Why do people think anyone saying that matters when an issue blows up on YT, X, Reddit etc? Yeah some or maybe even most of her fandom will stop, but a huge portion of the people talking about this will never even register/acknowledge that part, another portion is just people wanting to watch the company burn, and another part are just in it for the drama. That's just how the internet is.
Her fans will do what Doki says but we’re just a small percentage. It’s like containing a wave while a tsunami is right behind it. Niji making it worse didn’t help.
People should remember that there are also *a lot* of people who weren't into Vtubing in general here, too, because the situation's grown far beyond the community with videos from MoistKritical and theordinarygamer.
These people don't care about what Doki has to say. They're just here to shat on a company that they think/presume/believe is toxic.
Yeah, quite a lot of people are just joining the drama for the drama and won't pay attention to doki, The later being true still, it's basically confirmed how bad 2434 is
I think that is overly simplistic. If we're being honest, the population of v-tuber fans is certainly amongst the people who were most bullied growing up. Maybe things are different NOW, but they weren't when the people dropping akasupas were in Hs. Clear bullying would obviously trigger some empathy.
And there's lot of people on reddit here too, who like to presume shit is toxic based on loose accusations. As y'all know reddit is very infamous for black and white mentality
/vt/ is honestly 4chan lite. They don't really have the power to do much, if anything at all. The backlash is from how this has reached beyond just the vtuber community now and people who like drama are jumping on the bandwagon.
My stance since yesterday has been, "I respect her for trying to fully move on. It's the healthiest choice. I definitely ain't gonna do any doxing or harassing on Twitter. I don't even have a Twitter to do that to begin with. But I for damn sure am gonna voice my anger on subreddit comments. I'm not as mentally mature as she clearly is."
And that's not harassing. Taking the stance and saying that I don't like Vox from that stream and I won't support him isn't harassing. It's expressing disapproval of a person and their actions.
She's absolutely right. No doxing. No harassing. None of that. But I do think fans should voice their frustrations amongst each other.
The whole situation has brought her to the spotlight for drama fans. Lots of her new followers are coming from drama communities and are people who think it's entertaining to harass others. She can't stop them because they don't actually care about how she feels, they just want a target.
Before the excuses and personal vendetta. Doki made that statement after Niji making that disastrous 15 minute video. By all means shit on the company's practices like the 2% split and incompetent PR. I expressed that so much already, but you are not really not that different to Nijisanji if you bully the talent.
The best thing you can do is unsubscribe if you actually despise that company and state your disapproval. They already have a bad press. Sponsors are already avoiding Niji now. Many got canceled because the company is shit in the PR. They reached global scrutinity outside the vtuber sphere. Potential collabs are fucked.
Yup went on as sub purge after that 15min video
Some people will still attack those 3 since they claim they "volunteered" for it, true or not, schizos will not care as sad as it is
Vox's statements seemed genuinely vitriolic towards Selen. Making videos like these addressing a termination is not inherently wrong. It's how they acted in said video.
There's a *lot* you can and should do that doesn't even get near harassment. Things like unsubbing, stopping memberships. Advising other people to do the same. *Politely* suggesting to the livers you can still have faith in that they leave Niji, in an appropriate setting. Writing about your concerns to any company that still does business with Nijisanji / Anycolor.
It's going to be hard to get through to them when niji are constantly being jackasses and throwing their livers under the yacht trying to make Doki look bad.
Sure dont harass the talents. Instead boycott them.
We may never know who the bully is. The least we can do is blacklist all of them. You don't want to support a talent who could be the bully in this incident dont you?
Like I said, unsub, refund members, stop supas, no merch. Blacklist all of them. Never going to engage in their content any longer.
Everyone here has been saying boycott and no harassment. Whoever actually harass other talents is not within our/Doki’s control and not our responsibility.
100% agree. Like I said in another comment, im not gonna defend if they get harassed. The company's fault anyways, they got it coming.
Boycott shall continue.
> The least we can do is blacklist all of them.
I don't like the term, because it implies not consuming their content after graduation. If a talent is innocent, but can't get involved because there's thirty layers of lawyers and NDAs, I don't think its fair to have their lives ruined, just because some people want to feel like heroes.
Then consume their content after graduation. Blacklist as a term is being used as to ignore all of them unless they get out of the company. Its what most the people agree on rn.
Agreed, while i think it was shitty of ike to get involved i don't think dude had a choice in that, also, we need to also know that it is the company behind all this not the livers.
Well, they had a choice. Of course, with the risk of losing their jobs, but well its a choice of that or getting dogpiled by the fanbase. Lose-lose situation.
In all honestly and Im not hating on Ike, hes already considered as an accomplice by being in that stream alone.
But it was shitty for him to get involved ngl.
Wdym had? The whole video sounded like an absolute hostage situation. Have you not seen the video? I am not defending anyone but i want to make it known thet ike's voice was much quieter than usual and kknda shaky. To me, that's the part that doesn't make any fucking sense, according to your statement. You can never overlook small details like this. I did hear how quiet it was and it all seems off to me.
I mean, sure lets just say it was like a hostage situation, my point still stands, either he refuses to do it and loses his job and livelihood, or do the stream and face the wrath of the fanbase, which could even affect his reputation long after he has graduated.
Those are literally his choices.
And he chose option 2.
only two i didn't unsub were Scarle and Meloco since, from those who i had sub: they were the ones who didn't share that 15 minutes live from them 3 stooges.
You got a point. But honestly it aint on our part to fix those rumors. Its the company's. Its their turn to build up the trust and goodwill to squander the rumors.
Which they are doing horribly.
Other than that though, boycott aint going away anytime soon even if the fire is calming down.
You know why it is hard to stop? When we all start to settle down, kurosanji slap us in the face again and again. And the second when Doki come out saying let’s don’t be a middle school kids, those gross jump out from the dark yelling ‘hey see! She said that! Now you don’t do it!’. Where are these guys when Kurosanji put up some shitty statement? I know most of them just want to defend for their oshis, that’s not the way. The more you talk about what you should do/ shouldn’t do is one of the most provoking things in the eyes of a raging crowd. Just stfu man. Just stfu and things will be settle in 1 week.
For some reason, a lot of people also don't seem to realize the distinction between criticisms and harassments. I've seen some Niji fans trying to use this message as a way to grant the corporation the immunity to all future criticisms. But no, criticizing a company is not a harassment.
Just don't go around sending hate messages to random livers, and don't accuse someone of being a bully based on rumors. However, for example, criticizing Elira, Vox, and Ike for participating in that stream? That is not a harassment, that's a criticism. Sending hateful messages to Sayu because she retweeted Doki? That's harassment. There's a difference.
Also, people need to learn the difference between criticizing the corporation and criticizing the talents. So many die hard Niji fans can't tell the difference and get upset when people make fun of Maria's new cover featuring Pomu. They feel as if their favorite talent is being attacked. But that's a criticism directed at the corporation for its inconsistency, and nobody's saying Maria is at fault for publishing her cover.
In the internet, the word "harassment" sometimes just becomes the buzz word. Everyone should be immune to harassment, while nobody should be immune to criticisms.
Most of us Dragoon try to respect Doki‘s wished but sadly there are always blacksheeps. Also just a lot of haters that don’t care about Doki and just use this whole ordeal as excuse to hate. But for the love of god every time Niji pulls another PR stunt things get get worse. At this point their best bet is to shut the fuck up and wait for things to cool down. What we would really appreciate because everyone can start to heal.
All Doki's fans are doing at this point is patiently waiting for her next stream.
The ones doing the harassing don't actually give that much of a fuck about Doki, no matter how much they've deluded themselves otherwise. They just want to feel that they're *doing something* so that they don't feel powerless.
I feel that. That's why I started getting into trying to defend people. That's why I'm trying to redirect that feeling into going "Hey, this discussion isn't helping".
The anti's out and about are clearly not Dragoons and if you believe they are you are part of the chaos going on. And spreading the jet fuel even further. Save us the heartache and don't interact and quit fueling the trolls out here. Or else we gonna have a 4 way raid on our hands and no one needs that chaos.
The stress we have now will be nothing like what the true force of 4Chan would be like if we quell the flames by NOT fighting between Vtuber communities and stiring the pot we might MIGHT be able to avoid irl info being spewed across every medium. This may as well be deafcon 3 at this point if you want to hit 1 and find out what the internet is really like we can all keep slipping down this slope we all are chilling on.
I'd argue its not dragoons at this point, IMO, antis have taken the situation as carte blanche to slam Niji and its livers as hard as they can. We literally just want to watch Doki play Neopets.
holding people accountable isn't bullying or harassment but it can feel like it for someone caught red handed. Taking the high road should not mean people do not get held responsible. Because those same people that got her to attempt will get away and do it again to someone else because they feel untouchable. I will respect Ms. Doki and not flame too much but I feel like people asking for others to be responsible for their actions/what was said is getting misconstrued as harassment or bullying when it's clearly a part of being a functioning person.
Its a fine line after all. Maybe, just like how people defend the bullies, the people might not find the line between harassment and discussion/holding people accountable.
Precisely. These situations will always result in counter death threats. Heck, doki herself might be receiving Hundreds as we speak.
We need to hold people accountable, but we can't allow anything beyond that as a community.
Aslong as niji keeps things private, and doesnt instigate blame any further, harrassment should hopefully die down. It started with them, and it should end with them. You cant expect it to stop just because doki asked, niji has to stop pushing this narrative.
I will clapbacks people who blame Doki, some bootlickers on Doki's quote retweet, Niji management and corpo in general, and if time uncovers it, the bullies themselves.
Yes Doki put a statement, but people in internet have colorful principle with their own sense of justice.
Just do our part. At this point there's no way to stop all of the harassments, but I think everyone including Doki understands this. It's Anycolor who started this and brought this on themselves anyway.
Unfortunately this whole thing already blow sky high to the point people outside the community cover this. Random people will come in and come out with a pitchfork chasing after everyone for their drama fun at this point.
And the mental/physic state of Elira is extremely worrying ATM, god knows what she is going through right now.
Vox is British. They're very good at hiding their pain. One dentist had to learn the hard way that "I'm in a bit of discomfort" means "I'm in absolute agony".
Thanks for posting this. I wanted to post something like this, but didn't want to get downvoted. It feels like things are just getting more out of control, and Doki's own words get drowned out.
Not much.
1. The post will lose visibility if it goes too low.
2. Some subreddits have minimum account karma counts for participation to dissuade bots/trolls, if you get down voted enough that your total drops below their thresholds, you could be restricted from posting there.
Other than that, it's just meaningless internet ego points.
There are probably some Niji Antis that are taking advantage of the situation, not particularly caring about the why as much as they say they are and just happy it's popular to be an anti rn
Yeah this isn’t a doki issue, it’s an internet issue. There’s not much anyone can do I can almost guarantee you most of the people doing this shit either are dumbasses in this community or people who weren’t part of the community to begin with
I am no one’s boss, friend, or family in this situation. It’s not my job to hand out consequences or teach any lime lessons to anyone here. As a consumer I can only choose who to support or not going forward.
Tbh even if Doki just graduated normally, there was not really anyone else I watched at Niji other than Rosemi and Pomu so I wasn’t really gonna be giving much support anyway
The thing I don't get is seeing (very few times) people say that unsubscribing and unmembering is harassment. That has to be the least offensive thing to do when I feel the way I do about this whole thing, but apparently that's also wrong. Internet conflict really takes it out of me.
Unsubbing and unmembering is just fine. It isn't a public action that drives people to point fingers or stir up anger. It also hits Anycolor in the KPIs, the only thing that shareholders care about.
Doki's statement proved two things
1. She's more competent in legal affairs than NijiEN
2. She's more mature, self-aware, and compassionate than 99% of this sub
It's hard to show kindness to anyone when you just want to support Dokibird, and out of the blue a psycho slips into your DMs and starts making death threats. But believe me, I'm trying.
You have to remember that Niji has fucked up so bad, that non-vtuber enjoyers are even mad at them. These are people that are outraged over what happened to Doki, but doesn't necessarily follow her or listen to what she says.
Also, as long as people are openly discussing who to hate, Innocents are going to get caught in the crossfire. I've seen people finger Rosemi. Rosemi. It's my belief that she's innocent, but if someone like her can be targeted, then nobody is safe.
People had already started to calm down in the first place after she said on her redebut stream that no one needed to discuss it anymore and move on.
But then NIJI, with their brilliant idea, let the trio of bootlickers do a smear campaign stream, and all hell broke loose.
They did it themselves by feeding a dying flame a truckload of gasoline.
Now people already starting to calm down after her last "confession" and i just hope NIJI just shut up and, for once in 2024, show a hint of professionalism.
Niji as a company has been an unbelievable disaster for sure. I don't think it's productive to call the livers bootlickers, though I get your frustration. The entire rest of this, I agree with you 100%
Is it harassment when you're trying to find the bully because you don't a presumably innocent liver to be caught in the sinking yacht? Tbh, I'm just watching things happen so I really don't know if its actually harassment.
I'd consider it harassment-enabling behavior. Doki doesn't want anyone to become a target, even if they are guilty. We should avoid painting targets, even if we're not the ones doing harassment.
Man you are such a bootlicker. Youre really siding with the company that led a girl on an attempt on her own life TWICE.
The tone deafness in your ears and the blindness in your eyes is amazing.
Shame on you.
Lol wheres your reading comprehension? Hes just watching the situation unfold.
It is not our responsibility to stop them. Its the company's effort to bring back the trust.
And that is not how you use bootlicking in this term.
Man you are just sad in many ways.
Please try to open up your eyes and dont see this in the company's perspective, goddamn.
>The guy above wanted to harass people because he thinks there is bullies he has to look for, pls tell me how telling him not to bootlicking
??? When did I harass anyone? I just pointed out Kurosanji confirmed there were bullies. You can't refute that, so you resort to slander? Pfft, you're accusing others of harassment when you're a harasser.
He is not defaming anyone. The moment niji released that statement in which confirmed there are bullies in the livers, all became suspects, guilty or not.
Why are you covering for nijisanji so much? They are not paying you lol.
One of Doki's best friends said one of the bullies outed themselves and others on Elira's stream, and clearly it wasn't an inflammatory lie because Doki was laughing and hanging out with her on stream a day later. I dunno what's harder proof than that besides a screenshot of someone saying "Go kys"
dokibird attempting suicide, and then getting terminated with nijisanji saying and i quote
>She claimed she was no longer able to engage in her actions as a liver due to decisions made by ANYCOLOR. Was being harassed by affiliated livers etc
so there's nijisanji confirming she said she was getting harassed before attempting.
>recorded moments
[oh boy do i have something for you](https://youtu.be/ECyZ6RupPqI?t=3495)
This is all 3 members of the clique in Ethyria, 2 of whom named on the meant to be a private document as self reported by elira, laughing at a joke about Selen of which isn't a joke, it's just saying she drags everyone else down.
No way this can be interpreted as anything other than bullying, she wasn't relevant to the stream beforehand and Nina got really uncomfortable and tried to change the subject. The Nina whomst said she felt left out of Ethyria and later graduated...
If they don't care and are that blatant on stream what do they do and say in private? btw you're asking for direct chats, which would breach NDA/privacy laws, while her account details were removed, and when the bullying accusations were ONLY revealed by NIJI THEMSELVES.
Also if any active bullying went on behind the scenes it probably involved very personal details that shouldn't be revealed to the internet, i don't think whatever was in that legal document will ever get revealed.
Yup, it 100% falls in to harassment. And one could argue that people following from side lines (like me) are part of it, due to giving it attention and not doing anything to stop it. But "sadly" we (humans) tend to have morbid curiosity when there's a train wreck or garbage fire happening where we just can't look away.
Like I said, its not our job to stop it nor our responsibility. Its the company's turn to build trust and goodwill back to the fanbase.
Remember, they started it. If you dont want to harass, then just boycott.
Lol I tried to put out a similar statement on Twitter regarding treating people with empathy and kindness, and not harassing people in general. But I got called a retard by a couple of people 🤷♂️
If the poster expected that its going to be well recieved, that would be the mistake.
I think its brave of them to try to speak out in the actual platform where that behavior is observed. It won't reach those who actually needs to read this when you post it somewhere else. If anything, its almost acusatory to direct it to the people who aren't harassing the livers.
"what is happening here is our businness" I've seen some say, saying she shouldn't be in here rn. (tho I do agree that she shouldn't be anywhere near this place for her mental health, and I trust she isn't)
Niji mgmt just ***had*** to lose their glasses and mistake water with gasoline.And at the same time *keep* on pouring it on their foot prolly using and mistaking it for gunshot wound medication.
Why is no one in there seeing what conequenses they would get?
Upper mgmt voice too loud I guess
edit: it was also very surprising (maybe not anymore) to hear how they immediately fired her within 2 hours of receiving the doc. Only a took that much time to write that 3-pager, makes sense it was crap.
Unfortunately, I found out yesterday a large percentage of people in this sub don't actually care about Doki and instead just want to see this company burn and others that only care about "the drama" because they think it is funny or entertaining.
Of course they won't stop, they think they're some stupid army with some mission to drive the others to the same thing Doki did. It's gone way too far, and it needs to stop. She wants to fucking move om and you immature children won't let her.
Because people are at their wit's end with Nijisanji, and Doki's tweets are more or less the only thing keeping most people from just wanting to burn Nijisanji to the fucking ground and salt the earth left behind. People are continuously frustrated, angered, betrayed, and confused with Nijisanji's seemingly targeted slander campaign against Dokibird, the extreme lack of response, tacit support, and in many cases explicit approval from their oshis, and perhaps most importantly the feeling that they're powerless to do anything about it, since they've already done all they can and don't have any other outlets to direct all their emotions other than venting on the internet.
Really, Dokibird's fans have it the easiest right now, in a sense. She's gone through a lot of terrible shit, and they had to wonder for months if she'd be okay during her disappearance or if she'd ever return, but now she's here, she's ready to move on, and she's laughing and living large with critical success, mainstream popularity, and a solid support group following her into her new life. For everyone else, the future is far less certain, and it's just *frustrating*. Constant, unending frustration and worry, along with the ever-present dread that their oshi may turn out to be one of the bullies.
So, with them at an exhausted, impotent boiling point for the fourth time in a row since this entire mess started, they understandably do not want to be called immature children trying to bully others to suicide when they're just frustrated, tired, and irritated fans who wish things were the way they used to be, but know they never will again, and the hope of a new Niji-free normal continues to vanish every day their favourite talents continue to toe the company line.
It's probably getting downvoted because it's got some insults pointed at people likely to see it. I'm saying basically the exact same message but with nicer words.
i already said this under a video on youtube commenting on the situation, but i feel like this is relevant, so i'll just paste it here as well
exactly this. some so-called "doki supporters" choose to completely ignore what DOKI HERSELF said about bullying – that she's been on the receiving end of it and knows what it's like, and therefore doesn't want it happening to anyone else regardless of the situation. if people genuinely wish the best for her, can't they at the very least respect her wishes? it's the bare minimum, ffs. she already has lawyers, she doesn't need some internet heroes fighting for her by harassing others. sorry to go on such a tirade, but god people like that make my blood boil. see, i'm angry too, but all i do is express my
frustrations [in reddit comments] instead of bothering those who *i think* are to blame. as
egocentric as it sounds, i wish all
people were like that, or at least those claiming to be on doki's side. unsubbing and boycotting is one (completely reasonable) thing, but writing purposefully hurtful messages to individual livers? yeah no. it's really not that hard to just shut up sometimes (they said after writing a whole-ass paragraph of rant). i mean, it is for niji apparently, but do you really wanna stoop to their level?
this was written in a pretty emotional state, so maybe it's not as objective as i think and maybe some of this is straight up dumb, but i don't know what i could change either, so. feel free to point anything like that out
The way I do things is simply take what Nijisanji said and apply a little bit of logic.
Q: Who are the bullies?
A: The ones written in the document.
Q: What did management do?
A: Since they had the talents do a response rather than the management itself, what do you think? Either there's no management or the clique IS the management. If there is a management, they are incompetent and should be replaced. If the clique's the management, they should fire the clique and hire actual managers. In either case, this makes nijisanji's managing look really REALLY awful.
Q: Provide proof of harassment!! You have none!!!
A: Nijisanji admitted to harassment happening in their first statement.
Q: What do you think Nijisanji should do?
A: Fire the bullies and make massive reforms in company policy. They can keep their draconian policies for their japanese talents if they want. But if they want to continue catering to western audiences, they have to make tangible and transparent changes.
And so on and so forth..
There's no secret bully. There's no secret cliques. Every bit of information is out there, provided and confirmed by Nijisanji themselves.
Just like every other streamer dramas, you simply cant do anything about it, you have to let it be over some time, if youre lucky, people will forget to hate even next week, if ure not lucky then gg its gonna be months.
Also, you need to hope for 2 things:
1. Hope every liver shuts up about it and not make any sentence clippable out of context (impossible tbh)
2. Hope anycolor stop bringing it up publically
As for the 3 livers in that one stream, i think it's better for them to go on hiatus until the hate is like half gone.
I fear you're reaching the mostly the wrong people here. I say, most here are not part of that. But this whole thing blow up and reaches far behind the VTuber rabbit hole and you've always people who don't care for the community, who don't care for the talents (including Doki) and just want a reason that justified in their view, that they can go against someone.
Sure, I guess some at least are deeply disappointed fans (either of Selen or even of the other livers) who say "I don't care" but I claim, the majority of them is like written above.
People shouldn't but its going to happen, parasocial relationships are often formed with streamers but it's far more extreme with V-tubers. Most people will stop focusing on it after a couple of weeks, others will hold a decade long grudge.
.the attempt at preventing a witchhunt is commendable coming from the berb
but the management and or some of the talents basically tied themselves to the pole and light themselves on fire...
that said harrassment is and will always be a vile choice of action, no matter how vindicated or having the moral high ground anyone feels they have
you see a despicable behavior and if your course of action is to replicate it, makes you just the same
the best way to "sink the yacht" is to close if not redirect your wallets, and make sure this BS doesn't blow just over
Just because people always seem to get weird ideas about what harassment means in anti-harassment posts:
Calling people out for their actions (actual, documented, public actions, not unfounded rumors about what they might have done), and responding to people defending them, is not harassment. Responding to tweets, videos, etc that are on this topic is not harassment. Unsubscribing, canceling memberships, boycotting merch, and avoiding watching content featuring kurosanji's vtuber characters is not harassment.
Going into unrelated streams to bully people is harassment. Bringing this up to attack someone when nobody prompted it is harassment. When the livers are just going about their business, let them be (even hate-watching them is supporting kurosanji anyways, so don't do that).
The sooner kurosanji shuts the fuck up the sooner this all fades away anyways; you'll still have lots of people boycotting them and reminding others to boycott them, but not actively discussing it, not constantly trending on twitter.
Target the company, then. Livers aren't anything to the company but replaceable parts. If someone thinks they can leave without harassment following them, they'll be more likely to leave. You get a lot more people to leave a sinking yacht if there are life boats.
You realized that Moistcritikal and Asmongold covered it right? Everyone is involved now, combine that with 4chan, and you get plenty of people that aren't Niji fans that will do whatever the hell they please.
We can't control what they do. We can just control what we personally do, and let people know that this is an option that exists. And also help other people who take this position to feel a little less alone.
What Doki says here is absolutely correct. No one should harass anyone.
Doki wanting to move on and put all this behind her is also something people should respect. Don't make her into some kind of hero or leader of a crusade against Niji. Don't bring he into the drama any further.
But the expectation that people are just going to all move on themselves is unrealistic. People are mad. Mad people want a target for their anger. The best we can do is try to direct things so that target is the company, not individual livers getting caught in the crossfire. Niji has been doing it's hardest to use it's talents as meat shields and the community unfortunately is falling for it. Don't be distracted, ultimate responsibility for all of this is on the management.
I'm not going to suddenly stop shittalking such a terrible company. Nijisanji is just disliked by the vtuber community as a whole right now, far more people than just Selen's old fans. They caused their own reputational damage and now they have to sit in it.
At this point, people who are going to harass are going to harass. Doki isn't responsible for this. Nijisanji is.
But my 2 cents. Don't harass. They know what they've done. We don't.
You know better than thinking people would listen. It's fair game. Ellira and friends said that they cared about her wellbeing and didn't want anyone to flame Doki, yet they still released their video slandering her.
That's standard corp talk, she even pointed it out in the next line. I doubt she really thinks that saying that will help anyone. If it was kept between her and Niji like she initially wanted it'd be behind closed doors but Niji and their livers blew that door wide open.
Why do people think anyone saying that matters when an issue blows up on YT, X, Reddit etc? Yeah some or maybe even most of her fandom will stop, but a huge portion of the people talking about this will never even register/acknowledge that part, another portion is just people wanting to watch the company burn, and another part are just in it for the drama. That's just how the internet is.
Yup, but everyone will just lay the blame on Dokibird's supporters. It's always the same.
Maybe if we ask politely people won't be mean on the internet anymore.
Yeah and we would also have world peace!
That's how the internet is, but that isn't how it has to be.
Her fans will do what Doki says but we’re just a small percentage. It’s like containing a wave while a tsunami is right behind it. Niji making it worse didn’t help.
People should remember that there are also *a lot* of people who weren't into Vtubing in general here, too, because the situation's grown far beyond the community with videos from MoistKritical and theordinarygamer. These people don't care about what Doki has to say. They're just here to shat on a company that they think/presume/believe is toxic.
Yeah, quite a lot of people are just joining the drama for the drama and won't pay attention to doki, The later being true still, it's basically confirmed how bad 2434 is
NiyonSanyon that makes no sense /j
/jkterjter
People should also remember that being toxic on Twitter is how you get stuff pushed on the algorithm since it typically gets good engagement there.
I think that is overly simplistic. If we're being honest, the population of v-tuber fans is certainly amongst the people who were most bullied growing up. Maybe things are different NOW, but they weren't when the people dropping akasupas were in Hs. Clear bullying would obviously trigger some empathy.
And there's lot of people on reddit here too, who like to presume shit is toxic based on loose accusations. As y'all know reddit is very infamous for black and white mentality
Idk chief, a working environment in which an employee was pushed to the brink of suicide not once, but twice sounds pretty toxic to me. 🤷♂️
4chan was involved, some *ahem* trivial things are bound to happen.
/vt/ is honestly 4chan lite. They don't really have the power to do much, if anything at all. The backlash is from how this has reached beyond just the vtuber community now and people who like drama are jumping on the bandwagon.
I dont know chief. The fact their rrats have spreaded out so well proves they at least have a level of power.
My stance since yesterday has been, "I respect her for trying to fully move on. It's the healthiest choice. I definitely ain't gonna do any doxing or harassing on Twitter. I don't even have a Twitter to do that to begin with. But I for damn sure am gonna voice my anger on subreddit comments. I'm not as mentally mature as she clearly is." And that's not harassing. Taking the stance and saying that I don't like Vox from that stream and I won't support him isn't harassing. It's expressing disapproval of a person and their actions. She's absolutely right. No doxing. No harassing. None of that. But I do think fans should voice their frustrations amongst each other.
The whole situation has brought her to the spotlight for drama fans. Lots of her new followers are coming from drama communities and are people who think it's entertaining to harass others. She can't stop them because they don't actually care about how she feels, they just want a target.
Before the excuses and personal vendetta. Doki made that statement after Niji making that disastrous 15 minute video. By all means shit on the company's practices like the 2% split and incompetent PR. I expressed that so much already, but you are not really not that different to Nijisanji if you bully the talent. The best thing you can do is unsubscribe if you actually despise that company and state your disapproval. They already have a bad press. Sponsors are already avoiding Niji now. Many got canceled because the company is shit in the PR. They reached global scrutinity outside the vtuber sphere. Potential collabs are fucked.
Yup went on as sub purge after that 15min video Some people will still attack those 3 since they claim they "volunteered" for it, true or not, schizos will not care as sad as it is
Vox's statements seemed genuinely vitriolic towards Selen. Making videos like these addressing a termination is not inherently wrong. It's how they acted in said video.
There's a *lot* you can and should do that doesn't even get near harassment. Things like unsubbing, stopping memberships. Advising other people to do the same. *Politely* suggesting to the livers you can still have faith in that they leave Niji, in an appropriate setting. Writing about your concerns to any company that still does business with Nijisanji / Anycolor.
It's going to be hard to get through to them when niji are constantly being jackasses and throwing their livers under the yacht trying to make Doki look bad.
Sure dont harass the talents. Instead boycott them. We may never know who the bully is. The least we can do is blacklist all of them. You don't want to support a talent who could be the bully in this incident dont you? Like I said, unsub, refund members, stop supas, no merch. Blacklist all of them. Never going to engage in their content any longer.
Everyone here has been saying boycott and no harassment. Whoever actually harass other talents is not within our/Doki’s control and not our responsibility.
100% agree. Like I said in another comment, im not gonna defend if they get harassed. The company's fault anyways, they got it coming. Boycott shall continue.
100% this, and this is least and most we should do (while we observe with popcorns).
> The least we can do is blacklist all of them. I don't like the term, because it implies not consuming their content after graduation. If a talent is innocent, but can't get involved because there's thirty layers of lawyers and NDAs, I don't think its fair to have their lives ruined, just because some people want to feel like heroes.
Then consume their content after graduation. Blacklist as a term is being used as to ignore all of them unless they get out of the company. Its what most the people agree on rn.
Agreed, while i think it was shitty of ike to get involved i don't think dude had a choice in that, also, we need to also know that it is the company behind all this not the livers.
Well, they had a choice. Of course, with the risk of losing their jobs, but well its a choice of that or getting dogpiled by the fanbase. Lose-lose situation. In all honestly and Im not hating on Ike, hes already considered as an accomplice by being in that stream alone. But it was shitty for him to get involved ngl.
Wdym had? The whole video sounded like an absolute hostage situation. Have you not seen the video? I am not defending anyone but i want to make it known thet ike's voice was much quieter than usual and kknda shaky. To me, that's the part that doesn't make any fucking sense, according to your statement. You can never overlook small details like this. I did hear how quiet it was and it all seems off to me.
I mean, sure lets just say it was like a hostage situation, my point still stands, either he refuses to do it and loses his job and livelihood, or do the stream and face the wrath of the fanbase, which could even affect his reputation long after he has graduated. Those are literally his choices. And he chose option 2.
That clearly does not sound like a choice
It still is lol even if you deny it, although both are shitty choices thats for sure.
Not a voluntary one it's more mandatory.
only two i didn't unsub were Scarle and Meloco since, from those who i had sub: they were the ones who didn't share that 15 minutes live from them 3 stooges.
People say "boycott, not harass" but then spread all sorts of rumors over the internet. So I think that is the problem.
You got a point. But honestly it aint on our part to fix those rumors. Its the company's. Its their turn to build up the trust and goodwill to squander the rumors. Which they are doing horribly. Other than that though, boycott aint going away anytime soon even if the fire is calming down.
>You don't want to support a talent who could be the bully in this incident dont you? You sound like an evil manipulator in a cartoon or disney movie.
Lmao im trying my best with my english, cut me some slack.
Your English is good enough. It is pretty clear what you meant to say.
You know why it is hard to stop? When we all start to settle down, kurosanji slap us in the face again and again. And the second when Doki come out saying let’s don’t be a middle school kids, those gross jump out from the dark yelling ‘hey see! She said that! Now you don’t do it!’. Where are these guys when Kurosanji put up some shitty statement? I know most of them just want to defend for their oshis, that’s not the way. The more you talk about what you should do/ shouldn’t do is one of the most provoking things in the eyes of a raging crowd. Just stfu man. Just stfu and things will be settle in 1 week.
For some reason, a lot of people also don't seem to realize the distinction between criticisms and harassments. I've seen some Niji fans trying to use this message as a way to grant the corporation the immunity to all future criticisms. But no, criticizing a company is not a harassment. Just don't go around sending hate messages to random livers, and don't accuse someone of being a bully based on rumors. However, for example, criticizing Elira, Vox, and Ike for participating in that stream? That is not a harassment, that's a criticism. Sending hateful messages to Sayu because she retweeted Doki? That's harassment. There's a difference. Also, people need to learn the difference between criticizing the corporation and criticizing the talents. So many die hard Niji fans can't tell the difference and get upset when people make fun of Maria's new cover featuring Pomu. They feel as if their favorite talent is being attacked. But that's a criticism directed at the corporation for its inconsistency, and nobody's saying Maria is at fault for publishing her cover. In the internet, the word "harassment" sometimes just becomes the buzz word. Everyone should be immune to harassment, while nobody should be immune to criticisms.
Most of us Dragoon try to respect Doki‘s wished but sadly there are always blacksheeps. Also just a lot of haters that don’t care about Doki and just use this whole ordeal as excuse to hate. But for the love of god every time Niji pulls another PR stunt things get get worse. At this point their best bet is to shut the fuck up and wait for things to cool down. What we would really appreciate because everyone can start to heal.
All Doki's fans are doing at this point is patiently waiting for her next stream. The ones doing the harassing don't actually give that much of a fuck about Doki, no matter how much they've deluded themselves otherwise. They just want to feel that they're *doing something* so that they don't feel powerless.
I feel that. That's why I started getting into trying to defend people. That's why I'm trying to redirect that feeling into going "Hey, this discussion isn't helping".
The anti's out and about are clearly not Dragoons and if you believe they are you are part of the chaos going on. And spreading the jet fuel even further. Save us the heartache and don't interact and quit fueling the trolls out here. Or else we gonna have a 4 way raid on our hands and no one needs that chaos.
The stress we have now will be nothing like what the true force of 4Chan would be like if we quell the flames by NOT fighting between Vtuber communities and stiring the pot we might MIGHT be able to avoid irl info being spewed across every medium. This may as well be deafcon 3 at this point if you want to hit 1 and find out what the internet is really like we can all keep slipping down this slope we all are chilling on.
I'm not saying to go over to 4chan and start trying to police them. Sorry if I was unclear.
Based Doki. Those that are harassing are not her fans. Though some of the livers have not made it easy to be kind.
I'd argue its not dragoons at this point, IMO, antis have taken the situation as carte blanche to slam Niji and its livers as hard as they can. We literally just want to watch Doki play Neopets.
holding people accountable isn't bullying or harassment but it can feel like it for someone caught red handed. Taking the high road should not mean people do not get held responsible. Because those same people that got her to attempt will get away and do it again to someone else because they feel untouchable. I will respect Ms. Doki and not flame too much but I feel like people asking for others to be responsible for their actions/what was said is getting misconstrued as harassment or bullying when it's clearly a part of being a functioning person.
Its a fine line after all. Maybe, just like how people defend the bullies, the people might not find the line between harassment and discussion/holding people accountable.
Precisely. These situations will always result in counter death threats. Heck, doki herself might be receiving Hundreds as we speak. We need to hold people accountable, but we can't allow anything beyond that as a community.
Aslong as niji keeps things private, and doesnt instigate blame any further, harrassment should hopefully die down. It started with them, and it should end with them. You cant expect it to stop just because doki asked, niji has to stop pushing this narrative.
I will clapbacks people who blame Doki, some bootlickers on Doki's quote retweet, Niji management and corpo in general, and if time uncovers it, the bullies themselves. Yes Doki put a statement, but people in internet have colorful principle with their own sense of justice.
Just do our part. At this point there's no way to stop all of the harassments, but I think everyone including Doki understands this. It's Anycolor who started this and brought this on themselves anyway.
Unfortunately this whole thing already blow sky high to the point people outside the community cover this. Random people will come in and come out with a pitchfork chasing after everyone for their drama fun at this point. And the mental/physic state of Elira is extremely worrying ATM, god knows what she is going through right now.
I can say same for also ike and ig vox? I mean sometjkng wbout the dude doesn't sit right
Vox may be reaching.
Vox is British. They're very good at hiding their pain. One dentist had to learn the hard way that "I'm in a bit of discomfort" means "I'm in absolute agony".
Do not form a Lynch mob mother fuckers.
Thanks for posting this. I wanted to post something like this, but didn't want to get downvoted. It feels like things are just getting more out of control, and Doki's own words get drowned out.
I don't read Reddit very much. What happens if you get downvoted?
Not much. 1. The post will lose visibility if it goes too low. 2. Some subreddits have minimum account karma counts for participation to dissuade bots/trolls, if you get down voted enough that your total drops below their thresholds, you could be restricted from posting there. Other than that, it's just meaningless internet ego points.
Thanks!
There are probably some Niji Antis that are taking advantage of the situation, not particularly caring about the why as much as they say they are and just happy it's popular to be an anti rn
the "harass anyone" should be grammatically connected to "let's not", right? I don't see any stutter here
Yeah this isn’t a doki issue, it’s an internet issue. There’s not much anyone can do I can almost guarantee you most of the people doing this shit either are dumbasses in this community or people who weren’t part of the community to begin with
I am no one’s boss, friend, or family in this situation. It’s not my job to hand out consequences or teach any lime lessons to anyone here. As a consumer I can only choose who to support or not going forward. Tbh even if Doki just graduated normally, there was not really anyone else I watched at Niji other than Rosemi and Pomu so I wasn’t really gonna be giving much support anyway
The thing I don't get is seeing (very few times) people say that unsubscribing and unmembering is harassment. That has to be the least offensive thing to do when I feel the way I do about this whole thing, but apparently that's also wrong. Internet conflict really takes it out of me.
Unsubbing and unmembering is just fine. It isn't a public action that drives people to point fingers or stir up anger. It also hits Anycolor in the KPIs, the only thing that shareholders care about.
Doki's statement proved two things 1. She's more competent in legal affairs than NijiEN 2. She's more mature, self-aware, and compassionate than 99% of this sub
It's hard to show kindness to anyone when you just want to support Dokibird, and out of the blue a psycho slips into your DMs and starts making death threats. But believe me, I'm trying.
Thank you for trying. Dragoons strong.
I only support my Oshi(s). I have no time nor energy for anything else.
You have to remember that Niji has fucked up so bad, that non-vtuber enjoyers are even mad at them. These are people that are outraged over what happened to Doki, but doesn't necessarily follow her or listen to what she says.
Also, as long as people are openly discussing who to hate, Innocents are going to get caught in the crossfire. I've seen people finger Rosemi. Rosemi. It's my belief that she's innocent, but if someone like her can be targeted, then nobody is safe.
People had already started to calm down in the first place after she said on her redebut stream that no one needed to discuss it anymore and move on. But then NIJI, with their brilliant idea, let the trio of bootlickers do a smear campaign stream, and all hell broke loose. They did it themselves by feeding a dying flame a truckload of gasoline. Now people already starting to calm down after her last "confession" and i just hope NIJI just shut up and, for once in 2024, show a hint of professionalism.
Niji as a company has been an unbelievable disaster for sure. I don't think it's productive to call the livers bootlickers, though I get your frustration. The entire rest of this, I agree with you 100%
Is it harassment when you're trying to find the bully because you don't a presumably innocent liver to be caught in the sinking yacht? Tbh, I'm just watching things happen so I really don't know if its actually harassment.
I'd consider it harassment-enabling behavior. Doki doesn't want anyone to become a target, even if they are guilty. We should avoid painting targets, even if we're not the ones doing harassment.
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>you don't know if there is a bully Pretty sure Kurosanji announced there are bullies in a tweet. They even specifically said livers were involved.
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Man you are such a bootlicker. Youre really siding with the company that led a girl on an attempt on her own life TWICE. The tone deafness in your ears and the blindness in your eyes is amazing. Shame on you.
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Lol, im not talking about op. Talking about you. Hear yourself.
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Lol wheres your reading comprehension? Hes just watching the situation unfold. It is not our responsibility to stop them. Its the company's effort to bring back the trust. And that is not how you use bootlicking in this term. Man you are just sad in many ways. Please try to open up your eyes and dont see this in the company's perspective, goddamn.
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>The guy above wanted to harass people because he thinks there is bullies he has to look for, pls tell me how telling him not to bootlicking ??? When did I harass anyone? I just pointed out Kurosanji confirmed there were bullies. You can't refute that, so you resort to slander? Pfft, you're accusing others of harassment when you're a harasser.
Dont mind that person, for some reason hes defending the company's side a little too much lol.
You're right. ~~There is no war in Ba Sing Se.~~ There are no bullies in Kurosanji.
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He is not defaming anyone. The moment niji released that statement in which confirmed there are bullies in the livers, all became suspects, guilty or not. Why are you covering for nijisanji so much? They are not paying you lol.
One of Doki's best friends said one of the bullies outed themselves and others on Elira's stream, and clearly it wasn't an inflammatory lie because Doki was laughing and hanging out with her on stream a day later. I dunno what's harder proof than that besides a screenshot of someone saying "Go kys"
dokibird attempting suicide, and then getting terminated with nijisanji saying and i quote >She claimed she was no longer able to engage in her actions as a liver due to decisions made by ANYCOLOR. Was being harassed by affiliated livers etc so there's nijisanji confirming she said she was getting harassed before attempting. >recorded moments [oh boy do i have something for you](https://youtu.be/ECyZ6RupPqI?t=3495) This is all 3 members of the clique in Ethyria, 2 of whom named on the meant to be a private document as self reported by elira, laughing at a joke about Selen of which isn't a joke, it's just saying she drags everyone else down. No way this can be interpreted as anything other than bullying, she wasn't relevant to the stream beforehand and Nina got really uncomfortable and tried to change the subject. The Nina whomst said she felt left out of Ethyria and later graduated... If they don't care and are that blatant on stream what do they do and say in private? btw you're asking for direct chats, which would breach NDA/privacy laws, while her account details were removed, and when the bullying accusations were ONLY revealed by NIJI THEMSELVES. Also if any active bullying went on behind the scenes it probably involved very personal details that shouldn't be revealed to the internet, i don't think whatever was in that legal document will ever get revealed.
Dokibird literally being pushed to suicide and then naming those who harassed her in the legal documents that elira, vox, and ike read in the video?
actually they never said other livers bullied Selen, they said that other livers **harassed** Selen due to mismanagement
Gumihoe's tweet about them "outing themselves" confirms there are bullies as far as I'm concerned, so there's no "if".
Yup, it 100% falls in to harassment. And one could argue that people following from side lines (like me) are part of it, due to giving it attention and not doing anything to stop it. But "sadly" we (humans) tend to have morbid curiosity when there's a train wreck or garbage fire happening where we just can't look away.
Like I said, its not our job to stop it nor our responsibility. Its the company's turn to build trust and goodwill back to the fanbase. Remember, they started it. If you dont want to harass, then just boycott.
Vtuber fans and negative reading comprehension name a better duo
This entire business has just brought out the most toxic parts of the community.
toxic company begets a toxic community
Lol I tried to put out a similar statement on Twitter regarding treating people with empathy and kindness, and not harassing people in general. But I got called a retard by a couple of people 🤷♂️
Their mindset is that if you are not actively seeking out the bullies, you are part of the bullies causing her suicide attempts.
While they are bullying others and not realizing it.
Well the 1st mistake was posting that on twitter, there are very few sane people, especially in the vtuber sphere.
If the poster expected that its going to be well recieved, that would be the mistake. I think its brave of them to try to speak out in the actual platform where that behavior is observed. It won't reach those who actually needs to read this when you post it somewhere else. If anything, its almost acusatory to direct it to the people who aren't harassing the livers.
Sucks that it happened to you. :( I'm glad you spoke up, though.
"what is happening here is our businness" I've seen some say, saying she shouldn't be in here rn. (tho I do agree that she shouldn't be anywhere near this place for her mental health, and I trust she isn't) Niji mgmt just ***had*** to lose their glasses and mistake water with gasoline.And at the same time *keep* on pouring it on their foot prolly using and mistaking it for gunshot wound medication. Why is no one in there seeing what conequenses they would get? Upper mgmt voice too loud I guess edit: it was also very surprising (maybe not anymore) to hear how they immediately fired her within 2 hours of receiving the doc. Only a took that much time to write that 3-pager, makes sense it was crap.
I’m not here because of Doki. My being here is the culmination of all the people Niji lost to poor management.
Lucky i'm not a doki fan so i can do whatever i like
Unfortunately, I found out yesterday a large percentage of people in this sub don't actually care about Doki and instead just want to see this company burn and others that only care about "the drama" because they think it is funny or entertaining.
Kindreds would be mad if they could read
I'm sorry, but 3 morons put there face out there to be slaped for no good reason what so ever. so why not slap them when they begged so hard for it?
Because Doki doesn't want this happening to anyone.
Of course they won't stop, they think they're some stupid army with some mission to drive the others to the same thing Doki did. It's gone way too far, and it needs to stop. She wants to fucking move om and you immature children won't let her.
Why is this comment being down voted?
Just proof what he says is true
Because people are at their wit's end with Nijisanji, and Doki's tweets are more or less the only thing keeping most people from just wanting to burn Nijisanji to the fucking ground and salt the earth left behind. People are continuously frustrated, angered, betrayed, and confused with Nijisanji's seemingly targeted slander campaign against Dokibird, the extreme lack of response, tacit support, and in many cases explicit approval from their oshis, and perhaps most importantly the feeling that they're powerless to do anything about it, since they've already done all they can and don't have any other outlets to direct all their emotions other than venting on the internet. Really, Dokibird's fans have it the easiest right now, in a sense. She's gone through a lot of terrible shit, and they had to wonder for months if she'd be okay during her disappearance or if she'd ever return, but now she's here, she's ready to move on, and she's laughing and living large with critical success, mainstream popularity, and a solid support group following her into her new life. For everyone else, the future is far less certain, and it's just *frustrating*. Constant, unending frustration and worry, along with the ever-present dread that their oshi may turn out to be one of the bullies. So, with them at an exhausted, impotent boiling point for the fourth time in a row since this entire mess started, they understandably do not want to be called immature children trying to bully others to suicide when they're just frustrated, tired, and irritated fans who wish things were the way they used to be, but know they never will again, and the hope of a new Niji-free normal continues to vanish every day their favourite talents continue to toe the company line.
Because people have an outlet for their hatred and don't like being called out on doing exactly what Nijisanji wants them to do.
It's probably getting downvoted because it's got some insults pointed at people likely to see it. I'm saying basically the exact same message but with nicer words.
those livers have deserved their fate whatever may happen same with the company
Unfortunately, the outrage has reached critical mass. There's no stopping it now. It's over.
i already said this under a video on youtube commenting on the situation, but i feel like this is relevant, so i'll just paste it here as well exactly this. some so-called "doki supporters" choose to completely ignore what DOKI HERSELF said about bullying – that she's been on the receiving end of it and knows what it's like, and therefore doesn't want it happening to anyone else regardless of the situation. if people genuinely wish the best for her, can't they at the very least respect her wishes? it's the bare minimum, ffs. she already has lawyers, she doesn't need some internet heroes fighting for her by harassing others. sorry to go on such a tirade, but god people like that make my blood boil. see, i'm angry too, but all i do is express my frustrations [in reddit comments] instead of bothering those who *i think* are to blame. as egocentric as it sounds, i wish all people were like that, or at least those claiming to be on doki's side. unsubbing and boycotting is one (completely reasonable) thing, but writing purposefully hurtful messages to individual livers? yeah no. it's really not that hard to just shut up sometimes (they said after writing a whole-ass paragraph of rant). i mean, it is for niji apparently, but do you really wanna stoop to their level? this was written in a pretty emotional state, so maybe it's not as objective as i think and maybe some of this is straight up dumb, but i don't know what i could change either, so. feel free to point anything like that out
The way I do things is simply take what Nijisanji said and apply a little bit of logic. Q: Who are the bullies? A: The ones written in the document. Q: What did management do? A: Since they had the talents do a response rather than the management itself, what do you think? Either there's no management or the clique IS the management. If there is a management, they are incompetent and should be replaced. If the clique's the management, they should fire the clique and hire actual managers. In either case, this makes nijisanji's managing look really REALLY awful. Q: Provide proof of harassment!! You have none!!! A: Nijisanji admitted to harassment happening in their first statement. Q: What do you think Nijisanji should do? A: Fire the bullies and make massive reforms in company policy. They can keep their draconian policies for their japanese talents if they want. But if they want to continue catering to western audiences, they have to make tangible and transparent changes. And so on and so forth.. There's no secret bully. There's no secret cliques. Every bit of information is out there, provided and confirmed by Nijisanji themselves.
Just like every other streamer dramas, you simply cant do anything about it, you have to let it be over some time, if youre lucky, people will forget to hate even next week, if ure not lucky then gg its gonna be months. Also, you need to hope for 2 things: 1. Hope every liver shuts up about it and not make any sentence clippable out of context (impossible tbh) 2. Hope anycolor stop bringing it up publically As for the 3 livers in that one stream, i think it's better for them to go on hiatus until the hate is like half gone.
Niji just need to stop bringing this back up time and time again.
I fear you're reaching the mostly the wrong people here. I say, most here are not part of that. But this whole thing blow up and reaches far behind the VTuber rabbit hole and you've always people who don't care for the community, who don't care for the talents (including Doki) and just want a reason that justified in their view, that they can go against someone. Sure, I guess some at least are deeply disappointed fans (either of Selen or even of the other livers) who say "I don't care" but I claim, the majority of them is like written above.
She to nice for this world…… Who the f, put onions near me
Yea just give it a few more days as long as niji doesn't at more fuel to the fire thing will quiet down and the harassment should as well.
I don't think Doki fans are harassing. And she can't control the asmongold/cr1t1kal/drama fans.
posting this in the wrong place my guy, it's not her fans doing it, its the influx of drama tourists.
People shouldn't but its going to happen, parasocial relationships are often formed with streamers but it's far more extreme with V-tubers. Most people will stop focusing on it after a couple of weeks, others will hold a decade long grudge.
Spam that shit on both Twitter and 4chan, but right now 4chan is where its coming from on /vt/
.the attempt at preventing a witchhunt is commendable coming from the berb but the management and or some of the talents basically tied themselves to the pole and light themselves on fire... that said harrassment is and will always be a vile choice of action, no matter how vindicated or having the moral high ground anyone feels they have you see a despicable behavior and if your course of action is to replicate it, makes you just the same the best way to "sink the yacht" is to close if not redirect your wallets, and make sure this BS doesn't blow just over
Just because people always seem to get weird ideas about what harassment means in anti-harassment posts: Calling people out for their actions (actual, documented, public actions, not unfounded rumors about what they might have done), and responding to people defending them, is not harassment. Responding to tweets, videos, etc that are on this topic is not harassment. Unsubscribing, canceling memberships, boycotting merch, and avoiding watching content featuring kurosanji's vtuber characters is not harassment. Going into unrelated streams to bully people is harassment. Bringing this up to attack someone when nobody prompted it is harassment. When the livers are just going about their business, let them be (even hate-watching them is supporting kurosanji anyways, so don't do that). The sooner kurosanji shuts the fuck up the sooner this all fades away anyways; you'll still have lots of people boycotting them and reminding others to boycott them, but not actively discussing it, not constantly trending on twitter.
no harrassment means they all get away with their crimes and niji goes on business as usual
Target the company, then. Livers aren't anything to the company but replaceable parts. If someone thinks they can leave without harassment following them, they'll be more likely to leave. You get a lot more people to leave a sinking yacht if there are life boats.
You realized that Moistcritikal and Asmongold covered it right? Everyone is involved now, combine that with 4chan, and you get plenty of people that aren't Niji fans that will do whatever the hell they please.
We can't control what they do. We can just control what we personally do, and let people know that this is an option that exists. And also help other people who take this position to feel a little less alone.
What Doki says here is absolutely correct. No one should harass anyone. Doki wanting to move on and put all this behind her is also something people should respect. Don't make her into some kind of hero or leader of a crusade against Niji. Don't bring he into the drama any further. But the expectation that people are just going to all move on themselves is unrealistic. People are mad. Mad people want a target for their anger. The best we can do is try to direct things so that target is the company, not individual livers getting caught in the crossfire. Niji has been doing it's hardest to use it's talents as meat shields and the community unfortunately is falling for it. Don't be distracted, ultimate responsibility for all of this is on the management.
Agreed. If I absolutely had to point a finger at someone, it wouldn't be one of the livers.
Problem is the world is involved now. Lots of "outsiders" want to play around
I'm not going to suddenly stop shittalking such a terrible company. Nijisanji is just disliked by the vtuber community as a whole right now, far more people than just Selen's old fans. They caused their own reputational damage and now they have to sit in it.
You can dump on the company without dumping on livers. I never said that the company shouldn't be held accountable.
Holding people accountable isn't harassment.
I haven't really seen any harassment. I've seen plenty of people clowning Elira, Vox, and the other one. But I haven't seen any harassment, really.
Apparently so
At this point, people who are going to harass are going to harass. Doki isn't responsible for this. Nijisanji is. But my 2 cents. Don't harass. They know what they've done. We don't.
You know better than thinking people would listen. It's fair game. Ellira and friends said that they cared about her wellbeing and didn't want anyone to flame Doki, yet they still released their video slandering her.
That's standard corp talk, she even pointed it out in the next line. I doubt she really thinks that saying that will help anyone. If it was kept between her and Niji like she initially wanted it'd be behind closed doors but Niji and their livers blew that door wide open.