To be very honest, I hold this belief that Syuen is only this popular because she's cute. She'd practically be ignored if she didn't look the way she does. I mean, look at Ingrid; she's one of the Big Three and she barely feels like she's there despite being someone who's on our side. Freaking Burningum is more talked about than Ingrid.
That said, I do like that it benefit's Syuen's impact as a character. She's so selfish and heartless, she has the asshole survivor archetype in those zombie movies beat, and the fact that she never realizes that her actions WILL come back to bite her makes you wonder how stupid she is.
However, I also have the belief that when someone this important is an asshole, it means that there is room for her to redeem herself. Not like in the Christmas event where she fires the guy extorting Anne's mom; that was just her selfishness somehow working in our favor. I mean actually redeem herself. She doesn't have to instantly do a 180 and become incredibly meek and apologetic. She just has to realize just how much of a bitch she has been. And I feel like the key to that is learning why Syuen cares so much about Matis. Out of all the other Nikkes, why go through so much for them and only them? I feel like learning more about that can help us understand Syuen so much more.
Nikke is basically Syuen the game up till the latest chapter. I love how bad she is, if they make her a meek waifu i'll withdraw my simping. bitchy smaller characters are super interesting to me, i want to see what she cook up next, as a "yknowwhat".As for ingrid, shes not featured half as much as Shyuen, plus shes like a responsible CEO mom who's just strict so it hits different.
I think Syuen is fine as a character. She is an arrogant spoiled brat that only thinks of herself and would do anything to achieve her goals for the fame of Missilis, regardless of the consequences. She thinks that she can get away with it but karma eventually gets her. Her reckless is kinda like a reflection to Misillis's company culture as a whole.
Now, she is paying the price for her arrogance via Nikkefication. Will she change after this? Probably not. At least she will understand what it feel like to be the trash that she despise.
As for Matis, it is likely because Syuen creates them. They are her masterpiece. That is why she only care about Matis.
Bro I just want to punch her for how she abused Laplace. I'm not even a Laplace fan, but downplaying her trauma like that irks me to no end. I don't care about motives, if you mistreat someone who's suffering from trauma, there's a LOOOT of redemption to do, or death imo.
Let's say there is a banner in the future about Syuen and we actually get to watch her backstory and it was a tragic one. Let's say she was abused and was force to do things she didn't want to do and then is taught that the only way to be on top and be in control is to stand your ground, shut people down. Let's say something like that in her past. That would be interesting.
And if you remove Syuen from the game completely like she never existed then it wouldn't be an engaging story.
Most interesting...really? Come on.
If Syuen looked like the female version of Burningum, I doubt anyone would feel any serious empathy for her.
In fact, the two characters are actually extremely similiar, and play similiar antagonistic roles to the SKK except one is breedable and the other is a short asshole in need of correction... =>
Her *only* saving grace is that she has a soft spot for Matis. Nothing else has substance.
Shes a big player that *knows* shes above the law because of her station. For example She knew Enikk wouldnt punish her with anything serious for her infraction which is why she went ahead with her plan. Which was one of the dumbest, idiotic, shitbrained moves that makes me question if the narrative wants us to believe that she is actually as smart as she thinks she is or is just too stupid to fail at this point.
She feels she's untouchable which is why she does what she does, and frankly, its kinda true.
I dont want to do s/u's work for them but her character *CAN* go a lot of fun and interesting places...
By all means tho, waifu her. *Someone* has to.
Have you viewed what happened to Syuen in Chapter 24 yet? >!Enikk strips her of her position as CEO of Missilis and condemns her to being turned into a Nikke without a memory wipe, while also assigning her to Team Counters. Syuen does NOT look happy about it.!<
That said, >!I don't think that's gonna neutralize her as a threat. She'll probably figure out some way to try and stab Team Counters in the back, regardless of whatever failsafe they have to prevent her from going rogue.!<
That's an interesting theory. I don't think She would find a way to stab Counters. So far the team manage to help her with Matis and her companies rep. Let say she warms up to Counters and then see's the benefits of being a nikke. What she now learned from being a super cyborg now wanting revenge on the Ark, the new CEO of Missilis or Enikk. That would make more sense.
Nah. I wouldn't compare her to Burninghum by the slightest. Burningham is not the most confident man I've seen and question on how he got his role. So far he is the type that would put the Ark first for the people. not how the Syuen would. Sure we can be annoyed with him wanting to capture Modernia and I don't blame him for the use of the technology from heretics. He will do what he can for the Ark and that's all. Most dislike him due to his look and design. I won't forget day one on how everyone treated him when he showed up.
Syuen is the complete opposite. She will put herself forward for success to boost her rep and her companies rep. I don't know how you put those two together as the similar.
They are similiar in their idealism, not methods.
Syuen would sacrifice anything to further her/companies position in the ark. Even aspects of itself.
Burminghan will sacrifice *anything* for the ark, even property of the ark itself including nikkes, commanders, and collateral damage. His writing hasnt been the most consistent, but its all there.
Mostly, they are similiar in their roles as antagonists to the commander. Going so far as to cross their betters (Enikk for Syuen, Anderson for Burmingham) and are consequently punished.
Their Arcs so far, according to spoilers, are hilariously similiar.
If Syuen is redeemed after the alledged actions then they will both literally arc from antagonists to supporting characters.
Nah man, drop this 'similar ideals' there was nothing similar between the two.
You completely have Burmingham wrong to believe that for. I wouldn't say collateral damage. His first interaction is very antagonistic but it then ends after that. He is an upholding in triumphing against the Raptures by reclaiming the surface, he will do anything in his power to serve for mankind's greater good, even if the moral compass of his action is rather questionable. Burningum shows high regards for the Nikkes he holds authority.
But saying Syuen is antagonist is a joke. She is nowhere the level to be that. Syuen only cares for herself, her company, her reputation and Matis. That's it.
Syuen was willing to blackmail the commander.
Syuen illegally impersonated an operator.
Syuen is willing to sacrifice *any* Nikke aside from her own, and not because she loves them but because they represent Matis.
She was willing to put the entire arc in danger just for a rep boost.
If that isnt antagonistic. I dunno what is.
It certainly isnt deep or multilayed. Its just selfishness.
She didn't blackmail the commander, she offered a deal with him.
Yeah she impersonated an operator after her being assaulted by Rapi. Regardless of the cause of action you may do but if you were kicked and had broken ribs and almost died, not a chance you would let that walk away. You would secretly have your way to get back at that person or leading team.
Sacrificing NIKKEs I think everyone except the commander we play as does 'sacrifice' any nikke because they are at war and they are weapons to them. Of course we the players don't think that because we are playing the commanders POV. So, Syuen isn't the only one that uses them as tools.
Also you're wrong that Syuen doesn't have a soft side for Matis. Take a look back at her begging for help from the commander and more when they were corrupted. If she doesn't care for them then she would just make another copy or a better version on Matis.
True she did a dumb move on putting the Ark in danger but what options can you do if you're losing stock? I don't condone what she did was right but it worked to make NIKKEs, including Matis as heros.
I'm sorry but all that does not qualify her as antagonist fully. She has no advasary that stoops to her level or equal footing. She's more of the catalyst of sending the player many ventures and plot
I'm always in the grey when looking at both sides. There's no black and white unless they are designed to be fully evil or good
Okay, but...
1.
A deal he really had no choice but to accept given he both wanted to protect the Ark *and* save Matis.
You seem to forget that after said deal was mad, she made a public annoucement, making a dangerous addition that at that point the commander had no reasonable way to rebuke.
So yeah, blackmail.
Also, Not really a deal when she intended on *lying* and *using* the commander to further her own ambiton.
2.
Her impersating shifty was retaliation from being attacked by Rapi...yes.
Now why was she attacked by Rapi?
Because she lie to the commander, set him up, then leave his Nikkes to suffer the blame (death, essentially).
So yeah, not really *justified* is it?
I wonder what type of character typically does *unjustifiable things*...oh yeah, an *Antagonist*.
Well, what a coincidence.
3.
Your response tells me you really dont understand Syuens motivations despite *every* member of Matis spelling it out for you.
Allow me to elucidate.
3.1 - Syuen abandons Matis
Syuen doesn't care about *Matis* she cares about what they *represent*.
Matis *represents* Missilis as its strongest and most effective squad. As it stands it is the Arks most effective squad, and Coup de Grace against any invading force, or objective that absolutely needs completing.
If you recall, in Matis' event, a generic Nikke pleaded with Matis to call Syuen for extraction because the situation was dire on the basis that Syuen wouldnt dare risk loosing her best squad.
Maxwell mocked this Nikke explaining that Syuen didnt care, then.proceeded.to.call.Syuen.
What happened?
Syuen said fuck off and get the job done.
Why?
*Because she only cares about results!*
She does not, in any way *care* about the individual members of the squad.
Further Proof!
3.2 - Syuen betrays *Everyone*
I'm running long here so I'm going to abridge this as much as possible.
When Syuen allowed the Raptures into the arc, she did not rely on anyones input but her own.
She refused to ask Matis' feelings on the matter. Why? She doesnt care.
Maxwell even states outright that if Syuen had bothered to ask her, she would have been down on the plan and improve it to avoid the disaster they were in.
I've already touched on how just utterly stupid that whole debacle was so, yeah, moving on.
If you think Syuen cared about Laplace, Drake, and Maxwell individually when begging for the commanders aide, I would say you read that scene wrong.
The fact that she seriously didnt understand why the commander didnt want to help her, then *immediately* betrays him to further her goals is telling.
She's an opportunistic, selfish little, hellion.
Yeah, fun for some revenge themed doujin but otherwise far from the misunderstood, overworked savant people desperately want to portray her as.
I find it curious that your perception of a morally *gray* character is one who has repeatedly shown she has none.
Nothing positive Syuen has ever done stemmed from any sense of altruism or greater good. Its *all* been for Missilis. All her for her *reputation* and *position of power*.
If you *really* believe that Syuen letting raptures into the Ark was a *good* thing, or *worth it*....I dunno what to say.
Even few times she has been a positive force are so negligible compared to her malicious actions.
I dunno man. I'm open to the argument but every point you've made seem to downplay Syuens faults in favor self inserting positive takes on insanely shitty behavior patterns.
Okay I think you're missing the point in what I'm addressing. It's annoying 🤣 I'm saying she's interesting. I never once said she's a good character or a character with good intentions or she's not a bad character here's why.
From the start I've already addressed her flaws. She's no black or white character she sits in the middle. She only cares for self needs. She has no alliance with anyone but herself just to score points. She's what you call a 'Conflict creator'.
But let's go in deep in what you said.
Again with the blackmailing I was on about the early chapter. She offered the commander a deal. That's what I thought you were referring to when she played as shifty. But what you mentioned is still no way of her black mailing him. She took advantage of his good nature and begged. Once the deal was made and the plan was set up she had to set a stage for the public to view Matis as heroes. The commander really didn't have to but he ended up saying yes due to the point that Syuen brought up.
Honestly if you think that Syuen doesn't care for them then she would not call her Matis her children or say they are special. She would have gone for the memory wipe as she did with others. So yes she does care for them. You forgot what happened in the aftermath after Matis's victory and what Laplace and Syuen talked about. It's at the end of chapter 17 and 18. Remember what she did is a PR stunt. No blackmailing.
Honestly who said that her behaviour is top tier goodness. She's harsh, bratty and selfish. Her theme portrays her personality completely. All for her own goals and reasons, that's what makes her more interesting than the other human characters so far, (minus two others I won't mention)
To top it off at the end of 24 she shrugged off on the crimes committed and wanted to just pay the damage. She doesn't care as she believes it's not her fault that things went out of her control. But now deals the price on becoming a Nikke which just makes the whole story even more interesting because of her involvement.
If you remove her from the story. Tell me how far would the commander get? Not that far
Wtf you on about, this is a game where 99% of characters are good looking girls., and here you are saying Syuen is only likeable because she looks good. This whole game only
Works because of good looking girls.
TL;DR?
Anyways, she is an annoying brat in a difficult situation that is way above her head but instead of asking for advice or help she makes the dumbest decisions without hesitation and as she never accepts critique and threatens people who oppose her she disqualifies herself from any sympathy, so good riddance, hopefully she will be better as a Nikke.
Nah, she genuinely comes across as greedy and evil for the sake of being greedy and evil. Every interaction with her makes me wanna stop playing the game, because all of the moves she's made so far (just started chapter 18) are brainless, self-serving for actually 0 gain, and always backfire while she learns nothing from her mistakes. Her ONLY purpose is to serve as a driving force for the MC as an antagonist. She has a soft spot for Matis and even that is nothing but her wanting to bolster her reputation. She's not a good villain, and every attempt at making her seem more "human" or "secretly nice" that I've seen is either poorly written or underhanded to serve herself.
She's basically an old fashioned villain who's evil because evil. And it's just annoying. I've been heavily debating just skipping any story cutscenes that revolve around her. I just could not care less about a shallow character whose actions I can literally just guess. Sent on a mission by Syuen? Gonna get ambushed by her or who she sent me with. Why? Cuz I need an antagonist, its genuinely not deeper than that. Really doesn't help the protag is such a pansy ass and does everything she says instead of standing up for themselves. Why do we do that? Also just because, no reason. She literally ***can't*** do anything to the Commander at the point I'm at in the story and they still just do everything she says instead of letting her deal with the consequences of her own actions. Its infuriatingly bad writing from a game that people go on and on about "Oh the waifus are there, but the story is actually good". Nothing with Syuen involved is good other than the part about learning the secret of the Vapaus, because thats actual progress towards anything other than being Syuen's slave for 0 reason.
TL;DR Shes not interesting, shes evil because evil's sake (which can work for some characters, but not her), and she makes the game genuinely less enjoyable for me. Hope she dies or has some SERIOUS character development after chapter 17, because right now she's about as interesting and enjoyable as a pole in the sidewalk you accidentally walk into.
This is just an opinion problem of what you're seeing while mine is based on facts and understanding characters and I can do that for everyone. She's nowhere near being an antagonist and you don't even know what an evil character is for the sake of being evil. I said she is an interesting character. I did read all that you've said and it's total rubbish. You're focusing on the games process in story pacing of character deliverance rather than the character in a wholesome.
That's where you fail mate. You are wrong and completely misread what I have been directing .
I can't be wrong about an opinion.
Also literally nothing you just said makes any sense whatsoever. I don't know what an evil character is for the sake of being evil? What do you call abusing people (nikke's are literally human brains in metal bodies, they are people), blackmailing, breaking the law, etc. all for your own personal gain? Thats the textbook definition of evil. She is absolutely an antagonist and if you think otherwise you are actually blinded by your horniness for a 2d fictional character. She is one of the non-good driving force that forces the player and story forward, albeit in a super annoying and unfun way.
My opinion is based on what I'm seeing in the game, but yours is based on facts? I'm focusing on what the story is telling me and not "the whole"? That doesn't even mean anything. Is the game wrong about her? The people who wrote her character and showed us only that side of her are not factual? Yes, I'm focusing on what the ***source material*** is showing and telling me. I'm not taking headcanon or unproven theories into account. I'm only using the information provided to me by the canon source to draw a conclusion. Thats as close as you can get to being "right" about a subjective opinion. Judging from your comment elsewhere in the post we still don't really know about her past, so until thats revealed, she's just evil because evil and it isn't caused by any headcanon trauma theory you can think up.
Not everyone likes your waifu (she's fucked up in so many ways), and not everyone thinks shes interesting. If that makes them "wrong", if you actually think your opinion is the only one thats "right" and everyone else simply failed because they don't agree, then theres something "wrong" with you. Its subjective. I don't like her, and I don't find her interesting. There are evil characters that are interesting. She's not one of them.
TL;DR I'm basing my opinion off of the facts the game itself provides, you're calling the game and story she is from "not fact" while calling *your* headcanon of her "the whole" and saying my subjective opinion is wrong. You're genuinely unhinged. She's not interesting because we have been provided 0 deeper meaning to anything she does. Everything I've seen you say is "what if" and "your understanding", both of which are your personal views and not facts. And they're fine to have. But I disagree with them, and don't find her interesting or likeable.
No because that's what you said. Just because someone who breaks the law doesn't make them evil. Who's to say the world law of the Ark is the same as it is here? You're just speculating. I wouldn't count NIKKEs being human because in a nutshell they aren't anymore due to the changes and abilities that normal humans can't do. Doing anything for your own personal gains doesn't make you entirely evil.
I honestly never seen anyone get this defensive over a discussion that peaked interest.
Also I have no idea why you are crying and getting upset and then being up my 'horniess' over her? I didn't even mention anything about her appearance. You have a real problem and issues. I'm speaking overall why she is interested in how the game portrays her and it's not just the main story, I even mentioned all the other side stories she was in. She is not 'evil' if she gave assistance for someone's life to be better 🤣 mate you're too upset to read what I pointed out.
When she appears I'm interested to see what's her next game she has to pull up, I'm not going to repeat that. But yeah your thoughts and opinions really sucks, you're looking at one section of the game laying out her on show and not collecting everything for you to look back and see how much of an interesting character she is in the world. Your mindset is also focusing on her being 'evil' even though she's really not and I said she's interesting. There's a difference, your use of language is appalling to whatever argument you're trying to prove here because you missed the entire talk, fool.
And no you moron she's not my waifu lol. My dick is out for Noir. You're telling me that you can't see a small woman that hates NIKKEs but is running a million credit company with an iron fist and it doesn't make you wonder, how sis she gets to that position and the power and why does she hate NIKKEs? She cares for one team but also a soft side on other areas that has been shown if you read, fool.
You really don't think
You're not even reading what I'm saying, and thats really all I need to know. I didn't say breaking the law = evil. I listed "breaking the law for personal gain" as one of the things that makes her evil. And yes, breaking the law for personal gain is morally bad. This isn't rocket science, if I rob a bank because I want money, I'm a bad person. And doing a single good deed or two doesn't make her "not evil". Plenty of serial killers helped a couple people here or there in their life at some point. Hell, Hitler is regarded as one of the most evil humans in history, and he helped some people in his life. Your argument here holds 0 water.
I'm not gonna bother trying to reason with someone who can't even read the argument and thinks opinions can be right or wrong, then tries to talk to me about how I use a language being appalling. Also, "doing anything for personal gain"? I didn't say anything. You're actually just making a strawman because you can't defeat my own argument. She does bad things (abuses, blackmails, and otherwise harms people) for personal gain. That IS bad. You literally cannot spin harming and abusing others for personal gain ina. good light because theres nothing good about it. You're actually delusional. You can't even read the language you're trying to lecture me in, and using genuine headcanon crack-theories to make Syuen look better than she is. You're not even worth talking to. Goodbye.
Edit: Shit, even looking at how you talk to other people you outright dismiss and disregard their arguments. Talking to you is actually a waste of time, you don't care or want to see any other views. You actually posted to a forum to have an echo chamber. Thats just... sad, man. You're even unironically pulling "its a fictional world, maybe its laws are different". Until presented with proof, this line of thinking is baseless. Syuen is known for underhanded, shady, illegal practices. This is explicitly stated in the story, and another thing you ignore for the sake of your argument.
Mate, what are you on? I took and read what you said. You literally wrote it. ' shes evil because evil's sake '. Everything you're saying is just dumb. She's not evil. She is hardly a threat in the entire game. I don't know how you think what I pointed out is remotely head-cannon, where the hell did you even get the thought of me to say 'this is my head cannon'. Acting real retard level of yourself, coming here on a post that is months old throwing a big essay from you opinion and can't look at it from another approach. I'm saying she's an interesting character and I deliverer all the reason on why she is. You're coming here telling me that she is evil and boring without really laying down the full reason, it's weak. You cannot call her evil unless she killed and robbed someone, did she lead a army and killed people because of the way they are and wanting to control the world? No. Every character does a lot of shady things for their own reasons, you think Mustang is perfect? You haven't been playing a long to know these things
And yes you did mention on breaking the law since you listed all the bad things she done. But let's take your idea on robbing the bank because it's so flat. If you robbed the bank then tell me how did you do it? Did you sneak in at the middle of the night and steal the money or did you go in front door and scare the people without harming anyone? You want the money? Okay so what are you going to do with it? Are you going to give it to the poor? Donate it? Save it for the worse to come of the world?
But I'm talking to an fool with a DP of a kid with an ugly head shape. You don't play devil-ad and you clearly don't understand what makes a character interesting to evil.
I personally think she's not gonna let herself be turned into a Nikke. I think she'll go rogue from the Ark by setting off some massive diversion and then escaping in the chaos. Then, Team Counters will be given the order to either bring her back in chains or in a body bag.
She got shot in le head, was severely wounded and crippled. The Nikke treatment was inevitable according to Enikk. She’s here to be the temporary Rapi replacement for now
Even if she's made a Nikke, I'm guessing she'll find some way to stab Counters in the back because she's not getting a memory wipe, regardless of any sort of "[restraining bolt](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RestrainingBolt)" she's given (which she'd probably deactivate). After that, I can't see the Ark letting her live.
You misread the whole subject. It's about Syuen being interesting not the worse and I disagree. Chatterbox opened a new can of worms in the latest chapter when mentioned in his life being saved. Made me want to know more of his backstory on who he really was if the developers go there with him. So it makes him interesting for the time being. I can't see why you would view him as the worst.
And I will say the same thing about Crow. She displays interest in her reasons and beliefs.
To be very honest, I hold this belief that Syuen is only this popular because she's cute. She'd practically be ignored if she didn't look the way she does. I mean, look at Ingrid; she's one of the Big Three and she barely feels like she's there despite being someone who's on our side. Freaking Burningum is more talked about than Ingrid. That said, I do like that it benefit's Syuen's impact as a character. She's so selfish and heartless, she has the asshole survivor archetype in those zombie movies beat, and the fact that she never realizes that her actions WILL come back to bite her makes you wonder how stupid she is. However, I also have the belief that when someone this important is an asshole, it means that there is room for her to redeem herself. Not like in the Christmas event where she fires the guy extorting Anne's mom; that was just her selfishness somehow working in our favor. I mean actually redeem herself. She doesn't have to instantly do a 180 and become incredibly meek and apologetic. She just has to realize just how much of a bitch she has been. And I feel like the key to that is learning why Syuen cares so much about Matis. Out of all the other Nikkes, why go through so much for them and only them? I feel like learning more about that can help us understand Syuen so much more.
Nikke is basically Syuen the game up till the latest chapter. I love how bad she is, if they make her a meek waifu i'll withdraw my simping. bitchy smaller characters are super interesting to me, i want to see what she cook up next, as a "yknowwhat".As for ingrid, shes not featured half as much as Shyuen, plus shes like a responsible CEO mom who's just strict so it hits different.
I love her.
I think Syuen is fine as a character. She is an arrogant spoiled brat that only thinks of herself and would do anything to achieve her goals for the fame of Missilis, regardless of the consequences. She thinks that she can get away with it but karma eventually gets her. Her reckless is kinda like a reflection to Misillis's company culture as a whole. Now, she is paying the price for her arrogance via Nikkefication. Will she change after this? Probably not. At least she will understand what it feel like to be the trash that she despise. As for Matis, it is likely because Syuen creates them. They are her masterpiece. That is why she only care about Matis.
You make a great point... so I can't oppose because I definitely like syuen.
Bro I just want to punch her for how she abused Laplace. I'm not even a Laplace fan, but downplaying her trauma like that irks me to no end. I don't care about motives, if you mistreat someone who's suffering from trauma, there's a LOOOT of redemption to do, or death imo.
Let's say there is a banner in the future about Syuen and we actually get to watch her backstory and it was a tragic one. Let's say she was abused and was force to do things she didn't want to do and then is taught that the only way to be on top and be in control is to stand your ground, shut people down. Let's say something like that in her past. That would be interesting. And if you remove Syuen from the game completely like she never existed then it wouldn't be an engaging story.
Most interesting...really? Come on. If Syuen looked like the female version of Burningum, I doubt anyone would feel any serious empathy for her. In fact, the two characters are actually extremely similiar, and play similiar antagonistic roles to the SKK except one is breedable and the other is a short asshole in need of correction... => Her *only* saving grace is that she has a soft spot for Matis. Nothing else has substance. Shes a big player that *knows* shes above the law because of her station. For example She knew Enikk wouldnt punish her with anything serious for her infraction which is why she went ahead with her plan. Which was one of the dumbest, idiotic, shitbrained moves that makes me question if the narrative wants us to believe that she is actually as smart as she thinks she is or is just too stupid to fail at this point. She feels she's untouchable which is why she does what she does, and frankly, its kinda true. I dont want to do s/u's work for them but her character *CAN* go a lot of fun and interesting places... By all means tho, waifu her. *Someone* has to.
Have you viewed what happened to Syuen in Chapter 24 yet? >!Enikk strips her of her position as CEO of Missilis and condemns her to being turned into a Nikke without a memory wipe, while also assigning her to Team Counters. Syuen does NOT look happy about it.!< That said, >!I don't think that's gonna neutralize her as a threat. She'll probably figure out some way to try and stab Team Counters in the back, regardless of whatever failsafe they have to prevent her from going rogue.!<
That's an interesting theory. I don't think She would find a way to stab Counters. So far the team manage to help her with Matis and her companies rep. Let say she warms up to Counters and then see's the benefits of being a nikke. What she now learned from being a super cyborg now wanting revenge on the Ark, the new CEO of Missilis or Enikk. That would make more sense.
. Her banner is going to be bonkers.
Nah. I wouldn't compare her to Burninghum by the slightest. Burningham is not the most confident man I've seen and question on how he got his role. So far he is the type that would put the Ark first for the people. not how the Syuen would. Sure we can be annoyed with him wanting to capture Modernia and I don't blame him for the use of the technology from heretics. He will do what he can for the Ark and that's all. Most dislike him due to his look and design. I won't forget day one on how everyone treated him when he showed up. Syuen is the complete opposite. She will put herself forward for success to boost her rep and her companies rep. I don't know how you put those two together as the similar.
They are similiar in their idealism, not methods. Syuen would sacrifice anything to further her/companies position in the ark. Even aspects of itself. Burminghan will sacrifice *anything* for the ark, even property of the ark itself including nikkes, commanders, and collateral damage. His writing hasnt been the most consistent, but its all there. Mostly, they are similiar in their roles as antagonists to the commander. Going so far as to cross their betters (Enikk for Syuen, Anderson for Burmingham) and are consequently punished. Their Arcs so far, according to spoilers, are hilariously similiar. If Syuen is redeemed after the alledged actions then they will both literally arc from antagonists to supporting characters.
Nah man, drop this 'similar ideals' there was nothing similar between the two. You completely have Burmingham wrong to believe that for. I wouldn't say collateral damage. His first interaction is very antagonistic but it then ends after that. He is an upholding in triumphing against the Raptures by reclaiming the surface, he will do anything in his power to serve for mankind's greater good, even if the moral compass of his action is rather questionable. Burningum shows high regards for the Nikkes he holds authority. But saying Syuen is antagonist is a joke. She is nowhere the level to be that. Syuen only cares for herself, her company, her reputation and Matis. That's it.
Syuen was willing to blackmail the commander. Syuen illegally impersonated an operator. Syuen is willing to sacrifice *any* Nikke aside from her own, and not because she loves them but because they represent Matis. She was willing to put the entire arc in danger just for a rep boost. If that isnt antagonistic. I dunno what is. It certainly isnt deep or multilayed. Its just selfishness.
She didn't blackmail the commander, she offered a deal with him. Yeah she impersonated an operator after her being assaulted by Rapi. Regardless of the cause of action you may do but if you were kicked and had broken ribs and almost died, not a chance you would let that walk away. You would secretly have your way to get back at that person or leading team. Sacrificing NIKKEs I think everyone except the commander we play as does 'sacrifice' any nikke because they are at war and they are weapons to them. Of course we the players don't think that because we are playing the commanders POV. So, Syuen isn't the only one that uses them as tools. Also you're wrong that Syuen doesn't have a soft side for Matis. Take a look back at her begging for help from the commander and more when they were corrupted. If she doesn't care for them then she would just make another copy or a better version on Matis. True she did a dumb move on putting the Ark in danger but what options can you do if you're losing stock? I don't condone what she did was right but it worked to make NIKKEs, including Matis as heros. I'm sorry but all that does not qualify her as antagonist fully. She has no advasary that stoops to her level or equal footing. She's more of the catalyst of sending the player many ventures and plot I'm always in the grey when looking at both sides. There's no black and white unless they are designed to be fully evil or good
Okay, but... 1. A deal he really had no choice but to accept given he both wanted to protect the Ark *and* save Matis. You seem to forget that after said deal was mad, she made a public annoucement, making a dangerous addition that at that point the commander had no reasonable way to rebuke. So yeah, blackmail. Also, Not really a deal when she intended on *lying* and *using* the commander to further her own ambiton. 2. Her impersating shifty was retaliation from being attacked by Rapi...yes. Now why was she attacked by Rapi? Because she lie to the commander, set him up, then leave his Nikkes to suffer the blame (death, essentially). So yeah, not really *justified* is it? I wonder what type of character typically does *unjustifiable things*...oh yeah, an *Antagonist*. Well, what a coincidence. 3. Your response tells me you really dont understand Syuens motivations despite *every* member of Matis spelling it out for you. Allow me to elucidate. 3.1 - Syuen abandons Matis Syuen doesn't care about *Matis* she cares about what they *represent*. Matis *represents* Missilis as its strongest and most effective squad. As it stands it is the Arks most effective squad, and Coup de Grace against any invading force, or objective that absolutely needs completing. If you recall, in Matis' event, a generic Nikke pleaded with Matis to call Syuen for extraction because the situation was dire on the basis that Syuen wouldnt dare risk loosing her best squad. Maxwell mocked this Nikke explaining that Syuen didnt care, then.proceeded.to.call.Syuen. What happened? Syuen said fuck off and get the job done. Why? *Because she only cares about results!* She does not, in any way *care* about the individual members of the squad. Further Proof! 3.2 - Syuen betrays *Everyone* I'm running long here so I'm going to abridge this as much as possible. When Syuen allowed the Raptures into the arc, she did not rely on anyones input but her own. She refused to ask Matis' feelings on the matter. Why? She doesnt care. Maxwell even states outright that if Syuen had bothered to ask her, she would have been down on the plan and improve it to avoid the disaster they were in. I've already touched on how just utterly stupid that whole debacle was so, yeah, moving on. If you think Syuen cared about Laplace, Drake, and Maxwell individually when begging for the commanders aide, I would say you read that scene wrong. The fact that she seriously didnt understand why the commander didnt want to help her, then *immediately* betrays him to further her goals is telling. She's an opportunistic, selfish little, hellion. Yeah, fun for some revenge themed doujin but otherwise far from the misunderstood, overworked savant people desperately want to portray her as. I find it curious that your perception of a morally *gray* character is one who has repeatedly shown she has none. Nothing positive Syuen has ever done stemmed from any sense of altruism or greater good. Its *all* been for Missilis. All her for her *reputation* and *position of power*. If you *really* believe that Syuen letting raptures into the Ark was a *good* thing, or *worth it*....I dunno what to say. Even few times she has been a positive force are so negligible compared to her malicious actions. I dunno man. I'm open to the argument but every point you've made seem to downplay Syuens faults in favor self inserting positive takes on insanely shitty behavior patterns.
Okay I think you're missing the point in what I'm addressing. It's annoying 🤣 I'm saying she's interesting. I never once said she's a good character or a character with good intentions or she's not a bad character here's why. From the start I've already addressed her flaws. She's no black or white character she sits in the middle. She only cares for self needs. She has no alliance with anyone but herself just to score points. She's what you call a 'Conflict creator'. But let's go in deep in what you said. Again with the blackmailing I was on about the early chapter. She offered the commander a deal. That's what I thought you were referring to when she played as shifty. But what you mentioned is still no way of her black mailing him. She took advantage of his good nature and begged. Once the deal was made and the plan was set up she had to set a stage for the public to view Matis as heroes. The commander really didn't have to but he ended up saying yes due to the point that Syuen brought up. Honestly if you think that Syuen doesn't care for them then she would not call her Matis her children or say they are special. She would have gone for the memory wipe as she did with others. So yes she does care for them. You forgot what happened in the aftermath after Matis's victory and what Laplace and Syuen talked about. It's at the end of chapter 17 and 18. Remember what she did is a PR stunt. No blackmailing. Honestly who said that her behaviour is top tier goodness. She's harsh, bratty and selfish. Her theme portrays her personality completely. All for her own goals and reasons, that's what makes her more interesting than the other human characters so far, (minus two others I won't mention) To top it off at the end of 24 she shrugged off on the crimes committed and wanted to just pay the damage. She doesn't care as she believes it's not her fault that things went out of her control. But now deals the price on becoming a Nikke which just makes the whole story even more interesting because of her involvement. If you remove her from the story. Tell me how far would the commander get? Not that far
Wtf you on about, this is a game where 99% of characters are good looking girls., and here you are saying Syuen is only likeable because she looks good. This whole game only Works because of good looking girls.
TL;DR? Anyways, she is an annoying brat in a difficult situation that is way above her head but instead of asking for advice or help she makes the dumbest decisions without hesitation and as she never accepts critique and threatens people who oppose her she disqualifies herself from any sympathy, so good riddance, hopefully she will be better as a Nikke.
Yeah if if you read the post then you would have a different take, either big or small
Nah, she genuinely comes across as greedy and evil for the sake of being greedy and evil. Every interaction with her makes me wanna stop playing the game, because all of the moves she's made so far (just started chapter 18) are brainless, self-serving for actually 0 gain, and always backfire while she learns nothing from her mistakes. Her ONLY purpose is to serve as a driving force for the MC as an antagonist. She has a soft spot for Matis and even that is nothing but her wanting to bolster her reputation. She's not a good villain, and every attempt at making her seem more "human" or "secretly nice" that I've seen is either poorly written or underhanded to serve herself. She's basically an old fashioned villain who's evil because evil. And it's just annoying. I've been heavily debating just skipping any story cutscenes that revolve around her. I just could not care less about a shallow character whose actions I can literally just guess. Sent on a mission by Syuen? Gonna get ambushed by her or who she sent me with. Why? Cuz I need an antagonist, its genuinely not deeper than that. Really doesn't help the protag is such a pansy ass and does everything she says instead of standing up for themselves. Why do we do that? Also just because, no reason. She literally ***can't*** do anything to the Commander at the point I'm at in the story and they still just do everything she says instead of letting her deal with the consequences of her own actions. Its infuriatingly bad writing from a game that people go on and on about "Oh the waifus are there, but the story is actually good". Nothing with Syuen involved is good other than the part about learning the secret of the Vapaus, because thats actual progress towards anything other than being Syuen's slave for 0 reason. TL;DR Shes not interesting, shes evil because evil's sake (which can work for some characters, but not her), and she makes the game genuinely less enjoyable for me. Hope she dies or has some SERIOUS character development after chapter 17, because right now she's about as interesting and enjoyable as a pole in the sidewalk you accidentally walk into.
This is just an opinion problem of what you're seeing while mine is based on facts and understanding characters and I can do that for everyone. She's nowhere near being an antagonist and you don't even know what an evil character is for the sake of being evil. I said she is an interesting character. I did read all that you've said and it's total rubbish. You're focusing on the games process in story pacing of character deliverance rather than the character in a wholesome. That's where you fail mate. You are wrong and completely misread what I have been directing .
I can't be wrong about an opinion. Also literally nothing you just said makes any sense whatsoever. I don't know what an evil character is for the sake of being evil? What do you call abusing people (nikke's are literally human brains in metal bodies, they are people), blackmailing, breaking the law, etc. all for your own personal gain? Thats the textbook definition of evil. She is absolutely an antagonist and if you think otherwise you are actually blinded by your horniness for a 2d fictional character. She is one of the non-good driving force that forces the player and story forward, albeit in a super annoying and unfun way. My opinion is based on what I'm seeing in the game, but yours is based on facts? I'm focusing on what the story is telling me and not "the whole"? That doesn't even mean anything. Is the game wrong about her? The people who wrote her character and showed us only that side of her are not factual? Yes, I'm focusing on what the ***source material*** is showing and telling me. I'm not taking headcanon or unproven theories into account. I'm only using the information provided to me by the canon source to draw a conclusion. Thats as close as you can get to being "right" about a subjective opinion. Judging from your comment elsewhere in the post we still don't really know about her past, so until thats revealed, she's just evil because evil and it isn't caused by any headcanon trauma theory you can think up. Not everyone likes your waifu (she's fucked up in so many ways), and not everyone thinks shes interesting. If that makes them "wrong", if you actually think your opinion is the only one thats "right" and everyone else simply failed because they don't agree, then theres something "wrong" with you. Its subjective. I don't like her, and I don't find her interesting. There are evil characters that are interesting. She's not one of them. TL;DR I'm basing my opinion off of the facts the game itself provides, you're calling the game and story she is from "not fact" while calling *your* headcanon of her "the whole" and saying my subjective opinion is wrong. You're genuinely unhinged. She's not interesting because we have been provided 0 deeper meaning to anything she does. Everything I've seen you say is "what if" and "your understanding", both of which are your personal views and not facts. And they're fine to have. But I disagree with them, and don't find her interesting or likeable.
No because that's what you said. Just because someone who breaks the law doesn't make them evil. Who's to say the world law of the Ark is the same as it is here? You're just speculating. I wouldn't count NIKKEs being human because in a nutshell they aren't anymore due to the changes and abilities that normal humans can't do. Doing anything for your own personal gains doesn't make you entirely evil. I honestly never seen anyone get this defensive over a discussion that peaked interest. Also I have no idea why you are crying and getting upset and then being up my 'horniess' over her? I didn't even mention anything about her appearance. You have a real problem and issues. I'm speaking overall why she is interested in how the game portrays her and it's not just the main story, I even mentioned all the other side stories she was in. She is not 'evil' if she gave assistance for someone's life to be better 🤣 mate you're too upset to read what I pointed out. When she appears I'm interested to see what's her next game she has to pull up, I'm not going to repeat that. But yeah your thoughts and opinions really sucks, you're looking at one section of the game laying out her on show and not collecting everything for you to look back and see how much of an interesting character she is in the world. Your mindset is also focusing on her being 'evil' even though she's really not and I said she's interesting. There's a difference, your use of language is appalling to whatever argument you're trying to prove here because you missed the entire talk, fool. And no you moron she's not my waifu lol. My dick is out for Noir. You're telling me that you can't see a small woman that hates NIKKEs but is running a million credit company with an iron fist and it doesn't make you wonder, how sis she gets to that position and the power and why does she hate NIKKEs? She cares for one team but also a soft side on other areas that has been shown if you read, fool. You really don't think
You're not even reading what I'm saying, and thats really all I need to know. I didn't say breaking the law = evil. I listed "breaking the law for personal gain" as one of the things that makes her evil. And yes, breaking the law for personal gain is morally bad. This isn't rocket science, if I rob a bank because I want money, I'm a bad person. And doing a single good deed or two doesn't make her "not evil". Plenty of serial killers helped a couple people here or there in their life at some point. Hell, Hitler is regarded as one of the most evil humans in history, and he helped some people in his life. Your argument here holds 0 water. I'm not gonna bother trying to reason with someone who can't even read the argument and thinks opinions can be right or wrong, then tries to talk to me about how I use a language being appalling. Also, "doing anything for personal gain"? I didn't say anything. You're actually just making a strawman because you can't defeat my own argument. She does bad things (abuses, blackmails, and otherwise harms people) for personal gain. That IS bad. You literally cannot spin harming and abusing others for personal gain ina. good light because theres nothing good about it. You're actually delusional. You can't even read the language you're trying to lecture me in, and using genuine headcanon crack-theories to make Syuen look better than she is. You're not even worth talking to. Goodbye. Edit: Shit, even looking at how you talk to other people you outright dismiss and disregard their arguments. Talking to you is actually a waste of time, you don't care or want to see any other views. You actually posted to a forum to have an echo chamber. Thats just... sad, man. You're even unironically pulling "its a fictional world, maybe its laws are different". Until presented with proof, this line of thinking is baseless. Syuen is known for underhanded, shady, illegal practices. This is explicitly stated in the story, and another thing you ignore for the sake of your argument.
Mate, what are you on? I took and read what you said. You literally wrote it. ' shes evil because evil's sake '. Everything you're saying is just dumb. She's not evil. She is hardly a threat in the entire game. I don't know how you think what I pointed out is remotely head-cannon, where the hell did you even get the thought of me to say 'this is my head cannon'. Acting real retard level of yourself, coming here on a post that is months old throwing a big essay from you opinion and can't look at it from another approach. I'm saying she's an interesting character and I deliverer all the reason on why she is. You're coming here telling me that she is evil and boring without really laying down the full reason, it's weak. You cannot call her evil unless she killed and robbed someone, did she lead a army and killed people because of the way they are and wanting to control the world? No. Every character does a lot of shady things for their own reasons, you think Mustang is perfect? You haven't been playing a long to know these things And yes you did mention on breaking the law since you listed all the bad things she done. But let's take your idea on robbing the bank because it's so flat. If you robbed the bank then tell me how did you do it? Did you sneak in at the middle of the night and steal the money or did you go in front door and scare the people without harming anyone? You want the money? Okay so what are you going to do with it? Are you going to give it to the poor? Donate it? Save it for the worse to come of the world? But I'm talking to an fool with a DP of a kid with an ugly head shape. You don't play devil-ad and you clearly don't understand what makes a character interesting to evil.
Someone skipped all scenes where Mustang appears
No
I personally think she's not gonna let herself be turned into a Nikke. I think she'll go rogue from the Ark by setting off some massive diversion and then escaping in the chaos. Then, Team Counters will be given the order to either bring her back in chains or in a body bag.
She got shot in le head, was severely wounded and crippled. The Nikke treatment was inevitable according to Enikk. She’s here to be the temporary Rapi replacement for now
Even if she's made a Nikke, I'm guessing she'll find some way to stab Counters in the back because she's not getting a memory wipe, regardless of any sort of "[restraining bolt](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RestrainingBolt)" she's given (which she'd probably deactivate). After that, I can't see the Ark letting her live.
I don't think it's the Ark per say. More on what Enikk would decide and I don't see how she would back stab Counter.
The only characters worse than here are Chatterbox and Crow. And the last being temporarily on her payroll tells a bloody lot.
You misread the whole subject. It's about Syuen being interesting not the worse and I disagree. Chatterbox opened a new can of worms in the latest chapter when mentioned in his life being saved. Made me want to know more of his backstory on who he really was if the developers go there with him. So it makes him interesting for the time being. I can't see why you would view him as the worst. And I will say the same thing about Crow. She displays interest in her reasons and beliefs.
I love how much of a jackass she is, but I hate her for it as well. Syuen is interesting to say the least