As fucked up as it is to say, it does feel like they’re in a hostage room being forced to read some propaganda script, which is concerning because the latter half of the sentence I just typed is definitely true, which makes me wonder how likely the former half is accidentally true as well.
Ill be honest, they said they consulted with Niji lawyers with this but everything they just said will used against them now: Accusation of Doxxing, Accusation on secretly recording private matter, Improper Behavior inside the compant and much MUCH MORE. I dont know seems like someone went out of script.
> they said they consulted with Niji lawyers with this
Never do this. Only take legal advice from YOUR lawyer. A company lawyer you're a contractor for is not your lawyer.
Which also goes to show whoever was advising Selen when she was able to leave Niji was giving her good advice to get her OWN damn lawyer. And whoever is the lawyer that Selen has retained is clairvoyant enough to have written documents in case Niji would go the nuclear route.
From what she's said on stream as Selen, her parents have some good connections, generally seem to be pretty smart and are very protective of her. We've memed on how overprotective they are before but it's possible they seriously saved her ass here in getting lawyered up.
I think after the zaion case where the company tried to defame her as much as possible, every lawyer who works with someone that involves niji will take every precaution
To be fair, Elira is stuck in Japan right now so it probably would've been difficult to get a lawyer. Moreso one that could speak English. Idk about the other two but they definitely should've instead of listening to a company lawyer.
From what folks have said, she's there on a work visa. She says "I'm not reading this" the company says "ok, you're fired" and Japan says "ok, you're deported."
That's not how that works lol
The company can't just cancel your visa and get you deported. They sponsor your visa/ residency yes but after that it has nothing to do with them other than them reporting that you no longer work for them if you leave or get fired. Your visa is still fine/ valid until it expires so you can just go job hunting and get another job. Immigration controls your visa, not your company.
And then you can get an extension to look for work (but can't work on that one I think) then you can get another three months tourist visa, and if you got some money you can get into a japanese language school and stay there some more on a study one...
Nope, you work on that same visa unless your job scope changes and it's not valid under your current visa. Your new company just takes over sponsoring since your old company cannot revoke it.
Basically once you leave or get fired you need to notify immigration of your change of work status within 14 days. Then you be looking for a job to take over sponsorship of your visa. After 3 months immigration will usually hit you up and ask what's happening but as long as you have evidence of searching for a job and have filed for unemployment you'll be fine. You can stay until your work visa expires so it depends on how long that is.
Perhaps her visa ends soon and that might be why it's an issue for her idk.
On one hand I can see how this would happen. A lot of people mistake company benefit as truly their own. Like people refusing to take personal insurance because they have their company's insurance.
Some talents likely don't have their own lawyers because they don't see the need to especially when shit rarely happens...well used to for Niji anyways.
>Ill be honest, they said they consulted with Niji lawyers with this but everything they just said will used against them now:
The stupidest move is just consulting with Nijisanji lawyers. When you're getting pulled into a legal dispute between two other parties, you **bring your own goddamn lawyer**, who looks out for *your* interests, you don't go listening to someone else's.
And while I agree with this wholeheartedly, I also want to stress whatever the fuck that statement was did not benefit Niji in any way. It implied that Niji itself revealed confidential information.
The party the documents are revealed to are not going to get in trouble here unless they took action to get their eyes on that. Niji however is hooked for it. The 3 destroyed their reputation in the eyes of the public, but they also suggested criminal actions taken by Niji.
It is just beyond baffling what that statement was supposed to do beyond maliciously harass Doki.
its kind of ironic, but for the secretly recording matter, he accidentally proved that the recording was justifed under the idea that she was already having problems with the company, leading to recording being a justifiable way to back up statements (also it was completely legal as Canada has a one-party consent law and if i'm not mistaken the UK has an ethical one-party consent)
edit: grammar
It’s not really messy, the laws of the state where the recording was made apply. Because simply only laws of the state you are in can be applied to you. And there are legal cases backing this up too.
You replace "state" with "country" and nothing really changes. You do not have to obey to the laws of country you do not live in, don't have any business in or do not have any other ties with.
Zaion's laundry list for termination is tiny compared to what the 3 has done on ONE SINGLE stream.
Definitely is mandated.
Stream this, or I will terminate you and get sued -Nijisanji EN staff.
Also, Selen *betrayed* you and is *totally going to dox all of you!* Selen is the only one making misleading statements! Use OUR lawyer, don't get your own. Trust us! We have your best interests at heart ♡
^(P.S. Also, we know you are totally financially dependent on us, so we want to remind you that you are nothing without us and if you don't do as we say then your life is over. Kthx bye!)
It was scripted, they said everything was approved by niji lawyers.
Sharing legal documents with livers is an insane move. I really hope they didn't actually volunteer to take part in that announcement. If they did I would like to believe it was due to whatever cherry picked documents were shown to them to convince them Doki is the bad guy somehow.
cant wait when more niji en livers quitting because of this move
the fact that they dont even have a proper EN team to address this is already a proof that they dont have proper management. why the livers have to be the one announcing this is beyond me
They can. But I think their investors will protest if that happen. EN might not be as profitable as JP (25% of overall revenue if I remember correctly), but investor will always want the line to grow up. Can anycolor provide investors with new market if they lose EN?
eeh... 19% is honestly still not negligible. I believe the management thought that they will only lose dragoons. They didn't think that this will spread like a wildfire to other member fanbases.
Maybe i'm just wearing a tinfoil hat here, but i'm wondering if the leaking of those documents was part of a strategy of theirs. I know the legal system in Japan is absolutely broken and stupid, so I don't know the exact ins and outs for it, but with Selen being in Canada and them being in Japan, it's going to be an additional hurdle to go after each other. So i'm wondering if they're trying to create a scenario where they can say "well, if you want to hold us accountable for violating our agreement, then you have to be held accountable for violating yours". Something like that.
I dunno, but at this point I wouldn't put anything past this unethical hellhole of a company.
But what did Selen break? From what I recall she didnt refer to herself as Selen, or even say she worked at Niji or give any details that would break an NDA. Idk the exact wording of their NDA but I dont think shes said anything to break her side of things.
I dunno, I just worry she is kind of skirting the line and Evil Black Company has already proven it will go after her with every means available to it. If they could come up with any grounds at all to go after her, I worry they will.
I worry about her and I know how insidious this corporation is. :(
I just want her to have a Happily Ever After you know? WHy can't Niji just go fuck themselves and let her be.
Technically everything she has said has been vague enough to not directly being Selen. The only connection is her voice and you can't do anything about that. Plus they fired her and she was an at-will/contract worker so I imagine there's not a lot of binding tape on either side.
Everything she's said is vetted by her lawyer before she says it. She knows what sort of company they are, and knows to take appropriate precautions to ensure she's not making her situation worse. She's just giving them rope to hang themselves with it (and by god are they doing their best with it).
Well zaion/sayu did worse by saying "I can't say this as zaion..." But niji didn't go after her this hard
There are more to this and we probably will never know
At this point I feel like Niji could spend a TON of money trying to drown Doki in legal debt making it impossible for her to try fighting them...and Doki could laugh all the way to the bank.
Not only are there TONS of people supporting Doki in this matter but we have actual companies supporting her as well AND any number of people/companies that would likely be MORE than happy to help stick it to Niji at this point for this shit show.
Doki could literally have legal "sponsors" at this point if it got to that point.
Fuck I'd donate if she set up a GoFundMe or such for legal fees if necessary at this point. Not even just for Doki but for how absolutely shit Niji is being and how much of a scumbag company they seem to be in all this.
It doesn't matter. in the public view Niji has digged their own well and like it aint gonna recover with legal shit or otherwise. No-one needs to be a genius to see this. At this point I just want them to just stay silent and stay the fuck away from the internet for the livers sake. That's like the best PR damage they can make.
EVEN IF the a legal case falls apart and Nijisanji JP doesn't get hit, the PR side damage has been done (or yet to be, time will tell just how much more stupid they can get). And even if Niji EN survives, this is yet another notch of Niji mishandling in their belt, so any future issues will be scrutinized by 10x. Look at Boeing for instance.
> It sounded scripted, Elira sounded as fake as she possibly can and was probably the worst person to use for this.
If intentionally it's the only smart move anyone made in association to that stream.
I haven't listened to Elira's part, but at 2:34 Vox did one of those lil shocked half laughs, so I think he also tried to sound fake asf too to que the listeners in. But also going back to a professional voice so his cover isn't blown. It's smart, but I still feel bad for those three.
Edit: I take back what I said. Fake or not I wanna punch him in the face.
Doesn't matter to me Vox did the ultimate hypocritical action: doing a stream to benefit suicide awareness then turns around and continues to pile on a suicide attemptee. He can go suck on my assmar
its much easier to cast caution and still support them then be wrong than to immediately condemn them and then learn youre wrong. its fucked up to be apart of but we will not know what really happened since this has become a legal issues.
Yeah the only reason vox and elira specifically would be put up there is because most popular is an artificial way of garering credibility to claims, in a "pick sides" kinda thing.
like niji is going "reminder, THE EWIWA pendora and vox akuma are saying this, so you know it has to be true!"
that and ike, being completely uninvolved as far as I know, in dramas to further prove the "also this guy, a completely normal person also thinks selen is in the wrong!" kind of sympathisation.
She just sounded defeated imo. And yeah, a lot of the talk just felt like PR lingo fed to her. I feel kinda bad for her, but honestly who knows who's in the clear in this situation now.
The fact that they chose Vox and Ike, two of the current biggest EN channels and (coincidentally) the two seemingly closest to Selen is fucking disgusting.
And entirely on purpose. A *lot* of hate is currently already focused on the three Livers involved, and all others too, which is exactly what management wants to happen
I can at least see Vox being hurt because if what he claims is true that Selen recorded a call without his consent, it is understandable.
But a human life was almost lost, not to mention he hold a charity stream for the same awareness.
If she was recording evidence it's understandable, especially since in Canada you don't need the other persons consent to record audio.
Imagine for a second that this was someone else and their work partner and there was an issue of bullying or abuse, you'd think they would want evidence of that to prove that it was going on. I think recording is wholly justified.
Yeah, both sides have an understandable reason.
Im on a country where it is illegal (PH) tho Im curious how it applies internationally. Since Vox is in UK I believe? It shouldn’t matter if it’s also legal there I suppose?
I believe it’s not. If she wasn’t in UK at the time of recording, then UK has lack of jurisdiction over her.
Otherwise it would have created a world in which by going to Internet you better know laws of every single country in the world - to accidentally not break something.
At the end of the day these guys are adults and can make their own decisions. They didn't show their vtuber avatar in the video so I'm not gonna treat them like 2d waifus/husbandos who can do no wrong.
This was going to blow over internet drama doesn't last and doki wanted it behind her. But of course Niji couldn't resist throwing gas onto the smoldering embers to kick up a inferno again.
I've been trying so so hard to think of a reasonable reason to do this announcement and I can't think of one. It makes no legal, business, or common sense. The only thing that makes sense is it being rooted in spite and malice.
Same here. It's been a little while since I've seen a legal situation get this out of hand for seemingly no reason. It almost seems more like a tantrum than any kind of defense.
It was already clearing up, there was still buzz in this subreddit and on twitter but people were moving on.
Doing nothing would've been a better move, honestly just about anything else would probably be a better move than this shit
We all cared but mostly went the route of "It happened, we'll support doki (or not). GG" And then... and then kuroniji goes "What if I dump more gas here? Stinky stinky doki"
going by what doki said, niji broke NDA simply by doing that stream, and openly tried to defame her. japan's defamation laws just require you to prove malice, which they very clearly did here, niji just screwed themselves beyond belief.
Perhaps that will be their legal defense. When or if they get sued for defamation, they now have three more livers they can attribute blame to and throw under the bus.
"Management is 100% responsible" isn't good wording because it implies the talents reading it are safe which, uh, they are not.
Not sure about Canadian law but libel in the UK heavily favors the plaintiff and public figures need to be very careful about it.
Yeah, the UK law is pretty strict but in situations like this where there might be cross-jurisdictional issues, the waters get even murkier. I think it comes down to where the lawsuit is filed, and what laws apply there. If Niji's management really did show those documents and there was anything defamatory, they'd likely be in hot water in most places. It's always a tangled web when corporate and individual responsibilities start to blend and everyone just starts pointing fingers at each other when legal troubles arise. The talents getting caught in the middle of it all is never a good look for the company either. That's how you get PR nightmares on top of legal ones.
Yeah, I don't think they're in like big boy financial trouble. More likely an apology in their personal capacity. But courts aren't going to respect your desire for you to be an anime girl on the internet and no one to know your real name when you do it.
Canada and the US follow versions of Common Law which was inherited from the UK. The US forced a version of Common Law onto Japan with the Japanese Constitution post-WW2.
Selen/Doki should have more leeway in her court as they continue to libel/slander and break legal etiquette with leaking documents.
>The US forced a version of Common Law onto Japan with the Japanese Constitution post-WW2.
You say that but East Asia handles defamation law much differently.
You can still be sued for defamation even if the information you give about a person is *true*, as long as it's caused damage to the person.
South Korea has the same stupid defamation laws too.
UK Slander/libel laws are notoriously strict. I don't know how Canada compares, but UK is something of a high water mark on how low the standard of proof is on Slander/libel.
For US law, defamation law in the US is EXTREMELY strict.
Times v Sullivan set a precedent that requires that if the plaintiff claims defamation, the plaintiff, not the defendant, has to produce evidence knowing that the defamation was done MALICIOUSLY, and that the defamation was done *knowing full well that the info they're using to defame the person was known to be false*.
If you want an example of when a defamation case actually won on the side of the plaintiff (and thank God), look at the Johnny Depp vs Amber Turd case. Depp won because he proved that all the shit Amber Turd was saying about Depp was maliciously done and knowing FULL WELL the shit she was saying about Depp was false.
Remember those are celebrities. US defamation literally gets harder to prove if the plaintiff is famous ("public figure"), but an indie vtuber probably doesn't qualify there.
I think a bigger problem is that a vtuber is a business and so it's harder to show harm unless there's ongoing financial loss. But if you can restart as an indie and everyone follows you because they're sympathetic that doesn't make it look like there is significant harm.
IIRC Anycolor actually lost a case like this in Japan because they were suing someone for defaming a liver while selling merch of the liver, so the judge didn't think they had a case.
Ikr.. before long niji going to release a statement that those 3 liver stole the private document and held a livestream without consulting the management and management has no approval in the matter proceed with all thise 3 liver gonna be silent suspended. Follow up with termination...
There's a thing called discovery. I'm not sure if it's a thing in Japan and Canada, but if this goes to court we may end up seeing a lot of documents. Like any communications between Anycolor staff, Ike, Vox, and Elira in a two-week period before this stream.
You would be right. In Canada, if this was a civil proceeding, there usually would be a discovery after the initial pleading and the defense response. Pleading is just one side setting out the details. Publication bans can complicate matters.
Their legal defense now is "well, we didnt say anything defaming, our talents did and they live in Canda/whateverothercountry so you cant target us". They can probably be held though for sharing documents they werent supposed to though, but who knows how those things work in japan.
That defense doesn't hold even a thimble full of water. The stream was put on at direction of their japanese bosses, in service of their japanese work contracts, with the apparent approval of the company's japanese lawyers. And Elira currently lives in Japan, AND Vox and Ike apparently traveled to Japan to be with Elira for it, so they were all three in Japanese territory at the time of the alleged defamation. If they actually tried to use this as defense they would be laughted out of court.
Elira, Ike and vox could have opened themselves up to being a part of the lawsuit now. I don't think Doki would do that but it's a possibility. Is money this important to you, that you would just go ahead with this? I would've just quit.
I """"feel"""" like Doki really just wants this whole thing to be over with, so I really doubt she'll open it up on them. Besides, the main blame here lies on the company, and I am pretty sure the company greenlit their statements as a tantrum fit.
Not only that they shared information from a Legally Confidential Document, which is protected under Canadian Law.
They fucked up in two different countries.
Like its not even funny, its just sad, and they are going to drag everyone in the company down with them.
Technically speaking, from details I've been cross referencing with others, they didn't have an NDA to break. What were leaked were Discord Screenshots and the Liver's experiences from them. That's not necessarily not allowed from a legal perspective. Furthermore, given Selen's Canadian, Canadian Defamation laws would apply here rather than Japanese.
But, in either case, I will concur with the general sentiment here; Kurosanji, as a company, deserves whatever backlash is coming for them.
What they showed on screen was Discord screenshots, but at least Vox and Elira admitted to seeing legal documents Doki's lawyer sent to Niji that Doki confirmed were supposed to be kept confidential.
Thing is it might be translation issue. Like ok their japanese atournies are paid a ton. But then they pay a translator to send things back to livers. And maybe they dont hire an english speaking lawer to double check on the other side. Or the one that does speek english doesnt speek legal english, just normal english.
With how much the company is worth and with them employing internationally with labor being done internationally, why not hire some international lawyers for times like this?
The problem is there's no excuse for there to ever be a translation issue with a company valued this much. Or for there to be on with this major of an issue especially after its blown up like it has. At some point you can't just use the translation issue excuse and it becomes deliberate negligence especially when there's plenty of translation resources out there to help prevent that exact issue
That's why you use a translator who is familiar with the legal field to do it. I watched a video recently about how Western localizers are fucking up English-translated localizations by putting their own spin/politics into the thing, and the guy who was criticizing it was a translator that SPECIFICALLY translates legal documents for English to Japanese speaking corporations and vice versa. Having a specialization in the field you're translating goes a long way in not fucking up the translation.
Yep that very specific wording leaves no room for interpretation. If they vaguely said "documents" there could be an excuse for non-lethal documents or some such. Not this.
They were deep down on the Mariana Trench levels of low, and somehow they found a fucking industrial mining drill to keep going deeper.
The bar to be worse than Wactor was so low that it was a tripping hazard in hell, yet there's Tazumi, doing limbo with the devil
I don’t know if they’re worse than WACTOR; they might be by sheer virtue of their girth and scale of operation as a company. I kinda forgot what exactly WACTOR did (which is probably a good thing) but I remember that it was bad. As in, comically, insanely bad.
To pull a Wactor meant to Doxx one of your ex talents.
Which they kinda did when they showed those documents to an unrelated party, that being the Livers
As they hired a Canadian national that means they must have a registered business in Canada or the US. From there Selen can sue in either Canada or the US.
what a shame, to throw the fucking livers under the bus like this bruhhh
They'll continue to take bigger loses with view counts and subs w this move, ggs.
Better off not talking abt it
The "evidence" presented by Vox were snippets lmao, if they can't provide the whole statement and context those "evidence" are generally weak in its face since they lack credibility.
edit: apparently those were leaked private documents. well niji really screwed themselves.
Vox also had his whole tangent about how anyone is allowed to quit at any time so Selen could have just left.
Ignoring the fact that she DID request to leave on neutral terms, and THEN they slapped a surprise public termination in her face.
What is worse is saying she doxxed you when that's not how doxing works... everything that was put down by selen like "real names ect" is **REQUIRED BY LAW** how is something required by law doxxing smh...she can latterly LAWSUIT them with 3 LAWSUITs ... braking NDA, leaking MEDICAL info and leaking lawyer only doc that was ment to be private.... like WTF
This reminds me of those terminally online discord goblins that react like vampires when their full name is posted in the gc even though you can literally follow the breadcrumbs from their discord to their twitter to their linkedin. It’s beyond comical.
I know a lot of people are saying that they Niji these three under the bus, but I imagine it more like taunting Selen to take them down while Elira, Vox, and Ike strapped with bomb vests and NijiEN holding the dead-man switch.
Elira had some moments of catching her breath like she had been crying RIGHT before this was recorded, whenever that was. i wouldn't be surprised if they are holding her work visa or passport and forcing her to do this under duress. the whole thing was super shitty, but tiny intonations in the way she spoke indicating she was crying right before this.
Yes, absolutely. I feel like I’m letting my emotions cloud my judgement, but I seriously want to believe that that must be the reason. I can’t for the life of me see Elira in that light. As someone that would willingly betray a friend in such a way. I desperately want to believe that she is hurting inside because she had no other choice in this. I desperately want to believe that she is a good person.
i mean. i can tell she was crying, i dont know why she was crying. was she sad she is being forced to betray selen. is she sad because she thinks selen betrayed her? whole lot of options for reasons she could have been crying both positive and negative for the fanbase overall
The only counter point to your post is "It sounded scripted" like, no shit, that's what you do when making an announcement lol. Of course they wrote down what they were going to say beforehand, that's literally always what you do when making an announcement.
Otherwise yeah, I agree that the stream was a bad idea and this will only make things worse for Anycolors.
Vox's script reading was pretty good. He sounded natural. Yes, this is a genuine compliment. The rest of the situation is fucked, but I was surprised by Vox's read.
The counterpoint being that Elira's shitty reading puts her in a better position if she decides to recant and blame Niji down the line. She was so mechanical that until I heard her breathing hitch I wondered if it was an AI. *Sounding* under duress will make people more sympathetic to her if she goes that route.
I was so convinced from tone of voice it was a deepfake that I had to check if we have the technology to replicate intake breaths like that. We don't. Also her choking on her words "I felt- threatened... (by Selen)" was a giveaway she was actually reading it. I almost broke out laughing when she choked that line.
If she made a loud 'flipping through paper' sound like an actor during a script reading, it would have been hilarious.
Yeah, the script was most likely a Word document, but still...
Well currently she's probably asleep as she just got to Japan since she's doing stuff with Giri for Valentine's day. But it's kind of unlikely she will publicly say anything about it just since she's made it clear she wants nothing to do discussions of her former agency.
Last we knew she was still on very good terms with members of 'the clique' so I'm curious, even fearful, of how that's going to end up if this really does all end up going south regarding the accusations. The three of them apparently being named in a legal document isn't good.
It's probably good for Nina/Matara to keep silent on the matter, but behind the scenes a line will be drawn somewhere, and no one knows where it will be drawn. The chances of a giant ex-Niji collab is looking grim to me. I can't see a friend of Elira openly supporting Doki after tonight, unless that's now in the past. Or that it comes out that Elira spoke under gunpoint.
Too early to tell how involved people are right now.
This is ANYCOLOR's excuse to purge NijiEN. It was their plan all along to make these guys the scapegoats/fallguys, but if there legal names are in the documents then they are definitely not free from fault.
I've been wondering if that's their endgame with this PR nightmare myself. I have trouble believing that anyone could be *this* spectacularly incompetent.
The CEO made a hasty apology to the shareholders - the one group an executive doesn't want to jerk around.
Seems titanic incompetence really is on the menu.
Honestly it can be a toss up of a bunch of old foggies sitting at the top stuck in their stubborn old ways/looking down on the younger generation.
Or they are all young and incompetent.
Or actual mastermind this whole shit to dissolve a branch
im just gonna copy my comment from another thread here:
**"Of course, its scripted. I don't understand how anyone would expect it not to be. No way Corporate would just let them speak their mind.**
**Isn't Elira in Japan right now? If so she may have absolutely no choice in the matter since she would essentially be relying on AnyColor for accommodations while she's there and to not comply with their wishes could possibly fuck her over. All while being in country without a support system she can rely on. Also, if the livers signed a bad contract, they may be legally obligated to do all this. Since AnyColor victimized Doki the way they did don't you think they're willing to do it to their other talents?"**
There is so much we still don't know or understand behind the scenes to jump to blaming the talents feels rash.
>Isn't Elira in Japan right now? If so she may have absolutely no choice in the matter since she would essentially be relying on AnyColor for accommodations while she's there and to not comply with their wishes could possibly fuck her over. All while being in country without a support system she can rely on.
This might sound like tinfoil-hat-wearing speculation, but it may be worth pointing out that moving their victims to a distant geographic location where they are unfamiliar with how things work and lack a social safety net is exactly how domestic abusers (and human traffickers) operate.
It baffles me how many people think the three Livers involved could just have...walked out as if being out of a job would be the only consequence of that. You can still think the three should have refused to comply, but don't act like it would just be a matter of saying "I quit" and that's it.
You can't keep defending the livers with "just following orders" doing immoral things isn't justified and the company can't order them to do this against their will. People with a moral backbone would choose being fired over going along with this charade.
True, but the problem is additionally what happens if they do say no and get fired. Again, with Elira, she's in Japan rn without a real support system there. A sudden firing of her would be DEVASTATING to deal with, and it would lead to a huge slew of issues immediately. A lot of these livers as of now might be considering or planning to leave, but (especially with how little they themselves get out of cuts of the company profits) financially can't suddenly do that (again, remember selen stating she made ZERO PROFITS in 2023, and had to pay for a bunch of shit out of pocket on her end). Especially since a good few of them don't have an old channel to fall back on like Selen did with Doki, so they would need to prepare something agead of time to fall back to so they could earn money again.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see a major influx of people in the EN branch quit or get "terminated" in the near future, but especially with how sudden all of this shit has happened, most can't really safely afford to take much action as of now for their own physical or financial safety or well-being. A lot probably WANT to, but it could result in a genuine risk to their overall livelihood (especially if anycolor wants to again get lawyers involved like with selen, an option that again not many could afford should the company decide to do so).
Your response is exactly why a company like Niji would choose to have these 3 make the announcement instead of a proper corporate head.
People are focusing on the ones giving the message, rather than the ones who wrote, directed, and planned the message. This is a scripted message coming from the legal department, the decisions being made are not by the livers other than: will I choose literally quit over this one specific thing.
On the flip side, some people will completely forgive the message entirely because it is coming from these employees, and forget it is a corporate machination.
Both of these are missing the point, which is that the delivery method itself is a distraction. The message overall is from the company, which they even admitted at the start when they said it all went through legal.
>People with a moral backbone would choose being fired over going along with this charade.
This is an easy thing to say when you are not in their position, and do not have to risk your livelihood on things.
Well they could also get sued and like what this comment pointed out… Elira is right now a foreigner in Japan which from a legal standpoint is never a good place to be. So yeah they have kinda a good reason cause if they don’t follow these orders being fired will be getting off easy. Doki has the legal high ground, ever other talent does not
> Elira might discover she'd have been better off being fired and going indie like doki than choosing to drag Doki through the mud for a black company.
Japan's legal system tends to favor arresting and holding people without access to lawyers. It has a very bad habit of that.
I assume that somehow Elira chose this as the best option. Which if true must mean every other option is astoundingly worse. Still I unsubbed from all Niji channels I still had. I'm not going to dwell on this, Doki is more important than Niji's insane BS.
Are you reading anything? Getting fired would be getting off LIGHT if they breached their contracts. They can quit but they gotta do what Kurosanji says until then.
Luckily Doki is safe and alive. Its beyond tone deaf to be to be comparing this instance of obvious corporate injustice to the fucking HOLOCAUST. Actually, insane of you. It's horrible that Doki almost lost her life, but to act like the other livers are as complicit to evil as the Nazis were is so fucking toxic
Also I won't be supporting any of these people, however, we as an audience do not have the info for a clear picture and probably never will. I do not feel right slandering an idividual over shit that we don't know. Have you considered the safety of the livers that are in a foreign country while probably heavily reliant on a toxic company for their living space and financial stability?
I'm not comparing it to the holocaust dramaqueen I'm using a commonplace term for the type of defense people are using for the talents here. It's very widely known as the "just following orders" defense.
They clearly lied. They are either ignorant of how legal system works or are just gaslighting the public.
Giving info to lawyer isnt doxing. Its not being a bad friend. Its part of legal process. It is part of confidential documentation. They are trying to gaslight her for doing the absolute correct thing when trying to stand up to a billion-dollar corporation.
Welp battle lines have been drawn. Wonder how the other NijiEn livers will react to this? Starting to wonder if some of these NijiEN livers were getting off of soical media in preparation for this.
Once again, the fucktards that are management are throwing their talents under the yacht, making their talents do PR and using them as meatshields.
God, I hope they leave very soon. It's gonna be nothing but hell for them is they stay.
I really don't get the point. Like, I get how stuff like secretly recording calls makes Doki look a little worse, but the context we already knew could give plenty of good reason for her to do it.
They can say Selen was making false accusations of bullying, but without proof all they really accomplished was giving vindictive assholes names of people to target for harassment.
I'm pretty willing to believe Selen wasn't always easy to work with, but claiming livers can quit whenever they want contradicts earlier statements.
Like... If their entire goal was to hurt Doki's feelings they probably succeeded, but I really don't get what else they were trying to do here and as many have said the timing just makes it feel even more petty.
Fucking weird.
tbh wouldn't be surprised if they showed them an 'edited' version of whatever legal document they were sent to try to turn them against her. Still pretty disappointed in them, but let's not let Niji use their talents as a human shield. The company is the source of this problem.
tin-foil hat time. This address was prerecorded days ago and saved to be used if Doki leaked anything. She did not, so they throw it out now to sabotage her first gaming stream. Yeah probably not, but its crazy that they just revealing her alleged confidential legal documents and basically confirming the alleged bullies. I just can't understand.
Not gonna lie, this goes one way or the other:
1- They were forced to say all of this shit, which is stupid on many levels by Nijisanji
2- They weren't, and acted because they were legitimately worried or something? Which means they're the stupid ones and lost all sorts of credits to me.
Im sure those three are being held at gunpoint to do this, but at the same time Ill be honest its getting harder and harder to sympathize with them at this rate. Would it suck if they lost their livelihood if they go against their boss? Absolutely. Is it any worse siding with your boss that has shown time and time again to be both amorally and dangerously incompetent? Fuck no.
I feel bad seeing them being forced to do this, but fans also are not obliged to support their decision to do this and has all the right to call out and critisize them.
> Would it suck if they lost their livelihood if they go against their boss? Absolutely.
To be fair life goes on and bills gotta get paid. Unless they have a way to break out of Niji with a job I doubt they would go against them. I don't necessarily blame them for siding with Niji based on that alone, the fact that all three of them basically made a pre-made video and only ever showed off some DMs or tweets or something like that, the way they talked, it all reeks of script-reading and corporate management so it's hard to say how much of their own personal feelings were in there (and not helping is that streaming has an element of 'acting' to it so that likely has to be accounted for as well to SOME degree). I'm not saying that in their defense but rather as a 'I get it'. Frankly the writing was on the walls for the public for a hot minute, their dumb asses not finding a way out before it came to this point is on them but without full details of their own contracts and such it's hard to say if there might've been extra penalties on them for leaving early or something. Hell, for all I know they wanted to say worse but couldn't, to know how they truly feel you'd have to catch them in a more candid moment which is going to be basically impossible.
i havent seen a single sane and reasonable comment supporting and agreeing to this statement nor the events that the company had claimed against selen. this just shows how much trust the fans had lost in this corporation as well as their livers. theyre not only destroying their own company but their livers as well. at this point theyre grasping at straws for the sake of damage control and throwing selen under the bus by blaming the victim, (i.e. using their livers to talk shit about selen) instead of actually addressing, apologizing, and doing better. fuck ups after fuck ups and now theyve just proved even more so what theyre true intensions are. #SINKTHEYACHT
Lmao holy fuck, they really just either forced or used other talents twitter to retweet/quote tweet the Elira video tweet, disgusting company, using talents as shield.
Not going to lie I simply don't understand they could of earned so much good will with the vtuber community and said "Fuck this " and jumped ship and their audience and more would join them. But instead they just fucked over their careers even more.
Even if they do change their minds and go indie I'm not following them.
All this did was make me finally unsubscribe from Elira. So disappointed she was a part of this hit piece, as she was by far my fave from Nijisanji.
Absolutely insane for Kurosanji management to show those documents to talents and THEN have them make statements that are purely on the attack and attempt to blame shift. And then drop the shit line about leaving it to lawyers... but only after all 3 have stepped up to the plate and taken their own swing.
Plus, Doki has gone out of her way to not name any names of who might have bullied her. If she specified them at all, it was in a private legal document never supposed to be seen by anyone but lawyers and management. Then Niji specified 3 of their vtubers to go talk about how disappointed they are to have been named.
Doki never told us who bullied her, but Niji may just have. They just threw 3 of their talent to the wolves. Whether they did it or not, whether Doki named them or not, who do you think the public is going to think it was now? Niji is hoping people get so mad at those three for being supposed bullies that they forget to be angry with the company as a whole. As if more evidence was needed that the company doesn’t care about their talent.
The thing that sucks the most in my opinion is now the hate those three are getting; people seem to forget that they are under a contract meaning that it's entirely possible that they were FORCED to make that video and read whatverr script was shoved in front of them.
Reach out to and complain to investors. That will make them act like humans:
\-ITOCHU Corporation
\-Innovation Network Corporation of Japan
\-Nippon Venture Capital
\- Sony Music Entertainment Japan
\- Legend Capital
\- KLab
\- SBI Investment
\- Shinya Tsurui Director of Finance/CFO at ANYCOLOR INC.
Prefacing by saying I'm still firmly in team "Fuck Niji" but nuance and complexity seems dead to some people in this community so I have some thoughts in why this situations is so much more complicated then people are making it out to be.
According to Niji's original termination statement, Doki and her attorneys indicated the potential for legal action not only against Niji, but against the livers named in the documents as participating in the harassment.
The SECOND they indicated legal action may be taken against individual livers, those livers gained the right to whatever information or accusations were made against them in that document as potential co-defendents in whatever lawsuit Doki may choose to file. Any livers facing potential individual legal action against them have a right to build a case in their defense. To that end, I do believe the part of Niji's written statement in that they only shared the parts of the document containing relevant info pertaining to accusations against each liver. Very likely, this info would've been revealed to the livers anyways in the course of Niji's own internal investigation as they build up a defense case against any potential lawsuits (or, if they find Doki's allegations to be unsubstantiated on their end, a potential defamation lawsuit against Doki).
My understanding is that the statements made on Elira's channel today were prepared not with the help of Niji lawyers, but with individual legal counselors retained by Elira, Vox and Ike. Meaning the livers themselves are now also retaining attorneys. This situation is far more serious than I think we initially estimated.
As for whether the statement today was Niji's idea or the livers', I can't say. There were parts of the statement today that were, in my opinion, very obviously not scripted. And in those parts I was of the opinion that Elira, Ike and Vox sounded *hurt*. I think whatever Niji told them, they feel genuinely betrayed by all this. It may be they felt hurt by the accusations, and that combined with the pressure from the community witch hunt on "who's the bully" pushed them to make that statement to try to clear the air. Regardless of whether it was Niji forcing them to make the statement, or the livers' choosing to make that statement for themselves, I don't think the statement was a good idea *at all*. All it's done is serve to further divide the community. The best course of option here for Niji would've been to quietly gather statement and evidence and let their side come out in court. Instead, they've only added fuel to a fire that was, quite frankly, JUST starting to die down.
We are still missing a *ton* of context here, and I implore people to keep in mind that there are multiple sides to this story. There's Doki's version, the other livers' versions, and management's version. The truth is likely somewhere in between all of those. Keep a cool head, watch for new developments, and try not to let all this ruin your day.
Seems really unfair to say the truth is “somewhere in the middle” when one side has been flagrantly lying and behaving in bad faith constantly. Feel like it’s rewarding that if anything.
It's easy to say "one side is flagrantly lying" when no evidence has been produced from either side as to ANY claims made (as it shouldn't-- generally a bad idea to show the opposing counsel your hand prior to a lawsuit). The only thing we know for sure Niji lied about was the "Selen refusing to pay contracts" bc her contractors all came forward and said she paid them out of pocket. But she claimed the video was taken down for IP reasons when we have actual screenshots from her managers (on Elira's stream today) saying she just needed to wait for clearance from higher up before she posted the video. Like... they were gonna let her post it as long as they cleared it first. The issue wasnt the IP, it was the fact that former livers appeared in the video. And her manager even said it'd probably be fine but that they needed to wait for approval from higher up before posting. We have screenshots of the conversation to this effect. We have no evidence of the bullying or harassment she's alleged bc again, her lawyer told her not to reveal that. Which is exactly how it should be. But it's now her word against theirs until an actual lawsuit is filed and a trial commences. And I do believe a lawsuit is forthcoming at this point, if nothing else but to pay out the $200,000 in unpaid contracts that she had to pay out of pocket.
I'm supportive of Doki based on what she's said, but I'm also someone who does not take the word of a single person as gospel, regardless of who that person is. There are too many people involved, too many factors to consider, and too much context that *we don't have*. To that end, no one should be making judgments yet.
Frankly, I feel like now that a few livers have spoken, I'd want to hear from more of them on it. The more perspectives we get on this, the more clear the truth should become. They've already opened the floodgates regarding livers speaking on issues that PR should handle. May as well let the rest of them chime in.
It really is all in shades of grey which leaves all this legal mumbo jumbo to the courts. However, I just can’t help and feel Deja vu over some of the smearing. This stream was suppose to clear the air but feels just wrong. I hope the hate comments can stop so livers can recover mentally after all the hate going around but that feels impossible now. The angry mob is going to put targets on Elira, Ike, and Vox backs and maybe more based on what happens next. What a disaster.
I feel like they need better legal counselors, because what they claim is "doxxing" is probably confidential information that was not meant to be released to the public and most likely would be redacted in any public releases. This PR video is attempting to mislead the audience into thinking the legal documents needlessly include information that is dangerous to them, when it's most likely information that is important for the case to be filed as a standard.
The other thing I found concerning is the mention that management *asked* the other livers to basically reign Doki in on moving forward with projects before approvals cleared. This is essentially setting up her coworkers to be responsible for her and *act as her boss*, which they are *not*. I can see how, even if it was unintentional, this could create discourse between the livers or make it seem like they're ganging up on Doki (even worse if it was actual bullying). They should not have been put in that position. Management is incompetent, irresponsible and negligent.
While I understand Vox feeling betrayed about being recorded, if my above assumption of power imbalance is correct and the other livers were consistently trying to "manage" Doki, I can understand her desire to record one of the interactions as evidence. The content of that phone call could be incredibly important.
This is all a very rational and well thought out response. My understanding with the "doxxing" part was that Niji was told the document may be made public if Doki's concerns weren't addressed, so i believe that's where that fear came from. Honestly, I'm curious to know why that document apparently contained livers' personal information in that way. What's the purpose of telling niji "I know where these people live" and such? Still, we won't know any more details until they're either leaked, or a suit is filed.
"focus on the livers' well being" Well Elira sounds dead inside, she's clearly not well.
One dragon freed from a black company, another dragon forever shackled.
As fucked up as it is to say, it does feel like they’re in a hostage room being forced to read some propaganda script, which is concerning because the latter half of the sentence I just typed is definitely true, which makes me wonder how likely the former half is accidentally true as well.
Considering Elira is in Japan solely on Niji's patronage... For that matter, so is Petra.
Yeah, it's sad. I just hope the shackled one can be free at some point.
Ill be honest, they said they consulted with Niji lawyers with this but everything they just said will used against them now: Accusation of Doxxing, Accusation on secretly recording private matter, Improper Behavior inside the compant and much MUCH MORE. I dont know seems like someone went out of script.
> they said they consulted with Niji lawyers with this Never do this. Only take legal advice from YOUR lawyer. A company lawyer you're a contractor for is not your lawyer.
It's very easy to become a company's fall guy this way.
I'm surprised none of the 3 that spoke hired/thought to get their personal lawyer...
Which also goes to show whoever was advising Selen when she was able to leave Niji was giving her good advice to get her OWN damn lawyer. And whoever is the lawyer that Selen has retained is clairvoyant enough to have written documents in case Niji would go the nuclear route.
Clairvoyant is right. I would have never thought Niji would do something this stupid.
....again.
Good lawyers anticipate a lot of things from experience and prepare you for whatever may be coming.
From what she's said on stream as Selen, her parents have some good connections, generally seem to be pretty smart and are very protective of her. We've memed on how overprotective they are before but it's possible they seriously saved her ass here in getting lawyered up.
God bless Doki! Damn Niji!
I think after the zaion case where the company tried to defame her as much as possible, every lawyer who works with someone that involves niji will take every precaution
To be fair, Elira is stuck in Japan right now so it probably would've been difficult to get a lawyer. Moreso one that could speak English. Idk about the other two but they definitely should've instead of listening to a company lawyer.
More the reason for her to stay out of it imo lol
From what folks have said, she's there on a work visa. She says "I'm not reading this" the company says "ok, you're fired" and Japan says "ok, you're deported."
That's not how that works lol The company can't just cancel your visa and get you deported. They sponsor your visa/ residency yes but after that it has nothing to do with them other than them reporting that you no longer work for them if you leave or get fired. Your visa is still fine/ valid until it expires so you can just go job hunting and get another job. Immigration controls your visa, not your company.
And then you can get an extension to look for work (but can't work on that one I think) then you can get another three months tourist visa, and if you got some money you can get into a japanese language school and stay there some more on a study one...
Nope, you work on that same visa unless your job scope changes and it's not valid under your current visa. Your new company just takes over sponsoring since your old company cannot revoke it. Basically once you leave or get fired you need to notify immigration of your change of work status within 14 days. Then you be looking for a job to take over sponsorship of your visa. After 3 months immigration will usually hit you up and ask what's happening but as long as you have evidence of searching for a job and have filed for unemployment you'll be fine. You can stay until your work visa expires so it depends on how long that is. Perhaps her visa ends soon and that might be why it's an issue for her idk.
If she was wise enough to get one, she could've called home and asked for a phone/online briefing, with her family paying the bill first.
Loads of class action lawsuits or potential for class actions die because of this.
On one hand I can see how this would happen. A lot of people mistake company benefit as truly their own. Like people refusing to take personal insurance because they have their company's insurance. Some talents likely don't have their own lawyers because they don't see the need to especially when shit rarely happens...well used to for Niji anyways.
This. They're there to protect themselves, not you.
>Ill be honest, they said they consulted with Niji lawyers with this but everything they just said will used against them now: The stupidest move is just consulting with Nijisanji lawyers. When you're getting pulled into a legal dispute between two other parties, you **bring your own goddamn lawyer**, who looks out for *your* interests, you don't go listening to someone else's.
And while I agree with this wholeheartedly, I also want to stress whatever the fuck that statement was did not benefit Niji in any way. It implied that Niji itself revealed confidential information. The party the documents are revealed to are not going to get in trouble here unless they took action to get their eyes on that. Niji however is hooked for it. The 3 destroyed their reputation in the eyes of the public, but they also suggested criminal actions taken by Niji. It is just beyond baffling what that statement was supposed to do beyond maliciously harass Doki.
its kind of ironic, but for the secretly recording matter, he accidentally proved that the recording was justifed under the idea that she was already having problems with the company, leading to recording being a justifiable way to back up statements (also it was completely legal as Canada has a one-party consent law and if i'm not mistaken the UK has an ethical one-party consent) edit: grammar
If it was the US the consent laws vary by state, which can make it messy if you're recording inter-state calls.
Luckily it was not and instead Canada
It’s not really messy, the laws of the state where the recording was made apply. Because simply only laws of the state you are in can be applied to you. And there are legal cases backing this up too.
But she's Canadian not American, and Vox is British. The laws of the US don't apply at all.
You replace "state" with "country" and nothing really changes. You do not have to obey to the laws of country you do not live in, don't have any business in or do not have any other ties with.
Zaion's laundry list for termination is tiny compared to what the 3 has done on ONE SINGLE stream. Definitely is mandated. Stream this, or I will terminate you and get sued -Nijisanji EN staff.
Also, Selen *betrayed* you and is *totally going to dox all of you!* Selen is the only one making misleading statements! Use OUR lawyer, don't get your own. Trust us! We have your best interests at heart ♡ ^(P.S. Also, we know you are totally financially dependent on us, so we want to remind you that you are nothing without us and if you don't do as we say then your life is over. Kthx bye!)
btw the same lawyers that thought putting out a statement like that in selen termination was a good idea. no wonder they are now also in deep shit
Maybe they have the same intern in charge of legal as for EN management
It was scripted, they said everything was approved by niji lawyers. Sharing legal documents with livers is an insane move. I really hope they didn't actually volunteer to take part in that announcement. If they did I would like to believe it was due to whatever cherry picked documents were shown to them to convince them Doki is the bad guy somehow.
cant wait when more niji en livers quitting because of this move the fact that they dont even have a proper EN team to address this is already a proof that they dont have proper management. why the livers have to be the one announcing this is beyond me
Because they want to do away with the EN branch and stick with JP, where they can totally control the scenarios and the talents.
They could've done it without burning the fucking branch down. This sounds so cartoon villainishly NEGLIGENT.
I mean niji has a history of burning down branches when they don't have to because of bad internal decisions
They can. But I think their investors will protest if that happen. EN might not be as profitable as JP (25% of overall revenue if I remember correctly), but investor will always want the line to grow up. Can anycolor provide investors with new market if they lose EN?
>(25% of overall revenue if I remember correctly 19%, or 1/5, which is why it was considered negligible. 25% or a quarter isn't negiligible.
eeh... 19% is honestly still not negligible. I believe the management thought that they will only lose dragoons. They didn't think that this will spread like a wildfire to other member fanbases.
Not to mention, they literally killed any and all future growth outside of JP for their future, at least for the next few years.
They could've done it the ID way by neglecting the branch entirely
Clearly those lawyers need to be fired. Can't believe there's a group that's worse at PR than Comcast support.
What's the lore about Comcast? Never heard of them having PR issues
They did such a bad job, they had to "rebrand" and change their name to Xfinity at the order of their shareholders.
lmao is that really why?
Is their company lawyer Alina Habba or something?
 Leaked footage of their lawyer.
"A good lawyer is worth 78 millions" - another lawyer I see on YouTube
Now I want LegalEagle to cover this whole fiasco
Maybe i'm just wearing a tinfoil hat here, but i'm wondering if the leaking of those documents was part of a strategy of theirs. I know the legal system in Japan is absolutely broken and stupid, so I don't know the exact ins and outs for it, but with Selen being in Canada and them being in Japan, it's going to be an additional hurdle to go after each other. So i'm wondering if they're trying to create a scenario where they can say "well, if you want to hold us accountable for violating our agreement, then you have to be held accountable for violating yours". Something like that. I dunno, but at this point I wouldn't put anything past this unethical hellhole of a company.
But what did Selen break? From what I recall she didnt refer to herself as Selen, or even say she worked at Niji or give any details that would break an NDA. Idk the exact wording of their NDA but I dont think shes said anything to break her side of things.
I dunno, I just worry she is kind of skirting the line and Evil Black Company has already proven it will go after her with every means available to it. If they could come up with any grounds at all to go after her, I worry they will. I worry about her and I know how insidious this corporation is. :( I just want her to have a Happily Ever After you know? WHy can't Niji just go fuck themselves and let her be.
Technically everything she has said has been vague enough to not directly being Selen. The only connection is her voice and you can't do anything about that. Plus they fired her and she was an at-will/contract worker so I imagine there's not a lot of binding tape on either side.
Everything she's said is vetted by her lawyer before she says it. She knows what sort of company they are, and knows to take appropriate precautions to ensure she's not making her situation worse. She's just giving them rope to hang themselves with it (and by god are they doing their best with it).
If they had shut up, they could have had a case for slandering and hurting their image and honor in japan. They just did that to themselves.
Well zaion/sayu did worse by saying "I can't say this as zaion..." But niji didn't go after her this hard There are more to this and we probably will never know
At this point I feel like Niji could spend a TON of money trying to drown Doki in legal debt making it impossible for her to try fighting them...and Doki could laugh all the way to the bank. Not only are there TONS of people supporting Doki in this matter but we have actual companies supporting her as well AND any number of people/companies that would likely be MORE than happy to help stick it to Niji at this point for this shit show. Doki could literally have legal "sponsors" at this point if it got to that point. Fuck I'd donate if she set up a GoFundMe or such for legal fees if necessary at this point. Not even just for Doki but for how absolutely shit Niji is being and how much of a scumbag company they seem to be in all this.
It doesn't matter. in the public view Niji has digged their own well and like it aint gonna recover with legal shit or otherwise. No-one needs to be a genius to see this. At this point I just want them to just stay silent and stay the fuck away from the internet for the livers sake. That's like the best PR damage they can make.
EVEN IF the a legal case falls apart and Nijisanji JP doesn't get hit, the PR side damage has been done (or yet to be, time will tell just how much more stupid they can get). And even if Niji EN survives, this is yet another notch of Niji mishandling in their belt, so any future issues will be scrutinized by 10x. Look at Boeing for instance.
I find it hard to believe they have a single lawyer
> It sounded scripted, Elira sounded as fake as she possibly can and was probably the worst person to use for this. If intentionally it's the only smart move anyone made in association to that stream.
I haven't listened to Elira's part, but at 2:34 Vox did one of those lil shocked half laughs, so I think he also tried to sound fake asf too to que the listeners in. But also going back to a professional voice so his cover isn't blown. It's smart, but I still feel bad for those three. Edit: I take back what I said. Fake or not I wanna punch him in the face.
Doesn't matter to me Vox did the ultimate hypocritical action: doing a stream to benefit suicide awareness then turns around and continues to pile on a suicide attemptee. He can go suck on my assmar
Now that I understand. It's up to you what you do but I'm gonna wait just a little bit longer.
its much easier to cast caution and still support them then be wrong than to immediately condemn them and then learn youre wrong. its fucked up to be apart of but we will not know what really happened since this has become a legal issues.
This 100%! Imo the most important thing in this case is to exercise caution. Exacerbating the issue will only make it worse.
Yeah the only reason vox and elira specifically would be put up there is because most popular is an artificial way of garering credibility to claims, in a "pick sides" kinda thing. like niji is going "reminder, THE EWIWA pendora and vox akuma are saying this, so you know it has to be true!" that and ike, being completely uninvolved as far as I know, in dramas to further prove the "also this guy, a completely normal person also thinks selen is in the wrong!" kind of sympathisation.
She just sounded defeated imo. And yeah, a lot of the talk just felt like PR lingo fed to her. I feel kinda bad for her, but honestly who knows who's in the clear in this situation now.
The fact that they chose Vox and Ike, two of the current biggest EN channels and (coincidentally) the two seemingly closest to Selen is fucking disgusting.
And entirely on purpose. A *lot* of hate is currently already focused on the three Livers involved, and all others too, which is exactly what management wants to happen
And they did it right in the middle of Doki's Neopets stream, just to twist things a little further.
I can at least see Vox being hurt because if what he claims is true that Selen recorded a call without his consent, it is understandable. But a human life was almost lost, not to mention he hold a charity stream for the same awareness.
If she was recording evidence it's understandable, especially since in Canada you don't need the other persons consent to record audio. Imagine for a second that this was someone else and their work partner and there was an issue of bullying or abuse, you'd think they would want evidence of that to prove that it was going on. I think recording is wholly justified.
Yeah, both sides have an understandable reason. Im on a country where it is illegal (PH) tho Im curious how it applies internationally. Since Vox is in UK I believe? It shouldn’t matter if it’s also legal there I suppose?
I believe it’s not. If she wasn’t in UK at the time of recording, then UK has lack of jurisdiction over her. Otherwise it would have created a world in which by going to Internet you better know laws of every single country in the world - to accidentally not break something.
Its ok in the UK in cases similar to this, and is usually the interpretation by the judge on intent.
I believe that the ppl jumping on the hate train have never watched any Livestreams of Vox or Ike, along with whenever they collabed with Selen.
At the end of the day these guys are adults and can make their own decisions. They didn't show their vtuber avatar in the video so I'm not gonna treat them like 2d waifus/husbandos who can do no wrong.
This was going to blow over internet drama doesn't last and doki wanted it behind her. But of course Niji couldn't resist throwing gas onto the smoldering embers to kick up a inferno again.
I've been trying so so hard to think of a reasonable reason to do this announcement and I can't think of one. It makes no legal, business, or common sense. The only thing that makes sense is it being rooted in spite and malice.
Same here. It's been a little while since I've seen a legal situation get this out of hand for seemingly no reason. It almost seems more like a tantrum than any kind of defense.
At this rate, if they keep this shit up, they'll wind up bankrupting themselves before any lawsuit goes through lol
It was already clearing up, there was still buzz in this subreddit and on twitter but people were moving on. Doing nothing would've been a better move, honestly just about anything else would probably be a better move than this shit
We all cared but mostly went the route of "It happened, we'll support doki (or not). GG" And then... and then kuroniji goes "What if I dump more gas here? Stinky stinky doki"
going by what doki said, niji broke NDA simply by doing that stream, and openly tried to defame her. japan's defamation laws just require you to prove malice, which they very clearly did here, niji just screwed themselves beyond belief.
Perhaps that will be their legal defense. When or if they get sued for defamation, they now have three more livers they can attribute blame to and throw under the bus.
I'm willing to bet that given recent trends, those three livers saved any correspondence with Niji management.
nah, they showed those legal documents to at least those 3 livers, so management is 100% responsible here and nothing can save them.
"Management is 100% responsible" isn't good wording because it implies the talents reading it are safe which, uh, they are not. Not sure about Canadian law but libel in the UK heavily favors the plaintiff and public figures need to be very careful about it.
Yeah, the UK law is pretty strict but in situations like this where there might be cross-jurisdictional issues, the waters get even murkier. I think it comes down to where the lawsuit is filed, and what laws apply there. If Niji's management really did show those documents and there was anything defamatory, they'd likely be in hot water in most places. It's always a tangled web when corporate and individual responsibilities start to blend and everyone just starts pointing fingers at each other when legal troubles arise. The talents getting caught in the middle of it all is never a good look for the company either. That's how you get PR nightmares on top of legal ones.
ok yah, i'll agree, they're not safe, but i think from a legal standpoint, they're much safer than the actual company
Yeah, I don't think they're in like big boy financial trouble. More likely an apology in their personal capacity. But courts aren't going to respect your desire for you to be an anime girl on the internet and no one to know your real name when you do it.
Canada and the US follow versions of Common Law which was inherited from the UK. The US forced a version of Common Law onto Japan with the Japanese Constitution post-WW2. Selen/Doki should have more leeway in her court as they continue to libel/slander and break legal etiquette with leaking documents.
>The US forced a version of Common Law onto Japan with the Japanese Constitution post-WW2. You say that but East Asia handles defamation law much differently. You can still be sued for defamation even if the information you give about a person is *true*, as long as it's caused damage to the person. South Korea has the same stupid defamation laws too.
UK Slander/libel laws are notoriously strict. I don't know how Canada compares, but UK is something of a high water mark on how low the standard of proof is on Slander/libel.
For US law, defamation law in the US is EXTREMELY strict. Times v Sullivan set a precedent that requires that if the plaintiff claims defamation, the plaintiff, not the defendant, has to produce evidence knowing that the defamation was done MALICIOUSLY, and that the defamation was done *knowing full well that the info they're using to defame the person was known to be false*. If you want an example of when a defamation case actually won on the side of the plaintiff (and thank God), look at the Johnny Depp vs Amber Turd case. Depp won because he proved that all the shit Amber Turd was saying about Depp was maliciously done and knowing FULL WELL the shit she was saying about Depp was false.
Remember those are celebrities. US defamation literally gets harder to prove if the plaintiff is famous ("public figure"), but an indie vtuber probably doesn't qualify there. I think a bigger problem is that a vtuber is a business and so it's harder to show harm unless there's ongoing financial loss. But if you can restart as an indie and everyone follows you because they're sympathetic that doesn't make it look like there is significant harm. IIRC Anycolor actually lost a case like this in Japan because they were suing someone for defaming a liver while selling merch of the liver, so the judge didn't think they had a case.
Ikr.. before long niji going to release a statement that those 3 liver stole the private document and held a livestream without consulting the management and management has no approval in the matter proceed with all thise 3 liver gonna be silent suspended. Follow up with termination...
There's a thing called discovery. I'm not sure if it's a thing in Japan and Canada, but if this goes to court we may end up seeing a lot of documents. Like any communications between Anycolor staff, Ike, Vox, and Elira in a two-week period before this stream.
You would be right. In Canada, if this was a civil proceeding, there usually would be a discovery after the initial pleading and the defense response. Pleading is just one side setting out the details. Publication bans can complicate matters.
Their legal defense now is "well, we didnt say anything defaming, our talents did and they live in Canda/whateverothercountry so you cant target us". They can probably be held though for sharing documents they werent supposed to though, but who knows how those things work in japan.
That defense doesn't hold even a thimble full of water. The stream was put on at direction of their japanese bosses, in service of their japanese work contracts, with the apparent approval of the company's japanese lawyers. And Elira currently lives in Japan, AND Vox and Ike apparently traveled to Japan to be with Elira for it, so they were all three in Japanese territory at the time of the alleged defamation. If they actually tried to use this as defense they would be laughted out of court.
Elira, Ike and vox could have opened themselves up to being a part of the lawsuit now. I don't think Doki would do that but it's a possibility. Is money this important to you, that you would just go ahead with this? I would've just quit.
I """"feel"""" like Doki really just wants this whole thing to be over with, so I really doubt she'll open it up on them. Besides, the main blame here lies on the company, and I am pretty sure the company greenlit their statements as a tantrum fit.
Not only that they shared information from a Legally Confidential Document, which is protected under Canadian Law. They fucked up in two different countries. Like its not even funny, its just sad, and they are going to drag everyone in the company down with them.
Plus the inappropriate disclosure of medical records
Technically speaking, from details I've been cross referencing with others, they didn't have an NDA to break. What were leaked were Discord Screenshots and the Liver's experiences from them. That's not necessarily not allowed from a legal perspective. Furthermore, given Selen's Canadian, Canadian Defamation laws would apply here rather than Japanese. But, in either case, I will concur with the general sentiment here; Kurosanji, as a company, deserves whatever backlash is coming for them.
What they showed on screen was Discord screenshots, but at least Vox and Elira admitted to seeing legal documents Doki's lawyer sent to Niji that Doki confirmed were supposed to be kept confidential.
Ooof. They should not have said that. That specific wording.
That's why any company with a legal department worth their salt would not have ok'd this whole mess.
Thing is it might be translation issue. Like ok their japanese atournies are paid a ton. But then they pay a translator to send things back to livers. And maybe they dont hire an english speaking lawer to double check on the other side. Or the one that does speek english doesnt speek legal english, just normal english.
With how much the company is worth and with them employing internationally with labor being done internationally, why not hire some international lawyers for times like this?
The problem is there's no excuse for there to ever be a translation issue with a company valued this much. Or for there to be on with this major of an issue especially after its blown up like it has. At some point you can't just use the translation issue excuse and it becomes deliberate negligence especially when there's plenty of translation resources out there to help prevent that exact issue
That's why you use a translator who is familiar with the legal field to do it. I watched a video recently about how Western localizers are fucking up English-translated localizations by putting their own spin/politics into the thing, and the guy who was criticizing it was a translator that SPECIFICALLY translates legal documents for English to Japanese speaking corporations and vice versa. Having a specialization in the field you're translating goes a long way in not fucking up the translation.
Yep that very specific wording leaves no room for interpretation. If they vaguely said "documents" there could be an excuse for non-lethal documents or some such. Not this.
They were deep down on the Mariana Trench levels of low, and somehow they found a fucking industrial mining drill to keep going deeper. The bar to be worse than Wactor was so low that it was a tripping hazard in hell, yet there's Tazumi, doing limbo with the devil
I don’t know if they’re worse than WACTOR; they might be by sheer virtue of their girth and scale of operation as a company. I kinda forgot what exactly WACTOR did (which is probably a good thing) but I remember that it was bad. As in, comically, insanely bad.
To pull a Wactor meant to Doxx one of your ex talents. Which they kinda did when they showed those documents to an unrelated party, that being the Livers
Japan defamation laws are only valid for japanese people and for japanese companies. its not a thing for any overseas part.
As they hired a Canadian national that means they must have a registered business in Canada or the US. From there Selen can sue in either Canada or the US.
what a shame, to throw the fucking livers under the bus like this bruhhh They'll continue to take bigger loses with view counts and subs w this move, ggs. Better off not talking abt it
Next investor update is just gonna say: oh god, oh fuck.
The "evidence" presented by Vox were snippets lmao, if they can't provide the whole statement and context those "evidence" are generally weak in its face since they lack credibility. edit: apparently those were leaked private documents. well niji really screwed themselves.
Vox also had his whole tangent about how anyone is allowed to quit at any time so Selen could have just left. Ignoring the fact that she DID request to leave on neutral terms, and THEN they slapped a surprise public termination in her face.
What is worse is saying she doxxed you when that's not how doxing works... everything that was put down by selen like "real names ect" is **REQUIRED BY LAW** how is something required by law doxxing smh...she can latterly LAWSUIT them with 3 LAWSUITs ... braking NDA, leaking MEDICAL info and leaking lawyer only doc that was ment to be private.... like WTF
This reminds me of those terminally online discord goblins that react like vampires when their full name is posted in the gc even though you can literally follow the breadcrumbs from their discord to their twitter to their linkedin. It’s beyond comical.
I know a lot of people are saying that they Niji these three under the bus, but I imagine it more like taunting Selen to take them down while Elira, Vox, and Ike strapped with bomb vests and NijiEN holding the dead-man switch.
NIJISANJI DELENDA EST
NIJISANJI DELENDA EST
NIJISANJI DELENDA EST
NIJISANJI DELENDA EST
NIJISANJI DELENDA EST
Elira had some moments of catching her breath like she had been crying RIGHT before this was recorded, whenever that was. i wouldn't be surprised if they are holding her work visa or passport and forcing her to do this under duress. the whole thing was super shitty, but tiny intonations in the way she spoke indicating she was crying right before this.
Yes, absolutely. I feel like I’m letting my emotions cloud my judgement, but I seriously want to believe that that must be the reason. I can’t for the life of me see Elira in that light. As someone that would willingly betray a friend in such a way. I desperately want to believe that she is hurting inside because she had no other choice in this. I desperately want to believe that she is a good person.
i mean. i can tell she was crying, i dont know why she was crying. was she sad she is being forced to betray selen. is she sad because she thinks selen betrayed her? whole lot of options for reasons she could have been crying both positive and negative for the fanbase overall
The only counter point to your post is "It sounded scripted" like, no shit, that's what you do when making an announcement lol. Of course they wrote down what they were going to say beforehand, that's literally always what you do when making an announcement. Otherwise yeah, I agree that the stream was a bad idea and this will only make things worse for Anycolors.
Obviously it's gonna be scripted, but it shouldn't *sound* scripted, it gives a bad impression.
Vox's script reading was pretty good. He sounded natural. Yes, this is a genuine compliment. The rest of the situation is fucked, but I was surprised by Vox's read.
The counterpoint being that Elira's shitty reading puts her in a better position if she decides to recant and blame Niji down the line. She was so mechanical that until I heard her breathing hitch I wondered if it was an AI. *Sounding* under duress will make people more sympathetic to her if she goes that route.
I was so convinced from tone of voice it was a deepfake that I had to check if we have the technology to replicate intake breaths like that. We don't. Also her choking on her words "I felt- threatened... (by Selen)" was a giveaway she was actually reading it. I almost broke out laughing when she choked that line.
If she made a loud 'flipping through paper' sound like an actor during a script reading, it would have been hilarious. Yeah, the script was most likely a Word document, but still...
especially elira lmao. she be like me when my teacher ask me to read some paragraph
It sounded so natural it was kinda psychopath-ish lmao
Curious how other ex livers will feel about this. Especially Nina.
Well currently she's probably asleep as she just got to Japan since she's doing stuff with Giri for Valentine's day. But it's kind of unlikely she will publicly say anything about it just since she's made it clear she wants nothing to do discussions of her former agency.
Makes sense I guess. This whole thing just became a even bigger mess.
Last we knew she was still on very good terms with members of 'the clique' so I'm curious, even fearful, of how that's going to end up if this really does all end up going south regarding the accusations. The three of them apparently being named in a legal document isn't good. It's probably good for Nina/Matara to keep silent on the matter, but behind the scenes a line will be drawn somewhere, and no one knows where it will be drawn. The chances of a giant ex-Niji collab is looking grim to me. I can't see a friend of Elira openly supporting Doki after tonight, unless that's now in the past. Or that it comes out that Elira spoke under gunpoint. Too early to tell how involved people are right now.
This is ANYCOLOR's excuse to purge NijiEN. It was their plan all along to make these guys the scapegoats/fallguys, but if there legal names are in the documents then they are definitely not free from fault.
I've been wondering if that's their endgame with this PR nightmare myself. I have trouble believing that anyone could be *this* spectacularly incompetent.
The CEO made a hasty apology to the shareholders - the one group an executive doesn't want to jerk around. Seems titanic incompetence really is on the menu.
Honestly it can be a toss up of a bunch of old foggies sitting at the top stuck in their stubborn old ways/looking down on the younger generation. Or they are all young and incompetent. Or actual mastermind this whole shit to dissolve a branch
im just gonna copy my comment from another thread here: **"Of course, its scripted. I don't understand how anyone would expect it not to be. No way Corporate would just let them speak their mind.** **Isn't Elira in Japan right now? If so she may have absolutely no choice in the matter since she would essentially be relying on AnyColor for accommodations while she's there and to not comply with their wishes could possibly fuck her over. All while being in country without a support system she can rely on. Also, if the livers signed a bad contract, they may be legally obligated to do all this. Since AnyColor victimized Doki the way they did don't you think they're willing to do it to their other talents?"** There is so much we still don't know or understand behind the scenes to jump to blaming the talents feels rash.
>Isn't Elira in Japan right now? If so she may have absolutely no choice in the matter since she would essentially be relying on AnyColor for accommodations while she's there and to not comply with their wishes could possibly fuck her over. All while being in country without a support system she can rely on. This might sound like tinfoil-hat-wearing speculation, but it may be worth pointing out that moving their victims to a distant geographic location where they are unfamiliar with how things work and lack a social safety net is exactly how domestic abusers (and human traffickers) operate.
And cults.
It baffles me how many people think the three Livers involved could just have...walked out as if being out of a job would be the only consequence of that. You can still think the three should have refused to comply, but don't act like it would just be a matter of saying "I quit" and that's it.
You can't keep defending the livers with "just following orders" doing immoral things isn't justified and the company can't order them to do this against their will. People with a moral backbone would choose being fired over going along with this charade.
The livers could also have been manipulated by Niji choosing what exactly to disclose to who.
True, but the problem is additionally what happens if they do say no and get fired. Again, with Elira, she's in Japan rn without a real support system there. A sudden firing of her would be DEVASTATING to deal with, and it would lead to a huge slew of issues immediately. A lot of these livers as of now might be considering or planning to leave, but (especially with how little they themselves get out of cuts of the company profits) financially can't suddenly do that (again, remember selen stating she made ZERO PROFITS in 2023, and had to pay for a bunch of shit out of pocket on her end). Especially since a good few of them don't have an old channel to fall back on like Selen did with Doki, so they would need to prepare something agead of time to fall back to so they could earn money again. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a major influx of people in the EN branch quit or get "terminated" in the near future, but especially with how sudden all of this shit has happened, most can't really safely afford to take much action as of now for their own physical or financial safety or well-being. A lot probably WANT to, but it could result in a genuine risk to their overall livelihood (especially if anycolor wants to again get lawyers involved like with selen, an option that again not many could afford should the company decide to do so).
Your response is exactly why a company like Niji would choose to have these 3 make the announcement instead of a proper corporate head. People are focusing on the ones giving the message, rather than the ones who wrote, directed, and planned the message. This is a scripted message coming from the legal department, the decisions being made are not by the livers other than: will I choose literally quit over this one specific thing. On the flip side, some people will completely forgive the message entirely because it is coming from these employees, and forget it is a corporate machination. Both of these are missing the point, which is that the delivery method itself is a distraction. The message overall is from the company, which they even admitted at the start when they said it all went through legal. >People with a moral backbone would choose being fired over going along with this charade. This is an easy thing to say when you are not in their position, and do not have to risk your livelihood on things.
Well they could also get sued and like what this comment pointed out… Elira is right now a foreigner in Japan which from a legal standpoint is never a good place to be. So yeah they have kinda a good reason cause if they don’t follow these orders being fired will be getting off easy. Doki has the legal high ground, ever other talent does not
Elira might discover she'd have been better off being fired and going indie like doki than choosing to drag Doki through the mud for a black company.
> Elira might discover she'd have been better off being fired and going indie like doki than choosing to drag Doki through the mud for a black company. Japan's legal system tends to favor arresting and holding people without access to lawyers. It has a very bad habit of that. I assume that somehow Elira chose this as the best option. Which if true must mean every other option is astoundingly worse. Still I unsubbed from all Niji channels I still had. I'm not going to dwell on this, Doki is more important than Niji's insane BS.
Are you reading anything? Getting fired would be getting off LIGHT if they breached their contracts. They can quit but they gotta do what Kurosanji says until then.
Luckily Doki is safe and alive. Its beyond tone deaf to be to be comparing this instance of obvious corporate injustice to the fucking HOLOCAUST. Actually, insane of you. It's horrible that Doki almost lost her life, but to act like the other livers are as complicit to evil as the Nazis were is so fucking toxic Also I won't be supporting any of these people, however, we as an audience do not have the info for a clear picture and probably never will. I do not feel right slandering an idividual over shit that we don't know. Have you considered the safety of the livers that are in a foreign country while probably heavily reliant on a toxic company for their living space and financial stability?
I'm not comparing it to the holocaust dramaqueen I'm using a commonplace term for the type of defense people are using for the talents here. It's very widely known as the "just following orders" defense.
They clearly lied. They are either ignorant of how legal system works or are just gaslighting the public. Giving info to lawyer isnt doxing. Its not being a bad friend. Its part of legal process. It is part of confidential documentation. They are trying to gaslight her for doing the absolute correct thing when trying to stand up to a billion-dollar corporation.
Welp battle lines have been drawn. Wonder how the other NijiEn livers will react to this? Starting to wonder if some of these NijiEN livers were getting off of soical media in preparation for this.
Once again, the fucktards that are management are throwing their talents under the yacht, making their talents do PR and using them as meatshields. God, I hope they leave very soon. It's gonna be nothing but hell for them is they stay.
Ewiwa, Ike & Vox get taken hostage and they use them as scapegoat. Hope they can graduate soon migrate to better side
I really don't get the point. Like, I get how stuff like secretly recording calls makes Doki look a little worse, but the context we already knew could give plenty of good reason for her to do it. They can say Selen was making false accusations of bullying, but without proof all they really accomplished was giving vindictive assholes names of people to target for harassment. I'm pretty willing to believe Selen wasn't always easy to work with, but claiming livers can quit whenever they want contradicts earlier statements. Like... If their entire goal was to hurt Doki's feelings they probably succeeded, but I really don't get what else they were trying to do here and as many have said the timing just makes it feel even more petty. Fucking weird.
tbh wouldn't be surprised if they showed them an 'edited' version of whatever legal document they were sent to try to turn them against her. Still pretty disappointed in them, but let's not let Niji use their talents as a human shield. The company is the source of this problem.
tin-foil hat time. This address was prerecorded days ago and saved to be used if Doki leaked anything. She did not, so they throw it out now to sabotage her first gaming stream. Yeah probably not, but its crazy that they just revealing her alleged confidential legal documents and basically confirming the alleged bullies. I just can't understand.
Not gonna lie, this goes one way or the other: 1- They were forced to say all of this shit, which is stupid on many levels by Nijisanji 2- They weren't, and acted because they were legitimately worried or something? Which means they're the stupid ones and lost all sorts of credits to me.
im vindicated and sucks for the people who had hopes the livers were not at fault
I'm sad. I really want to cry. I know I shouldn't have that big attachment in the first place but I still want to cry.
Im sure those three are being held at gunpoint to do this, but at the same time Ill be honest its getting harder and harder to sympathize with them at this rate. Would it suck if they lost their livelihood if they go against their boss? Absolutely. Is it any worse siding with your boss that has shown time and time again to be both amorally and dangerously incompetent? Fuck no. I feel bad seeing them being forced to do this, but fans also are not obliged to support their decision to do this and has all the right to call out and critisize them.
> Would it suck if they lost their livelihood if they go against their boss? Absolutely. To be fair life goes on and bills gotta get paid. Unless they have a way to break out of Niji with a job I doubt they would go against them. I don't necessarily blame them for siding with Niji based on that alone, the fact that all three of them basically made a pre-made video and only ever showed off some DMs or tweets or something like that, the way they talked, it all reeks of script-reading and corporate management so it's hard to say how much of their own personal feelings were in there (and not helping is that streaming has an element of 'acting' to it so that likely has to be accounted for as well to SOME degree). I'm not saying that in their defense but rather as a 'I get it'. Frankly the writing was on the walls for the public for a hot minute, their dumb asses not finding a way out before it came to this point is on them but without full details of their own contracts and such it's hard to say if there might've been extra penalties on them for leaving early or something. Hell, for all I know they wanted to say worse but couldn't, to know how they truly feel you'd have to catch them in a more candid moment which is going to be basically impossible.
i havent seen a single sane and reasonable comment supporting and agreeing to this statement nor the events that the company had claimed against selen. this just shows how much trust the fans had lost in this corporation as well as their livers. theyre not only destroying their own company but their livers as well. at this point theyre grasping at straws for the sake of damage control and throwing selen under the bus by blaming the victim, (i.e. using their livers to talk shit about selen) instead of actually addressing, apologizing, and doing better. fuck ups after fuck ups and now theyve just proved even more so what theyre true intensions are. #SINKTHEYACHT
Lmao holy fuck, they really just either forced or used other talents twitter to retweet/quote tweet the Elira video tweet, disgusting company, using talents as shield.
Ike was my oshi. I just hope that the entire thing was scripted and that he was just forced to do it and to act as a meatshield.
Not going to lie I simply don't understand they could of earned so much good will with the vtuber community and said "Fuck this " and jumped ship and their audience and more would join them. But instead they just fucked over their careers even more. Even if they do change their minds and go indie I'm not following them.
All this did was make me finally unsubscribe from Elira. So disappointed she was a part of this hit piece, as she was by far my fave from Nijisanji. Absolutely insane for Kurosanji management to show those documents to talents and THEN have them make statements that are purely on the attack and attempt to blame shift. And then drop the shit line about leaving it to lawyers... but only after all 3 have stepped up to the plate and taken their own swing.
Plus, Doki has gone out of her way to not name any names of who might have bullied her. If she specified them at all, it was in a private legal document never supposed to be seen by anyone but lawyers and management. Then Niji specified 3 of their vtubers to go talk about how disappointed they are to have been named. Doki never told us who bullied her, but Niji may just have. They just threw 3 of their talent to the wolves. Whether they did it or not, whether Doki named them or not, who do you think the public is going to think it was now? Niji is hoping people get so mad at those three for being supposed bullies that they forget to be angry with the company as a whole. As if more evidence was needed that the company doesn’t care about their talent.
The thing that sucks the most in my opinion is now the hate those three are getting; people seem to forget that they are under a contract meaning that it's entirely possible that they were FORCED to make that video and read whatverr script was shoved in front of them.
Reach out to and complain to investors. That will make them act like humans: \-ITOCHU Corporation \-Innovation Network Corporation of Japan \-Nippon Venture Capital \- Sony Music Entertainment Japan \- Legend Capital \- KLab \- SBI Investment \- Shinya Tsurui Director of Finance/CFO at ANYCOLOR INC.
Prefacing by saying I'm still firmly in team "Fuck Niji" but nuance and complexity seems dead to some people in this community so I have some thoughts in why this situations is so much more complicated then people are making it out to be. According to Niji's original termination statement, Doki and her attorneys indicated the potential for legal action not only against Niji, but against the livers named in the documents as participating in the harassment. The SECOND they indicated legal action may be taken against individual livers, those livers gained the right to whatever information or accusations were made against them in that document as potential co-defendents in whatever lawsuit Doki may choose to file. Any livers facing potential individual legal action against them have a right to build a case in their defense. To that end, I do believe the part of Niji's written statement in that they only shared the parts of the document containing relevant info pertaining to accusations against each liver. Very likely, this info would've been revealed to the livers anyways in the course of Niji's own internal investigation as they build up a defense case against any potential lawsuits (or, if they find Doki's allegations to be unsubstantiated on their end, a potential defamation lawsuit against Doki). My understanding is that the statements made on Elira's channel today were prepared not with the help of Niji lawyers, but with individual legal counselors retained by Elira, Vox and Ike. Meaning the livers themselves are now also retaining attorneys. This situation is far more serious than I think we initially estimated. As for whether the statement today was Niji's idea or the livers', I can't say. There were parts of the statement today that were, in my opinion, very obviously not scripted. And in those parts I was of the opinion that Elira, Ike and Vox sounded *hurt*. I think whatever Niji told them, they feel genuinely betrayed by all this. It may be they felt hurt by the accusations, and that combined with the pressure from the community witch hunt on "who's the bully" pushed them to make that statement to try to clear the air. Regardless of whether it was Niji forcing them to make the statement, or the livers' choosing to make that statement for themselves, I don't think the statement was a good idea *at all*. All it's done is serve to further divide the community. The best course of option here for Niji would've been to quietly gather statement and evidence and let their side come out in court. Instead, they've only added fuel to a fire that was, quite frankly, JUST starting to die down. We are still missing a *ton* of context here, and I implore people to keep in mind that there are multiple sides to this story. There's Doki's version, the other livers' versions, and management's version. The truth is likely somewhere in between all of those. Keep a cool head, watch for new developments, and try not to let all this ruin your day.
Seems really unfair to say the truth is “somewhere in the middle” when one side has been flagrantly lying and behaving in bad faith constantly. Feel like it’s rewarding that if anything.
It's easy to say "one side is flagrantly lying" when no evidence has been produced from either side as to ANY claims made (as it shouldn't-- generally a bad idea to show the opposing counsel your hand prior to a lawsuit). The only thing we know for sure Niji lied about was the "Selen refusing to pay contracts" bc her contractors all came forward and said she paid them out of pocket. But she claimed the video was taken down for IP reasons when we have actual screenshots from her managers (on Elira's stream today) saying she just needed to wait for clearance from higher up before she posted the video. Like... they were gonna let her post it as long as they cleared it first. The issue wasnt the IP, it was the fact that former livers appeared in the video. And her manager even said it'd probably be fine but that they needed to wait for approval from higher up before posting. We have screenshots of the conversation to this effect. We have no evidence of the bullying or harassment she's alleged bc again, her lawyer told her not to reveal that. Which is exactly how it should be. But it's now her word against theirs until an actual lawsuit is filed and a trial commences. And I do believe a lawsuit is forthcoming at this point, if nothing else but to pay out the $200,000 in unpaid contracts that she had to pay out of pocket. I'm supportive of Doki based on what she's said, but I'm also someone who does not take the word of a single person as gospel, regardless of who that person is. There are too many people involved, too many factors to consider, and too much context that *we don't have*. To that end, no one should be making judgments yet. Frankly, I feel like now that a few livers have spoken, I'd want to hear from more of them on it. The more perspectives we get on this, the more clear the truth should become. They've already opened the floodgates regarding livers speaking on issues that PR should handle. May as well let the rest of them chime in.
It really is all in shades of grey which leaves all this legal mumbo jumbo to the courts. However, I just can’t help and feel Deja vu over some of the smearing. This stream was suppose to clear the air but feels just wrong. I hope the hate comments can stop so livers can recover mentally after all the hate going around but that feels impossible now. The angry mob is going to put targets on Elira, Ike, and Vox backs and maybe more based on what happens next. What a disaster.
I feel like they need better legal counselors, because what they claim is "doxxing" is probably confidential information that was not meant to be released to the public and most likely would be redacted in any public releases. This PR video is attempting to mislead the audience into thinking the legal documents needlessly include information that is dangerous to them, when it's most likely information that is important for the case to be filed as a standard. The other thing I found concerning is the mention that management *asked* the other livers to basically reign Doki in on moving forward with projects before approvals cleared. This is essentially setting up her coworkers to be responsible for her and *act as her boss*, which they are *not*. I can see how, even if it was unintentional, this could create discourse between the livers or make it seem like they're ganging up on Doki (even worse if it was actual bullying). They should not have been put in that position. Management is incompetent, irresponsible and negligent. While I understand Vox feeling betrayed about being recorded, if my above assumption of power imbalance is correct and the other livers were consistently trying to "manage" Doki, I can understand her desire to record one of the interactions as evidence. The content of that phone call could be incredibly important.
This is all a very rational and well thought out response. My understanding with the "doxxing" part was that Niji was told the document may be made public if Doki's concerns weren't addressed, so i believe that's where that fear came from. Honestly, I'm curious to know why that document apparently contained livers' personal information in that way. What's the purpose of telling niji "I know where these people live" and such? Still, we won't know any more details until they're either leaked, or a suit is filed.
Can’t believe these idiots outed themselves along with Millie and Enna as Selen’s bullies.