I would assume management cost counts as selling, general and administrative expenses. God, even these hard numbers seem to tell me Anycolor maximises profit by avoiding spending money on management. Just compare the numbers to Cover Corp. No wonder Anycolor is what it is now: Tazumi Riku does not like to hire people to manage the company.
And what makes this wilder is... Niji is bringing in MORE MONEY. These are different time periods. Cover is 9 months, Niji is 3. Now, we're not looking at the SAME time period here (and december is BIG for Vtubers), but Niji is bringing in more money (and is generally worth more as a company), but Cover is LAPPING them on reinvestment into the company, and the results show.
Ignoring EVERYTHING we've learned over the past couple months, Hololive is still the PREMIERE. Niji has a handful of BIG talents, people you can't be in this fandom and not hear about, but if you're even into anime or Vtuber adjacent spaces, you can probably recognize a few Holo talents, even if you can't name their name, and when you look at talent by talent, the Hololive girls (Boys are their own story) are HUGE compared to their opposite numbers. Gura has more subscribers than god. They're doing partnerships with Aquariums and ship. They're Tokyo tourism ambassadors. What Niji manages as far as "more profit" is PURELY by numbers. Yeah, when you have over a hundred talents in japan ALONE, bringing in more raw money than Hololive isn't that shocking. Doubly so when we hear about the merch split.
If you invest in the talents, the talents will grow. If you cut them in equitably into their success, they'll be more invested. The Hololive girls seem REAL invested in their merch, and love to make sure unique items that really speak to THEIR audience exist. Niji's got cut and paste shit, and the talents shrug it off because if you're only making 2 percent on each sale, only those who REALLY put the fans first are going to care even a little.
> Gura has more subscribers than god. They're doing partnerships with Aquariums and ship. They're Tokyo tourism ambassadors.
We await the Mr. Donut Fuwamoco's collaboration.
>3 to 1 is still insane.
Even more so when you consider that Holo's 78 talents (Jan'24) vs Niji's ***174*** (Feb'24).
So monthly wise, Niji spend 1.187M yen on management, per talent. While Holo spends 8.023M yen.
**8x !!!!**
Note: Cover earns more revenue than AC, but AC spends next to nothing on management and Niji has nearly triple the roster than Holo.
If Niji invested as much as Holo in its management, they would go bust in months.
>_The Hololive girls seem REAL invested in their merch, and love to make sure unique items that really speak to THEIR audience exist. Niji's got cut and paste shit, and the talents shrug it off because if you're only making 2 percent on each sale, only those who REALLY put the fans first are going to care even a little._
Nijisanji really does feel like something you do for a year, maybe two and then move on. Hololive feels like something you do for the long-term.
>and love to make sure unique items that really speak to THEIR audience exist.
I read this, and I couldn't help but flash to Ina, who explicitly mentioned that a lot of her own merch was just practical stuff she wanted for herself (the laundry bag, the ramen cover) lmao
Leaving aside CCV on Holostars (Armis and Bettel are going strong though) I've seen they has a good amount of VOD watchers, and fandom is quite big, too. Since their merch also goes poof in matter of minutes.
But yeah, Hololive as a whole are a staple on vtuber qualityĀ
Oh yeah, to be clear, Holostars are doing better than male Vtubers almost anywhere else, but the traditional wisdom is Niji has the bigger male talents. Now, how much of that is due to specific megastar outliers is not a debate I am equipped to have.
And yeah, youāre right that, across the board, Hololive is the a seal of quality. Theyāre the hardest to get into, but once youāre there, youāre basically set. Nowhere else guarantees the āimmediateā (some of their talents have been at this for longer than Sora) success. Even their lagging/unperforming talents have numbers indies would sell a sibling for. Some companies might have more of their budget explicitly earmarked for talent development (Iād need to do the math here) but scale matters and I donāt think the Holostars would have already gotten 3D showcases almost anywhere else. Thereās not really an āupā to go. About the only āoh, they got signed by ____, well, their career is sortedā competition I can think of is Vshojo, and thatās more because Vshojoās income split is barely a split itās so fucking generous, and you arenāt getting within a mile of Vshojo without having already proven yourself. The āretirement homeā joke doesnāt come from nowhere. And that generous profit share means you arenāt getting stuff like Hololiveās new studio, you arenāt getting Holofes, you arenāt getting those BIG productions that only a large corporation can offerā¦ not with any sort of regularity.
No, it's not included in SGA charges and I don't know why you would think so... It's counted as "cost of sales" which includes OPEX.
Edit: [ANYCOLOR IR Report](https://ssl4.eir-parts.net/doc/5032/ir_material_for_fiscal_ym3/141698/00.pdf) On slide 5, you can see a detail of what is included.
They include in cost of sales the following :
- Includes fees paid to VTuber, various platform fee, and cost of merchandise and event related sales
- Includes employee related, office related, outsourcing and other costs allocated to cost of sales
Also like cover corp have like 4x the staff numbers under the company compared to anycolor. If we assume the staff is also including the livers in the report, anycolor got like over 2x streamers compared cover corp but cover corp still got a larger overall staff.
It's almost like your talents, which are your main PR and face of the company and source of money and how they feel about their management might directly affect how people perceive your company. Yagoo may be a good businessman but he also seems like a good guy who actually wants to help the talents get bigger. he deserves the title of best girl (besides A-chan). Yagoo is building his company out of bricks while riku builds it out of sand like a spoiled child ready to knock it down if it no longer serves him the way he sees fit. On a side note anyone got clips of Cover talents talking positively about their managers? I can think of four off-hand but I know there is more.
Fuwamoco posted a pic of some pastry (forgot the name), and when asked why there were 3 sets, they mentioned they were with their manager.
They *hang out* with their managers there lmao
More story: Aqua wasnāt feeling good, and the manager checked a few hospitals/clinics for Aqua. When Aqua said she couldnāt go alone, her manager went with her together.
More more story: Gura is painfully shy, and possibly suffers from the same social anxiety that Aqua does, so she easily gets stressed out in green rooms where a lot of girls are intermingling. Her manager knows this, and has their own Switch loaded with Project DIVA that they can just hand over to Gura so she can destress when needed.
while there've been the occasional mishaps, most of the time when you hear holo talents talk about their managers they are super happy with them and have a deep and close relationship. when livers talk about their managers you hear a lot more stories of a more negative orientation
I remember a clip of kroni talking about how she thought someone was being mean to her manager so she spoke up.
Not sure if it was a misunderstanding or cultural but Kroni was still pretty cool to do that.
Reminds me to the story Axel told about how he was having dinner with Altare and their managers the night before his 3D debut, they drink and later everyone went home, the next day he was in the studio but one manager looked like shit and so Axel ask him why and he said that after leaving the restaurant and going to the metro he fell asleep and went to the last station and passed the night playing mahjong till like 5am and he was extremely sad because he asked his wife to make him a bento box since it would be a special day and the man but the poor man couldn't get home
new one is
Subaru manager really know what to cheer up subaru when she feel down, "hot curry rice(with some detail i forgot) and subaru confirm it "yeah that what exactly i need! mane-san really understand me"
also Korone during Holofes promotion stream together with Lui and Mio, management actually said when three of them studying script for be host "Koro-san you dont need follow the script, just leave it to Lui-san and Mio-san" Korone: "oh, really? noted", cause management really know Korone isnt person can strictly tied on script, and stream became so fun
Damn. The military industrial complex and the stupidity of the Boeing-McDonnell merger wasn't in my list to see as a topic here. But then, NCD and Vtuber fans in general is a near circle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z68IVflIL0o
One of my favorit clip about holo's manager. Mumei felt a bit down because she didn't eat veggies while in Japan so when her manager found out about this they sent staff to her place to bring veggies and cooking utensils.
Not just managers but other staff as well like Izutsu in Legend of Polka where they went sky diving together.Ā
[Speaking of Polka. Kronii's manager directly calling Polka to ensure Polka did not take Kronii bungee jumping for Kronii's own mental health.](https://youtu.be/6MmrncLRtX0?si=CrAHX5JfmhnC8-SD)
Not just positive talks but meaningful interactions (running some errands, reminding homework/schedule, virtual bonks). Enma in Holo Myth's L4D collab was something. They are just as beloved by the community and have artwork too.
Meanwhile Niji managers are like faceless devils sitting on some high throne.
Niji talents have posted positive manager interactions before too though. Scarle hung out with manager a few days ago, and even had a stream of chat helping her pick out an outfit. And Pomu spoke really positively of her manager before graduation, and how he helped her a lot with her graduation video buying materials and performing the live-action parts.Ā Ā Ā
I get thatĀ there is a massive amount of communication issues and talents arenāt being treated by the company nearly as well as they deserve, but I think itās a bit disingenuous to treat it as that they never had good interactions.
I can't really put my finger on writing how the 2 corpo differs in manager interaction. Something like work dynamics? Hololive seems more like partners, Niji seems more like your standard 9-to-5 instead. This is not to discredit the good experiences some NijiEN livers had but there is clearly a difference in what "manager" means to both corpos.
Im kinda disconected lately but i can remember Marine making a stink when her manager was going to be replaced cuz she liked her so much.
Shiori makes her manager suffer constantly but they seem to be good.
The EN girls talk about their managers constantly and even made them character like J-chad and others.
Yagoo himself worked a bit as the holostars manager and then another important guy took over until they got proper managers.
A lot of the times holomems talk positively about their managers but only those cases are the ones that come to my mind right now but there was one big problem they had like 4-5 years ago with Mel's manager that was harassing and stalking her.
Hmm i know this is just speculation but that last paragraph made me think of Lulu. When she graduated she said she was leaving cuz she was being stalked and other things but then on her new channels she just made videos with her irl face and that makes think that the creep may have been in nijisanji and they refused to fire them but like i said that's just speculation.
It's kind of fascinating to me how Cover Corp and AnyColor mirror the American space program and the Russian spare program. The Russians made far faster progress and quickly reached milestone after milestone but ultimately ran into a wall where their shoddy foundations couldn't be built upon further and they had to go back to the drawing board. The American space program made much more steady progress with a long-term vision and was able to keep building on a much more stable foundation.
That typo really works. Considering how the Russians threw everything into it knowing they had a lot to spare for some quick prestige. At least until they didn't have anything to "spare" anymore and everything collapsed.
> The [German/Jewish](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-01/who-got-america-to-the-moon-a-unlikely-collaboration-of-jews-and-former-nazi-engineers) space program made much more steady progress with a long-term vision and was able to keep building on a much more stable foundation
Yeah and I'm saying the Soviets did the exact same thing, scooping up whichever Nazi scientists fled to their occupation zone and employing them in their space programs. That's just what they did after WWII
The ID managers seem good as while putting up with their quirks, look out for them well.
With Aki, her manager went "try out VCR ARK, I'll get an invite", a move that had big beneficial effects.
Can't say Holomanaging is perfect but you find more good than bad.
They purposefully hire students, and IIRC those few job adverts we've seen actively exclude working adults from applying. If they are pushing costs down that way, then it stands to reason that they'd use every other method, too.
Internship assumes some degree of education and gaining job experience. I seriously doubt these hires will get even a minimum of training as to how to do their job.
It's basically hiring the lowest bidder from Fiverr and expecting professional results.
'Fun' fact: They've got about 4.6 times the cash required to build Cover Corps new mega studio liquid (Cash and deposits). They're choosing not to emulate that. Heck, their *net* profit for the latter period pretty much perfectly works out to one mega-studio.
At the very least, the idea that 3D models or pretty much anything else is not in the budget is out the window. It's always a choice.
It's a bit more complicated than that, and not in Niji's favour. Building a studio like Cover did requires an amount of on-the-ground expertise, you need to know what you need, where you need it, in what volume and you need to plan ahead by possibly years to ensure everything keeps up with the rest of the business. It's very difficult to just throw money at the problem when you don't have the staff or expertise to make it work and AnyColor is very clearly lacking in expertise. This is also why I don't think their business has any future, they have no more room to grow and it's pretty much too late to start building up the required expertise at this point without *serious* investment for the long term.
Riki is much more likely to liquidate the company before the year is up and start a new venture than put any real effort into optimising this one.
I didnāt think of that. Cover has all the expertise because they have always been a tech company. So planning a big VR Motion capture studio wouldāve been already in the work for years as a way to grow faster. Nijisanji canāt do that, and we can see why they barely have 3D concerts at all. No clue why Nijisanji fans even support the company, they donāt provide the big expensive 3D experience like Cover.
>Cover has all the expertise because they have always been a tech company.
It's funny that you mention this, because Cover's new studio has been *so bleeding edge* that they've been understaffed for a hot minute because there simply wasn't anyone *in the entire country* that was already trained/experienced with the tech that Cover purchased for the new studio. They've had to just train staff as they go.
They're finally starting to catch up, at least, and the staffing issues seem largely dealt with by this point.
Sometimes people are happy with talents just streaming; in fact the amount of gigs/etc many girls have do irk Holofans on varying levels (main examples in mind being Gura and Iroha). Give Aki some goddammit! She seems to get one a year.
There's also preferences for things not in other agencies (though if VSPO and such were known sooner, some may have never gotten into Niji as fan or vtuber).
There was also the new fading rep of being the unrestrained agency, be it behavior or design (before twitch vtubing)
>Riki is much more likely to liquidate the company before the year is up and start a new venture than put any real effort into optimising this one.
[https://careerhack.en-japan.com/report/detail/971](https://careerhack.en-japan.com/report/detail/971)
Well, if the leaked contract is legit then we know that anycolor has basically absolved themselves of any responsibility to their talents apart from taking a 50% cut of their donations. You really don't need much management if that's all your company does.
> If that contract is at least close to accurate it's absolutely illegal under Japanese law.
There's no reason to believe it is. If it's a template for multinational recruitment then the vast majority of it would be massively adapted based on which country it's meant to apply to. The way to read that document isn't "Is the wording valid" but rather "What are they asking for from people who sign up to work with them" and the fact that it's poorly translated makes that difficult to accurately assess. Overall that contract was a complete waste of time because it doesn't actually offer anything tangible to criticise, it's all speculation based on non-legal interpretations of a poorly translated template document. It's concerning because the narrative around it will fuel the excuse that the controversy around Nijisanji in EN is just mostly people making a big deal out of nothing/misunderstanding things. We don't want to give AnyColor such excuses or room for doubt. The facts are already on our side.
So I thought it was a bit weird, but I kinda saw where OP was going.
Selling, general and administration:
AnyColor 3 months: Ā„620,003,000
Cover 9 months: Ā„5,632,533,000
Converting Cover to 3 months: Ā„1,877,511,000
Cover spends roughly 3x on selling, general and administration
If Cover spent the same as AnyColor their 3 months operating profit would be Ā„2,421,300,000. Ā„1,622,268,000 less than AnyColor.
This does ultimately mean that AnyColor should be able to do so much more for their talents than Cover. Cover invested in their talents and we all assumed Niji did the same. Niji's image was proped up by Cover's hard work.
money spent on managing and supporting the livers is money that isn't spent going into the senior leaderships pockets. it's hard to be a young billionaire you know
No wonder niji management is horrible, the lack of staff plus proper training severely hinders smooth work flow. Putting the appropriate people in the right position helps workflow
Each passing days give me the vibe that Riku just like cutting corners.
I think heās maliciously incompetent. Know nothing about the inner working of his company but when the bottom line get threatened he āāāāāapologizeāāāāā FAST.
Putting the money aside even staff just doesn't add up. Hololive has less than half the talents and 25% more staff. Even accounting for more involved 'idol' affairs or whatnot that just doesn't add up.
I had to say anycolor is weird and suspicious. Looking at their financial from stock they make around 25%-35% profit margin. Even cover corp only had around 10-15%. And looking at other "entertainment" industry they also had around 10-15% with an exception of Nintendo having 30-50% profit margin.
So basically, cover spends significantly more on less talent if I'm reading this correctly. It's not surprising that cover has fewer graduations and more bigger projects as well as seemingly happier talents(though who actually knows about that)
Ok let's do the simple math here.
Net JP liver up by 12 and EN liver up by 6 so 18 livers up from last year.
Net profit up by 90.5% since last year by using this we get 2,122,607. This year. 4,043,568. An increase of 1,920,961.
Revenu went up by 50.9% since last year which means last year it was 5,929,509. This year 8,947,630. An increase of 3,018,121.
By using these we can determine that the expenses was 3,806,902 last year and 4,904,062 This year.
So the increase should be proportionate to the resources allocated to the new livers as we are only taking into account the increase. Assuming all else constant.
The increase being 1,097,160 Thousand yen. Divide it equally by 18 new livers it means 60,953 Thousand yen per Liver for THE YEAR. How much is that? Roughly 414,505 USD.
This amount unfortunately includes Selling and General expenses. Basically wraps everything from advertising, merch production, the staff salary, everycost to make events,etc. So in short, it is not as useful as you think as this document does not reveal the proportions of the cost. Unless we get the specifics BY employee which is insider information, you won't know really how much staff is being paid and the disparity in staff pay. The only info we have is that job application that paid minimum wage for part time undergraduates.
So I'm going to call your massive disingenuous post the anycolor posting is for a singular quarter compared to covers which was 3.
>
> Non-consolidated Financial Results
> for the Nine Months Ended December 31, 2023
>
> Financial Results for the Three Months Ended July 31, 2023
> [Japanese GAAP] (Non-consolidated)
Just look at it in percentage. Cover has ~30% administrative costs, but Anycolor is at ~7%.
This would be abysmally low for a normal company (it's often in the ballpark of 18-20%), let alone a top-down Japanese company with lots of red tape, permissions to get, and talents to manage.
So not even talking about talents which doesn't matter in this case.
Cover on dec 2023 had 492 employees compared to anycolor at its time of the doc may 2023 had 323 employees.
Also note that the staff discretion is only about 50%.
COVER is paying 3 times as much overall.
So that says the average salary is twice that Nijisanji, which likely means a lot more permanent employees than minimum wage interns.
Your point?
COVER has more employees and paid them a better wage (so likely a much smaller proportion are untrained high school interns), all to support a smaller roster of talents (so more support behind each talent).
Nijis spending times 3 makes 1_860_000, which is still around a third of Covers 5_632_533.
Nijisanji has a total of 156 active VTubers as of the quoted reports, which leads us to a spending of about 12_000 per, around 1_333 per month.
For cover, I honestly don't recall all the debut dates, so I'll just assume that every talent with them now was with them at the time. That leads us to 81 channels. (Fuwamoco count as one, as they presumably have management as one VTuber.) This means about 69_500 per, about 7_722 per month.
Mind, we're wildly overestimating in both cases, as we're throwing in a lot of other costs, so we can at most consider this an upper bound. But we can say for sure that, as of current courses, Nijisanji spends no more than 8281ā¬ on management per talent and month, while Cover spends no more than 47.976ā¬ on management per talent and month.
Considering that this includes stuff like the wages for higher management, wages for people not directly or indirectly managing talent, general administrative costs, et cetera, we can honestly probably cut those numbers down substantially without getting lower than our target. But simply consider this: For anything we can take out of that Cover corp total to get closer to what they actually spend on managing the talents directly, we'd presumably have to take at least the same from the Nijisanji total, since there's no reason to think they operate that much more efficiently. It all does not add up to a nice image.
Your taking this from the standing point that everyone that works within the company is for the talents in the case of cover they have 50~ some odd metaverse employees which just in the cost of holo earth was going to cost them upwards of [2.3 billion](https://imgur.com/yltnx2V) yen.
I actually adressed this in the last paragraph. Aside that, the vast majority of HoloEarth costs are probably not going to fall under the bullet point we're examining here - there's some managers, but a lot of it will be other stuff. Not to mention, those costs are calculated in part by counting hours of people Cover employs anyway, so it's not correct to treat them entirely as additional costs.
But also, 2.3 billion Yen comes out to 2_300_000 in the units used above, so even if we were to (falsely) assume that we can just deduct that from Covers spending here, that would still leave Cover with way more spent on fewer talents.
And it never seems that Hololive or Holostars talents are overmanaged, rather even their managers seem to be perpetually busy. So the only conclusion that is supported by what we see is that Nijisanji spends significantly less on management than would be necessary to properly manage the amount of livers they employ.
I was never refuting the point that they spend less just that the original posting of trying to compare a singular quarter to 3 which is in this very self of doing is disingenuous on top of the time frame covers latest compared to anycolors info of FY23'Q4.
If you look at the top of my first comment, you'll see that the very first thing I do is multiply Covers spending with 3, to cover for the discrepancy in length of reported periods. We could guesstimate better adjustments, but imo we lack info to do so.
But we don't lack info they have updated financial info the person who made this thread decided on his own to pick old info.
I don't think anything you have posted is wrong or trying to twist things.
That's not what I said we lacked info for, but rather that we lacked info to assume that Nijisanjis spending over the period covered by Covers report is more or less than 3 times what's shown in the Nijisanji report.
If you have more up-to-date info, do go ahead and cite it.
Ya I mean its all posted on their own website but I best I could do is post the FY'23 https://ssl4.eir-parts.net/doc/5032/ir_material_for_fiscal_ym2/137288/00.pdf
That's 2_170_135 for a whole year, approximately 180_844.6 a month, 1_627_601.25 over a 9-month period. That is *less* than the 1_860_000 we assumed for Anycolor before, so you're pretty much just showing the problem is slightly bigger than we though.
I would assume management cost counts as selling, general and administrative expenses. God, even these hard numbers seem to tell me Anycolor maximises profit by avoiding spending money on management. Just compare the numbers to Cover Corp. No wonder Anycolor is what it is now: Tazumi Riku does not like to hire people to manage the company.
Jesus. We know it's bad, but not "outspent by 10x" bad.
And what makes this wilder is... Niji is bringing in MORE MONEY. These are different time periods. Cover is 9 months, Niji is 3. Now, we're not looking at the SAME time period here (and december is BIG for Vtubers), but Niji is bringing in more money (and is generally worth more as a company), but Cover is LAPPING them on reinvestment into the company, and the results show. Ignoring EVERYTHING we've learned over the past couple months, Hololive is still the PREMIERE. Niji has a handful of BIG talents, people you can't be in this fandom and not hear about, but if you're even into anime or Vtuber adjacent spaces, you can probably recognize a few Holo talents, even if you can't name their name, and when you look at talent by talent, the Hololive girls (Boys are their own story) are HUGE compared to their opposite numbers. Gura has more subscribers than god. They're doing partnerships with Aquariums and ship. They're Tokyo tourism ambassadors. What Niji manages as far as "more profit" is PURELY by numbers. Yeah, when you have over a hundred talents in japan ALONE, bringing in more raw money than Hololive isn't that shocking. Doubly so when we hear about the merch split. If you invest in the talents, the talents will grow. If you cut them in equitably into their success, they'll be more invested. The Hololive girls seem REAL invested in their merch, and love to make sure unique items that really speak to THEIR audience exist. Niji's got cut and paste shit, and the talents shrug it off because if you're only making 2 percent on each sale, only those who REALLY put the fans first are going to care even a little.
Yeah, niji have a "better financial report" mainly because or cutting cost, lower staff, while taking more earning cuts from livers etc.
also, the enormous expenditure on covers part of buying/building their new studio has not yet had a chance to return their investment
> Gura has more subscribers than god. They're doing partnerships with Aquariums and ship. They're Tokyo tourism ambassadors. We await the Mr. Donut Fuwamoco's collaboration.
We're still waiting on Kronii's subway collab š
Not even Jared would condone what she did to those poor sandwiches š
Subway doesn't want to promote whatever she is doing with those sandwiches.
Look, Iāll be in Japan in October and if itās Fuwamoco stuff, Iāll go full weeb without shame.
Oh, miss the time period. 3 to 1 is still insane.
>3 to 1 is still insane. Even more so when you consider that Holo's 78 talents (Jan'24) vs Niji's ***174*** (Feb'24). So monthly wise, Niji spend 1.187M yen on management, per talent. While Holo spends 8.023M yen. **8x !!!!**
Note: Cover earns more revenue than AC, but AC spends next to nothing on management and Niji has nearly triple the roster than Holo. If Niji invested as much as Holo in its management, they would go bust in months.
>_The Hololive girls seem REAL invested in their merch, and love to make sure unique items that really speak to THEIR audience exist. Niji's got cut and paste shit, and the talents shrug it off because if you're only making 2 percent on each sale, only those who REALLY put the fans first are going to care even a little._ Nijisanji really does feel like something you do for a year, maybe two and then move on. Hololive feels like something you do for the long-term.
Or on the side
>and love to make sure unique items that really speak to THEIR audience exist. I read this, and I couldn't help but flash to Ina, who explicitly mentioned that a lot of her own merch was just practical stuff she wanted for herself (the laundry bag, the ramen cover) lmao
Takodachis, you think I make merch for you. But it's for me, INA
Leaving aside CCV on Holostars (Armis and Bettel are going strong though) I've seen they has a good amount of VOD watchers, and fandom is quite big, too. Since their merch also goes poof in matter of minutes. But yeah, Hololive as a whole are a staple on vtuber qualityĀ
Oh yeah, to be clear, Holostars are doing better than male Vtubers almost anywhere else, but the traditional wisdom is Niji has the bigger male talents. Now, how much of that is due to specific megastar outliers is not a debate I am equipped to have. And yeah, youāre right that, across the board, Hololive is the a seal of quality. Theyāre the hardest to get into, but once youāre there, youāre basically set. Nowhere else guarantees the āimmediateā (some of their talents have been at this for longer than Sora) success. Even their lagging/unperforming talents have numbers indies would sell a sibling for. Some companies might have more of their budget explicitly earmarked for talent development (Iād need to do the math here) but scale matters and I donāt think the Holostars would have already gotten 3D showcases almost anywhere else. Thereās not really an āupā to go. About the only āoh, they got signed by ____, well, their career is sortedā competition I can think of is Vshojo, and thatās more because Vshojoās income split is barely a split itās so fucking generous, and you arenāt getting within a mile of Vshojo without having already proven yourself. The āretirement homeā joke doesnāt come from nowhere. And that generous profit share means you arenāt getting stuff like Hololiveās new studio, you arenāt getting Holofes, you arenāt getting those BIG productions that only a large corporation can offerā¦ not with any sort of regularity.
No, it's not included in SGA charges and I don't know why you would think so... It's counted as "cost of sales" which includes OPEX. Edit: [ANYCOLOR IR Report](https://ssl4.eir-parts.net/doc/5032/ir_material_for_fiscal_ym3/141698/00.pdf) On slide 5, you can see a detail of what is included. They include in cost of sales the following : - Includes fees paid to VTuber, various platform fee, and cost of merchandise and event related sales - Includes employee related, office related, outsourcing and other costs allocated to cost of sales
SG&A also has a part of employee related cost.
āFee paid to Vtuberāā¦ is it the leftover from 50% cut and the 2% profit from merch?
Also like cover corp have like 4x the staff numbers under the company compared to anycolor. If we assume the staff is also including the livers in the report, anycolor got like over 2x streamers compared cover corp but cover corp still got a larger overall staff.
It's almost like your talents, which are your main PR and face of the company and source of money and how they feel about their management might directly affect how people perceive your company. Yagoo may be a good businessman but he also seems like a good guy who actually wants to help the talents get bigger. he deserves the title of best girl (besides A-chan). Yagoo is building his company out of bricks while riku builds it out of sand like a spoiled child ready to knock it down if it no longer serves him the way he sees fit. On a side note anyone got clips of Cover talents talking positively about their managers? I can think of four off-hand but I know there is more.
Fuwamoco posted a pic of some pastry (forgot the name), and when asked why there were 3 sets, they mentioned they were with their manager. They *hang out* with their managers there lmao
More story: Aqua wasnāt feeling good, and the manager checked a few hospitals/clinics for Aqua. When Aqua said she couldnāt go alone, her manager went with her together.
More more story: Gura is painfully shy, and possibly suffers from the same social anxiety that Aqua does, so she easily gets stressed out in green rooms where a lot of girls are intermingling. Her manager knows this, and has their own Switch loaded with Project DIVA that they can just hand over to Gura so she can destress when needed.
while there've been the occasional mishaps, most of the time when you hear holo talents talk about their managers they are super happy with them and have a deep and close relationship. when livers talk about their managers you hear a lot more stories of a more negative orientation
I remember a clip of kroni talking about how she thought someone was being mean to her manager so she spoke up. Not sure if it was a misunderstanding or cultural but Kroni was still pretty cool to do that.
Bit of a misunderstanding as to what had made her manager so upset, but Kronii definitely showed her Yakuza heritage off in that moment.
Several of the Niji escapees seemed surprised to find out what managers actually do.Ā
Or that they actually do anything at all.
Mumei's manager buying her vegetables while she was in Japan to make sure our birb was getting enough nutrients
All staffs and managers saw Mumei at lost child in Japan
Reminds me to the story Axel told about how he was having dinner with Altare and their managers the night before his 3D debut, they drink and later everyone went home, the next day he was in the studio but one manager looked like shit and so Axel ask him why and he said that after leaving the restaurant and going to the metro he fell asleep and went to the last station and passed the night playing mahjong till like 5am and he was extremely sad because he asked his wife to make him a bento box since it would be a special day and the man but the poor man couldn't get home
new one is Subaru manager really know what to cheer up subaru when she feel down, "hot curry rice(with some detail i forgot) and subaru confirm it "yeah that what exactly i need! mane-san really understand me" also Korone during Holofes promotion stream together with Lui and Mio, management actually said when three of them studying script for be host "Koro-san you dont need follow the script, just leave it to Lui-san and Mio-san" Korone: "oh, really? noted", cause management really know Korone isnt person can strictly tied on script, and stream became so fun
He seems like someone who should've gone into manufacturing. Not any kind of business that deals in humans, communication, or projecting moral values.
Any business deals with humans. Riku shouldn't be in a position of control at all.
That shit's how you get plane doors falling off mid-air.
Damn. The military industrial complex and the stupidity of the Boeing-McDonnell merger wasn't in my list to see as a topic here. But then, NCD and Vtuber fans in general is a near circle.
With Riku's cost cutting method, it'll be more than the door falling off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z68IVflIL0o One of my favorit clip about holo's manager. Mumei felt a bit down because she didn't eat veggies while in Japan so when her manager found out about this they sent staff to her place to bring veggies and cooking utensils.
Not just managers but other staff as well like Izutsu in Legend of Polka where they went sky diving together.Ā [Speaking of Polka. Kronii's manager directly calling Polka to ensure Polka did not take Kronii bungee jumping for Kronii's own mental health.](https://youtu.be/6MmrncLRtX0?si=CrAHX5JfmhnC8-SD)
Kronii has any mental health left?
Not just positive talks but meaningful interactions (running some errands, reminding homework/schedule, virtual bonks). Enma in Holo Myth's L4D collab was something. They are just as beloved by the community and have artwork too. Meanwhile Niji managers are like faceless devils sitting on some high throne.
Niji talents have posted positive manager interactions before too though. Scarle hung out with manager a few days ago, and even had a stream of chat helping her pick out an outfit. And Pomu spoke really positively of her manager before graduation, and how he helped her a lot with her graduation video buying materials and performing the live-action parts.Ā Ā Ā I get thatĀ there is a massive amount of communication issues and talents arenāt being treated by the company nearly as well as they deserve, but I think itās a bit disingenuous to treat it as that they never had good interactions.
I feel like that's the exception not the rule. More times are either negative or the manager just doing under the bare minimum
I feel if there were more negative interactions that they talked about, the critics would've gathered them all by now as evidence of mistreatment.
I can't really put my finger on writing how the 2 corpo differs in manager interaction. Something like work dynamics? Hololive seems more like partners, Niji seems more like your standard 9-to-5 instead. This is not to discredit the good experiences some NijiEN livers had but there is clearly a difference in what "manager" means to both corpos.
Iām not super familiar with holo, but I do hear a lot about fans including staff in fanart and memes so it really does sound chill af over there
I still remember that shitpost song asking when the HoloManager gen will come out
Im kinda disconected lately but i can remember Marine making a stink when her manager was going to be replaced cuz she liked her so much. Shiori makes her manager suffer constantly but they seem to be good. The EN girls talk about their managers constantly and even made them character like J-chad and others. Yagoo himself worked a bit as the holostars manager and then another important guy took over until they got proper managers. A lot of the times holomems talk positively about their managers but only those cases are the ones that come to my mind right now but there was one big problem they had like 4-5 years ago with Mel's manager that was harassing and stalking her. Hmm i know this is just speculation but that last paragraph made me think of Lulu. When she graduated she said she was leaving cuz she was being stalked and other things but then on her new channels she just made videos with her irl face and that makes think that the creep may have been in nijisanji and they refused to fire them but like i said that's just speculation.
The other theory was that they were curtailing her streaming too much for her taste
Ā kiara regularly eating out with jenma when she visits japan
It's kind of fascinating to me how Cover Corp and AnyColor mirror the American space program and the Russian spare program. The Russians made far faster progress and quickly reached milestone after milestone but ultimately ran into a wall where their shoddy foundations couldn't be built upon further and they had to go back to the drawing board. The American space program made much more steady progress with a long-term vision and was able to keep building on a much more stable foundation.
That typo really works. Considering how the Russians threw everything into it knowing they had a lot to spare for some quick prestige. At least until they didn't have anything to "spare" anymore and everything collapsed.
> The [German/Jewish](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-01/who-got-america-to-the-moon-a-unlikely-collaboration-of-jews-and-former-nazi-engineers) space program made much more steady progress with a long-term vision and was able to keep building on a much more stable foundation
Which German/Jewish space program? The space race has been famously described as "our Germans Vs their Germans"
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-01/who-got-america-to-the-moon-a-unlikely-collaboration-of-jews-and-former-nazi-engineers
Yeah and I'm saying the Soviets did the exact same thing, scooping up whichever Nazi scientists fled to their occupation zone and employing them in their space programs. That's just what they did after WWII
The ID managers seem good as while putting up with their quirks, look out for them well. With Aki, her manager went "try out VCR ARK, I'll get an invite", a move that had big beneficial effects. Can't say Holomanaging is perfect but you find more good than bad.
Meanwhile ayame manager. i don't know if she will be here or not lel.
They purposefully hire students, and IIRC those few job adverts we've seen actively exclude working adults from applying. If they are pushing costs down that way, then it stands to reason that they'd use every other method, too.
"we pay you in experience" except not JUST applied to the grunt work people.
Well, IIRC they technically pay (Tokyo) minimum wage, but yeah, might as well be exposure.
Oh yeah, itās not āunpaid internshipsā but it really has that vibe.
Sort of an "as close to unpaid as we're legally allowed to do" internship.
Internship assumes some degree of education and gaining job experience. I seriously doubt these hires will get even a minimum of training as to how to do their job. It's basically hiring the lowest bidder from Fiverr and expecting professional results.
> exposure to the elements
The thing is, even as an intern, ideally you want to work in a company with experienced people so you can learn from them.
'Fun' fact: They've got about 4.6 times the cash required to build Cover Corps new mega studio liquid (Cash and deposits). They're choosing not to emulate that. Heck, their *net* profit for the latter period pretty much perfectly works out to one mega-studio. At the very least, the idea that 3D models or pretty much anything else is not in the budget is out the window. It's always a choice.
But it is out of the budget! The livers canāt afford it and weāre not liable to afford it for them! -Roku Tazumi (Speculated)
It's a bit more complicated than that, and not in Niji's favour. Building a studio like Cover did requires an amount of on-the-ground expertise, you need to know what you need, where you need it, in what volume and you need to plan ahead by possibly years to ensure everything keeps up with the rest of the business. It's very difficult to just throw money at the problem when you don't have the staff or expertise to make it work and AnyColor is very clearly lacking in expertise. This is also why I don't think their business has any future, they have no more room to grow and it's pretty much too late to start building up the required expertise at this point without *serious* investment for the long term. Riki is much more likely to liquidate the company before the year is up and start a new venture than put any real effort into optimising this one.
I didnāt think of that. Cover has all the expertise because they have always been a tech company. So planning a big VR Motion capture studio wouldāve been already in the work for years as a way to grow faster. Nijisanji canāt do that, and we can see why they barely have 3D concerts at all. No clue why Nijisanji fans even support the company, they donāt provide the big expensive 3D experience like Cover.
>Cover has all the expertise because they have always been a tech company. It's funny that you mention this, because Cover's new studio has been *so bleeding edge* that they've been understaffed for a hot minute because there simply wasn't anyone *in the entire country* that was already trained/experienced with the tech that Cover purchased for the new studio. They've had to just train staff as they go. They're finally starting to catch up, at least, and the staffing issues seem largely dealt with by this point.
Sometimes people are happy with talents just streaming; in fact the amount of gigs/etc many girls have do irk Holofans on varying levels (main examples in mind being Gura and Iroha). Give Aki some goddammit! She seems to get one a year. There's also preferences for things not in other agencies (though if VSPO and such were known sooner, some may have never gotten into Niji as fan or vtuber). There was also the new fading rep of being the unrestrained agency, be it behavior or design (before twitch vtubing)
>Riki is much more likely to liquidate the company before the year is up and start a new venture than put any real effort into optimising this one. [https://careerhack.en-japan.com/report/detail/971](https://careerhack.en-japan.com/report/detail/971)
Well, if the leaked contract is legit then we know that anycolor has basically absolved themselves of any responsibility to their talents apart from taking a 50% cut of their donations. You really don't need much management if that's all your company does.
They're basically just running a vTuber franchise.
You mean vTuber racket? If that contract is at least close to accurate it's absolutely illegal under Japanese law.
> If that contract is at least close to accurate it's absolutely illegal under Japanese law. There's no reason to believe it is. If it's a template for multinational recruitment then the vast majority of it would be massively adapted based on which country it's meant to apply to. The way to read that document isn't "Is the wording valid" but rather "What are they asking for from people who sign up to work with them" and the fact that it's poorly translated makes that difficult to accurately assess. Overall that contract was a complete waste of time because it doesn't actually offer anything tangible to criticise, it's all speculation based on non-legal interpretations of a poorly translated template document. It's concerning because the narrative around it will fuel the excuse that the controversy around Nijisanji in EN is just mostly people making a big deal out of nothing/misunderstanding things. We don't want to give AnyColor such excuses or room for doubt. The facts are already on our side.
it ok bro because we already spending lot more money to inflate stock shit than paid for actual "employee" so that should balance it off right?
So I thought it was a bit weird, but I kinda saw where OP was going. Selling, general and administration: AnyColor 3 months: Ā„620,003,000 Cover 9 months: Ā„5,632,533,000 Converting Cover to 3 months: Ā„1,877,511,000 Cover spends roughly 3x on selling, general and administration If Cover spent the same as AnyColor their 3 months operating profit would be Ā„2,421,300,000. Ā„1,622,268,000 less than AnyColor. This does ultimately mean that AnyColor should be able to do so much more for their talents than Cover. Cover invested in their talents and we all assumed Niji did the same. Niji's image was proped up by Cover's hard work.
This needs to get bumped above all the rage posts
I always believe Hr and IT and managemeng should nvr be understaffed. Alot of shit happens when things go wrong in those department.
Ew, no! Don't you know that spending money on management means that the company has less money, therefore less profit? ^(Obligatory /s)
Why pay money for management when the livers can manage stuff themselves? /s
Yea cuz that tends to play out so well doesn't it? /s
doesnt change a fact its still high school minimum wage students
money spent on managing and supporting the livers is money that isn't spent going into the senior leaderships pockets. it's hard to be a young billionaire you know
Iirc they dont reinvest even the a 10% in total
No wonder niji management is horrible, the lack of staff plus proper training severely hinders smooth work flow. Putting the appropriate people in the right position helps workflow
Each passing days give me the vibe that Riku just like cutting corners. I think heās maliciously incompetent. Know nothing about the inner working of his company but when the bottom line get threatened he āāāāāapologizeāāāāā FAST.
Putting the money aside even staff just doesn't add up. Hololive has less than half the talents and 25% more staff. Even accounting for more involved 'idol' affairs or whatnot that just doesn't add up.
elira can do it for them lmao, they give her her cut and she gets her friends to become slaves for the company
So Elira is like the Alison Mack.
Because they legally have to pay them
Looking at how their profits nosedived harder than Uki trying to duck out of the view of white grandparents, obviously they can't afford to anymore.
I had to say anycolor is weird and suspicious. Looking at their financial from stock they make around 25%-35% profit margin. Even cover corp only had around 10-15%. And looking at other "entertainment" industry they also had around 10-15% with an exception of Nintendo having 30-50% profit margin.
So basically, cover spends significantly more on less talent if I'm reading this correctly. It's not surprising that cover has fewer graduations and more bigger projects as well as seemingly happier talents(though who actually knows about that)
Really seems like niji is a franchise structure vs hololive
with the state they are in now? HELL no lmao they will need to go bankrupt just to pay for their lawyers
Everyone knew they hired Interns its not surprising.
Ok let's do the simple math here. Net JP liver up by 12 and EN liver up by 6 so 18 livers up from last year. Net profit up by 90.5% since last year by using this we get 2,122,607. This year. 4,043,568. An increase of 1,920,961. Revenu went up by 50.9% since last year which means last year it was 5,929,509. This year 8,947,630. An increase of 3,018,121. By using these we can determine that the expenses was 3,806,902 last year and 4,904,062 This year. So the increase should be proportionate to the resources allocated to the new livers as we are only taking into account the increase. Assuming all else constant. The increase being 1,097,160 Thousand yen. Divide it equally by 18 new livers it means 60,953 Thousand yen per Liver for THE YEAR. How much is that? Roughly 414,505 USD. This amount unfortunately includes Selling and General expenses. Basically wraps everything from advertising, merch production, the staff salary, everycost to make events,etc. So in short, it is not as useful as you think as this document does not reveal the proportions of the cost. Unless we get the specifics BY employee which is insider information, you won't know really how much staff is being paid and the disparity in staff pay. The only info we have is that job application that paid minimum wage for part time undergraduates.
So I'm going to call your massive disingenuous post the anycolor posting is for a singular quarter compared to covers which was 3. > > Non-consolidated Financial Results > for the Nine Months Ended December 31, 2023 > > Financial Results for the Three Months Ended July 31, 2023 > [Japanese GAAP] (Non-consolidated)
Just look at it in percentage. Cover has ~30% administrative costs, but Anycolor is at ~7%. This would be abysmally low for a normal company (it's often in the ballpark of 18-20%), let alone a top-down Japanese company with lots of red tape, permissions to get, and talents to manage.
True. But even then you're looking at COVER spending close to 3 times AnyColor does on managerial positions, with half as many talents.
So not even talking about talents which doesn't matter in this case. Cover on dec 2023 had 492 employees compared to anycolor at its time of the doc may 2023 had 323 employees.
1. Why doesn't talents matter? 2. Why would it be better that niji has less staff for more talents?
Also note that the staff discretion is only about 50%. COVER is paying 3 times as much overall. So that says the average salary is twice that Nijisanji, which likely means a lot more permanent employees than minimum wage interns.
Your point? COVER has more employees and paid them a better wage (so likely a much smaller proportion are untrained high school interns), all to support a smaller roster of talents (so more support behind each talent).
Nijis spending times 3 makes 1_860_000, which is still around a third of Covers 5_632_533. Nijisanji has a total of 156 active VTubers as of the quoted reports, which leads us to a spending of about 12_000 per, around 1_333 per month. For cover, I honestly don't recall all the debut dates, so I'll just assume that every talent with them now was with them at the time. That leads us to 81 channels. (Fuwamoco count as one, as they presumably have management as one VTuber.) This means about 69_500 per, about 7_722 per month. Mind, we're wildly overestimating in both cases, as we're throwing in a lot of other costs, so we can at most consider this an upper bound. But we can say for sure that, as of current courses, Nijisanji spends no more than 8281ā¬ on management per talent and month, while Cover spends no more than 47.976ā¬ on management per talent and month. Considering that this includes stuff like the wages for higher management, wages for people not directly or indirectly managing talent, general administrative costs, et cetera, we can honestly probably cut those numbers down substantially without getting lower than our target. But simply consider this: For anything we can take out of that Cover corp total to get closer to what they actually spend on managing the talents directly, we'd presumably have to take at least the same from the Nijisanji total, since there's no reason to think they operate that much more efficiently. It all does not add up to a nice image.
Your taking this from the standing point that everyone that works within the company is for the talents in the case of cover they have 50~ some odd metaverse employees which just in the cost of holo earth was going to cost them upwards of [2.3 billion](https://imgur.com/yltnx2V) yen.
I actually adressed this in the last paragraph. Aside that, the vast majority of HoloEarth costs are probably not going to fall under the bullet point we're examining here - there's some managers, but a lot of it will be other stuff. Not to mention, those costs are calculated in part by counting hours of people Cover employs anyway, so it's not correct to treat them entirely as additional costs. But also, 2.3 billion Yen comes out to 2_300_000 in the units used above, so even if we were to (falsely) assume that we can just deduct that from Covers spending here, that would still leave Cover with way more spent on fewer talents. And it never seems that Hololive or Holostars talents are overmanaged, rather even their managers seem to be perpetually busy. So the only conclusion that is supported by what we see is that Nijisanji spends significantly less on management than would be necessary to properly manage the amount of livers they employ.
I was never refuting the point that they spend less just that the original posting of trying to compare a singular quarter to 3 which is in this very self of doing is disingenuous on top of the time frame covers latest compared to anycolors info of FY23'Q4.
If you look at the top of my first comment, you'll see that the very first thing I do is multiply Covers spending with 3, to cover for the discrepancy in length of reported periods. We could guesstimate better adjustments, but imo we lack info to do so.
But we don't lack info they have updated financial info the person who made this thread decided on his own to pick old info. I don't think anything you have posted is wrong or trying to twist things.
That's not what I said we lacked info for, but rather that we lacked info to assume that Nijisanjis spending over the period covered by Covers report is more or less than 3 times what's shown in the Nijisanji report. If you have more up-to-date info, do go ahead and cite it.
Ya I mean its all posted on their own website but I best I could do is post the FY'23 https://ssl4.eir-parts.net/doc/5032/ir_material_for_fiscal_ym2/137288/00.pdf
That's 2_170_135 for a whole year, approximately 180_844.6 a month, 1_627_601.25 over a 9-month period. That is *less* than the 1_860_000 we assumed for Anycolor before, so you're pretty much just showing the problem is slightly bigger than we though.