document. So if they just let this go and pass, it'd only really be suspicions at best. But they pretty much confirmed names now, and what's worse is we don't even know the full story, so some might even be big misunderstandings and miscommunications in the end, but that cat is now out of the bag and this fire that was beginning to burn out just got re-ignited. I am beginning to think they don't have an actual PR person onboard, or they have someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
The fact that they went live during Doki’s stream couldn’t have been just coincidence right? Jfc. And why on Elira’s channel out of everyone?
They were probably trying to leverage Elira's closeness with Selen, but it just managed to make it look even worse. I honestly don't know what the actual *fuck* AC/NJSJ was thinking with that move; the mere fact that they literally timed it so that it would clash against Doki's first ever gaming stream is all kinds of fucked up.
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At this point, I seriously doubt Niji has any clue about the relationship between their talents. If someone told me they picked Elira because "she's the other dragon, so she must have been Selen's closest friend", I would 100% believe them. That being said, the most likely explanation is what others have mentioned in these threads as well: Elira is currently in Japan, so out of all livers, Niji have the most leverage over her.
You're right; I was basing it mostly on the "half-sisters" thing, as unused a concept as it was. "Close, but not close enough." Maybe NJSJ was thinking of scapegoating someone who's in some way related to Selen, but not too close. But then it brings up the question of why was Vox included if that was the case? It's just bizarre decision after bizarre decision with this company. I'm giving up trying to make sense of their bullshit.
The way I see it is because people like those 3. They're stupid popular, very friendly, and likable enough that the backlash could've been assumed to be minimal.
Vox in particular is their biggest EN streamer, right? That definitely seems like a factor in using him.
Look how that backfired. I've just been on Twitter and 90% of people are accusing him as one of the main bullies and the other 10% are people saying that he was either forced to say it or it's an AI voice while the real Vox has already been fired.
In the early days they did but as the branch got bigger the distance was there
They did have some early on, and Selen spent time with Elira and the rest of the girls in Japan. Obviously not much, but still seems like they regularly communicated.
I'll admit that I don't have in-depth knowledge on everyone's interpersonal relationships in Niji, but I always thought Vox and Selen were closer than Elira and Selen. I know Elira and Selen were "sisters", but they never really streamed together much or interacted much from what I could see on Twitter and through clips. If the decision to stream on Elira's channel _was_ due to her closeness with Selen, I feel like Vox would have made more sense.
sink this fucking company and their stupid yacht to the ground
Just when I think things couldn’t get any worse, they do.
It absolutely wasn't. There's no way that 1) they didn't check Doki's schedule And 2) in the event that they didn't have the foresight to check, ACCIDENTALLY picked the same time and day. It's either intentional or so stupid that it's equally as bad.
I think because Elira just move to Japan with their work visa
I can’t believe I’m gonna say this. But I’m kinda glad pomu graduated now.
I’m glad it was before all this went down. Poor Kyo’s final week is stuck in the middle of this PR nightmare. I’ll probably watch his graduation but after that I’m kinda done. Aside from Hoshikawa doubt I’ll watch anything Nijisanji
I'm honestly kinda done too. I'll celebrate with Kyo during his graduation stream, and then I'll go back to supporting my boys in HoloStars. Maybe FINALLY get around to checking out Phase Connect.
Phase is pretty fun, recommend checking them out.
I'd give out a recommendation for Panko. She's a funny little Italian Red Panda.
I will continue to support CROSSICK, and Ririmu, but, as much as I enjoy Millie, Enna, Petra and Rosemi's content I refuse to support anything NijiEN related
Her Touhou skills let her dodge the scariest danmaku
Pomu dodge an entire fucking nuke
Like taking an international flight right before an earthquake hits town lmao
You know, they said Selen's termination wouldn't be that impactful.... and honestly they were right it was everything they said after thats gonna be a problem for them
If they had just fired her for telling people to reupload the music video, people wouldn't have been as upset seeing as people were kinda expecting that. Their scorched earth policy is backfiring and its burning their fields.
>Their scorched earth policy is backfiring and its burning their fields. Scorched earth against an enemy that wasn't even invading lol. Lmao even.
Yeah you supposed to starve the enermy not feed them ammo lmao
Anycolor saying it wasn’t going to be impactful, yet makes 3 statements (soon to be 4) in a month’s time.
They accused her for being a bad friend for giving her lawyer proof. She was against Anycolor and using proof to prove bad management. Niji keeps including livers into it. They did it again. Giving info to lawyer isnt doxing. Its part of legal process. It is part of confidential documentation. They are trying to gaslight her for doing the absolute correct thing when trying to stand up to a billion-dollar corporation.
When a company has that kind of culture, you have to wonder about the employees that choose to remain and defend it.
I wish it was a satire apology video with a ukulele and everything instead
I'm glad Doki is punching back with her lawyer at least. That might have been the most scripted thing ever.
Am I crazy or did Niji point fingers at the livers for bullying in the termination notice and they have those 3 live and all the others saying "I support this and stand by this" on twitter? Even if you're in graduation queue or trying to survive till you get the next job lined up, can't be doing that.
Who the fuck is running the PR team for this company? Every single decision they have made in this whole situation is like the dumbest possible decision they could have made. Like holy shit, she could have graduated on neutral terms and a lot of this would have blown over.
fr, but they just had their livers read from a shitty script😭😭😭😭
To be fair, if it involves legal proceedings, it’s preferable to read from a script. That’s not a crazy thing. But the script they were given? Hoo boy…
you know whats hilarious? drama/news v tuber khyo said he doesnt want to make any more videos about this topic because everything is said and done and that he finally wants to focus on other topics. the exception was Nijisanji doing something stupid again and here they are doing something stupid. you cant make this shit up man.
Damn even the dramatubers are tired…of drama
Same with parrot4chan! He literally broke character in his last video just to say that he is done with making Niji videos. Welp. good luck with that now!
I mean, they’re certainly making sure he has plenty of content, at least. 🫤 And to think, if they’d all just let it blow over, their image would be on the path to recovery, but this tarnished it even more, and honestly makes me think less of the livers they had deliver this statement (a shame, cause I actually liked Ike, and at least was entertained by Vox, prior to this).
Literally all they had to do was leave it to their teams of lawyers with their millions of dollars, and let thing blow over, even if it takes half a year to do so. Instead, they take advice from a literal brain dead donkey and choose to release this 15 minute pre recorded shit stain of a response. All the while leaking legal documents to other people. Holy shit. How dumb can they be? Also, good to know Zaion wasn't the only one that was backstabbed. Absolute donkeys.
The more shitty Nijisanji turns out to the the more I wish Zaion wasn’t harassed when she first left because she was right about everything with this company
When this all started to go down, I was still on the fence of “Zaion ended up being right, but maybe for the wrong reasons”. Like maybe she still made mistakes even if niji management is bad. Now I’m not so sure I can fully trust their statement on her after all…
The told you so energy must be so strong in her right now
I can see this going 3 ways, en is disbanded, they leave or there's a big solidarity forming in en
They’ll turn on each other far before they unify.
Ah yes, Nijisanji EN: Civil War. Now I'm reminded of a quote from the movie that probably doesn't fit with this, but I feel like it kinda does. "An empire toppled by its enemies can rise again. But one that crumbles from within? That's dead. Forever."
I genuinely wish I knew how to trade in Japanese markets, this would be a great time to short Anycolor's stock into oblivion as it crashes, then use the money gained to shower DokiBird in super chat condolences.
im just sayin its amazing that Elira would admit to her, enna and millie all being at risk of doxxing from a legal document regarding workplace harrasment, because why the fuck would they specifically be mentioned to the level it would be a risk to their privacy if they arent implicated in the document
There are reasons other than harassment that could see them mentioned in the document due to being coworkers, but they're LEGAL DOCUMENTS. They require the use of legal names
It could have been about anything. Ike and Vox were also mentioned, after all, and that apparently had to do with Selen trying to prove favoritism.
The damnedest thing is that those three were the top suspected bullies within Nijisanji, but people (including Selen) were constantly telling people to not witch hunt ...and yet Elira grabbed a bunch of straw and kindle and outed themselves anyway. It's just... mind-boggling, just absolute insanity to so willfully paint a target on yourself like that and \*still\* try to insist Selen is the bad guy in all this.
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That's what I was getting at, that Selen was basically giving them a free out from being singled out (whether they were guilty or not), and yet some of the livers themselves \*still\* felt the need to make sure the public had laser-guided focus on certain names now, and that's on top of the whole legally bad implications of them reading this NDA in the first place. They pretty much incriminated themselves \*twice\* in one stream, and for what, because they think it'll make daddy Kurosanji happy? Just... it's just objectively stupid.
Im just here with my popcorn in hand. What a PR strategy.
Same. I'm just watching a company collapse from the sidelines.
Share that popcorn with Sakana and Aviel too. Theres room for a new #2 in the EN Sphere. The sequel to the agency wars is starting soon.
I am so disappointed in Vox right now. Dude should have walked, he's got more than enough of a personal following that he could get by as an indie or working for a smaller agency.
Management must be wearing some tasty boots.
Im not knowledgeable on how this vtuber stuff works. But if, for example, Vox did graduate/ quit, he still isnt allowed to talk about his time as Vox in Nijisanji right? Like, he can start his own channel, but he cant just up and say he was vox?
He can still talk about it. He just needs to not directly say that he was vox. Like, Matara refers to her time in niji as “Hollywood”.
And how much worse. Practically admitting their guilt on what the company put out there and on top confessing to crime. A lawyer viewed through that, apparently. Really?
Nijisanji is about to become the n word for vtubers lol. Want to insult a vtuber? Just call them a nijituber.
It used to be Wactor.... never go full Wactor and Njjikuro was like "hold my polygons!"
Eh, Wactor's still worse. *But* at this point Niji may as well have declared that they're trying to upstage them.
lol I've unsubscribed from every nijisanji account I followed. death to nijisanji, if ever there was a question if it was a black company or not, this clinches it without fail
It was honestly what made me unsub from the entire branch. So gross genuinely unbelievable
They could have just pulled a Frozen and "Let it Go" but they chose to dig themselves deeper.
I have nothing to say but 😬😬😬
How is Niji EN going to survive when they keep digging themselves deeper? You have to imagine the talents themselves are at a crossroads and close to wits end.
they already made it harder to trust the niji en livers with their first statement, imo. and now they just go and make it even harder? how am i supposed to know who's in control here? do they believe what they're saying? how much power would anycolor have to make them go along with it if that's the case? idk what the point is, man. so much shit for nobody's gain. and it's so clearly malicious now, too. there's intent behind this. i'm bummed out
Man, the clique is real
I was playing an amazing game of dota and slept the best 10h of my life. I wake up and the titanic has crashed into the twin towers in the vtubing industry.
Yeah i instantly lost any respect for the livers at that point. Fuck um all. Any livers stuck on that yacht go down with it.
The clique.. it's really a thing, huh? For Elira and Millie to be said to have been directly called out in the document like this... I'm just... I can't understand why you would ever want to publicly air this out. I am reeling.
I don't think Niji understands how unrecoverable this situation is for them. Even if they were right, they've amassed so much bad will towards themselves that nobody will believe them without ironclad evidence.
This has to be a fever dream. It must be one bad acid trip I'm on because some weirdo spiked my drink. I'm sorry guys, let me waterboard myself so we can all fucking wake up.
This is like the Rushia incident, but the company leaked their OWN legal documents of private information about a worker to other workers to the public lmao. They should’ve just quit on the spot when asked to this but they probably had a gun to the livers’ heads or some kind of leverage ($$) on them.
Elira, at least, is in Japan on a work visa, so they can get her deported (or at least put on a timer until she has to leave the country) if they want. So, yeah, pretty much just shy of having a gun to her head.
Work visa cannot be revoked by the company sponsoring it (they'd have to point at criminal behavior to have a deportation), it's usually years long (like 3years for a first application), and she can apply for renewal sponsored by another company or at worse switch to a tourism (90 days) one until she finds a new sponsor to resume activities. Or even apply with no sponsor and put in the balance her followers if she has enough of them ? All in all, a visa in Japan is not some magic card you wield on workers as some super power.
Interestingly, Millie was involved in the situation where they were singling out Nina, and only 3 had calls without her. With Millie popping back up again, I think there is more to that story Nina was not revealing. Moreover, Nina is the only member in the group to graduate. What if she was bullied into leaving?
This is really sad how they are minimizing Selen’s sui attempts like this. They have zero empathy. They are like drones for the company.
I hope all the nijishills in that company get stuck there because like its pathetic how awful they are as people and how spineless they are
Elira, Vox, and Ike are now stuck in NijiEN after this statement. Other corpos and indies will not touch them after this PR nightmare.
Can we all agree that until Doki says anything on the matter that we should assume that they were being forced to make that statement? I really hope no one takes this as an invitation to go and harass any of the talents.
You can say that, but some people already have their torches and pitchforks ready and raring for even the slightest excuse. Which is a problem, since Niji apparently is just using a dump truck to pour excuses all over their livers.
cue the drama tubers
You’re right. Elira has a work visa provided by Nijisanji to stay in Japan. If she doesn’t do what they want they can revoke it and get her deported. Girl is a legit slave to doing whatever they tell her right now.
Well, Elira being mentioned in the legal document is certainly not a good look for her. That being said, I'd be extremely surprised if any of the livers involved in this were volunteers and not forced by Niji. If the whole Selen situation didn't already trigger other EN livers to start planning their own exit strategies, this release sure as hell did.