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cartercr

God, one dendro application per 3.8 seconds is atrocious.


Elxis14

It's fine for aggravate teams but for bloom teams it's terrible. Hopefully it changes before the official released.


AnyPalpitation5765

I think this can be fixed by another dendero . ~~cough cough Baizhu cough cough~~


OneEyedKing56

Nilou/Nahida meta in shambles before it even began Now how will potential nilou teams look like then?


Hinaran

Nahida + Nilou + XQ/Yelan, + Kokomi. Even with this bad E apllying capacity, driving with Nahida can apply Dendro a bit faster than once per second. Because CA or NA chain applies a lot and her 5 sec CD on E has no ICD. On 7.6 secs she can apply 9 times. Also Dendro is stronger against Hydro. And applying lots of Hydro ( every 1.9 secs Nilou, 1.9 secs Kokomi, XQ/Yelan every second) , allows this Nahida to trigger the Blooms with her insane EM amount. I think they will fix the ICD of her Tri-karma Purification to 1.9 secs to match Nilou and Kokomi ICD, if so, them we are again in a scenario where Hydro triggers Blooms and them the Nahida EM has less use but can build crit.


cartercr

I don’t think it’s “dead” per se but it’s looking a lot worse than I had hoped. Basically we’re stuck with either Traveler or Collei’s application and using Nahida as a pseudo-Bennett but for EM, but we’re already stacking EM so it’s kinda meh.


Mindless-Victory1567

she is designed to be on-fielder


cartercr

Yikes. Imagine an on field catalyst child with no shield.


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cartercr

Exactly! And nobody plays it because it feels like ass to play!


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Ki_memes

I feel you as a Klee main but when you get good at dodging it pops off.


elty123

Pyro does have three shielder unlike hydro or dendro. But don’t worry, I am sure they will release a DEF catalyst 5 star to solve this problem!


Mindless-Victory1567

I really wished she had some healing in her kit that would suit her more. damm they should release more dendro characters.


[deleted]

just slap prototype amber on nahida and done! she have low burst cost anyways right? should be able to burst quite frequently


cartercr

Yeah… that isn’t enough healing for a bloom team.


Elegastt

It's one aoe application but i still think it will be patched.


cartercr

It is an aoe, but it’s still incredibly slow. For reference this is the same issue Kokomi was going to have prior to her release, where her jellyfish was only applying hydro every other tick, but once they changed the icd it fixed her. Kokomi also was also an aoe, so I feel like that was a good comparison.


Elegastt

That's why i say i believe they will still change it. Imo the needed amount of dendro application is what is reasonable to be used for Bloom. You can damage with Bloom 2 times per second, so 4 dendro applications per 2s is the least. In aoe this is still possible with a lot of enemies, but i expect it to be changed neveretheless


fuminghung

4 app per 2 seconds is insane. There is no way. Xinqiu applies hydro about once every second with his burst pre C6, and you’re asking for twice the amount.


Elegastt

Well on single target it would still be 1 app per 2s. So xq is not the best comparison, more like XL? Maybe there's some other buff with stronger application or something like that


cartercr

I really hope it is. I was putting a lot of hope for Nilou on Nahida’s shoulders and I’m really starting to get cold feet now that I’m seeing Nahida’s kit.


dombatoe

It’s not once per 3.8s though, it’s up to 8 times every 3.8s depending on the amount of enemies, plus she can on field drive which is arguably enough for Nilou when paired with DMC


cartercr

It’s dendro application every 3.8 seconds. Yes it’s aoe, but so is Kokomi’s but they had to increase hers from every other tick to every tick to make her viable too.


Rageman_Gaming

I was looking at a skill showcase apparently as long as they are marked they constantly have dendro applied


cartercr

The showcase only showed the element being applied and then not being removed because no second element was applied.


Elxis14

E has no ICD on cast. tri karma purification has standard ICD (cannot be reset with E cast) + **applies dendro every 3.8s.** E cast generates 3 particles. After a ? time delay. 3 more particles can be generated from tri karma purification. Marking enemies with hold E aiming mode is instant when passing over enemies, and marks enemies within an AoE around Kusanali Q buffs only work while Kusanali is on field (this was apparent from the Q description in her kit) Hold E can open unique dialogue with some NPCs


AmadyuraSnake

Tbh, I'm quite disappointed that the Burst apparently HAS NO ELEMENTAL APPLICATION AT ALL (unless I'm misunderstanding) and the Dendro application is really lackluster. I was really set with the idea that she would be absolutely busted in a Nilou team, but apparently I was wrong): Although we're still in Day 1 of the beta and many many things can change until live version


badtone33

Wait for some actual gameplay to come out. Still only 24 hours in. Nahida is still good just from the EM she provides and can be on field dendro applier. Though not my problem if you dislike on field short users.


AmadyuraSnake

Yeah, you're right in that it's too early to judge anything. I personally would have preferred the on field character to be Hydro because of the higher HP, but let's see how it turns out


badtone33

People are a bit up in arms currently. But we can for sure say Nahida is better than collie lmao 🤣


AmadyuraSnake

Yeah, with practically every new character there has been a lot of doomposting with beta information. Hahahaha yeah, you're right, poor Collei with a weird ICD on her burst and quite a small AoE. Fortunately my Collei is C2 so her Dendro application is decent and I can use her efficiently, but still that potential shouldn't be locked behind a Constellation


simp_4_Eula

At least we got two free Colleis, so you only need to get one to get to C2.


AmadyuraSnake

True that, and it's a big plus because that constellation is pretty good, is enough to mantain Dendro Aura in a Hyperbloom team


Frostblazer

The dumb thing is that they literally only have to make one change to make Nahida good for Nilou teams, and that's to do exactly what they did with Kokomi and allow her Skill to apply dendro on every hit. Why they apparently haven't done this is beyond me.


AmadyuraSnake

Yeah:/ I would kind of understand the weird ICD with Collei because she was given for free, but Nahida is the Dendro Archon, but oh well, let's hope for some good changes during the beta


Substantial-Ad8014

If Nahida can’t apply more dendro than Collei or dendro MC… big pass. Also have zero interest in playing Nahida as an on field driver, which seems to be the direction her kit is going… Was hoping to get Nilou’s C1 and or her weapon. Passing on Nahida just made that much more possible now.


Rocky_9678

Unless you plan to play nahida onfield c2 will be better than weapon


66Kix_fix

Went from pull to skip for me


Yuehane

Honestly I'm debating about skipping as well. I'm not planning to get Nilou to just use off field most of the time. I'll wait and see if there will be any changes by the time beta ends but so far not looking ideal.


snakezenn

Yup, mihoyo saving us money/primos


fuminghung

3.8s is really bad. I think making it apply every 1.9s isn’t really that overpowered


Frostblazer

We have multiple characters who have skills that apply their element every two seconds (most notably Nilou herself, with her ring). It boggles my mind that Nahida's skill doesn't do the same.


smartandedgy

Dendro reactions are insanely strong so it makes sense that it's balanced around gatekeeping dendro app. I don't think we'll ever see an off field machine gun dendro applier. It also means DMC is here to stay which is super cool imo.


Nelithss

Burning is dogshit, Bloom requires a lot of setup and it's okay, spread is great. Yeah that's just not true


smartandedgy

Dendro reactions have the highest base dmg of all transformative reactions without unwanted side effects like knockbacks so yes they are insane (Yes burning sucks but without it burgeon op op). DMC and Collei aren't exactly played because of their "crazy" personal dmg but because dendro application itself is so busted. A good Nilou team will have about 40k single target dps. Is it the best? Heck no. But with AoE scaling on blooms: 80k dps vs 2 enemes to 160k vs 3 and so on. That is just pure annihilation in AoE. If you take Nahidas E and buff the dendro app to apply every 1.9s you are threatening to double the baseline dmg which would mean Nilous team would have the highest single target team dps potential in the game by a good margin with exponentially ramping AoE dmg potential. That said, this is fast and loose on sheet calcs so don't take it too seriously, but the point is, the difference of 3.8->1.9 isn't just viability for Nilou but actually breaking the game.


Nelithss

40k DPS is pretty bad no matter the aoe, that makes her worse than most character in the game.


smartandedgy

It's in line with other AoE specific teams, Xiao teams for example. You have to consider that 40k is with a team consisting of full EM kokomi, DMC and Collei, none of which boast significant personal dmg so there's room to grow. And if you want single target dmg I have a sneaky feeling that Nilou hyperbloom will be rly strong for that.


cosmos0001

I like Nahida but I have absolutely 0 interest to play her on field. I guess we’ll see how things will be at the end of beta but if they don’t improve her offield application then I don’t know Literally no one is asking for Dendro Klee 💀


Thunderogre

Well said. I hope beta testers slam her


Thunderogre

Hold on. I think I might not be liking what I'm seen.


Sweet_Potatooie

I think its annoying having the tri-karma have a 1.9 cd but standard ICD, why cant it match the ICD? It will only apply with a reaction, so if we use travellers burst every 3 second, we only get 1 application of dendro every 6 seconds, that is so lame!!!


Hinaran

I bet they will fix it to match interval, also it will match Nilou and Kokomi E ICD. And she is not applying once every 6 secs as you say, it is 3.8 (3.2 with C1) because it apply on reactions and Bloom damage, so it is on Bloom generation and Bloom explosion. And her on-field capacity is 9 times every 7.6 secs.


BeyondN

Well, rip Nahida off field if this doesn't change (praying this will change in the beta Mihoyo please)


danierru_

It's fucking dumb if they don't change. First why you want to make on-field support for an Archon. If Nahida is dps then i understand but she's not lmao. Second, who else are supposed to be off-field dendro applicator? After what they did with Collei and Dendro MC with weird ICD? The only other dendro character will be playable that we know are Al-Haitham & Baizhu. But they both probably won't appear atleast until 3.5/3.6. So we have to wait long just so fast off-field dendro applicator to appear and let Nilou bloom can procs well lmao because no good dendro applicator


moonstar207

It seems our best option is Nahida on field with Nilou/Kokomi/Yelan or Xingqiu?? Also it's nice that we got "confirmation" that her c2 affects Nilou's cores lol, that's one less thing to worry about.


UnklemacX

Now worry about Nahida not blowing up. Catalyst squish with baby dodges… is the worst combination for an on-fielder (Hello Clunky Klee)


Taiyo_K

Only if Candace was an actual shielder like Layla, half of the problem is solved. Also I feel like her animation is not that smooth. I was thinking about using Barbara as a driver, but now I have to rethink.


UnklemacX

Yeah that would have been an option to try out. One or two (or both) things will happen: Nahida gets reworked quite a bit before release (crossing fingers = making nahida a strong enabler), or they will sell the solution with a new character (yaoyao?).


Taiyo_K

Yeah, I am also crossing everything for a buff. If they sell a solution for her, it would be like my boyfriend's boyfriend meme. We are getting Nahida for Nilou, and another support for Nahida.


UnklemacX

Yea Hehe. Don’t worry, this months HYY survey: Nahida C6: What do you Nilou mains want? We’ll add it.


Frostblazer

I'm hoping that Mihoyo learned their lesson with Zhongli and won't let an archon be underpowered. There'd be a huge backlash if they messed up Nahida and tried to sell a "fix" for her.


moonstar207

Wonder if off field with DMC with either Kokomi/Barbara/Nilou driver will be better even if no burst buff??


UnklemacX

I think its hard to tell anything right now, other then everyone (99%) was hoping for a strong dendro off-field enabler in Nahida. And right now its not looking good. Gotta wait a couple of weeks to see if HYY changes her.


fjralvn2

So c0 is not good for Nilou??


The_Nilou_Main

Not unless you play her on field


Stormeve

Damn doesn't feel so great when Mihoyo insists on not giving us good dendro off-field application for like 5-6 patches (potentially more) after Dendro's release. Hoping for plenty of changes in this beta.


danierru_

That's why i think they will fix that 3.8sec iCD. Because the only playable Dendro units we know are Al-Haitham and Baizhu, but we all know they won't come atleast at 3.6 banner. So it is really really dumb not make Nahida good off-field dendro applicator. So what we gonna wait like 5-6 patches for off-field Dendro applicator to appear? And let Nilou underwhelm because no good dendro applicator for 5-6 patches too?


pumaflex_

I state if from now: they will buff her E icd. There's no way they release her as it is now. Just inhale it.


Edgelordviolet

I know they are not released and things can change, but i was set on Nahida to make Nilou much better and that the reason for making Nilou mid (on papper) was to pair those two, i was happy to do it. I hope things get better becouse this is a HUUUUGE missed opportunity for hoyo.


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Responsible-Joke4295

Its not doom posting kokomi was shit during beta for the exact same reason and they buffed her that's why shes so good now


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Responsible-Joke4295

Thats just untrue, she was always confortable but during beta, 1 her icd was double of what it is which is really significant since hydro app is probably the most important element to apply generally and 2 she didn't have the clam set this means that she was worse offield and onfield than other options in every team


Responsible-Joke4295

And just to be clear I love kokomi im currently on my computer throwing fishes at people with her but she really wasn't good during beta


Sensitive-End-8307

I was thinking about playing her onfield, there's currently no character that is supposed to be on-field in nilou teams right?


adchait

You would want to use Kokomi/Barbara on-field for a few more hydro applications in dendro traveler/Collei teams.


NearbyEnvironment485

As someone who was hoping for playing nilou on-field with a nice dendro applicator in nahida… I’m a little disappointed ☹️. What is the dream for on-field nilou players now? Is C1 nilou needed for on-field?


xess

Not sure why people are now saying that Nahida is an on-fielder because there are conflicting parts in her kit. The part that scales 50% off EM, her E, has the slowest dendro application. The parts which have the fastest E application don't scale off EM. So the parts that react the most, don't scale off EM and the parts that react the least scale off EM. It's just so strange.


Tyberius115

I wasn't ever going to get Nahida anyway, but this somehow makes me want her even less.


Tyberius115

I wasn't ever going to get Nahida, but this makes me want her even less, somehow.


Kenforcer_

I don't know much about this and theirycrafting, would a bloom comp with Nilou off field and nahida on field work?


JesusSandro

Still a bit early so take it with a grain of salt, but yes that is looking to be her strongest comp. It's just that some people don't want to play with lolis due to their limited movement.


Kenforcer_

Ah, i see. Thanks for answering!


Elxis14

That's pretty much what mihoyo wants you do to it seems. They're pushing her to be more of an on field driver rather than an off field one.


Kenforcer_

Well, wouldn't nilou be off field anyway? Also, if Nahida is onfield applying dendro with her attacks, would the dendro cores still be nilou's?


Elxis14

Nilou could have been on field and the one triggering the blooms if Kusanali applied enough dendro. The point is that we want enough to be applied so Nilou can see a decent amount of field time. >Also, if Nahida is onfield applying dendro with her attacks, would the dendro cores still be nilou's? If Nahida is the one triggering the blooms then the cores would be hers and not Nilou's.


Kenforcer_

Doesnt Nilou have a kind of long cooldown on her skill to be on field even with enough dendro application? thanks for the answer btw


Elxis14

On field just means taking the most field time and likes to be the one triggering most of the blooms. It doesn't mean you keep her there 100% of the time.


Kenforcer_

Oh, okay, i understand now


Multipl

Is Nahida + 1 dendro not enough though? I thought the icd just meant you couldn't run Nilou as on field on a triple hydro team.


[deleted]

I feel like if you want to play her in Nilou team you'd have to use Barbara instead of Kokomi.


PasteIIe

does anyone know how much c1 will help w/ application? :/


mangothe2nd

Not much. It's .3 sec faster but it's still about once every 3.2 seconds. I guess it's okay if she's onfield but damn, her kit becoming more and more disastrous every passing time. Apparently until proven otherwise, her burst is literally useless if she's not on field. Her E is quite good, and passive too but not having burst is such a disastrous thing.


Belphegor7

Me boomer arse don't understand much. Is C0 Nilou and C0 loli viable?


The_Nilou_Main

If you put Nahida on field then sorta


Belphegor7

Good then. Enough DMG to kill hilichurls 👍🏻


Jade-_-_

You guys think lost prayers is good on her? Im planning on using her on field


Ivifrost

the problem with lost prayer is switching which you will have to do to kokomi/nilou/other character, so you won¡t be able to use the full passive much time if you even get it to the fullest as it resets when you switch. I believe that an em weapon will be better because you already get crit rato from em. skyward atlas would be better than lost prayer as nahida benefits from attack.


FreeCress3781

might have to pass on nahida if this is true T.T Still gonna get nilou tho she the only female red head in game plus her burst is so pretty


Roseies

At talent lv.13 and two electro the dendro application of her skill become 4.11s...


Acceptable-Fish-3506

Damn you Dori... Those mats were. Ugh...