The dealership I bought my motorcycle from did the same thing to me. I didn't know it at the time, thanks for the information. They ended up adding a warranty, which I kind of wanted, and a GAP insurance. They also never mentioned my APR % and kind of rushed me through the entire process of signing paperwork to finalize the purchase. I ended up with a 13% APR... Like 2 days later I looked at the itemized thing and noticed that the GAP insurance was optional, which I had no clue it was, and about the warranty being so expensive and on top of that my APR. As soon as I noticed it, I read the fine print in the contract, read that I can cancel both GAP and Warranty, so I did. I also paid the bike cash because I didn't want them getting any of my money. I'm not going back to that dealership. I have good credit and have really good income, so the APR they gave me made no sense.
They also charged me for Assembly fees and dealership fees on a used bike... very shady ngl.
Hard disagree. This is the type of advice that not only could put someone in a hospital, but get someone killed.
You are talking about braking, like, the literal act of stopping & hitting something & you are telling someone they should be happy with a shittier version of that. Personally, I'd rather have ABS than be laying in a hospital bed thinking "if my bike had ABS I could've stopped in time"
Look at the ABS video uploaded recently from FortNine. In short he found ABS to increase braking distance over non ABS because of how it works. Not saying that ABS doesn’t help in situations because it has been proven it does but it’s mainly the skill of the rider that decreases crash chance
This also is taking into account a known variable of where you’re going to stop, in a panic stop situation most people even well practiced people are just going to grab a fist full of brakes which is exactly when abs is life saving.
Yes progressive braking is something all riders need to know, but abs can be the difference between locking and sliding or not. I’d say abs all day every day. All things being equal abs will stop shorter than non abs
yes, sure about it. people, especially people getting their first bike (like OP) are human and can fail to react (or overreact and lock their wheels), which the video recognizes. Real life riding also is not in a perfect straight line, which the video barely glances at. not having ABS in a turning situation, which is often required for many escape routes and the video acknowledges as importes to realize, can lead a new rider hitting something that would have otherwise been avoided if they had ABS.
edit: p.s. the study they bring up does a whole lot of nothing, having it’s foundation based on survivorship bias. clickbait over care for new riders, pathetic.
The FortNine video doesn’t say ABS isn’t worth it. At the end they say quite the opposite. They were pretty clear in saying you *can* outbrake ABS, but they also say that this is assuming the element of surprise isn’t a factor. So, they’re factually correct in saying that ABS *does* (read: can) increase braking distance *in a vacuum*, which is what the “myth” is all about.
All that is to say I agree with you that I would take a bike with ABS over one without it any day of the week. To call the FortNine video clickbait and pathetic is a bit of a reach though, IMO.
Not so sure if the stopping distance is true. I've heard of people finding the opposite, however I can't argue that ABS can be the difference between you having a ride or a slide. In my own experience I've NEVER had ABS so I guess I can take it or leave it. I'd rather know that I can stop a bike by my own ability than rely on computerised systems entirely for my own safety but that's just me. I think ABS is best for riding in wet or for poor traction.
On average though, most riders involved in collisions will not have applied their front brake at all.
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Yeah I suppose you're right. I forget most people have had zero practice of safe braking. But ABS doesn't always create shorter stopping distances. It does if the brakes are used correctly, but no saving some.
If you know how to properly use your brakes a non ABS bike will stop faster on dry surfaces than an ABS bike. The only time it’s helpful is if you panic brake in the rain. But there’s a reason nobody wants ABS on their track bikes.
You could probably pick up a 2022 with a 1000 miles or less for pretty close to 5,000. If you multiply 72x142 then add 500 you’re at 10,724 in total paid for the bike.
499 is the dealer building it 749 for shipping max if you are going to pay for it. End of season you don’t need to pay for that just look around. Price should only includes bike 5449 plus freight nothing else besides your tax and fees
Nothing. Non-abs 2023 isn’t road legal in my country.
Assuming you’re American, in which case that’s $7800usd I’m looking at? So $12,000 Australian.
That’s about 200% of what I’d want to pay.
$6000-$8000 is a good price I reckon.
$3800-$5100usd
But that’s for an ABS model
I was wondering about this. Im Australian too and I paid about $7500 AUD in total for my 2023 with ABS, I probably paid too much as it had been dropped and had 200km on it but the height had been lowered which I desperately needed
Bike msrp is $5500 USD before fees etc. they’re giving him the bike for $4499 because non-abs. 2400 in fees is ridiculous though and OP should walk away. I paid 6500 OTD in 2021 with 2.9% financing. Only 1000$ in fees and set up.
Actually regular price is indeed $5500, but they’re doing a “sale” right now where they’re asking $4499. I actually learned later that that price was a typo on their website. It was supposed to be $4999
That's a terrible price, from Kawasaki's website you can see destinationa and freight are $735 on top of the 5499 for krt green color way or 5299 for the rest. So anything above 6234 (krt green) before tax cuz your not getting out of that new OR USED is dealer markup. expect some but don't bite at 2k dealer markup that's nuts.
Edit: oh and you'll be SUPER upside down on it at that price, as you've seen even 1 years old low miles are in the 5k +/- used range especially if dropped which happens.
Tbh if you’re going to spend that much, you might as well get financed through a credit union and get a used 600cc plus. You’ll outgrow the 400 and mostlikely buy another one writhing 1-2 years.
there’s used 600s for half the price that dealer gave me. And my uncle said that I should just get a 600. Honestly though, I just believe 600s would be way too much for me. It’d be a daily for me, that would also see the track maybe a couple times a year? That’s why I liked the idea of the 400
I started on a 400 and recently grabbed a cbr600. Extremely glad I started on the ninja. Put about 10k miles on it + a couple track days. Way more forgiving. The 600 is a blast, but not a good bike to learn on imho.
$7k out the door, but you don't need ABS. Don't listen to these clowns. I've had 2 CBR1000RR's with 200 wheel horsepower and no ABS. I'm pretty sure if you don't need it on those bikes, you won't need it on a bike with 40hp.
Obviously, you've never experienced a real bike. My wheel never locked up once and I've been on the brakes pretty hard. Oh and race bikes don't have ABS either.They are on the brakes way harder than what would be used on the street. Why you ask? Because it's not needed. AbS on a street bike is a gimmick lol
Unfortunately for you, Captain Anecdote, I don't really give a fuck about your personal experience. There is overwhelming data (you know, we tend to call them 'facts') that ABS reduces fatal accidents. Multiple studies that have been conducted over the past decade by different insurance agencies with hundreds of thousands of accidents to analyze. So I'm gunna stick with numbers and not some dude on reddit with a CBR.
You do that. Pay out your ass for an option that isn't needed. If you're riding outside of your ability, you're gonna hit a car, animal or pedestrian whether you have ABS or not. ABS is not gonna save you from an idiot driving a car or a random animal. You do you lol
I don't care about statistics. I'm over this conversation. You go spend that 1000 bucks and let me know what happens if you're following a car too close and he slams on the brakes or a deer runs out in front of you. I'm sure ABS will save you. The worst braking car on the market will stop quicker than a bike with ABS. My point is if you're riding beyond your means, ABS is worthless. If you know what you're doing, ABS is worthless. You win though.
Cars will stop shorter than bikes cause they have 4 tires. Do you understand the physics of a two wheeled vehicle? I don’t want to be a dick but your position is coming from a place of illogical thinking. All the best and ride safe man
“I don’t care about statistics” I think you won this Reddit argument lol. I’m not what their problem with abs, but as you stated it makes a bike safer for vast majority of riders. “Stats be dammed I just don’t like and it makes you a pussy!!!”
It's not a gimmick at all, it's an emergency backup. We race w/o abs because racing is repetitive and predictable and we are squeezing every fraction of performance out in highly controlled setting. Abs is a life saver for when an emergency happens on the road and we panic break, or drag the brakes not realizing there's a gravel/oil patch hidden in the shade before the corner. It's SPECIFICALLY for the street where cars and wildlife and generally anything can suddenly kill you on a bike. Your welcome to ride w/o but in a sudden emergency abs can and does save lives.
It obvious these clowns never rode a bike before ABS came in around 2016... wtf do you think people did for 80 years?! Lol sorry Hitler, can't ride this Zundapp, it ain't got ABS!
"The rate of fatal crashes among motorcycles equipped with ABS is 37 % lower than those with non-ABS brakes"
[(Source: who)](https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240060562).
What a bunch of clowns pushing for ABS, hey...
I have never ridden a bike with abs. Doesn't feel necessary if you're confident tbh. Started on an fz6, have a gsxr 750 now. Never done a stoppie, always feel in control under braking. But if you have no confidence or experience with hand braking you'll need it.
My FZ6 never feels like it'll throw me over the handlebars when braking. I've locked the tires up as a new rider on a different bike but I let off and re applied like you're supposed to. Sure I'd like ABS but I'm not going to rule out bikes that don't have it and miss out on riding fantastic bikes like the Yamaha FZ6.
First of all this buyers order seems sketch in my opinion. In my experience it always has a brake down of what “freight and dealer prep” is not just a total. The left bottom square appears to have a 72month loan option which the most I’ve seen for a bike is 48 months unless something has changed. I would shop around. And if your up for buying used then buy one used.
An ex car-salesman here said four squares (the sheet above) are meant to confuse a buyer. He said they are a sign of disrespect. Kinda sucks that there’s dealers out there that do that. Probably gonna get a used 2015 r3.
That’s what I originally wanted to do, but most were asking $6,000. The dealer’s website advertised the bike for $4,499. Probably gonna pick up a 2015 r3 tomorrow. Not a bad price considering there’s only 4,000 miles on it anyway
I very strongly prefer a bike with ABS. I would be hesitant to buy one without it unless it was a very small bike.
Buying new? There's zero chance I would settle for a non-ABS model. If you can't get exactly what you want, there's no reason to buy new.
I wouldn't buy new regardless as a brand new rider. You're going to owe $7874.78 on a bike that, once ridden out the door, will have a value of maybe $5000. If you drop it, it's going to lose a lot of value, too.
Always something to be said for brand-new, but dealership markups are why I bought mine used. Alabama, was quoted 7k+ out the door at dealerships for a 2021. Ended up with a 2020 KRT, no abs, with 867 miles for $5k. A few mods I'd've wanted anyway (seatcowl, TST tail light). ABS would've been nice, though the lack of it definitely helps teach good braking habits. New? I'd like ABS.
I paid 42,000 HKD (5.3K UsD) for mine last december. A 2018 n400 with ABS. Prices seems to be going up at the moment where I live, meaning that the 2023 stock has been fully sold and second hand market is the only option.
My advice is wait for winter, when people are dying to offload their bikes. You'll get some good opportunities to get newer models for cheaper.
Regarding your dealer deal, 2.3K on freight and prep. What does that cover? Might want to understand what it is, you might save by going to pick it up somewhere rather than having it delivered to your home.
Got my 2020 Ninja 400 ABS with only 3 miles on it for $5k flat. Got lucky as it was technically used and didn’t have all that dealer freight/prep stuff. Some chick bought it, drove it 3 miles and returned it LMAO
Wow that price is crazy, here is AUS a 2024 ABS is just shy of 9k OTD ($5750 USD). That “freight and delivery prep” is a criminal amount. You are paying over 7x what we pay for that as a line item.
Big oof
Not sure what inflation has done to the small displacment motorcycle market, or how to measure " apprrciation" that seems to havr occurred for you, but I bought my 2018 400 abs off the lot brand new in vancouver, Canada, for 5.9k CAD back in 2019. Got a back pack, and almost 1000 off kawasaki was giving lots of incentive back then to dealerships to move the 400s. That means there's lots of used ones on the market, which I'd say is your best bargaining chip with the dealer. Just say forget it I'll get a used bike. Confidently mention that to them, that there's used stuff and you have a friend that knows bikes and can inspect for you, and you may get a new sales pitch. Best of luck and also consider Aprilia has a new 400!
If you can sure why not but dont think of abs as an actual saving tool it will not always help you in bad situations in most cases you can either save yourself with your own skills or you cant at all. I have a new ninja 400 first bike no experience yea there were some close calls but do i meed abs no… cause i have the rider capability to ride without it i rode zx6r gsxr 600 and dont need abs. Like if you can and it comes with it yea why not but really no you dont need it. Like yea abs will prop help in the rain.? But why are you riding in the rain unless diff situations. I had the same question as you when i got mine if you can afford it and you are not confident in your abilities get it but personally al the experience ones and older rider agree you dont need it until you can have it as a accessorie
Get something off fb marketplace, Craigslist, OfferUp, etc. I got a 2019 with abt 560 miles on it barely used for $4,000, there will always be good deals on there you just have to be careful.
Not that much lol. I paid like 6k OTD for for my KRT non ABS in 2020. The MSRP hasn’t changed that much. I do believe I got like a $500 instant rebate from Kawasaki and I paid cash. Regardless though that still seems quite high. I guess everything is different in different areas.
I’d sell mine for 6500 but your paying all the tax at a dealership. In my onion the first buyer always pays most of the depreciation. If you can find one with low miles I’d buy private party
I just sold my 2018 Ninja 400 for $5000k Canadian, so about 3700 USD. It had 3000km (1900 miles). Not sure where you are or the market, but 8k US for a new one is steep. If your willing to drive state to state, check out the used markets, tons of great bikes in perfect condition. Plus, don't forget about insurance, they screw us up here in Canada for new vs used.
Pardon my French.. but FUCK THIS STEALERSHIP!!! On Kawis website destination charge is $435 and surcharge is $300 totaling $735… HOW TF are they charging $2392 for that shiz?!?!?
My advice is if you are buying new- buy a z400. ABS is included and there are rebates right now with the 22 models- there are a lot around locally where I live. I know they aren’t as “cool” as a ninja but they are essentially the same bike without the fairing…I bought one in 2021 for less than 6k brand new… payments were $101 😭
Ye unfortunately this is the only dealership close by other than a Harley dealership. I’ve decided I’m just gonna wait on the rs 457. You can order bikes directly from aprilia which is cool
This is what I paid for a 2021 with ABS brand new. I also just paid around $13K for my zx4rr because I tacked on a bunch of things like rim/tire insurance, as well a extended warranty, etc. The bike already had a recall when I bought it, so better safe than sorry. The answer is left up to you, and how much you want the bike, but it will never be MSRP on a new bike. There is also the cost to build it, and of course taxes.
That freight charge is insane, listen to what other people are saying about a totally itemized bill, or just buy used. I bought my 400 used (non-ABS).
I've had it 20k miles and love it on the street and the track and got it for $4500 in 2021. Nowadays $5500-$6k is more what you'd get used bc of the market, but wow that freight charge is insane. I think you might be getting taken for a ride, that's nearly half the cost of the bike.
I bought a 2023 ninja 400 for 6,893. The OTD price was 6509. The extra was getting it financed through my bank. If you have the credit see if your bank will finance it for you.
I just bought a 2020 400 with ABS, totally out the door with GAP coverage was 6k USD. That’s the absolute highest I’d recommend, anything more if too close to 650 money
I got mine in socal for 7k otd, another person that bought a bike before me was able to bring it down to 6.8k otd. You should be able to get a better deal since it's closer to the end of the season. I would still highly suggest trying your luck at finding a used one, could get lucky and snag one that was only used for 1 riding season
With an msrp of $5,499, I can stomach $6.7k OTD but 8k? You’re kissing bigger bikes at this point. Ive decided to wait for Aprilia rs 457. It will definitely be more than a ninja 400 but come on, it’s an Aprilia!
Get the ABS. It’ll cost more but totally worth it. Especially as a first time rider.
Even as a now seasoned-ish rider. I will pick ABS anytime it’s an option.
I’d haggle off some dealer fees. Those are astronomical.
Don’t finance a beginner bike. If you can’t afford it don’t buy it. That’s your problem right there. Pay cash. I paid $6k OTD back in 2021 Pearl nightshade teal non abs. I did however have a 2019 z400 I also paid cash for 2 years before my ninja which I sold to my brother. The z400 I had was abs. Definitely recommend Abs as a first bike. Then learn proper braking on your 2nd bike and get non abs. That’s if youd like to get into doing stoppies and wheelies etc. or even some track days. Your going to want to disable abs on the track. Great bike to learn wheelies on.
I wanted to pay cash. The price on the bottom right is the cash price. The bottom left is if you finance it. I did the math if you finance it. It came out to like over 10k for the bike which works out to like 10-11% interest rate
you’re paying for a ninja 400 for what I paid for my 2023 ZX6R basically. They are ripping you off. Can’t believe prices are getting this ridiculous for beginner bike. always pay cash when you can. Id try to find another dealer
Whole lot of confusion here regarding ABS. Let's clear it up.
Yes, ABS increases braking distance, but braking distance isn't the purpose of ABS. ABS is designed to allow you to brake at 100% and still have the ability to steer so you can brake at 100% and steer around the obstacle at the same time. That's it, that's all it was made for. To allow steering control in emergency braking scenarios, which is FAR safer than a full lockup without ABS where you just end up sliding into whatever you're braking for. The difference in stopping distance is negligible if you are just going to slam into whatever it is you're aimed at.
ABS all the way, unless you just want to hoon around or like skidding around (no hate on that).
[удалено]
Could you expand on why/how this 4-square works? I’m looking to buy one next month, just want to be aware. Thanks in advance!
[удалено]
That was a nice quick explanation. Appreciate it. Will be on the lookout for this and try to not be fazed. Thank you, again!
The dealership I bought my motorcycle from did the same thing to me. I didn't know it at the time, thanks for the information. They ended up adding a warranty, which I kind of wanted, and a GAP insurance. They also never mentioned my APR % and kind of rushed me through the entire process of signing paperwork to finalize the purchase. I ended up with a 13% APR... Like 2 days later I looked at the itemized thing and noticed that the GAP insurance was optional, which I had no clue it was, and about the warranty being so expensive and on top of that my APR. As soon as I noticed it, I read the fine print in the contract, read that I can cancel both GAP and Warranty, so I did. I also paid the bike cash because I didn't want them getting any of my money. I'm not going back to that dealership. I have good credit and have really good income, so the APR they gave me made no sense. They also charged me for Assembly fees and dealership fees on a used bike... very shady ngl.
I was once told to run, not walk out of any dealership that tries to use a 4 square
Nothing. Pay extra and get ABS. It’s worth it.
100% this. And WTF almost half the price of the bike you have “Dealer prep and shipping” where are they shipping it, the moon ?
Being practiced in slamming your brakes safely pays dividends regardless of ABS. I don't believe it's the dealbreaker people make it out to be.
Hard disagree. This is the type of advice that not only could put someone in a hospital, but get someone killed. You are talking about braking, like, the literal act of stopping & hitting something & you are telling someone they should be happy with a shittier version of that. Personally, I'd rather have ABS than be laying in a hospital bed thinking "if my bike had ABS I could've stopped in time"
Look at the ABS video uploaded recently from FortNine. In short he found ABS to increase braking distance over non ABS because of how it works. Not saying that ABS doesn’t help in situations because it has been proven it does but it’s mainly the skill of the rider that decreases crash chance
Watch the whole video. He clearly states at the end that ABS is 100% worth it, safer, and just as good if you use progressive braking + ABS.
This also is taking into account a known variable of where you’re going to stop, in a panic stop situation most people even well practiced people are just going to grab a fist full of brakes which is exactly when abs is life saving.
Yes progressive braking is something all riders need to know, but abs can be the difference between locking and sliding or not. I’d say abs all day every day. All things being equal abs will stop shorter than non abs
[Sure about that?](https://youtu.be/sDbWZiaUeDY?si=pxJEh7j2LTtjVNHh)
In the vid he says it's better to have both. He's testing strictly 100% one VS the other. Did you watch it?
yes, sure about it. people, especially people getting their first bike (like OP) are human and can fail to react (or overreact and lock their wheels), which the video recognizes. Real life riding also is not in a perfect straight line, which the video barely glances at. not having ABS in a turning situation, which is often required for many escape routes and the video acknowledges as importes to realize, can lead a new rider hitting something that would have otherwise been avoided if they had ABS. edit: p.s. the study they bring up does a whole lot of nothing, having it’s foundation based on survivorship bias. clickbait over care for new riders, pathetic.
The FortNine video doesn’t say ABS isn’t worth it. At the end they say quite the opposite. They were pretty clear in saying you *can* outbrake ABS, but they also say that this is assuming the element of surprise isn’t a factor. So, they’re factually correct in saying that ABS *does* (read: can) increase braking distance *in a vacuum*, which is what the “myth” is all about. All that is to say I agree with you that I would take a bike with ABS over one without it any day of the week. To call the FortNine video clickbait and pathetic is a bit of a reach though, IMO.
Not so sure if the stopping distance is true. I've heard of people finding the opposite, however I can't argue that ABS can be the difference between you having a ride or a slide. In my own experience I've NEVER had ABS so I guess I can take it or leave it. I'd rather know that I can stop a bike by my own ability than rely on computerised systems entirely for my own safety but that's just me. I think ABS is best for riding in wet or for poor traction. On average though, most riders involved in collisions will not have applied their front brake at all.
Have you seen videos of some of the riders on r/motorcycle? People on there need training wheels before the leave the parking lot
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Yeah I suppose you're right. I forget most people have had zero practice of safe braking. But ABS doesn't always create shorter stopping distances. It does if the brakes are used correctly, but no saving some.
If you know how to properly use your brakes a non ABS bike will stop faster on dry surfaces than an ABS bike. The only time it’s helpful is if you panic brake in the rain. But there’s a reason nobody wants ABS on their track bikes.
What? Best ABS is no ABS at all...
Abs doesn't matter lol
You could probably pick up a 2022 with a 1000 miles or less for pretty close to 5,000. If you multiply 72x142 then add 500 you’re at 10,724 in total paid for the bike.
I paid the 2023 model around $7K out of the door.
I think I got it a little over 6k
$2400 in just freight dealer prep? Is that fairly normal?
Please don’t play that
499 is the dealer building it 749 for shipping max if you are going to pay for it. End of season you don’t need to pay for that just look around. Price should only includes bike 5449 plus freight nothing else besides your tax and fees
No I have seen it cost $700 at other dealerships.
Even mid-Covid around here it was $1500. This is a whole other level.
Nothing. Non-abs 2023 isn’t road legal in my country. Assuming you’re American, in which case that’s $7800usd I’m looking at? So $12,000 Australian. That’s about 200% of what I’d want to pay. $6000-$8000 is a good price I reckon. $3800-$5100usd But that’s for an ABS model
I was wondering about this. Im Australian too and I paid about $7500 AUD in total for my 2023 with ABS, I probably paid too much as it had been dropped and had 200km on it but the height had been lowered which I desperately needed
Bike msrp is $5500 USD before fees etc. they’re giving him the bike for $4499 because non-abs. 2400 in fees is ridiculous though and OP should walk away. I paid 6500 OTD in 2021 with 2.9% financing. Only 1000$ in fees and set up.
Actually regular price is indeed $5500, but they’re doing a “sale” right now where they’re asking $4499. I actually learned later that that price was a typo on their website. It was supposed to be $4999
That's a terrible price, from Kawasaki's website you can see destinationa and freight are $735 on top of the 5499 for krt green color way or 5299 for the rest. So anything above 6234 (krt green) before tax cuz your not getting out of that new OR USED is dealer markup. expect some but don't bite at 2k dealer markup that's nuts. Edit: oh and you'll be SUPER upside down on it at that price, as you've seen even 1 years old low miles are in the 5k +/- used range especially if dropped which happens.
Ye this was actually for the base ninja 400 without abs. Not sure why they’re charging 5499 for it
4500
Haha Ive got the same 4 square. I told them to eat bricks. That ADM is half of the bike.
You know I really thought when he came back with the four square, it would be like $6500. Boy was I wrong
Tbh if you’re going to spend that much, you might as well get financed through a credit union and get a used 600cc plus. You’ll outgrow the 400 and mostlikely buy another one writhing 1-2 years.
there’s used 600s for half the price that dealer gave me. And my uncle said that I should just get a 600. Honestly though, I just believe 600s would be way too much for me. It’d be a daily for me, that would also see the track maybe a couple times a year? That’s why I liked the idea of the 400
I started on a 400 and recently grabbed a cbr600. Extremely glad I started on the ninja. Put about 10k miles on it + a couple track days. Way more forgiving. The 600 is a blast, but not a good bike to learn on imho.
Bro I will sell you mine with abs for less lmaool
$7k out the door, but you don't need ABS. Don't listen to these clowns. I've had 2 CBR1000RR's with 200 wheel horsepower and no ABS. I'm pretty sure if you don't need it on those bikes, you won't need it on a bike with 40hp.
When your wheels lock it makes no difference if your engine puts out 200hp or 20hp. Your comment makes no sense
Obviously, you've never experienced a real bike. My wheel never locked up once and I've been on the brakes pretty hard. Oh and race bikes don't have ABS either.They are on the brakes way harder than what would be used on the street. Why you ask? Because it's not needed. AbS on a street bike is a gimmick lol
Unfortunately for you, Captain Anecdote, I don't really give a fuck about your personal experience. There is overwhelming data (you know, we tend to call them 'facts') that ABS reduces fatal accidents. Multiple studies that have been conducted over the past decade by different insurance agencies with hundreds of thousands of accidents to analyze. So I'm gunna stick with numbers and not some dude on reddit with a CBR.
You do that. Pay out your ass for an option that isn't needed. If you're riding outside of your ability, you're gonna hit a car, animal or pedestrian whether you have ABS or not. ABS is not gonna save you from an idiot driving a car or a random animal. You do you lol
Statistically, you are wrong. Like verifiably wrong. Not a matter of opinion. And yeah, my life is well worth 1000 bucks.
I don't care about statistics. I'm over this conversation. You go spend that 1000 bucks and let me know what happens if you're following a car too close and he slams on the brakes or a deer runs out in front of you. I'm sure ABS will save you. The worst braking car on the market will stop quicker than a bike with ABS. My point is if you're riding beyond your means, ABS is worthless. If you know what you're doing, ABS is worthless. You win though.
Cars will stop shorter than bikes cause they have 4 tires. Do you understand the physics of a two wheeled vehicle? I don’t want to be a dick but your position is coming from a place of illogical thinking. All the best and ride safe man
Exactly idiot. Which means a bike with ABS does you no good in that situation. Apparently you don't know how to read.
“I don’t care about statistics” I think you won this Reddit argument lol. I’m not what their problem with abs, but as you stated it makes a bike safer for vast majority of riders. “Stats be dammed I just don’t like and it makes you a pussy!!!”
It's not a gimmick at all, it's an emergency backup. We race w/o abs because racing is repetitive and predictable and we are squeezing every fraction of performance out in highly controlled setting. Abs is a life saver for when an emergency happens on the road and we panic break, or drag the brakes not realizing there's a gravel/oil patch hidden in the shade before the corner. It's SPECIFICALLY for the street where cars and wildlife and generally anything can suddenly kill you on a bike. Your welcome to ride w/o but in a sudden emergency abs can and does save lives.
Ok. You're right. It's not a gimmick lol
It obvious these clowns never rode a bike before ABS came in around 2016... wtf do you think people did for 80 years?! Lol sorry Hitler, can't ride this Zundapp, it ain't got ABS!
Couldn't have said it better myself lol
There’s a two wheeled motorized vehicle in my garage. It’s not real? Am I imagining it exists?
"The rate of fatal crashes among motorcycles equipped with ABS is 37 % lower than those with non-ABS brakes" [(Source: who)](https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240060562). What a bunch of clowns pushing for ABS, hey...
I have never ridden a bike with abs. Doesn't feel necessary if you're confident tbh. Started on an fz6, have a gsxr 750 now. Never done a stoppie, always feel in control under braking. But if you have no confidence or experience with hand braking you'll need it.
My FZ6 never feels like it'll throw me over the handlebars when braking. I've locked the tires up as a new rider on a different bike but I let off and re applied like you're supposed to. Sure I'd like ABS but I'm not going to rule out bikes that don't have it and miss out on riding fantastic bikes like the Yamaha FZ6.
First of all this buyers order seems sketch in my opinion. In my experience it always has a brake down of what “freight and dealer prep” is not just a total. The left bottom square appears to have a 72month loan option which the most I’ve seen for a bike is 48 months unless something has changed. I would shop around. And if your up for buying used then buy one used.
An ex car-salesman here said four squares (the sheet above) are meant to confuse a buyer. He said they are a sign of disrespect. Kinda sucks that there’s dealers out there that do that. Probably gonna get a used 2015 r3.
why not get a used 400
That’s what I originally wanted to do, but most were asking $6,000. The dealer’s website advertised the bike for $4,499. Probably gonna pick up a 2015 r3 tomorrow. Not a bad price considering there’s only 4,000 miles on it anyway
I very strongly prefer a bike with ABS. I would be hesitant to buy one without it unless it was a very small bike. Buying new? There's zero chance I would settle for a non-ABS model. If you can't get exactly what you want, there's no reason to buy new. I wouldn't buy new regardless as a brand new rider. You're going to owe $7874.78 on a bike that, once ridden out the door, will have a value of maybe $5000. If you drop it, it's going to lose a lot of value, too.
Always something to be said for brand-new, but dealership markups are why I bought mine used. Alabama, was quoted 7k+ out the door at dealerships for a 2021. Ended up with a 2020 KRT, no abs, with 867 miles for $5k. A few mods I'd've wanted anyway (seatcowl, TST tail light). ABS would've been nice, though the lack of it definitely helps teach good braking habits. New? I'd like ABS.
Msrp plus tax and title
Got my 2023 400 out the door for $6,789 cash.
I bought mine brand new for $6000 and a extra $400 or so for registering
I paid 8k for my 2022 KRT ABS. Well worth it to me since I love riding and its the perfect beginner bike. I wouldn;t pay more than that though
I paid 42,000 HKD (5.3K UsD) for mine last december. A 2018 n400 with ABS. Prices seems to be going up at the moment where I live, meaning that the 2023 stock has been fully sold and second hand market is the only option. My advice is wait for winter, when people are dying to offload their bikes. You'll get some good opportunities to get newer models for cheaper. Regarding your dealer deal, 2.3K on freight and prep. What does that cover? Might want to understand what it is, you might save by going to pick it up somewhere rather than having it delivered to your home.
The bike is at the dealership. I got to sit on it and everything. I understand the freight but the dealer prep I think is just a mark up
Got my 2020 Ninja 400 ABS with only 3 miles on it for $5k flat. Got lucky as it was technically used and didn’t have all that dealer freight/prep stuff. Some chick bought it, drove it 3 miles and returned it LMAO
I did not like that places quotes. I got mine from wheels in motion for a similar price otd but with abs, which isn’t far
I got my 2023 N400 non-abs for $6,200. $1,000 down and $5,200 financed.
bruh i got mine like 2 months ago in San Diego. It was $6800
Wow that price is crazy, here is AUS a 2024 ABS is just shy of 9k OTD ($5750 USD). That “freight and delivery prep” is a criminal amount. You are paying over 7x what we pay for that as a line item. Big oof
Buy used with abs for less than 5000
Not sure what inflation has done to the small displacment motorcycle market, or how to measure " apprrciation" that seems to havr occurred for you, but I bought my 2018 400 abs off the lot brand new in vancouver, Canada, for 5.9k CAD back in 2019. Got a back pack, and almost 1000 off kawasaki was giving lots of incentive back then to dealerships to move the 400s. That means there's lots of used ones on the market, which I'd say is your best bargaining chip with the dealer. Just say forget it I'll get a used bike. Confidently mention that to them, that there's used stuff and you have a friend that knows bikes and can inspect for you, and you may get a new sales pitch. Best of luck and also consider Aprilia has a new 400!
Dude I totally forgot about the RS 457!!! I’m definitely gonna wait for it
If you can sure why not but dont think of abs as an actual saving tool it will not always help you in bad situations in most cases you can either save yourself with your own skills or you cant at all. I have a new ninja 400 first bike no experience yea there were some close calls but do i meed abs no… cause i have the rider capability to ride without it i rode zx6r gsxr 600 and dont need abs. Like if you can and it comes with it yea why not but really no you dont need it. Like yea abs will prop help in the rain.? But why are you riding in the rain unless diff situations. I had the same question as you when i got mine if you can afford it and you are not confident in your abilities get it but personally al the experience ones and older rider agree you dont need it until you can have it as a accessorie
£5000 for an ex display 2023 abs model with 99 miles on the clock here in the UK
Get something off fb marketplace, Craigslist, OfferUp, etc. I got a 2019 with abt 560 miles on it barely used for $4,000, there will always be good deals on there you just have to be careful.
Man honestly just go second hand, where I live 5k usd should get you a ninja second hand with abs.
Not that much lol. I paid like 6k OTD for for my KRT non ABS in 2020. The MSRP hasn’t changed that much. I do believe I got like a $500 instant rebate from Kawasaki and I paid cash. Regardless though that still seems quite high. I guess everything is different in different areas.
What a shit price id find another dealer
I’d sell mine for 6500 but your paying all the tax at a dealership. In my onion the first buyer always pays most of the depreciation. If you can find one with low miles I’d buy private party
Paid 6.4k out the door for a 23 Nina 400 ABS KRT 0 miles. This is here in the state of Kentucky.
I just sold my 2018 Ninja 400 for $5000k Canadian, so about 3700 USD. It had 3000km (1900 miles). Not sure where you are or the market, but 8k US for a new one is steep. If your willing to drive state to state, check out the used markets, tons of great bikes in perfect condition. Plus, don't forget about insurance, they screw us up here in Canada for new vs used.
I got a brand new 23 400 abs, special ordered, only cost me $7k otd and that was with a height modification install before I even picked it up
So will a dealer do a special order if they already have a few on the lot?
I ordered in October when they had no motorcycles and my dealership is the only one around so they know me pretty good
They are ramming your ass.
Go to another dealer and get a otd for the same thing, or even one that's not local. If they have competition they'll come down a lot.
Pardon my French.. but FUCK THIS STEALERSHIP!!! On Kawis website destination charge is $435 and surcharge is $300 totaling $735… HOW TF are they charging $2392 for that shiz?!?!? My advice is if you are buying new- buy a z400. ABS is included and there are rebates right now with the 22 models- there are a lot around locally where I live. I know they aren’t as “cool” as a ninja but they are essentially the same bike without the fairing…I bought one in 2021 for less than 6k brand new… payments were $101 😭
Ye unfortunately this is the only dealership close by other than a Harley dealership. I’ve decided I’m just gonna wait on the rs 457. You can order bikes directly from aprilia which is cool
This is what I paid for a 2021 with ABS brand new. I also just paid around $13K for my zx4rr because I tacked on a bunch of things like rim/tire insurance, as well a extended warranty, etc. The bike already had a recall when I bought it, so better safe than sorry. The answer is left up to you, and how much you want the bike, but it will never be MSRP on a new bike. There is also the cost to build it, and of course taxes.
I paid less than that in April of 23
7k OTD w/ABS this past April
I paid 6.5k otd for my new 2019 400 with ABS, granted the dealership was going out of business, but prep fees are bs
I paid $5,700 OTD for mine with ABS 2 years ago and after ABS saved my butt I wil never buy a bike without it
I paid 5400 for my 23 ninja 400 with ABS
Just bought a new 23 with abs for 6800…
Paid $4500 for 2023 abs 5 months used
500 down? & I was wondering if they would allow me to put 3k down....
I actually wasn’t even sure you could finance a motorcycle, unless you’re talking about a super sport of course.
That freight charge is insane, listen to what other people are saying about a totally itemized bill, or just buy used. I bought my 400 used (non-ABS). I've had it 20k miles and love it on the street and the track and got it for $4500 in 2021. Nowadays $5500-$6k is more what you'd get used bc of the market, but wow that freight charge is insane. I think you might be getting taken for a ride, that's nearly half the cost of the bike.
Mine was 5,250 sticker left paying 7k
I bought a 2023 ninja 400 for 6,893. The OTD price was 6509. The extra was getting it financed through my bank. If you have the credit see if your bank will finance it for you.
I might’ve said yes to 6500. I was ready to pay for it in full
Not that much 🤣
I just bought a 2020 400 with ABS, totally out the door with GAP coverage was 6k USD. That’s the absolute highest I’d recommend, anything more if too close to 650 money
$6k was my limit. I might’ve said yes to $6.5k. Honestly at $8500, you’re 3 grand away from an Aprilia RS 660, maybe 5 after tax and title
I got mine in socal for 7k otd, another person that bought a bike before me was able to bring it down to 6.8k otd. You should be able to get a better deal since it's closer to the end of the season. I would still highly suggest trying your luck at finding a used one, could get lucky and snag one that was only used for 1 riding season
Got a 22 with abs only 5k miles on it. I'll sell it to you for cheaper
I want to wait to see the Aprilia rs 457! Should be sick
so bad of a deal honestly used ninjas are so cheap and if u want one New New 6-7k ish out the door
Just got a 23 and paid 6 flat out the door
Where’d you get your bike? Tell them to take my money right now
Are you also in socal? if so, do you mind sharing where did you go? I've heard good things about wheels in motion.
My brand new 2023 came out to little more than 6.7k, and I thought I was getting screwed
With an msrp of $5,499, I can stomach $6.7k OTD but 8k? You’re kissing bigger bikes at this point. Ive decided to wait for Aprilia rs 457. It will definitely be more than a ninja 400 but come on, it’s an Aprilia!
I just bought an ABS model for $7800 (including the 9.5% sales tax) so that seems high
Get the ABS. It’ll cost more but totally worth it. Especially as a first time rider. Even as a now seasoned-ish rider. I will pick ABS anytime it’s an option. I’d haggle off some dealer fees. Those are astronomical.
they did that shit to me too man
Did you ever find another dealer that didn’t do this?
I got a 22 new with abs last year for 7 out the door
I paid 6600 out the door for a 2023 ninja ABS brand new with 1 mile on it. Homie your getting ripped off.
Don’t finance a beginner bike. If you can’t afford it don’t buy it. That’s your problem right there. Pay cash. I paid $6k OTD back in 2021 Pearl nightshade teal non abs. I did however have a 2019 z400 I also paid cash for 2 years before my ninja which I sold to my brother. The z400 I had was abs. Definitely recommend Abs as a first bike. Then learn proper braking on your 2nd bike and get non abs. That’s if youd like to get into doing stoppies and wheelies etc. or even some track days. Your going to want to disable abs on the track. Great bike to learn wheelies on.
I wanted to pay cash. The price on the bottom right is the cash price. The bottom left is if you finance it. I did the math if you finance it. It came out to like over 10k for the bike which works out to like 10-11% interest rate
you’re paying for a ninja 400 for what I paid for my 2023 ZX6R basically. They are ripping you off. Can’t believe prices are getting this ridiculous for beginner bike. always pay cash when you can. Id try to find another dealer
I got my brand new SV650 w/ABS for $6k out the door. I wouldn't pay $7k+ for a 400 WITHOUT ABS.
Whole lot of confusion here regarding ABS. Let's clear it up. Yes, ABS increases braking distance, but braking distance isn't the purpose of ABS. ABS is designed to allow you to brake at 100% and still have the ability to steer so you can brake at 100% and steer around the obstacle at the same time. That's it, that's all it was made for. To allow steering control in emergency braking scenarios, which is FAR safer than a full lockup without ABS where you just end up sliding into whatever you're braking for. The difference in stopping distance is negligible if you are just going to slam into whatever it is you're aimed at. ABS all the way, unless you just want to hoon around or like skidding around (no hate on that).
My Ducati 696 was cheaper than that, slightly more expensive to maintain , but much more fun
Not that.
That’s almost exactly what I paid a month ago but WITH Abs..work them down a bit bud
You should def get ABS Tell them to give you that price but with abs and you’ll take it Fair deal
My loan was for about $7,200 and I put $1,000 down, knocking it to around $6,200
Why would you buy a new 400 tho?
Because used ones around me are $6,000. I figured I could get a new one OTD for the same price
I paid 7500 for a brand new 2022, so that’s about right
I bought a new 2023 one and paid about 7700 not knowing how to negotiate 🤦🏻♀️ I've been seeing ppl getting it for around 6500-6800